OOPs - Unfair 9mm Comparison - Standard Pressure Gold Dot & Black Hills XTP VS Federal HST+P
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2023
- I had no idea until deep into the video that the HST was a +P. Thank you to my Patreon supporter Observer Will for sending this ammo. I am testing the 124 gr Speer Gold Dot 9mm VS the 125 gr Federal HST 9mm+P VS the Black Hills 124 gr XTP in a 10% Clear Ballistics test. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
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Filmed 6/3/23. I had absolutely no idea until later into the video that the Speer Gold Dot and Black Hills were the only standard pressure rounds but the HST was a +P. My Patreon supporter graciously sent this ammo to me for free but the tiny little "+P" on the HST box was overlooked by him as well as by myself, so I do say some things in the video like "I looked at all the boxes and all were standard pressure" and this is totally true. FEDERAL - MAKE THE +P DESIGNATION ON THE BOX LARGER PLEASE - Anyways, this video does show how much even 9mm+P can boost the performance of an already powerful cartridge.
IF YOU DONT STOP APOLOGIZING I'M GONNA QUIT YOU -- ANY COMPARISON IS VALID & INTERESTING - ALL YOUR TESTING IS MEANINGFUL - LET THEM EAT FISH HEADS & RICE& RUN DOWN THE BATTERIES IN THEIR ELECTRIC PICKLES IF THEY WANNA COMPLAIN - I FIND YOUR METHODS OF TESTING VERY INFORMATIVE
@@jimnagel5611 Well this wasn't an apology, was just some facts.
@@GunSam IF YOU'RE HAPPY WITH THAT I GUESS I AM TOO
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No worries Sam!
Great video. No doubt you are now aware that your 40yard drill was done in about 7.5 seconds each time. That’s half the time allowed for the drill.
Thanks to you and Observer Will for that test. I wanted to change my 9mm carry ammo, and just bought that very same HST+P yesterday. So this test really benefited me.
You made an honest mistake and you corrected it. No harm done and we all enjoyed yet another useful and informative video. I appreciate the way you made the best of it in the comparison of recoil and shootability of the standard vs. +P
And now we know to pay close attention to what is on the box. Excellent work.
Thank you for the short barrel. “Concealed Carry Size Gun”!
I don't consider it hardly uneven. a the bullets really close in distance and the expansion was wonderful on the three brands. so I consider all 3 up winners. the way ammunition is hard to get in some places of the country if buyers can get 1out of the 3brands its.a.definit win. the only thing better is reload ING for maximum efficiency. another wonderful video. Papa 😊
HST 9mm +p 124 grain is my favored home defense load in my Ruger security 9. Nice video. I’ve always loved the results I’ve got while testing that HST ammo on meat targets.
Excellent video, I'm actually glad it worked out this way as I found it very interesting.
I've had the same issue when searching online for Federal HST +P. Every search popped up ammo with no +P designation on it so I never bought any and just kept looking for some. Finally I came across a seller who showed multiple pictures of the box and showed the ridiculously located +P designation. Unfortunately it was also ridiculously priced so I had to pass on it.
Thank you
Tried ammoseek?
@@rob6850 I use it for pretty much all my online ammo shopping.
@@brandiwynter First place I looked without ammoseek was Lucky Gunner. They have the HST in a 124+P in stock for $50 for 50 rounds, which is about the same per round or a little less than the 20 round boxes.
@@GunSam Thanks, I'll check them out.
★ Good to know that the common size carry gun with standard pressure is ok if so many are using it. Good video.
I liked the side by side comparisons and your analysis!
Thank you.
Very informative ammo test, thanks for your efforts
Thx for another awesome vid! So, i carry the federal 124 gr standard pressure in my p365x. I saw a vid comparing the +p & the standard out of a p365. The standard penetrated marginally deeper but well within acceptable parameters as per the FBI protocols. Both expanded equally well. So, performance wise, the difference out of a 3" barrel seems to be negligible. That is with the caveat that while the test in that vid did use 4 layers of denim, it did NOT use an intermediate hard barrier to simulate ribs/sternum.
All these are fine so it comes down to personal preference. I use standard pressure 9 mm in compact pistols because they are less snappy and less wear and tear on the gun. Thanks for another quality comparison video. You should go over 100k subscribers soon.
Thanks. Will probably be a year to a year and a half before I hit that many. I mean, it's only been 16 years into my channel lol. Got to 'love' the guys that come out 3 years ago, put out really bad content then surpass me easily.
