Sigurd Torvaldsson Nice catch. That confirms that Jaime had a crush for Ned. I mean, he gets mad & jealous when he hears that Ned is sending letters to Robert, not to him, lol. And before that battle outside whorehouse he gave precise explanation about cutting(shaving?) Ned's balls, lol.
Gotta love their performance here. Jaime mocks Ned a bit, but you can tell that he seeks Neds approval. I think he respects Ned Stark deep inside but he is too proud to admit it because hates the fact that Lord Eddard still believes him to be the dishonored kingslayer.
***** You are looking at it from a wrong point of view. He did what he had to do with the kid, it was not personal. He was always jealous of Ned getting more spotlight than him and wanted to prove himself to Ned.
Slackerphilosopher Well, me personally, I would cut out his thong and cut off his hands, so he cant rant out or write down what he saw... Though he could still do it with his feet somehow.... better cut them off too.
+Rishikesh Balakrishnan No its wildly hypocritical. Ned is mad at him for betraying the mad king on one hand and mad at him for serving him on the other.
Actually no if he was not a kingsguard then he wouldve been ok wit jaime serving him, the fact that jaime was a kingsguard changes everythin hes gotta serve the king no matter wat
Rishikesh Balakrishnan That is extremely bad moral reasoning. He should serve a megalomaniac who would have murdered 500,000 people and killed his family because of an oath?
+KingLink95 Yes. In medieval societies, oaths were MUCH more important than human lives. Especially lowborn lives who counted for nothing. (Ned is different from the honor-bound knights like Barristan or Dayne though, he does pay a lot of attention to the small people. See the first council meeting with Varys about the butcher's son, or when the Mountain is outlawed for bullying peasants). But Ned is ok to start a rebellion which cost their lives to tens of thousands soldiers just because two of his family members were 'murdered' (we'll never know the truth) by the king, and his sister abducted. Same thing with Robb. A well-known example of what breaking a holy oath meant in the Middle Ages : www.normaninvasion.info/harolds-pledge-to-duke-of-normandy.htm So yes, Jaime was honor-bound to the king, he should have protected him no matter what. Betraying him was perfectly understandable, but then he should have been sent to the Wall (or stripped of the white cloak at the very least). You can't always both keep your honor and do what your consciousness tells you. You've got to choose. Jaime chose, but didn't really pay the price.
Edgar P. Well then Jaime is more enlightened than his backwards medieval peers which makes him a more moral person not less. Also, Ned was perfectly justified in rebelling against a murderous mad king.
This is a magnificently nuanced scene. Jaime is basically trying to explain himself to a person he admires but he is too used to only act smug and he makes it look like he is just trying to extort Ned’s gratitude to humiliate him. He’s like trying to express your feelings to your crush but instead you fuck up and act cocky because your an insecure wreck.
Ned was super unfair to judge Jaime for slaying his King without asking to hear his story. Ned was a supremely honourable man but he was completely wrong in his hatred of Jaime Lannister for killing the Mad King. Like, damn Ned, just ask him why. If you heard that story that Brianne heard, you'd be calling him the biggest hero of the last 300 years. It's actually hypocritical that Ned criticises him for watching that execution of of his Kin but then also judging him for turning on his (evil) king that they themselves were trying to depose. He seems to imply that Jaime should have turned and halted the execution, but he also seems to admonish him for breaking his oaths and turning later. Ned is a good man, but he's blind to the possibility of goodness in the grey areas, it seems.
@@danielbliss2643 Edmure had more of point considering the atrocities against the North at that point. Ned did not have a point. Jaime DID do the right thing then. I guess it still burns a man of honor the same way though.
+Rosebunse There were 2 right answers here: First leave the service of the king when the rebelion started, perhaps joining them! Second stay loyal until the very end, after all Aerys burned a lot of people before Tywin sacked the capital. But he did the most convenient thing, leaving the losing side when everything is lost.
+MrFantocan Thank you! The show doesn't take this past history detailed like the books, but what Ned Stark hated about Jaime and the lannisters in general, is the fck convenient shit, like the assault on the capital and the murder of aerys when the war was already decided.
Pedro Avellar I guess another fact that makes Jaime so disgusting is that Aerys was going to burn down the entire city, wich means Jaime was saving his own skin, with thousands of others yes, but still.
That's right. It's very odd for me that people started to like Jaime because he has "changed" somehow. He lost his hand and can't fight anymore, suddenly becomes Mr. Nice guy. And one more fact, when Tyrion was married and Tywin tricks him to believe that his wife was a whore, Jaime knew she wasn't and didn't tell Tyrion anyway.
+Pedro Avellar It was the kill father and genocide part that drove him to turn. His service up until then could still be considered a matter of honor. Sir Baristan also didn't turn when the mad king went crazy. But would he have done any different in the kingslayer's shoes?
Jaime and Neds relationship is like that kid in high school who you want to like you and be "friends" with but he just flat out doesn't like you and you resent him for it.
"Jaime was never the bad guy". He's the guy that just weeks before tried to kill Eddard stark's kid by throwing him from a tower for self-preservation. Jaime wanted to be seen as honorable, but Eddard could read the quality of his character. Ned in Jaime's place did not shove a sword into Cersei or Joffrey; he wanted them placed under guard, even after Joffrey was crowned king. And then Ned hadn't sworn an oath to protect Joffrey's life as Jaime had to Aerys. I say this all as someone who regards Jaime as one of my favorite characters.
How Jaime has changed throughout the series. At first I really disliked him and now he is one of my favorite characters. Great acting by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau.
But in this scene he's sort of trying to reach out to Ned and explain what happened, though in his own smug asshole kind of way, but Ned won't listen, he just stands there with disgust all over his face, and many shared Ned's feelings. Probably the only way for Jaime to retain a sense of dignity is to be the tough smug guy who doesn't give a shit. Not that he isn't also an egotistical killer and so on, but still.
+xyhmo If only he had humbled just enough to explain to Eddard the same way he explained it to Brienne... But then again, how would he *ever* come up with that idea by this time? He wasn't very popular, probably thought that acting tough was the best way out. Damn it, Jaime!
He didn't actually change too much from his original. The biggest difference is us seeing him more with his facade down compared to then when he put up a facade to show he didn't regret what he had done and to not hurt the family name.
Ned Stark basically saved Robert's ass at the Battle of the Bells, fought by his side at the Trident, went down to Kings Landing to put Tywin in check, to Storms End where he forced Mace Tyrell and Paxter Redwine to dip their banners without a fight and finally down to Dorne to defeat the real King's Guard including "The White Bull" Gerold Hightower, "Sword of the Morning" Arthur Dayne and Oswald Whent .Ned was one of the great warriors of Westeros.
***** Only in a "Tywin mocks the idea of Joffrey being the most powerful man in Westeros" way -- the north remained part of the Seven Kingdoms through tradition and Ned/Robert's friendship more than any other ties.
+Veritas Invictus Don't forget he was also at the Trident and that he fought against the Greyjoys during their rebellion 5 years after Robert's rebellion.
+Veritas Invictus He also went south to return Arthur Dayne's sword "Dawn" to his sister Ashara and bang her brains out before going back to Winterfell holding a bastard in his hands without running the risk of giving a single fuck about it to Catelyn, other than the mandatory fucks required to impregnate her. He was a fucking boss.
That's conjecture, we don't know if Ned fathered Jon, if anything his honor would have precluded it. He didn't 'go south' to return Dawn,he went to rescue Lyanna and found three of the finest Kingsguard in front of the Tower of Joy in Dorne. When he defeated Hightower,Whent and Arthur Dayne ,only him and Howland Reed surviving, he took Dawn to House Dayne as it was their ancestral sword. If the Lannisters had possessed the same honor "Ice" would have been sent to Robb Stark instead of being split into two swords,one going to the little bastard King Joffrey and the other given to the Kingslayer, who in turn gave it to Brienne and named it "Oathkeeper".
@Ved Singh because Ned is like "omg how dare you just sit there and let my dad die" and then implying Jaime betrayed the king out of opportunism. even Robert was like "seven hells Ned, someone had to kill aerys"
@@ronrivero1039 Nobody knew about this "injury" until after the fight. Manny even signed papers saying he was injury free. Real men don't make excuses.
@@AIONBERSERKER like TBE? The Best Excuse? We all know Mayweather got spies all over on Pacman. Just admit it, for 5 years people, celebs are telling Mayweather to fight Pacman, and he always says "I don't need to fight him to prove I am the best." LMAO. sneaky niggah cheatin
“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them. “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell. “When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.” “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.” “I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.” “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne. “Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold. Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three. “And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light. “No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”
In the books his character arc is fantastic, in one chapter he has a dream/epiphany where he is alone in the darkness and naked with only a sword, everyone he loves leaves him and the only person who stands by his side is Brienne of Tarth. it's this dream that makes Jaime go back for her.
Thoughts on Jamie season to season: S1: Dude fucks his sister? And attempts to kill Bran? Fuck this guy S2: Hehe look now he's all muddy S3: Looks like he could use a hand S4: This guy's alright actually S5: GO JAIME GO!
Krisb BeatS haha yes they turned him face very slowly..in wrestling jargon..it was a well made swerve..he was the guy whose guts ihated most in s1..but then he gradually made sense and become an underdog when he lived in mud.
I think Ned's biggest problems with the Lannisters was their timing. Tywin didn't join the rebellion and Jaime didn't kill the king until victory was guarenteed. If they truly thought the mad king deserved to die, they should have done something about it from the begining. By waiting until it was safe to kill him, Ned thinks that they are just opportunist who will betray anyone if it benefits them... which is totally true.
Jaime is such a misunderstood character with so much depth, complexity and innate good, his relationship with Tyrion is just pure warmth. My favour character of all time.
"Jaime was never the bad guy". He's the guy that just weeks before tried to kill Eddard stark's kid by throwing him from a tower for self-preservation. Jaime wanted to be seen as honorable, but Eddard could read the quality of his character. Ned in Jaime's place did not shove a sword into Cersei or Joffrey; he wanted them placed under guard, even after Joffrey was crowned king. And then Ned hadn't sworn an oath to protect Joffrey's life as Jaime had to Aerys. I say this all as someone who regards Jaime as one of my favorite characters.
Jaime tried saving the people of King's Landing (people who didn't give two sh*ts about him), and broke his oath by killing the Mad King Aerys who was going to burn all of King's Landing with Wild Fyre. Cersei locked the gates and put the people in the open courts of King's Landing when Danerys was coming with her dragon. So Dany fulfilled what Aerys was intending. She burned most of King's Landing and its people!
It is interesting to see people dog Ned for being dismissive of Jaime. The fact is we benefit from hindsight which is something Ned Stark does not have the luxury of. Jorah Mormont and Jaime Lannister made it apparent that Ned Stark's greatest flaw is expecting people to follow the same code of honor that he himself follows and as such Stark is more likely to jump to conclusions than the others.
But it's a bullsh*t sentiment because Ned says, "Oh you just stood there and let it happen", as if he is culpable or had any say in Ned's father's death or anyone's death. Jaime was forced onto the oath at 15 years old, so he was very young and by oath had to allow the King to do as he pleased. So Jaime kept his oath and honored his duty and did as he was told. But then gives him no respect for finally stopping the madness by killing the monster that needed to be killed to stop the unjust murder of hundreds or thousands of people.
@@REB4444 Ned's not treating him as if he was culpable. He's just indicating why Jamie's supposed sympathy for his dead father and brother doesn't mean much.
Well look at it from Ned's point of view. He arrived to King's Landing only to see it sacked and in ruins by the Lannisters. He goes to the Red Keep to find Jaime slitting his own King's throat coincidentally at the same time as when Tywin Lannister sacked the city. Jaime had many chances to kill the King before but he only did it when he knew he was going to be safe. If that's all I knew, obviously I would've have been pissed.
