Rega P10 vs NAIA: From very good to great, or just the same? + Apheta 3 vs Aphelion 2
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
- I considered the Rega P10 with their Apheta 3 cartridge to be really very good, the question for me was, could the state of the arts NAIA sound any better? And if one is going to spend a few thousand Euros more for a cartridge upgrade, would it be worth it?
Chapters
00:00 - Intro
01:44 - Background to the NAIA & the P10
03:24 - Side by side comparison, the differences P10 vs NAIA
12:27 - Is the NAIA better than the P10?
13:31 - Disclaimer
14:24 - The differences (Apheta 3 versus Aphelion 2)
18:48 - The sound differences P10 vs NAIA
23:33 - In room comparison recordings - P10 vs NAIA
Links to related videos:
The Rega P10 - Why? - • Part 2: The Rega P10 -...
10 Iconic turntables - • Part 1: Iconic turntab...
The P10 vs NAIA comparison music:
"I've got you under my skin" by Cole Porter, sung by Clare Teal with the Syd Lawrence Orchestra.*
“Violin concerto in B minor", Vivaldi, performed by Interpreti Veneziani
"Scheherazade", Rimsky-Korsakov, National Symphony Orchestra, Anthony Inglis, ,
All are available as a *direct cut LP or high resolution download or CD from Chasing The Dragon Records: chasingthedragon.co.uk.
Thanks to Mike & Francoise Valentine, and the musicians and engineers, for letting us feature them.
If you would like to discover more about Pearl Acoustics, who we are, what we do and our Sibelius loudspeakers and amplifiers, please visit our website at: www.pearlacoustics.com
or email us with your questions: enquiries@pearlacoustics.com
Social media links:
/ pearlacoustics
/ pearl.acoustics
Videos like this enable my further slide into this audiophile rabbit hole. More and more $$$$$$
Sorry!!!
Hi Harley, thank you for the comparison. I have a Rega P10 and absolutely love it. The differences between the P10 and the NAIA seem marginal and so, like you, I'm sticking with the P10.
You’re very welcome. (Unfortunately, for all transparency, maybe you missed it… a couple of weeks after shooting the video, I did actually upgrade, I put it in the subtitles, but that’s only because we have a showroom to demonstrate it in.
Have you had a chance to listen to the Technics SL 1200 G, it's incredible for the money. I tried quite a few turntables, but nothing near its price could come close. In the future I may upgrade the arm to a Origin live.
@@r423sdex hi yes, I am very familiar with them. Indeed, very good turntables. This topic is a very personal experience.
It's no wind up to say that former watch maker Phil Freeman's obssessive attention to detail is what makes him tick.
😀👍 true and clever comment
What watch movement did he create?
@@jimmurphy3287 thanks for the question. I have no idea, I think he was quite junior as he joined Rega when he was still fairly young. If I find out, I’ll let you know.
Hang on a second! Not on my watch!
Great vid! The NAIA has more detail in the ambience, evident in reverb detail and tails.
Thanks!
Thanks for an interesting video. I have went back to vinyl after 30 years and it’s amazing. When I put together my system now I put in 70% on the tt (Rega P10) and the result is stunning. I have a Rega Brio and 50 years old Sonab OA12 speakers (refurbished). When people listen to my system they are blown away. I wish that Stig Carlsson, that design the speakers, could hear what they can deliver. Rock On, Mats
Thank you for your kind appreciation. It’s very welcome. 🙏 Now on to your system.. oh, I remember, experimenting with a very similar design to your Sonabs, I was always impressed with them but I wanted an extra octave in the bass, so we built our version twice the height and then hanging a concrete block, in the shape of a pyramid inverted above a central drive cone in the top. So pleased you had your Sonabs renovated, they are classic! Enjoy
Excellent reasoned comparison. You succumbed. Thank you.
I did succumb! Thanks for your appreciation and understanding 😉
It was very interesting to listen to that comparison. Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with the High-End community. I appreciate that! Best regards from Hamburg.
My pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it
Brilliant video as always Harley, thank you for the time and effort you have invested in making it. To me the Naia sounded slightly fuller triggers the age old audiophile conundrum of trying to assess the value of the marginal improvement against the increase in cost. Thank you again.
Thanks, you’re very kind. Indeed, if one has to measure improvement per unit of currency, not sure I would go beyond a P3 ;-)
Thanks Harley, and thanks for the comparison a/b test at the end. FASCINATING at times i thought the P10 was richer and the decay of notes more rounded, the Naia pulls a little more out in the detail. Thanks for this superb video.
My pleasure! You’re very welcome
Great video as always Harley! I hope all is well. Happy New Year!
Thank you! Best wishes to you too!
Thank you Harley for the video. I can imagine the work you put into it. These are both informative and fun for our hobby whether we end up buying the reviewed products or not.
From an engineering perspective, it s amazing that when the rest of the industry is adding weight to reduce vibration, Rega is achieving the same effect by reducing weight and adding rigidity. I listened to the sound clips on my iPad with Apple AirPod Pro earphones. NAIA sounded richer with deeper base and more natural. Of course, the difference was audible but not night and day. Already lookinf forward tonyour next video. 😁
Thanks very much for your generous and interesting comment. Have you seen my video on the P10? I ask because in it, I do a test to see how vibrations pass easier through increased mass, the results surprised me. Enjoy the music
Harley, you have a true gift for communication. Wonderful review!
Thank you. I appreciate that!
Thank you Harley, for, again, a very interesting video! I have four different turntables of which two are a Nottingham Interspace and the P8. Obviously very different (and played in different systems), but I have a particular love for the P8 and the technology behind it. The price for the Naia is a too big step for me but I am keen on getting the P10 in for a run against the P8 at home. Love your videos and look forward to the next!
