Wow!! I have a new respect for both 1095 & 5160. With all the new super steels out there I sometime get kinda bogged down in all the hype. Thank you for taking the time to make these test. Truly an eye opener. Also thanks for the review. Ken.
a Bad Mojo 5160 and 1095 are both reallt good carbon steels for any size blade. Yes the new so called super steels are good however they still have their down sides "other than cost lol". One of the good things with spring steels like 5160 and 1095. Is they are very reliable and forgiving towards abuse "as this video shows". Added they are alot easier to work and mend/repair than the super steels like nippo as well are much more readily available. Which also means you could get a really high quality blade for alot less money.
I love this kind of video! This addresses some of the questions I've had and that are rarely addressed. Most vids show you about how they make the knives, and of course there are plenty about testing knives from knife reviewers, but most of the time the questions about the steels are really left out.
Thank you! I really appreciate finding videos that actually educates me rather than youtubes usual fare of opinions based on assumptions by the inexperienced.
Great video! I was clenching my teeth when you where bending those blades and almost was in tears when they broke. The price one pays for the love of the craft. thanks.
Friis Forge I just subscribed to your channel too ( you are so invited to my channel too ). Love collecting knives as you will see .... I have a custom Aldo Bowie . I want to double check but I swear it’s 5160 . ( if it isn’t , than it’s something like 4140 )????? I gotta find out . I’ll be in touch soon . ❤️🤠🔪
Hay Rick H, hopefully you see this post. It sounds like the 1095 carbon steel sword isn't very long so at a hardness of 59C it will hold a good edge. My only concern would be it breaking but you would have to really abuse it for it to break. If the maker is doing a differential heat treat then that eliminates the potential breaking problem.
Common tool steels are O1, A1, W1 and D2 just to name a few. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses. Tool steel is more uniform in its composition of elements and its more expensive. If it's in your budget go with tool steel. 1095 is iron with 95% carbon added so it can be hardened during heat treat.
If you were me !! T10 katana with harmon and other fitting 200$ Handmade and 1095 harmon with other fitting 185$ ! Which one would you choose? And which is more durable!! It's really helpful if you can answer this last question!! Thank you sir !
very nice info. I do not have the time to do these tests on the stuff I make so it is nice to have someone like you do these tests and share the results. Thanks for posting.
Very informative. Nice to know the integrity of the steel and how its affected by heat treatment for the hardness level desired. I would like to see tests on most of the popular steels used. For ex like the type Gerber uses vs the type cold steel uses. Tests completed for the 1095 and 5160 which you would see with KaBar and Tops even though there heat treatment may differ...
This is really weird to me. How is possible that 5160 HRC 51-52 broke and 1095 53-54 survived. 5160 have lower hardness which should increase tougness even more over the harder 1095. And 5160 itself should be tougher than 1095. But 5160 broke and harder 1095 sligtly bend but held up. Im totally confused by this. Can you explain to me ?? According to your test the statement that 5160 is tougher than 1095 is completely incorrect ?? Or isn't ???
I think the 5160 was hardened to 57rc while 1095 was hardened to 52-51rc. I think this made a huge difference. The only issue I have with these tests is almost no one sells knives at such a low rc level. Most knives are 57-60rc. It would have been better if he had used real life rc levels to see what each knife can withstand. But like he said he tempered them to spring levels which are typically high 40's low 50's.
@voltsoftruthBSbuster There's also tempered martensite embrittlement from 450-550 range, where it's both softer and weaker. Spring temper should avoid this range. 5160 might have fallen in the to get a comparable hardness?
I love 5160,,but i choose 1095 for utility knives here in Philippines blade makers quench only the edge to avoid break or chip the whole blade i love filipino style for a knife making..
Great, great video, I needed to see this, like you said, the 1095 was spring tempered, and it didn't break, I like my knives tempered a little harder for a better edge retention, I really like the 1095 CroVan better than the plain 1095, with the right temper, and a zero quenching, it's remarkable, I'm looking at getting a O.K.C. Bushcraft Machete, in 5160, what do you think, but my favorite steel, is the 52100, it's very similar to 5160, but has more carbon, so far my Swamp Rat Knives, are my favorite, again, Thanx for a great video, good job, please keep us informed., we need more of your video's.
Newspaper cut test after chopping thru 2x4s. You mentioned targeting a specific area of the blade for the tests and they're all dull where it was used. The paper is being cut by sections of the blade that were not 'tortured'...
+portydert portydert I dragged the newspaper through the two inched area of the blade that was abused. Like I said this was not a scientific torture test.
Very informative video sir. Appreciate your time & efforts to compare these steels. Hats off, I only dream of being able to do the things you are able to create! I like both steels, but I own many more 1095 blades as they are cheaper & more on the market than 5160. I can't find cheaper 5160 steel than what Ontario Knife Company offers, & I think they're heat treat isn't consistent...I've tried to sharpen a few...but anyway, thanks for a great vid! I subscribed!
The only knives still in one piece on the table at the end, are the steel formulations with over .95% carbon content in them. That says a lot. 1095 and 01 are my top 2 favorites!
WOW!? Seems ive been misinformed? I never thought 1095 could flex like that? Ive always heard its hard brittle steel. I own a couple 5160 swords and they have very nice flex. I also own a couple 1095 swords from scorpionswords but have been too afraid to even try to flex test them.
Derek Robbens I’ve seen bend tests on UA-cam and I noticed that some makers are bending blades that are 1/8” thick or even thinner. I’m bending a blade that 3/16” thick. The thicker the blade the more of a chance it will not spring back as much and or break. Something to keep in mind.