You know what really amazes me? How Jaimie Lannister is desperate for Ned Stark validation. He doesn't normally care about other people. I'd say deep down, he admires Stark.
@@xgalarion8659 I think you hit the nail. Jamie always believe in the story of honor and knighthood...etc. The problem is that he later found out that the Kingsguard was not nearly as glorified as he thought. He was delusional of the Kingsguard. Yet, I think he still look for the honor and glory, and thus seek approval from known glorified and honorable men, like Ned Stark.
@@Chemicalkinetics Jaime only cared about two things. Cersei, and being an honorable knight. Never cared for power, money on even popularity. Yet, his concept of "honor" is different than Ned's concept of honor. All the "knightly" characters of Game of Thrones have a slightly different understanding of what honor means. Think about Ned, Loras, Jaime, Bryenne. They all are alike each other, but different at the same time. They share their disdain for power and richness.
He idolized "honourable" men and skilled fighters- Ser Barristan Selmy, the Blackfish, Ser Duncan- and Ser Arthur Dayne above all. And then Lord Eddard Stark, who's not only a honourable man to begin with but also only a couple years older than he is, comes along and somehow *beats* his number one idol, Ser Arthur Dayne. Of *course* he admires Ned.
It says something about how well written (and acted) this show is that, looking back, I feel so sorry for Jaime here. When I first saw this my only reaction was "YES Ned, teach that arrogant prick a lesson". 4 sleeps to season 6...
+EnglishableOscar The thing about this scene was....maybe Jaime did act in good faith when he shoved the sword in Targaryeons back....but it was BS attempt for sympathy, because Jaime and Ned were both standing there knowing, Jaime chucked his son off the Tower.
+Scott Grimes HAHAHA wow I did not realise that... I guess you can see that even through Jamie's rapidly developing character, his major flaw will always be his love/lust for Cersei
+EnglishableOscar I never liked Ned. He always seemed the judgemental hater type. He says Jamie chooses his opponents wisely but Ned won't step to Jamie cause he'll get fucked up.
+Kingslayer Ned doesn't know about the Wildfyre plot due to Jamie's silence. Thus, looking at Jamie from Ned's perspective makes the Kingslayer's actions seem more opportunistic, especially when timed with Tywin's betrayal and brutal sack of King's Landing.
RuthlessLieutenant im sorry so Ned dissed Jamie for killing the king who... Ned came to kill too? is it bcos he took the pleasure off him? :D no but srsly. why the dislike?
Ned was right on this one ''You served him well, when serving was safe''... I don't think he hate Jamie in particular, he hate all the men who stood and did nothing to save his family...
See that's where I get a little fuzzy on Ned, he looks down at Jaime for killing the King, yet in the same breath looks down on him for not disobeying the King when his Family were burnt. If he were truly a man of honor then Ned would of understood why Jaime and the others couldn't do a single thing to help his family. It's one of the reasons I love the show (Not read the books as of yet) because there are so many variables you can love/hate so many different characters without any of it being black and white.
***** Well, everyone hates joffrey. :) By the way, i disagree. He could have done something. He could have killed the mad king and end his tyranny. Or at least try to say something. He could also be able to break his oath, flee and join the rebels. But he did nothing. As Aeris abused his wife and one of the Kingsguard wanted finaly do something, he even stopd him by saying: "You have sworn to protect him. Not to judge him." There was no evidence, none at all, that he opposed against the king, until the war was allready decided. I do not know if he did it to protect himself or his family, but that was not honorable.
+Slackerphilosopher Not sure what the exact answer is, but there are ways to make yourself look more confident. Having good posture is a good place to start, it makes you walk with what looks like confidence. Next be comfortable with yourself or at least act like you are comfortable and in control of yourself. Speak clearly and with purpose. All those things increase your confidence and how confident you appear tenfold.
Be a world class swordsman and be born into the perhaps most powerful family in the realm, and have a lot of enemies who hate your guts and engage in psychological warfare (like this scene) with them on a regular basis.
None of you seem to understand this scene. Jaime Lannister is jealous of Ned Stark, the way every lord and every peasant have nothing but good things to say about him, is the way Jaime wants to be treated. Ned Stark is the hero of the rebellion, the man who lost half his family and changed an empire. It's even questioned why Ned didn't declare the throne for himself. Since Jaime was a boy all he wanted to be was a hero Knight, he idolised the Blackfish, Selmy and Dayne. He wanted to be a Kingsguard. He became a member of the Kingsguard only as political weapon against Tywin, the mad king robbed him of his heir. He thought in no battles he remained in KingsLanding as a hostage. He killed The Mad King to save KingsLanding but he also failed Rhaegar, Rhaegar left him to protect his wife and children and they were slaughtered while Jaime sat on the Throne. Ned judged him as what he was, Tywins son. Tywin did not declare a side during the war but when it was lost came to aid the Capital the sacked it. He gave the order to kill the Elia and her children. So when Ned sees the destruction of KingsLanding by LANNISTER soldiers and sees the King killed by Jaime.... You find a Coward who switched sides at the very end. Jaime thinks that because he's faithful to Cersei and that Ned had a "bastard" he's more honorable...... Oh how he's mistaken.
I wouldn't say he's jealous of ned at all, he just wants him to understand that he honestly didn't do anything wrong, and it's explained in the bath scene with brienne
@@PapaSmurff660 Yea Jaime is not jealous of Ned but just wants him to understand where he is coming from. It's probably quite confusing on Jaimie's part why Ned hates him for literally killing his father and brother's killer.
@@maxb8749(From Ned's POV) Jaime acted only when it was convenient to him. He was fine with the king butchering people as long as he was on the winning side, then decided to kill him when he had already lost the war.
Jaime tried saving the people of King's Landing (people who didn't give two sh*ts about him), and broke his oath by killing the Mad King Aerys who was going to burn all of King's Landing with Wild Fyre. Cersei locked the gates and put the people in the open courts of King's Landing when Danerys was coming with her dragon. So Dany fulfilled what Aerys was intending. She burned most of King's Landing and its people! Cersei basically did the exact opposite of Jaime!
For those who don't know why Jaime is quite afraid of Ned is because Ned reputedly defeated Arthur Dayne and two other Kingsguard members, and led an army victoriously in Robert's Rebellion; Ned sees Jaime as a lowly backstabber. He later tells Brienne how much it grieves him that he doesn't have Ned's approval.
@@Argos-xb8ek Or Ned just read him like a book, he is after all the guy who said in season 8 that he didn't care about the people and went back to Cercei
@@Argos-xb8ek it's a pretty big detail that Jaime admires him...in both media. If you think Ned is self-righteous you either miss the point or you don't know what 'self-righteous' truly means. Ned isn't high on himself. He is how he is because of how his family raised him, and his values and rules are shared by others in his house and even others in the North. It's not JUST Ned, and he isn't posturing...he truly believes the world runs according to his sensibilities....that's why people call him naive. The High Sparrow might be self-righteous...using his extreme views of what he believes the gods want as weapons to gain power. Ned admires others like Ser Barristan for also doing what's right or honorable. Ser Barristan also suffers the shortcomings this brings. It's just righteousness if you can call it anything....it's not self indulgent or self interested, which is what self-righteous means when coupled with a flimsy rule code
I really felt bad for Jaime in this scene. You can tell that he respects Ned, and was looking for his understanding, then Ned being the stubborn self-righteous fool he is, just throws it back in his face. The Mad King deserved a far worse death than the one Jaime gave him.
***** I think the line from the bath house was the most telling: "You think the honourable Ned Stark wanted to hear my side? He judged me guilty the moment he set eyes on me." This is the persona Jaime and character Jaime had been playing up to for nearly 20 years. Being looked down upon and spoken like shit to for killing a King that deserved death many times over. That's who he became, the cocky, smug cunt. Granted he was always arrogant, but that's the price of being too good too young. You can see the look on his face when he says the line "it felt like justice" and how his face changes when Ned throws it back at him. He looked genuinely wounded. I think he thought that after enough time had passed, that Ned would be maybe the one person who would maybe not thank but at least accept that killing the Mad King was the right thing to do.
+Rekka Riley The Mad King was going to raze Kings Landing,that was the apparent reason.Not to mention Aerys ordered Jamie to bring him his Father's(Tywin) head.
+Luke47895 I did like Ned, but I think like he followed the rules far too hard. DOES HE NOT REALIZE WHAT THE MAD KING WAS DOING? Jaime may not be a saint, but he had his reasons. Ned and his honor. Ridiculous. You really sometimes have to bend and break the rules to prevent shit from going down.
Jaime doesn't betray Mad King. Ned: "You just stood there and watched." Jaime kills Mad King. Ned: "You stabbed him in the back." Jaime: "There's no pleasing you, is there?"
Performing his duty to the end is something Ned would appreciate, like Gerold, Oswell and Arthur did, they were there as well and he never talked them down.
I wondered that at first too, but I think Ned's point at the end there was that Jaime waited to exact his so-called "justice" only when it was safe for him to do so; i.e., when there was no one else around to punish him for it. I don't think Ned saw it as justice since there was no bravery behind it, nothing risked. Granted he didn't know the additional context concerning the Mad King calling for Tywin's head or the burning of the entire city; perhaps if he did, he'd view Jaime differently.
@@TheMidnightPhilyou're absolutely right in your description of Ned. I think that his stubborn conception of honour made refuse to hear Jaime's side. If he did, I wonder if he would still chide jaime as harshly as he did
@@TheMidnightPhil Or maybe he just saw Jamie as the type of guy who would push a young boy off a tower, say that he doesn't care about the people (season 8) and run back to his evil queen, who knows.
Deep down Jaime always had respect for honourable men such as Selmy dayne and Ned. No doubt it was hard for him to be judged by honourable men and called kingslayer. Very beautifully written and complexed character. Loved him.
Funny enough, these two have more in common than either of them ever knew. Ned allowed his reputation to be tarnished by claiming Jon Snow as his bastard and that he broke his marriage vows when the truth was he was protecting his sister's son Aegon from the certain death he would face if the king ever knew there was a living Targaryen in Westeros. Jaime allowed his reputation to be tarnished by letting people believe that he broke his vow and killed his king just to save his own life when in reality, the king was the first of the two to break his vow by commanding Jaime to kill his own father. Both are men of great honor, who allowed their reputation to be destroyed by others' misunderstanding of events when the truth is, the things that ruined each of their reputations are quite possibly the most honorable things either of them ever did
Eddard Stark: The man who can in two simultaneous sentences first chide a man for not killing his king to save two men then chide him again for killing his king to save the kingdom. This actually illustrates something I love about this show. I love Ned, he's my favorite character and he's a truly good man, but he's not perfect at all. This show just happens to be a step more realistic than most; it's heroes if there are any are flawed humans who are susceptible to irrationality and selfishness, while it's villains are shown to be ruthless but still have human emotions and fear and desire and even sometimes a sense of justice. Every character is really just a human doing human things, and it's exceedingly rare to find a show that has that.
Good point but actually Ned is right that Jaime served Aerys well when it was easy and killed him when they have been defeated. Jaime could have killed Aerys much earlier and save the kingdom from many injustices if he trully cared about justice, but he didn't. When he did Aerys would have been dead either way because his army was defeated when Robert killed Rhaegar at the Trident.
billyyo13 Ned didn't have a problem with the fact that Jaime failed to kill the mad king sooner, no he had a problem with the fact that he killed him at all. And besides, Jaime waited until the pyromancer and the king were about to burn the city before finally turning, when it was obvious the rebels would win as soon as the gates were opened for Tywin Lannister, so not only is Ned wrong in his judgement from not knowing all the facts, he's wrong even from the facts he does know. I don't know if Jaime is right that Ned would still have judged him the same if he knew the whole story, but he knew enough to know that Jaime did not act in his own interest and he still labeled him kingslayer. It's just that there's a taboo in the society of Game of Thrones that's hard to understand from someone not from it. To you or me there's nothing sacred or special about the oaths we take, we don't believe in being bound to service, but in the very first episode we saw how seriously they take that shit when a man was executed because he tried to save his own life. Royalty being factually more important than commoners is a literal fact to most everyone in Westeros.A reversal of the idea would be how seriously we take something like pedophilia, when in this world it's probably not unheard of to wed a creepy old man to a 14 year old girl. They wouldn't understand how messed up that is to us because they have different cultural values.
