Short Barreled Rifle Vs Pistol Brace
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- Today, we're exploring the differences between short barreled rifles (SBRs), large-format PDW-style pistols, and pistols with stabilizing braces. What are the legal differences and why? What are the advantages of owning one over another? And why don't you ever see me using a braced pistol in our videos?
Special thanks to Rhett at @Demonstrated Concepts LLC for letting us use some clips of his AR pistol technique: / @demonstratedconceptsl...
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My main takeaway from this is that if the ATF doesn't say you can't then you should never ask if you can.
100%
Easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission
What kind of answer did the weenies that asked expect to get from the weenies that answered?
What is you thought on the THORDSEN Cheek rests. They don’t call themselves a brace, just a cheek rest. I have had one years ago but sold the AR pistol years ago. just bought a new Upper and a separate lower and was thinking about using Thordsen
Why would you ever ask anyways??? You're not free if you ask for "permission" to do things (as long as they don't actually hurt others).
We're in a sad place when the legislature asks the ATF to clarify the law.
Clarify meaning create new laws.
Sad indeed. Congress has abdicated it responsibly, and potential political accountability to voters, to The Administrative state.
Which is a fundamental crisis in how our government currently functions.
Regards,
Marky
@@JBJHonez Exactly. Also, my question is when did the ATF get the ability to make law? The Constitution says only congress can make law. Our politicians have sold out the American people
@@ducktapepilot You see this quite a bit in government. Congress writes a bill that will say something that gives bureaucrats the authority to make techicnal decisions and changes as needed.
Regards,
Marky
@@John1911 In other words they illegally delegated their law making power to a government agency run by un-elected bureaucrats.
I'm a lawyer who has spent quite a bit of time in the past few months learning about firearms. Like many lawyer, I like to keep an eye on the cases coming out of SCOTUS, and with two big cases coming up this year, I figured it was time that I start learning about stuff like this: bump stocks, SBRs, pistol braces, etc.
Your video has been one of the most helpful. Thank you!
This guy is a teacher, meaning he ca actually teach. His thoughts are well organized and easy to understand. If you watch you will actually learn something.
Thanks
Chris Baker is not only an expert on the subject but is a gifted teacher who knows how to hold the attention of the viewer.
It's too easy to become a felon without even knowing so.
The people making up all this crap "law" should be in prison.
Justin
That’s the idea.
“Felon”
Almost everyone has committed a felony at some point. Basically the department of justice is broken along with the law makers.
It's nearly impossible not to commit some kind of felony these days.
It's just a matter of if you get caught and selective enforcement.
The one rule of braced pistols is to never ask the ATF Never Never Never
The one rule of -braced pistols- owning firearms is to never ask the ATF anything!
Everyone online has ignored that.
Looks like we're going to have to write a letter to the ATF asking them if it's okay to write them a letter.
those senators asking them to tell us "once and for all" needed to have read this comment!
:)
Jus stay away from anything like that
The bottom line: The NFA is ridiculous, the 2A SHOULD supercede everything.
agreed
Nope 2020...people's feelings RULE!
it does. sue the nfa into oblivion...
*does
A little bit of lost freedom (NFA laws to prevent everyone from becoming Bonnie/Clyde or Al Capone) to gain a little bit of security...oh wait, the NFA laws did not stop criminals from committing crimes, did they?
Finally! An actual explanation on the diff in sbr and pistol. I have searched the internet and no one, no one explains it thru. All I can say is Thank you. Thank you.
One mention about SBR rules: all the rules in the NFA were written because they were also going to ban pistols. The SBR rules were to catch people sawing off their rifles to make new, post-ban pistols....
Encourage your lawmakers to have the SBR rules removed from the NFA because they only exist to ban something that's not illegal: pistols.
Or it just might light a fire under their asses to go on a full frontal assault to ban pistols.
Within ten years all guns will be illegal, and we will be forced to turn them in at gun point, so just be ready because Americans have given up and will surrender them willingly.
@@gifthorse3675 not this guy, MOLON LABE!
NFA is most egregious, yet just one of many 2A infringements. NFA needs to be repealed in its' entirety, not edited. IMO
AICW let’s get it over with then, we can either lite the fire now and maybe put up a fight and loose a painfully slow battle.
