It's a good way to know the difference between a well educated person and a truly intelligent person. No truly intelligent person believes 9/11 was a conspiracy.
@@Maber01 people suggest "do your own research" bc that is the best way to guarantee someone will be uninformed. Peter Joseph relies on people not knowing that his claims are made up and have no standing whatsoever in order for them to be believed. What a liar
Wow I can’t believe the Gospel writers anticipated the invention of the English language centuries in advance and used it to craft their narrative based on a clever pun from the non-existent language. The Christians are truly naive!!
The claim Krishna was born of a Virgin always struck me as the true sign that someone really was just lying. Especially since Krishna’s OLDER BROTHER plays a major role in his story.
Ha! For me, I thought the Sun/Son claim was hysterically stupid and I also knew that Isis was no virgin after having sex with Osiris’ dismembered aaaaa … member.
@@tylergermanowicz5756 "Adam" was "A Damsel" in distress/pregnant virgin with THAT "sun" inside... And SHE WAS GOING TO HAVE TO "MATE" WITH "HIM" To "Continue Their Life Forms"... For EVER "More"... via "incest". It's just The Bible Story being told in a "more believable way".
Krishna’s brothers being in the story have no bearing on weather or not she was born of a virgin birth 😂 if you can have one you can have more than one these things didn’t literally happen
You’re just completely missing the point… It’s the fact that that story existed before Jesus and Christianity just completely stole that and added it to Jesus…
it also covers sovereign citizen crap if I recall. Even in my most militant atheist days I shot this junk down at every opportunity. They make the mistake of being a theme and thinking its like copying homework.
I was a teenager when that “documentary” was released, and it was one of many things that made me give up my presbyterian faith. Been struggling for over a decade with atheism, agnosticism, satanism, paganism, buddhism… and so on. But through the Holy Spirit, and apologists like Trent Horn, I’m coming back to the faith, but as a Catholic this time. So the “low hanging fruit” such as Mr. Horn’s video here debunks is far more important to refute than he gives it credit for.
Lol same Even though I didn't fall for satanism I was into paganism for a while. But something that saved me is that I already knew about Egyptian mythology when I watched the documentary so I detected the lies in Horus story and didn't keep watching, I don't live being lied to. I felt like the documentary was trying to gaslight me or something. I'm a Catholic as well, but I already was baptized and everything since my family is Catholic. Welcome home!!
The video may not be true. What is true, however, is that paganism/Roman beliefs had a great influence on the nationalized Christianity of the Roman period.
I genuinely had some woman tell me that her husband was a descendant to Mary Magdalene and this somehow proves that Jesus Christ is not God…. Many of these people are allergic to historical data and facts. I pray they see the truth
@@billcarson818It says Dyonisius was "the Alpha and the Omega", that Horus and Khrishna were born of virgins, etc. Lots of fake things about polytheistic gods.
What an excruciating "documentary." As a college instructor, sometimes the amount of misinformation (or disinformation) that is dumped in my lap is so fatiguing that I want to throw up my hands. Great job staying methodical and charitable, Trent.
As a college professor what do say when someone debunks an argument without looking at the footnotes for the argument. For example, Zeitgeist has 197 footnotes, and this man did not look at 1 of them. I say Grade: F
@@Maber01 The people watching the movie are for the most part just seeing these scenes, which are presented as factual. Many students do the same thing, they write a paragraph in a way that sounds truthful, or has one citation, and then move on to the next point. Regardless of footnotes, Zeitgeist is clearly intended to deceive and misinform.
As a college instructor you should/would know that zeitgeist wasnt a documentary. Funny how people just throw words around without knowing the meaning of them.
Jesus died on a cross. The cross was made of Mahogany. "Mahogany" ends with "Y", which translates to "why?" in Hebrew. Every time a husband cheated on his wife in the ancient Israel, the wife would say, "Why!?" Adding all of these evidences, we can conclude Jesus was a woman. Prove me wrong, Mr. Trent!
I was so dejected after watching this several years ago. Thankfully the Holy Spirit had a tight grip on me as this would have challenged my faith. Thank you for exposing the ridiculousness of the arguments, you are a gift to the Church!
It's weird to assume different tribal groups separated by thousands of miles, sometimes hundreds of years, and language barriers would know anything about one another's mythology, let alone copy them.
Especially for the Israelites, who rejected paganism. They wouldn't have had anything to do with the zodiac, let alone try and copy it. The producers of zeitgeist obviously weren't concerned about the viewers who would know better - they're after all those "enlightened" folks who've been taught that anything religious is bad and consequently never learned the first thing about Christianity.
For sure. Like it's far far more likely that what is really happening with these different stories and mythologies having similar themes is that is comes out of a common human nature, psychology, and spiritual longing. Like with Mayans and Egyptians both building pyramids and having some similar rituals and civilizational structure. The alternative explanation that they were both instructed to do these things by aliens is laughably less likely than the case I just presented.
@@AjaxNixon that’s what I always thought too! Similar psychology and propensity to worship, and universal moral understandings are inherent in all humanity across tribes and cultures. It makes complete sense why certain themes and dichotomies exist in many religions. All religions are grasping for the same truth but ultimately only one has the fullness of it ;).
@@AjaxNixon Exactly. They have to make the plagiarism argument because they don't want to contend with the possibility that these different cultures are all catching glimpses of the same transcendent truths.
It is not weird if the stories are based on the same astronomical event. We know with great certainty that many of the ancient cultures were well aware of the Galactic Alignment of 2012. So one would look at the Winter Solstice of 2012 and see how many stories you could write from that astronomy. However, in the case of Shakespeare's Mid Summer Night Dream you have to look at June 20th, 2012. The Summer Solstice. But is digress. The key to knowing the year 2012 is the eight spoked wheel seen in the Lost Book of Nostradamus, Sumerian Seals, The Egyptian Pyramids, and St. Peter's Square. And let's not forget Wonder Woman's head dress. "The Scorpio and the Wolf must hunt".
My brothers showed me zeitgeist over ten years ago, because of their disbelief and my great faith at that time. Unfortunately at the time I allowed it to doubt my faith and my life changed for the worse during this period. Since then I’ve regained much faith, and this rebuttal helped, but also reminded me of a time I wish I had back to glorify God instead of what actually happened.
I'm an atheist, and had studied ancient religions before, so when Zeitgeist came, I knew it was a bunch of BS. The rebuttal of Zeitgeist is accurate, but it's not evidence that "God exists", but that misinformation can come from both ends.
It's so good to be christian. The peace of conscience is great. When I was agnostic, life was totally without sense and I used to live to please my desires, like a dog or another brute animal, but when you convert, it's interesting how everything changes.
You just had a poor moral compass and needed religion to guide you or rather the key figures in your life didn't teach you right from wrong, you got bored of doing the things you did and you matured. It's not rocket science😂. I've been a atheist since I was 14, I'm 29 now and stoicism has been my moral guide. No religion needed, no drugs, no gangs, no violence etc. I just knew right from wrong, it's pretty simple for me but most people need religion I suppose, and I get it
@@dripfoe_3307 If you’ve read much Stoic literature you’ll have noticed that there’s quite a lot of references to God and providence. Greek philosophy in general was at the very least theistic and Stoicism was no different. Without the underlying theistic metaphysics the conception of virtue loses its meaning. If you lose the idea of a creator and therefore a created order then you lose the idea of a human telos and therefore the virtues which help us to achieve eudaemonia. So it’s interesting to hear atheists talk about Stoicism and ethics as though you can disentangle the morality from the metaphysics and theology.
@@EVSmith-by9no such a lame ignorant argument. I'm theistic but some of the most virtuous people I've known have been agnostic/atheist. You don't need to be religious or believe in God or an everlasting afterlife to be virtuous and have morals. If you only have morals to avoid hellfire, that actually shows lack of character, looking out for yourself, selfishness, the opposite of virtue. And let's be real. Most religious people today are good to avoid hell for the most part. And to pass the judgement day. Fear is the great motivator, even though it's claimed to be love.
Thank you Trent, I remember watching this when I was 18-19years old and I attribute this and my lack of knowledge to my push back from God. I came back to my faith and only wish I wasn’t naive to fall for this early in life. Thank you again, I’ll be sharing 🙏🏽
I did the same...but I was raised non-religious, and saw it as more evidence of how ridiculous religion was. Was baptized and confirmed in to the Catholic church in June :)
I came to a different conclusion, Jesus is Satan. Have you been deceived to NOT FOLLOW ALL 613 LAWS FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT? Do you always observe the Sabbath on Saturday? When was the last time you had a Ham sandwich? Lobster Bisque? Funny how the Old Testament says the covenant is EVERLASTING. Is this to be contradicted by a Blood Magic Ritual of Crucifixion?
It’s wild the deceptive lengths people go to in order to defame Christ and the Church. Thanks, Trent for your great work! Zeitgeist would certainly be convincing for those who don’t do their homework.
Tyler great remark about homework. The Zeitgeist Transcript has 197 footnotes. Please go into all the details of how you did your homework in this regard. Let me guess, you did not read 1 footnote. LOL
I'm watching it, and so far all I've heard is: there are a few common points shared by all myths, and then each myth develops its own. So what if the christian myth is not entirely copied from others? Does that make its story about miraculous happenings more true? No, neither the stories from all those other myths. At one point, he says that the 12 companions of Mitra could very well have been inspired by the zodiac... Well, so could the 12 apostles then, right?
You should add in the following word problem that should be taught in Christian Schools. As a creative writer you are given the following information to write a story about how long the Sun dies and resurrects. The ancients measured the sun move 1 degree everyday the sun moved, and we have 360 degrees in a circle, which is the earth orbiting the sun. However, there are 2 events when the sun does not move, the Winter and Summer Solstices. As a result, we have a total of 5 days that the sun did not move (365-360). . So the 5 days the sun does not move is divided by the 2 events when the sun does not move. 5 / 2 = 2.5 Thus, the sun is dead for 2.5 days and resurrects on the 3rd day. Now apply the 3 day death and resurrection story with the concept of that which is above is also below. Or personify the sun as a human being.
Good points. As a jew myself I was highly susipicious of that ‘documentary’. We may agree or disagree about the theological truths but it is obvoius that most of the NT drinks from jewish sources and that an historical Jesus existed . Period. When they ‘joined’ Jesus life and Joseph ‘s I almost started laughing. And the rest of it is BS. This people really want judeo christian world to dissapear.
