Torbjorn: A Failed Engineer
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- An Engineer who never earned his title, Torbjorn must contend with the characters in his own game, Overwatch, and the peers who share his chosen occupation... does he succeed? We will soon see...
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What do you think of Torbjorn? Comment below!
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Discount engineer
*Mostly Rip Off Team Fortress 2 Dell Engineer.*
@@redbee8232 *Mostly Rip Off Team Fortress 2 Dell Engineer.*
Why didn’t you talk about Torbjorn’s ability to buff his speed, health and fire speed?
Or his Ultimate ability that has some of the best area denial in the game?
You were very surface level with his kit.
Also, his primary is amazing at damage.
His headshot damage is insane, and his secondary fire will chew through most characters health, especially with his overload buff active.
Something too is that torb is said to have made and bulit all this crazy shit but its never actually used in game except his turret and an objective to cap/push while engi has also bult alot of crazyshit and they made those into the unlocks and hats you can get in game
Him saying that the TF2 engineer has no name hurt me deep. Sure it's never mentioned in the game and rarely ever used by the community, but he's still Dell Conagher. Also he one-ups Torbjorn in lore too, being the one with the most canonically
Hell yea, we stan our man Dell.
YEAH DELL
More people should check out TF2 comic tbh. It's great.
Dell Yeah!
His grandpa literally created a life-extending machine, which he managed to replicate and upgrade up to the TF2 present, how the F is he a no name?!
I would like to point out that TF2’s engineer does indeed have a name, Dell Conagher, it’s just never used in-game at all.
Are any of the merc names ever used?
@@DyonisX
Technically, yeah. Kind of.
Demoman's real name (Tavish Finnegan DeGroot) is referenced in both a Demoman Crown Cosmetic named "Prince Tavish's Crown" and a Control Point Medieval Map called "DeGroot Keep".
@@spooky2382 also a bottle reskin, the scottish handshake, has his name on the bottle
It’s there if you want to go more into the lore.
its used in distillery
What would’ve made him a better engineer was focusing on one aspect like Deeprock’s and TF2’s but trobomi tries to do everything without paying attention to what makes his counterparts good in the first place
He needs another rework if this is the biggest problem people have
hi agin
@@AnarqismYOU ARE EVERYWHERE. Are you like outside my house rn dude? :(
@@smugdodofart27 yes
wdym everything all he does is build sentries, he doesnt have any support
Kinda liked Torb in his first iteration. A simple projectile slugging midget with a turret for support and coordinated assaults that can take scraps to enhance the life expectancy of his teammates, it made him actually pretty useful and even that little scrap of armor was actually damn right useful more then once and then they took the neer out of it leaving a engi with no Wrench.
I kinda wish armor addition could be re-added, like he has the scrap meter back and can either deploy the pack or just make it so when he hits you with the hammer as an ally, you start gaining armor up to a certain limit. Just something interesting
@@Warriorcat_UA-camYeah, they could have the hammer clack on a bit of armor per hit but it's loud and maybe even has voicelines so the enemy can know
Was a Torb main, made GM, stopped playing after sym became Zarya. Torb was actually a really good character at the start, it's just no one actually took the time to learn how to play. Single shots did same damage as Mcree but just had bullet drop, and their secondary did the same damage as reaper.
They ruined my boy and I've never forgiven them since.
@@Warriorcat_UA-cam it was with brigs released taken from her mad e temporary then just made to heal so if it happened to torb then I don’t think we want it
@@purplemouse320 IIRC shotgun blast was slightly better than Reaper's versus armor because the same total damage was in less total fragments
Another Engineer character that should be discussed is Barik from Paladins. another Dwarven Engineer that is also a tank class character. His design is about taking the frontline and fortifying his position with turrets and barriers.
A person of taste,culture and knowledge i see.
I've played Paladins, Tf2, Overwatch and DRG.
Barik is also pretty shallow in the role of 'engineer', but better than Torbjorn for sure. With Forgefire talent, you could have 4 sentries scattered around the capture point and cards that synergize with his sentries so they do matter
Funny enough doesn't he have a TF2 skin of the engineer as well.
@@aaronlaughter6471he does, it's a free skin if I remember correctly
Yes Barik also know as the "Engineer from TF2" is a pretty fun character to play. Also i consider it mandatory to use TF2 Engineer skin when playing as Barik. 🔧
Engineer has something Torbjourn doesn’t.
He solves practical problems
with more gun
And don't forget his famous meme, Engineer Gaming
Not prolem what is beauty
@@christopherhugog8570 I'm pretty sure "Nope." is more popular.
dispenser
Haven't watched it but I assume it is due to his buildings, the engineering part, being secondary as opposed to TF2's and DRG's Engineers, of whom the engineering parts are essential.
A little more specific than that, but you're on the right track ;)
Hell yeah!@@LucidMakesVideos
i mean drg sentries arent necessary at all. they help sure but they're only really good at cleaning up after you
the platform gun is more necessary to drg's engineer
@@comet.x still part of the Engineer identity, as well as the secondaries and grenades.
