Yes sir, since the beginning of COVID Hornady has made a lot of poor changes and has gone down the tube. I first started moving away from Hornady when a lot of companies started coming out with their premium pistol ammo in 20&25 round boxes. Hornady had their xtp ammo out for a couple of years being sold in 50 round boxes. All of a sudden Hornady started selling the same xtp loaded ammo in 20 or 25 round boxes and charging more money than it used to sell the xtp 50 round boxes. That is when I went 100% gold dot ammo for defense loads
Great no-nonse and too the point video! HST is today’s KING for police/defense use. My X-employer (retired 34 years in LE for one of the largest agencies in the U.S.) has issued the 147gr for about the past 10 years now. They tested both 124 vs 147 standard and +P versions. They found with actual “street” shootings over a two year period, that there really was no difference on 2-legged zombies as far as performance between the two weight classes. They all worked equally well, so my former department stuck with the 147 grainers. They found that in gel/barrier testing, the only real difference and slight advantage went to the 147 gr when it came to penetrating car windshields, car doors and hitting the target deep enough beyond the glass. The 147’s tended to penetrate slightly deeper on soft tissue after passing through windshield glass or car doors, whereas the 124gr penetrated slightly less. I’d be happy with either or…. It doesn’t really matter. However I had to make a personal decision for what I wanted stocked up at home ended up investing heavily with the 147 non- +P’s. The +p’s in my own humble and worthless opinion, just adds extra wear & tear “beatings” on a pistol, that’s simply not needed. Both weight classes also EXCEED above and beyond out of a PC carbine rifle, with amazing results. The longer barrel of a PCC adds nearly 150fps to the bullets and they mushroom in soft body tissue like a mushroom cloud. I’ve used the 147 on legal deer hunts out of a PCC on my property and they are impressive for a hand gun round. …but I still prefer carrying regularly the .40s&w 180gr, because it’s just a “bigger” hammer delivering more “OOMPF” to its target. That’s just me though.
I appreciate the real world insight. I would guess in most those scenarios you'd be using. 4" G19 or the longer G17 (or similar)? The velocity out of a 3" barrel is the only reason I hesitate to carry the 147 and personally feel more comfortable with the 124. Otherwise, I think they are the best factory 9 option on the market. To me it's also interesting the deals that can be found currently in the marketplace on these rounds vs most other self-defense offerings. To me it's a 'get them while you can' situation with prices sub $0.60/Rd now.
@@NorthwoodsTesting The 147gr in a micro is a total waste. Micro's need smaller gr to be effective. Though no one should be using micro's unless you got a bigger round.
Federal definitely removed some of the performance with these on the redesign, they don't expand as much as the old versions. The old Golden Sabers were also top notch, but since Remington went out of business and stopped production, then was bought and the line relaunched, nobody has tested them. So the quality is up in the air on those now. Speer also shit the bed on the Gold Dot when they put that weird, hot glue like filler in the tips for a short while. They turned a proven round into a very expensive FMJ and are still working to regain their original reputation after that.
The budget friendly ammo that you purchased, is using a Sig V-Crown projectile. In Sig's branded ammo, these projectiles give excellent results, in all of the gel tests I have seen. With or without clothing barriers.
I daily carry the HST 147 gr standard pressure. But Gold Dots are also excellent. These are widely accepted and thoroughly tested "Duty Rounds". There are a few great brands and quite a few good brands, but these two are among the very best (IMO).
Gold Dot 9mm 124 +P is what I have the most real world experience with. After putting down many four legged animals with it , it has only taken one shot with each animal and it was quick. In the distant past I used Federal Hydra Shok 9mm 124 standard pressure. That was a very accurate round.
Im a diehard HST fan boy. Its a no brainer for me .over engendered maybe but i trust it to feed and go bang every time .i like that the primer and bullet have a sealant to protect cartridge integrity. Its worth the extra money to me for the extra trust i feel .thanks for the video.
Very interesting video. I am a HST guy to the core and keep my EDC Taurus G3c loaded up with 124 grainers. I can pick them up locally, too, at a reasonable price, so that's a plus. I'm going to check the American Munitions site to see if theirs are available yet, because that kind of performance at $.30 a round is kinda hard to argue with.😄
Nice test. I would like to add that I personally look at other aspects of the load as well as bullet performance. I like that HST, Speer, and others use a no flash powder. I also am a fan of sealed primers for my carry loads. I have reloaded all my own practice plinking rounds for over 30 years, that being said I still use HST or Speer as my carry rounds. Just something to think about for you and your followers.
