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Why Manu Ginobili Should've Been The 2005 Finals MVP ©
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- Опубліковано 1 гру 2017
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#Ginobili#2005NBAFinals#MVP
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You're fucking high to think Duncan didn't deserve it
He didnt win It cause nba people are butthurt for athens 2004
Martin Benavidez Never thought about that
🤔🤔🤔
Word.
That makes total sense!!! cause that would only make Ginobili look even more dominant and make the NBA players look bad totally agree never thought of that.
Jaja que forro
Good point
In the fourth quarter of game 7, Tim simply refused to let the Spurs lose. I could tell from his body language that we were going to win it! Boom...! MVP!
10-27 is refusing to lose?
@@nikosvault you didn't watch the game. Duncan wasn't losing even if he had to take 100 shots. Best PF ever
While I totally agree Manu should have been MVP, Tim was playing on 2 sprained ankles and plantar fasciitis against the 2 Wallace's. Worth remembering, it was a gutsy as hell performance.
Plus the defense was geared to stop him
Plus Tim’s defense was next level which is why he locked up the MVP
@@sed1589 he still should shoot above 45% from the field since he shoots mostly near the basket and he tall his a power forward, but he shoot poorly at 42% fg, a below average shooting for a shooting guard... ginobli was shooting 49% and its like he was just doing lay ups and dunks to get that field goal percentage of a center or power forward,, very efficient
I definitely do agree with this video; however it doesn't matter who's the mvp. Manu is so grateful for what tim has done for him. Manu is such a humble man. At the end of the game team success is more important for him him than any self recognition. That's why he is loved by many. Including me, a fan all the way from philippines 🇵🇭
gurl rockz they dont care whos the mvp all they want is win a champion as a team
It matters whether you can join the GOAT pyramid:)
Actually, it does, it helps overrate duncan especially in the top 10 GOAT rankings
I always thought that at the least it should of have been co mvp with duncan and ginobili. Ginobili was huge in 2007 finals and 2014 finals as well. It always seemed like if manu ginobili played great then the spurs would win the championship. He was their difference maker and still is.
duncan was by far the most impactful player
it's kind of like the cavs with bron and irving, bron was always consistently great, but if irving turned it on they had a shot against anyone
He cost them the 2013 NBA finals
Ginobili was trash in the 07 finals
@@kylemonsterdrywallfistbump5948 So was Duncan offensively
Manu Ginobili is HOF
no shit sherlock
i've always thought that the NBA wasn't ready for an argentinian at his 3rd year in the league could be finals MvP. I think it was political (Parker won it in 07 in a LOL sweep at his 6th season) but we'll never know. Nobody thought Ginobili could be so huge in the NBA and now, after 15 seasons we still have the privilege to watch one of the greatest players of all time by skill and by career achievements combined.
faccosh 264
Tony Parker dominated 2007 finals.
No politics in play here. Trust me iv watched it a few times lol. Tony Parker owned the paint, and cut the Cavs in pieces.
I actually said this back in ‘05. Manu should have been MVP of the Finals, not Tim... I actually would have even been happy if they could have been co-MVPs.
Tim was going against Ben Wallace that’s why he wasn’t so efficient
and so was ginobli, driving to the basket where ben and rasheed wallace stands.. both of those big guys defended the rim very well against the likes of kobe and dwade but not against manu in that series,,
@@aeriskabkr1110agree
I loved watching his tricky play, crossover and a killer left hand finish, everyone know his going left but NO one can stop it. AMAZING..
Great work as always, but I don't think you captured the full scope here.
Manu didn't get finals MVP because he was the x factor, and not the anchor. Manu was HUGE during the 4 wins, but he disappeared during the other 3 games. Duncan averaged 23.3pts & 14.5 reb during the 4 wins and was still a productive 17 - 13.7 during the 3 losses. Manu averaged 22.8 pts & 5.5 ast during the wins and dropped to 13.3 pts & 2 ast during the 3 losses. It's MVP for the entire series, so the voters had to look at all the games and not just the Spurs' wins.
This also doesn't factor defense where Duncan is an anchor. He held Rasheed to his lowest PPG out of any series in the playoffs that year and had a better defensive rating than Manu over the 7 games.