Defund the ATF. Repeal the NFA.
Shall not be infringed 😅
He said no opinions 😝
Obama expanded firearms ownership rights more than trump and Reagan who restricted firearms ownership.
Look it up.
But yeah, the atf are the totally the problem 🙄
@@toonstierney1170 news flash: you already are
@@GIJOE573YUUUUP
Big THANK YOU for recommending Demonstrated Concepts LLC channel. Hyper original, and max value content over there. LOVE IT
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government bureau
Copy that
No not a convenience store that's a lil bit off the chain their can be crazies buying em
I'm making the T-Shirt now.
@@FeralRabbit Id buy it.
We don’t need the ATF. We never use to have it. People need to get the constitution out and read it and study past leaders in 1800s to early 1900s.
In summary; repeal the NFA.
Seriously, I want a drum Thompson
and FOPA while we're at it.
Exactly!
And abolish the atf
That almost happened with the suppressor case out of the Midwest. Unfortunately, AG Bill Barr told the SCOTUS not to hear the case because it would have undone the NFA.
"Crime Against Decency" LOLOL
So are some "taboo" swear words, apparently.
I think some people are a 'crime against decency'.
@@stewall101 I don't think you saw the fake ATF print out @4:15
The best explanation I’ve heard to date . I’ve been listening to several people on this subject and they all left me more concerned than relieved. After watching you go through the issues and possible remedies I feel worst case scenario will cost me a few bucks or get practicing with that 2 point sling technique. Thanks again!
Best explanation. Very prescient, and the only video I've seen that correctly laid out the existing uncertainty (at the time), instead of ignoring the ambiguity in favor of assumptions that now have proved incorrect. This video exemplifies why this channel is my most trusted. Please keep them coming.
Defund the ATF. Only Congress is mandated to make laws, not some unelected bureaucracy govt agency.
Do something about it. Nobody wants to read your opinion.
“Only Congress is mandated to make laws.” False statement.
Let’s push that and wait till we’re dead to see the results of our work
>Implying Congress isn’t exactly that
And even they can't create a law that goes against the constitution ie the 2nd amendment.
When I got my PDW, I opted for the pistol version without a brace due to the ATF's general ambiguity, subjective inconsistencies and probability of arbitrary changes to their pronouncements over time. Nor did I choose the SBR version because of the hassle.
I use a single point sling, with a technique where I brace both of my elbows against my torso. When holding the PDW on target and looking down at my forearms they form a near-perfect isosceles triangle. When I look directly ahead, the pdw is centered and I'm looking directly through my red dot sight. When I fire, there is very little movement and I'm quickly back on target for the next shot.
I spent time practicing and now it's second nature. Works great for me.
@@mathewnottingham1006 yes! great to hear.
I've also worked out a left and right side stance based on the technique I described. It presents a smaller target to opponents.
Without a brace or a stock, the PCC pistol is much smaller, maneuverable and versatile.
Currently working on walking and running while keeping aim somewhat "on target" which is challenging, not impossible. Much more movement without a brace or stock.
Cheers!
The best 21 minutes I've spent watching a video on you tube. Thanks for the informative video brother.
Im new to the AR-15 comunity, I got American tactical AR-15 pistol and have been searching so many info on the web and youtube for months. Lucky Gunner just opened my eyes 21 minutes and 30 seconds! Thank you much! A perfect video to explain it so well!
You did a great job explaining the differences and pointing out the ambiguities between the two. Can't ask for much more than that
Anyone who understands the NFA knows it does not make any practical sense and serves no other purpose than generating revenue for the ATF.
@@ReptilianLepton Wow that fact is nauseating.
It was supposed to make certain items completely out of reach to most average people financially. However, the initial $200 never came with an inflation adjustment mechanism (thank God) $200 in 1934 money was a small fortune. Today, thanks to the Federal Reserve, $200 ain't s#it. If we keep going the way we're going, anything costing $200 will be a joke. You'll give them $200 and tell them "Don't spend it all in one place, sucker!"
And gives them your identity so if they were to become tyranical theu know who to go to first.
@@reedr1659 $200 is still alot bud. Thats the price of a whole other gun.
