How many times does the Doctor die in Heaven Sent? THEORY
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- In this video I do some number crunching and theorizing to answer the question of how many times does the Doctor die in Heaven Sent as well as working out how many punches he throws at the wall in total and more!
I hope you enjoy the video! If you have any theories for this episode then please leave them in the comments bellow and subscribe to keep up to date with all my new videos. Thanks.
Can we just appreciate the fact he punched his way through a diamond wall to just save Clara at the end of the universe?
It was way harder then diamond
Be like punching through 8000 ft of diamond.
Rhexxthe Greater exactly 400 times harder.
It was absantium
Azbantium. A twenty foot thick wall of azbantium.
Also he found a copy of his clothes dry when he was sopping wet, and swapped them out. Which means the first version put his wet clothes by the fire, then spent the rest of his time there naked O.o
Ha ha! Would’ve been funny to see him the very FIRST time he teleported there, with “strategic” objects and camera shots to hide his genitals.
A timelord has 2 hearts, is there any other part that he has extra of? Ha ha!
Why the fuck are you thinking about an alien's bollocks?!
Albert Nave, Because humans are disgusting!
@@TheEqualizer-iw1bz Roses mum makes that same joke when David Tennant as the 10th doctor is unconscious!
I think it is likely he found clothes. The castle appeared furnished with beds, tools and even food. The would the first Doctor to have gone through the castle have even left that room before the his clothes were dry? It's not like the monster was on his heels after that jump. At that point, he had no way to know the monster could track him anywhere in the castle
Dormammu, I've come to bargain!
except things changed and didn't stay the same...good job going for the obvious reference...
"You've come to die!"
"I don't want to go"
I always kind of headcannoned that the "billion, billion" hearts the Hybrid destroyed was it's own
"I'm going to name a town after you, a real rubbish one" "Oh I'm counting on it".... A town called mercy.
Interestingly enough if you assume the atomic structure is similar to most solids we know he would have about 7 punches to take away a single layer of atoms. This seems totally realistic.
But a punch doesn’t take atoms from the whole wall probably put stress fractures in it until particles flake off leaving very strong dust
But he doesn‘t Hit the Wall 8 times each, because the hole Gets bitter Over time, he has More time to Hit the Wall, Compared to the Version befor him, so the amout of punches cant be a Constant number, the Doctor wouldnt want to loose time
@@kuronu-kun1967 except the doctor doesnt remember anything, so yes the punches would be the same
@@Silva-avliS why would they be the same?
assumed he starts punching the wall, as soon as he reaches it, over time the veil would allways need a little bit more time,
as long as the doctor isnt getting slower with his punches, he should have more time the further he gets, it would be an exponential growth, 7 may be the average, but its not that he punches 7 times each time he is there, because that would be way to complicatet to work out, and you miss cucial information
@@Silva-avliS We don't actually know that, since it's implied he can actually remember, but only at the end when he's in Room 12.
Of course, we don't know for certain, but these two lines from the screenplay (and the episode itself) allude to the fact that he can remember the loop.
"That’s when I remember. Always then. Always exactly then."
"But I can remember, Clara. You don’t understand, I can remember it all. Every time!"
the other way to determine the number is count the skulls in the water
assuming he could build a bridge out of skulls he'd only find the outer wall of the confesion dial not necessarily a way out.
yeah well most people only have the one skull and they tend to be using it. the other thing is you gotta think if all those skulls are slowly displacing the water and causing it to rise will the water eventually rise so high it covers the entire castle? or will the confession dial become so full of skulls and remains there's no space left.
Simon Hulshof where are his other bones? He's got skulls everywhere, but i didn't see as many femurs or other bones
This raises a question for me. Those skulls that were in the water are the doctors skulls. So how is it that the doctor at the beginning of the episode didn't remember being killed and then rejuvenating himself in that machine? He remembered when he was punching through the wall.
He didn't remember, he deduced it.
Your punches calculation doesn't take into account that the deeper he went the more time to punch he would have. Also perhaps at some later year in the millions he would start to see the progress and not debate with himself but just get to it. Finally, the first version had to screw with the mechanics of the world, if only because otherwise the 12th room would reset all his progress otherwise. I also find it suspicious that the Timelords left the machine with the electrodes to burn himself with. That means the first version added that. This then opens the possibility that the first version wasn't hunted at all, but set it all up to force his future selves to breakout.
Steven Moffat claimed that twelfth room never resets as it's technically outside of the Confession Dial, or something like that
Based on a novelization of the story from the veil's POV, nothing was really resetting. The veil did all the cleanup, fixing the windows and such
@@AcrylicM we know it never reset because we watched the episode, it wasn't outside the confession dial though, it was just the very edge i suppose.
