Win600 First Look, An All-New Budget?AMD Hand-Held Gaming/EMU PC By ANBERNIC
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
- Correction: I was under the impression this was a 7" display but it turns out it's a 6" display, Being a smaller overall form factor it definitely feels like it's a larger screen.
In this video, we take alook at the all-new WIN600 from Anbernic. They Finally made an X86 handheld that runs Windows and Steam OS! Powered by an AMD Athlon SIlver 3050e with Radeon Vega 3 Graphics and backed by up to 16GB of ram! This is not my review video of the Win600 this is more of a first look, Unboxing, Benchmarks, Gaming, and emulation test video. More videos are coming soon.
Buy the WIn600 Here: win.anbernic.com/
Or Here: anbernic.com?sca_ref=2193181.CeT6UNbFuN
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00:00-Intro
00:15-Unboxing
01:16-Overview
02:50-Specs Win600
04:00-WIn600 Tear down Upgradability
05:04-Windows Performance
05:42-WIn600 Stock TDP
06:50-Benchmarks Win600
07:33-Skyrim Test WIn600
07:52-Halflife 2 Win600
08:17Cyberpunk 2077 Win600
08:33-Dreamcast Emulation And D-Pad Test Win600
09:12-PSP Emulation Test Win600
09:35-Gamecube & Wii Dolphin Emulator WIn600
10:33-PS2 Win600 Emulation Test Win600
10:55-First Impressions
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Correction: I was under the impression this was a 7" display but it turns out it's a 6" display, Being a smaller overall form factor it definitely feels like it's a larger screen. Steam OS Video coming up next but what else do you want to see running on the WIn600?
Black ops 3 zombies
Minecraft or macos
gta 5
You always seem to have a lot of respect for your listeners thanks man
YES
Great insights into the RAM speed. Price is indeed the elephant in the room on this one … looking forward to learning more!
I love this channel thank you for covering all these devices especially the mini pc market I bought two one for music production and one for pure emulation both maxed out and works flawlessly
Love how many of these are coming out. The more the merrier.
the more the more confusing it becomes. does the 279$ loki peform better than the 279$ aya air plus because it can give more power to the gpu as a p core isnt consuming power?
@@shlokshah5379 Either one performs much better than this for less money.. This is certainly not a budget handheld for what u get.
@@shlokshah5379 I mean sure, I'd definitely recommend doing as much research as possible but more competition in the market is only a good thing in my eyes
@@shlokshah5379 I'd say the others are for enthusiasts that want to do the research, the Steam Deck is the all-rounder that most people should aim for
@@amirpourghoureiyan1637 if they're ever back in stock.. lol. I've had a reservation for a while but have been leaning more and more towards just buying something else
Very, very cool case and cosmetic finish. Great review vid 👍. Greatly appreciate your always measuring the device's power use and TDP settings. Kindest regards.
Excited for this device. The x86 handheld market is going to be really full of options and that is awesome to see.
Another awesome video ETA prime you nailed everything that needed to be review on the Anbernic win600. I might get one if the price is under $300. Also I am waiting for my AYN Loki Max which I fully purchased but. Who knows when it's going to shipped out.
I love how much this market is expanding now
Neat. Didn't know this was already coming out.
I feel like this is going to have to come in around the $200 mark to be worth it. Ayn and Aya are dropping some far more powerful Windows handhelds at prices not too much above that.
Knock offs ought to be interesting
@@MetrolinxOfficial they're obliged to lower their price now or else they'll have no business
it's kinda ironic lol knowing that just about year ago anbernic is the standard
I agree.
Anbernic aren't intereted in value. They buy old unwanted parts in bulk for a fraction of the original price, chuck them in these rubbish handhelds and sell them on for 10x what they cost to make. The plastic warps, the batteries bulge, the buttons get stuck, the screens get heat damaged and the thumbsticks drift. Don't waste any money on their trash.
@@talibong9518 Profit margins, nice
These handhelds just keep coming!!
I think it's cool how it at least has upgradability to it despite being in single channel. At least you can install a faster and higher capacity stick
What an amazing time to be alive. With this many devices coming out soon enough we will have handhelds light enough like the switch and strong enough to run some AAA titles
Yeah. It's called a steam deck.
@@big_ry82 pretty sure the steam deck isn't light compared to the switch
@@loustalk8227 light enough. It's a handheld, not a bag of shopping.
