Part 2: The Rega P10 - Why? (A story of engineering humility & determination)
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- Of all turntable manufacturers why would I choose Rega for our listening rooms? And why specifically the P10? This video looks into the engineering challenges all turntable designers have to overcome, to achieve a world beating performance.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
07:40 Vibration experiment
09:33 More about Rega
13:40 The six main challenges
14:01 Motor
16:52 Main bearing
18:23 Connectivity/drivetrain
20:34 Plinth
23:39 Pick-up arm (tonearm)
27:13 Platter
An interesting link to a film made Chris Purcell of Right Angle films on 50 years of Rega, featuring the P10 (just released very recently 18 September, 2023). Enjoy. Click here: rightanglefilms.co.uk/news
As always, if you would like to find out more about Pearl Acoustics and our Sibelius loudspeakers, please visit our website at:
www.pearlacoustics.com
or email us with your questions:
enquiries@pearlacoustics.com
Social media links:
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/ pearl.acoustics - Навчання та стиль
You sold more REGA turntables here than any promo video they ever made.
Superb
Thank you. I thought I was just telling a story of its design and creation but it seems that many people found the video interesting.
Great episode! Fantastic story. Thanks for doing this.
You’re very welcome
Wonderful. Cannot wait for more.
Thanks
really enjoyed this, incredibly interesting. Thanks for posting
Thanks Kevin. Very kind!
I started with a P8/Apheta3 and had the opportunity to compare to a P10/Apheta3 through my Class A electronics and Revel Salon2 speakers. There was a noticeable and meaningful improvement in sound staging and lower noise floor. I upgraded without giving it a second thought.
Thanks for sharing! Glad I was not the only one to notice!
Great company & products. I’ve had some of their kit that is almost 40 years old and it’s still going strong 👏👏👏
Another superb video Harley. I really like your calm, thoughtful and methodical approach, and the pacing of your comments interspersed with great visuals. Loved the wine glass demonstration too. Can't wait for Part 3, but Yes is the answer!
Thanks you are really very kind
@@jumpingwhale thanks!
A fascinating and inspirational story - explained clearly and succinctly with real enthusiasm. Thankyou.
Thank you Bob. Very kind
What a great and informative video. Thank you.
You’re very welcome
thank you for this interesting video…. I continue to be intrigued with Rega, the company and products. Be well!
Thank you!
Great video and easy to understand explanation of Rega’s quest to dissipate vibration with low mass. Looking forward to part 3.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you for one one of the best explanations of the fabrication of a turntable that is also a piece of art.
You're very welcome!
Thank your for these videos. Hope you make many more as long as it interests you to do so. I own the P10 and spent the past summer listening to much higher priced turntables and of course, all were greater mass. I never got the sense that these tables delivered the music in a better way than the Rega. It was an enlightening experience.
Thank you for your kind words and interesting comment
This video is brilliant. Have not learned so much from a video in a long while.
Thank you. You're very kind
Thank you for a really intelligent video
Thank you. You’re very welcome
Thank you again for a great video.
I am excited about the chapter 3.
And I ask you,... please, do more videos about the other gear you are going to use in the listening room (digital sources, amp,...)
Thanks. Much appreciated! I will keep going as long as people want to watch, are polite in their comments snd I have the health and time. 😉
Hello Harley, your insights sure takes the guess work out of buying the Rega P10. Also the fav light you have cast on Mr Gandy makes Rega a technically and musically sound buy ! I very much look forward to Part 3.
Thank you, very kind. Pt3. Will be in January
great video and very interesting!
Thank you!
Rega makes a wonderful turntable in just about every budget range. The P8 and P10 are unique looking, but there is no doubt that they sound amazing.
yes ,all others were really bad, one would pay 300 dollars for the turntable it self ,than the plinth ,the arm , the engine and the cartridge with a stylus,this in 1979, not bits of plastic with a mdf table and a engine nothing else inside wich is strange normally was more complex to get a worst sound
I have really enjoyed this video/podcast. It was instructive and illuminating in some ways. Now I have a bigger respect for Rega!
Thank you for your very kind remarks
Now I know that deck! Lovely piece indeed.
It really is! 👍
What a terrific video, Harley. I thought that if I ever upgrade from my Clearaudio Concept, I would probably go for the Rega P6. So fascinating to hear about the amazing engineering behind Rega's products. Thanks.
Thank you. Very kind.
Buy the Rega, but don't buy expensive power cords and interconnects. They are a scam.
Very good, thanks for info.
You're welcome. Thanks!
Very nice review - Like you, I have very fond memories concerning the MG Midget. A week before my best friend was deployed to Vietnam, he borrowed his mother's MG Midget (it was also red). We went out and misbehaved. The fun part with the MG was the fact that it was so low, the doors would not open when parked next to a sidewalk with high curbs. To get out of the car, I spent the day rolling out of the MG onto the sidewalk. All the best, Paul
Lovely story, thanks! And thanks for your appreciation
Harley what a great discussion. I’ve never heard it done better when it comes to turntables. I have a P6 and I was drawn to it for the external power source. I love it and use it almost every day. I was fascinated by Rega as a company going against the grain with less mass for vibration control. Got to admire engineers who see things differently and pursue perfection like that. I’m glad to see you’re a car enthusiast as well. I have a Porsche 911 and its the same forward thinking and engineering that draws me to Porsche. I can’t wait to hear your thoughts in Part 3.
Thank you. You’re very kind. Lovely to read your comment
I'm finally watching the complete "trilogy", carefully, from top to bottom. Like I said before: fascinating. 😊🔝
Thanks!
Nicely told story about Rega turntable philosophy and their never ending quest for affordable quality at all levels. Many thanks.
Thank you. Very kind
Such an excellent presentation and analysis of the main variables. Great insight. I genuinely think the de-mystifying of the art of great turntable engineering is vital to the progress of its availability to the masses. Rega team defy all the odds to bring ridiculous listening pleasure to those on a modest income. I reckon I've spent less than £1.25k on my RP3 and its upgrades and I don't think I'll ever sell it on. Thanks for making such cohesive and coherent videos.
