Applied Science Hey thanks Ben! That means a lot coming from you! This test was not nearly as scientific as I'd like to be in the future... I'm mulling over ideas for an edge retention testing rig that would use my machining center as the motion control platform. Guide the knife through a wear medium and use a load cell to measure dulling over time. If you're ever interested in a steel testing collaboration that could be a lot of fun! Impact testing, heat-treating, edge retention testing, micrographs and so on!
To be clear I don't consider this testing to be the 'last word' on these steels, but hopefully the testing provides a useful datapoint for others! The testing was good fun, and getting to do something I love (making knives, as well as other stuff) really is it's own reward! Thanks for the well wishes!
this run of tests was simply amazing. It deserves utter respect to sacrifice so much time and means to know not only your profession better, but the materials as well, to provide the best product possible. Hats off, Aaron.
This is why youtube is so great. Im so thankful that you documented your research. Its clear that you are a true professional. I would be thrilled to own one of your blades.
Amazing work and destruction tests kept in a scientific way as much as possible. Love the idea of doing it as a "blind study" to avoid the influence of your expectations on the performance of the different types of steel. All the best for your shop and your future endeavours. Cheers, mate!
Wow Man ! You were very thorough with these tests. That's a lot of time you put in there, I hope viewers realized that. You could have keept that information to yourself so thanks a ton for being kind enough to share, I think that makes you a great knife maker, both in skills and spirit !!
The kiln is amazing. It's great being able to exactly control the heat-treatment. The grinder has been a steeper learning curve than I thought, still getting the hang of that one!
Me too man! CPM3V threw quite a lot of high energy shrapnel when it failed it both the tests... That's one of the reasons why I'm going with A2 instead for my knives. Also the CPM3V did bend further before breaking, but it was plasticly deforming (ie: it didn't spring back) whereas A2 bent less far, but ended up still being perfectly straight after it broke...
Thank you very much for this expensive test. Many people argue you don't use for this test all existing test but they don't imagine how much cost even a simple test as this in terms of money, materials and waste of precious time. Thank you very much!
Thanks mate! Realistically it was actually more than 200 hours as I had to also do all the prep by buying the steels and such. It was actually good fun though, I look forward to doing something even more comprehensive in the future!
Hi, Its great to link up. I will forward some info about my trips to Canada, Cree and Ojibwa. Had a good look at your web site, will look at more UA-cams, only see two. I also note, there is a long wait, no problem. Take care, Stewart
Absolutely! If you have a look in the video description there is a link to the thread on BladeForums that covers all of the heat-treatments used, as well as going into more detail about the results themselves.
That was what I figured from your original question. O1 is pretty forgiving in heat-treat if you want a knife that won't see much abuse. If you want ultimate toughness with home-style heat-treatment then a spring steel like 1084 is probably your best bet.
Phenomenal test - loved every minute of it. I have a question though: why don't you use "celebrity" steels like Elmax, S35VN, S90V, or M390? My guess is that material cost differences are pretty small compared to your labor, and your customers would love to get these steels.
Thanks! It taught me a lot and I'm a lot less hesitant to think about experimenting with different steels now. I'm also now acutely aware of which parts of the blade geometry need special attention (tip profile and thickness definitely being one!)
Another thing to bear in mind is that hardness can really affect how fine of an edge the steel can take. I tested A2 at 64HRC, 62HRC 60HRC and 59HRC. 59HRC was the toughest, but the steel took a noticeably finer edge at 64HRC. it didn't seem to keep that edge any better than the softer steels when cutting rough materials though as it was likely micro-chipping... That kind of edge might be of use in light-duty situations though like razors or some kitchen knives.
I didn't get the chance to test 1095 yet. I was somewhat time constrained as I need to get back to making knives that won't be broken! My guess is that with the right heat-treatment 1095 would hold up very well. Being a plain carbon steel it will have a very fine carbide structure and will be very tough. I certainly liked it well enough in the KaBar that I used to own!
No worries! Glad you liked it! All my knives have secondary bevels, I just may not have shown that part in my other videos. I do tend to get excited when it's time to sharpen up a knife for the first time! The tool I'm using in the video for sharpening is called a 'Lansky Sharpener'. They work well and are quite inexpensive. There are some tricks to using them though, I'm planning on doing a video about it soon.
A2 is great! CPM3V is great too! O1 also has awesome performance, but definitely rusts more easily! If you're after an inexpensive steel that doesn't require much equipment to heat-treat then I would recommend looking at 1084 from 'New Jersey Steel Baron'. It costs as little as $10 for 4 feet of steel, and has .84% carbon which means to heat treat it you can simply heat it to dull red and then quench in oil or brine, while generally getting great performance!
