WalkSnail vs HDZero, FPV Penetration & Mountain Range Tests! Amazing until it wasn’t.. Lost quad DJI
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- In this episode we fly WalkSnail up "The Gantlet Trail" to see how it performs & if it can survive!
I'm a little nervous about this test as I'm really starting to like the system and don't want to lose the quad! Ultimately I'd love to take WalkSnail out for some Mountain Surfing, and really enjoy this crispy image.
We're using my newest Quad Helical antenna setup "The Copper Crown" and will be running both WalkSnail & HDZero up the trail to see how they compare. Two Way Re-Broadcast System vs a Simple Transmit Only System with static breakup.
* At some point I need to get a DJI FPV system to test, if you wanna "Donate to the Cause" everything helps! "Buy Me a Coffee": www.buymeacoffee.com/nhNDRzf2sx
Please Like, Comment, & Subscribe if you enjoy these videos, I appreciate the community support!
------- Video Notes --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- This is NOT an "Image Comparison" test. These tests were run at different times of day, with different lighting conditions
- I tested different ELRS settings, as this trail is difficult for the Transmitter as well...:
• The HDZero test has ELRS set to 500hz @100mW
• The WalkSnail test has ELRS set to 250hz @100mW
• A lot of variables... and it's hard to see since the OSD both freeze... but just something to note if you are curious.
------- Summary of Video: Copper Crown High Gain Antenna -----------------
0:00 - What are we testing?!
0:26 - Firmwares
0:38 - The Gantlet Trail
0:52 - Concern with WalkSnail
1:30 - Start the Test!
2:10 - Test Replay and Review
2:30 - Mountain Surfing!
3:08 - Oh Nooo!! What to do now?
3:48 - "Static Breakup" Examples
4:03 - Bummer, but Amazing Image!
4:30 - "Search & Rescue" Preview
----------- VTX / VRX Antennas and Quad Setup --------------------------------------
- Frame: DemonRC 5" Freestyle Quad with
- VTX: Full Size WalkSnail VTX
- VTX Antenna: Twin iFlight Albatross Long Antennas
- VRX: Fatshark WalkSnail VRX on HDZero Goggles
- VRX Antennas: Quad 7-Turn Helical Antennas
- FPV Camera: WalkSnail Micro
- Flight Controller: Mamba F722 MKIII
- ESC: Mamba F50 4-in-1
- Motors: Xing 2306 2450kv motors
- Props: HQ Props 5"
- GPS Module: TBS M8-2
- Control Link RX: ELRS Matek Diversity with RadioMaster T-Style antennas
- Buzzer: ViFly Finder 2
_____ Other Quad Setups _________________________________________
- iFlight Chimera 7", with Emax ECOII 2807 1500kv/1300kv motors, HDZero Freestyle VTX
- iFlight Megabee v1 3" with WalkSnail Avatar 1s VTX
- FlyWoo Firefly Baby Nano with HDZero Whoop Lite 1s VTX
- DemonRC 5" Freestyle Quad with Xing 2306 2450kv motors
- ELRS on all quads now, previously CrossFire
- FRSky Taranis X9D Plus TX with BetaFPV ELRS 500mW TX Module
- RadioMaster Zorro with ELRS
- DIY Helicals, search my channel about how great those are!
- TrueRC X2-Air Antennas, Singularity, TBS Triumph Pro, VAS antenna Tests Soon!
- DIY Li-Ion packs using Molicel Batteries, also amazing, check out my video for reference!
#Walksnail #HDzero #DJI #fpv #fpvdrone #dronevideo #gopro #dvr #norway #longrange #DIY #Testing - Навчання та стиль
You need to setup the failsafe to initiate the gps rescue. That way you don’t have to use the gps rescue switch, it will automatically switch on when you failsafe
The problem is losing video isn’t necessarily a FailSafe. But, full disclosure: This was a random 5” quad I grabbed for some basic testing and I never really intended to fly into the mountains with it… It had GPS but I hadn’t tested GPS Rescue in over a year.
My proper long-range quads all have GPS rescue setup as Failsafe, and it’s save me a couple times in the past.
Appreciate you watching and sharing feedback, stay tuned for PartII, cheers!
Update: I reviewed the telemetry logs and found that I had good ELRS signal for about 3 seconds after I lost video.
I tried to punch out and regain video like with analog or HDZero, but the smartest move with WS/DJI is just to hit GPS Rescue immediately because they can take time to reconnect.
In this particular case I think the quad actually crashed before GPS Rescue was initiated.
@@GiantAntCowboy interesting. I guess would be cool to have gps rescue auto trigger when you loose video too
@@asotelles yea, that would be a great feature, I’ve been thinking about that for a while now.
@GiantAntCowboy is that an option in BF?
Dang that looked like a ton of fun til it wasn't! Hope you found your quad up there! I'll be watching for the next video.
Oh man, it was a ton of fun! I’ve never flown a lightweight 5” in the mountains. My normal setup is a heavy (1700g) 7” quad with smooth rates.
I was smiling for sure, then “hmmm… uh oh”. Can’t wait to share the search & rescue footage. Cheers bud!
Excellent video again. Hope you’ll find your quad back!
Thank you, appreciate the comment. Stay tuned for the Part II - Search & Rescue episode because it was quite a fun adventure! Cheers!
Here from Reddit. Can't wait to watch you find it!!!
Hey, thanks for finding the channel. Working on last minute edits now, cheers!
Awesome video.
Sorry for the loss of your quad.
Keep on living your dreams.
Regards from South Africa.
Hey thanks, appreciate it bud!
Ooooo can't wait to see the next episode!
Yea it was an adventure for sure! Appreciate the comment, cheers!
Your content is always amazing 😎 this is the fear I always have with walksnail and DJI where u feel so confident! I always say analog and hd zero give a better feel of how the RF environment really is and they recover quickly
Yea, always felt the same. With analog or HDZero you instantly know there’s a problem and make the correction. DJI/WalkSnail try to fix the problem before letting you know. Generally a stutter, freeze, then blank screen. This might only be a second, but a second at 80kph (50mph) is 22m (73ft), so if you’re flying close things it’ll be over before you even know it!
I just recently started testing DJI O3, excellent image, unbelievable performance, but I’ll probably lose my quad soon… gotta be super careful.
Appreciate the comment and support!