Thank you Stevie. you're very welcome. I am glad you appreciate them.
Roy Gandy is a really amazing person I have met him a few times over the years. He listens to what you say in a conversation and responds wonderfully and with great humility. I am intrigued to hear the P10 in full cry! I remember starting off with a Planar 3 as my first turntable and it was good as a very honest well engineered record player.
Indeed, humility is a very good adjective for him.
That was brilliant! Thank you.
You’re very welcome Paul
@@PearlAcoustics I love great sound. I grew up living next door to my uncle who started building an Electronic Organ before I was born. I was born in 1949. I spent many years helping him. I eventually became chief engineer for Hammond Organ UK Ltd. I still use a Pioneer PL12D to play my Vinyl.
@@7649angel what a lovely story, thank you!
Very interesting and in depth analysis of the turntable, I am looking forward to part 3.
It’s always a pleasure watching your videos. Thank you
Thank you. You’re very kind
Harley: You are an exceptional teacher, and have a way with words. I’m no more than a novice, and these sophisticated concepts are now fully understood. Thank you, kindly.
You’re very welcome. I am glad you enjoy and appreciate them.
Excellent video. Hope more people who are still hard-stuck on the old methods of producing high-end turntables see this video and possibly open up more options to modern innovations such as Rega's. P10 is also on my wishlist for my end-game table, and that's with visiting multiple audio shows and showrooms with comparable high-mass turntables!
Thanks!
The tecnicalities around developing/producing a high quality standard turntable are really amazing! Thanks for the lessons ;-) !
My pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it
you only learn that a bad turntable is good for you ,a 100€ technics in early 90´s would sound 1000x better, this is undeveloping and unlearning for very high prices ,in my time that was called a steal or a robbery or i would prefer burglery
I listened to the Rega p10 , p 8 and Technics 1200G I like the Technics sound Better
@@RUfromthe40s agree
@@chichanleon123 , with same cell ?
Wonderfull Video, for all the reasons you mentioned is why I chose to get a Rega P3!
Mass = Money, turntables built on mass are just unaffordable, I like my hifi regardless of sound to look understated!
Thank you 🙏
ebay have the Rega P10 for £3000 or more depending on the cartridge, which is even more affordable than brand new, many are less than a year old. Part 3 eagerly awaited.
Thank you Harley for this wonderful explanation of the technology that goes into a very good turntable. I'm also a Formula 1 race car fan so the connection between those high tech cars and a premium piece of audio tech fascinates me to no end. I half expected you to go into the aerodynamics of the Rega P10 at any moment knowing how important that particular dynamic is to a F1 race car. Of course I'm not serious about aerodynamics as they pertain to turntables but hopefully that gives you some idea about what a complete job I think you have done on this video. I so look forward to the third installment on audio tech that is forthcoming. p.s. I too once owned a MG sports car. Mine being the MGB from1971 thus I can really relate to the comparison and/or analogy you used with cars and turntables.
Thanks Richard!
Fabulous video ! . I've always admired REGA for their constant fight to improve their products, even though it must be so difficult with such a fine margin. I don't own a turntable at this present time, but this video has sure got me thinking about a REGA, and my late uncles record collection (2000 LP's) that maybe I should give a spin.
Thank you. 2000LP’s, wow - if you liked his taste, then what are you waiting for? 😀
@@PearlAcoustics well he was my main influence in music, and there sure are a lot of classics in his collection. There is even a copy of dsotm pink Floyd with the solid blue triangle and poster and stickers intact.
Currently own the Rega Planar 6 with Ania MC cartridge. Love it! I’ve been using Rega Turntables since the 80’s starting with the P3. When I traded in the Planar 3 in 2020, it was still running great 35 years later! The P6 is even better and my end game turntable. The book on Rega - titled: “A Vibration Measuring Machine”, is a fascinating read for anyone interested in the story of Rega. Deep respect for their engineering approach. When people refer to Roy as a great turntable designer, he corrects them, stating that he is a mechanical engineer.
but ddoesn´t know what direct drive is or a mechanical system to change speed instead of soiling it everytime you chjange speed makinìt be uncurate in speed the older people wanted a stroboscope ,what the hell did they knew about thjat music was only good after the year 2000,strangelly most of the guitars used are from the 50´s to the 60´s as their amplifiers and speakers
what an awesome story. I'm a big F1 fan as well, liked the references. Are you using some form of auto cue, because it' s always such a natural one-taker, very impressive :) Looking forward to part 3!
Thank you. Very kind. No auto cue. Just pure improvisation. Everything in one take.
Fine appraisal. Bought my P10 back in August 2020 and the best decision, no question about it.
Thanks
Very interesting Thankyou for taking the time to make the video. I had my heart set on a Technics SL-1200G I thought this would have been high on your list.
You saw the glass. Wow and flutter on the Technics, big selling point. Unwanted energy reproduction? Hmm.
Hi your Technics SL 1200 has been around in similar forms since around 1970ish, I don't think I have read any bad reviews over the years, you have a massive selection of interchangeable headshells and cartridges to choose from. Your ears won't hear any wows and fluttery things when your playing Eva Cassidy live and loud from Blues Ally. Buy Technics and enjoy.
Technics are fine. In fact they are excellent. Very convenient to use. But not in the direction I want to go. I am looking for purity in sound and precision.
@@PearlAcoustics hi just seen your comment don’t know why UA-cam isn’t alerting me to replies. If I get Planar 10, Sibelius speakers, what amp would you recommend to go with it?
@@mudachuka12345 hi, oh that’s a big question. If you reach out to me or Ajay, via enquiries @ PearlAcoustics, I would be happy to go into that with you.
Best wishes, Harley
Fantastic video, thank you for the time and effort you put into it and your series!