I order steel from a number of places, but 'Jantz Supply' has a very good selection. Using files only I can rough out the bevels for a 4" blade in about 1-1/2 hours... Then it takes a couple of hours to sand away the file marks...
If you want a steel that has a very easy heat-treatment process I would suggest having a look at 1084. When people say a steel is great, they generally mean "this steel is great with proper heat-treatment". Some steels can be quite complicated to heat-treat. 1095 is easy to heat-treat to get mediocre results, but getting the best out of it requires a bit of finesse from what I have heard. 1084 won't get you quite as good results, but it gives up it's best much more easily...
Hey mate! Thanks for stopping in! If you have a look in the video description there are links to the thread on BladeForums that go into detail about the heat-treatments used. It's a bit long to do on the comments here! :D
Aaron, I cant thank you enough for this extensive test. I am a new knife maker. I started knife making as a hobby to help with physical therapy for an old military injury. I have spent most of 2016 compiling information and equipment to use. I am almost ready to start making something worthwhile. The data that you have put here in worth its weight in gold. I have watched many of your videos several times. I have learned so much. You are a mad genius sir. I have said this before to you, but I must say it again. thank you and I certainly wish you the best in your knife making career. With the careful planning and thought that you put toward your product line, it is destined to be the best on the market. Happy holidays and best wishes.
I understand completely mate! There process is very complicated when you get down to the nuts and bolts, I won't even pretend that I understand it all! If you get a recipe that works, either from someone else or through experimentation, then that is all you really need! A2 is expensive compared to 1095 (which is very inexpensive) there are steels that are much more expensive again like CPM154.
This is one of the best videos on knife testing. The methodology and protocol is excellent and speaks of your commitment to quality. You don't need to make and advertisement video, this is it.
Thanks! All the blades were sub-zero treated, and as I understand it Cryo does not make the blades tougher... In fact it might make them less tough because of the carbide precipitation that it encourages...
Thanks! Unfortunately A2 is quite a lot harder to heat-treat than O1. It's not that much more complicated but you pretty much have to use a kiln to do it properly...
I just want to thank you for all the testing and the information you are providing. Other Knifemakers or Companys keep their knowledge for them self, to give them the edge in proficiency and quality. But you just lay your results open. As a hobby knifemaker I really appreciate this. Thank you.
I can't conclusively say this is 'the best' heat-treat for O1, but it's the recipe I got the best results with during testing: Double coat in anti-scale (ATP-641 or ATP-304) Stress relieve: Ramp to 1200ºF, hold 2 hours, furnace cool to 900ºF, cool in still air to room temperature Preheat to 1200ºF, hold 10 minutes Ramp to 1470ºF, hold 30 minutes Quench into oil to ambient Sub-zero treatment in dry ice and isopropanol for 45 minutes Temper @ 400ºF, twice, 2hrs each time -> 59.7HRC
Haven't tried it to be honest as I've mainly used it on my grinder. I've done some filing/sawing without the jig though and it seems to work about the same as O1, not sure I'd notice any difference unless I was going back and forth between two blades of the different metals. The main issue with A2 versus O1 is that you would need to send it out for heat-treat if you don't have a kiln.
Rather than water submersion I did water spray.. There needs to be both air and moisture to encourage rust, so the steels would likely do better when fully submerged!
For example: the less tough steels like 440C would require thicker edges and beefier overall blade shapes in order to be as strong and durable as a thinner knife made from A2. Obviously a thinner knife is better, but in some conditions the rust-resistance of 440C would be a big advantage over A2. Each steel has it's place basically. For my Resolute knives I think A2 or CPM3V is the right choice, but for smaller knives that are likely to be exposed to sweat (like pocket knives) I'll use CPM154..
Basically every steel needs slightly different heat-treatment processes. Take a pudding and a waffle for example, both ate delicious sugary snacks, but if you swapped the recipes neither would likely turn out very well! A2 is a great steel for my knives. CPM3V would have worked well too. All of the steels I tested will make decent knives in fact, but the designs would have to be tweaked to match up to the capabilities of the steel...
That's probably the least expensive steel to get started with. There are more details to the heat-treat if you want to get 'the best' results, it's worth a bit of research for sure. But from what I understand it's pretty hard to wrong with, so it's a good place to start! O1 is very forgiving as well, but more expensive. A2 requires you have a kiln or that you send it out for heat-treatment.