Pirating Nintendo games is going to make these types of devices worthwhile.
@@big_ry82 it's about as big as a laptop. You can't even imagine about pocketing it. The loki and air plus are more powerful and the size of the swich lite and weight about the same as a swich.
You brighten my day, Thank you!
Thanks for the video! I’d love to see some Citra footage next. Cheers!
I purchased this today; it should be here by Friday, hopefully. I'll update whenever I recieve it !
Looks good definitely interested
2:50 Just an FYI, though these are 3000 series by name, they're actually based on Zen1 14nm. So this is basically an under clocked Ryzen 3 1200, that has been cut in half, and had some Vega1 graphics cores slapped on the side
I cannot wait for 7nm Mendecino to come in and replace this class of processor
4 cores, 8 threads, all on TSMC 6-7nm instead of GloFo 14nm
it is actually Zen+ and it is more like half of a 2500U. Not like a Ryzen 3 1200 because that was a quad core full-fat Zen design. The APU's have less cache memory, however there are no actual Zen APU's.... as the first gen "Zen" APU's are really more like Zen+. This Athlon 3000 series is a 12nm part so it is fully Zen+.
@@Jimster481 These Athlon CPUs are listed as 14nm on AMDs site, which makes them Zen not Zen+.
@@nathansstuff1547 You can see in the video that it shows up as 12nm.
Like I mentioned originally, by the time the Zen APU's came; they were already Zen+ design. So the only difference between the first gen APU and Zen+ APU is the 12nm which allows for higher clock speeds. The rest of the architecture is basically the same and there were many tests to prove that this is the truth as they both have basically the same performance (within 1%) at the same clockspeed.
It has also been noticed before that AMD has produced some of these chips in 12nm and didn't even bother to update its website. So as it shows 12nm Dali in this video; it might actually be a 12nm Dali chip. Since 14nm is mostly phased out at this point in time and 12nm is what AMD builds their budget stuff with in bulk. This is also the reason for the Ryzen 5 1600AF.
@@Jimster481 I know what it shows up as in software, but these CPUs are based off of Raven Ridge, which were 14nm. I trust the rest of the internet more than one bit of software.
AMD literally announced that Dali was based off of Raven Ridge in early 2020.
@@nathansstuff1547 Like I mentioned before; AMD transitioned its 14nm stuff to 12nm as the two processes are very similar and mostly compatible. They did this back around the time the 1600AF came out. It is very tough to find ANY part on 14nm today as AMD barely mfg's on 14nm and instead moved to 12nm because of a better bulk price w/ GloFo.
As someone who follows lithography and the CPU market quite closely; its likely that the Athlon 3050 chips are also on 12nm now.
Looks so AMAZING ETA!!!!! ANBERNIC is pretty good!
It would be really nice to see someone do an updated video on the Anbernic RG552 with the new Android 11 upgrade to see how it now preforms
Amazing review as always!
It's really nice and portable but if I would to pay $490, I might as well cough up another 60 for Steam Deck with much faster processor, larger screen and more ram.
Great video. I'm just waiting for the price too have a better judgment.
No camera, no micro sd card slot, no hdmi, no analog triggers, single port ram memory slot. The Win600 may be more affordable than we expect guys! I'm greatly considering getting one of these. One thing about both Anbernic and Powkiddy, you won't have to worry about whether you will receive your purchase or having to wait for months or years to get one. They deliver once they release their consoles.
Apparently it will literally cost more, while still missing those features that cheaper options have sooo...
It can do HDMI over USB-C. Still wouldn't waste money on this trash or anything else sold by Anbernic. A tablet plus clip on controller beats any of these handhelds, x86 or ARM.
Honestly if this thing had a sd card slot and dual channel ram I would've considered it depending on the price point. Dual channel would've helped performance a LOT
@@CarbonPanther considering it's a low power device with easily upgradeable components, it's got more going for it than OneX and AYA's stuff. If they price it under the Steam Deck then there should be enough demand to get it down to the $200-250 range people want.
@@amirpourghoureiyan1637 They will prob want $500 dollars or more and SD will still be cheaper with better hardware.
$300 Range for anyone wondering about the price
Your estimate or official statement?
Either way, that sounds not good...
That sounds terrible, ngl.
