Excellent job Mr.T. I like the look of the dyno results with the S&S pipes over the D&D. Like in the video with the customer that he is stoked says it all. I guess on stock 131 heads the CR512 is the best cam because it doesn't look like the CR540 makes that much more. Now, up-ing the heads to a 1+ over values and larger intake I seen the 540 pushing 160hp and 150tq. So the stock heads are just going to flow what they flow no matter what cam you put in there. Again Excellent job Mr. T and congratulations to Tim on the build.
Thanks mate! Yes the customer is over the moon with the results. More compression would have really helped this out to make a few more numbers. You are right though, the CR512 is the best bolt in cam for the stock 131 kit. The customer was seriously considering going with the 512 as he has seen & ridden bikes running that exact combo. In the end, he couldn't bring himself to be like everyone else hahaha.
@@MasterTechMiller lol yes I guess that's true about Harley-Davidson riders. They all might be a harley but they all don't look the same or run the same. Thank God right. 😆
John at Cycle Fanatix just had a stock clutch failure on his 22 Road Glide. The failure happened with simple 107 stage II build pushing less than 120 RWHp.
Thank you for making and sharing the video; well done! Nice build with excellent parts selection, specially the cr540-2 cam and the S&S 2-1 Sidewinder exhaust system. I was impressed with the curves (specially Torque) with these parts coupled with the HD-SE 114/117-to-131 big bore top end kit. Curious to know if this exhaust pipe had catalyst or not? Presuming it was the non-catalyst version? I'm running the S&S 2-1 Sidewinder with catalyst on my 2021 Road Glide Special and it runs fine, sounds good (not too loud; I feel it's just about the right amount of volume, specially when just cruising down the highway, but has some "bark" when I whack the throttle), looks good, etc. My current upgrades/mods to my '21RGS, RDRS equipped: Stock compression (10.5:1) 114 with a complete S&S 465c Cam Chest Kit installed; Fuel Moto #3956 Air Cleaner (similar to HD-SE Ventilator AC but wider, and stock outer cover fits); Dynojet PV3b Tuner with map by Fuel Moto. Added HD Fan to Oil Cooler and Dakota Digital Gauges (including engine oil temperature sender). Bike runs very well, strong low end torque (from just off-idle) and midrange, with plenty of power to 5,000+ rpm (works for me as my style of riding is mostly in the 1750-3250 rpm range with an occasional run to 4250-4500+ rpm) and achieves very good fuel economy cruising at 70-75mph on the highway here (average 46.4mpg U.S.). Planning to (future) bore/hone cyclinders and fit Carillo 4.125" Bore 10.75:1 forged pistons, for a bump in compression (from 10.5:1 to 10.75:1) and displacement (from 114 cu.in. to 120 cu. in.). Might retain the S&S 465c Cam for awhile and/or consider bit more Cam (perhaps S&S 475c or the new Comp Cams/Moonshine Harley 485c). Curious what you might suggest for a Cam (for a conservative rider) for a Touring Harley with 120 cu. in. M8, 10.75:1 cr., stock heads and then lightly modified Heads (Level A?)? Thanks again! Tom Miller, Southwest region U.S.A.
Nice planning and research mate. I strongly recommend the Cyclerama CR480 for your application. It provides a great bump up in low end torque that carries seamlessly through the mid range before slowly tapering off at the top end. Power delivery is very nice too and the cam sounds great at idle too. The slight bump in compression wont hurt it either.
Mike it’s so funny you said that you’ve never seen a clutch fail, mine did a couple weeks ago. I blew my trans last year so I was nice to it this year, until I wasn’t, then the clutch let go on literally the first romp of the gas. I limped the bike home but couldn’t let the rpm’s get over 2400 or it would slip horrible. You can put the bike in gear and burp the throttle and it won’t move 😂
That's unfortunate that you've had clutch issues. I have drag raced heaps of different M8 bikes all with factory clutches & baskets. If you've had problems with clutches slipping or burning out then maybe your clutch adjustment is incorrect an causing it to be sitting slightly disengaged when it warms up. If that's all ok, I would suggest maybe trying a different riding style towards the clutch. We've ran 143ci bikes with over 180ft/lbs on stock clutches and baskets with no issues. Obviously the clutch springs are upgraded to the 1275nm springs from Screamin Eagle. There is a reason Harley won't normally cover clutches under warranty as the margin for operator error and abuse is far too great to rule out manufacturing defects or faults.
