This Machine Powered the Roman Empire!
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- Опубліковано 23 лис 2023
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In this video I explore the ancient origin of the treadmill by recreating the treadwheel, a source of powering various devices by humans since antiquity.
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I'm seeing a lot of comments talking about how we should have built it larger so we could stand under the axle. To clarify, having the axle at shoulder length is accurate, to both historical imagery and professionally done recreations. It is hard to translate the size of this wheel through the video, but Andy wasn't kidding when he said it could have actually injured us badly, the weight of the wood alone was over 1000 Lbs.
Things like this are definitely scary... and if the examples all have the center bar at that height, there is probably a reason....
Was there no way to have an axle on each side so to speak so as to have free space in the middle?
Thinking about the project further, a higher gear ratio coming out of the wheel would improve things dramatically, both for speed of hammering and other projects, it would also provide some resistance against the walking so as to prevent the wheel moving to fast
I would consider making at least hand holds on the inside of the wheel from an outside jacket to hold onto. That way when you are walking you aren't trying to grab at a moving square but something stationary yet attached
Was there any consideration for doing the external walking wheel instead of the internal?
Also might be a good idea to add some padding around the axil for safety.
For safety, I would add some sort of netting to avoid being able to stick your arms past the wheel itself. There were a few times you guys went to grab onto the supports but almost missed. Getting an arm caught between the crosses and supports will 100% break it.
But also, you need a braking system. A lever a 2nd person could slowly pull to push a block of wood against the wheel to slow it down and stop it for the person inside. Perhaps make it to where it can also lock so you can get in and out without it spinning
Not only will it break an arm, it'll take it off. At my own 15th birthday, my best friend lost a finger by the leverage of a door (a cheap, light indoor bedroom door) and the door frame.
@@horisontialsame principal as scissors, or _shears..!_ ahhhh!
This is all I could see when they were grabbing for the sides. They’ve built an arm guillotine.
For the auto hammer I have 2 suggestions if you want to use it. First is to make it a double or triple hit per rotation given the speed of the wheel using either pullies as gearing, or by changing the shape of the cam to be a double lobe design. The second is to use a much heavier hammer with a longer handle so that you'll have a harder hit so that it'll be more useful.
Stole my Idea
There's a video on UA-cam, by someone called Chateau Du Clos Luce, that shows a brief animation of Leonardo's hammer design. It uses a bent shaft with a fulcrum that looks like it would be a decent improvement.
I think that if you put a bigger load on it (something that needs a high torque), the problem of the bar being in the way wont matter as much because the person will automatically walk to the front to a steeper part of the wheel to create the needed torque
exactly that. and with lower weight you just gotta make smaller steps
Yeah, that torque would also help with efficiency, I think. If the person is further forward, their tread will automatically become one more efficient for going uphill, which will also be more efficient for moving the wheel.
Came to the comments to say this, haha.
You could avoid needing the axle entirely if you sat the human wheel on 2 sets of smaller wheels beneath it and draw the rotational energy from those which also acts as a gearbox. If you were worried about the wheels slipping you could even add teath and turn the whole thing into a giant gear. Obviously can add more sources of friction and therefore make it harder to turn but you can stand in the dead center of it.
@@GoldMike_ True, but as soon as there's any real load on the treadmill, you'll be walking forward of center anyways, so there's not really much benefit to building it that way unless you just want to use the treadmill for exercise. The walking alone isn't really what generates the force to turn the wheel under load; your body weight does most of the work simply by being in front of the axis of rotation. The closer you are to the axis, the less leverage you're able to exert on the wheel, so when more leverage is required to turn the wheel, walking in the middle becomes impossible, or at the very least painfully slow and inefficient.
A few possible suggestions for the design: if you round the center of the axle and polish it, you could allow the person inside to lean against it in relative safety; it would likely be a good idea to make sure the axles are well lubricated (starting with beeswax and moving on to other lubricating agents you have available would be a good idea), and you could possibly even protect the axle or the axle frame using some sheets of polished copper to act as a buffer.