A few points: - I wonder why Horus though. To me Osiris, as the dying and rising god, would be a much more adequate figure for a comparison with Jesus. Although again, there are certain massive differences, like the fact that the risen Osiris is the god of the dead and lives in the Underworld. - Seth is NOT an "evil god of darkness". He's associated with tempests and the desert, mostly. Also, he's the murderer of the king Osiris, wanting to become king instead of him. Horus is the son of Osiris, fighting Seth to reclaim the heritage of his father (e.g. in p(apyrus) Chester Beatty I). That's the main element of this story. Seth has also a positive aspect, as the one who, with his lance, defeats the serpent Apophis in the Underworld during the sun-god Re's nightly journey. In the 1st millenium BC though, as the cult of Osiris enjoys a big rise in popularity, Seth becomes an almost exclusively evil figure. But then again, in the opposition between Seth and Osiris there's the opposition of fertility (fertile lands around the Nile, a son (Horus) ) and sterility (the desert, no children). - The story of Jesus copied and pasted to Horus seems quite dubious. Ancient Egyptians considered 5 gods (Isis, Osiris, Horus, Seth, Nephthys) were born at the end of the year, yes, but the end of the _Egyptian_ year, that is in summer (around July (in the Julian calender). December though (or what would be the equivalent of it) was the month of Khoiak, dedicated to a big feast of Osiris. - Who is "Anup the Baptizer"? Do they mean Anubis (< eg. 'jnpw')? Anubis is mainly a funerary god and the embalmer deity. There was indeed an article in an issue of the Journal of Egyptian Archaeology from the 1930s with an article by Sir Allan H. Gardiner about "The Baptism of Pharaoh", but first, "baptism" there was used in quotes, and second, it was about the royal purification ritual (where Anubis is absent, but Horus and Seth (sometimes replaced with Thot) are present). The 12 followers and the crucifixion seem totally invented. True, Horus may have had followers, but then again, Seth had followers (mentioned as a collective) too (other gods have them too), so nothing exclusive here. But 12? And a crucifixion? - Something very bothersome is the fact that in the Zeitgeist video they don't mention the exact Egyptian text they're using. They just say "ancient texts". Give me your precise references! Where are they? Instead, he uses later some weird astronomical considerations as arguments. But what about the textual and archaeological evidence, which would be much more convincing? - Trent's points (12min in) on Egyptian mythology are correct. Isis conceived Horus as a bird, landing on Osiris"s phallus. I guess Isis was a virgin before, but I don't think any Egyptian text makes such a fuss of her being a virgin or not. And indeed, mri is the verb for "to love". Mri.t would be the feminine participle, whether active or passive, used also as a part of names (e.g. Meritamun, "beloved of Amun"). Around the 34th min, we're back to Egypt. - Who's "Meth"? What "Holy Ghost"? Also, I love how he disregarded the hieroglyphic text in these scenes, an integral part of the scenes. Also, "Immaculate Conception"? In Ancient Egypt? As in "Mary born free of original sin"? No. Isis was born of Geb (the Earth god) and Nut (the Sky goddess). There's no mention of "sin" or "free from sin" there. There's nothing against the concept of maat, of "righteousnes conforming to a particular cosmic order". All of this is just some weird fantasy. -Who's "Mises"? Again, no reference given. -Chapter 125 of the Book of the Dead is the so-called "negative confession", uttered by the dead as a justification of his righteous life, where he says he hasn't done a big series of wrong deeds. Passages from funerary literature where the dead affirms his righteousness are known since the Old Kingdom (ca. 2650 - ca. 2150 BC) with passages on tombs saying "I fed the hungry and clothed the nacked". Why would the Bible take just ten of the utterances in Chapter 125? Also, why the Book of the Dead, and not, let's say, wisdom literature? Zeitgeist could have mentioned the Teachings of Ani or those of Amenenope, from the New Kingdom (1550 - 1070 BC), where some scholars have argued one can find the oldest formulation of the "Golden Rule". But no, once again, they make a crappy parallel.
picking a random trait from each various pagan 'god' from a thousand cultures over thousands of years and pack them all together to get Jesus.... when the whole time they're claiming that all of the gods were "the same" and Jesus was just "the latest copy" and somehow we'd all been scammed by pretending the others didn't exist. the simple fact is that if you have one God then you aren't going to have a sun god and a moon god and a storm god and whatever god, and if Jesus is the incarnation of God then all those attributes will be applied to him in his divinity. "the gods" are not conceived of the same as one almighty supreme deity but more like super beings within the universe... "creatures" not the Creator. so people get caught up in the "there's a big conspiracy secret I have to show you that the other sheep don't know about" hype from zeitgeist, the da vinci code or a hundred other such projects and miss the big picture, that if you begin to examine the claims, the whole thing collapses under the weight of common sense and simple verification. plus, even if you disbelieve in God or "the gods" there's still the "problem" of real human beings being capable of being worshiped, so why would questions about divine, miraculous claims, invalidate the historical evidence for the man himself? that really doesn't make sense. Caesar was worshiped, so he must not have existed either! I remember the days when I would spend hours unpacking all this stuff, now I just have to smh at the people who still buy it without bothering to do any research.
Zeitgeist really affected my life for a long time. It sucks young people in and it just proves that if you say a lie convincing enough, that people will believe it.
Hey Trent! Just 10 minutes into this and I'm loving it! Please do consider doing a video on Hinduism. As an Indian with some basic knowledge of Hinduism, the rebuttals that I generally see from Westerners don't seem to be using accurate depictions of that religion. Hoping you could give a much better analysis.
I would love that as well! I have a hindui coworker and realized sadly that based on what he was telling me I couldn’t prove to him that Jesus was more likely real than lord Vishnu or whatever his name was.
@@eternalbyzantium262 I have a question, what are the main beliefs of Hinduism, and how Hinduism relates to Yoga, is it because of the poses of the Hindu gods ?
I am sad now. I'd heard people mentioning 'Zeitgeist' as an argument against Christian beliefs and I had no idea they were referring to a documentary, I didn't know about it, I thought they just meant the concept of Zeitgeist. And these people were introduced to this documentary when we were in school, apparently. I can't believe this exists, it is so dangerous, the way they make it sound as if it were true is horrible, so confusing. It might be easy to rebut, but it's important to do it.
I remember when I was a teen and watched Zeitgeist. At that time I wasn't fully a Christian by choice like I am now, it was more of a cultural thing. But I was a lot into Egyptology and pagan myths and loved to read about ancient gods. One day I remember I was searching for conspiracy documentaries on youtube and found Zeitgeist. I watched like one third of the documentary and immediately found it suspicious since I knew about the story of Horus and he certainly didn't have disciples, let alone having 12 (LOL), I found it very amusing and stupid that they claimed Isis was a virgin since she had a husband named Orisis and I never found any parallel between Horus and Jesus while reading about the Egyptian myths. At that moment that I detected the first lie I couldn't tolerate it. I don't like being lied to in such a pretentious way, it makes me mad. Then I found out about Zeitgeist "moving forward" apparently it was a continuation. And there they talked about a new world order, a conscience awakening and stuff that really sounded like hippie beliefs and what the actual conspiracy theories warned about. There they also said meritocracy didn't exist and we're all condemned to be the same class as our family except if we deceive or do illegal things that we can change our class status. That was stupid to me because my family that were farmers and very poor during the 40's became upper middle class through hard work and saving money and investing in properties and stuff. I later found out not only these Zeitgeist documentaries are complete lies but they effectively come from new age beliefs that were promoted during the 60's and that come out of the theosophical movement within Bavarian illuminati, that freemasons were even afraid of them because of their occultism, they belived in astrology and the age of aquarius and stuff that really has not even astrological proof. And the Zeitgeist documentary is an exact reproduction of their beliefs..
I have a good friend who is a father of 3 that believes almost everything from this documentary. He would often go off on a rant about how my faith is a rip off of Egyptian gods. Glad I was able to find the origin of his beliefs, I don't know how I'll break it to him, or if he'll even listen to me. Thanks for sharing your story and attempting to clean up this mucky comment section.
@Skelley-Priest Your claim is lame and you can't back it up. You said, "everything in this movie is a lie." The transcript to the movie has a 197 footnotes that defend against your claim that everything is a lie. You have failed miserably to look at even 1 footnote so you are a long way from proving 197 are all lies.
@DamnSon precisely. Yes there may be footnotes... but then one needs to investigate the footnotes! If we find that they are lacking, it is of no merit to have tons of footnotes. It's the quality which matters
@@nazgulskyrim7377 A believer is talking about high horse, thats rich. Who claims that he knows the mind of god? It doesnt get more arrogant, my friend. And believers are experts in making claims without backing them up with evidence or arguments. The definition of faith. Doesnt say the bible that you are sheep, anyway? Seems to be the truth. Following the shepherd without thinking too much about it, let alone look for evidence, for or against it.
I remember watching this trilogy as a young teen. The most insidious part of this documentary is that they presented some truthful elements (9/11, banking). But this is how they ended up sneaking in lies like saying Jesus was a pagan deity. Found it very strange at the time.
@@IndiaNumberOneCoubtry Here is the link to the Zeitgeist Movie Transcript which shows the 197 footnotes. It took me less than 1 minute to Google this. Now you can show your Christian Values and ask for forgiveness. So, I have SHUT YOU UP BRO!!!
This movie mislead me during my college days, i did not go to church for a year because of this, it scarred me so much that i become agnostic. But thanks to God i was brought back by the grace of God. Thanks for this Trent.
Its not even a sophomore level documentary, it really isn’t. It’s a fluff pop piece intentionally made as a hit piece on Christianity to appeal to naive and easily influenced school grade/sophomore students. I actually thought he would mention the Sasquatch at some point!
This video was so destructive to the millennial generation. We were poorly educated about ancient history and mythology. Very few were looking to really study this. Many found this as a good confirmation of their own biases and accepted it uncritically. P. S. Anyone else annoyed by his confusion between “adorned” and “adored”? I noticed it twice! Once it was even written in a slide! 😂
Nietzsche's critique of Christianity really shouldn't be taken seriously. He just heard a thought experiment from an ancient Greek philosopher that went something like if matter will always exist for eternity, then whatever has happened, is happening, and will happen will repeat infinite times for eternity. This is called eternal return and Nietzsche got scared of this and thought that if how he lives is going to repeat, he better make the best of it. So this eternal return became the foundation of his ubermensch, and slave morality and such. It's a philosophically garbage grounding to say the least.
@@danieljoyce6199 reading this beyond garbage 3 minute youtube video explaination of Nietzsche made me cringe and die. Please read On the Genoeology of Morality and actually understand what youre talking about you cringe pseud
The thing with many pagan myths stories, is that they do convey meaningful (symbolical) truths of reality. The thing with Christianity is that these symbols aren't merely abstract, no longer, but became actualized through Jesus Christ... As it is written; The *WORD* (narrative structure of reality) became flesh and walked among us.