That's assuming he didn't take several hundred million years to finally find the wall. Escaping the traps, the falls, mister bright side who kept killing him with a touch, dead ends, wrong ends, bad ends.
The first doctor we see in the episode claims that he's 7000 years into the future, and by then we already see lots and lots of skulls of past doctors, so it's reasonable to assume that the time it took to figure out everything and find the wall was minuscule compared to the time that passed
Mister bright side? lol.
Not completely right for the 8 punches, consider if he's 25% the way through he's probably gotten time for a 9th punch, and 50% like 10 punches or so.
Good eye.
Conversely he could only get in 6 or 7 so 8 would be the average really
Also have to consider the wall weakening after such a long passage of time and the doctor coming to the realization that he is supposed to punch the wall after the damage he has already done becomes obvious quickly
Dear lord, that is a proportion question. MATH
Also, he didn’t just punch in one spot. He had to punch enough of an area that he could walk through it.
The eleventh doctor couldn't regenerate not because of his "old age", but because he was out of regenerations, the Time Lords can only regenerate twelve times (a limit probably in control via Rassilon) He had all of his "Doctor" regenerations (10, William to Matt) and his meta crisis regneration (Stolen Earth to Journey's End), and the War doctor. This means that after Hartnell there was twelve more bodies (2nd,3rd,4th,5th,6th,7th,8th,War,9th,10th,10th's second body,11th) Just had to mention that cause a lot of people don't know that but it was still an enjoyable video none the less.
he was given a new cycle by Rassilon. the monster in the confession dial was designed to kill him in a way so that his body would be unable to regenerate not because he ran out of regenerations. he's going to regenerate in the Christmas special so he must have more regenerations
Nilson Yeah he will probably regenerate eleven or twelve more times though infinite is a possibility
Raymondoswable it actually is because the last Lord President of gallifrey Rassilon had unlimited regenerations and he just became the new one
Right before peter capaldi becomes the doctor.
The 11th tells Clara that his young face is a temporary reset before the first regeneration af a newly given cycle starts.
Raymondoswable how do people not get that?
"YOU MIGHT THINK THATS A HELL OF A LONG TIME"
"... but I think that was a hell of a bird."
@@larsswig912 "But personally, I think that's one hell of a bird."*
Obviously, the more he punched through the wall the more punches he could get out of every so many cycles. So every meter let's say, he could add a few more punches before the veiled thing got him. But he wouldn't have spent a month in each cycle, too long, maybe a week. So, could be anything around 243 000 000 000 times.
Ken Wyatt also forgetting the times between the doctor burning himself and the new doctor being teleported in. The first death shows that the doctor’s body putrefied before the new doctor was teleported in to create that pile of sand/dust. This decomposition will decrease the number of doctors within that time period
Where's the first clothes come from?
i was thinking that to XD
Ken Wyatt he did take a month per cycle it was confirmed by the show writera
Raging Panda he said that one Doctor lasted a month I think that was meant to be an average of the ones we watched as some suicide and some would go the long way around.
Why didint he use the shovel...
Maybe timelord skeletal bone is harder than human calcium bones or the shovel. Never ever seen The Doctor with a cast on, considering the thousands of years he’s been running around saving the universe!
No way out
Realize this is long after your comment, but thought I'd leave it for future watchers... There's a super simple explanation. The Doctor is in a loop, and every time (presumably) he gets to the wall in Room 12 through roughly the same scenario. Meaning the by the time he solves the problem of reaching Room 12 The Shroud very close on his heels. He has no idea entering that room what it will hold, let alone the completely incongruous presence of a nearly unbreakable wall. Nothing would lead him to believe it would be there. He also shows quite a disdain for the shovel right out of the gate, so I can't ever imagine a version of the Doctor that slings the shovel onto his back for the entirety of the quest. (Note: In a semi-canonical story written from The Shroud's perspective, it reveals that The Shroud is actually rooting for the Doctor. It realizes that it's trapped as long as the Doctor is, and is not really interested in killing him so much as forcing him to confess to complete the maze. The Shroud keeps putting the shovel out so the Doctor will do just that even making in out of dwarf star metal, but the Doctor is too suspicious of everything and always rejects it. The Shroud finally gives up after a few million years.)
Adam Presumably up until it also notices how much progress the 12th Doctor has made after a few dozen million years, to which it probably awaits the day it can finally be free of it’s torturous existence in that booth.
