In the movies they hint on tigris seeing snow change, at one point she says that all she saw in his father’s eyes was hate, and at the very end when snow is all dressed up to go to university she says “you look JUST like your father”
THE BEST MOMENT in the WHOLE movie besides the rage that came out of Snow when he is shooting at the tree, after slowly yet simultaneously having the reality that she left him change his whole being. JUST after she said that its our life's work to stay on th e side of the line that's good.
@1818Pancakes that is one detail I noticed that I haven't seen ppl talk about. The fact that tigress used snow's full first name at the end and not called him "corio"
@@Seabasstard22I don't think she was leaving until he started calling for her and shooting. That's why we see her "fall" (dive) to the ground and drop his mother's scarf that he just gave her-she was returning after not finding any Katniss, but to a man who convinced himself that she had left him. He knew deep down he was on the wrong side of the line and didn't deserve Lucy, even though he thought he possessed her he knew deep down he did not bc she was a songbird, flying free and unable to be caged
maude ivory being related to katniss making so much sense to me. i don’t know why but katniss’ father always gave me an interesting vibe he seemed so different to other people in district 12. he knew how to sing and had a special connection to the woods knew how to swim and what plants not to eat.
Personally, I find the Maude Ivory theory to be the most plausible. She’s around the right age during the time TBOSAS takes place so that wouldn’t be an issue. She has the gift of being able to remember any song after just hearing it once. All the clues seem to point to her. I also like the idea that Katniss isn’t related to Lucy Gray by any means and is just this random girl who so happens share the same qualities as Snow’s two month situationship. This theory also ties in with the fact that Katniss wasn’t the chosen one, she was just a random girl who wanted to save her sister. My least favorite theory is Lucy being Alma Coin. Coin’s personality and ideals didn’t fit in with Lucy Gray at all to me. It’s been two years since I read Mockingjay so correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Coin want a symbolic Hunger Games involving capital children? Lucy Gray would never want that. Coin also never wanted Katniss to be the Mockingjay, instead she wanted Peeta. However, I believe that Lucy Gray would want Katniss instead. Coin’s name seems to disprove this theory as well. Coin and Snow are two sides of the same coin, they may use different methods but they both still wanted the same thing. Lucy Gray was not the same as Snow at all.
I agree. I think Coin may be Lucy's daughter, but free spirits can't stay underground and she left her daughter, which is why Coin hates Katniss so much. Just like her mother, everyone loves her and she's little miss perfect moral compass. Coin seems to resent not only Katniss' independence, but her compassion too.
I totally agree with you. I think if Katniss is related to anyone it's Maude Ivory. And honestly the parallels are almost too much to make sense if she isn't related to Maude Ivory. However I am also okay if she isn't related to anyone in TBOSAS. I like the idea that Katniss is simply a girl who wanted to save her sister. I'm fact in the beginning I felt Katniss being related to Maude Ivory cheapened her story. But it is possible for her to get her rebellious spirit through her father's lineage and yet still be just a girl wanting to save her sister. I also agree 100% about Coin not being Lucy Gray. They are simply nothing alike. Coin is basically Snow and I just don't think Lucy Gray would turn out that way. Now, I'm fine with Lucy Gray making it to 13 and working to take down Snow but I just don't see her being Coin.
@@FIRING_BLIND Because may be people do age less in thirteen I would accept even a theory that Coin was a child from Snow (and Lucy) . Snow not knowing this, but Coin cculd hate her father and alsoe know all stories (from viewpoint Lucy)
I love the fact that Suzanne Collins doesn’t just spell everything out for us. She provides small bits of information throughout the stories that allow us to draw our own conclusions. It puts you in the limited perspective of someone from the districts who only hears whisperings of information. I wonder how katniss’s dad would’ve played into the story if he hadn’t died. I think there’s still a lot more to him and his death that we don’t know. His teachings were the real start of the revolution and I question whether the explosion in the mines was really just an accident.
@@glimmerrrgirl5288 I'm imagining a novel from Maude or Katniss' dad's perspective. Especially since if it was planned, Gale and Katniss followed in rebel footsteps!
@@neryskkiran1820sooo much, the books are insanely good and it doesnt take long to finish the trilogy (or maybe im just a quick reader but i can finish each of the books in about a day maybe two) so i would so recommend it
@@neryskkiran1820the movies were good but the books dude were truly great. U get very invested in katniss and the world from her limited perspective. ik the twists are spoiled but I'd still read them cus of how many more details are in the book
If Tigris had been Finnick’s stylist ( definitely a plausible theory) would explain why she and Finnick are both part of the rebellion. Once Finnick won, they stay in touch and both realise they’ve had to sell their bodies to survive. I think Finnick has died by the time they reach Tigris’ home, so there’s no sweet reunion/explanation scene.
Even if she wasnt finnick's stylist, the fact that snow forced finnick to sell his body would have been the last straw for her due to what she had to do to keep her family fed
@@OfficialDrawifydo we know that they never changed wrong districts? I think it implied that stylists work towards working with districts that they want to.
34:58 they weren’t in love with each other. She was in love with him. He loved how she made people like her making him popular. And he loved that he helped her win. He thought he loved her. But he never did
The only flaw with coin rigging Katniss’s first game is that she never wanted to save her in Catching Fire. She wanted Peeta. She acts like she care’s for Katniss’s well being, but in the end she does not care about her needs at all and does not want this girl to lead her rebellion. She can’t control her. I really feel if anyone is capable of this rigging. It is Plutrach (i forgot how to spell it. Sorry.) he was the one who showed up everywhere, yet hid in the background. He was the big double agent. And he was the one who always believed in Katniss and what she stood for.
I agree but also feel like the other flaw is WHY coin would chose an up until then relatively anonymous Katniss Everdeen to lead their whole rebellion?
I think Lucy had a son with Snow and he somehow made it back to 12 as a young man 9 years younger than Maude, married her and had Katniss' dad. Everything Katniss was exposed to came from her dad and his lineage. He taught Katniss' mom about the natural world so she became a healer. I think Katniss' paternal grandfather was half siblings with Alma Coin. Lucy stayed in District 13, had Alma with someone from the rebellion. They banned music there, so poor Lucy could have become a very bitter, jaded creature as time went on which is how Alma becomes such a gray, serious leader. And that's why her older half brother (Snow/Lucy's offspring) fled 13. He met the covey out in the woods and wanted more than a drab underground life-he yearned to learn about the beauty above and music, dancing. Everything that was forbidden in 13. Lucy stayed bc she feared the Snow she fled in those woods and would never resurface again
@@Heartofitall9691idk Snow and Lucy Gray were teenagers and that means Lucy would have had to have gotten pregnant before they separated in the forest. I feel like Maude Ivory is much more plausible
What if Alma Coin is not Lucy Gray but her daughter? Then the age thing wouldn't be a problem. Her mother could have prepared her to beat Snow when the moment arrived.
Yeah thats what I said. Only I think one better. I think it is Snow’s kid. Just because it did or didnt say they were intimate doesnt matter. They spent time alone together in the woods. (I didnt see the movie and I never actually finished the book. I know how it ends but I dont know the exact details.)
@@occheermommythat would be insane!!! Lol I like that. Coin being the daughter of Snow and Lucy Gray. That would make Coins hatred towards him even more notable. Because it's not likely she'd ever mention that if she knew about it since she knew that would make everybody weary of her regardless. Especially Katniss who she knew she needed for the rebellion by the end of it.
BINGO!! I think Lucy had two children-a man who went back to 12 and married Maude (he'd have only been 9 years younger) and Lucy stayed in 13 and raised her daughter, Alma. Maude and the son (of Snow/Lucy) have a son, Katniss' dad, who learns A LOT from his parents and goes on to marry Katniss' mom whom he teaches all about the natural world
@@Heartofitall9691still don’t think this is possible? like the baby would be born the year of the 10/11th hunger games- katniss says coin looks 50 in the 75th - be like yes u COULD mix up 50 and 65 but it’s a stretch
I’m sorry but thinking Katniss would mistake an 80 year old for a 50 year old is a STRETCH. Especially considering Katniss has seen and presumably knows how old Snow is. Lucy Gray is most definitely NOT Coin. It goes against everything Lucy Gray IS. Coin is more likely Lucy Gray’s daughter.
@@blakekaveny This is also true. The reason I brought up Snow though and not Mags is because the argument they’re making is Katniss wouldn’t know what an 80 year old living in exquisite conditions would look like. Snow is an obvious example of how she WOULD know what an 80 year old living in the capitol, the most exquisite of living conditions, would look like.
I thought so too at first. I have never read the books, but I know the movie doesn’t do justice to how much poverty district 12 really endured. Katniss was supposed to be taller and skinnier, practically anorexic. She was barely alive when her name was picked.
Spoilers: Reading the book, I see Maude Ivory being related to Katniss in some way rather than Lucy Gray, specifically through her father. She's there for all the major parallels between Lucy and Katniss or would be aware of them. Her being a good singer and being there for the performance of Hanging Tree, she could pass that song down to Katniss's father, then to her. Also, her fate isn't left up in the air. We know she sayed in 12. I haven't finished the video, so if it's touched on here, I apologize.
@georgiasutton7797 kind of? Spoilers again: It's sung from the perspective of Lucy Gray's old boyfriend, but is sung to Snow as a secret message of where they should meet up to escape 12 that night.
@georgiasutton7797 I've only read the book so far. But if I remember correctly, Snow didn't admit to Lucy Gray he had murdered 3 people until after they left 12. Lucy gray didn't know about Sejanus. The man who was hung earlier for treason is "the man they say who murdered 3" I think its either a coincidence or a parallel that Snow also murdered 3 people
Yes, I also like the theory of Katniss being Lucy Gray's reincarnation like the symbolism is beautiful though Lucy being her cousin grandmother makes more sense.
