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@@Slender_Man_186 dude they all change. You just happen to like 2's and 3's changes more than 4's and 5's. (for reference I started with with 5 and kinda Reach)
@@Zeta4 Halo 2 and 3 evolved off of CE, and there’s a big difference between evolving and outright changing. Also, 2 is easily my least favorite of the Bungie games due to the screwy balance, I can appreciate the development hell the dev team went through, but it really shows that they restarted development mid-way through. 4 and 5 completely threw away the arena shooter gameplay the series was known for in it’s numbered releases, they tried to compete with CoD in the sprint based arcade shooter market and they failed, before Halo wasn’t even in competition with CoD.
@@Zeta4 I mean honestly starting at 5 will defiantly cause a disconnect with what everyone else is feeling. I still dont think change is bad, and your right 2 and 3 changes alot. The only evolving was in 3 because if you want to brutally honest, 3 is just more of 2 but with some things improved on it. But the difference in 343s cases is that most of the changes just universally wernt good, and sort of crapped in the face of long time fans almost like they were going out of their way to piss them off. Change is necessary but not when that change sets out to destroy more then it builds. That's why Reach is my favorite in the series. People can moan all they want, but other then one little thing called armor lock, most of their changes where great and helped build onto preexisting ideas and pave the way for new ones.
Remember that the PS2 was the dominant system and came out before the Xbox. Most kids just had whatever console their parents bought, so Halo 2 didn’t really have room to grow beyond Halo CE’s popularity. The 360 came out way earlier than the PS3 and was like half the price, so more kids had it and gave Halo 3 fertile soil for a good harvest. The same fertile soil and the hype of Halo 3 (and the PS3 still having awful online and pricing) let Reach explode in popularity as well.
I think Nerd Supreme has the right of it. Halo CE was popular as all hell (even though neither Bungie or Microsoft expected it to be quite that popular), so Halo 2 was marketed toward them. I think there's also the console divide to take into account though. Because both Halo CE and Halo 2 were on the system, a lot of people got Halo CE first because why not get the first game if you were going to play the series, and the convenience of a shared system exists? Halo 3 and Halo Reach don't have the relationship dynamic of CE and 2 because Reach was a prequel, not a sequel, and had a different style and vibe to it, so it's crowd may have gotten it instead of 3.
Halo 2 only had the best story, and that's literally it. Its campaign level design was rushed thanks to Microsoft's impatience, and its multiplayer is cute compared to later titles. Having said that, I always played Halo 2's Multiplayer on Windows Vista when I couldn't afford an xbox. Halo 2 also introduced lots of features that are a staple part of what's included in future titles, dual wielding, vehicle hijacking, playing as elites, emblems, secondary colours, etc. Looking back, Halo 2 felt like a rough draft that Bungie made in order to test what works, & what doesn't. And that's pretty neat.
Halo 2 group was most likely Halo CE group. A huge majority of Halo 2's community was those which fell in love with CE and in terms of weapon sandbox, it was pretty similar, both having 1 major head honcho, the Magnum/Battle Rifle.
It's likely because it has changed more excessively than just about any other shooter or game series in general. I'm part of the CE house, one of the few that loves just about every Halo game. That's probably because I played CE when I was so young (around 4) as a guy born in 2002 and played it almost exclusively because I didnt own Halo 2, until 2009 when I got Halo 3. I also wasnt given online privileges by my parents until the Xbox One dropped and I bought it in 2014. Because of my classic start but still being young when the newer games came out I wasn't so jaded to change. Halo Reach is probably my favorite because it feels like the perfect balance of classic and new. I love the older games more but I adored Halo 5 multiplayer and have about 2 weeks of playtime in it over the last 6 years. Just really wish everybody could see the value in every game the way I do cause I really think Halo fans are one of the biggest reasons to its decline in popularity.
@@willhammill3286 I think you summarised it pretty well! Halo fans are particularly attached to a specific version of 'Halo', so it's become difficult for 343 to properly evolve the series in the same way as another game franchise would. It's gotten to a point where a 'middle-ground' approach that combines the best parts of old and new Halo is seen as a bad thing. Luckily, people seem to like what they saw with Infinite's multiplayer showcase and I hope it can deliver when it releases.
@@paperbag1093 I think it's probably because it doesnt appear to have anything like armor lock or bloom which as a reach fan really pisses me off despite loving the game. Reach was controversial at launch but is remembered almost as fondly as the original trilogy at this point. Infinite really feels like a successor to 3 while toning down the mobility, which makes the old fans happy while keeping it modernized for new customers. Pretty genius.
@@willhammill3286 Wise words. It’s kind of ironic how one of the best aspects of Halo (its evolution and change) is also one of the reasons the community is so divided. I just hope one day the community can come together, forget the toxicity and just celebrate one of the best franchises in the world.
@@juanramirez7522 Agree with you there, man. Halo is easily the most fleshed out shooter in terms of lore, the world is just way too fun to not see value in it. Luckily Infinite appears to be taking the value of all of the games with a openness to new and old players. I'm fucking hyped.
loved this. People often forget that an entire new generation of Halo fans were brought up with games like 4 and 5. Obviously their frame of reference is going to differ quite a bit from people who started with CE or 3. The point about new players is so interesting because like you said, they often don't feel welcomed because they might like a certain style of Halo over the others. Like god forbid you even mention that you like sprint before the angry mob is at your doorstep. We need to understand that Halo is a 20 year old franchise that at this point has crossed generations. Its so tiring to hear old fans be so entitled and act like they own the franchise just because they were a part of it in the early days. It honestly turns a lot of people off. Some will say that the franchise started to die when Bungie left and 343 killed the franchise. I think that's not true at all. Its in part due to the community and everyone having a different view on what makes Halo...Halo. I love this franchise, been here from the very beginning but this community can both be so passionate and so hateful all at the same time. We need to give the newer generation a chance to speak up and allow their input to be heard. Their opinions matter just as much as the older ones. Awesome video man, loved this analysis. Its something that needs to be addressed more often. So much of the fault and blame is aimed at developers for the state of the franchise when I think the community needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and maybe consider they are also part of the problem. But those pills be too hard to swallow...
No, the new comers opinion really don't matter, and should never matter across any medium. There's a reason why there's a stigma against normies and casuals. They always ruin any cool, small, niche thing(SCP). Yes we are entitled to Halo, we made it one if the greatest franchises of all time, the newcomers have to play it on OUR terms, or not at all.
Cant Wait for the Comments like. "X is TERRIBLE, Y is Better" or "You are so stupid, why are you so wrong?" This series is great for the community and is showing many things that we dont really see.
With every passing second I spend in the Halo community, the more it reminds me of the Sonic community. To you, reader, this absolutely sounds stupid. “How could a community of whiny babies be comparable to us?” Let me tell you: -Recent failures seeding doubt in the future quality of the games, no matter how good they end up being. -“cautiously optimistic” is a term used way too often in both communities. -series started as the exclusive mascot of the loser of the console war, and innovated on an existing gameplay style, to the point where they created sub genres of their own -The series(s) has consistently split the fan base over story and gameplay -recently, both franchises have been prioritizing merchandise and “going back to their roots” -and finally, both have vocal minority groups, which make outsiders believe that every game in the series is bad If Halo Infinite ends up being “bad”, these comparisons will likely only become more pronounced.
I was there 3000 years ago... We had to carry our heavy CRT TVs around like little cavemen -only as strong as our weakest link. With the constant fear of dropping the damn thing. And when we got to the friend's house, we had to create space, manage cables, set up consoles. In the end everything had to be dismantled again.
From the sounds of it, infinite is doing a pretty good job at catering to all fans. I started with Halo 2 and then went to CE but while those were my entry to the series, I only played those locally and didn't get the whole live experience until Halo 3 which I played much more than the previous two, so realistically I should be considered in the Halo 3 house. I do have many strong opinions on Halo and much prefer the more classic play style (I have a 13+ hour playlist on why Halo 3 is the best Halo) but I'm also open to sandbox changes. This video was great, and it does put into perception how and why other houses feel the way they do. One thing that I strongly believe regarding Halo that you mentioned is that veteran players have a more important say in these issues, as they are the ones who compelled the series to greatness and understand what made the games so great in the first place; that is why I value the opinions of those in the Halo CE and Halo 2 houses more than mine, they understand what made the game so groundbreaking. I also think that there is a reason that Halo 3 fans feel so strongly about their game, it was just that good. Someone who is indifferent towards the game obviously did not have as much of an attachment, an attachment that only a game so good can give you.
I think the most interesting point you brought up is how hyper-averse to change some members of the community are. I can remember sitting on my dad's lap as a kid while he played CE and hearing him curse about not being able to move faster. But hey, it IS the internet after all, and having a different opinion is basically heretical. Time to found the new secular halo republic.
@@AscendHyperion change can be good or bad. Change shouldnt exist for the mere sake of change. It must serve a purpose. Alligators, sharks, turtles, and many species of fish and lizard have had insignificant change while other species evolved. They found their niche and owned it. Thats natural selection.
@@TheRoseReaper Ey, fellow Halo 2 person. Anyways, it's down to just how radically different 4 is from Halo CE, 2 and 3 which all have a similar fundamental formula. I think it's important to remember it's just a video game at a certain point, and if people are *genuinely* attacking you over just enjoying a video game that it's really not worth discussing it with them.
@@emilylefebvre646 A little rant here real quick: Honestly I don't understand why people are so violent when it comes to the core formula. Personally, I feel like that people ignore a lot of mistakes that Bungie has made (as someone in the comments pointed out) and they seem like they worship Bungie as much as a religious person would worship the Masiah. Did they do things that nobody else did? Yes they did I will not deny their talent. Did they make a lot of mistakes? Nobody is perfect, so of course they made mistakes. Hell, from what I understand, the powerfullness of the CE Pistol was a freak accident, they gave the illusion that you're doing more damage with dual wielding in 2 and 3 (2 guns in each arm means more power and less accuracy, not the other way around). Halo 3 the Flare is useless against AI from what I've played. And both of 2 and 3 had those god damn Jackal Snipers. They also weren't net coding geniuses so multiplayer was a bit on the wild side sometimes. I could go on and on and on about what they did what I believed to be wrong. 343i is no different. Did they make a lot of mistakes? Yes they did. Did people accept those mistakes and moved on? No. No they didn't. There was so much backlash on them it was not even funny. From Sprint, to the Load outs, anything and everything they could nitpick the fuck out of, they did it to an extreme. Sure they have the right to criticize, but my god I have never seen a community so... unhinged. They wanted 343i to reinvent the wheel with Halo 3. There should not be this much discourse over the fact you can sprint in a game where you play as a super soldier. From what I've seen, the Halo community big 3 as far as I've seen has gotten out of control and needs to knock down a couple pegs. Especially as far as I've understood, Halo 3 people.
@@TheRoseReaper I understand the sentiment, but I disagree with people getting super aggressive with people over mere opinions. The core formula for Halo is very fickle, and no reasonable person is arguing Bungie were absolutely perfect in everything they did, otherwise the massive shitstorm around Halo 3 competitively wouldn't have happened. At it's core, Halo used to be a fairly simplistic arena shooter, that got most of it's innovation outside of base traits (I.E. Sandbox, new vehicles, weapons, equipment, so on.) over base traits, which get more complex the more out there you get. Is that to say it's objectively bad to change the base formula? Of course not, but it does alienate a lot of people who prefer that simplistic base experience, which is perfectly valid! It's best not to contribute to the flame war long standing communities cause - far from a Halo exclusive trait.
I feel ya. Even tho I have started playing Halo with CE, I do have some very "controversial" opinions on halo. For instance the first time I saw master chief in Halo 2, my reaction was "What is this BS armor, can I get the one at CE back plz?". I also hate most aspects of Halo 3, it is the worst game in the franchise from my point of view (a lot of people will think that I need to go check on my mental health or something :P).
I’m just waiting for the hundreds of people who are about to arrive to whine about this video and hooking onto irrelevant information that essentially doesn’t actually challenge the points of this video.
You give deep and unique perspectives on Halo, I like it! It's really important for a community like ours to be inclusive regardless of people's perspective, as long as we don't put people down because they prefer a game that we might not have as a favorite.
And then this youtuber implied that everyone who uses a toggle to preserve the experience isn't worth keeping in the community, and disrespected everyone who disagrees with the idea of putting norse, greek, roman, dark age, and fantasy elements into game.
I thought it was amazing to see the 3 houses concept for the community. For myself starting on CE back in 03 and going all the way through to 5, it's so cool to see what most of the community opinions are without the nonsense. Can't wait for more and hope you continue to take a surveyors perspective on the community, especially when infinite comes out.
Same, brotha. I started with CE and, to a certain extent, I am more than welcome to change in the Halo franchise. The game needs to evolve in order to remain alive
I think it stems from halo 4 starting a lot of changes many felt unneeded at best, and unwanted at worse. From minor things to changing timeless visuals to overdesigned, assets that homogenized into a blur of seemingly stereotypically generic sci fi. To Changing gameplay elements to a point where things are almost unrecognizable to what was before. Plus the Narrative department from 343 was never something to write home about.
The hate comes from 343 changing things that didn't need to be changed (art style, sprint) and not changing what needed to be changed (re-using the purple Covenant).
I started with 3 and prefer Reach and also played quite a bit of 4, but in general I think sprint and overall movement needs to be a more important focus in design. It hasn't improved at all since 3.
The 343-made Halo games are fun, but they're not a clone of Halo 3. That's why people hate the games. Also, the people with a loud enough voice to be heard (UA-camrs, streamers, etc.) usually are those kinds of people.
@@alonsobabonso3423 "How Bungie would have continued the Halo series?" Just look at Halo 3 ODST and Halo Reach, clear predecessor of Destiny. Not saying that Destiny is bad. I'm saying that they wouldn't have made a "Halo 3.2", but a very different and modern game, just like Destiny. Nostalgia is both good and bad when it comes to memories. Being impartial becomes a challenge to everyone, especially to long-time fans. I understand this, but we all need to fight back and be more rational, in particular when we're dealing with social media like Twitter or forums.
I was one of those who just believed in the hate by the UA-camrs too (My first game was CE, and I got invested in that when I was 11 lol). Then when I actually played Halo 4, I was like damn. I love the game. The game is on par with Halo 2 in my opinion, not to mention just how beautiful it looks. (Although I don't like the new Covenant artstyle)
As somebody who was introduced to Halo with Reach and only got the full experience when I bought Halo 5, this video is exactly what I've been thinking about for a long time.
Really great video! I was surprised to see Halo CE had such a huge impact still in the community! It’s great to see! Great insight overall though, keep up the great work.
bro. this video is literally gold! I'm 24 and I've been an halo fan since halo ce, which was my first game. Ironically, after two games of my hate toward halo multiplayer, i found halo 5 to be a HUGE return to the classic halo level playing field, it resemble halo 2 to me!
