Assembling a Tiger Cub Flywheel // Paul Brodie's Shop
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- Опубліковано 29 жов 2024
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#flywheel #tigercub #triumph #fussyframebuilder
Paul, I enjoy watching you work. I grew up with a machine and balancing shop in my basement. My father even balanced the transmission on the lunar rover. Spent most of my life balancing and blueprinting engines.😊
Thats definitely a hands on class Id attend right there. That particular skillset is one of the ones that separates engine builders from engine assemblers.
Thanks Glen.
I've done several crankshafts like that and it's is very time consuming and aggravating, you made it look easy 👍. The idea of using a wedge is a great idea, thanks.
It is time consuming, so you have to have patience! Thanks for watching.
See reply above
Brillant work!. You have the patience of a rock awaiting its trip to the sea
Thank you very much 🙂
It was about 1964 when I changed my first crankpin on a Cub no handbook just a big Sweeney and Blocksidge had/fly press and a try square. A Blue and White Cub with alloy guards and an energy transfer system no battery, a nightmare to ride in the dark. A pig to start but loved it.
Thanks for commenting.
Right on time, guys.
Great episode, in the Tiger Cub story. really well explained thank you.
Thanks Mick.
Really well done guys.
Can’t wait to see the new seat when it’s done. I really like the shape you’re going for.
Thank you G Man.
this reminds me of work I've done on harley flywheels (the school i went to had these old jigs we put them into and to adjust we hit them with a lead hammer)
I've never seen how this was done. Thanks for the insight.
Thanks for watching.
I had a cub more than sixty years ago. I rebuilt it into what would now be called a cafe racer. It had a plain journal big end bearing which was changed the a roller. The flywheel assembly was rebalanced, can't remember the ratio. The inlet valve was increased in size so was the inlet port which was polished. The cast iron inlet guide was shorted and an Amal carb put on it. The camshaft was replaced with a high lift longer duration sports cam and a 10 to 1 piston fitted. That bike used to fly. The 250 cc 2 stroke Arial Arrow couldn't catch it. I won't say what speed it did down a slight incline because you won't believe it, but I was expecting the con rod to let go any minute, it didn't. Not the most fuel efficient though.. love your videos, brings back lots of memories..
Fred, you have some cool memories! Thanks for sharing.
I made a fixture when I did the BSA crank, still had a little bit of truing to do. I have a lead mallet which was originally for tightening the nut on sports car wire wheels.
That tool illustrated in the Haynes manual is the Triumph special tool for assembly and disassembly of the flywheel.
Best wishes, Dean at Retromeccanica, UK.
Thanks Paul, Thanks Mitch
And thank you.
Good afternoon! Very satisfied with the process. Have a nice weekend!
Thank you.
Thanks Paul, You made that look easy, obviously you have setup flywheels a few times before! Many people have had to knock them back and forth
to get them right. You are truly an old school fitter/engineer. You could go beyond what is needed and have it dynamically balanced? No, only joking!
Chris you are correct. No need for dynamically balancing! 😉
Oh, nice,... .001" is super. When I first saw a crank like this being assembled and trued, it was so educational, on a Matchless G2CS 250 I owned, a persistent crankpin breaker..!! The old timer who rebuilt it had a truing stand and final adjustments to alignment were done with holding the flywheels in his hand and he smacked the one needing to move with a lead hammer and then rechecked. Method stayed with me throughout my career as a mechanic myself.
Yes, it's probably getting harder to find someone who knows how to do flywheels.
I just worked on my BSA B40 today… to make it ready for the nicer weather. I’ve put on a new rear tire, replaced the broken kickstart return spring and made up new brake- and clutch cables. Damn it felt good to be back in the shed and as the cherry on top Mr. Brodie uploaded a new Tiger Cub video. Thanks Paul and Mitch :) keep up the great work!
Thank you. That's great you're in the shop working away.
I like it.
You sir are an excellent teacher. You patiently explain the what and the why that only comes with experience.👍🏍
Thank you Bud.
