Your point about Pan really hit the mark for me. She didn't feel like she was 9 at first, so I thought she was a teen. So her later actions came off a bit more aggravating. I do wonder how different it would've been if they kept that same portrayal of Pan?
@@pn2294 in the previous episode Lance explains that 5 years have past since the end of Z, making Pan 9 years old. Although she does seem and acts older than 9, but then again he reflects to Gohan living in the forest by himself at age 4
@@pn2294 I thought Pan was a teen in GT at first too, she was in a date with a boy in the first episode. How many 9-year-olds do you know that go out on dates?
1:33 at this point, I just wish they made a dragonball slice of slife spinoff. Not fighting to save the universe, just the characters living their daily lives. Gohan balancing his job, family and super hero time, Trunks and goten going to school, Pan in kindergarden, Piccolo as pan's nany. yamcha's baseball career. Roshi going out and trying to get laid at bars. It could be so much fun. Imagine a whole series made with episodes like the car's license episode in Z, or the baseball episode in Super
Gohan: Goes into space at five years old Also Gohan: No Pan, you're nine years old, you're too young to go to space. Joking aside, I love that Gohan's mom forbade him from going to space, and he went anyway, and now Pan's dad forbids her from going to space, and she goes anyway. It's like passing the torch. Too bad Pan never reaches the highs that Gohan did to actually pay off this subtle passing of the torch.
I mean to be fair on Gohan's part he had more of a reason. 1 Gohan probably felt partially responsible for the death of Piccolo, considering he died defending Gohan. 2 Goku was injured so he couldn't come along, with the senzu beans arbitrarily taking long to grow. 3 Gohan was genuinely one of the strongest combatants available at the times. Still a cute parellel regardless
It's interested when you consider the three generations of Sons and their initial Dragon Ball adventures Goku started at age 12, an innocent boy learning about the world, only to face minimal challenges Gohan started at age 6, a boy traveling to space who witnessed many deaths and got almost killed several times Pan started at age 9, with a father who hasn't been back to space (in the TV show) since those younger traumatic experiences. Of course he wouldn't want her to go.
Part of the reason why I understand them aging up Pan in the Dub. If Pilaf wished Goku to be young again, well he should be 12. So, why is he shorter than a 9 year old. If Pan was 14 it makes some sense. I guess we are supposed to assume Goku was turned into a younger age than he was Dragonball, but the way pilaf phrased the wish doesn't make it seem like that. So I dunno 🤷?
@@R0-83-RT To be fair, Goku was always tinier than he realistically should be. He was 15 in the 22nd Tournament, and looks hilariously small compared to his 9 year old son during the Cell Games. De-aging Goku, but having him look realistic to his age would probably be a little odd. Reminds me of the old fan theory that, like their hair styles, pure blooded Saiyan genes keep them looking the same as children for a longer time, a concept which seems counterintuitive to a fighting race, but that's theories for you. lol
@@damkylan3 I suppose, but also factor in part of the reason that is, is because Toriyama's art style in general was a lot rounder and more pudgy. GT Goku despite being a kid is not in that art style anymore, with his limbs and body being significantly thinner than he was originally drawn. So, kid Goku already was redesigned to fit in with the modern style. I just question why he isn't older than Pan in that Art Style. Heck even if Pan was 11 I can find myself accepting it since in general girls tend to physically mature faster than Boys.
@@R0-83-RT to be fair even in the old artstyle Goku was considered very small for his age, he was shorter than Bulma and Yamcha were at 16 when he was 15 and I mean extremely shorter not to mention him barely being taller than oolong who was a 9 year old pig, if that was around his height at 12 then it's no wonder he's shorter than most kids that are even younger than him.
@@gamestar6479 Do we have any real character to measure that comparison, because While Goku & Krillen grew in the 3 year time skip its harder to judge how much Yamcha grew. Though I think its clear we can see that Bulma grew. Funnily enough even in the final word tournament we see Yamcha is taller than Goku by a bit.
@@blur7491 Indeed. I mean one of the most filleriffic DB episodes I've ever seen was the one where Goku and Vegeta in their fight against the last dragon try for an entire episode to fuse again. I don't see that episode having that much content to talk about.
@@blur7491 Evening the following episode I doubt he'll be doing such in dept coverage of the hunt for the various Dragon Balls. It would just be "I like/dislike this scenario for X and and Y" He just has a lot to talk about in the first two episodes because GT is so different, yet similar to what came before.
I'd like to throw my hat into the ring for Trunks' character here: I don't think he's seeking adventure at all. I think he really is trying to live it easy. So how is he able to run the company so well? Simple: he *really is* just that smart. The kind of person who's coasted through life on his intelligence, the kind who can procrastinate to the last second and *completely* get away with it. It's likely that the people working with him help him get away with that, but he still fulfils his part in the corporation by the end of the day. It's not that Trunks can't handle his responsibilities, in fact that's his role going forward in the 3 man team, it's that he doesn't want to push himself until the exact moment that he *has* to, even though if he put his all into it the world wouldn't stand a chance. Vegeta wants him to go because he completely stands against that attitude, he won't stand to have his son be a procrastinator, and so he's gonna make him go on the one mission he can't let himself procrastinate on, and that's why Trunks doesn't want to go. That's what gives him a great sense of responsibility, the fate of the world hanging in the span of a year. At least, in theory.
Always liked what they did with Trunks, it felt like a natural progresion of the character, even at the end of Z, when he was 18, he was already a lot more serious than when he was 8 (and as you said, it is only natural people change when they grow up). And I might be looking too deep into things, but I think using glasses he doesnt need is because he still looks up to Gohan (who does actually needs them). On the other hand, I think this is another reason why people usually believe GT takes place 10 years after Z; Trunks being "the adult" of the group fits more with him being 28 and not 23...same with Bra, whose design is absolutely ridiculous when you think she is 10. Mr Satan scene with Pan is really cute, and I also missed the joke during all these years, I always though it was just the typical "old martial arts master is a pervert", but it wasnt!
@@powercore2000 Daizenshuu 7's timeline and GT Perfect Files, the guidebook for GT, both state she was born in 780. The only time she was stated to be born in 778 was also in Daizenshuu 7 in her bio file, but considering we have three official sources (including DBS) stating 780 was her year of birth, it's safe to say that this is official and 778 was just a one time mistake.
Lastly I always saw Trunks "successes" in business as either Bulma or Dr Brief covering for him, or just the fact that running Capsule Corp is so easy at this point anyone can do it.
You know, I had thought that removing Goku and having a dynamic of Pan, Oob, and Bra would have been a neat substitution. Pan could have been characterized a bit closer to what we saw from the end of the manga, a cheerful girl ready to adventure in the same vein as her grandfather. She might have fit the Goku role better than Goku. She could have inherent strength, but like her father she could lack any way of channeling it due to a safer upbringing and be in over her head. Oob could have been the plucky everyman, Goku's chosen successor and the Kuririn on Namek parallel. He could have a deep sense of responsibility for living up to his mentor's legacy. In fact, if it was going to be Goku going and getting left behind by Pan instead of Goten, that would work as a really good setup. Oob believes he's getting an opportunity for new lessons in a new setting outside of Earth, but then he realizes that HE has to be the one keeping things together. And finally, Bra could be developed as a young tech genius taking after her mother and grandfather who's as bratty as she is useful. Being the daughter of Bulma and Vegeta and the same age as her brother was in the Boo arc, she could easily be arrogant and haughty. Pan's innocent leap before you look gusto and desire for adventure and Bra's overconfidence in herself have to be reigned in by Oob, while you have the possibility of Pan and Bra developing a rivalry/friendship akin to Goku/Vegeta + Goku/Bulma mixed with Goten/Trunks. I just think it's kind of a waste to not utilize all the new cast members introduced in the final chapters. Goku doesn't even need to be fully dropped, give him an active role on his own spaceship with Trunks and Goten as they attempt to catch up to the original crew but deal with more power level action to appease the fans of later Dragon Ball while the first crew has episodes focused more on adventure like earlier Dragon Ball. And then towards the end, have them properly group together like the original Dragon Team at the end of the first arc to deal with a major threat and have them all play different roles.
I think it would be interesting to see Bra be interested in Saiyan culture, as the only person who even know about it are Vegeta and Frieza, and one of those is the dude who killed all of them. Seeing Vegeta's kid take an interest in her father's folk tales from a dead civilization would be interesting. Maybe even have her keep the tail and by extension the oozaru form?
@@derpfluidvariant0916 I mean what culture? "Back in my day, we turned into giant monkeys, pillaged other planets, ate the corpses if they were edible and mated just to make stronger offspring. But it all got ruined by a tiny purple lizard alien man. Oh, alien races exist by the way, you're half of one" lol
@@MagillanicaLouM He was Royalty, and they definitely had legends, so at the very least they had a unique language and writing. This could be how SSJ4 is discovered, or at the very least show further insight into the only race that really ends up mattering in dragon ball. Heck, I'd honestly like for her to have a talk with her dad where she discusses traditions of the saiyans and the conversation eventually gets to the subject of names, and she finds out what Vegeta had wanted to name her. She would end up actually calling herself by that name during the fight against Baby as a sign of her reinventing the thing her father fought for, and is now being confronted with the horrors of, into something he can once again be proud of. Obviously not gonna happen, but I just wish we got more about the Saiyan race and the stuff they did considering how much they are brought up and how central the transformations seem to be to the series' identity.
@@derpfluidvariant0916 That would be nice, but yeah despite the constant wanking of the race strength wise, the lore side of tge Saiyans is definitely not a priority of any DB writer unless it can service introducing a power up. And at least in GT, Bra's character is definitely not one made to care about such things anyway. But Super is likely a clean slate at least. Though it'd make one wonder why he didn't do it with Trunks. But never too late i guess.
On one hand, Uub staying behind to defend the Earth as Goku's successor while he's in space makes sense. On the other hand, GT isn't really going to do anything with him after the Baby Arc, so it feels like a missed opportunity for him to not be on the space voyage.
@Izumi Culture You can say that about most of the Z-fighters. But people grow to like them because they were given something to do. The GT writers didn't even try.
@@TheAzulmagia Earth has normal Buu, Piccolo, and reformed Vegeta, they be more then fine without Uub around. Actually you’d think Piccolo would be more involved in this plot considering these were his dragon balls he made himself and would know them inside and out.
It's funny how Mr. Satan is so annoying in the Cell Arc at first (and, admittedly, the anime did overplay his gags by a lot), but you come to appreciate him a lot more from the moment he throws 16's head onward.
Seriously though! I kinda wish we got more of the amazing grandfather and good person he eventually became in xenoverse, instead of just his Buu saga persona(though he certainly is pretty good during that arc)
I remember having an intense crush on Pan when I watched GT back when I was about 12 and 13 years old, thinking she was around my age too. It doesn't help that I watched the Blue Water dub where they actually used a teenage girl for her voice.
9:52 Funny detail here is that the office lady in front has a strong resemblance to a woman from the town turned in into clay (She only appears in the anime)! It's definitely not her, but it looks like her. And she's not alone, through out GT several background humans resemble background humans from the Buu saga. 10:47 I am really curious if you will have something to say about Goten's Darwin Award Winner of a girlfriend once you get there?
I don't see the problem some people have regarding this Trunks. Of course this Trunks doesn't act like his younger self, because he's not. GT Trunks isn't like Z Trunks or Super Trunks, GT Trunks is older, wiser and is educated enough to run a business. Not to mention when his mother and grandfather are genius mechanics it's not that surprising that he eventually picked up on it too. Do people really expect characters to always act the same way even when they get older? Even Goku doesn't act like his kid self 100% of the time since despite what anyone thinks of him he IS an adult even if he doesn't show it all the time. Unlike in Super these characters have aged and have moved on to different stages of their lives, especially Vegeta who has already gotten over his past issues and feelings of inferiority.