Thanks, you’re very kind. Enjoy your P8. H
🤗 VERY HAPPY YOU WERE ABLE TO DO THIS ,HARLEY 😎👍💚💚💚
You’re very welcome. It was great that Rega lent it to me.
Very enjoyable review.
I really do appreciate your approach.
Funny to see the picture of the recording studio, with the korsakov mastering. It is with Sven Boenicke, a recording engineer and loudspeaker designer. I wonder what you think of his work.
Thank you,
Patiently waiting for next review.
Thanks for your kind appreciation. Next video is on a piece of music by Haydn
That was great once again. I was anticipating this comparison so much, as I already own the P10 and the Aphelion 2 cartridge. Surprisingly, a lot of things came through UA-cam. I got that fatter bass but also all sounds were more meaty. Better decay too with the Naia. Great sound! However, I don't think I'll be changing my turntable at the moment as the cost is quite high for me right now. But perhaps later at some point. But cheers for that!
Thanks for your kind comment. Indeed, changing is a very expensive exercise!
I own a P10/Apheta3 and totally agree with you but if I got money to spend I will pay for a Naia. Meanwhile, I'm thinking to get aluminum milled to look just like Naia' feet. That's only thing I can do for my P10 now.
@@chatrs1025 thanks for your comment. There’s no denying that the P10 is a wonderful turntable, especially either the Apheta3. I get your point about the milled feet but, keeping it original would ensure its authenticity in years to come? In any case, I believe it’s wise to keep the originals as an option for any future owner, should you ever upgrade.
@@chatrs1025Boing feet from The Funk Firm don't look as nice as the rega feet but should sound better.
One thing I observed, where there was a slight warp on the record, the Naia arm seemed more stable and controlled when riding the warp. I certainly noticed an improvement in the sound. Excellent video.
Thanks, for your very kind appreciation. good observation on the tracking
That's questionable since using same arm and cartridge
Higher tolerance arm bearings....
@@stevieg2755 indeed, the only difference is in the inner mechanisms in the arm.
Thanks for this analysis and discussion Harley.
Given my aging ears and personal financial situation, I will stick with my P6/exact which is end game for me; but thank you so much for a wonderful insight into the higher end.
You’re very welcome! Glad you enjoyed it. And I am pleased that you do not feel tempted to upgrade, that’s not my purpose at all. Enjoy the music!
I do not own a single record and obviously no turntable. And I do not plan to buy one - I can already see a new wormhole opening up eating away the funds that I don't have 😂
But still I watched the whole video and once again felt educated and entertained. Thanks for the marvellous presentation 👍🙏🙌
You’re very welcome! Glad you enjoyed it! 😉
Great minds think alike!
Thanks for the video - I thought even through UA-cam onto an iPhone you could easily hear and more importantly feel the differences. For me, I much preferred the music presentation/retrieval of the Naia to the P10, and felt I could live with it but not the P10.
You’re very welcome. Thanks for sharing your observations. Enjoy the music
I love my P3..Thanks for the content.
Glad you enjoy it! Thanks!
I didn’t think I would be able to hear the differences. I was surprised I could and have to wonder how different they sounded in studio. Up to your normal great videos.
Thanks! You’re always welcome to come and listen 😉
Hi Harley, I enjoyed your comparison a lot, thank you. Wich pressing of Exodus do you have?
Thanks, very kind. I am not actually sure… I think it is from Eastern Europe, I purchased it very recently
Love your channel.
Thanks! Very kind
I am an owner of P10....and if I had the budget, I would buy the Naia even before testing it...I am sure it should be in another league comparing to P10..I trust on Rega...my journey started with Planar 3, P7, P9, RP10 and now P10...always a big step forward.
Thanks for your contribution to the topic. Enjoy the music
Hi Harley, Another great and informative video. I have the P8 and do love it. Unfortunately, I had the Ania Pro on it when I purchased it but it never sounded right. I thought I had a system or speaker setup issue where vocals on some albums pulled to the left of center. The cantilever ended up being bent. As a result, I was informed by Rega it was not covered because I waited too long reporting the issue, about 6 weeks or so after being purchased. Lesson learned. My dealer was amazing and got me setup with a new cartridge at a great price. Wish Rega provided a better customer experience given everything was brand new. Cheers.
Hi, thanks for your very kind appreciation of my work. A bent cantilever is a tricky guarantee issue as they are so easily damaged, even without knowing it, and so hard to prove. Nowadays I photograph my cartridges on arrival, for that exact reason. I am sure someone at Rega will be reading these comments, luckily your retailer helped you out. Enjoy the music
That's a great idea to take photos. Thank you for the suggestion. It would be great if Rega reached out. As mentioned, I love my P8. I also own one of the Rega Amps 😊. For sure, it is a very hard issue to prove where/how it got bent. Definitely a learn for me. Thx again.
@@danriley3064 you’re welcome
I've found Rega customer service to be excellent. They offer a lifetime guarantee on their products. They would have rebuilt the Ania Pro for around £400 and returned it in less than a week. I have this cartridge on my P8 and it is outstandingly good.
I enjoyed this so much i've started to wear white shirts and blue jeans....
😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣😅
Great and interesting comparison. When I made the decision to upgrade from the older RP10 to the P10, I also bought the Aura phono stage in quick succession to replace my Aria. The difference it made in presenting what the record player was reading from the disc was staggering. Although it is a great phono stage at the price, the Aria seriously limits the information getting from the P10 to the speakers. If it limits the P10, the Aria will be a serious bottleneck for the sound quality the Naia is capable of. If you can hear clear differences between the 2 players using the Aria, then with the Aura it will be far, far greater. On the P10, the Aura dropped the noise floor into blackness, bass was much deeper, clearer and made up of many elements rather than just a low sound. There was more clarity and less grain in the mids and the treble was much crisper. Decay and attack all around was also much more natural. These are stunning record players based upon real engineering principles. I love the consistency in approach through the range and that you just get more of everything in sound quality with each step up from P1 to Naia.
Thanks very much for your kind words and interesting comment. I am auditioning the Aura next week
Very true .....
I’ve had the P10/Apheta 3 for 2 years now and I’m getting the upgrade bug.
I’ve heard the Aura is epic and I’ve always wondered if the Aura/P10/Apheta 3, could beat a Aria/P10/Aphelion 2. What would you say?
I want to make an upgrade but not sure what makes most sense
@@mikechivy that’s a very interesting question. Unfortunately, I am still waiting to hear an Aura…. So I am sadly not in a position to advise. Hopefully, someone else can.
Hello Harley, if there would not be your relationship, reviews and comparisons on Rega, perhaps I would never purchased my P10 with Aphelion 2. Some awaysome turntable. If I would have start over and again and wanted the only one turntable for rest of my life I would go for Naia. I am glad I do not have to do so. On top of everything else, Naia is probably as good as Lp 12 in terms of sound for a margin cost. Super video again !
Thanks very much for your kind remarks and for your contribution to the debate.
It's always a pleasure watching your videos .
Thank you for the introduction
Made me sad that at this point of my life, I can't afford those Formula ones/splendid turntables.
Maybe one day
Again, I appreciate your effort to give people insight into the world of audiophile 😮❤
You’re very welcome! Please don’t be sad, owning these things is a compensation for getting old! (Well it is gorgeous me anyway) 😉. At home I have a good old Lenco L75! That I am sure you can afford.
one doesn't;'t have to spend the world to get a nice turntable. Human hearing will create whatever listening experience you feel like experiencing. I was happy as a clam with an AR turntable from the eighties until the passage of time and very gradual upgrades made the turntable the weak link in my very budget constrained system.
@@richardelliott8352 absolutely
Amazing test! Gosh, it would make my day to do what you are doing with these two TT. If I may, I will ask a terrible question but one I feel needs to be asked. Are they at the correct speed? It is stunning to see the number of high end TT having slight speed deviation. I hope it is not the case with the P10 and the NAIA. Thanks for the great review once again, always appreciated. ps: very impressive demos
Thanks for your question and kind remarks. Yes, they are both exactly playing at the correct speed. One easy way of checking this is to start a digital stream or CD of a piece and an LP, then switch between. If they are still neck and neck after 10 minutes, or so you’re good. It’s a test, I always do when trying a new player. Of course you can always use a strobe disc too!
@@PearlAcoustics Great! Thanks for sharing the idea. I have found that spring suspension based turntables can sometimes induced slight speed variations due to some lateral movements. It it not always audible but on slow piano songs, I can pick it up. No springs with the Rega's so that's one variable less to mess with the correct speed! A+!
@@gaetancharbonneau3902 👍
Hello, Hope you are well. This is off turntable subject but I just have to tell you how much I like the Pass Labs XA-25. It’s an awesome sounding Class A amp…I have the Sugden A21se too…I love them both…I took the tube preamp I have off the Pass XA-25 and put the Pass XP-12 preamp on…a perfect marriage…Thanks a lot for your time making these videos…very interesting
Thanks, I am very well thank you… your comment is a bit off topic 😀 but it’s nice to hear from you and learn about your system. I will be making a video on pre-amplifiers soon! Enjoy the music
I got myself the Technics sl 1200 G, it's fantastic. Had a demo of Rega, but even though I think the company is fantastic, it's not even a competition.
Hello Harley,
Thank you very much for this video. If I'm honest - I had a similar experience when upgrading from Rega P3 to Rega Planar 8. There are differences - indeed - but they do not correspond with the higher price. I like my Planar 8, even though you can also be happy with the P3. All the best!🙂
You’re very welcome. Indeed, one should not upgrade for the sound improvement alone, it doesn’t make financial sense
ecart est minime entre une planar 3 et une planar 8 avec la meme cellule? merci
Sorry, that's a difficult answer - I can't reply it. La différence ne peut pas être sérieusement quantifiée.🙂 @@user-vj2ul6th3p
I have the Naia with the Hana umami red cart. Absolutely superb
Ok, with which phono stage, May I ask?
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your reviews on P10 and NAIA as I am considering to purchase either P10 or NAIA. I will go for the P10. By the way can you give me some idea about the different between Apheta 3 vs Aphelion 2? Are you using Aria MK3 for the turntable review?
Hi, thanks for your kind message. Yes I used the Aria 3 for both turntables. I do compare the Apheta 3 and Aphelion 2 in the video, maybe you missed it? Personally, I found nothing wrong with pairing the P10 with the Apheta 3. It’s a lot cheaper than the Aphelion 2! I hope that helps?
I think the reason is because it’s going deeper to the grooves my opinion . Great video
Thanks! 🙏
one brilliant design approach that Rega enjoys is simply adding a third screw to attach a cartridge, making correct installation , without complications or the need to buy special gauges for mounting , easy.
Indeed. Back in the old days, people would scoff for adding extra mass, but that’s really not the case here.
I have always found the recordings of Jamiroquai to be bright. I believe I have to buy another pair of headphones (now I have an old AKG K273Pro with an iFi Zen Dac V2 with the bass bust activated) because the sound was a bit lighter. I like the sound to be focused more on the lower registers, especially when it comes to classical orchestral music. Other than that, the sound was clean and good. I was once smitten by a Clearaudio MM cartridge. Maybe you could try one of their MC offerings that is around the price of Aphelion 2 and maybe even a little cheaper. This is a very instructive video! Thanks for your time!