So my first Halo I played was CE in 2012 (rocket slayer in prisoner with my dad and uncle). However, I became MOST invested with Halo 4. I received it as a Christmas present from a different uncle in 2013, and proceeded to fall in love with the story and local splitscreen. Over the next year, I played through CE and 2 the OG Xbox, and soon afterwards purchased CE anniversary and 3. 4 will always hold a special place in my heart.
Dude I share that same opinion with the soundtracks! The track 117 of the H4 ost is tied to the original Halo Theme as my favorite tracks of the entire series. And honestly, H4 had one of the best campaigns next to H2, so I'm with you with your opinion on H4!
@@StarWarsJibaro the song “To Galaxy” also hits very different. I would listen to it for hours while I sat in front of the TV customizing my character and preparing new local games with friends. Probably the best menu background track out of any FPS
@@AscendHyperion That makes sense, what I find interesting is the difference between that, and other franchises. Half-Life for example has very little controversy regarding it's sequels
My hypothesis for the disliking change data is this: Reach is defined by its uniqueness with respect to the franchise. To Reach house, deviation is good. To the CE house, the whole franchise is change, so change isnt so bad. However, H3 house came in at halos peak, indicating to them that their frame of reference is the best. That's why they believe H3 is the best and change from H3 is bad. Thoughts?
I think it's a good analogy. I think the h3 house is blinded ny themselves being the peak of the franchise though. change is necessary because it fuels creation from becoming a stagnant product. though if we consider halo 3 the "peak" of the franchise, all changes done in the future games should follow the formula halo 3 has followed before it. so examples are, if halo never had sprint, don't add it. if halo 3 added equipment, add more equipment and useful tools in future iterations. my point is, you have to analyze the change that led to halo 3 and evolve it in that direction if halo 3 was considered the highest of it's time. So that means if halo never changed base movement, don't add player abilities to the core movement. if halo has expanded on it's sandbox gradually since halo ce to 3, then add _more_ things to the sandbox. also let me clarify the meaning of "a sandbox" in relation to halo. a sandbox element is something that the player can interact with that is *not* tied to them as a trait, and *must* interact with outside of their own inherent abilities to use. i often see people misunderstanding the meaning of the term, them saying for example, "thrusters, spartan charge, and ground pound were the new things to explore in the sandbox for halo 5". Those are not sandbox elements. Reach's armor abilities fall into a gray area however. they are most of the time choosen on spawn in multiplayer, but can be found on the map in both campaign and multiplayer.
This is pretty good video and in my opinion talks about main issue in community. I been fan since halo 2 and I mostly like all of them (expect 5) but I see so much in fighting on which is the best
Halo 1-5 are all triple A title games. All just in a different era of the market and what people expected at the time. Although 343 made a big jump which most Halo fans weren't ready for. I know I wasn't ready for Halo 4's jump although I still enjoyed it a lot. I had my gripe with the game for sure. I never got to play 5 as that was when I switched over to PC and never looked back. Which sucks cause I've always wanted to own and play 5 so I could have a solid opinion on the game.
It’s cool that you did that analysis of the survey. It gave a really interesting perspective of the halo community. I hope to see more videos like this.
I agree that we (the Halo community) compare a lot and whine about the smallest mistakes we have to understand the 343 is trying to fill a big hole that bungie left behind And now with the releaseing of infinite I believe 343 is actually trying while some people whine about the graphics we should understand that they're actually rolled back so that the game is stable for the demo
I feel like 343i is and has done a lot to not only accommodate the fan base but also those interested in the franchise. That said, it's those whiney gatekeepers that just make it so hard for new players and the rest of us that are more open minded to changes.
It is unfortunate that Microsoft is forcing them to release it on the Xbox one as well as the series x. This will hurt the game the most as it is the platform for halo for the next 10 years - moving from series x gen into the next one whilst still needing to be compatible with Xbox one gen.
This video sets out to send the message that all fans' perspectives are valid. But, I feel you've sent the exact opposite message. By saying every Halo game is someone's first, and every frame of reference is equally valid to the franchise, so you shouldn't assert your perspective on what Halo should be, you're ironically telling every fan that their opinion of Halo doesn't matter at all, because their frame of reference conflicts with someone else's, and they should accept any changes in a new game because it COULD be someone's first, and their frame of reference. The logic here seems backwards; "the changes in a Halo game are by definition valid because it was somebody's first game, so you can't argue that those changes dilute what you come to the series for". Yes, some fans had a newer game as their first Halo, and thus is their "frame of reference". But at the same time, the fact that a game with controversial changes attracted, or can attract new fans, is in no way a good justification for alienating an already established audience. If we accept this mindset of "No matter how the franchise changes, all perspectives are equally valuable to the series' future", then we risk fracturing the series into a hundred subgenres, losing any semblance of identity, where no one is happy, because their frame of reference isn't being sufficiently catered to, ala, the Sonic series. The truth is, with the giant, fundamental changes newer Halo games have introduced, you can't please everyone. Halo has to pick a "frame of reference" to cater to. And while no one should be insulting or putting down one another, people are justified in arguing for what Halo should be in the future. If everyone's perspective matters equally, then what are newer Halo games supposed to do, exactly? A game that satisfies all perspectives is literally impossible. If we make a game that caters to one perspective, or make a game that is an entirely new thing to both perspectives, are they just supposed to accept it without question? If so, where do you draw the line of how much you have to change Halo before you're allowed to argue that said changes are bad? Do you see what I mean? I get your intention, which is to bring people together, but this mindset is fundamentally unpalatable to improving Halo, no matter what your frame of reference is.
Preface: Are you also the Ruby of Blue from Insta? Even if not, yo' people have been blowing up my comments talkin about your Halo Dual Wield Mod. Funny to get you in this neck of the woods haha. "This video sets out to send the message that all fans' perspectives are valid. But, I feel you've sent the exact opposite message" Okay so let's just sorta set our course here. The goal isn't to "validate" anyone. The goal is to express what factors may (probably are) influencing how people act outwardly about the franchise. I think I take care to not express agreement or defense of any opinion based items. I tackle a few misconceptions, like "Everyone hates Halo 5!" but that is to rectify misconception. I never say "halo 5 is a great game!". The 2nd paragraph continues the misunderstanding. Again, please understand my goal is just to get people thinking about how they form their opinions and how other people form theirs. "you can't please everyone. Halo has to pick a "frame of reference" to cater to" What an interesting assertion. I agree with the first part, "You cant please everyone". So who do you please? There are actually several very objective ways to answer this question. For example, Halo's player and community base is most heavily focused in the 17-24 age group. So if I was a number cruncher at 343, Id just say "Make the game for the people who will be in this age range between the years 2020-2025. Very mechanical. Very clean. Is it fair? Well, ask people ages 13-16 and 25+ haha. My point is that this issue has no simple answer and for a long time, we've pretended the answer was right in front of us. If anything, this video should help people understand that building a game for 3 generations of assumedly equal generations of fans aint as easy as just saying it's easy. Again, the 2nd to last and last paragraphs continue to misunderstand the point of this video. I don't claim to, and will never claim to have the right answer to those questions. Nobody ever should. My goal is to show you when you start asking these questions, and then you peek outside your own biases, your own desires, fears and the likes, it gets real hard to see an answer; especially if when you look outside your own window you're looking at the windows of others. I dont claim to have the right answer. But I'll gladly assert any one person who thinks their answer is the one true answer is full of themselves, and need to mature their world view. Hopefully that helped!
@@AscendHyperion If I'm not mistaken, the statement "I don't claim to, and will never claim to have the right answer to those questions. Nobody ever should." is saying that no one should claim that any one path that Halo takes is going to satisfy everyone, which is true, and I have said as much here. But most people who advocate for Halo to improve past the last decade, do not claim that *literally everyone* will be satisfied by Halo going in a certain direction, and I feel that is a strawman which this video's premise is built upon. We understand that certain segments of fans will be left behind no matter where Halo goes. So with that said, when it comes to deciding where Halo goes, I think you are massively overcomplicating things for fear of stepping on people's perceptions of Halo. The reason you think what should be done with Halo is so difficult to answer, is because you are giving equal value to every fan's frame of reference. But I don't think there is enough of a justification to do so. The biggest point is: the changes in the newer games that may be part of newer fans' frame of reference, are such that they alienated the significantly larger, already established audience, at the peak of the franchise's success and popularity. Your data shows that no one Halo game is hated by the majority, and you use this as one of the reasons to why finding an answer to where Halo should go is so difficult. I see two issues with this: One, it doesn't take into account all of the fans Halo has lost the last decade, as Two: You cannot deny that Reach, but especially Halos 4 and 5 are more divisive among the established fan base than their predecessors. Like I said, in context of the changes Halo has made, you cannot please everybody. So you have to choose a direction to take with the series, even if it means disappointing a segment of fans. With all that I've laid out, in this instance, why would you not return to the general style of the three most similar games, which are the most highly regarded in the series, which made the series so popular in the first place, which also happen to be where the largest majority of fans started from? This approach of returning to your roots and pleasing the long time fans has time and time again been a winning ticket for struggling franchises; Resident Evil returning to survival horror, Sonic returning to its 2D gameplay roots with Sonic Mania, Doom making a giant come back in 2016. All of which were series whose old games' styles were deemed 'dated'. I see no reason why it should be different for Halo.
That is how someone can form an answer to the question you're struggling with. I am not claiming it is the "one true answer", and a small segment of fans will be potentially disappointed. But people can argue for why a certain path is the series' best bet, and that is valid.
In b4 DC, Marvel, Transformers, Star Wars and 40k have been doing this for years. A healthy IP is a versatile IP. Claiming that there is only one definitive interpretation of an IP or franchise is whinny and stupid.
11:01 This kind of stuff is nothing new, much less to the Halo community. Transformers has the Geewuuners, Megaman has the guys that hate Megaman X, and the Star Wars movies have the OT purists. What is important though, is that they were never the main voices in the community., like in Halo. And that kind of onesided discourse has lead to the community's current form where next to no one wants to break in and get involved because all anyone does is bitch and complain about how everything is broken all the time. It's a massive turnoff, and part of the reason why MCC is having a hard time breaking into the mainline Steam community. Hell, people are digging up the Gearbox port from 2003 to complain about now, like anyone can do anything to fix it. There is no resolving this problem aside from excising this kind of discourse and moving on. And part of that means taking down the old games, and dissolving some of the nostalgic haze that surrounds them. A bit of an anecdote, but my parents are uber nerds. My mom is an X Men Superfan and my dad collected comics, martial arts movies, and is a massive Doom fanboy. So, when I was growing up, I had a lot of exposure to these franchises. And one thing that they didn't push was that their versions of these franchises were the "true" verison. Even though my dad was old enough to remember when the original Spiderman comic book came out, he didn't say that the Raimi Movies, "Ultimate Spiderman" comics or the 90s Spiderman show were "not Spiderman". My mom didn't saay the '04 X-Men movies weren't X-Men. They took it in stride that they had grown up, and that it was only natural that these franchises change to fit with new times and new audiences. I grew up with all kinds of different interpretations of characters, so I never really nailed down a singular movie or story that I have nostalgia for (Aisde from the Star Wars OT, the Transformers movie from 1986 and the Raimi series ;) ). I considered every version of Spiderman or Superman as Spiderman and Superman, and I loved Spiderman and Superman. So it was never that big of a deal when they had a new actor, or a new director or changed the desgin of the suit. What was importat, was that the thing in question was fun and enjoyable. The nostalgia people have towards classic Halo is understandable, yet I think we can agree that it's wholly selfish to say that the new kids can't have their turn with the toys. Which is exactly what it is when you strip away the veneer of professionalism and overbloated reddit posts.
I identify with the Halo Reach house. However, Halo 3 would be a very close second. While I mostly agree every players' opinion being equal, the one big view advantage veterans have over new players is seeing the evolution of the franchise for better or for worse. Halo 3 sold near 15 million copies in its lifetime. Clearly, that game was something very special and had so much going for it. While I appreciate 343's efforts in certain areas of the series and Halo 5 had some impressive and very fun ideas, they don't have the skillset yet to create a retro-esque OR vibrant new Halo experience of their own. It's a very gray line that they just haven't been able to quite cross yet.
House CE. i am in favour of a mix of halo 3, 5 and reach multiplayer gameplay, with a more halo 3-esque balancing, 5's and reach pistol mixed, multi use equipement, halo 3 mlg speed, slightly higher jump height and toned down halo 5 thruster pack.
House 3 but my fave has always been Reach. I think this would be a much better approach. I agree in that It would make sense to not have any advanced movement increase their speed so much and have base movement close to 3. after all, spartans are quite heavy lol
CE/3/Reach hybrid house (I technically played CE first, but only really shot at walls, yet I still respect it heavily for making the modern console FPS. 3 was the first campaign I beat, and MP I played. Reach was the first I owned, my favorite, the one I played the most, and the first one I went above easy difficulty, where I got gud as it were) I dislike Halo 4 and 5 a lot, sprint outside of armor abilities screws with the game, and they pander to CoD fans imo. I enjoyed Halo 4, but I couldn’t enjoy it as a Halo game, Halo 5 looks like much of the same, and I refuse to download a single game that’s 100+GB. One thing they definite did right was Mythic Slayer in Halo 5, thrusters with no sprint, ground pound, or charge. I would be perfectly fine if this became the standard. Shortly after Halo 4, I lamented how Sprint went from an armor ability to an inherent ability, and not evade. A dodge button would be much more interesting for the gameplay than a sprint button, and I’d also be fine with a straight up double jump. I would also be fine if sprint became an armor ability again, it would force the decision between horizontal mobility, or vertical mobility with the jet pack.
Freaking amazing video. Halo 3 was my favorite multiplayer for sure, but I love every Halo multiplayer BECAUSE of their individuality. Every decent parent loves all of their children. But every parent has a favorite kid...
As someone who started playing halo in 2015 with Halo:CE Custom Edition, I can relate to some of the points here. When I think of Halo I literally think about the magnum and it is a point of comparison for me for other halo titles. All an all, this was a great analysis. You've got my subscription.
Man, you're banging out quality video after quality video. Keep up the amazing work. This really opened my eyes to not only the community's biases, but my own biases as well. Halo CE was my entry title, but I prefer 3's multiplayer. I don't have a strong distaste towards any Halo multiplayer, even 5. Halo 5 is a lot of fun when you use the abilities given to you in custom games like jenga or super spartan smash. It puts player agency at the forefront and makes you feel powerful, like a true supersoldier. I have my own gripes with the multiplayer, such as how unforgiving some engagements can be, given that you can escape easier. I also have different views on sprint, and at some points I remember being toxic towards people that preferred Halo 5's multiplayer over others. You've really put these things into perspective for me. So thank you. Keep up the good work man.
