This has nothing to do with the lawsuit, but since you opened up with the FSU vs GT game in Dublin, I just wanted to throw out that the FSU Rugby Club will be playing Trinity College in Dublin at 5:00 PM on Aug 23rd, the evening before the football game.
What about Phillips extending the deadline for ESPN to make a decision without getting approval from all the parties involved. Why is that not coming into question?
If TJ‘s observation about the regionality being redacted from this contract is correct, then wouldn’t the expansion of the agreement into California and Texas be a breach contract?
It sounds like ESPN has ALL the power. The ACC is NOT going to negotiate to let FSU go. Why would they? FSU should become Independent, and refuse to play any ACC team, including Miami.
My thoughts exactly! Also, the ACC bylaws require 2/3 approval of the Directors for the Commissioner to give ESPN the extension. I haven’t seen evidence of that approval
Thought in contract law the when their is ambiguity loke how or where a dispute will be held that courts sided woth the party that did not write the contract. Would this not apply here?
Unfortunately, if they leave, they forfeit the ACC payout. That’s why no one has announced their intention to leave the conference. The courts will have to clear it all up before movement is made.
A party can not receive a windfall from a breach of contract. For the acc to receive money from clemson and fsu it would require that espn lower the overall payout to the acc. If espn keeps the payment the same if schools leave then no damage is done no contract violation by the acc to espn. Which would mean the value of fsu media rights to the acc would be zero. Since the contract remained the same.
@@mattlippiatt1273 the courts will have to clear it all up. Anyone who says that FSU leaving the ACC doesn’t affect the conference is lying or just unaware. It would definitely hurt the value of the conference overall. How ESPN calculates the media payout or how the ACC distributes the money to its members hasn’t even been challenged by any of the plaintiffs. It’s apparent at this point that no one is breaking the GOR by leaving the ACC. This is all going to go through the courts and again, the courts will have to clear it all up for us to actually know the what, how, when and eventually the where do they go from here saga.
The exit fee is the only issue that actually has any precedent in this whole mess. Maryland was able to leave with a reduced exit fee. They ended up paying 60 percent of the original exit fee. It’s the GOR that has everyone at a standstill on expansion.
@Almighty5-ww1kl you can go to the pickens public index. In last name buisness type clemson date type select actions filed then put a date sometime in March then select the case 2024CP3900322 from there you can view everything that's been submitted so far in the case.
The ACC is toast. I don’t blame teams for wanting out. I mean, the conference is so weak that their undefeated champ missed the playoffs. Beat out by 2 one loss teams from superior conferences.
FSU is out. Acc may hold rights to home games until 2027 but we're out for less than 140 million if we're out before 25. Take a three year B12 contract, get AAU accredited and B1G it up in 28. Go Noles!!! >>>-------;->
No to Big12. The Big12 Commissioner was using FSU and Clemson to get media eyes on his conference. Accreditation is not a requirement to join B1G but needs to be worked toward.
Independent is best route if B1G is not an option right away. Do not be scared of Independent schedule. FSU was Independent before joining the ACC. B1G needs to be the long term goal for many reasons. Fear the Spear!
Contract and grant of rights is up in 2027. If renewed, so are the grant of rights. Now i know why jim phillips has been mad an entire week bumpin his gums. ACC LOST!
Didn't this channel promise a big revelation this week in the documents being disclosed and challenged ESPN to cover the story? What happened? July was a big dud and this story has become a complete dud. The FSU "insiders" and fans set crazy high expectations for immediate results for what will be a long legal process.
@@DoubleFriesNoSlaw So much spin I'm getting dizzy. Nothing of significance happened this week or the past month. ESPN didn't announce they weren't renewing. FSU and Clemson didn't announce they intended to leave. The member schools didn't vote to dissolve the conference. All sides are still stuck in this war of attrition to reach a mutually agreeable settlement which is what most rational people said the likely outcome would be a year ago. Football is back so this is all getting punted to February of next year.