Some of the best knife videos I've seen on UA-cam. I'd love to see more videos of the knifemaking process. Thank you for the hard work and quality presentation.
No worries mate! I wouldn't use the dremel for that personally, I think you'll find a decent hacksaw is inexpensive and much faster! I'm sure you'll do fine making the jig, just take your time!
Most steels can be honed to that state if you're using the right abrasives. Carbide-heavy steels like D2 need abrasives that can cut the carbides (like diamond). Regular waterstones aren't generally able to cut the carbides which leads to them leaving a very toothy edge. Steels with finder carbides like A2 should need any special treatment...
I didn't get the chance to test 1095 unfortunately. It should be very tough, but it requires a careful heat-treatment. If you want a steel that requires the least careful heat-treatment then using 1084 would be the way to go... I've never used 1095 but I imagine it should be fine as well!
I actually already did that! I didn't include it in the video as it's kind of hard to convey, but if you go through the threads linked in the description you'll see it. Basically it boils down to: Corrosion resistance: Best: 440C CPM154 CPM3V A2 O1 Worst: The difference between A2 and O1 was pretty big, and again the difference between A2 and CPM3V was fairly small.
One of the most informative vids I've seen on YT (on any subject). And the testing info on the links is superb. All to often YT experts assume a level of knowledge in their viewers that they simply do not have. I have been considering making knives for some time now and your videos show that it is not beyond me. Thankyou very much.
I don't believe so unfortunately. I was only using the bench grinder to do the outline of the blades. I would recommend making the filing jig that I show in another video on my channel if you're just getting started and want to make great bevels!
Thanks! I think testing by anyone is valuable, but it's hard to do valid testing when you're using blades made by others, as they'll all have different blade geometries. I had the luxury of making the blades myself and being able to make them identical! In the future I need to work out more repeatable ways of doing all the tests, then perhaps I'll test a wider range of steels...
That broken light at the end is something that would totally happen to me too! Great testing and thanks for sharing all of your work and knowledge with us!
Wow! I'm impressed by the mechanism you created to make sure the strength tests didn't differ. I really enjoyed watching you test out all the blades because it was so well done! Thanks for sparking an interest in metalworking for me :)
Wow!!!! I am so impressed with your time and effort to give us the most unbiased information possible. I am just starting knife making so thank you so much for this information.
Very cool video, I work for a heat treat shop and deal with A2 daily, and CPM3v on occasion. My dept. is vacuum furnaces, nitrogen quenching. We don't run alot of knife blades in my furnaces, they mostly get processed in the molten salt.
Been wanting to try knife-making for fun for a long time. Your videos pushed me over the edge--just bought your sample material list off amazon. Here goes!
Don't be turned off the other steels too much! After the testing once of my larger overall conclusions is that I could make a decent blade from most any of the steels, just my design would have to be tweaked for some of the less tough steels... If you're dealing with a maker that knows what they're doing then it's likely you'll get good results with any steel they care to give you! (the exception being some budget production knives which give up edge-holding for cheapness).
The steel that I'm using in combination with the foil is not actually O1, it will be an air-hardening steel like A2... That eliminates the need for oil, as well as the need to remove it from the foil package. Have you seen the video on my channel that covers how to heat-treat O1? -Aaron
Just wanted to say thanks for doing all of this work so that not only you, but others can benefit from the information. Especially for sharing the heat treat recipes in the forum writups you did. Definitely helpful as I'm deciding whether or not to try stepping into more complex steels than 1095 and O1.
Wow ! That was an incredibly impressive video. You say that took you only 200 hours ? Seriously I think it would take even longer than that for such a meticulous and thorough research project. If I'm ever in the market for a custom knife I would come to you for sure. Very nice work Gough !
Thanks mate! It may well have taken more than 200 hours, I didn't count the time I took selecting/sourcing the steels, and I'm sure there were many other things I forgot to count!
This was a great test. To help you go through the process there is a process called DOE or "design of experiments" it uses comparative data to highlight significant factors and non significant factors. It's what models many laboratory experiments. In it's simplest form a couple of factorial runs can help you select the ranges as you want to recreate your results on any new knives. It can help identify significant values between time and temperature and provide you a robust end product. Just as a Rockwell measurement provides hardness results for metal, it can help you achieve the exact hardness and flexibility from annealing. You done a great job!
