0:00 Intro 00:24 Preheresy Design Breakdown & Analysis 14:31 Preheresy Design vs Lore 26:25 Preheresy Art 30:49 Preheresy Redesign 34:44 Post Heresy Design Breakdown & Analysis 48:22 Post Heresy Design vs Lore 51:31 Post Heresy Redesign 53:38 Post Heresy Art 59:47 Back to Redesign 1:02:42 Final Notes 1:03:36 Outro 1:04:08 End Credit
In the pre-heresy redesign, 32:30 if you look at the legs they look like upside down fountain pens. It adds to the elegance perception of silver, I think.
That was really Indepth. The iron hands have always given me the cold & calculating vibe, like the guy who is quietly at his desk & does his job, but if you F around you will find out.
Awesome video! And I REALLY love the mountain/volcano motif on the re-design especially since it calls to the volcanoes on Medusa along with a lot of IRL mines for metals being in mountains. I really plan to incorporate that into some of my Iron Hands stuff from now on. But if I have to be a bit of "Well ACKSHUALLY". 16:09, the Latin "manus" is not where we derive "man" and "woman" from. "Man" is derived from the Germanic "mann" which has roots in Sanskrit and Hinduism with "Manu" which is the first man in Hinduism and the Sanskrit word meaning "to think". Manus is where we DO derive "manual" from (as in done with your hands). On the topic of the actual legion/chapter's disposition/personality, 20:25, the Iron Hands also let Imperial Forces take the brunt of losses due to the Hands preferring heavy weapons, artillery, and vehicular combat, this strategy is not overly conducive to throwing yourself in the front-line toe-to-toe with the enemy. Ferrus Manus' philosophical dislike of weakness also bled into his warriors who would actively shun going out of their way to be helpful to other Imperial forces with Iron Father Furnous (GW naming scheme hits again) saying "The Iron Hands are not saviours, nor should we be. A man who cannot save himself is weak, and the weak do not deserve to be saved." For Ferrus Manus himself though, I would personally disagree with saying that he was arrogant over the rest of humanity. There are instances of him being quite kind to standard Imperial forces such as allowing them to rest on duty due to being over-worked. Coupled with the fact that even Ferrus Manus' clones remain loyal to the Imperium and the Emperor, his philosophy of purging weakness isn't based on arrogance, it's essentially tough-love for all of humanity with Manus even planning to get rid of the metal on his arms after the Crusade is over to show that metal may be stronger than flesh but HUMANITY and their deeds are stronger than either of them. Even for the Iron Hands later on, this is still displayed though to a more... twisted degree such as by turning a well-performing squad of Imperial Guardsmen into combat servitors because they genuinely believe that that fate is an honourable gift. Even the Iron Hands being staunch in their belief that "Ferrus Manus is dead" shows that Manus was never able to transmit the full meaning oh his philosophy. Overall, you could definitely say that many Iron Hands members DO base their stand-offishness with humanity on arrogance (though this is a trait shared with many other Astartes forces). Also 1:01:38, the re-design makes it look like he has a little smily face c: if you just look at the eyes lenses and first line that touches them and I love that very much. Sorry for the long comment though.
@@jackflashman3322 why thank you good sir 😌 you do very well to inflate my ego 😛 Sunny does not say no to more praise hahah, but man this one took awhile to get out it went longer than expected but I also liked how we did the format in the end as well; combining breakdown with analysis and redesign after ~Sunny
Also about the various hand-drawn style of character busts that you'll often see in the official heresy codexes (such as the gnarly boy at 28:55), those are in-universe live drawings by remembrancers! A lot of them were given implants or augments that allow them to have literal photographic memory which makes their sketches "life-like".
Ah yes, the Iron Hands, led by their primarch Iron Hand, with his iron hands on his ship, the Hand of Iron, and his Iron Hands like to get their hands replaced with iron hands to honor Iron Hand's iron hands.
Just rewatched, still one of the best of the series because it takes what was such a plane design and just adds a few things that give context to them, and it just works woth what was already there, the plane design makes sense as it is now an additional bit of context to understand their character. Great job on this one.
Thank you very much sir, we do very much try as you can see. We are really trying to push for memberships because that is what makes this viable if we can get 50 new members by the end of February we can keep going as a channel - Cal
What I did for my new Iron Hands army, for I think they are super cool! Especially the old Dave Gallagher Art of a techmarine giving the other marine a new arm, is a masterpiece for me. I looked into their lore and thought, that their homeworld of Medusa with its shifting lands and techno barbarians is a super cool theme. So I modell my Iron Hands to be sort of techno barbarians with all these mechanical bits and cold fury and hate within them but also the more savage details like runes, fur and tusks on their armour. For the runes in particular Im using old alchemic symbols for metals. Like an upwards arrow with two small dots for iron and a triangle for fire next to eachother, to show that their iron/body has been forged in fire and such.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow yes, that's what I'm doing for my Primaris marines. Not all yet, because I started them before I developed this idea but in general this is where I want to go now
Honestly, it's a bit of a shame how forgotten the Iron Hands are, they're kinda tragic in the sense that they became the thing that Ferrus didn't want them to be, similar to The Emperor and how he's worshipped when he wanted to end religion. If I had to change something about their design, I'd probably include built-in weapons to their cybernetic replacements, or maybe a return to the hexagonal shaping in some places. I definitely prefer their pre-reunion legion name, the "Storm Walkers", certainly gives them a distinction from the Iron Warriors, maybe make a special unit within the legion called the Iron Hands, or that could've been a successor chapter following the Scouring.