Something that’s probably obvious but only recently hit me is that the line up they end up with are three widely different generations. Goku the 52 year old who’s been there since the start, Trunks the 23 year old who got involved in the events of Buu, and Pan the 9 year old who’s now about to experience her first adventure. Really makes you realize how much Gohan stands out of being the only new kid from his own generation.
18:38 you know another thing they put in the opening that they never show in the actual series: Mr. Satan IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE! I'm still pissed about that, almost 20 years later.
UA-cam does you so dirty your vids are never recommended I always gotta go out my way every couple weeks to check on your uploads and binge a couple episodes. Love the content, have for a few years, have watched every dB related vid so far, keep up the amazing work as usual.
I don't think you're wrong there. This year, and especially this month, it doesn't feel like I'm getting any traction at all, and only around a quarter to a third of my views are coming from non-subscribers. Nobody new is finding my videos lately, and it's becoming really disheartening. Thanks for watching!
A lot of what was said has also been my thoughts on GT Trunks. Its been many years since the Buu Saga and Trunks is grown up. It makes sense as an adult that he would now be more responsible. At the same time I feel he is different enough from Future Trunks. Him escaping from work and a few of the more laid back moments for the character are an important difference for him. He may have grown out of a lot of the bratty elements associated with Kid Trunks, but unlike the more polite, compliant and intense Future Trunks, GT Trunks he has it in himself to take off just for fun or duck out for breathers. Frankly GT Trunks is one of the more likeable and enjoyable characters of the show and I’m glad he was written as he was. I like Future Trunks, but i feel GT Trunks fits well into the show and is a good balance of many different aspects while still believably being present day Trunks.
I feel like this being the continuation of a story and cast the audience already knows gives more leeway for multi-part introductions. Like, to bolster its identity as acting like it's something brand-new the Z anime adds a lot of extra scenes to introduce Gohan, but I don't think it's really a /problem/ that it takes a couple episodes for Goku and Raditz to meet, since we're already along for the ride.
A fantastic episode! I love the deep character analysis. I've watched these first two episodes of GT more than I've watched the rest of the show... I get stuck... and then start over... then get stuck... I'm glad you enjoyed them as much as I did. Btw, you make the same Nazawa joke with the same graphics twice in around 30 seconds and that may be a glitch from editing.
"Btw, you make the same Nazawa joke with the same graphics twice in around 30 seconds and that may be a glitch from editing." I'm not sure if you're making a joke here or not. I mean, I'm still getting people today teasing me that they hope I'll cover Dragon Ball GT at some point, so I'm really not sure about anything anymore. I make a *variation* of the same joke twice, using different characters and different images. If that's the case, that's supposed to be there. But if there is actually an editing mistake, please let me know where it is. So glad you enjoyed it!
@@MistareFusion No, I got the joke: "Dang, we can't take either of Goku's children on this adventure, or that's gonna be way too much Nozawa per scene!" Now I wonder if they cast Videl's voice actress as Pan just so she'd have more to do in GT.
@@MistareFusion Heya, yeah I went to the comments to check too: 10:22 and 11:22. Not sure if it was intentional, but it sure did feel like déjà vu. Also I'm just now realizing I'm 12 days late.
I always was under the impression Bulma or Vegeta gave him the sword because they thought "The old Trunks from the future liked his sword, maybe that's what Trunks likes" and he thought it looked cool on him so he made it part of his outfit, even though he couldn't actually use it properly
I personally always saw GT!Trunks as a more middle-ground character. Sure, he LIKED fighting and flying free and all of that, but had given it up to the realistic reality of the whole full-time working adult. It's really hard, when working a demanding busy office job like that, to find the time to keep up on things like training or social relationships or the like. So, because he was heir to the Capsule Corps, he eventually settled down, studied through school, and became a productive member of society like Gohan did. Like most modern Japanese children are expected to do. Vegeta's whole thing about forcing the boys onto the mission I then took as him seeing it as an opportunity to try and instill in this younger generation at least SOME of the Saiya-jin culture and drive that all three half-breed boys seem to lack. Get them out from behind their desks, force them out into the wider universe, and hopefully they'll finally find the drive to improve themselves like real Saiya-jin warriors ought to. After all, the show indicated that Pan at age 4 was stronger than a 17 year old Goten, who was Trunks's primary friend and training partner, so one could assume that Trunks wouldn't have been that much stronger either. The fact that Trunks, who can move at super speeds (probably close to light speed if not as fast or faster) chose to duck out of the boring office for a bit to go on a flight when he could easily come back later and whiz through his paperwork with his heightened abilities and get who knows how much more done on top of that is just him letting off some steam because he can afford to. The fact the show has him do it twice to establish it's a pattern for him may be a little much without other characteristics on display as well, but episode time is limited and showing a person around the office all day doing paperwork and attending meetings would be boring for the audience to watch. Especially for young children who don't really relate to those emotions yet and when they're trying to establish the tone of the series into a light-hearted adventure series. Or, at least, that's how I read the whole thing.
I love both of Pan's introductions, both her being an arrogant teenager who sees her child grandpa as beneath her and the child putting herself in danger to prove her family she's an adult work great as foils for Goku and especially Trunks. Unfortunately, only one can be true at a time, and I now believe she should have grown into the portrayal we saw in the first episode along the space travel. Pan growing into that competent fighter, but still over her head character, would have worked wonders to solve another major problem with her role in the story - the damsel in distress. And no, I'm not pulling this one out of my ass, the producers and writers for GT already stated in interviews that the role they wanted to give Pan was that of the female heroine that gets captured one way or another in order for Goku to save her. I really like Pan's design and her personality in the beginning, but mostly because it has the promise of growth that the writers, unfortunately, were dead set on never delivering! Imagine Pan going from this bratty child wanting to prove herself to her family, eventually learning the ropes of fights and not having to be rescued by Goku all the time and becoming a competent fighter, only for her successes to get over her head and she starts belittling Goku and Trunks for their refusal to charge recklessly into action as she does, eventually leading her to making a major mistake that she would regret deeply and her resolution to fix it and become a better person leading to her transformation into a Super Saiyajin! Pan could have been the first female SSj in the lore, marking her growth as a character and giving her a really cool and official design. But unfortunately, all we have is Pan being taken away or beaten up, so Goku has to save her. It made sense in space, since it was just Goku, Pan and Trunks, but after they returned to Earth and started searching for the evil Shenron parts, having Vegeta, Goku and Piccolo on the backseat while Goku and Pan kept repeating the formula really dragged the show down for me. PAN IS GOHAN'S DAUGHTER, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! Gohan was forced to grow into a fighter against his will because of all the aliens that kept coming into his life to kills his family, while Pan actively sought out to go into space because she wanted to prove herself a capable adult to her mom and dad! Imagine Gohan trying to put Pan on the backseat for the Shadow Dragon Saga, while she keeps trying to join the fight, not because she wants to prove herself anymore, but because she's now matured enough to understand the situation and wants to contribute with everything she can because she knows what is at stake! Gohan and Pan would work great as foils to each other, just like Gohan and Goku were opposites during the Cell Saga, which led to Goku's death because he just assumed Gohan was just like him! This would have been a much better arc than Goku SSJ repeatedly saving his stupid granddaughter that shouldn't even be in that journey in the first place if they had Vegeta and Piccolo available!
@@Hydrogue A waste indeed. As much as I hate the idea of getting rid of the damsel in distress trope (as the likes of Anita Sarkeesian would love to do), I hate the idea of limiting a character's growth for the sake of status quo the most. There's nothing wrong with Pan being the damsel in distress at the beginning. She's just a brat getting in a situation she had no reason to be involved in simply because she refused to listen to the adults around her. She thinks of herself as the hero of the story, but when she's put into the position of the damsel in distress quite often, that should be a wake up call for her that triggers her character growth into a proper Sayajin warrior over the course of their space journey. But nope, throw that growth out the window and put her in movie Gohan's place - just a kid that needs to be rescued by Goku every single time...
@@BubblesChika Read the first paragraph again, but this time pay a bit more attention to how I worded it and compare to how MistareFusion described her portrayals in episodes 1 and 2.
One thing that is weirdly coherent is how characters treat kids, and how they evolve in their perception of kids. Gohan and Goku were kids too when they started adventuring, and at the time almost everyone was ok with it. Is this an inconsistency? Or is Toriyama and the rest of the dragonball crew smarter at worldbuilding than we give them credit? Lets see: -When Goku was a kid he got to go on adventures because bulma was a bad influence and took him from his cozy life that grandpa Gohan taught him. Then it became a Master Roshi problem, as he also didnt bat an eye at letting 2 kids train with him, fight almost to the death and then let these kids fight a terrorist army and a demon king. -When Gohan was a kid, thank fuck Chi-Chi had the decency to realize that her kid shouldn't have the same life threatning experiences she and goku went through. It's not their fault that goku was dead, piccollo had kidnapped him and the saiyans didnt care. Altho, letting gohan go to namek might seem like bad parenting, they also didnt expect Vegeta to be there. Its only in the Cell arch when it becomes irresponsible to let Gohan, a kid, face the super strong city sucking bug monster. -Small Goten interlude: here they actually had a choice, they could just leave trunks and goten out of this, but Piccollo and Goku supported the idea of using them as a last resort. -Now Pan comes along, and once again, the cast doesnt actually want her to risk her life, she tricks them. So, as we see, the gang letting kids go on life threatning situations isnt the norm, its either the result of very specific characters that we know are very "adventurous" or straight up villains OR pure chance of bad luck/getting tricked.
Which is remained kinda consistent during Super, as Goten and Trunks usually come into battle by their own free will without the approval of their parents or of any other adult member in the party, and Pan was only brought into Super Hero because of circumstance and was kept away and safe during most of the action bits in the movie. Its quite neat.
This episode makes me realize how much I wish they kept Goku as an adult.
Seeing every other character, and how they've changed with the passage of time is a nice progression to everything in the story. But Goku is the one glaring exception as he regresses into a kid making it feel like the story itself regressing a bit to keep him as the main character since that's the safer bet. Which is an unfortunate pattern GT falls deeper and deeper into as it goes on. I feel like they could have kept Goku going on the trip as an adult, but actually have him follow up to some of the lip service he paid to passing the torch to the next generation. He only serves as a master roshi like mentor role to Trunks and Pan, overseeing the mission to make sure it actually succeeds since the earth will blow up otherwise. However he actively chooses not to intervene too much in whatever the main contention of the episode is, and gets up to wacky hijinks instead most of the time. We can still keep that adventurous feel, and make a good statement on the progression of Goku's character. It would even be a nice tie in to stuff he might have learned from teaching uub, his first official pupil. The difficult part is creating tension around fights since we all know Goku existing is a win button, but he basically becomes this anyway. At least it would feel like a new spin on the formula, which for all the faults of GT, it does try to be different from Z at the start.
That's why I respect Boruto for having the balls to pass the torch onto Naruto's son, instead of forcefully regressing Naruto to his child state to keep him as the main character
@@BubblesChika I've heard it wasn't that good, but you're definitely right on that one. If you want to make a sequel to a series about family and progression, you don't make the grandfather into a kid in the first episode.
