A Kind of Magic: Investiture 101
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- Опубліковано 23 тра 2018
- Confused about the different magic systems in the Cosmere? Can't keep the five Elantris magics straight? Here's a discussion on the differences and categorizations of everything we've seen so far!
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Books referenced: Mistborn, Elantris, Emperor's Soul, Warbreaker, White Sand, The Stormlight Archive
Huge thanks to Botanicaxu for the gorgeous art of Selish Investiture and Kaladin. Check out more art here: / botanicaxu
The Blue Shifting was a great help in discussion terminology for this video, so take a look at his channel here: • "Letters from the Cosm...
Also, thanks to Jonathan Percy for the beautiful White Sand picture. More of his photos can be seen here: unsplash.com/@jonathan_percy
If you're interested, here's a link to the full chart seen in the video: bit.ly/2ksgge1 - Розваги
Whaaaaat! Sanderson fandom explanation videos? Subscribed.
Thanks!
Man I can't believe I never caught that lightweaving's reliance on revealing truths instead of swearing oaths connects it to Cultivation. There's always another secret
Always. Another. Secret.
Indeed.
That "Sharted" took me by surprise. l laughed way too much at that 0:07
They often do that.
Wow, you've got more knowledge of the cosmere than I expected.
Thanks! I certainly do try.
Been binging your videos on the Cosmere. SOOOOO good. Thanks for putting in all the time and work to make great videos. Learning a lot and getting even more excited for the next Stormlight Archive book.
Thanks! I should be getting another video out fairly soon!
Dude! Your content is so good! Pretty much everything in you video is a spoiler though, as so much of Brandon's books are the process of discovering how the magic system works. For those of us who have read everything but don't have the time to pour over 17th shard, your videos are perfect!!
Thank you! You're right that my videos can be kind of spoilery for world building stuff, but I try to about story spoilers as much as possible.
Dude, great explanation and use of charts. Please continue, I love The Cosmere!
Thanks! I should have my next video out by the end of the week!
Really nice vid. Keep the good work! I hope more ppl from the fandom start coming here
Thanks! The more people who find worth out of these videos, the happier I'll be.
You seem very Invested in this channel.
I see what you did there... (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
this channel is amazing. Don`t know how it isn't much more famous
I need to post more...
@@TheCosmerenaut please, do it. Maybe open a patreon or something in case you need some motivation hehe
Tempting...
Subscribed. I'm just dipping my toes in Cosmere, only read the stormlight archive books, mistborn trilogy and I'm halfway through wax and wayne books at the minute but it's still awesome to hear about greater Cosmere. Video about worldhoppers and Hoid with any popular or personal theories next maybe?
Thanks for subscribing! I'm definitely planning both a Hoid video and a known worldhoppers video in the future.
Excellent chart!
Thank you! I put a link in the description if you want to get a better look at it.
After just finishing everything(so far) in The Cosmere this makes a hell of a lot more sense. Love how it's all based on realistic ideas
Oh yeah. It's all coming together.
Killing it with these videos man. Just hoping the other systems on cell start popping up. Elantra has been kind of a rough start.
Thank you! I'm looking forward to when we finally get an Elantris sequel.
Awakening: It's worth noting that only certain Commands will work, no matter how clear your mental picture. Per Vivenna trying to get her rope to hold at some point but it only working when she said, "Hold when Thrown."
Will you be discussing the Aviar, or how people interact with the Investiture on Threnody without actually controlling it?
That's a great point, thanks!
I think I'll start with the Investiture on First of the Sun and Threnody, seeing as how they don't have a specific Shard associated with them, so it would be a good segue from general investiture to specific shardic applications.
Yaas! Good video, looking forward to the next one ^_^
Thanks! I should have my next one out later today!
Need an updated video including the latest Stormlight and Dawnshard. I think there is more since 2018. You didn't mention anything about the planet(forget the name) from Sixth of the Dusk either. Pretty sure there's a shard if not one there in the past. (though I want to know who the "visitors"are guessing we know them from another book just in their future).