@@azurehorizon6097 the storm walkers aye? Dang that sounds cool yes that would have been better than basically a repeat of the iron warriors. When I was looking through some past artwork of both legions there was a lot of crossover even with our redesign suggestions like the use of chains on pauldrons and mechadendrites which shows how even in redesign they are hard to differentiate because these were other artist interpretations too. ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Yeah, both the Iron Warriors and Iron Hands fit a very similar role for their respective sides, both work with either the Dark Mechanicum or Adeptus Mechanicus, both have a heavy industrial vibe to them and both have a detechment from their emotions, they're painfully similar and not like how the Ultramarines and Black Legion are the poster boys for the Imperium or Chaos. I don't really have a suggestion for what role they could have instead, but I'm sure there would be a better alternative other than a loose copy-paste of the IW. And yeah, quite a few of the pre-reunion legion names are pretty cool, Dusk Raiders (Death Guard) and Star Hunters (White Scars) are very good names before they were reunited with their Primarchs, either for better or worse depending on your perspective.
It’s fitting, like their bestest sharp-dressed forever friends, their pursuit of perfection has utterly ruined them and transforms them into monsters. Both legions also detest their Primarchs funnily enough.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Hey, Slaanesh just wants the besties reunited. He’s just doing that by nudging the frankly ridiculous amount of insecurity among the Iron Hands. Not influencing, nudging, they’re that far gone.
39:00 Ah, yes, the old "F you *grounds your marines*" Something that likely was missed due to lack of recording time or was lost in editing is that Iron Hands of Iron Hands legion, whose flagship was called "Fist of iron" did not like said hands and that his legion decided to honour him by mutilating themselves - he planned to get rid of them after the Crusade was over and then teach his legion to value their own bodies. EDIT. Indeed, a lot of IH successors are pretty much one of 5 stages of grief personified.
So I thought that the talk about the deed endures was a better way to make the point quickly. The biggest problem we have is time this was our biggest lore section for any of the design vs lore and when you look at both of them... they seem vauge as [expiative], its so hard to get right. People often say we missed this or that (I see how your saying edit/time is the thing so I know not you) and it's so hard to avoid going down a rabbit hole. But there is one thing you are freaking spot on IH are grief personified - Cal
I love the Iron Hands! Sons of Ferrus Manus (which literally means Iron Hands) who had literal Iron Hands and a ship named Fist of Iron. Not sure if that's worse and better than everything being Wolfy mcWolf [Blank] with the Space Wolves.
I would add more laser-sighting thingy. Shoulder mounted ones like the Predators (movie) or mechandrites with red lights at end to add to the aggressive look
Perhaps that's what I was thinking but I think Sunny made a good point of how they should be more aggressive so just all weapons all the time... but maybe like red lensed everything could work - Cal
39:01 Sunny got so close to another type of metal-themed space marines with these images. I do like the direction, but I'm kind of biased thanks to the army I chose. The actual redesign had some cool elements with the integrated weapons and robotic look but I think you could stop there because iron hands not having much flavor feels so much like a representation of how their primarch shaped their culture. (I'm not an expert on their lore though by any means). And the eyes are a window to the soul so why not just give them a red glow and leave it at that?
Because visually speaking especially on the board, red eyes alone wouldn't help differentiate them well enough if they were to fight or ally with a legion with a similar design theme ~Sunny
I'm glad I randomly stumbled across this channel, you have a very interesting and unique concept compared to the other channels covering the hobby. The IH are my favourite legion/ chapter so it was a treat to listen to your views on them. While all marines are transhuman in nature, the IH take it to the next level, some of them are barely human at all.
I totally agree with you, and I'm very happy that you found our channel! We've got a whole playlist of these with the past nine legions already covered if you would like to see more ~Sunny
@WhatareyouPaintingnow I already watched The Emperor's Children DvL video straight after this one 😂 They're both perfectionists but differ in their ways of achieving it. Also the contrast between the garish purple and gold to the stern black is very visually appealing when you see both armies fighting on the tabletop.