The amended 2016 Agreement gives ESPN the ability to extend the media agreement from 2027 to 2036 provided they notify within 2 years of the launch of the ACCN. The ACCN was launched August 22, 2019. This deadline would have come up August 22, 2021. The issue at hand is the accusation that in 2021 Jim Phillips extended this deadline until Feb 2025 unilaterally without a vote of 2/3s of member institutions which he cannot do. Can Jim Phillips provide proof that he was given permission from 2/3s of conference members to extend the deadline to 2025. If the law requires both parties to unanimously agree to changes within an adhesion clause then the orders from any Court are a nullity and void from the beginning. "Any departure from those recognized and established requirements of law, however close the apparent adherence to mere form in method of procedure, which has the effect to deprive one of a constitutional right, is as much an excess of jurisdiction as where there exists an inceptive lack of power. ‘The substance and not the shadow determines the validity of the exercise of the power.” QUOTING Postal Telegraph etc. Co. v. Adams, 155 U.S. [688], 689, 698 [15 S.Ct. 268, 360, 39 L.Ed. 311 Wuest v. Wuest, 53 Cal.App.2d 339, 346 (Cal. Ct. App. 1942). If Jim Phillips acted fraudulently without the discretion of the league members, then the entire contract is deemed as fraud. However, Clemson and FSU attorneys must raise the issue of fraud upon the discovery of the fraud. "Fraud vitiates everything, and a judgment equally with a contract; that is, a judgment obtained directly by fraud, and not merely a judgment founded on a fraudulent instrument; for, in general, The Court will not go again into the merits of an action for the purpose of detecting and annulling the fraud." United States v. Throckmorton, 98 U.S. 61, 66 (1878) To further the point, the entire G.O.R. contract is a nullity and holds no binding effect on persons or property. “If from the plaintiff's own stating or otherwise, the cause of action appears to arise ex turpi causa, or the transgression of a positive law of this country, there The Court says he has no right to be assisted.” Rountree v. Ingle, 94 S.C. 231, 77 S.E. 931, 45 L.R.A.(N.S.) 776, Ann. Cas. 1915A, 100 In addition, Jim Phillips on behalf of the ACC and along with ESPN has publicly stated that Florida State has legally agreed to allow the ACC to unilaterally give the right to ESPN alone to extend the contract to 2036. If ESPN and the ACC knew that this was not true, both parties publicly issued fraudulent statements which did major damage to FSU with regards to conference realignments.
Victory lap? I really appreciate you and your shows. However this is going nowhere. You're always making it sound like FSU has found a way out and the ACC is about to crumble but it's always crickets.. no disrespect but it's always a nothing burger
This has nothing to do with the lawsuit, but since you opened up with the FSU vs GT game in Dublin, I just wanted to throw out that the FSU Rugby Club will be playing Trinity College in Dublin at 5:00 PM on Aug 23rd, the evening before the football game.
Go Noles!
What about Phillips extending the deadline for ESPN to make a decision without getting approval from all the parties involved. Why is that not coming into question?
If TJ‘s observation about the regionality being redacted from this contract is correct, then wouldn’t the expansion of the agreement into California and Texas be a breach contract?
The new teams won’t sue, because no one else wanted them.
Which is why they gave up money for a few years to join.
It sounds like ESPN has ALL the power. The ACC is NOT going to negotiate to let FSU go. Why would they? FSU should become Independent, and refuse to play any ACC team, including Miami.
Canes don’t care do what’s best for the school you support..
Doug, how is the contract valid when it was materially changed to extend ESPNs option. Shouldn't that have been voted on?
My thoughts exactly! Also, the ACC bylaws require 2/3 approval of the Directors for the Commissioner to give ESPN the extension. I haven’t seen evidence of that approval
Thought in contract law the when their is ambiguity loke how or where a dispute will be held that courts sided woth the party that did not write the contract. Would this not apply here?
What I want to know is, if FSU leaves the ACC, and the ACC still owns FSU tv rights, doesn’t the ACC still owe the payments to FSU?