It is extremely difficult, nearly impossible, to compare turntables objectively. And even in the unlikely event of perfect conditions (same speakers, cartridge (synergy?!), source, environment!), you can't "match" personal tastes, of course.
Glad you found your perfect choice, enjoy the astonishing P10! It is definitely on my shortlis of possible future upgrade-paths...
Meanwhile, I've been enjoying my Technics SL1200GR + Ortofon 2M black or AT33PTG/ii for 5 years now, wonderful sounding combinations, in my opinion ❤
By the way: You should maybe consider purchasing the new UHQR Steely Dan - "Aja" release for your showroom. One of the, if not THE best sounding record I have ever heard (and I honestly heard a lot 😊).
All the best,
Michael from Germany
Thanks Michael for your very motivational comment. If you’ve been enjoying your turntable for over 5 years then I don’t think there’s much point in upgrading, you might even regret it! The Technics definitely has its advantages.
Enjoy the music. Best wishes from Belgium
Very good video !! 👍👍
And your english is perfect !!
I bougt the Rega P9 (rb 900) in 1997... It was a fantastic turntable !!
Now I will perhaps buy the new Rega Naia because i agree with the approach Rega engineering....
Best regards from France 🇫🇷
Thanks a lot!
I once had a mk2 240 jaguar 2.4 in red, it was 1998, I remember chased my friend home from wales in his Italian super car and was amazed as I put it in overdrive and it eventually, slowly crept up to 100mph, wowee! I never saw the friend as he was away up the road, but was amazed how this 1968 2.4 got me up to 105 on the m56, this in the days before the proliferation of speed cameras, then I started to get a strong smell of burning diff oil , mmmm, time to take it back to a more steady 70….at this time I was running a hifi shop in east Cheshire, a shop that no longer exists. The jaguar ended up sold and exported to New Zealand and with it I was able to buy my home. My first turntable was a Rega P3. I used to call it the Rega Planar 3, Many thanks for your perspective I’ve enjoyed these videos.
Nice story! Thanks for sharing. And thanks for your kind appreciation!
THANKS HARLEY🤗 FOR GOING INTO SUCH GREAT DETAIL TO EXPLAIN 🧐 … WHY REGA GO TO EXTREMES FOR THE PURSUIT OF PERFECTION 😎💚💚💚
You’re very welcome! Thanks for watching
I wholeheartedly agree with your analogy of a honed version of an old design versus a modern clean sheet one. I was also of the opinion that I was future proofing myself by going for the P10 - each element being designed without having to conform to previous ideas of what a turntable should look like (some having more effort put into the finish that it becomes a piece of furniture!) The Tan cast foam, the EBLT belts, that wonderful RB3000 tonearm which is so free of play with no VTA adjustment being a further example of how that analyse every factor and the ceramic platter for as dead a material as possible.
And to cap it all it's not second mortgage money so it's not priced out of the market like some esoterica (SME, TechDas, Kronos, Kuzma, etc.)
Thank you for your contribution to this discussion
A Vibrating Mesauring Machine, very good entertainment and knowledge book.
Roy Gandy´s life and Rega´s history in one good book.
Christmas gift for anyone interested in Rega.
Thanks!
I discovered this channel quite by accident. Thoroughly enjoyable and educational. I am an audiophile in much the same way that a brick isn't. I am, though, baffled by the fact that Rega has left the "closed cell" foam core open on the edges and wonder how changes in humidity might affect the density of the core and ergo the sound of the turntable.
Hi Doug. I think you can rest assured that because if the type of foam and that it is closed cell. That humidity will have absolutely no impact on it. It is not spongelike. - I hope! 😀
Great discussion and demonstration. I know the "high mass" school of thought puts most of the mass in some form of suspension (springs, etc), which I guess is one way to reduce the vibration at the stylus. Of course, this tends to also require a higher degree of "tweaking" to ensure proper level, tension, etc.
I really appreciate the relative simplicity of Rega's approach - more of a "set it and forget it" implementation, which I like. I have friends with high mass turntable setups, which sound fantastic - when they are in perfect adjustment. However, they seem to constantly be tweaking and adjusting them. Meanwhile, I thoroughly enjoy listening to my P6/Ania, which I have not touched since initial setup 3 years ago, and it still sounds phenomenal.
I can understand the aesthetic appeal of a massive platter/tonearm assembly floating on a delicate (but finicky) suspension within a massive superstructure, but I'd personally prefer to set my turntable up once and pretty much leave it as is.
Although polarizing, I find Rega's minimalist sculptural design to be quite beautiful, and I also appreciate the level of engineering sophistication required to achieve the resulting performance. I find it humorous to read people characterizing the new tables as "flimsy packing foam" or other fairly ignorant slights.
The P10 is high on my list, and after seeing how much maintenance my friends must put into their high mass tables (for no noticeable difference in sound quality to my ears), I am sold on the Rega school of thought.
Thanks for your very kind words. And thanks too, for adding your thoughts to the debate. They are very welcome
A big thumbs up for the for the folks from Philadelphia who traveled to the listening room. I'm envious 🙂
Hi Frank! We also have listening rooms in Toronto, New York, London snd Budapest, apart from Brussels. Not all the same but similar…
@@PearlAcoustics Good to know. Thanks. I always enjoy your videos.
part of my enjoyment, I have to admit, was seeing how the basic design philosophy adapted in the industry leading rega design, and explained so coherently in this video, was also utilized somewhat in my own turntable, although the design objectives differ when it comes to cost and the plinth suspension, since rega would never incorporate a hanging spring acoustic isolation design such as my more cost constrained Michell gyro does. But the basic design understandings are solid, and I often use them to analyze whatever new product I might come across in reports.
since I live in an area famous for aero space machine work, I disagree about special locations for precision machining, but do agree that there is such a thing as institutional knowledge, gained when one concentrates on building one type of product to an exceptional standard over time.