Hi, thanks for your kind appreciation. Indeed… I must say the mixing on the JK album varies so much from track to track…. It’s strange because the musicianship is outstanding. Good luck with the headphones. In the home studio and got mixing, I have been using Sennheiser HD600’s for the last decade or so. Not exciting, just accurate.
Would love to get the Naia but only if at dealer cost !!! :D
Thank you Harley, again a great job.
As engineer, music lover and audiophile I enjoy products like Naia and all the technical details involved. And I would love to have one.
I perceive a sutil difference between both turntables, but I remain firm in what I’ve believed for a long time. The improvements in sound quality from a turntable cost thousands and thousands of euros, whereas with a good digital setup, you achieve the same results for much less and more straightforwardly.
I am aware that this is a matter of personal preference, and that is not up for debate. It’s just that my decision revolves around upgrading speakers, amplifier, DAC, etc., but starting from a solid digital source. Honestly, I believe this approach yields better returns on my investment.
Thanks Vincente. Very kind. I am glad you enjoy my work. I fully agree with you, starting from a good digital basis, makes the most sense, technically and financially. However, us humans are not logical, or rational and our hobbies take us down rabbit holes that can give enormous amounts of pleasure, but also some misery too at times! I work with digital all the time, and it’s the absolute best. But I still don’t understand why, sometimes I like to play LP’s. I think it’s more than nostalgia. It also makes sure I stand up and get away from my desk every 20 minutes! 😉
@@PearlAcoustics Yes I also love to play LP's, and also cassettes and Minidisc or simply to play a CD when I have all my ones in files or I can use stream services. I think we simply enjoy doing it. But I decided no spend more money in them, enjoying what I already have and improving in other kind of gear.
@@Unicorn-ST sounds like a very sensible approach
Love my P10 with the Aphelion cartridge, considering the price difference it's case of diminishing returns.
Indeed!
In my opinion, doing the test, would have been better if you'd have used the exact same cartridge on both turntables. As the difference could have been down to batch variations.
Indeed, you’re absolutely right but unfortunately that was rather impractical. It’s only for fun really
Yea, and I think the P10 had the better batch variation and the Naia still ate it's lunch.
@@tl9756 😀
I don't go with all this light weight stuff, I prefer a good solid deck like SME, last forever. Nice review though as always.
Thanks for your kind appreciation. Thanks too for sharing your opinions on this topic. Enjoy the music.
Wish i could hear them in your dem room, i love records, dont know why you didnt choose gaucho for the test because its the best sounding record i have ever heard. In 40 years. Hats off to roy gandi, i am the proud owner of the p1, and thats also increadble to.
Thanks for your comment and suggestion, re Gaucho. Enjoy your P1!
Excellent video ! Told me exactly what I want to know for my ´keep forever´ purchase, in the future.
Glad it was helpful! 🙏
I always appreciate a carefully thought out buying decision. I struggled mightily with the buying decision of my own, much less costly, end of the road turntable , a Michell gyro SE, which follows a lot of the Rega design principles , except the Michell is suspended . Michell even uses a hot rodded version of the Rega arm, which kind of makes me want to take advantage of the rega cartridge mounting system.
@@richardelliott8352 thank you, very kind
I’ve got a P8 and I will change to the P10 with same cartridge- Dynavector.
I have a P10 with an Apheta 3 with a PS audio phono stage love it. Can’t see upgrading with the nominal improvements.
Thanks for your comment. Enjoy your system
Enjoying my P10/apheta 3 with Longdog audio MCJ3 hybrid phonostage, Naia to expensive for me, but now adding the aphelion cartridge seems the better option for me.
Indeed, don’t let me lead you astray! Enjoy the music.
Hi Harley, great video and a very interesting comparison. At this point you’re stepping into Linn territory. I know you considered a used Linn versus the new P10 and I know the reasons you opted for the Rega. However, with Naia budget I’m pretty sure I could spec a Linn for you that would give the Rega a serious fright.
Hi Mark, thanks for the kind comment. I bet you could! Once we are up at the very high end, I would expect no different. There are many ways to boil an egg ‘so as to speak’ - maybe one day we can put them side by side? 😀
Stepping into Linn territory? ...The Linn LP12 is a colored mess compared to both P10 & Naia. ...I've owned LP12's for 35 years, and it took my P10 to help me realize the LP12 inherent colorations coloring all records played on them that I can now no longer unhear. The beauty of the P10 and Naia is that it lets the sound & air of the studio/artists intentions come thru adding very little to no colorations of it's own upon the performance thus making all records sound unique and fresh where as the LP12 makes all recordings sound somewhat the same and that gets to be draining and boring over time..
@@tl9756 I have to say that today, I listened to The Dark Side of the Moon on the NAIA today and it was the best I have ever heard it. I was so impressed. Usually, I give up half way through because the sound is too bad (too much distortion) but it sounded way better than the version is was streaming from at the same time
@@PearlAcoustics And with the P10 all of a sudden all Jazz records make sense too, I can't stop buying more early Blue Note Jazz records now, getting very expensive LOL, can't wait to hear a Naia in my system one day.
@@tl9756 👍
High precision and tight tolerances are only part of the equation. As you can see in the video, the cartridge is moving left, right, up, and down while playing the record. If the turntable isn't designed to mitigate an off-center or warped record, all the precision in its construction would be wasted.