That's my biggest issue with the group and the series as a whole. They took some risks and successfully managed to create something interesting, but at the same time, they backtracked and took the easy way out. I think Goku should've remained an adult and (hilariously enough) turned into the middle man that has to deal with a Trunks and Pan, who as the video stated, are just not serious people. You can have Goku leading the mission with the seriousness it deserves (while occasionally being a goof when he can) and then Pan goes along and causes chaos and mayhem because she is literally 9, meanwhile, Trunks is absolutely self absorbed on his own life, and instead of him being the middle man he is actually closer to Bulma, and in turn, Pan is instead closer to Goku (Causes chaos, moves the narrative forward by getting into fights with absolutely everyone) while retaining the same character traits as shown in episode 1-2. I feel like this would have been a better setup as it not only feels unique and interesting but also remembers the character progression these characters had or could have in the future.
8:33 I didn't even notice that these two are base on Harry and Marv from Home Alone until you pointed it out! Does this make kid Goku, Kevin McAlister? 😜
So, Trunks is basically a DB version of Ben Tennyson in this show. He used to be a brat, but after 5 years, he is now the mature guy who can lead a team in space and operate a spacecraft. Hey, can anyone please write a fanfiction where Ben is in GT?
So set it during the Omnitrix movie where he's going to space to find who made it and he ends up meeting the Dragon Team on their way for the Black Dragon Balls. Or does he just show up while the whole Baby thing is happening and sticks around after?
In short, Ben is a childhood friend of Goten and Trunks who can't use ki and became a superhero around 4 years after Buu was killed. Ben is 21 or 22 in GT, and while he does not have Master Control, he is worthy of it and his understanding of the Omnitrix and skills with his aliens is above Alien Force season 2. Ben joins the trio instead of Trunks, and this is his first time in space. Instead of going to planets that are basically Earth (I think there were at least 3 of those in GT, but I am not sure) they would go to the worlds Ben's aliens come from.
I can understand the argument that "Trunks grew up and is no longer a spoiled brat," but at the same time... these are characters, not people. They don't grow up, they're written up. Changing a character in such a profound way shouldn't be done offscreen. There's writing that needs to be done to show how the character changed from one form to another.
I can agree with that to an extent. I mean, I even said that having Trunks start as responsible leaves him nowhere to grow. But I also don't think there's no room for having a character change off-screen. Depending on the perspective of the story, the nature of the change, and the intention of the information being held back, it can be a perfectly reasonable way of writing things. Case in point: if the changed character is supposed to be a major shock, then actually showing development would do little but diminish that impact. It's all about how a story is framed. Do I think Trunks is an example of that? Not at all. It's one of the reasons why I could only be partially supportive of his introduction. But at the same time, I don't think it's necessarily debilitating to introduce him in a new story, as an adult, as a changed character. Now, I can think of an example of a Dragon Ball character changing off screen that absolutely does not work for me, and definitely weakens the story in which it is in. And that is Future Mai in Dragon Ball Super. There would have to be incredibly specific and dramatic circumstances to justify her going from comic relief villain sidekick to heroic freedom fighter who's also magically de-aged and in love with Trunks. I'm not saying all of those things can't happen, but they are so at odds with the core of her character as established and with natural logic that it feels extraordinarily lazy not to address them in any way. But a young, spoiled child growing into a more responsible but-still-prone-to-sneaking-out-of-the-cushy-office-job-his-parents-got-for-him adult... I can pretty easily connect the dots on that. It flows naturally to me. Obviously it doesn't have to for you, but "adult has changed since he was a child" is so common an idea in fiction and in life that I think it just works.
@@nicholassims9837 Perhaps trunks being less of a brat was partially the result of Vegeta's change in the Buu arc that made him more humble and thus a more positive influence on Trunks, as well as being more involved as a parent.
@@MistareFusion I’m surprised you didn’t mention Gohan from the Saiyan arc. You were quite frustrated with Toriyama snapping his fingers and having him change so quickly. Do you still feel that way or do you feel differently about that plot point now?
Given how ubiquious the Hoy poy capsules are, and Bulma seems infinitely rich, I actually assumed There was a much larger capsule business But we just don't see it
Speaking of family dynamics I love Ep. 2 as it did the 1 thing I've wanted from DB since, Vegeta to stay TF home and be a dad. Seeing him with Bra just cause and dragging his two sons to do some adulting, it's tiny but I love it! Not because I hate Goku (I love Goku...alot) or hate them being together (I do hate that tho, please stop) but because it also implied Vegeta had ended his obsessive "Grrr Kakarot!" brain rot and prefers to be home. It gave me hope that this tiny angry man I love had finally found peace. Also very beautifully sung parody, love that we now have 2 alternate versions of Princess Trunks 😅
It does inevitably mean that Vegeta doesn't actually do a whole lot through the entire show; his next major appearance after this is getting possessed by Baby and then he's out for the remainder of the arc and he doesn't do much in the Super 17 arc either. So it probably wasn't too shocking when the Shadow Dragon saga kind of..regressed him back into "Grrrr Kakarot" because no way they weren't going to end the show by not giving Vegeta a new power up to keep him and Goku on par , but they at least kind of flip it by having HIM be the one to suggest fusion for once...and then immediately have him be pissy about it when they have to do it again...
@@sonic5993 I like that 1st part tho lol! I don't need Vegeta to do things when the requirement is it must be done with Goku and their dynamic has to stay as "Grr Kakarot"/"Lol Vegeta". So the start of GT felt like I was gonna get what the previous "rivals" to Goku got, closure and moving TF on until sadly it didn't and I was disappointed despite overall liking GT. I do love Vegeta openly wanting to protect the Earth so it made some sense that he'd be more active to local physical threats but I just wish DB, GT to now, was written more consistently as an ensemble akin to say Yu Yu Hakusho instead of still being stuck with Vegeta and Goku doing nearly everything together. I know fans and...certain fangirls love that tho, they've been eating good for many years but I am not one of them 😖 Despite my issues with DBS Super Hero (WHY NO KAGEYAMA!?!), daring to allow Uncle Grandpa Piccolo and Gohan be in main active roles was very enjoyable but even there Vegeta still had to be stuck with Goku so I'm not get my hopes up that the status quo is shifting.
@@ThexDynastxQueen I'd argue YYH wasn't even, because its still very much Yusuke's story; its just that the other main characters have ongoing subplots too...except Kuwabara and sure enough, Kuwabara gets less screentime and relevance until he's written out of the series altogether. You could do that with Vegeta, but I don't think it would ever be accepted. Look how many people got annoyed at how Piccolo was treated until Super Hero came out, he may as well have not been around for what he contributed.
@@sonic5993 I agree it's Yusuke's story, no disputing that but I was more saying that he isn't the sole protag with everyone else in support roles, all 4 have to be there to move forward as each are uniquely powered...even Kuwabara to a degree lol. So even when Yusuke is "technically" the strongest he nor anyone else can fight everyone as all opponents are also uniquely powered as Chapter Black showed if the Dark Tournament wasn't enough evidence. Thats why I loved YYH, it avoided DB's still ongoing problem by using Ki differently which allows for alternating characters. So when any YYH character fights an enemy that was a must watch but when DBS Vegeta fights solo I knew the outcome 99% of the time without reading/watching because Goku isn't also fighting. Only the TOP got the closest but when competing with modern and even decades old battle Shonen, it just wasn't as entertaining to me. The highlight of that whole arc for me was daddy just wanting to stay home lol. So I am in the minority of enjoying DB for it's character interactions and slice of life moments vs it's fights now so I want a Vegeta that DB is never gonna fully commit to. Thats why I'm here instead of at DB UA-camr #43253 "How much stronger is MUI vs SSGIDon'tFuckingKnowAnymore" videos 😅
From what I've seen so far, it does seem to be a bit of a trend that Dragon Ball GT often takes two episodes to do what could have been accomplished in one if it really wanted. I wonder if it was just trying to match the pacing of the previous shows that had to stretch the content of short manga chapters released concurrently. I also wonder about the hypothesis that the original plan was for the quest for the black-star balls to last an entire year of real time, a plan that was definitely changed by the time Baby escaped to Earth and finding the last three balls became a rapid afterthought.
Admit it… you did this format on purpose… one episode per video. I absolutely love it. I don’t blame you, Gt has a lot to talk about, especially if you’ve been reading the manga in its original unaltered Japanese form. Trunks in how he grows up compared to his alternate future counterpart is… honestly very sad. Sure he is the heir to Capsule Corp, but at what cost?
I always thought that the present-timeline Trunks' brash character was due to not only the sense of life-threatening danger but also the strong presence of Vegeta. The main thing that Future Trunks lacked. He's more Bulma by default.
Dang. I never realized half of that stuff with trunks! And I do very much like him in this series tho. At the rate this is going your review of GT will be longer than GT itself! More GT the better lol.
I am actually a bit surprised to hear that people thought GT Trunks was just "Future trunks shoved into the regular timeline" or whatever. Yes, this no longer a chlid Trunks is reminiscent of the other one, but that should be a given given that they're alternate reality counter parts. What is more, in this timeline, Vegeta not only survives the Androids and Boo (well, sorta survive that one), he in both accounts parents better than his dead and staying dead counterpart, specially after Boo. Not only that, he had that entire rather rumbling experience with Boo, and not only did he have a better Vegeta as a living parent, he had the entire gang as positive influence. He was no longer trying to stand up to and impress a still distant and hard on the emotion showing front father that Vegeta was pre-Boo (better than his dead AR self and better than he was before Cell, but still far from a model parent). if he had remained a spoiled Brat after all of that, now this would not be verisimilar. Also think your theory about Vegeta and trunk's motivation is good, and better than you give it credit for. In the translations I have watched, Vegeta specifically says that he chose both of them because they have been slacking on their (martial arts) training. Trunks only pull the "what about the Capsule corporation" card because he didn't want to go to space. Which is what I think does show that yes, he was successful, but he was also slacking off in general and wasn't actually pushing his limits either mentally or physically. Sure, he was very good at running the company it seems, and in good part it is because he had excellent teachers, who were literally geniuses (mom and grampa), and it is the capsule corp. with their unique tech (little competition). And while the results were technically even considered great, he was settling for doing just "good enough" and wasn't even able to do his duty throughout, even if his enough meant it was already excellent by many people's standards, becaue he woud just skiddaddle out of his duties once he did "enough". He was merely coasting along physically and mentally after great headstarts on both fronts. Compare to Gohan who was continuously pushing himself mentally and still kept physical training to at least maintain what he had accomplished before in GT. Trunks was perhaps even excellent by most people's standards, but that attitude was definitelly not up to Vegeta's and he was having none of it. And also no surprise he jumped at the chance to send his just coasting-through-life boy to space to steel himself up just like he used to do when he was his age (albeit for entirely different reasons and under entirely different circumstances). So I think the idea that he lacks challenge is absolutely true, Vegeta was mostly right here (if not entirely right), and it does not contradict his apparent success because that is not what Vegeta was going on about (it is not that he wasn't good enough, it was his life attitude). There was an itch he couldn't scratch, but the difference is that he himself wasn't aware of it, but mustache Vegeta got him to straigthen up.
After watching this video, I thought a few things about GT Trunks, but I am too lazy to write them 🙃… One thing I find interesting is how this Trunks rarely shows up as playable in video games. Even Budokai Tenkaichi 3, which feature multiple Trunks, doesn't have a GT Trunks. And that game have characters like Future Gohan, Zangya, Drum and the 4-star fire Shenron (whatever his name is)
Tbh I believe the reason GT Trunks hardly appears in video games is because he came off as more of a nerd/thinker than a fighter and if I'm not mistaken,he didn't even have much fights and for the few he did have usually involved him getting his ass kicked so quickly that he can't even show off any new techniques. So why waste time making another Trunks when you can just reuse his much cooler future variant. I think something similar could possibly be said for GT Vegeta,I hated that they changed his hairstyle,why would Vegeta ever go to Gohan's barber?