Although the reduced cost of my demo Michell gyro turntable greatly influenced my buying decision, I did go for a new Michell arm, which, like so many others , is simply a tastefully modified Rega arm. Why reinvent the wheel , when there is no need .
Since human hearing is so subjective, I think a lot of the value perceived in the ultra expensive audio stuff is just desire and ego gratification. since hearing , and Hi Fi itself, is all a process of illusion, at some point one has to question the need for a whole battle ship of a playback system, since fun shouldn't really be that demanding. Of course, if you want to be a Hi Fi nut, live it up, I have always adapted a position of being solidly pro fun, and that record is unchanged to this day, and unblemished.
Richard, the human ear is the best and final arbiter of sound quality. At what level we become satisfied is the prerogative of each individual. The quest of trying to match a 'battle ship playback system' with polystyrene float money is both rewarding and great fun. The joy of this hobby is that excellent sound can be achieved affordably through time and effort. There is, however, nothing wrong with those who cannot afford either the time or effort but have the resources to leapfrog to high quality instantly. I understand and appreciate your approach and sentiments, but just wish to add that us 'hi-fi nuts' can both avoid spending mega money and thoroughly enjoy the journey.
Thanks for your comment. I see HiFi as one of either two things: a necessary tool to do my work or a fun way to spend my time acquiring equipment and learning about design and history. And of course ( in both cases - listening to music). However, just like some want to spend money in cars or watches or antiques, others choose HiFi. Adjusting budget to suit. there’s a place for all. Enjoy!
Very interesting. I bought a P10 last year after buying a pointlessly heavy Dr F table and becoming so frustrated with it, Looking fwd to your next episode.
Thank you!
@@PearlAcousticsofficial fk'off, scammer.
It’s the best turntable review I’ve ever seen. I’m 100% digital guy but now I want Rega turntable.
Thank, your comment is much appreciated.
exactly, same story here 😀
I was 100 percent digital cause I had a rega p3. Now I have the P10 and I listen almost exclusively to vinyl. It’s incredible
@@mikechivy strange how analogue can grab you.
When I was watching the first video, I thought for sure that you were going to pick the Linn. I assumed you were going to pick one of the 10 turntables featured in the video. Of the 10, the Linn probably made the most sense. The P3 was my 2nd choice, but I figured you probably wouldn't choose it because one of the higher end Rega's would be more appropriate for the application.
Fascinating. For the next stage I wonder if Roy is looking at Swatch´s Bio Ceramic material. I would imagine that the combination of ceramic and the castor oil bio plastic would be wonderful for turntables.
Thank you! Who knows what’s next? You should suggest it to him. Or maybe they’ll read these comments
as an engineer i really enjoyed and appreciated this talk, BTW, i have a MK4 AH sprite, more or less all the same mods as your Midget
Thanks Gary, much appreciated. The Sprigets, are such fun aren’t they!
Thank you for the very interesting details about the decision to go with the Rega P10. Definitely an excellent turntable. However, the idea of the low mass is not entirely conclusive to me, because it contradicts some findings in building physics. The experiment with the wine glass is impressive in any case. But how would it have turned out if the table top had not been made of heavy granite but of a very light material? A comparison would be very interesting.....
But it doesn't matter, I'm not pursuing the goal of the highest level of hearing perfection. For me it is important that I could get my son interested in vinyl. We celebrate listening to music together. This is priceless. We play our records on an early Thorens TD124/MKII with SME 3009. A turntable that's as old as I am. We're both fascinated by it, and that's wonderful.
That truly is wonderful. The vinyl resurgence is a truly cross generational happening. And I, for one, am happy about it.
Enjoyed that immensely, I'm enjoying the P6 at the moment. I am curious about the P10.
Glad you liked it.
I've got the rp8, fantastic turntable. I imagine the P10 goes so much further. Rega really offers great value, which I feel Linn doesn't anymore. as a plus setting up the Rega is a dream
I disagree with the value for money bit due to the exceptional quality, service and design of the Linn. I can’t imagine needing another turntable in my lifetime and it will be passed down to my children as an heirloom item. Trouble is I’ve 3 sons so 2 of them will have to make do with my Systemdek IIX 900 and my See Revolver/Ittok. They can burn my Pink Triangle as I would not want to burden any of them with that.
Thanks Matthias. At the end of the day, I think what really matters is if one can identify with the design approach and the cost. As long as the solution is good quality and can be handed down to the next generation and not thrown on the rubbish tip, that’s ok with me. + it has to sound good to!
you disagree with the value for money of the RP8? because you own a Linn? wait.... have you even heard an RP8? are you just trolling someones comments? poor form @@tonyjedioftheforest1364
As a former MGA owner, I agree! If you used a similar argument people who are fanatical about digital over analog and solid state over tubes. Thanks my friend!
Your very welcome
Fascinating. Many thanks. Pink Triangle also developed low mass turntables (albeit using suspended decks with mostly DC motors). I would like to compare my 25+ year old PT Export with a modern Rega P10.
Now that would be interesting.
@@PearlAcoustics It would be a fairly valid comparison too - because I have a Rega-derived tonearm (Tecnoarm A) and a Rega Apheta cartridge on my PT.
As an LP12 owner I loved your analogy to your MG and think you're probably spot on, even though I feel no need to upgrade. At some point you pay your money and make your choice and just get on down the road. At least I do--- but I'm not trying to demo speakers in a showroom. Nice video and if I'm ever in the market again I'll consider the P10.
Absolutely. I am sure if I had already owned an LP12, I would not have purchased the P10. It was only because in our listening room, we were starting from scratch, that I applied the logic I did. Enjoy your LP12! 😀
@@PearlAcoustics And I should add--I'd consider your speakers! But, like my LP12 I'm pretty happy with my DeVores! Still, I truly enjoy these vids. Happy Christmas and thanks!
@@DismasM thank you Joe. A very happy Christmas to you too!
I don’t think the MG car analogy works. A Porsche 911 has gone through many revisions and remains one of the greatest sport cars on earth when compared to anything else new. The LP12 is the same.