Indeed. I am lead to believe that the very tight tolerances in the bearings allow the stylus to track warped records and dust very well because no energy is lost or allowed to echo due to resonance in The arm. This is an over simplified reply. Sorry.
Given its UA-cam and my very humble surround system, the Naia presented a broader, deeper, heightened sound. I believe we, for now have reached Audio Nirvana.
😀👍
I have P10 with Aphelion 2 and Aura phono stage absolutely fantastic.
👍
Might as well go all the way Harley and get the Aura phonostage to go with the NAIA, I’m from Australia and hope to visit your showroom oneday
Hi, indeed, maybe I should! But they are only made to order, and investing 6000EUR on a phono stage requires some serious thought and at least a loaner demo in my listening room for a few days. I am arranging with Rega Benelux to get my hands on one… tense moments 😉
Good evening Harvey ...........yes we're listening on YT with it's limitations !
BUT ..........even under these conditions the difference is NOT subtle !
The NAIA .........sound more complete and tonaly better ,closer to the real experience ...
The P10 sounds great as long as you do not compare .
Both are out of my budget .....but are revealing what analog and vinyl has to teach to processing music by hacking it into pieces and give it a digital value before decoding it back
towhat is naturaly analog into our real world ....and that reminder is a GOOD thing ....to (re ) discover by a generation that grew up with only digital music as a .....reference to the brain....
Thank you for the upload
Kind regards
I met ROY in the early nineties and he left an unforgetabale memory being realy concerned by his philosofy of reproducing music............resulting also in buying a REGA tone arm...hahaha.
Thanks Frank, much appreciated!
I found the differences between P8 & P10 to be subtle in most cases, but non-trivial. That step-up seemed very worth it if you have the system to support it. Personally, I would save the cash from a NAIA via buying a P10 + a solid phono stage + SUT + Cart.
Thanks for your contribution to the discussion
@@PearlAcousticsThank you for not falling into the trap "measurebator" discussion and creating great content. :)
@@DBravo29er thank you, that’s very kind!
Hello I own a p6 I wonder which of the p8 or p10 is more worth to step up to first?
@@Jujuboy0 I think the P10 is the right call for you.
The P10 (or even the excellent P8) is good enough for 99.99% of vinyl enthusiasts.
Indeed, it is.
How far is the p10 from the 8. I’m wondering if I should go for the 8 first or jumps straight to the 10
Hi Harley, I noticed the script on your video. You DID relent and buy the NAIA a week later. Obviously, some of your viewers didn't read this. I just knew you would. I also told Ajay he should change your cartridge to the Alphelion 2. I wonder if he has now ..... I heard this turntable against my P10 (Alphelion) and could hear subtle, but very pleasing differences in just 2 minutes; through a valve integrated amp and my Sibelius SG's. Now that I have played the NAIA extensively for a couple of months now, I can tell you it is worth the money. Every album I play has more detail, more bass and a better soundstage. Rega never cease to amaze with what they can do in retrieving music from a vinyl groove !! There is one important difference in my system though. i don't use the Rega phono stage. My Naim Superline/SuperCap (DR) phono stage allows much more of what the NAIA can do. Similar price to the Aura, but much better. Again, thanks for a really great video.
Thanks very much Garry! You’re very kind. I am intrigued about your comment on phono-stage. Are you familiar with the Rega Aura, meaning, have ever done a side by side comparison? And what is better, if you don’t mind me asking?
Hi Harley, It's difficult trying to make quantitative judgements over what is a highly subjective activity isn't it. And to explain your perceived judgements in a way that gets across your experience must be very challenging indeed. Anyway... I very much enjoyed your review and your findings. Listening through my Macbook speakers it's impossible to tell if the Bass is more extended or the space between the instruments is better portrayed etc. But I did find it possible to hear a difference in all cases and whether one platform was more enjoyable ( to me ) than the other. The Clare Teal track definitely sounded "swingier" and more relaxed on the Naia . The Vivaldi sounded more dynamic and rhythmic on the Naia. The sheer Drama and scale of the Rimsky-K was so much more pronounced on the Naia over the P10. In all cases the Naia seemed to portray as more free and open.... I suppose that's all to be expected given the enhanced engineering the Naia has had applied to it over the P10. What is interesting is that over your playback / recording / internet / my Macbook speakers chain that differences can be heard. I suppose my conclusion is that if money were no object then a Naia would be a no-brainer, but given that money is an object, then are the differences big enough to warrant that expense. What did you decide ultimately ? Thanks again for the considered and enjoyable comparison.
Hi thanks for you kind appreciation and informative comment. In the end, I went for an upgrade to the NAIA, it was for our listening room, so we like to have the best in it, if we possibly can
Even if I had that kind of money to spend my inner being would never let me spend that kind of money on "foam". My Nottingham Analogue table uses the opposite design philosophy but it sounded great with the Rega arm it originally came with. I just bought a modded Rega arm (to go with the Space arm) as my table is capable of two.
Thanks for contributing to the topic
Should have connected P10 and Ania with Aura instead of Aria, could hear more difference. I've P10/Apheta3/Aura combo. After hear your clip, I would buy Naia if I get enough $$$.
Hi we used the Aria MK3, but I am looking at trying the Aura…
I agree that the Aria should not have been used. Most likely the differences in both turntables will be larger when a phonostage was used in the same league. Or even use something else then a Rega cart.
@@guus007 thanks for your comment, I am following up with an Aura phonostage… interested to hear the difference. Which is your favourite cartridge for this turntable, May I ask?
I can’t believe you use the Rega Aria phonostage for those two turntables let alone the NAIA turntable. What a letdown.