Nice press. Also, I like your idea of aligning the flywheels before the pin is all the way in. Good idea. 😎
Always trying to make my job easier :)
Thanks Paul & Mitch! I noticed that you answered my question already - Alan asked about the aluminum plug. "Great show!" BTW, really like the seat form. Final product should look great and be pretty comfortable!
Thank you Tom.
Another fan of the Swiss army knife is Allen Millyard but he uses mostly the scissors.
I have heard of Allen Millyard. He dabbles in motorbikes I believe... 😉
Perfection, mate. I've come to expect nothing less!!!!
No pressure, right?
Always enjoy watching you Paul.
Glad to hear it. Thanks David.
Thanks, I learned a lot from this video
Thanks for watching.
That is going to be a good looking seat. I really like the shape of the pan You made. Sporty... 😎👍
Thanks Robert 👍
My grandsons and I enjoy your videos a lot. You are a great illustrator/teacher. I'm in the process of rebuilding a Vincent crank now. How do you keep such a clean shop, I'm jealous.
Thanks for liking our videos. The shop elves come out at night and work their magic :)
I replaced so many crank bearings on two-strokes in the seventies and eighties, maybe have done a single one since!
Same here, worked in a Suzuki/Kawasaki shop. Quite a few TM 125s redone much as what Paul showed here. They didn't have stepped crankpins. I once owned a Matchless 250 G2CS and it's stepped crankpin was prone to breakage at the step.
Thanks for the knowledge might not ever pay someone to do this again got a south bend lathe and a press
Thanks Mark. You just have to take your time and have patience.
Another perfectly executed video by the builder and the videographer. Will you show the balancing process Mr. Brodie? I sure would appreciate seeing how you go about it. I just sent off my sons 07 KX250 crank out for a complete work over.
Thanks Rick. This flywheel was balanced at the factory, so I will leave it at that. There is no sense changing the balance factor before the bike has run. It is probably just fine as it is. We will balance a new Excelsior flywheel soon though.
Should have called it 'Precision Beating a Tiger Cub crank'
Pretty amazing you can still get a NOS crank-pin and rod assembly!
I use a log splitting wedge as well as a spacer wedge, that way you can have crank in vice with some pressure and use wedge to open the' tight side'
Japanese cranks almost always have a parallel crank pin so need a little more care to maintain clearance and not crush bearing cage
"Yoda's BFF
1 day ago
I've done several crankshafts like that and it's is very time consuming and aggravating, you made it look easy 👍. The idea of using a wedge is a great idea, thanks."
If you went to MMI Orlando in early 2000's, Ed Sherbet or I would have taught you to do cranks that way, precision beating with a lead hammer.
Polaris cranks are probably most difficult as they need around 15 tons or more to take apart and put together, Yamaha normally around 6 tons, Honda can be very variable, 1.5 to 7 tons, Suzuki 4~6 ton
The NOS crank pin and rod came with the Cub package of 2 frames 4 motors I purchased last year. Who knows when it was purchased from the factory?
Stellar content.
Thank you again so much Paul and Mitch for sharing these journeys.
Cheers !
Thanks Jason. Our pleasure!
Nice vid. I got a bit new knowledge, thanks!
I'm not looking forward to this process on our '56 Tiger Cub restoration. Working on a very early cub, round head, small flywheel that has been run with low/no oil. Lots of problems. Good news is the whole engine seems very low miles.
I wasn't aware they used needle/cylinder bearings on the big end of the rod. Thanks for these excellent videos. Especially thankful for the mistakes. Students really should see the grace and forgiveness one can give when mistakes are made. Good for you, good for them.
Thanks Jon. The later flywheels and rods were definitely better than the early flywheel and rods...
Love this precise content! Thank you for sharing...
Will we ever get to see the surface grinder in action?
Best from Sacramento
Thanks Marcos.No idea when the surface grinder will see some use.
Great job great videos!!!!! You definitely made it ez to understand. Have a nice weekend
Thank you Eric.