Bainbow No but that's Jaime's account. Eddard said that when he entered the throne room he found Jaime sitting on the Iron throne and that "on seeing Eddard, Jaime got off the Iron Throne, joking that he was just keeping it warm for Robert". To me what mattered mostly was that Aerys demanded his father's head. Since he already killed the pyromancer and since Eddard with his army was literally seconds away it was unnecessary to kill Aerys. Plus I don't really trust a guy who tried to kill a boy and conspired against two Hands to hide his affair with his sister.
billyyo13 I'm pretty sure he didn't say that because it hadn't even been decided that Robert would be king yet. In fact I don't remember anything even close to that. What episode is that from?
Just stood there when two men were dying? Coward. Killed the psychopathic monarch before he could slaughter thousands? Oathbreaker. Jaime Lannister gets the shittiest PR. The only one who gets it as bad is Tyrion, in that regard.
The only ones who knew about the wildfire plan was the mad king, the pyromancer and Jaime, and well later Brienne. You can't judge people for calling him Kingslayer when they don't know what would have happened if he didn't kill the mad king. Still everything Ned said is valid, you have to look at the circumstances. When something "heroic" is accompanied with a possibility of something "selfish" (such as saving your own skin) the judgement will always remain in the grey area.
Ned's point was that Jaime is hypocritical by claiming nobility for killing the mad king when the war was already won, when it would have actually been noble to stand up to him when no one else would. To Ned's eyes, Jaime served the Mad King loyally when he had power and betrayed him when it was profitable. The same man who comes to Ned decades later and claims that his act of betrayal was actually a bold decision in the name of justice; it looks like a coward who has broken one of the highest vows you can take and then desperately tried to rationalize his decision after the fact. With the information Ned has, it's completely natural that his reaction to Jaime is disgust.
+oldenvye6432 Because Jamie killed his king, and betrayed his vows. That is punishable by death. Eddard called it murder and wanted him executed, but Robert Baratheon pardoned Ser Jamie Lannister the Kingslayer.
That's the thing, Ned doesn't see right through him. Ned has never learned about the reason why Jaime killed the king, that he saved thousands of people by the deed.
+TheSchemer1 BY EVERY RIGHT! Jamie betrayed his king and vows as a kingsguard. that is punishable by death. Eddard Stark called it murder, but Ser Jamie Lannister the Kingslayer was pardoned by Robert Baratheon.
How dare he get rid of a complete monster king worse than Joffrey and save loads of lives from wildfire, letting all of King's Landing die would be the far more moral option of course - Ned Stark and Ser Barristan are moral cowards for not seeing Jaime's logic.
This is why Jamie couldn't beat him in the sword fight, Ned has psychologically damaged Jamie Lannister. Ever since Ned ran him off the Iron Throne after Jamie killed the Mad King, Ned just keeps getting the better of him in every exchange, verbal or otherwise. Ned even killed his hero Arthur Dayne, and Jamie can't wrap his mind around how he did it (of course Howland Reed knows how he did it) LOL. All Jamie ever wanted was for Ned Stark to respect him, as much as he respects Ned, but Ned just keeps spiting it back in his face like a boss. More than a year after Ned's death, Jamie was still crying in bathtubs about how Ned would shit on his honor. Babbling on about how lions don't answer to wolves, LOL. I've grown to like Jamie as the series has gone on, but Ned was just too alpha for Jamie, and Ned's lack of appoval was literally killing Jamie inside.
It's nice to see a series which shows that even those characters, which some would call "the good guys", have human weaknesses, such as Ned's black&white view of honour, compaired to Jamie's much more ambigious, but more flexible sense of morality. These character are human, all too human.
0:06 Would have been a familiar sight for Ned seeing Jamie there. After Jamie killed the mad king Ned was one of the first people on the sight, he found Jamie sitting on the iron throne with his sword across his knees and the mad king dead at his feet. So you can almost imagine what it would look like.
At first I viewed Jaime as a first class douche. Watching this 4 seasons later made me realize Ned Stark was the one who truly was the douche to Jaime. Ned is way too honorable but little does did he know Jaime saved half a million lives by slaying the king.
The point Ned was making by saying you served him well when serving was safe is, is that he could have cut down the mad King when his father was about to be burned. Jamie only killed the mad King when his father had already taken kings landing and he knew he would be safe.
+Rekka Riley But this doesn't invalidate Ned's perspective because Ned isn't given any reason to doubt it. Jamie never told anyone the truth about why he killed the Mad King. He even had a chance to tell both his father and Ned Stark, but refused either because he didn't think they'd believe him or out of pride. "By what right does that wolf judge the lion?" Couple Jamie's apparent self-interested betrayal with that of Tywin dishonorably backstabbing his king by killing, raping and pillaging King's Landing and ordering the Mountain and Lorch to murder and rape Rhaegar's family and Ned has all the more reason to distrust Jamie's motivations. Even if Jamie told Ned the truth, I doubt that would change anything considering that Ned later learns that Jamie crippled Bran when the poor boy caught Jamie doing the nasty with Cersei and Jamie tried to kill him.
When I first saw the show I hated Jamie and just saw him as a villain who was an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. Now after I have read the books, he has become my favorite character in the series. Even in this scene, you can tell that Jamie (who is dismissed by most other characters in the series to be a man without honor), subconsciously has a lot of respect for Ned (who is considered by most to be one of the most honor bound characters) and desperately wants Ned to respect him back, as if a nod of approval from the honorable Ned Stark would wash away some of the black mark left on his reputation after murdering the Mad King. When Ned just flat out refuses to believe that Jamie may have in fact acted because of his own sense of honor and justice, you can tell that it kind of cuts him deep. Even though I like Ned, his stubbornness pisses me off, and I think that it is mostly him and people like him who fucked Jamie up and made him the man he ultimately became. Jaime made a bold decision and did what arguably was the right thing when he was just a kid (17 or something). By breaking his oath and stabbing the mad king, he saved the lives of many innocent people in the city, but became despised for it ever since by everyone whom he could have possibly looked up to because they were so committed to their primitive view of honor. As a young squire, he idolized men of great renown and honor like Ser Arthur Dayne and Barristan Semly, and aspired to one day be known as a great and honorable knight himself. These men whom he respected and aspired to be, however, turned their backs on him and immediately wrote him off as traitor scum. This, I think, brutally crushed his dreams of ever becoming the knight he dreamed to one day be, causing him to invert his disapointmen and only display a cocky facade of a man who is not bothered by their scorn. This scene and several others, subtly show a sneak peak of the real Jamie, who, deep inside, is still hurting to be accepted into the ranks of "honorable" men. He is such a conflicted black/white character that I can't help but sympathize and love him.
***** Jaime said somewhere something like this to Cersei: "I'm not ashamed of loving you, but I'm ashamed of what I do to hide it." So he does respect Ned, he pushed Bran just to protect their secret - and "respect" doesn't mean he's going to just let Bran tell everyone and have himself killed. (Bran did plan on telling, it's in the books in his thoughts).
You guys don't seem to understand the difference. Ned fought Dayne and Reeds stabbed the back of Arthur's neck, when he had the chance. That's a fatal blow, sure death. Ned finished him off so he wouldn't have to suffer. Jaime just straight up wanted to killed Aerys. It doesn't matter if it was in the back or elsewhere, he made a move in order to kill the mad king, no need to get in front of him.
@@papay100 And if that person orders you to behead your own father and then burn 2 million people alive for literally no reason besides the fact that he's fkin nuts and thinks it will reincarnate him as a dragon? Does that make any difference?
This scene was the replica of When Ned walks into the throne room after Mad King's death, But Ned finds Jaime sitting on the Iron throne instead of steps.
Jaime’s confession w Brienne really puts the whole mad king betrayal into perspective...like gosh Ned, youre telling me u wouldnt stab the mad king in the back if he wanted u to burn down Kings landing?
This right here is always why I've respected Sean Bean as an Actrnover the years. Look closely at his eyes and facial expression when addressing Jaime.. He has no respect whatsoever for Jaime and he conveyed it beautifully with his facial expression like no one else.
I've got a lot of love for Ned - but he hates Jamie for killing the Mad King and breaking his vow, but then hates him for not stepping in with his brother and father. Pick a team!!!
Ned would have gotten over the fact that Jaime had killed Aerys to save people, and he would have forgiven Jaime in a short time if Jaime had never broken his vows, even if that meant dooming Ned's family. As it is, from Ned's point of view, Jaime does not care for honor OR for human life, making his reasons for letting Ned's family die and for killing Aerys utterly contemptible.
Jamie killed the mad king for justice, partly, in the book, Jamie was mad and angry when the mad king burned people alive with wild fire. and his commander told him: we are here to protect the king not to judge him...that proves somehow that Jamie has some decency and honor...well Ned stark was defending an other theory of honor and oath keeping but what would he do if he was ordered by an insane king to kill his own father?!!!
Hisham Dinari I agree. The scene with Brienne in the bathtub (S3EP5 Kissed By Fire) when Jaime opens up on why he killed the king, haunts me and moved me to tears even. "Tell me if your own precious Renly, commanded you to kill your father and stand by while thousands of men, women and children burned alive, would you have done it? Would you have kept your oath then?"
Hisham Dinari yes! The scene began to built up until that moment. And the song (Kingslayer) went perfectly with Jaime's confession. And then when he faints in Brienne's arms as she yells for the guards, he wanted to be referred to as Jaime. Even before I heard the back story, I had a feeling that Jaime's reasons in killing the mad king were justifiable. To me, Jaime was more of an arrogant asshole who needed a reality check. He got one and he's changed for the better for the most part.
What i love about this is Ned's response to Jaime’s monologue. You would expect anybody to agree with Jaime’s rationalisation, but Ned see’s through it. He know’s that Jaime’s word’s are empty. He even plays into a little bit, by suggesting that he would respect Jaime if he didn’t just stand there and watched, but then is critical of the notion that killing the Mad King was justified from Jaime’s position as a Kingsguard. He knows how much Jaime is seeking his approval and masterfully exposes this. Ned was better at the game than people realise.
Quite a sad scene now we know more about more about what actually happened. Jamie's arrogance was a front, he really just wanted to tell Ned what really happened.
"Jaime was never the bad guy". He's the guy that just weeks before tried to kill Eddard stark's kid by throwing him from a tower for self-preservation. Jaime wanted to be seen as honorable, but Eddard could read the quality of his character. Ned in Jaime's place did not shove a sword into Cersei or Joffrey; he wanted them placed under guard, even after Joffrey was crowned king. And then Ned hadn't sworn an oath to protect Joffrey's life as Jaime had to Aerys. I say this all as someone who regards Jaime as one of my favorite characters.
Jaime's behavior makes perfect sense. Seeing all the vows conflicting, and seeing how the world judges you no matter what you do, he just becomes jaded and cynical.
People misunderstood this scene. Eddard doesn't despise him because he stabbed him in the back, he despised him because Jaime killed him instead of just restraining him. Only when the balance of power shifted did he move. Jaime played the opportunist card and not the righteous one.