Hi, that’s very interesting. I was not advised otherwise… however, I am now looking into trying them with the Aura. Thanks for your comment
Thanks for the comparison. Yes I heard an improvement with the Naia!
You’re very welcome!
What amplification do you use?
Hi thanks for your question. On this comparison I used a Sugden DAP800!preamplifier and a Sugden SPA4 power amplifier. Hoping that helps?
Depending on weather conditions, my P10's mat clings to records after playing two or three in a row. So while I love my P10, which I consider to be a bargain, I don't like its felt mat. I'm seriously considering upgrading to a Technics SL1000R.
Hi, I discovered that the mat of the NAIA does not do this, it looks the same but it is made of a different material. My recommendation is to change mats.
The NAIA has better Microdynamics and dynamic shading. The difference is not subtle in my opinion. In comparison the P10 setup is a bit blur. Glad you upgraded. I would have done the same.
Thanks for your sharing your observations
I had listen to this video with IPhone 12max pro and AirPods Pro: the naia sounds fuller/richer and with a better black background. Is it the money worth? I don’t know - try it and get the one you have the money for
Thanks for your comment and suggestion
I don’t trust what I’m hearing because of the source but I hear differences in pace and balance…were both cartridges broken in equally?
Hi, I have no idea if the cartridges had the same break in, but I am guessing they did because they both came from Rega.
One interesting point: Rega usually try to reduce mass, but on this occasion have gone with a heavier platter. I guess that's to give more bass?
Indeed, but it’s only slightly heavier. I think it’s because they fattened up the edges to increase the gyroscopic effect, I might be wrong here.
@@PearlAcoustics Yes, that makes perfect sense. I think it looks better with a thicker platter also.
@@Phil_f8andbethere agreed 👍
I’m looking at the NAIA to replace my Michelle Orbe SE with SME 4 arm, but keep my Ortafon high end cart.
MC Winfield
Well, the MC Winfield does seem like a very sophisticated cartridge. It has a boron cantilever, like the Aphelion 2. I am sure it would a great combination. And wouldn’t you hang on to it, especially if you like it. Enjoy the music!
There could be other issues making the cartridge sound thinner one thing about thin felt mats or even thick felt they can cause slippage in the lower register, what in turn kills the bass, test it out! By placing your little finger on the record do you feel it slipping? put some 2 in - 1 in double-sided tape 4 pieces on the platter first, from the centre at 6 1/2 in stick 2 lengthway snd stick two parallel opposite to the spindle at 10 1/2 in from the centre diamond shaped. and then stick the mat to that see how it sounds then. The best cartridge is the van den Hul Crimson, one of the best cartridge or the best cartridges you can get about the same price four grand. But you have to be very careful with it its fragile there's no body to it is completely open and that's what you want from a cartridge.
Power supply makes a difference have you tried the power supply from the new one on the p10, always run a motor power supply through a conditioner installation Transformer with capacitor. I wonder trying a leather and suede mat? Your felt mat look rather thin about 3mm, yes you can adjust the height of the arm even when they say you can't, but if you're not comfortable then stick to the size that supplied what is 3 mm looks like. It might be worth sticking some newspaper underneath the mat one or two sheets that small rise in the height can have a dramatic effect you'll find tuning it, but as I have indicated with such a thin felt mat grip might be an issue. Find a thin leather suede it can be very warming and give you better bass without dramatically affecting the treble make sure the suede is up. I made my own I know you can buy them but not sure what hide it is I would stick with goat if you can get it
Thank you for all your ideas and suggestions. And for contributing to the topic
I think the differences would have been more obvious with a higher end phono preamp. The Aria is lovely but well below the level of even the P10 let alone the Naia. The Rega Aura would have been much more appropriate. Having said that, the difference was immediately obvious to me in my system even listening here on UA-cam which is a huge downgrade from what would be experienced live. What I heard immediately was that the P10 was harder and harsher compared to the smoother more refined Naia.
Indeed, an Aura would have been better but they are not easy to get hold of, only made to special order - however, with the Aria it was still impressive. I am trying to get my hands on an Aura… 😉
Good Evening, are you selling your P10 as in the market to purchase a wonderful Riga P10 after your amazing reviews
Yes indeed I am…. 😉 you can reach out to me, via the Pearl Acoustics website, I’ll ask a colleague to look out for it. Best wishes
I (along with my audio friend) did some true blind AB testing between powercord cables, speaker cables and interconnects cdp-amp (there was more sessions) and whenever listening with open eyes seemingly brought out a slight difference, the blind AB testing showed just pure guessing and no accuracy in distinguishing power and speaker cables. Accurate blind distinguishing was only with interconnects.
So my guess is, that with blind AB test there would not be, if any difference in the % accuracy to which turntable you are listening to (5/10 is poore result - it should be at least 8/10 or of course 10/10 then you can say, yes this is something different).
But it could be that prolonged listening to some gear can bring a different case.
Kind regards, Maj
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic
@@PearlAcoustics I guess, I would not write this, if you would not published, that you bought the Naia after filming. Regarding all said in video, I think you did not do this on a basic of pure sound reasons. And thank you for sharing that.
@@majtextwriter1794 you’re welcome
On a point of pedantry, nothing can be made ''more perfect''. Apart from that jolly interesting.
Whoops! You’re absolutely right, apologies!
I’m not a fan of Rega and I do wonder how durable that foam will prove to be. I’ll stick with my SME, proper British quality engineering. Nevertheless, I did enjoy your video as I always do, thank you so much for taking the time to make it.
Thanks very much for your kind words. With regards the foam, I am assured it will stand the test of time… but that’s yet to be proven. Just for your information - all Rega products are fully British, being manufactured and assembled in the UK.
