Did Kurt Cobain Ghostwrite Hole's Biggest Album?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- #classicrock #nirvana #alternativerock #kurtcobain
🔔 If you're new, Subscribe! ➤ bit.ly/subscribeSROCK
This video dives into the long-standing rumor that Kurt Cobain was the secret ghostwriter behind many of Hole's songs, particularly those on their breakthrough album "Live Through This." We examine the evidence, including alleged demo tapes of Cobain singing Hole tracks, comments made by Dave Grohl questioning Courtney Love's songwriting abilities, and the musical similarities between Nirvana and Hole's music. We'll also analyze the contributions of other Hole members like Kristen Pfaff and Eric Erlandson, and explore whether Love's songwriting was truly her own or if Cobain, as her husband and Nirvana's frontman, played a larger role than admitted. Was "Live Through This" a collaboration between the grunge icons, or is this just a case of fans and fellow musicians like Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselich misinterpreting the influence of Kurt Cobain on Hole's sound?
Might not be true, but Billy definitely wrote most of Celebrity Skin.
Is this voice AI?
That's not a secret though.
@@Lukelykethere was no AI in the 90's genius.
The album had 12 songs and he collaborated on 5. For example, Hole wrote Celebrity Skin and when Billy heard it, he suggested the addition of the opening riff (something that gave him co-writing credits). Without Hole, the song wouldn't exist at all. The same with Dying (Hole's demo is onIine). That's not writing "most" of the album
They meant AI narrating the video, genius.
It’s never as simple as what people think.
Ha, simple sentence says everything
He definitely wrote it as Billy did with celebrity skin. If Cortney has any song writing ability she have a lot more albums
spot on
Not necessarily, some songwriters have a streak and then run out of steam. Plus there's all kinds of reasons why songwriters become inactive, she did a fourth Hole record with a new band when no-one from the original band wanted to work with her anymore, when that predictably imploded she did a solo record. Her best work is clearly the stuff when she had good people around her helping her make the best of her songwriting, but there's no doubt in my mind that she's a very talented songwriter and the soul in her songs is hers.
In my high school clique we all thought he wrote those songs. It wasn’t a secret.
I was 17 at a different high school. So did we.
Some of those songs were written before she even knew Kurt. She had songs & a album before she dated Billy & Kurt & she had songs after Kurt's death as well. Kurt was on backing vocals on LTT Whoop de f**kin do. This was no secret.
The woman is a vampire in so many ways
Centuries ago, she would've been burnt
FRR
TRANSGENDER
TRANSGENDER
@@gracielamago4170
- or Transpecies
Oh my God even her Unplugged has the same ambient and decorations as Nirvana's!
She's the Nancy Spungen of the 90s. Don't try to change my mind.
It’s no coincidence that Live Through This sounded like Nirvana and Celebrity Skin sounded like Smashing Pumpkins.
The difference is Billy Corgan could never allow himself to go uncredited
She had an album before LTT. Pretty on the Inside before she knew Kurt & Billy.
Miss World is a Pumpkins song, sung by a murderer…
"Celebrity Skin sounded like Smashing Pumpkins."
me if I hadn listened to celebrity skin and the SP discography before
@@croay but it does sound like a Billy riff.
@@notsure1135 if you look hard enough you can start seeing billy riffs everywhere, it's called bias. especially if you're saying that about the whole album.
I had no idea Hole played You Know You’re Right unplugged back in 95. She definitely wanted to use that one
she said it was Kurt's last song and that they didn't do it well but it was their tribute to him. She never played it again.
@@julesvan I want those people who write lies to get famous to people can write lies about them.