Great research on your part, and I love watching the videos. I would have rather seen your effort on one where a guy actually got screwed like Bird when Maxwell won or Duncan when Parker won MVP. This was one where both guys were deserving.
Why did Duncan deserve it over Parker?
@@cham807 Duncan beat out Parker in all stats outside of scoring. TD had more rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, and 1 fewer turnover than Parker. Duncan was also a defensive force the entire series.
There was really no question in Duncan getting finals MVP through 3 games, but then he put up a real stinker in game 4 with only 12 points on 4/15 shooting and had 6 turnovers. Despite that, he still had a better plus/minus on the last day than Parker did.
Tony was crazy efficient shooting, so it wasn't just volume scoring. However, that is the only thing Tony did that series. Duncan shot 50% from the field the first 3 games while averaging 20.3 ppg, and still had an 18.3 average at the end. When you factor every other aspect of the game including defense where Duncan has a huge advantage, I don't know how Tony Parker's MVP can be justified.
Manu was the best player in 2005 run and he was a great defender all his stats in that run was superior to Duncan ,y’all give Duncan credit even when he’s mid and also Rasheed Wallace was never a offensive threat dude averaged 13 and like 44 percent shooting in his playoff career lmao y’all like to give Duncan all this extra credit when he’s mid and than the same people say Tim Duncan is underrated but he’s in everyone top 10 and say Kobe is overrated for certain reasons which can be true but don’t criticize others or say ohh why didn’t kg win more if he’s as good as Duncan when Duncan can literally be mid and win reminds me of Tom Brady smh
dude,, duncan was only high on points, rebounds and blocks,, and the rest of the stats ginobli was higher than duncan. Just want to point out that duncan average 20 ppg shooting 42% from the field while ginobli average 18 ppg on 49% shooting but ginobli played fewer minutes than duncan. That's how efficient and more valuable ginobli was than tim duncan in that series
What about iguadala over curry if the whole series your talking about? 😂😂
You are absolutely on point on this video. I also thought back then that Manu was the true MVP in that series.
Well he wasn't Duncan got him wide open shots and opened up easy lanes for him. Leading Scorer and by far the best defender. Ginobili's defense was average and he aside from one of 3 games on the road didn't show up. Duncan had to deal with those tough monster defensive players in the pain while rip Hamilton and tayshaun prince helped try and cut off Duncan from the weak side leaving ginobili wide open
MANU is Argentinian, they would never vote for someone like outside USA. Manu is the most under rated star of the NBA for at least the last 10 seasons. I love Tim Duncan, he is a true star but Manu is right up there, look what is doing at 40 Years old....
Cluster Ofgeeks Tony Parker is from France and he won finals MVP so that is invalid.
So Dirk
Argentina won Athens 2004... Maybe that was enough to not give to Manu the MVP
MICOLE WHYTE
France never ever defeated the Dream Team too much pride to swallow and give it to Sudamerican who has 2 times
duncan was way beter than manu
There is an argument, maybe, but you can’t tell me that averaging 4 assists per game can offset Timmy grabbing 14 rebounds per game agains that Detroit frontline.
I watched that series and totally agree that Manu should have been finals MVP- they should have an added metric for intensity -
RC Buford later admitted that at the very least Manu should have been co-MVP
Manu should have been Finals MVP in 2005 or co MVPs with Duncan because he was a beast during 2005 NBA Finals against Detroit! He should have got recognized more. 2007 Manu was also clutch against Cleveland too. I didn’t mind Parker winning Finals MVP or Duncan winning it but Manu should have won a Co MVP with them because he’s 1 of the Spurs BIG 3 lol!
Being a born in s.a. and spurs fan its an open secret here that many knew manu was the real 2005 finals MVP he was unstoppable that year he made the killer pass to an open horray in game 5 at Detroit won by one after pistons took duncun out of the game in o.t. had good game 6 and scored more points than Timmy game 7 but there was a critical point in that game 7 where we were down 9 late in the third and duncun just went off on Detroit on offense and defense while being double teamed so I honestly felt thats why Timmy won I promise you this neither Tim or manu cares about this at the end of the day what a team they had that year.