Great video, as always. I have a suggestion for a fun video, your top 10 favourite dragon ball characters. Since you like the characters for their personality instead of their power level I think it would be an interesting list.
14:13 Where is Trunks' nose? I thought he was half human and half space monkey man but is he part skeleton as well? Does Bulma have some skeleton blood? Maybe she had a grandparent that was a skeleton.
Ah, yes Dragonball GT the series we saw presumably a adult or teen (They can at least Drive) hitting on an 8 year old girl *Edit* so it turns out the minimum driving age in Japan is 18. So, yeah even worse.
Maybe it's the same logic that kept them from wishing away Vegeta and Nappa, Shenlong can't recall Dragon Balls with power that exceeds his, or something like that. The Vegeta and Nappa thing doesn't make much sense either.
They could. They just didn't want to. Because then there wouldn't be a series. Keep in mind all the wishes that worked from space in the kid Buu fight.
@@Gardetrace Oolong wanted Shenron to explode Vegeta and Nappa's ships in space, thus killing them. The other characters stopped him because that would mean Goku wouldn't come back to life, since Shenron can't revive anyone that has been dead for over a year (so yeah, Resurrection F can't happen). There is no rule that states they can't use one set of Dragonballs to call for another set in canon. But even if there was, they could have solved the issue with creativity and empowered Goku's shunkan idou to sense the Dragonballs from across the universe and teleport the cast to its immediate location, for example. There being one set of Dragonballs left on Earth they can use at any time ruins the premise of GT. In hindsight, this could have easily been fixed if the original Dragonballs had been used prior to the Black Star ones scattering across the universe (in true Toriyama fashion, for something vane, like Chichi and Bulma asking to be young again, like Bulma said she would do at the end of Z). Or even better, no Black Star Dragonballs whatsoever. Pilaf tracks to normal Dragonballs all the way to Dende's Lookout, stupidly phrases his frustration at seeing an adult Goku as a wish to make him into a child again, and when he realizes there is a second wish (which he didn't know, since he wasn't there for the upgrade in the Cell Saga), he uses it to wish for the Dragonballs to scatter across the universe in a fit of rage and stupidity, only to realize he let the one chance he had of realizing his dreams of being the king of Earth slip by his hands because he wanted to torment Goku by getting rid of the only way to turn him back into an adult. I think what I wrote falls more in line with Toriyama's brand of humor connecting to plot progression than what GT did.
Funny enough, rather than the Baby arc, I just consider this the Hunt for the Black Star Dragon Balls arc. The wish to turn Goku into a child is what causes the journey, which leads them to Baby, who ends up collecting them for his own ends once he’s unleashed, and then the wish to create New Planet Tsufru is what ends that story due to Earth exploding and Piccolo dying. The story is honestly more about the Black Star Dragon Balls than it is about Baby a lot of the time!
I think that Vegeta thought that both Trunks and Goten were the only adult saiyans that didn't travel through space yet. Trunks did travel in time but never step foot in another planet like him, Goku, Gohan and every other Sayan ever. Vegeta might've thought that this was an important event for a Saiyan to experience and they should go.
I understand the mind set especially considering how tight this was after the end of Z. Then Goku, Pan and Trunks seems like like a good trio. What I remember Goku and Trunks being more used to working togheter. Pan having a crush on Trunks and they both can relate on trying the logical path while Pan and Goku butts head or sometimes have fun playing. Even if I wish hindsight could have used Uub somewhere maybe still Goten and Trunks and Pan with or without Bra.
Honestly it just feels Pan who written in the prior part and this part are two done by two different writers. Hence why they come off so different. Well besides the Mr. Satan scenes he has with her.
I always thought it was weird Vegeta has no desire to go though considering his experience with traveling through space. It would have also given an interesting study into Vegeta facing his and his people's past with Baby a direct manifestation of the latter.
The only problem is that Vegeta wouldn't have wasted time with all the bullshit. He would have blown up General Riildo, Dr. Myuu and Baby right away and we would have no arc.
Same with Piccolo, after all these were his Dragon balls he created himself and threatened the earth. You’d think his Kami would want to take responsibility for this as soon as he hears about and help out, rather then much later on after so much nonsense happened to finish it with a pointless death.
First of all great video Lance,loved as always. Now I do have a suggestion,what if the "responsible" role was filled by.... Vegeta. The issue I have with this Trunks is that,like you pointed out,we don't see how he becomes this mix of both Kid Trunks and Future Trunks,a mix that I don't think it even works that well,making him feel like diet Yamcha but with Vegeta we have all of his screen time to make up for it. He specifically lets Gohan home because he should be taking care of his wife and daughter, and chooses Trunks and Goten because he wants them to grow up,which should be crazy coming from him of all people yet it makes perfect sense,heck he stays because he wants to take care of Bra,but Trunks could take her of her. Besides just think of much fun would be having Vegeta having to deal with Goku's and Pan's shenanigans ultimately having him be princess Vegeta. But seriously he could pass as a straight man much better than Trunks, as his now strong friendships with Goku would be a great contrast with Pan,which sees her grandpa as beneath him,yet this space murder (specifically to Goku no less) has so much respect for him do to their history Plus he would much more tech savvy than Trunks especially regarding alien technology and you know....the villain. Either way I like this group so I don't really mind,just a thought I had
Give how much screen time Vegeta had in DBZ (and later in the future DBS) it would not have been as original. Vegeta also would blow everything up for his solution to problems versus using logic.
@@AutumnPlainsIdk,GT Vegeta is shown to be MUCH different that DBZ Vegeta so I actually don't think he would have gone for "fuck you big bang attack" for every problem but he would be more prone to action than trunks for sure. I also dont think it's fair to use the exposure Vegeta gets in Super a whole 20 years after GT as a justification for not including him. My biggest problem with not having Vegeta in the first arc is that he just kind of....comes back at the end of the series with no real build up to fight Omega Shenron which is kinda lame. Don't get me wrong,he is great once he comes back but it just feels like the writers realized that Pan and Trunks didn't work so they fell back on Vegeta as a crutch,which worked mostly well while still being jarring
I kind of think Trunks is there because the creator were trying to recreate the beginning of Dragonball. So, while you have Bulma as the straightman (kinda), you have Trunks - her son - fullfilling that role. Plus he's a fan favorite. The only problem is that Bulma actually has a character while Trunks... is a fan favorite. Bulma and Goku's chemistry worked because while she was the straightman to Goku's weirdness, Goku was the straightman to Bulma's essentaricties. So the two complimented reach other in different areas. Goku's an innocent fish out of water, while Bulma is a bratty know it all in over her head. When you have Pan taking Bulma's "negative" traits, but not the positives, it hurts both the side characters traveling along Goku. At least that's what I think.
wait how old is trunks in GT? 23? Also, I really love how drastically the characters have changed. It's the opposite to Super where the characters haven't changed at all (Trunks and Goten don't even look older).
Yeah, I'm one of those people of the opinion that Trunks is mostly in GT to be a stand-in for his future counterpart as calculated attempt to recapture the popularity of that character. It is interesting to see a different analysis though, even if I'm not sure I'll ever really be able to buy into it. What I can fully get invested in is the continued analysis and contrast of Pan. For better or worse she's sorta the face of GT. A character who both had so much potential, but that she doesn't really ever quite manage to live up to, often being relegated to the scrappy heap by fans of Z who see her as emblematic of everything wrong with GT. To be clear, I'm absolutely not one of those latter types of fans. I love Pan, or at least I want to. It's also why I'm so very eager to see modern Dragon Ball finally reaching a point in the story where she's old enough to be a character. I really want to see her get the second chance her pedigree deserves.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
10:49 at least they gave Goten a personality trait, since he's too old to pull off the cute puppydog personality he had as a kid.
Agreed 100%
Wow, that gag with the drinks is a surprisingly cute bit of characterization.
Your point about Pan really hit the mark for me. She didn't feel like she was 9 at first, so I thought she was a teen. So her later actions came off a bit more aggravating. I do wonder how different it would've been if they kept that same portrayal of Pan?
People thought she was a teen? She’s literally the same height as Goten was during the Buu Saga.
@@pn2294 in the previous episode Lance explains that 5 years have past since the end of Z, making Pan 9 years old. Although she does seem and acts older than 9, but then again he reflects to Gohan living in the forest by himself at age 4
@@pn2294 I thought Pan was a teen in GT at first too, she was in a date with a boy in the first episode. How many 9-year-olds do you know that go out on dates?
@@Bardim18 do you really want me to answer that question?
@@Bardim18 hehe not wanting to sound like that guy, but yeeeeeeeeeeah. I think some kids just grow up different
1:33 at this point, I just wish they made a dragonball slice of slife spinoff. Not fighting to save the universe, just the characters living their daily lives.
Gohan balancing his job, family and super hero time, Trunks and goten going to school, Pan in kindergarden, Piccolo as pan's nany. yamcha's baseball career. Roshi going out and trying to get laid at bars. It could be so much fun.
Imagine a whole series made with episodes like the car's license episode in Z, or the baseball episode in Super
Gohan: Goes into space at five years old
Also Gohan: No Pan, you're nine years old, you're too young to go to space.
Joking aside, I love that Gohan's mom forbade him from going to space, and he went anyway, and now Pan's dad forbids her from going to space, and she goes anyway. It's like passing the torch. Too bad Pan never reaches the highs that Gohan did to actually pay off this subtle passing of the torch.
I mean to be fair on Gohan's part he had more of a reason.
1 Gohan probably felt partially responsible for the death of Piccolo, considering he died defending Gohan.
2 Goku was injured so he couldn't come along, with the senzu beans arbitrarily
taking long to grow.
3 Gohan was genuinely one of the strongest combatants available at the times.
Still a cute parellel regardless
Gohan fought and survived the saiyan attack so he was already a tough fighter. Pan never experienced anything like that in her life.
Tbh, Gohan got his neck snapped, so I can't blame him for being a little against the whole childhood space adventure thing lol
It's interested when you consider the three generations of Sons and their initial Dragon Ball adventures
Goku started at age 12, an innocent boy learning about the world, only to face minimal challenges
Gohan started at age 6, a boy traveling to space who witnessed many deaths and got almost killed several times
Pan started at age 9, with a father who hasn't been back to space (in the TV show) since those younger traumatic experiences. Of course he wouldn't want her to go.
Part of the reason why I understand them aging up Pan in the Dub. If Pilaf wished Goku to be young again, well he should be 12. So, why is he shorter than a 9 year old. If Pan was 14 it makes some sense. I guess we are supposed to assume Goku was turned into a younger age than he was Dragonball, but the way pilaf phrased the wish doesn't make it seem like that. So I dunno 🤷?
@@R0-83-RT To be fair, Goku was always tinier than he realistically should be. He was 15 in the 22nd Tournament, and looks hilariously small compared to his 9 year old son during the Cell Games. De-aging Goku, but having him look realistic to his age would probably be a little odd.
Reminds me of the old fan theory that, like their hair styles, pure blooded Saiyan genes keep them looking the same as children for a longer time, a concept which seems counterintuitive to a fighting race, but that's theories for you. lol
@@damkylan3 I suppose, but also factor in part of the reason that is, is because Toriyama's art style in general was a lot rounder and more pudgy. GT Goku despite being a kid is not in that art style anymore, with his limbs and body being significantly thinner than he was originally drawn. So, kid Goku already was redesigned to fit in with the modern style. I just question why he isn't older than Pan in that Art Style. Heck even if Pan was 11 I can find myself accepting it since in general girls tend to physically mature faster than Boys.
