@@MoonbowOpus The literal text. "Poise" is written in yellow cause it's a positive effect, "Fragile" is written in red cause it's negative. Some like "Aggro" and "K Corp Ampules" are in brown, I guess that stands for neutral
4:40 I actually like the animation for Yi Sang's skill 2. Though it's hard to see basically every time another coin is rolled another hole appears on the enemy basically like a "you're already dead" kinda thing. It's kinda hard to see though between the paint and enemy models.
The coins awkwardly appearing is disappointing because seeing those coins appear every time you reuse them is so satisfying. But enemies bursting in a stream of colors is cool to look at.
To be honest, I am perfectly ok with the Ring IDs being busted for one reason, they are standard fare IDs. Not Seasonal or Walpergis locked. Anyone can shard them, so everyone has a fair shot at getting these powerful IDs.
Wtf I agree with them being op being fine, but in a gacha game the limited shit should be the op shit as shown consistently in walpurgis and other gacha games like genshin to encourage fomo for people to pull. Yes this is a gacha tactic
@@bruh_8129 I mean, poor burn teams are missing not just magic bullet outis to multiply their damage output but now dawn office sinclair to beat the hell out of people thanks to walpurgisnacht
@@KuroTrashedpeople scared of the powercreep in the future content, which will be balance on these op units so the more “normal” unit stand 0 chance and also have 0 use in that future. Which was happened in a lot of games before not just schizo shits
hello it is me WingBeat Fan I haven't done the exact calculations yet, but the initial SP burst of up to +18 SP from Yi Sang's support passive is a massive boost to its consistency. I wrote up something for wingbeat already, taking into account Butler Faust support passive as well. (taken from some other comment i made) The two support passives are obviously Butler Faust and Ring Yi Sang *Uptie 3 Butler Faust, very simple, ally with least SP heals 2 sp when hitting a target with 5+ sinking. Use Molar Ish for this since if the target has tremor, she's completely sinking neutral. Max 4 times, so 8 total SP regen. Ring Yi Sang's support passive's wording is weird. "1 Ally with the least SP heals 2 SP On Hit for every type of negative effect on the target. (max 6)" *This doesn't mean max 6 negative effects, it means max 6 SP.* "If the target has Bleed, heal 3 additional SP" For a total of 9 SP. And then max 2 times per turn. So for the first two coins, ish regains, (9+2), (9+2), SP, meaning she'll gain a total of 20-21 SP, due to wingbeat's second coin losing 1-2 SP on heads hit. On the third coin, Ish is at *40 SP minimum*. This is a HUGE increase to the likelihood of hitting heads compared to the 18-19 SP she'd be at without these support passives. Her SP looks something like this, starting at 20: 31 > 40 > 40 > 40 > 38 > 36 > 34 SP. Assuming the 1-2 sanity loss rolls max each time. Of course, that's very unlikely, and you can notice in the video that Ish actually originally started with 36 SP and ended at 38, meaning she GAINED SP from using Wingbeat in this situation. (again, reusing my comment from another video) Oh and in terms of other IDs and EGO, not sure it's even worth mentioning, but obviously Rodya for Rime Shank and Sanguine Desire can be very helpful, to maintain Sinking and Bleed for both support passives. Just be careful about her sanity, since if it's lower than Ish's, Ish won't get the SP healing. Luckily, Sanguine Desire's "Bleed Count doesn't decrease" effect is [Combat Start] so as long as Rodya's slower than Ish, you'll be fine. And of course, in general, anyone who can apply long-lasting debuffs like tremor, or unique debuffs like Butler's Mark, Nails, Echoes of the Manor, Declared Duel, Vengeance Mark, etc are all helpful to increase the reliability of Yi Sang's support passive. (Although I will admit, jury's still out on whether some of those actually count towards it, I haven't bothered to check). EDIT: This tech is probably like completely useless, the only time wingbeat max roll will matter is low turn railway, in which case just reset forever. But this is what Limbus is for. Glory to coin flips.
I found that running a Bleed/poise team yields the best results for the ring Ids, with the main team being >Both Ring Ids >N Faust >Pequod Ish and Heath >Pirate Gregor This comp allows the team to easily build up to all of the necessary bleed conditionals they have, which in turn allows the poise Ids to consistently build up their poise. The only downside is that you don't get any debuffs other than bleed outside of N Faust's kit, which means you have to lean more on being lucky to get the Ring's coin reuses.
How did I completely forget about Pirate Gregor when I complained to a friend about how he had bleed conditionals but S3 IDs had mediocre bleed application. Well I know what I'm doing next.
bleed, nails, and literally anything else. Welcome to the new N Corp. edit: I can't believe you forgot the fourth reason: she's a rodion id, and thus gets access to Rime Shank to slap Sinking onto the enemy with a decent to high count.
That would contradict with him recommending Effervescent Corrosion. Since that not only slaps on Tremor, which is a longer lasting debuff, but also Bind. Technically Rim Shank can also debuff even more thanks to the passive but there's another turn delay cause the Attack Power Down and Bind only goes into effect at best two turns after the initial Rime Shank use, and only if Rodion can manage to hit them while they still have the Sinking on them
I think that was the joke. You keep thinking he’s gonna mention one of the best EGO in the game, and then he drops Effervescent Corrosion after so much buildup.
That’s kinda the thing though, you actually DO want effervescent more, the debuff it applies lasts 7 turns and no less, while sinking could very well be gone that turn.
[18:08] This, right here, is why I love the Ring IDs from a design perspective. Not only are they strong in general, but they are fantastic additions for NEW AND F2P PLAYERS, who often don't have the IDs/E.G.O to build teams around just one status effect. The Ring IDs are direct support for "hybrid" teams, which a lot of new/F2P players are forced to run for a while.
I do think tho that nerfs can and should happen if something is whack balance-wise. Otherwise the power level will keep increasing and increasing with every such accident and we'll reach a point a year from now where old IDs feel like ass
@@pitagor2 hopefully PM gets their shit together and starts properly testing IDs before release which they clearly aren’t doing going off how the last two ID releases went. Ring-Sang being broken isn’t going to have any major impact on the game outside of giving players an incredibly powerful option for a Yi-sang id, but if PM lets this become a habit then the game could seriously start to suffer from insane power creep.
@@pitagor2 Agreed. At the very least they should have nerfed how stupidly easy it was to proc the coin reuse. Make the base chance 30% and make the additional chance 15%. Now you need 5 negative status effects to make reuse guaranteed, doesn't really change much but still makes you have to think more about team building.
@@freshlymemed5680 Feels like they should've added a condition where the reuses do not contribute to the coin value. That way you would still deal 18+18+18=54, which is a much more reasonable amount even if still high
@@pitagor2 Until, maybe, Uptie V. Just like how U4 fixed BL and 7assoc Yi Sang and other Sinner's IDs, U5 and future Upties should fix the ID scalings, unless we completely stop at U4 or 5. However at that point, I feel like another door will open in the Limbus that gives us access to Egoshards while also adding more bonuses so we get more of it later on if they decide to go above U5.
I think the main worry with releasing IDs of this strength is how you release future ones that compete. We already have seen R Cliff and N Clair force Heath and Sinclair to get additional top tier IDs to compete with their generic utility, and while I can't say much about the Ring general utility outside of MD, there's also the issue of status competition. How can you design another Bleed Yi Sang or Outis ID when these are so essential and powerful? We've seen somewhat similarly to an extent with Spicebush vs Dieci Yi Sang, with Dieci attempting to copy Dieci Rodya's tanking abilities in a failed attempt to compete with Spicebush's integral role in Sinking, and to a lesser extent you could say Butler Ishmael tries being Poise and Sinking, statuses Ishmael already has incredibly good IDs in, ending with her having no real purpose outside of Slash Fragility. This is mostly theoretical atm, and we have seen N Clair be shoved almost entirely out of Burn because of Dawn Clair, so PM has dealt with this before, I just think I can understand why they really wanted to nerf these IDs.
Simple. Just accept the fact they don’t need to compete and instead release IDs that fulfill distinctly different purposes. Even with ringsang existing, spicebrush, W corp, and Blade Lineage Yi-Sang all still have a place in the game and will continue to be used because they effectively fulfill distinct synergy based roles that Ring sang can’t. As for “how do we make a new bleed yi-sang that compares?” We probably.. don’t. Just like how boatworks Ishmael is probably always going to be the best sinking Ishmael ID and Magic Bullet Outis is always going to be the best burn Outis ID, Ringsang will probably always be the best bleed Yi-Sang. Which isn’t really the end of the world.