As always, awesome video and great story!
Thanks man, I think you’ll really like the “Search & Rescue” episode… was a great hike in the mountains.
Yes, can't wait to see that. Love when you say to the person on the phone "oh you thought I was dead...?"@@GiantAntCowboy
@@lukemichelin3451 haha! Yea, classic wife, assuming I had died. Was doing this hike alone, not ideal but you’re too far away to come with me… so it’s your fault. Haha!
great content as usual!
Thank you, I’ll be posting the “Search & Rescue” part on Friday. Quite the adventure that was.. cheers!
Another great video! Thanks!!
Thanks, appreciate the comment, part II coming soon, cheers!
Bloody hell, next part looks like it’s going to be a rollercoaster!
Oh it’s a doozy. Great time, perfect excuse to get in a solid adventure hike!
Sucks you lost it but I am excited to see the search and rescue video!
Yea, “all in the name of science…” haha! The search & rescue mission was awesome, great excuse to go out and get some exercise! Appreciate the comment, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboydid you got It back ? Four days means no radio signal and not even a buzzer beacon, do you got a final gps coordinates from control link telemetry ?
Excellent comparison..theres no arguing results. It is what it is.
Yea, always variables. For example Output power, resolution, & Bitrate. I set both to 1W and used the modes I generally used, but maybe there’s better settings.
Is what it is though as you said. Thanks for watching and commenting, stay tuned for Part II Search & Rescue, cheers!
lol dude that ending Epic!
Thanks man, it was an epic adventure! I’ll try to finish editing and post it later this week, cheers!
That was great!
Awesome, thanks for the comment, stay tuned for PartII - Search & Rescue, cheers!
great video! perfect example for me to show people why i switched from dji to hdzero 😂
Glad to hear your enjoying HDZero. There are of course pros & cons, and it all depends on your use case! Most people aren’t doing “high risk flights” like this, so for them WS/DJI is generally a great choice! Appreciate the comment, cheers!
Awesome video buddy!
Thanks, went a little too far,.. you liking your new WalkSnail setup?
@@GiantAntCowboy haven't got time to test it on a wing yet, and it's very windy unfortunately. Hope to try soon 😎
Analog for the win 🙂
Truth. The hobby has become too much about image quality, the analog days were pure fun!
Thanks for watching. Also I’ve always enjoyed your content, I refer people to your Helical DIY all the time. Keep up the good fight, cheers!
Analogue for me to,no hd for me ever.
@@M-H433 I will say that HDZero performs almost the same as analog but with better image. Negatives are cost and you need four antennas… but I transitioned from analog and never looked back.
In this video here: ua-cam.com/video/CYphV5FPbYc/v-deo.html
We test a diy antenna setup and I talked about & demonstrate how the system performs. You might find it interesting. But analog is perfectly usable and fun! Cheers!
Hope you find your quad again😬 Drone Search & Rescue are real adventures. Friends of mine are impressed what I've already done to save mine😂
Thanks, it’s all part of the fun and excitement, perfect excuse for an adventure! Cheers!
Earned a sub with this one. I'm interested to see the rescue attempt.
Excellent, love to hear that! This channel is a passion project, I don’t post that often because it takes me forever to film & edit… so I appreciate the support from folks. Definitely stay tuned, the search & rescue mission was awesome, cheers!
Congrats, another great video 🏆👏. Can´t wait to see your rescue episode 🤩. Do you have an idea why rescue did't work ? I test it always before I send it on long range and it saved my quads 3 times so far ... Best greetings and stay healthy (especially in these mountains 😉).
Thanks, always an adventure! I don’t know why GPS rescue failed, BUT to be honest, this was a random 5” quad I grabbed for testing and never intended to fly it in the mountains. It had GPS rescue setup at one point, but I hadn’t actually tested it in over a year… so it might not have even been working.
Always worth checking, my proper long-range quads have GPS rescue setup and tested often for sure! Cheers bud!
@@GiantAntCowboy oh yeah ... sometimes you are in a hurry and then the sh.. happens 🫣. The main thing is you get your quad back ✊.
Awesome test with great details, thanks but sorry for your lost DJI quad 😒got the vrx also, and the new goggles x are on their way to me, need that penetration for my nature flights, we also got a lot of woods around here, go with betaflight 4.5 RC2, the gps rescue has saved my quads many times when I loose video 😉👍
Yea, the mountains are unforgiving. I did a search & rescue attempt up there, not sure if you saw that video, but it was crazy. Lol.
I’ve since modified the GPS rescue on all my quads to automatically switch to Angle mode and climb first, then activate GPS Rescue.
In this case I lost video but still had my Control Link for a couple seconds, I think it actually crashed before it FailSafed… idk.
But yes, GPS rescue has saved me a few times over the years.
Learning the hard way, thats sometimes how it is with FPV, but most of the times a lot of great youtubes like yours 😎👍
Yea, this was actually the first quad I lost “mountain surfing” in four years. But I was being reckless… “Stupid Games, Stupid Prizes”
Guess I'm exactly the same, but if we don't try, we will never learn 😉 but I would say awesome prizes with the awesome nature experiences you get on your flights 😎👍
Nice test 👍 Currently I am also using HDZero and WS. However with WS i have the problem that the whole image gets blurry if i fly fast and super low. And with the blurry Image I am -for example - unable to see a single stick sticking out of a field and then crash into it.
Does your WS also get blurry?
Yes, in fact check out my Part 1 & 2 videos about WalkSnail, they show my honest feedback, and attempts to improve the performance:
Part 1: “Surprisingly Bad?”
ua-cam.com/video/iZ6SxkdBjXg/v-deo.html
Part 2: “Better Penetration?”:
ua-cam.com/video/94-5ZBbv8DY/v-deo.html
I think they shows exactly what you’re taking about. I was loving the image in these last flights… but still prefer HDZ.
Thanks for watching, “Search & Rescue” video coming soon, cheers!
Awesome video. Fun to watch. I wonder why gps rescue failed :(
Thanks man, honestly I never really intended on flying mountains with this quad & hadn’t check if it’s GPS rescue even worked in probably a year…
This was a surprise adventure, was having too much fun, got lost in the nice image… and bloop.
But made for a good search & rescue mission. Gonna try to finish this week. Appreciate the comment, cheers!