@@issemayhem Not really,, Apollo was a separate deity associated with the sun, but never ran with the sun in a chariot, from what I've read. That story is exclusive to Helios.
From what I've found, this and similar claims against against Catholicism are rooted in a 19th-century 'literary' work called "The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop. That work was referred to by Lorraine Boettner in his anti-Catholic work "Roman Catholicism" in 1962. Boettner and Hislop seem to be sources used by Dave Hunt in his anti-Catholic work "A Woman Rides the Beast". Those three books form the "bible" of anti-Catholic arguments, even though Hislop's work has been roundly rejected by intellectually honest researchers (for it's shoddy literary content and poor referencing), even non-Catholic ones. So, read up on those guys, then you'll know everything to expect from any anti-Catholic you might run into.
This is dumb. I remember the new atheist types tried to push this crap. I never really bought into it even though at the time I wasn’t all that religious
There was a similar one called “The God Who Was Not There”. Watched after I became a non believer and it confirmed my suspicions at the time. A few year after doing some research, I realized I had been had.
Ugh. I remember being hooked by this documentary hook, line and sinker back when I was in highschool. It has always been in the back of my mind since I converted. Thanks for doing this video! It is very helpful to put to rest my foolish, young highschool self.
This is needed. I actually ran into someone posting these memes a couple weeks ago. You'd think something that was so obviously wrong wouldn't have such legs.
Yeah, you'd think, but the reality is they don't care a whit what those who know better would say. They just cared about reinforcing the negative and uninformed biases against Christianity. Con men only go after those who want to believe the con.
@@ironymatt Often true, but it is still useful to be putting this out there. The more embarrassing and exposed the con, the less likely dishonest people will emply it.
@@Cato229 You haved failed to acknowledge the Psychopathy in con-men. Try Googling the top 10 careers of a Psychopath, #8 is Clergy. Here is the Christian and the Con-Man's Motto: Never drop the con, tell the lie till you die.
@@Maber01 The existence of con-men doesn't magically make these false claims grounded in history or these other religions. You just left a substanceless comment.
Don’t worry, there are PLENTY of rebuttal, debunk, and debate videos regarding Islam and their views on Jesus (just check out youtube channels like Acts17Apologetics, Apostate Prophet, and Islam Critiqued). I wouldn’t be surprised if Trent didn’t make a video though, because 1. Trent is more-so focused on atheistic/anti-catholic videos and 2. in the Muslim apologetics scene thus far, Muslim apologists and their fans have a history in mocking, berating, and showering their opponents with threats and insults, and chest thumping before they even begin to carefully consider what their opponent’s arguments are. Not to mention that in many Muslim “debunking Christianity” videos, they do A LOT of what Zeitgeist does in this video-lying.
Trent, great job as always! An idea for a rebuttal video: Universalism! Would be really interesting to see you rebut David bentley hart or any of the other universalists out there since they bring up some interesting things to think about.
What part did you think was so funny? Was it the part that says there is no evidence for Jesus? Or are you so delusional that you think there is evidence for Jesus? What is the evidence for the Infanticide that is stolen from Moses who stole is from Sargon?
@Skelley Skelley, you are a liar. You said, "We have more evidence for Jesus than we do Alexander the Great." Now try reading from a court document about Jesus from the New Testament. You have zero evidence. Jesus is a Jewish Man, living in Judea, in the 1st Century A.D. What do the Jews outside the bible have to say about this Jesus? Nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My college textbook, The New Testament, by Stephen L. Harris says, “With one exception, no Jewish writer [outside the bible] of the first or early second century alludes to either Jesus or the movement named for him” (282). The only exception is Josephus. I find it Reasonable to Doubt Josephus wrote all of the famous passage because Christian Apologists argue that Josephus did not write the fraudulent parts of the passage, or what they call “Christian Interpolations.” In a court of law, Josephus fails to: Tell the Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing but the Truth. LOL As a matter of fact, there is not one credible Jewish reference that demonstrates that the Jews outside the bible, in the 1st century were even AWARE of the idea of a guy named Jesus that has anything to do with the New Testament. There is no evidence without awareness.
7:08 - “Son of God” and “Sun god”: the difference between the Hebrew words for “sun” and “sun” 8:29 - Horus 10:02 - Is the death and resurrection of Jesus based on pagan religions? 11:55 - According to Trent, we *don’t* have Egyptian literature claiming that Horus was either crucified, buried for three days, had twelve disciples, baptized by Anup, etc. 12:30 - The source for such Horus claims. 13:00 - Horus’ mother (Meri) as opposed to Mary’s name in Hebrew (Miriam) 14:00 - What about the Greek god Attis? Isn’t his story similar? 14:32 and 14:38 - Was Attis was crucified and resurrected? 15:15 and 15:23 - What about Krishna? Is that a virgin birth? Was there a star? 15:50 and 16:20 - What about the Greek god, Dionysus? 17:43 - Was Dionysus called “King of Kings”, “Alpha and Omega”? 18:08 - Was Dionysus resurrected? 18:14 - What about the image of Dionysus being crucified? Was that a fake? 18:55 and 19:18 - And Mithra? Is there a difference between the Persian Mithra (before Christ) and the Roman Mithra (after Christ)? 51:37, 52:18, 52:30 - Joseph
They keep saying that some Christian words kinda sound like other pagan words. Hey the word Easter sorta sounds like Ishtar, the pagan goddess. This is goofy. I could point out that the name Dr Seuss sounds similar to Zeus. Does this mean that the stories of Dr Seuss are actually copied from the stories about Zeus? It would be crazy to think so.
I ended up watching Zeitgeist either around the time I had a crisis of faith in primary school, or after I stopped believing in God early on in uni. It's jumbled in there somewhere, but that, along with Thunderf00t's "Why Do People Laugh at Creationists" video series, either led me to renounce my faith, or confirmed my bias after the fact. Either way, I was already emotionally predisposed toward the atheism movement of the aughts; if it sounded good and made me feel good, that was good enough for me in my late teens & early 20s.
I'm glad you did this. In my late teens and early 20's I was very caught up in the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project. I really thought Peter Joseph had come up with an economic system that wasn't Communism but could replace Capitalism. Eventually, the debate between Stephan Molyneux and Peter Joseph convinced me otherwise when Stephan wiped the floor with him. It's great to see you absolutely bury Peter's ridiculous ideas about religion.
I was just getting into Scientology when I watched this for the first time so although the original video was very shocking, it didn’t shake my faith as I had already left Christianity years prior. I was watching the video a lot back then and I ALWAYS thought about this part of the Zeitgeist movie and always wondered if there was any way to verify the information in zeitgeist. Today I thought about it after years and googled it and found this video which applies to my EXACT question. Very interesting! I do feel there’s more to study though! But this video is a good starting point with sources to look into.
That's true, but it's also true about Apollo. These are two legends that were probably conflated later. The legend about Helios probably inspired elaborations on the legend about Apollo. The Apollo legend is that Zeus gifted a golden chariot to Apollo. Later on, we get stories about Apollo driving the chariot to bring light to the world (though not necessarily involving the sun). This motif was pretty obscure in ancient times but became popular much later in baroque paintings. There are all sorts of weird variants and extrapolations of Greco-Roman myth, both authentic and inauthetnic, throughout history. Especially among modern day conspiracy theorists
Thank you sir I’m someone who’s in the process of coming out Protestantism mainly because of the sola scriptura debates between James Whites and Tim Staples as well as James whites debate with Patrick Madrid. I’ve always heard the argument that Jesus was copied from older religions and this video helps to rebut that foolishness. May God bless you always 🙏
It’s funny to me that critics of religion always ADMIT that there are almost universally held beliefs and myths, but they never seem to consider that the reason this happens is because it is actually real and true and subconsciously understood by humanity
Right, I have thought the same thing myself. I don’t think this would service as a strictly Christian argument, but it could be put to use for the purposes of establishing a general proposition that there is a spiritual aspect to human existence. (One can of course put a Christian twist on it, but I doubt the church would approve of this line of reasoning.)
@@nostradamus2231 I think it's far too strong a conclusion to say "all religions are true." I would only be comfortable in saying they all (as far as I know) hit upon some aspect of reality which is available to us to experience, but probably never to truly "understand."
Agreed. Religious historian Karen Armstrong points out that despite atheists trying to get to some neutral “pre-religious” state of humanity, there is no historical precedent for such a culture. Today’s secular societies are the exception not the rule. It’d be generous to call it an experiment.
Oh my gosh, I’ve taken several courses in ancient art history and one that specialized in the Ancient Near East and the amount of things Zeitgeist has gotten wrong in the spam of 15 seconds is horrendous. I’m over here thinking “did I fall asleep during that part of class???”
These arguments are always a mix of false claims and "omigish! Did you know Christianity uses some universal symbols, contains some universal methods of human expression, and is rich in themes that humans have always thought important?!"
@@jhoughjr1 Okay... no idea. I only know that here in Germany people always say, "Christ" (= the Anointed one) is the Greek word for "Messiah". And I have heard matching quotations too if I recall correctly. But I guess the only way to find out would be to a)learn Hebrew, b)ask an expert or c)look it up in a dictionary. I might have a look at the internet - maybe I'll find an ancient Hebrew dictionary.
Messiah doesn't really translate at all. It is the word to describe the saviour prophesised in the Hebrew Bible, of which there is only one in the universe. So the word makes no sense in any other context.
Great rebuttal! Also, it's not really "beneath your time" (as other may accuse you of doing) rebutting low hanging fruit because that low hanging fruit is grabbed by baby Christians who need to see videos like this!
This would be an important and useful book you might write, sir. You would surely do the subject justice and help to unconfuse souls, especially students.
At 0:31:00 ish, wow! The circle on the "Celtic cross" in free standing crosses from Britain and Ireland C. 700 - 800 developed because it provided structural security for the arms of the cross when they moved from incised crosses on slabs to fully recessed freestanding crosses, e.g. the Ruthwell Cross, the Gosforth cross. That Zeitgeist chap astounds me with his general ignorance
What confuses me about religion critics is how the frightening similarities between religions throughout human history might be trying to warn us of impending doom and attempting to introduce some method to the madness to subvert some of the more ugly effects, rather than just flat-out ripping each other off? After all, like Trent just said, “If you hear trampling, it’s better to assume horses before you assume unicorns.”
Minor correction: At 25:40 you say the Magi did not follow the star, but it says at Matthew 2:9 "After their audience with the king they set out. And behold, the star that they had seen at its rising _preceded them_ (emphasis mine), until it came and _stopped_ (emphasis mine) over the place where the child was. Otherwise, so far, so good.