YES!!! - I was hoping, after answering your poll questions, that you might learn exactly THIS! ...Halo is for everyone. Nobody should talk down another halo fan, simply because they love halo differently than you do. Very happy to see how you presented this "Good News" about halo as a whole. *Great Vid! Cheers, homeslice!
At the end of the day Halo 3 had the most people from which to gain a frame of reference, simply due to sales and player retention. The fact that 3’s fandom views the game so highly just speaks to how good of a time it was to get into Halo. We all just want to see the game return to that former glory and subsequent games that deviated simply haven’t performed as well for whatever reason. I don’t think Halo has had a better title since Halo 3 and I’ll die on that fuckin hill. Don’t care if I’m the stereotype.
THIS! You're speaking facts man, we haven't had a successful halo game on a level like 3. There is a reason people on mcc on all platforms mainly touch 2 or 3, because at the end of the day they are considered the most beloved. Halo Reach despite being the start of the downfall is still more of a halo game I would enjoy moreso then 4 and 5. We've been giving constructive feedback and criticism for a whole decade out of love for this franchise, yet 343 are still too stubborn to understand that most of this community never asked for sprint, advanced mobility, grenade indicators, hitmarkers, hitscan or any other gimmick other shooters have. Ever since their inclusion halo was stripped of its identity in order to cater to fans of other fps titles and in doing so brought those fans into this community in droves to where over the years have grown in size where their voices are now heard just as much as us classic fans, and because of this 343 now have further justification to continue down this path with tarnishing halos legacy. We've been pushing for a true return to form before these nu fans came in and now want to silence our voices on all forums and blog discussions so yeah, of course we classic fans are fed up with being nice, it hasn't gotten us anywhere so if they want to sling shit at us we will very much do the same. 343 could've been heroes, they could've based their titles off of the gameplay from halo 1-3 but instead expanded on the foundation that reach layed out. Back then if we knew the future of halo would be like this, we wouldn't want a future for halo after reach.
@@davidkardan3435 honestly the worst part is that nobody takes the opinions of a classic fan seriously, like we view the Bungie games with rose tinted boomer-brains. It reminds me of the Star Wars fandom, but somehow more dismissive, and unknowledgeable. Its like if prequel fans hated the original trilogy simply because of technical limitations and a lack of sfx. Its that stupid. “I don’t see how sprint really affects gameplay” “I think clamber is a good mechanic because it lets less skilled players have more mobility” “The enhanced mobility is balanced and allows for more options in a situation”. These people don’t know what the fuck they’re asking for. They just want all of their comfy hand holding controls and mechanics from all their other favorite McDonald shooters. I’m just pissed that Halo even bothered attracting retards like that to the franchise.
The video was super interesting and i can really relate to the H3 Fans being more aggresive towards change (A lot of my friends are H3 die hard fans) but where did u get the data from?
The data is use in this series is the result of me conducting several studies on the Halo community over the past few months. I distributed a series of polls across the halo community and used the result of several thousand inputs to build my conclusions.
The issue is that the gameplay changes that later titles made to the Halo formula drove people from the Halo 3 Community away. Halo lost it's dominance as THE console shooter on account of them, so anyone still around from Halo 3 is playing Halo as a "radical" fan due to radical love for the franchise. This skews the data to make it seem like the "house of classic Halo" doesn't dwarf the "house of modern Halo" because the people who might have voted for classic Halo are no longer engaged in the community.
I’m a new halo player (got into it on mcc pc) and oh boy do i feel like an outsider when i see the reddit. I’m actually scared to share my opinion (that i find h2a mp miles better than h3)
Interesting! As a long time fan it's the reverse for me, I feel so naked in H2A's MP, which is probably down to the fact that I don't play many FPS games outside of Halo, Half-Life and Valve's other titles. Halo 2 and 3 in particular newcomers are going to have a lot of trouble with, as it's mostly populated with veteran players who absolutely know what they're doing! Ironically I'd recommend giving the ranked playlists a try, where you're specifically matched with newer players. Also, some Halo 3 tips for newcomers: ---------------------------------------------------- Diversify your weapons, the BR is not the be all end all in Halo 3. Explore the maps in forge, and keep track of the weapon spawns! (Also note map tropes, and other patterns in the design.) Unless you're using a precision weapon (BR, Carbine, Magnum, Beam Rifle and Sniper) don't bother aiming for the head, unless a weapon is specifically designed to be headshot capable, you'll get no bonus damage hitting specific body parts. Take advantage of support weapons, like the Plasma Rifle and Plasma Pistol! (Take down a crowd's shields with the PR, EMP vehicles with the PP, so on!) ---------------------------------------------------- I hope these help you enjoy the game more!
As a huge fan and proponent of the classic game/gameplay I actually like h2a multiplayer. I find it much closer to the classic games than reach, 4 or 5 and imo if reach, 4 or 5 had had something similar to it then the franchise would not be in the state it currently is in.
I think another big factor as to why people insist the new games are bad is because they view 343 as an outsider that they didn't ask for. Halo reach changed so much about the series from story telling to gameplay to art style, but it was Bungie making the changes to their own franchise so people were fine with it. Anything 343 does differently is viewed as a change made by someone unwanted, who wasn't there from the start. Or at least, that's how many people view it.
This is probably the very first video not only I agree, but I also feel extremely connected. Spitting facts and saying important things related to the community. In a sense, I think that 343 probably had a similar group of datas and they're trying to satisfy most of the request of everyone while doing something new on Infinite. I mean... I just think about producing this game, and dealing with everyone's opinion. I'd be insane in just a sole week. We probably don't realize the effort to realize a game thought for literally everyone. And obviously, not everyone will be satisfied, but I think they're trying their best to get most of the votes.
I actually disagree, with Infinite it looks more so like they're trying to start from scratch with a younger crowd, trying to satisfy everyone just isn't a realistic goal - from an economic stand point it just makes sense to target a wider, younger and more open demographic than to stick to the pre-existing Halo fanbase. I think more 343 fans are more accepting to core gameplay changes, though, and it mostly comes down to how radically different 4 and 5 are to each other, when compared to CE, 2 and 3. That's my take on it anyways!
Thanks for the video man, this was very informative for me. I was a die-hard Halo CE fan who was so put off by the lore of Halo 2 that I really stopped following Halo news. Even Halo 3, which to me was an A-tier game, was only enough to pull me in as a casual fan again since I was no longer interested in the story. With the hype of release around Infinite though, I started catching up on the other Halo games I missed out on with the MCC collection. I was totally ignorant on the ways on which the community developed after Halo 2, so this was fascinating to me. Personally, I found out Halo 2 is really the only Halo game I have a problem with. CE is the GOAT but outdated, 3 is good, and Reach is great, so I guess I could fit in all 3 main houses. I'm fine with the franchise taking a more Reach-centric approach in the future though: I would vastly prefer that the Halo franchise evolve into a more militaristic sci-fi story than the grand fantasy space-opera that some of the games have tried to move the franchise in. That's just my two cents though.
Unpopular opinion: Halo 5's multiplayer is my favorite out of them. It's campaign story can go die in a fire, but hey, the multiplayer is bomb! Halo 4, alternatively, had my favorite campaign. Halo CE was my second favorite story because while the cast was small and the combat was too stretched out, you see a lot more characterization from Chief. I still think that moment when Cortana teleports him upside down and he falls, only to knock himself on the helmet to stop her rambling is really funny.
The fact that we have someone like you at Halo Headquarters is honestly a dream. The quality of your vids is impressive and I want to thank you for putting so much passion into what you do. Thank you bro
I know i’m late, but this may be the best video about the halo comunity out there. At the end of the day halo is halo, we all prefer one of them, but they all are awesome in some aspects
First halo I played was CE, but the one where I got engaged was Halo 3 since. Well I think that Halo 3 multiplayer was awesome and great. My true favorite is Halo 5s multiplayer. However every game has their ups and downs in terms of campaign and multiplayer. However I am 'younger' Halo fan, only being 18. Meaning the franchise is a year older than I am.
Despite falling in love with the series since Halo 3 and my views are fairly similar, my overall views changed a lot over the years and it kind of blended aspects from CE and Reach to a lesser extent from sandboxes, enemy design, level design, artistic design, multiplayer, views of customisation and music tastes. I think the biggest difference is how I approach different opinions during the past few years, I understand why certain fans prefer certain games by their overall experience and even though I disagree with a lot of fans and had vastly different experiences, but I can live with that and understand that I like what I like and they like what they like. I think what helped was ditching most of the Fallout fanbase and became far more chilled out and positive since abandoning arguably one of the most negative and hostile fanbases out there.
6:53 This is confounded by the fact that, while many people would say that Halo 5 had the worst multiplayer, they would also be the same ones to say that Halo 5 Customs Browser was one of the best multiplayer experiences/features offered by Halo in a long while. I happen to be one of those people. That number, therefore, does not objectively speak to how respondents felt about the multiplayer mechanics themselves compared to other Halo titles
Let's be honest, people who say that their opinion matter more because they have been more time with the franchise are egotistical and only harm the franchise
Not necessarily. Halo Reach is my favourite even though I started with 3, but it made a lot of mistakes that could have probably been avoided by placing more value on voices like that. The vast majority of people have a pretty flimsy sense of how games are balanced, to the point that different weapon sounds will make people think the damage is better. The consensus isn't the consensus because its right, its just what people happen to think.
@@TheUnchosenOne no he’s right it will only negatively effect the game just look at how people bashed halo 5 now 343 is probably afraid that if they mess up halo infinite it will kill the franchise, too me it’s mainly just the nostalgia baby elitists fault, they believe nothing else matters but they’re nostalgia high. there’s categories i made for it. 1st you got the halo og fans who hate 343 for they’re changes but say they give constructive criticism when in reality they just want everything to remain the same like the older titles. 2nd there’s only some halo og fans who enjoyed the newer titles and adapted to it’s different playstyle rather than shitting on it for being different, these guys mostly likely played all the titles and just played and criticism when it’s needed and not in a negative manner. Then there’s the new audience who came in and probably started playing the newer titles and eventually started playing the older titles and enjoyed them all equally but catered more to the faster play style that is the newer titles. to me that’s how I see, you’re either one of those three categories. i fit within the 2nd category having played all the halos since i was a little wee one, halo 3 being my most favorite, and halo 5’s multiplayer and forge being my most favorite out of the bunch
I don't disagree, but I also don't agree either. I'm from the Halo 2 house, but I've really enjoyed all of the games (Halo 4 multiplayer is actually really fun imo, more so than Reach which I've played countless hours of). But I do think that while opinions of the older houses are not more valid, they still need to be heard. My concept of quintessential Halo is much different to those of Halo Reach, 4, 5, and even CE fans. But I think that older houses have some valid criticisms of the newer games, and have a right to prefer their style of Halo and to want Infinite to represent that Halo feeling to some extent. But yeah, calling the newer games garbage and calling their fans garbage is definitely uncalled for.
not really related to your studies but here's some food for thought: with each halo released there was always some tech breakthrough and a major mode added. Halo 2 added XBL multiplayer, Halo 3 added Forge, Reach added Firefight, etc. In addition to next gen specs and art style, we were always able to see graphical improvement up until Halo 4 - 5, which looked super similar compared to progression of other games. like i said, this is off topic but i'm sure there's some type of correlation b/w what i said and why each house feels their's is the best if not for nostalgic reasons, as well as the collective entitlement our community has. good video, definitely subbed!
I've stepped out of the community overall due to the "toxic" H3 fans. I'm a mildly unique case, as I entered into Halo with 2 (mostly played co-op), then played H3 multi-player for years before the playerbase (that I of course interacted with) made me sick of the whole scene, especially ince Reach rolled in as my favorite of the franchise from a multiplayet perspective. Point being is- the different houses (especially some.of the older camps imo) have only ever wanted to dominate the overall voices and opinions of the franchise. Which is a very human thing to do that I can't blame em for. Even with Reach as my favorite in the multi-player department, I am quick to be like "okay no but this is ENOUGH change- we shouldn't drift any further from how Halo 1-3 established."
@@CommentedHere0 It will be nothing like reach besides customization. There will be no armor abilities like reach only pick ups. It will be more like halo 3 but with modern pick ups and sprint.
Halo has been my primary FPS since the release of CE. I guess I go against the norm of those who took your test because I think Halo 5’s gameplay is by far the most enjoyable today.
Actually, the Halo CE group actually provided a very hyperbolic response to Halo 5. It was either respondents either viewed the multiplayer Strongly Negative or Strongly Positive. It just so happened that Halo CE House made up 40% of the total string dislike of Halo 5
@@dream8870 he literally said nothing of the sort. CE fans had the most dislike of 5, but also the strongest liking if it, too. I think you're just trying to confirm your biases.
I just think all games are good in different ways so if you don’t like a game please don’t just go around and hate on other halo games/fans who other likings.
I can guarantee that I'm an out liar in your research 😆 I started properly with Halo Reach, having watched my brother play 1 and 2 and a bit of 3. I enjoyed Reach, but going back I fell in love with CE and 2. They're my joint favourite. I'm of the opinion that Master Chief didn't sprint in classic titles because his augmentations and armour allowed him to run at maximum speed at all times. Same thing with bloom, I think the armour allows him to remain 100% accurate at all times. The MK-VB used in Reach is stated as being a less advanced power armour developed by ONI as a budget alternative. I take those mechanics in Reach as narrative elements bleeding over to gameplay. I think CE is a master piece with very few flaws. Halo 2 is CE suped up. Cooler story, cooler gameplay and dual wielding is awesome. I think every halo should have the CE magnum. I prefer the assault rifle to have 60 rounds and be an inaccurate beast. Though I think 343 misunderstood Bungies reasons for changing the gameplay in Reach, I do enjoy 4. Artstyle aside, 4 is very fun when not played on legendary. I think the SAW and DMR are redundant in however. Remove them and make the assault rifle behave like the SAW and the magnum like the DMR. Then we've instantly got the CE sandbox keystones. Though I think 4 has problems, I think it's a worthy addition to the franchise and prefer it over 3. I don't really like 3. The weapons feel weak, the brutes are push overs and Master Chief feels like he swapped his armour plates out for tissue paper. I played five seconds of multiplayer in 5 and was like this isn't Halo. ADS has no place in Halo because of reasons I stated, armour abilities are too in your face, clamber combined with sprint ruins Halos traversal. 5 may very well be a good game, I just don't think it's very Halo. I play Halo for Halo. Over all, I think 343 should look at CE every time they start a Halo project. Infinite campaign looks good to me. Disappointed sprint is back. They need to add the CE counterparts of the assault rifle and magnum but it still looks good. Possibly they could add an armour ability that allows dual wielding. Like it's an add on to the suit that assists in cognitive target allocation at the cost of sprint. It could feel like using the Smart Gun from Aliens VS. Predator in campaign. See I think they could explain these things concerning armour abilities if they just say this new power armour is designed to be modular for other advantages. So that certain aspects of the series like dual wielding, elimination of recoil, constantly moving at top speed etc. Are abilities that are blocked by hardware limitations of the suit and Spartans require a proprietary hardware upgrade (an armour ability) to unlock that aspect of the software of the suit. I found the moment in 4 interesting when Cortana uses Chiefs shields to overload the Ghosts boost. Perhaps at certain points in the campaign like boss fights or extended firefights, Master Chief can find a temporary Forerunner power up that bypasses the Power Armours hardware limitations and allows for increased mobility, higher jumping, no bloom, dual wielding, no need for ADS etc. effectively giving the feeling of playing Halo 2! At the cost of shield strength or other limitation? Then we could have special multiplayer modes and firefight game modes that use this ability, so Infinite can balance both of the Halo fan bases niches at once!