Billy had a major role in Celebrity Skin but Courtney still denied he had major involvement. She struggles to give anyone credit for anything. Her parents,her trust fund,any significant others, her former band mates. And then at the slightest criticism she deflects with someone just hating her due to being an anti feminist… as if she is infallible because she’s a female. Next do a video of the many inconsistencies of Courtney Love… then one thing will be clear… why no one can believe Courtney Love
they give him credit on the celebrity skin album lyric sheet for writing the music…so yeah he has the credit…
Fr
If you listen to isolated tracks from her shows, she can’t even play her instrument. So how did she do it herself…
FRR
DAYUM i didn’t even know that
I’m 43 soon to be 44 I have loved Nirvana since I was a kid. I am a fan of Cortney Love too. I remember seeing Hole at Lalapoolooza in 1995. Courtney Love was saying bad things about Bikini kill. Right after talking bad about Bikini Kill Courtney Love said something like “Let’s play that song that we wrote with Kurt!” She seemed to have said to her bandmates. Then they went into a song. I don’t remember what song it was. I love Hole though. So maybe they both influenced each other.
"since" you were a kid? I loved them when I was a kid...then I grew up.
@@insertnamehere4419 Good for you my friend! I don’t expect everyone to listen to the same music and artists. Not the end of the world because you don’t like Nirvana. Thanks for sharing
@@insertnamehere4419I still love nirvana lol but not hole- 😅
Im sure Kurt and Billy Corgan wrote allot of her songs.
Billy corgan wrote a lot of stuff. His chord progression and vocal lines are very obvious. Ironically the first album pretty on the inside was great which was Eric 's music and Courtney 's words.
If Billy helped her write music im pretty sure she got help from kurt as well right she hasn’t made anything that stood out I don’t believe she ever will or could 🎶✌🏽
Yeah
Not ONE mention of her ACTUAL first album Pretty on the inside - Only ignorant people say Live through this is the first album. Prettyt On the Inside was a good album in it's own right, dirtier and grungier, but it shows clearly that Courtney and Hole were not ripping off Kurt - they had their own thing going and it was pretty good. Certainly live through this had Kurt influence, and they were a couple so surely he gave her pointers and maybe collabed a little but, but Hole had their sound before Kurt. This album is just more focused and polished.
Was looking for this comment. My then gf, now wife, had the cassette in 92 . It’s a very good raw album. Teenage whore is classic.
I agree with this completely. I don't know why people say Kurt wrote everything, like they can prove it. But they can't.
Courtney love will always be the most “professional opportunist”. Even if you find her unethical it’s admirable in her seemingly perfect time place meetings.
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. It’s not that Kurt composed Live Through This, but likely influenced it in subtle ways. Maybe even advised Courtney at times. As 2 singer songwriters in a relationship, that’s bound to happen. Corgan’s influence on Celebrity Skin, on the other hand, is super obvious and not a secret.
Who ever wrote it.... Live through this is a very good album. Enjoy it! ❤️☀️🤗
Thnx to kurdt
A lot of her songs sound very similar to Kurt's. Makes ya wonder.🤔
That whole scene was similar
So if duh
To be fair everyone was trying to sound like Nirvana around that time
@@peytonlong5573
You must be deaf
No way
Was not a thing
@@natandjai yes it was lol several rip off nirvana type bands
Yes. Cobain wrote most of "Live through This" and Corgan wrote most of "Celebrity Skin."
He never wrote it. Where is the proof? It's a baseless rumor. All the band members straight up say the only thing he did WAS sing on a couple of tracks. It was confirmed that Corgan wrote five songs so WHERE do they say Kurt wrote LTT?
'Doll Parts' is a funny & sad song. That whole album is great.
Billy Corgan definitely wrote “Malibu”; it’s got all of his guitar-isms all throughout
well duh, they give him credit on the album for writing the music
@@dustcakegirl1…and then tried to downplay the extent of his contributions and by his own admissions didn’t give him credit on the songs he did write. Eric E claimed he wrote the music on Malibu. Sounds like classic Corgan to me including how the verse is sung and even the lyrics.
Stone Temple Pilots has a song called "Too Cool Queenie", which is clearly about Courtney Love.
Stone Temple Pilots Kravitz a lot of their songs.
You mean do I believe Courtney Love used demos Kurt was working on before he passed away? ABSOLUTELY
Frrrr
Hard to say. So many bands at that time would cop elements of the big successful bands of that era. I was in a band then (actually played a show with hole), and after Soundgarden became influential all of a sudden everyone (ourselves included) were dropping down to D. After Alice In Chains? Spooky harmonies became a thing. Dont get me started with all the marble mouth singers that came out because of Eddie Vedder. And With Love literally sharing a bed with Cobain? id be surprised if his influence didn’t rub off on her! But I also think he probably did help her as well. Probably a bit of both influence and help.