This guy is correct in that "DoE" is very useful in whittling down minimal data into meaningful conclusions. We use it in engineering/product design (at least we should)... a like-minded empirical person such as yourself, Aaron, should consider this another useful tool to add to your already-impressive kit...
much appreciated for sacrificing so much of your time and materials on the neat testings, i had heard from someone in another video that knows alot about steels that A2 was the best also. but i also heard its expensive and a bit harder to work with. im trying to get started on building knives myself, finding it pretty hard with very limited funding. but thats life i suppose. thanx again for the nice vids
Very interesting, educational, and well carried out research!!! I would definitely consider your testing methods exceptional and an absolutely unbiased approach for considering which materials are superior for knife makers... This is the best study I have found on testing various knife blade materials!!! I am a pharmaceutical researcher and you carried out the testing as I would if I was a professional knife maker. Thank You for your time, money, and concern for your profession.
I love the look of your knives, and your open and honest UA-cam videos are just fantastic. This one is just superb, thanks! I think this video confirms that "super steels" are first and foremost a marketing thing. And that "correct" heat treat, grinding and bevel geometry are will match or even beat "super steels". It also makes perfect sense for a small scale knife maker, like you, to select a singele good steel and then concentrate on perfecting handling this one steel. Will hopefully be able to by a knife from your next batch!
No worries mate, glad you like it! Yes I agree on the super steels thing... Heat-treatment is first and foremost the most important thing, then edge geometry, then the steel.. I'd rather have a good heat-treat on a simple steel than a mediocre heat-treatment on a fancy steel!
It is awesome to see a real knife maker do this kind of testing. Most of the time it is just a bunch of wind bags blowing hot air that think they are knife makers. Great job my friend..
If you want to forge the blade to shape then having a forge is definitely worth it. If you just want to use a forge for making 'flat' stock to then use in the filing jig, I would just but the steel instead... Buying it you will get actually flat steel of a known type rather than 'car spring' or 'bearing race'...
Nicely done! Thanks for all of your hard work that went into this test.
Applied Science Hey thanks Ben! That means a lot coming from you!
This test was not nearly as scientific as I'd like to be in the future... I'm mulling over ideas for an edge retention testing rig that would use my machining center as the motion control platform. Guide the knife through a wear medium and use a load cell to measure dulling over time.
If you're ever interested in a steel testing collaboration that could be a lot of fun! Impact testing, heat-treating, edge retention testing, micrographs and so on!
To be clear I don't consider this testing to be the 'last word' on these steels, but hopefully the testing provides a useful datapoint for others!
The testing was good fun, and getting to do something I love (making knives, as well as other stuff) really is it's own reward!
Thanks for the well wishes!
this run of tests was simply amazing. It deserves utter respect to sacrifice so much time and means to know not only your profession better, but the materials as well, to provide the best product possible. Hats off, Aaron.
Thanks mate!
hats off to you for all the hard work! very cool to watch!!
+Rob Chesley Thanks Rob!
This is why youtube is so great. Im so thankful that you documented your research. Its clear that you are a true professional. I would be thrilled to own one of your blades.
Thanks mate! More testing coming early next year!
Wow man that's a shitload of work. Thanks for this info.
No worries at all mate!
Amazing work and destruction tests kept in a scientific way as much as possible. Love the idea of doing it as a "blind study" to avoid the influence of your expectations on the performance of the different types of steel. All the best for your shop and your future endeavours. Cheers, mate!
Wow Man ! You were very thorough with these tests. That's a lot of time you put in there, I hope viewers realized that. You could have keept that information to yourself so thanks a ton for being kind enough to share, I think that makes you a great knife maker, both in skills and spirit !!
Glad you liked it!
Great to see people still putting so much effort and attention to their videos , truely fun to watch
Thanks very much mate!
The kiln is amazing. It's great being able to exactly control the heat-treatment. The grinder has been a steeper learning curve than I thought, still getting the hang of that one!
You have the mind of an engineer. Great ideas and good initiative on finding a way to somehow improve your work. Brilliant
Thanks!
Me too man! CPM3V threw quite a lot of high energy shrapnel when it failed it both the tests... That's one of the reasons why I'm going with A2 instead for my knives. Also the CPM3V did bend further before breaking, but it was plasticly deforming (ie: it didn't spring back) whereas A2 bent less far, but ended up still being perfectly straight after it broke...
Thank you very much for this expensive test. Many people argue you don't use for this test all existing test but they don't imagine how much cost even a simple test as this in terms of money, materials and waste of precious time. Thank you very much!
No worries mate!
Man, thanks for taking the time to inform everyone about the best steel! 200 hours, DAMN! You are one hell of a patient man!