Nice video dude, Fatsnail surprised me too. But those freeze frames are an immediate deal breaker for me personally. I hope you find your quad. But that's the downfall of these retransmission systems. They lure you into a false sense of confidence. And then immediately they rip it away.
Bingo. Was super jazzed that the video didn’t cut out during the Gantlet Test! But yea, at one point latency said 1600ms, which is 1.6 second delay, that’s aggressive haha!
But that video image was looking really nice in the mountain surfing section, so nice I got distracted and made a miserable mistake… turned out to be an awesome hike though, excited to share that video later this week.
(Also I’ll be testing the HDZ V2 VTX and 90fps camera for the first time tomorrow! Excited!)
@@GiantAntCowboy Great video. I love your edits.
Would love to see the difference the 1080P, 720P60 and 540P60 make to the gauntlet.
I've seen a couple of videos where people don't seem to show much better penetration for 540P60 but then they were flying spots where it goes from 100% picture to rainbow as they go behind a big obstacle. The gauntlet is a much more progressive torture test and I feel much better representation of my type of flying.
@P-Bee thanks, I try to edit these videos well. And definitely a comparison between the modes will be coming soon. I’ve been testing the new Freestyle V2 VTX with the 90fps camera, so I’ll be able to compare VTXs and modes! So stay tuned, I’ll try to around that around quick, but free time is never abundant for me… cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy Looking forward to it. However, family trumps fellow nerds on the internet. Get your priorities right. :)
@@P-Bee oh yea, I have plenty of family time. That’s why I only post like 1 video a month.. haha
Looking forward to the recovery mission.
Thanks, I’ll try to get it posted later this week. Just gotta finish editing. Cheers!
I think I saw in your last video you were using the WS vrtx, in these tests in the beginning, were you using the oem antennas? or did you manage to connect your helical antennas to them?
also doesnt GPS rescue on failsafe only apply to RX and not video?
Yea in a previous video (ua-cam.com/video/94-5ZBbv8DYI/v-deo.html) I modified the WS VRX to have 4 SMA connectors so I could use the antennas I have, and do some direct comparisons to HDZero.
To your question: I’m using four 7-Turn Helical antennas on both systems in this video.
Regarding GPS rescue, it only activates when the TX (ELRS in this case) Failsafes’. I reviewed the telemetry logs and my control link was still sending data for 2-3 seconds after I lost video. From what I know/see, I punched out, but never got video back. I did eventually hit GPS rescue but not really sure what happened after that…
Check out my “search & rescue” video if you haven’t already, it was quite the adventure getting up there!
“Search & Rescue Mission”:
ua-cam.com/video/YQD-qH4giyE/v-deo.html
Nice comparison. I haven't done any long range, but I find myself using the two systems the other way around. If I'm flying tight proximity and penetration isn't an issue, hdzero 540p90 is my go-to. When I want to fly a bit further with a lot of buildings or trees in the way, walksnail. Hdzero is the king of confidence, hands down, but walksnail has actually surprised me. I haven't tried anything other than the latest firmware, but the video feed feels silky smooth. A better experience than with my older dji setup
Thanks. Yea, HDZero “keeps things honest”, it shows all the imperfections in the signal received. DJI/WS do a great job “hiding the truth” as they cover up these imperfections.
In most situations hiding the imperfections is great & provides a excellent image. But in “high risk environments” having the raw truth about RF signal, & with no delay, is much safer.
A Frozen Screen or Black Screen for even half a second at 80kph (50mph) is 10m (30ft), during my Gantlet test WS had a 1.6sec delay… that would be 33m (110ft) at 80kph. Death in the mountains for sure.
I looked at the telemetry logs from my mountain crash here and saw that I had Control Link data for 2-3 seconds after the video dropped.
So I just don’t have the same confidence with DJI/WS in the mountains as I do with HDZero/Analog.
@GiantAntCowboy that's exactly why I only fly around areas without people. The biggest problem I've had with dji is losing transmission in a hard crash, and the video not coming back. I haven't had walksnail long enough to experience that, but that has never happened with hdzero or analog. Definitely causing trust issues in a non retrieval environment
Absolutely, for me that’s the main downside of DJI/WS, but it’s also the main benefit of the system.
If a system has to bind to function it can also un-bind and stop functioning.
HDZero/Analog are just like old FM radio, just turn it on and it’s there, might have static sometimes, but it’s always there.
@@GiantAntCowboy at least we have several options and competitors. As long as a company has someone to compete against, they will be forced to improve on their system to stay relevant.
Great video! I’m excited for the recovery. I’ve heard HDZero has best penetration in 540/30 or 60, would be interested to see the comparison.
Thanks, I actually just got the New V2 VTX from Carl with the 90fps camera that does 540p60 “high penetration mode”. I’ll be testing all modes through the gantlet and we’ll see if there is a significant difference.
That will be interesting for sure, appreciate the comment, stay tuned, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboylooking forward to the testing results! Your videos are a great way of comparing my results to know how my gear should be performing.
Yea that is one of the reasons I try to give so much detail, it’s always nice having “baseline comparisons” when you working with your one gear and setups!
@@GiantAntCowboyawesome can’t wait was about to comment as well on the 540p 60 lol
Hey appreciate the comment. The results of that test will be super interesting. Definitely stay tuned, cheers!
In my experience, Walksnail absolutely beats analog and HDZero in short range penetration, but it gets weird at longer range. It's almost like the retransmission aspect quits working at a certain point, and all the advantages fall off.
Hopefully you get that quad back, and it would be cool to see what the internal DVR or action cam (if you flew one) has. Always very interesting to see how return to home screws up.
As for my long range flight, I'm sorta waiting to see if those rumors about basic telemetry output via ELRS Backpack come to be. It would mean I can jump into antenna trackers for cheap! Get the insane gain with perfect aim!
Hey man, good insights. I think you’re correct about range and performance. I’m assuming at a certain point it doesn’t get enough good data and starts to struggle to make anything useful, first adding latency as it tries, then smearing, freezing, and eventually disconnecting…
Still a great system for most pilots honestly and it’ll be interesting to see how it advances with time.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and definitely stay tuned for the Part II, what an adventure! Cheers!
Better believe I'm waiting for it. You have yet to show me a bad video!