I liked the way you kept mentioning the "garage aesthetic". It felt like something that really resonated with my impression of this legion. Usually you try to latch onto some cultural quirks of the legion, but this time you just focused on the idea of "mechanics in power armour". I don't know how appropriate that would be, but I would throw out an idea for how they could be given a bit of cultural specificity, while at the same time expanding the range of "technological" themes in their design a bit. The Heresy books repeatedly mention that Ferrus worked in the forges of Mount Narodnaya in the Urals. The Ural foothills are traditionally a very industrial and mining region. Even under the Tsars, they dug deep mines there and built huge factories, which in the Soviet era turned into full-fledged industrial complexes. Here it would be possible to add a bit of industrial design to the Iron Hands, which would tie them not only to mechanics, but also to some metallurgists or miners. For example, some kind of metallurgical crucible as part of the symbolism (a kind of brutal version of the ritual chalice that the Blood Angels love so much), or a scout uniform similar to factory or miner overalls... The main thing here is not to overdo it - otherwise you will get Salamanders. And here the cultural moment can come into play: the Iron Hands have many clans that descend from the tribes that inhabited Medusa. And the Urals are a region where many small isolated peoples live, each with their own national costumes, ornaments, traditional patterns, and so on. These patterns are most often very simple, geometric, which fits in well with the industrial design of the Iron Hands. All that's left is to repaint these ornaments in black and white - and they can be given to clans as an addition to their existing (you'll agree, quite poor) symbolism. Let's say that the Averni clan has Udmurt motifs, the Borgos clan - Bashkir, the Kaargu clan - Komi-Permyak, and so on. To show that these are not just "guys with gears, guys with bolts and guys with spanners", but real heirs of peoples who are different in essence, but close in origin.
You’re painting up Ferrus? How fitting, I’m painting up my EC. These videos are brilliant for painting btw, love this channel and the insights I’ve gained into colour theory have been great for my projects. I also enjoy the sketch of that Iron Hand who has the Cyborg Superman face going on, that image made me want to do a force of them
A client gave me every single primarch to do up, first was Vulkan then was him but economy did economy things and so he had to slow down on his commissioning - Cal
Sunny's redesign was veey interesring using mountain motifs and silver traits. Could purple eyes also show closeness to Emperor's children? Hmm simrthing to ponder.
@@abgea I guess purple eyes could be seen as a nod to the emperor's children too, but I think that's quite specific to draw that from a glance but I do feel that adding a bit of that gold and purple did help make them feel that much more different to iron warriors it's very interesting how changing just a small aspect of something can make a drastic difference at times ~Sunny
Great video! As bland as vanila iron hands can be, your banter made this fun as hell to listen to. Your observations about them are spot on, i think. My thoughts went down a different path when i decided IH was going to be my chapter. After converting my intercessors with bionics and MK3 bits, as much as i loved the result, they felt somewhat bland. So when it came time to do my bladeguard, who felt decidedly not iron handsy, i really wracked my brain to come up with something. Aaaand my mind kept circling back to Ferrus' (heavily implied) melty Necron hands. I'm not fully set on the specifics of the whys and hows but i kinda envision a sub faction within the chapter that has a 'defeat necron and integrate their tech' as a rite of passage Neon green eye glow, red/orange vents necron bits fused to armor and glowy green alien swords Think deathwatch sergeant with phase sword but amped up to eleven across most of the army, inluding vehicles
Talking out of turn, that's a purging. Looking out the window, that's a purging. Looking at my sandals, that's a purging. Being a member of a Xenos race, you best believe that's a purging.
@WhatareyouPaintingnow I was on the verge of unsubscribeing but then you replied and now I'm sad there isn't a tier higher than elite 😞😞😞😞 (finger returns to hovering over the "unsubscribe" button, impatiently waiting for next reply)
This is a great series concept. The Ferrus Manni are not my boys, but I'll be looking forward to when you tackle the Sons of Vulkan... And if you ever get heretical and do the Xenos XP
We are going in order of legion number so we will eventually get to the salamanders and if you like this series check out our videos on what your colourscheme says about you we cover some Xenos in that too ~Sunny
I do wanna bring up the that horus heresy iron hands where foom guy levels of rage legit executing naval officers for failing to nab pirates the giga chad that was shadrack meduson who legit took all the survivors of istavan 5 and fucked up the traitors so much that even horus knew his name. Modern iron hands are pure ice cold battle logic yes you got thebone guy who fucked over the raven guard (he feel to chaos so its not the best example) BUT wrath of iron shows who theyll legit scarified almost a whole titian legion and guardsman regiments to stop this chaos ritual and because of that they did.
Honestly? Alas the poor Iron Hands. They're kinda casualties of the changing times. Back in the day, before the Admech proper were on the tabletop, the closest you could get to their aesthetic, with the cybernetic arms, mechadendrites and the like, were the Iron Hands. They were the closest you could get to actually playing an Admech Army. Nowadays, a lot of players that would otherwise play Iron Hands just play Admech.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnowIt's a bit of a chicken or the egg situation there I think. Are they lesser played because they're not supported or not supported because they're lesser played? Probably both.
@@gilbertgarnica7896 well well you can't tell me too much or else it will ruin the surprise for me hehehe 🤫 I too wonder what we will come up with ~Sunny
The Iron Hands have the big problem of being a mostly Horus Heresy themed legion. Not only are they the Vanguard at Istvan V, they had a whole thing with continuing to go after the Traitors for the early Heresy with Shadrak Medusan. Further, the Iron Hands have a lot of color similarities to the Black Templars, Raven Guard, and Dark Angels. Worse: their successor Chapters have more interesting lore! Side Note- despite.havong similar mentality to the value of life, Ferus Manus and Perturabo differ in their personality. Manus was a cold warlord that wanted to achieve the best results, while Perturabo was an aggrieved workman that held deep spite for being made a warlord and took it out on the galaxy and his men.