No one really knows all the ins and outs of typical standard pressure and European 9mm well below 35,000 psi vs 35,001 to max 38,500 psi. Nothing wrong with a little caution even if the end results don't give amazing longevity. I personally don't overstress any of it, I'd shoot +p+ everyday if I could afford it as I know that nothing is going to blowup and 9mm pistols aren't worth taking care of lol.
Actually my agency's range guns shoot more than that in a week so it uses standard pressure rounds. No problems as long as the springs are regularly replaced.
@@GunSam I recommend your channel to everyone at the local range, and my friends, relatives and coworkers, active duty and retired. Keep up the good content, you will get there.
Been watching you for years and truly think you are required viewing for new gun owners! Thanks for sharing your passion with us GS! And bring back that jugornot box 😊✌🏽👍🏽
Great comparison and test. Excellent choices. All are great options. Thank you
Thank you
Thanks for sharing your reviews and keep them coming please.
That was a great video. It was a great three rounds to compare.
GS. Good video. Thanks again for sharing. Always something interesting. Take care.
Thank you, take care as well.
I enjoy your videos, thanks for posting them
Excellent comparison & video ! All (3) rounds seemed to perform adequately if you adhere to the FBI standards , and I'd load my 9mm with any of the three . However , the XTP configuration would be my last choice . XTPs' seem to lack expansion in just about all the calibers , but they make up for it in penetration . IMO , the Federal HST round appears to be the best choice . Thank you for what you do , and as usual.........GREAT SHOOTING !
Good video as always. Thanks
Thanks young fella.
Great testing, thank you! Look at how old the GDs are yet still relevant. Std pressure 124GD shoots so soft in something like a G19. HST in 147gr does nicely and shoots soft in a micros like Hellcats and P365s. I wouldn't carry 9mm if all I had was ammo from the '80s. Those bad old days required 45ACP or the OG 357.
In a lot of respect, the people who say 9mm is a good cartridge and compare it to others...are not really comparing the "9mm", rather they are usually using one that manufacturers like Speer, Federal and Winchester (to name a few) took and tried to fix all of the 9mm's shortcomings to create a different cartridge altogether essentially. Sort of like there's 9mm, and then there is "modern 9mm" with different nose angles, pressure limits and material tweaking to make them perform 'about as good' as a basic old school .45 ACP or .357 Mag hollow points.
@@GunSam Agreed. Combined with the best ammo and marksmanship I consider the 9mm to be adequate. Accuracy is required with any service caliber but where a 230gr FMJ in 45 or a 60 year old SJHP in 357 work well I find the 115gr FMJ in 9mm somewhat lacking for a leg/arm/gut shot on an assailant. All are fine for a central nervous system hit. I very much enjoyed your testing of boutique and unusually powerful 38spl. That's another caliber I find adequate given accuracy and the best ammo.
This is why I carry 40cal from a short barrel if I'm going to get around 1050-1100fps I'd rather have a heavier bullet
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BTW: Any hits you made at those ranges are that many more than i would have at those ranges, lol.
Thanks
I'm carrying Underwood loaded with Gold Dot bullets. I've been a long time fan of Speer Gold Dot in several calibers. I'm with Sam, I don't buy Hornady
Some Hornady stuff is okay, like micro caliber ammo like .32 auto, .32 H&R and all of that is a bit better with Hornady Critical Defense than Gold Dot.
No worries. I like the xtp’s I use Hornday American gunner 115 g in my G2C at 20 yds it’s spot on.
For many years I found the +p HST to shoot more accurately at 7 yards than the standard pressure out of a variety of barrel lengths. The +p would group tighter and closer to the point of aim. I've noticed recently the difference has gone away and they tend to have the same accuracy. Knowing little to nothing about loading and reloading, I have no idea why the difference was there originally, nor why it now appears to be gone.
As a handloader, I have experimented with charge levels, taking the same bullet design and loading at 1/10th grain increments. What you will see is groups get smaller when the charge goes up, then maybe get bigger going up a little more, then when going up hotter than that, they tighten back up and so on. Starting charges often have inconsistent velocity and accuracy due to powder sloshing around in the case. One thing that is exclusive to higher charges that would make a small cased round like 9mm different - is consistency. Being powder packed, the powder won't be sloshing around in a case so you overall consistency of velocity which in turn leads to consistent accuracy is there.
@@GunSam interesting. Thanks for the insight.
Damn Sam! You're a scientist at this! I had no idea you load too. I'm just finding your channel a few months ago, but the info you put out is very thorough and thought out. I'm glad the algorithm found you 😊
Three excellent rounds! Very fine video presentation! What pistol are you using? Thanks!