@@R0-83-RT to be fair even in the old artstyle Goku was considered very small for his age, he was shorter than Bulma and Yamcha were at 16 when he was 15 and I mean extremely shorter not to mention him barely being taller than oolong who was a 9 year old pig, if that was around his height at 12 then it's no wonder he's shorter than most kids that are even younger than him.
@@gamestar6479 Do we have any real character to measure that comparison, because While Goku & Krillen grew in the 3 year time skip its harder to judge how much Yamcha grew. Though I think its clear we can see that Bulma grew.
Funnily enough even in the final word tournament we see Yamcha is taller than Goku by a bit.
At this rate of one DBD video for every DBGT episode, it's going to beat the Boo arc record of 29 parts by quite a bit hahaha
64 parts for 64 episodes. If this rate continues I can see it happening.
@@spartanq7781 I don't really think he's gonna spend 25 minutes on each shadow dragon lmao
@@blur7491 Indeed. I mean one of the most filleriffic DB episodes I've ever seen was the one where Goku and Vegeta in their fight against the last dragon try for an entire episode to fuse again. I don't see that episode having that much content to talk about.
@@blur7491 if One Piece can mange 1 chqpter to 1 episode. Then he can do DBD at a 1:1 ratio also.
@@blur7491 Evening the following episode I doubt he'll be doing such in dept coverage of the hunt for the various Dragon Balls. It would just be "I like/dislike this scenario for X and and Y" He just has a lot to talk about in the first two episodes because GT is so different, yet similar to what came before.
"From now on, you shall ONLY address him as Princess Trunks!"
"ALL HAIL PRINCESS TRUNKS"
I’m totally up for this being a 64 part series 😂😂
🚀🚀🚀
add 5 more and it's perfect...
@@marxist-leninist-protagonist Oh grow up. I can't believe that joke is still popular.
@@spartanq7781 spartan#Q77 more like boring#Q77
@@marxist-leninist-protagonist of course the HxH fan would have the sense of humor of a 2 yr old
I'd like to throw my hat into the ring for Trunks' character here:
I don't think he's seeking adventure at all. I think he really is trying to live it easy. So how is he able to run the company so well? Simple: he *really is* just that smart. The kind of person who's coasted through life on his intelligence, the kind who can procrastinate to the last second and *completely* get away with it. It's likely that the people working with him help him get away with that, but he still fulfils his part in the corporation by the end of the day. It's not that Trunks can't handle his responsibilities, in fact that's his role going forward in the 3 man team, it's that he doesn't want to push himself until the exact moment that he *has* to, even though if he put his all into it the world wouldn't stand a chance. Vegeta wants him to go because he completely stands against that attitude, he won't stand to have his son be a procrastinator, and so he's gonna make him go on the one mission he can't let himself procrastinate on, and that's why Trunks doesn't want to go. That's what gives him a great sense of responsibility, the fate of the world hanging in the span of a year. At least, in theory.
That's a perfect theory,I think I feel the same way about Trunks.
Always liked what they did with Trunks, it felt like a natural progresion of the character, even at the end of Z, when he was 18, he was already a lot more serious than when he was 8 (and as you said, it is only natural people change when they grow up). And I might be looking too deep into things, but I think using glasses he doesnt need is because he still looks up to Gohan (who does actually needs them).
On the other hand, I think this is another reason why people usually believe GT takes place 10 years after Z; Trunks being "the adult" of the group fits more with him being 28 and not 23...same with Bra, whose design is absolutely ridiculous when you think she is 10.
Mr Satan scene with Pan is really cute, and I also missed the joke during all these years, I always though it was just the typical "old martial arts master is a pervert", but it wasnt!
It's even worse, because Bra is 8. She is a year younger than Pan. Pan was born Age 779 whereas Bra was born 780
I think Bra might actually be 8, she seens to be younger than Pan.
@@JackOfen In GT she was born in age 778 I think, making her older than pan, but not enough to make the design make sense. She'd be 11-12
@@powercore2000 Daizenshuu 7's timeline and GT Perfect Files, the guidebook for GT, both state she was born in 780. The only time she was stated to be born in 778 was also in Daizenshuu 7 in her bio file, but considering we have three official sources (including DBS) stating 780 was her year of birth, it's safe to say that this is official and 778 was just a one time mistake.
Yeah very weird to hear ppl were... MAD that a grown up Trunks wouldn't be an annoying prankster brat lol
Wait, GT Trunks never uses a sword?? That opening sequence Mandela Effect'd me hard
Lastly I always saw Trunks "successes" in business as either Bulma or Dr Brief covering for him, or just the fact that running Capsule Corp is so easy at this point anyone can do it.
I always assumed his assistant would cover for him. That look on her face when he leaves suggests she's done this before.
You know, I had thought that removing Goku and having a dynamic of Pan, Oob, and Bra would have been a neat substitution. Pan could have been characterized a bit closer to what we saw from the end of the manga, a cheerful girl ready to adventure in the same vein as her grandfather. She might have fit the Goku role better than Goku. She could have inherent strength, but like her father she could lack any way of channeling it due to a safer upbringing and be in over her head. Oob could have been the plucky everyman, Goku's chosen successor and the Kuririn on Namek parallel. He could have a deep sense of responsibility for living up to his mentor's legacy. In fact, if it was going to be Goku going and getting left behind by Pan instead of Goten, that would work as a really good setup. Oob believes he's getting an opportunity for new lessons in a new setting outside of Earth, but then he realizes that HE has to be the one keeping things together. And finally, Bra could be developed as a young tech genius taking after her mother and grandfather who's as bratty as she is useful. Being the daughter of Bulma and Vegeta and the same age as her brother was in the Boo arc, she could easily be arrogant and haughty. Pan's innocent leap before you look gusto and desire for adventure and Bra's overconfidence in herself have to be reigned in by Oob, while you have the possibility of Pan and Bra developing a rivalry/friendship akin to Goku/Vegeta + Goku/Bulma mixed with Goten/Trunks.
I just think it's kind of a waste to not utilize all the new cast members introduced in the final chapters. Goku doesn't even need to be fully dropped, give him an active role on his own spaceship with Trunks and Goten as they attempt to catch up to the original crew but deal with more power level action to appease the fans of later Dragon Ball while the first crew has episodes focused more on adventure like earlier Dragon Ball. And then towards the end, have them properly group together like the original Dragon Team at the end of the first arc to deal with a major threat and have them all play different roles.
Thats a cool idea
I think it would be interesting to see Bra be interested in Saiyan culture, as the only person who even know about it are Vegeta and Frieza, and one of those is the dude who killed all of them. Seeing Vegeta's kid take an interest in her father's folk tales from a dead civilization would be interesting. Maybe even have her keep the tail and by extension the oozaru form?
@@derpfluidvariant0916 I mean what culture? "Back in my day, we turned into giant monkeys, pillaged other planets, ate the corpses if they were edible and mated just to make stronger offspring. But it all got ruined by a tiny purple lizard alien man. Oh, alien races exist by the way, you're half of one" lol
@@MagillanicaLouM He was Royalty, and they definitely had legends, so at the very least they had a unique language and writing. This could be how SSJ4 is discovered, or at the very least show further insight into the only race that really ends up mattering in dragon ball. Heck, I'd honestly like for her to have a talk with her dad where she discusses traditions of the saiyans and the conversation eventually gets to the subject of names, and she finds out what Vegeta had wanted to name her. She would end up actually calling herself by that name during the fight against Baby as a sign of her reinventing the thing her father fought for, and is now being confronted with the horrors of, into something he can once again be proud of.
Obviously not gonna happen, but I just wish we got more about the Saiyan race and the stuff they did considering how much they are brought up and how central the transformations seem to be to the series' identity.
@@derpfluidvariant0916 That would be nice, but yeah despite the constant wanking of the race strength wise, the lore side of tge Saiyans is definitely not a priority of any DB writer unless it can service introducing a power up. And at least in GT, Bra's character is definitely not one made to care about such things anyway. But Super is likely a clean slate at least. Though it'd make one wonder why he didn't do it with Trunks. But never too late i guess.
I think it would have been interesting if Uub was a part of the space journey. That way we could have gotten more from his character.
Shoulda been smh 🤦🏾♂️
On one hand, Uub staying behind to defend the Earth as Goku's successor while he's in space makes sense. On the other hand, GT isn't really going to do anything with him after the Baby Arc, so it feels like a missed opportunity for him to not be on the space voyage.
@Izumi Culture You can say that about most of the Z-fighters. But people grow to like them because they were given something to do. The GT writers didn't even try.
@@TheAzulmagia Earth has normal Buu, Piccolo, and reformed Vegeta, they be more then fine without Uub around. Actually you’d think Piccolo would be more involved in this plot considering these were his dragon balls he made himself and would know them inside and out.
@@brandonlyon730 Baby can take over/‘kill’ them. (First in Vegeta’s case. Second in Piccolo’s.)
I wasn't expecting Lance to make me love Mr Satan more, but here we are.
It's funny how Mr. Satan is so annoying in the Cell Arc at first (and, admittedly, the anime did overplay his gags by a lot), but you come to appreciate him a lot more from the moment he throws 16's head onward.
Seriously though! I kinda wish we got more of the amazing grandfather and good person he eventually became in xenoverse, instead of just his Buu saga persona(though he certainly is pretty good during that arc)
8:00 God I love that Moostache, perfect little black caterpillar.
A round of applause for Lance’s excellent singing. 😁👏👏👏
GT handled Trunks better than Super ever could.
True
They def didnt screw GT Trunks over and destroyed his world and everyone he loves, barring a love interest.
Aw, the Mr. Satan drink scene is adorable. I love it.
I remember having an intense crush on Pan when I watched GT back when I was about 12 and 13 years old, thinking she was around my age too. It doesn't help that I watched the Blue Water dub where they actually used a teenage girl for her voice.
16:15
Meanwhile, Somewhere else in the multiverse: PRINCESS TRUUUUUNKS!
"Loud-mouthed, arrogant case for birth control." God bless lmaooo
9:52 Funny detail here is that the office lady in front has a strong resemblance to a woman from the town turned in into clay (She only appears in the anime)!
It's definitely not her, but it looks like her. And she's not alone, through out GT several background humans resemble background humans from the Buu saga.
10:47 I am really curious if you will have something to say about Goten's Darwin Award Winner of a girlfriend once you get there?
I love that scene of Mr. Satan and Pan at the cafe so much
That Princess Trunks song made my day.
I don't see the problem some people have regarding this Trunks. Of course this Trunks doesn't act like his younger self, because he's not. GT Trunks isn't like Z Trunks or Super Trunks, GT Trunks is older, wiser and is educated enough to run a business. Not to mention when his mother and grandfather are genius mechanics it's not that surprising that he eventually picked up on it too.
Do people really expect characters to always act the same way even when they get older? Even Goku doesn't act like his kid self 100% of the time since despite what anyone thinks of him he IS an adult even if he doesn't show it all the time. Unlike in Super these characters have aged and have moved on to different stages of their lives, especially Vegeta who has already gotten over his past issues and feelings of inferiority.
Something that’s probably obvious but only recently hit me is that the line up they end up with are three widely different generations. Goku the 52 year old who’s been there since the start, Trunks the 23 year old who got involved in the events of Buu, and Pan the 9 year old who’s now about to experience her first adventure.
Really makes you realize how much Gohan stands out of being the only new kid from his own generation.
That Disney Princess Trunks song gag was hilarious
The princess Trunks song is amazing
The best part of DBD December is that no matter what I always get a DBD video for my birthday!
Thank you so much for continuing DBD December!
18:38 you know another thing they put in the opening that they never show in the actual series: Mr. Satan IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE! I'm still pissed about that, almost 20 years later.