@@MasterTechMiller for sure no one to blame but myself, it weird because the clutch was fine then almost completely went all at once. It’s the price we pay when having a little fun
All Harley cylinders are, stock 107 cylinders right up the 131 cylinders. It's generally less than half a thou. HD & Screamin Eagle advertise their kits as 'bolt on'. The tolerances are taken into account during engine assembly when setting ring gap. (At least I do that anyways) In really high output hi comp builds we ALWAYS have the cylinders torque plate honed.
@@MasterTechMiller That’s what I was thinking, thanks. I want to do a 131” build soon so I’ll make sure the 131 cylinder are torque plated honed. Thanks for your expertise.
Just my opinion from my little experience.... The exhaust on the softail is shorter. I saw a road glide with a 131 and Khrome Werks exhaust made 157hp/163tq. My low rider s with a 131 and a Thrashin exhaust made 144hp/153tq.... same cam on both engines (TTS250), same dyno, same modifications, just the exhaust was different. I wanted 150hp. I may get 2 or 3 more hp with S&S roller rockers but it won't get to 150hp... To me, I don't think is worth spending $1,000+ for 6hp... I'll enjoy my LRS the way it is right now! Just my two cents... 😎 Hey Miller... Do you have any suggestion on how to get 150hp with my engine? 😅
Hi Ryan... I don't want to remove the heads to increase compre$$ion, at least for now, definitively in the future and that would include a bigger cam too!
You may be a little restricted at the moment as the stock comp ratio of the 131 kit is 10.7:1. The factory 114ci rolls off the production line at 10.5:1 so there is definitely room for improvement there. I see that you said you don't want to remove the heads at this stage, but unfortunately that's most likely the only way you'll make the 150hp mark with your current setup. You could do cam swap to the CR540 which is actually bigger than the CR540-2. You will most likely hit the 150hp mark without a doubt however you will lose a substantial amount of bottom end grunt in doing so. You would definitely need to bump the comp ratio up to at least 11.0:1 when using the CR540 and you'll make very close to 160hp
Nice content and awesome build. When you changed the compensator ramp did you notice some clicking in the primary until the chain adjuster adjusted. I put it on mine and it went away after riding it warmed up. However in cold start I can still here a little clicking until the engine warms up. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you again
I've never had or heard of anything like you are describing before. Perhaps not the shim plates and splines shaft for the ramp were not lubricated properly when assembled? Your chain tension could be just between positions at this time. It may need to just click up to the next tooth. You can induce the tensioner to jump up the next tooth but giving the the throttle some sharp roll on & roll offs. Don't be too rough when doing it but, aggressive enough to just help load up and unload the primary chain so the tensioner shoe can jump up
Any concerns with that cam profile being hard on the valve train? Wouldn't that torque sequence on the compensator bolt indicate it's a torque to yield spec, thus should have a new bolt?
Great video. On the auto primary chain tensioner, have you ever seen them ratchet up too tight? You said you have never seen one fail but ever ran into this with your builds?
No. The only time I've seen the shoe at the end of its ratchet travel was on a bike that had just 150000km which is obviously due to the chain stretching over time.
Can you say where you have the cranks trued and welded. Bigger con rod bearings, does that mean bigger crank pin? Have you ever used Harley's lefty bearings or are stock OK.. Or have they been revised anyway..?..(previous build)..great video by the way.. 👍🇦🇺One more question. Who makes the compensator ramp. Is it SE.