Thanks mate! Realistically it was actually more than 200 hours as I had to also do all the prep by buying the steels and such. It was actually good fun though, I look forward to doing something even more comprehensive in the future!
What an amazing, positive test. I know where I will come for a tough knife.
Thanks mate!
Hi, Its great to link up. I will forward some info about my trips to Canada, Cree and Ojibwa. Had a good look at your web site, will look at more UA-cams, only see two. I also note, there is a long wait, no problem. Take care, Stewart
Absolutely! If you have a look in the video description there is a link to the thread on BladeForums that covers all of the heat-treatments used, as well as going into more detail about the results themselves.
Excellent video and very helpful. Enjoying your videos and looking forward to more.
+The Homestead Craftsman Thanks very much mate!
Gough Custom Very interesting video, also extremely helpful, thank you for taking the time to make this, not a cheap process, so again thank you.
That was what I figured from your original question. O1 is pretty forgiving in heat-treat if you want a knife that won't see much abuse. If you want ultimate toughness with home-style heat-treatment then a spring steel like 1084 is probably your best bet.
Thank you for the honest and very valuable testing!! the best blade steel test I have ever seen so far.
Thanks for watching!
Its becoming more and more rare everyday to find someone with a passion as strong as yours. thanks for making quality tools
Thanks mate!
Phenomenal test - loved every minute of it. I have a question though: why don't you use "celebrity" steels like Elmax, S35VN, S90V, or M390? My guess is that material cost differences are pretty small compared to your labor, and your customers would love to get these steels.
Yea. I would love love to see how those steels as well as cts xhp would do.
i saw someone beat on a large elmax knife here, surprisingly tough
His knives are survivalist oriented. Stainless steels like m390 and s90v, while great, aren't nearly tough enough.
Thanks! It taught me a lot and I'm a lot less hesitant to think about experimenting with different steels now. I'm also now acutely aware of which parts of the blade geometry need special attention (tip profile and thickness definitely being one!)
Amazing tests, I would give myself a heart attack if I did the pinchbar test on any knife!
Thanks James! Destroying knives is actually pretty fun once you get over the terror :)
Another thing to bear in mind is that hardness can really affect how fine of an edge the steel can take. I tested A2 at 64HRC, 62HRC 60HRC and 59HRC. 59HRC was the toughest, but the steel took a noticeably finer edge at 64HRC. it didn't seem to keep that edge any better than the softer steels when cutting rough materials though as it was likely micro-chipping... That kind of edge might be of use in light-duty situations though like razors or some kitchen knives.
CPM S35VN Stainless Steel.
yes...
I didn't get the chance to test 1095 yet. I was somewhat time constrained as I need to get back to making knives that won't be broken!
My guess is that with the right heat-treatment 1095 would hold up very well. Being a plain carbon steel it will have a very fine carbide structure and will be very tough. I certainly liked it well enough in the KaBar that I used to own!
No worries! Glad you liked it!
All my knives have secondary bevels, I just may not have shown that part in my other videos. I do tend to get excited when it's time to sharpen up a knife for the first time!
The tool I'm using in the video for sharpening is called a 'Lansky Sharpener'. They work well and are quite inexpensive. There are some tricks to using them though, I'm planning on doing a video about it soon.
A2 is great! CPM3V is great too! O1 also has awesome performance, but definitely rusts more easily!
If you're after an inexpensive steel that doesn't require much equipment to heat-treat then I would recommend looking at 1084 from 'New Jersey Steel Baron'. It costs as little as $10 for 4 feet of steel, and has .84% carbon which means to heat treat it you can simply heat it to dull red and then quench in oil or brine, while generally getting great performance!
I order steel from a number of places, but 'Jantz Supply' has a very good selection.
Using files only I can rough out the bevels for a 4" blade in about 1-1/2 hours... Then it takes a couple of hours to sand away the file marks...
If you want a steel that has a very easy heat-treatment process I would suggest having a look at 1084.
When people say a steel is great, they generally mean "this steel is great with proper heat-treatment". Some steels can be quite complicated to heat-treat. 1095 is easy to heat-treat to get mediocre results, but getting the best out of it requires a bit of finesse from what I have heard. 1084 won't get you quite as good results, but it gives up it's best much more easily...
Hey mate! Thanks for stopping in!