15:47 All hail, Princess Trunks!
Jokes aside, good singing !
UA-cam does you so dirty your vids are never recommended I always gotta go out my way every couple weeks to check on your uploads and binge a couple episodes. Love the content, have for a few years, have watched every dB related vid so far, keep up the amazing work as usual.
I don't think you're wrong there. This year, and especially this month, it doesn't feel like I'm getting any traction at all, and only around a quarter to a third of my views are coming from non-subscribers. Nobody new is finding my videos lately, and it's becoming really disheartening. Thanks for watching!
A lot of what was said has also been my thoughts on GT Trunks. Its been many years since the Buu Saga and Trunks is grown up. It makes sense as an adult that he would now be more responsible. At the same time I feel he is different enough from Future Trunks. Him escaping from work and a few of the more laid back moments for the character are an important difference for him. He may have grown out of a lot of the bratty elements associated with Kid Trunks, but unlike the more polite, compliant and intense Future Trunks, GT Trunks he has it in himself to take off just for fun or duck out for breathers.
Frankly GT Trunks is one of the more likeable and enjoyable characters of the show and I’m glad he was written as he was. I like Future Trunks, but i feel GT Trunks fits well into the show and is a good balance of many different aspects while still believably being present day Trunks.
I feel like this being the continuation of a story and cast the audience already knows gives more leeway for multi-part introductions. Like, to bolster its identity as acting like it's something brand-new the Z anime adds a lot of extra scenes to introduce Gohan, but I don't think it's really a /problem/ that it takes a couple episodes for Goku and Raditz to meet, since we're already along for the ride.
A fantastic episode! I love the deep character analysis. I've watched these first two episodes of GT more than I've watched the rest of the show... I get stuck... and then start over... then get stuck... I'm glad you enjoyed them as much as I did.
Btw, you make the same Nazawa joke with the same graphics twice in around 30 seconds and that may be a glitch from editing.
"Btw, you make the same Nazawa joke with the same graphics twice in around 30 seconds and that may be a glitch from editing."
I'm not sure if you're making a joke here or not. I mean, I'm still getting people today teasing me that they hope I'll cover Dragon Ball GT at some point, so I'm really not sure about anything anymore. I make a *variation* of the same joke twice, using different characters and different images. If that's the case, that's supposed to be there. But if there is actually an editing mistake, please let me know where it is. So glad you enjoyed it!
@@MistareFusion No, I got the joke: "Dang, we can't take either of Goku's children on this adventure, or that's gonna be way too much Nozawa per scene!"
Now I wonder if they cast Videl's voice actress as Pan just so she'd have more to do in GT.
No, Gohan and Goten are just both voiced by Nozawa, much like Goku himself.
@@MistareFusion Heya, yeah I went to the comments to check too: 10:22 and 11:22. Not sure if it was intentional, but it sure did feel like déjà vu. Also I'm just now realizing I'm 12 days late.
No wonder pan is hated
Also trunks is now the little mermaid I'm OK with this
So this shit’s gonna be 64 parts long? Cool
I doubt there’s *that* much to dissect in every single individual episode of the show.
@@PutoML dont underestimate how convoluted GT episodes can be.
He’ll probably summarized some of the battle heavy episodes.
I always was under the impression Bulma or Vegeta gave him the sword because they thought "The old Trunks from the future liked his sword, maybe that's what Trunks likes" and he thought it looked cool on him so he made it part of his outfit, even though he couldn't actually use it properly
I personally always saw GT!Trunks as a more middle-ground character. Sure, he LIKED fighting and flying free and all of that, but had given it up to the realistic reality of the whole full-time working adult. It's really hard, when working a demanding busy office job like that, to find the time to keep up on things like training or social relationships or the like. So, because he was heir to the Capsule Corps, he eventually settled down, studied through school, and became a productive member of society like Gohan did. Like most modern Japanese children are expected to do.
Vegeta's whole thing about forcing the boys onto the mission I then took as him seeing it as an opportunity to try and instill in this younger generation at least SOME of the Saiya-jin culture and drive that all three half-breed boys seem to lack. Get them out from behind their desks, force them out into the wider universe, and hopefully they'll finally find the drive to improve themselves like real Saiya-jin warriors ought to. After all, the show indicated that Pan at age 4 was stronger than a 17 year old Goten, who was Trunks's primary friend and training partner, so one could assume that Trunks wouldn't have been that much stronger either.
The fact that Trunks, who can move at super speeds (probably close to light speed if not as fast or faster) chose to duck out of the boring office for a bit to go on a flight when he could easily come back later and whiz through his paperwork with his heightened abilities and get who knows how much more done on top of that is just him letting off some steam because he can afford to. The fact the show has him do it twice to establish it's a pattern for him may be a little much without other characteristics on display as well, but episode time is limited and showing a person around the office all day doing paperwork and attending meetings would be boring for the audience to watch. Especially for young children who don't really relate to those emotions yet and when they're trying to establish the tone of the series into a light-hearted adventure series.
Or, at least, that's how I read the whole thing.
I love both of Pan's introductions, both her being an arrogant teenager who sees her child grandpa as beneath her and the child putting herself in danger to prove her family she's an adult work great as foils for Goku and especially Trunks. Unfortunately, only one can be true at a time, and I now believe she should have grown into the portrayal we saw in the first episode along the space travel.
Pan growing into that competent fighter, but still over her head character, would have worked wonders to solve another major problem with her role in the story - the damsel in distress. And no, I'm not pulling this one out of my ass, the producers and writers for GT already stated in interviews that the role they wanted to give Pan was that of the female heroine that gets captured one way or another in order for Goku to save her.
I really like Pan's design and her personality in the beginning, but mostly because it has the promise of growth that the writers, unfortunately, were dead set on never delivering! Imagine Pan going from this bratty child wanting to prove herself to her family, eventually learning the ropes of fights and not having to be rescued by Goku all the time and becoming a competent fighter, only for her successes to get over her head and she starts belittling Goku and Trunks for their refusal to charge recklessly into action as she does, eventually leading her to making a major mistake that she would regret deeply and her resolution to fix it and become a better person leading to her transformation into a Super Saiyajin!
Pan could have been the first female SSj in the lore, marking her growth as a character and giving her a really cool and official design. But unfortunately, all we have is Pan being taken away or beaten up, so Goku has to save her. It made sense in space, since it was just Goku, Pan and Trunks, but after they returned to Earth and started searching for the evil Shenron parts, having Vegeta, Goku and Piccolo on the backseat while Goku and Pan kept repeating the formula really dragged the show down for me.
PAN IS GOHAN'S DAUGHTER, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! Gohan was forced to grow into a fighter against his will because of all the aliens that kept coming into his life to kills his family, while Pan actively sought out to go into space because she wanted to prove herself a capable adult to her mom and dad! Imagine Gohan trying to put Pan on the backseat for the Shadow Dragon Saga, while she keeps trying to join the fight, not because she wants to prove herself anymore, but because she's now matured enough to understand the situation and wants to contribute with everything she can because she knows what is at stake! Gohan and Pan would work great as foils to each other, just like Gohan and Goku were opposites during the Cell Saga, which led to Goku's death because he just assumed Gohan was just like him!
This would have been a much better arc than Goku SSJ repeatedly saving his stupid granddaughter that shouldn't even be in that journey in the first place if they had Vegeta and Piccolo available!
But Pan wasn't a teenager in GT despite her design. She was 9.
Finding out that the show undermining Pan's growth was an intended feature as opposed to a bug made me so annoyed. What a waste.
@@Hydrogue A waste indeed.
As much as I hate the idea of getting rid of the damsel in distress trope (as the likes of Anita Sarkeesian would love to do), I hate the idea of limiting a character's growth for the sake of status quo the most.
There's nothing wrong with Pan being the damsel in distress at the beginning. She's just a brat getting in a situation she had no reason to be involved in simply because she refused to listen to the adults around her.
She thinks of herself as the hero of the story, but when she's put into the position of the damsel in distress quite often, that should be a wake up call for her that triggers her character growth into a proper Sayajin warrior over the course of their space journey.
But nope, throw that growth out the window and put her in movie Gohan's place - just a kid that needs to be rescued by Goku every single time...
@@BubblesChika Read the first paragraph again, but this time pay a bit more attention to how I worded it and compare to how MistareFusion described her portrayals in episodes 1 and 2.
@@TwilightWolf032 No need to be hostile. I get ya
15:50 That singing was great lol
One thing that is weirdly coherent is how characters treat kids, and how they evolve in their perception of kids.
Gohan and Goku were kids too when they started adventuring, and at the time almost everyone was ok with it.
Is this an inconsistency? Or is Toriyama and the rest of the dragonball crew smarter at worldbuilding than we give them credit? Lets see:
-When Goku was a kid he got to go on adventures because bulma was a bad influence and took him from his cozy life that grandpa Gohan taught him.
Then it became a Master Roshi problem, as he also didnt bat an eye at letting 2 kids train with him, fight almost to the death and then let these kids fight a terrorist army and a demon king.
-When Gohan was a kid, thank fuck Chi-Chi had the decency to realize that her kid shouldn't have the same life threatning experiences she and goku went through.
It's not their fault that goku was dead, piccollo had kidnapped him and the saiyans didnt care.
Altho, letting gohan go to namek might seem like bad parenting, they also didnt expect Vegeta to be there.
Its only in the Cell arch when it becomes irresponsible to let Gohan, a kid, face the super strong city sucking bug monster.
-Small Goten interlude: here they actually had a choice, they could just leave trunks and goten out of this, but Piccollo and Goku supported the idea of using them as a last resort.
-Now Pan comes along, and once again, the cast doesnt actually want her to risk her life, she tricks them.
So, as we see, the gang letting kids go on life threatning situations isnt the norm, its either the result of very specific characters that we know are very "adventurous" or straight up villains OR pure chance of bad luck/getting tricked.
Which is remained kinda consistent during Super, as Goten and Trunks usually come into battle by their own free will without the approval of their parents or of any other adult member in the party, and Pan was only brought into Super Hero because of circumstance and was kept away and safe during most of the action bits in the movie.
Its quite neat.
9:05 we all thought the same thing when looking at that building right? 😂
Yes.
"Why does that building need its own lighthouse?"
This episode makes me realize how much I wish they kept Goku as an adult.
Seeing every other character, and how they've changed with the passage of time is a nice progression to everything in the story. But Goku is the one glaring exception as he regresses into a kid making it feel like the story itself regressing a bit to keep him as the main character since that's the safer bet. Which is an unfortunate pattern GT falls deeper and deeper into as it goes on. I feel like they could have kept Goku going on the trip as an adult, but actually have him follow up to some of the lip service he paid to passing the torch to the next generation.
He only serves as a master roshi like mentor role to Trunks and Pan, overseeing the mission to make sure it actually succeeds since the earth will blow up otherwise. However he actively chooses not to intervene too much in whatever the main contention of the episode is, and gets up to wacky hijinks instead most of the time. We can still keep that adventurous feel, and make a good statement on the progression of Goku's character. It would even be a nice tie in to stuff he might have learned from teaching uub, his first official pupil. The difficult part is creating tension around fights since we all know Goku existing is a win button, but he basically becomes this anyway. At least it would feel like a new spin on the formula, which for all the faults of GT, it does try to be different from Z at the start.
That's why I respect Boruto for having the balls to pass the torch onto Naruto's son, instead of forcefully regressing Naruto to his child state to keep him as the main character
@@BubblesChika I've heard it wasn't that good, but you're definitely right on that one. If you want to make a sequel to a series about family and progression, you don't make the grandfather into a kid in the first episode.