Maybe its an older Hydra Shok design. It looks like Sig Sauers V crown also. I bet some of the big bullet makers don't sell their exact hot new bullet to others to load it. They could easily make a couple small changes so they aren't having to compete against their own hot new (HST) bullet. I have seen Sierra do some private labeling, wholesaling to other large ammo companies (like V Crown Sig Sauer). Your test of the 124 Fed tactical HST vs the 147 Gr confirms what I have seen everywhere, the 124 always beats the 147 in depth by about 1inch. I just grabbed a 50 pc box despite the premium price, but it is a premium carry ammo. They don't make HST in 115gr that I wanted. I also picked up several 100pc boxes of Rem UMC 115gr HP that I can target shoot, plink and carry. It does good in all the tests I see. Its not quite as good as Federals HST's but I wont wince shooting them at a target or practicing with them. I hope they are similar in point of impact. Also the Federal HST look like the bullet and the primer have the blue sealer on them. (probably making them waterproof for special forces or LEO)
@@NorthwoodsTesting I'm sure your right , your the one their with them in hand. I just wish we knew what it was, or even If American Reloading is going to have it back again in their inventory.
The 124 grain HST is still king above all else.. the only other that compares is the +p 124 grain Gold dot.. the 115 grain XTP is a good budget alternative if you can find them around 50 cents per round
I think the Federal HST's are too, but Hornady beat them out for the National Federal Law Enforcement ammo contract, because of barrier defeating. They have that FBI test protocol of 3/4" plywood then 18" air space then into the denim/gel test. Same with a drywall wall, and 2 spaced sheets of 20 gauge steel and another thru a automotive safety glass at compound angles. The Hornady went thru all of them and then 12-18" deep in the gel every time. (partially because of its smaller expansion.) The Federal HSTs couldn't do this as well. I still think the Federal HST is better for 99 percent of us, Federal expands bigger and has great depth penetration with their newest design HST bullet thru heavy clothing into gel. If your worried about barriers like car doors and windshields, maybe Hornady Critical Duty would be your ammo. I would also look at a solid copper, like the G9 Defense or Norma NXD or LeHigh Extreme, also proven barrier blind projectiles. In HP expanding ammo, I still like the Federal HST like you tho.
@nicholashigley5566 It's not "Do you need to?" it's "Can your lawyer defend you doing it?" Answer is still no for 99+% of shooters, but when looking into ammunition for defense scenarios you have to consider remaining lawful.
For home self defense this is exactly what you DONT want. Over penetration and more lethal penetration after going through walls and 2x4 barriers inside your house to kill loved ones in a home defense round. Law enforcement situation is different. @@PatriotPaulUSA
The company says 'they are loaded by a commercial manufacturer to safe specs'. That's it. But, I do now, finally, have picked up a chronograph and will provide more info after more testing.
I was just thinking the same exact thing on the specs. I’m looking forward to the new chrono and the data of those American Munitions definitely a nice looking round.
The nose profile of your American Munitions round looks a lot like Precision Delta’s V2 (Version 2). I use these PDs for hand loaded Range/Drills ammo- they are very accurate bullets. And the HST performance? About as good as it gets. Their +P 124s are my carry ammo.
I agree with another commenter, I have not personally tested the WWB, but seen vids where they don't do too well. Remington's UMC seems to do better and I do have the 115 grain of those that I may test in the future.
Those budget rounds kinda look like an HST honestly.. for budget bullets i usually go for 115 grain XTP's or 115 grain Winchester White Box or Remington UMC.. haven't heard of those that you have but they look good
That company, American Munitions, does use de-milled components. It is possible the bullet was an HST that didn't meet contract specs. Still not sure, but it seems to perform well for the price.
Im willing to bet those American Reloading rounds are pulled or blem HST projectiles, it looks like an HST and they sell pulled and blemished HST projectiles
I've been trying to find someone testing the new version in 124 grain +p and so far this is the closest I've found. Also they're nickel plated brass casings, not true nickel casings.
500 rounds of hollow points for $150 is a great price. I pay 26¢ to 30¢ a round for blazer FMJ target ammo and them AM rounds was close enough to the HST rounds I would feel perfectly safe carrying them in my EDC. I wish I could afford to practice with 100 or 200 rounds of the same ammo I EDC. I spend at least three days a week at my range and use 25 to 100 rounds of the same ammo I carry the rest of the day I use blazer FMJ and I go through 200 to 500 rounds a day.
The problem is you guys are all using micro pee shooters which is going to make these or any bullet for that matter suffer in performance. The extra inch or 2 when CC doesn't make all the difference in concealment. It however DOES make a difference on performance. If you need to carry a short little gun at least get a .357.