@@tonlito22 I agree with what you say about their design and lore, of course I don't know much about their successor chapters but if I recall correctly it was a similar case with the imperial fists too lore wise, their successors had more oomph. Coming up with an interesting redesign for the iron hands was tough ~Sunny
I don’t understand where you got the idea that Iron Hands created the basis upon which other legions built their tactics perhaps after the compliance of rust and their attempted emulation by other legions such as the iron warriors BUT all legions were based upon (in both tactics and structure) the legio bellicosa which was developed by the dark angels the first astartes during the unification wars; the dark angels similarly played a training and advisory role to the new legions whilst their numbers and culture grew which termed them the name ‘the uncrowned princes’
I do think that Iron hands lore has a lot of potential with their whole flesh is weak philosophy and quasi-Lovecraftian forbidden technology. but considering they got almost nothing in current setting, it is rather sad.
You missed the part were Ferrus Manus didn't like the "the flesh is weak" part. He wanted to lead his Legion back to trust in their humanity, after the Great Crusade. I also didn't get that much of an arrogance vibe from Ferrus Manus. At least not to warrant the large part it took up in this video. But they are the most boring of all Space Marines.
I like the iron hands, shame how their lore has been handled. I really like the rage of a star contained by cold logic they are supposed to be, but it mostly gets lost with the cold logic part. This put me off the legion, combined with me not liking the yellow color of the 7th. I think im going iron warriors since they seem like the best of both worlds to me.
I simply don't understand why Games Workshop keeps neglecting Iron Hands as they are an playable faction. I'm with Sunny in this video, the fan arts shows more of the potential this legion has to actually be more interesting than it is right now. Furthermore, I just hope the day GW stops overusing Ultramarines (yes, this whole commentary is a rampage against them, I'm tired of that legion being overpowered in every Warhammer 40k product when they're so generic) and rather focuses on these guys and other interesting chapters and legions, in lore and in games.
@@MasterSkirmisher I haven't played 40k but yes I think choosing a poster boy for the branding is fine but also making them OP doesn't help... because why would you do that if you wanted to create marketable products for 20 legions and then now everyone will naturally swarm around one legion just because they can easily win the games with them. Doesn't make sense to me either ~Sunny
0:00 Intro
00:24 Preheresy Design Breakdown & Analysis
14:31 Preheresy Design vs Lore
26:25 Preheresy Art
30:49 Preheresy Redesign
34:44 Post Heresy Design Breakdown & Analysis
48:22 Post Heresy Design vs Lore
51:31 Post Heresy Redesign
53:38 Post Heresy Art
59:47 Back to Redesign
1:02:42 Final Notes
1:03:36 Outro
1:04:08 End Credit
Last time I was this early, the iron hands still had a primarch
Big oof - Cal
You sure were AHEAD of the others (wait, that‘s the wrong Iron dude).
Too soon...
@@lincolnwillis3345 IT‘S BEEN TEN THOUSAND YEARS! When WILL it be time, Sharon?
That one hurts brother
“Look out, Iron Guys, it’s an attack from the other Iron Guys!”
@@robtibbetts890 🤣 is this a good spot for the Spiderman meme where they both point at each other 😭 ~Sunny
In the pre-heresy redesign, 32:30 if you look at the legs they look like upside down fountain pens. It adds to the elegance perception of silver, I think.
@@happosaai POG FACE! 😱 I didn't think of it like that you are 100% right!!! I think on that same note it adds to that precision of silver too ~Sunny
That was really Indepth. The iron hands have always given me the cold & calculating vibe, like the guy who is quietly at his desk & does his job, but if you F around you will find out.
@@thepiratepenguin4465 indeed penguin! Definitely fits how they are preheresy ~Sunny
This is my favorite warhammer channel right now
🤩 I'm so glad we are your favourite channel at the moment ~Sunny
Awesome video! And I REALLY love the mountain/volcano motif on the re-design especially since it calls to the volcanoes on Medusa along with a lot of IRL mines for metals being in mountains. I really plan to incorporate that into some of my Iron Hands stuff from now on. But if I have to be a bit of "Well ACKSHUALLY". 16:09, the Latin "manus" is not where we derive "man" and "woman" from. "Man" is derived from the Germanic "mann" which has roots in Sanskrit and Hinduism with "Manu" which is the first man in Hinduism and the Sanskrit word meaning "to think". Manus is where we DO derive "manual" from (as in done with your hands). On the topic of the actual legion/chapter's disposition/personality, 20:25, the Iron Hands also let Imperial Forces take the brunt of losses due to the Hands preferring heavy weapons, artillery, and vehicular combat, this strategy is not overly conducive to throwing yourself in the front-line toe-to-toe with the enemy. Ferrus Manus' philosophical dislike of weakness also bled into his warriors who would actively shun going out of their way to be helpful to other Imperial forces with Iron Father Furnous (GW naming scheme hits again) saying "The Iron Hands are not saviours, nor should we be. A man who cannot save himself is weak, and the weak do not deserve to be saved." For Ferrus Manus himself though, I would personally disagree with saying that he was arrogant over the rest of humanity. There are instances of him being quite kind to standard Imperial forces such as allowing them to rest on duty due to being over-worked. Coupled with the fact that even Ferrus Manus' clones remain loyal to the Imperium and the Emperor, his philosophy of purging weakness isn't based on arrogance, it's essentially tough-love for all of humanity with Manus even planning to get rid of the metal on his arms after the Crusade is over to show that metal may be stronger than flesh but HUMANITY and their deeds are stronger than either of them. Even for the Iron Hands later on, this is still displayed though to a more... twisted degree such as by turning a well-performing squad of Imperial Guardsmen into combat servitors because they genuinely believe that that fate is an honourable gift. Even the Iron Hands being staunch in their belief that "Ferrus Manus is dead" shows that Manus was never able to transmit the full meaning oh his philosophy. Overall, you could definitely say that many Iron Hands members DO base their stand-offishness with humanity on arrogance (though this is a trait shared with many other Astartes forces). Also 1:01:38, the re-design makes it look like he has a little smily face c: if you just look at the eyes lenses and first line that touches them and I love that very much. Sorry for the long comment though.
