Reminds me of the Canada Pearson airport video where the boss lady of the airport is lying through her teeth on how the flights are doing great and improved and the cameraman pans to the flight board literally right above her that shows almost every flight delayed or cancelled.
Can't look past the insanely shitty looking black plastic all over the car. Making the focus group out of a bunch of zoomers was a terrible idea. This will age very poorly
So happy Ford went with dual screens and the innovative 10 degree cant towards the driver. I have a similar setup in my cubicle and after 8-10 hours staring at them I can’t wait to spend just a little more time looking at a similar setup on my commute home. Refreshing.
I've said it elsewhere, but the reason you get this exceptional access to the engineers and designers is because you actually listen to what they say and tell their story. Please keep doing what you do and granting us access to the inner workings of the industry.
They reference the data a lot when it comes to user preferences, the one thing I’m curious on is if the data comes from people who buy mustangs or if it’s a general review board from within the company. I personally haven’t met anyone that says they like digital climate control versus physical
I feel like it’s just a plausibly deniable excuse of a story that let’s them justify what’s actually a cost-cutting measure, at least from a PR perspective
Ya they should learn from other automotive makers who have learned from the mistake of going all digital for HVAC etc. Oh well, they’ll learn soon enough.
The only people I can imagine saying they prefer entirely screen based buttons have never lived with one. Everyone I know who has lived with entirely screens prefers the mixed style (buttons for climate, seat, and audio)
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford. Modern Ford "Muh twenty-somethings who can't afford or don't want a Mustang, what do you want?"
Thanks to videos like this we can get some answers to what the hell were they thinking when they did this, i really appreciate that. Its interesting that Ford designers managed to capture so much of the current camaros design in the 'all new mustang'. I also old enough to remember the first time the car industry tried going to all digital guages in the late 80's and early 90's.. it didn't go that well. I'll be stunned if any of these new digital guages last more than 10 years without problems.
No idea how those screens passed any sort of legit litmus test unless they only asked 21 year old influencers. At the very least make them shaped like gauges or something or maybe seamless under the dash but to just have them sitting there like an afterthought is a travesty. The issue with the styling approach on the inside is that it will quickly look dated because tech advances so quickly. The interior is a complete miss on this car.
Man you must be an old fogie. The screens will always be up to date vs boring dials that never change. Even the original model S screens look modern because of software updates, vs a 20 year old car. You guys are funny and weird as hell.
@@mementomori29231 mate I’m 30+ it’s not a modern frameless intergrated screen like a Tesla, other then the dark horse for its tremec the GT and ecoboost models are gonna depreciate like hell with these Kia tablets
Can't wait to see some new content on UA-cam with mustangs flooring it 100% while pulling out of Cars And Coffee events and hitting pedestrians, curbs and other cars. It's been a while.
@@marcharris4176Honestly, I think it's just a factor of how cheap Mustangs are, considering they make over 400hp. That's a lot of car for not a lot of money! Very often it's someone's first high horsepower rwd vehicle. What do you really expect, at that point?
This is what's wrong with society. NYC and Hollyweird run the media and world, and tell my kids what they should like, and how to act. Oh, and we all know that it's the 5 rich folks running the media. How to be a slave. Good lord this is boring listening to them. I guess car people don't buy cars anymore. No hoods up around neighborhoods anymore. 2 themes. 30 millennial and Gen z. Progressive and modern. Omg, have you had discussions with any of them?
Very disappointed that you don't understand that there are *literally* millions of "younger" people who have wealthy parents or who can just afford this. I come from poor-as-hell parents, but my first adult car was a new 2014 Audi S4 that I treated myself to at 24 years old. That thing was $59,590. The new Dark Horse is only $57,970 (bargain). Most of the young people I worked with had cars ranging from new Mustang GT's to Mercedes C 63 AMG's. The narrative that all young people are broke (or don't have wealthy parents) is simply false.
I'm digging the big screens. I remember when people moaned and whined about big screen phones, how small screens were perfect. Now all phones are big because they sell. Same thing here. You all can whine all you want but you'll be the minority.
Really, you guys do great work when it comes to covering cars. And, special edition videos like this are amazing and superior to anything else out there. You should be really proud videos like this.
SG is second to none at this. Production value is insane and tbh manufacturers should (if they are not) be paying them for this kind of work to show off their cars
Totally agree. Hey everybody send this to your buddies, get them views, hence $$ to continue. First class Mark & Co. hang in there. Maybe focus on ICE drivers cars past and present. It’s your heritage and strength. Focus limits your market but avoids putting you up against the personalities of the moment. Focus is your future. Pick a segment and COMMAND IT.
I'm not going to write off this concept entirely, but.........the more companies that do this kind of stuff, the more thankful I am for how analogue my miata is.
You're the only youTuber who puts out quality content that dives into the engineering, vision and future of unique cars like these. Thank you for your work and passion!
the 2008 mustangs and camaros looked great. Maybe not original and a little disproportioned, but they're great. The challenger still looks amazing.@@d_all_in
I was really hot on getting a Dark Horse but now as my savings get to the point where I planned on pulling the trigger I am cooling off because of the virtually all digital interior. For me this car has to be my DD for 10 years minimum and I just don't have that level of trust in the reliability of the screens. I am hoping that the Shelby that is said to be coming in another year or two will have a more traditional interior otherwise I will likely start looking at F-350 or something along those lines.
The digital dash will almost certainly last 10 years they are designed for a minimum life of 20,000 hours or 2.3 years of 100% on time assuming you drive less than 5 and 1/2 hours a day they will last more than 10 years.... Hate that they moved climate control to the displays though.
@@joshuabennett8110 Honestly could never find the appeal of the 350. It usually didn't have the power of the 500 that was usually also available and was only a little cheaper so if you were buy one anyway the 500 was likely with the same budget range.
Beyond the amazing (and often hilarious) reviews, I absolutely LOVE the access and interviews with the engineers themselves. Nobody does it like you guys do. Mark and Jack, you are the best, please keep it up!
Whenever you guys make videos that interview the team members, I’m always amazed whenever I hear about people who’ve been working at Ford, GM, etc for multiple generations…! To me, that’s unfathomable, but I also really respect that. Always good to hear about the people behind the products. Always. Stories do matter, and ideally, real ones.
@@Corsair857 Or a mixture of not wanting to move due to family. But either way, I don't think somebody who works at the same company for 40yrs is pushing the envelope
I love these videos! So much insight into the design and engineering of influential cars. I hope manufacturers take note of you, and the fair exposure you produce for the car nerds lurking the net.
Another excellent presentation all around. Mark’s use of slightly unhinged B-roll is always a treat (Gen z guy and his increasingly hysterical reaction to his phone is just one example). Anyhow, cheers to you both.
Exceptional content, absolutely. I do like that a manual V8 is still available, but if you want to appeal to a younger audience, there are some major financial changes that would have to occur. Cost of living is astronomical in most areas, and with wages stagnating, the likelyhood that a younger person would be able to afford something like this as opposed to a used mustang is low unfortunately. In 1970, a new mustang Mach 1 would cost around $3500, with average income closer to $6000. Being able to spend half a years wages and buy a car outright just isn't how it works anymore. Today the average income is around $55000, which could get you a well optioned GT and leave nothing for food or rent. Younger people tend to make even less than average, so marketing this at them seems like a tough sell. I'm around 28 and work a pretty decent job with a college degree and all, and the only way I was able to feasibly afford a Mustang was because some guy in a Honda Element rear ended me at 70mph in my old car.
The target audience is boomers who want to seem young or hip. They know no young person can afford this. The Ecoboost was made for the Indian market, and pawned off on young ppl as an "affordable mustang" which is nonsense.
@@enron9983it’s priced in the exact same range as the MKV Supra and most of the owners of that car that I met when I owned one were younger late 20s. I bought mine when I was 26. Now I’m considering trading for this new mustang, tell me how they got the marketing wrong again?
Its always funny seeing old farts try to appeal to braindead younger buyers with stupid focus groups. Just make a good car and pull your head out your ass. We all know those parts bin screens and electronic parking brake were mandated by the upper brass but theyll tell you PeOpLe WaNtEd tHeSe UNREAL ENGINEEEE
21:41 it was awkward hearing him talk about how much steering feel you get from the changes they made to the rack. Every S650 review I’ve seen has emphasized the LACK of steering feel.