If he lived all these billions of times, you have to figure at least once he tripped or something and regenerated into the 13th doctor
I actually think every version of the Doctor was there for the same amount of time, that the first time he arrived, he experienced all of the same things, after all the purpose of the Confession dial was to imprison the Doctor in a maze that his only escape would be to confess. When he reached the wall at the end, he mentioned that he was one confession away, this was intentional as the timelords felt that he would be more compelled to divulge his secrets to them if they gave him a way out. The Doctor stubbornly refuses to take it and opts to escape as he would later say, "the long way round". He scanned the wall with his sonic sunglasses and had to have detected that there was already 7,000 years worth of wear on the wall from his predecessors and figured out what was happening, hence why he started telling the story of the Shepard boy. The first time the Doctor arrived there he had most of the same clues left there by the time lords to force him into the situation where he must confess, the only two things that weren't present was the skull and the "BIRD" written on the floor. The skull was merely a reminder of the equation as the first Doctor to arrive left it when he died, probably the only one of the billions of versions of him that was uncertain of his plan and so he wrote "BIRD" so that the next one to arrive would see it and know the plan to reset himself works, removing the uncertainty he would have every time after the first. So the Doctor naturally through instinct managed to outwit what the time lords thought was an unsolvable puzzle that would only end with one outcome, they expected the Doctor to be rational and confess to gain his freedom, but they underestimated his resolve.
The later doctors got more punches as they/he managed to say more of the story
Jonathan Tanner, more story does not mean more wall. It just means more time to get through the tunnel he dug out for himself.
i don't think he would get that many more punches in actually. i recon eight would probably be the max amount he could do before stopping due to the pain.
the deeper he goes in the more he gets to tell the story, so that also means some iterations had more punches
Zero times. The Doctor's "transporter clones" were the ones dying. The Doctor who made it to the end simply walked through the portal without suffering.
I like your reasoning but I'm going the other way. Once. There is only one Doctor. The others, including the one in Hell Bent and subsequent events, are clones.
@David Sorell Nice pfp
I do believe the doctor said he remembered all of those previous lives in heaven sent, meaning he did absolutely suffer.
The Doctor: "THAT’S when I remember! Always then. Always...then. Always EXACTLY then. I can’t keep doing this, Clara! I can’t! Why is it always me? Why is it never anybody else’s turn?! Why can’t I just lose?!
"
He suffered, plenty of suffering from all those memories of his previous selves
all so the master tells us in The Sound of Drums that timelords live on average 900 years without regenerating
3:25
He couldn't regenerate because it was his last life. The time lords sent him more through the crack.
Yeah, I was thinking that
Until the timeless child ruined that pahaha
@@theswagman1263 It's never stated that the doctor currently has infinite regenerations, only that they did at one point. It's likely that the doctor was limited to twelve when their memory was wiped, just as tecteun did to all the other timelords upon realising an *infinite* life was too long for most people.
He didn’t punch in a single fist shaped line.. he had to fit his whole body through so it’s gunna be a shit tonne more
yeah obviously, but he just landed those 8 punches in different spots
@@Z3R0Steam The area of 8 punches doesn't add up to the size of the tunnel he made.
@@Gamer-g2v1r i aint gonna get in a 30 reply long argument about this so i'll keep it simple
every version of the Doctor probably punched in a different spot of the tunnel, which eventually stacked up to the entire tunnel
@@Z3R0Steam I know. Your "Yeah, but" just made it seem like you were disagreeing with OP.
For me emotionally this is one of my favorite episodes, the sheer determination of the Doctor to get out of this situation knowing the length of time it would take.
11ths age had nothing to do with the regeneration. He had already used all of his regenerations. 10 regenerated twice + John hurts doctor = 12 Regenerations meaning 11th was actually the 13th. Why do you think it was such a big deal that the crack in the sky opened and granted him a new regeneration cycle. Also in Hell bent Rassilon says to 12, how many regenerations did we grant you? Little details you need to think of
1-8
war
9
10
10
11
12
So matt smith is the 13th doctor or did it change, because of the 9th doctor not being there in the special episode
Which is completely irellivent, 11 was only granted more regenerations when he was on the verge of death from old age.
The 'Doctor' is a name he gives himself as a promise to the Timelord for him to keep. It doesn't always define him by his regenerations due to actions the Timelord has taken over his lives that nearly have made him renounce the title. e.g The beast below.
The War Doctor renounced the name of being called the Doctor because of the nature of the Time war which the 8th was avoiding at all costs to keep his title. But he realized he had to give it up the title to win the war and save the universe by committing atrocities in the war carnation that future carnations deeply regret about. John Hurt's appearance in the 50th anniversary special was the War Doctor's chance of redemption as well as redeeming the name even though his memory of it was lost.