I completely forgot about the combat servitor part. :D I love my iron bois but they truly have problems. xD
I came to this comment section to be a Ferrus Manus apologist. I’m glad someone else did it too
Sunny is really the star of the DvL videos.
@@jackflashman3322 why thank you good sir 😌 you do very well to inflate my ego 😛 Sunny does not say no to more praise hahah, but man this one took awhile to get out it went longer than expected but I also liked how we did the format in the end as well; combining breakdown with analysis and redesign after ~Sunny
Oh I see... I am not crying your crying... - Cal
Also about the various hand-drawn style of character busts that you'll often see in the official heresy codexes (such as the gnarly boy at 28:55), those are in-universe live drawings by remembrancers! A lot of them were given implants or augments that allow them to have literal photographic memory which makes their sketches "life-like".
That's cool!! Also the style makes sense if it's by a remembrancer ~Sunny
Ah yes, the Iron Hands, led by their primarch Iron Hand, with his iron hands on his ship, the Hand of Iron, and his Iron Hands like to get their hands replaced with iron hands to honor Iron Hand's iron hands.
And their successor chapter the Iron Fists, the Ferrus Fingers and the Metal Manus - Cal
The fact that I live rent free in your mind is a complement. Congratulations on another great video. 😊
huh? - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Its pteruges...hahahahaha!
Oh right, it's more it's fun to say, and we were like ohhh we are saying it wrong and people liked the interaction on the Space Wolves one - Cal
Just rewatched, still one of the best of the series because it takes what was such a plane design and just adds a few things that give context to them, and it just works woth what was already there, the plane design makes sense as it is now an additional bit of context to understand their character. Great job on this one.
Thank you very much sir, we do very much try as you can see. We are really trying to push for memberships because that is what makes this viable if we can get 50 new members by the end of February we can keep going as a channel - Cal
Can't wait for you both to get to the Sons of Horus
We are making our way there - Cal
What I did for my new Iron Hands army, for I think they are super cool! Especially the old Dave Gallagher Art of a techmarine giving the other marine a new arm, is a masterpiece for me. I looked into their lore and thought, that their homeworld of Medusa with its shifting lands and techno barbarians is a super cool theme. So I modell my Iron Hands to be sort of techno barbarians with all these mechanical bits and cold fury and hate within them but also the more savage details like runes, fur and tusks on their armour. For the runes in particular Im using old alchemic symbols for metals. Like an upwards arrow with two small dots for iron and a triangle for fire next to eachother, to show that their iron/body has been forged in fire and such.
@@nobiggie928 after hearing your ideas I feel like that would be somewhat fitting for their post heresy design ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow yes, that's what I'm doing for my Primaris marines. Not all yet, because I started them before I developed this idea but in general this is where I want to go now
Honestly, it's a bit of a shame how forgotten the Iron Hands are, they're kinda tragic in the sense that they became the thing that Ferrus didn't want them to be, similar to The Emperor and how he's worshipped when he wanted to end religion.
If I had to change something about their design, I'd probably include built-in weapons to their cybernetic replacements, or maybe a return to the hexagonal shaping in some places.
I definitely prefer their pre-reunion legion name, the "Storm Walkers", certainly gives them a distinction from the Iron Warriors, maybe make a special unit within the legion called the Iron Hands, or that could've been a successor chapter following the Scouring.
@@azurehorizon6097 the storm walkers aye? Dang that sounds cool yes that would have been better than basically a repeat of the iron warriors. When I was looking through some past artwork of both legions there was a lot of crossover even with our redesign suggestions like the use of chains on pauldrons and mechadendrites which shows how even in redesign they are hard to differentiate because these were other artist interpretations too. ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Yeah, both the Iron Warriors and Iron Hands fit a very similar role for their respective sides, both work with either the Dark Mechanicum or Adeptus Mechanicus, both have a heavy industrial vibe to them and both have a detechment from their emotions, they're painfully similar and not like how the Ultramarines and Black Legion are the poster boys for the Imperium or Chaos.
I don't really have a suggestion for what role they could have instead, but I'm sure there would be a better alternative other than a loose copy-paste of the IW.