We have the cranks trued and welded by guy near Brisbane QLD. The rod bearings are slightly oversized from the factory bearing on the rod big end. Crank pin is swapped out for a solid crank plug. The compensator ramps are through CycleRama or TTS
Love ya work mate the way you go about your business is top notch have your ever done the WOODS 22XE CAM before just curious not many people have done the 22xe only the 22x
The only difference is a 68mm throttlebody over the 64mm Throttlebody on the 131 & the stroke is 4.625 on the 135 VS the 4.500 on the 131. The SE517 Camsahft, cylinder heads, pistons & cylinders are all the same.
Do u think this cam is better on the 131 then the cr 512 ? I have a 131 and that same came cr540-2 and power vision tuner. Stealth air cleaner and fuel moto rtx 2-1 pipe. Cycle rama done the work and it makes 147 hp and 159 torque on their dyno.
The CR 540-2 Cam will always make more power than the CR 512. I guess it just comes down to what the customer wants & how they want it to perform. Not to make any excuses but where I work & tune the bikes is 2200ft above sea level so I have less air to work with. I have repeatedly seen gains of roughly 8% - 10% in peak numbers when running the same bike & tune at sea level.
@@tymarsh6135 the 540-2 would benefit from a bump up in compression to a touch over 11.0:1 The SE 131ci kit is 10.7:1 Factory 114ci engine's are 10.5:1 as a comparison.
The CNC ported Screamin' Eagle heads that come in the kit have high lift valve springs already installed from factory so there is no need to change these ones. They are available to purchase separately through the SE catalogue aswell if you want them for your stock heads that have been worked
What do you think the best air cleaner is for a se 131 kit after market cam? Trying to have something over 150hp not sure if the stock st cleaner is gonna cut it
You get down with your performance build.
Thank you for the great content.
Tommy, absolutely love these videos. Good details and professional camera work. Thank you for sharing. Peace
Thanks mate!
One of my favorite videos to watch again and again
Thanks for watching
Dr Miller , always a pleasure to see you
Thanks for watching
Built to be rid'in not hidden ❗
Keep Living the F#@KING Dream ❗
Safe travels 🙏♥️🐾🐾
Awesome work Tom! Killing it!
Absolute beast
Excellent job Mr.T. I like the look of the dyno results with the S&S pipes over the D&D. Like in the video with the customer that he is stoked says it all. I guess on stock 131 heads the CR512 is the best cam because it doesn't look like the CR540 makes that much more. Now, up-ing the heads to a 1+ over values and larger intake I seen the 540 pushing 160hp and 150tq. So the stock heads are just going to flow what they flow no matter what cam you put in there. Again Excellent job Mr. T and congratulations to Tim on the build.
Thanks mate! Yes the customer is over the moon with the results.
More compression would have really helped this out to make a few more numbers. You are right though, the CR512 is the best bolt in cam for the stock 131 kit.
The customer was seriously considering going with the 512 as he has seen & ridden bikes running that exact combo. In the end, he couldn't bring himself to be like everyone else hahaha.
@@MasterTechMiller lol yes I guess that's true about Harley-Davidson riders. They all might be a harley but they all don't look the same or run the same. Thank God right. 😆
John at Cycle Fanatix just had a stock clutch failure on his 22 Road Glide. The failure happened with simple 107 stage II build pushing less than 120 RWHp.
Thank you for making and sharing the video; well done! Nice build with excellent parts selection, specially the cr540-2 cam and the S&S 2-1 Sidewinder exhaust system. I was impressed with the curves (specially Torque) with these parts coupled with the HD-SE 114/117-to-131 big bore top end kit. Curious to know if this exhaust pipe had catalyst or not? Presuming it was the non-catalyst version?
I'm running the S&S 2-1 Sidewinder with catalyst on my 2021 Road Glide Special and it runs fine, sounds good (not too loud; I feel it's just about the right amount of volume, specially when just cruising down the highway, but has some "bark" when I whack the throttle), looks good, etc.