I have to admit... your content is really, really good. Well thought out. Keep up the great work.
You can also pin and weld a suppressor on the barrel extending the overall barrel length to 16 inches. No tax stamp needed and can add all the good stuff.
Tax stamp still needed for the suppressor...
"By law, federal agencies such as ATF must consult the public when creating, modifying, or deleting rules in the Code of Federal Regulations."
Straight from their website.
But they're too busy dosing out large portions of infringement to follow their own rules.
I'm like 80% sure that line is why this video was made.
@@No-mq5lw Woah, be careful there, friend. Don't let the ATF hear you say "80%"
Jaren Kelley
That’s funny!
But by the constitution only congress can create laws, they can not delegate their lawmaking powers to federal agencies but they do anyway.
@@phillhuddleston9445 Ever hear about Executive orders?
"A pistol with a brace is not necessarily going to save you a whole lot of money over just paying for a $200 tax stamp"
Sure, but then at least my money is going into the industry instead of into a bureaucratic void
My objection has always been giving the ATF fingerprints. The 200$ isn't the end of the world.
It doesn't just go into a void, it funds the enemy of your freedom.
Not to mention it's much faster buying an AR pistol with a brace, than it is to wait for your SBR to be approved. There's also travel restrictions for SBRs going across state lines which don't apply to AR pistols.
@erozpl01 Oh my friend, how much you have yet to learn about government! That just means they get a bigger budget out of your income taxes ON TOP of the stamp.
Register, fingerprint, can't loan it out, can't cross state lines without ATF permission, can't transfer without ATF permission...
To hell with the tax stamp route.
Great video, learned a lot. Made my purchase of a pistol brace seem a whole lit smarter. Ill take my chances of the ATF banning them over being put in a database as an SBR owner.
Personally I'm not a fan of pistol braces. Why take an easily concealed handgun and add a 'brace' which is essentially a poor stock making it more difficult to conceal. One may as well carry an SBR simply due the fact a rifle round is superior to a pistol cartridge. Personally I carry a G19 since it will allow me to fight my way to the rifle I shouldn't have dropped. ;)
"This could all change a couple months from now."
BOY DO I HAVE A STORY FOR YOU CHRIS!!
Honey. Badger.
I knew that there were particular regulations and differences about standard rifles, SBRs and pistols there in US, but I never explored them enough: this video has clarified to me many things. What can I say, I thought you didn't have such stupid regulations like we do here in Italy (which for sure are worst!!). At least not at federal level, but at State or local level only.
Overall, our laws are not as restrictive as most places, but the laws we do have don't make any more sense than they do in other countries.
Dont get me started on supressors
I think there’s something like 13,000 actual gun laws on the books in the US.
Here’s just a few “common sense” gun laws we have, thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/359363-What-if-there-were-serious-gun-controls%3F
I thought your laws were relatively decent for a European country
@@borkwoof696 yes, for sure they are better than in other countries: we can own almost any type of firearm. But there are limitations on the maximum number of certain types, on the number of cartridges, it's practically impossible to get a carry permit for self-defense (typically the permits that are issued are for sporting or hunting purpose). Not too bad considering the fact that having a firearm here is a privilege and not a right, but I'd prefere less restrictions: most of them does not make sense at all!
When I seen this video pop up on my feed I was like yesssss ... I love your content.... just wish we could get more of it but I understand.... it’s a lot of hard work ....thanks for what you do...
I love your explanations. The detail you provide is so helpful. Your channel is a great resource for the shooting community.
As always, an informative video that I find particularly relevant as I just purchased an AR pistol. I have seen other content providers who I respect also kind of come to a different conclusion about shouldering a pistol brace. I appreciate both points of view. Keep up the great work on the videos Thanks.
I can understand how the effort you were put in to make this educational video! Thank you so much for this informational episode 🖤💙🖤 👍
Excellent video. Thank you for making this and giving a clear and concise explanation to a somewhat ambiguous topic.
This is the most informative video on the subject I've ever seen. Thank you, sir.
This is extremely helpful. I had a lot of trouble finding clear information on the legal definitions and differences between sbr and pistol while planning to build an ar9mm pcc with a 16" barrel for home defense. Now I'm thinking an 8.5" pistol would be more maneuverable, and easier to sweep the house without feeling like I'm on patrol in Nam or something.