And yeah, quite a few of the pre-reunion legion names are pretty cool, Dusk Raiders (Death Guard) and Star Hunters (White Scars) are very good names before they were reunited with their Primarchs, either for better or worse depending on your perspective.
It’s fitting, like their bestest sharp-dressed forever friends, their pursuit of perfection has utterly ruined them and transforms them into monsters.
Both legions also detest their Primarchs funnily enough.
@@chadking375 They are the detest-y Besties!
I am sorry I will see myself out - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Hey, Slaanesh just wants the besties reunited. He’s just doing that by nudging the frankly ridiculous amount of insecurity among the Iron Hands. Not influencing, nudging, they’re that far gone.
39:00 Ah, yes, the old "F you *grounds your marines*"
Something that likely was missed due to lack of recording time or was lost in editing is that Iron Hands of Iron Hands legion, whose flagship was called "Fist of iron" did not like said hands and that his legion decided to honour him by mutilating themselves - he planned to get rid of them after the Crusade was over and then teach his legion to value their own bodies.
EDIT. Indeed, a lot of IH successors are pretty much one of 5 stages of grief personified.
So I thought that the talk about the deed endures was a better way to make the point quickly. The biggest problem we have is time this was our biggest lore section for any of the design vs lore and when you look at both of them... they seem vauge as [expiative], its so hard to get right. People often say we missed this or that (I see how your saying edit/time is the thing so I know not you) and it's so hard to avoid going down a rabbit hole. But there is one thing you are freaking spot on IH are grief personified - Cal
To be fair, there is a tragic lack of Xenos Skull usage in 40k designs!
Not enough skulls? Umpossible!! ~Sunny
I love the Iron Hands! Sons of Ferrus Manus (which literally means Iron Hands) who had literal Iron Hands and a ship named Fist of Iron.
Not sure if that's worse and better than everything being Wolfy mcWolf [Blank] with the Space Wolves.
Listen we know that someone told early GW that subtly doesn't work... and oh body we know they believed them - Cal
I would add more laser-sighting thingy. Shoulder mounted ones like the Predators (movie) or mechandrites with red lights at end to add to the aggressive look
Perhaps that's what I was thinking but I think Sunny made a good point of how they should be more aggressive so just all weapons all the time... but maybe like red lensed everything could work - Cal
You guys are awesome! I love the content that gets put out 🤘
Thank you very much sir - Cal
39:01 Sunny got so close to another type of metal-themed space marines with these images. I do like the direction, but I'm kind of biased thanks to the army I chose.
The actual redesign had some cool elements with the integrated weapons and robotic look but I think you could stop there because iron hands not having much flavor feels so much like a representation of how their primarch shaped their culture. (I'm not an expert on their lore though by any means). And the eyes are a window to the soul so why not just give them a red glow and leave it at that?
Because visually speaking especially on the board, red eyes alone wouldn't help differentiate them well enough if they were to fight or ally with a legion with a similar design theme ~Sunny
Great video! I watched it while making a meatloaf for my child and goodly wife.
That's awesome! Wholesome (hopefully) entertainment and time with family HECK YEAH! - Cal
Great Video i would have loved your take on the old forge world oil slick scheme the iron hands had going on
You can check out Design vs Lore 4: the Iron Warriors ua-cam.com/video/7LSSRjzXCN4/v-deo.html - Cal
I'm glad I randomly stumbled across this channel, you have a very interesting and unique concept compared to the other channels covering the hobby. The IH are my favourite legion/ chapter so it was a treat to listen to your views on them. While all marines are transhuman in nature, the IH take it to the next level, some of them are barely human at all.
I totally agree with you, and I'm very happy that you found our channel! We've got a whole playlist of these with the past nine legions already covered if you would like to see more ~Sunny
@WhatareyouPaintingnow I already watched The Emperor's Children DvL video straight after this one 😂 They're both perfectionists but differ in their ways of achieving it. Also the contrast between the garish purple and gold to the stern black is very visually appealing when you see both armies fighting on the tabletop.
I liked the way you kept mentioning the "garage aesthetic". It felt like something that really resonated with my impression of this legion. Usually you try to latch onto some cultural quirks of the legion, but this time you just focused on the idea of "mechanics in power armour". I don't know how appropriate that would be, but I would throw out an idea for how they could be given a bit of cultural specificity, while at the same time expanding the range of "technological" themes in their design a bit. The Heresy books repeatedly mention that Ferrus worked in the forges of Mount Narodnaya in the Urals. The Ural foothills are traditionally a very industrial and mining region. Even under the Tsars, they dug deep mines there and built huge factories, which in the Soviet era turned into full-fledged industrial complexes. Here it would be possible to add a bit of industrial design to the Iron Hands, which would tie them not only to mechanics, but also to some metallurgists or miners. For example, some kind of metallurgical crucible as part of the symbolism (a kind of brutal version of the ritual chalice that the Blood Angels love so much), or a scout uniform similar to factory or miner overalls... The main thing here is not to overdo it - otherwise you will get Salamanders. And here the cultural moment can come into play: the Iron Hands have many clans that descend from the tribes that inhabited Medusa. And the Urals are a region where many small isolated peoples live, each with their own national costumes, ornaments, traditional patterns, and so on. These patterns are most often very simple, geometric, which fits in well with the industrial design of the Iron Hands. All that's left is to repaint these ornaments in black and white - and they can be given to clans as an addition to their existing (you'll agree, quite poor) symbolism. Let's say that the Averni clan has Udmurt motifs, the Borgos clan - Bashkir, the Kaargu clan - Komi-Permyak, and so on. To show that these are not just "guys with gears, guys with bolts and guys with spanners", but real heirs of peoples who are different in essence, but close in origin.