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you, I did know that and I even had a Planar 3 way back in the early eighties!
i maybe went to buy a turntable and in the heat of the moment i bought the new P10 with it´s suply source and put it a HANA Umami red ,only because i have access to them by a reduced price and the substitution is also cheaper , the alpheta 3 was so expensive and other options ,maybe better but price wise i went for the cheapest i could get and for the first time i enjoyed a new wave turntable as my SL-1000MKII from 79 still is my favorite amongst others as the TD2001 from thorens bought in the 90´s with ortofon old quality. this was the last i had bought ,at the time i even consider buying a all thorens system but i had already a lot of good components ,so i could avoid spent a lot of money having already a system for it
Thanks for your comment, and are you enjoying your new P10?
@@PearlAcoustics yes , it sounds amazing , i thought the optional cartridges were better than the hana but after looking at all specifications , the hana either than making it sound better, i think its more dynamic and detailed , also compared to what i had it conected in the store , as it reads perfect all records i tried , i guess i made a good purchase , i think i'll never buy other , the last i bought was a thorens TD2001 in mid 90's with old ortofon cartridge then i thought it would be my last one, let's see
@@RUfromthe40s thanks for your reply. It adds so much value to the debate.
While Rega is applauded for striving for turntable excellence, my biggest concern is your speakers are subjecting the turntable to micro vibrations & the turntable is mounted on what amounts to a large sounding board. Have you considered placing the turntable in an adjacent room behind a wall that acts as a sonic barrier? I seem to remember audiophiles advocating this approach in the 60s & 70s, so it's not a new or my idea. Is your listening room treated to be the sonically best it can be?
Hi, thanks very much for your comment. You raise an interesting point here. Indeed, from the early 80’s I always had my turntables standing on steel brackets mounted directly to a brick wall. In those days, if one turned up the volume, with the stylus on a non moving turntable, feedback would quickly ensue.
Bearing in mind our listening room is also a demo room, we found it more practical to demonstrate it this way. I did a test (as mentioned above) and it was absolutely fine, no feedback as such. But you are right it would be better in another room.
Yes, the room has been fully treated by GIK.
I'm just repeating Rega philosophy. Feedback is the extreme case, 100% distortion. Hopefully, you'll investigate further to ensure you're getting full value from this very expensive turntable & cartridge, cheers!
@@trevorbartram5473 👍
Interesting.. subtle differences, Naia sounds a tiny bit more dynamic with a very slightly tonally more dense sound overall.
Thanks for sharing your observations
I have the P10 which is amazing, but I replaced the felt mat with a Japanese paper mat which is so much better and has the same thickness as the Regal felt mat. The felt mat is really annoying almost always sticking to the vinyl.
Sound I would say is not perceptibly different between paper and felt
Very interesting, I am curious to know a bit more. Paper sounds scratchy! 😉
I bought my P10 today and gave my P8 for return; I kept the MC stylus - Dynavector.
Enjoy!
What do you think of the sound of the P10 compared to the P8 ?
Olá Portugal !
@@fanclub670 the difference is subtle… both do their job well
@@fanclub670 the difference is subtle… both do their job well
The part that you mistakenly called the turntable is actually the platter, the circular part below that is called the sub platter. Just wanted to clear that up.
Indeed, when presenting without a script, sometimes the right words just don’t come. Being bi-lingual does not help either, especially for me!
The fact that you did eventually upgrade, pretty much says it all.
As usual another great and informative video Harley. Thank you for it. I just wish i could afford a Riga turntable. My wife would shoot me. LOL!
Thanks, you’re so kind! Oh how we accommodate the ones we love! 😉 I am sure the system have is just fine! Enjoy.
The differences seem to be really minimal ...
That LP is a bit warped ....
Perhaps you should try a better phono stage "still not" silly price .... ?
SUGGESTION
PrimaLuna EVO 100 Phono Preamp
Your accent is beautiful, very british ..... !
👍 thanks for your suggestion. Indeed, at this level the differences become smaller and smaller. But to be fair an in room recording does not capture the subtleties (especially once compressed for video.
Indeed, I am British and Belgian, having lived in Belgium for nearly 30 years. Thanks for your kind appreciation
Because you bought the Naia and, I guess, together with the Aphelion 2, please allow me to suggest that you upgrade the phono preamplifier at least for the price of the Aphelion 2, which is now, probably, 4000 euros. The Rega Aria is a high-performance device, but it costs a little over 1000 euros and no matter how well was made, at this price, many compromises have been made in its design.
True. But the big question is, where should I look to now? Aura?
@@PearlAcoustics Yes, Aura. It's what you need for MC. It uses the split RIAA architecture which reduces background noise a lot, but looking at some pictures and seeing what it has inside, it can still be improved with some better capacitors, both in the power supply and the input and output capacitors.
@@PearlAcoustics Auricap XO are the best capacitors that I have used in my designs as input and output capacitors and Elna Silmic in the power supply. The rectifier stage must be discrete and in parallel with every diod in the rectifier stage you can put a ceramic capacitor of 100 nanofarad value. My phono stage, made by me, gives me a 3D soundstage very solid with a black background.
@@AdiMaco thanks
@@AdiMaco interesting… 👍
Thanks Harley, interesting comparison and background to the development of the Naia. Listening through Sennheiser Momentum headphones straight out of an iMac the Naia was clearly superior imho.
Thanks - glad you appreciated it! Best wishes, H
I hear a few people call it the Aph-e-lon on UA-cam. Is it not Aph-e-lee-on as there's an 'i' before the 'o'?
Absolutely there is. And at times I do mis-pronounce it, that’s why I put an apology and correction in my subtitles.