With the sprint debacle, you're actually correct! Chief's max move speed *is* just him running at a full sprint, the only difference between the classic trilogy and the two reclaimer titles has to do with the limitations of that full movement speed. The problem is that Halo is inherently designed around map control and high time to kills, which flies in the face of the traditional twitch shooter sprint mechanic imo. Also, one thing to add onto your comments on Halo 3: Master Chief is statistically stronger over Halo 2, it's a minor change, but I find your perspective interesting as most people consider Halo 2 to be the more unforgiving of the bunch.
I was a middle boi. I started with Reach and my first live experience was 4, but I went back and played all the games in full. My favorite games are 3, Reach, ODST and 4, but I appreciate the value that each and every game brought to the table. CE defined the franchise, 2 had arguably the best story, 3 closed the trilogy with a bang, was the best balanced, and had the best multiplayer experience, ODST showed a different side of the war and fleshed out the ODSTs as well as an awesome new style of campaign, Reach had the best customization as well as an incredible campaign that shifted the tone a bit, as well as dramatically improving the forge, Halo 4 again shifted the tone and had the most personal story, Halo 5 had an incredible multiplayer and forge mode. Infinite will hopefully pull together the best elements of all these 20 years of work that 343 and Bungie created. I feel most at home playing Reach, but I love *Halo*. That's why I'm trying to get all 700 achievements on MCC before Infinite releases, no matter how much PTSD CE and 2 will give me 😂
I'm in the halo CE house, but I try to enjoy every halo game for what it is. In my opinion, every halo game is drastically different from one another, yet they all still FEEL like halo. If a halo game stays true to that halo feeling, then I enjoy it. Every halo game has maintained that halo feel, and that's what I love about this franchise, there is plenty of wiggle room for new additions or changes.
I actually really like how you structured this video, man. But I have to list out a key few flaws I found in it before I get to my favorite parts, let's start with the Houses. The Flaws: #1: I'd have to say Halo fans fall into 3 Houses, yes, but not the ones you list. From my experience I've seen three houses such as the "Original" Trilogy fans, the "Prequel" fans, and the "Sequel" Fans, do these groups sound familiar? because they should, let's go house by house to explain who they are and how they operate. Original Trilogy Fans: These guys are the people who swear by their lord and savior bungie that Halo was only good back when Bungie made it and they hate 343i with all their hearts, no I'm kidding here, these guys are typically really cool but a vocal minority of them are really toxic and hate 343i. Prequel Fans: These are the guys who like to branch out, these guys play all the RTS games like Halo Wars, Spartan Strike, Spartan Assault, but they can also be found playing Halo 3: ODST and Halo: Reach and even Halo 4. These guys are my group and while I'm biased I'd like to say they are the most accepting of change and love the direction Halo is going in. Sequel Fans: These are the new guys on the block, typically guys who just came from COD or Titanfall and like the newer games like Halo 5 and Halo 4, Original Trilogy Fans typically disagree with them a lot but these guys get along well with Prequel Fans quite a bit because they are also welcoming of change and are capable of accepting the flaws of previous games and with their own games. Overall, I'm a Prequel boy. #2: This one doesn't need subheadings because it's just a small nitpick and the last on the flaws list, I feel like the topics you discussed could have been furtherly talked on maybe in a Part 2 Video describing things such as Playable Elites and new mechanics and why old and new fans would like or hate them, this could have been a really good way to open eyes of people who swear up and down Halo was only good when Bungie made it. The Beauty: #1: I LOVED how you used smooth transitions in the video to make swapping from polling and gameplay feel natural and nice, as well as when talking about a specific group of gamers on the Halo Spectrum you played the games you were identifying in the background. #2: I think this video was a really good wakeup call for many fans to try to take a step back and take another look at older and newer games and identify why they didn't like those games in a civil way. #3: there is no number 3, your memes, hand them over, now. Hope this helps, have a great day, Ascend!
My Halo frame of reference? That would be Halo 2. It was the very first game that when I finished the main campaign I immediately started it over from the beginning. Never in my life did I replay a game as soon as I finished it before Halo 2 and I honestly don't remember doing that after with any other game to this date. That game was that good. Haunting how it stuck with me. I literally set through the credits dumbfounded at what I just became a part of. It simply felt natural to restart the game from the beginning as soon as the credits ended.
The first Halo I played was Halo 2 back before I was old enough to fully appreciate the game. It wasn't until Halo Reach that I started to fall in love with the franchise. I never really thought of the community being separated into three houses, but it definitely makes sense. The breakdown of the three houses has made me realize my own bias towards my thoughts on Halo. Bottom line is that I love this franchise. Halo: CE to Halo 5, I have enjoyed and appreciated them in there own way. I am excited to see how Halo Infinite will be.
This was very refreshing to watch after looking at some of the discussions on halo waypoint. Very objective and accurate at describing some of the biggest and most self destructive issues of the Halo community.
My group of players are mainly PC CE fans. I came in from XBox and I'm the only one who has played every single Halo game. They're very attached to CE and in other Halo games will still use the magnum like it's the god tier weapon it used to be. We've come up with a sort of... strategy, where the release of Infinite comes a new slate for us. A clear and new picture of what Halo is for us. Regardless of what house you belong to, there are clear positives and clear negatives to every Halo game and Halo needs to change and grow. Infinite should be what it's trying to be, a soft reboot. But not just for the series, but for the community too. And the content creators need to let new people in. So many content creators are so toxic and refuse to change their views on anything to a point where they just say "this doesn't belong in Halo." Without giving any kind of reasoning behind it. We all need to clear our heads of what Halo used to be and move on with what Halo can be.
I have difficulty categorizing myself in one house, both because it's not quite clear which game I first "invested" in, and because my loyalties stretch across games. I would like to think that that means I have less bias, buuut I'm not narcissistic enough to think I overcome bias easier than others. I did notice that I didn't like watching this video, despite the fact that I enjoy learning statistics like these and I pride myself on RELATIVE objectivity. I think this is because I have a subconscious desire to suppress ideas that conflict with the (admittedly loosely-defined) "classic" style. Course, I wouldn't normally admit that, but my conscious self recognizes that it's wrong to try and hide new ideas, and that the just way to defeat them is with reason. As a concrete example of my feelings, I would be irritated by someone arguing in favor of sprint, but I would be outwardly polite to them. Ultimately, bias is unavoidable. The message I gleaned from this video is that we all have biases, and that we need to recognize them and give everyone's opinions a fair shot. I would reinforce that bias doesn't inherently destroy a person's credibility, and that arguing for your biases is okay and even preferred - so long as those arguments are conducted with respect.
Coming in a bit late, but as someone who's entry was Halo 3, I have always thought of each game as their own thing. Similar to how each pokemon game's mechanics vary and alter the meta, the same thing happens to Halo. Each game had a varied idea of what the player should be doing in a fight and I even ended up liking Halo 5 MP at it's core despite the other issues I had with it. I always liked how the franchise was open to experimentation and I wasn't too involved with the community. I rarely heard such charged opinions.
I’m personally a reach kid and always have been but looking this it definitely just supports what I’ve kinda thought and definitely think that this one the main problems halo had for years. I think it’s time to move on and no one really gets to say which halo is the best halo cuz there good in there own ways and it really only matters what you personally think is you’re favourite halo
Well, the first hall game I ever played was Reach at a friend's house, and then it was the only one I interacted with until I got my own Xbox years later. By then, the title I bought was Halo 4. I like all of them, though. Each one is fun in it's own right -- and I think people ate just causing trouble being so aggressive, because I think the next versions will be fun no matter (mostly) what art style they use or how they balance everything. And a fun fact, my eldest sister worked on CE! I had no idea until only a couple years ago. Happy holidays!
I came into Halo with CE. Halo 3 was my high school game so I definitely spent the most time with that. I spose I'll just give my quick opinion on each multiplayer. Halo CE: sucks from a competitive standpoint, but a mess around LAN party is a ton of fun, I'd personally give it a 6/10. Halo 2: too many button combinations and too much of a skill gap for it to be as fun for me. LAN once again is fantastic, but competitive is too difficult to break into. 7/10. Halo 3: like I said, this is the game I spent the most time with so I might have some bias. This game didn't have many exploits, so I feel like just about anyone can get into the competitive scene without the veterans being TOO good to even give you a chance. Movement is slow, but methodical. 9/10. Halo Reach: not a fan of bloom, but I don't hate armor abilities. Competitive is probably on the same level as halo 3 to break into and LAN is even more fun now with the forge tools that were refined upon. 9/10. Halo 4: my personal least favorite out of all the games. I just didn't like the mechanics of this game at all. That being said, the multiplayer isn't that hard to get into and be good at. I don't have as many good memories with custom games or LAN at this point because this game caused a major falling out in my generation of friends and peers. The forge tools were great, but nobody wanted to play because of the mechanics. 6/10. Halo 5: I think this game has a pretty high skill gap because of all of the advanced movement. Do I hate the advanced movement? Not necessarily. I actually really enjoy playing halo 5s multiplayer. It feels pretty fantastic to play and I don't have many bad memories of it. The forge gave my friends and I some pretty awesome custom games to play. 8/10. I have a lot more opinions and thoughts on each, but this comment has gone on long enough. My closing statement has to be that my bias and distaste for newer games has dropped as I've gotten older. Each game brings something to the table that I can enjoy, I just have to be more open-minded.
I'm actually more interested in perception on campaign. I started with Halo CE and I know a lot of people from my frame of reference really disliked the story of 343i's games and I'm curious how that stacks against others.
between halo 2 and 3 is when i got really invested but honestly i want a mix between halo ce, 2, 3, and reach because its literally impossible for me to decide my favorite of the 4
my entery and favorite halo is CE but my favorite multiplayer is from H5 and favorite mission from H2, im glad we have so many different halo experiences in the franchise
I played halo 3-4 campaign i loved them. I started with halo 3, then I played halo 4, then CE, then reach, then 2, then 2 anniversary. Finishing with 5. My favorite multi-player zand boxes are Halo reach and 5. I love the mechanics. My league favorite is halo 2, due to it being almost silent from afar. But thats on swat game mode. 3 I'm neutral with since I played it with my family a lot. Thats my stand as a halo multi-player
The story of the Three Houses of Halo continues with you. Follow me on Twitter and join my Discord, both linked!
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Is the Three Houses thing in reference to Fire Emblem? If so, did you play the game and what was your favorite route?
The Halo 3 house disliking change is one of the most accurate things I've ever heard
Yeah, change, not evolution. Halo 1-3 evolve off of one another, 4 and 5 outright change. I should also note that I started with CE.
@@Slender_Man_186 dude they all change. You just happen to like 2's and 3's changes more than 4's and 5's.
(for reference I started with with 5 and kinda Reach)
@@Zeta4 Halo 2 and 3 evolved off of CE, and there’s a big difference between evolving and outright changing. Also, 2 is easily my least favorite of the Bungie games due to the screwy balance, I can appreciate the development hell the dev team went through, but it really shows that they restarted development mid-way through. 4 and 5 completely threw away the arena shooter gameplay the series was known for in it’s numbered releases, they tried to compete with CoD in the sprint based arcade shooter market and they failed, before Halo wasn’t even in competition with CoD.
@@marcinski3387 thank you!
@@Zeta4 I mean honestly starting at 5 will defiantly cause a disconnect with what everyone else is feeling. I still dont think change is bad, and your right 2 and 3 changes alot. The only evolving was in 3 because if you want to brutally honest, 3 is just more of 2 but with some things improved on it. But the difference in 343s cases is that most of the changes just universally wernt good, and sort of crapped in the face of long time fans almost like they were going out of their way to piss them off. Change is necessary but not when that change sets out to destroy more then it builds. That's why Reach is my favorite in the series. People can moan all they want, but other then one little thing called armor lock, most of their changes where great and helped build onto preexisting ideas and pave the way for new ones.
You are identifying the main issues in the community. Thank you. I've been here for all 19 years of Halo
@ッShadows has it been 20 already
I've only been part of the community for 12 years
@@thearbiter624 No, you have been here since Halo 2, you can't lie to me Arbiter
@@sargentomayoraveryjuniorjo2006 theoretically yes but actually yes
I'm surprised Halo 2 didn't have more people
It was just because Halo 2 was marketed towards existing fans while H3 was marketed to draw in new ones. Love your music btw.
Remember that the PS2 was the dominant system and came out before the Xbox. Most kids just had whatever console their parents bought, so Halo 2 didn’t really have room to grow beyond Halo CE’s popularity. The 360 came out way earlier than the PS3 and was like half the price, so more kids had it and gave Halo 3 fertile soil for a good harvest. The same fertile soil and the hype of Halo 3 (and the PS3 still having awful online and pricing) let Reach explode in popularity as well.
I think Nerd Supreme has the right of it. Halo CE was popular as all hell (even though neither Bungie or Microsoft expected it to be quite that popular), so Halo 2 was marketed toward them.
I think there's also the console divide to take into account though. Because both Halo CE and Halo 2 were on the system, a lot of people got Halo CE first because why not get the first game if you were going to play the series, and the convenience of a shared system exists?
Halo 3 and Halo Reach don't have the relationship dynamic of CE and 2 because Reach was a prequel, not a sequel, and had a different style and vibe to it, so it's crowd may have gotten it instead of 3.
Halo 2 only had the best story, and that's literally it.
Its campaign level design was rushed thanks to Microsoft's impatience, and its multiplayer is cute compared to later titles.
Having said that, I always played Halo 2's Multiplayer on Windows Vista when I couldn't afford an xbox.