I'm really happy about these two IDs because they just revolutionize team building. I like the idea of just picking the IDs I love and make them work because Ring IDs just want debuffs. This video is really valuable for me, the way you slice up their kits helps me understand these IDs much better than reading it in the game, with the limited screen on a phone.
I too believe that Yi Sang’s s2 is unnecessarily strong, but nerfing it now is a massive tall order to ask due to the nature of gacha games. It would take getting collective agreement in the community to get the nerf through which is nigh impossible because of desires and demographics being wildly different. If there were still time to conduct the nerf, one interesting nerf would be to have the reuse condition reduce coin power by 2 or 3 but increase in count application, but that is merely an idle thought.
I think these IDs are awesome for the health of the game in the long run because they make so many older IDs more relevant. The only scenario where I think PM would ever go too far while making strong/broken IDs is if it made 0 sense in story context and came out of nowhere, while being so jaw-droppingly broken that you might as well have given us a constant lunar memory buff. The biggest downside of this is: If this is how strong the mere Ring students are, then how broken are the actual docents and maestros going to be? If they're weaker or undertuned, then many will of course be disappointed. But if we ever get higher-ranked syndicate members of the fingers, they'd have to be crazy broken or unique to even be accurate in terms of power-scaling to compete with these two... or it might just be that these two will be the exception.
Also, notice the Ring Researcher (which some considered to be students) were quite the hassle pre-nerf too and still are quite strong enemies too, so I would see that this is in fact quite accurate, even the middle ids and the middle Little Siblings we fought did hit quite hard while of course not relying on resonance due to be enemy fights, I still see that Fingers members even if the lower ranks are pretty powerful all things considered.
I don't think we'll ever see ID's for docents or maestros. We don't get ID's for figures that are too strong, usually. We never got a Ricardo ID, for example. In Leviathan, Vergilius fights a docent. And although he beats the docent, the fact that it takes him more than 5 seconds to do so is a clear sign that docents are far above the power level of ID's
@meeszijlstra5426 ricardo only showed up for a moment then dipped, but we know he's coming back some day and will likely get his ID then. They've teased the idea of color fixer ids, so even a maestro is on the table, it's just a matter of when.
I like it better if PMoon can handle the difficulty curves good enough, balancing the ids with current level enemies, then we can see the sinners progress with their ids in strength. Broken ids? not a problem, the enemy is also broken at late games and makes it fair at that point. It only makes sense for a color to fight a color, not a gangleader of some backstreets gang. Since we're gonna face the higher ups of N corp eventually, I think we can keep our hopes up that stronger ids will come as the story progress. Though this could break early game if someone gets really lucky with their first 20 pulls……
Kurokumo Gregor provides even more than you'd expect for the bleed team when accounting for the Ring ID's mechanics. On top of having high clashing power against bleeding targets, he provides reliable Sloth gen on S1, offense level down and atk power down on S2, and offense level down and plus coin drop on S3. These debuffs are all very useful, and he only needs 7+ bleed potency to fulfill most requirements on his skills, except for S3, which requires 10+ bleed potency for the plus coin drop. The Sloth gen also helps in fueling Yi Sang's Sunshower and Crow's Eye View, as well as Wishing Cairn. The Sloth gen can also help fuel a number of other EGOs like Holiday Outis, Effervescent Rodya, and Legerdemain, if opting to run Kurokumo Ryoshu on the bleed team for Gluttony gen and high bleed count application + debuffs.
@@freshlymemed5680 Ah, my mistake. I haven't gotten Kurokumo Gregor to UT4 as of yet. Been working hard on my Poise team, which is mostly finished. Now to do my Bleed team.
As an entertaining team building point, I used these guys as an excuse to actually use n-don. It was both pointillists, grippy Faust, n-don, hook lu, and n-cliff. Mostly an excuse to take the n-don out for a walk since I love her but the tremor bleed overlap before was a bit lacking.
I've been using Don recently in an Ncorp setup and honestly the mere fact that she has decent rolls on her s1 and s2 makes her valuable there. Really wish Ncliff didn't need 3 Ncorp buddies to activate his passive though.
Good thing about an ID that strong is that, like with Nclair, they're the prelude to a new Uptie. Which means PM can apply what they learned with newer IDs and make older ones even more fun to play with than before.
I think powercreep isn't so much of an issue in regards to damage and status. I'd love an ID that comes out that has a single coin skill basically a clone of Rime Shank, or even better, one that has a clone of bird's eye view to help all of the ID's that rely on rolling higher speed. The biggest issue though is powercreep in regards to rolls. I understand that more consistent clash wins can make or break an ID, but if rolls keep trending higher and higher, then enemies will also roll higher, and higher. Creating a sort of feedback loop where by the end, an ID that rolls a 9 on s1 is going to pale in comparison to one that released rolling a 16, or even higher. I think this is probably the aspect of the game that project moon should be keeping the closest eye on, since unlike ruina, these identities are (allegedly) supposed to be usable regardless of where in the story you are at.
Way I see it. I feel that future upties are gonna start having more significant impact on the lesser performing IDs in order to properly bring them in line. UT4 felt a lot like an experiment into how they can handle future upties with how safe it was for most IDs. And at a certain point, PM will probably have to introduce a new item to handle further upties, that way thread doesn't get bottlenecked by the farm needed.
The problem is not only powercreep though. If the power gap between IDs is too high, it will be really hard to design a fight that is doable by all IDs comp while remaining hard enough. An example of this is WRyoshu who has EGO level clashing by turn 2, making all fight design around clashing a piece of cake bcs she snowballs the fight too hard.
@@mmlaughing6458 I mean, that’s kinda the reality of gacha games. Frankly, it’s a miracle that most IDs in this game can be used anywhere, especially when you compare this to a game like Dokkan Battle where a majority of units are just unusable in harder combat and the rest require specific team comps and still usually can’t handle certain types of events (for example, dodge units are usually fucked outside of ESBR due to enemies having auto hit attacks). Don’t get me wrong, a part of me wants to preserve this magic, but honestly with the (relative) ease at which you can consistently shard meta IDs, I would prefer we get harder fights and enemies rather than preserve the mentality of every single ID being usable in every single form of content.
Man, who let PM cook with a 38 rolling skill 2 😭😭😭 Where is the QA team and who in their right mind thought that a skill 2 that rolls 38 would be fine?
@@ryominto but several months later, Nclair/Cinqlair/Philipclair are perfectly balanced with their own areas of expertise, so that's not a great comparison
@@thecamelchannel1467 ehhh, don't know, Nclair still seems like the perfect and most stable (funny innit) Id to use if you are not sure in winning, like his ability to win clashes is the best in the game, and Cinqlair is basically the same but positive sanity. Philip seems funnily enough more honest to use than these two
@@nightranger9555 well, that's how every id works, isn't? The only difference is that minus coin ids(nclair only basically) are ALWAYS dealing more damage if they roll reverse to them coins than plus coins ones
I think the only really negative thing about the Pointillism IDs being as strong as they are has to do with the original plan for all the Ring IDs, (assuming I read it right through google translate) The idea was to have multiple Ring IDs from different schools who all apply different debuffs, and that by having them work together you could fulfill all of their conditionals, in doing so having the artists work together to create a masterpiece. With it being as easy as it is to complete their conditionals it kind of takes away from that, though I'm sure we will still see it in future ring releases. The translation I was given by google translate: (in brackets is my interpretation of the text) ... the ring finger is somewhat specialized for one keyword depending on the faction, (different factions in the ring would have different debuffs they specialized in) but by assigning multiple keywords at the same time, multiple keywords are ultimately painted on one drawing paper, (by having multiple units with different debuff focuses, they would "paint a picture" together on a target) creating various unique effects in the future, (and in doing so creating effects that would be difficult to find outside of the faction (such as actually using multiple debuffs at once) or perhaps just new debuffs(?)) complete with the effects of several ring finger personalities in the docent maestro personalities. The goal was to do that. (higher level ring IDs such as Docent/Maestro (I'm not caught up on ring lore) would use the effects applied by the other Ring IDs to apply some effect of their own) Uncut text In addition the ring finger is somewhat specialized for one keyword depending on the faction, but by assigning multiple keywords at the same time, multiple keywords are ultimately painted on one drawing paper, creating various unique effects in the future, complete with the effects of several ring finger personalities in the docent maestro personalities. The goal was to do that.
14:50 Statuses are separated into three types which seem to reflected in their text color schemes. Buffs are always written in yellow, neutral statuses (most notably things like Screwloose Wallop's "Surgery" and technically "Aggro") are brown, and debuffs are red.