This. In at least 3 reviews I’ve seen the reviewer demonstrate ON VIDEO just how easy it is to move the steering wheel. There is zero feel and it’s completely overboosted. It’s like Ford made the vehicle for 5 foot tall petite women who lack the strength necessary for steering that has weight and feel. Garbage. No thanks, Ford.
@@noodles9345 lol still very annoying that Ford catered to the lowest common denominator. That’s why I love the C7 and C8. Tight steering and decent feel. BMW made their steering one finger light and it feels downright dangerous at ultra high speeds. Why anyone would buy this over a C8 for just a little bit more money is literally mentally retarded.
Savagegeese's technical assessment of vehicles is probably the best you'll find on UA-cam. Throttle house among others are nowhere near as in depth, and I say that as a huge throttle house fan. I always trust Savages opinion over any other channel.
Looks like and aftermarket s550, infact you could make bodykits for the gt500 that would probbly be one to one. The universe is the limit and they move 2ft...like come on ik you can do better.
I'm always asking myself: would I still want this car if it weren't the latest brand spanking new model? Then I realize that 99% of the appeal was in the FOMO, not the car itself. Great video nonetheless.
@@yungrichnbroke5199the ct5 blackwing is a feat of automotive prowess. There are loads of overpriced non performing cars you could have used for your example, the blackwing ain't one of them
Being a FORD stock,GT350 Mustang owning fanboy I really, really enjoyed this video. Thank you Mark and Jack very much. I loved the Deep Dive with the car development team and all the technical info and cinematography. You are my favorite car reviewers on UA-cam.
A literal ipad as a dashboard. What is up with designers? People want digital gauges sure, but you can absolutely design nice gauge pods as opposed to literally sticking a skinny ipad behind the steering wheel. No to mention this already looks dated lol. Imagine this thing in 10 years? How many critical controls will operate smoothly? They reference studies but garbage in = garbage out. People don't know anything and only look at big shiny new tech with wide eyes like a 5 year old. Once they live with it and see how it actually operates after years of use they'll quickly change their mind. This is where we need to rely on the professionals who have years of industry experience to bring people back down to reality. Didn't VW just go back on their gauge cluster/infotainment system and admit they made a big mistake with the mk8 Golf?
The “digital experience manager” is full of um, hot air. People absolutely want a mix, you just don’t want to do it. If it’s something that will be interacted with while driving, it should be physical so that you don’t need to look at the screen. “But the focus group…” did you give the focus group cars to drive around Ruth? Experiences are very different than opinions on a piece of paper.
@@THESLlCKhe used to do full length reviews on his channel and motortrend. But real reviews aren't for the tiktok kid generation, so he's gotta do what he's gotta do.
It's obvious that the Geese twosome is well-respected by the product managers and engineers at Ford. The content of thsi video shows that you have tremendous respect for the Ford team. This is the car that those wishing to have a C8 would possibly buy. The trunk, back seat, and interior focused on the driver makes this a monkey car that's more practical. You could haul a spouse and two kids while hauling ass, something the C8 can't do. Outstanding work Mark and Jack. You are the very best out there.
Yep. The last gen Coyote, RPG took one, swapped out OPG's for billet ones, threw a turbo kit on it and ran 7's on a FACTORY SEALED motor. Unheard-of 😮 Ford knows what they're doing.
The fact that the designer said they wanted to drop the roof lets me know these people live in their own world. Literally everyone pans the Camaro for its low roof and shit visibility. Its partially why its dead but these guys at Ford have such a hard on for the Camaro that they were going to make the same stupid mistake 😂
If true, that would explain why (especially with this Dark Horse grille and graphics) it looks so much like a Camaro! IMO it was a mistake for Ford to remove a lot of the strong character lines from the S550 which were unmistakably "Mustang". For a car like this, for the buyers it is aimed at, something that is a bit retro is the way to go -- look at the success of the Ford Bronco.
Marketing bullshit spun by people who make money by convincing shareholders that a phrase or moniker will change anything. None of these people care about the engineering, only the sales.
High quality production as always, I really like your mixture of cineastic camerashots, valuable information from first hand sources and a glimpse of comedic entertainment. Well done, guys. Ah, one frank comment: looks like you spun out at 29:44 🙂 Should have done the cut half a second earlier 😊
18:06 I don't think sitting in the car for 50 minutes playing with the screen to figure it out is a compliment. But I guess it's just me lagging behind the fast moving world in my mid 20s.
Chris Walter said all that needed to be said. "We wanted to lower the roof, we wanted to lower the belt line significantly, but that would have meant millions of dollars of investment". Instead of spending the money to do the 7th Gen correctly, Ford half ass'd it and gave it a new name to create artificial interest. They then poured Billions with a B, of dollars of capital into EV.
To be fair, the proportions were the least of the problems with the S550. That the S650 is just a facelift and has the same proportions is not one of its issues IMO. The issues are more around the finer detailing of the body lines, the interior, the steering feel (in the standard model) etc.
All these things would have resulted in a much more expensive vehicle. These engineers are passionate but at the end of the day the company needs people to buy the cars to make money.
You mean the fire hazards that burn less than ICE cars both in absolute and relative terms? The ones whose sales percentage increased by 10x in the past five years? Yeah, nobody buys those. @@ghoulbuster1
$70k is atrocious pricing figure for a non-limited run bespoke Mustang. Seems like manufacturers are pricing all their vehicles as if everyone has a million dollar plus net worth. The 6th gen and prior, you use to be able to get a GT manual for less than $40k. I really believe that we are going to be bailing out all of these Auto companies again when their sales slump and they can't move vehicles. It's going to be 2008-2009 all over again soon.
Yeah, it's crazy. It's not worth getting into such a huge debt. Better to use that money for a down payment on a house. In some parts of the country, two Mustangs will get you a little house.
Its disappointing that Ford doesn't build anything fun and affordable anymore to bring in younger buyers who want more than a truck or an appliance. A whole generation of car enthusiasts is growing up with Ford being the Truck company that still builds some 4000lb over priced Mustangs stuck in a gray area between sports car and muscle car.
@@derekb5749 You're forgetting about all the dealer markups. Last time I went to a Ford dealer, they wanted to charge me almost 50K for a 2022 Mustang GT. Eventually, people are just going to get tired of these prices and just choose public transportation, or motorcycles.
This reminds me of the Lincoln LS launch. Had the opportunity too drive Audi A6, BMW 5 series and Lincoln LS back to back on a closed course. Lincoln LS was a clear winner(yes stacked deck). The engineering team was there and available for questions. They were truly proud of their efforts and should have been. However, as soon as you asked them about the interior, they visibly squirmed and looked pained. All that great engineering that was saddled with an econobox interior. The Ford interviews barely discuss why you buy a muscle car until the mechanical impressions; they spent more time on the friggin screens then they did on things that matter! WTF, Ford. If Mark and Silverback Jack didn't drive it; I would have zero interest in the Dark Horse.
They also fell victim to people who think they can skip maintenance like it's a clapped out Taurus. Electrical problems too but those weren't too common comparatively speaking. Ford's had a long history of doing the right thing at the wrong time and not knowing how to Market it. From the Edsel, to the turbo coupe and SVO, the Lincoln blackwood/Mark LT, the LS. Sometimes they're too late(SVO would've caused big waves in the 70s when the oil crisis popularized Japanese cars) Sometimes they're too early(trucks today sell for 100k. The blackwood would've killed in a market like this)
The front end is atrocious. The regular GT and eco boost aren’t as bad because they don’t have those ugly black plastic eyeliner looking things under the headlights
Its great to see Mustang venturing into sports car dynamics instead of pure muscle but this new generation's price simply strays too far from its humble roots. It's never supposed to be a BMW or AMG rival, it's supposed to be affordable fun.
@@728GT it's insane smh..... I don't see any reason why they couldn't build this car 500lbs lighter, and 20 grand cheaper. It's like they're going to the BMW school of weight reduction.
“I spent 50 minutes playing with the screen” - cuts to video of sg clicking the temp change 10 times before the lag finally realizes he’s touching the screen
Every boomer and gen xer I've seen shits themselves over gadgets in cars that they don't even know how to use (adaptive cruise, LCAS, etc). Most millenials and zoomers don't seem to car about any of that as long as their phone can pair to the radio.