@@jaysonrees738 i put 110% into these video. 😄
Really good observation. I wonder when flying long range with high gain antennas, if the transmission from the goggles to the air unit fails first and then the air unit has no idea what to do at that point.
Hard to say unless we can really monitor it. I imagine it probably just loses more packets and the image degrades faster than normal. I know that with enough gain, it'll run well out past 30km without issue, but that's in open air while high in the sky.
I have a 3d printed claw you could get close and use a dji fpv and recover it unless its wedged but beats all the walking
Here’s the Search & Rescue mission if you haven’t seen it. (ua-cam.com/video/YQD-qH4giyE/v-deo.html) I love the idea of the claw in have a DJI FPV now, so maybe I’ll make one, but don’t think it would have been useful in this situation. Impossible LOS, difficult terrain, and extreme wind…
Thanks for watching, appreciate the idea!
The best
Thanks for watching, appreciate the comment, cheers!!
Lol - nice comparison. But... did you ever test those antennas with a VNA or SWR meter to find the center frequency? It would be nice to know that you're transmitting on their center tuned frequency... I'm not saying that it would affect the differences between the two systems, but being off-center certainly hurts your performance at range. Or you could just try all the channels and see what gives the best results - which maybe you already did!
Anyway, nice test - I'm totally jealous of your terrain.
Thanks for checking out the video. Unfortunately I don’t have any proper test equipment, and agree that DIY antennas may not produce the best results.
However I do often fly my 7” HDZero quad out 7km (4miles) with these antennas and have near perfect video feed, so they work pretty well. (Here’s a neat range test of this setup - ua-cam.com/video/CYphV5FPbYc/v-deo.html)
Norway definitely has some incredible landscape, I moved here years ago from the USA and pretty quickly took up FPV…
How does share mode work? I know there are no retransmits so im wondering if you had a second rx in share mode would it pick the transmission back up quickly? Or does the vtx kill the transmission when the link drops?
Not sure how the “share mode” works. I was assuming the Pilot’s goggles were sharing with the second set of goggles. In which case it would only do as good as the Pilot’s goggles.
If it is picking up the VTX that’s interesting, however I think if the VTX loses signal with the Goggles it might go into Standby mode, which is why it’s hard to connect after. (I believe this is what DJI historically did).
These are all great questions, which at the moment I don’t have specific answers to, I’ll try to get some answers.
Appreciate you watching and sharing thoughts, also “Part II Search & Rescue” will be posted on Friday, so stay tuned. Cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy I'm pretty confident that the shared goggles still get the stream from the vtx bc when I've had People watching me I have to tell them which direction to look to get better picture
@@bravo503 oh yea, ok. That’s interesting… and potentially cool. I was just saying last week it would be neat if WalkSnail could have a “Transmit Only” option with a sort of static breakup. The image would suffer, but you could have some unique benefits many of which I mentioned in this video.
You should try to fly using spectator goggles and see what it’s like. Interesting test. Let me know!
did you turn off the low signal alert on walksnail goggle? (red blinking on the sides)
No, it just doesn’t show in the DVR for some reason. There was no warnings during the mountain surfing test, just pushed it too far and poof!
I think I'm going to purchase the Goggles X with WS. This is actually pretty neat considering you can run Analog and HD Zero with the Goggles X. You are going to the extreme (which looks awesome!) and if I do half the flying you do then I should be set. How is the image quality when running WS?
Yea WalkSnail is a great overall system, with great flexibility, image quality is very good, not DJI O3 level, but I haven’t tried their newest 4k moonlight camera which looks on par with DJI.
I’ve been testing DJI O3 recently and can say the signal performance is hands down the best. I’m going to post my DJI test video soon, maybe tomorrow or later this week.
DJI is DJI of course… people seem to hate them. I’d you fly lightweight quads like whoops than WS is the obvious choice between the two.
HDZero is great for feel, but image quality and performance isn’t as good.
@@GiantAntCowboy I’m a newbie and plan to fly the smaller stuff and bigger stuff as well. The impending DJI ban in my country and locked in eco system are big downers for me. To me, it seems like WS is a good in-between that should certainly be fine for the non-mountain surfer like me. I’m just nervous because there are a good bunch who crap on Walksnail and Goggles X and others who praise it
@@williaml6258 yea, WalkSnail is great value, definitely a perfect middle ground. There are always haters, and unfortunately haters are more likely to post that someone who has no issues. Problem with all reviews on the internet…
@@GiantAntCowboy true! UAV Futures spoke highly of it and I think JB didn’t have much to complain about. I will probably just pull the trigger and send it haha. Good talking with you sir, have a great day
@@williaml6258 absolutely, welcome to the club. Cheers!
Do you think that for interior shots, cine whoop like we can se a similar situation? Why people have the idea that hdzero has no penetration? I want to switch to digital and I would love to get hdzero even if it's the most expensive option for me. But I am a bit worried that I will not get the same performance that I could with walksnail inside buildings.
We are all hoping for that successful retreave 🙌.
WS and DJI both perform really well in buildings, arguably better than HDZero actually. This is because they capture and process the signal to create a nice image. Inside buildings the signal will often bounce off walls, Analog and HDZero will show some of these bounced signals as static, where as WS/DJI can capture the bounced signals and fix them to make a nice image. (With some added latency of course)
It’s very unlikely that you’ll be flying really far or fast indoors so DJI/WS will work very well and with very minimal chance of video loss.
I love and support HDZero, but also want to be honest that it’s not the best for every situation. 99% of real estate drone footage (both indoor & outdoor) is shot using DJI equipment.
Hope that’s helpful, thanks for watching and leaving a comment, cheers!
The whole time watching the Video which is great, i was wondering why not O3🤣
O3 i think is dramatically better ❤
O3 is amazing, err from what I’ve seen… haven’t yet flown it. My main system is HDZero, it just works well for my purposes. I got WalkSnail when they had that VRX preorder sale. Cheap enough to try.
To get O3 requires new goggles and of course the VTX, so all of a sudden we’re at $1000! And honestly DJI has the same re-transmission pro & cons.
I just can’t trust these systems for my riskier flights. I need that visual static to tell me how to Aim my antennas and to say “you’re about to screw up!”
Thanks for watching, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts!! Cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy 😁👍just borrow, try it and make Video
O3 is sooooo much better in breakup behavior against Walksnail.