I remember they used to release small emulator devices, it's nice to see them come up over the years
Great video. thanks for showing us this device. for a "quick look", you really showed how strong the device can be, but I'll be waiting for the longer review, because your videos are awesome.
My opinions about the device: I saw someone say it costs around $300 and if it really is this price range, it can look promising, because for what I know there is no windows handheld capable of running Cyberpunk and ps2/wii emulators in this price range (but if there is, please comment).
Another good point for me is the upgradeable ram and storage as makes the device have a longer life.
And to end the list of good points: The full capable USB-C with video output makes the device very practical, as you can connect an usb hub and have a portable computer for light tasks with a bigger screen if you need and also a portable gaming windows handheld.
I do have a feeling that R2/L2 only being on/off does not change much for me, as my favorite video games are PS2 and SNES, but I understand how awesome would be for this device to have it.
About that analog distribution, it can look strange but if looks as confortable to play as you were holding, I can't see a problem.
For sugestions for things to you talk about(as you said you will make more videos about the device):
1. I saw it have a active cooling system. Would be feasible to test performance before and after changing the thermal paste?By the way, does it uses Thermal paste or a thermal pad?
2. Are the analog clickable?
3. As already was suggested, testing another OS would be great to see and if everything is running ok.
4. How many hours can you game on it? I believe there is difference between play CP2077, Skyrim and PS1, but a rough estimate would be nice to know comparing light and heavy use.
5. Does you know if Anbernic plans to sells accessories for the device? a protective case would be nice to have as it have a touch screen and the device is not a cheap one anyone would like to see scratched.
6. Download speed is good?
6. Games I would like to see: Genshin Impact, Overwatch, Rocket League, The Witcher 3, Batman Arkham City, Resident Evil 2 Remake and Wolfenstein 2 are titles I believe can show the limits of the device, but just for fun you can consider adding a very easy game to run, like Wolfenstein 3D(1992) as a joke.
1~6 hours of battery life consenting the battery is 38 whr. Also Ayn loki mini pro or even the loki mini amd will perform better than this and they both are 280$.
And forget about genshin impact and witcher 3 being playable on this device at all. You might get away with rocket league at 30fps but it's a hard pass.
like the good old days of building your own pc. like it!
Feels like ayn and aya pretty much killed this device before it even launched
Cool review
Thanks for the awesome video. When you do the emulation video, can you please do upscaled PS1 with crt shaders and other enhancements?
For a long time I thought that Anbernic had hit rock bottom with the RG552 due to the bad and unthought-out ergonomics of the handheld (shoulder buttons). But with the Win600, Anbernic has managed to repeat the SAME mistake with the bad ergonomics (using the stick and operating the shoulder buttons at the same time) and as if that wasn't bad enough, in my opinion Anbernic also demands a much too high and very cheeky one Price for the service offered. It almost seems to me as if Anbernic is trying to compensate for their previously unachieved sales and profit targets with each additional product through an even poorer price-performance ratio. And that WITHOUT even paying attention to the most important point of all: THE BUYER 🤷♂️ That the buyer really has a good feeling with the handheld in the end and that especially in relation to a reasonable and fair price. Anbernic has achieved this goal with the RG351 series. Now Anbernic only draws attention to embarrassing actions against Taki Undo. This is a very weak signal from Anbernic. Thanks for the effort 👍
Great competition! I hope the price is not too expensive...
It can get rid of the burn because of the video output, but that analog distribution is very strange.
This is genius from Valve. This is what they wanted. They were never looking to dominate the market with Steam Deck. But they wanted to sell it cheap to get the ball rolling so other companies make similar machines. And sure, this ambernic runs windows... but Valve is hoping to make steamOS so easy to use that most will default to it... and get more people to buy games via steamstore.
Yup, so many other manufacturers are already marketing their devices as being compatible with Steam OS. Valve will never have to bother releasing a Steam Deck 2. They can just let other manufacturers take over and can now rake in those sweet profits from Steam sales. Honestly pretty genius
@@filipjovanovic8138 They might not have to bother, but they definitely will release another one. Gabe already talked about a more premium option likely coming in the future.
Steamos doesn't even need to beat windows
valve loves modders, holo iso is like cs go if ya think about it...