Hi Harley,
I have P3 and it work great so simple, Thanks for review, would like to upgrade some day only $$ holding me back lol, will be interested to hear your take on digital vs analog, have both but always find vinyl more enjoyable (not necessarily better). Take Care
Thank you very kind.
Can’t wait any longer for part 3😂
Thanks. Still building part 3. Release date mid January 2023. At the latest.
@@PearlAcoustics keep up the great work. Perhaps you could talk about your favorite albums one day . Top ten?
@@gdwlaw5549 now that would be very tough to pick just 10! I do have a series on ‘Great Recordings’ that I intend to build on in the coming years.
Just ordered my green vinyl copy of Gilu. Can’t wait to listen with my partner and a glass of champagne
@@gdwlaw5549 now that’s sounds like a fantastic threesome 😀👍
Your English, sound like best high end sistem, sir! Thank you.
😀🙏
The 10 is a fine table easy to set up wonderful to listen to with the right isolation equipment it can keep up tables that cost three times as much
True, the set up is way easier than many of the turntables from yesteryear, and from today too, I imagine.
I was able to audition both the P8 and P10 in my home, with my own equipment, and you’re right, there was no contest between the two. I normally prefer vintage looking equipment, but on this case the engineering, sound, and design won out. I’ve been a happy P10 owner ever since. Thank you for another thoughtful and informative video.
That’s so interesting John. So I am not the only one?
Can you describe the difference in sound between the p8 and p10? As I now have the p8 and wondered if it's worth upgrading
@@KM-wl1tp The P10 sounded more refined in the top end. I listen to a lot of Jazz, and there was more sparkle with the ride cymbal on the P10. The bass also sounded tighter with the P10, although the difference wasn’t as obvious as it was with the top end. The P10 tonearm is so incredibly light, that it made the P8 tonearm feel heavy by comparison. I also preferred the P10 power supply, specifically the separate 33rpm and 45rpm switches. I hope that helps.
@John LaMarca thankyou. I think I will get the P10 next year. But will keep the p8 for a while also, then sell later. Your comments on the sound difference have echoed other ppl I have spoken to.
@@KM-wl1tp oh my, that’s difficult. Alm I can say was there was more detail. And it seemed more musical but this comment sounds ridiculous, on reading it back. The difference was noticeable but selling an 8 for a 10 is a big step. You really would need to do a side by side comparison and be willing to spend a lot of money for what is, essentially a small but noticeable difference.
Thanks for, again, a very interesting and informative video. I have the P8 and love it. You did not mention what cartridge you have chosen. Is it the Apheta 3 perhaps? Also, maybe you will expand on the phonostage as well in part three? All the best! /Mikael
Harley, I am interested as well to know the cartridge you chose.
Hi Mikael, sorry for not being clearer. I chose the Apheta 3 and the Aria Mk 3. In Pt.3 I will go a bit broader, and more into the topic designated. But I will see what I can do to answer your question
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you! Looking forward to part three.
@@PearlAcoustics Thanks Harley.
Every Linn Sondek can be upgraded to the latest specifications. Dealers will also give a part exchange deal on your old Sondek for a more recent one.
I did that in 1990 for my 1980 deck but still had to wait a week for them to set up and fully test before I took it. Upgrading my first Sondek would have taken longer.
In 2022 I took some of the possible upgrades, but there was no limit to what I could have chosen to do.
For the money of the 2022 upgrade and replace the cartridge the 32 year old Sondek I could not have got a new Rega P10 but could have nearly paid for a p8 with cartridge.
At this level you are not going to be disappoint which ever route you end up taking.
Thanks for your interesting comment and fir your contribution to the topic.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned the five part UA-cam video series put out by Michael Fremer titled “Analog Planet Visits Rega Research” from 2017. It complements this video nicely.
Thanks!
The Rega P10 is a fabulous turntable !
I listened to it during several afternoons, in our portuguese importer, which is also the importer of fabulous, very High-End, ClearAudio turntables ...
I listened also the ClearAudio Innovation, which cost 2,5 times more than the P10, with the SAME cell, same records....
The Clearaudio Innovation, that looks, amazing, BEAUTIFUL, was very slightly, better, a very small margin ....
So, this is a great compliment to Rega P10 ....
Thanks for the background info. Very interesting
Hifi fanatic and avid consumer of hifi opinions since 1975 here.
Hi.
Varied vinyl journey?
but ended up lucky enough to own a Michell (G)Orbe, SME V with Dynavector XX2 Mk2,
Loved it but when I realised the hassle of screwing the clamp on made me lean towards Spotify I knew something was up.
Sold it all, and bought a P10 with Apheta 3.
Gamechanger.
P10 gives life to the music in the way seeing a pub band live does.
the fact that, the record you put on that makes you think that...
...is your 60's pressing of a Beethoven concerto.
Is an added wrinkle.
Never heard a Goldmund Studio or a Naiiad,
but I own a P10.
Close enough.
Yours,
(What Hifi reader since 1975)
Thanks for your comment
Sounds like a paid ad for Rega. My first visit to your channel, and this is my first impression. I could be wrong. I will subscribe and stay tuned and determine if this is par for the course or if this is just that special of a turntable. Just an FYI after your presentation I will likely purchase a P10. I have always been a large mass guy but this all makes sense. Again I will wait a while and see what I see. Either way thank you for the interesting video series and presentation. Cheers from Italy 🇮🇹
@PearlAcoustics Is it really this good? If it is I might have to pick one up.
Hi thank you for your kind comment. Please let me reassure you 100% that I do these videos totally out of interest for the topic. No one pays me and I do not even monetise them. Welcome to the channel
@@PearlAcoustics your passion and knowledge is amazing. I hope I didn’t offend but the way things are with reviews both in print and on UA-cam I was skeptical. I’m going to buy one for sure based on your recommendation. I currently have a few turntables that either cost more or are similar in price. I will buy it and report back. All things being said all of my TT’s are large and heavy or very large and heavy platter styles. Your explanation makes a lot of sense. If Rega explained the science as well as you have more people would make the switch. Thanks again for the input.