It all depends on the heat treat and temper. 1095 will probably be a little tougher but the 5160 will hold a better edge and it will heat treat more evenly. If I were to make one for myself I would lean towards 5160.
Would the 5160 have a good enough edge retention to work as a decent allround carving knife? Like in a puukko style knife? I've heard allot of different oppinions about 5160. And the biggest disadvantage people seem to talk about is the edge retention. And because of this many seem to disregard the other advantages of the steel. I want to get into knifemaking, and havent "started" yet. I know that 5160 is often used in larger blades. But to me it seems like if you would harden 5160 to around 60RC it should have pretty good edge retention but still keep most of the toughness properties without chipping. What's your experience? Since you prefer 5160. Would it work for a smaller (3-5 inch blade) woodworking/bushcraft knife?
Sorry for the delayed response. 5160 is a great all around steel. Easy to sharpen, tough and it heat treats very well. If you want better performance then you would move into tool steels like O1, D2, A2 and W2. But it cost more for the steel.
Ok, thanks! Ive been loking around and one steel that captured my interest was 80crV2 steel. Its bacicaly a sort of high carbon spring steel. I'l keep doing some research. Thank you for your advice!
Thank you very much for this informative video. I suppose I know quite a lot about steels and knives but I have absolutely zero experience with carbon steels because all the fixed blades from my country are 440C stainless variations, even heavy machetes. I bought a lot of folders from USA but not any fixed yet. I'm Spaniard and we have a lot of knifemakers over here but no one works with carbon steels and I think they are the best for chopping .
I've heard there are issues with casting. I would use clean bar-stock and waterjet cut the profile and grind it. Your going to have to grind it anyway.
Nice work & Video. In HS shop class a friend made a small sword out of leaf springs. What is the most economical ways to obtain metal for fabricating a knife, sword, halberd etc..TY
Great vid I surely thought 5160 wld do better than that but I never & wld never buy a knife made from 5160 unless it was $20 or less. I have a bunch of 1095 but my favorite is o1 I have a cpl 154cm Im very interested in cpm s30v but I mostly stick with o1 I love every thing about it.
Idk if i would go that far? 5160 is still a very good steel. Realistically there will never be a reason why you would flex your blade 45-90 degrees in the field. I am more concerned with ahock absorbency and never had an issue with either steel.
"1095" is the name US industries use for steels that are ~.95% carbon ~.3 manganese and very little else except iron. "Stainless steels" are steels that are more than 13% chromium. Having that much chromium makes them less likely to rust. Any steel with that much chromium CAN NOT be called 1095 because 1095 can't have that much chromium in it.
I know this video is old. I’m wondering what is the highest hardness 5160 you’ve seen good edge retention yet still be tough. Do you think 80cv is better big knife steal. I’m wanting a 12-13inch chopper fighting knife. Basically a real Bowie a do everything ok type of knife. I’m a martial artist so I want a knife that is strong in all my area’s. Think Philippine people carry big knives that do all. I want the same with American toughness. What really keeps me up is thickness. I might need to make a bunch of knives and keep the best. Or buy a machete any answers will be very appreciated
I haven’t worked with 80cv. The reason I use 5160 a lot is it’s cost effective and heat treat consistently. It’s commonly use for leaf spring in large trucks. My target harness is between 53 to 58 RHC. Low end for toughness and high end for edge retention. 1/4” for larger knives and chopper. Swords 5/16”. There are other steels out there that perform better then 5160 but the price skyrockets.
@@drrougeau I was wondering because I have rear leafspings from a 1974 dodge motorhome. Figure I’d make a few blades or short swords. Because of the age I know everything is American made. The steel is probably out of Baltimore Bethlehem steel. Anyway thanks for the advice. I have enough I can experiment
It's not heat treated properly if a 5160 spring steel blade will not go 90 without snapping, it should be twice as flexible as a 1095 blade. I would still use 1095 on a short blade though, it is better knife blade material, once a blade goes over 28 inches I wouldn't use anything but properly treated tempered 5160 spring steel.
It depends on the thickness of the blade and how hard you leave the steel. Do you want toughness and flexibility or good edge retention. I can make a 1/8" thick blade bend past 90 and spring back to almost straight. Heat treating and tempering Is all about what you want the steel and blade to do.
Hi. I make knives by forge with coal and i have a question. The temple temp is like 815c or 1500f the same but what if i over heat to then wait to heat low like 815? I only have the coal forge and dont have anyway to control the heat. Is that important to the grain size?
Rougeau Knives cool, i have people argue all the time "properly heat treated 440c" its funny because they keep saying "properly heat treated" as though leaving any fault with it was not properly done
The Gerber Strongarm is one of the most durable knives on the market. It smokes the other more expensive and popular knives. The Gerber is 440c Joe X does destruction test and it took 3 videos for him to destroy the Strongarm. Shot it with a 9mm like 10+ times.. Almost chopped thru a concrete block after 20 minutes of beating on it.. Did pull ups on the knife.. On the flip side, he breaks 1095 knives like they're glass.. 1 slap on the concrete block basically shatters them.. That's all I'm saying.. I'll never buy another 1095 knife. I actually broke a Kabar trying to stab it into a car windshield. 1 hit snapped the tip like 2 inches down. Brand new knife. First day at work with it. On the flip side of that, I had a $20 Smith and Wesson pocket knife I used to bust out car windows.. Hundreds of car windows.. I still got that old Smith and Wesson knife. I work in a salvage yard incase anyone is wondering why I bust out car windows. We'd bust the windows, then fill the cars with junk car parts, then crush the cars down.
