What's really impressive is his admitting that mimetic desire is already in the Ten Commandments and that he only got to its knowlegge later than his first book on mimetism. Actually René Girard (re)became Christian late in his life, so it's a genuine thing the honors him. OUI, VRAIMENT UN GRAND PENSEUR.
So, largely, Christianity ends (or attempts to end or guides us to end) the cyclical behavior of mimetic desire? I find this theory of mimetic desire, it being the driving force of civilization, so interesting. Desire. A desire to have what your neighbor desires and then desiring to be your neighbor, the multiplication of individuals who desire the same objects, the realization of the scarcity of that object, a fermentation of conflict and then a sacrifice of a scapegoat to quench the fires that have been created by desire. Is this correct?
Shortly, yes. Though even larger part of Girard's theory is abandoning scapegoat sacrifices. According to his theory this is what human groups could have been inclining to channel the inner neurosis which originated in mimetic desire. Understand that such a desire is sub-conscious, one does not know why one desires. As member's desires collide, it causes tension, everybody is irritable. The inner agression may cause the mutual combat, a group's disaster. Girard's thesis is that in such a scenario the group, again sub-consciously, chooses some individual as a scapegoat, who is 'determined' as the 'guilty', executed in a common action. This relieves the tension, the group may continue to live. Sure, it has not been substantianed, the scapegoat was not the cause, definitely not of all the tensions. But because there is a relieve, the group may repeat the process. The group may even ritualize it and modify it, eg. to sacrifice an animal. In Christ, you are shown that he was innocent. Once understood, it is much more difficult to regress into scapegoating again. Hence you need other methods how to prevent the tension at all. You are focused on your own deeds and feelings, to have better control of them.
@@reluminopraha5948 so Christianity is an attempt to disrupt the scenario/behavior by making individuals look inward (self, ground zero of mimetic desire) for the solution and nip it in the bud instead of outward (scapegoat)? Is desire the result of having a body or is it a part of the spirit?
He's almost gets it right... it isn't that there is no longer sacrifice, it is a continuation in the lesson that the sacrifice for sin must come from God -- not from humanity -- for it to be effective. Abram/Isaac is the same kind of "type" or allegory. Psalm 50 is another spotlight on this concept that it isn't God who wants the sacrifice, it is humanity. To put a very fine point on it -- imo -- it is the clergy part of humanity which uses their "spiritual authority" of the perceived need for forgiveness as a a cudgel against the congregant seeking forgiveness --- rather than teaching that the Eucharist's purpose is to remind the world that God has already provided that forgiveness in Christ. Denominations result from dueling gatekeeper claims around what the New Testament portrays as an initiation rite -- immersion for the signifying the receipt of the gift thru trust in God to recognize Christ as the sacrifice in the day of judgement... and the provision of the Holy Spirit as helper in the meantime.
The greatest thinking Frenchman of our time.
What's really impressive is his admitting that mimetic desire is already in the Ten Commandments and that he only got to its knowlegge later than his first book on mimetism. Actually René Girard (re)became Christian late in his life, so it's a genuine thing the honors him.
OUI, VRAIMENT UN GRAND PENSEUR.
Excellent. A post like a fine wine, even better with age.
This thinker has actually made discoveries
8:55 begins when my mind is blown away!
So, largely, Christianity ends (or attempts to end or guides us to end) the cyclical behavior of mimetic desire? I find this theory of mimetic desire, it being the driving force of civilization, so interesting. Desire. A desire to have what your neighbor desires and then desiring to be your neighbor, the multiplication of individuals who desire the same objects, the realization of the scarcity of that object, a fermentation of conflict and then a sacrifice of a scapegoat to quench the fires that have been created by desire. Is this correct?
The teaching is YOU are nothing more than the result of desire. It is all imitation, we are mere copies in a cycle of imitation.
Shortly, yes. Though even larger part of Girard's theory is abandoning scapegoat sacrifices. According to his theory this is what human groups could have been inclining to channel the inner neurosis which originated in mimetic desire. Understand that such a desire is sub-conscious, one does not know why one desires. As member's desires collide, it causes tension, everybody is irritable. The inner agression may cause the mutual combat, a group's disaster. Girard's thesis is that in such a scenario the group, again sub-consciously, chooses some individual as a scapegoat, who is 'determined' as the 'guilty', executed in a common action. This relieves the tension, the group may continue to live.
Sure, it has not been substantianed, the scapegoat was not the cause, definitely not of all the tensions. But because there is a relieve, the group may repeat the process.
The group may even ritualize it and modify it, eg. to sacrifice an animal.
In Christ, you are shown that he was innocent. Once understood, it is much more difficult to regress into scapegoating again. Hence you need other methods how to prevent the tension at all. You are focused on your own deeds and feelings, to have better control of them.
@@reluminopraha5948 so Christianity is an attempt to disrupt the scenario/behavior by making individuals look inward (self, ground zero of mimetic desire) for the solution and nip it in the bud instead of outward (scapegoat)?
Is desire the result of having a body or is it a part of the spirit?
@@reluminopraha5948 to imitate/desire Christ/God instead of your neighbor/fellow man/things.
COULD THIS BE SOMETHING LIKE THE VICIOOUS CIRCLE! IN CULTURE?/NATURE-NATURAL LAW
I myself do drive the equivalent of a Donkey.
Isn't this part of what the Cathers were doing, renouncing covetousness? The Albegensian heresy rises again?
He's almost gets it right... it isn't that there is no longer sacrifice, it is a continuation in the lesson that the sacrifice for sin must come from God -- not from humanity -- for it to be effective. Abram/Isaac is the same kind of "type" or allegory. Psalm 50 is another spotlight on this concept that it isn't God who wants the sacrifice, it is humanity. To put a very fine point on it -- imo -- it is the clergy part of humanity which uses their "spiritual authority" of the perceived need for forgiveness as a a cudgel against the congregant seeking forgiveness --- rather than teaching that the Eucharist's purpose is to remind the world that God has already provided that forgiveness in Christ. Denominations result from dueling gatekeeper claims around what the New Testament portrays as an initiation rite -- immersion for the signifying the receipt of the gift thru trust in God to recognize Christ as the sacrifice in the day of judgement... and the provision of the Holy Spirit as helper in the meantime.