Kohler Command Not Starting - Fuel Pump Replacement
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- My John Deere tractor has been increasing difficult to start. Once running it runs without issue. I ignored the problem and now it will not start. I assumed it was the carburetor, but upon inspection there is no issue with the carburetor. It seems like the carburetor is starving for fuel.
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00:00 Introduction
01:12 The Issue
02:09 Fuel Flow
03:13 Fuel Pump Removal
04:37 Prepping the Surface
08:36 Stens Pump Install
19:11 Pump Test
19:49 We Do It Right Because We Do It Twice
21:19 Pump Test #2
22:30 Carburetor Install
24:25 First Start
25:40 Putting it to the Test
27:43 Conclusion
Kohler 12 393 03, 12 393 03-S, 12 559 01-S, 12 559 02, 12 559 02-S
Kohler CH11-CH15 and CV11-CV16
Kohler Command
As always, James, nice work! And persisting with the short top fuel hose!
The extra gasket and flange is likely that the pump is used on multiple engines. It could also be a spacer that changes the position of the pump lever relative to the cam lobe to produce a different stroke length, which would result in different fuel flow levels.
I agree. My initial thoughts were to use it on a newer engine and remove it for an engine with a worn lobe.
That would be my guess as well.
Really??
Thank you for the video! I had this issue on a Kohler Command Pro 23, diagnosed the issue per your guidance then replaced the fuel pump and it's resolved. Much appreciated!
Great repair. Nice looking machine for 25 years old. Keep the vids coming.
Another great video. I would have never thought of removing the spacer.
The meat plate and gasket is for a machined surface mounting. The one that was on the pump is for a cast mounting as you found out. I had to replace my pump on LT150. The fuel filter was empty so took line off at pump and gas started running out right away. I an OEM pump and it had the instructions in it. It may have cost more but it saved a lot of time too. Glad to hear yours running again. Very good video.
Followed this video yesterday. Very helpful. A couple of small process changes I made helped a bunch. In removing the fuel pump I took the bolts out before removing the small vertical portion of gas line and during re-attachment put the same line on before bolting to the engine. Made it much easier to work with. In determining what parts to use for the gasket, I just looked at how the old one attached.
Yes! No reason to remove hose first. In fact, to remove plate and gasket you can simply release clamps and then rotate the pump around the hose. MUCH easier than what he did.
This is a great video James. Thank you for this as I've fought with my L110 that has the 17.5 HP engine on it and I've replaced the carb and the fuel pump on mine and was about to tear into the fuel tank to diagnose further problems but I think you just solved my problem as I did what you did with the pump at first but I over looked that.
THANK YOU AGAIN SIR!!
did it work when you took out the spacer?
I have a 15.5 HP Kohler Command that is 20+ years old on my machine too. Used your head gasket video (my FIRST JC video ever btw) to do that job. Yours has the same hydraulic lifter tick that mine does and I have replacement lifters ready to go in this winter as mine ticked quite loud for about 20 min the first time I ran it back in the spring. Same ones used in a Chevy engine as I understand it and pretty inexpensive too. Anyway, mine is gravity fed so I don't have a fuel pump, but a JC video will not go unwatched no matter. Glad you got your quasi leaf machine running again. Mowed for the last time here in NC on black Friday so my lifter job will be under way after the holidays. Keep em coming JC!
I have a 19hp craftsman gold engine... about 3 years old. Just had to replace the camshaft because the decompression trigger broke... from what I understand a very common problem with these overhead valve engines. So my pro tip of the day is... after starting the engine dont let it idle ... run it at half throttle or more whenever possible to avoid beating up the decompression trigger... nice video... thank you for your time...
Just noticed the chapter title round the 20 minute mark. "We do it right because we do it twice." It suddenly feels like I'm watching a Mustie1 video....
Good troubleshooting tips. Interesting process to fix. Thanks.