That's my biggest issue with the group and the series as a whole. They took some risks and successfully managed to create something interesting, but at the same time, they backtracked and took the easy way out.
I think Goku should've remained an adult and (hilariously enough) turned into the middle man that has to deal with a Trunks and Pan, who as the video stated, are just not serious people.
You can have Goku leading the mission with the seriousness it deserves (while occasionally being a goof when he can) and then Pan goes along and causes chaos and mayhem because she is literally 9, meanwhile, Trunks is absolutely self absorbed on his own life, and instead of him being the middle man he is actually closer to Bulma, and in turn, Pan is instead closer to Goku (Causes chaos, moves the narrative forward by getting into fights with absolutely everyone) while retaining the same character traits as shown in episode 1-2.
I feel like this would have been a better setup as it not only feels unique and interesting but also remembers the character progression these characters had or could have in the future.
Crazy to think how if bebi cell hadn't been killed in the lab he would've showed during the time GT takes place.
Imagine Baby goes to Earth at the same time Cell's on a rampage...
Perhaps Future Trunks had to deal with his own version of Baby at some point.
This is the first of your videos I’ve seen and now I’m going to watch more
8:33 I didn't even notice that these two are base on Harry and Marv from Home Alone until you pointed it out! Does this make kid Goku, Kevin McAlister? 😜
So, Trunks is basically a DB version of Ben Tennyson in this show. He used to be a brat, but after 5 years, he is now the mature guy who can lead a team in space and operate a spacecraft.
Hey, can anyone please write a fanfiction where Ben is in GT?
So set it during the Omnitrix movie where he's going to space to find who made it and he ends up meeting the Dragon Team on their way for the Black Dragon Balls. Or does he just show up while the whole Baby thing is happening and sticks around after?
@@cyberninjazero5659
I don't know. Whatever they do, the writer just need to do it right.
I just wrote a whole comment that describes my idea, but it was erase. I will rewrite it later.
In short, Ben is a childhood friend of Goten and Trunks who can't use ki and became a superhero around 4 years after Buu was killed. Ben is 21 or 22 in GT, and while he does not have Master Control, he is worthy of it and his understanding of the Omnitrix and skills with his aliens is above Alien Force season 2.
Ben joins the trio instead of Trunks, and this is his first time in space.
Instead of going to planets that are basically Earth (I think there were at least 3 of those in GT, but I am not sure) they would go to the worlds Ben's aliens come from.
I love this video, and the fact you are doing a dissection per episode. Keep it up
I can understand the argument that "Trunks grew up and is no longer a spoiled brat," but at the same time... these are characters, not people. They don't grow up, they're written up. Changing a character in such a profound way shouldn't be done offscreen. There's writing that needs to be done to show how the character changed from one form to another.
I can agree with that to an extent. I mean, I even said that having Trunks start as responsible leaves him nowhere to grow. But I also don't think there's no room for having a character change off-screen. Depending on the perspective of the story, the nature of the change, and the intention of the information being held back, it can be a perfectly reasonable way of writing things. Case in point: if the changed character is supposed to be a major shock, then actually showing development would do little but diminish that impact. It's all about how a story is framed. Do I think Trunks is an example of that? Not at all. It's one of the reasons why I could only be partially supportive of his introduction. But at the same time, I don't think it's necessarily debilitating to introduce him in a new story, as an adult, as a changed character.
Now, I can think of an example of a Dragon Ball character changing off screen that absolutely does not work for me, and definitely weakens the story in which it is in. And that is Future Mai in Dragon Ball Super. There would have to be incredibly specific and dramatic circumstances to justify her going from comic relief villain sidekick to heroic freedom fighter who's also magically de-aged and in love with Trunks. I'm not saying all of those things can't happen, but they are so at odds with the core of her character as established and with natural logic that it feels extraordinarily lazy not to address them in any way. But a young, spoiled child growing into a more responsible but-still-prone-to-sneaking-out-of-the-cushy-office-job-his-parents-got-for-him adult... I can pretty easily connect the dots on that. It flows naturally to me. Obviously it doesn't have to for you, but "adult has changed since he was a child" is so common an idea in fiction and in life that I think it just works.
@@MistareFusion I would assume Bulma and Vegeta raised Trunks right .
@@nicholassims9837 Perhaps trunks being less of a brat was partially the result of Vegeta's change in the Buu arc that made him more humble and thus a more positive influence on Trunks, as well as being more involved as a parent.
@@MistareFusion Mai must have been atoning for when she helped Piccolo in that live-action movie
@@MistareFusion I’m surprised you didn’t mention Gohan from the Saiyan arc. You were quite frustrated with Toriyama snapping his fingers and having him change so quickly.
Do you still feel that way or do you feel differently about that plot point now?
I love content like this. Keep em coming. In the mean time I'm gonna burn through the old stuff
The first couple of episode of GT are really fun. I remember so clearly watching them as a kid in Spanish.
I agree, the trio is great. Design, relations and roles are all covered.
I'm OK with you doing one GT episode per video. Keep up the great work.
Given how ubiquious the Hoy poy capsules are, and Bulma seems infinitely rich, I actually assumed There was a much larger capsule business But we just don't see it
They shrank the business into a capsule!
Speaking of family dynamics I love Ep. 2 as it did the 1 thing I've wanted from DB since, Vegeta to stay TF home and be a dad. Seeing him with Bra just cause and dragging his two sons to do some adulting, it's tiny but I love it!
Not because I hate Goku (I love Goku...alot) or hate them being together (I do hate that tho, please stop) but because it also implied Vegeta had ended his obsessive "Grrr Kakarot!" brain rot and prefers to be home. It gave me hope that this tiny angry man I love had finally found peace. Also very beautifully sung parody, love that we now have 2 alternate versions of Princess Trunks 😅
I much preffer that aproach over what DBS choose for vegeta....
It does inevitably mean that Vegeta doesn't actually do a whole lot through the entire show; his next major appearance after this is getting possessed by Baby and then he's out for the remainder of the arc and he doesn't do much in the Super 17 arc either.
So it probably wasn't too shocking when the Shadow Dragon saga kind of..regressed him back into "Grrrr Kakarot" because no way they weren't going to end the show by not giving Vegeta a new power up to keep him and Goku on par , but they at least kind of flip it by having HIM be the one to suggest fusion for once...and then immediately have him be pissy about it when they have to do it again...
@@sonic5993 I like that 1st part tho lol! I don't need Vegeta to do things when the requirement is it must be done with Goku and their dynamic has to stay as "Grr Kakarot"/"Lol Vegeta". So the start of GT felt like I was gonna get what the previous "rivals" to Goku got, closure and moving TF on until sadly it didn't and I was disappointed despite overall liking GT.
I do love Vegeta openly wanting to protect the Earth so it made some sense that he'd be more active to local physical threats but I just wish DB, GT to now, was written more consistently as an ensemble akin to say Yu Yu Hakusho instead of still being stuck with Vegeta and Goku doing nearly everything together. I know fans and...certain fangirls love that tho, they've been eating good for many years but I am not one of them 😖
Despite my issues with DBS Super Hero (WHY NO KAGEYAMA!?!), daring to allow Uncle Grandpa Piccolo and Gohan be in main active roles was very enjoyable but even there Vegeta still had to be stuck with Goku so I'm not get my hopes up that the status quo is shifting.
@@ThexDynastxQueen I'd argue YYH wasn't even, because its still very much Yusuke's story; its just that the other main characters have ongoing subplots too...except Kuwabara and sure enough, Kuwabara gets less screentime and relevance until he's written out of the series altogether.
You could do that with Vegeta, but I don't think it would ever be accepted. Look how many people got annoyed at how Piccolo was treated until Super Hero came out, he may as well have not been around for what he contributed.
@@sonic5993 I agree it's Yusuke's story, no disputing that but I was more saying that he isn't the sole protag with everyone else in support roles, all 4 have to be there to move forward as each are uniquely powered...even Kuwabara to a degree lol. So even when Yusuke is "technically" the strongest he nor anyone else can fight everyone as all opponents are also uniquely powered as Chapter Black showed if the Dark Tournament wasn't enough evidence.
Thats why I loved YYH, it avoided DB's still ongoing problem by using Ki differently which allows for alternating characters. So when any YYH character fights an enemy that was a must watch but when DBS Vegeta fights solo I knew the outcome 99% of the time without reading/watching because Goku isn't also fighting. Only the TOP got the closest but when competing with modern and even decades old battle Shonen, it just wasn't as entertaining to me. The highlight of that whole arc for me was daddy just wanting to stay home lol.
So I am in the minority of enjoying DB for it's character interactions and slice of life moments vs it's fights now so I want a Vegeta that DB is never gonna fully commit to. Thats why I'm here instead of at DB UA-camr #43253 "How much stronger is MUI vs SSGIDon'tFuckingKnowAnymore" videos 😅
My Dragon Ball dissection December has been marathon of DBD. What a series! Glad to have found it.
From what I've seen so far, it does seem to be a bit of a trend that Dragon Ball GT often takes two episodes to do what could have been accomplished in one if it really wanted. I wonder if it was just trying to match the pacing of the previous shows that had to stretch the content of short manga chapters released concurrently.
I also wonder about the hypothesis that the original plan was for the quest for the black-star balls to last an entire year of real time, a plan that was definitely changed by the time Baby escaped to Earth and finding the last three balls became a rapid afterthought.
Admit it… you did this format on purpose… one episode per video. I absolutely love it. I don’t blame you, Gt has a lot to talk about, especially if you’ve been reading the manga in its original unaltered Japanese form. Trunks in how he grows up compared to his alternate future counterpart is… honestly very sad. Sure he is the heir to Capsule Corp, but at what cost?
I always thought that the present-timeline Trunks' brash character was due to not only the sense of life-threatening danger but also the strong presence of Vegeta. The main thing that Future Trunks lacked. He's more Bulma by default.
Dang. I never realized half of that stuff with trunks! And I do very much like him in this series tho.
At the rate this is going your review of GT will be longer than GT itself! More GT the better lol.
Yooo that princess trunks song was fire though
The Princess Trunks song😂😂😂😂👍🏽
You're amazing just for the singing alone.
I am actually a bit surprised to hear that people thought GT Trunks was just "Future trunks shoved into the regular timeline" or whatever. Yes, this no longer a chlid Trunks is reminiscent of the other one, but that should be a given given that they're alternate reality counter parts. What is more, in this timeline, Vegeta not only survives the Androids and Boo (well, sorta survive that one), he in both accounts parents better than his dead and staying dead counterpart, specially after Boo. Not only that, he had that entire rather rumbling experience with Boo, and not only did he have a better Vegeta as a living parent, he had the entire gang as positive influence. He was no longer trying to stand up to and impress a still distant and hard on the emotion showing front father that Vegeta was pre-Boo (better than his dead AR self and better than he was before Cell, but still far from a model parent). if he had remained a spoiled Brat after all of that, now this would not be verisimilar.