Not always. It could be 1080 or lower carbon steel. They will heat treat fine but you need to know the hardness after quench. There’s a good chance it’s 5160. Especially if it’s off a heavy truck. Heat treat a sample first.
I just noticed I bent my 1095 clay tempered katana, straight blade. or it came bent and I just noticed. the bent isn't that bad, just curves a little bit to the left. can I fix that without hurting the blade more?
+Adam Salava A bench vise with something soft (rubber, cloth, wood) in the jaws. Clamp right below the bend and flex the top away from the bend direction. be very careful if you do this with a sharpened blade.
FWIW I "liked" this video the second you said you put all of the extra footage at the *end*. I love extra footage when I have the time, but hate having to skip through videos to rapidly collect data when that is the goal.
I use O1 tool steel a lot for Bowies. But you could use 1095, 5160, D2 or 440C. If you are not going to use it much and want it to look good than go with Stainless Steel.
Im going to forge it and im going to use it a lot. Which would be best to forge? I was thinking 1095 as the edge and sides and have 1050 as the core. I am going to layer it about 15x, Thanks for the advice!!!
A 1085 core and 5160 outer would be nice. Or mono steel 1095 blade would be a lot less work and would function just well. 5160 hardens more evenly and it holders a better edge.
SLEDGEHAMMER ... THE MOTHER OF ALL ABUSE!!! ... damn i miss Peter Gabriel It's also good to know that 1095 rusts easier and has much more variation in grain type. 5160 tends to rust evenly. Heat treating thick 1095 is tricky because carbon steels in general are not very hardenable. All other things being equal, 1095 should hold its edge better and 5160 (motor vehicle leaf spring steel) is tougher (not that 1095 isn't tough). 5160 is the way to go for big blades because of alloying. WITH MOST KNIFEMAKERS IT"S THE QUALITY OF THE HEAT TREATMENT that is SOMEWHAT underutilized. OVEN IS THE BEST INVESTMENT YOU CAN MAKE. Thanks for your effort and I fully agree with your observations.
he lowered hardness to achieve toughness if you temper it for less time and at lower temperature it has better edge retention but it's the lower carbon that makes the difference (0.55-0.65% C for 5160 and 0.90-1.03% C for 1095).
Great video, expensive information lol but nothing like having a good comparison. Just wondering do u ever temper the spines differently? The way I was taught you do this so you can have your higher edge harness and still get a good bend and I also always temper the tip just a Lil more then the rest of the edge to keep it from breaking. Guess I should follow you example and share my test so others learn from my mishaps:-)
I also do an edge quench and use refractory cement brushed on to create a nice Hamon. Tempering the tip is not a bad idea. I typically leave a little extra meat on the tip so it doesn't become to brittle.
Hi Derick, if you make a kukri out of 5160, what weight of the blade is optimum for cutting bushes and chopping small branches in the woods? And is it possible to make the blade of different hardness at the spine, body and edge? Thanks.
I was going to buy a buck 110, I could buy a 40$ one, with 420hc steel, or I could buy one 20 dollars more expensive but it uses 5160 steel, which one is worth it? I think the 5160 steel one will because im looking for a knife to carry everywhere
Rougeau Knives Gotcha, thanks! I have several stainless steel knives, 420, and they never hold an edge, so thank you for telling me that, that really does help!
Buck's 420hc with their BOS heat treat have a 58R hardness,and won rust..Best of both world.Try to find someone with a 102,119,120,or a 124 complaining about edge retention or whatever,lol
why? i'm just saying that buck's 420hc stainless is as strong as high carbon steel and more resistant to corrosion,and that you wont find many people complaining about their 420hc,because they have a very good heat treating method,called BOS.
1095 is a simple carbon steel and it's tough. Heat treating can be a little tricky and the hardness will very a bit. 5160 is a carbon alloy steel. It's more consistent and easier to heat treat and it also holds a better edge.
+Weird and Crazy Carbon steel is iron that has carbon added to it so it can be heat treated to a higher hardness. The more carbon the harder it will get. High carbon steel would be 1095. 5160 is also considered a high carbon alloy steel. It has other elements in it to aid in a more even heat treat and allows the steel to get harder during the quench.
Just getting into blade making, what steel would you recommend for a beginner? And some of the knife makers that make tutorials, what are there channels?
1095 carbon steel is a common steel to start with. It's cheap and you buy it in six foot bars. 5160 steel is a great steel and easier to heat treat. But you have to buy it in twenty two foot bars and it more expensive. Both are oil quenching steels but 1095 can be quenched in water, however you risk cracking the blade. Checkout Walter Sorrells channel. He does a great job with his videos and he make Japanese Katanas and Tantos. Happy grinding!
How does that bandsaw do at 1:00 mark that's behind you. I'm thinking about getting a horizontal/vertical bandsaw like that, with a 3/4 blade. Mostly for cutting out knives.
How does the 3/4 blade do for cutting out the knife from a flat bar of steel? Is the 3/4 blade harder to do radius cuts, as oppose to a Milwaukee portaband saw? Thanks again.
Efrain PachoI By looking at it's specs it's a thin blade so it should cut through brush well and have a good spring to it. 5160 heat treats better than 1095 and it's a good steel. It has a good hardness for it's purpose. The walnut handles will fail if you don't take care of them but if they do you can replace them with Micarta. It looks like one of their high end machetes. Enjoy!