The Zeitgeist pagan myth conspiracy is based on Acharya S and Kersey Graves... both have been debunked repeatedly, but there is a legitimate scholarly position on mythicism that should be addressed by Trent
I think the reason why so many people believe this obviously flawed myth is that they have no other option when it comes to denying Christ, and when they’re desperate to make a point, they’ll take anything no matter how devoid of logic it is. There’s the one channel called “Jesus Never Existed” run by Ken Humphrey, and I’d love to see Trent just tear into this guy’s content.
That's ass backwards in my case. I was so desperate to have a supernatural being that could help me out that I turned to Christianity. But Jesus wouldn't give me the things I prayed for. So I went online to do research into how to get better results with my prayers, and that's how I stumbled upon Zeitgeist. Zeitgeist opened my eyes to the reason WHY Jesus won't answer my prayers. It's because he just simply isn't real. When the debunking videos started coming out though, I knew I had to do research to find out who was right and who was wrong. Long story short, Zeitgeist didn't get everything right, but it's also not quite as full as crap as debunkers often make it out to be. I'm not an expert in all those gods, but I studied the Egypt stuff enough to know that some of the stuff debunkers call out, is stuff that Zeitgeist actually got right. Not that I think of Jesus as being copied from Horus, but it's clear that a lot of the claims made about Jesus are just not original to him, and that he's based on an amalgam of different characters. It was normal for ancient cultures to appropriate each other's stories and to combine & syncretize gods. So it makes sense that we see it in the Bible too. It would be kinda weird if we didn't see it in the Bible.
@@ZeitgeistLegacy Jesus is not supermarket where you ask stuff, especialy if you ask "wrong" stuff. God doesen't owe you anything. He just want you to surrender to Him freely and you will have blessing from Him, you need to trust Him because He knows what's best for you, but unfortunately our arrogance take best of us and we think we can do anything and we know better. Bless you 🙏🏻
You are right. We all need to do more research. The Zeitgeist Transcript has 197 footnotes, given that Trent did not cite 1 of 197 that is where we should start. When Trent cites sources he Quote Mines. This is a Satanic diversion, and proves he has no interest in analyzing Zeitgeist sources which could verify Zeitgeist as being right.
There's this guy who did a series of rapid-fire responses to the video "the Jesus lie". He is so misled, whether from a Christian or atheistic perception. I hope he finds some truth.
It is funny to me how people try to discredit Christianity based on worn out comparisons, purposeful ignorance of history, and lack of follow through with looking up sources. Not to mention assuming languages haven’t evolved and grown since the time of their conception. There’s many phrases and words that have changed over the years across many countries, with differing dialects in between such as the US coke vs pop usage. It’s also interesting that the default assumption is Judaism/Christianity copied from pagans when sometimes it’s the complete opposite. Just shows the innate biases that can occur in data gathering and research. Side note: I actually love reading different Flood stories because they’re quite interesting in terms of reasonings and what lessons the people at the time took from them. The Epic of Gilgamesh has more to do with the main god disliking the unclean, noisy humans, and the only reason any human survived was because one of the gods warned them. In the end, the big god was mad but since the other gods were watching him, he couldn’t kill them and just made them immortal. The Norse Flood myth is probably my favorite as it’s the fall of the giant Ymir and Odin and the other gods taking his body to creat Midgard (Earth). Also, when I hear ‘Sargon of Akkad’ I can only think of the UA-camr turned podcaster 😂 I vaguely recall him mentioning purposefully naming his handle after Sargon in his gaming days, but it never clicked til I learned a bit of the realSargon of Akkad history. Just funny how everything connects sometimes.
If you really enjoy seeing all the different versions of a flood story try this one. Dial a planisphere to 6 a.m. on the Winter Solstice Dec. 21st. You will see the Milky Way flooding the horizon in all directions, thus completely flooding the earth. On the north side you will see Gemini, as in two of everything, floating in the Milky Way. You can find this at 30 by 50 degrees of declination. The ark for the clean animals is Ophiuchus. Enjoy.
Ive been agnostic atheist most of my life but have noticed something weird. At least where I am, Sundays always have had unusually nice weather. Idk if its all bias.
The local flood theory does not explain the existence of flood stories in the Americas and Africa. Definitely not local populations. What does explain it is that the flood really happened and the divergent stories are distorted versions of the memories of the single family everyone is descended from.
I watched this movie a while ago, I liked many parts of it, but as a Christian I knew some of it was absolute garbage. Looking back on what I know now, this video was well done, thank you!
I loved the commentary on the miracles of Horus when you said something like of course you would expect a deity to do miracles. Don’t even see the irony do you?
That's one of a number of symbolic meanings we could apply to it, you could also say it represents the eternal God, with no beginning and no end, but that's no why it developed. (I'm a craftsman specialising in the period AD 700-1100). Depictions of the cross from the period are mostly in manuscripts and sculpture. Most of the manuscripts don't have the circle. Most of our sculpture (in Britain and Ireland) is in sandstone and if you carve a free standing crosses the arms will break off whilst you're making it, or shortly afterwards. You just can't carve a regular cross like that without it breaking. The circle supports the arms and stops them breaking. Then symbolic importance is attached to it and you start seeing it in some manuscripts and incised on some slabs. The symbolic importance is good, and I'm not undermining it, but the practical reason (caused by God's laws of reality) came first in all likelihood
It might be low hanging fruit, but that bad fruit has been eaten by a lot of people.
Wouldn't even call zeitgeist low hanging fruit, more like a piñata
@@ironymatt 😂
The low haning fruit is the easiest to pick
It's a good way to know the difference between a well educated person and a truly intelligent person. No truly intelligent person believes 9/11 was a conspiracy.
They’re not even going to the low-hanging fruit, they’re going for the ones on the ground.
That documentary was a real stumbling block for me years ago. I sincerely appreciate that you took the time to go through this one. Thank you!
I suggest you go through Zeitgeist for yourself.
Start with the 197 footnotes in the Zeitgeist Transcript.
It’s not a documentary when it’s full of fake claims.
@@Maber01 I mean zyguist legit lied continuously
@@Maber01 people suggest "do your own research" bc that is the best way to guarantee someone will be uninformed. Peter Joseph relies on people not knowing that his claims are made up and have no standing whatsoever in order for them to be believed. What a liar
@@Maber01 name one
Wow I can’t believe the Gospel writers anticipated the invention of the English language centuries in advance and used it to craft their narrative based on a clever pun from the non-existent language. The Christians are truly naive!!
Yup. That’s the best evidence for Christianity that atheists can’t deny now. Lol.
Written in greek
They don’t anticipate it themselves. God gave them visions of the future like Isaiah.
They are because they don't understand gematria
it's not about the words "sun" and "son" specifically, but the concepts for which those words represent.
The claim Krishna was born of a Virgin always struck me as the true sign that someone really was just lying. Especially since Krishna’s OLDER BROTHER plays a major role in his story.
Ha! For me, I thought the Sun/Son claim was hysterically stupid and I also knew that Isis was no virgin after having sex with Osiris’ dismembered aaaaa … member.
@@tylergermanowicz5756 it comes from a complete lack of understanding ancient religions it’s like some claiming that Muslims worship a moon god
@@tylergermanowicz5756 "Adam" was "A Damsel" in distress/pregnant virgin with THAT "sun" inside... And SHE WAS GOING TO HAVE TO "MATE" WITH "HIM" To "Continue Their Life Forms"... For EVER "More"... via "incest". It's just The Bible Story being told in a "more believable way".
Krishna’s brothers being in the story have no bearing on weather or not she was born of a virgin birth 😂 if you can have one you can have more than one these things didn’t literally happen
You’re just completely missing the point…
It’s the fact that that story existed before Jesus and Christianity just completely stole that and added it to Jesus…
DUDE THEY WORSHIPPED THE SUN AND JESUS IS THE SON WOAH
One of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen.
Bruh, S U N and S O N thats like, like, like the same, nearly. BWOAH
😂 that’s about as deep as it gets, sadly.
@@jancegin2337 ah yes, the two English words with the same pronunciations.
it also covers sovereign citizen crap if I recall. Even in my most militant atheist days I shot this junk down at every opportunity. They make the mistake of being a theme and thinking its like copying homework.
Excited for this one. Appreciate your work Trent.
The real miracle is how Trent Horn can keep a straight face as he drops truth bombs.
He is the Ben Shapiro of Catholicism
@@yourboieb4477 Negative or a positive connotation?
@@abramwarpness6053 positive. Trent Horn is amazing
oh to be as humble as Trent
He is given grace of humility and he choose to be humble.
I was a teenager when that “documentary” was released, and it was one of many things that made me give up my presbyterian faith. Been struggling for over a decade with atheism, agnosticism, satanism, paganism, buddhism… and so on.
But through the Holy Spirit, and apologists like Trent Horn, I’m coming back to the faith, but as a Catholic this time.
So the “low hanging fruit” such as Mr. Horn’s video here debunks is far more important to refute than he gives it credit for.
Lol same
Even though I didn't fall for satanism I was into paganism for a while. But something that saved me is that I already knew about Egyptian mythology when I watched the documentary so I detected the lies in Horus story and didn't keep watching, I don't live being lied to. I felt like the documentary was trying to gaslight me or something. I'm a Catholic as well, but I already was baptized and everything since my family is Catholic. Welcome home!!
this documentary was a true plague/virus because the tone feels so serious and makes you say, "wow this must be true."
The video may not be true.
What is true, however, is that paganism/Roman beliefs had a great influence on the nationalized Christianity of the Roman period.
Low-hanging fruit is the easiest to pick. That’s what makes it so dangerous.
I genuinely had some woman tell me that her husband was a descendant to Mary Magdalene and this somehow proves that Jesus Christ is not God…. Many of these people are allergic to historical data and facts. I pray they see the truth
The video not only misrepresents Christianity, it misrepresents pagan myth.
Can you elaborate? I also think this guy is bs
@Cardboard Cape Zeitgeist.
@@MPIO2023 Trent.
Do you have any arguments for your claim? Otherwise its an empty claim and worthless.
@@billcarson818It says Dyonisius was "the Alpha and the Omega", that Horus and Khrishna were born of virgins, etc. Lots of fake things about polytheistic gods.
What an excruciating "documentary." As a college instructor, sometimes the amount of misinformation (or disinformation) that is dumped in my lap is so fatiguing that I want to throw up my hands. Great job staying methodical and charitable, Trent.
As a college professor what do say when someone debunks an argument without looking at the footnotes for the argument.