Yeah, we learned a lot of info in Dawnshard. I totally should do an update.
Spoilers for all Cosmere books
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Considering the reason Spren exist is because there is so much FREE investiture on Roshar----from Honour's "shattering?"/"killing?"/"Splintering?"----why isn't there similar Spren like creatures on Sel from the Dor? Why is the Dor (which has double the amount of shard splintered investiture)
Odium specifically trapped their powers in the Cognitive Realm, which combined create the Dor. The mechanisms of investiture access on Sel don't really allow for investiture to spontaneously gain sentience, as the only way for it to come to the physical realm is by human action. The investiture on Roshar isn't so restricted.
Also, I'm pretty sure spren existed on Roshar prior to Honor being Splintered, so the process of their creation was already established.
There is a similar thing to spren on Sel: Seons. But we don't know how they're made, only that they're haven't been new ones in a good long time.
This channel is underrated. Good show. Thank you. +1 new subs.
Thanks!
What is this??? I'm so glad this popped up on my feed. Great delivery and explanations.
It's a video I made just for you!
Feruchemy seems to be the true Preservation power. You only get out exactly what you put into it. The power equation comes out perfectly to being X = X.
The funny thing for me about allowmancy is that you gain access to it through Preservation but seems to get a power boost via Ruin. You put in 1 unit of power and get 10 in return or so from destruction of the source material. This is especially clear when compounding in Allowmancy. Store one day of health and get back 10 basically when burning the gold you stored it in.
The Metallic Arts are set up with the Shardic intent reflecting what happens to the natural investiture of the user, not the material key. The investiture comes from Preservation with Allomancy, so the user's investiture is preserved. Feruchemy both drains and refills a person's natural investiture, and Hemalurgy must destroy in order to be used.
@@TheCosmerenaut And what exactly is "Preservered" when you burn a Feruchemically charged metal so you get more out than stored?
It just seems like a weird classification of how these powers are to me.
I was waiting for you to bust out into song.
🎶 One dream, one soul, one prize, one goal! 🎶
I wouldnt consider the scadrial medallions to be end-positive because they are mostly just a new application of feruchemy that allows one person to store an attribute and another to draw from it, making it similar in a way to awakening
That's true, although we don't know the process used to create them so it's still a bit up in the air for me.
Super late to this vid but what about investiture that was on Roshar naturally before the shards came? This is what the Parshendi used prior to the 3 shard invasion and what powered the storm before the stormfathers influence. Would be cool to theorize more about this as it's the only situation we know of magic outside of adonalisium or at least outside of direct influence from a shard.
It's not really investiture outside Adonalsium, because Roshar was specifically created BY Adonalsium. But I agree that magic predating the shattering is really interesting. That's why I'm looking forward to the eventual Dragonsteel novels so much!
Also the Jesker Mysteries and the Nightwatcher.
I'm not sure if the Jesker Mysteries are anything more than just a religion; there wasn't really any interaction with investiture that we've seen. And we just don't know enough about the Old Magic of the Nightwatcher for me to have much to include. I'm excited to learn more about those eventually!
PROTIP on how to score on first date: memorize this video
Sounds like it actually worked!
I watch this video like every 3 months and still amazes me :v
Thanks! I'm glad it still holds up!
Man, you have the best UA-cam channel on Earth
Though, one thing, w what is investiture actually?
I am new to all this, I have read all the mistborn till bands of mourning, and nowadays reading oathbringer, based on these book's knowledge, can you help me?
In the Cosmere, investiture is another basic building block of existence, like matter and energy. In our universe, it's possible to convert between matter and energy (that's what e=mc² means: energy equals mass times the speed of light squared), and in the Cosmere there's another variable for investiture.
Does that make sense? It's not matter, it's not energy, it's something new and different.
Surgebinding! Followed by Allomancy, Feruchemy and Hemalurgy.