Unfortunately, if they leave, they forfeit the ACC payout. That’s why no one has announced their intention to leave the conference. The courts will have to clear it all up before movement is made.
A party can not receive a windfall from a breach of contract. For the acc to receive money from clemson and fsu it would require that espn lower the overall payout to the acc. If espn keeps the payment the same if schools leave then no damage is done no contract violation by the acc to espn. Which would mean the value of fsu media rights to the acc would be zero. Since the contract remained the same.
@@mattlippiatt1273 the courts will have to clear it all up. Anyone who says that FSU leaving the ACC doesn’t affect the conference is lying or just unaware. It would definitely hurt the value of the conference overall. How ESPN calculates the media payout or how the ACC distributes the money to its members hasn’t even been challenged by any of the plaintiffs. It’s apparent at this point that no one is breaking the GOR by leaving the ACC. This is all going to go through the courts and again, the courts will have to clear it all up for us to actually know the what, how, when and eventually the where do they go from here saga.
It's makes no sense to announce
Acc said it court they they would try to shop the rights and would split some profits with fsu
Insurance is a unilateral contract so are you saying the insured has to give notice?
Is the exit fee tired to the grant of rights contract? (Will that expire if the grant of right does)?
No, the exit fee is separate.
The exit fee is the only issue that actually has any precedent in this whole mess. Maryland was able to leave with a reduced exit fee. They ended up paying 60 percent of the original exit fee. It’s the GOR that has everyone at a standstill on expansion.
I agree. We likely won't pay the entire ~$140 exit fee.
@DoubleFriesNoSlaw From this report, Are we to infer that FSU will not announce by August 15th of this year their leaving the ACC?
I don’t think that’s a certainty but my confidence in it is fading.
Wowits funny to see fsu be humbled😂😂😂😂 all the dayes have come an went that fsu would be our an in the big10 by😂😂😂😂
Yall should read the partially unsealed amended complaint from clemson.
How do I find it
@Almighty5-ww1kl you can go to the pickens public index. In last name buisness type clemson date type select actions filed then put a date sometime in March then select the case 2024CP3900322 from there you can view everything that's been submitted so far in the case.
If espn extends the option why would they want to get into the lawsuits?
I didn't hear anything about the Phillips letter you mention.
It was included in the docs- and the extension was the central theme of my questioning.
GO NOLES #MIKEGOTUS 🍢🍢
I can’t imagine still being in the ACC even in 2026.
John Kavanaughs gravediggers pub best Guinness in Dublin
The ACC is toast. I don’t blame teams for wanting out. I mean, the conference is so weak that their undefeated champ missed the playoffs. Beat out by 2 one loss teams from superior conferences.
FSU is out. Acc may hold rights to home games until 2027 but we're out for less than 140 million if we're out before 25. Take a three year B12 contract, get AAU accredited and B1G it up in 28. Go Noles!!! >>>-------;->
No to Big12. The Big12 Commissioner was using FSU and Clemson to get media eyes on his conference.
Accreditation is not a requirement to join B1G but needs to be worked toward.
Acc payout is higher. It would make more sense to just stay in the acc until 2027 when espn is gonna have to do a new contract anyway
Independent is best route if B1G is not an option right away. Do not be scared of Independent schedule. FSU was Independent before joining the ACC.
B1G needs to be the long term goal for many reasons.
Fear the Spear!
... I really was curious about Clemson-Wake Forest game...
Said no one ever.😂😂😂
How did this start with FSU is leaving and we will know before the 2024 season to we are at the mercy of espn? Sounds like fsu is fucked
Really tired.Of you talking about the a c c and florida state conflict like just that does she play out bro albert
Contract and grant of rights is up in 2027. If renewed, so are the grant of rights.
Now i know why jim phillips has been mad an entire week bumpin his gums.
ACC LOST!