100%. My dream device would a cheap, light, small (smaller than this) Deck alternative to play Steam metroidvanias and indies on the go, with some emulation. I personally have no interest in playing Elden Ring on a handheld, nor to spend $300+ on this kind of device.
Considering the low power compared to my ayn loki max whenever that arrives, i think im going to be really really really happy when it arrives.
So you're willing to wait until 2024?
@@jamesyu5212 I doubt it will be that far pushed back. im willing to risk into 2023 though.
Besides. i live in NZ. No possibility of a steam deck for me
(gabe despite living here, doesn't sell to nz/aus for whatever reason and took something like 4 years to start selling the vive.)
gpd looks too bulky for me, and i already have the gpd 1 and have tested their machines, they typically lock most customization in the bios and are generally poorly optimized or atleast they were.
That really only leaves anbernics, aya and ayns products. personally. (despite gpd being deffinately good.)
Aya also is Extreeeeeeeeeeeemely expensive to import over here, unless going through aliexpress (not trusting it for an expensive product) or amazon (only selling second hand at the moment.) and also has comparable wait times.
ayn's loki max is offered at a similar price point but ever so slightly lower, (least until the other aya products came out in response which i found very.. telling and a bit rushed. they want to champion the market, and have shown around 5-6 different devices all at the same time.)
Plus the mega response to how well the ayn odin preformed and how many people genuinely enjoyed using it, and how well even windows flashed to it, made me trust em a bit more. Aya's products had a general share of complaints, despite being good machines.
Tldr:
Ayn loki is my best shot at a decent machine. Anbernic is deffinately a close second considering how quickly and well they push their devices out, however their aimed a lot lower then other competitors and are priced accordingly.
@@The3dsstuff I don't know. AYN feels like a pyramid scheme to me in that they need the money upfront in pre-orders to built the machine on back orders. I'm just worried they suddenly go bye bye and everyone would have been left with upfront payments. At least with Gpd and anbernic the product is THERE when you buy it.
@@jamesyu5212 I can't disagree with that logic, but then the same could be said about Aya too.
Problem is that these two companies are the only ones willing to truly compete with the deck at the moment rather then filling another niche.
Like gpd has its gaming devices, but it's more aimed at productivity/mini PCs. And it's gaming ones are slower then recent machines.
And anbernic is more for the emulation niche and their doing the same thing Ayn does, only way faster. Anbernic also didn't release practically any info on this device until about a month away from release.
I'm worried ayn could dissapear, or take a very long time. But they've also proven that they make excellent devices. And instead of making endless kickstarters like gpd they've moved in more of an anbernic direction
i love the little plant :)
I'm more curious for the 3020E honestly. If its right at $220ish and can run some of my favorite platformer and indie titles, that would be plenty.
yea now im wondering if its worth getting the 3020 if its not much worse than the 3050 and the price difference might be 50-100 dollars.
exclusive access, nice one ETA
Love the dpad location. Retro all the way.
Really helpful when you showed that ram working. Maybe link exact model?
a suggestion for these systems more on the modest side: Ultra Street Fighter 4 - it has a built-in benchmark on PC and it would give a good impression of how it would run more fighting games from that generation (Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, Guilty Gear Xrd, Injustice1, Mortal Kombat X..)
anyway, great work.. love this channel
Only real miss on this is lack of a SD card slot. Would love to see some more about this handheld
Not to sound narrow-minded but the moment you showed MVC2 running correctly, that sold it for me… lol
I want this for indie gaming console and this is maybe the most accessible handheld pc in my country, the rest are really hard to get.
With the good d-pad this would be an awesome device for Fightcade
As someone who prefers performance over graphics I wish more channels would show specs for running at low and ultra so I can compare if its worth a purchase for me
Looks really interesting! What's the battery life like? The only thing I'm worried about is the ergonomics of the analog sticks.
If this is priced around $200-250, then this would be a perfect device for retro gaming, cloud gaming and maybe VN reading device as well.
if I was planning on dropping $250 I would probably stretch the extra 149 and get a steamdeck knowing it comes from a reputable distribution channel, has high quality components and if anything did go wrong it has good tech support and servicing from valve.
@@Mmmm_tea steam deck too scarce to get, especially on the third world countries. For me, Anbernic's gadget is easier to get from my region.