My current upgrades/mods to my '21RGS, RDRS equipped: Stock compression (10.5:1) 114 with a complete S&S 465c Cam Chest Kit installed; Fuel Moto #3956 Air Cleaner (similar to HD-SE Ventilator AC but wider, and stock outer cover fits); Dynojet PV3b Tuner with map by Fuel Moto. Added HD Fan to Oil Cooler and Dakota Digital Gauges (including engine oil temperature sender).
Bike runs very well, strong low end torque (from just off-idle) and midrange, with plenty of power to 5,000+ rpm (works for me as my style of riding is mostly in the 1750-3250 rpm range with an occasional run to 4250-4500+ rpm) and achieves very good fuel economy cruising at 70-75mph on the highway here (average 46.4mpg U.S.). Planning to (future) bore/hone cyclinders and fit Carillo 4.125" Bore 10.75:1 forged pistons, for a bump in compression (from 10.5:1 to 10.75:1) and displacement (from 114 cu.in. to 120 cu. in.). Might retain the S&S 465c Cam for awhile and/or consider bit more Cam (perhaps S&S 475c or the new Comp Cams/Moonshine Harley 485c). Curious what you might suggest for a Cam (for a conservative rider) for a Touring Harley with 120 cu. in. M8, 10.75:1 cr., stock heads and then lightly modified Heads (Level A?)?
Thanks again! Tom Miller, Southwest region U.S.A.
Nice planning and research mate.
I strongly recommend the Cyclerama CR480 for your application. It provides a great bump up in low end torque that carries seamlessly through the mid range before slowly tapering off at the top end.
Power delivery is very nice too and the cam sounds great at idle too.
The slight bump in compression wont hurt it either.
@@MasterTechMiller Thank you for recommendation of the Cyclerama CR480 cam for my combination; much appreciated! Nice Dyno testing & tuning!
Mike it’s so funny you said that you’ve never seen a clutch fail, mine did a couple weeks ago. I blew my trans last year so I was nice to it this year, until I wasn’t, then the clutch let go on literally the first romp of the gas. I limped the bike home but couldn’t let the rpm’s get over 2400 or it would slip horrible. You can put the bike in gear and burp the throttle and it won’t move 😂
I'm not sure he meant you can't burn up the clutch plates, he said the clutch assembly itself wont break .
You can kill most clutch packs with abuse .
That's unfortunate that you've had clutch issues. I have drag raced heaps of different M8 bikes all with factory clutches & baskets.
If you've had problems with clutches slipping or burning out then maybe your clutch adjustment is incorrect an causing it to be sitting slightly disengaged when it warms up.
If that's all ok, I would suggest maybe trying a different riding style towards the clutch.
We've ran 143ci bikes with over 180ft/lbs on stock clutches and baskets with no issues. Obviously the clutch springs are upgraded to the 1275nm springs from Screamin Eagle.
There is a reason Harley won't normally cover clutches under warranty as the margin for operator error and abuse is far too great to rule out manufacturing defects or faults.
@@MasterTechMiller for sure no one to blame but myself, it weird because the clutch was fine then almost completely went all at once. It’s the price we pay when having a little fun
Another great video! Thanks!
What cam 515 or 540 in my 128 . The 515 is back orders .
Do you think the newest version of the SE valve springs are good for 540 lift cams? Thanks. Great info in the vids!
Are you located in California? Nevermind that question lol. I noticed you are in Australia.
Great content 👌
Thank you
Very very precise work👍
Cheers!
Have you found that the 131” cylinder have been out of round? Nice build thanks for the content.
All Harley cylinders are, stock 107 cylinders right up the 131 cylinders.
It's generally less than half a thou.
HD & Screamin Eagle advertise their kits as 'bolt on'. The tolerances are taken into account during engine assembly when setting ring gap. (At least I do that anyways)
In really high output hi comp builds we ALWAYS have the cylinders torque plate honed.