Dude lmao, they still expanded good which is more then enough, what more do u want? Not everyone wants to carry a full size, especially people who move around a lot. I carry a m&p 2.0, 3.6 inch barrel and shoot 147 grain through it and it preforms fine. Unless it’s competition it’s completely different. As long as it expands good and does what it needs to do you’re fine.
I'm a die-hard HST guy, but the American Munitions did pretty dang good, especially for the price. Great test, buddy. 👏 👏 👏
Unfortunately that stuff is long gone. Oh well, Hopefully we can all find a new good quality inexpensive HP round.
I too am an die-hard HST guy. I carry the 9mm 124 normal pressure in my Glock 26.
I stock my G26 with 147 gr HST.
Yes sir, since the beginning of COVID Hornady has made a lot of poor changes and has gone down the tube. I first started moving away from Hornady when a lot of companies started coming out with their premium pistol ammo in 20&25 round boxes. Hornady had their xtp ammo out for a couple of years being sold in 50 round boxes. All of a sudden Hornady started selling the same xtp loaded ammo in 20 or 25 round boxes and charging more money than it used to sell the xtp 50 round boxes. That is when I went 100% gold dot ammo for defense loads
Great no-nonse and too the point video! HST is today’s KING for police/defense use. My X-employer (retired 34 years in LE for one of the largest agencies in the U.S.) has issued the 147gr for about the past 10 years now. They tested both 124 vs 147 standard and +P versions. They found with actual “street” shootings over a two year period, that there really was no difference on 2-legged zombies as far as performance between the two weight classes. They all worked equally well, so my former department stuck with the 147 grainers. They found that in gel/barrier testing, the only real difference and slight advantage went to the 147 gr when it came to penetrating car windshields, car doors and hitting the target deep enough beyond the glass. The 147’s tended to penetrate slightly deeper on soft tissue after passing through windshield glass or car doors, whereas the 124gr penetrated slightly less. I’d be happy with either or…. It doesn’t really matter. However I had to make a personal decision for what I wanted stocked up at home ended up investing heavily with the 147 non- +P’s. The +p’s in my own humble and worthless opinion, just adds extra wear & tear “beatings” on a pistol, that’s simply not needed.
Both weight classes also EXCEED above and beyond out of a PC carbine rifle, with amazing results. The longer barrel of a PCC adds nearly 150fps to the bullets and they mushroom in soft body tissue like a mushroom cloud. I’ve used the 147 on legal deer hunts out of a PCC on my property and they are impressive for a hand gun round.
…but I still prefer carrying regularly the .40s&w 180gr, because it’s just a “bigger” hammer delivering more “OOMPF” to its target. That’s just me though.
I appreciate the real world insight. I would guess in most those scenarios you'd be using. 4" G19 or the longer G17 (or similar)? The velocity out of a 3" barrel is the only reason I hesitate to carry the 147 and personally feel more comfortable with the 124. Otherwise, I think they are the best factory 9 option on the market. To me it's also interesting the deals that can be found currently in the marketplace on these rounds vs most other self-defense offerings. To me it's a 'get them while you can' situation with prices sub $0.60/Rd now.
@@NorthwoodsTesting The 147gr in a micro is a total waste. Micro's need smaller gr to be effective. Though no one should be using micro's unless you got a bigger round.
Federal makes 150gr micro load. Waste?@@RogerBrenon
@@docdreezy In a micro..Yes. Might as well use an airsoft.
Everything you just said. And for all the same reasons. G35 loaded with 180gr HST'S resting on the bedside nightstand
You can't go wrong with HSTs, Gold Dots, or Sig Elites, but my favorite are the HSTs. 👍
right there with ya
Federal definitely removed some of the performance with these on the redesign, they don't expand as much as the old versions. The old Golden Sabers were also top notch, but since Remington went out of business and stopped production, then was bought and the line relaunched, nobody has tested them. So the quality is up in the air on those now.
Speer also shit the bed on the Gold Dot when they put that weird, hot glue like filler in the tips for a short while. They turned a proven round into a very expensive FMJ and are still working to regain their original reputation after that.
The budget friendly ammo that you purchased, is using a Sig V-Crown projectile. In Sig's branded ammo, these projectiles give excellent results, in all of the gel tests I have seen. With or without clothing barriers.
They do and much cheaper in most cases. They also have a M17 ammo in a plain cardboard box which is cheap if you can find it.
GREAT REVIEW!
Everything without any fluff….well done 👍
I daily carry the HST 147 gr standard pressure. But Gold Dots are also excellent. These are widely accepted and thoroughly tested "Duty Rounds". There are a few great brands and quite a few good brands, but these two are among the very best (IMO).