@@Mmmm_tea I had the 512gb deck, sold it, it's so big and I didn't care for the touchpads. But Steam OS ist very good.
looks well designed, better in the hand than half the handhelds
Its a good design for playing with the dpad while both eta prime and retro game corps said that the thumbsticks are uncomfortable.
Damn.If i wasnt saving up for my ayn loki and waiting for my odin pro as well as my steam deck,i probably wouldve cop this
If it’s cheap enough this will be perfect for Moonlight in home streaming.
I want one for cloud and older games. And native windows on the go. That would be super for me.
Muchas gracias por el vídeo
Thanks for the video :) nice handheld, but with that L3 button so down, it is not so ergonomic and with give thumb problems :(
It's a very interesting little device
gg we made it to one million subscribers babyyyyyy
here we go moves for the scene
I might be in the market for this. Right now I have the RG351 and RG503. I'd prefer black plastic and no front Anbernic logo on the WIN600, but it looks ok otherwise.
Finally one with controls I can get behind, aside from that lack of the analog shoulder buttons. At least it looks better than the RG503. I'm a fairly low spec PC gamer, but it might be weak even by _my_ standards. Emulation wise it seems like an almost perfect device and I'd imagine might even get better performance in Linux, but Windows wise, seems like it'd struggle even with 2D games. but... how much does it cost?
Pirating Nintendo games is going to make these types of devices worthwhile.
Probably around 300$ considering its ambernic. The loki mini pro might be what you are looking for.
i would really like to see you test 2D windows games on these type devices. Hollow Knight, Dead Cells, Aeturna Noctis, etc...
I know most people will want the APU bumped to at least 4/4 Vega 4 but both a comment and request for future video: You should include a bit more PC classics that go back as far as or even further back than Skyrim because there's some really good titles like the Dragon Age games that are past 10 years old and would work without issue on even this very modest 2 core APU. I think most folks realize this partially due to the emulation but there were also many PC games during that PS2 and PS3 era roughly that you wouldn't need to emulate and should work pretty well with this lower end chips.
Steam Deck really kicked handheld pc market in hi-gear. Might pick one of these up just to play older visual novels.
These things were fighting each other before the steam deck and probably had things coming out coming out to be more accessible for people.
@@stevemclovin1566 yeah but the steam deck really shook up the pricing in this market. people don't want to spend 1k+ to enjoy handheld gaming, and im super glad about that.
You can read on it modern VN easily. I preordered the Ayn Loki only to read VN and play jrpg and indies (that are the only type games that I play xD)
So far from these handhelds (which I'm glad so many are emerging) the Steam Deck looks the most comfortable.
AYA NEO AIR?
Steam Deck is a bit too big and chunky for me personally.
Too wide and cluttered on the top for me
And the bigger and not portable
This is more portable than the steam deck definitely buying
This seams pretty cool for cloud gaming
Hey can you please do a new mini ATX build with ryzen chip please! Love your channel
Im not sure single channel but upgradable ram is a good tradeoff vs soldered dual channel
Not when having single channel halves your GPU performance.
I would like to see well optimized PC games running on it. Like the resident evil series, Dmc5, Mgs V, death stranding, dirt, GTA v. And online games it can maybe run CS go, Fortnite and valorant.
They won't really work well. I can tell you from experience that games like CSGO & Fortnite don't run well on older dual cores and Vega3 @ 1000Mhz is quite sluggish.
It is only going to be usable for older platformers and a few other quite old PC games.
Eta prime already did a video on it and half the performance from that video. Csgo will run at 20~30 fps same with fortnite. Forget about gta 5 lol.
@@shlokshah5379 Yea I mean I have an Aya neo and this device will literally have half the performance of the OG Aya Neo.
The Loki Zero is in pre order for $199 with the same specs, so i wonder if anbernic will have a competitive price
There are some significant sacrifices here...but not bad at all. It will absolutely come down to pricing. IMO top speck can't be a dime over $399...if even that much. $200-300 seems like the sweet spot.
Anbernic is so random haha.
Why?
That comment seems random
I hope their cutting corners on the RAM will result in an attractive price. I think this would perfect as a cheaper Steam Deck for playing Steam indies and metroidvanias on the go.
Let’s see some SEGA Model 3 and Teknoparrot emulation. Would be great to see how it performs
Not impressed with the emulation performance. I ordered the aya neo 5825u pro. I hope you get your hands on one soon, would love to see your input
Where you download all your wallpapers? I see some cools in your videos, thanks for answer
Would love to see some multiplayer fps games on the device
Comparing your video to retro game corp, that ram upgrade seems to have made huge difference.