1:08:42 also i think he feels like katniss is not in love with peeta because he thinks she is cold like him. And he realized he never loved Lucy. He just loved the power she made him feel he had. So he assumes katniss is acting. He also felt Lucy never loved him. That she just did it to win the games. And at home she did it to get under her exs skin. This is not true. But he felt that way because he was incapable of love and he only uses people for personal gain, not for meaningful relationships
she had to have survived bc in the movie she’s wearing a white dress but suddenly when snows chasing her she’s wearing the rainbow dress.. i’m sure he was hallucinating her edit: i was wrong ☹️
@@JLB0880 in the books it is not a venomous snake tho and he does not see her in the rainbow dress, it is a slighty different set up. he does not see her at all after she leaves the hut, actually.
She actually is not wearing her rainbow dress. If you search up "snow shoots lucy gray" on youtube a bad quality video will show up, but if you slow it down to 0.25 speed you can see its the same dress she was wearing before. It's white with some black pattern on the bottom. It's just the same shape as the rainbow dress. Sorry to disappoint :(
All this hunger games content from all my very UA-camrs is just the highlight of my year. With the movie coming out tomorrow, and me waiting 4 years for thisss, I can't believe it's finally happeningggg.
Interesting. I always thought it was Plutarch (sp?) who was playing all the chess. He was the one whispering things in Coin & Snow's ear. He hinted to Katniss about the watch which doubled as a hint about the rebellion, but also a clue to the arena. Also, He was alluded to being an influence to Seneca. However, toward the end of the last book, Hammitch (i believe) says, "And they say no one ever wins the games..." (referring to Plutarch being the one who seemingly got out ahead in everything at the end).
In his letter to Katniss at the end of Mockingjay, he mentions that he wasn't surprised by her arrow killing Coin instead of Snow. In the movie, he also smirks after it happens, hinting that he also knew Coin was evil and maybe that he was hoping Katniss would kill her. Plutarch was all for the rebellion and played his cards right to get the best outcome possible
Coin also imprisons Katniss’ style team in inhumane conditions for a minor offense, she doesn’t care about pardoning Peeta/Enobaria/Annie/Johanna either, she’d be happy to have them killed/disposed of but luckily Katninss lists their rescue/welcome to District 13 as part of her conditions to become the Mockingjay
Tigris realizes at the end of the movie that he’s not the same as when he left and calls him on it subtly by calling him by his full name instead of his nickname
I think it fits a little better that Coin is the child of Lucy and Snow- why her eyes are described as dilute and she is drained of all of her color. Imagine what would happen to the colorful bird Lucy having to live underground for the rest of her life? I imagine she would go the way Katniss’ mother went and Coin became the worst side of her father vs her mother (another parent pair dynamic). She carried on her mother’s song and story but in the darkest possible way. The ages would fit up much tighter.
You say "much tighter", but that version of events only brings them approximately halfway closer. Lucy Gray is 16 during her hunger games, so if she conceives a child with Snow then there's still a more or less 14 years gap between the child's age and the estimated age of Coin, according to Katniss. I love the idea of Coin being the result of Coriolanus & Lucy Gray, as a symbol that they really weren't a love match if this person is the product of that 'love', but the years still don't seem to add up
My theory is that Katniss is the Granddaughter of Maude Ivory Baird (hence would be the Lucy Grays cousin twice removed). This just makes more sense - Maude stayed in twelve would have been a good age to have grandchildren by the time of the 74th hunger games but also young enough to forget the traditions of the covey after lucy gray left.
I am so confused. I was convinced that Tigris' relation (in a general sense) to Snow was known before Ballads came out. Loved the Hunger Game movies, read the books once when they came out. Always just had the understanding that the whole Tigris being related to Snow wasnt a new bit of info... Anyone else?
It was known that Tigris knew Snow. In Mockingjay, she says something along the lines of "I didn't always look like this, it was until Snow decided I wasn't pretty enough anymore." But I don't remember if it's explicitly said that they were related.
Read the book and it is never even insinuated that Snow and Grey got busy, so I don't think Coin is related to Snow and Grey. I also doubt Grey came back to district 12 because she'd be too easily recognizable and too much of a threat. I could see her ending up in 13 IF she survived. I don't see how Katniss could be directly related to Grey.
Yeah I think at best her cousin Maude could’ve been been Katniss’s grandma or great grandma as she would also know the songs and pass them down to her children.
The 3rd Quell is almost certainly orchestrated, either by Snow in an attempt to quash the rebellion or Plutarch performing some sleight of hand, as in the film there’s a cut scene of Plutarch tampering with the envelope for it.
I think it’s was so incredibly obvious that Coin bombed the kids, it would literally do no good at all for Snow to literally bomb his own nations kids. I also think Coin definitely intended for Prim to die in the bombing because she knew that the medics would rush in to avenge those kids. Just another way for her to manipulate Katniss. I think it’s very possible that Coin has been manipulating the situation from the very beginning, just because things went way too perfectly. I remember really not liking Coin right off the bat when I read the books. She always gave me the ick. It’s kind of ironically funny that Gale is so jealous of Katniss and Peeta’s connection when he pushed her away, which isn’t totally unreasonable. It’s just unreasonable for him to be upset that Peeta perfectly filled the void he left.
It's more likely that Coin is Lucy's daughter, perhaps a daughter she had if Coriolanus and Lucy were intimate one time while he was visiting that lake house. Lucy escapes to 13, finds out she's pregnant, gives birth to Alma and decides to raise Snow's daughter to take him down. She shares her experiences with Alma, and at some point dies. That drive to take down Snow that Lucy instills in Alma becomes foundational to her personality. Most likely Alma realizes that in order to take down her father, she essentially has to become a pale version of him--which causes friction between mother and daughter, and likely would lead to Alma quietly killing her or Lucy escaping once again to live and die in the wilderness.
I agree with most but I actually take it further. I think Snow and Lucy have a baby boy. He leaves at a teen and heads back to 12, meeting Maude who's 9 years older. He's very mature bc he was raised under ground with no music, no nature. They have a son and he marries Katniss' mom Lucy won't leave the underground bc she fears Snow SO much. She meets a kind man, someone leading the rebellion and has another child, Alma. Alma and the first child are half siblings. Alma HATES Snow for the life her mother had to live to feel safe so vows to avenge her mother.
@@Heartofitall9691No… I like the theory that Maude, who stayed in district 12, met someone from district 12 and eventually led to Katniss. Maude is super young but would still be 8 years older than the child born by Lucy and Snow. It makes way more sense that Coin is Snow’s daughter from Lucy and she was raised to overtake Snow. It would have been 10 years or so after district 13 went underground and given that she knew so much Lucy probably would have been immediately put into some position of power giving her daughter the chance of becoming President
Lucy Gray was 16 years old though, during her hunger games, and ends up being around thirty years older than Coin. If she conceives Coin with Snow then the age difference between the child conceived at that time and the estimated age of Coin according to Katniss are still too far apart to make sense.
I have a theory that Lucy Gray could be President Coins mother. That theory would help with the timeline of 30ish years. If her mom had this vendetta against Snow she would grow up knowing about all his bad deeds and about almost killing her mom and would wanna take him down.
I really don’t think Lucy Gray is ever in love with Snow. We never once see inside her head in the book, never know her motivations or feelings. I personally cling to the empowering notion that she completely used him to stay alive and to save herself. In the film she looks like she’s going to barf when he goes to kiss her. Also, he realises this later and is why he’s so sure Katniss is just as duplicitous and ‘out to save her own skin’
I believe that she both loved and trusted him, if not she definitely trusted him. She said so herself in the song she made for him. If I remember correctly one of the lines were, “That’s why I trust you” And you could see how happy she was to see him in the film when she was performing onstage. She looked rather relieved and in love
What girl I just watched this, the first time SHE tried kissing HIM , he pulled away, the second time they had them switch reactions to be cute about the first time. She didn't almost barf, and it's pretty obvious, they BOTH loved each other.
Or maybe Lucy Gray had a daughter who’s mother had told her the story of what happened to her. Maybe it was a daughters revenge for what had been done to her mother.
Is anyone else thinking about the fact that Tigris had to be, like, well over 80 years old? She was apparently older than Snow, and they were children scavenging for food, several years before the first Hunger Games.
can you please do a theory video on how coin can be lucy gray and snow’s daughter? it seems too ironic that if she were trying to avenge her mothers death, she becomes too obsessed with the idea of taking down snow which is ALSO snow’s worst trait that when becoming overly obsessed with one he loses sight of everything else, that she gets taken down at the end of mocking jay instead
@@abc4828 it was never said explicitly but it is very possible that they did. snow was in 12 for a while before going back to the capitol while spending one on one time with snow with lucy’s family covering for them
As they say in their review, there’s a common theme in the series of characters battling between the opposing ideals of their parents, so it would fit the narrative
Absolutely love these videos!! My jaw hit the floor when reading Mockingjay and Finnick revealed these traumas from his past. It brought a whole new level of darkness and depravity to this Hunger Games. After hearing the SCB theory on why Tigris isn't in the Games anymore, I'm totally sold. So excited to see the movie!! Tickets booked for Saturday 🎉
@@littlelieb just saw it yesterday and also loved it 😁 there were a couple of bits I wasn't the biggest fan of, but overall I think it was a great adaptation and very glad I went to see it
Not unpopular at all. Coin was worse than Snow and meant to kill Katniss first, then when she couldn't she figured the only way to refocus and control her was to kill her sister along with a bunch of other kids and let Snow take the blame for it so she (Coin) would seem like the hero and have Katniss' support. Thankfully Katniss eventually saw through that.