For example, Zeitgeist has 197 footnotes, and this man did not look at 1 of them.
I say Grade: F
Yes this disinformation is exhausting....take the 911 commission report for example and all the horrendous doubling down that came from it.
@@Maber01 The people watching the movie are for the most part just seeing these scenes, which are presented as factual. Many students do the same thing, they write a paragraph in a way that sounds truthful, or has one citation, and then move on to the next point.
Regardless of footnotes, Zeitgeist is clearly intended to deceive and misinform.
As a college instructor you should/would know that zeitgeist wasnt a documentary. Funny how people just throw words around without knowing the meaning of them.
@@Maber01You are spamming the comments section with basically the same comment.
Try to come up with something original.
Dude you crushed it. I appreciate you bro. I KNOW you've researched with thoroughness, but more important, honesty. God bless you and yours Trent!
Jesus died on a cross. The cross was made of Mahogany. "Mahogany" ends with "Y", which translates to "why?" in Hebrew. Every time a husband cheated on his wife in the ancient Israel, the wife would say, "Why!?"
Adding all of these evidences, we can conclude Jesus was a woman.
Prove me wrong, Mr. Trent!
😂😂😂
I think Ray is ready for a you tube channel.
Send that to Godless Engineer. He'll probably think that it's a legit argument against Jesus' existence.
🤣🤣🤣
I can't believe it. My entire life has been a lie.
I’m Orthodox but enjoy watching you Trent
Mythicists are the true definition of grasping at straws to disprove Christ
I was so dejected after watching this several years ago. Thankfully the Holy Spirit had a tight grip on me as this would have challenged my faith. Thank you for exposing the ridiculousness of the arguments, you are a gift to the Church!
It's weird to assume different tribal groups separated by thousands of miles, sometimes hundreds of years, and language barriers would know anything about one another's mythology, let alone copy them.
Especially for the Israelites, who rejected paganism. They wouldn't have had anything to do with the zodiac, let alone try and copy it.
The producers of zeitgeist obviously weren't concerned about the viewers who would know better - they're after all those "enlightened" folks who've been taught that anything religious is bad and consequently never learned the first thing about Christianity.
For sure. Like it's far far more likely that what is really happening with these different stories and mythologies having similar themes is that is comes out of a common human nature, psychology, and spiritual longing. Like with Mayans and Egyptians both building pyramids and having some similar rituals and civilizational structure. The alternative explanation that they were both instructed to do these things by aliens is laughably less likely than the case I just presented.
@@AjaxNixon that’s what I always thought too! Similar psychology and propensity to worship, and universal moral understandings are inherent in all humanity across tribes and cultures. It makes complete sense why certain themes and dichotomies exist in many religions. All religions are grasping for the same truth but ultimately only one has the fullness of it ;).
@@AjaxNixon Exactly. They have to make the plagiarism argument because they don't want to contend with the possibility that these different cultures are all catching glimpses of the same transcendent truths.
It is not weird if the stories are based on the same astronomical event.
We know with great certainty that many of the ancient cultures were well aware of the Galactic Alignment of 2012.
So one would look at the Winter Solstice of 2012 and see how many stories you could write from that astronomy.
However, in the case of Shakespeare's Mid Summer Night Dream you have to look at June 20th, 2012. The Summer Solstice. But is digress.
The key to knowing the year 2012 is the eight spoked wheel seen in the Lost Book of Nostradamus, Sumerian Seals, The Egyptian Pyramids, and St. Peter's Square. And let's not forget Wonder Woman's head dress. "The Scorpio and the Wolf must hunt".
My brothers showed me zeitgeist over ten years ago, because of their disbelief and my great faith at that time. Unfortunately at the time I allowed it to doubt my faith and my life changed for the worse during this period. Since then I’ve regained much faith, and this rebuttal helped, but also reminded me of a time I wish I had back to glorify God instead of what actually happened.
Same here
Have your shared this video with your brothers?
Omg 😆
I'm an atheist, and had studied ancient religions before, so when Zeitgeist came, I knew it was a bunch of BS. The rebuttal of Zeitgeist is accurate, but it's not evidence that "God exists", but that misinformation can come from both ends.
You became a communist then?
It's so good to be christian. The peace of conscience is great. When I was agnostic, life was totally without sense and I used to live to please my desires, like a dog or another brute animal, but when you convert, it's interesting how everything changes.
You just had a poor moral compass and needed religion to guide you or rather the key figures in your life didn't teach you right from wrong, you got bored of doing the things you did and you matured. It's not rocket science😂. I've been a atheist since I was 14, I'm 29 now and stoicism has been my moral guide. No religion needed, no drugs, no gangs, no violence etc. I just knew right from wrong, it's pretty simple for me but most people need religion I suppose, and I get it
@@dripfoe_3307 If you’ve read much Stoic literature you’ll have noticed that there’s quite a lot of references to God and providence. Greek philosophy in general was at the very least theistic and Stoicism was no different. Without the underlying theistic metaphysics the conception of virtue loses its meaning. If you lose the idea of a creator and therefore a created order then you lose the idea of a human telos and therefore the virtues which help us to achieve eudaemonia. So it’s interesting to hear atheists talk about Stoicism and ethics as though you can disentangle the morality from the metaphysics and theology.
@@EVSmith-by9no such a lame ignorant argument. I'm theistic but some of the most virtuous people I've known have been agnostic/atheist. You don't need to be religious or believe in God or an everlasting afterlife to be virtuous and have morals. If you only have morals to avoid hellfire, that actually shows lack of character, looking out for yourself, selfishness, the opposite of virtue. And let's be real. Most religious people today are good to avoid hell for the most part. And to pass the judgement day. Fear is the great motivator, even though it's claimed to be love.
Thank you Trent, I remember watching this when I was 18-19years old and I attribute this and my lack of knowledge to my push back from God. I came back to my faith and only wish I wasn’t naive to fall for this early in life.
Thank you again, I’ll be sharing 🙏🏽
Same
I did the same...but I was raised non-religious, and saw it as more evidence of how ridiculous religion was.
Was baptized and confirmed in to the Catholic church in June :)
@@billyg898 Welcome Brother in Christ!
I came to a different conclusion, Jesus is Satan.
Have you been deceived to NOT FOLLOW ALL 613 LAWS FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT?
Do you always observe the Sabbath on Saturday?
When was the last time you had a Ham sandwich? Lobster Bisque?
Funny how the Old Testament says the covenant is EVERLASTING. Is this to be contradicted by a Blood Magic Ritual of Crucifixion?
I would rather be naive than delusional. You need mental help
It’s wild the deceptive lengths people go to in order to defame Christ and the Church. Thanks, Trent for your great work! Zeitgeist would certainly be convincing for those who don’t do their homework.
Tyler great remark about homework.
The Zeitgeist Transcript has 197 footnotes.
Please go into all the details of how you did your homework in this regard.
Let me guess, you did not read 1 footnote. LOL
What's even more wild is belief in nonsense that violates actual demonstrable information about the nature of reality.
Why read footnotes when whats said is already disproved bias?
I'm watching it, and so far all I've heard is: there are a few common points shared by all myths, and then each myth develops its own.
So what if the christian myth is not entirely copied from others? Does that make its story about miraculous happenings more true? No, neither the stories from all those other myths.
At one point, he says that the 12 companions of Mitra could very well have been inspired by the zodiac... Well, so could the 12 apostles then, right?
This should be used as an educational video in Christian schools so that children can see how easily they can be fooled into doubting their faith.
I second that one. Vaccination against atheism.
You should add in the following word problem that should be taught in Christian Schools.
As a creative writer you are given the following information to write a story about how long the Sun dies and resurrects.
The ancients measured the sun move 1 degree everyday the sun moved, and we have 360 degrees in a circle, which is the earth orbiting the sun.
However, there are 2 events when the sun does not move, the Winter and Summer Solstices.
As a result, we have a total of 5 days that the sun did not move (365-360).
.
So the 5 days the sun does not move is divided by the 2 events when the sun does not move. 5 / 2 = 2.5
Thus, the sun is dead for 2.5 days and resurrects on the 3rd day.
Now apply the 3 day death and resurrection story with the concept of that which is above is also below. Or personify the sun as a human being.
@@Maber01 Jesus was dead from friday 3pm to before dawn of sunday, let's make it 6 AM. That's 39 hours. Less than 2.5 days.
You're dense
Good points. As a jew myself I was highly susipicious of that ‘documentary’. We may agree or disagree about the theological truths but it is obvoius that most of the NT drinks from jewish sources and that an historical Jesus existed . Period. When they ‘joined’ Jesus life and Joseph ‘s I almost started laughing. And the rest of it is BS. This people really want judeo christian world to dissapear.
A few points:
- I wonder why Horus though. To me Osiris, as the dying and rising god, would be a much more adequate figure for a comparison with Jesus. Although again, there are certain massive differences, like the fact that the risen Osiris is the god of the dead and lives in the Underworld.
- Seth is NOT an "evil god of darkness". He's associated with tempests and the desert, mostly. Also, he's the murderer of the king Osiris, wanting to become king instead of him. Horus is the son of Osiris, fighting Seth to reclaim the heritage of his father (e.g. in p(apyrus) Chester Beatty I). That's the main element of this story. Seth has also a positive aspect, as the one who, with his lance, defeats the serpent Apophis in the Underworld during the sun-god Re's nightly journey. In the 1st millenium BC though, as the cult of Osiris enjoys a big rise in popularity, Seth becomes an almost exclusively evil figure. But then again, in the opposition between Seth and Osiris there's the opposition of fertility (fertile lands around the Nile, a son (Horus) ) and sterility (the desert, no children).
- The story of Jesus copied and pasted to Horus seems quite dubious. Ancient Egyptians considered 5 gods (Isis, Osiris, Horus, Seth, Nephthys) were born at the end of the year, yes, but the end of the _Egyptian_ year, that is in summer (around July (in the Julian calender). December though (or what would be the equivalent of it) was the month of Khoiak, dedicated to a big feast of Osiris.
- Who is "Anup the Baptizer"? Do they mean Anubis (< eg. 'jnpw')? Anubis is mainly a funerary god and the embalmer deity. There was indeed an article in an issue of the Journal of Egyptian Archaeology from the 1930s with an article by Sir Allan H. Gardiner about "The Baptism of Pharaoh", but first, "baptism" there was used in quotes, and second, it was about the royal purification ritual (where Anubis is absent, but Horus and Seth (sometimes replaced with Thot) are present). The 12 followers and the crucifixion seem totally invented. True, Horus may have had followers, but then again, Seth had followers (mentioned as a collective) too (other gods have them too), so nothing exclusive here. But 12? And a crucifixion?