@@ThreeDogShow thank you! Absolutely no offence taken. I totally understand. I would be very interested to hear your feed back nice you have it.
Another great vid and I agree the Rega is a very good sub £4k turntable (without cartridge). However, I think you'll find other manufacturers such as SME, Clearaudio, Kuzma, Thorens and Avid to name just a few put as much effort in their designs and engineering philosophy as Rega does and they also produce fantastic turntables. Love the car.
Thank you. Very kind. You’re absolutely right. About other designers… I only chose Rega because their approach seemed to be both challenging and yet aligned with mine. I.E. simplicity, remove whatever does not make it work better. And try and make it at a realistic, sustainable price. Without getting greedy.
I was also thinking all the way through this talk that surely other manufacturers also put a similar amount of effort into finding solutions to these problems. However, maybe the genius of Rega's approach is seeking and finding efficient solutions that produce products that are more affordable?
@@mgsee absolutely. I suspect that too many manufacturers simply rely on past successes and do not invest in sonic improvements rather than production efficiency improvements and look and feel improvements
It would be great to see an A/B test of this against the original AR XA, which also followed many of these principles.
Indeed. I am working on it 😉
Great series! What intrigued me was your nominal room size of 25m2. Also no mention of room height. To what degree would these impact on any of your system choices or would professional setup compensate?
Thanks Glenn. Sorry I didn’t mention the height. I need to measure it again, I have forgotten it. But we took a standard height. +/- 3M
Room correction can do wonders, and firms like GIK, can really make a difference
Thanks for your usual professional, high quality and well considered presentation. There are two important sources of vibration that you did not mention, but perhaps you intended leaving them to your next episode on how the P10 performs.
The first is resonance introduced into the turntable system from the stylus tracking the groove. Unlike the other sources that you mentioned, stylus resonance cannot be eliminated, only prevented from influencing the signal. When well resolved, the level of clarity, tone and detail from vinyl is astounding and exceeds that of an average digital system. In my opinion, this is what sets turntables apart.
Secondly, feedback from the speakers into the turntable via the air and more specifically the physical elements of the room and equipment supporting structures, affects bass response. Turntables that resolve this aspect well will generate non-resonant, subtle and extended bass that one never thought was possible from vinyl.
Generally speaking, most turntables sound reasonable when playing pop, jazz and small classical works, but medium to large scale works with loads of midrange and treble energy from orchestra (particularly mass violins), choir, soloists etc are another matter. When your turntable is able to reproduce such works perfectly when played loud, without any audible distortion or colouration, then you know you have achieved audio nirvana. Such a turntable will also make previously damaged records sound more acceptable because previous distortion is replaced by distortion free tracking of the damaged groove walls, which, although a copy of the original distortion, is far less irritating. I sincerely hope that the P10 succeeds where most others have failed. Good resonance control will also enable the cartridge to successfully track at up to 40% lower VTF, resulting in longer stylus and groove life.
Thank you for your very interesting addition to the topic. Pt3 will be more generic, but I will take your comment in mind.
Hear you on stylus resonance,
P10 owner here and this can be helped along with a different mat.
I use a Collaro red mat, on the recommendation of my Rega dealer.
Even more effective is an Origin Live Gravity One damping puck.
Not a clamp (not the Rega way) but at 40odd grammes in weight just the right weight to damp stylus based vibrations.
It works really really well, even on a deck like tbe P10.
An explainer for me is that the tancast foam/ ceramic platter/ Rega engineering construction handles the vibration coming UP from the environment, the Origin One damps and eliminates any resonance coming DOWN from the stylus / LP surface interaction.
@@bobannon7799 thanks for your addition to the debate
@@bobannon7799 Yes Bob, mats do help in taming resonance and in somes cases can do an amazingly good job. A couple of years ago I experimented with two LP12s using various mats including the Funk Firm's Achromat while playing a Tracy Chapman record. With the Achromat, both turntables made the recording sound beautiful, but with any other mat, it sounded terrible, also on both turntables - lots of high frequency agitation and some distortion. The differences were startling. I concluded that upper frequency resonance superimposed itself on the primary signal causing, at best, the upper frequencies to be amplified and , at worst, high level distortion.
I think it is for this reason that many users have criticised or dislike the Achromat for dulling the sound. My feeling is that the Achromat just does a good job of removing spurious resonance, but it is possible that it might also influence the primary signal in some way. I did not envestigate this further and have not reached any definite conclusions. I regarded the Achromat as a Band Aid solution, preferring to resolve resonance issues in the turntable itself until the upper midrange and high frequencies were free of agitation, but without sounding truncated.
Some listeners obviously enjoy the upper frequency boost that resonance can provide, feeling a greater sense of resolution and detail. It is, however, false detail and contributes to what I regard as typical hi-fi sound that is impressive, but can never be regarded as having the smoothness combined with unrestrained detail inherent in live performances.
@@bobannon7799 My apologies, I did not see your last two paragraphs. I have no experience of the Origin Live puck and I am pleased it works well for you on the P10. I was surprised to discover that on my turntable, clamps, weights etc over the record made no audible difference other than helping with warped records. Your explainer is very plausible and makes sense. I have not heard a full explanation of exactly why or how the various sources of resonance affect turntable performance. My assumption is that tracking based resonance feeds both down into the turntable via the platter and bearing, up into the cartridge and arm and finally via the arm back into the turntable. I would expect levitating platters and completely isolated arms to solve resonance induced problems, but that does not seem to be the case. My assumption is that resonance needs to be dissipated rapidly, so each isolated component needs to find a good way of doing that. If all components are tightly locked together, there is probably a better chance of introducing dissipation mechanisms. The design choices seem to include resonance isolation, absorption or combinations thereof. Prevention of resonance based tracking does not seem to be possible. I am completely out of my depth here, so would appreciate direction from a knowledgeable engineer.