I think that last line really is the key; it's not just the perceived dishonor that came with betraying his charge, but that the timing seemed so opportunistic. To Ned, Jaime only killed the Mad King when it seemed like a forgone conclusion. He didn't know about the Mad King calling for Tywin's head and the burning of the city, of course, which may have changed things. But I guess we'll never know.
Maaaaaannnnnnn, I've only got one more episode to go until I've watched all they've made so far. This was so long ago for me! Now that I know the whole story, it changes everything! If only Ned knew the truth about Jaime's betrayal... damn...
+Joseph Easley That's the problem, Jaime never even tried to explain to Ned what happened and why anyone in his position would have done the same thing. I'm pretty sure Ned Stark would have killed the mad King to if he knew what he was going to do.
love how Jaime starts with "thank the gods you're here" when he doesn't even believe in the gods. When he later says to Catelyn "if the gods are real why is the world so full of injustice?" you realise the level of his sarcasm in this scene :D I love Jaime
The reason Ned chastizes him here is because he knows Jamie and believes the Kingslayer only slew the king when his own father's life was in danger and not Eddard's father/brother.
The classic counter productive hypocrisy of GoT characters: “I hate the Mad King because he wanted me dead and murdered my brother and father,” “I also hate the Kingslayer for deservedly killing the Mad King.” Lol.
I like how Ned doesn't necessarily dislike Jaimie for killing Aerys. He dislikes him because he only did it once it was clear he had to go turncoat. It wasn't breaking his oath that irks Ned, it's the fact it was only broken once It was convenient.
Shak He was wrong in how he treated Jamie after he killed the Mad king. Should have treated him as a savior of the city not a traitor. Wrong to support taking Tyrion hostage. Wrong not to trust Renly. Wrong about so so many things.
+ApertureClockwork Wrong on Jamie yes but not about supporting taking Tyrion. His wife made the choice and it would be wrong for him to oppose it as it would show dissent in his own family and that signals weakness. However Jamie was wrong on far more severe issues. Such as screwing his own sister and creating the monster Joffrey. Wrong in supporting the witch Cersei. Wrong by joining the kingsguard and waste his Lannister legacy. Wrong in being arrogant, leading to his hand being cut. Not to mention that he was wrong about by not realising that Tyrion would kill Tywin and thus throw the Lannister legacy into chaos and certain doom. Jamie has done very few things right. Killing the mad king was one and supporting his brother Tyrion the other. Not much else.
LegendInThaMakin Jaime is two years younger than Ned and who has Jaime killed other than some nameless people Ned battled in War's and slayed Kings Guard....
wildoxidizer jamie was the best swordsman in westoros at this time and the lord commander of the kings guard. Arthur dayne would have ended neds life if it wasnt for howland reed. Jamie has stated in book 3 that he was capable of beating arthur dayne himself with superior speed and skill, admitting that arthur dayne was indeed stronger than him. Jaime grew up around swordsman legends and was trained by each one of them including arthur dayne, barristan selmy and other greats that would laugh at the swordsmen of todays time. Briene of tarth also admitted in book 4 that when healthy and with both hands there was no man in the seven kingdoms that could beat jaime.
LegendInThaMakin Barristan Selmy is lord commander of the Kings-guard I'll have to reread the books again because I believe that was a miss quote on your part... “That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead.” - Jaime's thoughts on himself “Defeated in the Whispering Wood by the Young Wolf Robb Stark during the War of the Five Kings. Held captive at Riverrun and ransomed for a promise unfulfilled. Captured again by the Brave Companions, and maimed at the word of Vargo Hoat their captain, losing his sword hand to the blade of Zollo the Fat. Returned safely to King's Landing by Brienne, the Maid of Tarth” - Jaime writing of himself in the White Book
wildoxidizer Nope, Barristan Selmy was dismissed and relieved of his duty right after Robert Baratheon was killed remember? Jaime Lannister then became lord commander right after and remained lord commander through his capture all the way till he got back. Yes he wanted to be like the sword of morning when he was younger but he grew up, studying his style and in the beginning of book 3 (too lazy to find the quote), it was during his fight with brienne where he stated that his superior skill and speed was the reason he bested his opponents, he then implied he could have done the same to rhaegar and arthur there too. Yes im well aware of what Jaime wrote of himself in the white book (aka book of brothers). I am simply stating that in this scene right here in this youtube video where Jaime lannister had both hands and was perfectly healthy, he was the best swordsman in the 7 kingdoms. He became nothing shortly after he lost his hand, yes i know that. During the battle of black water tyrion recapped on what Jaime had told him about the beauty of battle. He says that Jaime says when he is in that zone, simple things like the weight of his armor is forgotten, everything seems to move in slow motion, he sees every swordsmans weaknesses, this was how extremely fast Jaime was, he simply slayed left and right. During the battle were he got captured by Rob Stark, he saw the battle was going south and all was lost, so he rode straight for rob, slaying left and right and effortlessly killing all that got in his way until he was finally subdued and captured. If no one stood in his way, Rob would have died right there and then. After Tyrion sends back the envoy to rescue Jaime from imprisonment, once again, he attained a sword and slayed and slayed and slayed until he was finally subdued and all his men were dead. Jaime was simply unstoppable with a sword in hand and no man dared challenged him to 1v1 combat, thats where he excelled the most. Like i said, Eddard Stark would be no match for Jaime Lannister if it came down to it. As soon as Arthur Dayne & Rhaegar died and Barristan Selmy fled to the eastern cities, Jaime no longer had any rivals.
nevrest I'd rather die or burn than serve a mad and evil king. I would have cut the bonds of the starks and gelp them escape than do evil deeds in the name of my king
+Jake Tryon For all they knew, the Starks who got burnt to death were no more than Northern conspirators trying to overthrow the king or to smear the reputation of the royal family. Would you have jumped with Tyrion out of the Moon Door in the Eyrie to protest against the rigged justice? No one said a word either. None of these self-righteous knights. Same thing with his most recent trial at KL. Bribed and/or threatened witnesses, false accusations, non neutral jury, etc. You wouldn't have moved your ass, because no one in KL gave a shit about the Starks, just like no one gave a shit about a Lannister in the Eyrie or a dead Martell/Targ during the sack of KL or an innocent Frey executed for his family's misdeeds.
I believe Ned was angry when he got reminded of gruesome deaths his brother and father suffered. I'd be pissed too if some glorified bodyguard reminded me of what happened to my family.
That's what is so great with this show. When I saw it the first time, I saw this scene as a confrontation between a noble protagonist and deceptive anti-hero. Once I read past a SoS, I realized that Jamie was an misunderstood protaganist, and Ned was a mis-informed protagonist as well.
Jaime gives a excellent speech later in the series in which he describes how the complex web of oaths and bonds of loyalty which grow around a knight over the course of a life time inevitably lead him into no win situations when those oaths and loyalties clash or contradict each other and, when often, no decision can be the "right" one.
I personally feel that Ned's dislike of Jaime is more about a hidden jealously than a sense of misguided honor. I would think that Ned wanted nothing more than to absolutely destroy Aerys for what he did to his father and brother, and to be so close to his revenge only to walk in and see that someone else beat him to it just robbed him of any sense of closure or justice.
This life is temporary. The soul is eternal. We all pay for the depravity we've inflicted on ourselves. It's the redemptive journey we all must endure to save ourselves. Brienne taught him this lesson. He's the most intriguing character in this show. All of us can relate to Jaime Lannister.
I love that last line of Ned's "You served him well. When serving was Safe" and those little Looks Ned keeps doing. Look at the unscathed armor. So simple an act yet so meaningful.
Both of them respect each other and both of them make a point here. Ned is reminding jamie of the meaning of loyalty and the risk that is included when picking sides. While Jamie is trying to make Ned realise that sticking purely to principle and loyalty even in the face of something that is wrong (mad kings rule) is also an unwise thing to do.
People criticizing Ned need to realize that Jaime never told ANYONE other than Brienne the truth behind the wildfire. Not Tywin, not Tyrion, not even Cersei. To everyone other than Brienne, Jaime killed Aerys to save his own ass. I'm not sure why he told no-one the truth behind the wildfire; perhaps he didn't want panic to run through the citizens of King's Landing. Jaime, and the rest of the Kingsguard, are expected to die for their King if needs be. Jaime did not, which makes him look awful. Truthfully, Ned would have done the same in that situation, I imagine; though you can't blame him for not knowing the truth behind the story.
and he didn't bother to find out, he assumed he knew what happened and why, he rode into the throne room on a horse while Jaime was sitting in the throne over the king he killed....not so much as a 'what happened' from dear ole nedless head, he passed judgement immediately...and that really hurt Jaime because at that moment he knew no one cared what his side of the story was
William Blackfyre Don't get me wrong, I love Jaime's character. If anything, he's my favorite character in the book. Had Eddard, or Barristan, or any of the other honorable men who scorned him for his actions been in his place, I imagine they'd have done the same (I think Barristan actually mentions a situation in which he'd feel forced to kill his King during his POV in the books)
I think that Jaime admired Ned and desperately wanted his respect.
That how book describes it.
Sigurd Torvaldsson Nice catch. That confirms that Jaime had a crush for Ned. I mean, he gets mad & jealous when he hears that Ned is sending letters to Robert, not to him, lol. And before that battle outside whorehouse he gave precise explanation about cutting(shaving?) Ned's balls, lol.
This is very true.
+Sigurd Torvaldsson And because he admired him that much, he decided to be an asshole in front of him. The things we do for love.
He admired Ned so much he tried to murder his toddler son.
Gotta love their performance here. Jaime mocks Ned a bit, but you can tell that he seeks Neds approval. I think he respects Ned Stark deep inside but he is too proud to admit it because hates the fact that Lord Eddard still believes him to be the dishonored kingslayer.
+myfavoritescenes I have thought about that, he seemed to always want to impress Ned but it always failed
***** You are looking at it from a wrong point of view. He did what he had to do with the kid, it was not personal. He was always jealous of Ned getting more spotlight than him and wanted to prove himself to Ned.
True dat. But Ned never really found out it was Jaime who did it.
Jaime pushing Bran was what most people would have done.
Slackerphilosopher Well, me personally, I would cut out his thong and cut off his hands, so he cant rant out or write down what he saw... Though he could still do it with his feet somehow.... better cut them off too.
you served him well when serving was safe...thats gotta be one of the most epic quotes
+Rishikesh Balakrishnan No its wildly hypocritical. Ned is mad at him for betraying the mad king on one hand and mad at him for serving him on the other.
Actually no if he was not a kingsguard then he wouldve been ok wit jaime serving him, the fact that jaime was a kingsguard changes everythin hes gotta serve the king no matter wat
Rishikesh Balakrishnan That is extremely bad moral reasoning. He should serve a megalomaniac who would have murdered 500,000 people and killed his family because of an oath?
+KingLink95 Yes. In medieval societies, oaths were MUCH more important than human lives. Especially lowborn lives who counted for nothing. (Ned is different from the honor-bound knights like Barristan or Dayne though, he does pay a lot of attention to the small people. See the first council meeting with Varys about the butcher's son, or when the Mountain is outlawed for bullying peasants). But Ned is ok to start a rebellion which cost their lives to tens of thousands soldiers just because two of his family members were 'murdered' (we'll never know the truth) by the king, and his sister abducted. Same thing with Robb.
A well-known example of what breaking a holy oath meant in the Middle Ages : www.normaninvasion.info/harolds-pledge-to-duke-of-normandy.htm
So yes, Jaime was honor-bound to the king, he should have protected him no matter what. Betraying him was perfectly understandable, but then he should have been sent to the Wall (or stripped of the white cloak at the very least). You can't always both keep your honor and do what your consciousness tells you. You've got to choose. Jaime chose, but didn't really pay the price.
Edgar P. Well then Jaime is more enlightened than his backwards medieval peers which makes him a more moral person not less. Also, Ned was perfectly justified in rebelling against a murderous mad king.