@@paulbrodie most welcome
Pumped to see some balancing!
This crank was balanced at the Triumph factory, so I'm going to leave it like it is. It is not a race bike.
I'm sure, though correct me if I'm wrong, there was a factory bullitin about the use of a hammer to assemble the crank, it wasn't a ball pein though it was a sledgehammer.
Haynes of course says a meat tenderiser will do the job.
I have no idea about that!
I’ve always wondered how motorcycle cranks were assembled.now I know. Another awesome video,Paul!
Thanks Michael. Watch some Allen Millyard videos. He's very good at Japanese crank assembly.
@@paulbrodie My thumb(s) hurts just reading this! Allen is a wizzard though and so are you.
Just thinking of Kentucky windage from the balance holes in the crank halves as they grab oil and sling it.
Somehow I have heard of that.
Perfect
Luckily a 9 Pound Hammer was a little too heavy... The seat plug is looking good. This is going to be a very pretty and well sorted bike. All perfectly explained and executed. And perfectly filmed. Thankyou, sirs. (There would have been a guy or two in Coventry back in the day doing this day in, day out, year round. They probably got it down to 5 minutes. 'Bollocks to it' sounds quite nice in a Cov accent)... Keep yourselves well.
9 pound sounds like a sledge hammer
@@paulbrodie Do you not know that song? Merle Travis? When the glass fibre business failed a friend and I formed a band playing stuff like that in and around Hackney. (North east London). You're bringing back memories, Paul. Half a lifetime ago... You have a fine sound system in your shop, I've noticed. Dial up some Merle. He wrote 16 Tons, Nine Pound Hammer and Dark As A Dungeon all in one week. The Paul Brodie of songsmithing...
@@billdyke9745 I Googled Merle Travis. Never heard of him. Not into Country music, sorry.
Hi Paul and Mitch from the UK 🇬🇧
Hi Paul in the UK!
Damn Paul is one of those guys who's just like....Ok I can figure this out....and he does.
I just never give up. Thanks for watching!
Interesting!
Lead hammer is the preference for assembly and truing. Myself, I have a lathe to check for true. It takes time to do it right and you do it well. And I do realize you are from Canada but it's pronounced aermacchi. You don't pronounce the Mackie. It's Italian made not made in Finland. And I have watched many of your videos on frame building. I do own 1 Harley 1 Norton Commando s 1 BSA and 1 67 Ducati Diane 250cc.
As far as my credentials. I spent three years taking every course at MMI Phoenix not to mention being in the motorcycle business for over 10 years as a certified technician. But many years before that working on my own motorcycles and making mistakes. I did it wrong first and had to go to school to find out how to do it right. So anyway keep up the good work the videos are very informative and instructional. And I will promise not to nitpick on anyting as long as you stop saying aira Maki
Heh, some assemblage of fellas coming here to watch Paul do the magic on flywheels and other stuff. I recall Ducati's had a clean out trap in their flywheels too, Dianas were a fave of mine along with Parillas. Quite advanced that Hondas had centrifugal oil filters in the early '60s, all the bikes of that era sure could have used some filters before being trapped in the flywheels.
Thanks Lance. When I got into Aermacchis I did quite a bit of research into the pronunciation of the name. I ended up talking to a gentleman who lived very close to the Aermacchi factory. He told me how it was pronounced back then, and I believe him. Anyway, you knew exactly what I was referring to. Word semantics.
Great episode, the truing process was very informative and entertaining.
It is unfortunate the paint melted on the frame. Too late now, but in the future a couple spray layers of PVA would have protected the paint from the resin, and you can remove the PVA with water.
Thank you Dennis.
Awesome work Paul and Mitch! I always learn something from your videos. Than you!
Thank you Robert.
nice job, you are an artist :)
Thank you so much 😀
Thanks Paul & Mitch! I assume the plug in the end is for the oil system?
Thanks Alan. Yes, the aluminum plug is to make the oil feed into the crankpin.
@@paulbrodie will banging that plug in not upset the alignment you just did ?