Great video as usual. My only complaint with the HST is that they keep promising it in revolver calibers, but it never seems to happen.
I carry the HST in my .327 Federal Ruger LCR.
Gosh, you do a nice job.
I have a Taurus G3C 9mm with a lakeline 3.53 stainless steel barrel and a lakeline stainless steel guide rod assembly. I use the 115gr +p+ gold dot LE
Elijah Dickens used a Glock 19 with stock sights, loaded with Blaze FMJ ammunition, supposedly.
The guys with suppressors are likely shooting 147 gr but there is less testing on them.
147 was also the oldschool law enforcement weight due to them not shifting direction much when encountering auto glass.
You were shooting the Dicken way faster than neccessary for a par time!
No way for me to know. Seemed like I was shooting too slow at the time.
@@GunSam you were shooting at about 7 or 8 seconds.~ Half the time allotted: )
I have to say I lean more towards the Gold Dot and XTP myself. HST does have good expansion and that wows a lot of people. But IMO penetration is much more important.
I carry Gold Dot 115gr in my Hellcat Pro. Figure 115 is going to faster than a 124 and have a better chance of consistently expanding. Plus 16 rounds of 115 is a little lighter to carry through the day haha
Btw you shot good with the G2C
PPU Subsonic 158 grain RN. Overall bullet length of .740 inches and muzzle velocity of 825 FPS
My first encounter with the Gold Dot ammo was when Speer sold it under the Lawman brand. There was a time when I was carrying 9mm, and that stuff shot quite nicely. Based on this testing, I would probably go with the cheapest of the three. Although I do have mixed feelings about the XTP bullets. As a reloading component, they are great because they are cheap. Although I gave up on hand loading auto calibers due to brass lossage. I'm actually not loading much of anything lately. The issue I have is that the XTPs just don't open up all that much unless you put some serious speed behind them. Although, as I've mentioned in other comments, penetration has become pretty important to me.
Yeah same here with hand loading. For a time I was hand loading .45 ACP but I gave it up once the spondylitis diagnosis came a few years ago. Was almost like clockwork though, that 50 rounds fired always totaled 42 empty brass I would find afterwards. After 1,000 rounds that's 160 cases that vanished. I have dozens of pounds of .38 Special brass lol. Not sure how many, maybe 50 lbs of brass or maybe more.
★ Yeah, losing brass can be a problem. I'm guessing that you mean in the grass. Might try a cheap metal detector.?
@@charlesmudd9834 Another issue (which is not a bad thing) is that 9x19mm is cheap ammo. I know competitive shooters reload it. But they're really serious about getting the lightest load that will cycle the gun.
@@GunSam Dang! If you had the tooling, you could take the non-plated brass and melt it down to make solid brass bullets. I'm not entirely sure if they would be legal or not under armor piercing bullet regulations. I don't think a typical Lyman kit for casting lead bullets would get hot enough to melt brass either.
If you had time for making lots of low power practice loads, you can get a lot of uses out of those cases before they split. I found with 44 Magnum that it is not necessary to do a full length resize with low power loads. I don't know how long the brass lasts because I never split a case!
@@charlesmudd9834 When I was loading a lot, I went as far as making this tarp wall. Didn't increase the number I recovered. ua-cam.com/video/jEnWfLMqnhg/v-deo.html
You'll have to take that HST....AND USE IT!!!! 😁
The Gold Dot looks like it did the most damage. I have had bad luck with HTPs.
Ammunition should always be marked on the head stamp if it's +P.
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Hi, my friend. Do you trust the Taurus firearms?
Depends on the firearm. I have had good and bad experiences. If it were something like the G2C or G3C or other Glock clone semi autos, they work. With their revolvers you need to really shoot a lot to vet the revolver and also have to do things to make them right like loctite screws, polish parts and whatnot. I have had reliable revolvers and unreliable revolvers from Taurus.
👍😊🎯
Bump
First.
The total penetration is measured to the end of the bullet track in the gel. Not where the bullet rests after bouncing back.
Yeah, everyone knows that and that is why I measure the track and not where the bullet rests. What is your point?
@GunSam it could be the angle of the camera then, but it doesn't appear like that is what you are measuring. There was another recent video of yours, from a couple days ago, I believe, where it appeared the round penetrated somewhere around 11 inches but bounced back quite a bit and you stated it penetrated to that point, which was like 8 inches or something like that. That one seemed far enough off that the camera angle didn't appear to be the culprit in the difference between what the track length appeared to be and what you stated the penetration was.
Those Taurus G series pistols are not very accurate because they have a horrible trigger.
I think the trigger is okay.