Agree! Katniss realized that in Catching fire when she said that if district 13 existed, she hates them because they sat back and let the other districts suffer at the hands of the Capitol. Snow mentions this in Mockingjay when he said that district 13 abandoned the other districts during the dark days when it looked like they were going to lose the war even though it was district 13 that started the uprising to begin with
Ok so we figured out Maude Ivory Baird is Katniss Everdeens paternal grandmother. Do we think Tam Amber or Clark Carmine may be her paternal grandfather? Is Tam Amber the goat man? Is Clark Carmine an ancestor of the lone fiddler who plays at Finnicks and Annies wedding? If so, why has Katniss never known any other Covey descendants? Have the remaining Covey maybe had some fight and stopped acknowledging eachother or were seperated by force? And what about Maysilee Donner and her mockingjay pin, the Covey seem to be the only folks to like the mockingjays? We can have a lot of fun theories until hopefully the saga is continued…
I think Maysilee was a member of the rebellion and joined after her twin sister died in the games. I think the plan was originally for Madge to volunteer for Prim as Madge says that she has to look good if she goes to the Capitol then makes sure to give Katniss the mockingjay pin asking her to wear it in the arena.
Excellent synopsis! Alma Coin, (Alma = soul and Coin = grey or flip-side) is definitely the real villain in the series. I don’t think Coriolanus Snow lied to Katniss in the rose 🌹 greenhouse; he already suffered the consequences of a lie to Lucy Grey all those years ago. Not sure how much was planned but always thought that Plutarch Heavensbee was the real puppet master. In his letter to Katniss he states how he was the only one who was unsurprised by her actions i.e. executing Coin.🪙 Will be watching more of your videos!
Katniss comments at least once that the Reapings seem to be rigged, as Victors’ children/relatives seem to be chosen as tributes with alarming regularity ( Mags’ granddaughter is canon, I believe).
I think if that is the case, Coin's true father is Snow. I think Lucy was very early pregnant when she and Snow left District 12... why else would she leave the Covey if not to protect her child from the dangers of the Districts and Capitol??? If she is Lucy's daughter and was taught how dangerous Snow could be, she would want to stop him.....and if he knew or recognized her (resembling Lucy) it makes his manipulating Katniss to shoot Coin even that much more treacherous.
Ok, alternative theory, Katniss is Lucy Gray's granddaughter, but she is also Snow's. Suppose her and Snow did get a little frisky and Lucy Gray escapes before she knows she is pregnant. It would help to explain Snow's weird obsession and Katniss' oddly good political skills. She is also less outgoing than Lucy Gray, and more standoffish like Snow.
Loved the video :D Just one thought, maybe if there is an age gap it's because ALMA COIN is not lucy gray but her daughter. I've seen this theory with an unnamed father but in my opinion she could be snow and lucy gray's daughter... After all they were together for quite sometimes romantically involved before deciding to escape. What if LUCY GRAY survived and gave birth to a daughter : That would explain the washed out colors of her eyes, the fact that she knows everything about their love story to manipulate Snow and her similar descent to darkness when she is given power. ALMA is the name of the ballad, which follows the tradition of the coveys, and coin would be because there is too faces to COIN herself.(the good leadership as shown in D13 to help the rebellion and the evil when she is given the opportunity for revenge) As demonstrated by ballad of bird and snake you have the influence of both your mother and father in you. Alma Coin is just as bad as Snow because she is his actual descendant....
I love the theory of Coin's big plan beginning long before Katniss had been selected and Katniss being her personal pawn in her revolution. But you didn't mention one specific situation that I think is also very crucial and interesting to analyze. Coin wanted to rescue Peeta from the Quarter Quell. In the first chapter of Mockingjay, Katniss overhears Coin saying ''I told you we should've rescued the boy''. What exactly made her say that? What made her believe that after all those years of planning, choosing the best person for that games, giving Katniss best chances of survival at every turn suddenly made her want to ditch Katniss and choose Peeta instead, just when the rebelion truly, TRULY began? Yes, Coin realizes that she doesn't have full support and control of Katniss, for which she greatly dislikes her and does whatever it takes to always make her (Coin) look in control anyway, but that comes into surface after Katniss arrives in District 13. The only thing that comes to my mind is that Coin realizes Peeta is better with words, can truly pull at heartstrings, etc. (so can Katniss, but she has to be put in a risky situation in order to evoke some spontaneity in her, as Peeta doesn't have to) and he could've been a perfect voice for the rebels. He would've been the broken lover who lost his love in the war. But I also don't think Capitol would execute Katniss if they took her instead. Propably would hijack her and use her archery skills to make her a Capitol assassin. Rebels were mad at Peeta for asking for a ceafire, but he was not the face of the revolution. He became a traitor, but the true symbol of the revolution was on rebel's side. If the Mockingjay suddenly appeared on Capitol's side, that would likely change the course of the war. Would that be a risk Coin was willing to take? I'm just babbling at this point, but I'm surprised no one mentioned that part and I'm curious about other people's opinions.
It’s the fact that she must’ve realized that she picked the one that could not be controlled. That’s probably why she changed her mind to the one who could be, the one who is slightly more weak willed..
It could be that Lucy Gray is Katniss’ great-aunt! Lucy Gray’s sister may have had Katniss’ father, and Katniss’ father may have met Katniss’ mother and they may have had Katniss and Primrose! Lucy Gray cannot be the president of 13. She would be 81 in the time of the third quarter quell. It’s more realistic that Lucy Gray had a child at 30 ish, and that’s the President of 13
My own theory of their relation Is that katniss name has a relation to a plant that lucy named, saying she preferred calling it that rather than the original name, and in mokinjay part 2 we see peeta calling a plant that he found (primrose) he called it which guves a hint that both katniss amd prim were named after plants, which would most likely come from their mother who handles herbs as seen the humger games then the question is if katniss is named after a plant where did the mother hear the name from as the name for the plant was created by Lucy, so they had to be a relation maybe lucy never actually left district 12 and stayed in the mountains where katniss and gale wanted to run off too and coincidentally where peeta found the prim rose, and maybe thats what caught snow attention to katniss her name?. Correct me if im wrong it has been insanely long since i last watched the hunger games
Coin must have engineered that bombing of the hospital in 8, she probably tipped the Capitol off somehow that Katniss would be there. It also parallels the parachute bombings that kill Prim.
Agreed! I definitely think Everdeen somehow got changed from Evergreen down the line, esp when knowing the was a Spruce family. I believe Lucy had Snow's son but had him smuggled back to 12 to be raised by Maude and the Covey for some reason (maybe she wanted his talents to shine?) Music, color was banned in the underground 13 where she hated EVERYTHING about it. She went on to have another daughter, Alma 3 years later which would make Alma 20 years younger than Snow, or 60 which, living underground with no sun damage could explain why Katniss mistook her for "50 or so". Lucy's oldest, Snow's son, meanwhile was raised by Maude and the Covey, I believe the Bairds are going to end up relatives of Tigris from her mother's side based on (SPOILER) Maude having blonde hair like Tigris in the movie. I believe with movies like this, EVERYTHING is done with purpose and Maude was a lot older in the movie and they had to cut A LOT about her from the book out, do I feel like they intentionally gave us visual clues. Maude raises the son who has a son. That son marries Katniss' mom. He's the one who teaches Katniss everything covey. I also believe we will learn more about both of Katniss' parents. Suzanne threw some clues in that otherwise would have been pulled, like Peeta's dad having a thing for Katniss' mom back in the day. Like, who cares?? Unless it means something. We see Katniss didn't inherit the love of performing like the rest of the Coveys, but she had an inner grit that her mother didn't possess based on how she shut down when the father got killed in the mine, so can't wait for the next surprise Suzanne has in store for the series! The Evergreen family tree will be quite interesting to learn about, as will the history of Coin (reminiscent of a "copper penny"? "Silver coin"? We read that Maude pointed out to Snow how his name was similar to Covey names bc Snow is white. And, that points to Spruce and Evergreen=forest green color as well). I just don't know that Lucy would be the mother of Alma bc it's too obvious and simple, and it doesn't leave much for Katniss in regards to all of the similarities, clues and things her father taught her. Plus, I just don't think Lucy could have raised a daughter underground and kept her from the life she loved so much, unless she somehow got sick and died or something TRAGIC
Imagine he did hit her or injured her in some way that left her incapable of singing ever again. Sounds like a good reason for someone who lives to sing to speak vengeance after lost of trust
Coins big plan theory is so legit I believe it all. Suzanne collins writes so meticulously and leaves breadcrumbs that are up for multiple interpretations but everything is intentional. Great vid
All your theories are good, but that last one about coin…. man you nailed that so good. Thank you. There were so many things that I couldn’t quite put together and you were able to so well like absolutely perfect. Thank you so much.❤❤❤
Lucy Gray can't be Coin. She was a teenager in the tenth games, so she would be the same age as Snow. I'm the book, Coin is supposed to be in her 50s. Mathematically impossible. I think that Lucy Gray is Greasy Sae. That could make the Mockingjay pin planned. No matter which story you go with. If you go with the movie, she could have been part of the rebellion and knew that Katniss would be a tribute, so she gave her the pin to agitate Snow. If you go with the Madge story in the book. Greasy Sae could have had the same thought, and gave the pin to Maysilee when she went to the hunger games. Maybe she was supposed to survive, but was killed by the birds. The pin then was passed to Madge.
Great video, I don’t think there is any chance coin is Lucy Gray. The age doesn’t make sense but more than that, I don’t see any way in which Lucy Gray could become a monster based off her actions in the last theory. It could be Lucy Grays daughter who has a separate personality from her mother’s but even that I find unlikely. I don’t doubt that Lucy Gray found district 13 and maybe told the people stories from the events in the ballad of songbird and snakes.
I think it is significantly more likely Coin is Lucy’s daughter. She would be the right age for that and could have been told all of the info she needed for the plan by her mom. And having a father from 13 who was used to that more austere lifestyle would explain her focus on simplicity as opposed to her mom’s love of color and music.