Halo 2 also introduced lots of features that are a staple part of what's included in future titles, dual wielding, vehicle hijacking, playing as elites, emblems, secondary colours, etc.
Looking back, Halo 2 felt like a rough draft that Bungie made in order to test what works, & what doesn't. And that's pretty neat.
Halo 2 group was most likely Halo CE group.
A huge majority of Halo 2's community was those which fell in love with CE and in terms of weapon sandbox, it was pretty similar, both having 1 major head honcho, the Magnum/Battle Rifle.
There's something about Halo that attracts some of the most strongest and stubborn personalities I've seen in any fanbase ever. I don't know why.
It's likely because it has changed more excessively than just about any other shooter or game series in general. I'm part of the CE house, one of the few that loves just about every Halo game. That's probably because I played CE when I was so young (around 4) as a guy born in 2002 and played it almost exclusively because I didnt own Halo 2, until 2009 when I got Halo 3. I also wasnt given online privileges by my parents until the Xbox One dropped and I bought it in 2014. Because of my classic start but still being young when the newer games came out I wasn't so jaded to change. Halo Reach is probably my favorite because it feels like the perfect balance of classic and new. I love the older games more but I adored Halo 5 multiplayer and have about 2 weeks of playtime in it over the last 6 years. Just really wish everybody could see the value in every game the way I do cause I really think Halo fans are one of the biggest reasons to its decline in popularity.
@@willhammill3286 I think you summarised it pretty well! Halo fans are particularly attached to a specific version of 'Halo', so it's become difficult for 343 to properly evolve the series in the same way as another game franchise would. It's gotten to a point where a 'middle-ground' approach that combines the best parts of old and new Halo is seen as a bad thing.
Luckily, people seem to like what they saw with Infinite's multiplayer showcase and I hope it can deliver when it releases.
@@paperbag1093 I think it's probably because it doesnt appear to have anything like armor lock or bloom which as a reach fan really pisses me off despite loving the game. Reach was controversial at launch but is remembered almost as fondly as the original trilogy at this point. Infinite really feels like a successor to 3 while toning down the mobility, which makes the old fans happy while keeping it modernized for new customers. Pretty genius.
@@willhammill3286 Wise words. It’s kind of ironic how one of the best aspects of Halo (its evolution and change) is also one of the reasons the community is so divided. I just hope one day the community can come together, forget the toxicity and just celebrate one of the best franchises in the world.
@@juanramirez7522 Agree with you there, man. Halo is easily the most fleshed out shooter in terms of lore, the world is just way too fun to not see value in it. Luckily Infinite appears to be taking the value of all of the games with a openness to new and old players. I'm fucking hyped.
loved this. People often forget that an entire new generation of Halo fans were brought up with games like 4 and 5. Obviously their frame of reference is going to differ quite a bit from people who started with CE or 3. The point about new players is so interesting because like you said, they often don't feel welcomed because they might like a certain style of Halo over the others. Like god forbid you even mention that you like sprint before the angry mob is at your doorstep.
We need to understand that Halo is a 20 year old franchise that at this point has crossed generations. Its so tiring to hear old fans be so entitled and act like they own the franchise just because they were a part of it in the early days. It honestly turns a lot of people off. Some will say that the franchise started to die when Bungie left and 343 killed the franchise. I think that's not true at all. Its in part due to the community and everyone having a different view on what makes Halo...Halo. I love this franchise, been here from the very beginning but this community can both be so passionate and so hateful all at the same time. We need to give the newer generation a chance to speak up and allow their input to be heard. Their opinions matter just as much as the older ones. Awesome video man, loved this analysis. Its something that needs to be addressed more often. So much of the fault and blame is aimed at developers for the state of the franchise when I think the community needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and maybe consider they are also part of the problem. But those pills be too hard to swallow...
No, the new comers opinion really don't matter, and should never matter across any medium. There's a reason why there's a stigma against normies and casuals. They always ruin any cool, small, niche thing(SCP). Yes we are entitled to Halo, we made it one if the greatest franchises of all time, the newcomers have to play it on OUR terms, or not at all.
@@TheBeastInBlack you are literally apart of the problem
@@hannya3593 with people like him the halo franchise will cease to exist
@@dream8870 I never actually believed there are people that think like him
@@TheBeastInBlack A pretty big bait for an argument. But I believe you gonna need a bigger bait. Good attempt 👍
Cant Wait for the Comments like. "X is TERRIBLE, Y is Better" or "You are so stupid, why are you so wrong?"
This series is great for the community and is showing many things that we dont really see.
With every passing second I spend in the Halo community, the more it reminds me of the Sonic community.
To you, reader, this absolutely sounds stupid. “How could a community of whiny babies be comparable to us?” Let me tell you:
-Recent failures seeding doubt in the future quality of the games, no matter how good they end up being.
-“cautiously optimistic” is a term used way too often in both communities.
-series started as the exclusive mascot of the loser of the console war, and innovated on an existing gameplay style, to the point where they created sub genres of their own
-The series(s) has consistently split the fan base over story and gameplay
-recently, both franchises have been prioritizing merchandise and “going back to their roots”
-and finally, both have vocal minority groups, which make outsiders believe that every game in the series is bad
If Halo Infinite ends up being “bad”, these comparisons will likely only become more pronounced.
true shit
@@Cheezeburgher It’s depressing
Well, it will be bad. But that's because its going through Duke Nukem Forever levels of development hell. Not because 343 isn't trying.
@@TheUnchosenOne Then I guess we’re screwed
@@cober5768 Theres a slim chance, but if multiple directors leave a company on one project its kindof a death sentence.
so what I've concluded is that the houses must duel for control of the franchise. This battle will be legendary!
Halo 3 house rise up
Halo 3 is going to win.
Man, you just laid out all the problems this community has. Hopefully in time they get ironed out.
I was there 3000 years ago...
We had to carry our heavy CRT TVs around like little cavemen -only as strong as our weakest link. With the constant fear of dropping the damn thing.
And when we got to the friend's house, we had to create space, manage cables, set up consoles.
In the end everything had to be dismantled again.
From the sounds of it, infinite is doing a pretty good job at catering to all fans. I started with Halo 2 and then went to CE but while those were my entry to the series, I only played those locally and didn't get the whole live experience until Halo 3 which I played much more than the previous two, so realistically I should be considered in the Halo 3 house. I do have many strong opinions on Halo and much prefer the more classic play style (I have a 13+ hour playlist on why Halo 3 is the best Halo) but I'm also open to sandbox changes. This video was great, and it does put into perception how and why other houses feel the way they do. One thing that I strongly believe regarding Halo that you mentioned is that veteran players have a more important say in these issues, as they are the ones who compelled the series to greatness and understand what made the games so great in the first place; that is why I value the opinions of those in the Halo CE and Halo 2 houses more than mine, they understand what made the game so groundbreaking. I also think that there is a reason that Halo 3 fans feel so strongly about their game, it was just that good. Someone who is indifferent towards the game obviously did not have as much of an attachment, an attachment that only a game so good can give you.
No DMR though :(
@@potatokilr7789 BR is better, especially compared to the Reach DMR with its awful bloom function
@@BillyCobbOfficial Sounds like you aren't from the Reach House :P
@@potatokilr7789 pretty sure I made that clear in the initial novel I wrote
I think the most interesting point you brought up is how hyper-averse to change some members of the community are. I can remember sitting on my dad's lap as a kid while he played CE and hearing him curse about not being able to move faster. But hey, it IS the internet after all, and having a different opinion is basically heretical. Time to found the new secular halo republic.
Maybe change is unnecessary?
Why change a dish prepared by gordon ramsey?
Change is natural. Where there is no change there is only stagnation. That's just the way creative cycles work.
@@AscendHyperion adding loot crates is a significantly negative change.
@@AscendHyperion change can be good or bad. Change shouldnt exist for the mere sake of change. It must serve a purpose. Alligators, sharks, turtles, and many species of fish and lizard have had insignificant change while other species evolved. They found their niche and owned it. Thats natural selection.
As someone in the Halo 4 house it's kinda hard having discussions online especially with fans of halo 3 and ce.
What sorts of things you want to discuss? I'm under the Halo 2 house btw.
@@TheRoseReaper Ey, fellow Halo 2 person. Anyways, it's down to just how radically different 4 is from Halo CE, 2 and 3 which all have a similar fundamental formula. I think it's important to remember it's just a video game at a certain point, and if people are *genuinely* attacking you over just enjoying a video game that it's really not worth discussing it with them.
@@emilylefebvre646 A little rant here real quick: Honestly I don't understand why people are so violent when it comes to the core formula. Personally, I feel like that people ignore a lot of mistakes that Bungie has made (as someone in the comments pointed out) and they seem like they worship Bungie as much as a religious person would worship the Masiah. Did they do things that nobody else did? Yes they did I will not deny their talent. Did they make a lot of mistakes? Nobody is perfect, so of course they made mistakes. Hell, from what I understand, the powerfullness of the CE Pistol was a freak accident, they gave the illusion that you're doing more damage with dual wielding in 2 and 3 (2 guns in each arm means more power and less accuracy, not the other way around). Halo 3 the Flare is useless against AI from what I've played. And both of 2 and 3 had those god damn Jackal Snipers. They also weren't net coding geniuses so multiplayer was a bit on the wild side sometimes. I could go on and on and on about what they did what I believed to be wrong. 343i is no different. Did they make a lot of mistakes? Yes they did. Did people accept those mistakes and moved on? No. No they didn't. There was so much backlash on them it was not even funny. From Sprint, to the Load outs, anything and everything they could nitpick the fuck out of, they did it to an extreme. Sure they have the right to criticize, but my god I have never seen a community so... unhinged. They wanted 343i to reinvent the wheel with Halo 3. There should not be this much discourse over the fact you can sprint in a game where you play as a super soldier. From what I've seen, the Halo community big 3 as far as I've seen has gotten out of control and needs to knock down a couple pegs. Especially as far as I've understood, Halo 3 people.
@@TheRoseReaper I understand the sentiment, but I disagree with people getting super aggressive with people over mere opinions. The core formula for Halo is very fickle, and no reasonable person is arguing Bungie were absolutely perfect in everything they did, otherwise the massive shitstorm around Halo 3 competitively wouldn't have happened. At it's core, Halo used to be a fairly simplistic arena shooter, that got most of it's innovation outside of base traits (I.E. Sandbox, new vehicles, weapons, equipment, so on.) over base traits, which get more complex the more out there you get.
Is that to say it's objectively bad to change the base formula? Of course not, but it does alienate a lot of people who prefer that simplistic base experience, which is perfectly valid! It's best not to contribute to the flame war long standing communities cause - far from a Halo exclusive trait.
I feel ya. Even tho I have started playing Halo with CE, I do have some very "controversial" opinions on halo. For instance the first time I saw master chief in Halo 2, my reaction was "What is this BS armor, can I get the one at CE back plz?". I also hate most aspects of Halo 3, it is the worst game in the franchise from my point of view (a lot of people will think that I need to go check on my mental health or something :P).
I’m just waiting for the hundreds of people who are about to arrive to whine about this video and hooking onto irrelevant information that essentially doesn’t actually challenge the points of this video.
Halo 3 was the game that got me invested in the franchise, but Reach, 4 and 5 are my preferred games because of their more modern gameplay features.
You give deep and unique perspectives on Halo, I like it! It's really important for a community like ours to be inclusive regardless of people's perspective, as long as we don't put people down because they prefer a game that we might not have as a favorite.
Disagreement and discourse can be held without disrespect. That's teh goal :)
And then this youtuber implied that everyone who uses a toggle to preserve the experience isn't worth keeping in the community, and disrespected everyone who disagrees with the idea of putting norse, greek, roman, dark age, and fantasy elements into game.
I thought it was amazing to see the 3 houses concept for the community. For myself starting on CE back in 03 and going all the way through to 5, it's so cool to see what most of the community opinions are without the nonsense. Can't wait for more and hope you continue to take a surveyors perspective on the community, especially when infinite comes out.
I feel like some of the long time halo fans of old act too entitled about the newer halos.
Man
I started with halo Ce and moved since with the games as they came released
But i dont get why people hate on anything from 343
Same, brotha. I started with CE and, to a certain extent, I am more than welcome to change in the Halo franchise. The game needs to evolve in order to remain alive
I think it stems from halo 4 starting a lot of changes many felt unneeded at best, and unwanted at worse. From minor things to changing timeless visuals to overdesigned, assets that homogenized into a blur of seemingly stereotypically generic sci fi. To Changing gameplay elements to a point where things are almost unrecognizable to what was before. Plus the Narrative department from 343 was never something to write home about.
The hate comes from 343 changing things that didn't need to be changed (art style, sprint) and not changing what needed to be changed (re-using the purple Covenant).
I started with 3 and prefer Reach and also played quite a bit of 4, but in general I think sprint and overall movement needs to be a more important focus in design. It hasn't improved at all since 3.
I’m from the house of CE and very open to change. Every game has improved IMO. Halo 5 has the best multiplayer.
The 343-made Halo games are fun, but they're not a clone of Halo 3. That's why people hate the games.
Also, the people with a loud enough voice to be heard (UA-camrs, streamers, etc.) usually are those kinds of people.
The thing is: people also forget the mistakes bungie did, and worship them as gods
@@alonsobabonso3423 "How Bungie would have continued the Halo series?"
Just look at Halo 3 ODST and Halo Reach, clear predecessor of Destiny.
Not saying that Destiny is bad. I'm saying that they wouldn't have made a "Halo 3.2", but a very different and modern game, just like Destiny.
Nostalgia is both good and bad when it comes to memories. Being impartial becomes a challenge to everyone, especially to long-time fans. I understand this, but we all need to fight back and be more rational, in particular when we're dealing with social media like Twitter or forums.
I was one of those who just believed in the hate by the UA-camrs too (My first game was CE, and I got invested in that when I was 11 lol).
Then when I actually played Halo 4, I was like damn.
I love the game. The game is on par with Halo 2 in my opinion, not to mention just how beautiful it looks. (Although I don't like the new Covenant artstyle)
Someone finally said it. Thank you
Halo 1-3: sandbox shooters
Halo Reach-halo 5: ability-based shooters
As somebody who was introduced to Halo with Reach and only got the full experience when I bought Halo 5, this video is exactly what I've been thinking about for a long time.
Really great video! I was surprised to see Halo CE had such a huge impact still in the community! It’s great to see! Great insight overall though, keep up the great work.
bro. this video is literally gold! I'm 24 and I've been an halo fan since halo ce, which was my first game. Ironically, after two games of my hate toward halo multiplayer, i found halo 5 to be a HUGE return to the classic halo level playing field, it resemble halo 2 to me!