It’s live through this, not live through this! 😆
AI BS
It's a bit sad that it's an entire video about about the said album and they couldn't get the name right, AI or not...
@lippi2171 it's a bit sad the video is about an era in which authenticity was everything, and it's obviously narrated by AI (if not composed by it) with seemingly no editorial attention to what it's saying. I turned it off five minutes in.
@@JP-ve7or didn't watch it either. It's obviously AI yeah. The channel used to be good and informative, but they switched to weird uncanny valley material
Who knows you can't believe anything she says,Billy said he did help Courtney,she can't put down music on paper
Most singers don’t write all of their songs. Big bands like the Beatles or Fleetwood Mac not only had at least 3 of the band members writing lyrics, but they also contributed to music composition. I don’t think a song like Fleetwood Mac’s « Dreams » would have been as good if only Stevie would have written it, yet it is her song. Collaborative art makes it difficult to know when one’s influence stops and another starts because people with bounce off of each other with ideas.
Courtney Love was not the best song writer or music composer with Hole’s first album « Pretty on the Inside ». Though there is wonderful potential in the lyrics with « Teenage Whore » or « Good Sister / Bad sister ». With those songs, one car hear how they could be influenced the Nirvana way or the Smashing Pumpking way.
I believe that Hole with Courtney Love as a major influence did write the lyrics, gave the themes, the ambiance. Did she write all the music? That I have more doubts. Probably the band was able to put a general structure, and they then had help from an editor / producer to go in the direction they wanted.
But to state that just because Live Through This sounds like Nirvana is completely forgetting the times and the releases there were in those days… Everyone wanted to sound like Nirvana.
The difference with Nirvana and Hole is that the themese evocked by Hole are personal to Love’s life, and to being a woman, and they are more concrete thoughts that Cobain’s poetics.
I gotta say, there's a difference between someone influencing a song/album by introducing subject matter, or even being a muse VS. literally writing songs for the album.
Those are not the same thing. So, comparing CL's influence to In Utero to Kurt's alleged influence on Live Through This are two very different things.
People have no problem with her writing songs for/about Kurt; but they feel misled when it seems like Kurt's alleged songwriting contribution was not acknowledged.
Maybe that's how he wanted it, anyway. Or maybe his contribution was minimal - I don't know.
But those things are not comparable is my point.
I believe he helped and influenced in the album put word choices here and there but that’s all I don’t think he wrote the WHOLE album but that’s my personal opinion
So many things pointing to Kurt writing songs on this album. The cord progressions, lyrics & quite-loud dynamics on many of the songs, the fact that Billy Corgan wrote their next album, and the fact that nowhere in the liner notes was Kurt mentioned or thanked even though it's a fact he sang backup vocals on at least one of the album's songs. Plus, Courtney is such a leech-fraud in general.
Well, there's one little fact that most people miss. Courtney can't play the guitar, at all, not one note. She has admitted this, even saying a couple years ago that she was taking lessons to finally learn how to play the guitar.
I love her vocals and lyrics, but she is unable to write music.
I don’t like Courtney but I do admit. She has a wonderful voice but the rest like the guitar lyrics are meh not sure about that part- but this is just me personally lol
Ive always loved "Live Through This" because its always sounded like a Nirvana record. I was always convinced either Kurt wrote it, or she took the songs from him
and yo you should do your next video about how the drummer for Nirvana actually wrote all the songs for the singer of the Foo Fighters.. yo thats a true conspiracy
Well that’s obviously not true because in order to cope with Kurt’s death Dave wrote and recorded the first album in a very short period of time! (Idk how much) but yeah…
@@0n_a_plain. Ya exactly Dave the drummer for Nirvana wrote all the songs for the singer of the foo fighters 😱🤯
I would have to say they both were in each other’s music writing because in a interview Kurt says how he liked to listen to Courtney’s music while she was making it and Courtney did that same so I feel that would have influenced both to make hole sound a bit like nirvana and for Nirvana to get more good with lyrics
Who wrote that song shown on Hit So Hard ? I believe it's called Stinkin' of You. It seems it was a melody of Vourtney's, I love that riff. If she wrote that then I can believe she has some potential to have written most of her own stuff
Of course it was Courtney!
courtney's actually got the potential for her music but the problem is her characteristics ofc held her back. if she wasnt anything like this, id bet she woudlnt be competing against, rather competing with modern hiphop music today. its sad to see people who still refuse to budge regardless.
