How to pack a muffler // Paul Brodie's Shop
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
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#brakecable #muffler #tigercub #fussyframebuilder
I build side pipes for Shelby Cobra replicas and make my own mufflers. I've had good success using stainless steel pot scrubbers. They are donut shaped and you can stretch them out and slide them over the baffle tube. stack them up untill the whole baffle tube is covered with a single layer of pot scrubbers. Then wrap the whole thing in fiberglass. Then a layer of ceramic wool mat. The pot scrubbers help preserve the fiberglass and stop it getting blown out. The ceramic wool mat keeps the outside temp of the pipe down as it's easy to burn your leg on them getting out of the car.
Michael, thanks for watching and commenting. Never would have thought of using stainless pot scrubbers.
Brilliant.
@@digschopper9321 Thanks!
Great idea on muffler packing.
@@davidparker3346 Thanks David.
I have to tell you, a couple days ago I found this channel and I can't believe I have not seen you before. Stuff you're doing with old motorcycles is amazing! It reminds me of rebuilding my dad's 47 Indian Chief. I just love watching your work. Please keep it up!
Ed, thanks for watching and commenting...
♡
Who would have thought that making a brake cable could have me glued to my laptop! Thanks Paul for a valuable masterclass!
Thanks Chris. It is good to know how to make a brake cable!
Love your move of tapping in the lathe and then twisting the röhm chuck to release the tap at the last moment.
Yes, I have practiced that technique for many years! 😉
Seen the thumbnail and instantly thought "Muffin Stuffin" and now I'm laughing for no reason.... 😂🤣
Muffin Stuffin has a ring to it.
Every damn time Paul Brodie....every time I watch your content I end up learning at least something. Thanks!
Doc, thanks for watching.
18:39 booming!
Another action-packed(!!) video. Perfection once again. Top stuff.
Thanks Phil :)
13:40 Mr. Brodie, with this sentence you have give me some hope, that I'm not the only one. I try to explain it to my wife that's life, you can't always stick to the schedule like it's tattooed on your forhead.
Well done Mr. Brodie
Steinmar, thank you.
"We're just having fun, that's all" - Love your style Paul! - Each time I tackle the simplest job, then it's a major tension-filled drama?
Thank you Oldjaw Dee.
Gotta be a labor of love, Tiger Cubs.
Yes, you got that right.
“Action Packed” good pun!
Fascinating to watch. Thank you very much!
Eos, thanks for watching.
"Overtime and over budget" is a small price to pay for high quality long - lasting gear. Excellent video!
Thank you Vlad :)
I remember my Dad showing me how to do that flaring out the cable and soft soldering a cable end on, on my own Tiger Cub, 1970.
Excellent work as usual. I love the confidence you give us in a world of, “I would take it to a pros.”, or, “It won’t be safe.” Thanks for keeping craftsmanship alive!
Thank you for watching and commenting.
Can’t get enough of this channel. Quality content.
Thank you George.
Another excellent video Paul. That Delron cable guide is not going to tighten that fork tube pinch bolt, unless there is something I missed. Great cable making lesson. You are truly worth watching if you like to learn how to build motorcycles.
Delrin takes quite some force before it squishes. The fork tube pinvch bolt is going to work just fine! Thanks for watching.
@@paulbrodie good Early Tuesday morning to you both
Great vid, I was taught laying a layer of woven glass down first helps the packing live longer and to pack it to a snug plus level. Too loose and there's not enough medium to absorb and too tight and the sound bounces off.
The first muffler I did had a rusted inner tube, so I made one with a drill press & normal galvanized exhaust pipe. Then I wrapped the tube with fiberglass weave (for auto body, iirc "Bondo" brand :p ). I put the tube in the tube & packed the loose space with fiberglass mat (same stuff) & capped it.
It worked well, and it was easier than your idea.
Wow... I just realized something. The last time I packed a muffler was about 35 years ago! Thanks Paul. Great video as always :)
Thanks Pete. Yes, the years are whipping by!
Watching your videos is always super interesting and time flies. But maybe this time I can give you a little tip... In order to pack tight that spot where you can't reach, next time you can make a sleeve using a sheet metal or a tube, the internal diameter and length the same as the muffler core. You pack the wool around that than you slide it until the bottom of the muffler (you can use aluminum tape to tight that spot, or something else if you are able to remove it). Than slip out the sleeve et voilà 😁. Makes sense? I was pretty bad in english back in school, sorry 🤣
Yes that does make sense, thank you.
