Defining Drum Chops (Finally) | The Drum Department 🥁 (Ep.33)
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2023
- Drummers always talk about “chops”. But what IS a chop? What makes it different from a fill?
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Fills are little transitions inside a beat or rhythm, OR between beats and chops is usually a term to describe a.) a proficient amount of skill in technical ability on the drums (that dude has chops) or b.) A specific technical fill itself ex. "oooh the chops in that part were crazy"
Trying to specifically attach the standard of "chops" to modern, Instagram and UA-cam and internet drummers is just too reductionist, too specific.
Chops existed before then, way before then. 50's, 60s, 70s drummers had shit ton of chops. Under the modern usage of chops, you're implying those old drummers didn't display great chops.
A chop is your unique way of applying rudiments around the kit. Like the Dirk blast.
Listening chops, the art of listening to the ensemble in which you are playing music with. This is the most important skill a musician will ever possess.
Chops: The orchestration of musical phrases and “licks” based on rudimentary skills that vary in complexity, and often woven together to express one’s musicality, proficiency and unique voice on an instrument.
Drumeo is such a godsend, always on point with the vids
Fill is any combination of notes that consume time other than playing the repeated time pattern. Chops- means you are proficient at playing smoothly through composition acutely, with dynamic expression,feel, and confidence.(any instrument player can have "chops") =skill that the listener can appreciate or be moved by.
My take on Chops is: Any/every subdivision of a time signature that is spontaneous & clean, regardless of the tempo, accents, phrasing or rudiments
I got right some answers. This was fun! Thank you guys!
I always thought of chops as what we developed in marching band doing stick pattens and cadences, rudiments building up muscles and stick speed ect
My humble opinion is a fill is a specific pattern which is either written or predetermined as a transition from one section of a piece to another. A lick is a rudimental idea which is used as a fill or groove. A chop or chop playing is a mixture of rudiments around the kit, played in no specific order, and from memory on the fly. Things we practice on the kit that suddenly show up at a gig!
Chops are to drums as shredding is to guitar. I always think of it as fast, virtuosic playing that usually comes off as intricate and complex in nature.
I like to define ‘fills’ not as fills per-say but as a part of the songs overall groove - momentum and rhythm. The theory being that this increase the likelihood of everything that one plays being as clear - articulate and musical and purposeful and intent based as possible and adding to the cohesion of the songs flow, rather than merely being played to ‘fill a gap.’
So I guess ‘chops’ is the abilities and vocabularies the drummer has at their disposable to play what’s appropriate to do the above and support and enhance the music they are drumming to. A hopefully practical definition in the sense that it reminds one to use one’s vocabulary and technical skills to serve the song appropriately and not using the song to show of and apply one’s techniques and abilities inappropriately/ at the songs expense.
all very talented
Chops! That thing you did after you said "i can get a million ideas just from that."
That was chops!
chop+fill = chill
For me personally,
A fill: a rudiment used as a transition in a piece of music. IE: from verse to chorus, from chorus to verse, from chorus to bridge, ect.
A chop:
Definition 1: seemingly high level or seemingly difficult improvisational expression around the drum kit as a prelude or prolude to a fill
Definition 2: an undetermined amount of notes played in extremely rapid succession, seemingly moving around the beat, as well as around the set, or, a flex.
I think "Chops" are the "tricks", a certain combo of mostly singles or doubles ( the paradiddle, herta, blushda etc) and "fills" are the musical improv, to improve the music, using chops to create a certain sound. And then some fills can turn into new Chops, to create endless musical practice-turmoil. And in the end, it comes down to : how are your singles and doubles? (speaking from my own experience ) Wich are "chops".😄 Take care Y'all.
Having a great job's today's Brandon Toew
For me a fill is a musical pattern that acts as a transition on a song, that's recognizable but doesn't take the whole protagonism. A chop is a mostly improvised pattern that's made to impress and make a protagonist out of the drummer, like a mini-solo moment.
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@JaredFalk-. yes
I'm only a 15mins in so forgive me if any of this eventually comes up.
I like to think of "chops" like the cooking skills of a chef: It's not about any one dish they can make, but their overall ability to whip up a wide range of tasty meals, and to do it well EVERY time.
So for a drummer, "CHOPS" is their overall drumming skill - how well they can play, how fast, how clean, and how many different kinds of grooves and fills they can pull off.