Agreed. In 9mm gold dots are very good. Cost-wise, HST can be found for less. So overall I give the edge to the HST.
I don't care what anyone says Hornady bullets don't compare to HST or Gold dots.. there good, but they aren't HST or Gold dot good..
You should have told us this Friday. I bought the Hornady Critical Defense 9mm +P
@@MemphisMojo15s some agencys use hornady 9, its good stuff
@@dancruze that is good to know. I appreciate that
Agreed. Fed Punch performs also.
@@MemphisMojo15sThe FBI issued the 135gr Hornady Critical Duty 9mm rounds to their agents.
Gold Dot 9mm 124 +P is what I have the most real world experience with. After putting down many four legged animals with it , it has only taken one shot with each animal and it was quick. In the distant past I used Federal Hydra Shok 9mm 124 standard pressure. That was a very accurate round.
🇦🇺😎👍Good science mate but if the jelly contraption was clear it would give a better view. Great video🏁
Excellent video ! Thank you for sharing.
Exact test I was looking for-big HST fan. 34 year LEO.
Im a diehard HST fan boy. Its a no brainer for me .over engendered maybe but i trust it to feed and go bang every time .i like that the primer and bullet have a sealant to protect cartridge integrity. Its worth the extra money to me for the extra trust i feel .thanks for the video.
Very interesting video. I am a HST guy to the core and keep my EDC Taurus G3c loaded up with 124 grainers. I can pick them up locally, too, at a reasonable price, so that's a plus. I'm going to check the American Munitions site to see if theirs are available yet, because that kind of performance at $.30 a round is kinda hard to argue with.😄
Nice test. I would like to add that I personally look at other aspects of the load as well as bullet performance. I like that HST, Speer, and others use a no flash powder. I also am a fan of sealed primers for my carry loads. I have reloaded all my own practice plinking rounds for over 30 years, that being said I still use HST or Speer as my carry rounds. Just something to think about for you and your followers.
Picked up the 147gr for my fpc. That added barrel length will boost fps to make up for the weight
Maybe its an older Hydra Shok design. It looks like Sig Sauers V crown also. I bet some of the big bullet makers don't sell their exact hot new bullet to others to load it. They could easily make a couple small changes so they aren't having to compete against their own hot new (HST) bullet. I have seen Sierra do some private labeling, wholesaling to other large ammo companies (like V Crown Sig Sauer). Your test of the 124 Fed tactical HST vs the 147 Gr confirms what I have seen everywhere, the 124 always beats the 147 in depth by about 1inch. I just grabbed a 50 pc box despite the premium price, but it is a premium carry ammo. They don't make HST in 115gr that I wanted. I also picked up several 100pc boxes of Rem UMC 115gr HP that I can target shoot, plink and carry. It does good in all the tests I see. Its not quite as good as Federals HST's but I wont wince shooting them at a target or practicing with them. I hope they are similar in point of impact. Also the Federal HST look like the bullet and the primer have the blue sealer on them. (probably making them waterproof for special forces or LEO)
I don't think it's a Sig or a hydra-shok. For one, it expands better than both through heavy clothing and second, doesn't have the general look.
@@NorthwoodsTesting I'm sure your right , your the one their with them in hand. I just wish we knew what it was, or even If American Reloading is going to have it back again in their inventory.
That projectile is a dead ringer for the Fioochi Defense Dynamic 124gr JHP.... the round nose, external flutes and trapezoidal opening...
The 124 grain HST is still king above all else.. the only other that compares is the +p 124 grain Gold dot.. the 115 grain XTP is a good budget alternative if you can find them around 50 cents per round
I think the Federal HST's are too, but Hornady beat them out for the National Federal Law Enforcement ammo contract, because of barrier defeating. They have that FBI test protocol of 3/4" plywood then 18" air space then into the denim/gel test. Same with a drywall wall, and 2 spaced sheets of 20 gauge steel and another thru a automotive safety glass at compound angles. The Hornady went thru all of them and then 12-18" deep in the gel every time. (partially because of its smaller expansion.) The Federal HSTs couldn't do this as well. I still think the Federal HST is better for 99 percent of us, Federal expands bigger and has great depth penetration with their newest design HST bullet thru heavy clothing into gel. If your worried about barriers like car doors and windshields, maybe Hornady Critical Duty would be your ammo. I would also look at a solid copper, like the G9 Defense or Norma NXD or LeHigh Extreme, also proven barrier blind projectiles. In HP expanding ammo, I still like the Federal HST like you tho.
@nicholashigley5566 It's not "Do you need to?" it's "Can your lawyer defend you doing it?" Answer is still no for 99+% of shooters, but when looking into ammunition for defense scenarios you have to consider remaining lawful.