I’ve been a huge fan of the Hunger Games series, watching you discuss theories and relating the movies to the books has really got me thinking. While watching I have been googling things about characters and searching up Reddit forum theories. Such interesting takes you have. You gained a fan.
when i watched the prequel i couldn't help but relate it to macbeth. The greed for power is so similar between macbeth and corylanus. I wonder if anyone else agrees
The only way I could see Katniss and Lucy being directly related are if Lucy somehow had a kid before the start of the book, or if Lucy survived, met up with others living in the woods, and when Katniss' dad was young, Panem found them and forced them into a district (as theoretically there would be a good period of time where there are people that haven't been forced to join Panem or 13)
You guys should do a theory or what if on Avatar the last Airbender. A what if I always liked is what if Zuko was either never banished or banished with no quest for the avatar and no hope of ever going back home. We also need a what if for Prim going into the games and somehow becoming the Mockingjay... Not sure how but I say it needs to happen.
I have always suspected that Katniss' father was part of the earlier stages of the rebellion. It would make sense that he was sent to District 12 from 13 (by his mother Lucy Grey or someone from the group?) to help the rebellion in some way. It would explain why he taught Katniss the hanging tree song, how he was such a skilled hunter or why he knew where the old house by the lake was (etc.). I'm not sure if he was specifically training his daughter to be the "Mocking Jay" but he was definitely preparing her for something. Even if it was just to survive in the woods with her sister when the rebellion started, but I think he died before any real plans could be implemented. I believe that the Mayor and his family were part of the rebellion as well. That is why Madge gave Katniss the Mockingjay pin. Maybe it was a signal to the others that Katniss is "the chosen one" and the plan is now set in motion. As we know, Madge's Aunt Maysilee was in the hunger games with Haymitch giving them. I've also speculated that the rebellion orchestrated the naming of Prim as the Tribute because they expected Katniss would volunteer... triggering the start of the rebellion. She must have been chosen as the Mockingjay in advance because the Hunger Games arena that year was obviously designed specifically for Katniss giving her a huge advantage. But anyways... I could go on, however you get the point.
I think a more plausible explanation would be that coin is Lucy Gray's daughter, and she simply was told the story from her mother. Solves the age thing, all the other stuff still lines up, and doesn't require Lucy to have a 180 degree character shift.
I love how much research you put into your theories. They're often theories that I've thought of in a vague sense, but to have them presented in an entertaining way that lays out all of the facts and the speculation... I rarely come away from one of these without being 100% convinced that you're right and the author always intended it that way 😝
I don't think that Coin is Lucy Gray mainly because of the actions Coin takes to achieve her goals. If you remember Lucy Gray is SUPER put off by the fact that Snow killed someone else she doesn't know about, now this is telling that Lucy Gray does not like the idea of murder not only that but it makes sense with her character. Which wouldn't make sense is what Coin goes on to do (killing people for the sole purpose of her cause) it just doesn't track one bit with the royal compass of Lucy Gray and while I believe that things can change and people do as well I just don't think they change that much as to someone who has a very clear moral right and wrong to someone who is willing to kill her own people for her cause of getting back at Snow
The one arguments that makes me disregard the whole rebellion masterplan theory is Haymitch. If Katniss and Peeta had been planted in the games on purpose, Haymitch surely would have been in on it by then. He is a crucial factor to their success, and was previously probably known for not even really being there as a mentor. They had to convince him they have a chance
I would love to see more hunger games theories I’ve watched all your videos regarding the hunger games (as well as keeping up with more regular content) but I feel like there has to be more to dive into with the hunger games
I legit want an entire TV show following Ballad. That portrayal of Snow was just as fantastic, and I really enjoy that character and the world of Panem. I'd like to have 6 seasons or so spread out over years (not just one year after another, but several important years). Each one, highlight 3 stories - Snow continuing his GOT level political rise with assassinations, brilliance, etc, Coin being raised by Lucy in District 13 to learn about her father and hate him, and 2 different tributes each time that played key roles in that year's game and also give us insight into exploring 2 new districts. Do that for 6 seasons and explore all 12 districts throughly, while chronicling the next 40 years of Snow's life, as well as the growth of Lucy. Then have a final season where you do the 50th game and give us young Hamitch. I would also be game for Finnick's game too. But that seems like it could be an awesome series. See some of Snow as a college student and young adult learning from Gaul, then as a middle aged man taking over the political system and building the games into what it would become, and then ending it with Hamitch and his crown jewel of a game to this point. I would certainly be game for a Finnick season too, or a BeeTee season, but that is up to the success of the show. I just want more of this. You could do 3 seasons with this current actor and then 3-4 season with Kiefer taking over as his father's character. That would simply be insane and I would watch that for sure.
Anyone else catch the Tesserae meaning change? In the prequel it’s referring to the little makeshift buttons from the bathroom wall and in the trilogy it’s referring to the oil and grain the kids can earn only during the reaping. Both brought up in a very dark and struggling time.
It’s not such a small world that everyone has to be related to everyone else. Lucy Gray could’ve influenced people in district 13, without necessarily being Coin. Also, she would’ve had to get a pretty significant education and changed her dialect in order to be Coin.
Really interested in theories about the relationship between Katniss and Lucy Grey. I think Katniss father is the offspring of Lucy and Snow. Lucy hid him out in the forest until he was too old to be reaped. It wasn’t until Katniss was old enough for the Games that the blood test (remember that from the first film?) identified her as a relation. He couldn’t do anything for those games, as we know the tributes are picked in advance. He had his own son immediately killed in a mining ‘accident’ though, expecting his granddaughters to starve quickly. When they don’t, he arranges for Prim to be reaped, as this is the most devastating thing he can imagine for the family
I don’t think Snow knew Katniss might be connected to Lucy until the end of the third film. He seemed he came to a realization or come across some kind of information after he thought Katniss was dead. His demeanor was different toward her after that in the greenhouse. He didn’t have to tell her about Coin or give condolences. I felt he was almost relieved when he saw she was alive. I might be over reading it though. He definitely would have been trying to dig up history or information to use against her.
MAY THE ODDS BE EVER IN YOUR FAVOR!
Keep up your amazing work you make so many people happy everyday including me
IM SO EXCITED
Please make a Foast shirt/sweatshirt !!! with the giant squid
*Mockingjay whistle*
@@coolnerdlll6053 **3 finger salute**
In the movies they hint on tigris seeing snow change, at one point she says that all she saw in his father’s eyes was hate, and at the very end when snow is all dressed up to go to university she says “you look JUST like your father”
THE BEST MOMENT in the WHOLE movie besides the rage that came out of Snow when he is shooting at the tree, after slowly yet simultaneously having the reality that she left him change his whole being. JUST after she said that its our life's work to stay on th e side of the line that's good.
And she called him by his first name not his nickname. She def saw the change. And remember she will end up helping Katniss and the rebels.
@1818Pancakes yes I noticed that too.
@1818Pancakes that is one detail I noticed that I haven't seen ppl talk about. The fact that tigress used snow's full first name at the end and not called him "corio"
@@Seabasstard22I don't think she was leaving until he started calling for her and shooting. That's why we see her "fall" (dive) to the ground and drop his mother's scarf that he just gave her-she was returning after not finding any Katniss, but to a man who convinced himself that she had left him. He knew deep down he was on the wrong side of the line and didn't deserve Lucy, even though he thought he possessed her he knew deep down he did not bc she was a songbird, flying free and unable to be caged
maude ivory being related to katniss making so much sense to me. i don’t know why but katniss’ father always gave me an interesting vibe he seemed so different to other people in district 12. he knew how to sing and had a special connection to the woods knew how to swim and what plants not to eat.
Personally, I find the Maude Ivory theory to be the most plausible. She’s around the right age during the time TBOSAS takes place so that wouldn’t be an issue. She has the gift of being able to remember any song after just hearing it once. All the clues seem to point to her.
I also like the idea that Katniss isn’t related to Lucy Gray by any means and is just this random girl who so happens share the same qualities as Snow’s two month situationship. This theory also ties in with the fact that Katniss wasn’t the chosen one, she was just a random girl who wanted to save her sister.
My least favorite theory is Lucy being Alma Coin. Coin’s personality and ideals didn’t fit in with Lucy Gray at all to me. It’s been two years since I read Mockingjay so correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Coin want a symbolic Hunger Games involving capital children? Lucy Gray would never want that. Coin also never wanted Katniss to be the Mockingjay, instead she wanted Peeta. However, I believe that Lucy Gray would want Katniss instead. Coin’s name seems to disprove this theory as well. Coin and Snow are two sides of the same coin, they may use different methods but they both still wanted the same thing. Lucy Gray was not the same as Snow at all.
I agree. I think Coin may be Lucy's daughter, but free spirits can't stay underground and she left her daughter, which is why Coin hates Katniss so much. Just like her mother, everyone loves her and she's little miss perfect moral compass. Coin seems to resent not only Katniss' independence, but her compassion too.
I totally agree with you. I think if Katniss is related to anyone it's Maude Ivory. And honestly the parallels are almost too much to make sense if she isn't related to Maude Ivory.
However I am also okay if she isn't related to anyone in TBOSAS. I like the idea that Katniss is simply a girl who wanted to save her sister. I'm fact in the beginning I felt Katniss being related to Maude Ivory cheapened her story. But it is possible for her to get her rebellious spirit through her father's lineage and yet still be just a girl wanting to save her sister.
I also agree 100% about Coin not being Lucy Gray. They are simply nothing alike. Coin is basically Snow and I just don't think Lucy Gray would turn out that way. Now, I'm fine with Lucy Gray making it to 13 and working to take down Snow but I just don't see her being Coin.