This is a magnificently nuanced scene. Jaime is basically trying to explain himself to a person he admires but he is too used to only act smug and he makes it look like he is just trying to extort Ned’s gratitude to humiliate him. He’s like trying to express your feelings to your crush but instead you fuck up and act cocky because your an insecure wreck.
He's a tsundere, lol
Dude, he mock ned first, what do you expect?
@holyforce7065 What? When exactly did Jaime mock him?
@@yolomcswaggens9482 i guess he means , when he said the king shit and the hand whip
Ned was super unfair to judge Jaime for slaying his King without asking to hear his story. Ned was a supremely honourable man but he was completely wrong in his hatred of Jaime Lannister for killing the Mad King. Like, damn Ned, just ask him why. If you heard that story that Brianne heard, you'd be calling him the biggest hero of the last 300 years.
It's actually hypocritical that Ned criticises him for watching that execution of of his Kin but then also judging him for turning on his (evil) king that they themselves were trying to depose. He seems to imply that Jaime should have turned and halted the execution, but he also seems to admonish him for breaking his oaths and turning later. Ned is a good man, but he's blind to the possibility of goodness in the grey areas, it seems.
"Is that what you tell yourself at night?"
You can tell that line really gets to Jaime.
Edmure did the same thing to him asked him the hard question 👌
@@danielbliss2643 Edmure had more of point considering the atrocities against the North at that point. Ned did not have a point. Jaime DID do the right thing then. I guess it still burns a man of honor the same way though.
Maybe in script, yes.
@@thegatorhator6822Ned is an honorable man. Breaking an Oath to him is like murdering your own children, an unforgivable act.
@@meurumtrain4747 Ned would not burn 1,000,000 people to death and kill his own family for an oath as much as it'd pain him to break it.
Jaime is practically screaming, "He was crazy! What the hell was I supposed to fucking do?"
+Rosebunse There were 2 right answers here:
First leave the service of the king when the rebelion started, perhaps joining them!
Second stay loyal until the very end, after all Aerys burned a lot of people before Tywin sacked the capital.
But he did the most convenient thing, leaving the losing side when everything is lost.
+MrFantocan Thank you!
The show doesn't take this past history detailed like the books, but what Ned Stark hated about Jaime and the lannisters in general, is the fck convenient shit, like the assault on the capital and the murder of aerys when the war was already decided.
Pedro Avellar
I guess another fact that makes Jaime so disgusting is that Aerys was going to burn down the entire city, wich means Jaime was saving his own skin, with thousands of others yes, but still.
That's right.
It's very odd for me that people started to like Jaime because he has "changed" somehow. He lost his hand and can't fight anymore, suddenly becomes Mr. Nice guy.
And one more fact, when Tyrion was married and Tywin tricks him to believe that his wife was a whore, Jaime knew she wasn't and didn't tell Tyrion anyway.
+Pedro Avellar It was the kill father and genocide part that drove him to turn. His service up until then could still be considered a matter of honor. Sir Baristan also didn't turn when the mad king went crazy. But would he have done any different in the kingslayer's shoes?
Jaime and Neds relationship is like that kid in high school who you want to like you and be "friends" with but he just flat out doesn't like you and you resent him for it.
sounds like a pretty sad childhood
What? Lol
"Jaime was never the bad guy". He's the guy that just weeks before tried to kill Eddard stark's kid by throwing him from a tower for self-preservation. Jaime wanted to be seen as honorable, but Eddard could read the quality of his character. Ned in Jaime's place did not shove a sword into Cersei or Joffrey; he wanted them placed under guard, even after Joffrey was crowned king. And then Ned hadn't sworn an oath to protect Joffrey's life as Jaime had to Aerys.
I say this all as someone who regards Jaime as one of my favorite characters.
Facts
@@hienable6933 And let's not forget what Jamie said to Tyrion in season 8
"I never cared about the people, guilty or innocent"
How Jaime has changed throughout the series. At first I really disliked him and now he is one of my favorite characters. Great acting by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau.
+mondola yep, that adventure with brienne was what changed him.
But in this scene he's sort of trying to reach out to Ned and explain what happened, though in his own smug asshole kind of way, but Ned won't listen, he just stands there with disgust all over his face, and many shared Ned's feelings. Probably the only way for Jaime to retain a sense of dignity is to be the tough smug guy who doesn't give a shit. Not that he isn't also an egotistical killer and so on, but still.
+xyhmo If only he had humbled just enough to explain to Eddard the same way he explained it to Brienne...
But then again, how would he *ever* come up with that idea by this time? He wasn't very popular, probably thought that acting tough was the best way out. Damn it, Jaime!
He's not changed! 1 kind act doesn't make him changed..
He didn't actually change too much from his original. The biggest difference is us seeing him more with his facade down compared to then when he put up a facade to show he didn't regret what he had done and to not hurt the family name.
Ned Stark basically saved Robert's ass at the Battle of the Bells, fought by his side at the Trident, went down to Kings Landing to put Tywin in check, to Storms End where he forced Mace Tyrell and Paxter Redwine to dip their banners without a fight and finally down to Dorne to defeat the real King's Guard including "The White Bull" Gerold Hightower, "Sword of the Morning" Arthur Dayne and Oswald Whent .Ned was one of the great warriors of Westeros.
+High King Cade XIX Unofficially he WAS an uncrowned King in the North, such was Stark authority there.
***** Only in a "Tywin mocks the idea of Joffrey being the most powerful man in Westeros" way -- the north remained part of the Seven Kingdoms through tradition and Ned/Robert's friendship more than any other ties.
+Veritas Invictus Don't forget he was also at the Trident and that he fought against the Greyjoys during their rebellion 5 years after Robert's rebellion.
+Veritas Invictus
He also went south to return Arthur Dayne's sword "Dawn" to his sister Ashara and bang her brains out before going back to Winterfell holding a bastard in his hands without running the risk of giving a single fuck about it to Catelyn, other than the mandatory fucks required to impregnate her. He was a fucking boss.
That's conjecture, we don't know if Ned fathered Jon, if anything his honor would have precluded it. He didn't 'go south' to return Dawn,he went to rescue Lyanna and found three of the finest Kingsguard in front of the Tower of Joy in Dorne. When he defeated Hightower,Whent and Arthur Dayne ,only him and Howland Reed surviving, he took Dawn to House Dayne as it was their ancestral sword.
If the Lannisters had possessed the same honor "Ice" would have been sent to Robb Stark instead of being split into two swords,one going to the little bastard King Joffrey and the other given to the Kingslayer, who in turn gave it to Brienne and named it "Oathkeeper".
"The king shits and the hand wipes" -
How ironic he lost his hand later on
but jamie isnt't the hand of king nor the king so not really
he did lose a hand tho
+Rahman Afzali he lost a hand but it doesn't make his statement ironic
How is that ironic? So every time Jaime uses the word 'hand' it's ironic because he lost a hand??
boganus699 somebody paid attention in freshman English lol
"You've served him well...when serving was safe."
*drops mic*
*Triple H's theme plays after he drops the mic*
not even true. Ned is being ridiculous
@Ved Singh because Ned is like "omg how dare you just sit there and let my dad die" and then implying Jaime betrayed the king out of opportunism. even Robert was like "seven hells Ned, someone had to kill aerys"
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 and neither of them even considered the fact that Jaime actually had a good reason for doing it
@@jakealter5504 I'm sure Ned also thought he should have died protecting the King he pledged to serve.
The way this scene aged. Jamie trying his best to explain what he did while his own pride gets in his way. Brilliant.
"Chosen your opponents wisely then"
Somewhere Floyd Mayweather is nodding in agreement
lol
Bruh Floyd fought every champion in his era wtf are you talking about?
@@AIONBERSERKER Floyd dodged Manny for years, and decided to fight Manny when he learned of his shoulder injury. Floyd is one sneaky niggah.
@@ronrivero1039 Nobody knew about this "injury" until after the fight. Manny even signed papers saying he was injury free. Real men don't make excuses.
@@AIONBERSERKER like TBE? The Best Excuse? We all know Mayweather got spies all over on Pacman. Just admit it, for 5 years people, celebs are telling Mayweather to fight Pacman, and he always says "I don't need to fight him to prove I am the best." LMAO. sneaky niggah cheatin
“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.
“We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.
“Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.
“When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”
“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
“I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”
“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.
“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”
“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.
“But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”
“Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.
Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
“And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”
The mad Kings Kingsguard was the most Epic assembled.
@@SOV_1 That Kingsguard deserved a better king
I can hear Scottish Ned in this scene. Lol.
@AdmiralOddSock Actually, I think that "I wish you good fortune in the wars to come." line was a good addition to the scene between Ned and Arthur.
@@rovenangelogallo5223 noe, nowytends
In the books his character arc is fantastic, in one chapter he has a dream/epiphany where he is alone in the darkness and naked with only a sword, everyone he loves leaves him and the only person who stands by his side is Brienne of Tarth. it's this dream that makes Jaime go back for her.
I just read that chapter
''She's warm''
how unfortunate the last season of this show depicts Jaime abandoning Brienne
Thoughts on Jamie season to season:
S1: Dude fucks his sister? And attempts to kill Bran? Fuck this guy
S2: Hehe look now he's all muddy
S3: Looks like he could use a hand
S4: This guy's alright actually
S5: GO JAIME GO!
Exactly! Lol
Lol very true
Krisb BeatS Hehe, use a hand
Krisb BeatS haha yes they turned him face very slowly..in wrestling jargon..it was a well made swerve..he was the guy whose guts ihated most in s1..but then he gradually made sense and become an underdog when he lived in mud.
Krisb BeatS so accurate!!
I bet that exchange really ruined his week, lol.
Ned:You just stood there and watched when my father and brother died
Ned: fuck you you killed your king
WTF ned what do you want him to do
I think Ned's biggest problems with the Lannisters was their timing. Tywin didn't join the rebellion and Jaime didn't kill the king until victory was guarenteed. If they truly thought the mad king deserved to die, they should have done something about it from the begining. By waiting until it was safe to kill him, Ned thinks that they are just opportunist who will betray anyone if it benefits them... which is totally true.
jaime was holding as hostage in king landing that why tywin was stay out of it
TylerN101 What you said is spot on.
TylerN101 If Tywin did join the rebels, how long do you think Jaime would survive?
Mr33500 Jaime could have died when Tywin sacked the city as well.
Jaime is such a misunderstood character with so much depth, complexity and innate good, his relationship with Tyrion is just pure warmth. My favour character of all time.
"Jaime was never the bad guy". He's the guy that just weeks before tried to kill Eddard stark's kid by throwing him from a tower for self-preservation. Jaime wanted to be seen as honorable, but Eddard could read the quality of his character. Ned in Jaime's place did not shove a sword into Cersei or Joffrey; he wanted them placed under guard, even after Joffrey was crowned king. And then Ned hadn't sworn an oath to protect Joffrey's life as Jaime had to Aerys.
I say this all as someone who regards Jaime as one of my favorite characters.
I feel like Jaime is being neutral like sometimes he sided with Cersei and sometimes he likes Tyrion
@@blee1997 He was still a weasel though
innate good, as in incest prone?
Jaime tried saving the people of King's Landing (people who didn't give two sh*ts about him), and broke his oath by killing the Mad King Aerys who was going to burn all of King's Landing with Wild Fyre. Cersei locked the gates and put the people in the open courts of King's Landing when Danerys was coming with her dragon. So Dany fulfilled what Aerys was intending. She burned most of King's Landing and its people!
It is interesting to see people dog Ned for being dismissive of Jaime. The fact is we benefit from hindsight which is something Ned Stark does not have the luxury of. Jorah Mormont and Jaime Lannister made it apparent that Ned Stark's greatest flaw is expecting people to follow the same code of honor that he himself follows and as such Stark is more likely to jump to conclusions than the others.