I read this exatly text somewhere the point is Manu really doesn´t care about it he did a great job and that´s it
It‘s because of Athens 2004
duncan was the spurs best scorer, rebounder, and defender
How the hell can a spurs fan say Duncun?
@@gastonyamauchi1411because Duncan was the best Ayer. Best Scorer, and by far the best defender. Duncan set the tone and gave so many open lanes and open shots to Manu it was rather an easy choice. Duncan dealt with both Wallace's on 2 sprained ankles and planter faschitis (spelling) the defense would collapse on Duncan giving ginobili so much room to work with. Also Ginobili didn't show up on the road and played average defense
I thought Duncan was more impactful than Manu in game 5 with his 26 points. They certainly wouldn’t have won that game without all those points, even if he did choke. And to get them out of that hole in game 7 while Manu got most of his points closing out the series with FTs and a clutch 3 pointer with an assist from Timmy
There is another fact of why Manu should be the MVP of the finals. Ginobili was coming to play from the bench, and play less minutes than Duncan
Manu was a baller during the finals but Duncan was clearly a dominant player on both ends and wasn't even carried by manu and tony parker
Manu definitely has an argument for FMVP, and a good one at that, but he was DREADFUL during the road games. And you just can't ignore Duncan's impact on the defensive end and on the glass, it absolutely dwarfs Manu's
Facts
try to see the stats, most notably the minutes played the field goal percentage of both players and the difference between the average ppg.. compare the two player's stats in that series 😂
@@aeriskabkr1110The pistons defense was gear towards Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan's defensive impact alone was crucial while Manu's perimeter defense was average at best. Numbers by far don't tell the whole story. Imagine if the pistons defense was geared to stop ginobili. He would not have anywhere bear the impact he had
@@kylemonsterdrywallfistbump5948 ginobli had a field goal percentage of around 49% in that finals series and he's a guard but having a field goal of a center or power forward who mostly shoots near the rim and duncan was like 42% from the field a below average field goal percentage of a guard... ginobli was driving to the basket where ben wallace and rasheed wallace always stood, and the one who was cheking him was like tayshaun prince and rip hamilton... the only stats duncan was higher over ginobli was points, rebounds and blocks, the rest of the stats ginobli was higher.. and duncan was just 2 points per game higher than ginobli,, and ginobli played fewer minutes compared to duncan,, who's more efficient?
Those Tim Duncan numbers are decent/good if u are going up against a backcourt of Rasheed, Ben and Prince in their absolute prime and Duncan's defensive presence greatly reduced the trio's offensive efficiency on his end.
20 MVP that's true he was MVP
Because America/NBA wants an American player..but Manu is Manu.. Ball dont lie!! We are not stupid.
The way he pronounces names and says certain words, it sounds like a commentator in an old school NBA 2k game. . .haha
Great video though!
I just want to say that duncan was injure since the supersonics series and still give 20 10 with great defense and incredible vision moving the ball, i love manu way to much but still timmy was the one making the paint a hell for the pistons (that year spurs had two of the best defense... without d rob) and making the defense collapse in the post over and over again leaving lanes and 3pt shots open, i would have like manu with a fmvp But duncan earned it way more imo btw prime manu was a monster and should have been 1st or 2nd all nba But not enough minutes and kobe shooting a billion more times with a crappy fg% Is way cooler
duncan shot 42% from the field and ginobli shot 49%.. duncan average 20ppg and ginobli averaged 18ppg.. ginobli played fewer minutes. Also, kobe smoked duncan and his trio in 2008 that was without shaq, kobe being the Alpha,, 4-1 series... guess duncan needs to score more but he couldn't do that,,defense can't win you games alone you need to score to win games as well..
The Pistons defense was centered around stopping Duncan not manu.... numbers aren't always the whole story
Issac Sanchze Indeed 😊
And Duncan still outperformed Manu. People who seriously think Manu deserved FMvP in the finals of 05 are blinded by pure nostalgia.