@@comet.x Platforms still count as a 'building,' and if you use weapon mods/overclocks like turret whip or em discharge you can absolutely main turrets; I run turret whip warthog with double turrets and become an artillery battery during swarms.
I asked the remaining Torbjorn mains what they thought of this video. Both of them left to get some liquor.
It's a life we live us torb mains
@@okbruhlolsjwhw as a tf2 engineer main lets saddle down and pickup the ole beer pardner
🥹🙏
The problem with this video is that it's asking Blizzard to do something intellegently
Edit: Also, fun fact, Torb is the only one of this trio to actually create more problems than he solved. He's responsible for the original Omnic Crisis. Imagine if TF2 Engie was behind Mann vs Machine, or if DRG Engie was behind the Rival Tech bots.
Dell could still be setting up some issues with assisting the administrator, if we ever get that 7th comic, but so far, nothing much. His grandfather, however, has caused most of the current issues, considering he did the life extending machines.
i dont think adressing the "issues" shown in this video is any smarter. op put a lot of effort to this, but hes not well informed at all.
Torb..isn't responsible for that though.
i mean his grandfather was the reason the whole gravelwars happened which then turned into mvm
@@cataro_kujo you know a few decades of merc contracts does not seem equivelant to planetary war against omnicidal ai just saying even if you count mvm which I don't grey I believe made his own
Damn shame because I love Torbjorn as a character
His design is great, his backstory and personality are great
But because of the absolute state Overwatch is in now, he's a shell of his former self...
The drg engineer is a better version
@@madmonty4761ok
The whole thing about torb is that blizzard wanted to make him more independent to his turret
@@arthuruiugamesbr9777 if they wanted to lean more into the Battle Engineer aspect, then Torb should have had a risk reward to his turrets and his independance. being an engineer means solving problems, so that means Torb should be kitted to handle multiple problems that the Heroes in the game cause. being a battle engineer just makes him more focused on disposable turrets and a bolt gun, he should be given multiple types of buildings and turrets that do different types of damage (Rockets, lasers, bullets, etc)
You forgot to mention that Symmetra's turrets also have utility in slowing down enemies, and they also have much less range.
Or at least that was the case in OW1, I refuse to play the cashgrab sequel and I'm unsure if it's changed in it.
people have been consistently asking to remove the slow actually, but they nerfed the damage to 25 dps each, 3 turrets
@@polar6066 Oh yeah, remove the slow while keep the meteor strike/sunstick
Totally reasonable
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Saladmeteor strike is an ult tho
he was never like this, obviously the first iteration of torb was heavily inspired by tf2s engineer where the majority of his dps is from his turret ESPECIALLY with ult which turned it t3, however over the years from his first rework theyve been slowly pulling back on power on his turret, when they reworked him, his ult no longer steroided his turret, and no setup was required just a set and forget tool, the turret still had impact though, but in ow2 the casual playerbase mainly wanted the turret to be nerfed so his power got shifted more into torb himself then his turrets even though it wasn't a needed nerf and also ends up just ruining his identity altogether
I can imagine the nerf from the turret was to make him pair with Symmetra since her sentries were also nerfed in damage but even then, they made it so Symm's sentries can detect enemies in their range as well as giving Symm shield and damage boost for how much the sentries damaged the enemy while Torb just recieved an autoreload when overloaded.
Giving Torb abilites to buff his sentries would be nice. Like overloading affects his sentry too, or molten core lets his sentry burn people. Something other than a throwable.
Tf2's engineer has a name though. Dell Conagher.
I didn't expect that last bit to actually make me feel kinda bad for torbjorn
also, pineapple
as a torb main, this little dwarf FUCKING NEEDS A REWORK.
I hope we get one soon for him, but we can only hope...
He doesn’t need a rework, he needs to be reverted. Literally every issue in this video could be solved with his old design.
@@firstwaddledee9182 yep. Let his turret be an actual threat that needs time to setup and is worth protecting, let him give armor packs again too... basically make him the damage dealer/support hybrid he originally was instead of a pure DPS he was never meant to be
remove symmetra and give torb teleporters
@@firstwaddledee9182 fuck you, I want a rework 😡
(armor packs are fucking awesome though, bring them back plz blizzard)
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 let sym keep the tellies but give torbjörn something to assist his sentry like the repair node that went unused in tf2
What do you think about:
Barik from Paladins
Engineer from Risk Of Rain 2
Engineer from Garden Warfare 1 & 2
As a veteran engineer of TF2 when playing torb back in the early day of OW1. Torb was amazing and his sentry and support capability was great. Giving the other 2 support classes armour first really let people know you were a team player and his no cool down sentry spawn was great for farming ult charage. Level 3 sentry was great and i was 3 game wins away from GM as a torb main.
The rework made me loose most of my interest to play torb, i would argue he was nerfed so hard to what he was. I really wish they would allow previous reworks to be more of a build loadout. So you can choose to be Release day torb or the latest or how many reworks sym had.