Therefore the Doctor's regeneration appearances are referred to as 'carnations'.
His 9th carnation is the War Doctor, and the aborted regeneration that resulted in the meta crisis makes the David Tennant one- the 11th and 12th carnations. This makes Matt Smith the 13th and final carnation of the original cycle.
Jodie Whittaker who plays the 13th Doctor is the 15th carnation as well as the 2nd of the 2nd cycle.
I’m telling you, he was to injured to regenerate, the twelfth doctor.
KhalAce actually in time of the doctor, before the time lords granted him more regenerations, the daleks say to the doctor that he is dying probably because of his old age
The setup would also change eventually over time. You see the skull of the previous go fall from the ledge and join the other skulls in the water. The time it took for the skull to sink to the level of the others is not that high, suggesting either the sea is relatively shallow or the top of the pile is near the surface. Even if these skulls were crushed under the weight of those above them, you would still have skulls above the water long before you got through billions of versions (and hence had billions of skulls). The skull pile would then be visible to the current version and alter the nature of the puzzle and how long he had to punch the wall or understand what is going here.
That mean the “13/14th” Doctor is the 54,000,000,001st Doctor.
The thing is who actually brought him there first time, along with anything that happens specifically due to past doctors
"in case you don't know, or need a refresher." No worries there. We know. XD
An idea that came out of nowhere you say? Sounds like the work of a Silence!
I don't think that 11 couldn't regenerate because he was old, I think it was because it was his last regeneration in that cycle.
I just thought he was old because with was one of the few timelines where he's been able to live out his regenerations natural lifespan. (For example, war doctor was old from the start, but he lasted 400 years before he was "wearing thin") 11 was the youngest incarnation so a huge lifespan could be expected
John Lavery Well, age is kind of an inconsistent factor. I know we tend to think of Matt Smith as the youngest, but if you think about it, William Hartnell had the youngest starting point of any Doctor. He was the very first incarnation of the Doctor, and thus, was born as a child. And the first Doctor only lived 450 years before he died of old age.
The youngest I meant the age of his body
Yeah! Davids doctor was older than matts doctor at one point, 11 didn't regenerate because of his old age, he regenerated because he was given the regenerations and he decided to make a move by regenerating to defeat the daleks therefore he could have lasted longer but would have been very week like the 10th doctor was when the master turned him old.
+All Things Paper False. Matt Smith's Doctor himself says he's dying of old age. I'll remind you that 10s super old form (or Gollum Doctor as I refer to him as) was acheived through very unusual and unnatural means, and thus may have been keeping him alive (to be tortured and tormented).
Excellent rocking episode ! I absolutely loved it! Thank God Steven Mother returned as showrunner!
I always had my thinking's by the episode, it seems like, that the last room never resets, since the wall stays broken, when the doctor re-enters it all the time. So why didn't he take the shovels in the room, so he could use one for blocking the door and the over ones for smashing the wall? With that process, he would way less there, I think.
He doesn't want to risk losing the shovel. If the shovel, taken into the room with him, doesn't get re-set he loses a tool and a clue.
@@jacknimble932 And he doesn't have the time to go back and get the shovvel because the veil is right there blocking the exit.
You could've used the first Doctor's lifespan to determine how long an incarnation lasts.
My favorite episode ever
It took billions of years, so I would say billions of lives.
553,797,849 punches would take off roughly 0.5mm if anyone was interested
Peter - John Jones where did this number come from?
Raging Panda ... calculator
Hello but now I just the equation of punches per foot or meter now considering that the width and height also has to be taken into account not just straight 20 foot or meter situation considering it look like that was a fairly large opening that he had punched
I know this seems bad but we need to thank illness for making the series go on this long. If Hartnell had never gotten ill the show would probably only last about 7 years.
Why would you take the age of the 11th doctor in months when he regenerated away from the number of versions of the doctor? What's that got to do with anything?
if there is one unanswered question it is this
how in the bloody way Moffat killed so much characters?
The punches each version of the doctor gradually increases as each doctor gets further through it. For example the first version we see find it only gets about 3 punches which would mean that you are very far off the original number
If you didn’t watch the whole video for whatever reason, it’s a shit ton of times.
What is the volume of skulls in the pool? How deep must the pool be to contain all those skulls? Bonus** how fast to ordinary skulls decay under ordinary water?
trick question tho
time lord skulls and bodies are nothing but ordinary
Bones in deep water where oxygen is very low tend to keep in almost pristine shape. Nice for the archeologist.