Omg Iron Fists is spot on 😂😂
The worst thing is they have a better colour scheme than their original legion! - Cal
You’re painting up Ferrus?
How fitting, I’m painting up my EC. These videos are brilliant for painting btw, love this channel and the insights I’ve gained into colour theory have been great for my projects.
I also enjoy the sketch of that Iron Hand who has the Cyborg Superman face going on, that image made me want to do a force of them
A client gave me every single primarch to do up, first was Vulkan then was him but economy did economy things and so he had to slow down on his commissioning - Cal
I'm a really big fan of the redesign at the end.
Nice! I'm glad you liked it, it did make me feel like there was more to them afterwards ~Sunny
Can't wait to see what you guys come up with for the fabled XIth Legion! I will be watching in pieces due to being at work and studying though
Thanks, we appreciate the support even if it is in pieces 😊 - Cal
@@SWATDRUMMUH it's all good man, your excitement is support enough hope you liked our redesign ideas for this legion ~Sunny
Sunny's redesign was veey interesring using mountain motifs and silver traits. Could purple eyes also show closeness to Emperor's children? Hmm simrthing to ponder.
@@abgea I guess purple eyes could be seen as a nod to the emperor's children too, but I think that's quite specific to draw that from a glance but I do feel that adding a bit of that gold and purple did help make them feel that much more different to iron warriors it's very interesting how changing just a small aspect of something can make a drastic difference at times ~Sunny
Don't lose your head, Imperial Citizen.
Apparently the Reddit about iron hands will ban you for such comment ha ha but, that's second hand info - Cal
58:07 it is like listening to kenpachi and yachiru
I don't know these ones 😔 - Cal
56:24 Horus caught them all, didn’t end well for him lol
Got catch em all we're not about STDs you and me catch em all not talking about chaos gods either - Cal
Great video! As bland as vanila iron hands can be, your banter made this fun as hell to listen to. Your observations about them are spot on, i think.
My thoughts went down a different path when i decided IH was going to be my chapter.
After converting my intercessors with bionics and MK3 bits, as much as i loved the result, they felt somewhat bland. So when it came time to do my bladeguard, who felt decidedly not iron handsy, i really wracked my brain to come up with something.
Aaaand my mind kept circling back to Ferrus' (heavily implied) melty Necron hands.
I'm not fully set on the specifics of the whys and hows but i kinda envision a sub faction within the chapter that has a 'defeat necron and integrate their tech' as a rite of passage
Neon green eye glow, red/orange vents necron bits fused to armor and glowy green alien swords
Think deathwatch sergeant with phase sword but amped up to eleven across most of the army, inluding vehicles
Talking out of turn, that's a purging.
Looking out the window, that's a purging.
Looking at my sandals, that's a purging.
Being a member of a Xenos race, you best believe that's a purging.
Answering a comment late, you better believe that's a purging! - Cal
@WhatareyouPaintingnow I was on the verge of unsubscribeing but then you replied and now I'm sad there isn't a tier higher than elite 😞😞😞😞 (finger returns to hovering over the "unsubscribe" button, impatiently waiting for next reply)
@rumbleroocomics I clicked the love button does that help? - Cal
Can we get a raven guard episode soon?
We are at number 11 currently, but we have news coming on design vs lore that I think you will like - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow ohh yall are going in order, dammnn bro i gotta lot to wait then
maybe not as long as you think... we have an announcement which we will be doing soon, keep an eye out - Cal
44:05 they were beautiful beautiful cool vampires (totally not vampire romance fuel) and then they were made into red boring tofu.
But hey I fixed the red tofu in the end 😉 ~Sunny
This is a great series concept. The Ferrus Manni are not my boys, but I'll be looking forward to when you tackle the Sons of Vulkan...
And if you ever get heretical and do the Xenos XP
We are going in order of legion number so we will eventually get to the salamanders and if you like this series check out our videos on what your colourscheme says about you we cover some Xenos in that too ~Sunny
I do wanna bring up the that horus heresy iron hands where foom guy levels of rage legit executing naval officers for failing to nab pirates the giga chad that was shadrack meduson who legit took all the survivors of istavan 5 and fucked up the traitors so much that even horus knew his name. Modern iron hands are pure ice cold battle logic yes you got thebone guy who fucked over the raven guard (he feel to chaos so its not the best example) BUT wrath of iron shows who theyll legit scarified almost a whole titian legion and guardsman regiments to stop this chaos ritual and because of that they did.
Like I said in the second half of video, for them it's more pre and post Istvan - Cal
I cant wait until they get ti the 11th leigion, the "Human People" with their Primarch "Homer Sapian"
Incorrect it would Human Sapian, Homer Sapian is too subtle! - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow but they.would go for the full Latin Homo Sapien then. So it makes sense the 11th was purged....No Homo lol.