The more time goes by, the more I hate digital screens in cars, especially now that they are just propping them up like an ipad on its side, even for the tach and speedo. Looks cheap and generally hideous and usually a pia.
"We have a lineup for mustangs to suit anyones needs" Yes, A rental car v6, A GT sports car, a 'scat pack' (but not really) trim, A track package, And a crossover that replaces soccarmom minivans of old. Definitely covering all the bases there.
I'm a milennial and grew up with tech and video games and ect like the guy says, and I do not want screens as my gauges. Analog gauges supported by a touch screen infotainment is as good of a balance as you can get, but we must be a minority because according to their data, everybody wants these screens which is unfortunate.😮💨
28:16, I love you guys for pairing engine audio with the music, you get it in tune, and you make it swell a times with the track that's playing, absolutely love it.
Well done boys! The time and effort that go into videos like this is amazing. We're so lucky to get videos like this with access to the teams that build and design these vehicles. Thank you.
I have a Mach 1. Normally would feel a little bite for not having the incremental performance updates from the dark horse. But, the interior changes with those screens make me happy to have purchased the Mach 1 and not the dark horse. Still glad the car is being made though.
They designed their only sports car based on the feedback of interns. And then "I spent 50 minutes in the car messing with settings" Ford's described design process is everything that is awful about the auto industry. The fact they did this on the Mustang of all cars blows my mind
Wow,I'm very impressed with this production, Docufilm 👏 Mark. Your editing skills are amazing and must have taken says to do. Jack, great presenting, too. Thanks, guys. This film should go out on national TV.
Wish more vendors would work with you this way on the halo cars. Really amazing. Like the no question format, where you are guiding the interview but it is offscreen. I think the dark horse looks amazing.
I enjoyed hearing the engineer mention there's more direct feeling steering-- yet Throttle House stated they couldn't trust the car because the steering was completely dead.
Throttle House were driving the regular GT trim and Savageese were testing the Dark horse. It's safe to think that the tunning is different. Hell, the manual transmission unit is different between the two.
Dark Horse prolly has different tuning and also has massive tires in the front which can push an illusion of good steering. You have so much grip up front you don't comprehend the lack of feel until the turn is already over lol
The Throttle House car had Pirelli P Zeros, presumably with soft sidewalls. It could be that the Dark Horse comes with better tyres (like Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3R)? ...Nope a quick Google suggests it has the same P Zero PZ4 tyres. So I'm out of ideas on that one! Perhaps it is just the calibration (and steering rack itself) that is different?
@@DragonKnightX12 They tried all three modes. Unfortunately Ford has the mistaken idea that buyers want pull-drift compensation, which filters out steering feedback: "A software-based pull-drift compensation program that helps keep a vehicle equipped with EPS on track when faced with crosswinds or an uneven driving surface. ... The pull-drift compensation program operates via sensors that constantly measure wheel torque applied by the driver to maintain direction. Ford says the pull-drift compensation program is designed to increase customer satisfaction in steering, suspension, and ride quality surveys by up to 50%." Normally it would be noted that sportscar buyers *do not want* this, but Ford seem to have failed to oblige that! The old Mustang even had a rubber coupling in the middle of the steering column like a Hyundai Elantra (BMW E46 M3s had that too), why you would put a rubber isolator in the steering column on an enthusiast car, I have no idea!
Ive owned Mustangs and Mustang Cobra's since my 1989 GT 5.0. Just bought a new 24 S650 GT premium and have to say, this car just rocks. Car is fast, rides fantastic, handles well, super quiet cabin, killer exhaust note, 27 MPG at 60 MPH on road trips. Okay the iPad dash isn't the best, but it's the future and is in every top tier car these days, Mercedes BMW etc.. I do admit its fun to play with all the dash features and there are alot. Overall, love the car, it's an absolute blast to drive and you will blow the doors off every grocery getter Camery, Rav4, Escape, Prius, Hyundai, Kia, boring blah, blah plastic cars these days.
Did ford ever sit down and ask themselves who they were building this car for? The “younger buyers” can’t afford to eat breakfast, let alone buy an up-priced car.
The screens remind me of a racing sim setup. The graphics and performance of the screen look fine, just the screens themselves don't look great. It is nice the amount of info they seem to provide also, but the previous gen had a better integrated digital display.
For real. The dude did mention the use of Unreal Engine too. No wonder people are talking about the steering feeling empty. It mimics the the weightlessness.
Obviously not existing Mustang fans. It's a biased sample when only the technology-obsessed types would end up in something like a focus group. Only a small number of Mustang people would even sign up for one
I hate to say it but I think the Focus Group was younger and a good chunk women, this is stuff I see in “Mom Car” SUV’s and what not. Younger people tend to prefer screens, over physical controls.
I've been to a few focus group activities and I've never been asked that kind of question. It's more like which GUI you like better. You can probably thank (or hate) me partially for whatever Dodge comes up with next
Great video on a mid car. I love Mustangs (I daily a 2011 Mustang GT) but the S650 is a miss from me. Too expensive, too heavy, and that interior is a crime. Despite all that you guys still make me kinda like the car, which is a testament to the quality of your videos. Keep up the good work!
As we approach the twilight of the gasoline car era, the Mustang has turned into a fine automobile. It's head and shoulders above the earlier generations of this model. We've just gotten a little spoiled. I drive a 2023 Mustang GT 6 speed and I've owned many cars and that includes BMW M automobiles and my Mustang compares very favorably to what I've owned previously.
I too would like a Boss…their values tipped upwards sharply in the past few years. I should have bought one in 2019 when they were sort of at their best price.
They definitely led the audience with their questions on digital vs physical buttons… I’ve never met anyone that actually lived with touch screen solutions that like them. Honestly kills what seemed like a driver focused car.
I'd like to see a better integration of the screens in the future. The facelift itself is seggsy as hell but I'm not the biggest fan of the "slapping on an ipad" trend
Does everything now Have to be a damn video game design for attention span limited kids? There’s nothing wrong with a mix of analog gauges and modern technology.
I think these fucking screens were on a bean counters checklist and when they realized they could get rid of 20 physical buttons they came in their pants and said everything goes into the touch screen. Mission accomplished. 🤮 This is the most irritating trend in the industry.
Great job on the in depth video gents. I appreciate the efforts but wish it was on a worthy car. The exterior designers did an excellent job designing the 2door Honda Accord disguise for the coyote V8. Starbucks order kiosk in font of the steering wheel! Awesome. Getting feedback from generations that don’t drive or own cars, chefs kiss….. Instead of making the car what actual buyers want, they SN95 Bruce Jenner-ed another generation of Mustang and send the NA pony car to its executive committee lined grave. At least Millennials and gen z get their own Mustang II! I’ll end it with the cherry on top for me…skinny jeans and bar stools…..mangina camel toe…can’t unsee that. 😅
I have a 22 SS 1LE.. Paid $48000 for it brand new.. This car is not worth another $20-$25,000 bucks, No way no how.. At this price you are well into ZL1 money, or an nice spec of a C8.. I have always been a Ford guy but after the debacle I went through with my 18 S550, I will never own another Mustang.. The motor ticked like crazy, left me stranded with 2 broken fuel pumps, and the 10r80 shit the bed at 18k miles.. Got it Lemon lawed.. Which I was happy about after driving my SS1LE Manual for a bit over a year its been so perfect.. Handles 10x better than the 18 GT PP1.. and the Tremec TR6060 is amazing, and so is the diff.. Such a steal for under $50k..
A couple months back I was going to put a deposit on one. I didn't because although it's a very emotional vehicle, its $70K+ loaded price is too rich for what it is.
Great video guys. I'd be curious to know what the demographics are for the average "higher-end" Mustang owner. The design team seemed to put a lot of value in what millenials and Gen Z'ers wanted in the car, but if the buying demographic skews towards older folks who can afford a $70K car, has Ford set themselves up for failure with such a digital-heavy interior?
That's the problem when you have such old people working on development of these cars. They merely theorize what a young person might want or be able to do. HIs example of young people spending time setting up phones and iPads in cars before driving was ridiculous. Being younger doesn't mean you're still not buying this car because you want a screaming V8. It means you want Screens!!