Oh, I missed that 🤐@@PearlAcoustics
@@dirtharris no worries 😉
I'm sure they're both excellent, but for me my nearly 40 year old Planar 2 will have to press on, all it's had is one new belt in that time, can't complain about that.
Absolutely not! And have you ever changed the oil in the main bearing?
@@PearlAcoustics Nope, I've not done anything but change the belt when it got old and started slipping, I've had an AT3200 high output moving coil cartridge on it for most of it's life which I transferred from my previous turntable because I liked it so much. Mine is one of the first ones to come with the RB250 arm which many at the time regarded as big improvement, the earlier Planar 2 had an S shaped Acos arm if you remember? That feeds into an APT Holman preamplifier, through two pairs of push-pull EL34 valves into a pair of Boston floor standing 'speakers, just budget stuff, in fact thinking about it a P10 would be too good for me, but I've always been satisfied with the sound and that's what it's all about.
@@rhodaborrocks1654 absolutely, appreciating what you have is so important. In my home, I have had the same set up for years, plenty good enough for me.
one of them should have a lint brush before the stylus the way the 1970s Magnavox sterio used to
I have that on my Shure M97ex
A good cartridge will pick up that noise, I’d not recommend myself
Naia seems to have a more natural sound than P10 ??...
Thanks for the video !! 👍👍
Best regards from 🇫🇷
You’re very welcome! Thank you for watching and commenting
With all due respect the balance shaft and weight on the Naia is tungsten, not titanium.
Indeed, my mistake, thanks for the correction. How stupid of me.
Not at all, an easy mistake to make.
Heard the Naia a couple of weeks ago at my local retailer. A really nice shootout between P8 w. Apheta2, P10 w. Aphelion2 and the Naia w. Aphelion2 (of course). I bought the P10/Apheta2 a year ago and didn’t think that my dear Rega could be outperformed to this extent! Since I was thinking of eventually in the future upgrading to the Aphelion2 on the P10, it was a perfect comparison since I didn’t like the P10 w. the Aphelion!!! I’m very interested in your comparison Apheta vs. Aphelion on the P10 (if you have made one)! In my ears it sounded very thin and wound up being the last of the three, clearly beaten also by the P8, so now the Aphelion2-upgrade is out of the question! Strange isn’t it?
I think that the P10/Apheta2 really is a wonderful player for a reasonable amount of money, but frankly: The Naia is a bargain for those who got the cash!!
Thanks for a great review and funny that you were convinced to NOT buy the NAIA, and then… All the best/Johnny in Sweden
Thanks for your kind words and contribution to the topic.
Clare Teal: the difference is very subtle, impossible to pass a blind test
👉Vivaldi: the difference is clear, with NAIA has better sound, much better
👉Rimsky-Korsakov: the same than before, much better
I suspect that Clare Teal record has low DR (dynamic range), hence the difficulty.
And this with AAC 128 (1080p). With AAC 192 (4K) the difference would be more noticeable since recordings with a large dynamic range, such as orchestral masses, appreciate it.
Thanks for sharing your observations
You're certainly capable of transferring your phono audio through an ADC and recording the sound on a computer. And even if you wish to argue that this changes the sound somewhat, it's nothing compared to what an in-room recording does. So whatever your enthusiasms, the proof is in the pudding. And there's no pudding here!
Thanks for your comment
Harley, I’m confused. I thought the more mass there was, the better the turntable.
Indeed, that’s what many people think. I recommend you watching my first video in the P10… I make up an experiment that proves Roy Gandy’s theory that mass makes things worse. There’s a link to the video in the description
@@PearlAcousticsyeah I remember that video. It threw away all I thought I understood about mass in turntable design 😭😆
Also listen to Peter Qvortrup of Audio Note U.K. It take longer for more massive platters to release the stored resonance energy, so it is better to have as light a platter as practicable.
diminishing return
Indeed… just at the base of the hockey stick!
I think I'll stick with my 1986 Planar 3 with AT 95E cartridge. Prefer CD to be honest though.
👍
I think it's called platter, tonearm and plinth. Cartridge and stylus.
😀! Indeed, where are the correct words, when you need them? I have been working with turntables since I was three…
I'm curious, when you listen to a classical recording can you tell how and where it was mic'd
Hi, thanks for your question. Sometimes yes, but acoustics and post production techniques can play tricks on you. The only thing is, if an acoustic instrument is recorded from quite a distance, it’s very hard to make it sound close up. The other way around is easier! 😉
Why are crackles and pops less noticeable with better cartridges, tonearms and decks?
The size of a typical dust mote found in a record groove is 3-9μm. The average speed of the record past the stylus is about 600,000μm/s. Taking the size of the stylus into account a dust mote will have come and gone in about 1/20,000th of a second. This will result in an impulse equivalent to a half waveform at 10khz. This is way to short to be heard directly.
The impact of the stylus with the dust mote puts a lot of energy into the system like a little hammer blow. This energy makes the cartridge, arm, deck ring and resonate. It is this ringing that you actually hear.
A better cartridge etc will control resonance better and ring less making the pops less audible.
A similar thing happens due to the normal modulation of the groove but to a lesser extent. A deck with more suppressed surface noise will tend to sound better.
Excellent, thanks for sharing! I was hoping that someone would know. 👍
So, upgrading makes no sense at all?
Right - let's do it!
Great 😉
😂
unless you find satisfaction in endlessly buying equipment, there will come a time where the system before you is satisfying and churning equipment makes no sense. .
@@richardelliott8352 indeed. It’s one thing having a professional listening room, open to the public, and what one has at home. I wouldn’t want constant changing in my listening room at home.
GAS “Gear Acquisition Syndrome”