I don't think she even makes music anymore at this point.
I been saying this since 1994!
But I do concede that Courtney made the MASSIVE contribution of telling Kurt about Pennyroyal Tea, and Frances Farmer (aka that Nirvana song I never bothered listening to)
Lol
I have long suspected that Kurk ghost wrote at least some of Hole's songs.
Liars in the comments are acting like she is an awful person are the ones who don't know anything past 2008.
He probably helped her melodies on that album, Billy definitely wrote for her tho I think we can all agree on that
Being influenced and straight up writing material is a whole different thing
Pretty on the Inside have great songs and lyrics and she wasn't with Kurt.
Kurt should have stayed with Mary. He'd still be alive today.
Tracy is the right answer. Mary was an obsessed fan who Iied to him from the start. Anyone would have made the same choice: stick with the girl who had been friends with his drummer for years and had been on tour with his band, and dump the girl he'd known only for a few weeks who Iied and wasn't close with anyone he knew. I don't blame him for choosing Courtney over Mary, but I do for getting rid of Tracy.
@@julesvan i think tracy dropped kurt because he wanted a monogamous relationship and she didnt.
@@revminTphresh I think you're thinking of Tobi Vale from Bikini Kill. Tracy was Kurt's first girlfriend before he had any success. Nevermind was written when Kurt was with Tobi, with much of it reflecting his relationship with her.
Mary was a teetotaler. That relationship would have never worked out.
Not true he was using heroin. Nobody lives a long life on that crap
She definitely had help and won't acknowledge the people who helped her but she did have the talent and guts to chase a dream of forming a band and getting herself out there.
I'm not the biggest fan of hers but at least she tried to do something that most only dream of.
She had a great voice and performed awesome live, can’t fake that at least.
Kurt should've made it work with that other chick. Why did Courtney always look as if she'd smell bad?
LOL
It wouldn't surprise me since Billy Corgan helped her write Celebrity Skin.
I remember reading an interview with Kurt or watching an interview where he states whenever he comes up with a riff at home Courtney jumps on it & says can I have that? And Kurt sheepishly says he replies go ahead take it. Then he further stated he will even hide in a closet to play guitar & work on coming up with riffs where she can’t necessarily hear him for fear she‘ll ask to take whatever new he is working.
He never said that. Fake news
I thought this when live through this was released
Courtney wrote poetry, and the songs were composed using her words. The actual music, though...not so certain because accounts vary. It'd be naive to dismiss her Hole bandmates as not having any artistic input because they definitely did, Kristen Pfaff was a great musician. But it's also no secret that Billy Corgan co-wrote half of the Celebrity Skin songs. Courtney Love used her men - two great songwriters - so you could see that as intelligent or leeching depending on your attitude towards her. I'd say they were mentors to a woman desperate to make her mark, which she did. To be honest about it though, without Corgan and Cobain I doubt she'd be known at all. Faith No More got rid of her pretty quickly.
Its weird she was in the sid and nancy movie then she became nancy. Trippy
The real genius behind the hole tunes sounds like it was mostly a group of or at least multiple people who were closer to regular than genius talented sure i dont think it took a genius to write a hole tune
My anxiety peaks everytime the narrator says "live" through this.
Interesting that there is no analysis of their first album, Pretty on the Inside. It didn’t exactly have much in terms of hooks, perhaps that’s what she struggled with the most.
totally, amazing lyrics on that album IMO
as far as being "genius" Love has to be in *trickery"and or murder conspirator ,albeit Kurt would be in music and or art
the original little weasel drummer wrote them all he was their secret weapon
That reminds me of the story between elliott smith and jennifer chiba, everything goes down at the point elliott helped her to edit her band’s album.