In a lot of ways, I kind of feel like Torbjorn is a summation of the problems with Overwatch as a whole. So many of ideas seem to just be lifting things from other games and media without thinking about how they work in context, eventually filing off the few bits of character they had in order to chase the idea of being a big deal e-sports.
Hit the nail on the head.. or the turret with the wrench.
Exactly. The reason i got interested in ow was the different generes and playstyles. They took away everything that made him what he was sopposed to be, an engineer. Hes just a worse shooter.
Eh...nah they do know how to make them work in context...or at least they did.
There’s a bunch of misinformation in this one from out of date stats to basic context such as most characters who are actually threatened by turrets having poor effective ranges most notably tracer, and the fact torb is considered kind of meta while sym is a niche pick (her turrets don’t even slow anymore) who does the play style way less efficiently and is more akin to pyro.
Yep, and of course he skips over that because it doesn't fit with his narrative
he leaves out the fact that torb has insane close range dps with his right click, literally one of the only characters i've seen be able to gun down a healing hog with only a bit help
Torb's turret doing basically no dmg is a band-aid fix. Auto aim turret is not fun for anyone and was much stronger than it was in the new 5v5 version of the game, so they had to do something. Overwatch has too many bigger problems for the devs to do anything to Torb, I'm sure they'll rework him if the game survives the next couple of years.
I feel like they could balance it by making it a projectile weapon rather than hitscan, but keeping the auto-aim. That way they can buff up the damage and make it more effective at holding close quarters choke points, but inconsistent at longer ranges because past a certain point, just walking in a straight line sideways you'd outpace the travel time of the projectiles.
ya facts hire this guy blizzard. players who learned the timing could totally dodge most shots too but it would also make them more predictable for torb to shoot at@@tau-5794
This comment kinda didn't age well, given that the game is in a massively better state than it was only a scant 6 months ago. Happy about that tho, it's more fun to play :>
wym I legit called it, they already announced they were reworking 2 dps soon, one of them is pretty much has to be torb. I think their plan was exactly what I said. Make game in better state, then worry about Torb. And they are on the torb part now after making the game better(except not rly for tank players ).Also I do not think their progress in 6 months is a lot lol. The update that put the game in a better state was a mere small numbers tweak. 6 months for that lmao. Mauga and Flashpoint gamemode are such Ls too@@zorimanar2247
I remember playing an event vs bots where you babysit an unmoving payload for a good 10 minutes while the vehicle (that torbjorn designed) struggles to boot up and start moving.
and I thought to myself, Torbjorn, you're fired.
Having an ability that swaps what playstyles you are using would be a pretty solid way to differentiate Torb. With the flick of a button, maybe on cooldown, he could go from a maybe squishier, but faster and higher damage outputting combat mechanic with a weaker, but ultimately more offensive sentry to a tankier, supportive role with a tougher, upgradable sentry and maybe even the armor packs. Go crazy with the guy, he's just an under utilized meme rn
Torbjorn was initially created to be under the "Defense" category and has received little changes from then till now. That's why he plays the way he does. He was never meant to be anything but a 2CP defense hero.
But he fails at doing that, as statement in comparision to engineer, thats why at 7:08 trying to ad an idea for a rework to make him adaptable.
Little changes? I guess ult change, removing turret upgrading, collecting metal, and armor packs are a 'little changes'
The character was completely rebuilt from what he used to be
Man i couldn't agree with you more, yet this video made me sad, not only for the waste of potential, but because you made me remember overwatch, and i main Torbjorn.
he was closer to the engineer theme at release, having a building he cared about and needed to keep alive like his TF2 counterpart (and the turret was an even more blatant copy than now, having 3 levels that had one gun, then two guns, then two guns and a missile launcher on top... even then though it was wimpy, but at least the frail flankers like tracers had to be mindful of it), and supporting teammates through armor packages.
They graducally moved him away from it though to the point the turret is reduced to a mere afterthought (a peashooter that cant do more than finish off someone who's already critical or be an alarm system) and he cant support his team anymore with armor packages, turning him just into yet another DPS that just wants to click on heads, just with an engineer theme slapped on.
Blizzard balancing to appease competetive scene and making every character bland "shoot head" dps at it's finest
Tbh i dont think anyone gives a hell that torb had a leveling up system for his turret, i never understood the obsession with eveyeone calling him a engineer rip off when his kit works entirely different are their similarity's sure but to say hes a rip off is just dumb, cause engineers sentry and torbs turret work in two different ways tf2s sentry has a small range but can kill people quickly, torbs turret has a longer range but slower to kill, ment to pick off health at a distance
@@rav_productions2136 the levelling system was pretty meaningful: it meant that Torb needed setup time for his defense to be at its best, and that a fully upgraded turret could afford to be a bigger threat. It also meant the turret was worth the time to repair and protect it unlike the current throwaway version, especially as his ult was tied to the turret itself.