I mean she could have changed her name and being under ground can change you sometimes
Yeah I don't think Coin could be Lucy. Both due to age, and all the reasons you listed. She could be her daughter tho, which might make more sense
@@FIRING_BLIND Because may be people do age less in thirteen I would accept even a theory that Coin was a child from Snow (and Lucy) . Snow not knowing this, but Coin cculd hate her father and alsoe know all stories (from viewpoint Lucy)
I love the fact that Suzanne Collins doesn’t just spell everything out for us. She provides small bits of information throughout the stories that allow us to draw our own conclusions. It puts you in the limited perspective of someone from the districts who only hears whisperings of information. I wonder how katniss’s dad would’ve played into the story if he hadn’t died. I think there’s still a lot more to him and his death that we don’t know. His teachings were the real start of the revolution and I question whether the explosion in the mines was really just an accident.
I love this perspective, it could have been a planned event to take rebels out in that district.
@@glimmerrrgirl5288 I'm imagining a novel from Maude or Katniss' dad's perspective. Especially since if it was planned, Gale and Katniss followed in rebel footsteps!
I didn't read the books. I only caught a couple of things that were detailed here. I wonder how much I would have picked up on if I'd read the books?
@@neryskkiran1820sooo much, the books are insanely good and it doesnt take long to finish the trilogy (or maybe im just a quick reader but i can finish each of the books in about a day maybe two) so i would so recommend it
@@neryskkiran1820the movies were good but the books dude were truly great. U get very invested in katniss and the world from her limited perspective. ik the twists are spoiled but I'd still read them cus of how many more details are in the book
If Tigris had been Finnick’s stylist ( definitely a plausible theory) would explain why she and Finnick are both part of the rebellion. Once Finnick won, they stay in touch and both realise they’ve had to sell their bodies to survive. I think Finnick has died by the time they reach Tigris’ home, so there’s no sweet reunion/explanation scene.
Tigris was a stylist for district 1, finnick was a district 4 victor
Even if she wasnt finnick's stylist, the fact that snow forced finnick to sell his body would have been the last straw for her due to what she had to do to keep her family fed
@@OfficialDrawifydo we know that they never changed wrong districts? I think it implied that stylists work towards working with districts that they want to.
@@sallycinnamon5370 you are right, I forgot they get to pick somewhat
susane says she really regrets killing finnick
34:58 they weren’t in love with each other. She was in love with him. He loved how she made people like her making him popular. And he loved that he helped her win. He thought he loved her. But he never did
She loved him, while he loved how she made him look and feel and what he could do for her. Perfectly said
Yes I agree; he was a narcissist. He only loved himself.
No, I do think he loved her. Even wicked people are capable of love.
I loved her
Still do LLLGB
The only flaw with coin rigging Katniss’s first game is that she never wanted to save her in Catching Fire. She wanted Peeta. She acts like she care’s for Katniss’s well being, but in the end she does not care about her needs at all and does not want this girl to lead her rebellion. She can’t control her.
I really feel if anyone is capable of this rigging. It is Plutrach (i forgot how to spell it. Sorry.) he was the one who showed up everywhere, yet hid in the background. He was the big double agent. And he was the one who always believed in Katniss and what she stood for.
That's so true, he also knew that Katniss would eventually choose to kill Coin
I agree but also feel like the other flaw is WHY coin would chose an up until then relatively anonymous Katniss Everdeen to lead their whole rebellion?
I think that Maude Ivory is the grandmother of Katniss, it matches as to why her father would know the hanging tree song
I think Lucy had a son with Snow and he somehow made it back to 12 as a young man 9 years younger than Maude, married her and had Katniss' dad. Everything Katniss was exposed to came from her dad and his lineage. He taught Katniss' mom about the natural world so she became a healer.
I think Katniss' paternal grandfather was half siblings with Alma Coin. Lucy stayed in District 13, had Alma with someone from the rebellion. They banned music there, so poor Lucy could have become a very bitter, jaded creature as time went on which is how Alma becomes such a gray, serious leader. And that's why her older half brother (Snow/Lucy's offspring) fled 13. He met the covey out in the woods and wanted more than a drab underground life-he yearned to learn about the beauty above and music, dancing. Everything that was forbidden in 13. Lucy stayed bc she feared the Snow she fled in those woods and would never resurface again
Well Francis Lawrence confirmed that Maude Ivory is related to Katniss and not Lucy Gray so there's that
@@Heartofitall9691idk Snow and Lucy Gray were teenagers and that means Lucy would have had to have gotten pregnant before they separated in the forest. I feel like Maude Ivory is much more plausible
This is the only theory I stand strongly with.
Yup, I agree. It adds to the mystery of Lucy Gray.
What if Alma Coin is not Lucy Gray but her daughter? Then the age thing wouldn't be a problem. Her mother could have prepared her to beat Snow when the moment arrived.
Yeah thats what I said. Only I think one better. I think it is Snow’s kid. Just because it did or didnt say they were intimate doesnt matter. They spent time alone together in the woods. (I didnt see the movie and I never actually finished the book. I know how it ends but I dont know the exact details.)
@@occheermommythat would be insane!!! Lol I like that. Coin being the daughter of Snow and Lucy Gray. That would make Coins hatred towards him even more notable. Because it's not likely she'd ever mention that if she knew about it since she knew that would make everybody weary of her regardless. Especially Katniss who she knew she needed for the rebellion by the end of it.
BINGO!! I think Lucy had two children-a man who went back to 12 and married Maude (he'd have only been 9 years younger) and Lucy stayed in 13 and raised her daughter, Alma. Maude and the son (of Snow/Lucy) have a son, Katniss' dad, who learns A LOT from his parents and goes on to marry Katniss' mom whom he teaches all about the natural world
@@occheermommynot possible, coin would still be too young compared to the baby
@@Heartofitall9691still don’t think this is possible? like the baby would be born the year of the 10/11th hunger games- katniss says coin looks 50 in the 75th - be like yes u COULD mix up 50 and 65 but it’s a stretch
I’m sorry but thinking Katniss would mistake an 80 year old for a 50 year old is a STRETCH. Especially considering Katniss has seen and presumably knows how old Snow is. Lucy Gray is most definitely NOT Coin. It goes against everything Lucy Gray IS. Coin is more likely Lucy Gray’s daughter.
Exactly especially since maggs was in her 80s and if coin was that age also she’d look relatively similar
@@blakekaveny This is also true. The reason I brought up Snow though and not Mags is because the argument they’re making is Katniss wouldn’t know what an 80 year old living in exquisite conditions would look like. Snow is an obvious example of how she WOULD know what an 80 year old living in the capitol, the most exquisite of living conditions, would look like.
@@kayleeruiz sure but I wouldn’t call exquisite conditions . Sure it’s better then 12 but nowhere compares to the capital
I thought so too at first. I have never read the books, but I know the movie doesn’t do justice to how much poverty district 12 really endured. Katniss was supposed to be taller and skinnier, practically anorexic. She was barely alive when her name was picked.
That being said, older people from district 12 could look practically deceased 💀
Spoilers:
Reading the book, I see Maude Ivory being related to Katniss in some way rather than Lucy Gray, specifically through her father. She's there for all the major parallels between Lucy and Katniss or would be aware of them.
Her being a good singer and being there for the performance of Hanging Tree, she could pass that song down to Katniss's father, then to her. Also, her fate isn't left up in the air. We know she sayed in 12.
I haven't finished the video, so if it's touched on here, I apologize.
Isn't the hanging tree song about snow??
@georgiasutton7797 kind of? Spoilers again:
It's sung from the perspective of Lucy Gray's old boyfriend, but is sung to Snow as a secret message of where they should meet up to escape 12 that night.
@nate4353 I saw it last night so it's not spoiled for me.
@@nate4353 but didn't snow say he killed 3??
@georgiasutton7797 I've only read the book so far. But if I remember correctly, Snow didn't admit to Lucy Gray he had murdered 3 people until after they left 12. Lucy gray didn't know about Sejanus.
The man who was hung earlier for treason is "the man they say who murdered 3"
I think its either a coincidence or a parallel that Snow also murdered 3 people
Yes, I also like the theory of Katniss being Lucy Gray's reincarnation like the symbolism is beautiful though Lucy being her cousin grandmother makes more sense.
1:08:42 also i think he feels like katniss is not in love with peeta because he thinks she is cold like him. And he realized he never loved Lucy. He just loved the power she made him feel he had. So he assumes katniss is acting. He also felt Lucy never loved him. That she just did it to win the games. And at home she did it to get under her exs skin. This is not true. But he felt that way because he was incapable of love and he only uses people for personal gain, not for meaningful relationships
Wait that’s so good!
She never loved him in the first movie. It's the second movie she develops some emotions and last movie she truly love him. But not in the first movie
For me it's when Lucy is at the cabin she tells snows she loves the name Katniss for the plant which was a major hint for me.
she had to have survived bc in the movie she’s wearing a white dress but suddenly when snows chasing her she’s wearing the rainbow dress.. i’m sure he was hallucinating her
edit: i was wrong ☹️
That makes sense because he had just been bitten by the snake - it’s venom could cause hallucinations like the murder wasps.
@@JLB0880 in the books it is not a venomous snake tho and he does not see her in the rainbow dress, it is a slighty different set up. he does not see her at all after she leaves the hut, actually.
She actually is not wearing her rainbow dress. If you search up "snow shoots lucy gray" on youtube a bad quality video will show up, but if you slow it down to 0.25 speed you can see its the same dress she was wearing before. It's white with some black pattern on the bottom. It's just the same shape as the rainbow dress. Sorry to disappoint :(
@@jeremymacnamara1587 WTH UR RIGHT
All this hunger games content from all my very UA-camrs is just the highlight of my year. With the movie coming out tomorrow, and me waiting 4 years for thisss, I can't believe it's finally happeningggg.