The issue I see with the Ring IDs is them counting for every status, aka the thing they are changing. Why? Because then a full Ring team, whenever that happens, would be able to trigger 5 out of 7 status fusion gifts which... I mean, that would be fun to see, but I feel like that is too much tbh. Oh also you didnt mention the built in synergy that Outis has with Holiday, with her inflicting random debuffs on enemies when buffing allies, which is why her S3 is made that way. Holiday is a pretty good in general due to the big SP heal, which, paired with the random debuffs makes it, in my opinion, probably a better pick over Ebony Stem as it is more flexible due to its SP heal and easier to fuel for the Ring IDs.
They aren't counting for every status. Them synergizing with every status effect was a bug which is being fixed next update. This was stated in the letter where they decided not to nerf the ids.
They are still changing the IDs to not count for every fusion gift because it was a “”bug”” that they did. The thing PM decided not to nerf was Yi Sangs S2.
@@tropicturtle9021 Not to mention, and correct me if I'm wrong here, they weren't even nerfing the damage. They were just going to nerf the conditionals to make it less easy and it would have probably just a change from 20% to 15% additional chance per negative status and maybe a small decrease to the base chance too which wouldn't change much in the grand scheme of things.
I love the ID, but if they DID want to nerf it, they could pull something funny like introducing an 'unstable' tag until the game accounts for the new state of balance. Basically something 'better' than 3 star that when used in MD actually requires cost to use. After all, it's only slightly unbalanced right now in terms of raw damage output, rather than something so broken you'd never touch anything else like emitter was. It'd be a move very similar to what they did with Yi sang's sunshower by moving it up to WEW and making it cost more resources to get.
i will admit that the only reason i got sad with the adjustments was not about the nerfs but what i thought was an intended mechanic of interacting with all their status gifts finally having a use for all the extra gitfs that did nothing in a "build" but alas that was not the intention.
Fun tip for anyone bringing your ring sang to MD. Load up on "single-coin" ego gifts and watch em fucking slaughter enemies even more with full skill reuse, SIX def level down, etc
Like the Ring IDs, ESGOO knows how to make some fine, _fine_ art. One thing to note about the Ring IDs not touched upon is that they are *General* releases, rather than being tied to the current Season. This means even if you can't get them on the banner (or want to save up for the next WNs) you can shard them with only a few trips to the MD mines. So not only are the Ring artists powerful, they are easilt accessible. Patrons of the people, Yi Sang and Outis are! I'm a bit sad that they're getting locked to only Bleed EGO Gifts, since as they are the Ring are perfect filler units for almost ANY Status team (Poise and Charge are out of luck, but it's not as if they need the help). 'Blurn' teams were going to be a thing now like 'Bloise' , and it's a shame that potential is going to be whited out. Oh well, they still are premier Pierce units that'll gel well with Rabbith Heath and N-Faust, so no matter what I'm more than happy with them.
The one thing that OP IDs cause is an artificially-accelerated power creep curve, which is a negative. It's probably similar to the entire issue that occurred when the Shi Association stuff was released in Library of Ruina, and how the subsequent power curve adapted to accommodate to them, even after nerfs. Though, we could use power creep on the Shi IDs, Project Moon! Maybe that's worthwhile? 🙏 (I guess that's a reason they were made first; no way to have another Shi Association OP moment.)
19:32 The biggest issue in that scenario is a possible power scaling scenario. Some people in that case can decide to not pull for some of the future IDs just because they are way weaker than these two. That would force PM to create even more broken IDs to bump sales and that can lead to raising game difficulty curve to the levels that are no longer funny to do without new broken IDs. FGO went through something similiar. But its just a possible scenario, not something guaranteed so yea, its hard to exactly predcit it.
i cant believe we Suddenly, One Day got a pair of IDs that forced PM to send out a message even while their translators were on Holiday, how surprising!
oh thats great. im new and been using bleed just cuz i like the sound of it (im aware by now its bad, but pm keeps givin me bleed ids, so i was like yeah sure) and they juuust release 2 busted ids that work with my fav debuff besides sinking. i plan on tryin to make a sinking/bleed team.
As someone who loves both big numbers and game balance, I think it’s ok that Limbus Company has “broken Ids” With the way IDs are obtained, there isn’t actually a huge barrier to entry with money, you just have to save up shard crates, which isn’t abnormal to have and excess of once you’ve got a team or two. I’ve gone through most of this game without whaling, and really I don’t need to pay at all, and I still have three or four whole teams of good IDs. Character balance is really most important in a live server pvp game, and since Limbus is pve, it’s much less harmful to have overpowered units. It’s a player by player experience, and most of the rewards are granted via strategic success, like defeating the fairies from Walpurgis with X conditional, rather than ooga booga big number. The EX condition is very lenient if you’re on level, and you can just add friends if you’re really in need of an ID
So far they’ve been using nclair and W don as a power ceiling to balance strong id’s. They really don’t want to overcreep stronger than those two as they want an intended experience of difficulty for canto’s, so they balance around two things. Players that have most id’s and definently all the strong ones, and new players playing through the canto’s one by one with no break between them. It’s a bit difficult to create an intended experience for both types of players, i mean pm had to nerf canto 6 many times. I would’ve preferred the nerfs, but ringsang is probably the best id for this unfortunate situation to occur on.
i actually like his guard- being Lust is fantastic for whispers/whistles proccing. Having more meta ids that have lust defense skills that also synergize with one another that are capable of consistently proccing whistles turns a dead turn into a SP restoring turn. I cant see him leaving my team for a long time
The Ring with Status Effect team building. The Middle with (Envy) Resonance. The Fingers helping advance team building innovation really paints a bright future in my eyes~ My personal hopes for the Thumb is for them to help flesh out the Ammo mechanics even more, with maybe a bit of Ammo regen. As for the Index, I hope they could lean into the Deployment Order mechanics we've seen with the new EGO gifts or something interesting like that. The Pinky can cook whatever they want tbh, and the Sixth Finger (lead by Star-of-the-City-level, Shin-user Pete) will break the game, no doubt.
The fact both of these units are just good in a 'thrown together' team is... fucking awesome. I like having a single thing to build around, I really wanna make a dawnclair burn team, the idea I have have 2 units that just by throwing a couple of my sinking units, a rupture unit and something else and just... go and have a good amount of sucess is... really cool. I want more like this.
It strikes me that getting 11 power skill 1 might end up biting us in the butt, unless they're for really easily achieved skill bonuses. Remember the Ardor Blossom Moth skill check? Came to an unfortunate realisation nobody in my party could perform the check, because the only person in my party with a Wrath S1 was base Ishmael. Who at uptie 4, rolls an 11 max. If they release more skill checks like that, then we'll be pretty quickly screwed over by IDs slowly power creeping on their standard numbers.
I think the worst consequence of gamebreakingly strong it's is that they make other weaker id's even worse in comparison. And if new Cantos are balanced around these broken id's, it'd kinda limit the opportunity to use the weaker, but maybe more fun id's! Spicebush, my beloved, fell off so much 😢😢😢
Heck, you barely even need to build around the status requirements in Mirror Dungeons, since plenty of gifts inflict status effects; pick up something cheap like Nixie Divergence or Talisman Bundle (or if you’re luckier, Dust to Dust, Midwinter Nightmare, or Standard-Duty Battery), and that pretty much handles your status needs even with a pure Bleed team.
14:45 probably been commented already, but duel declarations and vengeance mark both count as negative effects. generally speaking if the text is red for it in-game, it's a negative effect. the pink ribbons status from ishmael's roseate desire passive also counts as negative which could be something if you're running captain ishmael, given that roseate desire itself already inflicts offense level down, paralyze and bleed
19:48 best explanation I can think of is if you make units too strong it makes it hard to sell others. In a cosmic way power creep and balance needs to exist in gacha especially since limbus is built to ne as pro-low spender as humanly possible meaning that by design the game isn’t going to compete with other gachas by default so they gotta find alternatives to keep making money while still pushing out as good and balanced content possible
The team you proposed is even better with Kurokumo Gregor instead of Middle Don, having Access to Legerdemain and Gardem of Thorns. For Envy I slot Chef Ryoshu instead of Rodya.
13:36 - She is Rodion ID This moment I really like, not as much as explaining synergies with Ring ID's, as for her cute surprised face appear, when ESGO says "Rodion ID". Dunno why, but I found that cute :3
I saved up 400 shards for sunshower and bought it before this came out. And i got 80 pulls on Walpurgisnacht with no egos and only maid ish and hook hong lu,i think i hear her voice 😭
Yeah, imho, they should've faced some nerf, at the very least, their conditions for having multiple effects (like reroll S2 or more damage on S3) should account for more effects and not just 2 non-bleed for S2 or 4 non-bleed for S3. As you said before it's really isn't a problem to just get them running at full from literally any other ID or EGO (or just casual Luck Correlates with Skill RNG) outside of MD or just from anything inside MD. Beats me why S2 didn't require you to have at least 5 of unique statuses like 25% + (15% per unique negative status) which would add up to 100% and also haha funny, paint enemy in all 5 colors (I know not only rupture, tremor, bleed, burn and sinking are needed to be applied but still)
They should have been released in a better state which is why PM needs to be properly testing IDs before full release. Nerfing an already released character is a massive no-no in gachas so PM needs to be a lot more careful going forward.