I came here to look for the best steel hardness for a combat sword. Little note, a piece of wood under the board the pound on on the vice would keep it from moving. :)
My full time job is video graphics designer/lead artist in a game development studio. Yes I use the Adobe production suite and 3d MAX among other apps. Knife making doesn't pay the bills and you need a good job to be able to make knives, it's not cheap.
what do you think about the 80CrV2 Steel blade knife ?? for Survival - Bushcraft/Outdoor knife use ?? do you think is it durable or not ?? whats the best stone to sharpening the blade ?? 80CrV2 Steel knife blade is it weak or is it strong ?? thanks
For a camp knife it's fine 80CrV is basically 1080+ steel. The difference between it and normal 1080 is CrV has +.01% carbon and added some manganese. Is a fairly tough steel and a good beginner steel. The 1080+/CrV does require a 5 min soak at around 1550° AlphaKnifeSupply has the full specs on 80CrV2 on their webpage including the tempering chart
Yeah, no problem at all! I've been using 80CrV2 a lot lately because where I live the places that stock 1080, shipping is too steep for the quantities I order. And I can't seem to find 1080+ anymore. I've also found my gas forge is far easier to regulate temperature during the heat soak than my coal/charcoal one for this metal.
Would these steel types perform roughly the same on stress tests in sub freezing temperatures? Or would a certain steel be less likely to break/chip/etc?
Looks and sounds to me that the 1095 steel is the better steel and you're coming up with every excuse possible cause you want the 5160 to be the better steel. I've used both steels for many years and 1095 had always been the better of the two...IMHO...
Johnny Ra The main reason I like 5160 is it’s easier to heat treat and the results are much more consistent. It also can achieve a higher hardness and holds an edge better. That’s what I’ve found.
Wow!! I have a new respect for both 1095 & 5160. With all the new super steels out there I sometime get kinda bogged down in all the hype.
Thank you for taking the time to make these test. Truly an eye opener. Also thanks for the review. Ken.
a Bad Mojo 5160 and 1095 are both reallt good carbon steels for any size blade. Yes the new so called super steels are good however they still have their down sides "other than cost lol". One of the good things with spring steels like 5160 and 1095. Is they are very reliable and forgiving towards abuse "as this video shows". Added they are alot easier to work and mend/repair than the super steels like nippo as well are much more readily available. Which also means you could get a really high quality blade for alot less money.
1060 high carbon steel vs 5160 srping steel
All steels have different purposes. Modern super steel are intended to be more easy to be super corrosion and wear resistant.
@@gambet0007 modern super steels designed to be sharpened easier?? HAHA
@@convex7456 corrected :3
I love this kind of video! This addresses some of the questions I've had and that are rarely addressed. Most vids show you about how they make the knives, and of course there are plenty about testing knives from knife reviewers, but most of the time the questions about the steels are really left out.
5160 is my absolute favorite for survival knives, large choppers and tough swords.
Thank you! I really appreciate finding videos that actually educates me rather than youtubes usual fare of opinions based on assumptions by the inexperienced.
Great video! I was clenching my teeth when you where bending those blades and almost was in tears when they broke. The price one pays for the love of the craft. thanks.
That knife rebounded all the way into my heart.
hey thanks for the video. I knew 1095 was tough but good lord! 1095 is my go too but thanks for the info on blade toughness, very informative.
This was great! I have a ton of 5160 and will be happily making many knives from it. Thank you!
Subscribed!
Friis Forge I just subscribed to your channel too ( you are so invited to my channel too ). Love collecting knives as you will see ....
I have a custom Aldo Bowie . I want to double check but I swear it’s 5160 . ( if it isn’t , than it’s something like 4140 )?????
I gotta find out .
I’ll be in touch soon . ❤️🤠🔪
instablaster.
The bend test makes my heart sink.
every time! crazy test!
@@laubmal Everytime I see it, I think this is why you don't use a knife as a pry bar.
But then again, those seem to tolerate it pretty damn well...
thanks for this video, its good for anyone interested in tools or steels to have a bit of this knowledge
Am I the only that is bracing themselves after 45 degrees
No. I cringed.
lol yea I turned the volume down as well..
I cringe my ass and face so bad
Was leaning in and instinctively sat waaayyy back in my chair.
Hay Rick H, hopefully you see this post. It sounds like the 1095 carbon steel sword isn't very long so at a hardness of 59C it will hold a good edge. My only concern would be it breaking but you would have to really abuse it for it to break. If the maker is doing a differential heat treat then that eliminates the potential breaking problem.
+Rougeau Knives sir ! i want to ask you which steel is better at making sword 1060 1095 T10 or spring ? please help!
1060 has less carbon so it will be tougher but won't hold an edge as well as 1095. T10 is a good steel and is similar to W1 tool steel.
+Rougeau Knives can you compare between 1095 and tools steel ?
Common tool steels are O1, A1, W1 and D2 just to name a few. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses. Tool steel is more uniform in its composition of elements and its more expensive. If it's in your budget go with tool steel. 1095 is iron with 95% carbon added so it can be hardened during heat treat.
If you were me !! T10 katana with harmon and other fitting 200$ Handmade and 1095 harmon with other fitting 185$ ! Which one would you choose? And which is more durable!! It's really helpful if you can answer this last question!! Thank you sir !
very nice info. I do not have the time to do these tests on the stuff I make so it is nice to have someone like you do these tests and share the results. Thanks for posting.
you tortured me with that 90 degrees bend!