Didn't this channel promise a big revelation this week in the documents being disclosed and challenged ESPN to cover the story? What happened? July was a big dud and this story has become a complete dud. The FSU "insiders" and fans set crazy high expectations for immediate results for what will be a long legal process.
We got exactly what I was saying we'd get. Thanks for allowing me a victory lap. 🫡
@@DoubleFriesNoSlaw So much spin I'm getting dizzy. Nothing of significance happened this week or the past month. ESPN didn't announce they weren't renewing. FSU and Clemson didn't announce they intended to leave. The member schools didn't vote to dissolve the conference. All sides are still stuck in this war of attrition to reach a mutually agreeable settlement which is what most rational people said the likely outcome would be a year ago. Football is back so this is all getting punted to February of next year.
The amended 2016 Agreement gives ESPN the ability to extend the media agreement from 2027 to 2036 provided they notify within 2 years of the launch of the ACCN. The ACCN was launched August 22, 2019. This deadline would have come up August 22, 2021.
The issue at hand is the accusation that in 2021 Jim Phillips extended this deadline until Feb 2025 unilaterally without a vote of 2/3s of member institutions which he cannot do.
Can Jim Phillips provide proof that he was given permission from 2/3s of conference members to extend the deadline to 2025.
If the law requires both parties to unanimously agree to changes within an adhesion clause then the orders from any Court are a nullity and void from the beginning.
"Any departure from those recognized and established requirements of law, however
close the apparent adherence to mere form in method of procedure, which has the effect to
deprive one of a constitutional right, is as much an excess of jurisdiction as where there exists an
inceptive lack of power. ‘The substance and not the shadow determines the validity of the
exercise of the power.”
QUOTING Postal Telegraph etc. Co. v. Adams, 155 U.S. [688], 689, 698 [15 S.Ct. 268, 360, 39 L.Ed. 311
Wuest v. Wuest, 53 Cal.App.2d 339, 346 (Cal. Ct. App. 1942).
If Jim Phillips acted fraudulently without the discretion of the league members, then the entire contract is deemed as fraud. However, Clemson and FSU attorneys must raise the issue of fraud upon the discovery of the fraud.
"Fraud vitiates everything, and a judgment equally with a contract; that is, a judgment
obtained directly by fraud, and not merely a judgment founded on a fraudulent instrument; for, in
general, The Court will not go again into the merits of an action for the purpose of detecting and
annulling the fraud."
United States v. Throckmorton, 98 U.S. 61, 66 (1878)
To further the point, the entire G.O.R. contract is a nullity and holds no binding effect on persons or property.
“If from the plaintiff's own stating or otherwise, the cause of action appears to arise ex
turpi causa, or the transgression of a positive law of this country, there The Court says he has no
right to be assisted.”
Rountree v. Ingle, 94 S.C. 231, 77 S.E. 931, 45 L.R.A.(N.S.) 776, Ann. Cas. 1915A, 100
In addition, Jim Phillips on behalf of the ACC and along with ESPN has publicly stated that Florida State has legally agreed to allow the ACC to unilaterally give the right to ESPN alone to extend the contract to 2036. If ESPN and the ACC knew that this was not true, both parties publicly issued fraudulent statements which did major damage to FSU with regards to conference realignments.
@@heartbreak25 You should probably sit down and take a nap so you don't get sick from the "spinning" then
@@heartbreak25
FSU announced their withdrawal from the ACC in August 23
Hey TJ, please please invite that McKenzie fellow. You'd draw a ton of people.
We should hold a Rohan vs McKenzie debate on DFNS!
I'd like to hear you Q&A him without Doug....yet, cuz I think McKenzie would be intimidated by both of you at once
Victory lap? I really appreciate you and your shows. However this is going nowhere. You're always making it sound like FSU has found a way out and the ACC is about to crumble but it's always crickets.. no disrespect but it's always a nothing burger
Well, until they get out. 😆
@@DoubleFriesNoSlaw I hope so. I don't mean to be impatient it just has gone from excitement to irritation and frustration.
Oh and just a side note.. that's pretty cool you replied