It's not any one rhythm, pattern, sticking or phrase, but their total package of drumming abilities.
In other words, we can say that:
●Technical proficiency + a rich Vocabulary of rhythms and patterns= CHOPS
●Drum Fills: Specific rhythmic figures used to signal transitions, fill spaces between phrases, and add variety to a song. They can range from simple to complex patterns across the drum kit.
●Licks: Pre-composed, distinctive patterns a drummer might frequently use, serving as their personal rhythmic signature. Eg. a Dave Weckl lick, a Vinnie lick ..a Larnell Lewis lick.
So, a fill isn't a chop, but your ability to execute fills or grooves cleanly, quickly, and musically can be a demonstration of your chops.
My 2 cents
In regards to Steve it's small sections of what he does that is the chop but he strings loads together
Multiple chops in these songs:
Close to the edge: Bill Bruford
Knife's Edge: Carl Palmer
I think of chops as building blocks. You can build fills and more from them. They also point to skill...As in you hear someone play something really cool, and you say: That guy has chops. It's skill shown in short segments.
Whats the backing track with zach grooves? I like it and wanna jam to it
Fills are the ones that lead music into the next part. Chops are the ones that you see alot of in jazz and gospel drumers do, it's the often small and intricate little things they drop in their grooves.
I had always learned that "chops" were basically the quality of your hands. Like if you were a good player with good hands you had "chops' granted this was mainly in the marching percussion world
Skillz and fillz
They are called chops because that is a shortened version of chopping wood. We used to get together Before & After church Before & After school and chop wood. Whoever had been practicing the most had the most wood chopped off of their sticks. This term was passed on to me in the seventies and eighties by my drum teacher who grew up through the fifties and sixties..chopping wood. If you look under a player's drum set you? Will. See all of the wood that has been chopped from how much they are practicing. If you are not practicing or you are not practicing with enough energy you. Will not have these pieces Of chopped wood below your set.
FUNNY THEORY! READ MINE.
I also subscribe to this theory, but I assumed it came from “woodshedding” as a slang term for practicing because that’s where you would have both chopped firewood, and practiced you licks 80 years ago.
Fills are your job, and chops is your resume of many jobs you’ve had before.
Could you make one episode for CONCERT TOMS and one episode for NYLON TIP/WOOD TIP please?? 😃😂👍🏻 (I really don’t know what concert toms are, I’m a beginner drummer)
Didn't "chops" come from "gospel chops", an intricate style of grooves and fills, using mosly16th triplets, 32nd notes, and odd groupings, mostly in linear fashion. In addition, single pedal double 16th trips/32rd notes, to free up the hands to move around the kit.
This is my guess, before watching the video.
you ride in a pocket when you're in the groove. you riff when you're being creative using your chops. you play a lick to fill between song transitions. you play a chop when the pattern looks like chefs knives choppin up the head.
It’s interesting cause other musicians don’t use the word “chop” in the same way drummers do. I’ve never in 20 years of guitar playing heard a lick or riff referred to as “a guitar chop.” I think more generally “having chops” means you’re a solid technical player. I always assumed it came from the old phrase “woodshedding” for practicing because that’s where you would go to “chop,” whether you’re chopping wood or licks. I figured it was some old jazz cat colloquialism where “choppin’” became synonymous with practicing because of that woodshed connection but maybe I’ve just been wrong about that for a decade lol.
I've always felt that chops are more superfluous to the song... Kind of showing off because you can. Like a guitar shredder shredding for the sake of shredding. Not always bad, especially sometimes in a high energy live setting. Can potentially piss off your band mates, especially if you step all over something they're doing.
Just my two cents
exactly what I think chops are
Tengzu Heydays for drums???????
One question.. where is Jared Falk?
I think chops is an adjective describing playing the drums with beautiful purposeful execution. The best example I can give is Keith Moon when he played in 1971 Live at Leeds. His chops were excellent. His hands moved smoothly and whatever he played instantly flew from head to hand to drum. Then in 1978 during his last recordings, his chops were diminished due to lifestyle, lack of practice and just not touring. His drumming was still memorable and good but his playing was sloppy. There was a hesitation in his execution.