If you have a look in the video description there are links to the thread on BladeForums that go into detail about the heat-treatments used. It's a bit long to do on the comments here! :D
Aaron, I cant thank you enough for this extensive test. I am a new knife maker. I started knife making as a hobby to help with physical therapy for an old military injury. I have spent most of 2016 compiling information and equipment to use. I am almost ready to start making something worthwhile. The data that you have put here in worth its weight in gold. I have watched many of your videos several times. I have learned so much. You are a mad genius sir. I have said this before to you, but I must say it again. thank you and I certainly wish you the best in your knife making career. With the careful planning and thought that you put toward your product line, it is destined to be the best on the market. Happy holidays and best wishes.
Thanks very much mate! Very glad my videos have been helpful and that you like my work!
Thanks! I did my best, there are always going minor differences between the blades but I did what I could to minimize them...
I understand completely mate! There process is very complicated when you get down to the nuts and bolts, I won't even pretend that I understand it all! If you get a recipe that works, either from someone else or through experimentation, then that is all you really need!
A2 is expensive compared to 1095 (which is very inexpensive) there are steels that are much more expensive again like CPM154.
The test blades are all sitting in one of my draws at the shop, ready to be used as comparisons for future testing if need be!
This is one of the best videos on knife testing. The methodology and protocol is excellent and speaks of your commitment to quality. You don't need to make and advertisement video, this is it.
Thanks mate! Glad you enjoyed it!
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your level of dedication to perfecting your craft. Brilliant work man!
no name Thanks mate!
This was some fantastic testing. Thanks for caring enough about your products to take the time to get this data recorded and shared!
+Jim M. No worries at all Jim, thanks for watching! I have another video like this coming out soon showing the coatings testing I just completed!
Thanks! All the blades were sub-zero treated, and as I understand it Cryo does not make the blades tougher... In fact it might make them less tough because of the carbide precipitation that it encourages...
No worries! It was the first video I've made with my new camera, really liking it so far as the footage is much crisper!
Thanks! Unfortunately A2 is quite a lot harder to heat-treat than O1. It's not that much more complicated but you pretty much have to use a kiln to do it properly...
Thanks mate! More videos to come for sure.
Please don't stop making videos your a huge resource for information on knife making. Your knives are unreal. Best on UA-cam.
I just want to thank you for all the testing and the information you are providing. Other Knifemakers or Companys keep their knowledge for them self, to give them the edge in proficiency and quality. But you just lay your results open. As a hobby knifemaker I really appreciate this. Thank you.
No worries at all mate! I hope the video was helpful!
@@GoughCustom How important is the 2h stress releave part, as used with the O1 Ver.2 Blade? Considering the Steel comes annealed.
Yep! There are links in the video description to the testing threads on BladeForums
I can't conclusively say this is 'the best' heat-treat for O1, but it's the recipe I got the best results with during testing:
Double coat in anti-scale (ATP-641 or ATP-304)
Stress relieve: Ramp to 1200ºF, hold 2 hours, furnace cool to 900ºF, cool in still air to room temperature
Preheat to 1200ºF, hold 10 minutes
Ramp to 1470ºF, hold 30 minutes
Quench into oil to ambient
Sub-zero treatment in dry ice and isopropanol for 45 minutes
Temper @ 400ºF, twice, 2hrs each time -> 59.7HRC
The GSO knives look great! Glad to hear they perform well too!
Haven't tried it to be honest as I've mainly used it on my grinder. I've done some filing/sawing without the jig though and it seems to work about the same as O1, not sure I'd notice any difference unless I was going back and forth between two blades of the different metals.
The main issue with A2 versus O1 is that you would need to send it out for heat-treat if you don't have a kiln.
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
Good questions! I hope my answers all made sense!
Rather than water submersion I did water spray.. There needs to be both air and moisture to encourage rust, so the steels would likely do better when fully submerged!
For example: the less tough steels like 440C would require thicker edges and beefier overall blade shapes in order to be as strong and durable as a thinner knife made from A2. Obviously a thinner knife is better, but in some conditions the rust-resistance of 440C would be a big advantage over A2.
Each steel has it's place basically. For my Resolute knives I think A2 or CPM3V is the right choice, but for smaller knives that are likely to be exposed to sweat (like pocket knives) I'll use CPM154..
Basically every steel needs slightly different heat-treatment processes. Take a pudding and a waffle for example, both ate delicious sugary snacks, but if you swapped the recipes neither would likely turn out very well!
A2 is a great steel for my knives. CPM3V would have worked well too. All of the steels I tested will make decent knives in fact, but the designs would have to be tweaked to match up to the capabilities of the steel...
That's probably the least expensive steel to get started with.
There are more details to the heat-treat if you want to get 'the best' results, it's worth a bit of research for sure. But from what I understand it's pretty hard to wrong with, so it's a good place to start!