It'll be interesting to hear what the engine sounds like when it's finished. The last exhaust that I packed, it all blew out in 6 month's. Thanks for another very educational video Paul and Mitch.
Thanks David. Yes, I am very keen to hear the exhaust note.
I always learn something from your videos.
GREAT channel. Thanks Paul & Mitch.
Thank you David.
You packed my exhaust too tight.
That's what she said.
🤣
Great work you do there. That's pretty well the exact way I pack my RZ350, aftermarket mufflers. When I got the bike the previous owner, didn't adjust the angle of the pipes properly, so the rear axle bolt on both sides smashed against the cans on both sides. Luckily one side was okay, but on the other side, the baffle was completely destroyed, and the whole can mounts on the baffle with a flange on the one end with a circlip to keep it on. I couldn't find any replacement, so I found a piece of tubing the right size, and had to drill all the holes in it on the milling machine. Been working for 20 years now.
Thanks John B. Good story about your RZ..
Such a clever dude. I'm going to use that tapping trick for the tailstock.
Don't break a tap. Happens very fast!
Hello Paul, Mitch. As always, thank you for an enjoyable video. I was slightly surprised that you made an adaptor rather than whole new threaded adjusters for the brakes, that would have been my first impulse (and in stainless) but I'm not really known for the path of least resistance.
Re: muffler packing, my favorite thing to do when packing mufflers is to put two wraps of window screen wire mesh around the core before packing with fiberglass. This gets held on with a few turns of safety wire. The theory (which I can't substantiate at all) is that it supports the fiberglass and prevents it from breaking off and going out the pipe as quickly. I've built quite a few exhausts, and done that to all of them, and nobody has complained.
I think you'll be pleased with the tone - it''ll be frisky but not too sharp - the large holes with the high % of open area will do well at reducing the high frequency. Back when Muzzy made exhausts, they used small holes with a lower % open area, and their systems always had a signature raspy, snappy tone. You don't have a lot of muffler volume, so it won't be quiet by any means.
Thanks Alan. Making cable adjusters out of stainless would be a LOT of work. If I did stuff like that the little Cub would take Forever!
@@paulbrodie Ha. Story of my life.
Excellent video. I remember my Sports Cub having truly awful fin casting. Japanese motorcycle casting really showed how rough the British motorcycle industry was. I did find a Sports Cub head that was good eventually. They were relatively plentiful in the late 1970s, although getting at them was not easy [what did we do before the World-Wide-Web?].
Your cable ferrule machining was a delight, but you do give me the colly-wobbles with your filing around a speeding chuck. I have seen a person have an accident. Once seen, never forgotten. Anyway. You obviously know. Stay safe.
Thank you Rambler Andy. I have been spending a little time on the Cub head fins, making them a little nicer. I am very respectful of the chuck in my lathe. Especially when it is spinning. My anniversary is next Wednesday: 55 years of making stuff out of metal.
I also enjoy a coffee while watching your videos!
I'm so glad!
We even used to use Steel Wool, on the old bikes and hot rods
Someone else said the same. And Brillo pads too!
Excellent craftmanship, great camera work, good humor as well! Nice!
Thank you Davide.
The newer Silverbrite solder works better than the old 50-50 you got laying around the farm I've found.Thank you Paul.RMM
Awesome little parts, bravo
Hey Paulo
You should wear some protections when dealing with that fiberglass stuff .
your lungs will appreciate. Safety first !
I discovered your channel few weeks ago and i really like it .
Maybe one of these days i'll buy you and Mitch some coffee !
If I was using fiberglas every day, I would definitely have a mask. But, it only happens once in a blue moon, so I'm ok. Thanks for watching!
Safety third 😁✌️
Awesome stuff as usual, great refresher on cable making, cant get enough of that detail oriented content! This episode has brought the best comments out as well!!! More please! Loving the short format too
Thanks Glen. The short format is creeping up to be slightly longer. How does that happen?
We never forget about Mighty Mitch.
Never, ever.
well Mr brodie you may take your time but you can pack my muffler anytime.
We have been using steel wool as an inside layer on our small heard of mufflers.
Great job on stuffing the muffler. One tip for next time; when on the last layers, wrap fishing braid tight around the silencing media. You’ll fine it does a great job easy. 😎
LOL, The reason for packing as tight as possible is so a tuned length pipe will act as a tube rather than an expansion box.