Don't get me wrong, Manu was great. Had averages of 19-4-5 with near 50%FG and a couple clutch plays. However, just because Duncan may have had the worst shooting series of his career at 41.9% FG, (excluding the 2016 WCSF at age 40, the last series of Duncan's career) doesnt mean he wasn't effective in other facets of the game. Duncan was still the Spurs' best rebounder, shot-blocker, and defender by a clear margin. Duncan had more than double the rebounds and blocks of any other Spur, and still led all players in scoring, although(again) he didn't shoot well as stated earlier. Duncan averaged 21-14-2 on 42% FG with 2.1 bpg for the Finals.
To emphasize the importance of Duncan's rebounding, take a look at this. In the 2004 Finals, Ben and Rasheed Wallace averaged a combined 21.4 rpg against the lakers(TBF, the lakers were missing Karl Malone). But With Duncan keeping the Pistons off the glass in the 2005 Finals, Ben and Rasheed combined for just 15.9 rpg, with Antonio McDyess actually out-rebounding Rasheed off the bench. Ben and McDyess combined for 17.6 rpg. And finally, again, Duncan may have struggled offensively, but he also made some clutch plays on the offensive end in critical moments.
In Game 7, the Spurs were down 48-39 with 7:44 left in the 3rd quarter, and a 9-point lead was huge in this series considering how great the Pistons defense was. From the 7:44 mark to the 0:53 mark of the 3rd quarter, Duncan outscored the Pistons practically by himself with 12-9, before Lindsey Hunter made a buzzer beater to tie it at 57 at the end of the 3rd quarter. Duncan was 4/8 FG with 3 rebounds and 1 block during that roughly 7 minute stretch, singlehandedly bringing the Spurs back to tie the game by the end of the 3rd quarter.
In the 4th quarter, Duncan scored or assisted on 11 of the Spurs' 24 points, continuing to step up in the most crucial moments. When Detroit was in danger of pulling away, in a defensive series where every basket was hard to get, Duncan made the big plays to bring the Spurs back in the game and kept their championship hopes alive in Game 7.
how can you say it when throughout the playoffs Manu was devastitingly crushed suns and nugggets in playoffs.. of course they much prepared for Manu defensively! logic? im not saying Tim will be ignored by anu team but Manu was much their concern defensively obviously by his playoffs performance in 2005
@@unbiasvsbias3955 dude the only stats that duncan was higher than ginobli was points, rebounds ad blocks,,, even in free throws where no one is blocking duncan he average less free throw percentage than ginobli.. manu was obviously the man in that finals series... duncan usally shoots near 50% fg but he should atleast shoots around 45% considering it was ben and sheed guarding him, but he shot 42% from the field a below average shooting for a guard but duncan was not shooting three's...
@@aeriskabkr1110Stop the nostalgia. Yes, even with his not so great shooting.......he deserved MVP abd rightfully so
Thanks for this!
You just took a thorn away from my heart. I've always thought Manu was the MVP that year, but felt like very few considered this also!
Great video!
tomas9mg because timmy deserved more，so easy 2 understand why except manu fan
Me too
Without Duncan Spurs would have 0 chips
3:10 Kawhi Leonard in 1st? O:
In terms of scoring efficiency, yes. I was surprised by that aswell because he was also the defensive player of the year in 2014.
He was not DPOY in 2014, he won the award in 2015 and 2016.
I love manu but some of his numbers were inflated by the fact duncan was double teamed literilly every single touch.
Dennis Johnson Wrong Manu has always created his own shot
Dennis Johnson That happens to every star player in the playoffs. Jordan, Olajuwon, shaq etc. They're always double and triple teamed.
No Duncan wasn't... if you watched the whole series Duncan was defended well by only one player, either ben or rasheed... there were occasional double teams but not the kind that MJ or Kobe faced...
No Duncan and Spurs get 0 chips
Wow in 2018 we will never such a low scoring game like in this series
Duncan was consistent from 1 to 7 games in tht finals... Grabing rebounds fraw lot of foulds against center and forwards tim deserve it..
Do one on the 2010 finals. I would like to see which player you think deserved finals MVP
It's Pau Gasol of course
My favorite player...Manu ginobili20.here in the Philippines...🇵🇭
Oh, so this is why basketball fans are so against analytics. Looking at the numbers, Manu is the clear MVP. Watching the whole game 7 from beginning to end, not just the highlights, Tim Duncan was clear MVP.