You got it dude. Coming down the pipeline now.
Soulcasting stick to fire 10/10! (Also, I assume you caught this, but back in 2014, Brandon released a deleted interlude from Stick POV: www.brandonsanderson.com/words-of-radiance-deleted-interlude-stick/)
Oh yeah, that's the stuff.
I've been wondering, is the spark of life still connected to shards, or is only innate investiture connected to shards? In addition, what about background investiture?
That's an excellent question. I'm not sure! We need to get you on the discord!
Where does the power of the Shards themselves fit on this list? Reshaping humans like Rashek did when he took the power, or causing tsunamis, moving planets around. Is that it's own magic system or just 'raw investiture'?
That's plugging right in to the power grid.
@@TheCosmerenaut so in other words there's basically no fundamental limits on what investiture can do? All of the systems we see are like 'rationing systems' that artificially limit a raw power of creation and destruction?
Technically, though that's like saying there's nothing energy can't power or matter can't build - true, but also a vast oversimplification. In the Cosmere, investiture is literally a third state along with matter and energy, and can be converted between the two similarly. So getting access to raw investiture is going to let you do incredible things. Does that make sense?
I agree with others on the feedback on the music, a little odd style choice, and too loud. Also I feel like a few things in this video are overedited, like you felt like you should put in a joke for every other word you said. That is totally fine if that is your style and what you want to do, just a thought that maybe finding a better balance would help ya out. Loved the video otherwise, tons of helpful information and the folks over at 17th shard discord will love this one!
Yeah, I'll be avoiding background music from now on. I knew as I was editing it that I was probably going overboard with the visuals and stuff; I just wanted to keep the pace up through all the information. I'll definitely tone it back in the future. Thanks!
Wait, what about the sickness based magic on the first planet in Roshar's solar system (a.k.a. The Tranquil Halls)
That one isn't canon yet, so I didn't include it.
I've only just finished Mistborn era1 books and I haven't read the others yet. Will I be spoiled if I watch this video?
No, you should be fine! Anything particularly spoilery I warn you (there's one mention about Elantris that you might want to jump over), but other than that there's no story spoilers here. :)
@@TheCosmerenaut thank you! I can watch it peacefully now ^^
What about the old magic on Roshar? Does that not count as a magic system?
To those that have not read it, it is a 'Monkey Paw' type magic system.
EDIT: SPOILERS AHEAD.
There is an entity known as the Nightwatcher that will grant a boon but with a price. You can ask her for a particular boon, and she may refuse but if she does grant the boon she sets the price.
Examples include:
A man asked for cloth he could sell to provide for his family. His vision was turned upside down, but he got used to it.
A man asked for relief from some of his past emotional pains. Every memory of his wife was removed from him, to the point that if someone said her name the name would slip from his mind.
A man asked for capacity and empathy. Some days he has capacity (he is a genius) and some days he has empathy, but never both at once.
First off, DUDE! SPOILERS!
Secondly, we're not yet sure how the Old Magic on Roshar works, or how it utilizes investiture. It seems like there would have to be some sort or Spiritweb tweaking going on, but we just don't know any specifics. If I had to guess, I'd call it End Neutral though, just because of the opposite Boon/Curse mechanic.
Very informative! I say surgebinding first....but I'm a little biased. 😉
Thank you! Considering the size of the fanbase familiar with surgebinding, it would be a good idea to do it sooner, rather than later. I'll keep that in mind!
I think the Devotion aspect of the Dor has more to do with the Selish Investiture systems tending to have religious associations.
That's totally possible! Cool insight!
We still don't know what Voidbinding is...
WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT VOIDBINDING IS!!!
The individual user of Dakhor gains energy however.
True, just like the individual recipient of hemalurgy gains energy, but there's a net loss of energy in Dakhor use due to the human price required to practice it.
That is questionable. The practitioners of Dakhor can operate under normal conditions without human sacrifices. And is there a principal difference between human sacrifice and draining sand in terms of investiture?
