Piolín from Reencarnación and La Bruja from Parabellum had an earlier approach. They predate him by like 3 years on releases, but they were writing their music since like '84.
Interesting! Checked them both out, Parabellum I think I enjoy a bit more, but cool to hear this nevertheless. This really makes me feel that all the controversies in Norway gave the music an unfair amount of attention, when S. America had plenty of bands that went unnoticed. I hope that S. America and Central America become the future of extreme metal, its about time. Fact is a lot of European bands do better in that part of the world than the US or Europe, Therion is a known example of this. Especially with all the politics getting involved it seems its about time for the next wave of extreme metal to come from that area, be it Brazil or Mexico.
I always wondered where Snorre Ruch got his inspiration ever since I found out about how much of an unsung hero he is to the second wave. It makes perfect sense that Snorre Ruch had influences such as these that were outside of metal. If you were to only try to find his inspiration from metal, you would think he created this black metal riffing style in a vacuum.
There’s a great documentary made by NPR where he talks about how he demonstrates how he came up with the sound. Check it out! Best documentary on bm I’ve seen so far
He said on an interview that he got this playing style while trying to play Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet piece. Which result in tremolo picking on minor chords, that he moved around and boom here we are. ua-cam.com/video/njjM0CPRt74/v-deo.html Here is the documentary
Finally Snorre get some recognition. I am Scandinavian. Started in 1991 with Ablaze In the Northern Sky as young teen. I first discovered the brilliance of Snorre in 1999 on the double album with Emperor vs Thorns and vice versus. It blew me away. I started to hear the old Demos with Satyr on vocals. I had personal fall out with Satyr in 2005. Though Snorre did brilliant follow up album later on, follow up to the split CD with Emperor. You hear the classic elements ba k in 1999. Also he was central in the murder of you know who with Varg. A central figure of many scenarios. Finally someone formulated these thoughts laying dormant within me for long times. Appreciate it. Nice and innovative video here.
I remember watching an interview with Euronymus, and the guy was talking about how they invented the thing (with Snorre) taking the 'Romeo and Juliet' theme arpeggio - up Bm then down Cm - and then speeding the pickin. Pretty simple, bue the feeling is very very special
If Snorre wants to claim it, I'm not gonna argue. People are gonna dig and piss and moan regardless and claim some more obscure band was the first because that's what music geeks do.
Another great source is Snorres part in the Helvete documentary where he breaks down the riff style and demonstrates as well as his patreon page is just simply incredible for any fan of early Norwegian black metal.. great video and thanks for bringing more attention Snorres way, definitely unrated musician!!
I get weird and have to research everything I get into, and I feel vindicated, now - Snorre! but this takes it even farther, I didn't see the classical connection. you always push it deeper and now I have to get in there, too. respect.
Agreed. There’s a part in the middle of that song that involves a lot of tremolo picking high on the neck. That song’s instrumentation reminds me of a lot of Black Metal guitar playing. I have argued with people who unironically think that Mercyful Fate are not truly a black metal. That song is my best counter argument.
The tremolo picking was made by Euronymous, that's a fact, even Snorre said that it was him - probably that's why Fenriz claims both of them. One thing is definitely true, early Mayhem (De mysteriis), and Thorns are VERY similar. But its hard to tell who inspired who the most and who came up with the style, the Grymryk demo was recorded in june 1991, but by that time, Mayhem already had a few songs from the Mysteriis album done (Live in leipzig was made in 1990, BEFORE the Grymryk demo, and it already had Pagan Fears, Funeral Fog, Buried by Time and Dust and Freezing Moon.) Burzum also had its first demo in 1991 i think or even before that (I know Burzum sounds different than Mayhem, but he also used "black metal techniques" like tremolo picking, even though this arpeggio stuff with minor chords wasnt really a Burzum thing). I know this video is about Snorre and Euronymous and not Burzum, but I'ts a quite interesting question how did Vikerbes "figured out" these techniques, did he learnt it from other bands or he was also experimenting and figured out the same things as Euro and Snorre at the same time? Not realistic. So it's really hard to tell who inspired who, but in the scene, most people says that it was Snorre. (Hellhammer also said that Euronymous's guitar style completely changed after he met Snorre.). Snorre himself always sais that they both inspired each other.