Also think your theory about Vegeta and trunk's motivation is good, and better than you give it credit for. In the translations I have watched, Vegeta specifically says that he chose both of them because they have been slacking on their (martial arts) training. Trunks only pull the "what about the Capsule corporation" card because he didn't want to go to space. Which is what I think does show that yes, he was successful, but he was also slacking off in general and wasn't actually pushing his limits either mentally or physically. Sure, he was very good at running the company it seems, and in good part it is because he had excellent teachers, who were literally geniuses (mom and grampa), and it is the capsule corp. with their unique tech (little competition). And while the results were technically even considered great, he was settling for doing just "good enough" and wasn't even able to do his duty throughout, even if his enough meant it was already excellent by many people's standards, becaue he woud just skiddaddle out of his duties once he did "enough". He was merely coasting along physically and mentally after great headstarts on both fronts. Compare to Gohan who was continuously pushing himself mentally and still kept physical training to at least maintain what he had accomplished before in GT. Trunks was perhaps even excellent by most people's standards, but that attitude was definitelly not up to Vegeta's and he was having none of it. And also no surprise he jumped at the chance to send his just coasting-through-life boy to space to steel himself up just like he used to do when he was his age (albeit for entirely different reasons and under entirely different circumstances). So I think the idea that he lacks challenge is absolutely true, Vegeta was mostly right here (if not entirely right), and it does not contradict his apparent success because that is not what Vegeta was going on about (it is not that he wasn't good enough, it was his life attitude). There was an itch he couldn't scratch, but the difference is that he himself wasn't aware of it, but mustache Vegeta got him to straigthen up.
After watching this video, I thought a few things about GT Trunks, but I am too lazy to write them 🙃…
One thing I find interesting is how this Trunks rarely shows up as playable in video games. Even Budokai Tenkaichi 3, which feature multiple Trunks, doesn't have a GT Trunks. And that game have characters like Future Gohan, Zangya, Drum and the 4-star fire Shenron (whatever his name is)
Tbh I believe the reason GT Trunks hardly appears in video games is because he came off as more of a nerd/thinker than a fighter and if I'm not mistaken,he didn't even have much fights and for the few he did have usually involved him getting his ass kicked so quickly that he can't even show off any new techniques. So why waste time making another Trunks when you can just reuse his much cooler future variant. I think something similar could possibly be said for GT Vegeta,I hated that they changed his hairstyle,why would Vegeta ever go to Gohan's barber?
Great video, as always. I have a suggestion for a fun video, your top 10 favourite dragon ball characters. Since you like the characters for their personality instead of their power level I think it would be an interesting list.
I’m glad others agree that GT Trunks is their favorite
14:13 Where is Trunks' nose? I thought he was half human and half space monkey man but is he part skeleton as well? Does Bulma have some skeleton blood? Maybe she had a grandparent that was a skeleton.
I guess it's a shadow that didn't work out quite right?
When Trunks is going Super Saiyan in your thumbnail it looks like he has pig tails. In fact, he kind of looks like Madoka Kaname, lol
Wait, if Pan is 9, then Bra must be... 8?! Man
Ah, yes Dragonball GT the series we saw presumably a adult or teen (They can at least Drive) hitting on an 8 year old girl
*Edit* so it turns out the minimum driving age in Japan is 18. So, yeah even worse.
Gts timeline is the only example of a time where I prefer the change the dub made because of shit like this
Seriously with the clothes Pan and Bra wore in GT, you can't blame most fans for assume that show takes place 10 years instead of 5.
I assume even the writers forgot some of the specifics, given how later in the series Bra is seen driving a car.
@@Hydrogue When? I thought Vegeta was the one driving; unless I'm forgetting about some other scene
You have a fantastic singing voice👍
Thank you!
Vegeta looks Mexican now.
I've wondered for the longest time why they couldn't simply ask shenron or porunga to recall the black star balls.
Maybe it's the same logic that kept them from wishing away Vegeta and Nappa, Shenlong can't recall Dragon Balls with power that exceeds his, or something like that. The Vegeta and Nappa thing doesn't make much sense either.
They could. They just didn't want to. Because then there wouldn't be a series. Keep in mind all the wishes that worked from space in the kid Buu fight.
@@Gardetrace it doesn't take much power to create a small hole in a space ship or change its course so it goes into a star or black hole.
@@Gardetrace Oolong wanted Shenron to explode Vegeta and Nappa's ships in space, thus killing them. The other characters stopped him because that would mean Goku wouldn't come back to life, since Shenron can't revive anyone that has been dead for over a year (so yeah, Resurrection F can't happen).
There is no rule that states they can't use one set of Dragonballs to call for another set in canon. But even if there was, they could have solved the issue with creativity and empowered Goku's shunkan idou to sense the Dragonballs from across the universe and teleport the cast to its immediate location, for example.
There being one set of Dragonballs left on Earth they can use at any time ruins the premise of GT. In hindsight, this could have easily been fixed if the original Dragonballs had been used prior to the Black Star ones scattering across the universe (in true Toriyama fashion, for something vane, like Chichi and Bulma asking to be young again, like Bulma said she would do at the end of Z).
Or even better, no Black Star Dragonballs whatsoever. Pilaf tracks to normal Dragonballs all the way to Dende's Lookout, stupidly phrases his frustration at seeing an adult Goku as a wish to make him into a child again, and when he realizes there is a second wish (which he didn't know, since he wasn't there for the upgrade in the Cell Saga), he uses it to wish for the Dragonballs to scatter across the universe in a fit of rage and stupidity, only to realize he let the one chance he had of realizing his dreams of being the king of Earth slip by his hands because he wanted to torment Goku by getting rid of the only way to turn him back into an adult.
I think what I wrote falls more in line with Toriyama's brand of humor connecting to plot progression than what GT did.
@@Gardetrace They probably could've as easily wished away Vegeta’s and Nappa’s spaceships leaving them both to suffocate and die in Space.
Funny enough, rather than the Baby arc, I just consider this the Hunt for the Black Star Dragon Balls arc. The wish to turn Goku into a child is what causes the journey, which leads them to Baby, who ends up collecting them for his own ends once he’s unleashed, and then the wish to create New Planet Tsufru is what ends that story due to Earth exploding and Piccolo dying. The story is honestly more about the Black Star Dragon Balls than it is about Baby a lot of the time!
I really wish Uub was part of the space adventure.
I just realized that there's going to be a video released on Freeza Day! 🎁
I think that Vegeta thought that both Trunks and Goten were the only adult saiyans that didn't travel through space yet. Trunks did travel in time but never step foot in another planet like him, Goku, Gohan and every other Sayan ever. Vegeta might've thought that this was an important event for a Saiyan to experience and they should go.
I argue also the possibility that Trunks was groomed to inherit his Maternal family's company and he has a similar evolution in character as his mom
When Baby tried to control Trunks, it felt like a call M Vegeta but was good that Trunks didn't take after him
Until a few episodes later
I really enjoyed the Part Of Your World parody
I understand the mind set especially considering how tight this was after the end of Z.
Then Goku, Pan and Trunks seems like like a good trio. What I remember Goku and Trunks being more used to working togheter. Pan having a crush on Trunks and they both can relate on trying the logical path while Pan and Goku butts head or sometimes have fun playing. Even if I wish hindsight could have used Uub somewhere maybe still Goten and Trunks and Pan with or without Bra.
Honestly it just feels Pan who written in the prior part and this part are two done by two different writers. Hence why they come off so different. Well besides the Mr. Satan scenes he has with her.
I always thought it was weird Vegeta has no desire to go though considering his experience with traveling through space. It would have also given an interesting study into Vegeta facing his and his people's past with Baby a direct manifestation of the latter.
Vegeta's too busy trying to grow a cooler mustache.
The only problem is that Vegeta wouldn't have wasted time with all the bullshit. He would have blown up General Riildo, Dr. Myuu and Baby right away and we would have no arc.
@@marksunboxingzone Would be far more entertaining tho
Vegeta should have went instead of Pan. Vegeta, Goku, and Trunks would have made a good story. And good comedy too lol
Same with Piccolo, after all these were his Dragon balls he created himself and threatened the earth. You’d think his Kami would want to take responsibility for this as soon as he hears about and help out, rather then much later on after so much nonsense happened to finish it with a pointless death.
The Recommending Ones & Zeros apologizes for the devastating and overwhelming distress that must have happened while waiting on our blessing.
15:50 GRIFFITH!!
First of all great video Lance,loved as always.
Now I do have a suggestion,what if the "responsible" role was filled by.... Vegeta.
The issue I have with this Trunks is that,like you pointed out,we don't see how he becomes this mix of both Kid Trunks and Future Trunks,a mix that I don't think it even works that well,making him feel like diet Yamcha but with Vegeta we have all of his screen time to make up for it.
He specifically lets Gohan home because he should be taking care of his wife and daughter, and chooses Trunks and Goten because he wants them to grow up,which should be crazy coming from him of all people yet it makes perfect sense,heck he stays because he wants to take care of Bra,but Trunks could take her of her.
Besides just think of much fun would be having Vegeta having to deal with Goku's and Pan's shenanigans ultimately having him be princess Vegeta.
But seriously he could pass as a straight man much better than Trunks, as his now strong friendships with Goku would be a great contrast with Pan,which sees her grandpa as beneath him,yet this space murder (specifically to Goku no less) has so much respect for him do to their history
Plus he would much more tech savvy than Trunks especially regarding alien technology and you know....the villain.
Either way I like this group so I don't really mind,just a thought I had
Give how much screen time Vegeta had in DBZ (and later in the future DBS) it would not have been as original. Vegeta also would blow everything up for his solution to problems versus using logic.
@@AutumnPlainsIdk,GT Vegeta is shown to be MUCH different that DBZ Vegeta so I actually don't think he would have gone for "fuck you big bang attack" for every problem but he would be more prone to action than trunks for sure.
I also dont think it's fair to use the exposure Vegeta gets in Super a whole 20 years after GT as a justification for not including him.
My biggest problem with not having Vegeta in the first arc is that he just kind of....comes back at the end of the series with no real build up to fight Omega Shenron which is kinda lame.
Don't get me wrong,he is great once he comes back but it just feels like the writers realized that Pan and Trunks didn't work so they fell back on Vegeta as a crutch,which worked mostly well while still being jarring
Gohan and Pan at 9 look older then 13 year old Goku. 😂
Bonuspoint for the song
I kind of think Trunks is there because the creator were trying to recreate the beginning of Dragonball. So, while you have Bulma as the straightman (kinda), you have Trunks - her son - fullfilling that role. Plus he's a fan favorite. The only problem is that Bulma actually has a character while Trunks... is a fan favorite. Bulma and Goku's chemistry worked because while she was the straightman to Goku's weirdness, Goku was the straightman to Bulma's essentaricties. So the two complimented reach other in different areas. Goku's an innocent fish out of water, while Bulma is a bratty know it all in over her head. When you have Pan taking Bulma's "negative" traits, but not the positives, it hurts both the side characters traveling along Goku. At least that's what I think.
wait how old is trunks in GT? 23?
Also, I really love how drastically the characters have changed. It's the opposite to Super where the characters haven't changed at all (Trunks and Goten don't even look older).
Your Turunksu song is genious 🤣😎
Everyone is certainly taking the one year death sentence in stride. Why are they only making one spaceship with one dragon radar?
started devolving to the narrator from the stanley parable at the end there.
Yeah, I'm one of those people of the opinion that Trunks is mostly in GT to be a stand-in for his future counterpart as calculated attempt to recapture the popularity of that character. It is interesting to see a different analysis though, even if I'm not sure I'll ever really be able to buy into it.
What I can fully get invested in is the continued analysis and contrast of Pan. For better or worse she's sorta the face of GT. A character who both had so much potential, but that she doesn't really ever quite manage to live up to, often being relegated to the scrappy heap by fans of Z who see her as emblematic of everything wrong with GT.
To be clear, I'm absolutely not one of those latter types of fans. I love Pan, or at least I want to. It's also why I'm so very eager to see modern Dragon Ball finally reaching a point in the story where she's old enough to be a character. I really want to see her get the second chance her pedigree deserves.
Love your videos
Thank you! My videos love you too. They told me. :-D
MistareFusion, what did you think of Vegeta's new look with the cut hair and the mustache?
I mean if have both Bulma and Vegeta telling you to knock your shit off and grow up you're probably gonna.
The coffee gag is quite surprising