The ATF don't make it easy to understand. Kinda like the IRS or your damn mobile phone co.
Yep, it's all a catch-22. Vague rules in hopes that you fuck up and have to pay them extra money.
Yep... by design. if not originally, certainly the current “rules” perpetuate because of that, in a “feature not a bug” sort of way.
its funny that those 2 are integrated huh...
Best explanation I've seen so far on this subject.
One of the more logic and data driven treatises on the topic. Nicely done.
Great information and the most detailed explanation I have found to date. Look forward to exploring your youtube channel for other informative videos.
Been following this channel for years and it's always great content. I may now reconsider shouldering in my videos until there's some consistency with the ATF. Thanks for the info.
Thanks for putting the history in to this as well as an overview of the whole messy alphabet soup of ATF vs braces and sbrs. I subscribe to a lot of gun channels and this is probably the best overview yet.
Thanks for an excellent overview. I am just beginning the thought process about purchasing an AR9 PDW, and your video gave me a lot to consider.
Great information. Thanks for posting this one. I built my pistol in 300 AAC, 10.5. Love it. I still can't talk myself into building one in 9mm or .45 yet. The cost of an AR style pistol in 9mm or .45 over an M&P with a 17 round capacity hasn't made me go that route yet.
Immediately thumbs upped the video before it started! You know if Chris does something its gonna be good.
Owning one as a pistol allows me to conceal carry it in a backpack, can't do that with a rifle. Braces have become very comfortable and have the same features as stocks so assuming there isn't a random ATF ban I see no reason to SBR it
Man, I really appreciate your choice to not bring your politics into the video and discourage grandstanding in the comments. Just well done, thank you.
I’m really new to firearms and I wish I had come across your video before I made some of my purchases.
Your explanations are fantastic.
Very good information on the differences between a SBR & PDW style pistol. It looks like the
distinction or enforcement can depend on which way the wind is blowing. Thank you for this
excellent review.
The difference is simple... If your barrel's overall length is less than 16" there are 2 options you have (for now, at least) if you wish to remain on the right side of the law., An "AR pistol" uses a stabilizing brace and cannot have a vfg attached to the rail, while an SBR can be configured any way you'd like. The difference is an additional $200 tax and an additional background check and waiting period if you go the SBR route.
I've yet to hear the sound of velcro separating on my "pistol" brace.
Hahaha truth
Hahahaha 😂
🤣
lol
Same
Great info, Thx much for keeping on track
WOW! Extremely informative. Quite a bunch of information packed into a pretty short video. Thank you!
Who else is here, October 9, 2020, after the ATF reclassified the Honey Badger as an SBR?
I heard there's a small clause in the ATF guidelines that states "you can't put pistol braces on your firearm if your company starts and ends with the letter Q"
Was hoping that this had information on that topic.
@@vidard9863 -- yeah, update?
@@mojoman2001 my understanding is that the ATF backed down, but didn't give any clear resolution. My suspicion is that they are waiting for a more favorable administration, and might be willing to wait for things to calm down a bit. On the other hand dementia Joe might want to come out swinging and assume that no one will care if he goes after braces.
@@vidard9863 like the Trump administration was any less favorable? "tHe eIgHT yEaR aSSaULt oN tHe sEcOND aMeNDmENt iS ovEr"
I really appreciate your articulate perspective without all the hyperbole and machismo.
Great video, I learned a good deal about the SBR and the Pistol Brace. Thanks, Chris, job well done as are your other videos.
My how so much has changed in 6 months. Watched this video in July and now at the end of December.
Thought the same thing!
Lol. They're gonna "interpret" the outlaw of slings next.
Could you do a video about the usage of a m32 rotary grenade launcher for home defense
Asking for a friend.
Load with buckshot shells.
You can get a 37mm flare launcher and legally shoot magnesium signal flares, smoke shells, and teargas rounds without the hassle of a destructive device registration.
@@kerbalairforce8802 what about a can launcher attached to your ar 15?
