War in Ukraine: is a peace deal possible?
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2024
- As negotiations between Russia and Ukraine continue, our experts discuss what conditions might encourage both sides to lay down their weapons-and how likely a peace deal really is.
00:00 - War in Ukraine: when will there be peace?
00:37 - What would a peace deal involve?
02:30 - What will happen to Ukrainian territory?
04:29 - What is the perspective from the Russian side?
08:04 - Is Putin’s legitimacy weakening?
Find all our coverage on the war in Ukraine: econ.st/3hHrkS5
War in Ukraine: how far will Putin go? Watch here: econ.st/3w9pkKP
Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is wrecking two countries: econ.st/3HOrFNe
A new world order? econ.st/3txJFYy
Hundreds of thousands face catastrophe in Mariupol: econ.st/3ir8rmz
Ukraine fights on: econ.st/3ttyZtU
How Russian propagandists turn on pro-Western “traitors”: econ.st/3D3txkn
Exodus: the four kinds of Ukrainian refugee: econ.st/3Iqfbff
Why Z is for Putin: econ.st/3txJo7X
Writers have grappled with Vladimir Putin for two decades: econ.st/3twwuXC
A peace deal cannot be cut with an enemy that has done this to you. This is not the first time Russia has done this. Ukraine will never be one with Russia again.
Ukraine will not be allowed to shell Eastern Ukrainian Russians ever again. 8+ years with Nato doing nothing will not be tolerated. Europe will have to buy gas in rubles IF Russia allows them to buy it at all.
@@gcoffey223 No problem, bye bye Russia.
@@gcoffey223 Russia will not be allowed to have an economy larger than Canada’s ever again…..oh wait, they were doing that by themselves anyways
@@gcoffey223 Russian people wanting to move to the US, which is what many of them do and have been doing, will have a much more difficult time for the foreseeable future.
But hey!..There’s always Beijing!
Chechnya is doing well with Russia after the 2nd Chechen War
Lower the price of the magazine please.
I hope things gets better, feel so sad for the lives of the civilians out there. 🥺
They're real heroes....
Maybe if the Asov fascist filth allowed them to leave through the Russian humanitarian corridors there will be far less pointless deaths.
I feel so sorry for the civilians of Donetsk who were bombed by the Ukrainians
Maybe some decade we will learn that defense spending beyond territorial defense and minimal credible nuclear deterrence is a total waste of money.
@gnorweb Only necessary if you plan on going on the offence (which no nation should want to do, except for the US which has decided to be a democratic hegemon). Russia has demonstrated that underfunding a large military for offensive capabilities doesn’t benefit them in invading a country with a well trained defensive one.
This is overly simplistic. If Ukraine wasn't being supplied with vast amounts of high tech weaponry from other nations this war could very well be going much worse for them. And the only way those weapons are able to be sent to them is because of defence spending over and above territorial defence and nuclear deterrence as you said
@@a1176789 Even without the current western equipment, Kyiv still wouldn’t have fallen. Much more of Ukraine would have though
Get used to the idea that Russia should lose this war and that the sanctions against Russia will stay in place for decades. It's not about punishment, it's about safety for Ukraine but also for Europe.
Sorry to point out but Russia won't lose and this will end in a brutal stalemate. A peace deal is the ideal way
@@cosmokramer5366 even so, the Russian assets should be used as reparations and the sanctions should remain in place
Id be willing to lift all sanctions to Russia is they remove all troops for Ukraine (including Crimea), Moldova and Georgia, with those countries in full country of their sovereign borders, they would be allowed in the EU & NATO
@@kylefisher1458 intriguing but improbable. Also, the sanctions should be kept not so much as a form of punishment, but as a way to weaken Russia. It has done enough to signal that it is the enemy of the EU and the US. There is no point in strengthening the enemy economically. If the enemy sounds too harsh still, think of adversary, opponent, etc...
Like the US has sanctioned Cuba off the face of the earth. Bye Russia, it was nice knowing you briefly
I hope Ukraine will not be sold. Real Peace can exist when Russia takes its forces out of Ukraine
Wonderful contributions, thank u 👏
Such an interesting interchange among you four! I could have listened for an hour.