Have you tried running CXBX Reloaded on this Handheld? you could get Jet Set Radio Future Run at Full Speed
Can you try running rogue knight 2, bloodstained, as well as hollow knight on it? Huge fan of the channel btw
Since this is a Windows OS console, would want to see Genshin being run here so its gonna be good with a controller feel. I can assume it would run Low to Medium at its best. GTA V maybe Medium and Elden I can assume on Low.
Gonna pray it be cheap to get since some of the other ones that are coming are more expensive... but Imma wait for more reviews and what-not
I have the Atari VCS which is extremely similar in performance to this (dual-core, Vega 3). There is no way in hell it's running Elden Ring. I have tried. It'll run Dark Souls 3 on low fine though.
@@matthewblackwood9653 Yeah DX12 AAA's want (at least) modern quad-cores to run acceptably, anything below is better suited for indie games and older titles.
If anybody could launch one of these damn things and actually get them to me free 2 day amazon shipping that would be great, yeah. I"ve got like $30 tied up in "early preorders" from Steam and AYN. I kept ordering and cancelling the RP2+ and Odin because the shipping was so ambiguous. Had I kept the Odin preorder from December I likely still wouldn't have it. Finally bought an RP2+ off Amazon the other day because it had 1 day shipping.
I'd love to see this run Manjaro Linux and all the emulation that it can support.
We will see a boom in hand gaming devices after the huge success of the Steam DK
hanheld companies need to understand that colored bezel like switch lite is 10000x better than plain black
Hopefully ambernic cooks up something with Mendocino and keep this formfactor
I don't mind playing with 720p+RSR on this
That would be pretty awesome
@@ETAPRIME yeah handhelds are getting more traction now👏📈
Thx for covering this as always
The fact that ETA actually replied is pretty Damm awesome
You already know what to do, HoloISO
Too bad for the single channel memory configuration, it repeats the mistake that many entry level laptops did, I was seriously hoping that they had some RAM soldered on the board and the stick was just for upgrades, but unfortunately it's not the case.
I wonder if the chip could be upgraded to maybe a ryzen threadripper chip or something like that
Really hope that they upgrade Athlon to Zen 2 in the future with RDNA graphics.
Looks like a neat device, I suppose price and availability will make it break it. Would have really liked to see a Ryzen 3 in this though.
Depends on price.
Time for Lenovo and Asus to jump on the bandwagon too, to press the chip prices down. PC Handhelds have come to stay.
Hows the wifi chip? Wifi 5/6/2.4ghz? Can you show off some cloud gaming next video?
Hello, is there any chance to have a go with some dj software like Traktor Pro3, Virtual DJ and Serato on those units, this small form factor pc could change any DJ controller into very portable DJ system if it can replace laptop and handle low latency audio. All those reviews are always about gaming and emulation, any chance to do it regarding music production?
Same processor (not the e varient) was in my previous laptop. Can handle most game and even breath of the wild and cemu/wii u games. (Also cyberpunk ran like on 15 - 25 fps on low settings
I... really don't know what to make of these specs, it's astronomically slower than even the most basic Core i3 AYN Loki Mini will be, with again even lower efficiency (and therefore battery life), I'm not even sure if this 2020 Athlon is using Zen+ or just regular Zen@12nm, needless to say this chip doesn't hold a candle to any semi modern 7nm chip in any department.
So considering this and AYN's offerings i don't see the Win600 going anywhere if it costs even a fraction over 200$, like if you just wanted a low power mobile game streamer, then do yourself a favor and just get the AYN Odin Lite! Unless you really need an x64 arch? But then just wait for Mendocino Handhelds since you have to wait for both to come out anyways.
Pah, not to mention the lack of analogue triggers, i mean, really Anbernic? Maybe the price will surprise me and i'll eat my words but until then...
The AYN loki zero has dual channeling and has 40WH battery it has amd athlon silver 3050e for $199
Well, the joysticks aren't off centre but they're in the worst place possible.
If it had dual channel ram support I would 100% buy it
This thing make AMD Mendecino handheld look far more worthy for our money because of prices
would be nice to have it on dual channel..