Same story but different 😅
Everyone knows Kurt wrote this album. it's got the Beatles sensibilities that Nirvana has. Of course he did. There is no way she wrote it or she would have made a lot more albums...she would have ten by now
Where is your proof that he did?
@@marcen12 cause she got another boyfriend to write her next album and then she never releases another popular album...what changed? I don't think she really ever had any talent...she's a hack, face it fan boy
Holes pretty on the inside, was their 1st lp, and before Kurt
He definitely helped her with some stuff. but to what extent?
I know how did ghost writing on the drums 4 for her band in my opinion..
Listen to Violet. It's got Cobain all over it, lyrically and the melody.
The only thing "Violet" has that Kurt didn't do much is the heavy use of chords using only the root and the 3rd, but this could be an adaptation Eric or Pfaff did over what Kurt wrote.
@@AI-go622 Violet was written b4 Kurt&Courtney were a couple. So theorising about lyrics, melodies, or Kurt or Kristen's input is absurd.
@@julesvan But that was just the lyrics, no? As for chords, melodies, etc, things could have changed for the 1994 album version.
@@julesvan Actually just saw it live n 1991 here, so yeah, you're right about that one.
@@AI-go622 what's annoying is that Violet was written b4 Cobain was with her but his fans autamatically ignore the fact and cIaim to have some musical reasons to back their nonsense up. I love Nirvana but alt bands weren't Mozart. They repeated the same chords and structures so many songs sound very similar and nobody cIaims that it had to be Cobain writing for all the bands. Only with Courtney and that's where misogyny has been running wild and free for 30 years.
YES
It sounds nothing like Kurt would write.
Stern fanning the flames as always lol
Everyone has influence on each other. To say your married to a musician who writes music, and be with them for two years and say it doesn't Influence you would be a lie. It's not Kurt or Courtney where lead guitarists or something. No they where from the gritty underground,and came to the forefront when rock songwriting evolved back to something more basic,yet rocked, yet had complex melody in the music at times. I don't like Courtney but I can't take anything away from her on that front.sure maybe she sucks at writing,but maybe Kurt did as well until he met her. We just don't really know. We don't know a lot about how the songs came to be,and how long or short it took to hammer certain things out. Kurt definitely was a revisionist and had ideas sitting around for years that got demo'd than just sat. That's part of his greatness, is that scatterbrain approach to having all these bits and pieces of paper and riffs and drawings and paintings and writings and poetry and absurd bullshlt just scattered around his living space. Sometimes a song could be easily written and be done, but much like Ozzy with black Sabbath or john Lennon, there are versions of things where lyrics and melodies where tried in different ways and even sometimes the 'final' version wasn't so final. I bet if Kurt lived on he'd have changed lyrics or parts to songs they continually play Just to keep things fresh. Or certain songs would be dropped for years before randomly popping back up in the set.the scattered approach is definitely way more interesting than say a band like Metallica, who just plays it the same for 40 years, and maybe only changes the last few notes at the end for live feel so it isn't as abrupt or bland as the album ending
I won't loose any sleep if I don't know
If you know anything about Billy Corgan and have listened extensivley to his demos, then you cannot come to any other conclusion than he wrote Malibu! The chord progression, vocal phrasing and everything else has his hallmarks all over it. When Jools Holland on his show Later.. asked Courtney what the song was about her exact words were 'I don't know' - that's because she didn't write it!
Billy Corgan is properly credited on Malibu as is Eric Erlandson. She claims he only helped with the composition and arrangement though. I don't really think it is that important to debate it when someone is properly credited. It was a collaboration that he is getting royalties for.
@@JetWindTV The scope of his input has been debated though even by Corgan himself! Love at the time of its release played down his input. I remember reading that Eric claimed he came up with the chord sequence. I call BS on that as the verse chord structure and melody has all the hallmarks of Corgan’s sound. The official title at the time for Corgan’s input was that he was just at the recording sessions as a consultant. He was clearly more than that. Corgan has actually said he wrote most of the album, even the songs he isn’t credited on!