1500 a year will sell out and have wait lists. Likely more Gen Xers than Millenials, but millenials being in their late 30s ...a good chunk unmarried, a good chunk resigned to renting and/or living in condos the rest of their lives...will look to splurge on something that brings them joy. Why not a Mustang?
Wonderful video! Very informative as always. Would LOVE to see a send off for the Camaro on an in depth SS 1LE review! Alpha chassis, tremec, and great steering feel deserves it lol
I currently own a 2019 BMW M2 Comp and a 2004 Z06. During track days I bounce between the two since they provide completely different driving experiences. I get better times in the M2, however the raw experience in the Z06 provides more smiles. Unfortunately, the M2 is reaching 60K miles and I feel its time to say goodbye and change up the ride. I would consider the Dark Horse but know the greedy Ford dealerships will mark up the first wave. I am seeing new manual tran 2023 Mach 1’s going for under MSRP, I am thinking the Mach 1 would be the better value at this time, thoughts?
I also own a 2019 M2C (and a Tesla Model 3 Performance). Keep the M2C. It’s probably the last “classical” BMW they’ll make. New M2 is like 3900 lbs and that’s close to the curb weight of my M3P. My suggestion is to trade in your vette for a C8, and if the M2C must go, get a Cayman.
Personally I wasn't too sure about the screens,im 51 an love analog , but actually sitting in the vehicle. It actually feels pretty good, it doesn't seem out of place, and blends in to the dash very well. I do you have the premium so I have the one big screen. An of course 6 speed manual! Because who buys an automatic mustang 😂
We asked a focus group of people who can't afford the car how we should design it, and they strongly preferred "this".
This
thing is, there are lots of people who will buy cars that they can't afford.
This x2
Camaro listened too much to enthusiasts in my opinion...and it's on the chopping block.
@tri3pleagent That isn't why it is on the chopping block though. GM is going full stup- I mean full EV, and the Camaro doesn't fit into that plan.
Mustangs engineer: “we don’t really have any prominent undercuts on the vehicle”
Mark: cuts video to prominent undercut on the rear of the vehicle 😂
Reminds me of the Canada Pearson airport video where the boss lady of the airport is lying through her teeth on how the flights are doing great and improved and the cameraman pans to the flight board literally right above her that shows almost every flight delayed or cancelled.
All about that CO2.
And the doors lol
Can't look past the insanely shitty looking black plastic all over the car. Making the focus group out of a bunch of zoomers was a terrible idea. This will age very poorly
The iPads stuck to the dashboard have got to be a joke.
So happy Ford went with dual screens and the innovative 10 degree cant towards the driver. I have a similar setup in my cubicle and after 8-10 hours staring at them I can’t wait to spend just a little more time looking at a similar setup on my commute home. Refreshing.
I wish I didn't read this comment. Sad but true.
Touche
I’m sensing some sarcasm
"The focus groups really liked the Acer computer monitor setup as it reminded them of working from home during the pandemic."
😂 😂 😂 But has Unreal Engine graphics. And a shiny new shift knob. 😂😂😂
I've said it elsewhere, but the reason you get this exceptional access to the engineers and designers is because you actually listen to what they say and tell their story.
Please keep doing what you do and granting us access to the inner workings of the industry.
They reference the data a lot when it comes to user preferences, the one thing I’m curious on is if the data comes from people who buy mustangs or if it’s a general review board from within the company. I personally haven’t met anyone that says they like digital climate control versus physical
I feel like it’s just a plausibly deniable excuse of a story that let’s them justify what’s actually a cost-cutting measure, at least from a PR perspective
Agree, climate controls in a screen is a bad idea 100% of the time. Incredible car otherwise
Ya they should learn from other automotive makers who have learned from the mistake of going all digital for HVAC etc. Oh well, they’ll learn soon enough.
The only people they should have been polling were previous mustang owners and enthusiasts who would buy it.
This looks like a video game simulator on the inside.
I always take the story behind the badge design into consideration when I'm car shopping
I know exactly what you mean. One should always lead with the story behind the logo change.
The only people I can imagine saying they prefer entirely screen based buttons have never lived with one. Everyone I know who has lived with entirely screens prefers the mixed style (buttons for climate, seat, and audio)
Yup. I called BS the moment she said they prefer all digital or all physical but not mixed.
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford. Modern Ford "Muh twenty-somethings who can't afford or don't want a Mustang, what do you want?"
I feel like they just asked a bunch of people questions with out actually making them to use different configurations first.
@@Lazirus951 Prototyping is too expensive when you can rely on people feelz for free I guess.
I don't think their "clinics" involved changing the climate settings driving on a busy city.
So great to see Silverback Jack back in his natural environment.
The editing at 29:35 with the Shakeycam and music drop made the whole video for me.
Silver-baku Jaku
Raising the T-levels
Should’ve said habitat. That’s a bar 😅😂
Ooooh ooooh ooooh!!!
Thanks to videos like this we can get some answers to what the hell were they thinking when they did this, i really appreciate that. Its interesting that Ford designers managed to capture so much of the current camaros design in the 'all new mustang'. I also old enough to remember the first time the car industry tried going to all digital guages in the late 80's and early 90's.. it didn't go that well. I'll be stunned if any of these new digital guages last more than 10 years without problems.
As a Charger owner: I'm going to give one of these a hard look as soon as my credit recovers.
😂
Based 💀
A Charger owner with good credit is an oxymoron.
@@RobertLeBlancPhotowell once he has good credit, he won’t have a charger anymore. 😅
@nomenclature9607 Yeah, all four of them.
No idea how those screens passed any sort of legit litmus test unless they only asked 21 year old influencers. At the very least make them shaped like gauges or something or maybe seamless under the dash but to just have them sitting there like an afterthought is a travesty. The issue with the styling approach on the inside is that it will quickly look dated because tech advances so quickly. The interior is a complete miss on this car.
Ford does have a love of stupidass influencers...🤔
Yea, agreed. This is sexy on a showroom floor right now to young buyers that can't afford it.
Imagine what this interior is gonna look like second hand after 2 years good lord
Looks like 2011 android tablets
Man you must be an old fogie. The screens will always be up to date vs boring dials that never change. Even the original model S screens look modern because of software updates, vs a 20 year old car. You guys are funny and weird as hell.
@@mementomori29231 mate I’m 30+ it’s not a modern frameless intergrated screen like a Tesla, other then the dark horse for its tremec the GT and ecoboost models are gonna depreciate like hell with these Kia tablets
Can't wait to see some new content on UA-cam with mustangs flooring it 100% while pulling out of Cars And Coffee events and hitting pedestrians, curbs and other cars. It's been a while.
Bad drivers drive all brands. Just there is so many more mustangs than others because how good they are.
😂
@@marcharris4176Honestly, I think it's just a factor of how cheap Mustangs are, considering they make over 400hp. That's a lot of car for not a lot of money! Very often it's someone's first high horsepower rwd vehicle. What do you really expect, at that point?
There was a jaw dropping amount of discussion from the Ford employees about things that change absolutely nothing about the driving experience…
"Here is my personal story that doesn't mention anything specific about the car."
LOL notice the front badge looks like its just injection moulded with the grill. LOL they digging far to save dollar.
This is what's wrong with society. NYC and Hollyweird run the media and world, and tell my kids what they should like, and how to act. Oh, and we all know that it's the 5 rich folks running the media. How to be a slave.
Good lord this is boring listening to them.
I guess car people don't buy cars anymore. No hoods up around neighborhoods anymore.
2 themes. 30 millennial and Gen z. Progressive and modern. Omg, have you had discussions with any of them?
*watches a video called "why this car exists"*....*complains its a video about why the car exists and not the driving experience*
Exactly. Seems like they literally spent their budget to make it a better rental car.
Very disappointed to hear the engineers chose tacky screens to target a "younger audience" that cant even afford this car in its base form.
I'm sure cost cutting was the real reason for those screens
Very disappointed that you don't understand that there are *literally* millions of "younger" people who have wealthy parents or who can just afford this.
I come from poor-as-hell parents, but my first adult car was a new 2014 Audi S4 that I treated myself to at 24 years old.