Alternatively, just make like it's the 1500s and utilize the children - they get a place to run all their energy out, and you get some degree of power from it!
Dr Stones Vaccuumpump, can this youtuber or any of his fans tell me about it? I felel like i have bad grasp on it. Same for the Waterwheel
Have a look at the videos on how they built Guedelon castle in France where they used only medieval tools and techniques. They used a treadmill as a crane for lifting masonry. The BBC had a series called secrets of the castle
At Guedelon the treads are angled to act more like stairs.
This has a double effect of creating more torque at low speed, while moving the operator forward of the axle.
the quality of your projects has really improved recently. this looks like something that could be placed in guedelon castle and would fit in perfectly
I guarantee that was a direct inspiration.
The gopro moving with the treadwheel did a great job replicating the dizziness you're feeling when you're on the wheel... That completely broke my brain.
Hilarious how it went from torturous labour instrument to "fitness fun' almost overnight. 👍😆
It's not fitness fun. It's still tortuous labor, just that people are subjecting themselves to that willingly nowadays >:P
@@LordDragox412 Sure, but did you see how happy those women in the photo were? Just seconds after the prisoner pics.
Hilarious contrast! 😅
And here we have the invention of psychology
@@custos3249 The psychology of marketing. 😎
@@LordDragox412you've clearly never met a runner.
I think you need to look at using gears to multiply the force because right now the wheel spins too freely and generates very little useful motion. Maybe a small gear using the outside of the wheel for sprogs instead of the central beam will spin faster while central beam gives more torque due to leverage from the distance to the wheel.
For the nausea, might help if you create slots between the slats though these would need wooden grates to see through yet walk on.
I was thinking that, or somehow hang something in front of the person to focus on (VR headset? Head mounted phone?), or glasses with blinders just for the wheel.
Historically, blind people were hired to run on the tread wheel.
A handy tip when walking in it: To avoid becoming dizzy, focus on a stationary object outside the wheel, rather than looking at the wheel itself.
12:49
Dr Stones Vaccuumpump, can this youtuber or any of his fans tell me about it? I felel like i have bad grasp on it.
Same for the Waterwheel
I was going to suggest seeing if adding a half board width gap between walking boards would help with that, say 1"-2" gap if using 2x4s
At Guedelon castle (experimental archeology build site, France), the treads are angled to act more like stairs.
This has a double effect of creating more torque at low speed, while moving the operator forward of the axle.
I think a lot of the problems you're experiencing can be solved by
A. making someone else go in it, offloading the discomfort
B. make kids use it because of the bar at your chest height
And in the next episode we will be diving into slavery and child labour
Or get a goat.
Whoa I never thought about the fact that "treadmill" has the word mill in it. For a reason
I bloody love this guys videos, if not for the actual designs, but the unique perspective it gives me on the old world.
Put a loose sleeve over the central beam that slides loosely over the beam as it rotates (like a bearing housing) and gives you something to hold on to as you walk in the wheel.
There's this one castle project in Framce, where they actually built a whole crane to lift up the stones. It looks quite similar, only the walkway has like 1/2- 1 inch spacing between the boards, maybe so you can look through it and focus on something through them to not get dizzy, maybe to save weight
Castle Guedelon..thanks for the reminder. I bet they've gotten a lot done in the last couple years.
@@crowznest438I think they’re wrapping up no? I was told it was due to finish this year.
There will be a lot of interior work to do, I think. Such an interesting project, like building a tall ship by hand.@@ThomasFFoolery8383
For those interested in it, there actually a gargantuan version of this that was created for the castle being built in France using entirely medieval methods. It was featured in the series Secrets of the Castle and used to move stone as an early form of crane (as mentioned in this one.) There was also a water powered grain mill that illustrated further the difficulty in actually building them.