- Something very bothersome is the fact that in the Zeitgeist video they don't mention the exact Egyptian text they're using. They just say "ancient texts". Give me your precise references! Where are they? Instead, he uses later some weird astronomical considerations as arguments. But what about the textual and archaeological evidence, which would be much more convincing?
- Trent's points (12min in) on Egyptian mythology are correct. Isis conceived Horus as a bird, landing on Osiris"s phallus. I guess Isis was a virgin before, but I don't think any Egyptian text makes such a fuss of her being a virgin or not. And indeed, mri is the verb for "to love". Mri.t would be the feminine participle, whether active or passive, used also as a part of names (e.g. Meritamun, "beloved of Amun").
Around the 34th min, we're back to Egypt.
- Who's "Meth"? What "Holy Ghost"? Also, I love how he disregarded the hieroglyphic text in these scenes, an integral part of the scenes. Also, "Immaculate Conception"? In Ancient Egypt? As in "Mary born free of original sin"? No. Isis was born of Geb (the Earth god) and Nut (the Sky goddess). There's no mention of "sin" or "free from sin" there. There's nothing against the concept of maat, of "righteousnes conforming to a particular cosmic order". All of this is just some weird fantasy.
-Who's "Mises"? Again, no reference given.
-Chapter 125 of the Book of the Dead is the so-called "negative confession", uttered by the dead as a justification of his righteous life, where he says he hasn't done a big series of wrong deeds. Passages from funerary literature where the dead affirms his righteousness are known since the Old Kingdom (ca. 2650 - ca. 2150 BC) with passages on tombs saying "I fed the hungry and clothed the nacked". Why would the Bible take just ten of the utterances in Chapter 125? Also, why the Book of the Dead, and not, let's say, wisdom literature? Zeitgeist could have mentioned the Teachings of Ani or those of Amenenope, from the New Kingdom (1550 - 1070 BC), where some scholars have argued one can find the oldest formulation of the "Golden Rule". But no, once again, they make a crappy parallel.
Probably because Horus has way more "light" or "sun" symbolism associated with him.
or they weren't mythology experts.
picking a random trait from each various pagan 'god' from a thousand cultures over thousands of years and pack them all together to get Jesus.... when the whole time they're claiming that all of the gods were "the same" and Jesus was just "the latest copy" and somehow we'd all been scammed by pretending the others didn't exist. the simple fact is that if you have one God then you aren't going to have a sun god and a moon god and a storm god and whatever god, and if Jesus is the incarnation of God then all those attributes will be applied to him in his divinity. "the gods" are not conceived of the same as one almighty supreme deity but more like super beings within the universe... "creatures" not the Creator. so people get caught up in the "there's a big conspiracy secret I have to show you that the other sheep don't know about" hype from zeitgeist, the da vinci code or a hundred other such projects and miss the big picture, that if you begin to examine the claims, the whole thing collapses under the weight of common sense and simple verification. plus, even if you disbelieve in God or "the gods" there's still the "problem" of real human beings being capable of being worshiped, so why would questions about divine, miraculous claims, invalidate the historical evidence for the man himself? that really doesn't make sense. Caesar was worshiped, so he must not have existed either! I remember the days when I would spend hours unpacking all this stuff, now I just have to smh at the people who still buy it without bothering to do any research.
I can see you were invested in ancient Egyptian mythology and history growing up like me 😂also Greek and Hebrew 🙌🏽
Ah yes, Horus, who existed long before the Romans, was crucified! Of course!
This movie is as well studied as my essays in high school were.
Damn, you didn't do much research in High school then lol(not making fun of you btw. Making fun of the "documentary")
Zeitgeist really affected my life for a long time. It sucks young people in and it just proves that if you say a lie convincing enough, that people will believe it.
Exactly. Isn't religion a good example of that as well?
Yet this video nor you proved any of the lies though lmao
Hey Trent!
Just 10 minutes into this and I'm loving it! Please do consider doing a video on Hinduism. As an Indian with some basic knowledge of Hinduism, the rebuttals that I generally see from Westerners don't seem to be using accurate depictions of that religion. Hoping you could give a much better analysis.
Ex- Hindu here, though I’m now Orthodox. I’d love ana analysis on the false and dangerous religion of Hinduism.
If somebody has a good analysis of Hinduism from Christian viewpoint, go ahead and link it please (if no, Trent, you do you!)
I would love that as well! I have a hindui coworker and realized sadly that based on what he was telling me I couldn’t prove to him that Jesus was more likely real than lord Vishnu or whatever his name was.
@@joecardone4887 archaeological finding could prove Jesus more real than Vishnu actually
@@eternalbyzantium262 I have a question, what are the main beliefs of Hinduism, and how Hinduism relates to Yoga, is it because of the poses of the Hindu gods ?
I am sad now. I'd heard people mentioning 'Zeitgeist' as an argument against Christian beliefs and I had no idea they were referring to a documentary, I didn't know about it, I thought they just meant the concept of Zeitgeist. And these people were introduced to this documentary when we were in school, apparently. I can't believe this exists, it is so dangerous, the way they make it sound as if it were true is horrible, so confusing. It might be easy to rebut, but it's important to do it.
I remember when I was a teen and watched Zeitgeist. At that time I wasn't fully a Christian by choice like I am now, it was more of a cultural thing. But I was a lot into Egyptology and pagan myths and loved to read about ancient gods. One day I remember I was searching for conspiracy documentaries on youtube and found Zeitgeist. I watched like one third of the documentary and immediately found it suspicious since I knew about the story of Horus and he certainly didn't have disciples, let alone having 12 (LOL), I found it very amusing and stupid that they claimed Isis was a virgin since she had a husband named Orisis and I never found any parallel between Horus and Jesus while reading about the Egyptian myths. At that moment that I detected the first lie I couldn't tolerate it. I don't like being lied to in such a pretentious way, it makes me mad. Then I found out about Zeitgeist "moving forward" apparently it was a continuation. And there they talked about a new world order, a conscience awakening and stuff that really sounded like hippie beliefs and what the actual conspiracy theories warned about. There they also said meritocracy didn't exist and we're all condemned to be the same class as our family except if we deceive or do illegal things that we can change our class status. That was stupid to me because my family that were farmers and very poor during the 40's became upper middle class through hard work and saving money and investing in properties and stuff. I later found out not only these Zeitgeist documentaries are complete lies but they effectively come from new age beliefs that were promoted during the 60's and that come out of the theosophical movement within Bavarian illuminati, that freemasons were even afraid of them because of their occultism, they belived in astrology and the age of aquarius and stuff that really has not even astrological proof. And the Zeitgeist documentary is an exact reproduction of their beliefs..
I have a good friend who is a father of 3 that believes almost everything from this documentary. He would often go off on a rant about how my faith is a rip off of Egyptian gods. Glad I was able to find the origin of his beliefs, I don't know how I'll break it to him, or if he'll even listen to me. Thanks for sharing your story and attempting to clean up this mucky comment section.
Trent dismantles another hollow polemic full of sophistry.
Can you explain how one "honestly" debunks Zeitgeist without looking at the 197 footnotes in the Zeitgeist Transcript?
I didn't think so.
@@Maber01 mqte you just made a message and said I didnt think so get of your high horse 😂
@Skelley-Priest Your claim is lame and you can't back it up.
You said, "everything in this movie is a lie."
The transcript to the movie has a 197 footnotes that defend against your claim that everything is a lie.
You have failed miserably to look at even 1 footnote so you are a long way from proving 197 are all lies.
@DamnSon precisely. Yes there may be footnotes... but then one needs to investigate the footnotes! If we find that they are lacking, it is of no merit to have tons of footnotes. It's the quality which matters
@@nazgulskyrim7377 A believer is talking about high horse, thats rich. Who claims that he knows the mind of god? It doesnt get more arrogant, my friend. And believers are experts in making claims without backing them up with evidence or arguments. The definition of faith. Doesnt say the bible that you are sheep, anyway? Seems to be the truth. Following the shepherd without thinking too much about it, let alone look for evidence, for or against it.
I remember watching this trilogy as a young teen. The most insidious part of this documentary is that they presented some truthful elements (9/11, banking). But this is how they ended up sneaking in lies like saying Jesus was a pagan deity. Found it very strange at the time.
Ah, Zeitgeist. There's a false claim every couple of seconds in this one
Can you please cite from one of the 197 footnotes and back up your claim that Zeitgeist makes false claims?
I didn't think so.
@@Maber01 the footnotes arent anywhere on the internet so shut up bro
@@IndiaNumberOneCoubtry Here is the link to the Zeitgeist Movie Transcript which shows the 197 footnotes.
It took me less than 1 minute to Google this.
Now you can show your Christian Values and ask for forgiveness.
So, I have SHUT YOU UP BRO!!!
@@Maber01 ???
@@Maber01 Did you even watch the video?
This movie mislead me during my college days, i did not go to church for a year because of this, it scarred me so much that i become agnostic. But thanks to God i was brought back by the grace of God. Thanks for this Trent.
Its not even a sophomore level documentary, it really isn’t. It’s a fluff pop piece intentionally made as a hit piece on Christianity to appeal to naive and easily influenced school grade/sophomore students. I actually thought he would mention the Sasquatch at some point!
Appeal to Ridicule much?
@@Maber01The appeal to ridicule was deserved, though. Most zeitgeist arguments are ridicule and fully ahistorical
This video was so destructive to the millennial generation. We were poorly educated about ancient history and mythology. Very few were looking to really study this. Many found this as a good confirmation of their own biases and accepted it uncritically.
P. S. Anyone else annoyed by his confusion between “adorned” and “adored”? I noticed it twice! Once it was even written in a slide! 😂
Trent, would you ever consider addressing the Nietzschean critique of Christianity?
Nietzsche's critique of Christianity really shouldn't be taken seriously. He just heard a thought experiment from an ancient Greek philosopher that went something like if matter will always exist for eternity, then whatever has happened, is happening, and will happen will repeat infinite times for eternity. This is called eternal return and Nietzsche got scared of this and thought that if how he lives is going to repeat, he better make the best of it. So this eternal return became the foundation of his ubermensch, and slave morality and such. It's a philosophically garbage grounding to say the least.
@@danieljoyce6199 reading this beyond garbage 3 minute youtube video explaination of Nietzsche made me cringe and die. Please read On the Genoeology of Morality and actually understand what youre talking about you cringe pseud
@@mclkr9174 I did read the Genealogy of Morals. Nietzsche just is a pseud, he's not a good philosopher.