I have a number of 1095 blades and haven't had any issues with it at all. I don't have any blades in 5160. That needs to change for sure.
Very informative. Nice to know the integrity of the steel and how its affected by heat treatment for the hardness level desired. I would like to see tests on most of the popular steels used. For ex like the type Gerber uses vs the type cold steel uses. Tests completed for the 1095 and 5160 which you would see with KaBar and Tops even though there heat treatment may differ...
This is really weird to me. How is possible that 5160 HRC 51-52 broke and 1095 53-54 survived. 5160 have lower hardness which should increase tougness even more over the harder 1095. And 5160 itself should be tougher than 1095. But 5160 broke and harder 1095 sligtly bend but held up. Im totally confused by this. Can you explain to me ?? According to your test the statement that 5160 is tougher than 1095 is completely incorrect ?? Or isn't ???
I think the 5160 was hardened to 57rc while 1095 was hardened to 52-51rc. I think this made a huge difference. The only issue I have with these tests is almost no one sells knives at such a low rc level. Most knives are 57-60rc. It would have been better if he had used real life rc levels to see what each knife can withstand. But like he said he tempered them to spring levels which are typically high 40's low 50's.
@voltsoftruthBSbuster
There's also tempered martensite embrittlement from 450-550 range, where it's both softer and weaker. Spring temper should avoid this range. 5160 might have fallen in the to get a comparable hardness?
I love 5160,,but i choose 1095 for utility knives here in Philippines blade makers quench only the edge to avoid break or chip the whole blade i love filipino style for a knife making..
Those are some damn good tests! Really great tests! Thanks!
Great, great video, I needed to see this, like you said, the 1095 was spring tempered, and it didn't break, I like my knives tempered a little harder for a better edge retention, I really like the 1095 CroVan better than the plain 1095, with the right temper, and a zero quenching, it's remarkable, I'm looking at getting a O.K.C. Bushcraft Machete, in 5160, what do you think, but my favorite steel, is the 52100, it's very similar to 5160, but has more carbon, so far my Swamp Rat Knives, are my favorite, again, Thanx for a great video, good job, please keep us informed., we need more of your video's.
So would 1095 make a good EDC knife
Sure.
You should test the same steel with different hardness. Three blades one soft one hard and one differentially hardened.
Is 5160 good for making leaver of bone
Newspaper cut test after chopping thru 2x4s. You mentioned targeting a specific area of the blade for the tests and they're all dull where it was used. The paper is being cut by sections of the blade that were not 'tortured'...
+portydert portydert
I dragged the newspaper through the two inched area of the blade that was abused. Like I said this was not a scientific torture test.
Very cool video,I have the sp50 from okc and its help up good.
Good information. Thanks for posting.
Very informative video sir. Appreciate your time & efforts to compare these steels. Hats off, I only dream of being able to do the things you are able to create! I like both steels, but I own many more 1095 blades as they are cheaper & more on the market than 5160. I can't find cheaper 5160 steel than what Ontario Knife Company offers, & I think they're heat treat isn't consistent...I've tried to sharpen a few...but anyway, thanks for a great vid! I subscribed!
kukri house
I've never had a problem with Ontario heat treat and temper, but even if it isn't consistent, you could still sharpen it.
I would like to know your opinion about 9260 steel
The only knives still in one piece on the table at the end, are the steel formulations with over .95% carbon content in them. That says a lot. 1095 and 01 are my top 2 favorites!
WOW!? Seems ive been misinformed? I never thought 1095 could flex like that? Ive always heard its hard brittle steel. I own a couple 5160 swords and they have very nice flex. I also own a couple 1095 swords from scorpionswords but have been too afraid to even try to flex test them.
How come the cold steel Bushman can bend to 90 degrees and straighten to within 2 degrees
Derek Robbens
I’ve seen bend tests on UA-cam and I noticed that some makers are bending blades that are 1/8” thick or even thinner. I’m bending a blade that 3/16” thick. The thicker the blade the more of a chance it will not spring back as much and or break. Something to keep in mind.
You gotta lower that angle scale so the logo sits where the vice is...
if i am going to buy a katana it's better 1095 or 5160??
It all depends on the heat treat and temper. 1095 will probably be a little tougher but the 5160 will hold a better edge and it will heat treat more evenly. If I were to make one for myself I would lean towards 5160.
I went with the raptor series by James Williams. I'm satisfied, though I did nick the blade on some hard wood. I don't feel that to be too terrible
Dry hard wood is a real issue with just about any steel type.
Would the 5160 have a good enough edge retention to work as a decent allround carving knife? Like in a puukko style knife? I've heard allot of different oppinions about 5160. And the biggest disadvantage people seem to talk about is the edge retention. And because of this many seem to disregard the other advantages of the steel.
I want to get into knifemaking, and havent "started" yet. I know that 5160 is often used in larger blades. But to me it seems like if you would harden 5160 to around 60RC it should have pretty good edge retention but still keep most of the toughness properties without chipping.
What's your experience? Since you prefer 5160. Would it work for a smaller (3-5 inch blade) woodworking/bushcraft knife?
Sorry for the delayed response. 5160 is a great all around steel. Easy to sharpen, tough and it heat treats very well. If you want better performance then you would move into tool steels like O1, D2, A2 and W2. But it cost more for the steel.
Ok, thanks! Ive been loking around and one steel that captured my interest was 80crV2 steel. Its bacicaly a sort of high carbon spring steel. I'l keep doing some research. Thank you for your advice!