That thing was $59,590. The new Dark Horse is only $57,970 (bargain).
Most of the young people I worked with had cars ranging from new Mustang GT's to Mercedes C 63 AMG's.
The narrative that all young people are broke (or don't have wealthy parents) is simply false.
As a "younger audience" member, I'm not a fan of the ipad on a dash strategy.
@@tim3172 If you think they aren't going to put 15k of ADM on this thing you're smoking crack
I'm digging the big screens. I remember when people moaned and whined about big screen phones, how small screens were perfect. Now all phones are big because they sell. Same thing here. You all can whine all you want but you'll be the minority.
Love the access that you get in these videos. Thanks for sharing the designer/engineer perspective on why these cars exist. Great stuff as always.
If he was Musk's darling, he would have the access of e-ville.
Really, you guys do great work when it comes to covering cars. And, special edition videos like this are amazing and superior to anything else out there. You should be really proud videos like this.
100% agree - amazing work
SG is second to none at this. Production value is insane and tbh manufacturers should (if they are not) be paying them for this kind of work to show off their cars
Totally agree.
Hey everybody send this to your buddies, get them views, hence $$ to continue.
First class Mark & Co. hang in there.
Maybe focus on ICE drivers cars past and present. It’s your heritage and strength.
Focus limits your market but avoids putting you up against the personalities of the moment.
Focus is your future. Pick a segment and COMMAND IT.
I'm not going to write off this concept entirely, but.........the more companies that do this kind of stuff, the more thankful I am for how analogue my miata is.
You're the only youTuber who puts out quality content that dives into the engineering, vision and future of unique cars like these. Thank you for your work and passion!
You can tell the exterior design engineer would have had it a different way. I would have liked to see that retro mockup
The retro look is corny
the 2008 mustangs and camaros looked great. Maybe not original and a little disproportioned, but they're great. The challenger still looks amazing.@@d_all_in
It looks exactly like the last one
@@d_all_innot if done right like the Challenger, I’d take a Hellcat over a corny Dark Horse any day
@@BRAINFxck10 ok
I was really hot on getting a Dark Horse but now as my savings get to the point where I planned on pulling the trigger I am cooling off because of the virtually all digital interior.
For me this car has to be my DD for 10 years minimum and I just don't have that level of trust in the reliability of the screens. I am hoping that the Shelby that is said to be coming in another year or two will have a more traditional interior otherwise I will likely start looking at F-350 or something along those lines.
Get the F350. Fucking beautiful and I’m a Ram guy.
The digital dash will almost certainly last 10 years they are designed for a minimum life of 20,000 hours or 2.3 years of 100% on time assuming you drive less than 5 and 1/2 hours a day they will last more than 10 years.... Hate that they moved climate control to the displays though.
How about the Shelby 350GT?
@@joshuabennett8110 Honestly could never find the appeal of the 350. It usually didn't have the power of the 500 that was usually also available and was only a little cheaper so if you were buy one anyway the 500 was likely with the same budget range.
18:15 "I literally had so much fun in there I didn't think to start the car" That's the damn problem nowadays.
This is the video that finally made me sign up for your patreon. THIS type of content is what the car worlds needs. You're doing god's work.
❤
I got to view this video for free lol
@@JacesOwnWorld You completely missed his point. Lol
@@overbuiltlimited if you've ever had the misfortune of reading his other comments, this one comes as no surprise haha.
Beyond the amazing (and often hilarious) reviews, I absolutely LOVE the access and interviews with the engineers themselves. Nobody does it like you guys do. Mark and Jack, you are the best, please keep it up!
really? i got bombarded by tone deaf corporate speak for 30 min.
@@cwx8 same like a robot trying to convivence me it has my best interest...lol
Whenever you guys make videos that interview the team members, I’m always amazed whenever I hear about people who’ve been working at Ford, GM, etc for multiple generations…! To me, that’s unfathomable, but I also really respect that. Always good to hear about the people behind the products. Always. Stories do matter, and ideally, real ones.
Nepotism is great
I would be so embarrassed to work at Ford or GM tbh lol. They are so passionate but they just produce so much crap it's amazing.
it looks like too many designers were involved
Probably explains why none of these companies build cars anymore
@@Corsair857 Or a mixture of not wanting to move due to family. But either way, I don't think somebody who works at the same company for 40yrs is pushing the envelope
I love these videos! So much insight into the design and engineering of influential cars. I hope manufacturers take note of you, and the fair exposure you produce for the car nerds lurking the net.
Another excellent presentation all around. Mark’s use of slightly unhinged B-roll is always a treat (Gen z guy and his increasingly hysterical reaction to his phone is just one example). Anyhow, cheers to you both.
Exceptional content, absolutely. I do like that a manual V8 is still available, but if you want to appeal to a younger audience, there are some major financial changes that would have to occur. Cost of living is astronomical in most areas, and with wages stagnating, the likelyhood that a younger person would be able to afford something like this as opposed to a used mustang is low unfortunately.
In 1970, a new mustang Mach 1 would cost around $3500, with average income closer to $6000. Being able to spend half a years wages and buy a car outright just isn't how it works anymore. Today the average income is around $55000, which could get you a well optioned GT and leave nothing for food or rent. Younger people tend to make even less than average, so marketing this at them seems like a tough sell. I'm around 28 and work a pretty decent job with a college degree and all, and the only way I was able to feasibly afford a Mustang was because some guy in a Honda Element rear ended me at 70mph in my old car.
The target audience is boomers who want to seem young or hip. They know no young person can afford this. The Ecoboost was made for the Indian market, and pawned off on young ppl as an "affordable mustang" which is nonsense.
oh theyll be inside this mustang...because it'll be their uber 😂
Ummm that's a dumb comment, this isn't for people on a budget.... Buy a Ecoboost for that...
@@enron9983it’s priced in the exact same range as the MKV Supra and most of the owners of that car that I met when I owned one were younger late 20s. I bought mine when I was 26. Now I’m considering trading for this new mustang, tell me how they got the marketing wrong again?
Its always funny seeing old farts try to appeal to braindead younger buyers with stupid focus groups. Just make a good car and pull your head out your ass.
We all know those parts bin screens and electronic parking brake were mandated by the upper brass but theyll tell you PeOpLe WaNtEd tHeSe UNREAL ENGINEEEE
SO excited to watch this. Thanks you SG for routinely putting out such excellent content!
21:41 it was awkward hearing him talk about how much steering feel you get from the changes they made to the rack. Every S650 review I’ve seen has emphasized the LACK of steering feel.
Is it different in the dark horse, I heard it might be different
This. In at least 3 reviews I’ve seen the reviewer demonstrate ON VIDEO just how easy it is to move the steering wheel. There is zero feel and it’s completely overboosted. It’s like Ford made the vehicle for 5 foot tall petite women who lack the strength necessary for steering that has weight and feel. Garbage. No thanks, Ford.
@hkfan4596 Well a lot of women do buy Mustangs so it wouldn't be surprising lol.
@@noodles9345 lol still very annoying that Ford catered to the lowest common denominator. That’s why I love the C7 and C8. Tight steering and decent feel. BMW made their steering one finger light and it feels downright dangerous at ultra high speeds. Why anyone would buy this over a C8 for just a little bit more money is literally mentally retarded.
Savagegeese's technical assessment of vehicles is probably the best you'll find on UA-cam. Throttle house among others are nowhere near as in depth, and I say that as a huge throttle house fan. I always trust Savages opinion over any other channel.
Thanks so much SavageGeese, I blast ropes to your videos daily ❤
As a Camaro fan... I have to say that this design direction was a good choice. Nice job, Ford!
😂 Touche.
Looks like and aftermarket s550, infact you could make bodykits for the gt500 that would probbly be one to one.
The universe is the limit and they move 2ft...like come on ik you can do better.
agree, they've designed a fantastic next gen camaro
@@THESLlCK 👏👏👏👏👏👏
The hood, and the whole side profile is absolutely screaming Camaro! Hell, the vent inserts in the hoods are exactly the same as the ‘19-‘24.
I'm always asking myself: would I still want this car if it weren't the latest brand spanking new model? Then I realize that 99% of the appeal was in the FOMO, not the car itself. Great video nonetheless.