@@wyattxhim You're right, there are Thorns riff's in DMDS (though tbh I only hear one single riff, in From The Dark Past), but that album was recorded in 1992. But what I'm still wondering about is that who was the one who had that style earlier. What we know is that the first Thorns (well the band was called Stigma Diabolicum back then) demo ever, Luna de noctornus was recorded in 1989, at Christmasbreak (according to Metallum). But from interviews with Dead we also know that in 1989 3 or 4 songs from De Mysteriis was already made. So I'm still not completely sure who started it before, we don't know when Euronymous and Snorre first met, but most guys from the scene says it was Snorre (as I mentioned, even Hellhammer), so I guess it was him :D. I think the truth is Euro had the tremolo picking and Snorre had that minor chords-arpeggios stuff. Anyways, it's clear that Euronymous was very-very fond of Snorre's style. According to Attila, the next Mayhem album after DMDS would've been written by Snorre! (cuz Euro felt "burnt out")
oh, the surf rock stuff is purely a meme. What gets scandinavians rockin is some hot sand and waves. But yeah. You can say the type of riffing style comes from spanish guitars and such.
I watched something recently where Snorre said his riff style was actually shown to him by Varg (I can't remember what/where it was, so no link). ??? As for the BM tremolo picking style, I'd say surf music, and the balalaika playing did it first, albeit without the "blackened" elements, and I was listening to Jefferson Airplane earlier and 'The Last Wall Of The Castle' features a similar style.
One thing is that not clear to me is that Snorre W. Ruch claims he came up with the riff in 89 when he was with Mayhem but Metal Archives says that he was only in that band from 1992 to 1993. Is MA wrong or am I missing something?
Nice PSEUDOGOD tshirt dude, I have it too ;) those who know know that Snorre was the man. THORNS’s Trøndertun demo is LEGENDARY. Quintessential Black Metal.
Hey Whyatt go check out Thorns album Stigma Diabolicum and listen to some of the riffs not only Snorre did created the Black Métal riff before Euronymus but it precede most black métal riffs used today as well
Okay I’m so weirded out… this UA-cam guy looks so much like me it’s unreal 😂😂😂 I was like “fuck did I upload my opinion pieces on UA-cam when I was drunk and just didn’t remember”
@@prowlingfrost5588 yea ik that call tiamat's first three albums black metal,I even call morbid angel's abominations of desolation black metal But mayhem's deathcrush sounds like death/grind with the lyrics being more about gore
Discovering Thorns for the first time blew me away. Incredible demos.
They're crap.
@@sothis1448 Nah, garbage like Sarcofago is what's really crap.
@@spritefroggy you are a false metaller.
Piolín from Reencarnación and La Bruja from Parabellum had an earlier approach. They predate him by like 3 years on releases, but they were writing their music since like '84.
Interesting! Checked them both out, Parabellum I think I enjoy a bit more, but cool to hear this nevertheless. This really makes me feel that all the controversies in Norway gave the music an unfair amount of attention, when S. America had plenty of bands that went unnoticed. I hope that S. America and Central America become the future of extreme metal, its about time. Fact is a lot of European bands do better in that part of the world than the US or Europe, Therion is a known example of this. Especially with all the politics getting involved it seems its about time for the next wave of extreme metal to come from that area, be it Brazil or Mexico.
I always wondered where Snorre Ruch got his inspiration ever since I found out about how much of an unsung hero he is to the second wave. It makes perfect sense that Snorre Ruch had influences such as these that were outside of metal. If you were to only try to find his inspiration from metal, you would think he created this black metal riffing style in a vacuum.
There’s a great documentary made by NPR where he talks about how he demonstrates how he came up with the sound. Check it out! Best documentary on bm I’ve seen so far
@@Mihai_9999 Do you have the name by any chance? Couldn't find it.
He said on an interview that he got this playing style while trying to play Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet piece.
Which result in tremolo picking on minor chords, that he moved around and boom here we are.
ua-cam.com/video/njjM0CPRt74/v-deo.html
Here is the documentary
@@Dexusaz its called helvete its a norwegian documentary. One of the best ones ive seen on bm
Finally Snorre get some recognition. I am Scandinavian. Started in 1991 with Ablaze In the Northern Sky as young teen. I first discovered the brilliance of Snorre in 1999 on the double album with Emperor vs Thorns and vice versus. It blew me away. I started to hear the old Demos with Satyr on vocals. I had personal fall out with Satyr in 2005. Though Snorre did brilliant follow up album later on, follow up to the split CD with Emperor. You hear the classic elements ba k in 1999. Also he was central in the murder of you know who with Varg. A central figure of many scenarios. Finally someone formulated these thoughts laying dormant within me for long times. Appreciate it. Nice and innovative video here.