Interesting. I always thought it was Plutarch (sp?) who was playing all the chess. He was the one whispering things in Coin & Snow's ear. He hinted to Katniss about the watch which doubled as a hint about the rebellion, but also a clue to the arena. Also, He was alluded to being an influence to Seneca. However, toward the end of the last book, Hammitch (i believe) says, "And they say no one ever wins the games..." (referring to Plutarch being the one who seemingly got out ahead in everything at the end).
In his letter to Katniss at the end of Mockingjay, he mentions that he wasn't surprised by her arrow killing Coin instead of Snow. In the movie, he also smirks after it happens, hinting that he also knew Coin was evil and maybe that he was hoping Katniss would kill her. Plutarch was all for the rebellion and played his cards right to get the best outcome possible
Coin also imprisons Katniss’ style team in inhumane conditions for a minor offense, she doesn’t care about pardoning Peeta/Enobaria/Annie/Johanna either, she’d be happy to have them killed/disposed of but luckily Katninss lists their rescue/welcome to District 13 as part of her conditions to become the Mockingjay
Tigris realizes at the end of the movie that he’s not the same as when he left and calls him on it subtly by calling him by his full name instead of his nickname
Exactly! You can tell there’s distrust starting, I don’t think she was oblivious to his true character for multiple more decades
Also the “you look just like your father”
I think it fits a little better that Coin is the child of Lucy and Snow- why her eyes are described as dilute and she is drained of all of her color. Imagine what would happen to the colorful bird Lucy having to live underground for the rest of her life? I imagine she would go the way Katniss’ mother went and Coin became the worst side of her father vs her mother (another parent pair dynamic). She carried on her mother’s song and story but in the darkest possible way. The ages would fit up much tighter.
You say "much tighter", but that version of events only brings them approximately halfway closer. Lucy Gray is 16 during her hunger games, so if she conceives a child with Snow then there's still a more or less 14 years gap between the child's age and the estimated age of Coin, according to Katniss. I love the idea of Coin being the result of Coriolanus & Lucy Gray, as a symbol that they really weren't a love match if this person is the product of that 'love', but the years still don't seem to add up
My theory is that Katniss is the Granddaughter of Maude Ivory Baird (hence would be the Lucy Grays cousin twice removed). This just makes more sense - Maude stayed in twelve would have been a good age to have grandchildren by the time of the 74th hunger games but also young enough to forget the traditions of the covey after lucy gray left.
I am so confused. I was convinced that Tigris' relation (in a general sense) to Snow was known before Ballads came out. Loved the Hunger Game movies, read the books once when they came out. Always just had the understanding that the whole Tigris being related to Snow wasnt a new bit of info... Anyone else?
Agree. It was clear to me since the hunger games original books that they were related
It was known that Tigris knew Snow. In Mockingjay, she says something along the lines of "I didn't always look like this, it was until Snow decided I wasn't pretty enough anymore."
But I don't remember if it's explicitly said that they were related.
Read the book and it is never even insinuated that Snow and Grey got busy, so I don't think Coin is related to Snow and Grey. I also doubt Grey came back to district 12 because she'd be too easily recognizable and too much of a threat. I could see her ending up in 13 IF she survived. I don't see how Katniss could be directly related to Grey.
Yeah I think at best her cousin Maude could’ve been been Katniss’s grandma or great grandma as she would also know the songs and pass them down to her children.
Anyone else want movies about Haymitch and Finnick’s stories!
Yes!! I have been saying this for years and years. Most interesting games we know of.
Haymitch story is coming in 2025
@@Cheezwizzie yes I heard fantastic can’t wait
Wil they make another story about snow growing up?
I wanna know more about Lucy
The 3rd Quell is almost certainly orchestrated, either by Snow in an attempt to quash the rebellion or Plutarch performing some sleight of hand, as in the film there’s a cut scene of Plutarch tampering with the envelope for it.
The 3rd QQ was most definitely orchestrated by Plutarch, since he was always in direct contact with district 13.
I think it’s was so incredibly obvious that Coin bombed the kids, it would literally do no good at all for Snow to literally bomb his own nations kids. I also think Coin definitely intended for Prim to die in the bombing because she knew that the medics would rush in to avenge those kids. Just another way for her to manipulate Katniss. I think it’s very possible that Coin has been manipulating the situation from the very beginning, just because things went way too perfectly. I remember really not liking Coin right off the bat when I read the books. She always gave me the ick. It’s kind of ironically funny that Gale is so jealous of Katniss and Peeta’s connection when he pushed her away, which isn’t totally unreasonable. It’s just unreasonable for him to be upset that Peeta perfectly filled the void he left.
It's more likely that Coin is Lucy's daughter, perhaps a daughter she had if Coriolanus and Lucy were intimate one time while he was visiting that lake house.
Lucy escapes to 13, finds out she's pregnant, gives birth to Alma and decides to raise Snow's daughter to take him down. She shares her experiences with Alma, and at some point dies. That drive to take down Snow that Lucy instills in Alma becomes foundational to her personality.
Most likely Alma realizes that in order to take down her father, she essentially has to become a pale version of him--which causes friction between mother and daughter, and likely would lead to Alma quietly killing her or Lucy escaping once again to live and die in the wilderness.
I agree with most but I actually take it further. I think Snow and Lucy have a baby boy. He leaves at a teen and heads back to 12, meeting Maude who's 9 years older. He's very mature bc he was raised under ground with no music, no nature. They have a son and he marries Katniss' mom
Lucy won't leave the underground bc she fears Snow SO much. She meets a kind man, someone leading the rebellion and has another child, Alma. Alma and the first child are half siblings. Alma HATES Snow for the life her mother had to live to feel safe so vows to avenge her mother.
@@Heartofitall9691No… I like the theory that Maude, who stayed in district 12, met someone from district 12 and eventually led to Katniss.
Maude is super young but would still be 8 years older than the child born by Lucy and Snow. It makes way more sense that Coin is Snow’s daughter from Lucy and she was raised to overtake Snow. It would have been 10 years or so after district 13 went underground and given that she knew so much Lucy probably would have been immediately put into some position of power giving her daughter the chance of becoming President
Lucy Gray was 16 years old though, during her hunger games, and ends up being around thirty years older than Coin. If she conceives Coin with Snow then the age difference between the child conceived at that time and the estimated age of Coin according to Katniss are still too far apart to make sense.
I have a theory that Lucy Gray could be President Coins mother. That theory would help with the timeline of 30ish years. If her mom had this vendetta against Snow she would grow up knowing about all his bad deeds and about almost killing her mom and would wanna take him down.
I really don’t think Lucy Gray is ever in love with Snow. We never once see inside her head in the book, never know her motivations or feelings. I personally cling to the empowering notion that she completely used him to stay alive and to save herself. In the film she looks like she’s going to barf when he goes to kiss her. Also, he realises this later and is why he’s so sure Katniss is just as duplicitous and ‘out to save her own skin’
She didn’t need him, she could have escaped at any time without him. It’s just like what she said. She values trust even more than love.
I believe that she both loved and trusted him, if not she definitely trusted him. She said so herself in the song she made for him. If I remember correctly one of the lines were, “That’s why I trust you” And you could see how happy she was to see him in the film when she was performing onstage. She looked rather relieved and in love
What girl I just watched this, the first time SHE tried kissing HIM , he pulled away, the second time they had them switch reactions to be cute about the first time. She didn't almost barf, and it's pretty obvious, they BOTH loved each other.
You don't write a song like that for somebody.You don't love. She trusted him.He just proved that she was wrong.
Or maybe Lucy Gray had a daughter who’s mother had told her the story of what happened to her. Maybe it was a daughters revenge for what had been done to her mother.
I’m more so thinking Katniss’s dad is actually from the covey line. With his singing and all it’s definitely possible.
Is anyone else thinking about the fact that Tigris had to be, like, well over 80 years old? She was apparently older than Snow, and they were children scavenging for food, several years before the first Hunger Games.
can you please do a theory video on how coin can be lucy gray and snow’s daughter? it seems too ironic that if she were trying to avenge her mothers death, she becomes too obsessed with the idea of taking down snow which is ALSO snow’s worst trait that when becoming overly obsessed with one he loses sight of everything else, that she gets taken down at the end of mocking jay instead
Lucy Grays daughter maybe but definitely not Snows. They never hooked up...
I also like it because of Tigereses final line to snow "you have your fathers eyes." Only now it's to Lucy she has her fathers eyes.
@@abc4828just because they didnt spell it out, doesnt mean they didnt. They spent time alone. It’s still possible.
@@abc4828 it was never said explicitly but it is very possible that they did. snow was in 12 for a while before going back to the capitol while spending one on one time with snow with lucy’s family covering for them
As they say in their review, there’s a common theme in the series of characters battling between the opposing ideals of their parents, so it would fit the narrative
Absolutely love these videos!! My jaw hit the floor when reading Mockingjay and Finnick revealed these traumas from his past. It brought a whole new level of darkness and depravity to this Hunger Games. After hearing the SCB theory on why Tigris isn't in the Games anymore, I'm totally sold. So excited to see the movie!! Tickets booked for Saturday 🎉
Just watched the film in the cinema and I personally love it!! 😊
@@littlelieb just saw it yesterday and also loved it 😁 there were a couple of bits I wasn't the biggest fan of, but overall I think it was a great adaptation and very glad I went to see it
It may not be the most popular opinion, but I have always believed Coin was evil, just as much if not more than Snow.
I agree
I think Katniss realized that too, hence the ending.
Not unpopular at all. Coin was worse than Snow and meant to kill Katniss first, then when she couldn't she figured the only way to refocus and control her was to kill her sister along with a bunch of other kids and let Snow take the blame for it so she (Coin) would seem like the hero and have Katniss' support. Thankfully Katniss eventually saw through that.