Thank you very much for this informative video. I suppose I know quite a lot about steels and knives but I have absolutely zero experience with carbon steels because all the fixed blades from my country are 440C stainless variations, even heavy machetes. I bought a lot of folders from USA but not any fixed yet. I'm Spaniard and we have a lot of knifemakers over here but no one works with carbon steels and I think they are the best for chopping .
I'm wanting to melt down 1095 carbon steel and sand cast a sword will it hold up well
I've heard there are issues with casting. I would use clean bar-stock and waterjet cut the profile and grind it. Your going to have to grind it anyway.
@@drrougeau will 1095 carbon steel flat rectangle pallets work I ordered them online
Nice work & Video. In HS shop class a friend made a small sword out of leaf springs. What is the most economical ways to obtain metal for fabricating a knife, sword, halberd etc..TY
I haven't found much info on 52100 heat treat and performance if u ever get bored a video would be much appreciated by a lot of people I'm sure.
Ed Fowler has a DVD he made and he goes through the heat treating and testing process of 52100.
Great vid I surely thought 5160 wld do better than that but I never & wld never buy a knife made from 5160 unless it was $20 or less. I have a bunch of 1095 but my favorite is o1 I have a cpl 154cm Im very interested in cpm s30v but I mostly stick with o1 I love every thing about it.
Idk if i would go that far? 5160 is still a very good steel. Realistically there will never be a reason why you would flex your blade 45-90 degrees in the field. I am more concerned with ahock absorbency and never had an issue with either steel.
I am looking for a good belt sanded brand names place to by so on thx
where do you get your steel to make knives
dude thankyou for these cool informative videos. I wish you would do this same video but with swords that are differentially hardened !!
Very Good test, what sharpening angle have those knives?
If the knives were one quarter inch thick the results would've been much different right?
Not in the cutting performance but the bend test would be different. It would be much harder to bend it.
is there any difference between 1095 carbon stainless steel and 1095 carbon steel?
"1095" is the name US industries use for steels that are ~.95% carbon ~.3 manganese and very little else except iron. "Stainless steels" are steels that are more than 13% chromium. Having that much chromium makes them less likely to rust. Any steel with that much chromium CAN NOT be called 1095 because 1095 can't have that much chromium in it.
+kristokirov ok cheers
Is 9260 better than 5160?
I know this video is old. I’m wondering what is the highest hardness 5160 you’ve seen good edge retention yet still be tough. Do you think 80cv is better big knife steal. I’m wanting a 12-13inch chopper fighting knife. Basically a real Bowie a do everything ok type of knife. I’m a martial artist so I want a knife that is strong in all my area’s. Think Philippine people carry big knives that do all. I want the same with American toughness.
What really keeps me up is thickness. I might need to make a bunch of knives and keep the best. Or buy a machete any answers will be very appreciated
I haven’t worked with 80cv. The reason I use 5160 a lot is it’s cost effective and heat treat consistently. It’s commonly use for leaf spring in large trucks. My target harness is between 53 to 58 RHC. Low end for toughness and high end for edge retention. 1/4” for larger knives and chopper. Swords 5/16”. There are other steels out there that perform better then 5160 but the price skyrockets.
@@drrougeau I was wondering because I have rear leafspings from a 1974 dodge motorhome. Figure I’d make a few blades or short swords. Because of the age I know everything is American made. The steel is probably out of Baltimore Bethlehem steel. Anyway thanks for the advice. I have enough I can experiment
I didn't see the footage of u doing the hardness testing and whatnot at the end that u said would be there...did u forget? :-/
Spun13 All of that footage is here in this video, enjoy!
ua-cam.com/video/z7bk9c5NTFI/v-deo.html
thank you sir for that experments i realy like it and you did a very good and hard work
you must've used nos videos as your rollmodel for this torture test right ?
It's not heat treated properly if a 5160 spring steel blade will not go 90 without snapping, it should be twice as flexible as a 1095 blade. I would still use 1095 on a short blade though, it is better knife blade material, once a blade goes over 28 inches I wouldn't use anything but properly treated tempered 5160 spring steel.
It depends on the thickness of the blade and how hard you leave the steel. Do you want toughness and flexibility or good edge retention. I can make a 1/8" thick blade bend past 90 and spring back to almost straight. Heat treating and tempering Is all about what you want the steel and blade to do.
Is it possible to make pattern weld with 5160 and 15N20?
I will like to see 5160 vs the Super steel V3 !
Building katanas. And next build is 5160 differencaly clay treat wakashasi. Needed this video
Hi. I make knives by forge with coal and i have a question. The temple temp is like 815c or 1500f the same but what if i over heat to then wait to heat low like 815? I only have the coal forge and dont have anyway to control the heat. Is that important to the grain size?
Im using spring steel that i almost know is 5160.
should do a video with a 440c blade in comparison. love my 1095 knife.
Eventually I will do a Stainless steel test video. I have to much to do!
Rougeau Knives cool, i have people argue all the time "properly heat treated 440c" its funny because they keep saying "properly heat treated" as though leaving any fault with it was not properly done
The Gerber Strongarm is one of the most durable knives on the market. It smokes the other more expensive and popular knives. The Gerber is 440c
Joe X does destruction test and it took 3 videos for him to destroy the Strongarm. Shot it with a 9mm like 10+ times.. Almost chopped thru a concrete block after 20 minutes of beating on it.. Did pull ups on the knife..