Mmm no.
Can you tell me the exact name of that instrumental bro? He has a lot of content on his account it’ll take forever to sift through them all
There is another fact of why Manu should have been the MVP of the final. Ginobili came to play from the bench and played less minutes than Duncan. Tim Duncan played more minutes
Duncan deserved the MVP, the guy was battling against Rasheed, Ben and McDyess offensively and defensively.
He was the best overall player in the 04-05 season
IMO we need to actually watch the full games in the series to determine who was the more impactful player instead of just looking at the numbers because the Pistons' defense was geared towards stopping Duncan first. I'm not saying Ginobili is any less valuable (he's my favorite spur) but I just think that if Manu is the go-to guy and the pistons defense focuses on him primarily, he wouldn't be able to produce Timmy's number
he still crossed tayshaun prince and rip hamilton and did some acrobatic shots to avoid getting block by ben and sheed... manu was well defended but he was just that great in that finals
Despite the trash FG% & eFG% Duncan had against Manu, idc...you average 14 RPG banging against the Wallace boiis, *YOU DESERVE MVP, damn it* 😭😭😭😭
Nah, you're only using efficiency, back then the game wasn't based on this yet. Nowadays it would be Ginobili without a doubt, but back then Duncan was more MVP-like.
Also: Defense.
Interesting video and a good point. Hope this one gives you more wiews and subscribers, you deserve it.
Props to you for rewatching 2005 finals
The whole second half gm 7 ran thru Timmy all of Manu points also. That's was a defensive masterpiece dat series. But Timmy was point forward from the paint an earned dat MVP Manu was da only one who's will was big enuff to rock wit timmy
Torally agreed my friend...👌
manu's euro and tony spin moves is perfect
Lowkey they didn't give it to Ginobili because of Athens 2004...
I think u under sell Duncan defense. Also Duncan was double teamed by two defensive monsters, and out dueled them.
When i hear this background it means that my ears are being bombarded with facts.
Im a big spurs fans! Manu is my idol! He deserve that mvp finals , no win because in the otherside got Tim , but that Finals Manu whas the MVP whit long hair Good Memories!
Extremely well made video. Great job!
Of course ! Thank you so much for the vid !
I love this page. Wish you posted more
This was the first Finals I’ve ever watched. It was a very entertaining series 2 me and got me watching basketball
I remember being a teenager and wondering the same thing after watching the whole series
I thoroughly enjoy your videos & look forward to more sir! Thank you.
Well there are more factors than just statistics. Take the lakers for example, a team playing in a playoff series may attack different players, or try to disrupt different players. So if a team wanted to double Shaq everytime he got the ball, his teammates would be more free. Something that may or may not be reflected in the stats. So its a bit hard to compare apples to oranges. If the Pistons game plan was to shut down and disrupt Duncan, then the rest of the team would probably have better stats.
Anyway it was a hell of a series, 2 defensive juggernaughts, and such clutch performances. At least those Pistons won a ring already, so they got to taste the championship. Robert Horry's performance in the pivotal game 5 was soo good.
Most loved to LeBron he's goated
ginobili doesn't go for stats... he goes for his team's win
Manu is my favorite Spur so with that said we wouldn't have won without either Timmy or Manu. So does it really matter who got the Finals MVP, I don't think so, they both got rings from it and they brought home the trophy
Manu certainly deserves the 2005 Final MVP!!!
Yes!!! That is exactly right, manu deserved that FMVP!!!
#UnoMasManu
I see your point but I disagree. It was a low scoring dog fight of a series. Tim’s rebounds, blocks and defense were incredibly important. It’s not all about scoring. I wouldn’t have complained if manu would have got it but I lean towards Timmy.
Spurs fan here. You're 110% right.
Tim was in his prime and amazing, but that series was the year of Manu.