Walksnail is really fast to drop out unexpected🤣
Come for a visit. Problem is I’m in the middle of no where Norway. Only met one other FPV pilot once in real life. Haha!
Though the middle of no where Norway is also why I started this hobby!
Really interested in finding out why GPS rescue didnt work...I hope you will find your quad and investigate the issue
Thanks, to be honest; I never intended on mountain surfing with this quad, and haven’t tested its GPS rescue function in like a year. Not even sure if it was setup…
I did hit the GPS rescue switch, but it may have crashed by then. Definitely stay tuned for the Part II - Search & Rescue episode because it got pretty crazy. Haha!
Thanks for watching, cheers!
Recent reviews from a lot of UA-camrs (JB, Darren Alatt, etc) had me already convinced that Walksnail was the way to go. BUT, is it the right choice for the type of flying we do? This video certainly has me reconsidering the HDZero
Yea, each system has strengths & weaknesses, too much to list here… however I’ve been planning a video to highlight some points often overlooked.
In general though DJI & WS are a great option for most pilots, HDZero however does have some unique advantages.
Quick Summary HDZero:
- Fixed image resolution & latency,
- No Disconnect issues, and
- Static is actually really useful as a visual warning system & for antenna aiming
It all just depends on your uses, for me I just trust HDZero more in high risk situations because the image is “real”, it’s not compressed & manipulated with an algorithm to create artificial performance.
Happy to discuss further, let me know what kind of flying your planing to do, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy still flying analog to this day, primarily freestyle but also fly whoops and mountain surfing and LR (PR on analog is just over 4km), so I had my eyes initially on HDZero for later this year, maybe around Christmas.
Lately comparisons of both WS and HDZ gives WS the win in both range and penetration, but the digital noise/static that HDZero is really useful and could possibly be the deciding factor for me. That and because the WS goggles doesn't take in any input so I can't continue flying analog.
@@ImaginationTech yea, no perfect solution. Which goggles do you have now? Both HDZ & WS have VRXs that work on analog goggles.
4km is no problem for either system. I’ve flown HDZero out 3.5km using only 25mW, but WS certainly is best for extreme long-range.
In terms of penetration, WS never actually impressed me. Often seems worse around trees than HDZ. If you re-watch the test in this video HDZ gets lots of static breakups, but WS completely freezes and at a certain point has 1.6 seconds of delay!
One annoying thing with WS is they use LHCP and RP-SMA connectors/antennas… I’m sure you have a lot of RHCP SMA antennas.
HDZero goggles have more & better features, especially for Analog uses. But WS is supposed to be releasing a new goggle this month that’s “All-in-One”, so we’ll see what that means.
@@GiantAntCowboy can't wait to see what the new WS has to offer.
While I haven't gone really far, it is one of my goals to go further like >10km, and like to do the kind of flying FalconRadFPV does (and now you as well! Subbed!). My HD3 is pretty old, and the HDMI input doesn't seem to be working, so really want to get rid of it. I am hoping the WS v2 goggles will have an option to take in an analog input somehow, if not then that would make choosing even easier.
Now the WS v2 is out, looking forward to knowing your thoughts. The potential to (finally) do HD as well as analog or even HDzero (though with no DVR) is the key for me right now.
Personally I don't think the re-transmission has anything to do with the issue here. I did the exact same thing while mountain surfing a few km out, I dropped behind a ridge and immediately lost both video and radio control (Crossfire). I immediately flicked the GPS rescue switch but with no RX it didn't do any good and it went down. If we are going to blame the re-transmission system only, then the Crossfire signal should not have failsafed. I had the last GPS coordinates still in my goggles and was recording DVR in the goggles so after a two hour hike and scrambling down the gully where the coordinates where and analyzing the footage I actually found my quad. I learned a few things:
1) If there is any risk of needing to go looking for a quad in the mountains, make sure you have some binoculars. I own a few but didn't bring any with me on this trip.
2) For close proximity mountain surfing and gully diving, remove the guard time and have failsafe trigger GPS rescue immediately. I had GPS rescue on but it was set to trigger after the default 1.5 second guard time which by then was too late.
3) Pay a lot of attention to keeping the signal path to the quad clear. When flying a few km out, signal loss for both video and radio link can occur immediately without warning if you drop behind features. I think you've now learnt this one the hard way too.
4) Pink is an awesome color when trying to find a quad amongst rocks. Only the two pink props on my quad faintly caught my eye while I was searching for it. Someone later told me pink stands out more than other bright colors and I'm not certainly going to argue with that after my own ordeal. My quad has 3D printed top plate and Air Unit cage, I've now ordered pink filament for it. Going to dress it up in pretty pink now :-)
Anyhow, I hope your rescue mission was as successful as mine and you safely found it.
Hello, and thanks for the well thought out comment. All great tips, many of which I’ve implemented on my actual long-range quads over the years. For example I 3D print everything in RED, and wrap my giant Li-Ion packs in RED electrical tape. People have told me it doesn’t look cool… haha! But when you’re searching in the forest or mountain thats mostly Green, Gray, and Black; RED (or PINK as you mentioned) are a quad saver!
To be clear, I’m don’t blaming “Re-Transmission” for the lose of video, that was very clearly Pilot error… but re-transmission systems “hold the image together” far too well, (which in most situations is awesome!), where simple “one-way transmission systems” only display what is received. So when LOS is an issue, or there’s environmental noise, or antennas problems, you instantly see static and know you need to adjust. (It feels “more honest”) I included a bunch of examples from prior flights in this video for reference. @3:50 mark
Additionally latency and resolution are fixed which allows for a quicker response time.
I’ve been flying in the mountains for years, first with analog, then eventually HDZero. The two are similar enough that I quickly learned to trust HDZero in these situations.
It’s personal preference, many people fly DJI in the mountains, but that instant video loss is sketchy, additionally the system can “unbind” and need to reconnect if signal is completely lost. Where as analog/HDZero just instantly receive any signal that reaches the antenna.
Last note: this quad was just a random 5” quad for basic testing. I never really intended on flying in the mountains with it… in fact I had not check the GPS rescue functionality in over a year. My Chimera 7 is setup properly and tested regularly.