The thing with many pagan myths stories, is that they do convey meaningful (symbolical) truths of reality. The thing with Christianity is that these symbols aren't merely abstract, no longer, but became actualized through Jesus Christ... As it is written; The *WORD* (narrative structure of reality) became flesh and walked among us.
Nope, they don’t portray the symbolism of Jesus even
Minor correction at 4:10 it wasn't Apolo who carried the sun in a chariot, but Helios.
Wasnt it Apollo in the Roman religion?
I believe they are both names of the same diety
@@issemayhem
Not really,, Apollo was a separate deity associated with the sun, but never ran with the sun in a chariot, from what I've read. That story is exclusive to Helios.
@@elf-lordsfriarofthemeadowl2039
No, especially in Greek mythology. In Greek mythology, they are totally separate.
@@bearistotle2820 Apparently, in late antiquity Helios was often conflated with Apollo. So it’s probably inaccurate to say they were totally separate.
From what I've found, this and similar claims against against Catholicism are rooted in a 19th-century 'literary' work called "The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop. That work was referred to by Lorraine Boettner in his anti-Catholic work "Roman Catholicism" in 1962. Boettner and Hislop seem to be sources used by Dave Hunt in his anti-Catholic work "A Woman Rides the Beast". Those three books form the "bible" of anti-Catholic arguments, even though Hislop's work has been roundly rejected by intellectually honest researchers (for it's shoddy literary content and poor referencing), even non-Catholic ones. So, read up on those guys, then you'll know everything to expect from any anti-Catholic you might run into.
This is dumb. I remember the new atheist types tried to push this crap. I never really bought into it even though at the time I wasn’t all that religious
It's crazy how popular it was and still is though. I've heard the same things repeated often
There was a similar one called “The God Who Was Not There”. Watched after I became a non believer and it confirmed my suspicions at the time. A few year after doing some research, I realized I had been had.
I just ran into a Zeitgeistian argument
Ugh. I remember being hooked by this documentary hook, line and sinker back when I was in highschool. It has always been in the back of my mind since I converted. Thanks for doing this video! It is very helpful to put to rest my foolish, young highschool self.
Always the young ones.
This shit got me too as a teenager
This is needed. I actually ran into someone posting these memes a couple weeks ago.
You'd think something that was so obviously wrong wouldn't have such legs.
Yeah, you'd think, but the reality is they don't care a whit what those who know better would say.
They just cared about reinforcing the negative and uninformed biases against Christianity.
Con men only go after those who want to believe the con.
@@ironymatt Often true, but it is still useful to be putting this out there. The more embarrassing and exposed the con, the less likely dishonest people will emply it.
@@Cato229 You haved failed to acknowledge the Psychopathy in con-men.
Try Googling the top 10 careers of a Psychopath, #8 is Clergy.
Here is the Christian and the Con-Man's Motto: Never drop the con, tell the lie till you die.
@@Maber01 The existence of con-men doesn't magically make these false claims grounded in history or these other religions.
You just left a substanceless comment.
I would love for you to do a video on the so called "Dark ages".
Great rebuttal! I know some who have fallen for this.
Low hanging fruit, yes. But soooo many people buy into these arguments and misconceptions that they need to be talked about.
So, it is important.
You're always posting videos on things I'm looking into at the moment lol. God bless you Trent.
Trent, I'd love to watch a rebuttal video regarding Islam and their view on Jesus!
Don’t worry, there are PLENTY of rebuttal, debunk, and debate videos regarding Islam and their views on Jesus (just check out youtube channels like Acts17Apologetics, Apostate Prophet, and Islam Critiqued).
I wouldn’t be surprised if Trent didn’t make a video though, because 1. Trent is more-so focused on atheistic/anti-catholic videos and 2. in the Muslim apologetics scene thus far, Muslim apologists and their fans have a history in mocking, berating, and showering their opponents with threats and insults, and chest thumping before they even begin to carefully consider what their opponent’s arguments are. Not to mention that in many Muslim “debunking Christianity” videos, they do A LOT of what Zeitgeist does in this video-lying.
Trent, great job as always! An idea for a rebuttal video: Universalism! Would be really interesting to see you rebut David bentley hart or any of the other universalists out there since they bring up some interesting things to think about.
This documentary is honestly hilarious. Thank you for your work, God bless.
What part did you think was so funny?
Was it the part that says there is no evidence for Jesus?
Or are you so delusional that you think there is evidence for Jesus?
What is the evidence for the Infanticide that is stolen from Moses who stole is from Sargon?
@Skelley Skelley, you are a liar.
You said, "We have more evidence for Jesus than we do Alexander the Great."
Now try reading from a court document about Jesus from the New Testament.
You have zero evidence.
Jesus is a Jewish Man, living in Judea, in the 1st Century A.D.
What do the Jews outside the bible have to say about this Jesus?
Nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My college textbook, The New Testament, by Stephen L. Harris says, “With one exception, no Jewish writer [outside the bible] of the first or early second century alludes to either Jesus or the movement named for him” (282).
The only exception is Josephus. I find it Reasonable to Doubt Josephus wrote all of the famous passage because Christian Apologists argue that Josephus did not write the fraudulent parts of the passage, or what they call “Christian Interpolations.”
In a court of law, Josephus fails to: Tell the Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing but the Truth. LOL
As a matter of fact, there is not one credible Jewish reference that demonstrates that the Jews outside the bible, in the 1st century were even AWARE of the idea of a guy named Jesus that has anything to do with the New Testament.
There is no evidence without awareness.
7:08 - “Son of God” and “Sun god”: the difference between the Hebrew words for “sun” and “sun”
8:29 - Horus
10:02 - Is the death and resurrection of Jesus based on pagan religions?
11:55 - According to Trent, we *don’t* have Egyptian literature claiming that Horus was either crucified, buried for three days, had twelve disciples, baptized by Anup, etc.
12:30 - The source for such Horus claims.
13:00 - Horus’ mother (Meri) as opposed to Mary’s name in Hebrew (Miriam)
14:00 - What about the Greek god Attis? Isn’t his story similar?
14:32 and 14:38 - Was Attis was crucified and resurrected?
15:15 and 15:23 - What about Krishna? Is that a virgin birth? Was there a star?
15:50 and 16:20 - What about the Greek god, Dionysus?
17:43 - Was Dionysus called “King of Kings”, “Alpha and Omega”?
18:08 - Was Dionysus resurrected?
18:14 - What about the image of Dionysus being crucified? Was that a fake?
18:55 and 19:18 - And Mithra? Is there a difference between the Persian Mithra (before Christ) and the Roman Mithra (after Christ)?
51:37, 52:18, 52:30 - Joseph
Well the horus claims have basically be killed over and over cos there that bad
For attis ua-cam.com/video/S7-9aVdOKy0/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/Bq8fFw-oV3w/v-deo.html diyonisis or however its spelt idk
They keep saying that some Christian words kinda sound like other pagan words. Hey the word Easter sorta sounds like Ishtar, the pagan goddess. This is goofy. I could point out that the name Dr Seuss sounds similar to Zeus. Does this mean that the stories of Dr Seuss are actually copied from the stories about Zeus? It would be crazy to think so.
I ended up watching Zeitgeist either around the time I had a crisis of faith in primary school, or after I stopped believing in God early on in uni. It's jumbled in there somewhere, but that, along with Thunderf00t's "Why Do People Laugh at Creationists" video series, either led me to renounce my faith, or confirmed my bias after the fact. Either way, I was already emotionally predisposed toward the atheism movement of the aughts; if it sounded good and made me feel good, that was good enough for me in my late teens & early 20s.
I'm glad you did this. In my late teens and early 20's I was very caught up in the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project.
I really thought Peter Joseph had come up with an economic system that wasn't Communism but could replace Capitalism.
Eventually, the debate between Stephan Molyneux and Peter Joseph convinced me otherwise when Stephan wiped the floor with him.
It's great to see you absolutely bury Peter's ridiculous ideas about religion.
I was just getting into Scientology when I watched this for the first time so although the original video was very shocking, it didn’t shake my faith as I had already left Christianity years prior. I was watching the video a lot back then and I ALWAYS thought about this part of the Zeitgeist movie and always wondered if there was any way to verify the information in zeitgeist. Today I thought about it after years and googled it and found this video which applies to my EXACT question. Very interesting! I do feel there’s more to study though! But this video is a good starting point with sources to look into.
Mind blown, these rebuttals are fantastic! Thank you for taking the time to do them.
Hey Trent, little correction! It was not Apollo who was carrying the sun in a chariot around the horizon but the sun god Helios.
That's true, but it's also true about Apollo. These are two legends that were probably conflated later. The legend about Helios probably inspired elaborations on the legend about Apollo. The Apollo legend is that Zeus gifted a golden chariot to Apollo. Later on, we get stories about Apollo driving the chariot to bring light to the world (though not necessarily involving the sun). This motif was pretty obscure in ancient times but became popular much later in baroque paintings. There are all sorts of weird variants and extrapolations of Greco-Roman myth, both authentic and inauthetnic, throughout history. Especially among modern day conspiracy theorists
I let this documentary sway me from God for many years and I eventually came back to the church. God bless you Trent for helping me regain my faith!
your that dumb
For me, this isn’t even low hanging fruit. I needed to hear this one, thank you.
Thank you sir I’m someone who’s in the process of coming out Protestantism mainly because of the sola scriptura debates between James Whites and Tim Staples as well as James whites debate with Patrick Madrid. I’ve always heard the argument that Jesus was copied from older religions and this video helps to rebut that foolishness. May God bless you always 🙏
It’s funny to me that critics of religion always ADMIT that there are almost universally held beliefs and myths, but they never seem to consider that the reason this happens is because it is actually real and true and subconsciously understood by humanity
Right, I have thought the same thing myself. I don’t think this would service as a strictly Christian argument, but it could be put to use for the purposes of establishing a general proposition that there is a spiritual aspect to human existence. (One can of course put a Christian twist on it, but I doubt the church would approve of this line of reasoning.)
@@danieltemelkovski9828 yeah that’s why I’m disillusioned with religion in general the only explanation is that all religions are true
@@nostradamus2231 I think it's far too strong a conclusion to say "all religions are true." I would only be comfortable in saying they all (as far as I know) hit upon some aspect of reality which is available to us to experience, but probably never to truly "understand."
Agreed. Religious historian Karen Armstrong points out that despite atheists trying to get to some neutral “pre-religious” state of humanity, there is no historical precedent for such a culture. Today’s secular societies are the exception not the rule. It’d be generous to call it an experiment.
@@nostradamus2231 Most religion have some truths in them but only Catholicism has full truth.
A rebuttle of Dan Brown might be good too.