As you said the words, I'll put it on and if the oil leaks I'll know it's wrong. I was thinking if that changes the position of that actuator you won't get gas. Or even worse you do but not enough. Then you go crazy looking for something else. Lots of times you get stuff for different models. Just going back. There was no plate so.... Great job have binged watched almost every episode. I'm in South Fla. Lots of generators here. Just finished my first carb. rebuild. Wen 5500. Starts first pull. THANK YOU. Keep up with videos. Very Helpful!
Kinda curious to see inside the faulty pump
ua-cam.com/video/GFAYH-hlZUs/v-deo.html
So am I. I expected him to open it, explain how it works and check it. Missed opportunity. Only few video's show a fuel pump and they are all impulse.
Thank you Sir for your time and effort on this repair, it helped!
"Dad" mower, "dad" shoes, "dad" hobbies, "dad" work ethic. You are 100% dad and we love you for it.
Machine is running very well nice diagnostics and repair replacing the fuel pump and looks like alot of maple leaves ya got there @James Condon
Have same mower, easy to convert to electric fuel pump with a block off plate. Love the mower overall, a real workhorse
Very well done! I probably would have converted it to an impulse style pump but it’s nice to keep things in their original state when you can. A simple Instruction sheet would be nice, especially with a universal item that can be used on different engines!
great/productive/clear video
You definitely have the magical touch. And of course another great video.
Whoa! Big help! Thank you so!
I've had a few of those Commands over the years. I have always converted them to Briggs style impulse pumps when the mechanical pump inevitably fails. I gut the mechanical pump, plug the lower port, add barb fitting to the top port, connect that the impulse port on the pump. Fuel lines are self explanatory. Screw with tek-screws to the fan shroud. Tada! I've not had to replace an impulse pump and the conversion is (was) cheaper than replacing the mechanical pump. Just another bit of knowledge for the back brain!
That is the way to go on these. I was surprised the mechanical pump was still available. Had assume I would be converting to a pulse pump.
I have a couple of those water cooled kawasaki 15 hp engines with the unique fuel pump and water pump, they run fine still,but parts getting hard to find
Great idea. I'd love to see a video of this process. Do you know of any to reference?
@@kyleculbertson5608 I don't know of any, but I'm sure they exist. I cannot be the only person who did this. @James Condon Video Idea!
Not always the fuel pump when the engine is starving for fuel. On the John Deere's especially, always check the air vent hole in the fuel cap. This hole will eventually plug up over time with dust and not allow the fuel pump to pull fuel from the tank. It starts out gradually like your problem and gets worse over time until it just won't run. Very much enjoy all your videos.
had the exact same issue on my honda engine. just like James i assumed it to be fuel pump issue but before buying a new one i watched an obscure UA-cam video which mentioned about checking fuel cap for plugged air vent before assuming that the fuel pump is faulty.
took out the fuel cap (honda engine has air vent built in to their fuel cap) and dipped it inside diesel fuel overnight. shaked it down to remove any dust remaining before taking it out of diesel fuel. engine started like a new one. I'm so glad i came across that advice about clogged air vent before buying an expensive fuel pump.
That’s usually if it runs for 15 minutes then die
Great job James 👏 looking forward to seeing you and ken's next live stream 👍
Excellent video and diagnosis. If I may make a suggestion, stuff a small clean rag or paper towel in to opening while using the Roloc bristle disc to prevent old gasket material from entering the crankcase.
Nice video 👍
This is something new for me.
Thanks a lot for the explanation.
Great video, that Kohler engine is one of the best they ever made, great work James!
The command is a great engine.
Perfect, just the video I needed to see. You said everything I needed to here. Thank you
Thank you for your video.
Awesome job
I love that rubber wheel to clean gasket material. Gotta get one of those.
Great video and very well laid out and explained /cheers ScrapBongo
I just went through this! 3 pumps later i finally bought the oem pump and it works great! Save money and time by buying factory pump.
Or a cheap electronic in-line and have instantaneous starting....
Just went through the same process with my neighbors. Third time, we bought and installed an OEM pump.
They don't make the OEM pumps anymore, everyone just re-boxes the Chinese made universal ones.