Agree! Katniss realized that in Catching fire when she said that if district 13 existed, she hates them because they sat back and let the other districts suffer at the hands of the Capitol. Snow mentions this in Mockingjay when he said that district 13 abandoned the other districts during the dark days when it looked like they were going to lose the war even though it was district 13 that started the uprising to begin with
Ok so we figured out Maude Ivory Baird is Katniss Everdeens paternal grandmother. Do we think Tam Amber or Clark Carmine may be her paternal grandfather? Is Tam Amber the goat man? Is Clark Carmine an ancestor of the lone fiddler who plays at Finnicks and Annies wedding? If so, why has Katniss never known any other Covey descendants? Have the remaining Covey maybe had some fight and stopped acknowledging eachother or were seperated by force? And what about Maysilee Donner and her mockingjay pin, the Covey seem to be the only folks to like the mockingjays? We can have a lot of fun theories until hopefully the saga is continued…
I think Maysilee was a member of the rebellion and joined after her twin sister died in the games. I think the plan was originally for Madge to volunteer for Prim as Madge says that she has to look good if she goes to the Capitol then makes sure to give Katniss the mockingjay pin asking her to wear it in the arena.
*I meant that Maysilee might’ve been a part of the resistance and her twin sister joined after her death.
Appreciate you guys putting them all in one video
Excellent synopsis! Alma Coin, (Alma = soul and Coin = grey or flip-side) is definitely the real villain in the series. I don’t think Coriolanus Snow lied to Katniss in the rose 🌹 greenhouse; he already suffered the consequences of a lie to Lucy Grey all those years ago. Not sure how much was planned but always thought that Plutarch Heavensbee was the real puppet master. In his letter to Katniss he states how he was the only one who was unsurprised by her actions i.e. executing Coin.🪙 Will be watching more of your videos!
Katniss comments at least once that the Reapings seem to be rigged, as Victors’ children/relatives seem to be chosen as tributes with alarming regularity ( Mags’ granddaughter is canon, I believe).
Agreed. We also know that Lucy Gray’s reaping was rigged.
Gale makes the comments regarding alleged frauds in the reaping, Katniss just recounts it in her narration.
I think the main thing to discredit the idea that Lucy Gray is Coin is that Coin killed Prim. Lucy Gray would not do that
Yeah I think she’s related to Maude Ivory also. Plutarch Hevensbee tells Cressida about Tigris. I think Coin could be Lucy Greys daughter.
I think if that is the case, Coin's true father is Snow. I think Lucy was very early pregnant when she and Snow left District 12... why else would she leave the Covey if not to protect her child from the dangers of the Districts and Capitol??? If she is Lucy's daughter and was taught how dangerous Snow could be, she would want to stop him.....and if he knew or recognized her (resembling Lucy) it makes his manipulating Katniss to shoot Coin even that much more treacherous.
Ok, alternative theory, Katniss is Lucy Gray's granddaughter, but she is also Snow's. Suppose her and Snow did get a little frisky and Lucy Gray escapes before she knows she is pregnant. It would help to explain Snow's weird obsession and Katniss' oddly good political skills. She is also less outgoing than Lucy Gray, and more standoffish like Snow.
Loved the video :D Just one thought, maybe if there is an age gap it's because ALMA COIN is not lucy gray but her daughter. I've seen this theory with an unnamed father but in my opinion she could be snow and lucy gray's daughter... After all they were together for quite sometimes romantically involved before deciding to escape. What if LUCY GRAY survived and gave birth to a daughter : That would explain the washed out colors of her eyes, the fact that she knows everything about their love story to manipulate Snow and her similar descent to darkness when she is given power. ALMA is the name of the ballad, which follows the tradition of the coveys, and coin would be because there is too faces to COIN herself.(the good leadership as shown in D13 to help the rebellion and the evil when she is given the opportunity for revenge) As demonstrated by ballad of bird and snake you have the influence of both your mother and father in you. Alma Coin is just as bad as Snow because she is his actual descendant....
I love the theory of Coin's big plan beginning long before Katniss had been selected and Katniss being her personal pawn in her revolution. But you didn't mention one specific situation that I think is also very crucial and interesting to analyze. Coin wanted to rescue Peeta from the Quarter Quell. In the first chapter of Mockingjay, Katniss overhears Coin saying ''I told you we should've rescued the boy''. What exactly made her say that? What made her believe that after all those years of planning, choosing the best person for that games, giving Katniss best chances of survival at every turn suddenly made her want to ditch Katniss and choose Peeta instead, just when the rebelion truly, TRULY began? Yes, Coin realizes that she doesn't have full support and control of Katniss, for which she greatly dislikes her and does whatever it takes to always make her (Coin) look in control anyway, but that comes into surface after Katniss arrives in District 13. The only thing that comes to my mind is that Coin realizes Peeta is better with words, can truly pull at heartstrings, etc. (so can Katniss, but she has to be put in a risky situation in order to evoke some spontaneity in her, as Peeta doesn't have to) and he could've been a perfect voice for the rebels. He would've been the broken lover who lost his love in the war. But I also don't think Capitol would execute Katniss if they took her instead. Propably would hijack her and use her archery skills to make her a Capitol assassin. Rebels were mad at Peeta for asking for a ceafire, but he was not the face of the revolution. He became a traitor, but the true symbol of the revolution was on rebel's side. If the Mockingjay suddenly appeared on Capitol's side, that would likely change the course of the war. Would that be a risk Coin was willing to take? I'm just babbling at this point, but I'm surprised no one mentioned that part and I'm curious about other people's opinions.
It’s the fact that she must’ve realized that she picked the one that could not be controlled. That’s probably why she changed her mind to the one who could be, the one who is slightly more weak willed..
Here's a theory Coin is Lucy Grey's daughter with Snow. It would explain her knowledge and extensive plans surrounding Snow
We need hunger games what if. Just like you guys did for Harry Potter
It could be that Lucy Gray is Katniss’ great-aunt! Lucy Gray’s sister may have had Katniss’ father, and Katniss’ father may have met Katniss’ mother and they may have had Katniss and Primrose!
Lucy Gray cannot be the president of 13. She would be 81 in the time of the third quarter quell. It’s more realistic that Lucy Gray had a child at 30 ish, and that’s the President of 13
It’s more likely that Lucy is related to katnis than it is that she’s coin
Coin isn’t old enough. Coin is similar in age to Katness mother. Whereas if she was Lucy gray she’d be similar in age to Maggs.
My own theory of their relation
Is that katniss name has a relation to a plant that lucy named, saying she preferred calling it that rather than the original name, and in mokinjay part 2 we see peeta calling a plant that he found (primrose) he called it which guves a hint that both katniss amd prim were named after plants, which would most likely come from their mother who handles herbs as seen the humger games then the question is if katniss is named after a plant where did the mother hear the name from as the name for the plant was created by Lucy, so they had to be a relation maybe lucy never actually left district 12 and stayed in the mountains where katniss and gale wanted to run off too and coincidentally where peeta found the prim rose, and maybe thats what caught snow attention to katniss her name?.
Correct me if im wrong it has been insanely long since i last watched the hunger games
Could Cena be Tigress’s son hidden in plain sight trained by his mother and they are both rebels so his death could be the final straw for her
Coin must have engineered that bombing of the hospital in 8, she probably tipped the Capitol off somehow that Katniss would be there. It also parallels the parachute bombings that kill Prim.
Agreed! I definitely think Everdeen somehow got changed from Evergreen down the line, esp when knowing the was a Spruce family.
I believe Lucy had Snow's son but had him smuggled back to 12 to be raised by Maude and the Covey for some reason (maybe she wanted his talents to shine?) Music, color was banned in the underground 13 where she hated EVERYTHING about it. She went on to have another daughter, Alma 3 years later which would make Alma 20 years younger than Snow, or 60 which, living underground with no sun damage could explain why Katniss mistook her for "50 or so".
Lucy's oldest, Snow's son, meanwhile was raised by Maude and the Covey, I believe the Bairds are going to end up relatives of Tigris from her mother's side based on (SPOILER) Maude having blonde hair like Tigris in the movie. I believe with movies like this, EVERYTHING is done with purpose and Maude was a lot older in the movie and they had to cut A LOT about her from the book out, do I feel like they intentionally gave us visual clues.
Maude raises the son who has a son. That son marries Katniss' mom. He's the one who teaches Katniss everything covey. I also believe we will learn more about both of Katniss' parents. Suzanne threw some clues in that otherwise would have been pulled, like Peeta's dad having a thing for Katniss' mom back in the day. Like, who cares?? Unless it means something. We see Katniss didn't inherit the love of performing like the rest of the Coveys, but she had an inner grit that her mother didn't possess based on how she shut down when the father got killed in the mine, so can't wait for the next surprise Suzanne has in store for the series!
The Evergreen family tree will be quite interesting to learn about, as will the history of Coin (reminiscent of a "copper penny"? "Silver coin"? We read that Maude pointed out to Snow how his name was similar to Covey names bc Snow is white. And, that points to Spruce and Evergreen=forest green color as well). I just don't know that Lucy would be the mother of Alma bc it's too obvious and simple, and it doesn't leave much for Katniss in regards to all of the similarities, clues and things her father taught her. Plus, I just don't think Lucy could have raised a daughter underground and kept her from the life she loved so much, unless she somehow got sick and died or something TRAGIC
1 hour 43 minutes of heaven
25:18 Tesserae? Aka the thing that you give out to starving ppl in the books? Aka a last situation to not spend much on food..huh
and the fact both katniss, and Lucy performed it by water, out in the open, away from the actual Hanging tree - between 12th and 13th district
Rachel Ziegler is now going around saying how happy she is that Katniss is not related to Lucy in any way. So there goes that theory.
Lucy Grey has problems lighting fire with flint, suggests carrying coal. Katniss is the girl on Fire. Lucy lit the spark, Katniss burned it down.