It's more critical on two stroke motors.
The high frequencies will more likely pass through the perforations and be absorbed, the lower frequencies being longer wavelength tend to pass straight through and give a better tone.
Fitting aftermarket semi-race systems to RD250 and RD350 (plus various Suzuki's 250~550, the 750 had plenty for street use )proved the point to many customers back in the day, loud and tinny was way slower than a re-packed system (about 12~15mph on RD350)
Good thing I have a 4 stroke Cub... won't be so critical :)
I'm looking forward to hearing it!.
Me too!
cable making is a dying art, with dual clutch and ride by wire with hydraulic brakes. This video well save someone's grandchild a lot of time. Prosperity thanks you.
Thank you D Carter. Yes, I'm sure that not many of us are still making their own cables.
ua-cam.com/video/-Dmze9rxoTka/v-deo.html
Cool, learned a lot. Just picked up a 83 honda cb650sc that needs timing chain guide and some colling fin repair. After watching you I can start tackling it this spring. Going to make a scrambler.
Thanks Ray. Good luck with your CB650 project.
Great work! I always pick up a great tip or technique to add to my toolbelt ! Although I sometimes misplace that when I'm working on stuff...Ha....
Thanks Joe.
that was a good fit! Awesome work as always!
Thank you Robert.
Can't see why you made the cable guide from deleon. I would have though one in stainless with a deleon insert would be better and less bulky
Delrin is so easy to machine. A stainless guide / holder would have taken a few hours.
It's going to be a lovely machine! I think I would have just put a megaphone on it and made the neighbors mad! But your muffler and whole exhaust is gorgeous.
Matthew, thank you very much :)
Oh,about the Delrin, it really would be better to make a spacer tube about 1/32"/1mm shorter than the eventual thickness you use so it can compress slightly but still apply enough torque to bottom yoke. Unlike girder forks, tele's rely on bottom yoke to hold things (girder puts the main stress on top yoke)
We will do a torque test to see how the delrin holds up under compression.
@@paulbrodie 10-4
This one was packed with fun 😉
I like you!
Great content as usual, enjoying the new format. I've found over packing a silencer will reduce the effectiveness. Copper wire can be used to bind the packing to hold in place during assembly. A smear of clear bathroom silicone around the metal on metal mating surfaces will eliminate the packing blowing out. The silicone will not burn and is easy to remove in future. Just leave overnight to cure before firing it up.
Thanks Craig. You are the first person to warn me against over packing.
Great bit of ‘face-pulling’ packing the muffler, Paul..😂. Great job as always. Love your videos. BTW, I think the sound will be like: “phuttphuttphutt” 😂👌🤘👍
LOL! We must have gone to the same school of estimating time to do a job! End result was well worth it though! Delrin showed up in my Mfg Engrng trade magazines in the early '70s, and I LOVED it! Great for wear surfaces! And, btw, that is one PACKED muffler! Should be pretty quiet!
Thanks Tom!
I think that some chamfering on the inside bore of the delrin guide would be beneficial for the cable housing.
Yes, that did happen in the video.
@@paulbrodie sorry, I didn't notice it.
Good vid. A great vid would be longer with the comments we love to hear.
Wham bam thanks Mam is about how I feel.
Great bit of ‘face-pulling’ Paul😂. Love your excellent videos, keep up the great work. P.s I think the bike will sound like: “phuttphuttphutt” 😂🤘🤓
Thanks James.
Any closer to final assy and start up of the Tiger Cub as of October 4th, 2022 ??? Really enjoy the great work ethic by the 2 of you !!!
Well, my chemo goes until Feb / March of 2023 so don't go expecting too much! 😉
Excellent video as always, Paul and Mitch! Love that you make your own ferrules as a matter of course. Very curious to hear how it sounds too! I've only repacked a couple of mufflers, but I don't remember the repacking kits being that tight. Of course, they didn't muffle all that much either! Just mulling it over (definitely not an expert, but always curious!), I'm thinking looser packing would give the exhaust "waves" space to be absorbed. My thinking is that the extreme of tight packing would be if the space was so densely filled that the waves had absolutely nowhere to go, which would be the same as a straight pipe. Thoughts?
Thanks Fred. I think that the shock waves of the exhaust tend to loosen the packing over time. That's why you need to repack every so often. No one has ever told me to "pack loosely".