Some mechanical fuel pumps will leak fuel into the crankcase when they fail so always check the oil level. Parts that have green paint are twice the price. :-)
“close enough”. My favourite bit!
You have great videos thanks for teaching us and saving us money.🙏🏻
Ty buddy 😄
Good work sir. Thoroughly enjoyed 👏🏻👍🏻🔧
Nice video James, those Kohler Commands are hard to kill.
perfect job thank u
Enjoyed the video. The diaphragm probably worn out in the oem pump. I have 2008 JD X540 with the 14 bushel bagger. It picks up the leaves nicely. JD makes great tractors.
Thanks
Thanks
Nice fix James: You can put a blank off plate on the pump outlet and drill a 1/4" hole in it for a brass hose fitting and then run a Kawasaki or Briggs pulse pump instead of the Kohler one. I have changed some and Taryl has a video on changing it to a pulse pump. Thanks for great video's.
Ive seen the taryl video,,have done that install myself.on Briggs,use a valve cover that has the hole or create one,others the fitting ddition has worked for me
I had a cam driven fuel pump on an old car years ago. Until it gets some fuel in there, they don't feel like they are working much. We had this happen to a Kohler years ago, and my innovative father bought a cheap electric pump at the auto parts store (intended for a go cart). That saw the tractor through the rest of its useful life.
A lot involved than a B&S fuel pump. Good job.
Nice job
I encountered the exact same thing with a spacer plate on my 1993 Ford Sierra Sapphire. It's an "either/or" arrangement that allows for multiple applications for a single pump kit, but in the case of the Sierra, to allow for one pump kit to replace two different OEM fitments.
The critical factor is that you should turn the engine to bring the cam lobe to the point where it fully deflects the pump lever arm, then install the pump and push it manually against the block face. If the pump flange will not sit against the block flange under hand pressure, then you need to install the spacer - Otherwise, omit the spacer.
Remember though, this must be done with the cam lobe at the point of maximum lift.
Also lets you know if you have wrong part if it won't go against block with the spacer.
@@ratbag359 That is a very good point! One thing that is for certain, if the engine was turned over, and the pump was the wrong one in that respect, it would be destroyed.
Darren Mustie of Mustie 1 makes good tractor videos.... Nice job James, now do a forensic autopsy on the old pump...
Hello James From Mark In Ky. I have a John Deere 165 hydro with the FB460V Kawasaki engine in which I recently had a fuel delivery issue.
I replaced the fuel filter, fuel pump and pulse hose in which normally would probably fix a delivery issue. Unfortunately I was having the same exact issue as before in which I removed the screw on the fuel bowl to drain out any possible impurities which still did not work.
At that point, I disconnected the section of fuel hose coming from the fuel tank underneath the seat to where it feeds the fuel pump and hooked up a test tank with a heavy mixture of SeaFoam in which the engine immediately started and ran as it should.
The hose going to the fuel tank had some obstruction that was not letting the fuel flow in which I used compressed air to back flow the fuel tank with about three quick blasts of air. After that, The fuel flow was considerably better in which I removed the test tank hose and replaced the regular fuel hose. The John Deere has been running strong ever since.
I guess over a period of time that sediment transferred from gas can had accumulated inside of the fuel tank into the fuel line. The John Deere 165 has a pickup line that sticks down into the fuel tank with a 90 degree turn where the fuel tank valve is mounted. Dealing with the IH metal fuel tanks and other farm equipment over the years kind of taught me to always check for good fuel flow from the fuel tank. Thanks for your great video, James.
Same thing with my friends L110.
Ran horrible, smoke pouring out of exhaust. I pulled the breather hose off the valve cover, and gas was pouring out of the valve cover...!!!!
JD wanted $46+ for the fuel pump, which had a torn pumping gasket, and gas was filling the crankcase. I bought a close match from ebay for $11 , and used the bottom half of the old pump. Presto, problem solved, changed oil and filter.
You sometimes bring out problem solutions, I wouldn't have thought of.
BTW, your pump was listed for $14...