For home self defense this is exactly what you DONT want. Over penetration and more lethal penetration after going through walls and 2x4 barriers inside your house to kill loved ones in a home defense round. Law enforcement situation is different. @@PatriotPaulUSA
Interesting Video, Do you have any specifications on the American Reloading rounds, Muzzle velocity & Energy?
The company says 'they are loaded by a commercial manufacturer to safe specs'. That's it. But, I do now, finally, have picked up a chronograph and will provide more info after more testing.
I was just thinking the same exact thing on the specs. I’m looking forward to the new chrono and the data of those American Munitions definitely a nice looking round.
@@NorthwoodsTesting Ok, Thank You Sir.
Really nice information
The nose profile of your American Munitions round looks a lot like Precision Delta’s V2 (Version 2).
I use these PDs for hand loaded Range/Drills ammo- they are very accurate bullets.
And the HST performance? About as good as it gets.
Their +P 124s are my carry ammo.
Good video. Have you tested Winchester white box 147 grain hollow points as cheaper ammo. Have a good day
I've seen some videos of people test the 147 WWB and it doesn't expand reliably. The 115 WWB do okay.
I agree with another commenter, I have not personally tested the WWB, but seen vids where they don't do too well. Remington's UMC seems to do better and I do have the 115 grain of those that I may test in the future.
Those budget rounds kinda look like an HST honestly.. for budget bullets i usually go for 115 grain XTP's or 115 grain Winchester White Box or Remington UMC.. haven't heard of those that you have but they look good
That company, American Munitions, does use de-milled components. It is possible the bullet was an HST that didn't meet contract specs. Still not sure, but it seems to perform well for the price.
Im willing to bet those American Reloading rounds are pulled or blem HST projectiles, it looks like an HST and they sell pulled and blemished HST projectiles
Could be. I only wish I woulda ordered more
Great video. I love hst
nice results ...
Thank you for the video 📹 👍👍
That one bullet really looks like a sigsaur elite bullet but that's and guess on my part.
I've been trying to find someone testing the new version in 124 grain +p and so far this is the closest I've found. Also they're nickel plated brass casings, not true nickel casings.
500 rounds of hollow points for $150 is a great price. I pay 26¢ to 30¢ a round for blazer FMJ target ammo and them AM rounds was close enough to the HST rounds I would feel perfectly safe carrying them in my EDC. I wish I could afford to practice with 100 or 200 rounds of the same ammo I EDC. I spend at least three days a week at my range and use 25 to 100 rounds of the same ammo I carry the rest of the day I use blazer FMJ and I go through 200 to 500 rounds a day.
I wish I would have bought more of those rounds when they were available. I really do prefer practicing with carry rounds.
They available for AMMO but $0.48 per round.
Great video ❤
How you get thatrearsight on your ec9s..I'm looking to improve mines
The EC9S has frame mounted sights. Mine is the LC9S which has replaceable sights, though mine are factory.
What are the velocities?
TBD
G3c doesn't really like reloads
Which grain is best for a 3.7 inch barrel
124 standard or + p 147 for 4-5 inch
If you load your own, check out GT Bullets 130g Hp with top end load of AA#7 is EXTREMELY accurate, and fast! Expansion in water is 69 caliber!
Reloading is a hobby I plan to pick up in the future. Can't seem to find the time right now for it.
Can you do 124 vs 147 XTP
Hmmm. I think I have a box of the 124 grain American Gunners somewhere. I'll see if I can dig those out and find some 147s.
@NorthwoodsTesting thank you.
FFS, don't try to save a few cents on your defensive ammo. It may cost you your life.
Now, those ballistics gel blocks are only $80 to 160 USD, might invest in a new set of blocks to see through.
You should get a better microphone because all I hear is Darth Vader breathing.
147 HST’s all day / everyday
Biden & Harris's Folly = 26AUG2021
Algorithm
The problem is you guys are all using micro pee shooters which is going to make these or any bullet for that matter suffer in performance. The extra inch or 2 when CC doesn't make all the difference in concealment. It however DOES make a difference on performance. If you need to carry a short little gun at least get a .357.
Dude lmao, they still expanded good which is more then enough, what more do u want? Not everyone wants to carry a full size, especially people who move around a lot. I carry a m&p 2.0, 3.6 inch barrel and shoot 147 grain through it and it preforms fine. Unless it’s competition it’s completely different. As long as it expands good and does what it needs to do you’re fine.
can't find american munitions. web searches only pulls up freedom munitions. They do have a gold dot round.
adding hydrogen peroxide can help clear those blocks up so you can actually see.