@@wippy748s No. Did you see how I set the top flywheel on top of a 3/8" flat bar held in the vise? I would not risk changing the alignment.
Paul's famous quote "that's a good fit" I would expect nothing less from his capable hands.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
never had to straighten one but I've checked them for straightness a couple of times. seeing you do the whole procedure takes the mystique out of it and makes it do-able. some of the stuff in those reasonably priced manuals is laughable but I think they are aimed at the guy working in his driveway on the weekend.
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the interesting video. How is crank balancing done? I've been using bead-balanced tire inner tubes last few years on my two motorcycles ('74 Norton Commando and modern Triumph Bonneville) with great results (no more lead weights stuck to rims and paying the shop for balancing). Was wondering if something similar to bead balancing has ever been used on engine crankshafts? Perhaps some sort of steel tube attached to the flywheel, small ball bearings free to circulate within to achieve perfect balance at all rpms?
Thank you. Crank balancing is a mystery to most people, and I used to be included in that group. It involves weighing the piston assembly, the small end of the rod, figuring out the balance factor in %, then checking the flywheel and drilling away the excess until it comes into balance. I have no idea if bead balancing has ever been used to balance flywheels.
Brilliant video, I’m going to do my crank next week! Hopefully it will go as smoothly as yours 🤞
Thank you SingleCab 71. It is satisfying when they come true. You just have to have a bit of patience.
@@paulbrodie patients is something I have plenty of 👍
@@singlecab7142 Then you must be a Doctor.
As usual, another great video from you guys..... I wish I could do an apprenticeship w/ you and learn how to do stuff like this. 😁
By watching our videos you are learning!
@@paulbrodie - Definitely learning but I'd like to actually build something and learn that way.... It's just easier for me to learn by doing it so I need to get some stuff and start practicing, like a welder and pieces of metal and re-watch some stuff.
@@xpndblhero5170 That sounds like a very good idea. Hands on.
Another great video. I'm so happy I found out your channel 😁✌️. Grande Paolo continua così! 🙏🏼🤩
Thanks for watching and commenting :)
it went well coz you had an old bloke working on a old bike thats a good fit
I’ve never rebuilt a crank.... yet! I wonder how much fiddling a twin would take?
Watch some Allen Millyard videos. He does 3 and 4 cylinder cranks, even a V8 I believe. He's very good with a hacksaw too.
I got a bit lost when you got to the big pinch in the vise. And if you started with ten thousanths run out on one side how did that get fixed? Just pushing things around did it? What was the last piece for too? Plug an oil gallery? I am doing 1917 and 1920 Harley flys now as we speak. Precise stuff!!! Thanks, Thailand Paul
Surely that’s an Alpha big-end assy? Cubs as standard had a bushed big-end as far as I know. So is the aluminium plug part of the oil-supply mods needed with an Alpha conversion? Thanks for another very interesting video Paul and Mitch. It took me back to days of stripping and reassembling my BSA C15 on my Mum’s dining table (really!) along with my mate Pete and his Lambretta engine. My poor mother!! Les in UK
Thanks Les. It might be an Alpha big end, no idea. It came with all of the Cub stuff I bought.The aluminum plug is for all flywheels to get the oil to flow into the crankpin.
No workshop would be complete without a Swiss army knife 👌
So true.
Be sure to remove the slotted galley plug on the right side fly wheel and clean out the sludge trap.
I tried to get it out with an impact screwdriver but it's been in there for 55 years and it resisted my attempts.
@@paulbrodie I agree with Compcorvair13, Sludge trap will likely never been cleaned out, so even if the screw needs drilling out, it needs to be checked and cleaned. Hopefully some heat will help, but I've done loads and never had one that didn't need cleaning out, Regards.
@@paulbalsillie895 The oil passage is clear, and this will never be a high mileage bike, so it will be fine. Thanks for commenting.
very intresting
Are the main journal shafts pressed on too?
Yes, it is all pressed together.
The volatiles from polyester resin will pass through cling film (saran wrap) also sodon't waste yout time trying it !