It did go on for an hour, it's on The Economist website, you need a subscription though.
I'm sorry but what is the source of such an affirmation in 2:15? First time I heard it
Maybe when Russian losses hit 30,000 so we are about half way there
It will only make the peace deal more difficult. Russia may end up bombing Kyiv to rubbles.
@@cosmokramer5366 Not unless Ukraine keeps pushing Russia further away from the city.
100,000....I like round numbers
Lol they are Russians.
They can sustain 1 million if they have to .
@@KillerofWestoids sad to say, but russian military forces now searching for every volunteer, earlier they said this war only for “trained militaries”. There was a case where a 17y.o boys were send to the war
The military industrial complex finally has some big orders on the horizon I’d say.
You got that right.
Disappointing opinion, indeed.
@@GabrielSchlaefer it’s not wrong though.
There is a very old saying; you should let a defeated enemy carry away as much face as possible just as long as they carry away nothing else. You cannot give a bully a payoff for their messed up behavour. Not one millimeter of Ukrainian territory should be surrendered. The only thing Putin should take away from this invasion is the bitter taste of ashes.
Not possible, unless you obliterate Russia
Russia should suffer from a least nuclear bomb as a suitable punishment.
Given the status of The Economist, audio quality should be greatly improved. Thank you.
My thoughts exactly! It really is a shame!
Definitely true. There are hundreds of UA-cam podcasts that do better audio.
A peace deal is defenitely impossible.Their points of view are much too far from each other
You are right 1 is Insane, Megalomania and blind
There can be no peace until the battle of the East has been fought. Both side expect / hope that it will go their way. The outcome of that battle will determine the flexibility of each party.
Will there be another podcast on Friday?
not one patch of Land ! and keep bombing those ships .
No, a peace deal is not possible.
Russia will require a regime change for that.
Gangrene is not something you 'make peace' with.
You cut it off.
I don't see Russia accepting anything less than Ukrainian capitulation and giving up the regions Russia wants. I doubt Ukraine will do that so I'd be very surprised if there's any positive outcome.
after Azov batalliion is destroyed in mauripol.. truce may happen
AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!
Peace is always possible
PEACE TO ALL.
Yes, of course.
I feel that as things stand "a peace deal" is never on the table to start with, Putin invaded a neighboring nation, a nation that had shown no aggression towards Russia at all, but that has been pushed and attacked over and over.
What we all need to see happen is a massive backward step by Putin and withdraw his invading army, stop all air operations, missiles attacks, and drone activity.
Then when the invader has left, Putin and all involved in any war crimes should be held accountable, during this stage Russia compensates family's of lost love ones, and rebuilds all infrastructure destroyed or damaged and compensates the Ukrainian Nation with ongoing payments
Russia being the aggressor has a limit placed on it's Defence force's with NATO, G7, and the EU having full access to ensure Russia never has the chance to attack any neighboring countries again
Only then would any peace talks or deals be possible.
Of course invading another sovereign state is wrong but are you sure about your first paragraph? I would ask that you dig a little deeper, you might be surprised.
Are you implying that Ukraine hasn’t been shelling ethnic Russian separatists in the Donbas for the last eight years?
Russia’s invasion might be wrong or a gross overreaction, but one thing it certainly is not is unprovoked. And there have been hints that this was coming for yeeeeaaaarrrrs.
@@deviationblue it’s russian deceitful propaganda. The whole world knows that It was proposed to introduce a peacekeeping mission 11 times since 2014. But every time only Russia imposed the right of veto. Russia deployed troops to Donbas in 2014 and sponsored the Seraratist movement and war. Stop spreading misleading information that putin’s slaves are trying to drill into mind of people with IQ +-40
Reading this has given me cancer, the stupidity behind those 2 paragraphs is mind-boggling.
Let's begin with the first paragraph, Ukraine has shown aggression against Russia in the form of media ever since the fall of the soviet union and Russia only started fighting back when Yankovic was taken down and Ukraine full on stated that they would cut off all relations to Russia, but that wouldn't have been enough for Russia to retaliate, since Russia could just turn east, but that was not the case since Ukraine went further, if they had just ignored eachother then that would have been ok, but Ukraine wanted to join nato and break their neutrality agreement with Russia and they also wanted to place nato missiles in range of Moscow and many Russian cities.