They were both creatives, but who do I get the sense that she waa always competing with him.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he did help some anyway
Lost the sound there at the start I think
If Kurt had written it, it would be a hell of lot better.
Credit in the Straight world is a cover of Young Marble Giants.
Courney Love is the human embodiment of a half-smoked Virginia Slim. It was gross to begin with, but now it's nothing but pure bitterness and tar.
LOL
But who ever heard about Hole before Nirvana and Nevermind!
Hole was number 1 at the indie chart in the UK before Nevermind was released, so the British did know.
I had . I also heard of Nirvana before Nevermind. It’s an album called Bleach.
Nope Billy Korgan did
It's not Live through this? Its "Live through this"
When Nirvana was in Brazil, they went to a recording studio where Dalmo Beloti, a sound engineer says they recorded Hole songs but without Courtney being there. The recordings were boxed up and taken with them.
KURT may just edge her out in terms of prolific songwriting...
But IF ur talkin' Seductively tossing a leg up on a speaker in a miniskirt....
COURTNEYS' in a class a
all her own
It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to figure out a Courtney has absolutely zero talent. If she wouldn’t have hitched her box car to the Cobain train at best she would be a footnote in the history of music . Also let’s not forget that Hole as of today over 30 years later Hope has only sold 10% record sales compared to Nirvana. It’s a shame he didn’t stay with Tracy Marander.
Too much to say she had no talent. Pretty on the Inside is a good album.
@@Hilaire_Balrog Love has talent. The people who hate her think that she's talentless, despite the fact that they can't do the same.
We know already they were writing together at In Utero time. So what?
Without Kurt, would we be here right now?
No, because he's jesus incarnate
of course he did..
Is that El Duche blood on the tracks? Same answer.
If he did, he wrote it with his left hand (Kurt was a southpaw, everyone knows that) so the pen should be in his left hand.
No, the pen exactly where it should be (I guess not everyone knows he played guitar left handed but wrote with his right hand)
@@_MrAvocado_ I stand corrected.
@@CraigMarks-uy5dc 👍
She hasn't had a good record since.
Even the very first time I listened to "Live Through This" (kickass album, no matter what), I suspected that Kurt had at least a major role in the writing, specially "Gutless", which sounds like a straight-up Nirvana song.
I think he did for the cake album.
I could do with out the courtney love/ stevie nicks compaŕison. Other than that, great content. 🫅Kurt rules, down with Courtney 🧝♀️🖤
Courtney certainly "borrowed" a couple of his songs, but the songs on Live Through This just don't sound like songs Kurt would write. They just hit completely differently.
That's probably true,I've never heard it. Tho they def had different senses of melody. So of course it wouldn't sound like it. Even if Courtney straight up wrote a song for Kurt, Kurt would definitely change it just cuz he was himself. No different than how certain covers are just straight up covers 1:1 and some are vastly different. The same would go for if Kurt wrote finished songs and handed them to Courtney. She'd have her own way of doing it, cuz even if she can barely write a song, she still has enough experience with musical sense, to be able to alter it to suit her
She probably asked for his help with melodies if anything
@@peytonlong5573 not likely.
Hole had a biggest album?
Yes
If he ghost wrote any songs then they’re not stolen. Very misleading.
guaranteed, always thought it was
Celebrity Skin is the only decent record Hole ever made, and that's because it was written by Billy Corgan. seems the only 'talent' Courtney has is in finding and hiring assassins
Ive always said this
Star Fuqah
this video is so bad, it just negates so much of hole prior to her relationship with kurt and post. Such a bait video. Do better 'journalism'.
I quote Billie eilish... "Duh."
No, really. Courtney Love was just a master of the verse, chorus, verse, loud, soft, dynamic. A pop grunge hit machine. That's why the albums before and after were so similar and good. 😐 Live Through This is the 2nd disc of In Utero. It was Nirvana's White Album. The Pumpkins Melancholy. We knew it when we were 17. We know it now at 47. Eric Erlandson was allowed to pilfer Cobain's home recordings, too, for riffs.
Side note: I don't listen to Billie Eilish. I've seen the video for that song. Swear.