And I mean come on Torb even had to salvage scrap from corpses to give armor packs, something akin to a tf2 engie grabbing ammo boxes from corpses to build his stuff, so yeah he really used to be the tf2 engie adapted into overwatch, being even if the turret never had as much punch. (And thats from someone that played both here)
Nowadays he is way more different than the TF2 engineer, but id argue the character lost his gameplay identity entirely in the process and is now only a shell of what he used to be. He'd have been better off if he was still a thematic clone of the TF2 engie rather than pushing him into a dps role he was never designed for
@@thorveim1174 you know what I honestly agree and even if I don't agree with that whole clone mentality since by definition a clone is an exact copy, since Torb does alot to differentiate himself if anything he was inspired and does things way better then the engineer, but other then that, that's why I think beta Torb worked the best since he needed to work hard and collect scrap to keep his stuff up and to upgrade it, not to mention he had to choose between using his scrap between his turret or his amour packs so you had to think about how you used it.
Another thing is Torb should be powerful if you leave him to his own devices and he should be an actual threat his level 3 turret should be a simi op item because of how much effort and time you had to put into the thing, the only thing I felt was truly op with the og Torb was the ult, say what you want about the turrets but it rewarded Torb for staying alive and collecting scrap and in turn it made his turret stronger
But back to the ult, the reason I think it was pretty op was because it was just a get out of jail free card to get his turret to level 3 with the unlimited scrap, in my opinion a level 3 turret is something you would have to earn with great turret placement and scrap management and the way I would have done it was just have it refill his scrap bar so he was just able to get his turret to the next level cause I'm not gonna lie the original Molton core made Torb a powerhouse and I feel like giving him unlimited scrap was to much, and the thing is Torb should be one of those characters who gradually becomes more powerful as the match goes on
Torb upgrading his turret should be a gradual process since unlike TF2 where engineer can get metal to upgrade his stuff from his dispenser, ammo packs or just even going back to spawn, Torb has to rely on picking up scrap from fallen enemy's and Torb had way more of the tools to do so then engineer all engineer had were secondary a shotgun and a pistol basically only good for up close combat and would always need a sentry gun next to him that's legit the whole reason why the mini sentry exists if he wanted to be more aggressive, while Torb didn't really need to by his turret all the time, was it preferable to be by his turret yeah, but at the same time Torb had way more firepower at his disposal and an actual gun that was ment for long range the rivit gun which also had an ult fire which was a shotgun up close, he did pretty good damage so he doesn't need to rely so much on his turret like engie does his sentry, he could output good damage
The thing is old Torb could have worked with a couple tweaks to the kit, cause other then that he was pretty balanced because it took him time to set up his turret and to upgrade it, he could do decent damage by himself, not to mention it he had to cut into his own scrap supply to give himself or his teammates armor
Say what you want about modern Torb but the only reason and why the rework exists is how blizzard legit handled Torb after the beta, they locked the level 3 turret behind an ult as well as the original molton core basically giving him two ults amd giving the turret as much health as a dam tank, They removed using scrap to upgrade your turret so you just now had to hit your level 1 Turret 5 times to turn into a level 2 and you used your scrap to make armor....and then they legit made it so he passively gains back scrap and it's just like...why? You took what made torb balanced and interesting to play and made it way to easy to get instant value out of his abilities and Blizzard basically sealed torbs fate for a rework with these dumb changes
Torb is currently in my opinion one of the most broken dps out there, with aim he has a reaper shotgun and can easily 1v1 snipers plus has a turret and area denial ulti on top of having insane atk speed and hp+armor with e
Broken but situational
@@maninhu9837 weirdly enough I always pick Torb, def or attack, I am by no means GOOD at him but I am decent, I have yet to lose a proper 1v1 even against tanks, maybe only other torbs or roadhog but I've 1v1'd even that
@@totallynotdsl8507 I play him too, mainly as a rage pick, if your team is decent, then you can set up turrets to deal with supports and rush the tank, another thing to do is set it around corners, if the wall is thin enough the barrel can barely shoot enemies from a more covered position.
real big fan of this one, good pacing, respects the viewer, and a good blend of analytics and personal critique, nice video man :)
That's what happens when you keep adding characters to the point of not being able to balance each one to have their own thing
You could make torbjorn earn tf2 gear-like objects by dealing damage to enemies. This way he'd be forced to have more offensive playstyle, that would also succeed in improvement of defense.
honestly when i played torb he felt weird and i didn't know what to do with his kit, offense, defense. relieved to know i wasnt the only one who felt that way
While i agree. Torb is a better character overrall then sym. At least right now, sym is very map dependent while Torb can be brought out on far more maps and is one of the most successful characters rn. Actually, him being better then sym has been a pretty consistent thing. Atleast outside of low level games
He is cool as DWARF but bad as engineer thats kinda sad
"give him the armor packs he used to have"
Me, thinking about an armor packed Orosa:
No. Just no.