Now non of this justifies killing people but to say that there was no reason would be incredibly naive and down right bigoted, wars have started for lesser reasons such as the invasion of Iraq under the pretext of wmd's which 1-didnt exist, and 2-even if they did, what gives the US (the only country to use nukes against population centers, not once but twice against an enemy they had already defeated) the rights to say who should own wmd's and who shouldn't.
Went on a tangent, but the point is that most things in the world cannot bu justified due to ethical reasons, but they are done anyone, the world is messed up but what is more messed up is using double standards to only point out the misdeeds of one party and not look at the whole picture.
Why peace? The comedian is winning, and has not finished his global stand up tour of the world's parliaments.
U have to understand, that we are the last shield between u and russia. So helping us u help u
You, it's YOU.
Go ahead and type the extra two letters.
Why is that so hard?
I would look into getting some mics for your team. The content is often overshadowed by bad audio
No. MIC needs to sell weapons
Let's hope we can have peace for both sides
a peace deal is needed quickly, and reconstruction, and help for all the people that want to move back... those that are still alive...
"What would it take for both sides to put down weapons?" is the wrong question. We all want to know what it would take for Putin to put down weapons. These are not equal parties at the table; one is an agressor, the other rightfully defending itself. The leading countries have the power to stop this abuse and they should.
THANK YOU.
A clear-headed person in a sea of people who want peace at any price.
maybe us can stop to attack other nations?
@@jovanmitrovic8619 hopefully, yes. but showing a superpower failing will only make america less likely to try and invade somewhere else, especially after the failures in Afghanistan and Iraq. we need to stand against all war to ensure peace.
@@jovanmitrovic8619 that’s a hope as well. Seeing as the US had already been failing in some of those invasions, I’m hoping they’ll just put a stop to it altogether
No Nazis in Ukraine. Was that guy serious? There can't be any peace without Ukraine losing the Donbass and accepting Russian Crimea. Plus ending their Nato dreams.
When the KGB deems you lack empathy.
The Russian invasion of Afghanistan should have been a learning point in Russia’s weaknesses. One man’s power ambition doesn’t reflect the army readiness for war!
What about usa?
@@Kuziai yeah what about them? Free Chechnya, Kasachstan and Georgia. Leave Ukrainian territory recognised by the UN. Russia is AT LEAST as imperialistic as the USA. Check the book definition for imperialism, and while you’re at it, for fascism as well. There are no excuses for both countries to intervene in foreign affairs.
@@Kuziai Tu quoque, a typical logical fallacy...
@@manolopresas4799 they won in afghanistan?
@@Kuziai russias failure in Afghanistan was the reason the US had to go in.
What economists can possibly understand in politics? The same amount as comedian understand
Zanny recommend a book “Putin his own words”. I’m struggling to find it - can anyone confirm the name, author, publisher?
I have to disagree that demilitarisation has been achieved for russia. No doubt ukr will recieve an absolute ton of western weapons after this conflict... to include some very advanced and heavy equipment such as anti ballistic missile systems and modern anti aircraft systems. And the majority of ukr military strength is in the men and portable advanced weapons systems that can hit aircraft from 15,000 ft... indeed, ukr currently has such an anti air capability that Russia is only conducting stand off strikes mostly from Russian airspace.
Hopefully Putin doesn’t get any royalties from the book sale
Hope they're confiscated
YAY! The Economist!! So definitely no bias here then lol. =)
I mean great content but, its the economist.
You guys have enough budget for better audio / video quality right =/
The truth is totally twisted. How sad is Ukraine being used by America.
Drag Putin down from his throne, and hold him accountable. That's the only way to have peace.
People got beaten and jailed for every opposite opinion. If someone wanted to do that I won’t be surprised if they will shot in peaceful citizens
Very very bad analysis. The nuclear menance was really the lower point of this video.
Hope both countries give peace more chance and avoid human traffic that starts happening in Ukraine borders
Arkady does not seem to account the other factors that led to war.