I know nothing about packing mufflers. But I would have thought It's too tight also like Fred Patton suggested.
Similar to insulation in a house, too tight and it"s not as effective.
But like I said I know nothing about this.
Great content Paul, reminded me of the time I routed the front brake cable badly on my Suzuki PE250 in the 1970,s, a trip over the handlebars and into ER was the result.
Thank you Michael.
I made a mold for forming lead ends on cables
Drill a hole in the end of a large bolt …all the way through the bolt
make a slot on the side for the cable
Put a rod in the hole in the bolt a tight fit
The rod does two things
It sets the depth
And pushes the lead end out of the mold
Frey the end of the cable insert it in the slot
Preheat the mold
Melt lead into the molt while holding the cable in place tamp the top to compress the lead let cool
And push it out of the mold with the rod
Use a vise to hold the rod
Set the bolt over the rod to rest on the vise at the right depth
If the rod is couple inches longer than bolt it works well
A little clean up with a file
You’re good to go
Surely that’s just making the cable-nipple out of lead. Bad idea.. Les
@@leslieaustin151
That’s what they are made out of on factory cables
I use lead free soldier
I just call it lead it works
I don't think I'll be making cables that way, but it sounds like it works for you. Thanks for commenting.
I understand wanting it packed tight but air has to move into the fibers to deaden the sound so i think the tighter you pack it the louder the muffler will be .
Normally i don't use a block to hold the cable . The barrel the cable goes threw i drill on side to the cable hole and thread and pinch the cable steady with a screw or bolt threw the side of the barrel.
Still enjoying your videos Paul, keep them coming, a master at work.
Thank you Michael.
Paul, I like the delrin cable sheath keeper. I hope your shrinking it to an athletically pleasing size. Nice design on the ferrules. Maybe knurling them with a couple circles.
Thanks Sean. In my mind, that delrin cable guide is constantly shrinking!
Could you wrap a piece of thin Mylar around the perforated tube, then wrap the fiberglass that is the full depth around it. Slide the fiberglass down and pull the Mylar out?
Well, that does sound like a possibility, but I'm not going to unpack my muffler just to give it a try... But Thanks!
I cant estimate how long something will take to save my life
Sometimes more difficult than actually doing the job.
I'm starting to like the short format. Originally I preferred the longer but with this a couple times a week I get to veg out twice as much and still get full measure each time. :)
Thanks Ed :)
That bike is going to be considerably better than when it left the factory!
Thanks Murray!
👍👌👏👏Cheers Chris
Chris!
I tried packing one on a honda trail 90 with steel wool once. T he steel wool caught fire and I left a trail of sparks for a few miles.
That doesn't sound like a very good spark arrestor at all.
hi paul. quick hand on the lathe to release the tap! if was me the crash would have made a nice vid haha. you work close to the machine but i see every movement carefully done, great. i´ve packed a ton of mufflers ( two strokes... ) one thing i did different was wrapping the outside of the fiberglass with chicken wire and a piece of wire to release once inside don´t know how to explain well. hope the bike sounds nice and if not you can always go megaphone!. thanks and take care. peter
Thank you Peter. I hope I like the sound :)
That all looked like a good fit. Well done.
Thanks ☮
nice job
Thank you! Cheers!
cant wait to hear the muffler!
Me too!
It’s good to be optimistic
I agree 100%😉
Great video as always, love this channel. :) Keep up the good work!
As good as ever, thank you. I just wondered when you showed the last broken head-fin, would that be easier to weld up with the head upside down? Les in UK
Thank you Leslie. That fin was hard to weld because of the lack of space. It's getting the tungsten in far enough and clearing the upper fin and the copper plate. If I weld it upside down then the top of the fin will be formed by the copper plate, and that's not always a nice surface. I prefer to file off the "lump" and get new material to see.
put the coffee on i am on my way over
" & then we'll have a front brake working " .. The cable yes .. Old bike bike brakes have reputation for lack of braking,,, Looking forward to the restoring / setting up the front brake video . ... What lube would you suggest for the cable?
I'm working on getting a 7" single leading shoe off a 350/500 Triumph. Should bolt right in and look good too. Engine oil for the cable.
ya better let me do that fin lol
Paul,using the lower triple clamp pinch bolt as a mount,doesn't the Delrin require an internal sleeve,as not to crush under torque? That would allow the bolt to loosen.