I think the metal piece is a shim to allow the pump to fit on two different engines. Without the shim. It pumps more fuel because it engages the lobe more. Likely there are like a 16 and an 18 hp engine that it would fit. The 18 will by necessity take more fuel.
Great video like the magic at 23:25 carb/aircleaner assembly tool that places the nuts
The magic of editing
I have that same tractor over the years I’ve had to replace the fuel pump and the coil and rebuild the carburetor other than that it runs good😊
It would be real nice James if they had instructions on what that metal plate is for. I think your good for another 25 years! Great video as always. 💲👍🇺🇸
They might do that roger, but you' ll need to be able to read chinese...
I've got similar engine on old craftsman lt4000. Changed pump once. I use it for plowing snow only. I've had to get it running on carb cleaner after it sits a long time but eventually it pumps and runs ok.
Good fix!
Thanks
Great video as always. I have to say that I like you avoiding your face in contrast to most people which make us watch twice the size of their real life faces on our big screens frequently. Calming and therapeutic, carry on :)
Do you have someone particular in mind. I sure do!
I’ve always been wanting to see his face he sounds so fine and sexy
You can facilitate gasket removal using common household paint remover or Goof-Off. Some of the bubbling paint removal sprays will eat it almost to the point of wiping the remaining gasket off with a rag. This is, of course; provided someone ahead of you didn't glue it on with 3M yellow or the like.
Your customer should be happy with your persistence. :) Great video.
His customer is himself. It's his own machine.
@Alan Torrance that was the joke.
Nice work and interesting vodeo👍
Best small engine repair guy on UA-cam my favourite channel all the best from Sydney Australia
Best small engine repair guy? Plz explain as to how you've come to that conclusion.
@@elcomandante9299 maybe your the best
I appreciate the comment.
Not even close , he’s a Mustie1 wanna be
I have a feeling that metal plate may be for spacing it out so it can be used in multiple instances. Its probably to clearance the lever arm a hair away from the cam lobe sometimes to bring it into spec.
Thanks James. Regards from the land of men in skirts.
RETAINNING RING trick was Great Idea
I would of attached the short top fuel line before bolting the fuel pump on but that is me very entertaining video @James Condon
I got the same engine on my GT225. That spacer is not needed. If you do use the spacer it moves the arm too far away from the cam. It is only meant for some engines. Just the gasket and you are good to go!
my feeling is spacer is there to make the amount of travel of the cam liver, so it changes the pulse of the pump.. no correct pulse pump will not work correctly ... however I enjoy your blog.. keep it up.. Merry Christmas .. be well and be safe..!!
8:00 just take it easy with that pad it’s a fine abrasive so the longer you sit the more you take off. As long as the gasket is gone your ok. You don’t need to remove any staining otherwise your taking off extra material.
Also by using a pad with your fingers you get a smooth surface at the risk of having a no longer flat surface.
You need to get a carbide tipped gasket scraper not just a normal one it's a life changer for removing those pressed style gaskets snap on makes one and I'm sure other manufacturers do as well
I thought you would change the fuel filter while you had it apart.👍🏻👏🏻
Many years ago I owned a 16 year old car with exactly the same problem and the mechanics tried everything but they found that the camshaft had a grove worn in it because of the pump arm, in the end they just put an electric pump on it and blocked off the old pump hole.
Definitely a spacer for pump level distance. the thickness of the metal gives that away and extra gasket.
Try using Dielectric grease on paper gaskets , repels liquids and keeps the gasket from sticking .
Ive had a few of the valve cover mounted pumps just stick internal intermittenly,replaced with new Kohler pumps
Great video sir. Truly That new fuel pump connector(s) . . . . . . . . .🤣
In less than a minute you could’ve taken the four screws off of the OEM Pump. Most likely a little debris in the check valve. 25 year old OEM pump is better than a brand new Chinese one
If you observed the cardboard box, it was made in Taiwan.
No, something in these pumps fails with age. If you buy a new old stock from Deere, 3 out of 4 chance it will be bad out of the box.