On the flip side, he breaks 1095 knives like they're glass.. 1 slap on the concrete block basically shatters them..
That's all I'm saying.. I'll never buy another 1095 knife. I actually broke a Kabar trying to stab it into a car windshield. 1 hit snapped the tip like 2 inches down. Brand new knife. First day at work with it. On the flip side of that, I had a $20 Smith and Wesson pocket knife I used to bust out car windows.. Hundreds of car windows.. I still got that old Smith and Wesson knife.
I work in a salvage yard incase anyone is wondering why I bust out car windows. We'd bust the windows, then fill the cars with junk car parts, then crush the cars down.
10/10 thanks for doing the tests, the more blades you bend the less I have to lol.
Can you please do one for 5160 vs 9260 vs T10 vs 1095.
I only test steels that I plan on working with. However I might do a video on tool steels like 01, D2, A2, W2, and 3V.
So, I have some leaf spring steel that I am working with. That is usually 5160 correct?
Not always. It could be 1080 or lower carbon steel. They will heat treat fine but you need to know the hardness after quench. There’s a good chance it’s 5160. Especially if it’s off a heavy truck. Heat treat a sample first.
@@drrougeau Got it, thanks!
stack the blade pieces and make a pattern welded steel
Great video!
I just noticed I bent my 1095 clay tempered katana, straight blade. or it came bent and I just noticed. the bent isn't that bad, just curves a little bit to the left. can I fix that without hurting the blade more?
Thanks I'll give it a try
+Adam Salava A bench vise with something soft (rubber, cloth, wood) in the jaws. Clamp right below the bend and flex the top away from the bend direction. be very careful if you do this with a sharpened blade.
Thanks for the help, I'm giving it a try tomorrow. I don't even know how it got bent..
FWIW I "liked" this video the second you said you put all of the extra footage at the *end*. I love extra footage when I have the time, but hate having to skip through videos to rapidly collect data when that is the goal.
What steel would you use for a Bowie knife
I use O1 tool steel a lot for Bowies. But you could use 1095, 5160, D2 or 440C. If you are not going to use it much and want it to look good than go with Stainless Steel.
Im going to forge it and im going to use it a lot. Which would be best to forge? I was thinking 1095 as the edge and sides and have 1050 as the core. I am going to layer it about 15x, Thanks for the advice!!!
A 1085 core and 5160 outer would be nice. Or mono steel 1095 blade would be a lot less work and would function just well. 5160 hardens more evenly and it holders a better edge.
Ok cool thanks man!!
And how would i harden it?
SLEDGEHAMMER ... THE MOTHER OF ALL ABUSE!!! ... damn i miss Peter Gabriel
It's also good to know that 1095 rusts easier and has much more variation in grain type. 5160 tends to rust evenly. Heat treating thick 1095 is tricky because carbon steels in general are not very hardenable. All other things being equal, 1095 should hold its edge better and 5160 (motor vehicle leaf spring steel) is tougher (not that 1095 isn't tough). 5160 is the way to go for big blades because of alloying. WITH MOST KNIFEMAKERS IT"S THE QUALITY OF THE HEAT TREATMENT that is SOMEWHAT underutilized. OVEN IS THE BEST INVESTMENT YOU CAN MAKE. Thanks for your effort and I fully agree with your observations.
Most people testing for JS in ABS use 5160 bowies, and they have to survive 90° bends to pass. It's absolutely all about the heat treat.
Great test!! Thanks !! Liked !!
Subscribed, good video bud! Looking forward to more!
Thanks ! Great info and video
great test ! very helpfull
"lets go 90".... Me: PLEASE DON'T!
ha! YUP
I dont think the hardened 5160 blade should have dulled much after a 2 by 4.........
he lowered hardness to achieve toughness if you temper it for less time and at lower temperature it has better edge retention but it's the lower carbon that makes the difference (0.55-0.65% C for 5160 and 0.90-1.03% C for 1095).
Your 5160 steel didn't return true. It was was worse then 1095. That's odd
Great video, expensive information lol but nothing like having a good comparison. Just wondering do u ever temper the spines differently? The way I was taught you do this so you can have your higher edge harness and still get a good bend and I also always temper the tip just a Lil more then the rest of the edge to keep it from breaking. Guess I should follow you example and share my test so others learn from my mishaps:-)
I also do an edge quench and use refractory cement brushed on to create a nice Hamon. Tempering the tip is not a bad idea. I typically leave a little extra meat on the tip so it doesn't become to brittle.
Thank you
Hi Derick, if you make a kukri out of 5160, what weight of the blade is optimum for cutting bushes and chopping small branches in the woods? And is it possible to make the blade of different hardness at the spine, body and edge? Thanks.
I was going to buy a buck 110, I could buy a 40$ one, with 420hc steel, or I could buy one 20 dollars more expensive but it uses 5160 steel, which one is worth it? I think the 5160 steel one will because im looking for a knife to carry everywhere
Go with the 5160 carbon alloy stel,. I don't work with any stainless steels lower than 440c.
Rougeau Knives Gotcha, thanks! I have several stainless steel knives, 420, and they never hold an edge, so thank you for telling me that, that really does help!
Buck's 420hc with their BOS heat treat have a 58R hardness,and won rust..Best of both world.Try to find someone with a 102,119,120,or a 124 complaining about edge retention or whatever,lol
i already bought the 5160 and your comment doesnt make that much sense
why? i'm just saying that buck's 420hc stainless is as strong as high carbon steel and more resistant to corrosion,and that you wont find many people complaining about their 420hc,because they have a very good heat treating method,called BOS.