Fomo is driving these insane prices including the black wings. Yeah I said it. CT5-V black wing is severely overpriced.
That’s a great question . I’ll use it
@@yungrichnbroke5199the ct5 blackwing is a feat of automotive prowess. There are loads of overpriced non performing cars you could have used for your example, the blackwing ain't one of them
@@yungrichnbroke5199all cars are overpriced as is the nature of our economic system. Competition breeds extinction.
FoMoCo
Don’t ever stop making videos. Everyone of them is appreciated
Being a FORD stock,GT350 Mustang owning fanboy I really, really enjoyed this video. Thank you Mark and Jack very much. I loved the Deep Dive with the car development team and all the technical info and cinematography. You are my favorite car reviewers on UA-cam.
I always knew I was different. I like a mix of physical and digital controls.
Yeah literally the best option is poo poo'd by some losers in a focus group.
A video absolutely worth the effort--thank you, Mark, Jack, and team. I'm not even a Mustang guy, but have been eagerly awaiting this one.
Love the Retrowave music in the background 🤙
A literal ipad as a dashboard. What is up with designers? People want digital gauges sure, but you can absolutely design nice gauge pods as opposed to literally sticking a skinny ipad behind the steering wheel. No to mention this already looks dated lol. Imagine this thing in 10 years? How many critical controls will operate smoothly?
They reference studies but garbage in = garbage out. People don't know anything and only look at big shiny new tech with wide eyes like a 5 year old. Once they live with it and see how it actually operates after years of use they'll quickly change their mind. This is where we need to rely on the professionals who have years of industry experience to bring people back down to reality.
Didn't VW just go back on their gauge cluster/infotainment system and admit they made a big mistake with the mk8 Golf?
Amen
Isn't the MK8 still the garbage touch screen shit?
Amen
The “digital experience manager” is full of um, hot air.
People absolutely want a mix, you just don’t want to do it.
If it’s something that will be interacted with while driving, it should be physical so that you don’t need to look at the screen.
“But the focus group…” did you give the focus group cars to drive around Ruth? Experiences are very different than opinions on a piece of paper.
I just love you guys so much. 😂
This Dark Horse seems like a great direction for Mustang. More handling focused and I’m all for it.
you've never done a car review ever. You just ADHD swoosh your hands over plastic junk and it's revolting
@@THESLlCK goddamn lol
@@THESLlCKhe used to do full length reviews on his channel and motortrend. But real reviews aren't for the tiktok kid generation, so he's gotta do what he's gotta do.
It's obvious that the Geese twosome is well-respected by the product managers and engineers at Ford. The content of thsi video shows that you have tremendous respect for the Ford team.
This is the car that those wishing to have a C8 would possibly buy. The trunk, back seat, and interior focused on the driver makes this a monkey car that's more practical. You could haul a spouse and two kids while hauling ass, something the C8 can't do.
Outstanding work Mark and Jack. You are the very best out there.
I just spent 4+ hours in a debreif on how important this video is and how good the coyote v8 engines are (they are built Ford tough).
Thanks for being a man for 4 hours
Yep. The last gen Coyote, RPG took one, swapped out OPG's for billet ones, threw a turbo kit on it and ran 7's on a FACTORY SEALED motor. Unheard-of 😮 Ford knows what they're doing.
@@terrancebulong4573 cough 6.0 powerstroke cough ;)
@@terrancebulong4573aldowelds took a stock motor gen 2 and went mid-high 7’s with it. Coyotes are the best motor Ford has put out in the modern era.
@@ralkia international, not built in house like the new bulletproof high output 6.7 making 1200ftlbs easily.
Best 2024 Darkhorse Mustang review I have seen.
The fact that the designer said they wanted to drop the roof lets me know these people live in their own world. Literally everyone pans the Camaro for its low roof and shit visibility. Its partially why its dead but these guys at Ford have such a hard on for the Camaro that they were going to make the same stupid mistake 😂
*roof AND belt line, not just the roof
@@390fe451 they need to lower the damn seat rails. Sitting in the damn car like im on a bar stool
@@728GTthat's the Mustang driving position, it's for old people.
If true, that would explain why (especially with this Dark Horse grille and graphics) it looks so much like a Camaro! IMO it was a mistake for Ford to remove a lot of the strong character lines from the S550 which were unmistakably "Mustang". For a car like this, for the buyers it is aimed at, something that is a bit retro is the way to go -- look at the success of the Ford Bronco.
It's not the roof on the Camaro that's the problem, it's the stupid high beltline. Thank government regulations for that BS.
yeah, ain’t going to capture a younger audience with a $70k car lol
Right? Why are they trying to capture a younger audience when you need at least decent 6 figures to be able to comfortably afford the car.
Marketing bullshit spun by people who make money by convincing shareholders that a phrase or moniker will change anything. None of these people care about the engineering, only the sales.
Exactly what I was thinking. The vast majority of people you actually see driving $70k Mustangs are middle-aged dudes cause they can afford it.
Those are the 2.3L lol
100k after markups
High quality production as always, I really like your mixture of cineastic camerashots, valuable information from first hand sources and a glimpse of comedic entertainment.
Well done, guys.
Ah, one frank comment: looks like you spun out at 29:44 🙂 Should have done the cut half a second earlier 😊
18:06 I don't think sitting in the car for 50 minutes playing with the screen to figure it out is a compliment. But I guess it's just me lagging behind the fast moving world in my mid 20s.
Yeah. I just want to get in the car and go, not spend an hour fidding with screens.
Chris Walter said all that needed to be said. "We wanted to lower the roof, we wanted to lower the belt line significantly, but that would have meant millions of dollars of investment". Instead of spending the money to do the 7th Gen correctly, Ford half ass'd it and gave it a new name to create artificial interest. They then poured Billions with a B, of dollars of capital into EV.
Money that will be wasted when none buys those fire hazards on wheels.
To be fair, the proportions were the least of the problems with the S550. That the S650 is just a facelift and has the same proportions is not one of its issues IMO. The issues are more around the finer detailing of the body lines, the interior, the steering feel (in the standard model) etc.
Yup
All these things would have resulted in a much more expensive vehicle. These engineers are passionate but at the end of the day the company needs people to buy the cars to make money.
You mean the fire hazards that burn less than ICE cars both in absolute and relative terms? The ones whose sales percentage increased by 10x in the past five years? Yeah, nobody buys those. @@ghoulbuster1
got to love when you spin out at 29:43 but with the power of editing it seems you recovered! lol nice.
They definitely lost it😅
This video really explains why I will never get rid of my 2012 BOSS 302
$70k is atrocious pricing figure for a non-limited run bespoke Mustang.
Seems like manufacturers are pricing all their vehicles as if everyone has a million dollar plus net worth.
The 6th gen and prior, you use to be able to get a GT manual for less than $40k.
I really believe that we are going to be bailing out all of these Auto companies again when their sales slump and they can't move vehicles. It's going to be 2008-2009 all over again soon.
Ford is already in trouble with their Mach Es and lots full of $100k trucks.
Yeah, it's crazy. It's not worth getting into such a huge debt. Better to use that money for a down payment on a house. In some parts of the country, two Mustangs will get you a little house.
Its disappointing that Ford doesn't build anything fun and affordable anymore to bring in younger buyers who want more than a truck or an appliance. A whole generation of car enthusiasts is growing up with Ford being the Truck company that still builds some 4000lb over priced Mustangs stuck in a gray area between sports car and muscle car.
This is a dumb statement, this is the top trim. The base GT is still available and cheaper.
@@derekb5749 You're forgetting about all the dealer markups. Last time I went to a Ford dealer, they wanted to charge me almost 50K for a 2022 Mustang GT. Eventually, people are just going to get tired of these prices and just choose public transportation, or motorcycles.
This reminds me of the Lincoln LS launch. Had the opportunity too drive Audi A6, BMW 5 series and Lincoln LS back to back on a closed course. Lincoln LS was a clear winner(yes stacked deck). The engineering team was there and available for questions. They were truly proud of their efforts and should have been. However, as soon as you asked them about the interior, they visibly squirmed and looked pained. All that great engineering that was saddled with an econobox interior. The Ford interviews barely discuss why you buy a muscle car until the mechanical impressions; they spent more time on the friggin screens then they did on things that matter! WTF, Ford. If Mark and Silverback Jack didn't drive it; I would have zero interest in the Dark Horse.