Please consider making a sort of rope-netting "platform" hanging by rope from two circular cuts in the wood like the ones for the axle, so the human can rest their chest onto the netting, and maybe even hang on it waiting for the treadwheel to stop spinning. That way, it will be less difficult to stay on it (because the center axle won't be in the way anymore), and it would be safer if you can't keep up with it.
2 suggestions: friction break for safety and bicycle for fun.
I love seeing the progression of technology and your own skills. Its so awesome
I would suggest lubricating the axel with rendered beef or pork fat, .also cross pins in the axel will keep the wheel from "walking" side to side. I also suggest some leather or wooden washers to hold the lubricating fat in place. Interesting project though.
Very creative and well executed!
Love this video the building montages are sooo well done!
When constructing castles and cathedrals they'd put the hamster wheels at the top to help haul the heavy stones up, and then they'd get blind people to run them because they didn't get vertigo or nauseous.
awesome build! If you added grooves on the axle, you could add a handle that slides around as you walk allowing you to hold on and kinesthetically sense where the axle is and thus allow you to close your eyes and avoid much of that nausea feeling. the better answer being that the axle should be 8 feet above the walking surface, allowing full walking clearance, but this does make for a very large wheel.
It needs one thing to make it comfy. You know the walking supports that elderly use? The four legged ones? Put wheels on that. Then you can support your weight on it and walk up the wheel with it, you may even run as long as the walking support doesnt stray off the path
This is fascinating and fun to watch .
Just read your note sbout accuracy .
You show how nuch we have lost and how much things have changed .
Realy fun .thankyou .
That looks scary as hell if you trip and your arm stick out it for sure breaks on the side bar.
Can’t wait for the pyramid building video 😂 gotta make that the minnesotan bass pro shop landmark
The trick is to put so much load onto the system, that it stops when you are standing forward of the axle and only moves when you walk up the slope. The trebuchet picture shows a nice design; its inner surface is a ladder, which allows you to "climb" inside with your hands and feet, giving you more stability.
Round and smooth the axle so you would be able to lean against it and keep your footing.
Another thing is you don’t necessarily need to have the axle all the way through. Add another layer to the cross boards and supports should give it enough strength to stand without the axle going through the middle. Think of it like a wagon wheel, they have no external support on the axle on the outer side of the wheel. Split the axle in half and round off a majority of it. Double up the thickness of the support post and pin the axle on either side to prevent lateral movement. Do the same at the wheel end of the axle. Repeat on the other side and you won’t need the shaft to go completely across. This will make it much easier to walk on since you won’t be hunched over trying to avoid the axle attempting to clock you in the back of the head from the 4 corners.
As previously stated even just rounding the axle completely in the middle where you stand and making it nice and smooth and maybe polish it with something so you can rest your shoulders against it would make a massive difference in your ability and comfort when using it.
Sure the height might be period correct but average human height back then for males was 5’7 not 6 foot plus.
Also make a stop for it to get on and off the thing.
I think it's possible to remove the main axle from the inside of the wheel, and replace it with what's basically a fixed bar for holding onto, to make it much safer. without a good support, if the "worker" gets ahead of the centre, they'll reach for a support to stop themselves falling, and that's basically asking for a broken (or worse) arm as it gets closer to the supports.
as the load increases on it, you'll have to work harder, so it'll be more difficult to get "ahead" of the load.
another thing, if you can make some type of spring, either some type of coiled steel, or leather, or something like that, you can increase the hammering blow. you can also increase the ratio, so it gets more rotations per second, which will increase the load on the wheel, but it won't be by much.
It is so cool ! I think that the one they made at the Guedelon castle has got a brake that is controled by someone outside the wheel... I think you should get that...
what i would suggest is to either round the whole axle and add a second hollow piece of wood over it. almost like a tube. it can have handles to hold onto (person being in the back of the axle) or just make the tube square and the handle not moving around the axle freely.i mean doing this isn't really that important but for easier balancing and maybe higher speeds why not
A spinning wood on wood bearing like that would have a lot of friction, if it grabs then the handle could hit the operator and be dangerous
well i guess its gonna have to be non moving. i thought of making the whole axle not spin and just the tips spin by putting some bearings over them. like on the part of the square thats fixed to the wheel. i mean yea it might be a bit difficult to do that since the axel would kinda still be free spinning but you can fix it in place with something like making a hole in one or both of the ends and putting a long piece of wood or metal through it that gets hammered into the ground. sometimes i overthink stuff and this might be one of those times.