I managed to get rusty coin in a team based around the two ring ID’s (no fusion gifts) and Ring Sang did 46% of total damage and ring outis got the second most damage, which of course was not close to Ring Sang but she kept losing clashes due to shitty luck and still managed to keep up thanks to her S2
I feel it is good they didn't nerf it. If they do release a 'gatcha free limbus' when the service dies, I do think I want some kind of nerf potentially, but that is all really. I do feel mixed about the gift changes. It kinda makes sense, especially if this is the ring norm, and not just for the ring sub branch. Just sad I will likely never experience soot, bloody mist and lucky pouch on a single id because of this.
So yeah. I'll be gambling for *"Bloupture"* with these two, just gotta add talisman sinclair and Lccb ishmael, or Seven Heath. Also Outis is my favorite teacher.
I can only imagine how a future "full Ring team" could look, like every Ring ID will have the "Apply random effect" on one of their skills and maybe passive
I will NOT stand for Kurokumo Gregor erasure! He inflicts 3 different debuffs not counting bleed on enemies, which helps maintain condition for ring. He unironically became better for me to run in a bleed team with ring members instead of Pirate Gregor just because of this and ngl I don't like Pirate's reliance on crits to inflict bleed. So far the team for them that I thought of is Ring members, KK Gregor and Ryoshu, Hook Lu, Captain Ish. It's very unfortunate that Uptie 4 didn't give better numbers to NFaust, because that 12 rolling skill 3 is just sad to see.
I absolutely love these ID's, especially since they're the ring and that's my favorite finger. I do hope that, if PM isn't satisfied with the ID power of the ring, that they just kinda ignore them when designing future ID's. Glad they're getting left as is. Also, just for the funsies, I'll share my personal team I've been using in MD4 and Erlking test fights (haven't gotten around to RR testing yet). It's very similar to Esgoo's so I'll explain the differences that are there: The two Ring ID's Kraust KK Ryoshu. Her animations are satisfying:>. That aside though, new bleed support means you can actually see her danage conditionals get off the ground, and she inflicts 3 separate debuffs aside from bleed across her kit. Pirate/KK Gregor: These are here for sloth gen and access to Garden of Roses ego, since lust is the bleed sin. KK has more debuffs, but pirate is the better ID so pick your poison Any Rodya (I've been using KK, but Liu Rodya works fine) My team geberates a bit of every sin with the sloth addition and lets KK Ryoshu shine a bit so I've been having fun with it
All these IDs really showed me is damn they need to playtest these better, which hopefully will improve in the near future considering they're hiring. I can't be too annoyed at them being broken considering they're standard banner, and thus everyone can get them.
At least in the community im in, it was funny seeing the first reception to the skills being along the lines of "this is so bad", "stupid conditionals people wont bother to apply" and other negative reviews, then the IDs went live and the opinion did a complete 180, never before had we seen so much power applied so easily. I commend PM for trying to make things fun, but holy crap, they didnt playtest them nearly enough, play 2 MDs with random teams, any team, and you will immediatly notice how absolutely OP they are, either in Bleed or raw power.
I ran Ring Sang, Ring Outis, Kk Ryo, Hook Hong, N Faust and KK Gregor and it works fairly well, it isn't as centered around the ring ids being able to spam their reuse but it is a fairly viable garden of thorns team
"What negative impact does he have on the game" Well I wanted to save up for ID X but now with how strong HE is apparently I have to buy the ID now because that's where all the power is if I want to have any chance against boss Z that's giving me trouble. I wanted Rodian Liu but fuck it, guess I'm getting the bleed boy instead.
Can't believe you forgot to mention the absolute best synergy with the ring, sunshower heathcliff who has sinking count, rupture, fragile AND paralysis
Imma just admit, I like the ring IDs for their appearance. Admittedly I do find them fun to use too despite how crazy they are. Though I’m in the boat that nerfing him now would be a tall order, and extremely risky because of the nature of the gacha game. From what I could remember if they nerfed him it would’ve been like putting water on an electrical fire. But on the other hand, I agree with esgoo. The fact two IDs needed changes after getting out of the kitchen does raise concerns, especially for the future with power creep.
I just made a team of Ring sang, N faust, W Ryoshu, Kimssault, Deci Rodion (probably gonna change her for captain Ishmael when I get her), and Ninclair. Which due to all the lust affinity and ring outis’ passive + liu gregor & faust passives make Ninclair gain sanity faster than he can lose it so he can be used non-stop with no fear of corrosion. And besides kim, all of them have a 4 coin skill.
![Garden of Thorns: A Masterclass in Disappointment [Limbus Company]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fyc1rJPn6zY/mqdefault.jpg)
![Garden of Thorns: A Masterclass in Disappointment [Limbus Company]](/img/tr.png)
![The Strongest IDs [Limbus Company]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qjBeb1jy4E4/mqdefault.jpg)
I find it funny that "Suddenly, One Day" and "Holiday" got caught in the crossfire just for existing.
Suddenly one Holliday ID
How so?
@@3ndm3 They also do the Random Status Effect.
You can tell whether something counts as a negative effect by their color in the game. Declare Duel and Vengeance Mark are red so they count
Played since launch. Never knew that. Thanks!
Wait like the text or the icon?
@@MoonbowOpus The literal text. "Poise" is written in yellow cause it's a positive effect, "Fragile" is written in red cause it's negative. Some like "Aggro" and "K Corp Ampules" are in brown, I guess that stands for neutral
Thank you for this!
@@gantifandor7593Make sense,since both Aggro and K Corp Ampule can be both good or bad
I mean Ampule litteraly insta kill
4:40 I actually like the animation for Yi Sang's skill 2. Though it's hard to see basically every time another coin is rolled another hole appears on the enemy basically like a "you're already dead" kinda thing. It's kinda hard to see though between the paint and enemy models.
It's easier to see in the pv, but in battle its still visible
The coins awkwardly appearing is disappointing because seeing those coins appear every time you reuse them is so satisfying. But enemies bursting in a stream of colors is cool to look at.
and the fact that's it's .2 seconds long
kinda like 7 yi sang's S3
To be honest, I am perfectly ok with the Ring IDs being busted for one reason, they are standard fare IDs. Not Seasonal or Walpergis locked. Anyone can shard them, so everyone has a fair shot at getting these powerful IDs.
Wtf I agree with them being op being fine, but in a gacha game the limited shit should be the op shit as shown consistently in walpurgis and other gacha games like genshin to encourage fomo for people to pull. Yes this is a gacha tactic
@@marshscarf7467 pm has no idea how to make a gacha, no wonder limbus is the best one
@@marshscarf7467 that's exactly why it's great, and why would one complain? you and another can get it too, so it's fair game
@@bruh_8129 I mean, poor burn teams are missing not just magic bullet outis to multiply their damage output but now dawn office sinclair to beat the hell out of people thanks to walpurgisnacht
@@KuroTrashedpeople scared of the powercreep in the future content, which will be balance on these op units so the more “normal” unit stand 0 chance and also have 0 use in that future.
Which was happened in a lot of games before not just schizo shits
hello it is me WingBeat Fan
I haven't done the exact calculations yet, but the initial SP burst of up to +18 SP from Yi Sang's support passive is a massive boost to its consistency.
I wrote up something for wingbeat already, taking into account Butler Faust support passive as well.
(taken from some other comment i made)
The two support passives are obviously Butler Faust and Ring Yi Sang
*Uptie 3 Butler Faust, very simple, ally with least SP heals 2 sp when hitting a target with 5+ sinking.
Use Molar Ish for this since if the target has tremor, she's completely sinking neutral.
Max 4 times, so 8 total SP regen.
Ring Yi Sang's support passive's wording is weird.
"1 Ally with the least SP heals 2 SP On Hit for every type of negative effect on the target. (max 6)"
*This doesn't mean max 6 negative effects, it means max 6 SP.*
"If the target has Bleed, heal 3 additional SP"
For a total of 9 SP.
And then max 2 times per turn.
So for the first two coins, ish regains, (9+2), (9+2), SP, meaning she'll gain a total of 20-21 SP, due to wingbeat's second coin losing 1-2 SP on heads hit.