Hemalurgy decays independent of use. We have seen this only with Threnodian shadows.
We don't yet know how one becomes initiated in Dakhor, but the general consensus on the 17th Shard is that it requires some form of human sacrifice or domination, which energy begins the process of the bone warping characteristic of Dakhor monks. Because of the high concentration of investiture that is a human soul, more energy is consumed in the access of Dakhor magics than is actually used in the magic itself, making it end negative.
Well, I don't dispute the fact that it gains energy from human sacrifice. But I think you got the accounting wrong. To the user the energy comes from outside. Whether you drain a sphere for stormlight or sacrifice a human being, to the practioner the difference is ethical, but not arcane. He uses an external source of investiture, which is not retained. The sacrifice is merely fuel and not part of the action. The investiture comes from external source. The investment in a human being comes from procreation. Parents don't lose investiture due to reproducing.
But in hemalurgy the spike itself loses investiture in the transfer. If you surgebind for healing, you use external fuel. If you awaken, you can take back the breaths.
If you transfer something by hemalurgy, you can take it away again, but it will be diminished.
Or NOT transforming a stick into fire!
Yeah, she has a hard time with that.
Great video and humor. the music was a little too loud
Thanks! It's weird, the music or sound effects or whatever always sounds fine when I'm editing, but then after uploading it's too loud. Something I need to work out I guess.
Oh I have a question: Who are you on 17th shard.
You can find me on the Forum as ReadAndFindOut
I really need a more detailed explanation of the intent
For sure. It's a pretty important concept, so I'll definitely be making a video exploring how intent works in each magic system.
What about old magic?
We've learned a lot more about the Old Magic since I made this video. Probably should do a follow up.
What about hoid
I'm planning a Hoid video after I finish up all the magic systems. Stay tuned!
Good video as usual, but I did want to touch on a few things.
The music that plays in the background from 0:48 to 6:08 doesn't really fit the style of video. Personally I would recommend against background music, and if you really wish to put it in, I would definitely have it just a few db lower than it was in this video.
Also when the chart came on screen at 1:16, I was very triggered by the Source column being unaligned.
Finally, I think I see an error in the video at 7:49, as I'm pretty sure we've never see that happen in any of the Stormlight Archive books. As far as we know at the moment, it's very well impossible :P.
Thanks for the feedback! I was wary about putting in the background music, but initially I felt it would help keep the momentum of the video going through all of the info-dumping. Mistake made, and now learned from. :)
The chart, I knew, was going to be annoying, but that was the only way I could fit everything while keeping it big enough to still see.
Haha, the stick thing is purely theoretical!
As long as we're focusing on the theoretical ;).
I think that music can work with your videos, but it has to be a few db lower, and run the full length of the section, as this music just kinda stopped half way though the list section. I think trying new things is a good thing! And you had the right idea! Just needs some tweaking :).
Either way, keep it up!
we saw Jasnah soulcasting a full blown person into fire, also a lot of her own letters. Why would it be impossible to do the same to a stick?
Some transformations are easier to achieve than others. Jasnah explained this in the Way of Kings, near the end of the book
Nalthis
Warbreaker?
@@TheCosmerenaut yes sir. Awakening needs to be categorized as well. Who knows maybe Vashar/Zahel can wake up all the Alethi king statues with Commands to fight the Thunderclasts.
@@TheCosmerenaut yes it needs to be included.
I thought I did include it (at 6:17), though perhaps not in enough depth.
Adolnasium sharted
And now we have to deal with the cleanup.
FEA-RO-KE-ME
I'M WORKING ON IT.
I am a stick.
But you could be fire!
Is anyone else bothered by how he said fero-chemy?
Huh, usually it's the RAFO that get's me. My default is Ray-fo, because that's how I've read it for years.
666 likes.
🤘🤘🤘
what am I watching
Fundamentally: a youtube video.