Damit licks
As a non-musician, I can see the vocabulary definitions changing can cause confusion. Personally, anyone has “chops” in any discipline, if they are particularly talented and proficient in their sphere. Something to keep in mind when presenting material….the likely general education the average person has access to : the dictionary….is their point of reference. By this definition, all the drummers you presented have “chops”, and the highlighted “phrases” in the clips were, variously “licks”, “runs”, “fills”, etc.
i want that track 30:09
I'll start again years ago nobody talked about licks on drums it was always chops, what does that tell you
So what I’m getting is that chops aren’t about what you play. It’s how you play it?
100 years ago nobody talked about clicks for drums it was always chops
isn't chop like 'shred'?
Mainly chops
chops, rudiments played within a song or fill, idk thats how I see them
To me chips on drums is the same as shredding on the guitar.
Stupid autocorrect.
The first one a fill section one is a chop …I’m waiting for the third one ……..
If I sat down and you handed me a paddle to decide chop or fill, I'd just throw the paddle in the corner. It's not that type of question...
Sorry, chops are not identified as a category like licks, hooks and fills. If a guy "has the chops," he is not just someone who plays (at) an instrument, he's a musician who has a unique and flexible ability to innovate, adapt and play anything, anywhere, whatever you want/have/need. i. e. ... "Does this guy have the chops to be able to play with us/them?"
You don't individually identify someone by his "chop" (that was bad... 😆). Someone "has the chops" to play a part/gig, etc. or, they don't. "Chops" = ability. A fill is a transition, that's unanimously agreed. A lick is a broken down piece of a groove or phrase. But "Chops" are the individuals ability to use those components to stand out from everyone else as a unique entity, a voice in the crowd, etc.. So, in that one sense, "a person's chops are identified as/by his/her unique voice."
Kyle's statement about having a bunch of chops to keep in your back pocket that you can pull out anytime is the closest you can come to identifying chops as individual pieces like licks or fills. It boils back down to overall ability.
Therefore, by being able to be a standout from the rest,, "they have the chops." Period, end of discussion. 😊
The guy at the barbecue was off the chain (maaaybe a little overplayed) but, that singer was so off key/bad it made it hard to concentrate on the drums. 😆
0:25 weird CGI... 🙃
Breaking news it sounds better slow and it's harder to play with feel
Chops are Pork, and Fills are Stuffing.
Chops
Chops is a long fill with a lot of ghost notes
clicked on zack - got no zack - frustration
Hot take. All chops are fills but not all fills are chops.
C'mon people. Chops are what people who shred on the drums do😂
in my opinion chops are not something that is played. „having chops“ just means to be able to play complex stuff relaxed and in a musically meaningful way.
There are chops in that but it's not all chops
not trying to cast aspersions- I’m a big fan-but does anyone else feel awkward at all that at 7:14 they list four or five Black drummers of “the guys” playing chops, yet there are no Black drummers in the room?
Facility=Chops A "chop" =not a thing and is actually a lick.
It’s all just playing drums. You play or you don’t play. How “good” you are doesn’t even matter.
I think "chops" is a noun. You can have good chops and bad chops. Chops aren't inherently good. You need to work to make your chops better.
Sorry I don't know his name
All chops are fills but alll fills are not chops!
First
Consider this, there is no such thing as a chop, only chops, as in that guy got chops but you can not play a chop.. that would be like playing a skill
The guy with one arm is talking about chopping. Yall are brutal and NEED to be cancelled.
Clicks sorry
This main guy is reeeeeeeally nice but jesus it's hard to listen to him. Like trying to listen to my friend's cheesy dad talk about drums. I need a cool guy in the hot seat. Sideline this dude pls.
COME ALL BACK TO ETYMOLOGY: "CHOP" COMES FROM A FRENCH WORD AND GOT SAME ETYMOLOGY AS "SHOCK" (SCHOCK IN GERMAN): IT IS A STROKE.
THE FRENCH SENSE DISTINGUISHING FROM SHOCK WHICH IS MORE REACTION OF VICTIM OF THE CHOP, IS THAT IT ALSO MEANS "CATCH" TODAY.
SO BASICALLY AND METAPHORICALLY, IT MEANS BOTH SHOCKING AND CATCHING.
BUT CATCHING WHAT? NOT PEOPLE OR ANIMAL OR MUG ("CHOPE" IN FRENCH) OF BEER LIKE FIRST SENSE BUT ATTENTION OF SPECTATOR, AUDITOR.