Slava Ukraini
Give them nothing.
Take from them EVERYTHING!!!!
What do you think about the situation in the Donbass over the past 8 years?
Lifting of sanctions! Surely there will need to be a discussion about reparations.
"Nazis never existed in Ukraine". Really? I thought some did, sometime.
oh i've just come across some videos! was shocked!
A simple google search comes up with quite a few references, mostly from a few years ago.
That is ultra- nationalist or some such moniker.
Meet the Azov Batallion. Wikipedia will show you the true side of gov endorsed Ukranian butchers. The US knows about it too, it's disgusting. And now everyone's heart bleed for Ukraine bla bla bla... Since 2014 this has been a live war, nobody even knows where Ukraine is. All of a sudden everyone has their flag on their cars and windows. What a great a joke.
No war in the earth pls
Peace means I feed my family. Peace means my family drinks clean water. Peace means I love my neighbours. Peace is then I see my children sit in the sun. It's only happened when we work together.
lack of empathy... well that makes many things clear
Tho whole world needs Peace, whole world hurts. For what?
Peace now!
“Russia was not threatened by Nato.” Really? Then why station long range missiles into Poland?
The panelists did not mention "Reparations" as a condition for a peace deal. How to ensure that Russia funds the reconstruction of Ukraine? Enforcing that sort of agreement is also going to be difficult - unless, for example, Russia cedes its entire Black Sea military fleet to Ukraine, for a period of 20 years or so, and that fleet can enforce a tax on any Russian exports via the Black Sea ports.
What is likely to happen is that the Ukraine will sue Russia in international court and ask to seize Russian assets outside Russia to create a fund to rebuilding Ukraine. This is one of the reasons why the west has frozen Russian assets outside of Russia. No deal is needed to do this
@@ResidualSelfImage $284bn (nominal value of seized Russian assets) is probably about right for current damage inflicted to Ukrainian assets. The damage bill is likely to keep growing though.
5:30 speaking bs
When somebody wins, the fighting will end,
peace?
None gonna have it as long as they live, PTSD is a thing after all.
Nobody wins in a war other than the politicians.
People told us putin invade ukrain,but i think ukrain deserve it.the us is always being bossy.the nato makes the whole world messy
No war or invasion is deserved. Deserve is the language of hatred. Being human empathy is the first language we should learn when coming to this world. Btw, please improve your English and thinking process if you do want to offer some kinds of help here.
Where was the justice when US invaded İraq? Sorry it was busy (I do not say Russia is right in this war)
So lets agree to not offer what ppl wont
As fundamental free market say
We r waiting for u to prove us wrong
Bcoz the moment we r right
Is when u have nothing left :)
Fully disagree with the panalist named Arkady, What a nonsense analysis, perhaps he simply dislikes Putin or even Russia.
Let’s give the Ukraine armed forces time to keep on grinding the Russian army. As UK, US and Russian guarantees for the Ukraine were worth nothing- NATO membership is the only thing that is strong enough to deter Russia in the future.
Sanctions can be lifted partially after Russia fully withdraws and all the reparations have been paid, and Russian military power has been reduced
You want Russia to pay for it? How many countries are waiting for us to pay for our war crimes in many many countries?
@@gcoffey223 I don't know who you mean by "us". But the Russian assets frozen by now in the US and EU would go some way to compensate to Ukraine the damage inflicted by Russia
@@romailto9299 He's trying to pretend to be American or European. Russian trolls do that all the time, this one must have slipped through the cracks somehow.
@@romailto9299 I was an artist who didn’t pay taxes. I wanted to earn money and leave this country. Now I just trying not to eat a lot, just because people losing their jobs and there is no alternatives. Yes, Ukraine is in much worse situation but as a peaceful citizen I’m wondering what did I do to live in my country
@@SladkiyStream Russian citizens are responsible for their government. That's the reality of adult life
I agree with almost everything said here, but claiming that nazis never existed in Ukraine is a bit rich. There's no country without nazis. But of course, to claim that Ukrainian nazis are a threat to Russia's security is ludicrous and delusional. A country that sits on the largest nuclear arsenal in the world could not be threatened in a military sense in any way. It's mind-blowing that people supporting Putin don't realize this.