@@clayfink5938 go watch ordnance lab's videos on the can cannon. He shoots live grenades out of his
You nailed it about all those so called 'youtube gunners' shouldering their braces and firing away with their "pistols". Oh, but man, they're cool though. These guys actively demonstrating this are perfect examples of the ATF's definition of "Manifest Intent". The ATF isn't blind or dumb. We are in this case.
Thanks for introducing concepts and techniques I had not considered. It will help me make a more informed decision.
I bought an “Other”, with my stimulus check. [Laughs in non-NFA]
Nice! My trump check got me an M4 and an Ar Pistol. But if someone sees me shoulder a pistol with a brace, its already too late for them to try and take it away lol.
I’m behind enemy lines with an “other” as well.
Hahaha I love the other. Where there is a will there is a way
Summary: if you decide to shoulder your pistol brace, you might be totally fine, or you might have your house stormed and all the women and children inside killed by the ATF.. non specific example of course.
Don’t forget, they’ll shoot your dog. And the neighbors dog too
I can think of a similar example 😕
😂😂
Isnt "freedom" fun?
Thankyou - extremely good information, and exactly what I needed to know to keep me out of trouble.
Excellent please continue these types of videos!!
The words "shall not be infringed" come to my mind for some reason.
It's been rumored that the ATF doesn't like Freedom, the Constitution, and Firearms... LOL
If you think theyre bad then dont look at California.
They clearly dont like alcohol tobacco or firearms in the hands of civilians
All about the revenue
Spoke to a gun store owner in Florida. He said the ATF guys were good guys. Look to their commie overlords. They’re the culprits.
@@ER-me1ii just following orders doesn't cut it, I think the Nuremberg trials made that clear quite some time ago.
Thanks for all that info, really appreciated it!
Excellent as always my friend. Thank you for the great video.
I love how criminals follow all these rules and laws.
So, ATF, what is the difference in being shot by someone with a 9mm 'pistol, (pistol as per this video) or a 9mm sbr?
Great video.
One costs $200
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz *One made the government $200 more.
@@OutsideTheTargetDemographic both are true :)
One will kill you n the other makes you dead ... n like the other guy said ... 200 bucks
The cops steal both from you but the SBR will more likely land you in prison for a long time
New gun owner here. I’m really glad I subscribed. Always great information. I really appreciate it.
Nice video. Thanks for doing all this work, dude! Helps make all the murkiness at least a little less murky.
Members of Congress asked an agency in the Executive Branch for clarification of a law? There's so many things wrong with this.
I have an SBR'ed MPX, and while it's a bit more of a hassle to get it from pistol to SBR, my thinking was that the whole package (it has a silencer also) is so pricey, that I really didn't want to get it really close to greatness, and then skimp out at the end.
Awesome report. Thanks Chris.
Gave me a bit more perspective. I have spoken with coworkers in the military, that are also shooters, to gauge buying a SBR vs AR pistol. Thanks for the video.
Now let's talk about the Mossberg Shockwave not being a "shotgun"😂😃😂🤣
Thanks for doing this. You come across as way more professional than most guntubers
Agreed! To much machismo and “screw the gubmint” on a lot of other channels.
Thank you for this video brother, definitely clears up my questions
ATF Logic: if you sneeze the wrong way with your gun in your hand, it’s a felony.
wait, i thought it was illegal to tax a right...
they tax your right to earn a living. they tax you when you buy food. They tax your home. They tax your phone service, your internet, etc.
is there a right that they DON'T tax?
@@kevinalexander8201 Breathing. But they may get there.
@@TheHamgamer I think I've heard of a rain water tax in some places also?
@@kevinalexander8201 While all taxation is theft, I must have missed those rights when they were codified in the Bill of Rights and subsequent amendments
@@garrett8794 ok..... since you want to be like that....Phone, internet is 1st amendment (freedom of speech).
you're welcome.
Just reminds me of all the idiots filming themselves chopping rifles down and saying 'one less' as a political statement not realizing they were committing a felony.
Shall not be infringed
It’s not a felony. It’s an illegal law. If you want to know it all know the truth.
Thanks for this video. Great info.
Thanks for the great information! Just subscribed. ✌
So, what you are inferring is, we need to get rid of the NFA?