But it's a bullsh*t sentiment because Ned says, "Oh you just stood there and let it happen", as if he is culpable or had any say in Ned's father's death or anyone's death. Jaime was forced onto the oath at 15 years old, so he was very young and by oath had to allow the King to do as he pleased. So Jaime kept his oath and honored his duty and did as he was told. But then gives him no respect for finally stopping the madness by killing the monster that needed to be killed to stop the unjust murder of hundreds or thousands of people.
@@REB4444 Ned's not treating him as if he was culpable. He's just indicating why Jamie's supposed sympathy for his dead father and brother doesn't mean much.
"You served him well, when serving him was safe." That was a greater burn than what Ned Starks dad received.
Jaime: NOTICE ME SENPAI
more along the lines of:
RESPECT ME SENPAI
Ned: “you’re weeaboo trash!”
Well look at it from Ned's point of view. He arrived to King's Landing only to see it sacked and in ruins by the Lannisters. He goes to the Red Keep to find Jaime slitting his own King's throat coincidentally at the same time as when Tywin Lannister sacked the city. Jaime had many chances to kill the King before but he only did it when he knew he was going to be safe. If that's all I knew, obviously I would've have been pissed.
You know what really amazes me? How Jaimie Lannister is desperate for Ned Stark validation. He doesn't normally care about other people. I'd say deep down, he admires Stark.
he is crazy for honor. Why else would he had stayed in the kingsguard
@@xgalarion8659 I think you hit the nail. Jamie always believe in the story of honor and knighthood...etc. The problem is that he later found out that the Kingsguard was not nearly as glorified as he thought. He was delusional of the Kingsguard. Yet, I think he still look for the honor and glory, and thus seek approval from known glorified and honorable men, like Ned Stark.
@@Chemicalkinetics Jaime only cared about two things. Cersei, and being an honorable knight. Never cared for power, money on even popularity. Yet, his concept of "honor" is different than Ned's concept of honor. All the "knightly" characters of Game of Thrones have a slightly different understanding of what honor means. Think about Ned, Loras, Jaime, Bryenne. They all are alike each other, but different at the same time. They share their disdain for power and richness.
"That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but somewhere along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead."
He idolized "honourable" men and skilled fighters- Ser Barristan Selmy, the Blackfish, Ser Duncan- and Ser Arthur Dayne above all.
And then Lord Eddard Stark, who's not only a honourable man to begin with but also only a couple years older than he is, comes along and somehow *beats* his number one idol, Ser Arthur Dayne.
Of *course* he admires Ned.
It says something about how well written (and acted) this show is that, looking back, I feel so sorry for Jaime here. When I first saw this my only reaction was "YES Ned, teach that arrogant prick a lesson".
4 sleeps to season 6...
Plenty of shit acting game of thrones
+EnglishableOscar The thing about this scene was....maybe Jaime did act in good faith when he shoved the sword in Targaryeons back....but it was BS attempt for sympathy, because Jaime and Ned were both standing there knowing, Jaime chucked his son off the Tower.
+Scott Grimes HAHAHA wow I did not realise that... I guess you can see that even through Jamie's rapidly developing character, his major flaw will always be his love/lust for Cersei
+Scott Grimes So his character will be complete once he kills Cersei...
+EnglishableOscar I never liked Ned. He always seemed the judgemental hater type. He says Jamie chooses his opponents wisely but Ned won't step to Jamie cause he'll get fucked up.
" You Served Him Well , When Serving Was Safe " True words by Ned Stark
+Kingslayer Ned doesn't know about the Wildfyre plot due to Jamie's silence. Thus, looking at Jamie from Ned's perspective makes the Kingslayer's actions seem more opportunistic, especially when timed with Tywin's betrayal and brutal sack of King's Landing.
Ridiculous comment and I'm ashamed of Ned. A hands job is never safe and especially when serving a mad King
@@iditarod4081 certainly safer than to kill him otherwise somebody would have done it already.
Learning their history, this scene is very awkward to watch.
+Christian Lopez Of course, in the first episode.
Ned cursed him _kingslayer_ when he and Robert got into the room and watched the Mad King lying dead, wasn't it?
He also met him right after he killed Aerys. Ned walked in the throne room and saw Jaime sitting on the Iron Throne.
RuthlessLieutenant im sorry so Ned dissed Jamie for killing the king who... Ned came to kill too? is it bcos he took the pleasure off him? :D no but srsly. why the dislike?
Lyrion Tannister Ned didn't kill him, he was losing the fight when Howland Reed stabbed Dayne in the back.
In another life, these two coulda been bros.
no, they wouldnt
He's not like Robert. Robert is a troll, he is an actual douchebag.
Ned's too damn honourable that even in another life he would be an honourable fool.
In another life, this awful show wouldn't have existed to rip our hearts open time and time again
Jaime's behavior in this scene reminds me of the kid in school who is desperately trying to be friends with the cool kid.
Ned was right on this one ''You served him well, when serving was safe''... I don't think he hate Jamie in particular, he hate all the men who stood and did nothing to save his family...
See that's where I get a little fuzzy on Ned, he looks down at Jaime for killing the King, yet in the same breath looks down on him for not disobeying the King when his Family were burnt. If he were truly a man of honor then Ned would of understood why Jaime and the others couldn't do a single thing to help his family. It's one of the reasons I love the show (Not read the books as of yet) because there are so many variables you can love/hate so many different characters without any of it being black and white.
***** Well, everyone hates joffrey. :)
By the way, i disagree. He could have done something. He could have killed the mad king and end his tyranny. Or at least try to say something. He could also be able to break his oath, flee and join the rebels. But he did nothing. As Aeris abused his wife and one of the Kingsguard wanted finaly do something, he even stopd him by saying: "You have sworn to protect him. Not to judge him." There was no evidence, none at all, that he opposed against the king, until the war was allready decided.
I do not know if he did it to protect himself or his family, but that was not honorable.
So 2 Stark lords is more important than Millions of people? Ok sure mate.
Yeah I personally think that Ned is less angry about the kingslaying, and more that Jaimie did it to save his own skin.
So did sir Bernstein but ned respected him
JAMIE JUST GETS ROASTED BY EVERYONE. ESPECIALLY EPIC CHARACTERS LIKE NED AND BLACKFISH.
he's living and they dead .. who is your daddy
Youssef lannister lol
xD turn down for what
Youssef lannister he is not dead in the books ;)
all of them betrayed by people they trusted
I'd wish i knew how to appear as confident as Jaime does here.
how?
+Slackerphilosopher Not sure what the exact answer is, but there are ways to make yourself look more confident. Having good posture is a good place to start, it makes you walk with what looks like confidence. Next be comfortable with yourself or at least act like you are comfortable and in control of yourself. Speak clearly and with purpose. All those things increase your confidence and how confident you appear tenfold.
+【Nature CaLLs】 You have to have a life goal that you would do virtually anything for. Outside of the context of committing heinous crimes, of course.
+Slackerphilosopher Get some acting lessons.
Be a world class swordsman and be born into the perhaps most powerful family in the realm, and have a lot of enemies who hate your guts and engage in psychological warfare (like this scene) with them on a regular basis.
None of you seem to understand this scene.
Jaime Lannister is jealous of Ned Stark, the way every lord and every peasant have nothing but good things to say about him, is the way Jaime wants to be treated.
Ned Stark is the hero of the rebellion, the man who lost half his family and changed an empire. It's even questioned why Ned didn't declare the throne for himself.
Since Jaime was a boy all he wanted to be was a hero Knight, he idolised the Blackfish, Selmy and Dayne. He wanted to be a Kingsguard.
He became a member of the Kingsguard only as political weapon against Tywin, the mad king robbed him of his heir.
He thought in no battles he remained in KingsLanding as a hostage.
He killed The Mad King to save KingsLanding but he also failed Rhaegar, Rhaegar left him to protect his wife and children and they were slaughtered while Jaime sat on the Throne. Ned judged him as what he was, Tywins son. Tywin did not declare a side during the war but when it was lost came to aid the Capital the sacked it. He gave the order to kill the Elia and her children. So when Ned sees the destruction of KingsLanding by LANNISTER soldiers and sees the King killed by Jaime.... You find a Coward who switched sides at the very end. Jaime thinks that because he's faithful to Cersei and that Ned had a "bastard" he's more honorable...... Oh how he's mistaken.
Interesting 👍good comment. Haven't read the books. Love the different takes and perspectives from different people.
I wouldn't say he's jealous of ned at all, he just wants him to understand that he honestly didn't do anything wrong, and it's explained in the bath scene with brienne
@@PapaSmurff660 Yea Jaime is not jealous of Ned but just wants him to understand where he is coming from. It's probably quite confusing on Jaimie's part why Ned hates him for literally killing his father and brother's killer.
@@maxb8749(From Ned's POV) Jaime acted only when it was convenient to him. He was fine with the king butchering people as long as he was on the winning side, then decided to kill him when he had already lost the war.
@@evan64915 He wasn't fine with it. He was literally a hostage and had no power to stop it.
"Look man, Aerys wanted to fry the whole city...I had to do it." JUST SAY IT JAIME!
Jaime tried saving the people of King's Landing (people who didn't give two sh*ts about him), and broke his oath by killing the Mad King Aerys who was going to burn all of King's Landing with Wild Fyre. Cersei locked the gates and put the people in the open courts of King's Landing when Danerys was coming with her dragon. So Dany fulfilled what Aerys was intending. She burned most of King's Landing and its people! Cersei basically did the exact opposite of Jaime!
For those who don't know why Jaime is quite afraid of Ned is because Ned reputedly defeated Arthur Dayne and two other Kingsguard members, and led an army victoriously in Robert's Rebellion;
Ned sees Jaime as a lowly backstabber.
He later tells Brienne how much it grieves him that he doesn't have Ned's approval.
Is it his approval he wanted or hated Ned's self-righteousness.
@@Argos-xb8ek Or Ned just read him like a book, he is after all the guy who said in season 8 that he didn't care about the people and went back to Cercei
@@Argos-xb8ek it's a pretty big detail that Jaime admires him...in both media. If you think Ned is self-righteous you either miss the point or you don't know what 'self-righteous' truly means. Ned isn't high on himself. He is how he is because of how his family raised him, and his values and rules are shared by others in his house and even others in the North. It's not JUST Ned, and he isn't posturing...he truly believes the world runs according to his sensibilities....that's why people call him naive. The High Sparrow might be self-righteous...using his extreme views of what he believes the gods want as weapons to gain power. Ned admires others like Ser Barristan for also doing what's right or honorable. Ser Barristan also suffers the shortcomings this brings. It's just righteousness if you can call it anything....it's not self indulgent or self interested, which is what self-righteous means when coupled with a flimsy rule code
@@no1guy825 So he wasn't acting morally superior to Jamie.
@@pr-tj5bySeason 8 isnt canon
I really felt bad for Jaime in this scene. You can tell that he respects Ned, and was looking for his understanding, then Ned being the stubborn self-righteous fool he is, just throws it back in his face. The Mad King deserved a far worse death than the one Jaime gave him.
***** I think the line from the bath house was the most telling: "You think the honourable Ned Stark wanted to hear my side? He judged me guilty the moment he set eyes on me." This is the persona Jaime and character Jaime had been playing up to for nearly 20 years. Being looked down upon and spoken like shit to for killing a King that deserved death many times over.
That's who he became, the cocky, smug cunt. Granted he was always arrogant, but that's the price of being too good too young. You can see the look on his face when he says the line "it felt like justice" and how his face changes when Ned throws it back at him. He looked genuinely wounded. I think he thought that after enough time had passed, that Ned would be maybe the one person who would maybe not thank but at least accept that killing the Mad King was the right thing to do.