@@MasterTechMiller That’s what I was thinking, thanks. I want to do a 131” build soon so I’ll make sure the 131 cylinder are torque plated honed. Thanks for your expertise.
No worries. Good luck with your build
I would love to try this on my softail build 131/cr540 combo but with a thrashin AR pipe (should be similar to the bobcat)
Just my opinion from my little experience.... The exhaust on the softail is shorter. I saw a road glide with a 131 and Khrome Werks exhaust made 157hp/163tq. My low rider s with a 131 and a Thrashin exhaust made 144hp/153tq.... same cam on both engines (TTS250), same dyno, same modifications, just the exhaust was different. I wanted 150hp. I may get 2 or 3 more hp with S&S roller rockers but it won't get to 150hp... To me, I don't think is worth spending $1,000+ for 6hp... I'll enjoy my LRS the way it is right now! Just my two cents... 😎 Hey Miller... Do you have any suggestion on how to get 150hp with my engine? 😅
@@pachy44 awesome thanks for that, have you tried increasing your compression ratio for the 131 they’re typically a little low
Hi Ryan... I don't want to remove the heads to increase compre$$ion, at least for now, definitively in the future and that would include a bigger cam too!
You may be a little restricted at the moment as the stock comp ratio of the 131 kit is 10.7:1. The factory 114ci rolls off the production line at 10.5:1 so there is definitely room for improvement there.
I see that you said you don't want to remove the heads at this stage, but unfortunately that's most likely the only way you'll make the 150hp mark with your current setup.
You could do cam swap to the CR540 which is actually bigger than the CR540-2. You will most likely hit the 150hp mark without a doubt however you will lose a substantial amount of bottom end grunt in doing so. You would definitely need to bump the comp ratio up to at least 11.0:1 when using the CR540 and you'll make very close to 160hp
Thanks for the advice!!!
Nice content and awesome build. When you changed the compensator ramp did you notice some clicking in the primary until the chain adjuster adjusted. I put it on mine and it went away after riding it warmed up. However in cold start I can still here a little clicking until the engine warms up. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you again
I've never had or heard of anything like you are describing before.
Perhaps not the shim plates and splines shaft for the ramp were not lubricated properly when assembled?
Your chain tension could be just between positions at this time. It may need to just click up to the next tooth. You can induce the tensioner to jump up the next tooth but giving the the throttle some sharp roll on & roll offs. Don't be too rough when doing it but, aggressive enough to just help load up and unload the primary chain so the tensioner shoe can jump up
@@MasterTechMiller Awesome 👌. Thank you for responding and for the priceless information. Blessings 🙌
Any concerns with that cam profile being hard on the valve train?
Wouldn't that torque sequence on the compensator bolt indicate it's a torque to yield spec, thus should have a new bolt?
Great video. On the auto primary chain tensioner, have you ever seen them ratchet up too tight? You said you have never seen one fail but ever ran into this with your builds?
No. The only time I've seen the shoe at the end of its ratchet travel was on a bike that had just 150000km which is obviously due to the chain stretching over time.
Hi Tommy, Great step by step process. I have a fat boy 114 2021 . Is it possible to apply the same process in that bike. Be well.
Yes absolutely. However it would be beneficial to discuss your options & expected outcome for your build. Are you in Australia?
Nice moves 👊
Cheers
Can you say where you have the cranks trued and welded. Bigger con rod bearings, does that mean bigger crank pin? Have you ever used Harley's lefty bearings or are stock OK.. Or have they been revised anyway..?..(previous build)..great video by the way.. 👍🇦🇺One more question. Who makes the compensator ramp. Is it SE.
We have the cranks trued and welded by guy near Brisbane QLD. The rod bearings are slightly oversized from the factory bearing on the rod big end. Crank pin is swapped out for a solid crank plug.
The compensator ramps are through CycleRama or TTS
@@MasterTechMiller thanks for your reply. I think this information will be of use to your other viewers as well. Happy building! 👍🇦🇺
Great Video bike looks Great.
Was that the 9" straight Thrashin Riser ?