2 Improvements to this setup:
Notch-blocks like Mountain climber nubs, this gives you something to step up onto on the climb to push down with your weight ; but also allows you to hold the central beam and push them further back while still going forward and not running backwards.
Also, Pulley attachment on the belt-wheel. If the belt pulled to an equal dimension Circle the wheel has, off of the Wheel side. Have it have a center holding beam on legs too, but also beam can be used as a small cog spinning with the larger diameter. Connect the WHEEL belt to the Small cog of this new Pully belt attachment, and the large attached to the Hammer cam.
Awesome! Pro tip for next time- just cut the 15 degree angle first, then you already have one 15 degree cut on your next board, also you can end up saving a little board length that way. You would only have to make about 1/3 the number of cuts. Cheers
Dr Stones Vaccuumpump, can this youtuber or any of his fans tell me about it? I feel like i have bad grasp on it. Same for the Waterwheel
Time team (BBC archeology show) said once that treadwheels cranes were powere by blind people because they were not prone to getting dizzy. Removing every second plank would also let you see through the wheel and reduce it's weight.
10:52 strangely makes me wish I was on a treadmill.
The center axel really is not needed of the short axels are solid
You could use the tread wheel as a sort of fly wheel if you put weight along the inside edges and put handles to pull it downwards on the outside, running inside it seems a bit tough lol. Also you could put a harmless on the inside hanging from the cross beam to keep you from falling
Excellent editing.
this is why water powered mills often were build beside a river that has been modified to create a bit of a pond, and a steeper incline for flow near the wheel.
Excellent joinery!
At Guédelon they use a treadmill like this.
this power hammer cam wheel needs another hook. instantly double hit frequency for free-ish.
Needs 3 or 4 cams. The size of a human wheel means you have immense torque, and normally for a triphammer would gear it either triangularly or with a cross shape.
I'd put a crossbar on a rotating mount on the axle so you'd got something to lean on. Adjustable, of course. And you can put your drink on it, so you don't have to stop to hydrate. Another one is to make it big enough that you're under the axle rather than in front of it.
I’m sure you’ve already seen it but this reminds me a lot of the treadmill Crain demonstrated in Tom Scott’s video from a year ago. The point of the videos are very different but you might be able to use some of the same things they explain to help troubleshoot your difficulties
Did lauren left? Man she was a charming and fun person have around.
ah thank you, this made me smile. I got a full time job so I havent had the time to help out anymore- but I really miss it!
You could probably create a harness that revolves around the center beam to help with stability while running.
Props for doing some solid timberframing. Don't even want to imagine the budget for all the cut nails y'all used, they're not cheap!
Probably one of the nicest builds you guys have ever done. Good work!
11:10 loved the camera angle
If the wheel causes dizziness, I'd suggest using a cog system to be able to a) produce more work with each step, but, specially, make it harder to move, so it doesn't go too fast.
Also, grabbing the beams for support looked like a big no-no. Maybe a smaller wheel with handles on those beams would make it easier for you to maintain your equilibrium while at the same time being able to use your hands to push as well.
in the future, for flatbelts, use convex rounded pulleys without flanges. on a pulley with flanges, the belt will have a tendency to climb up the flanges, but with a convex rounded pulley, the belt tends to climb up the round towards the center. this is why when you see stationary engines hooked up with flat belts, the pulleys always seem flat with no flanges, and it seems confusing how the belt can stay on them, but their pulleys are actually slightly convexly rounded to keep the belts on
In Germany, they used dog driven wheels back then, you can see a functioning model in some museum. They were used to empower butter processing machines for example.