Hmmmm, I do not support war in any country, just FYI!
It is really mind blowing that countries that sit on largest nuclear arsenal in the world could be threatened in a military sense in any way.
A little more mind blowing is that this excuse has been used for more than past 20 years and UNO and almost all world has been supporting it and is still currently supporting it.
Well I think the argument (largely fabricated) was that they were doing something like ethnic cleansing in the eastern regions, not threatening Russia directly.
@FeelTheH8 Well, but then what is Russia doing in Ukraine? I mean, even if this was true, which Russia has never supplied evidence for... You don't invade a sovereign country just because you suspect there's ethnic cleansing going on. Has anyone invaded Myanmar? Although there was ample evidence of ethnic cleansing against Rohingya.
Just let the people of Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk ceceed already; it's what they want.
Their will should be ignored
Only if Putin is dead. It is the only scenario where Russia can blame everything on Putin, leave, apologize, and have a path to re-join the community of nations. Any other path leaves them a pariah nation for generations. A impoverished one at that.
I wanted to leave this country, but now I’m ashamed to even say from which country I came. Guess better option just stay here forever
I think this information might not be accurate.
“Nazis never existed in Ukraine “… give me a break
@K20 9310 read about the right sector in Ukraine. Neonazis overthrew the government in 2014... Read about battalion asov in Mariupol. I think when Neonazis overthrow a government, its not really democratic 🤔
I went to Ukraine and actually know about the history. Im also against Putin and this horrible war but you should really read more about the situation.
Why negotiate by conceding NATO before stepping to the table. It seems the Economist is negotiating preconditions for the Russians.
namo avalokites Vara..
namo ksittigarbha bodhisattva...
.for your mercy, your compassion to love human beings...pls rescue n protect ukrainean people n soldiers n leaders to be safe....pls punish putin to stop war ..the human beings have been too miserable with covid already, now with the war putin caused...
is a peace deal possible?
No, not with NATO in the picture.
if you want peace be ready for war.....slava ukraini
Leave that up to Russian’s President Putin.
Volodomir Zelenskyy needs to treat Putin the same as Will Smith did Chris Rock 🖐️
Putin may possibly apologise for any inconvenience caused. And we can all get back to our shopping.
Russia wasn't concerned about military threat from the West...? So they would have just been chill fine with missiles in Ukraine then...
What missiles? Who was proposing putting missiles in Ukraine?
@@bluecanary9417 if Ukraine had been admitted into NATO alliance, NATO puts missiles in their territory. It is one of the key points to which every NATO member agrees to when they decide to join.
@@manu9d5 Well that’s not true. But even if it were, and you haven’t specified what you mean by missiles, why didn’t Russia try to negotiate on the basis of agreements on missile deployments instead of all this ridiculous nonsense that Putin has been spouting?
Putin wants the Lithium!
No reasonable person can condemn Russia’s actions in Ukraine while condoning US/NATO actions in the Middle East or Israel’s apartheid actions against the Palestinians.
Wrong
I despise US/NATOs actions in the Middle East and Israel's genocidal approach towards the Palestinians. But these evils do not cancel out or lessen Putin's evils.
Right on
To the point
Hey don’t say it.
Remember, everything west does is ok but it’s wrong only when someone else does it.
Sorry but this guy is clueless and just plain wrong. “Demilitarization sort of has been partly achieved.” …. how could Ukraine be “winning” if it’s partly demilitarized? He doesn’t understand the mass flooding of weapons into the country over the last few weeks and how their army is comprised of paramilitary groups. This is what happens if a country is invaded, there’s no cease fire for civilians to evacuate, civilians are encouraged to take up arms, and then NATO floods it with weapons… Ukraine is extremely militarized. “There were never Nazis in Ukraine”.… delusional thinking.
All the panelists, except Arkady Ostrovsky, make a measured and insightful point about the conflict. But Mr. Ostrovsky sounds too shrill and highly opinionated to fit this discussion format.
Correction, what would it take for Russia to lay down its weapons.
Probably to keep fighting it until it gets tired. Just like what Afghanistan did to both the Soviet Union and the United States.