+Rekka Riley The Mad King was going to raze Kings Landing,that was the apparent reason.Not to mention Aerys ordered Jamie to bring him his Father's(Tywin) head.
+Luke47895 >Respects Ned
>First thing he greets him with is that the hand wipes the kings shit
Yeah okay.
AzzRaze Clearly you didn't read a fucking thing I've already said.
+Luke47895 I did like Ned, but I think like he followed the rules far too hard. DOES HE NOT REALIZE WHAT THE MAD KING WAS DOING? Jaime may not be a saint, but he had his reasons. Ned and his honor. Ridiculous. You really sometimes have to bend and break the rules to prevent shit from going down.
Jaime's little face at 2:00-2:03!!! ...after hearing his confession to Brienne I feel bad for him. I loved Ned but he stab Jaime in the heart here.
"You served him well, when serving was safe."
Ol' Eddard telling it like it is.
Jaime doesn't betray Mad King. Ned: "You just stood there and watched." Jaime kills Mad King. Ned: "You stabbed him in the back." Jaime: "There's no pleasing you, is there?"
Performing his duty to the end is something Ned would appreciate, like Gerold, Oswell and Arthur did, they were there as well and he never talked them down.
I wondered that at first too, but I think Ned's point at the end there was that Jaime waited to exact his so-called "justice" only when it was safe for him to do so; i.e., when there was no one else around to punish him for it. I don't think Ned saw it as justice since there was no bravery behind it, nothing risked. Granted he didn't know the additional context concerning the Mad King calling for Tywin's head or the burning of the entire city; perhaps if he did, he'd view Jaime differently.
@@TheMidnightPhilyou're absolutely right in your description of Ned.
I think that his stubborn conception of honour made refuse to hear Jaime's side.
If he did, I wonder if he would still chide jaime as harshly as he did
@@TheMidnightPhil Or maybe he just saw Jamie as the type of guy who would push a young boy off a tower, say that he doesn't care about the people (season 8) and run back to his evil queen, who knows.
@@TheMidnightPhil Let's not forget what Jamie said to Tyrion in season 8
"I never cared about the people, guilty or innocent"
Deep down Jaime always had respect for honourable men such as Selmy dayne and Ned. No doubt it was hard for him to be judged by honourable men and called kingslayer. Very beautifully written and complexed character. Loved him.
Funny enough, these two have more in common than either of them ever knew.
Ned allowed his reputation to be tarnished by claiming Jon Snow as his bastard and that he broke his marriage vows when the truth was he was protecting his sister's son Aegon from the certain death he would face if the king ever knew there was a living Targaryen in Westeros.
Jaime allowed his reputation to be tarnished by letting people believe that he broke his vow and killed his king just to save his own life when in reality, the king was the first of the two to break his vow by commanding Jaime to kill his own father.
Both are men of great honor, who allowed their reputation to be destroyed by others' misunderstanding of events when the truth is, the things that ruined each of their reputations are quite possibly the most honorable things either of them ever did
Eddard Stark: The man who can in two simultaneous sentences first chide a man for not killing his king to save two men then chide him again for killing his king to save the kingdom.
This actually illustrates something I love about this show. I love Ned, he's my favorite character and he's a truly good man, but he's not perfect at all. This show just happens to be a step more realistic than most; it's heroes if there are any are flawed humans who are susceptible to irrationality and selfishness, while it's villains are shown to be ruthless but still have human emotions and fear and desire and even sometimes a sense of justice. Every character is really just a human doing human things, and it's exceedingly rare to find a show that has that.
Good point but actually Ned is right that Jaime served Aerys well when it was easy and killed him when they have been defeated. Jaime could have killed Aerys much earlier and save the kingdom from many injustices if he trully cared about justice, but he didn't. When he did Aerys would have been dead either way because his army was defeated when Robert killed Rhaegar at the Trident.
billyyo13
Ned didn't have a problem with the fact that Jaime failed to kill the mad king sooner, no he had a problem with the fact that he killed him at all.
And besides, Jaime waited until the pyromancer and the king were about to burn the city before finally turning, when it was obvious the rebels would win as soon as the gates were opened for Tywin Lannister, so not only is Ned wrong in his judgement from not knowing all the facts, he's wrong even from the facts he does know.
I don't know if Jaime is right that Ned would still have judged him the same if he knew the whole story, but he knew enough to know that Jaime did not act in his own interest and he still labeled him kingslayer.
It's just that there's a taboo in the society of Game of Thrones that's hard to understand from someone not from it. To you or me there's nothing sacred or special about the oaths we take, we don't believe in being bound to service, but in the very first episode we saw how seriously they take that shit when a man was executed because he tried to save his own life. Royalty being factually more important than commoners is a literal fact to most everyone in Westeros.A reversal of the idea would be how seriously we take something like pedophilia, when in this world it's probably not unheard of to wed a creepy old man to a 14 year old girl. They wouldn't understand how messed up that is to us because they have different cultural values.
billyyo13 I'm assuming that you either haven't seen or have chosen to ignore the bath scene. Jaime killed the Mad King for a reason.
Bainbow
No but that's Jaime's account. Eddard said that when he entered the throne room he found Jaime sitting on the Iron throne and that "on seeing Eddard, Jaime got off the Iron Throne, joking that he was just keeping it warm for Robert". To me what mattered mostly was that Aerys demanded his father's head. Since he already killed the pyromancer and since Eddard with his army was literally seconds away it was unnecessary to kill Aerys. Plus I don't really trust a guy who tried to kill a boy and conspired against two Hands to hide his affair with his sister.
billyyo13
I'm pretty sure he didn't say that because it hadn't even been decided that Robert would be king yet. In fact I don't remember anything even close to that. What episode is that from?
Just stood there when two men were dying?
Coward.
Killed the psychopathic monarch before he could slaughter thousands?
Oathbreaker.
Jaime Lannister gets the shittiest PR. The only one who gets it as bad is Tyrion, in that regard.
Thats the general problem with those loosely terms like "justice", "honour","good" or "evil" .It just depends solely on the individual interpretation.
The only ones who knew about the wildfire plan was the mad king, the pyromancer and Jaime, and well later Brienne. You can't judge people for calling him Kingslayer when they don't know what would have happened if he didn't kill the mad king.
Still everything Ned said is valid, you have to look at the circumstances. When something "heroic" is accompanied with a possibility of something "selfish" (such as saving your own skin) the judgement will always remain in the grey area.
Philip J. Fry one cadjective can describe your entire post - subjective
Yeah so glad he saved that city for Tywin to sack! Killing and murdering thousands.
Danial mon
As opposed to everyone burning to death in wild fire.
*wtf jamie, you just stood there and watched*
*wtf jamie, you just killed the Mad King*
Exactly, no consistency
Ned's point was that Jaime is hypocritical by claiming nobility for killing the mad king when the war was already won, when it would have actually been noble to stand up to him when no one else would.
To Ned's eyes, Jaime served the Mad King loyally when he had power and betrayed him when it was profitable. The same man who comes to Ned decades later and claims that his act of betrayal was actually a bold decision in the name of justice; it looks like a coward who has broken one of the highest vows you can take and then desperately tried to rationalize his decision after the fact. With the information Ned has, it's completely natural that his reaction to Jaime is disgust.
Jaime is trying his hardest to be respected by Ned who sees right through him.
+oldenvye6432
Because Jamie killed his king, and betrayed his vows.
That is punishable by death. Eddard called it murder and wanted him executed, but Robert Baratheon pardoned Ser Jamie Lannister the Kingslayer.
That's the thing, Ned doesn't see right through him. Ned has never learned about the reason why Jaime killed the king, that he saved thousands of people by the deed.
"By what right does the Wolf judge the Lion!?"
TheSchemer1 Nailed the source of Jaime's angst (and possibly PTSD) that led to the personality that we see both here and more broadly in Season 1.
+TheSchemer1
BY EVERY RIGHT!
Jamie betrayed his king and vows as a kingsguard.
that is punishable by death. Eddard Stark called it murder, but Ser Jamie Lannister the Kingslayer was pardoned by Robert Baratheon.
How dare he get rid of a complete monster king worse than Joffrey and save loads of lives from wildfire, letting all of King's Landing die would be the far more moral option of course - Ned Stark and Ser Barristan are moral cowards for not seeing Jaime's logic.
TheSchemer1
Jamie has not told people that he saved 500.000 men and how.
So he got every right to judge him.
That shows his humility as a hero - and Ned Stark's judgmental stupidity!
The dialogue for this show used to be so strong. Every line was poignant and confrontative. Each conversation was its own fight scene.
Holy hell this scene is better than whole season 7 and 8 combined
I like how righteous and just Ned Stark who judged Jamie guilty the moment he saw him said "and you just stood there and watched"
This is why Jamie couldn't beat him in the sword fight, Ned has psychologically damaged Jamie Lannister. Ever since Ned ran him off the Iron Throne after Jamie killed the Mad King, Ned just keeps getting the better of him in every exchange, verbal or otherwise. Ned even killed his hero Arthur Dayne, and Jamie can't wrap his mind around how he did it (of course Howland Reed knows how he did it) LOL. All Jamie ever wanted was for Ned Stark to respect him, as much as he respects Ned, but Ned just keeps spiting it back in his face like a boss. More than a year after Ned's death, Jamie was still crying in bathtubs about how Ned would shit on his honor. Babbling on about how lions don't answer to wolves, LOL. I've grown to like Jamie as the series has gone on, but Ned was just too alpha for Jamie, and Ned's lack of appoval was literally killing Jamie inside.
Pretty good comment. 👍
It's nice to see a series which shows that even those characters, which some would call "the good guys", have human weaknesses, such as Ned's black&white view of honour, compaired to Jamie's much more ambigious, but more flexible sense of morality. These character are human, all too human.
0:06 Would have been a familiar sight for Ned seeing Jamie there. After Jamie killed the mad king Ned was one of the first people on the sight, he found Jamie sitting on the iron throne with his sword across his knees and the mad king dead at his feet. So you can almost imagine what it would look like.
At first I viewed Jaime as a first class douche. Watching this 4 seasons later made me realize Ned Stark was the one who truly was the douche to Jaime. Ned is way too honorable but little does did he know Jaime saved half a million lives by slaying the king.
The point Ned was making by saying you served him well when serving was safe is, is that he could have cut down the mad King when his father was about to be burned. Jamie only killed the mad King when his father had already taken kings landing and he knew he would be safe.
+jack johnson Exactly!
+Rekka Riley But this doesn't invalidate Ned's perspective because Ned isn't given any reason to doubt it. Jamie never told anyone the truth about why he killed the Mad King. He even had a chance to tell both his father and Ned Stark, but refused either because he didn't think they'd believe him or out of pride. "By what right does that wolf judge the lion?"
Couple Jamie's apparent self-interested betrayal with that of Tywin dishonorably backstabbing his king by killing, raping and pillaging King's Landing and ordering the Mountain and Lorch to murder and rape Rhaegar's family and Ned has all the more reason to distrust Jamie's motivations.
Even if Jamie told Ned the truth, I doubt that would change anything considering that Ned later learns that Jamie crippled Bran when the poor boy caught Jamie doing the nasty with Cersei and Jamie tried to kill him.
+Rekka Riley Excellent analysis!
tajniak4 Jaime is kingsguard who aren't supposed to kill the king under virtually any circumstance.
1:57 That's the moment you realize Ned Stark was secretly Jaime's greatest hero. You can see the disappointment in Jaime's face.