So my first Halo I played was CE in 2012 (rocket slayer in prisoner with my dad and uncle). However, I became MOST invested with Halo 4. I received it as a Christmas present from a different uncle in 2013, and proceeded to fall in love with the story and local splitscreen. Over the next year, I played through CE and 2 the OG Xbox, and soon afterwards purchased CE anniversary and 3. 4 will always hold a special place in my heart.
Dude I share that same opinion with the soundtracks! The track 117 of the H4 ost is tied to the original Halo Theme as my favorite tracks of the entire series. And honestly, H4 had one of the best campaigns next to H2, so I'm with you with your opinion on H4!
@@StarWarsJibaro the song “To Galaxy” also hits very different. I would listen to it for hours while I sat in front of the TV customizing my character and preparing new local games with friends. Probably the best menu background track out of any FPS
I wonder, where do those of us in the fringe groups, Halo 2, 4 and 5 fit in?
The idea is pretty much the same. People had higher positive opinions of their entry title in the general sense, regardless of game
@@AscendHyperion That makes sense, what I find interesting is the difference between that, and other franchises. Half-Life for example has very little controversy regarding it's sequels
2 fits in with 3. They're basically the same thing minus a few small elements. But you're in the same house.
this was helpful, for the entire community
also holy shit the sound is beautiful
I took psyche 1 last year and all this is very true.
My hypothesis for the disliking change data is this:
Reach is defined by its uniqueness with respect to the franchise. To Reach house, deviation is good. To the CE house, the whole franchise is change, so change isnt so bad. However, H3 house came in at halos peak, indicating to them that their frame of reference is the best. That's why they believe H3 is the best and change from H3 is bad.
Thoughts?
I’d say that’s an accurate way of describing it
I think it's a good analogy. I think the h3 house is blinded ny themselves being the peak of the franchise though. change is necessary because it fuels creation from becoming a stagnant product. though if we consider halo 3 the "peak" of the franchise, all changes done in the future games should follow the formula halo 3 has followed before it. so examples are, if halo never had sprint, don't add it. if halo 3 added equipment, add more equipment and useful tools in future iterations. my point is, you have to analyze the change that led to halo 3 and evolve it in that direction if halo 3 was considered the highest of it's time. So that means if halo never changed base movement, don't add player abilities to the core movement. if halo has expanded on it's sandbox gradually since halo ce to 3, then add _more_ things to the sandbox.
also let me clarify the meaning of "a sandbox" in relation to halo. a sandbox element is something that the player can interact with that is *not* tied to them as a trait, and *must* interact with outside of their own inherent abilities to use.
i often see people misunderstanding the meaning of the term, them saying for example, "thrusters, spartan charge, and ground pound were the new things to explore in the sandbox for halo 5". Those are not sandbox elements. Reach's armor abilities fall into a gray area however. they are most of the time choosen on spawn in multiplayer, but can be found on the map in both campaign and multiplayer.
This is pretty good video and in my opinion talks about main issue in community. I been fan since halo 2 and I mostly like all of them (expect 5) but I see so much in fighting on which is the best
Halo 1-5 are all triple A title games. All just in a different era of the market and what people expected at the time. Although 343 made a big jump which most Halo fans weren't ready for. I know I wasn't ready for Halo 4's jump although I still enjoyed it a lot. I had my gripe with the game for sure. I never got to play 5 as that was when I switched over to PC and never looked back.
Which sucks cause I've always wanted to own and play 5 so I could have a solid opinion on the game.
This is the type of content creators we need right now. I can't believe it took me so long to discover this channel.
Amazing content!!
It’s cool that you did that analysis of the survey. It gave a really interesting perspective of the halo community. I hope to see more videos like this.
I agree that we (the Halo community) compare a lot and whine about the smallest mistakes we have to understand the 343 is trying to fill a big hole that bungie left behind
And now with the releaseing of infinite I believe 343 is actually trying while some people whine about the graphics we should understand that they're actually rolled back so that the game is stable for the demo
Definitely
I feel like 343i is and has done a lot to not only accommodate the fan base but also those interested in the franchise. That said, it's those whiney gatekeepers that just make it so hard for new players and the rest of us that are more open minded to changes.
It is unfortunate that Microsoft is forcing them to release it on the Xbox one as well as the series x. This will hurt the game the most as it is the platform for halo for the next 10 years - moving from series x gen into the next one whilst still needing to be compatible with Xbox one gen.
How can you say that they're actually trying when armor costing exists!?
@@TheBeastInBlack they need to make money somehow and they mentioned a alternative way to acquire them
This video sets out to send the message that all fans' perspectives are valid. But, I feel you've sent the exact opposite message. By saying every Halo game is someone's first, and every frame of reference is equally valid to the franchise, so you shouldn't assert your perspective on what Halo should be, you're ironically telling every fan that their opinion of Halo doesn't matter at all, because their frame of reference conflicts with someone else's, and they should accept any changes in a new game because it COULD be someone's first, and their frame of reference.
The logic here seems backwards; "the changes in a Halo game are by definition valid because it was somebody's first game, so you can't argue that those changes dilute what you come to the series for". Yes, some fans had a newer game as their first Halo, and thus is their "frame of reference". But at the same time, the fact that a game with controversial changes attracted, or can attract new fans, is in no way a good justification for alienating an already established audience.
If we accept this mindset of "No matter how the franchise changes, all perspectives are equally valuable to the series' future", then we risk fracturing the series into a hundred subgenres, losing any semblance of identity, where no one is happy, because their frame of reference isn't being sufficiently catered to, ala, the Sonic series. The truth is, with the giant, fundamental changes newer Halo games have introduced, you can't please everyone. Halo has to pick a "frame of reference" to cater to. And while no one should be insulting or putting down one another, people are justified in arguing for what Halo should be in the future.
If everyone's perspective matters equally, then what are newer Halo games supposed to do, exactly? A game that satisfies all perspectives is literally impossible. If we make a game that caters to one perspective, or make a game that is an entirely new thing to both perspectives, are they just supposed to accept it without question? If so, where do you draw the line of how much you have to change Halo before you're allowed to argue that said changes are bad?
Do you see what I mean? I get your intention, which is to bring people together, but this mindset is fundamentally unpalatable to improving Halo, no matter what your frame of reference is.
Preface: Are you also the Ruby of Blue from Insta? Even if not, yo' people have been blowing up my comments talkin about your Halo Dual Wield Mod. Funny to get you in this neck of the woods haha.
"This video sets out to send the message that all fans' perspectives are valid. But, I feel you've sent the exact opposite message" Okay so let's just sorta set our course here. The goal isn't to "validate" anyone. The goal is to express what factors may (probably are) influencing how people act outwardly about the franchise. I think I take care to not express agreement or defense of any opinion based items. I tackle a few misconceptions, like "Everyone hates Halo 5!" but that is to rectify misconception. I never say "halo 5 is a great game!".
The 2nd paragraph continues the misunderstanding. Again, please understand my goal is just to get people thinking about how they form their opinions and how other people form theirs.
"you can't please everyone. Halo has to pick a "frame of reference" to cater to" What an interesting assertion. I agree with the first part, "You cant please everyone". So who do you please? There are actually several very objective ways to answer this question. For example, Halo's player and community base is most heavily focused in the 17-24 age group. So if I was a number cruncher at 343, Id just say "Make the game for the people who will be in this age range between the years 2020-2025. Very mechanical. Very clean. Is it fair? Well, ask people ages 13-16 and 25+ haha. My point is that this issue has no simple answer and for a long time, we've pretended the answer was right in front of us. If anything, this video should help people understand that building a game for 3 generations of assumedly equal generations of fans aint as easy as just saying it's easy.
Again, the 2nd to last and last paragraphs continue to misunderstand the point of this video. I don't claim to, and will never claim to have the right answer to those questions. Nobody ever should. My goal is to show you when you start asking these questions, and then you peek outside your own biases, your own desires, fears and the likes, it gets real hard to see an answer; especially if when you look outside your own window you're looking at the windows of others.
I dont claim to have the right answer. But I'll gladly assert any one person who thinks their answer is the one true answer is full of themselves, and need to mature their world view.
Hopefully that helped!
@@AscendHyperion If I'm not mistaken, the statement "I don't claim to, and will never claim to have the right answer to those questions. Nobody ever should." is saying that no one should claim that any one path that Halo takes is going to satisfy everyone, which is true, and I have said as much here. But most people who advocate for Halo to improve past the last decade, do not claim that *literally everyone* will be satisfied by Halo going in a certain direction, and I feel that is a strawman which this video's premise is built upon. We understand that certain segments of fans will be left behind no matter where Halo goes.
So with that said, when it comes to deciding where Halo goes, I think you are massively overcomplicating things for fear of stepping on people's perceptions of Halo. The reason you think what should be done with Halo is so difficult to answer, is because you are giving equal value to every fan's frame of reference. But I don't think there is enough of a justification to do so.
The biggest point is: the changes in the newer games that may be part of newer fans' frame of reference, are such that they alienated the significantly larger, already established audience, at the peak of the franchise's success and popularity.
Your data shows that no one Halo game is hated by the majority, and you use this as one of the reasons to why finding an answer to where Halo should go is so difficult. I see two issues with this: One, it doesn't take into account all of the fans Halo has lost the last decade, as Two: You cannot deny that Reach, but especially Halos 4 and 5 are more divisive among the established fan base than their predecessors.
Like I said, in context of the changes Halo has made, you cannot please everybody. So you have to choose a direction to take with the series, even if it means disappointing a segment of fans. With all that I've laid out, in this instance, why would you not return to the general style of the three most similar games, which are the most highly regarded in the series, which made the series so popular in the first place, which also happen to be where the largest majority of fans started from?
This approach of returning to your roots and pleasing the long time fans has time and time again been a winning ticket for struggling franchises; Resident Evil returning to survival horror, Sonic returning to its 2D gameplay roots with Sonic Mania, Doom making a giant come back in 2016. All of which were series whose old games' styles were deemed 'dated'. I see no reason why it should be different for Halo.
That is how someone can form an answer to the question you're struggling with. I am not claiming it is the "one true answer", and a small segment of fans will be potentially disappointed. But people can argue for why a certain path is the series' best bet, and that is valid.
In b4 DC, Marvel, Transformers, Star Wars and 40k have been doing this for years. A healthy IP is a versatile IP. Claiming that there is only one definitive interpretation of an IP or franchise is whinny and stupid.
I'm gonna need a music list fam.
11:01
This kind of stuff is nothing new, much less to the Halo community. Transformers has the Geewuuners, Megaman has the guys that hate Megaman X, and the Star Wars movies have the OT purists. What is important though, is that they were never the main voices in the community., like in Halo. And that kind of onesided discourse has lead to the community's current form where next to no one wants to break in and get involved because all anyone does is bitch and complain about how everything is broken all the time. It's a massive turnoff, and part of the reason why MCC is having a hard time breaking into the mainline Steam community. Hell, people are digging up the Gearbox port from 2003 to complain about now, like anyone can do anything to fix it. There is no resolving this problem aside from excising this kind of discourse and moving on. And part of that means taking down the old games, and dissolving some of the nostalgic haze that surrounds them.
A bit of an anecdote, but my parents are uber nerds. My mom is an X Men Superfan and my dad collected comics, martial arts movies, and is a massive Doom fanboy. So, when I was growing up, I had a lot of exposure to these franchises. And one thing that they didn't push was that their versions of these franchises were the "true" verison. Even though my dad was old enough to remember when the original Spiderman comic book came out, he didn't say that the Raimi Movies, "Ultimate Spiderman" comics or the 90s Spiderman show were "not Spiderman". My mom didn't saay the '04 X-Men movies weren't X-Men. They took it in stride that they had grown up, and that it was only natural that these franchises change to fit with new times and new audiences.
I grew up with all kinds of different interpretations of characters, so I never really nailed down a singular movie or story that I have nostalgia for (Aisde from the Star Wars OT, the Transformers movie from 1986 and the Raimi series ;) ). I considered every version of Spiderman or Superman as Spiderman and Superman, and I loved Spiderman and Superman. So it was never that big of a deal when they had a new actor, or a new director or changed the desgin of the suit. What was importat, was that the thing in question was fun and enjoyable.
The nostalgia people have towards classic Halo is understandable, yet I think we can agree that it's wholly selfish to say that the new kids can't have their turn with the toys. Which is exactly what it is when you strip away the veneer of professionalism and overbloated reddit posts.
one hell of a response my friend, i really wish people looked at it and came about like you unfortunately that’s bot realistic
Fact
It's worth noting that there's been a mass disproportionate exodus of people from the Halo CE/3 crowds since the Reach & H4 launches.
I identify with the Halo Reach house. However, Halo 3 would be a very close second.
While I mostly agree every players' opinion being equal, the one big view advantage veterans have over new players is seeing the evolution of the franchise for better or for worse. Halo 3 sold near 15 million copies in its lifetime. Clearly, that game was something very special and had so much going for it.
While I appreciate 343's efforts in certain areas of the series and Halo 5 had some impressive and very fun ideas, they don't have the skillset yet to create a retro-esque OR vibrant new Halo experience of their own. It's a very gray line that they just haven't been able to quite cross yet.
you think you might be ready to take this back?
@@haslamabad_ I'll consider it after having enough time to play Infinite.
House CE. i am in favour of a mix of halo 3, 5 and reach multiplayer gameplay, with a more halo 3-esque balancing, 5's and reach pistol mixed, multi use equipement, halo 3 mlg speed, slightly higher jump height and toned down halo 5 thruster pack.
House 3 but my fave has always been Reach. I think this would be a much better approach. I agree in that It would make sense to not have any advanced movement increase their speed so much and have base movement close to 3. after all, spartans are quite heavy lol
B-b-but wait guys, we're supposed to just hate change and stuff! Because we're oooooooold
CE/3/Reach hybrid house (I technically played CE first, but only really shot at walls, yet I still respect it heavily for making the modern console FPS. 3 was the first campaign I beat, and MP I played. Reach was the first I owned, my favorite, the one I played the most, and the first one I went above easy difficulty, where I got gud as it were)
I dislike Halo 4 and 5 a lot, sprint outside of armor abilities screws with the game, and they pander to CoD fans imo. I enjoyed Halo 4, but I couldn’t enjoy it as a Halo game, Halo 5 looks like much of the same, and I refuse to download a single game that’s 100+GB. One thing they definite did right was Mythic Slayer in Halo 5, thrusters with no sprint, ground pound, or charge. I would be perfectly fine if this became the standard. Shortly after Halo 4, I lamented how Sprint went from an armor ability to an inherent ability, and not evade. A dodge button would be much more interesting for the gameplay than a sprint button, and I’d also be fine with a straight up double jump. I would also be fine if sprint became an armor ability again, it would force the decision between horizontal mobility, or vertical mobility with the jet pack.