12th Doctor is the man!
Yeah but how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?
I'm pretty sure that each one of the doctors regeneration will last for 1200 years, as Peter Capaldi said the that he was OVER 2000 years old. Also it would make a lot of Sense as the doctor can regenerate only 12 Times.
I think that your mileage may vary with each life. And some it may be based on inherent weakness of that particular body. The 1st Doctor (William Hartnell's) body wore out a little after only 500 years. The 11th Doctor (Matt Smith's) lasted over 1000. The War Doctor (John Hurt) wore his out, too, but we honestly don't know how long he was alive, as the Doctor's age count went from the 950s In Season 24 (1987) to 900 in Series 1(2005).
I don't get where you get the assumption that the Doctor expended their entire lifespan in the first cycle. The first cycle was obviously much longer, but there's no way it was even one full year. The castle isn't *that* big.
Seems to be once every 12 hours for 4.5 billion years. 730 times a year times 4.5 billion years.
That comes to a total of 3,285,000,000,000. 3 trillion 285 billion times. just in this episode alone. +13 deaths for his previous incarnations.
Shaden0040 you're even more fucking stupif then this man
False assumption: the Doctor wouldn't have become an old man before he set up the clues the first time, the Veil would never have allowed it. Since we see that the Doctor basically reacts the same every time (even when he thinks he is being surprisingly spontaneous), he will have reacted pretty much the same way the first time. He won't have left the shovel or the clothes for himself, and he won't have found the word 'BIRD' or the specific clue about room 12 - but pretty much everything else will be the same, and those elements won't have taken years to resolve. The 54 billion guess is pretty good - one or two statistically anomalous runs won't change it significantly..
Yes but the 10th doctor was older than matts doctor at one point, 11 didn't regenerate because of his old age, he regenerated because he was given the regenerations and he decided to make a move by regenerating to defeat the daleks therefore he could have lasted longer but would have been very week like the 10th doctor was when the master turned him old.
"I lose track. 1200 and something, I think. Unless I'm lying. I can't remember if I'm lying about my age. That's how old I am".
That was a reference to his full age at the time, regeneration and and all. Not a reference for how long his body can last before he has to regenerate without fatal injury. I'm guessing that was the question? And its 900 yrs they can live without regeneration I believe, various sources but the one that springs to mind that's most recent, that you'd proly remember, is when the master turned him old he said "I'm going to suspend your regeneration and make you live out your whole life, all 900 years".
11 regenarated as he was dieing of old age matts Doctor even says this in the ep
He can do more punches every time de wall gets a little smaller because it takes more time to get closer to him to kill him
MY OWN THEORIES & THOUGHTS TO THIS QUESTION ABOUT THIS EPISODE OF (DOCTOR WHO)
My best guess is that (The Doctor) created a cloning chamber when he first got to where he was at; An once there time after time he had cloned himself, and each one clone regenerated himself two billion times in 43 billion years in this story of within this episode of (HEAVEN SENT).
Now the reason why I theorize a cloning chamber is because of how the machine looked, and to add how it is designed with a special type of device that fits on (The Doctor’s) head before his body turns into dust; An so I imagine that the device that fits on (The Doctor’s) head is a type of memory device, and i it has a limited amount of memory that it is capable of collecting, and then transferring to the machine before his body turns to dust in order for the clone to be given a certain amount level of memory, and to add the rest is all of his super high level of intelligence.
So this way it would make a proper amount of sense to why (The Doctor) continuously repeated everything he does throughout the whole entire time he is trapped within the mysterious place of the story episode titled (HEAVEN SENT).
You don’t understand regeneration? Or how he would have gotten way more punches in as he got further through the wall?
Once every 82 minutes for 4.5 billion years, if you ask me.