At the very least katniss is related to the covey people. Her dad was a singer and he held on to so much individuality
Imagine he did hit her or injured her in some way that left her incapable of singing ever again. Sounds like a good reason for someone who lives to sing to speak vengeance after lost of trust
"But like, oh my gosh if it is" is such a golden phrase of incredulity, thank you.
Coins big plan theory is so legit I believe it all. Suzanne collins writes so meticulously and leaves breadcrumbs that are up for multiple interpretations but everything is intentional. Great vid
LOVE your content and work guys! Your hardwork and dedication is always appreciated😊😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
THANKS SO MUCH!
@@SuperCarlinBrothersAlways ❤❤❤❤
@@SuperCarlinBrothershi🎉
Katniss and Peeta’s kids: Mom how did you meet Dad? Katniss:umm honey can you tell them that story
All your theories are good, but that last one about coin…. man you nailed that so good. Thank you. There were so many things that I couldn’t quite put together and you were able to so well like absolutely perfect. Thank you so much.❤❤❤
Lucy Gray can't be Coin. She was a teenager in the tenth games, so she would be the same age as Snow. I'm the book, Coin is supposed to be in her 50s. Mathematically impossible.
I think that Lucy Gray is Greasy Sae. That could make the Mockingjay pin planned. No matter which story you go with. If you go with the movie, she could have been part of the rebellion and knew that Katniss would be a tribute, so she gave her the pin to agitate Snow. If you go with the Madge story in the book. Greasy Sae could have had the same thought, and gave the pin to Maysilee when she went to the hunger games. Maybe she was supposed to survive, but was killed by the birds. The pin then was passed to Madge.
I kinda thought they were more hunting that Coin was Snow's daughter with Gray.
Great video, I don’t think there is any chance coin is Lucy Gray. The age doesn’t make sense but more than that, I don’t see any way in which Lucy Gray could become a monster based off her actions in the last theory.
It could be Lucy Grays daughter who has a separate personality from her mother’s but even that I find unlikely. I don’t doubt that Lucy Gray found district 13 and maybe told the people stories from the events in the ballad of songbird and snakes.
WHY THE F*** would Alma Coin be Lucy Gray ?!?! That makes NO sense. If Lucy made it to district 13 she wouldn’t be an alias.
I think it is significantly more likely Coin is Lucy’s daughter. She would be the right age for that and could have been told all of the info she needed for the plan by her mom. And having a father from 13 who was used to that more austere lifestyle would explain her focus on simplicity as opposed to her mom’s love of color and music.
Can’t wait for your review of the film! 😊 I just came home from the cinema and I personally loved it, I was pleasantly surprised 😊
i can just imagine his shifting the chair between every take and it’s so funny lol
love these longer works! puts everithing in a larger context!
i love these longer videos! i love watching them while i’m working or drawing and getting ready for bed :)
I love how Evergreene is a Covey name 😍
I’ve been a huge fan of the Hunger Games series, watching you discuss theories and relating the movies to the books has really got me thinking. While watching I have been googling things about characters and searching up Reddit forum theories. Such interesting takes you have. You gained a fan.
when i watched the prequel i couldn't help but relate it to macbeth. The greed for power is so similar between macbeth and corylanus. I wonder if anyone else agrees
40:14 it's also possible that Coin got some cosmetic work done to make sure no one from the capital recognized her
The only way I could see Katniss and Lucy being directly related are if Lucy somehow had a kid before the start of the book, or if Lucy survived, met up with others living in the woods, and when Katniss' dad was young, Panem found them and forced them into a district (as theoretically there would be a good period of time where there are people that haven't been forced to join Panem or 13)
Dr. Gaul mutilated Tigris - and Snow, making his choice of loyalties, allowed it.
You guys should do a theory or what if on Avatar the last Airbender. A what if I always liked is what if Zuko was either never banished or banished with no quest for the avatar and no hope of ever going back home. We also need a what if for Prim going into the games and somehow becoming the Mockingjay... Not sure how but I say it needs to happen.
I have always suspected that Katniss' father was part of the earlier stages of the rebellion. It would make sense that he was sent to District 12 from 13 (by his mother Lucy Grey or someone from the group?) to help the rebellion in some way. It would explain why he taught Katniss the hanging tree song, how he was such a skilled hunter or why he knew where the old house by the lake was (etc.). I'm not sure if he was specifically training his daughter to be the "Mocking Jay" but he was definitely preparing her for something. Even if it was just to survive in the woods with her sister when the rebellion started, but I think he died before any real plans could be implemented. I believe that the Mayor and his family were part of the rebellion as well. That is why Madge gave Katniss the Mockingjay pin. Maybe it was a signal to the others that Katniss is "the chosen one" and the plan is now set in motion. As we know, Madge's Aunt Maysilee was in the hunger games with Haymitch giving them. I've also speculated that the rebellion orchestrated the naming of Prim as the Tribute because they expected Katniss would volunteer... triggering the start of the rebellion. She must have been chosen as the Mockingjay in advance because the Hunger Games arena that year was obviously designed specifically for Katniss giving her a huge advantage. But anyways... I could go on, however you get the point.
Lucy Gray goes on to be Coin who wears a lot of.....gray clothes.
I think a more plausible explanation would be that coin is Lucy Gray's daughter, and she simply was told the story from her mother. Solves the age thing, all the other stuff still lines up, and doesn't require Lucy to have a 180 degree character shift.
I love how much research you put into your theories. They're often theories that I've thought of in a vague sense, but to have them presented in an entertaining way that lays out all of the facts and the speculation... I rarely come away from one of these without being 100% convinced that you're right and the author always intended it that way 😝
I don't think that Coin is Lucy Gray mainly because of the actions Coin takes to achieve her goals. If you remember Lucy Gray is SUPER put off by the fact that Snow killed someone else she doesn't know about, now this is telling that Lucy Gray does not like the idea of murder not only that but it makes sense with her character. Which wouldn't make sense is what Coin goes on to do (killing people for the sole purpose of her cause) it just doesn't track one bit with the royal compass of Lucy Gray and while I believe that things can change and people do as well I just don't think they change that much as to someone who has a very clear moral right and wrong to someone who is willing to kill her own people for her cause of getting back at Snow
I was hoping for a new theory, these are just compiled SCB theories from the last few months.
I’m so glad you used the books instead of the movies because the pin made me so mad in the movie
The one arguments that makes me disregard the whole rebellion masterplan theory is Haymitch. If Katniss and Peeta had been planted in the games on purpose, Haymitch surely would have been in on it by then. He is a crucial factor to their success, and was previously probably known for not even really being there as a mentor. They had to convince him they have a chance
I would love to see more hunger games theories
I’ve watched all your videos regarding the hunger games (as well as keeping up with more regular content) but I feel like there has to be more to dive into with the hunger games
The bow Lucy gives is the same one as Katniss gives when she’s was ignored after shooting the apple… idk thought that detail was cool 😊
Great video guys
I legit want an entire TV show following Ballad. That portrayal of Snow was just as fantastic, and I really enjoy that character and the world of Panem. I'd like to have 6 seasons or so spread out over years (not just one year after another, but several important years). Each one, highlight 3 stories - Snow continuing his GOT level political rise with assassinations, brilliance, etc, Coin being raised by Lucy in District 13 to learn about her father and hate him, and 2 different tributes each time that played key roles in that year's game and also give us insight into exploring 2 new districts. Do that for 6 seasons and explore all 12 districts throughly, while chronicling the next 40 years of Snow's life, as well as the growth of Lucy. Then have a final season where you do the 50th game and give us young Hamitch. I would also be game for Finnick's game too. But that seems like it could be an awesome series. See some of Snow as a college student and young adult learning from Gaul, then as a middle aged man taking over the political system and building the games into what it would become, and then ending it with Hamitch and his crown jewel of a game to this point. I would certainly be game for a Finnick season too, or a BeeTee season, but that is up to the success of the show. I just want more of this. You could do 3 seasons with this current actor and then 3-4 season with Kiefer taking over as his father's character. That would simply be insane and I would watch that for sure.
Anyone else catch the Tesserae meaning change? In the prequel it’s referring to the little makeshift buttons from the bathroom wall and in the trilogy it’s referring to the oil and grain the kids can earn only during the reaping. Both brought up in a very dark and struggling time.
It’s not such a small world that everyone has to be related to everyone else. Lucy Gray could’ve influenced people in district 13, without necessarily being Coin. Also, she would’ve had to get a pretty significant education and changed her dialect in order to be Coin.
Really interested in theories about the relationship between Katniss and Lucy Grey. I think Katniss father is the offspring of Lucy and Snow. Lucy hid him out in the forest until he was too old to be reaped. It wasn’t until Katniss was old enough for the Games that the blood test (remember that from the first film?) identified her as a relation. He couldn’t do anything for those games, as we know the tributes are picked in advance. He had his own son immediately killed in a mining ‘accident’ though, expecting his granddaughters to starve quickly. When they don’t, he arranges for Prim to be reaped, as this is the most devastating thing he can imagine for the family
I don’t think Snow knew Katniss might be connected to Lucy until the end of the third film. He seemed he came to a realization or come across some kind of information after he thought Katniss was dead. His demeanor was different toward her after that in the greenhouse. He didn’t have to tell her about Coin or give condolences.
I felt he was almost relieved when he saw she was alive.
I might be over reading it though.
He definitely would have been trying to dig up history or information to use against her.
You guys always make My day 🎉🎉😊😊😊😊
Love this Super Cut, I'm so hyped for the movie tomorrow, love your content!!!☺☺☺
I don't believe Coin is Grey. But it do believe it's possible that Coin is the daughter of Snow and Lucy Grey. Or is Lucy Grey's daughter.
Now I have to rewatch the whole series. Thank you!