We will do a torque test to see just how squishable the Delrin really is.
Not expert on exhausts, but I have a advice :-) use a mask when work with this materials. There were small fibers flying around you, and those are not good for your health.
Razvan, thanks for your concern. 20 years ago I insulated my entire house and also my entire shop with pink fiberglas. No one ever told me to wear a mask or gloves, and I didn't. I'm still here :)
Sensacional!!! Parabéns amigo!!!
We call them silencers on this side of the Atlantic.
That's ok, I'm fine with that.
hi Paul checkout this film iv just watched...Welcome to the Murderdrome | A Brief History of Board Track Racing
Paul has hands of steel…!
I'm curious how much force that brass/solder cable end can withstand without failure. (probably more than you'd apply for braking.) I assume the failure point would maybe be the solder deforming and the cable pulling out. Just curious how it holds up as a general purpose technique for cable termination.
40 - 50 years ago, any decent motorcycle shop had a box of assorted cable termination fittings, lever bosses, ferrules and nipples. I can guarantee they the method that Paul uses is more than sufficient to take the strain. If you have owned an older British bike, this was par for the course. Thanks Paul and Mitch.
@@timheron6509 Thanks Tim!
I've never done an actual test to see how much force will pull the cable end off. But, I've also never had a failure in several decades.
Great work Paul. Will Delrin flame polish to get rid of the grey finish? I've never tried :)
Thank you. To be honest I have never tried flame polish on delrin..
Great work! On the topic of Delrin: Have you ever attempted or heard of using delrin to 'button' a vintage (hard to find) piston? I saw elsewhere that Delrin would be used to reduce friction and eliminate piston wear to the skirt and the only metal to metal contact would be the rings to walls. I'm curious of your take on this.
Thank you Forzaplayer7557. The piston needs to contact the cylinder wall. That's how it gets rid of its' heat. If you don't allow contact, the piston may overheat and possibly seize. I have heard of teflon buttons either end of the wristpin to save using circles. Not in the actual piston.
@@paulbrodie took me a moment but this is the reference to the piston buttons. ua-cam.com/video/k-Q6LWYWhiY/v-deo.html
Perhaps the free flow of oil in the piston area would aid in cooling but your point of view i would tend to agree with.
@@Forzaplayer Yes, oil squirters under the piston can definitely help with the cooling.
Nice KEF’s
Thank you. I have had them for decades....
I don’t believe tight is better. You need to leave a bit of movement so the fibres can absorb the sound.
Many different opinions on this subject. We will see how it sounds on fire up.
Nice work Paul! Where do you get your cable & outer jacket from? Looking for quality stuff to make my speedo, tack, push/pull throttle cables for a bike I am building. Cheers, Doug
Thanks. Someone else asked that question too. I got the inner cables at a swap meet many years ago. I also pick through my local cycle salvage shop for outer cable.
@@paulbrodie I did some surfing last night and "Venhill" sells alot of cable parts. The outer "jacket" is called conduit (didn't know that). Still looking for the "pin type" crimp-on ends that are used on the speedo/tach cables. Thanks for your reply, cheers, Doug
@@MegaCountach Ah, the Internet comes through! Feels good when you look for something and there it is...
👍👍
Good stuff as usual Paul. I'm still wondering why you always cut off pieces in the band saw rather than parting them off in the lathe? Did you have a bad experience doing this? I made a rear parting tool years ago and this changed my ability to part off in the lathe. Check out Geo Wright's version for a myford. Kind regards Trev-
Thanks Trevor. I just find it easier to cut off in the bandsaw. Nothing goes wrong. As you probably know, parting can go wrong. Sometimes quite drastically.
14:12 Actually I heard it should _not_ be too tight - too tight means less volumetric capacity for sound absorption..? Also a layer or two of stainless steel wool right against the perf pipe first for heat tolerance is supposed to help longevity... worth testing for differences??
Yes, there have been comments about those things you mentioned. I guess I could do some testing, but mostly I just want to go for a ride! Thanks for watching.
Where do you buy bulk cable supplies to make your own brake and clutch cables ?
Look online. I got mine years ago at a swap meet.
Are you sure you will be able to clamp the triple tree suficiantly with the delrin spacer?
Pretty sure, but we will do a Torque Test just to make sure.
Anyone who tries stuffing my muffler is gonna get one hell of a slap. 😳
Can Paper tape be burnt by exhaust gas and has a strange smell lol