M8 ur vids need to be seen by more ppl
Every share my current viewers put out really helps :D
Freaking amazing video.
Halo 3 was my favorite multiplayer for sure, but I love every Halo multiplayer BECAUSE of their individuality.
Every decent parent loves all of their children.
But every parent has a favorite kid...
As someone who started playing halo in 2015 with Halo:CE Custom Edition, I can relate to some of the points here. When I think of Halo I literally think about the magnum and it is a point of comparison for me for other halo titles. All an all, this was a great analysis. You've got my subscription.
Man, you're banging out quality video after quality video. Keep up the amazing work.
This really opened my eyes to not only the community's biases, but my own biases as well. Halo CE was my entry title, but I prefer 3's multiplayer. I don't have a strong distaste towards any Halo multiplayer, even 5. Halo 5 is a lot of fun when you use the abilities given to you in custom games like jenga or super spartan smash. It puts player agency at the forefront and makes you feel powerful, like a true supersoldier.
I have my own gripes with the multiplayer, such as how unforgiving some engagements can be, given that you can escape easier. I also have different views on sprint, and at some points I remember being toxic towards people that preferred Halo 5's multiplayer over others. You've really put these things into perspective for me. So thank you. Keep up the good work man.
YES!!! - I was hoping, after answering your poll questions, that you might learn exactly THIS! ...Halo is for everyone. Nobody should talk down another halo fan, simply because they love halo differently than you do. Very happy to see how you presented this "Good News" about halo as a whole.
*Great Vid! Cheers, homeslice!
I can happily say I had an amazing introduction to halo. Started on the OG Xbox, continued on the MCC, I played and enjoyed every game equally.
At the end of the day Halo 3 had the most people from which to gain a frame of reference, simply due to sales and player retention. The fact that 3’s fandom views the game so highly just speaks to how good of a time it was to get into Halo. We all just want to see the game return to that former glory and subsequent games that deviated simply haven’t performed as well for whatever reason. I don’t think Halo has had a better title since Halo 3 and I’ll die on that fuckin hill. Don’t care if I’m the stereotype.
THIS! You're speaking facts man, we haven't had a successful halo game on a level like 3. There is a reason people on mcc on all platforms mainly touch 2 or 3, because at the end of the day they are considered the most beloved. Halo Reach despite being the start of the downfall is still more of a halo game I would enjoy moreso then 4 and 5. We've been giving constructive feedback and criticism for a whole decade out of love for this franchise, yet 343 are still too stubborn to understand that most of this community never asked for sprint, advanced mobility, grenade indicators, hitmarkers, hitscan or any other gimmick other shooters have. Ever since their inclusion halo was stripped of its identity in order to cater to fans of other fps titles and in doing so brought those fans into this community in droves to where over the years have grown in size where their voices are now heard just as much as us classic fans, and because of this 343 now have further justification to continue down this path with tarnishing halos legacy. We've been pushing for a true return to form before these nu fans came in and now want to silence our voices on all forums and blog discussions so yeah, of course we classic fans are fed up with being nice, it hasn't gotten us anywhere so if they want to sling shit at us we will very much do the same. 343 could've been heroes, they could've based their titles off of the gameplay from halo 1-3 but instead expanded on the foundation that reach layed out. Back then if we knew the future of halo would be like this, we wouldn't want a future for halo after reach.
@@davidkardan3435 honestly the worst part is that nobody takes the opinions of a classic fan seriously, like we view the Bungie games with rose tinted boomer-brains. It reminds me of the Star Wars fandom, but somehow more dismissive, and unknowledgeable. Its like if prequel fans hated the original trilogy simply because of technical limitations and a lack of sfx. Its that stupid. “I don’t see how sprint really affects gameplay” “I think clamber is a good mechanic because it lets less skilled players have more mobility” “The enhanced mobility is balanced and allows for more options in a situation”. These people don’t know what the fuck they’re asking for. They just want all of their comfy hand holding controls and mechanics from all their other favorite McDonald shooters. I’m just pissed that Halo even bothered attracting retards like that to the franchise.
The video was super interesting and i can really relate to the H3 Fans being more aggresive towards change (A lot of my friends are H3 die hard fans) but where did u get the data from?
The data is use in this series is the result of me conducting several studies on the Halo community over the past few months. I distributed a series of polls across the halo community and used the result of several thousand inputs to build my conclusions.
The issue is that the gameplay changes that later titles made to the Halo formula drove people from the Halo 3 Community away. Halo lost it's dominance as THE console shooter on account of them, so anyone still around from Halo 3 is playing Halo as a "radical" fan due to radical love for the franchise.
This skews the data to make it seem like the "house of classic Halo" doesn't dwarf the "house of modern Halo" because the people who might have voted for classic Halo are no longer engaged in the community.
I’m a new halo player (got into it on mcc pc) and oh boy do i feel like an outsider when i see the reddit. I’m actually scared to share my opinion (that i find h2a mp miles better than h3)
Interesting! As a long time fan it's the reverse for me, I feel so naked in H2A's MP, which is probably down to the fact that I don't play many FPS games outside of Halo, Half-Life and Valve's other titles. Halo 2 and 3 in particular newcomers are going to have a lot of trouble with, as it's mostly populated with veteran players who absolutely know what they're doing! Ironically I'd recommend giving the ranked playlists a try, where you're specifically matched with newer players.
Also, some Halo 3 tips for newcomers:
----------------------------------------------------
Diversify your weapons, the BR is not the be all end all in Halo 3.
Explore the maps in forge, and keep track of the weapon spawns! (Also note map tropes, and other patterns in the design.)
Unless you're using a precision weapon (BR, Carbine, Magnum, Beam Rifle and Sniper) don't bother aiming for the head, unless a weapon is specifically designed to be headshot capable, you'll get no bonus damage hitting specific body parts.
Take advantage of support weapons, like the Plasma Rifle and Plasma Pistol! (Take down a crowd's shields with the PR, EMP vehicles with the PP, so on!)
----------------------------------------------------
I hope these help you enjoy the game more!
H2A is soooo bad but it's your taste not mine
As a huge fan and proponent of the classic game/gameplay I actually like h2a multiplayer. I find it much closer to the classic games than reach, 4 or 5 and imo if reach, 4 or 5 had had something similar to it then the franchise would not be in the state it currently is in.
I think another big factor as to why people insist the new games are bad is because they view 343 as an outsider that they didn't ask for. Halo reach changed so much about the series from story telling to gameplay to art style, but it was Bungie making the changes to their own franchise so people were fine with it. Anything 343 does differently is viewed as a change made by someone unwanted, who wasn't there from the start. Or at least, that's how many people view it.
I guess I'm a bit of an outsider since I started on MCC late 2016. My views mostly line up with older fans'
All fans are welcome
Outsider? Not at all.
This is probably the very first video not only I agree, but I also feel extremely connected.
Spitting facts and saying important things related to the community.
In a sense, I think that 343 probably had a similar group of datas and they're trying to satisfy most of the request of everyone while doing something new on Infinite.
I mean... I just think about producing this game, and dealing with everyone's opinion.
I'd be insane in just a sole week. We probably don't realize the effort to realize a game thought for literally everyone. And obviously, not everyone will be satisfied, but I think they're trying their best to get most of the votes.
I actually disagree, with Infinite it looks more so like they're trying to start from scratch with a younger crowd, trying to satisfy everyone just isn't a realistic goal - from an economic stand point it just makes sense to target a wider, younger and more open demographic than to stick to the pre-existing Halo fanbase. I think more 343 fans are more accepting to core gameplay changes, though, and it mostly comes down to how radically different 4 and 5 are to each other, when compared to CE, 2 and 3. That's my take on it anyways!
I'm seeing way more people complaining about Halo 3 fans than Halo 3 fans complaining about the later games.
Thanks for the video man, this was very informative for me. I was a die-hard Halo CE fan who was so put off by the lore of Halo 2 that I really stopped following Halo news. Even Halo 3, which to me was an A-tier game, was only enough to pull me in as a casual fan again since I was no longer interested in the story. With the hype of release around Infinite though, I started catching up on the other Halo games I missed out on with the MCC collection. I was totally ignorant on the ways on which the community developed after Halo 2, so this was fascinating to me.
Personally, I found out Halo 2 is really the only Halo game I have a problem with. CE is the GOAT but outdated, 3 is good, and Reach is great, so I guess I could fit in all 3 main houses. I'm fine with the franchise taking a more Reach-centric approach in the future though: I would vastly prefer that the Halo franchise evolve into a more militaristic sci-fi story than the grand fantasy space-opera that some of the games have tried to move the franchise in. That's just my two cents though.
So basically the Halo 3 house fanbase is the most toxic, compared to the other Halo house(s) fanbase. :o
This is not only an amazing quality video in production, videos, and sound, but in content as well! Great job, awesome and invigorating!
Unpopular opinion: Halo 5's multiplayer is my favorite out of them.
It's campaign story can go die in a fire, but hey, the multiplayer is bomb!
Halo 4, alternatively, had my favorite campaign.
Halo CE was my second favorite story because while the cast was small and the combat was too stretched out, you see a lot more characterization from Chief.
I still think that moment when Cortana teleports him upside down and he falls, only to knock himself on the helmet to stop her rambling is really funny.
The fact that we have someone like you at Halo Headquarters is honestly a dream. The quality of your vids is impressive and I want to thank you for putting so much passion into what you do. Thank you bro
I know i’m late, but this may be the best video about the halo comunity out there. At the end of the day halo is halo, we all prefer one of them, but they all are awesome in some aspects
First halo I played was CE, but the one where I got engaged was Halo 3 since. Well I think that Halo 3 multiplayer was awesome and great. My true favorite is Halo 5s multiplayer. However every game has their ups and downs in terms of campaign and multiplayer. However I am 'younger' Halo fan, only being 18. Meaning the franchise is a year older than I am.
Despite falling in love with the series since Halo 3 and my views are fairly similar, my overall views changed a lot over the years and it kind of blended aspects from CE and Reach to a lesser extent from sandboxes, enemy design, level design, artistic design, multiplayer, views of customisation and music tastes.
I think the biggest difference is how I approach different opinions during the past few years, I understand why certain fans prefer certain games by their overall experience and even though I disagree with a lot of fans and had vastly different experiences, but I can live with that and understand that I like what I like and they like what they like. I think what helped was ditching most of the Fallout fanbase and became far more chilled out and positive since abandoning arguably one of the most negative and hostile fanbases out there.
6:53 This is confounded by the fact that, while many people would say that Halo 5 had the worst multiplayer, they would also be the same ones to say that Halo 5 Customs Browser was one of the best multiplayer experiences/features offered by Halo in a long while. I happen to be one of those people. That number, therefore, does not objectively speak to how respondents felt about the multiplayer mechanics themselves compared to other Halo titles
Toxic groups like these are what made me cut myself off from the community. I will love all Halos until the day I die.
How tf do you only have 8k Subs? Your editing is amazing!
You and your halo fan friends can help turn that 8 to a 10 😊
Let's be honest, people who say that their opinion matter more because they have been more time with the franchise are egotistical and only harm the franchise
Agreed!
Not necessarily. Halo Reach is my favourite even though I started with 3, but it made a lot of mistakes that could have probably been avoided by placing more value on voices like that. The vast majority of people have a pretty flimsy sense of how games are balanced, to the point that different weapon sounds will make people think the damage is better.
The consensus isn't the consensus because its right, its just what people happen to think.
@@TheUnchosenOne no he’s right it will only negatively effect the game just look at how people bashed halo 5 now 343 is probably afraid that if they mess up halo infinite it will kill the franchise, too me it’s mainly just the nostalgia baby elitists fault, they believe nothing else matters but they’re nostalgia high. there’s categories i made for it.
1st you got the halo og fans who hate 343 for they’re changes but say they give constructive criticism when in reality they just want everything to remain the same like the older titles.
2nd there’s only some halo og fans who enjoyed the newer titles and adapted to it’s different playstyle rather than shitting on it for being different, these guys mostly likely played all the titles and just played and criticism when it’s needed and not in a negative manner.
Then there’s the new audience who came in and probably started playing the newer titles and eventually started playing the older titles and enjoyed them all equally but catered more to the faster play style that is the newer titles.
to me that’s how I see, you’re either one of those three categories. i fit within the 2nd category having played all the halos since i was a little wee one, halo 3 being my most favorite, and halo 5’s multiplayer and forge being my most favorite out of the bunch
@@dream8870 not reading all that but congrats or sorry that it happened
I don't disagree, but I also don't agree either. I'm from the Halo 2 house, but I've really enjoyed all of the games (Halo 4 multiplayer is actually really fun imo, more so than Reach which I've played countless hours of). But I do think that while opinions of the older houses are not more valid, they still need to be heard. My concept of quintessential Halo is much different to those of Halo Reach, 4, 5, and even CE fans. But I think that older houses have some valid criticisms of the newer games, and have a right to prefer their style of Halo and to want Infinite to represent that Halo feeling to some extent. But yeah, calling the newer games garbage and calling their fans garbage is definitely uncalled for.
not really related to your studies but here's some food for thought: with each halo released there was always some tech breakthrough and a major mode added. Halo 2 added XBL multiplayer, Halo 3 added Forge, Reach added Firefight, etc. In addition to next gen specs and art style, we were always able to see graphical improvement up until Halo 4 - 5, which looked super similar compared to progression of other games. like i said, this is off topic but i'm sure there's some type of correlation b/w what i said and why each house feels their's is the best if not for nostalgic reasons, as well as the collective entitlement our community has. good video, definitely subbed!
I've stepped out of the community overall due to the "toxic" H3 fans.
I'm a mildly unique case, as I entered into Halo with 2 (mostly played co-op), then played H3 multi-player for years before the playerbase (that I of course interacted with) made me sick of the whole scene, especially ince Reach rolled in as my favorite of the franchise from a multiplayet perspective.
Point being is- the different houses (especially some.of the older camps imo) have only ever wanted to dominate the overall voices and opinions of the franchise.
Which is a very human thing to do that I can't blame em for.
Even with Reach as my favorite in the multi-player department, I am quick to be like "okay no but this is ENOUGH change- we shouldn't drift any further from how Halo 1-3 established."
I love all of them but I belong to the Reach house
Then you will love Infinite
@@CommentedHere0 It will be nothing like reach besides customization. There will be no armor abilities like reach only pick ups. It will be more like halo 3 but with modern pick ups and sprint.
Halo reach is garbage
What is the song used for the preface? Thanks
Halo has been my primary FPS since the release of CE. I guess I go against the norm of those who took your test because I think Halo 5’s gameplay is by far the most enjoyable today.