remember 82
the wall is 20 feet thick when he has been punching it for 7000 years (this is the version we follow in the episode) it's very possible that he was scanning the thickness of the middle, the bit he was punching away, meaning it could have started thicker
I understand and agree with your math except for the part where you tried to tie his average age as the OTHER doctors to add in that math and when you believed that the 11th doctor couldn't regenerate because of age. it wasn't his age that stopped his regenerating, it was the fact that timelords only have enough artron energy to regenerate 12 times unless given more harvested from the time vortex by the high council of gallifrey. and when you tried to calculate his age, you based it on what the doctor SAID his age was. Steven Mophat has already said that the doctor reset counting somewhere in his life because the number was too high. the doctor even said in the 50th anniversary that he doesnt remember his age. so that's 2 age resets! yet you only counted one of those, and divided it by 12. thing is, the doctor in the episode is CALLED the 12th doctor, but he's really the 14th. the war doctor and the 10th doctor's second version count as regenerations. you forgot to count them all (dividing by 12 instead of 14). even though your whole age calculation is preposterous) AND you tried to count all of his ages as the same length (which doesn't work because they all lived different lengths and died of different reasons, EX: 10 loved 200-300 years approx and died of a dalek blast to the torso, 10.5 lived a few years and died of radiation poisoning, 11 lived 500 years approx. and died of old age because he ran out of regenerations, and 12 lived 800 years approx. and died of multiple cyberman shots and a ship explosion), and THEN you used his average age before entering the confession dial, to calculate how many more doctors there were in total, which is a horrible calculation because you ALREADY HAD THE NUMBER IN YOUR FIRST CALCULATION! and then, you use that number that's wrong, to calculate the rest of it, making all of those numbers wrong, in turn, making everything passed your first calculation, wrong. I do agree that there is some question in their amounts because of the clues and things he left behind, but you can't calculate that time for a single doctor out of 54 billion. it would be so minute, it wouldn't matter. in total, i'm pretty sure that the only equation here that is correct to canon math, is your first one finding that there are 54 billion doctors in the confession dial at the end of the episode. -1 if you're counting deaths / non escaped. even then, 4.5 billion years is just an estimate, nobody knows the exact time, so, it's just as close as a guess.
I spotet that mistake aswel.
But when I tried to calculate, I got that it would take him 28 100 000 years to make the whole tunnel and escape (± 100 years till old age for the first one)
good thing the wall doesnt reset like the rest of the castle lol
I still don’t get why he wouldn’t punch, then leave the room and lure the veil away to come back (at a maximum of 84 minutes) with some sort of tool.
This is the biggest time in his 2 centuries of life the phrase (work smarter, not harder) would apply
Would that work? Would the punches have any effect?
I'm honestly not sure! Here's a link I found to a Radio Times Article which looks at your question -www.google.co.uk/amp/www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-11-28/doctor-who-heaven-sent-your-questions-answered-and-that-tricksy-plot-explained/amp/
I hope this helps! Thanks for watching the video! ☺
Definitly. I you wash water over a rock for a very very very long time, the rock will have been reduced to dust.
I just remember hearing in geology that a harder material does not wear down when it comes into contact with a softer material or something like that. This is why your teeth don't slowly chip away as you eat food.
Shaun Rosenberg You are right. But over a very long time, the water carries the stone away in tiny pieces. And a fist is way harder than water
"Would that work" I know what I'm procrastinating over to find that out now.
The first time we see the doctor he says the stars are off by 7000 years and the clues are already there, so the max you could take off right off the bat is 7000 years if you assume we see the second teleport/clone doctor
You do realize your suggesting it took the first version of the doctor more than 300 years to think of a strategy to find a way out.
This calculation suddenly made me remember that one time kirito and eugeo had to cut down the devil cedar. From how i remember, the devil cedar have roughly 1bil durability and using the draginbone axr, the one axe with high enough authority level to deal 1 damage to the cedar, the initial calculation is that 5 generations of woodcutter have dealt around 150k damage already to the cedar. When kirit was asked to debug thr underworld he was using the axe and dealing 1 damage till that fateful day alice was imprisoned. When he returned to it when he got injected with the poison decades have passed so ill assume eugeo alone dealt aroun 1k damage to it. Im just using this as an analogy because we can assume the wall has similar property, having high durability but low authority level that a punch could damage it.
There's something called "significant digits" I feel I should point out here. When you are estimating very large quantities, it is generally poor form to go beyond 3 or 4 significant digits (digits where values are given rather than zeroed). The reason behind this is due to margin of error. If you have a 0.1% margin of error, then your estimate is only worth calculating to three significant digits. But if you give a staggering _twelve_ significant digits, then you'd need an impossibly small margin of error. In the case of the "we estimate 4.3 billion years" that is actually just two significant digits. Thus, any calculated result probably should not be given beyond 2 or at most 3 significant digits.
Also, and this is even more pedantic (:P) is the fact that sometimes, damage dealt calculates to precisely zero. I'm pretty sure this would be the case with punching a material hundreds of times harder than diamond. Zero times a trillion punches still equals zero damage. But that's the show's fault in alluding to the idea that a punch somehow damaged that wall anything more than zero percent.
3:49 The Siege of Trenzalore was 900 years.
No one ever equates that a Galifray year is longer than an Earth year.