On the third coin, Ish is at *40 SP minimum*. This is a HUGE increase to the likelihood of hitting heads compared to the 18-19 SP she'd be at without these support passives.
Her SP looks something like this, starting at 20: 31 > 40 > 40 > 40 > 38 > 36 > 34 SP. Assuming the 1-2 sanity loss rolls max each time. Of course, that's very unlikely, and you can notice in the video that Ish actually originally started with 36 SP and ended at 38, meaning she GAINED SP from using Wingbeat in this situation.
(again, reusing my comment from another video)
Oh and in terms of other IDs and EGO, not sure it's even worth mentioning, but obviously Rodya for Rime Shank and Sanguine Desire can be very helpful, to maintain Sinking and Bleed for both support passives. Just be careful about her sanity, since if it's lower than Ish's, Ish won't get the SP healing. Luckily, Sanguine Desire's "Bleed Count doesn't decrease" effect is [Combat Start] so as long as Rodya's slower than Ish, you'll be fine.
And of course, in general, anyone who can apply long-lasting debuffs like tremor, or unique debuffs like Butler's Mark, Nails, Echoes of the Manor, Declared Duel, Vengeance Mark, etc are all helpful to increase the reliability of Yi Sang's support passive. (Although I will admit, jury's still out on whether some of those actually count towards it, I haven't bothered to check).
EDIT: This tech is probably like completely useless, the only time wingbeat max roll will matter is low turn railway, in which case just reset forever. But this is what Limbus is for. Glory to coin flips.
🤓 (thank you so much for your insight , helped me with my doubts)
Little thing, isn't bulter faust +3 sp 4 times? Wingbeat keeps winning
*edit: Yup just checked, total 12 sp from Faust :)
@@TheCreeperStalker That might be at uptie 4, I haven’t done that. In which case yes, the consistency improves even more. We’re cooking.
@@mrrp405 Ah looking at the wiki you're right, that's a UT4 change. It's lovely
🤓
Huh
That title perfectly describes the ring in general now that i think about it.
Has a nice "ring" too it
@@puccifanboy4966shotguns knees*
Ryoshu: "Lol, traaaaash!"
@@plinfan6541L.T.
Absolutely absurd to me that they managed to make an ID almost as good as W Corp Meursault.
Almost insulting to his legacy, I’m sure.
I found that running a Bleed/poise team yields the best results for the ring Ids, with the main team being
>Both Ring Ids
>N Faust
>Pequod Ish and Heath
>Pirate Gregor
This comp allows the team to easily build up to all of the necessary bleed conditionals they have, which in turn allows the poise Ids to consistently build up their poise. The only downside is that you don't get any debuffs other than bleed outside of N Faust's kit, which means you have to lean more on being lucky to get the Ring's coin reuses.
Doesn't Ish inflict burn too?
@@Lucamy100ye, Liu Assoc IDs in general (Meursault inflicts burn on support passive)
@@Lucamy100 yeah on her skill 2 and 3, but it's so little I didn't think it was worth mentioning
How did I completely forget about Pirate Gregor when I complained to a friend about how he had bleed conditionals but S3 IDs had mediocre bleed application. Well I know what I'm doing next.
I dont think you need much luck, since he has A LOT of coins that inflict a random debuff, along routis doing it on her passive at turn Start
bleed, nails, and literally anything else. Welcome to the new N Corp.
edit: I can't believe you forgot the fourth reason: she's a rodion id, and thus gets access to Rime Shank to slap Sinking onto the enemy with a decent to high count.
That would contradict with him recommending Effervescent Corrosion. Since that not only slaps on Tremor, which is a longer lasting debuff, but also Bind.
Technically Rim Shank can also debuff even more thanks to the passive but there's another turn delay cause the Attack Power Down and Bind only goes into effect at best two turns after the initial Rime Shank use, and only if Rodion can manage to hit them while they still have the Sinking on them
I think that was the joke. You keep thinking he’s gonna mention one of the best EGO in the game, and then he drops Effervescent Corrosion after so much buildup.
That’s kinda the thing though, you actually DO want effervescent more, the debuff it applies lasts 7 turns and no less, while sinking could very well be gone that turn.
2:28
it's 45 raw, 10+15+20=45
I did a silly, your honor.
[18:08] This, right here, is why I love the Ring IDs from a design perspective. Not only are they strong in general, but they are fantastic additions for NEW AND F2P PLAYERS, who often don't have the IDs/E.G.O to build teams around just one status effect. The Ring IDs are direct support for "hybrid" teams, which a lot of new/F2P players are forced to run for a while.
Any ID that makes me bring Kurokumo gregor to the battlefield is peak, I love his animations so getting a reason to use him is awesome
I do think tho that nerfs can and should happen if something is whack balance-wise. Otherwise the power level will keep increasing and increasing with every such accident and we'll reach a point a year from now where old IDs feel like ass
@@pitagor2 hopefully PM gets their shit together and starts properly testing IDs before release which they clearly aren’t doing going off how the last two ID releases went. Ring-Sang being broken isn’t going to have any major impact on the game outside of giving players an incredibly powerful option for a Yi-sang id, but if PM lets this become a habit then the game could seriously start to suffer from insane power creep.
@@pitagor2 Agreed. At the very least they should have nerfed how stupidly easy it was to proc the coin reuse. Make the base chance 30% and make the additional chance 15%. Now you need 5 negative status effects to make reuse guaranteed, doesn't really change much but still makes you have to think more about team building.
@@freshlymemed5680 Feels like they should've added a condition where the reuses do not contribute to the coin value. That way you would still deal 18+18+18=54, which is a much more reasonable amount even if still high
@@pitagor2 Until, maybe, Uptie V. Just like how U4 fixed BL and 7assoc Yi Sang and other Sinner's IDs, U5 and future Upties should fix the ID scalings, unless we completely stop at U4 or 5. However at that point, I feel like another door will open in the Limbus that gives us access to Egoshards while also adding more bonuses so we get more of it later on if they decide to go above U5.
19:36 That unknowable consequence is called a steeper slope for Sisyphus
I think the main worry with releasing IDs of this strength is how you release future ones that compete. We already have seen R Cliff and N Clair force Heath and Sinclair to get additional top tier IDs to compete with their generic utility, and while I can't say much about the Ring general utility outside of MD, there's also the issue of status competition. How can you design another Bleed Yi Sang or Outis ID when these are so essential and powerful? We've seen somewhat similarly to an extent with Spicebush vs Dieci Yi Sang, with Dieci attempting to copy Dieci Rodya's tanking abilities in a failed attempt to compete with Spicebush's integral role in Sinking, and to a lesser extent you could say Butler Ishmael tries being Poise and Sinking, statuses Ishmael already has incredibly good IDs in, ending with her having no real purpose outside of Slash Fragility. This is mostly theoretical atm, and we have seen N Clair be shoved almost entirely out of Burn because of Dawn Clair, so PM has dealt with this before, I just think I can understand why they really wanted to nerf these IDs.
Simple. Just accept the fact they don’t need to compete and instead release IDs that fulfill distinctly different purposes. Even with ringsang existing, spicebrush, W corp, and Blade Lineage Yi-Sang all still have a place in the game and will continue to be used because they effectively fulfill distinct synergy based roles that Ring sang can’t.
As for “how do we make a new bleed yi-sang that compares?” We probably.. don’t. Just like how boatworks Ishmael is probably always going to be the best sinking Ishmael ID and Magic Bullet Outis is always going to be the best burn Outis ID, Ringsang will probably always be the best bleed Yi-Sang. Which isn’t really the end of the world.
The beautiful part of the title is very accurate for them
I'm really happy about these two IDs because they just revolutionize team building.
I like the idea of just picking the IDs I love and make them work because Ring IDs just want debuffs.
This video is really valuable for me, the way you slice up their kits helps me understand these IDs much better than reading it in the game, with the limited screen on a phone.
I too believe that Yi Sang’s s2 is unnecessarily strong, but nerfing it now is a massive tall order to ask due to the nature of gacha games. It would take getting collective agreement in the community to get the nerf through which is nigh impossible because of desires and demographics being wildly different. If there were still time to conduct the nerf, one interesting nerf would be to have the reuse condition reduce coin power by 2 or 3 but increase in count application, but that is merely an idle thought.
I think these IDs are awesome for the health of the game in the long run because they make so many older IDs more relevant. The only scenario where I think PM would ever go too far while making strong/broken IDs is if it made 0 sense in story context and came out of nowhere, while being so jaw-droppingly broken that you might as well have given us a constant lunar memory buff. The biggest downside of this is: If this is how strong the mere Ring students are, then how broken are the actual docents and maestros going to be? If they're weaker or undertuned, then many will of course be disappointed. But if we ever get higher-ranked syndicate members of the fingers, they'd have to be crazy broken or unique to even be accurate in terms of power-scaling to compete with these two... or it might just be that these two will be the exception.