Actually, the Halo CE group actually provided a very hyperbolic response to Halo 5. It was either respondents either viewed the multiplayer Strongly Negative or Strongly Positive. It just so happened that Halo CE House made up 40% of the total string dislike of Halo 5
@@AscendHyperion so they’re blinded by nostalgia is basically what you’re saying
@@dream8870 he literally said nothing of the sort. CE fans had the most dislike of 5, but also the strongest liking if it, too.
I think you're just trying to confirm your biases.
I just think all games are good in different ways so if you don’t like a game please don’t just go around and hate on other halo games/fans who other likings.
I can guarantee that I'm an out liar in your research 😆 I started properly with Halo Reach, having watched my brother play 1 and 2 and a bit of 3. I enjoyed Reach, but going back I fell in love with CE and 2. They're my joint favourite.
I'm of the opinion that Master Chief didn't sprint in classic titles because his augmentations and armour allowed him to run at maximum speed at all times. Same thing with bloom, I think the armour allows him to remain 100% accurate at all times. The MK-VB used in Reach is stated as being a less advanced power armour developed by ONI as a budget alternative. I take those mechanics in Reach as narrative elements bleeding over to gameplay.
I think CE is a master piece with very few flaws. Halo 2 is CE suped up. Cooler story, cooler gameplay and dual wielding is awesome. I think every halo should have the CE magnum. I prefer the assault rifle to have 60 rounds and be an inaccurate beast. Though I think 343 misunderstood Bungies reasons for changing the gameplay in Reach, I do enjoy 4.
Artstyle aside, 4 is very fun when not played on legendary. I think the SAW and DMR are redundant in however. Remove them and make the assault rifle behave like the SAW and the magnum like the DMR. Then we've instantly got the CE sandbox keystones. Though I think 4 has problems, I think it's a worthy addition to the franchise and prefer it over 3.
I don't really like 3. The weapons feel weak, the brutes are push overs and Master Chief feels like he swapped his armour plates out for tissue paper.
I played five seconds of multiplayer in 5 and was like this isn't Halo. ADS has no place in Halo because of reasons I stated, armour abilities are too in your face, clamber combined with sprint ruins Halos traversal. 5 may very well be a good game, I just don't think it's very Halo. I play Halo for Halo.
Over all, I think 343 should look at CE every time they start a Halo project. Infinite campaign looks good to me. Disappointed sprint is back. They need to add the CE counterparts of the assault rifle and magnum but it still looks good.
Possibly they could add an armour ability that allows dual wielding. Like it's an add on to the suit that assists in cognitive target allocation at the cost of sprint. It could feel like using the Smart Gun from Aliens VS. Predator in campaign. See I think they could explain these things concerning armour abilities if they just say this new power armour is designed to be modular for other advantages. So that certain aspects of the series like dual wielding, elimination of recoil, constantly moving at top speed etc. Are abilities that are blocked by hardware limitations of the suit and Spartans require a proprietary hardware upgrade (an armour ability) to unlock that aspect of the software of the suit. I found the moment in 4 interesting when Cortana uses Chiefs shields to overload the Ghosts boost. Perhaps at certain points in the campaign like boss fights or extended firefights, Master Chief can find a temporary Forerunner power up that bypasses the Power Armours hardware limitations and allows for increased mobility, higher jumping, no bloom, dual wielding, no need for ADS etc. effectively giving the feeling of playing Halo 2! At the cost of shield strength or other limitation? Then we could have special multiplayer modes and firefight game modes that use this ability, so Infinite can balance both of the Halo fan bases niches at once!
With the sprint debacle, you're actually correct! Chief's max move speed *is* just him running at a full sprint, the only difference between the classic trilogy and the two reclaimer titles has to do with the limitations of that full movement speed. The problem is that Halo is inherently designed around map control and high time to kills, which flies in the face of the traditional twitch shooter sprint mechanic imo. Also, one thing to add onto your comments on Halo 3: Master Chief is statistically stronger over Halo 2, it's a minor change, but I find your perspective interesting as most people consider Halo 2 to be the more unforgiving of the bunch.
Great video as always Ascend!!! It was really informative, and I'm glad to have been part of your study! Looking forward to this series😁
I was a middle boi. I started with Reach and my first live experience was 4, but I went back and played all the games in full. My favorite games are 3, Reach, ODST and 4, but I appreciate the value that each and every game brought to the table. CE defined the franchise, 2 had arguably the best story, 3 closed the trilogy with a bang, was the best balanced, and had the best multiplayer experience, ODST showed a different side of the war and fleshed out the ODSTs as well as an awesome new style of campaign, Reach had the best customization as well as an incredible campaign that shifted the tone a bit, as well as dramatically improving the forge, Halo 4 again shifted the tone and had the most personal story, Halo 5 had an incredible multiplayer and forge mode. Infinite will hopefully pull together the best elements of all these 20 years of work that 343 and Bungie created.
I feel most at home playing Reach, but I love *Halo*. That's why I'm trying to get all 700 achievements on MCC before Infinite releases, no matter how much PTSD CE and 2 will give me 😂
I'm in the halo CE house, but I try to enjoy every halo game for what it is. In my opinion, every halo game is drastically different from one another, yet they all still FEEL like halo. If a halo game stays true to that halo feeling, then I enjoy it. Every halo game has maintained that halo feel, and that's what I love about this franchise, there is plenty of wiggle room for new additions or changes.
For the algorithm to boost this underrated channel
I actually really like how you structured this video, man.
But I have to list out a key few flaws I found in it before I get to my favorite parts, let's start with the Houses.
The Flaws:
#1: I'd have to say Halo fans fall into 3 Houses, yes, but not the ones you list. From my experience I've seen three houses such as the "Original" Trilogy fans, the "Prequel" fans, and the "Sequel" Fans, do these groups sound familiar? because they should, let's go house by house to explain who they are and how they operate.
Original Trilogy Fans: These guys are the people who swear by their lord and savior bungie that Halo was only good back when Bungie made it and they hate 343i with all their hearts, no I'm kidding here, these guys are typically really cool but a vocal minority of them are really toxic and hate 343i.
Prequel Fans: These are the guys who like to branch out, these guys play all the RTS games like Halo Wars, Spartan Strike, Spartan Assault, but they can also be found playing Halo 3: ODST and Halo: Reach and even Halo 4. These guys are my group and while I'm biased I'd like to say they are the most accepting of change and love the direction Halo is going in.
Sequel Fans: These are the new guys on the block, typically guys who just came from COD or Titanfall and like the newer games like Halo 5 and Halo 4, Original Trilogy Fans typically disagree with them a lot but these guys get along well with Prequel Fans quite a bit because they are also welcoming of change and are capable of accepting the flaws of previous games and with their own games.
Overall, I'm a Prequel boy.
#2: This one doesn't need subheadings because it's just a small nitpick and the last on the flaws list, I feel like the topics you discussed could have been furtherly talked on maybe in a Part 2 Video describing things such as Playable Elites and new mechanics and why old and new fans would like or hate them, this could have been a really good way to open eyes of people who swear up and down Halo was only good when Bungie made it.
The Beauty:
#1: I LOVED how you used smooth transitions in the video to make swapping from polling and gameplay feel natural and nice, as well as when talking about a specific group of gamers on the Halo Spectrum you played the games you were identifying in the background.
#2: I think this video was a really good wakeup call for many fans to try to take a step back and take another look at older and newer games and identify why they didn't like those games in a civil way.
#3: there is no number 3, your memes, hand them over, now.
Hope this helps, have a great day, Ascend!
H2 fan here, please don't lump us with those CE and H3 virgins, thank you.
My Halo frame of reference? That would be Halo 2. It was the very first game that when I finished the main campaign I immediately started it over from the beginning. Never in my life did I replay a game as soon as I finished it before Halo 2 and I honestly don't remember doing that after with any other game to this date. That game was that good. Haunting how it stuck with me. I literally set through the credits dumbfounded at what I just became a part of. It simply felt natural to restart the game from the beginning as soon as the credits ended.
The first Halo I played was Halo 2 back before I was old enough to fully appreciate the game. It wasn't until Halo Reach that I started to fall in love with the franchise. I never really thought of the community being separated into three houses, but it definitely makes sense. The breakdown of the three houses has made me realize my own bias towards my thoughts on Halo. Bottom line is that I love this franchise. Halo: CE to Halo 5, I have enjoyed and appreciated them in there own way. I am excited to see how Halo Infinite will be.
This was very refreshing to watch after looking at some of the discussions on halo waypoint. Very objective and accurate at describing some of the biggest and most self destructive issues of the Halo community.
My group of players are mainly PC CE fans. I came in from XBox and I'm the only one who has played every single Halo game.
They're very attached to CE and in other Halo games will still use the magnum like it's the god tier weapon it used to be.
We've come up with a sort of... strategy, where the release of Infinite comes a new slate for us. A clear and new picture of what Halo is for us. Regardless of what house you belong to, there are clear positives and clear negatives to every Halo game and Halo needs to change and grow.
Infinite should be what it's trying to be, a soft reboot. But not just for the series, but for the community too.
And the content creators need to let new people in. So many content creators are so toxic and refuse to change their views on anything to a point where they just say "this doesn't belong in Halo." Without giving any kind of reasoning behind it. We all need to clear our heads of what Halo used to be and move on with what Halo can be.
Wow this is an excellent breakdown, thanks!
I play 1 and 2 for campaign, 3 for multiplayer, ODST for atmosphere, 4 for story and Reach because... well, because it’s awesome.
I have difficulty categorizing myself in one house, both because it's not quite clear which game I first "invested" in, and because my loyalties stretch across games. I would like to think that that means I have less bias, buuut I'm not narcissistic enough to think I overcome bias easier than others. I did notice that I didn't like watching this video, despite the fact that I enjoy learning statistics like these and I pride myself on RELATIVE objectivity.
I think this is because I have a subconscious desire to suppress ideas that conflict with the (admittedly loosely-defined) "classic" style. Course, I wouldn't normally admit that, but my conscious self recognizes that it's wrong to try and hide new ideas, and that the just way to defeat them is with reason. As a concrete example of my feelings, I would be irritated by someone arguing in favor of sprint, but I would be outwardly polite to them.
Ultimately, bias is unavoidable. The message I gleaned from this video is that we all have biases, and that we need to recognize them and give everyone's opinions a fair shot. I would reinforce that bias doesn't inherently destroy a person's credibility, and that arguing for your biases is okay and even preferred - so long as those arguments are conducted with respect.
Coming in a bit late, but as someone who's entry was Halo 3, I have always thought of each game as their own thing. Similar to how each pokemon game's mechanics vary and alter the meta, the same thing happens to Halo. Each game had a varied idea of what the player should be doing in a fight and I even ended up liking Halo 5 MP at it's core despite the other issues I had with it. I always liked how the franchise was open to experimentation and I wasn't too involved with the community. I rarely heard such charged opinions.
I’m personally a reach kid and always have been but looking this it definitely just supports what I’ve kinda thought and definitely think that this one the main problems halo had for years. I think it’s time to move on and no one really gets to say which halo is the best halo cuz there good in there own ways and it really only matters what you personally think is you’re favourite halo
Well, the first hall game I ever played was Reach at a friend's house, and then it was the only one I interacted with until I got my own Xbox years later. By then, the title I bought was Halo 4. I like all of them, though. Each one is fun in it's own right -- and I think people ate just causing trouble being so aggressive, because I think the next versions will be fun no matter (mostly) what art style they use or how they balance everything. And a fun fact, my eldest sister worked on CE! I had no idea until only a couple years ago. Happy holidays!
I came into Halo with CE. Halo 3 was my high school game so I definitely spent the most time with that. I spose I'll just give my quick opinion on each multiplayer.
Halo CE: sucks from a competitive standpoint, but a mess around LAN party is a ton of fun, I'd personally give it a 6/10.
Halo 2: too many button combinations and too much of a skill gap for it to be as fun for me. LAN once again is fantastic, but competitive is too difficult to break into. 7/10.
Halo 3: like I said, this is the game I spent the most time with so I might have some bias. This game didn't have many exploits, so I feel like just about anyone can get into the competitive scene without the veterans being TOO good to even give you a chance. Movement is slow, but methodical. 9/10.
Halo Reach: not a fan of bloom, but I don't hate armor abilities. Competitive is probably on the same level as halo 3 to break into and LAN is even more fun now with the forge tools that were refined upon. 9/10.
Halo 4: my personal least favorite out of all the games. I just didn't like the mechanics of this game at all. That being said, the multiplayer isn't that hard to get into and be good at. I don't have as many good memories with custom games or LAN at this point because this game caused a major falling out in my generation of friends and peers. The forge tools were great, but nobody wanted to play because of the mechanics. 6/10.
Halo 5: I think this game has a pretty high skill gap because of all of the advanced movement. Do I hate the advanced movement? Not necessarily. I actually really enjoy playing halo 5s multiplayer. It feels pretty fantastic to play and I don't have many bad memories of it. The forge gave my friends and I some pretty awesome custom games to play. 8/10.
I have a lot more opinions and thoughts on each, but this comment has gone on long enough. My closing statement has to be that my bias and distaste for newer games has dropped as I've gotten older. Each game brings something to the table that I can enjoy, I just have to be more open-minded.
Really good vid. Looking forward to the next one.
I really liked the Halo 3 machinima in the beginning
BANGER BRO!! These videos are super insightful and I love em. Keep it up
Always expect the freshness from me :)
Haha yessirrrr! If you can put out a great video like this during a content drought then I’m excited to see what you’ll think of when infinite drops
I'm actually more interested in perception on campaign. I started with Halo CE and I know a lot of people from my frame of reference really disliked the story of 343i's games and I'm curious how that stacks against others.
I'm fine with all the differences ce-reach make, it's the changes that 4 on make that ruin it for me.
4 is reach 2.0 what are you talking about
@@_-ghostfps-_8651 it's like reach, but worse.
between halo 2 and 3 is when i got really invested but honestly i want a mix between halo ce, 2, 3, and reach because its literally impossible for me to decide my favorite of the 4
Where's all my Halo Wars entry fans at? 😎 (I'm not one, I'm more of a Halo Reach/4 entry fan)
lmao
is the start of the Halo CE A demo over and over + MCC on pc a house?
Halo 2 entries are all the lore fans
my entery and favorite halo is CE but my favorite multiplayer is from H5 and favorite mission from H2, im glad we have so many different halo experiences in the franchise
I played halo 3-4 campaign i loved them. I started with halo 3, then I played halo 4, then CE, then reach, then 2, then 2 anniversary. Finishing with 5.
My favorite multi-player zand boxes are
Halo reach and 5.
I love the mechanics.
My league favorite is halo 2, due to it being almost silent from afar. But thats on swat game mode.
3 I'm neutral with since I played it with my family a lot.
Thats my stand as a halo multi-player
This video was incredibly well done, good job man