O1 is very forgiving as well, but more expensive. A2 requires you have a kiln or that you send it out for heat-treatment.
Some of the best knife videos I've seen on UA-cam. I'd love to see more videos of the knifemaking process. Thank you for the hard work and quality presentation.
No worries! I actually have another video on my channel that shows how to make a filing jig just like mine! Not sure if you've seen it?
That was a very good test. Thanks for taking the time to do that. I can tell it was a labor of love.
No worries mate! I wouldn't use the dremel for that personally, I think you'll find a decent hacksaw is inexpensive and much faster!
I'm sure you'll do fine making the jig, just take your time!
Most steels can be honed to that state if you're using the right abrasives. Carbide-heavy steels like D2 need abrasives that can cut the carbides (like diamond). Regular waterstones aren't generally able to cut the carbides which leads to them leaving a very toothy edge.
Steels with finder carbides like A2 should need any special treatment...
Wow, I love the thoroughness and extreme attention detail! What a fantastic test.
I didn't get the chance to test 1095 unfortunately. It should be very tough, but it requires a careful heat-treatment. If you want a steel that requires the least careful heat-treatment then using 1084 would be the way to go... I've never used 1095 but I imagine it should be fine as well!
I actually already did that! I didn't include it in the video as it's kind of hard to convey, but if you go through the threads linked in the description you'll see it.
Basically it boils down to:
Corrosion resistance:
Best:
440C
CPM154
CPM3V
A2
O1
Worst:
The difference between A2 and O1 was pretty big, and again the difference between A2 and CPM3V was fairly small.
Thank for your hard work and your video. The community appreciates it.
+Jason Sargent no worries Jason!
One of the most informative vids I've seen on YT (on any subject).
And the testing info on the links is superb. All to often YT experts assume a level of knowledge in their viewers that they simply do not have.
I have been considering making knives for some time now and your videos show that it is not beyond me. Thankyou very much.
I don't believe so unfortunately. I was only using the bench grinder to do the outline of the blades. I would recommend making the filing jig that I show in another video on my channel if you're just getting started and want to make great bevels!
Thanks mate! It's exciting to start your first knife eh!
Thanks! I think testing by anyone is valuable, but it's hard to do valid testing when you're using blades made by others, as they'll all have different blade geometries. I had the luxury of making the blades myself and being able to make them identical!
In the future I need to work out more repeatable ways of doing all the tests, then perhaps I'll test a wider range of steels...
the best,most comprehensive blade/steel test i have ever seen.
Thanks mate!
Thanks for all the hard work you put into this test. I just picked up a BRKT Aurora in A2!
That broken light at the end is something that would totally happen to me too! Great testing and thanks for sharing all of your work and knowledge with us!
+dinoatlas cheers mate!
What impressed me most is the geometry of the blades.
They appear to not be built like tanks but actually built to cut yet most did impressively well.
Wow! I'm impressed by the mechanism you created to make sure the strength tests didn't differ. I really enjoyed watching you test out all the blades because it was so well done! Thanks for sparking an interest in metalworking for me :)
Glad you liked the video!
Wow!!!! I am so impressed with your time and effort to give us the most unbiased information possible. I am just starting knife making so thank you so much for this information.
+The Gaming Ostrich no worries at all mate!
Very cool video, I work for a heat treat shop and deal with A2 daily, and CPM3v on occasion. My dept. is vacuum furnaces, nitrogen quenching. We don't run alot of knife blades in my furnaces, they mostly get processed in the molten salt.
Been wanting to try knife-making for fun for a long time. Your videos pushed me over the edge--just bought your sample material list off amazon. Here goes!
Nost Nice mate! Best of luck!
No worries mate! Hope it helps!
Don't be turned off the other steels too much! After the testing once of my larger overall conclusions is that I could make a decent blade from most any of the steels, just my design would have to be tweaked for some of the less tough steels... If you're dealing with a maker that knows what they're doing then it's likely you'll get good results with any steel they care to give you! (the exception being some budget production knives which give up edge-holding for cheapness).
Thankyou! I really appreciate how you try to answer every question you can.
Absolutely! I learnt an awful lot during the process, it was time well spent!
The steel that I'm using in combination with the foil is not actually O1, it will be an air-hardening steel like A2... That eliminates the need for oil, as well as the need to remove it from the foil package.
Have you seen the video on my channel that covers how to heat-treat O1?
-Aaron
Just wanted to say thanks for doing all of this work so that not only you, but others can benefit from the information. Especially for sharing the heat treat recipes in the forum writups you did. Definitely helpful as I'm deciding whether or not to try stepping into more complex steels than 1095 and O1.