Nobody remembers the Engineer from the PS2 game _Star Wars Battlefront II._
I remember the "play of the game" I got with lvl 3 sentry while I was chilling at its side. A well positioned, with a good understanding of the map line of sights and carring to not be flanked got me good memories.
TBH if they'd make torb close to what Engi is PDA and Buldings included, I'd play him way more! Give him a Dispenser and a Teleporter!
Torbjorn is a failed engineer but he does make some interesting inventions in some stories. Heck he is one of those responsible for creating the Bastion units and was the one who reworked Bastion.
A dwarf who has truly disappointed his ancestors
Even current day Barik from Paladins stand as a better Engineer than Torbjorn is. and my boi was Neutered severely through out the years after being released as part of the first eight Champions.
I've never even really played Paladins, but all these comments about Baril are interesting me...
I haven't played Paladins in over a year but I always liked Barik. His ultimate being a small but powerful area denial tool really works thematically compared to Torbjorn's ult. And there's also the fact that, unlike Overwatch, Overwatch at least has some level of character customization.
@@LucidMakesVideos I wanted to comment about Barik from paladins! It's so wild to me, because despite Paladins being a game that rode off of Overwatch's success- and Barik even having a tf2 engineer skin, I feel like Barik has a much more distinct and solid identity compared to torbjorn, and is like. Way more fun to play. In game, Barik is a tank character- and he has the lowest base health out of every character in the tank class. In exchange, he can build turrets- multiple of them, if not contested enough- and while they don't do a lot of damage themselves, they add to his point presence and can be hard to take down when you have barik himself and two other turrets spread out attacking from three angles. Alternatively, you can keep them all close together where they're more likely to focus fire, defending them with your deployable shield and maintaining them passively with a build for keeping them alive while you're near them. He has multiple distinct playstyles thanks to Paladins' talent and card systems, and is just a super dynamic character compared to torbjorn- well deserving to stand alongside TF2's and DRG's engineers. He can be the adopted child :)
tldr; Barik is paradoxically less derivative than his equivalent character from the game that everyone makes fun of Paladins for copying, and I think that's wild
Risk of Rain 2's engineer is also worth taking a look at
There was another 2016 game by popcap that gave us a superior enginear
"Plants vs zombies garden warfare 2 " its on steam and its great no joke
Also great video
4:32 don't forget her shield instead of HP (in most cases) IS AN UPGRADE!
I love when a new vid comes out you can see the editing get slightly better every time keep it up
As a Torbjörn main i like the challenge of well placed turrets and dinking headshots.
*Engi:* 🎶You got a bad case of Napoleon syndrome, but at least Mr Bonaparte knew how win some🎶
🎶Diversification is my certification teleporters and health dispensers I can make them🎶
🎶Now whip out your tennis launcher we're playing hardball you're an easy target when you're wider than you are tall🎶
🎶It won't only be your toes that I'm stepping on I know you're swedish but I still think you're a leprechaun 🎶
As someone who likes playing Engie (both TF2 and DRG), I did try to play Torb when I used to play OW, then I learned about Symmetra and her tower defense playstyle and never looked back... at least until Overwatch died...
Another thing, Torb's sentry is also outbeat by another character in OW... who was legitimately a playable sentry...
You just ain’t doing it right- Engineer
That right there is just a sad display boy- Engineer
Tf2 engi does have a name, although its not said in game. Dell Conagher
I love how your first two suggestions for Torbjorn improvements are just… The Wrangler. Shows how much better TF2 fully is.
I hate to use wrangler, other than placing sentry in funny spot, and that exactly what there werent metioned!
@@expepem189xl3 agree, it also feels so dirty to use because you have the effective health as 2 heavys on lvl 3, overhealed heavy on level 2, and a normal heavy on a mini. It also gives more dps to help stuff ubers
The fact that they were working on talents (RIP OW2 proper) means there should be plenty at their disposal for ability buffs/reworks. Even 2 at 2/3 damage and 150 health would be better since more angles even if less pressure in one place
Yeah!Thanks i feel it too! And if you dont activlly use it, switching on it in heat of battle could just render your base sentry less while you playing more agressive, and trying to place tp in capture the flag(I am not doing it just for tp). @@aguy3753
Also the Turret Whip mod for DRG Engineer's shotgun causes your sentry to fire a power-shot when you shoot it with your shotgun, which is similar to the first suggestion in the video.
I love seeing underrated channels that do good content
keep up the good work :D
Torbjorn is one of those characters that the Overwatch devs could never figure out what to do with. He's been reworked over and over, and now he's a bland, neutered echo of his original incarnation. His turret used to be a powerhouse, and his armour packs gave him a supportive role. I don't know if reverting him to his original state would be a good thing per se, but his current state obviously needs changing. Well, I haven't actually played Overwatch in years and never liked playing Torbjorn anyway, but it's sad seeing a game I used to like get done so dirty like this over the past half-decade.