Also, notice the Ring Researcher (which some considered to be students) were quite the hassle pre-nerf too and still are quite strong enemies too, so I would see that this is in fact quite accurate, even the middle ids and the middle Little Siblings we fought did hit quite hard while of course not relying on resonance due to be enemy fights, I still see that Fingers members even if the lower ranks are pretty powerful all things considered.
I don't think we'll ever see ID's for docents or maestros. We don't get ID's for figures that are too strong, usually. We never got a Ricardo ID, for example.
In Leviathan, Vergilius fights a docent. And although he beats the docent, the fact that it takes him more than 5 seconds to do so is a clear sign that docents are far above the power level of ID's
@meeszijlstra5426 ricardo only showed up for a moment then dipped, but we know he's coming back some day and will likely get his ID then. They've teased the idea of color fixer ids, so even a maestro is on the table, it's just a matter of when.
I like it better if PMoon can handle the difficulty curves good enough, balancing the ids with current level enemies, then we can see the sinners progress with their ids in strength. Broken ids? not a problem, the enemy is also broken at late games and makes it fair at that point. It only makes sense for a color to fight a color, not a gangleader of some backstreets gang. Since we're gonna face the higher ups of N corp eventually, I think we can keep our hopes up that stronger ids will come as the story progress. Though this could break early game if someone gets really lucky with their first 20 pulls……
@@jacobpamplin6449I’d only see pre-color fixer ID’s. Maybe like a young Roland ID, a fair bit away from Charles office level.
Kurokumo Gregor provides even more than you'd expect for the bleed team when accounting for the Ring ID's mechanics. On top of having high clashing power against bleeding targets, he provides reliable Sloth gen on S1, offense level down and atk power down on S2, and offense level down and plus coin drop on S3. These debuffs are all very useful, and he only needs 7+ bleed potency to fulfill most requirements on his skills, except for S3, which requires 10+ bleed potency for the plus coin drop. The Sloth gen also helps in fueling Yi Sang's Sunshower and Crow's Eye View, as well as Wishing Cairn. The Sloth gen can also help fuel a number of other EGOs like Holiday Outis, Effervescent Rodya, and Legerdemain, if opting to run Kurokumo Ryoshu on the bleed team for Gluttony gen and high bleed count application + debuffs.
S3 only needs 7+ potency for the plus coin drop if he's uptie 4 and you'll want uptie 4 for better consistency in clashing anyways.
@@freshlymemed5680 Ah, my mistake. I haven't gotten Kurokumo Gregor to UT4 as of yet. Been working hard on my Poise team, which is mostly finished. Now to do my Bleed team.
Uptie V is either gonna do all these new IDs ungodly dirty or some old ones are gonna get INSANE
Pequod Yi Sang reusing Relentless Stabbing 10 times at Uptie V is gonna be funny
As an entertaining team building point, I used these guys as an excuse to actually use n-don.
It was both pointillists, grippy Faust, n-don, hook lu, and n-cliff. Mostly an excuse to take the n-don out for a walk since I love her but the tremor bleed overlap before was a bit lacking.
N don is good in ncorp though 🥺
I've been using Don recently in an Ncorp setup and honestly the mere fact that she has decent rolls on her s1 and s2 makes her valuable there. Really wish Ncliff didn't need 3 Ncorp buddies to activate his passive though.
Good thing about an ID that strong is that, like with Nclair, they're the prelude to a new Uptie. Which means PM can apply what they learned with newer IDs and make older ones even more fun to play with than before.
I think powercreep isn't so much of an issue in regards to damage and status. I'd love an ID that comes out that has a single coin skill basically a clone of Rime Shank, or even better, one that has a clone of bird's eye view to help all of the ID's that rely on rolling higher speed.
The biggest issue though is powercreep in regards to rolls. I understand that more consistent clash wins can make or break an ID, but if rolls keep trending higher and higher, then enemies will also roll higher, and higher. Creating a sort of feedback loop where by the end, an ID that rolls a 9 on s1 is going to pale in comparison to one that released rolling a 16, or even higher. I think this is probably the aspect of the game that project moon should be keeping the closest eye on, since unlike ruina, these identities are (allegedly) supposed to be usable regardless of where in the story you are at.
Way I see it. I feel that future upties are gonna start having more significant impact on the lesser performing IDs in order to properly bring them in line. UT4 felt a lot like an experiment into how they can handle future upties with how safe it was for most IDs.
And at a certain point, PM will probably have to introduce a new item to handle further upties, that way thread doesn't get bottlenecked by the farm needed.
The problem is not only powercreep though. If the power gap between IDs is too high, it will be really hard to design a fight that is doable by all IDs comp while remaining hard enough.
An example of this is WRyoshu who has EGO level clashing by turn 2, making all fight design around clashing a piece of cake bcs she snowballs the fight too hard.
@@mmlaughing6458
I mean, that’s kinda the reality of gacha games. Frankly, it’s a miracle that most IDs in this game can be used anywhere, especially when you compare this to a game like Dokkan Battle where a majority of units are just unusable in harder combat and the rest require specific team comps and still usually can’t handle certain types of events (for example, dodge units are usually fucked outside of ESBR due to enemies having auto hit attacks). Don’t get me wrong, a part of me wants to preserve this magic, but honestly with the (relative) ease at which you can consistently shard meta IDs, I would prefer we get harder fights and enemies rather than preserve the mentality of every single ID being usable in every single form of content.
Just nerf Sang's S2... don't make it roll 38... that's obscene
such a fair roll amount!
Pm: i love kimsult being 20x in MD
Pm: NOOO RING ID Y U SO STRONG
bro yall made the character
I shit you not someone over on Reddit brought up how nerfing him is anti-consumer behavior.
@@eshav7438 "mental jumps". My brother why do you think almost all gacha games dont do nerfs? Not to mention PM themself cancelled the patch nerf
@@ComputerGamingg I know it just a joke,but it just minor adjustment for md... uh just give me that nerd emoji
Is it just me or does anyone else sometimes read ESGOO as "LESSSGOOOOOO" and get randomly super pumped for no reason?
0:13 Esgoo are you secretly part of the ring?
i just upt4 him and his s2 is literally the most insane skill ever man
Thanks for putting so much effort into such niche things. Like geniunely amazing thanks. Hope you wont burn out
Man, who let PM cook with a 38 rolling skill 2 😭😭😭 Where is the QA team and who in their right mind thought that a skill 2 that rolls 38 would be fine?
it's the same people who thought making Nclair Id with his rolls right at the start of the game is a good idea
@@ryominto but several months later, Nclair/Cinqlair/Philipclair are perfectly balanced with their own areas of expertise, so that's not a great comparison
@@ryominto the difference is his damage falls into the pit if he even thinks of rolling heads
@@thecamelchannel1467 ehhh, don't know, Nclair still seems like the perfect and most stable (funny innit) Id to use if you are not sure in winning, like his ability to win clashes is the best in the game, and Cinqlair is basically the same but positive sanity. Philip seems funnily enough more honest to use than these two
@@nightranger9555 well, that's how every id works, isn't? The only difference is that minus coin ids(nclair only basically) are ALWAYS dealing more damage if they roll reverse to them coins than plus coins ones
I think the only really negative thing about the Pointillism IDs being as strong as they are has to do with the original plan for all the Ring IDs, (assuming I read it right through google translate)
The idea was to have multiple Ring IDs from different schools who all apply different debuffs, and that by having them work together you could fulfill all of their conditionals, in doing so having the artists work together to create a masterpiece.
With it being as easy as it is to complete their conditionals it kind of takes away from that, though I'm sure we will still see it in future ring releases.
The translation I was given by google translate:
(in brackets is my interpretation of the text)
... the ring finger is somewhat specialized for one keyword depending on the faction,
(different factions in the ring would have different debuffs they specialized in)
but by assigning multiple keywords at the same time, multiple keywords are ultimately painted on one drawing paper,
(by having multiple units with different debuff focuses, they would "paint a picture" together on a target)
creating various unique effects in the future,
(and in doing so creating effects that would be difficult to find outside of the faction (such as actually using multiple debuffs at once) or perhaps just new debuffs(?))
complete with the effects of several ring finger personalities in the docent maestro personalities.
The goal was to do that.