+Prairie Sun no worries at all, glad the info is helpful!
I'm very impressed with your method and clean lab work. Very nice testing.
NewHampshire Bound Thanks mate, it was a lot of fun!
Very well done. You really put some hard work in here. I was pleased to see that good old 01 came out well.
Sandy
Thanks mate! O1 did OK, as with any steel the heat treat is very important!
Well done again sir!
I felt those knife tips snapping, wow. Quite the honest testing.
Wow ! That was an incredibly impressive video. You say that took you only 200 hours ? Seriously I think it would take even longer than that for such a meticulous and thorough research project. If I'm ever in the market for a custom knife I would come to you for sure. Very nice work Gough !
Thanks mate! It may well have taken more than 200 hours, I didn't count the time I took selecting/sourcing the steels, and I'm sure there were many other things I forgot to count!
Excellent! Congrats for the thoroughness and patience to do all this work! Also thanks a lot for sharing!
+Bogdan Taranu no worries mate!
Sounds like you're having fun mate! Best of luck with it!
Wow, a lot of work went into this. Thanks for making this video.
Sure was! I'm very much looking forward to getting back to making knives that aren't just going to be broken in half...
This was a great test. To help you go through the process there is a process called DOE or "design of experiments" it uses comparative data to highlight significant factors and non significant factors. It's what models many laboratory experiments. In it's simplest form a couple of factorial runs can help you select the ranges as you want to recreate your results on any new knives. It can help identify significant values between time and temperature and provide you a robust end product. Just as a Rockwell measurement provides hardness results for metal, it can help you achieve the exact hardness and flexibility from annealing. You done a great job!
I have a look into the 'design of experiments' thing, sounds interesting!
This guy is correct in that "DoE" is very useful in whittling down minimal data into meaningful conclusions.
We use it in engineering/product design (at least we should)... a like-minded empirical person such as yourself, Aaron, should consider this another useful tool to add to your already-impressive kit...
Very convincing . I'm impressed by how you worked for testing. An excellent video . Congratulations
whiteshadow761 Thanks mate!
Wow! Very impressive testing. Thank you for taking the time and putting it on video!
+Sonny Gunz No worries at all, thanks for watching!
This was very interesting.You done a fair and even test and a lot of work involved.Thank you for taking the time and also showing..
+THEDRAGONBOOSTER8 No worries mate, glad you liked it!
much appreciated for sacrificing so much of your time and materials on the neat testings, i had heard from someone in another video that knows alot about steels that A2 was the best also. but i also heard its expensive and a bit harder to work with. im trying to get started on building knives myself, finding it pretty hard with very limited funding. but thats life i suppose. thanx again for the nice vids
Very interesting, educational, and well carried out research!!! I would definitely consider your testing methods exceptional and an absolutely unbiased approach for considering which materials are superior for knife makers... This is the best study I have found on testing various knife blade materials!!! I am a pharmaceutical researcher and you carried out the testing as I would if I was a professional knife maker. Thank You for your time, money, and concern for your profession.
Thanks mate! I would like to refine my methods even more for the next set of tests, probably via the use of more testing rigs and automated equipment.
If you don't have a kiln you'll likely have to send O1 out to a heat-treating place if you want the very best results.
I love the look of your knives, and your open and honest UA-cam videos are just fantastic. This one is just superb, thanks!
I think this video confirms that "super steels" are first and foremost a marketing thing. And that "correct" heat treat, grinding and bevel geometry are will match or even beat "super steels".
It also makes perfect sense for a small scale knife maker, like you, to select a singele good steel and then concentrate on perfecting handling this one steel.
Will hopefully be able to by a knife from your next batch!
No worries mate, glad you like it!
Yes I agree on the super steels thing... Heat-treatment is first and foremost the most important thing, then edge geometry, then the steel.. I'd rather have a good heat-treat on a simple steel than a mediocre heat-treatment on a fancy steel!
It is awesome to see a real knife maker do this kind of testing. Most of the time it is just a bunch of wind bags blowing hot air that think they are knife makers. Great job my friend..
Great video. You took a lot of guess work out of what steel to use going forward. Hats off to you for the time and effort you put into this.
Thanks mate, glad it was helpful!
If you want to forge the blade to shape then having a forge is definitely worth it. If you just want to use a forge for making 'flat' stock to then use in the filing jig, I would just but the steel instead... Buying it you will get actually flat steel of a known type rather than 'car spring' or 'bearing race'...