So is the Doctor we're watching now just a clone? Or was the fact that the whole thing took place inside his confession dial mean that the entire thing was a sort of simulation similar to what one experiences in the (Gallifreyan) Matrix?
Brilliant Question blackphoenix77! It is a very difficult one to answer. I've done some research and thinking and believe that the Doctor may be a clone but a clone isn't really the right word - he can remember the events when he finally escapes the dial and has all memories prior being trapped in the dial. The Doctor also has the same body to when he first arrived just the molecules have been reset. He has the same molecules that made his original body and consciousness and memories he is a close to the Doctor as he can be. It may have all been a simulation of sorts it's honestly difficult to tell. Another unanswered question from the wold of Doctor Who. All we can do is theorize but your ideas are the best I've seen.
that's what I've been wondering, if that's the fact, the original is dead, and I that case, not as superior
I saw it not so much a clone, but a teleportation matrix backup that was reloaded. Like the time in Star Trek: TNG when Scottie was stored in the memory of a teleporter and downloaded by Geordi.
+jibtwo that's kind of what I was hoping
Cloning is genetic copying and there wasn’t any.
Remember that The Doctor was teleported there!
The Doctor (not verbatim) said something about using his dying body as a power source to force the teleporter to replicate himself using the image left in the teleporter’s pattern buffer memory (thanks Star Trek).
Each replicated incarnation is therefore exactly the same as the original in age, memories, everything!
The Doctor has already died twice; he died in a crash but was revived by the Sisterhood of Karn, then got eaten by a Reaper. Turn Left doesn't count, that's an alternate timeline and not a linear continuation
He got more punches in at the end because of how slow the thing was. This means the most reliable way to find out would be a measurement of how long the chamber was and the length of time to punch through diamond *400
Couldn't you figure out what the materials' physical properties were like in comparison to diamond? That would be really cool to know
If the lake was that full of skulls when he jumped in after 7000 years, surely by 4 billion it wouldn't even be a lake anymore?
But, the further the Doctor got through the wall, the more times he could punch the wall before the Shade caught up to him.
And not one of them ever gave up. None of them decided to drown or take the easy way out.
Easily the best 12th Doctor episode.
My main problem with the episode is the skulls. There would eventually have been a point where the Doctor just slams into a solid layer of skulls (and stools and glass shards)when he leaps from the window and dies. In stagnant water with nothing gnawing at the skulls, they don't decay fast enough.
If you use that math each doctor life is only worth one atom lair
He was in there 4.5 billion years, the loop lasts about 2 days so that's about 183 per year. 823.5 billion times but it's probably a little a couple billion more due to the year not splitting into 2 evenly. And one or 2 extra to make a loop.
considering the fact you didn't count the age he said to the other Doctors on the Day of the Doctor, the fact that the last punch went through an uncountable lenght that would make a difference, the fact that you can't be sure that it was just one doctor that left the clues, and the fact that to make that picture of Clara there would have to be one version that lasted years between leaving the teleporter and years between versions that may have different years or even centuries added to them and finally we aren't even sure how old the Doctor was then, it could have been more years or maybe a couple of centuries.
This is very useful video for when I am buried in my diamond coffin. Now I know exactly how many punches I need to break free from it 🤣🤣🤣
If one guesses that an adult Time Lord skull is the same weight of a human skull at about 2.2 pounds, then the final total weight for all the skulls of the Doctor should be about 59,399,985.6 pounds. The equivalent of 9 Great Pyramids. Imagine the energy that had to be converted to Mass to make that much!
Saitama would have needed 1 punch.
even with the stupendous character saitama I doubt one punch would do it all a 20 ft thick wall made out of a very strong material that took an average man 43200000000-ish punches I doubt saitama could do that besides just krillin alone could slap saitama to hell let alone goku.
you cant compare that stuped saitamto goku
Remember Saitama once one punched a solid stone cliff way over 20ft thick
And did it quite lazily
Yeah STONE not a material x400 tougher than diamond
Saitama would annihilate that wall, that is literally the point of his character.
Saitama would annihilate the whole castle.
with how many times he had to punch that diamond looking wall im guessing its in the millions
TotalSiction trillions
One has to remember the Doctor is a Time lord, he is a humanoid alien from planet Gallifrey and that his physical punching power maybe different to that of humans on Earth.
Once, because the Doctor users his Regeneration to activate a machine to lock onto himself from his past that’s brings him back to try again and again it’s pretty much Groundhog Day for the Doctor....