I couldn't find my plastic roll, so I used a paint drop sheet with plastic on one side. Obviously a mistake!
Love the vids thank you. Do you cover optimum room size or ratios anywhere please? I will be building an extension so I have the option to change size now easy. I would be looking to seat 6 people. Cheers
Russ, thanks for liking our videos. Optimum room size or ratios? I really have no idea what you are talking about.
@@paulbrodie hah sorry Paul, much as I do love all your vids that comment was actually meant for a home cinema video I was watching! All the best, can't wait to see the bike finished.
When I was spending all my spare time at the motorcycle shop in the late “50”s didn’t the first Cubs have a plane bearing on the rod big end ? Good videos
Thanks Mike. I don't know if the rod had a "plain" bearing, but the flywheel had a bronze bushing on the right side. That was a weak point for sure.
Yes, they did have a plain bearing as did he first BSA C-15s. Didn't take long for those to break down. So glad to see Paul's rod assembly had a proper needle/roller one, much superior.
It was the late square fin barrel that was fitted with the roller - certainly the 67 Cub had them
That was brilliant ! (Even if I didn’t understand exactly the goal of squeezing the flywheel in the vice 😞…)
The 2 flywheels are running concentric, but not evenly. Carefully squeezing them can make them run true. Make sense?
@@paulbrodie Yes ! And I've watched (two times) carefully the vid, and your explanation about the forces. OK now, thanks Paul.
@@tetrakite Great. It's not always easy understanding engine stuff.
@@paulbrodie For sure. I've a little knowledge, as I was an off road racer in a previous life (and, also, MTB rider) and was servicing my bike myself as much as possible. I had to dismantle all the motor once, because I had washed the bike (a KTM 360cc 2 strokes) and forgot to seal the air intake… And I didn't start the bike after that as I was doing every time. What a douche ! The flywheel bearings rusted, and I had to replace them the week after. But I let a mechanic do the rod needle bearing.
When I was 25, I was subscriber of "MTB Action" bought in the US, it was the beginning of Mountain Biking in France… And I was looking to your bikes with envy ! (even if my pinnacle was the full suspended "San Andreas" a bit later)
Now, I can watch you making nice things, it's so great and impressive… Thanks !
@@tetrakite Thank you Thierry :)
Did you clean out the sludge trap in the timing side flywheel?? Bound to be full of engine debris??
I couldn't get it out, I made sure the oil passage was flowing well, this is never going to be a high mileage engine, and I promise never to let the oil get dirty. With centrifugal force, nothing comes out of that trap anyhow.
I just can't get over how you basically need a hammer to build a motorcycle engine, I build car type engines, and a hammer is the last needed, I still can't believe the cranks survive what they do! But I have a scooter engine I'd like to build, I want to make it a two cylinder, starting from a 39mm bore/ 49cc engine, use a big bore kit. With 52.4mm bore, with 41 mm stroke, x2 approximately 88cc per cylinder, or with the striker crank. Around 96cc, with larger valves, ported head, 'Heads' well they would be welded together! I'm thinking maybe the cylinders could be kept separate, but either way, I'd like to tap the oil passage, to run it through a cooler before going into the heads, would machining the cooling fins down, and closing them in, to convert to water cooled, be too much? I wonder if a high volume oil pump could be made using two pumps, and a bit of machining, surely I could get 12 HP from near 200cc, I'd want extra oil volume. Because there is more area to pump oil into, I thought about using the cam as an oil passage, to oil the lobes, with the 81cc engine I have now, with cam, large valves ported, exhaust and larger carb, it started with 3hp+/-, surely it's making 5 maybe 6 HP now, but double cylinders doubles firing events per. RPM! So wouldn't that make more power? Sorry to ramble, but I didn't even mention what I was going to ask to begin with! 😆 Haha, but the cranks, balancing, does the piston weight effect Ballance that much? In car engines, we always put light pistons on heavy rods, and vice versa.. always had the machine shop handle the balancing , but I'm hoping I can get rid of the vibration, even if I don't build the 2cylinder, I'd like to balance it so I'd feel better about revving it to 10k maybe 11k, I can hit 9500 easy, not 10k starts to worry me, originally 8500 is it, peak power anyway, but I have seen 10350rpm, I heard ppl turning 11k- great video..