(higher level ring IDs such as Docent/Maestro (I'm not caught up on ring lore) would use the effects applied by the other Ring IDs to apply some effect of their own)
Uncut text
In addition the ring finger is somewhat specialized for one keyword depending on the faction, but by assigning multiple keywords at the same time, multiple keywords are ultimately painted on one drawing paper, creating various unique effects in the future, complete with the effects of several ring finger personalities in the docent maestro personalities.
The goal was to do that.
14:50 Statuses are separated into three types which seem to reflected in their text color schemes. Buffs are always written in yellow, neutral statuses (most notably things like Screwloose Wallop's "Surgery" and technically "Aggro") are brown, and debuffs are red.
Wild ESGOO Encounter.
The issue I see with the Ring IDs is them counting for every status, aka the thing they are changing. Why? Because then a full Ring team, whenever that happens, would be able to trigger 5 out of 7 status fusion gifts which... I mean, that would be fun to see, but I feel like that is too much tbh.
Oh also you didnt mention the built in synergy that Outis has with Holiday, with her inflicting random debuffs on enemies when buffing allies, which is why her S3 is made that way. Holiday is a pretty good in general due to the big SP heal, which, paired with the random debuffs makes it, in my opinion, probably a better pick over Ebony Stem as it is more flexible due to its SP heal and easier to fuel for the Ring IDs.
They aren't counting for every status. Them synergizing with every status effect was a bug which is being fixed next update. This was stated in the letter where they decided not to nerf the ids.
@@thegoldenraysoftheglorious1180 I did not know it was a bug but I knew it was getting removed
They are still changing the IDs to not count for every fusion gift because it was a “”bug”” that they did. The thing PM decided not to nerf was Yi Sangs S2.
@@tropicturtle9021 Not to mention, and correct me if I'm wrong here, they weren't even nerfing the damage. They were just going to nerf the conditionals to make it less easy and it would have probably just a change from 20% to 15% additional chance per negative status and maybe a small decrease to the base chance too which wouldn't change much in the grand scheme of things.
Just have Paper Chairman inflict a "Paid In Exposure" debuff on Ring IDs.
I love the ID, but if they DID want to nerf it, they could pull something funny like introducing an 'unstable' tag until the game accounts for the new state of balance. Basically something 'better' than 3 star that when used in MD actually requires cost to use. After all, it's only slightly unbalanced right now in terms of raw damage output, rather than something so broken you'd never touch anything else like emitter was. It'd be a move very similar to what they did with Yi sang's sunshower by moving it up to WEW and making it cost more resources to get.
i will admit that the only reason i got sad with the adjustments was not about the nerfs but what i thought was an intended mechanic of interacting with all their status gifts finally having a use for all the extra gitfs that did nothing in a "build" but alas that was not the intention.
Fun tip for anyone bringing your ring sang to MD. Load up on "single-coin" ego gifts and watch em fucking slaughter enemies even more with full skill reuse, SIX def level down, etc
Like the Ring IDs, ESGOO knows how to make some fine, _fine_ art.
One thing to note about the Ring IDs not touched upon is that they are *General* releases, rather than being tied to the current Season. This means even if you can't get them on the banner (or want to save up for the next WNs) you can shard them with only a few trips to the MD mines. So not only are the Ring artists powerful, they are easilt accessible. Patrons of the people, Yi Sang and Outis are!
I'm a bit sad that they're getting locked to only Bleed EGO Gifts, since as they are the Ring are perfect filler units for almost ANY Status team (Poise and Charge are out of luck, but it's not as if they need the help). 'Blurn' teams were going to be a thing now like 'Bloise' , and it's a shame that potential is going to be whited out. Oh well, they still are premier Pierce units that'll gel well with Rabbith Heath and N-Faust, so no matter what I'm more than happy with them.
Five different ailments?
Honorary FF Marlboro!
XD
The one thing that OP IDs cause is an artificially-accelerated power creep curve, which is a negative. It's probably similar to the entire issue that occurred when the Shi Association stuff was released in Library of Ruina, and how the subsequent power curve adapted to accommodate to them, even after nerfs.
Though, we could use power creep on the Shi IDs, Project Moon! Maybe that's worthwhile? 🙏 (I guess that's a reason they were made first; no way to have another Shi Association OP moment.)
19:32 The biggest issue in that scenario is a possible power scaling scenario. Some people in that case can decide to not pull for some of the future IDs just because they are way weaker than these two. That would force PM to create even more broken IDs to bump sales and that can lead to raising game difficulty curve to the levels that are no longer funny to do without new broken IDs. FGO went through something similiar. But its just a possible scenario, not something guaranteed so yea, its hard to exactly predcit it.
i cant believe we Suddenly, One Day got a pair of IDs that forced PM to send out a message even while their translators were on Holiday, how surprising!
oh thats great. im new and been using bleed just cuz i like the sound of it (im aware by now its bad, but pm keeps givin me bleed ids, so i was like yeah sure) and they juuust release 2 busted ids that work with my fav debuff besides sinking. i plan on tryin to make a sinking/bleed team.
As someone who loves both big numbers and game balance, I think it’s ok that Limbus Company has “broken Ids”
With the way IDs are obtained, there isn’t actually a huge barrier to entry with money, you just have to save up shard crates, which isn’t abnormal to have and excess of once you’ve got a team or two. I’ve gone through most of this game without whaling, and really I don’t need to pay at all, and I still have three or four whole teams of good IDs.
Character balance is really most important in a live server pvp game, and since Limbus is pve, it’s much less harmful to have overpowered units. It’s a player by player experience, and most of the rewards are granted via strategic success, like defeating the fairies from Walpurgis with X conditional, rather than ooga booga big number. The EX condition is very lenient if you’re on level, and you can just add friends if you’re really in need of an ID
So far they’ve been using nclair and W don as a power ceiling to balance strong id’s. They really don’t want to overcreep stronger than those two as they want an intended experience of difficulty for canto’s, so they balance around two things.
Players that have most id’s and definently all the strong ones,
and new players playing through the canto’s one by one with no break between them.
It’s a bit difficult to create an intended experience for both types of players, i mean pm had to nerf canto 6 many times.
I would’ve preferred the nerfs, but ringsang is probably the best id for this unfortunate situation to occur on.
i actually like his guard- being Lust is fantastic for whispers/whistles proccing. Having more meta ids that have lust defense skills that also synergize with one another that are capable of consistently proccing whistles turns a dead turn into a SP restoring turn. I cant see him leaving my team for a long time
The Ring with Status Effect team building. The Middle with (Envy) Resonance. The Fingers helping advance team building innovation really paints a bright future in my eyes~
My personal hopes for the Thumb is for them to help flesh out the Ammo mechanics even more, with maybe a bit of Ammo regen. As for the Index, I hope they could lean into the Deployment Order mechanics we've seen with the new EGO gifts or something interesting like that. The Pinky can cook whatever they want tbh, and the Sixth Finger (lead by Star-of-the-City-level, Shin-user Pete) will break the game, no doubt.
ESGOO actually interacting with the units and stuff is an addition to the video that I didn't know I needed. I hope he does more of it.
wut where did my 22minutes and 46 seconds go to? got so immersed love ur video a lot
The fact both of these units are just good in a 'thrown together' team is... fucking awesome. I like having a single thing to build around, I really wanna make a dawnclair burn team, the idea I have have 2 units that just by throwing a couple of my sinking units, a rupture unit and something else and just... go and have a good amount of sucess is... really cool. I want more like this.
It strikes me that getting 11 power skill 1 might end up biting us in the butt, unless they're for really easily achieved skill bonuses.
Remember the Ardor Blossom Moth skill check? Came to an unfortunate realisation nobody in my party could perform the check, because the only person in my party with a Wrath S1 was base Ishmael. Who at uptie 4, rolls an 11 max.
If they release more skill checks like that, then we'll be pretty quickly screwed over by IDs slowly power creeping on their standard numbers.
OMG MY FAVORITE YUTUBER POSTED AGAIN YIPPEE HURRAY, I CANT WAIT FOR THIS HANDSOME UA-camR TO POST NEXT TIME :)
Always love your content!! And congrats on such a quick video turn around!