It's good to have a video to point people too if they bring this low-hanging fruit up.
Oh my gosh, I’ve taken several courses in ancient art history and one that specialized in the Ancient Near East and the amount of things Zeitgeist has gotten wrong in the spam of 15 seconds is horrendous. I’m over here thinking “did I fall asleep during that part of class???”
These arguments are always a mix of false claims and "omigish! Did you know Christianity uses some universal symbols, contains some universal methods of human expression, and is rich in themes that humans have always thought important?!"
Orthodox and Arab Christians celebrate Christmas on January 7, because we follow the Julian calendar.
It's almost as if the atheists behind the Zeitgeist video were trying to dismiss Jesus as hard as possible in every way imaginable.
Exactly 🤣
Imagine illiterate fishermen coming up with such a tight story and dying violent deaths to support their lie.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE VIDEO THE DOCUMENTREY ALMOST MADE ME ATHIEST
Wait. "Messiah" doesn't translate to "Saviour"... It translates to "The Anointed one".
thats the thing with translations. Only place ive seen that is the KJV. Seems every other definition, from like Jews says it means savior.
@@jhoughjr1 Okay... no idea. I only know that here in Germany people always say, "Christ" (= the Anointed one) is the Greek word for "Messiah". And I have heard matching quotations too if I recall correctly. But I guess the only way to find out would be to a)learn Hebrew, b)ask an expert or c)look it up in a dictionary. I might have a look at the internet - maybe I'll find an ancient Hebrew dictionary.
@@worldonfire6154 seems all the references I can find point to it meaning anointed.
Messiah doesn't really translate at all. It is the word to describe the saviour prophesised in the Hebrew Bible, of which there is only one in the universe. So the word makes no sense in any other context.
Great rebuttal! Also, it's not really "beneath your time" (as other may accuse you of doing) rebutting low hanging fruit because that low hanging fruit is grabbed by baby Christians who need to see videos like this!
Thank you, Trent! Awesome as always 🙏🙏🙏
This would be an important and useful book you might write, sir. You would surely do the subject justice and help to unconfuse souls, especially students.
At 0:31:00 ish, wow! The circle on the "Celtic cross" in free standing crosses from Britain and Ireland C. 700 - 800 developed because it provided structural security for the arms of the cross when they moved from incised crosses on slabs to fully recessed freestanding crosses, e.g. the Ruthwell Cross, the Gosforth cross.
That Zeitgeist chap astounds me with his general ignorance
Frankly, if this many religions did have such specific similar myths, it'd be enough of a miracle to make me take notice!
Excellent rebuttal!
Zeitgeist is an oldie! Reaching back for the classics on this one!
It had a knock off called Kymatica that was even worse.
When I saw that timestamp, I legit thought I wouldn’t sit through it all.
…and yet 1 hour, 4 mins later, here we are.
The guy who wrote that movie must be short...he's always reaching!
Aren't christians supposed to be humble?
@@billcarson818Are you assuming xdude736 is Christian?
What confuses me about religion critics is how the frightening similarities between religions throughout human history might be trying to warn us of impending doom and attempting to introduce some method to the madness to subvert some of the more ugly effects, rather than just flat-out ripping each other off? After all, like Trent just said, “If you hear trampling, it’s better to assume horses before you assume unicorns.”
Minor correction: At 25:40 you say the Magi did not follow the star, but it says at Matthew 2:9 "After their audience with the king they set out. And behold, the star that they had seen at its rising _preceded them_ (emphasis mine), until it came and _stopped_ (emphasis mine) over the place where the child was. Otherwise, so far, so good.
That one surprised me too.
But it's not their indicator
54:14 This is the most based statement and rebuttal i have ever heard from Trent, and thats saying something
Copyright claim on something saying everything is copied. Imagine the irony.
Even though this is clear fair use
The Zeitgeist pagan myth conspiracy is based on Acharya S and Kersey Graves... both have been debunked repeatedly, but there is a legitimate scholarly position on mythicism that should be addressed by Trent
I think the reason why so many people believe this obviously flawed myth is that they have no other option when it comes to denying Christ, and when they’re desperate to make a point, they’ll take anything no matter how devoid of logic it is. There’s the one channel called “Jesus Never Existed” run by Ken Humphrey, and I’d love to see Trent just tear into this guy’s content.
That's ass backwards in my case. I was so desperate to have a supernatural being that could help me out that I turned to Christianity. But Jesus wouldn't give me the things I prayed for. So I went online to do research into how to get better results with my prayers, and that's how I stumbled upon Zeitgeist. Zeitgeist opened my eyes to the reason WHY Jesus won't answer my prayers. It's because he just simply isn't real. When the debunking videos started coming out though, I knew I had to do research to find out who was right and who was wrong.
Long story short, Zeitgeist didn't get everything right, but it's also not quite as full as crap as debunkers often make it out to be. I'm not an expert in all those gods, but I studied the Egypt stuff enough to know that some of the stuff debunkers call out, is stuff that Zeitgeist actually got right. Not that I think of Jesus as being copied from Horus, but it's clear that a lot of the claims made about Jesus are just not original to him, and that he's based on an amalgam of different characters. It was normal for ancient cultures to appropriate each other's stories and to combine & syncretize gods. So it makes sense that we see it in the Bible too. It would be kinda weird if we didn't see it in the Bible.
@@ZeitgeistLegacy somehow I’m not buying you being an expert
@@aidan608 It wasn't for sale. I literally said "I'm not an expert." Doesn't invalidate my points though.
@@ZeitgeistLegacy Jesus is not supermarket where you ask stuff, especialy if you ask "wrong" stuff. God doesen't owe you anything. He just want you to surrender to Him freely and you will have blessing from Him, you need to trust Him because He knows what's best for you, but unfortunately our arrogance take best of us and we think we can do anything and we know better. Bless you 🙏🏻
@@ninodjuras I tried trusting him until presented with evidence that such strategy doesn't work to my benefit. I need results, not excuses.
Excellent video - thank-you for this and the other rebuttal video's.
Βest debunking video I've ever seen🤝👏👏👏 We all need to do do more research and not believe every stupid claim we read online
You are right. We all need to do more research.
The Zeitgeist Transcript has 197 footnotes, given that Trent did not cite 1 of 197 that is where we should start.
When Trent cites sources he Quote Mines. This is a Satanic diversion, and proves he has no interest in analyzing Zeitgeist sources which could verify Zeitgeist as being right.
There's this guy who did a series of rapid-fire responses to the video "the Jesus lie". He is so misled, whether from a Christian or atheistic perception.
I hope he finds some truth.
It is funny to me how people try to discredit Christianity based on worn out comparisons, purposeful ignorance of history, and lack of follow through with looking up sources. Not to mention assuming languages haven’t evolved and grown since the time of their conception. There’s many phrases and words that have changed over the years across many countries, with differing dialects in between such as the US coke vs pop usage.
It’s also interesting that the default assumption is Judaism/Christianity copied from pagans when sometimes it’s the complete opposite. Just shows the innate biases that can occur in data gathering and research.
Side note: I actually love reading different Flood stories because they’re quite interesting in terms of reasonings and what lessons the people at the time took from them.
The Epic of Gilgamesh has more to do with the main god disliking the unclean, noisy humans, and the only reason any human survived was because one of the gods warned them. In the end, the big god was mad but since the other gods were watching him, he couldn’t kill them and just made them immortal.
The Norse Flood myth is probably my favorite as it’s the fall of the giant Ymir and Odin and the other gods taking his body to creat Midgard (Earth).
Also, when I hear ‘Sargon of Akkad’ I can only think of the UA-camr turned podcaster 😂 I vaguely recall him mentioning purposefully naming his handle after Sargon in his gaming days, but it never clicked til I learned a bit of the realSargon of Akkad history. Just funny how everything connects sometimes.
If you really enjoy seeing all the different versions of a flood story try this one.
Dial a planisphere to 6 a.m. on the Winter Solstice Dec. 21st.
You will see the Milky Way flooding the horizon in all directions, thus completely flooding the earth.
On the north side you will see Gemini, as in two of everything, floating in the Milky Way. You can find this at 30 by 50 degrees of declination. The ark for the clean animals is Ophiuchus.
Enjoy.
Whatever Zeitgeist is smoking sure has helped him connect the dots.
Ive been agnostic atheist most of my life but have noticed something weird. At least where I am, Sundays always have had unusually nice weather. Idk if its all bias.
I always thought the same thing growing up. Not atheist, but it was kinda odd.
Same here, although since I live in an Arab country, it's Friday instead of Sunday.
I wonder why...
This channel was a great discovery... I don't agree with much of the content but it is very instructive
Zeitgeist here is absolutely mind-numbing. It was funny at first, but at this point the things that are coming out of this man's mouth are atrocious.
The local flood theory does not explain the existence of flood stories in the Americas and Africa. Definitely not local populations. What does explain it is that the flood really happened and the divergent stories are distorted versions of the memories of the single family everyone is descended from.
Loved this. It's good to alternate between quite popular objections to Catholicism and other more intellectually constructed.
I watched this movie a while ago, I liked many parts of it, but as a Christian I knew some of it was absolute garbage. Looking back on what I know now, this video was well done, thank you!
When I first heard that Jesus is “inspired” by other fates really shook up my faith. Thanks for disproving it.
Inspiring philosophy did a short series of disproving each claim of Jesus being a copy of *Insert god* good videos.
Yeah, now for feel silly for falling for that
I loved the commentary on the miracles of Horus when you said something like of course you would expect a deity to do miracles. Don’t even see the irony do you?
Yaaaas. zeitgeist is such a load of dunning-kreuger and lies. I had a roommate that thought it was a revelation.
The obvious explanation of the circle in the Celtic Cross is that it is a halo representing the divinity of Christ.
That's one of a number of symbolic meanings we could apply to it, you could also say it represents the eternal God, with no beginning and no end, but that's no why it developed.
(I'm a craftsman specialising in the period AD 700-1100).
Depictions of the cross from the period are mostly in manuscripts and sculpture. Most of the manuscripts don't have the circle.
Most of our sculpture (in Britain and Ireland) is in sandstone and if you carve a free standing crosses the arms will break off whilst you're making it, or shortly afterwards. You just can't carve a regular cross like that without it breaking. The circle supports the arms and stops them breaking.
Then symbolic importance is attached to it and you start seeing it in some manuscripts and incised on some slabs. The symbolic importance is good, and I'm not undermining it, but the practical reason (caused by God's laws of reality) came first in all likelihood
Trent please rebute Naked Astrology
I can't hear the name Sargon without thinking of Carl Benjamin.