He clearly does not own an air fryer
I would also say that Heimerdinger from LoL is a preaty good representation of the engeneer archetype even tho he is suposed tobe a mad scientist, not an engeneer
I think his original incarnation was a decent, if streamlined iteration on the TF2 engi that made sense for the game he was in. But over the years, Torb has been streamlined so much that he doesn't have much of that original identity anymore. Even now they're trying to lower the power of his turret and buff his rivet gun, which like, yeah the rivet gun is fun but an engineer it does not make. Even the most fun part of his kit, his ultimate, has nothing to do with engineering.
I think the best thing they could do with his current design is actually incorporate the turret variants introduced in the gothenburg pve mission. Nerf some other aspects of his kit to compensate and give him the choice to plant normal turret, freeze turret or knockback turret and I think that would give him a versatile playstyle befitting an engineer and make him less comparable to Symmetra.
At 5:05 your technically wrong, while the drg engi has no name the tf2 ones is actually Dell Coniger
🕳
The extra abilities and turret sounds so cool. Using your idea asa template. I can imagine the turret having 2 modes. Attack mode, the turret fires a burst of bullets, dealing around 75 FPS, but having to cool down after a couple of rounds. And a defense mode, where it deals way less damage, let's say 25 FPS, they have a constant yet slow fire rate, idk something like 1 shot a sec, but the bullets have a greater knockback allowing you to defend an area
trob have a lot of potential as a character in lore he have tons of from his small weird ball trap to massive robots.
I remember like Torbjorn when Overwatch first came out. I haven't played in so long, I actually didn't know that he didn't have the 3 levels of turrets anymore. I remember it was one of the funniest ways to get play of game, by just using his ult to get the level 3, and go do something stupid while the turret killed the whole enemy team. It's a shame the playerbase is so whiny about things that aren't braindead easy to understand how to beat at a beginner level. Reminds me of that character that's just a turret. Can't remember the name anymore, but at launch everyone was convinced they were broken beyond belief, but after about 6 months, they were considered one of the worst characters at mid to high levels. Torbjorn's Turret was a similar situation in my mind. If you aren't familiar with how to bait a turret, as you can in TF2, a Turret probably looks incredible OP. But once you know how to deal with it, it's only a threat when it's backed with players that are preventing you from destroying it. Oh well, one more reason to never go back to Overwatch.
When I was playing Overwatch, I played Torbjorn a bit.
And I am upset they removed the armor packs, it gave him a slightly different role than Dell. Plus it let you over extend when his molten core was his ultimate, straight up captured a flag by popping that and shoving my face full of armor packs until I got back to my side.
Torb has enough lore to fit being an Engie. But over the years, they removed the supportive role he once had, turning him into a bad dps. Overwatch used to have 4 categories, but removing that has noticeably affected Torb and Bastion, putting them into a more offensive role that they weren’t fundamentally designed for. They took the Engie out of Engineer. And nobody really wants to play as a Near.
I haven't played Overwatch since like, 2017 or 2018, so imagine my shock when I found out that Jizzard took away his level 2-3 sentry and armor packs.
If you think torb's primary and secondary fire are bad you are having an active skill issue
That's what I'm saying
Torn should’ve been a support hero
1:37 -- God damnit Gunner, you made me try to Rock and Stone again! I'm in public!
What about the builder from Clash Of Clans? Even though he is not categorized as an Engineer, he can create buildings for the village even with his passive nature
The issue with Torb is simply that he can't compete with TF2 Engineer's power... being permanently stuck with a single stage sentry is a huge problem since you can't make it too strong or he'll just lock down games, but since it's so weak you can basically ignore the thing
Having multiple stages with higher DPS will make Torb more of a threat if not dealt with, and more of a priority to defend and keep alive
And while this doesn't help him differentiate himself from Engie that well it certainly gives him an actual role to play
We grant you a seat at the table but do not grant you the title of engineer
as a Swedish person i can confirm we banished Torbjörn from our kingdom a long time ago, he was a threat to the other dwarves you see.
The engineer but with a mini sentry as the only building and the pomson as a primary
What you get is an architect. Torbjorn is an architect.
After watching both of your videos about Engineers (both of which I think are fantastic for a channel as surprisingly small as yours), they got me thinking about the Engineer Zombie from the Plants Vs. Zombies shooter games (Garden Warfare 1, Garden Warfare 2, and Battle for Neighborville).
I think it would be really interesting to compare the Techie Zed to the Engies that came before him, considering how Team Fortress 2 was a main draw of inspiration for designing the PVZ Shooter Games. Engineer is a peculiar character. You can unlock variants of him, which primarily act as a way of changing his primary weapon, he has three abilities, all of which have their own sidegrades/variants of, and his roles change throughout the shooter games, from being mainly offensive, to mainly defensive, to a weird blend of both.
You've just earned a subscribe from me! Looking forward to your next video :)
overwatch copied pvz garden warfare change my mind
Unpopular opinion but I really liked Torb from OW1 with his level 3 ult turret. I know a lot of people will say that he played mindlessly back then just sitting behind the turret and punching it, but man for me personally it was so fun when I died and in the spawn room I ulted, making the turret level 3 and then I get a sextuple kill without being on the battlefield. 😂
"He is a dwarf"
TheLucidLetters
"I am not a dwarf!"