They also fell victim to people who think they can skip maintenance like it's a clapped out Taurus. Electrical problems too but those weren't too common comparatively speaking. Ford's had a long history of doing the right thing at the wrong time and not knowing how to Market it. From the Edsel, to the turbo coupe and SVO, the Lincoln blackwood/Mark LT, the LS. Sometimes they're too late(SVO would've caused big waves in the 70s when the oil crisis popularized Japanese cars) Sometimes they're too early(trucks today sell for 100k. The blackwood would've killed in a market like this)
"We wanted it to look like a Camaro, so we made a shit front end and mated it with the Mach E rear end, then threw a bunch of tablets inside" - Ford.
The front fascia is very similar to the v6 Camaro but a little more aggressive, lmao.
The front end is atrocious. The regular GT and eco boost aren’t as bad because they don’t have those ugly black plastic eyeliner looking things under the headlights
Its great to see Mustang venturing into sports car dynamics instead of pure muscle but this new generation's price simply strays too far from its humble roots. It's never supposed to be a BMW or AMG rival, it's supposed to be affordable fun.
The price is especially disrespectful given the car is just a warmed over S550.
It's finally caught up with what a Camaro could already do and they are making you pay a hefty premium to do so..
@@KC-lg8qf and it weighs 4 thousand pounds
@@728GT it's insane smh..... I don't see any reason why they couldn't build this car 500lbs lighter, and 20 grand cheaper. It's like they're going to the BMW school of weight reduction.
Making it more of a sports car raised the price. You got what you asked for.
“I spent 50 minutes playing with the screen” - cuts to video of sg clicking the temp change 10 times before the lag finally realizes he’s touching the screen
"We asked Gen Z and Millennials how to design the car"
Me as a millennial: Yeah....Not a great idea
Yeah I think I’m officially a boomer now I’m repulsed by all this tech in modern cars
Yep, bs social media focus group mentality is exactly what led Bud Light to make the massive mistakes they did.
We asked dumbasses that don't drive cars to design the car* FTFY
Every boomer and gen xer I've seen shits themselves over gadgets in cars that they don't even know how to use (adaptive cruise, LCAS, etc). Most millenials and zoomers don't seem to car about any of that as long as their phone can pair to the radio.
I think the GT350 front end still looks the best
Love the Mustang nameplate but the price is insane.
Even the base GT starts at 42k. The era of relatively cheap V8 power is sadly over.
Would have been nice if the base GT had a $39k starting price, but there are not many 480hp cars in the low $40k range...
especially for the power.
@@bryangillis1839and Ford is well aware that Camaro and Dodge V8s are gone.
@@TheMarine015we’re back in the 3V days where Ford had no competition so didn’t care to push it.
The more time goes by, the more I hate digital screens in cars, especially now that they are just propping them up like an ipad on its side, even for the tach and speedo. Looks cheap and generally hideous and usually a pia.
So mustang went from one of the most old school analogue cars to an edgy anime gamer playstation on wheels.
I'm guessing they're looking for a younger driver.
@@jjlad5037ford looks and namesake, Lincoln price. Not a smart move.
This is by far the greatest car review channel I've ever seen
Another excellent presentation all around.
❤
I can't believe they turned the undercover agent from Cars 2 into a real car.
I swear to god, if that dude says “lean into” one more fucking time…
"We have a lineup for mustangs to suit anyones needs"
Yes, A rental car v6, A GT sports car, a 'scat pack' (but not really) trim, A track package, And a crossover that replaces soccarmom minivans of old. Definitely covering all the bases there.
I'm a milennial and grew up with tech and video games and ect like the guy says, and I do not want screens as my gauges. Analog gauges supported by a touch screen infotainment is as good of a balance as you can get, but we must be a minority because according to their data, everybody wants these screens which is unfortunate.😮💨
As always, highest production quality car-related content on this platform. Well done guys!
28:16, I love you guys for pairing engine audio with the music, you get it in tune, and you make it swell a times with the track that's playing, absolutely love it.
Well done boys! The time and effort that go into videos like this is amazing. We're so lucky to get videos like this with access to the teams that build and design these vehicles. Thank you.
I have a Mach 1. Normally would feel a little bite for not having the incremental performance updates from the dark horse. But, the interior changes with those screens make me happy to have purchased the Mach 1 and not the dark horse. Still glad the car is being made though.
Agree ! 15 to 2023 much better looking interior!
The Mach 1 (HP) is the best N/A S550 made. The GT500 being ultimate Mustang ever made.
Just wait lol just wait.
@@TheMsr47gaming Huh? Is Ford adding jet propulsion to the Dead Horse or something?
@@ClickbaitMotorsportsif equipped
with the Tremec manual transmission and Handling package
As a previous owner of multiple Camaros, I like this new design😜
They designed their only sports car based on the feedback of interns.
And then "I spent 50 minutes in the car messing with settings"
Ford's described design process is everything that is awful about the auto industry. The fact they did this on the Mustang of all cars blows my mind
Just remember that they're in business to sell cars to as many people as possible, and most buyers aren't actually enthusiasts.
Nothing makes me wake up faster then Ford marketing explanations and big touchscreens talks!
FOCUS GROUPS
@@728GT Did those focus groups mention how they like the Ford Focus more than the Ford Escape? 🤔
Wow,I'm very impressed with this production, Docufilm 👏 Mark. Your editing skills are amazing and must have taken says to do. Jack, great presenting, too. Thanks, guys. This film should go out on national TV.
Mustang isn't a living room, it's a sports car. Big screens are nothing but a distraction.
Wish more vendors would work with you this way on the halo cars. Really amazing. Like the no question format, where you are guiding the interview but it is offscreen. I think the dark horse looks amazing.
I'm excited for this. I'm bricked up off this and it's not even the full video
Simping for sure
Dude!🧐
Same. I’ve had a hard on for the past hour.
Calm down sir !
I enjoyed hearing the engineer mention there's more direct feeling steering-- yet Throttle House stated they couldn't trust the car because the steering was completely dead.
Throttle House were driving the regular GT trim and Savageese were testing the Dark horse. It's safe to think that the tunning is different. Hell, the manual transmission unit is different between the two.
Dark Horse prolly has different tuning and also has massive tires in the front which can push an illusion of good steering. You have so much grip up front you don't comprehend the lack of feel until the turn is already over lol
@@Aki_Lesbrincoya but the engineer said the faster steering ratio is across all models.
The Throttle House car had Pirelli P Zeros, presumably with soft sidewalls. It could be that the Dark Horse comes with better tyres (like Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3R)? ...Nope a quick Google suggests it has the same P Zero PZ4 tyres. So I'm out of ideas on that one! Perhaps it is just the calibration (and steering rack itself) that is different?
@@DragonKnightX12 They tried all three modes. Unfortunately Ford has the mistaken idea that buyers want pull-drift compensation, which filters out steering feedback: "A software-based pull-drift compensation program that helps keep a vehicle equipped with EPS on track when faced with crosswinds or an uneven driving surface. ... The pull-drift compensation program operates via sensors that constantly measure wheel torque applied by the driver to maintain direction. Ford says the pull-drift compensation program is designed to increase customer satisfaction in steering, suspension, and ride quality surveys by up to 50%."
Normally it would be noted that sportscar buyers *do not want* this, but Ford seem to have failed to oblige that! The old Mustang even had a rubber coupling in the middle of the steering column like a Hyundai Elantra (BMW E46 M3s had that too), why you would put a rubber isolator in the steering column on an enthusiast car, I have no idea!
Ive owned Mustangs and Mustang Cobra's since my 1989 GT 5.0. Just bought a new 24 S650 GT premium and have to say, this car just rocks. Car is fast, rides fantastic, handles well, super quiet cabin, killer exhaust note, 27 MPG at 60 MPH on road trips. Okay the iPad dash isn't the best, but it's the future and is in every top tier car these days, Mercedes BMW etc.. I do admit its fun to play with all the dash features and there are alot. Overall, love the car, it's an absolute blast to drive and you will blow the doors off every grocery getter Camery, Rav4, Escape, Prius, Hyundai, Kia, boring blah, blah plastic cars these days.