I think you should check out Le Dan UA-cam channel. He does a lot of interesting engine builds with not much tooling. Yes, piston weight always has an effect. Changing pistons might mean more vibration, sometimes less...
Had you thought about putting a TIG tack weld in to lock it in place? I know they do it on high HP applications.
What are we locking in place? I'm not sure...
@@paulbrodie The crank pin to the counterweights.
@@michaelmathews295 If you Tig tack the crankpin to the flywheel that is going to be a bitch to get apart. I can't see myself doing that..
I wonder what the part number is for the roller big end, my parts book only shows a bushing on my 65 square head.
Hi Paul Wednesday 2nd March U.K. came and went and no Vid ?. Hope we are not asking too much ,two vids every 7 days . Look forward to Piston been fitted and maybe you can show us all how to make billet buttons or Teflon ones on the lathe. stay safe .
I was not well so we had to skip Wednesday, sorry. We are back to filming again :)
After you got the fly wheel aligned, it looked like while you were spinning it the gap between both plates was inconsistent. Was this in fact true or was it due to inconsistencies in the milling of the plates themselfs causing it to only look that way?
The gap is inconsistent. It opens up around the crankpin area. You are not going crazy!
I was wrong in my first reply. The inside faces are consistent with the outside faces. I was going by memory, and when I actually looked... sorry. Maybe the rod was casting a shadow as the flywheels turned in the lathe? Who knows?
Paul, is that rubber wheel you had on the die grinder a Cratex abrasive? Looking for similar, looks like 2 1/2" dia.
I have no idea, sorry. I worked in a machine shop in 1976 and that's where it came from. I think the OD is about 1.25"
How much pressure did it take to press the pin back in?
I want a pressure gauge on my press, but I do not yet have one. If I had to guess, I would say 2 tons.
Are you ever gonna build a bike frame again, motor or pedal?
Probably.
👍👌
Chris!
Was the pin to block the oil gallery up? Also hitting the end ov the crank is going to throw the crank out again?
Yes, the alloy pin closed off the oil gallery. Look closely in the video... I rested the upper flywheel on 3/8" flat bar, so there was no way the flywheels would shift no matter how hard I hit.
@@paulbrodie ahh ok I didn’t see the flat bar 👍 enjoyed all these videos
How about the sludge trap, did you clean it out?
Not yet.
10:11, 18:47 I need to brush up on my compilation editing...
Hello...👍👍😃😃
Hello.
😎✌️
Probably better than when it left the factory…
How can the Haynes manual be wrong?
My mate Gromit, who used to work as a motorbike mechanic, always refers to Haynes as "The Book of Lies" ! ; )
Been using your CarboArD technique on a cargo Ebike prototype recently Paul...what's your distance consultancy day rate for a poorly paid UK bicycle mechanic?!
I know Haynes is not great, but it's fun to refer to it for the videos. What my consultancy day rate? I suggest you buy me and Mitch a BUNCH of coffees!
Assemble the "ENGINE".
That sounds like an order.
@@paulbrodie Your knowledge and experience are greatly appreciated. Some day in the distant future, vintage motorcyclists may need to repair their motors, but for now I'm glad that engines need our attention!😁
@@hillarylevenworth8824 So, you are riding a enginecycle. Steamengine maybe..
@@hillarylevenworth8824 I think you are getting hung up with word semantics. Frankly, I think you are wasting your time.
Mr Brodie, Hillary was correct, the proper term for what you were working on is an engine. I don’t think she was giving you an order.
Brand new 55 years old, hahaha
Crankshaft not flywheel
Here we go, getting into word semantics again. Do you really think that a word has the same meaning in every country of the world?
P
First again!