How about doing a commentary on the best stereo cartridges? Would be enlightening!
Indeed that would be very interesting. But, unfortunately, I have very little knowledge in that field. I would have to start from scratch and get hold of a very wide collection. I think the research alone would be considerable, especially as some cartridges are likely to perform better with certain pickup arms, than others.
I'm a Rega fan in any case, and didn't need convincing, but doing the kitchen experiment? Inspired and now doubly convinced! I have set my self the target of a P10 in 2023... it shall be mine.. oh yes... it shall be mine... They ought to give Roy a Knighthood, IMHO.
You won't be disappointed, bought mine eighteen months ago a serious bit of kit.
@@renyardfox8227 how much is one with power supply etc
@@mudachuka12345 Best shop around, they have gone up since l bought mine. Analogue Seduction have them at a shade under four grand that's without the cartridge.
@@renyardfox8227 yep, that seems to be the going rate for one in the UK. The PSU’s are matched at the factory so it comes in the box, you can’t get one without. But second hand /trade ins do come up on eBay from time to time.
Hi Paul, I am surprised they haven’t given Paul Gandy one already. Maybe he needs to score a few runs for England cricket team first? 😀
Analog has always been better then digital! 😂😂😂 Great video as usual.
Thanks! 👍
enjoyed all the Formula 1 references. keep wondering what team provided technical support.
They were individual people and some subcontractors. If you ask Rega directly I am sure they would supply the names.
Superb review of the P10. Many years ago 1990 Rega did a demonstration Evening at the Cornflake Shop and I was impressed by what I heard Rega Plannar 2 and 3 . When it came to questions , I asked him if he ever considered making an even better turntable and take on the LP12 , he seemed surprised by the question and said he was best just concentrating on what Rega did best . I pressed the question " I know you could do it. I think its a shame that people will " upgrade" from a Rega Plannar 3 to a Sondek ( Hifi magazine folklore) " . He laughed and said " Who knows one day " Now I'm not saying the P10 is down to me but he must have asked that same question many times .
Indeed… an Engineer always need a strong motivator. Maybe you gave it to him?! 😉
@@PearlAcoustics if that's true, I want a P10 for acknowledgement 🤣 I kid you not its a true story . At that time I just bought a Roksan Xerses which was a superb deck . If only that power supply stayed reliable. Anyway I'm happy with my Technics 1500c which actually reminds me of the Roksan .
Hence the birth of the P9.
@@nasdkhan254was it an original Roksan Xerses; wood engulfed electronics?🤷🏻♂️🙈🙈
I still the original Xerses which I still love, but no on my third different type of PSU.
YES! The Midget is just a perfect car. So much fun driving it.
😀👍
A timely post for me. I’ve been using a Technics turntable borrowed from a relative, but they want it back, even though they never use it. Not an issue, I see it as an opportunity to upgrade! The Technics seems to be an intuitive player to use, and has been trouble-free for me, so I think doing better will require some thought. Which model Rega would you suggest? What are the
mainstream standards of today?
Hi Peter. Thanks for your comments. I leave any suggestion to others. But if you decide to look at the Rega range, you’ll find one for every budget. They are very different from Technics, so my advice is get up close to one first and try it out and see how you feel.
I think I'd really enjoy a Rega P10 custom mounted with a SME tonearm, (perhaps a legacy 3009 or a Series M2-9R or 12R depending on what would fit best.) Having a removable headshell is a must for me. A JELCO arm (as I currently own / 10" version) would also be wonderful! I suppose using a non-Rega tonearm would be a sacrilege for Mr. Gandy! Great video as always Harley. Looking forward to part 3!
Buy another turntable. Your throwing the baby out with the water.
@@carmenandthedevil2804 Perhaps. Never liked Rega tonearms. Owned lower cost versions in the past.
Thank you for your appreciation. Personally, I am not sure an SME would work in the design. It has a very different approach. But it would look very cool!
@@oldschoolaudioenthusiastThr rb1000 , rb2000 and rb3000 are in a different class.
@@PearlAcousticsNah , the SME would totally go against the grain here , the geometry would be incorrect too.
Loved this video and you put across a very compelling argument. I myself was in the market for a turntable upgrade around the £5K area. I already had had a Pink Triangle and a Rega P3 in the past but preferred the Linn but being impatient if something was going to take more than a couple of months on the waiting list then I looked elsewhere. The technology was very appealing in the P10 but so was the technology and build quality in the Linn. To me it’s like comparing a Stradivarius to a modern carbon fibre violin or a classic 1960’s Strat to a soul less modern one.
I pondered for almost 2 years, my head saying Rega but my heart said Linn. If I had gone for the Rega I would have always thought should I have got the Linn. In fact that thought has been in my head for more than 40 years. Whenever I heard the LP12 I thought I should have bought one. I am a very similar age to you so for my landmark birthday I have ordered a 2022 Linn LP12, it’s coming tomorrow and I am so excited. Just hope the snow doesn’t get worse delaying the installation!
Well, after all we are only humans. And my experience always confirms the same thing. If logic is telling me one thing but my heart isn’t in it, then go with one’s heart. Because it’s passion that makes life worth living.
@@PearlAcoustics what a brilliant statement. Less than an hour to wait now so I am getting very excited!
My local Audio T have both the LP 12 and P10 in stock. Guess what I'll be doing in January!
@@mike_lowndes it’s got to be the Linn. I am sat here listening to Neil Diamonds Hot August Night for the 5th time today while typing this. As my son says Neil is actually in the room with us. Can’t believe I have waited more than 40 years to get one. All the hype had put me off in the past but by god I can now say the hype is spot on. It’s the most amazing thing I have ever bought.
@@mike_lowndes 😊👍
Great video Harley. The Rega sounds great but lacks the LP12 more nostalgic look.