1) round off the centre of the axel so it doesn't mess up your back when you hit it
2) put load on so you have to lean into it more
3) harness the power of a couple of kids instead of one adult
With that GoPro shot where it spins with the wheel, you could composite that with footage of the scenery being "still" while you seemingly defy gravity
You should add a handle bar that attaches to the two A frames that hold it up.
You might be able to make a cover for the axle and a “bed” for the hamster to rest against so it’s only their legs that move.
Great video dude!
used to have wheels like this in my local park. Didn't have axle in middle but rollers underneath supporting the wheel. got good enough I could run the wheel while every one else got dizzy or sick. trick is run with eyes closed at constant speed. hope this helps. love your vids keep up the great content
So the medieval versions seen on trebuchets (I got to power one at Warwick castle, UK). Have open spaces between the slats so you can see the horizon when moving.
I know it would be difficult, but I think it might work better to make it so it is supported on one side only so that you can have a stationary handle sticking in from the other side to hold on to. Then the axle wouldn't be in the way either. I know it wouldn't be historically accurate, but it might be safer and more useful.
I thought of a design that uses a U shaped handle that you attach to the middle axis beam, so its more comfortable for use
To create even less friction in the pivot joint, i think an oily wood would help. I know this is partly the reason Lignum Vitae was used as submarine bearings, but that's a very expensive wood
Dutch windmills used it too
I like how hours of work gets distilled into a brief 15 minute YT video
months
Yowza
This seems like something that would knock your head off, after someone calls your name and you turn your head too much toward the spokes
I wonder how a ratchet mechanism to prevent it rotating backwards would affect the experience of using it?
You’d need a heavy duty one or it might break itself if there’s enough momentum. The wheel would be a giant flywheel storing that energy
Cutting off the corners off the wheel will make the wheel lighter inturn making it easier to turn and if you use a diamond shape for the axle holes you low the contact area even more
Interesting and reminds me of the undershot water wheels that were installed on like barges and tethered to the shore line of canals or rivers. These would be used as prime movers in Europe and I believe finding years back info on use in channels and rivers in the Colonial east coast of the U.S.. I came across when researching the hydro methods and collecting waste in rivers since seemed like an interesting power station or prime mover for like the conveyer belts to pickup trash. Possibly other uses in rivers like mining or other irrigation with like spiral tubes or other wheels to lift the water.
That looks rough being so small diameter and that center axle shaft in the way like noted. Otherwise, looks awesome and I can only imagine the range of mechanical devices used to erect or make things. Guessing there are YT videos detailing the range of cranes and related excavating and other equipment. Looking forward to seeing your designs and apps. Thanks for sharing and have a good one!
Cool device and thanks for the video, but please move it more to the centre so that you don't pinch your fingers off. It looks really tight in the video.
The center bar seems like a real headache, but I'm hoping it'll become less of a problem once the torque of the wheel faces resistance so you can walk further up the wheel
The timer in the corner makes me _so much more_ willing to sit through an ad.
Another method is a walking beam, basicly a teeter totter where a person, or group, walks back and forth on a pivoting plank, resulting in something like a saw blade being moved up and down. Put the log on a slight slope so it gets fed into the saw and you have a very slow lumbermill, but better than being the guy working from underneath in a pit when sawing by hand.
nice
Maybe you can use a slack strap or a belt across your chest to lean forward against, holding you back against the axle so you dont fall forward. The axle would have to be nice and round tho to not snag and get tight tho. With a nice groove in the axle for each side of the belt to ride on it should also stabilize you sideways a litle bit as well.
All I could think about was someone slipping and getting their leg caught between the supports and it snapping their leg like it was stick.
There were saftey tolerances built into it
Just a heads up, a good idea would probably be wearing a helmet while in the wheel. That axel at head height is just asking for a concussion.
Can you put something on the axis that spinns? Like a tube so one can hold on to that while going forward?