Man Snorre needs to make more music. Bring it,dude!
I remember watching an interview with Euronymus, and the guy was talking about how they invented the thing (with Snorre) taking the 'Romeo and Juliet' theme arpeggio - up Bm then down Cm - and then speeding the pickin. Pretty simple, bue the feeling is very very special
That Cenotaph album is the best death metal release of 92 and one of the best death metal albums of the 90s
thanks i was just trying to read that logo lmfao
Cenotaph is amazing
Not even close, ever heard of Legion, Onward to Golgotha, The IVthc Crusade, pleb?
Back in 1996 those CDs (also Vermin etc) were selling value 2-3$ in record store bargain bins. Bought one and traded/sold it afterwards.
If Snorre wants to claim it, I'm not gonna argue. People are gonna dig and piss and moan regardless and claim some more obscure band was the first because that's what music geeks do.
Blackthorn is so underrated, one of the all time KINGS of Black Metal guitarists
Another great source is Snorres part in the Helvete documentary where he breaks down the riff style and demonstrates as well as his patreon page is just simply incredible for any fan of early Norwegian black metal.. great video and thanks for bringing more attention Snorres way, definitely unrated musician!!
Very informative 👍been listening to black metal since the 80s like your vids 👍💥
Great video Wyatt, I know it's not the first BM riff but shining's first 1-6 albums are legendary BM imhop, heavily slept upon
Snorre's influence on euro is pretty obvious when you compare mayhem's material before and after he joined
I get weird and have to research everything I get into, and I feel vindicated, now - Snorre! but this takes it even farther, I didn't see the classical connection. you always push it deeper and now I have to get in there, too. respect.
Was just watching this part of Helvete. Are we watching the same documentaries Wyatt? Creepy.
I was thinking of that documentary too. When Snorre played those eerie riffs on the guitar to showcase his style of playing, I got goosebumps.
Love the Cenotaph vinyl in the background
Thank you. I have a show tomorrow and I wanted to review the subject. Have a nice day too.
Just listen to Mercyful Fate's "Satan's fall". I don't get how people never mention this. It is obvious where Euronymous got some of his ideas.
God, what a creepy song dat is, and I agree
Hah! I don't know why it never consciously occurred to me.
Agreed. There’s a part in the middle of that song that involves a lot of tremolo picking high on the neck. That song’s instrumentation reminds me of a lot of Black Metal guitar playing.
I have argued with people who unironically think that Mercyful Fate are not truly a black metal. That song is my best counter argument.
Great video, as per. Do you think you'll ever do a video(s) on the Dungeon Synth side of Black Metal?
Nice to hear Mork
Interesting video, Wyatt!
Wyatt is a stupid shit bag he doesn't know anything
The tremolo picking was made by Euronymous, that's a fact, even Snorre said that it was him - probably that's why Fenriz claims both of them.
One thing is definitely true, early Mayhem (De mysteriis), and Thorns are VERY similar. But its hard to tell who inspired who the most and who came up with the style, the Grymryk demo was recorded in june 1991, but by that time, Mayhem already had a few songs from the Mysteriis album done (Live in leipzig was made in 1990, BEFORE the Grymryk demo, and it already had Pagan Fears, Funeral Fog, Buried by Time and Dust and Freezing Moon.) Burzum also had its first demo in 1991 i think or even before that (I know Burzum sounds different than Mayhem, but he also used "black metal techniques" like tremolo picking, even though this arpeggio stuff with minor chords wasnt really a Burzum thing). I know this video is about Snorre and Euronymous and not Burzum, but I'ts a quite interesting question how did Vikerbes "figured out" these techniques, did he learnt it from other bands or he was also experimenting and figured out the same things as Euro and Snorre at the same time? Not realistic.
So it's really hard to tell who inspired who, but in the scene, most people says that it was Snorre. (Hellhammer also said that Euronymous's guitar style completely changed after he met Snorre.). Snorre himself always sais that they both inspired each other.
Well you also gotta consider that some of the riffs in the Thorns demo was used in DMDS. Along with that Stigma Diabolicum demo came out in 89 .
@@wyattxhim You're right, there are Thorns riff's in DMDS (though tbh I only hear one single riff, in From The Dark Past), but that album was recorded in 1992. But what I'm still wondering about is that who was the one who had that style earlier.