I am not sure about the MG analogy though. If memory serves me right the only thing that is left of the original LP12 is the plinth overall design. It’s a shame the current top spec LP12 Klimax make the Rega P10 feel very affordable. 😊
Thank you. Indeed, the LP12, is extremely expensive for what it is. But that has always been the same with Linn and all their products. This does not make them bad investments. The contrary. I see it like Aston Martin cars. They are great fun, drive well are hand made and very expensive. But to drive, are simply not much better than many other much cheaper cars. Even worse, in some aspects. It’s really a matter of personal choice and deciding where to stop.
Thank you for your reply, I had to leave yesterday and hadn’t finished the video. But now I have and yes even though I listen on a large iPad, the lady sounded pristine. After building a pair of TL speakers I be getting a new turntable. What is your opinion of a Fluance RT85?
👍 sorry I am not that familiar with the RT85
I still have a technics SL-1200, 11 or 12 lb. Platter that will spin up to speed in 1/2 turn. That was a feature DJ’s for radio liked. Set the arm on the record an spin manually till it registers sound and backup 1/2 turn. When ready turn it on.
I liked the fact that besides the platter is heavy, the case and cover are heavy. The legs are isolated from the rest. You can have the house shaking, it won’t feedback into the case, platter, and arm. The direct drive motor has no hum or buzz, very quite. The center bearing is extremely quite, even in low passages in the music. Still use it.
Nice!
Great video about the rega P10. Have you tested the clear audio innovation basic? Can you point out which one, the CL or the rega deliver best sound quality?
Thank you. No I have no direct experience of the Clear Audio, sadly
Very nice video, what would have been nice to add for you experiment was too prove their approach which you didn’t really by just showing a glass of water on top of an heavy countertop. A way you could have done that is with a high density foam panel/board use for floor. You do the same exercise but now with the glass on a high density foam and show if there’s any difference. I’m also in engineering and usually the typical approach for something like this is to use the benefit of both, what I mean by that is you use an heavy base and you uncouple it using some engineered material (depend of the use case) to a lighter piece of machinery.
Very interesting. The point I was trying to understand was the claim weather mass absorbs vibrations, or not. But I get your point. Thanks.
Very interesting and informative.
Some of the other turntable viewpoints in the comments are as expected.
May I add, if anyone happens to look at the name of my channel or, at what I do to my Rega turntables, please read the "about" section of my channel before you leave a negative comment as I've heard it all before.
Happy listening to all.
Thank you
BTW, I own a modest Rega P1, considering upgrading to the P3, and dreaming of the P10. 😊
😉 only upgrade, if you really feel the need. The P3 is an excellent turntable
Great video, but no one talks about vibrations coming thru the air from speaker low frequency waves. The tone arm is extremely important it should be tuned to a few hertz
Thanks! Indeed good point. The results can vary enormously. I forgot to mention ruin that I had carried out some simple low frequency feedback tests, and both turntables performed very well indeed.
Here's something interesting. I tried your wine glass experiment on a lightweight Ikea Kallax unit (the top of which has a 'honeycomb' construction) and the water vibrated less than what you encountered.
👍😀
You are a gifted storyteller Harley. Thanks for this wonderful video. But I can’t wrap my head around with the Rega approach to speed stability. Intuitively, I would think that a higher-mass platter aids speed stability more than a lower-mass platter. Also, I would worry about the environmental stability of the foam core of the plinth. Could it degrade over time due to UV light exposure?
Thank you David. I think I did not discuss the platter fully. It’s mass and it’s rim that gives inertia. But also I checked with Rega re the stability of the foam core. Apparently it’s nothing to be concerned about, hope that helps?
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you Harley. I really love how Rega has bucked the high-mass trend all these years. Locally, here in Toronto, there was recently a high-mass table from a well-regarded manufacturer for sale in the used market that weighs 300 pounds. Rega’s “less is more” philosophy is a breath of fresh air.
Thanks for this. You certainly make a compelling case. One thing I am a bit concerned about is the longevity of the foam. This comes from being a SCUBA diver (neoprene suit foam) and a museum curator (foam in collections), the neither track record is that great. So I have to wonder, what is this TT looking (and sounding) in 10 or 20 years? One of the arguments for investing a bit more in a quality TT is the longevity, and there I have my doubts with a product using foam of any kind. OTOH, I could buy four Rega P10 for one VPI Avenger direct.
Re bearing precision on tone arm, wouldn't a unipivot solve that even at sub-micron level? Pro-ject and VPI have some unipivots in their range. A bit more fussy to set up, but generally considered to be more detailed, as far as I know.
Last but not least, In this price range, typically there are options for a second (or even third) tone arm. I don't think this would be possible with the P10.
Would also love some thoughts on the cartridge, but maybe that is in part 3.
Overall great video and excellent food for thought. Love your analysis of the LP12, not on my shortlist for the same reasons.
Dear Daniel, thank you for your appreciation and very interesting comment. Your concern with the foam core was exactly mine too. I spoke with Roy Gandy of Rega about this and he assured me that it was a stable product with no tendency for degrading in any way.
The uni-pivot is an interesting one. I am not qualified to answer but like all design approaches it has its challenges too. Let’s see what other answers we receive.
With regards to additional tone arms. I guess that’s indeed, not really an option. Rega even suggest mounting the P10 to the wall, to remove vibrations. I guess someone somewhere will have approached this challenge.
Thank you for the eloquent presentation. I see a Musical Fidelity M8sPre and a behemoth of an amp the M8s500s, a bridged 500Wpc beast. These would have been the last amps I would have expected to see based on your inclination towards small wattage amps. Any plans to present these in the context of your system?
Hi. Absolutely. This pair is absolutely fantastic. Not sure for when the video is scheduled but it will be in 2023!
@@PearlAcoustics Thanks. I use the M8sPre paired with the M6sPRX.
@@razisn I find it extremely good and excellent value for money
I have never heard a regs product that sounded any good at all.. I got a planar 3 for Christmas in 1994 and I returned it the next day