Did ford ever sit down and ask themselves who they were building this car for?
The “younger buyers” can’t afford to eat breakfast, let alone buy an up-priced car.
ZL1 and Hellcat price with only Mustang GTish power. Their target market can be described as SUCKERS!
@@mikedaleiden7725 nobody buys ZL1 though
The screens remind me of a racing sim setup. The graphics and performance of the screen look fine, just the screens themselves don't look great. It is nice the amount of info they seem to provide also, but the previous gen had a better integrated digital display.
None of it looks appealing. Especially the UI
For real. The dude did mention the use of Unreal Engine too. No wonder people are talking about the steering feeling empty. It mimics the the weightlessness.
Good to see Tim get the nod from the mustang group after being responsible for cars such as the Fiesta ST. He’s the best of the bunch.
I could watch the driving impressions over and over and over and over again. Superb video
Who exactly did they focus group that told them they preferred all digital vs physical and digital mixed????
Guarantee it was internal and the people that know how an interior should be constructed were too busy being slammed with work 😂
Millennials and younger, I'd imagine. To their credit, keeping the climate controls visible at the bottom of the screen at all times is a great idea.
Obviously not existing Mustang fans. It's a biased sample when only the technology-obsessed types would end up in something like a focus group. Only a small number of Mustang people would even sign up for one
I hate to say it but I think the Focus Group was younger and a good chunk women, this is stuff I see in “Mom Car” SUV’s and what not. Younger people tend to prefer screens, over physical controls.
I've been to a few focus group activities and I've never been asked that kind of question. It's more like which GUI you like better. You can probably thank (or hate) me partially for whatever Dodge comes up with next
Absolutely beautiful video. You guys have perfected the docu-style!
Unbelievable! 29:41 they blew out the drift and edited it out! Ford reigned them in!!
Yeah, there was a spin out
Great video on a mid car. I love Mustangs (I daily a 2011 Mustang GT) but the S650 is a miss from me.
Too expensive, too heavy, and that interior is a crime. Despite all that you guys still make me kinda like the car, which is a testament to the quality of your videos. Keep up the good work!
Like 60% of the interior looks like my 2020 GT/CS, my next mustang will be a 12 BOSS302
As we approach the twilight of the gasoline car era, the Mustang has turned into a fine automobile. It's head and shoulders above the earlier generations of this model. We've just gotten a little spoiled. I drive a 2023 Mustang GT 6 speed and I've owned many cars and that includes BMW M automobiles and my Mustang compares very favorably to what I've owned previously.
I too would like a Boss…their values tipped upwards sharply in the past few years. I should have bought one in 2019 when they were sort of at their best price.
@@billisdewillis5 same man, I was torn between a Boss and an S550 as a daily and I picked the S550 cause I wanted a better interior.
They definitely led the audience with their questions on digital vs physical buttons… I’ve never met anyone that actually lived with touch screen solutions that like them. Honestly kills what seemed like a driver focused car.
God the double screens looks terrible 😂
🤓
I'd like to see a better integration of the screens in the future. The facelift itself is seggsy as hell but I'm not the biggest fan of the "slapping on an ipad" trend
This car IS the future and they made zero effort to get the screens right.
Does everything now Have to be a damn video game design for attention span limited kids? There’s nothing wrong with a mix of analog gauges and modern technology.
Some other brands had better integration in like 2015.....and now on the all new and improved models they have shit squares
I think these fucking screens were on a bean counters checklist and when they realized they could get rid of 20 physical buttons they came in their pants and said everything goes into the touch screen. Mission accomplished. 🤮 This is the most irritating trend in the industry.
15:06 the most violent shifter boot installation that I have ever seen.
Great job on the in depth video gents. I appreciate the efforts but wish it was on a worthy car. The exterior designers did an excellent job designing the 2door Honda Accord disguise for the coyote V8. Starbucks order kiosk in font of the steering wheel! Awesome. Getting feedback from generations that don’t drive or own cars, chefs kiss….. Instead of making the car what actual buyers want, they SN95 Bruce Jenner-ed another generation of Mustang and send the NA pony car to its executive committee lined grave. At least Millennials and gen z get their own Mustang II! I’ll end it with the cherry on top for me…skinny jeans and bar stools…..mangina camel toe…can’t unsee that. 😅
I'm gen z and I hate this crap
@@THESLlCK Exactly. Your not gonna like it, nobody liked the Mustang II. Nobody. But ol' Ford had the pulse of the people in mind when they made it.
@@VacFink This will probably go down with the mustang II as one of the worst. Even the foxbody is more memorable
I have a 22 SS 1LE.. Paid $48000 for it brand new.. This car is not worth another $20-$25,000 bucks, No way no how.. At this price you are well into ZL1 money, or an nice spec of a C8.. I have always been a Ford guy but after the debacle I went through with my 18 S550, I will never own another Mustang.. The motor ticked like crazy, left me stranded with 2 broken fuel pumps, and the 10r80 shit the bed at 18k miles.. Got it Lemon lawed.. Which I was happy about after driving my SS1LE Manual for a bit over a year its been so perfect.. Handles 10x better than the 18 GT PP1.. and the Tremec TR6060 is amazing, and so is the diff.. Such a steal for under $50k..
A couple months back I was going to put a deposit on one. I didn't because although it's a very emotional vehicle, its $70K+ loaded price is too rich for what it is.
“We don’t have starvation issues” lol had to get that in there.
Great video guys. I'd be curious to know what the demographics are for the average "higher-end" Mustang owner. The design team seemed to put a lot of value in what millenials and Gen Z'ers wanted in the car, but if the buying demographic skews towards older folks who can afford a $70K car, has Ford set themselves up for failure with such a digital-heavy interior?
That's the problem when you have such old people working on development of these cars. They merely theorize what a young person might want or be able to do.
HIs example of young people spending time setting up phones and iPads in cars before driving was ridiculous.
Being younger doesn't mean you're still not buying this car because you want a screaming V8. It means you want Screens!!
Lmao they have no clue who they are trying to appeal too, lost development team all around. Typical mustang
@@KC-lg8qf Exactly, the two screens lack styling. They should at least take the 911's interior as reference.
1500 a year will sell out and have wait lists. Likely more Gen Xers than Millenials, but millenials being in their late 30s ...a good chunk unmarried, a good chunk resigned to renting and/or living in condos the rest of their lives...will look to splurge on something that brings them joy. Why not a Mustang?
i like how at 29:40 you can clearly Jack loop the car out but the in-car is totally fine haha. Editing makes us all good drivers.
I purposely did, only two people caught it.
@@savagegeese someone at the apex must've been waving a banana and the gorilla got target fixated
Wonderful video! Very informative as always. Would LOVE to see a send off for the Camaro on an in depth SS 1LE review! Alpha chassis, tremec, and great steering feel deserves it lol
I currently own a 2019 BMW M2 Comp and a 2004 Z06. During track days I bounce between the two since they provide completely different driving experiences. I get better times in the M2, however the raw experience in the Z06 provides more smiles. Unfortunately, the M2 is reaching 60K miles and I feel its time to say goodbye and change up the ride. I would consider the Dark Horse but know the greedy Ford dealerships will mark up the first wave. I am seeing new manual tran 2023 Mach 1’s going for under MSRP, I am thinking the Mach 1 would be the better value at this time, thoughts?
Honestly the dark horse is the better car but i cant make the argument its 10-15k better
I think the Mach 1 with Handling Package is your best choice.
Mid $50s vs $70s plus dealer markup seems like a no brainer. Both will need track focused base mods if you get even semi serious anyway.
If you had that kind of money I really would have considered the GT350!
I also own a 2019 M2C (and a Tesla Model 3 Performance). Keep the M2C. It’s probably the last “classical” BMW they’ll make. New M2 is like 3900 lbs and that’s close to the curb weight of my M3P. My suggestion is to trade in your vette for a C8, and if the M2C must go, get a Cayman.
Personally I wasn't too sure about the screens,im 51 an love analog , but actually sitting in the vehicle. It actually feels pretty good, it doesn't seem out of place, and blends in to the dash very well. I do you have the premium so I have the one big screen. An of course 6 speed manual! Because who buys an automatic mustang 😂
I didn’t know Mark have a brother 😂
It’s Mahk from Boston.