What we know is that the first Thorns (well the band was called Stigma Diabolicum back then) demo ever, Luna de noctornus was recorded in 1989, at Christmasbreak (according to Metallum). But from interviews with Dead we also know that in 1989 3 or 4 songs from De Mysteriis was already made. So I'm still not completely sure who started it before, we don't know when Euronymous and Snorre first met, but most guys from the scene says it was Snorre (as I mentioned, even Hellhammer), so I guess it was him :D. I think the truth is Euro had the tremolo picking and Snorre had that minor chords-arpeggios stuff.
Anyways, it's clear that Euronymous was very-very fond of Snorre's style. According to Attila, the next Mayhem album after DMDS would've been written by Snorre! (cuz Euro felt "burnt out")
Wyatt what’s your opinion on Black Funerals “Empire of Blood” I fucking love that album and I’m curious if you have it
To me, Flamenco feels like the origin for black metal, not surf rock.
That kinda is the case for Snorre too.
oh, the surf rock stuff is purely a meme. What gets scandinavians rockin is some hot sand and waves.
But yeah. You can say the type of riffing style comes from spanish guitars and such.
love this guy
I watched something recently where Snorre said his riff style was actually shown to him by Varg (I can't remember what/where it was, so no link). ??? As for the BM tremolo picking style, I'd say surf music, and the balalaika playing did it first, albeit without the "blackened" elements, and I was listening to Jefferson Airplane earlier and 'The Last Wall Of The Castle' features a similar style.
One thing is that not clear to me is that Snorre W. Ruch claims he came up with the riff in 89 when he was with Mayhem but Metal Archives says that he was only in that band from 1992 to 1993. Is MA wrong or am I missing something?
That has to do with his side project Sigma Diabolicum
Surf rock was zeroth wave black metal
Nice PSEUDOGOD tshirt dude, I have it too ;) those who know know that Snorre was the man. THORNS’s Trøndertun demo is LEGENDARY. Quintessential Black Metal.
Damn Prokovec is my fave composer now!!! So glad to know about Prokovec now, thanks so much!!
Prokoveq is a beast! The best classical music composer from the soon to be independent Quebec. All hail Prokoveq!
Darkthrone and Infernes from Gorgoroth probably the bands that popularized it to a mass audience imo
agreed!
That was a good one
good vid
Hey Whyatt go check out Thorns album Stigma Diabolicum and listen to some of the riffs not only Snorre did created the Black Métal riff before Euronymus but it precede most black métal riffs used today as well
Snorre developed the sound we know and love *WITHIN* black metal 🖤
Need a clip on mic
You that mingle may
What about massacre by bathory?
The Fenriz clip he brings up it’s a form of playing like Bathory but expanded upon
what band r u wearing?
Nice cenotaph lp
Fast answer:Snorre invented it as a teenager
Snorre is a God
Are you telling me that Prokofiev is trve kvlt? And why am I ok with this statement?
Baba booey
Fafafooey
Fafa FOGEY
Okay I’m so weirded out… this UA-cam guy looks so much like me it’s unreal 😂😂😂 I was like “fuck did I upload my opinion pieces on UA-cam when I was drunk and just didn’t remember”
What about bathory
The Fenriz clip I showed explains it a bit
@@wyattxhim i saw fenriz in a classroom setting and kinda tuned out🤣
4:07 ok but what the fuck is this pronounciation lmaoo
My dude you’ve been subbed for awhile now
I’m not sure what you’re expecting at this point
@@wyattxhim tbh you're right but you really outdid yourself on this one haha
I always felt bm originated in Scandinavian folk music
Don’t hear enough talk about Thorns when talking about Norwegian black metal
Trve
1st
To this day I don't like mayhem.
I'm a huge black metal fan but honestly, for me mayham doesn't sound like black metal
I hate Mayhem as well but if the DMDS title track isn't black metal, I don't know what is
Mayhem is a crust band just like Venom is trash.
Now imo deathcrush don't sound like black metal but dmds definitely sounds like black metal and I'm not even a mayhem fan either
@@orkamist3999 Black Metal doesnt have one specific sound style.
@@prowlingfrost5588 yea ik that
call tiamat's first three albums black metal,I even call morbid angel's abominations of desolation black metal
But mayhem's deathcrush sounds like death/grind with the lyrics being more about gore
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE! for a American you know yr shit.. Plus lots of Bm was influcened by European folk. Great short stuff...
Also varg contributed many riffs on de mysteriis dom sathanas