Honestly? Alas the poor Iron Hands. They're kinda casualties of the changing times. Back in the day, before the Admech proper were on the tabletop, the closest you could get to their aesthetic, with the cybernetic arms, mechadendrites and the like, were the Iron Hands. They were the closest you could get to actually playing an Admech Army. Nowadays, a lot of players that would otherwise play Iron Hands just play Admech.
I think that's a fair assessment, but I also think it is because they haven't been supported as much - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnowIt's a bit of a chicken or the egg situation there I think. Are they lesser played because they're not supported or not supported because they're lesser played? Probably both.
I like them, they remind me of the cylons from BSG
It’s sooo close the best legion……
Blood for the Blood God
Skulls for the 12th!!!!!!
Also really excited to see what you two do for the 11th.😮
@@gilbertgarnica7896 well well you can't tell me too much or else it will ruin the surprise for me hehehe 🤫 I too wonder what we will come up with ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow sorry friend I’m just excited
@@gilbertgarnica7896 Don't worry we will get there we are making our way through - Cal
You would 100% reading of Little Manus in the book Lord of excess.
I am not joking that is a name and jt is perfection.
Sorry I am a little confused by what you mean by "You would 100% reading of Little Manus" could you please clarify for us please? - Cal
but but im a Mechanic and i like Wrenches and gears.....im no boring🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺
But you probably have more stuff than just those 😂~Sunny
The Iron Hands have the big problem of being a mostly Horus Heresy themed legion. Not only are they the Vanguard at Istvan V, they had a whole thing with continuing to go after the Traitors for the early Heresy with Shadrak Medusan.
Further, the Iron Hands have a lot of color similarities to the Black Templars, Raven Guard, and Dark Angels.
Worse: their successor Chapters have more interesting lore!
Side Note- despite.havong similar mentality to the value of life, Ferus Manus and Perturabo differ in their personality. Manus was a cold warlord that wanted to achieve the best results, while Perturabo was an aggrieved workman that held deep spite for being made a warlord and took it out on the galaxy and his men.
@@tonlito22 I agree with what you say about their design and lore, of course I don't know much about their successor chapters but if I recall correctly it was a similar case with the imperial fists too lore wise, their successors had more oomph. Coming up with an interesting redesign for the iron hands was tough ~Sunny
Why don’t you also look at vehicles?
Because these videos are long enough... And people don't have as strong and interest in vehicles - Cal
I don’t understand where you got the idea that Iron Hands created the basis upon which other legions built their tactics perhaps after the compliance of rust and their attempted emulation by other legions such as the iron warriors BUT all legions were based upon (in both tactics and structure) the legio bellicosa which was developed by the dark angels the first astartes during the unification wars; the dark angels similarly played a training and advisory role to the new legions whilst their numbers and culture grew which termed them the name ‘the uncrowned princes’
Это гордыня Первого легиона.
I do think that Iron hands lore has a lot of potential with their whole flesh is weak philosophy and quasi-Lovecraftian forbidden technology. but considering they got almost nothing in current setting, it is rather sad.
@@andrewkomlyev4877 they do feel like the forgotten legion that got squeezed in there don't they... ~Sunny
*Codices
How the redesing reloads?
I am sorry I don't follow - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow the redesigned marine, an arm attached to the bolter and a claw for hand, how does he reload?
Other hand or mechadendrites - Cal
You missed the part were Ferrus Manus didn't like the "the flesh is weak" part.
He wanted to lead his Legion back to trust in their humanity, after the Great Crusade.
I also didn't get that much of an arrogance vibe from Ferrus Manus. At least not to warrant the large part it took up in this video.
But they are the most boring of all Space Marines.
Well we did mention about how the legion didn't learn the true lessons from him because he was so distant from them ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow yes, but GW tried to make them more interesting by emphasizing that aspect a lot.
Didn't work 😂
I like the iron hands, shame how their lore has been handled. I really like the rage of a star contained by cold logic they are supposed to be, but it mostly gets lost with the cold logic part. This put me off the legion, combined with me not liking the yellow color of the 7th. I think im going iron warriors since they seem like the best of both worlds to me.
bingo
Bingo??? - Cal
Why are the iron hands so unloved. Unloved by their primarch, and unloved by GW 😢
Well if it helps nightlords weren't loved by their primarchs either so they are all lonely Bois ~Sunny
I simply don't understand why Games Workshop keeps neglecting Iron Hands as they are an playable faction. I'm with Sunny in this video, the fan arts shows more of the potential this legion has to actually be more interesting than it is right now.
Furthermore, I just hope the day GW stops overusing Ultramarines (yes, this whole commentary is a rampage against them, I'm tired of that legion being overpowered in every Warhammer 40k product when they're so generic) and rather focuses on these guys and other interesting chapters and legions, in lore and in games.
@@MasterSkirmisher I haven't played 40k but yes I think choosing a poster boy for the branding is fine but also making them OP doesn't help... because why would you do that if you wanted to create marketable products for 20 legions and then now everyone will naturally swarm around one legion just because they can easily win the games with them. Doesn't make sense to me either ~Sunny