When Ukraine surrenders unconditionally.
This war should never have happened - it could gave been avoided
I would be happy to be born in Africa, rather then Russia, because in Africa you have much more possibility to earn money and move in whatever country you want. Life in Russia feels like in North Korea, but with internet
No peace.....
If Ukraine did that they just lost their land... along with 80% of their gas and oil...
Ukraine needs to focus on Crimea and the black sea....
Push south and to the south east...
It's ridiculous how propagandistic and misleading Arkady Ostrovsky comments are!
Shashank Joshi, может тебе напомнить такую страну как Югославия и что после призода туда американской демократии в видео крылатых ракет tomahawk и что потом с этой страной случилось. У вас видимо совсем короткая память, как у рыбки Дори или как у нас говорят куриная память, видимо уже совсем забыли
My opinion and I'm no expert, is that Putin has, to the Russian people anyway (not the west) be seen to have achieved something, but what and how?
It appears the the Ukrainian army is pushing the Russian army back but can they win? Given the Ukraine forces are doing so well, why would they concede any of their pre- 1991 territory?
So I think a possible solution is the two Donbass be given a certain level of autonomy within Ukraine, that Ukraine will have to, unpalatable as it is, cede the Crimea, because realistically they cannot take it back. And have a limit put on the size of Ukraine's armed forces.
That Ukraine will remain neutral, but be allowed join the EU (fast tracked) not NATO. Ukraine's security will be guaranteed by the EU, not NATO or the UK (which is not in the EU) NATO would get involved if Russian troops set foot on one inch of NATO territory.
Russia will pay reparations to rebuild Ukraine ( but a fudging of words will not mention reparation)
Sufficient sanctions will be lifted by the West to allow Russia to fund this.
The West will not give clemency to any war criminal and will arrest and try any war criminal who sets foot outside of Russia.
Democratic pressure from suffering countries will put an end to this war regardless of what zelenski says .
THIS IS WHY I BLAME UKRAINE'S PRESIDENT ZELENSKEY FOR THIS WAR.
If west will initiative. It can.
European suit boys didn’t understand that my government don’t understand “condemnation”…
They look only weak when choose only for words support…
:(((
Stay strong Ukraine😣
It is all about the missiles that can bring down russian nukes close to the silo's. He doesn't want them in ukraine. We do. War on.
Those are in Poland, not Ukraine.
Putler has no honor. No deal is possible.
Crimea and Donbas is why Putin invaded and you can deny it but cant change that fact.
Sure as long NATO leave Ukraine alone.
You've got it backwards. Ukraine's been begging to join NATO, not the other way around.
Ukraine is a soverign nation and has a right to do whatever they want without being questioned by Putin propagandists like yourself.
@@mr.g937 Will you happily let your neighbor stockpile tons of TNT in their house? Your neighbor got the right to do whatever in their house don't they? You are the real Hypocrite, Interest oriented, Double standard, Full of lies Western minded.
@@drew9221 It doesn't matter who begs or offers. Ukraine must remain neutral if its leader is wise enough. Choosing one side (NATO) means choosing the enemy (Russia) at the same time.
Hope not, been enjoying this
firstly western countries encouraged the ukrainian and then they did not prevent the this war . After russian invasion they made a lot of sanctions but this issue caoused some problems such as increasing inflation rate , cut off relaiton russian so chines is going to take control over russian .. I guess the last result will be big problem for the usa if the usa could have prevented this war probably only could get focus on pasific. it's too late now
Russia retreats from all occupied territories including Crimea and Ukraine accepts no offensive weaponry.
This is the only acceptable settlement for Ukraine considering the Russians are the aggressors and have reneged on all 4 of their 1991 agreements.
Peace is possible (if the USA gets TF out of the way).
Putinsland should be all of Europe .
and Ukraine is destroyed? the USA isn't going to fight Russia in Ukraine. we need to give Ukraine as much help as possible. turns imperialism is bad no matter who's doing it. maybe after all recent conflicts go badly for the superpowers they'll be less likely to start another one.
In Тѕаr Rυnt's tiny, shriveled heart and overinflated ego the Cold War never ended.