@@johndeerekid167 They have a rebuild kit on Amazon for 10 bucks
Yea, the stens is just a $12 Chinese pump for $40.
@@johndeerekid167 most likely a sticking diaphragm. Easy to fix with a little lube
Slip the upper hose on before putting bolts in.
I was yelling at the screen!
Good video mate.. as always lots of good information.. stay safe mate
Thanks Mick!
Thanks Mick!
It would have been nice to see the old pump dismantled and failure cause investigated. I hope you would follow-up with another video.
Nice
Thanks for videos, James. I recently started watching your channel. I couldn't tell for sure if it was WD40 that you were using to lube tubing and such. I think WD40 has a solvent in it. Just a suggestion: you may be better off with a teflon or silicone based lubricant, more suitable for o-rings, seals and rubber.
I did use WD40. Thanks for the tip.
Put the short hose on the pump first and then move the pump up into position.
Not sure why you cut it to begin with. Thanks James
The risk with old fuel hose (20+ years, remember) is that you will wreck something (like the metal fuel line) tryingng to get the very stuck rubber off.
In this case the snip was the best idea..one end is thrown away on the old pump..
while the bit on the metal end can now be dealt with by removing the clip and slitting the rubber.....no stress on the metal fuel line....
Smart use of a c-clip
Good fix, only suggestion is place the hose on before bolting the pump on, yes short hose and more rigid but it will go for sure.
I’m surprised that you didn’t open the original pump to see why it stopped working.
For the love of God plug the hole with a clean blue shop paper towel when using roloc disc's. The plastic has abrasive in it, when you get that fine dust all over the place and it eventually gets in your oil, it turns your oil into liquid abrasive. Do NOT let any of that dust get into the engine!
As soon as I saw that spacer I thought this isn’t going to work because the cam and pump actuator are designed for a specific tolerance and adding the spacer may cause a problem. Yup. Then fitting that new hose I kept asking you why you weren’t mating the hose first and then bolting on the pump, but you didn’t hear me! Then you did it the same way a second time because you didn’t have faith the pump was actually working! I get that but I would have bolted it on and gone with the second test, but that’s just me. On the other hand, I got to yell, “We struck gas!!!” 😉👍🔧🧰
I always put the fuel cut off valve before the filter.
I'd never seen the fuel pump replacement on that tractor before; the way the fittings mount into the pump are very similar to SharkBite solderless plumbing fittings. Pretty cool! Thanks again James for another great video. God bless. Rev. D.
I have the same exact lt155 tractor this is very helpful video just incase this happens..i have 2 other problems ..the trans leaks but i cant see from where..and second it likes to backfire sometimes on startup and shut off...the electric carb shutoff solenoid is working as far as i can tell..so i dunno 🤷..thanks 👍
Had a John Deere this summer with similar issue. Turned out to be a blocked fuel cap.
It's possible it works on multiple engines that some require the spacer
The first person that I've seen use that snap ring to put those parts on other people didn't know what it was for
The metal mounting plate is to fit the preformed gasket of the new pump. The existing engine block mount hole is too big for the preformed gasket.
James, you should get yourself a tungsten carbide gasket scraper.
James I would like to see you pull apart that fuel pump.
Thanks for the video. Who would know what the c-clip is for? It should come with instructions.
Could the check valves be tested by blowing gently in the input side of the pump (air should flow) and into the output side of the pump (air should not flow)? Similar to how the needle & float is tested on a carburetor. Or is the pump different internally that might not work that way? I sometimes want to take broken things apart to see what makes them tick.
I think putting the spacer in and find that it isn't needed than it is omit it and find out that it was needed because of a bent pump arm or more serious damage to the pump.
Nice ride on mower!! Those Kohler engines are generally good. Pity about the fuel pump they use.
It only lasted 25 years ...
@@TheOtherBill 25 years is a long time, though the machine isn't constantly being used. A friend (now deceased) had a gardening business. He had one of these mowers. It was used every day. I know he replaced the fuel pump a lot of times.