Torbjörn
I loved playing Torb before his rework because he actualy had a role. His Sentry actually did something and he was able to give his team armor. Now he's just a projectile shooter with a disposable turret that does nothing besides catching low hp enemies off guard on their way to the nearest healthpack. You handycap yourself just by simply playing as him. If you play offensive, you will die unless your aim and prediction skills are on the level of a pro. Wanna play defensive? Prepare to not accomplish anything and be called a thrower by your team.Wanna play on the objective? Just simply shoot your projectile down every sightline until you randomly headshot some poor dps class on their way to the nearest healthpack.
Correction: The TF2 Engineer does have a name: Dell Conagher. Though its in the lore and wiki that you have to find it.
With this, I wonder if we’ll get a Risk of Rain 2 video too
I’m a game about just spamming abilities in the direction of your enemy, they turned sentries into just another ability to spam.
5:00 that's "kinda" wrong.
The TF2 comics actually give us the canonical names of each merc, save for the Spy (because well... he IS a Spy, secrecy is his thing), and for Pyro (he is supposed to be a boogieman, so it also makes sense, plus it's an fan joke that he might be a woman).
The Engineer is called Dell Conagher. :)
PS: Below are all TF2 mercs' names.
Heavy is Misha (Mikhail)
Scout is Jeremy
Soldier is Jane Doe
Demoman is Tavish DeGroot
Medic is Ludwig
If you decide to continue this series that goes over how characters ether succeeded at or failed at going beyond their inspiration to carve out their own niche for their game series, then i would highly recommend looking into the garden warfare games, they are an interesting bunch of games that turn the plants vs zombies games into asymmetrical class based shooter games. And I would argue that although their balance leaves a lot to be desired, their heart was in the right place when it came to everything else, including innovation on the previous generation, (being tf2 and tf2 alone, also yes the first of these games came out before overwatch came out, and after further investigation I have reason to believe that the garden warfare games were the secondary class design inspiration for overwatch.) although your series has only focused on the engineer style of class so far I believe there would be enough material to go over how all nine tf2 classes (or ten if you count the unused commander class.) were reimagined in the garden warfare games. As well as how the garden warfare games went on to inspire future games, unfortunately the inspiration has not extended to how the first two garden warfare games have balanced their sniper characters because we can’t have nice things apparently. (context: out of all shooters that allow for different playstyles, the one that, I have seen so far, pulls off the sniper character the most successfully is the first two garden warfare games. We do not talk about the third game much, how they butchered the uniqueness and balanced nature of the sniper characters is only one of the many many reasons why.)
Btw, nice job on the video. You pretty much hit the nail on the head.
There's also the engineer from PvZ:GW
The off putting security hall theme in the back lol
hoping that these videos will get me into uni
The Torb vs Sym completely disregards everything else about the characters beyond turret function and health pools. I'm hardly an OW super fan, especially when it comes to the sequel, but there's plenty more to both of those heroes. Like yeah Sym's turrets deal more damage when they're stacked up together but they break just by being sneezed on and have very limited range. And when they do die each turret is on a 10 second cooldown. Meanwhile torb's turret is a borderline sniper with how far it can detect enemies. And that's just me scratching the surface of the one ability they sorta share, every other aspect of these 2 are just so very different.
Reducing it all down to their difference in healthpools and a flawed comparison of their turrets feels very disingenuous.
Torb sentry also dies if sneezed at.
@@semvision there's a big difference between 30 hp and 250 especially when one has like 10x the range
We don't talk about the sequel
hwo 2 play torbyorn::
-shoot choke
-shooot choke at head level (lol funy crossmap headshoots)
-Under NO circumstances are you to use your turret for anything other than countering the tracer on the other team. That is the turret's SOLE ROLE.
-come
As a former Torb "main," my biggest issues with his various reworks is that it took away his capacity to defend with preemptive damage and replaced it with the ability to... throw a turret somewhere he can't repair it and hope no one notices the big red laser beam coming off of it. They turned his ultimate that boosted his and his turret's HP and DPS into a cooldown ability that only works on himself, they took away his armor packs entirely to give them to his daughter, and made his ultimate "the floor is lava," somehow an even more defensive ability than a stationary turret.
Torb could easily have a turret that has three modes. Level 2 is default, Overload would temporarily upgrade the turret to level 3 and give Torb an increased move/firing speed, and the other I'll call Defrag downgrades it to level 1 but makes it immune to damage while Torb gets a speed boost; one aids his offense, the other his defense, but both can be used for the opposite in certain situations. Armor packs come back as a kill-based cooldown (since Blizzard dropped the "kills makes items spawn" mechanic for everyone except Mercy) that work on himself, allies, and turret. Molten Core ultimate can stay I guess, he doesn't exactly have a second, better type of machine that he's known for that isn't Bastion or pulling an entire Titan out of his 3-foot behind.
we need a 1984 style hate week, but directed exclusively at torbjorn
Now do barik, his cards and talents bassicly make him borderline unlikeable, he made drogos wings and discovered gem technology which makes him easily a bigger deal then "weapon creator" and he isn't half as boring as torbjorn
I've neverminded Barik. Outside of how spamable his shield is, his turrets are even worse than Torbjorn's.