TO REACH THAT, YOU MUST MAKE SOMETHING SURPRISING AND DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND AND THE MOST YOU WILL PUT DIFFERENT CHARACTERISTICS OF MUSIC IN THAT PARTICULAR "FILL" (I WILL EXPLAIN THAT TERM AFTER SHOWING HERE THAT A CHOP CAN BE A FILL AND A FILL A CHOP LIKE TWO INTERCEPTED ENSEMBLES LIKE OFTEN IN TERMINOLOGY) OR NOT, THE MOST IT WILL BE COMPLEX BECAUSE GETTING IN MORE WIDE WORLD OF POSSIBILITIES AND THUS, LESS OBVIOUS.
FOR INSTANCE, MAKE A BUZ ROLL CAN BE THE FASTEST (IN MUSIC: HIGH FREQUENCY) COMPOSITION, BUT ALSO PARADOXICALLY THE MOST SIMPLE BECAUSE SAME DURATION STROKES ON SAME INSTRUMENT WITH ONLY TWO HANDS WITH SAME STRENGTH: ANYONE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING, EVEN NOOBS AND MOREOVER, IN MILITARY DRUMMING, THE BUZZ ROLL (DOUBLE OR TRIPLE STROKE ROLL) IS THE MOST COMMON AND RELAXED THING JUST TO ORNAMENT THE BEAT AND PACE OF SOLDIERS.
ON THE CONTRARY, CHANGE INSTRUMENTS, USE THE FOUR LIMBS (NOT ONLY TWO), CHANGE DYNAMICS, STICKING (=NUMBER OF STROKES PER LIMB AND ORDER OF ALTERNATION), RHYTHM, MELODY, CHORDS, MEASURE, BEAT, SUBDIVISION, ETC MAKE YOUR COMPOSITION MORE HARD TO CHOP (CATCH, UNDERSTAND) AND PARADOXICALLY CHOPS YOUR ATTENTION ON HIGHER DEGREE (BY CATCHING YOUR SURPRISE AND THINKING FEEL AND PROCESS).
ON THE OPPOSITE (OR NOT), "FILL", GERMAN WORD (ENGLISH BEING HALF GERMAN, HALF FRENCH LANGUAGE FROM NORMANS AND ANGLO SAXONS AND PERHAPS BIT CELT TOO) MEANS TO MAKE AN EMPTY SPACE "FULL" (SAME ETYMOLOGY).
IT MEANS IN MUSICAL COMPOSITION A SPACE OF FREEDOM IN SCORES, A BLANK LEFT ON WRITING WITH AN INCITATION WROTE ABOVE FOR THE MUSICIAN (INTERPRET SO HERE ALSO COMPOSER) TO "FILL IN" OR "FILL IT" MEANING NOT ONLY IMPROVISATION (ON CONTRARY OF WHAT YOU SAY) BUT ALSO POSSIBILITY TO EVEN MAKE JUST A SILENCE BECAUSE THE GOAL IS NOT TO CONTINUE THE COMPOSITION WITH SAME THING (OR IT GOT NO SENSE) BUT ON CONTRARY "BREAK" THE BORING CONTINUITY OF IT (HENCE IN FRENCH THE USE OF WORD "BREAK" (IN ENGLISH IN THE TEXT= CASSER IN FRENCH) FOR FILLS WHICH IS FROM LATIN ORIGIN WORD IN FRENCH "REMPLIR").
SO BASICALLY YOU CAN MAKE A CHOP AS FILL AND AND A CHOP IS NOT OBLIGATORILY A FILL (IT CAN BE A REPETITIVE PHRASE LIKE "50 WAYS TO LEAVE YOUR LOVER" BY STEVE GADD, IN VERSE (THAT'S PRECISELY THE GENIUS OF IT LIKE "COME TOGETHER" INTRO FROM RINGO STARR OF THE BEATLES)).
QED
PS: I JUST DIDN'T MENTION THAT TERM IN MY 500 PAGES OF METHODS BECAUSE ALL IS PROGRESSIVE AND CLASSIFIED BY CONCEPT OF PLAYING AND AFTER ALL, "CHOP" IS KIND OF SUBJECTIVE APPRECIATION (FOR MY PART, AFTER 35 YEARS OF ALMOST DAILY STUDY OF DRUMSET AND A LOT WITH MATHEMATICAL COMPLETE COMBINATORY APPROACH, I AM NOT EASILY SURPRISED).