Cheers
8inch I believe
Love ya work mate the way you go about your business is top notch have your ever done the WOODS 22XE CAM before just curious not many people have done the 22xe only the 22x
Thanks mate.
No I've only done the 22x before aswell
Stumbled across this channel........ awesome content 👏
Thanks for watching 👍
Great vids man! What do you use as primary fluid?
I use the Harley Formula Plus, or Spectro.
Is the S&S Sidewinder that you used the version with or without the catalyst in the muffler?
Without
great video tommy i run the s&s 540 and love it 148 hp 155 torque with it on
my 128.keep up with the videos
Great results mate!
MHP did my 128. Got 124 hp and 137 tk
What the combo?
What are the specs on this 540-2 cam. Im trying to get my corrected compression ratio where it needs to be. Thanks
540-2 intake close 42.5 ABDC
Intake 245 duration
Exhaust 263 duration
Hey mate what is the difference between the CR540 & the CR540-2 cams?
The Torque comes in a little earlier with the 540-2
just wondering what the cost of one of these builds would be
If you already have a pipe, air filter upgrade & tuning device the cost is Australian dollars is roughly $8500 ride in ride out with a full Dyno Tune
Master tech; what about the 135 crate engine??
The only difference is a 68mm throttlebody over the 64mm Throttlebody on the 131 & the stroke is 4.625 on the 135 VS the 4.500 on the 131.
The SE517 Camsahft, cylinder heads, pistons & cylinders are all the same.
@@MasterTechMiller yeah ok.
Not sure to go with 135 or a 128 APE
@Thor Out you will have to swap out the cam from the the 135 engine if you want to make any decent power.
Do u think this cam is better on the 131 then the cr 512 ? I have a 131 and that same came cr540-2 and power vision tuner. Stealth air cleaner and fuel moto rtx 2-1 pipe. Cycle rama done the work and it makes 147 hp and 159 torque on their dyno.
The CR 540-2 Cam will always make more power than the CR 512. I guess it just comes down to what the customer wants & how they want it to perform.
Not to make any excuses but where I work & tune the bikes is 2200ft above sea level so I have less air to work with. I have repeatedly seen gains of roughly 8% - 10% in peak numbers when running the same bike & tune at sea level.
@@MasterTechMiller makes sence. I'm down here in Florida
Would you recommend the CR540-2 over the CR512 for HP numbers?
Would that cam need any adjustment to compression ratio?
@@tymarsh6135 the 540-2 would benefit from a bump up in compression to a touch over 11.0:1
The SE 131ci kit is 10.7:1
Factory 114ci engine's are 10.5:1 as a comparison.
What’s your thoughts on the 540-2 cam in a se 128?
Its a great cam that provides a little more torque than the 540.
It is a noisey cam though.
I wouldn't go much over 11.0:1 in comp with the 540-2
Do u know the comp in those se128 by chance or do u get to pick
The SE 119, 122, 124, 128 kits are all 11.0:1 I'm pretty sure.
@@MasterTechMiller thank u would that cam u would recommend in a 128 like I mentioned
Did you have to use adjustable pushrods?
Yes.
@Master Tech Miller awesome thanks I'm preparing for the bill lol
What was the numbers on this build pls
@@augdog25 what numbers?
The Hp and torque hard to see it in the picture
Oh please change that annoying asf music mate I enjoy your builds but not the f’ing generic music
@@brutalbrital Noted!
Obviously you upgraded the valve springs with that huge Cam. What brand do you use? Thanks for the great info and video
The CNC ported Screamin' Eagle heads that come in the kit have high lift valve springs already installed from factory so there is no need to change these ones.
They are available to purchase separately through the SE catalogue aswell if you want them for your stock heads that have been worked
Thank You!
What do you think the best air cleaner is for a se 131 kit after market cam? Trying to have something over 150hp not sure if the stock st cleaner is gonna cut it
The SE Ventilator Extreme is the highest flowing filter I know of