Anywho… I did bring binoculars with me! Also not my first “search & rescue” mission, though it was the craziest to date! I’ll post the video later this week. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy Sounds like you've done this more than me :) Agree with you about DJI. I fly DJI and have had total loss of video quite a way out where I lost track of where I was. I still had radio control so I was able to fly higher and get the signal back but it took a while. Does sound like HD Zero is the way to go, at least for the time being. Thanks for your input!
Yea, certainly “not my first rodeo”, but definitely my first major fail… I’ve had good luck saving quads in the past. So it was about time I guess.
Every system works, just have to know their limitations. With HDZero the image isn’t as good, but as mentioned it’s got other benefits.
Honestly I’m one of a very small group of people using HDZero for these type of flight. Most “mountain surfers” are using DJI, and most HDZero folks are racing or doing fast freestyle.
But I’ve always felt it was a great system for my sort of risky nature flights.
Always happy to share my experiences, successes and failures with the community.
I wanted to put walksnail pro in my rc car but dont have the money to buy. So just usong backup vista i have for now
Yea seems like the Vista will work fine for your uses. Love driving RC cars with FPV!
As i am using single/multiple walksnail vtx's for my projects. I am pretty sure that if you use 700mW, you will get much better range and less delay. The 1000mW & 1200mW isn’t ready yet. I don’t freaking know that why walksnail even give us the options of the those power that literally don't work!!
Good tips, the feedback I’d like to hear. I used 1W just so it was comparable to HDZero. I also used 720p High Bit Rate, which should have been the best, unless high Bitrate is also questionable.
Not sure. So many options it gets confusing honestly. So thanks for watching, and appreciate you sharing thoughts, cheers!
That’s how retransmission is unfortunately, immediate loss.
I fly Avatar long range sometimes, but am super, super aware of any land getting between me, learned from the first time (single hill) 😜 I did recover it though, it wasn’t too bad.
Even when I lose HDZero, it will be back in literally the next frame, not the minutes with DJI, or seconds with Avatar, literally the next frame. Plus I seem to be able to have a little land between me (but that may be my confidence, and quick recovery), compared to ABSOLUTELY ZERO with every other system 😜 except analog, that does pretty good too, it’s just not too fun flying it (I have pretty severe problems with analog flashes), I just use it when I have to.
Yea, these have always been my suspicions, based on stories from other folks, and why I’ve always used analog or HDZero for high risk flights. At this point I never actually fly analog, no reason to with HDZero.
I do like WalkSnail, I’m fact after the successful “Gantlet Run” I was real excited about it, and then that great looking image while mountain surfing was just awesome!
Unfortunately though since it doesn’t get static break up it’s really hard to determine where these hard limits are… and that sudden blank screen is death in these risky proximity situations!
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts, stay tuned for the search & rescue mission, it’s a good one! Cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboyThe thing is, if you had been getting a low bitrate and/or high latency right before you'd lost it, I would've said "you should've taken that as the warning that you're at the edge of its range" but it was still fine - 20 Mbps and 36ms - so you literally had zero warning... The fact that it totally lost it & remained gone - instead of just stuttering and then coming back when you punch out is pretty crappy.
Yea, poof. People have mentioned that you can just watch the Mbps figure and it’ll tell you how good the signal is… but I can’t stare at a small number at the bottom of the screen while quickly flying past things! Maybe if the number was directly in the middle of the screen, but even so, as you mentioned my Mbps was fine here.
@@GiantAntCowboy the only times I have found “mbps” useful, is if you are 30km away and going through clouds/storm/near city noise
OR
flying around my neighbourhood/building dense industrial property and making a judgment call if I should try to push the signal through the 12th building 😜 it’s honestly not useful otherwise as you can already see and feel the transmission issues.
Maybe you just need to get the hang of it a bit more? It’s quite different, and like everything, just needs to get trained. Frame timing Vs noise basically.
So… judgement calls is the only time I use it, and that itself is pretty rare.
I just go slow when “mapping out” my signal propagation, especially in rough areas. Once mapped out flying slowly, signal is usually much better going fast (if there is a patch that’s bad, you’ll be in and out before you even see issues)
Avatar is great for ranges and situations that I would be barely able to see my HDZero signal, and it sure is a pretty picture… but I generally fly fast and hard freestyle so HDZero is the only system that can keep up with me. Time and a place for everything I guess.
And remember, zero land can be between your signal, as you won’t regain it by punching out like when flying medium range with HDZero. I can’t stress this enough.
Yup all good points. I had done a couple practice runs around this rock pile, Varde, Cairn, whatever you wanna call it. The first two attempts no drop in Mbps or frame issues. Just nice video. The 3rd attempt no drop on Mbps, frame issues, but went too far and …
With HDZero or Analog I would have been getting flashes of static for sure, and would have been much more cautious.
Also aiming antennas with HDZero/Analog is much easier. Turn your head back and forth to where static appears, then back to the middle.
I demonstrate this a few times in my last video:
ua-cam.com/video/CYphV5FPbYc/v-deo.html
Either way, appreciate you sharing, cheers!
Maybe i missed it are you running 1080 or 720p?
This is what really messes with me with walksnail and dji. Because they are kind of similar.
I feel like hdzero give so much "warning", walksnail does sort of but the dropped frames makes me have no idea where my quad is...honestly that nothers me. In a mountain...maybe not much to worry about besides losing the drone. But if theres cars or buildings people...im just gonna disarm.
"kind of similar "? dji...walksnail......all the same protocols with a different label...all the same problems flying with others...no difference whatsoever....consumer type junk for junk consumers..
For WalkSnail I was in 720p mode, figured that would have better penetration performance. For HDZero I was testing the new beta 1080p30 mode which actually has worse performance…
Yea, I love the image quality of WalkSnail/DJI, but trust HDZero more because it doesn’t “sugar coat” things. If you’re signal is bad, you get static. WS/DJI are very good at covering signal issues which is generally great, except in high risk situations.
For most people this doesn’t matter, but most of my flights are pretty high risk, and I can’t afford to lose drones all the time…
Appreciate you checking out the video, and sharing thoughts, cheers!
Ah, so walksnail = exercise 🤠 Have any links to your unicorn copper antenna setup? Looks like a fun project.
Haha, yea, tons of exercise! Haven’t climbed a mountain in a few years. Here’s the “Copper Crown” video:
ua-cam.com/video/CYphV5FPbYc/v-deo.html
Build info and links are in the description. Let me know if you have any questions, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy ah awesome thanks man! Didn't realize you had a video for it! Keep up that exercise :D
@batcavefpv5007 absolutely, check it out and let me if you have an questions. 👍🏼
can you add GPS return to home failsafe?