Is 5160 a better steel than 1095? Like holds a better edge longer and all that?
1095 is a simple carbon steel and it's tough. Heat treating can be a little tricky and the hardness will very a bit. 5160 is a carbon alloy steel. It's more consistent and easier to heat treat and it also holds a better edge.
O ok cool!!!! Thank you for your help sir Rougeau Knives
i know nothing about knifes but watching him bend that knife like that gave me Anxiety.
Stab test made me nervous bruh
5160 is a great steel. I love it.
was it high carbon steel?
+Weird and Crazy
1095 is a high carbon steel and 5160 is a carbon alloy steel. 5160 is more consistent to heat treat.
ok thanks alot
+Rougeau Knives what does that mean? (i know nothing about steel)
+Weird and Crazy
Carbon steel is iron that has carbon added to it so it can be heat treated to a higher hardness. The more carbon the harder it will get. High carbon steel would be 1095. 5160 is also considered a high carbon alloy steel. It has other elements in it to aid in a more even heat treat and allows the steel to get harder during the quench.
Just getting into blade making, what steel would you recommend for a beginner? And some of the knife makers that make tutorials, what are there channels?
1095 carbon steel is a common steel to start with. It's cheap and you buy it in six foot bars. 5160 steel is a great steel and easier to heat treat. But you have to buy it in twenty two foot bars and it more expensive. Both are oil quenching steels but 1095 can be quenched in water, however you risk cracking the blade. Checkout Walter Sorrells channel. He does a great job with his videos and he make Japanese Katanas and Tantos. Happy grinding!
Isn't a 5160 spring steel knife a bit...I don't know...Overkill?
lancemichael gubat Not necessarily. A tool steel knife would be more overkill.
How does that bandsaw do at 1:00 mark that's behind you. I'm thinking about getting a horizontal/vertical bandsaw like that, with a 3/4 blade. Mostly for cutting out knives.
it's the Grizzly G0621X Bandsaw, variable speed. So far I love it but it's not cheap.
How does the 3/4 blade do for cutting out the knife from a flat bar of steel? Is the 3/4 blade harder to do radius cuts, as oppose to a Milwaukee portaband saw? Thanks again.
You can do some good sweeping cuts but finger notches another thing.
I'm looking at getting a O.K.C. Bushcraft Machete, in 5160, what do you think?
Efrain PachoI By looking at it's specs it's a thin blade so it should cut through brush well and have a good spring to it. 5160 heat treats better than 1095 and it's a good steel. It has a good hardness for it's purpose. The walnut handles will fail if you don't take care of them but if they do you can replace them with Micarta. It looks like one of their high end machetes. Enjoy!
Rougeau Knives does the 5160 steel make a ringing sound when you thumped it against something?
Efrain Pacho I guess most steels would. the thinner the more it would ring.
I came here to look for the best steel hardness for a combat sword. Little note, a piece of wood under the board the pound on on the vice would keep it from moving. :)
I'm guessing into film and editing as you have dual screens and editing on adobe premier pro!
My full time job is video graphics designer/lead artist in a game development studio. Yes I use the Adobe production suite and 3d MAX among other apps. Knife making doesn't pay the bills and you need a good job to be able to make knives, it's not cheap.
Oh cool I'm a tester... (Everyone laughs and calls me stupid)
Proper heat treating more important overall
i expected that 5160 would bend better than 1095.
90 degrees looks 95.
Who won?
Jonathan Segura Corrotea
I prefer 5160.
Fank you sir, you have did great service.
2nd test made it to 70 and well the third made it to 65
This was an extremely helpful video and a very well made one as well ;)
thank you! lots of useful information!!!!
what do you think about the 80CrV2 Steel blade knife ?? for Survival - Bushcraft/Outdoor knife use ?? do you think is it durable or not ?? whats the best stone to sharpening the blade ?? 80CrV2 Steel knife blade is it weak or is it strong ?? thanks
Sorry I'm not familiar with 80CrV2 steel.
For a camp knife it's fine
80CrV is basically 1080+ steel.
The difference between it and normal 1080 is CrV has +.01% carbon and added some manganese.
Is a fairly tough steel and a good beginner steel. The 1080+/CrV does require a 5 min soak at around 1550°
AlphaKnifeSupply has the full specs on 80CrV2 on their webpage including the tempering chart
ok that's a good advice, thank you very much for your reply, much appreciated :-) cheers
Yeah, no problem at all! I've been using 80CrV2 a lot lately because where I live the places that stock 1080, shipping is too steep for the quantities I order. And I can't seem to find 1080+ anymore.
I've also found my gas forge is far easier to regulate temperature during the heat soak than my coal/charcoal one for this metal.
thank you nice to know that , cheers :)
Would these steel types perform roughly the same on stress tests in sub freezing temperatures? Or would a certain steel be less likely to break/chip/etc?
They would break more easily.
Awesome video great job. new subscriber, doing best heat treat possibly keep up great work.Do you make custom knives for people. thank you!!
Looks and sounds to me that the 1095 steel is the better steel and you're coming up with every excuse possible cause you want the 5160 to be the better steel. I've used both steels for many years and 1095 had always been the better of the two...IMHO...
Johnny Ra
The main reason I like 5160 is it’s easier to heat treat and the results are much more consistent. It also can achieve a higher hardness and holds an edge better. That’s what I’ve found.
Thanks
thank you.