@@pepperonipizza8200 true
Engineers: the ones who drop funny gun.
Good take, I didn't realize how much missing potential torb had. I would love to see more adaptability. Symm definitely feels more like the engineer with many tools at her disposal while torb only has the one-note turret. I hope they consider doing another rework with him like sombra and roadhog recently.
As someone that plays Overwatch, there are a few reasons to pick torbjorn over symmetra.
1. Flying characters are hard to shoot, meaning symmetra can only deal damage when their movement is either hindered or the abilities are on cooldown. Meanwhile, torbjorn's turret has longer range that takes advantage of a flying character's tendency to be out in the open and away from cover
2. The health. Symmetra doesn't just have 25 less health. The number says 25 less but torbjorn also has armor attatched to his health, which means that the difference is more than 25 hp (idk really know the number). In addition, he can enter a mode that increases his attack and movement speed and gives him extra (unarmored) health which increases it more. He also has a special hitbox that is different from most characters and requires a change in aim-style to hit.
3. Symmetra's ult is meant to block damage while torbjorn's ult deals damage. He covers the map in molten metal which deals massive damage-over-time and gives enemies a burn effect. It's like placing a lava bucket in minecraft. Symmetra's ult is a giant shield which is only helpful against certain characters and in certain situations while torb's ult can block pathways and cover payloads which can be the difference between the game going into overtime and winning.
Other than that, symmetra outclasses torbjorn in every single way. Good video 10/10
how is torbjorn a straight downgrade to symmetra? his turret has *way* more range, and you can melt tanks if they try to contest you and you have overload
he's way more bunkery than symm because overload gives you more survivability and you're far better at 1v1s due to having higher dps and damage reduction with armor, while symm has higher mobility and utility with tp
he also has arguably better poke than symm since his projectiles are faster and can headshot
not to mention their ults are completely different
Another interesting thing is that both TF2 and DRG engineers are adaptable to be offensive or defensive respectively. You can 100% modify your engineer to be play whatever style you want, like battle engi, and double turret camper.
This video just shows me WHY the cancelled PvE mode was necessary, because it could've allowed heroes like torbjorn to be modified for that mode, maybe even bleeding into the pvp mode.
I feel like comparing Symm and Torb isn't a great comparison mainly for the reason yes they both have turrets it doesn't mean they fill the same role in a team. Symm is pushed to charge her beam and go in full aggressive whereas Torb is more laid back. I think if he kept his older version where he could upgrade his turrets more it would be cool, but in reality that wouldn't really work because overly defensive heroes in a overly offensive game might not have the time to set up stuff like that
tf2 is an offensive game and engie from tf2 not only that he has to manage 3 more buildings while invis spies destroy it or kill him enemy rocket launchers and grenade launches at least 3 shots his buildings he has to constantly build and build and build with his buildings being the ones that can take out an entire push on its own its the equivalent of torb having a sentry that has the hp of 2 roadhogs and the turret style of bastion with aimbot I bet he can stop anypush like that and with the support of his team? maybe genji who can deflect stuff away from the sentry that sentry can suddenly be used for aggressive playstyle too put the sentry at the enemy spawn or funny spots and take out some straglers
Unfortunately an upgraded turret would become broken quite easily, because unless you nerf Torbjorn himself, having even just half a hero extra in your team, which doesn't miss, would be incredibly strong. Especially in 5v5. If you want it to do more damage you would have to nerf range, it's ability to hit or survivability. Probably a combination of things would be necessary. There is a reason, that TF2 engineer sentry doesn't just gain another minigun from 2 to 3, but a dogable projectile attack.
I feel like such video could be made about much more characters from overwatch. It feels like adding weapons, rather than characters, with personality and lore which tf2 exectuted perfectly and still overwatch took over the popularity around hero shooters while remaining a broken game
Symmetra also has (or had idk) a teleporter.
Appropriately enough, Engineer is my favorite class in both TF2 and DRG, but I don't like playing Torbjorn in OW. Instead Brigitte and Junkrat were my go-to picks in OW.
... I also don't really play OW anymore, but I don't think that's just because Torbjorn was underwhelming. =P
I love Torbjorn. I never played overwatch 1, so I never got to experience old torb.
And i would love to see a rework for him, but with the game being so fast-paced, I dont know how they can rework him regarding his turret.
I mean, I could see them make his turret overload when he overloads . Or when he shoots his turret it overclocks and does a turret whip like DRG engie. If anything make his turret be able to move or stick to walls or have it be able to mount on his or his tank's back.
I would love to see you do a more in-depth video on how to make torb be who he was meant to be. The best of both worlds.