Be nice at the start of each video to have a little reminder of the progress so far, what tools you've unlocked to be able to build what you're currently building, and where we are on a historic timeline
You missed the Turn Spit dogs by about 100 years. If I remember correctly Queen Victoria kept some as pets after they were retired because of using chimney heat became the driver of the spit though I could be off by a little.
it is still a very applicable prototype if you add huge ball bearings on the sides
The twist in the drive belt is drivin' me nuts.
I think you need a gearbox to get more rotations out of it, depending on your application. Changes to the whole drive train, really.
Making the center of the axle round and smooth, with a possible sheath to hold on to, or lean back against, might improve walking in it.
Otherwise, this could be the cardio that's easier on the back, that also gets your logs cut to planks while ya do it.
Awesome build bro! I think the hammer would work better with a much larger weight. Reasoning being: treadmil craine can lift a lot of weight, but the hammer reciprocation is dependent on the snail gear. I see you tried to use a large/small gear to increase its speed, but if you get more work done per swing, then it might work out better
Could you round the center beam and put a cloth sleeve on it, so that you can grab on to it while the Wheel is Spinning?
If you don't want to increase the size of the wheel for safety and historical reasons, could you make the center axle free-spinning and graspable without sacrificing structural stability? That way y'all could grab it and turn it into a stabilizer instead of a hazard?
The center support should have been more of a T shape on each outer wall bracing against the existing circle so that it doesn't run all the way through the center. Like a T shape with the long part being the part that connects to the support stand.
Would it be possible to rig up some sort of harness to the center axel. Would need to round off an attachment point so it won't spin with the wheel. Then hook into it and just use leg power.
get a heavier sledge because you're are not using the full potential of the wheel with that small one. it's basically a gravity driver which means the heavier the hammer the more force it will impart to the metal. Also the center of the wheel could be rounded if anything just to make it a little more comfortable to the user. you COULD even remove the center wheel entirely if you connected both sides from the outside but then you'd have to redo most of the design.
I imagine having a larger spacing between the floor boards might allow you to focus on the stationary world behind the wheel.
Some of the tools you guys use look amazing, will there be a video giving some more background on that?
try a metal mesh floor so that you can still focus on the horizon
I would say the only change i would make is making the center bar a circle or even putting a circular free spinning thing over the center that way you can hold on to it while running forward. It will give you something to hold onto as well as something to focus on that is stationary.
The hamster costume - 11/10. Excellent.
Dr Stones Vaccuumpump, can this youtuber or
his fans tell me about it? I feel like i have bad grasp on it. Same for the Waterwheel
It's shown on the trebuchet pictures you had but doing a wheel with cross bars instead of a flat walking surface allows it to be used similar to climbing a ladder that would alleviate the center axle just be hard on your back.
It would be cool to see experimenting with the wheel connected to the power hammer with a drive belt (maybe leather?) to increase the turn ratio.
Great video. 😊 All that work for one video. I hope you use it in several more. If only you could make the center shaft thinner or even non-existent. I wonder if there are examples of that in history. 😊
For your legs, the ones holding up the wheel, use two planks with a notch cut out and match those notches up with a set of notches on the legs. It will keep the base from slowly spreading apart from vibratio. Also put a pin on the end of the wheel axle to keep it from sliding out.
A bit of lube on the axle wouldnt hurt
Dr Stones Vaccuumpump, can this youtuber or any of his fans tell me about it? I feel like i have bad grasp on it. Same for the Waterwheel
@@slevinchannel7589 ???
sorry I just figured out the name of the joint, a half lap joint,
@@slevinchannel7589 I'm afraid not. There may be some interesting bits in it, but it is not a topic I am interested in discussing.
@@AdmiralStoicRum How can you know its so uninteresting when you havent watched it and all you know about it is me calling it a 'Science Anime' and at 'some point' it has a 'Vaccuumpump'?
@@slevinchannel7589 I am not interested in discussing it.