11:00 "hopefully we'll hear a ruling in the near future and hopefully it will be favorable to gun owners" ya, tickling the dragon always works out well. 🤣
These videos are excellent... quite educational and gives you all the basic info to make an informed decision...
Fantastic and thorough information. Thank you!
I'm an avid gun hobbiest, and attorney, the ATF recently ruled, by letter, on what they consider a "vertical foregrip" to be. They specifically say that the angle for a vertical foregrip is 90 degrees ONLY, and they go on to say that angled foregrips are ALLOWED and will NOT change the designation from pistol to rifle.
@thelonghornguy Thanks for letting us know. I'm currently shopping for a AR pistol brace, and a foregrip so that helps me out. I hate the fact that trying to follow the laws regarding firearms can be so confusing to regular citizens like myself that want to do the right thing
Thx
Question, should I pull the trigger on a PCC w/ brace soon, or can I wait to save a little more and get it next year?
I'm waiting with the expectation it will still be available next year.
89 degree foregrips, here we come
"Ouchenboomer?" lol...
Great video. On point man
As always very helpful!!!!
Fun fact for all Americans who are afraid of some paperwork and 200$ to get a braced pistol:
Here in Germany you have to join a shooting club for at least one year, get professional training at least every month, get a level 2 gunsafe, get a psychological healthchack and write a exam about firearm technology and safety just to get a WBK (gun owning card) witch allow you to own a gun for sports purpose and transport it to the shooting range, even a single shot .22 require this process witch will probably cost you 3000$.
Oh, and even in case of a terroristic attack, you are not allowed to use it for self-defense because the German government has the privilege on lethal force witch was by the way given to them buy the Americans after ww2.
Ja, wir wissen wie drakonisch eure Waffengesetze sind. Sie sollten denjenigen hierzulande, die sich lieber allmähliche Aushöhlungen ihrer Rechte („Tod durch tausend Schnitte″) gefallen lassen, statt lautstark darum zu kämpfen, als Warnung dienen. Nicht vergessen: unser zweiter Verfassungszusatz gewährt uns Amerikanern keine Rechte; er kodifiziert sie einfach, denn jeder Mensch bekommt sie von unserem Schöpfer. Die Deutschen besitzen auch diese Rechte . Sie werden einfach nicht anerkannt. Viele Grüße aus den USA!
The problem is that america is free, while germany is not.
@@champy1210
Das Problem ist jedoch das Rechte, welche nicht direkt erlebbar sind, steht's von verschiedensten Personen und Organisationen abgestritten werden. Die Gravitation wird niemand leugnen, da jeder einen Apfel beim fallen zu sehen kann, bei menschlichen Freiheitsrechten ist das schon anders. Da der Mensch der schönen neuen Welt jedoch Beweise fordert, ohne weder etwas von Geschichte noch Philosophie zu verstehen, kann er nicht erkennen was wir schon lange wissen.
PS wie kommt es dass sie mir mit perfektem Deutsch antworten?
I can't tell if this is hyperbole or not.
reminds me of when that Paris terror attack happened where several armed terrorists shot and killed around 130 some people. I bet you if France was as armed as the U.S. a decent amount of those people people could've had some kind of chance of survival with their conceal carry weapons.
Came here looking to educate myself, left paranoid and unsure if I should buy either 😂
Let me put it to you this way: I've been threatened with 10 years for getting hit by a cop. You read that right - they hit me, and said I spit on them, and that got me hit with assault on a public servant. So, with that kind of experience behind me, being threatened with 10 years for standing up for my rights doesn't seem so scary anymore.
Wonderful presentation. Always a pleasure to watch
Very Informative video, Thank you.
My political manifesto: free beer, brats, guns, and unicorns for everyone!
Can I have a minigun mounted on my unicorn?
@@gifthorse3675 as long as both are FREE
We of the free beer, brats and guns anti-unicorn league take offense at your manifesto!
Everyone gets a pony and free dental.
Alright so did I hear we are starting our own autonomous zone?
If I use a belt loop to bump fire a rifle does that make my belt loop illegal :-?
Not the belt loop, but the action.
This answered a lot of my questions. Great video.
Great brake down, and very full of information to validate existing knowledge of the details. Nice tip on sling strategy.