Yup, absolutely. I thought it was setup, BUT hadn’t actually tested if it worked on this quad in over a year…
On my proper mountain surfing quad I update and test GPS rescue/failsafe often. Smart to test it.
Thanks for watching cheers!
What range were you at when you lost it? 2.9 k?
Only 1.3km away (as the crow flys). This quad was never intended for long-range…
Do you need to set up GPS Rescue on failsafe?
To be honest, I never intended on using this quad for a risky flight like this… and I had not checked if GPS Rescue even worked for over a year.
Lesson to us all, check your GPS rescue periodically.
Thanks for watching, stay tuned for the Search & Rescue episode, that’s was kinda nuts! Haha cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy ahh gotcha. Probably a useless comment on my behalf, as of course you would've set it up if you were planning on something with a lot of risk. We've all made little mistakes, which turn in to epic stories :D Looking foward to episode 2!
Mistakes make the best adventures and stories. Haha
Wow - you have the most epic flying sessions near your property. Did the lagging and dropped frames bother you in the gauntlet?
Yea man, pack up the quads and bring the family for a visit. You might lose a quad, but I promise it’ll be a fun time!
In the moment I was just excited the video was as still sort of visible; albeit blurry and with 1.5 second delay(!) but in the end it came out and it was great!
However… I do personally prefer the consistent latency and resolution, even with heavy static. It just feels more real.
Also, HDZero actually looked better in the comparison, but as I mentioned the lighting was drastically different so not a fair comparison, and not intended to be an image comparison.
Wait! did you found it? 🤨😯
Part II is coming next week, it ended up being quite the adventure! Stay tuned, cheers!
2:20 That there is my issue with when people use Walksnail's reported latency and go "oh but 30ms is still totally flyable": It isn't actually 30ms at all. At this point in the video, Walksnail is stuttering extremely badly, and certainly isn't 30ms latency. There's more than 500ms between each frame by the looks of it...
Also, HDZero's 1080p30 mode is known for not having as good penetration as its other modes... Much better to do this test on the 540p60 high penetration mode or even just the standard 720p60 mode.
For sure. I noticed it said 30ms as well when the screen was barely moving. I assume the OSD elements just get stuck.
Agreed about 1080p30, I actually just got the New Freestyle V2 VTX and a 90fps camera to test, so I’ll be running these “Gantlet” run again in every HDZero mode to see how much difference there is between the modes. So that’ll be interesting, stay tuned. Cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy I look forward to seeing that. Thanks.
Your gps rescue angle may not have been set high enough for those winds.
That is totally possible, it can be crazy windy up there… almost got blown off during my Search & Rescue mission! Haha!
Also worth mentioning, this was a random 5” quad a grabbed for some testing, never really meant to fly in the mountains with it, and I hadn’t even checked if GPS rescue even worked in over a year…
My proper long-range quads have GPS rescue set for FailSafe and I test them periodically.
Appreciate the comment, good suggestion, cheers!
yeah this is where stable mode and punch out can help.. but disconnect is no fun
Yea, I stopped using Angle mode a couple years ago because I felt in a panic situation I was more likely to hit the wrong switch! Lol
I’ve always had luck manually adjusting and punching out, but with analog/HDZero I have more warning signs. Plus I don’t really know how “latent the image” was. In my previous video WS displayed 30ms when the image was skipping freezing and jumping. Haha!
Anyway, this was my exact fear; love the image quality but prefer the consistency and visual warnings Analog/HDZero give.
@@GiantAntCowboy and till this day people laugh when I say hdz for long range smh
@@tubsucks yea, tbh if i was to do a Long-Range Wing I’d actually chose WalkSnail. I saw a test out 50km with great image!
But this is when latency doesn’t matter, and if it disconnects there’s nothing to crash into and the RTH will have no problems.
For “high risk flights” like in the mountains I just trust the consistent and real-time performance of HDZero.
p.s. I think more people are starting to realize there are some other advantages beyond racing for HDZero
Time to build a proper iNav quad.
Yea, this quad was not a “proper long-range” quad… In fact it was a random parts drone that I setup for some basic WalkSnail. That’s said I hadn’t checked or test the GPS rescue in over a year.
My proper mountain surfing quad is a Chimera 7, not running iNav yet though…
Bro stole the thunderhelm from the gerudo!
Wow I had it google that reference! Definitely felt like a Zelda quest at times… haha thanks for watching, cheers!
I wish you had done a truly 1:1 comparison of the two systems. You used 1080/30FPS for HDZ but 720/60FPS for WS. Penetration with 1080p on HDZ is definitely not as good as their 720p and i think the results would skew even more towards HDZ if it was a fair comparison.
Well true, but I had to make it fair for WalkSnail… haha!
Joking aside, I recently got the Freestyle V2 VTX & Nano 90 camera, so I’ll be doing a bunch of runs between the VTXs but also between the various modes. (1080p30, 720p60, 540p60, & 540p90).
So that’ll be interesting. Also I’ll be sharing the “PartII Search & Rescue” video on Friday, stay tuned. Cheers!
Hah! Well good to know the consensus still leans toward HDZ, makes me feel like I made the right choice 😂
Look forward to the recovery video and your future comparisons
@@PixelFPV yea, I’ve been really happy with HDZero. It’s not the obvious choice, and there are times I wish the image was as nice as WS/DJI, however it’s consistent resolution, latency, instant static feedback, ability to share video feed, and it’s overall performance fits my needs/uses very well!
I just can’t trust WS/DJI as much, which I knew and then unfortunately demonstrated… lol
@@GiantAntCowboyI feel you. I'd rather have consistency and reliability with slightly less video quality. It's all a balance act and I doubt any one system can do both perfectly. Having gone from flying only analogue for 8 years, HDZ was still a noticeable upgrade with the video quality and I can see tree scraggle much better then analogue which is about as much as I can ask for quality wise. But who knows, maybe they can improve their 1080p latency issues and that can become the norm. 1080p was unflyable to me and felt way too laggy like flying DJI does.
@@PixelFPV yea, same. Flew analog then HDZero. So static doesn’t bother me, in fact I find it a useful tool, and the increased image quality is very welcome.