I think the worst consequence of gamebreakingly strong it's is that they make other weaker id's even worse in comparison. And if new Cantos are balanced around these broken id's, it'd kinda limit the opportunity to use the weaker, but maybe more fun id's! Spicebush, my beloved, fell off so much 😢😢😢
Heck, you barely even need to build around the status requirements in Mirror Dungeons, since plenty of gifts inflict status effects; pick up something cheap like Nixie Divergence or Talisman Bundle (or if you’re luckier, Dust to Dust, Midwinter Nightmare, or Standard-Duty Battery), and that pretty much handles your status needs even with a pure Bleed team.
a mess so beautiful it outdamages Nclair
Anything outdamages nclair nowadays
@@rotonek2887 that's...a massive fucking stretch. He's still used in the new 27 turns RR3 wr right now ua-cam.com/video/Ft9kwRtDOgw/v-deo.html
YESSSS EVERYONE WAKE UP NEW ESGOO VID DROPPED
14:45 probably been commented already, but duel declarations and vengeance mark both count as negative effects. generally speaking if the text is red for it in-game, it's a negative effect. the pink ribbons status from ishmael's roseate desire passive also counts as negative which could be something if you're running captain ishmael, given that roseate desire itself already inflicts offense level down, paralyze and bleed
19:48 best explanation I can think of is if you make units too strong it makes it hard to sell others.
In a cosmic way power creep and balance needs to exist in gacha especially since limbus is built to ne as pro-low spender as humanly possible meaning that by design the game isn’t going to compete with other gachas by default so they gotta find alternatives to keep making money while still pushing out as good and balanced content possible
Turns out everything's coming up N Faust. Invest today.
The team you proposed is even better with Kurokumo Gregor instead of Middle Don, having Access to Legerdemain and Gardem of Thorns.
For Envy I slot Chef Ryoshu instead of Rodya.
13:36 - She is Rodion ID
This moment I really like, not as much as explaining synergies with Ring ID's, as for her cute surprised face appear, when ESGO says "Rodion ID".
Dunno why, but I found that cute :3
I saved up 400 shards for sunshower and bought it before this came out. And i got 80 pulls on Walpurgisnacht with no egos and only maid ish and hook hong lu,i think i hear her voice 😭
I LITERALLY
JUST MADE A TEN PULL ON THE YI SANG BANNER
FIRST TEN PULL ON IT
AND GOT BOTH OF THEM
I'M GOING INSANE HAHAHAHAHAHAH
Yeah, imho, they should've faced some nerf, at the very least, their conditions for having multiple effects (like reroll S2 or more damage on S3) should account for more effects and not just 2 non-bleed for S2 or 4 non-bleed for S3.
As you said before it's really isn't a problem to just get them running at full from literally any other ID or EGO (or just casual Luck Correlates with Skill RNG) outside of MD or just from anything inside MD.
Beats me why S2 didn't require you to have at least 5 of unique statuses like 25% + (15% per unique negative status) which would add up to 100% and also haha funny, paint enemy in all 5 colors (I know not only rupture, tremor, bleed, burn and sinking are needed to be applied but still)
They should have been released in a better state which is why PM needs to be properly testing IDs before full release. Nerfing an already released character is a massive no-no in gachas so PM needs to be a lot more careful going forward.
I managed to get rusty coin in a team based around the two ring ID’s (no fusion gifts) and Ring Sang did 46% of total damage and ring outis got the second most damage, which of course was not close to Ring Sang but she kept losing clashes due to shitty luck and still managed to keep up thanks to her S2
PLEASE give us a rodion 000 before you hire the testers kim
ESGOO channeling his inner Ahab at 11:19
The goat jumpscares us with a banger
I feel it is good they didn't nerf it. If they do release a 'gatcha free limbus' when the service dies, I do think I want some kind of nerf potentially, but that is all really. I do feel mixed about the gift changes. It kinda makes sense, especially if this is the ring norm, and not just for the ring sub branch. Just sad I will likely never experience soot, bloody mist and lucky pouch on a single id because of this.
A+
So yeah. I'll be gambling for *"Bloupture"* with these two, just gotta add talisman sinclair and Lccb ishmael, or Seven Heath. Also Outis is my favorite teacher.
ESGOO is canonically a black cube with the letters "ES" on it.
the reason why project moon added the ring id is because its ring without the i!
1:09 Once I saw the F grade, I know what will happen
Also should I get spice bush or ring pointillist yisang
God I love the ring IDs so much
Got both of them in a single 10 roll, trying to get N Faust now
I can only imagine how a future "full Ring team" could look, like every Ring ID will have the "Apply random effect" on one of their skills and maybe passive
I will NOT stand for Kurokumo Gregor erasure! He inflicts 3 different debuffs not counting bleed on enemies, which helps maintain condition for ring. He unironically became better for me to run in a bleed team with ring members instead of Pirate Gregor just because of this and ngl I don't like Pirate's reliance on crits to inflict bleed.
So far the team for them that I thought of is Ring members, KK Gregor and Ryoshu, Hook Lu, Captain Ish. It's very unfortunate that Uptie 4 didn't give better numbers to NFaust, because that 12 rolling skill 3 is just sad to see.
I absolutely love these ID's, especially since they're the ring and that's my favorite finger. I do hope that, if PM isn't satisfied with the ID power of the ring, that they just kinda ignore them when designing future ID's. Glad they're getting left as is.
Also, just for the funsies, I'll share my personal team I've been using in MD4 and Erlking test fights (haven't gotten around to RR testing yet). It's very similar to Esgoo's so I'll explain the differences that are there:
The two Ring ID's
Kraust
KK Ryoshu. Her animations are satisfying:>. That aside though, new bleed support means you can actually see her danage conditionals get off the ground, and she inflicts 3 separate debuffs aside from bleed across her kit.
Pirate/KK Gregor: These are here for sloth gen and access to Garden of Roses ego, since lust is the bleed sin. KK has more debuffs, but pirate is the better ID so pick your poison
Any Rodya (I've been using KK, but Liu Rodya works fine)
My team geberates a bit of every sin with the sloth addition and lets KK Ryoshu shine a bit so I've been having fun with it
Idk, this feels for Walpurgischact to me than dawn Sinclair
All these IDs really showed me is damn they need to playtest these better, which hopefully will improve in the near future considering they're hiring. I can't be too annoyed at them being broken considering they're standard banner, and thus everyone can get them.
also, cant wait for the thumb IDs so they can make Ammo a supported archetype more than last cig + bullet outis
A team I've had alot of fun with has been Liu Ishmael, Liu Ryoshu, NClair, NFaust, Ring Outis, & Ring Yisang. Hybrid bleed burn is pretty fun ngl
Ring ids also gave KK Greg and Ryoshu more sense to use
Don't nerf stuff, just buff old stuff.
It's always better.
At least in the community im in, it was funny seeing the first reception to the skills being along the lines of "this is so bad", "stupid conditionals people wont bother to apply" and other negative reviews, then the IDs went live and the opinion did a complete 180, never before had we seen so much power applied so easily.
I commend PM for trying to make things fun, but holy crap, they didnt playtest them nearly enough, play 2 MDs with random teams, any team, and you will immediatly notice how absolutely OP they are, either in Bleed or raw power.
I ran Ring Sang, Ring Outis, Kk Ryo, Hook Hong, N Faust and KK Gregor and it works fairly well, it isn't as centered around the ring ids being able to spam their reuse but it is a fairly viable garden of thorns team
"What negative impact does he have on the game"
Well I wanted to save up for ID X but now with how strong HE is apparently I have to buy the ID now because that's where all the power is if I want to have any chance against boss Z that's giving me trouble. I wanted Rodian Liu but fuck it, guess I'm getting the bleed boy instead.
I usually run The Rings, Phil-Clair for the AOE burn stacks, N Faust, And Kurokumo Ryoshu and Gregor (Torn between him and Hong Lu).
I haven’t even tried to use that whole fusion gift thing with them and they are still so goddamn busted
Can't believe you forgot to mention the absolute best synergy with the ring, sunshower heathcliff who has sinking count, rupture, fragile AND paralysis
Imma just admit, I like the ring IDs for their appearance. Admittedly I do find them fun to use too despite how crazy they are.
Though I’m in the boat that nerfing him now would be a tall order, and extremely risky because of the nature of the gacha game. From what I could remember if they nerfed him it would’ve been like putting water on an electrical fire.
But on the other hand, I agree with esgoo. The fact two IDs needed changes after getting out of the kitchen does raise concerns, especially for the future with power creep.
You can kinda see the animation of reuse better with manual coin.
Theres aditional dot explosions
I just made a team of Ring sang, N faust, W Ryoshu, Kimssault, Deci Rodion (probably gonna change her for captain Ishmael when I get her), and Ninclair.
Which due to all the lust affinity and ring outis’ passive + liu gregor & faust passives make Ninclair gain sanity faster than he can lose it so he can be used non-stop with no fear of corrosion. And besides kim, all of them have a 4 coin skill.
devs need more time to test these units, had Dawnclair's SP only tested with full help and now this
still a top 5 burn id, and its not even close
Gambled on his banner for the bit got ring sang and he changed my team forever
Rcliff with rupture, fragile, bleed: my time to shine
Finally, someone uses the the peak Dawnclair use.