Excellent analysis and killer instrumental
NBA also named nonUS players as finals MVP by then, however they all were discoveries of NBA scouts (Parker, Nowitzki). Manu was a star player before coming to US and also represented a Euroleague trademark, which is the main reason he never took that Finals MVP title
Ginobili wasn't a star player for the Spurs until 3 years and even then his rookie season he averaged 7 points while Duncan carried them to 60 wins and won the championship. He was one of only 2 players who Mvp, finals MVP with no other all star teams
@@kylemonsterdrywallfistbump5948 he was going to be the MVP of worldcup at Indianapolis before his rookie season if he wasnt injured at semis
Amazing video presentation! Very well put together 10/10 manu4life
They bith really took turns. It should have been co mvps. Even tho duncan was so dominant defensively as well.
Manu, Timmy, it don’t matter. We won. Spurs are a TEAM.
It was like 12 years ago so...my mind just remember thinking..hey manu deserves that! But its all right...the next one...you cant argue with a figure like Duncan...he takes that mvp for other reasons that are outside the sport itself
Sorry but this is stupid. Manu was huge, but Duncan was the main target for Detroit’s defense. Tim’s defense was also insane and he took over game 7.
manu is my mans but Timmy carried us. ginobli did what he was supposed to play great at home, but he did not on the road. Timmy came up big in game 5 and 7 when it matter]s most
You need more videos, bro. You have great content.
So as you say TD was “shutted down” by Ben and Sheed but averages 20 a game and Manu averages 18 a game is cosidered game changer?wow whatta logic..
Prince was also a bonafide defender, so Manu didnt had a break there... Indeed the whole detroit team were a beast on defense... Manu's %s are incredible under those circumstances
Manu's efficiency #'s were better
People see borders that divide northern and southern hemispheres. I don't see that, i see a Native of the Americas and he's one of THE GOATS OF THE NBA!(SELF-PROCLAIMED DONT COUNT😂)
The problem with these vids is u only take into consideration scoring and not defense.
I personally have held the opinion that manu was at least deserving of co finals mvp. But you only look at it one way.
One of my all time favorite players.
Timmy played subpar that series. It was definitely shoulda been Manu. Dude was making the huge plays, the crucial baskets, and was the X-factor of that 05 Spurs team.
I agree with you, but
Why did you talk so long about game 5 of they both played like trash lol
You and your efficiency haha. You love that shit!
No se lo dieron por ser extranjero. Campeón y MVP en Atenas 2004 / Campeón y MVP Finals NBA 2005
Matías DR A Tony Parker se lo dieron y es francés
nicolas miranda burgos Sí, tenes razon. Igual Ginobili en 2005 fué el mejor y se lo dieron a Duncan.
Quinteto ideal Mundial 2002
Subcampeón Mundial 2002
Quinteto ideal Mundial 2006
Semifinalista Mundial 2006
Quinteto ideal JJOO Atenas 2004
MVP JJOO Atenas 2004
Campeón JJOO Atenas 2004
Campeón 2003 NBA
Campeón 2005 NBA
Campeón 2007 NBA
Campeón 2014 NBA
El más grande extranjero de la historia del basquet.
LeBron is most loved nice
Hace poco en NBA LATAM (Latinoamérica) hicieron el mismo video pero en español y es muy similar a este
After watching this it just reminds me how Robert big game Horry was so clutch with whatever team he played for I'd like to see a video on him from your perspective if you agree thanks
As a pistons fan i can’t watch this, it’s too painful
As a Lifelong Gino and Spurs fan, I don't think he cares. However it would have been nice to add that Bill Russel trophy on his hardware.
While Manu does have a case for FMVP, the voters got it right with Duncan getting the MVP
Tony Parker was a beast aswell lol 4:15
You made a better argument for Horry as MVP.
He didnt care about the MVP award. He just aims for the win and the ring. And playing with his FAMILY. Because the Spurs franchise is more than just a TEAM.
Wooow. I always thought it went to the best player of the entire playoffs, i just learnt that it didnt🙄
Nah,timmy was the MVP..the defense was focused on him that's why he has a low stats but his screening ability was the big impact,they cannot penetrate inside the lane without timmy there in the middle,even ginobili cannot make those points without tim in inside the court.
I'm going back into your old video and I love them. great stuff.
Cool
It happens. Ray Allen, Kyrie, Curry, etc. Dudes are often overlooked to push a certain agenda.
“The people’s MVP” is such a Manu thing
RIP Manu's hair