I flew the original 1080p30 mode with its stutter for months, and it didn’t bother me much. However there is a new version that was released a couple weeks ago that is much better! Basically no stutter. Still not 720p60 feel, but no stutter. (In my opinion)
It’s actually my preferred mode, then 720p60 for faster freestyle.
I’ve been testing 540p90, but the resolution drop is more noticeable than true FPS gain for me. I fly larger open environments so the benefits are lost.
I’m going to put the camera in a 3” racer frame and do some tighter flying with it, then I think I’ll appreciate the 90fps.
Oooops…!!😱😂
Truth. Good excuse for a hike though! 🏔️
Fuck bro, hope you will find it 😅
Thanks dude! 🤞 Stay tuned for Part II! Cheers!
HDZero 720p have better penetration than the 1080p.
For sure, in fact I was going to re-run the test, but time and weather didn’t cooperate. I will test it again in 720p mode, and also I just got the New Freestyle V2 VTX with a 90fps camera which can do the “540p60 High Penetration Mode” so I’ll test that as well! Stay tuned!
HDzero was worse through the gauntlet. You can't tell me that full screen breakup isn't as bad as lagging.
You’re saying WalkSnail performed better, right? Your second sentence was confusing. (I assume you meant Full Screen breakup IS Worse than Lagging.)
I think that’s kind of personal preference:
- HDZero had full screen break, but the image was moving in real-time with no change in resolution.
- WalkSnail had no break up, but the image was frozen, and quite blurry.
Note: We have to ignore the lighting, as the sunlight was different in each test.
Use express lrs
I use ExpressLRS. In this situation I lost video, but didn’t actually lose my ELRS Control Link until 3 seconds later. (I reviewed the telemetry logs).
My mistake here was punching out and trying to re-gain video like I do with my Analog or HDZero quads.
With DJI/WS you should just immediately hit GPS Rescue and hold your breath because video can some time to reconnect.
Do inav you will never have that problem.
After the fact I reviewed my Transmitter Logs and saw that I didn’t actually lose my Control Link (Failsafe) until 4 seconds after the video dropped.
And actually i think it just crashed… not failsafed. I did flip the RTH Switch, but it was too late.
I’m used to Analog/HDZero where you get some warning, and video comes back quickly. This just dropped to black in one frame and that was that.
I know people mountain surf with DJI/WS, but for me personally there’s not enough signal feedback to push the limits safely. Perfect for a long range wing though!
Inav it. Then it will fly home.
Yea, admittedly I had not checked or tested the BF GPS settings in a long time. Never intended on using this particular quad in the mountains, but one day I found myself here… I’ve since checked and re-setup all my Quads with GPS.
If you haven’t check out the “Search & Rescue” mission give that a watch, pretty great adventure! Appreciate the comment, cheers!
Apple AirTag…
Yea I’ve been meaning to test this. AirTags only work if they come in contact with an Apple Device. So unless a random hiker walks by the lost quad we won’t know the location.
However when searching, it could be helpful, but I watched a couple tests and it seems you’d have to be with 2-3m (10-15ft) realistically before it would work..
Not great but might help, I’ll definitely have to get one & do some testing of my own. Appreciate the comment, cheers!
@@GiantAntCowboy exactly. If you at least get close enough to it, you can find the drone. If you put the AirTag in an enclosed case, you need to pop holes in the case… otherwise, you can’t hear it very well. I just have a mount that goes on the back of my quads. From FPV custom…? Something like that.
Anyways. The tags have helped me. Maybe they could have helped you locate your quad. I honestly watch the follow up video was devastated that you couldn’t find it.
I also put black light reflective tape on parts of my drones so if they go down at sunset, and the tag method fails, I can blast a light(hand held black light or similar at the drone, and it pops up out of nowhere! Even in thick grass.
Even the light on my keychain that I purchased with the tube of superglue (similar to a black light) makes those things light up at night time like they are a little flashlights lol.
The tape method does add ugliness to the drones. However, if you don’t want to lose them, this is actually a pretty decent thought. I don’t think many people have thought about putting fluorescent tape on the bottom plates/arms of their drones. Probably because it doesn’t serve a purpose to the drone, other than adding tackiness and weight.
Thank you for the reply. You are WAY above my level in knowledge and also flight capabilities! Your reply means a lot.
@@babyzeefpv9887 All great ideas! I always use RED tape & TPU mounts to help with finding, but reflective or black light tape is an interesting idea as well!
If I could find a small low cost IR beacon that could be cool too because I have NightVision goggles which would pick up that like from really far away!
I definitely value Function over Form, everyone builds this cool all black stealth looking quads… cool until you can’t find it. Haha
too bad gps-rescue did not work.
Absolutely… I waited with hope for a minute. Full Disclosure: I never intended on using this quad for a flight like this, and hadn’t tested the GPS rescue in probably a year… I did hit the switch, but maybe it just crashed before GPS rescue took over.
Great fun until that point though! Haha
dji king but walksnail developers listening to community and bring awesome stuff every month or so, while (HD0) fans stuck in past and only blaming others for their failure (man if you don't know how to set up GPS Rescue don't fly far)
I have all system and HDZero perform better in nature. WS and DJI have lag and smearring.
I mean not going to argue about DJI. Obviously the best looking, most refined FPV system available.
But for me HDZero feels more trustworthy, it shows exactly what is received as it’s received. Yes it gets static but that’s a sign that your flying into a bad spot.
DJI hides signal imperfections really well, which generally is great, but you in turn don’t get that instant feedback/warning. You just get a perfect image then a frozen/blank screen. If you’re lucky GPS rescue will activate before the quad hits the ledge you flew behind.
Note: This quad was a random 5” quad I setup for some basic testing. I never really intended to fly it into the mountains, and honestly hadn’t checked/tested the GPS rescue settings in probably over a year.
I’ve been flying long-range in the mountains for years, so I’m fully aware of how to setup GPS Rescue for failsafe.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, cheers!
Just depends what you prefer. Some people can’t handle or see through static. They’d rather stare at the last good image the system received for half a second.
It’s all personal preference really.
@@GiantAntCowboy looking forward to your rescue ,just don't kill yourself over a quad.
@@ezalku yea, haha! I had to promise that to my wife… 👍🏼 Great adventure!