No ita fucking not. The way the telwporter worked was by taking a scan of the doctor, disassembling every atom of his being and then creating a perfect copy of him with all memories intact at the teleporter. Each time he died he would tell the machine to xreate a copy of himself from when he first arrived and would burn his body as fuel
Uh, the punches each time would have increased each time. We know this because every time he starts punching, he’s a bit further away from the veil, otherwise he wouldn’t get any further with his seconds in eternity speech.
Maybe each time the Doctor punched the wall his punches would maybe equal to the power equivalent to 10 average human punches, and that maybe one punch was more effective than say his 6th punch which might be equal to 5 average human punches and then his 10 punch which is maybe equal to 8 average human punches was better than his 6th punch so each punch is probabilistic in its damage to the wall.
The trials and tribulations the Doctor has had to endure throughout his long long life is beyond our comprehension.. this is a prime example of that.
Also to the point. I think Doctor mentioned in this episode that bird scratches the wall every hundred years which lowers the amount of deaths. Not sure how did he figured out that.
11 didn't have his ability taken away by old age. He was at the end of his lifw due to not having any regenerations left
This is a linear calculation, if you practice at something like a maze you only get faster at it over time, also the clues developed over time, there must have been more and more added to achieve the required outcome from multiple paths, I know we only saw the one repeated chain of events, but the doctor is too smart to just create one, if something when wrong then there would be multiple versions that lived as long as the first one, so maybe the length of time survived by each doctor in this episode should be exponential instead, which would greatly lower the number of deaths explored in this clip. Also the impatience of anyone observing him would effect the veiled monsters duration over time by decreasing its wait time causing the need for reset.
but if I'm not mistaken, the clues reset each time though right? So the multiple paths idea can't work since once the next doctor comes around, he will have only done one path and reset the clue for that path only.
Then, yes the clues could still be refined over time, but remember the first doctor might have taken much much longer than all the others. So he could have perfected what clues to give by thinking about it for lets say even just 1 year. When the next doctor comes around, and solves it, he is not going to take an even longer time to think of a better possible clue. (remember, this is the same doctor, same thinking processes) they'll just repeat it trusting that the original (they themselves) has already come up with what they could do best.
(of course, it is possible that by random chance a few times things went wrong/ exceptionally right. but it is hard to set up an accurate standard deviation for this given our limited amount of data. So assuming the first (and perhaps a few more random) took a long time, and the rest averaged about a month, might be the best way to calculate this. :)
Youre a dumbass
Don't forget that some didn't make it to the final room remember the groundhog day suicides off the tower so the idea that he had to use his head to reset is not true so there may have been some that were shorter and some that were longer
Not to mention that the hole the doctlr punched was the size of him so wouldnt he have had to punch the sides aswell, point in case it was a lot more than 54 bilion punches that he punched
Zero - he was got by a form of weeping angle that kept sending him back to the start. Simple really.
It occured to me the the deeper he punched into the wall at some point he would buy the time to do 9 punches and so on. Even so the numbers are mind boggling and thank you for this experience.
You think he did 8 punches each time? Even when The Veil had to walk further and he told more of his story??
The punch number is wrong.
Every time he goes deeper in the wall, it's that much longer before the thing kills him. Each death that much closer to upping the punch count.
Alright nice, got some data to work out some stuff. Anyways, since I can’t find it anywhere online does anyone here know how fast the Minecraft player can punch a block? I.e. punches per second or other increment of time. Might as well outright say what I’m trying to calculate here, let’s just say that if a doctor who Minecraft mod were to include a block of azbantium that was coded to be faithful to the episode, how long would it take for the player to mine it using only their fists? For reference, Minecraft does allow for blocks that take a very long time to mine barehanded, last I heard you could mine through obsidian with your fists but it takes 26 minutes to do.
I was originally gonna try and find out how much time of the 4.5 billion years was specifically spent beating on the wall, but I didn’t know how long each 'cycle' was till now.
0:57 If you think because she is dead, I am weak, you understand very little. If you had any part in killing her, and you are not afraid, then you understand nothing at all. So for your sake, understand this -- I am the Doctor, and I'm coming to find you. And I will never, ever stop.
So, in conclusion, a single punch would chip away mere 71 nanometers. If anyone thinks thats a lot, just imagine 7 centimeters and divide that by a milion. It actually seems plausible.
I wonder how this ordeal compares to the traumas of the Last Great Time War ?
This just cemented how dickish Rassilon was. That he would torture the Doctor like this when he had saved the Time Lords multiple times over marked Rassilon as being totally irredeemable.
In regards to The Doctor's age, he did decide to restart his age to 1, because his actual age is confusing. So, there no telling. It is unknowable how long a time lord can live.