When I first saw the show I hated Jamie and just saw him as a villain who was an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. Now after I have read the books, he has become my favorite character in the series. Even in this scene, you can tell that Jamie (who is dismissed by most other characters in the series to be a man without honor), subconsciously has a lot of respect for Ned (who is considered by most to be one of the most honor bound characters) and desperately wants Ned to respect him back, as if a nod of approval from the honorable Ned Stark would wash away some of the black mark left on his reputation after murdering the Mad King. When Ned just flat out refuses to believe that Jamie may have in fact acted because of his own sense of honor and justice, you can tell that it kind of cuts him deep. Even though I like Ned, his stubbornness pisses me off, and I think that it is mostly him and people like him who fucked Jamie up and made him the man he ultimately became. Jaime made a bold decision and did what arguably was the right thing when he was just a kid (17 or something).
By breaking his oath and stabbing the mad king, he saved the lives of many innocent people in the city, but became despised for it ever since by everyone whom he could have possibly looked up to because they were so committed to their primitive view of honor.
As a young squire, he idolized men of great renown and honor like Ser Arthur Dayne and Barristan Semly, and aspired to one day be known as a great and honorable knight himself. These men whom he respected and aspired to be, however, turned their backs on him and immediately wrote him off as traitor scum. This, I think, brutally crushed his dreams of ever becoming the knight he dreamed to one day be, causing him to invert his disapointmen and only display a cocky facade of a man who is not bothered by their scorn. This scene and several others, subtly show a sneak peak of the real Jamie, who, deep inside, is still hurting to be accepted into the ranks of "honorable" men. He is such a conflicted black/white character that I can't help but sympathize and love him.
Very well said ... Jaime's such an interesting and intriguing character, definitely became my favorite in both the books and the show. :)
***** Jaime said somewhere something like this to Cersei: "I'm not ashamed of loving you, but I'm ashamed of what I do to hide it." So he does respect Ned, he pushed Bran just to protect their secret - and "respect" doesn't mean he's going to just let Bran tell everyone and have himself killed. (Bran did plan on telling, it's in the books in his thoughts).
He didn't seem to mind people being stabbed in the back when Howland Reed stabbed Arthur Dayne in the back lol
there's a difference between an open fight and killing an unarmed, unprotected person you swore to defend
papay100 There's a difference between an unarmed person and a mad king equipped with enough wild fire to burn an entire city in his madness.
You guys don't seem to understand the difference.
Ned fought Dayne and Reeds stabbed the back of Arthur's neck, when he had the chance.
That's a fatal blow, sure death.
Ned finished him off so he wouldn't have to suffer.
Jaime just straight up wanted to killed Aerys. It doesn't matter if it was in the back or elsewhere, he made a move in order to kill the mad king, no need to get in front of him.
@Gman The "unarmed person" here is, in the other person's words: the mad king. Not Arthur Dayne.
@@papay100 And if that person orders you to behead your own father and then burn 2 million people alive for literally no reason besides the fact that he's fkin nuts and thinks it will reincarnate him as a dragon? Does that make any difference?
This scene was the replica of When Ned walks into the throne room after Mad King's death, But Ned finds Jaime sitting on the Iron throne instead of steps.
Coming from season 8 just to remember the good writing. Dont mind me
Kristiyan Georgiev same
Gods those were the days.
Jaime’s confession w Brienne really puts the whole mad king betrayal into perspective...like gosh Ned, youre telling me u wouldnt stab the mad king in the back if he wanted u to burn down Kings landing?
This right here is always why I've respected Sean Bean as an Actrnover the years. Look closely at his eyes and facial expression when addressing Jaime.. He has no respect whatsoever for Jaime and he conveyed it beautifully with his facial expression like no one else.
I've got a lot of love for Ned - but he hates Jamie for killing the Mad King and breaking his vow, but then hates him for not stepping in with his brother and father. Pick a team!!!
Lord Bolton exactly
Ned would have gotten over the fact that Jaime had killed Aerys to save people, and he would have forgiven Jaime in a short time if Jaime had never broken his vows, even if that meant dooming Ned's family. As it is, from Ned's point of view, Jaime does not care for honor OR for human life, making his reasons for letting Ned's family die and for killing Aerys utterly contemptible.
Jamie killed the mad king for justice, partly, in the book, Jamie was mad and angry when the mad king burned people alive with wild fire. and his commander told him: we are here to protect the king not to judge him...that proves somehow that Jamie has some decency and honor...well Ned stark was defending an other theory of honor and oath keeping but what would he do if he was ordered by an insane king to kill his own father?!!!
Hisham Dinari I agree. The scene with Brienne in the bathtub (S3EP5 Kissed By Fire) when Jaime opens up on why he killed the king, haunts me and moved me to tears even. "Tell me if your own precious Renly, commanded you to kill your father and stand by while thousands of men, women and children burned alive, would you have done it? Would you have kept your oath then?"
i liked when he said by what right can a wolf judge a lion?!!!
Hisham Dinari yes! The scene began to built up until that moment. And the song (Kingslayer) went perfectly with Jaime's confession. And then when he faints in Brienne's arms as she yells for the guards, he wanted to be referred to as Jaime. Even before I heard the back story, I had a feeling that Jaime's reasons in killing the mad king were justifiable. To me, Jaime was more of an arrogant asshole who needed a reality check. He got one and he's changed for the better for the most part.
Hisham Dinari Ned would of killed the king before it ever came to that no one would of seen anyone burn or he would of killed his father
Hisham Dinari Ned would of killed the king before it ever came to that no one would of seen anyone burn or he would of killed his father
BOUT TIAM WE HAD SOM STEHN NOOTHAN LEADAHSHIP
What i love about this is Ned's response to Jaime’s monologue. You would expect anybody to agree with Jaime’s rationalisation, but Ned see’s through it. He know’s that Jaime’s word’s are empty. He even plays into a little bit, by suggesting that he would respect Jaime if he didn’t just stand there and watched, but then is critical of the notion that killing the Mad King was justified from Jaime’s position as a Kingsguard. He knows how much Jaime is seeking his approval and masterfully exposes this. Ned was better at the game than people realise.
He wants Ned to respect him, but he most definitley would have killed him if the soldier hadnt intervened.
Quite a sad scene now we know more about more about what actually happened. Jamie's arrogance was a front, he really just wanted to tell Ned what really happened.
"Jaime was never the bad guy". He's the guy that just weeks before tried to kill Eddard stark's kid by throwing him from a tower for self-preservation. Jaime wanted to be seen as honorable, but Eddard could read the quality of his character. Ned in Jaime's place did not shove a sword into Cersei or Joffrey; he wanted them placed under guard, even after Joffrey was crowned king. And then Ned hadn't sworn an oath to protect Joffrey's life as Jaime had to Aerys.
I say this all as someone who regards Jaime as one of my favorite characters.
People seem to froget Ned DIDN'T KNOW about the wildfire plot.
"You served him well, when serving was safe." That line is some serious wildfrire burn.
Jaime's behavior makes perfect sense. Seeing all the vows conflicting, and seeing how the world judges you no matter what you do, he just becomes jaded and cynical.
Jamie is all like "Notice me Ned-senpai"
People misunderstood this scene. Eddard doesn't despise him because he stabbed him in the back, he despised him because Jaime killed him instead of just restraining him. Only when the balance of power shifted did he move. Jaime played the opportunist card and not the righteous one.
I think that last line really is the key; it's not just the perceived dishonor that came with betraying his charge, but that the timing seemed so opportunistic. To Ned, Jaime only killed the Mad King when it seemed like a forgone conclusion. He didn't know about the Mad King calling for Tywin's head and the burning of the city, of course, which may have changed things. But I guess we'll never know.
Let's not forget what Jamie said to Tyrion in season 8
"I never cared about the people, guilty or innocent"
Maaaaaannnnnnn, I've only got one more episode to go until I've watched all they've made so far. This was so long ago for me! Now that I know the whole story, it changes everything! If only Ned knew the truth about Jaime's betrayal... damn...
Yeah it's crazy how much things change in this show.
+Joseph Easley in the books it's even more damning
+Joseph Easley Maaaaaan
+Joseph Easley That's the problem, Jaime never even tried to explain to Ned what happened and why anyone in his position would have done the same thing. I'm pretty sure Ned Stark would have killed the mad King to if he knew what he was going to do.
+Joseph Easley Tell me what was the reason for Jaimes betrayal?
love how Jaime starts with "thank the gods you're here" when he doesn't even believe in the gods. When he later says to Catelyn "if the gods are real why is the world so full of injustice?" you realise the level of his sarcasm in this scene :D I love Jaime
The reason Ned chastizes him here is because he knows Jamie and believes the Kingslayer only slew the king when his own father's life was in danger and not Eddard's father/brother.
The classic counter productive hypocrisy of GoT characters: “I hate the Mad King because he wanted me dead and murdered my brother and father,” “I also hate the Kingslayer for deservedly killing the Mad King.” Lol.
Jamie was a weasel, Let's not forget what Jamie said to Tyrion in season 8
"I never cared about the people, guilty or innocent"
I love how how good the dialogue was. Both of them just sizing each other up, attacking each other’s insecurities without raising their voices.
Tough to watch this incredible writing after season 7...
Tim Wyckoff It's really depressing honestly.
Lol.
"You served him well, when serving was safe." I'd love to see the reaction of Ned Stark watching the man he once called a coward charge a dragon
“People have been swinging at me for years but they always seem to miss.”
God Jaime is so well written, it’s not a ‘deep’ line but the way he says it.
I like how Ned doesn't necessarily dislike Jaimie for killing Aerys. He dislikes him because he only did it once it was clear he had to go turncoat. It wasn't breaking his oath that irks Ned, it's the fact it was only broken once It was convenient.
Its so crazy how perspectives change. I used to hate Jamie and thought Ned was right. Now after 5 seasons I see Ned was wrong and Jamie was right
+ApertureClockwork Likewise, The saying goes there is two side to the story.
+ApertureClockwork And how exactly was Ned "wrong". Him being executed does not make him wrong.
Shak He was wrong in how he treated Jamie after he killed the Mad king. Should have treated him as a savior of the city not a traitor. Wrong to support taking Tyrion hostage. Wrong not to trust Renly. Wrong about so so many things.
+ApertureClockwork Ned was still right. Jamie saved his own skin mainly.
+ApertureClockwork Wrong on Jamie yes but not about supporting taking Tyrion. His wife made the choice and it would be wrong for him to oppose it as it would show dissent in his own family and that signals weakness.
However Jamie was wrong on far more severe issues. Such as screwing his own sister and creating the monster Joffrey. Wrong in supporting the witch Cersei. Wrong by joining the kingsguard and waste his Lannister legacy. Wrong in being arrogant, leading to his hand being cut. Not to mention that he was wrong about by not realising that Tyrion would kill Tywin and thus throw the Lannister legacy into chaos and certain doom.
Jamie has done very few things right. Killing the mad king was one and supporting his brother Tyrion the other. Not much else.
Love the entrance cinematography with Jaime sitting on the stairs wiping his “wounds” if you will. So legendary.
"You served him well when serving is safe"
Very well said lord stark hahaha
Jamie is victim of his own doing.
Wrong, jaime at that age was more than capable of slaying the king at any time.
LegendInThaMakin
Jaime is two years younger than Ned and who has Jaime killed other than some nameless people Ned battled in War's and slayed Kings Guard....
wildoxidizer jamie was the best swordsman in westoros at this time and the lord commander of the kings guard. Arthur dayne would have ended neds life if it wasnt for howland reed. Jamie has stated in book 3 that he was capable of beating arthur dayne himself with superior speed and skill, admitting that arthur dayne was indeed stronger than him. Jaime grew up around swordsman legends and was trained by each one of them including arthur dayne, barristan selmy and other greats that would laugh at the swordsmen of todays time.
Briene of tarth also admitted in book 4 that when healthy and with both hands there was no man in the seven kingdoms that could beat jaime.
LegendInThaMakin Barristan Selmy is lord commander of the Kings-guard I'll have to reread the books again because I believe that was a miss quote on your part...
“That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead.”
- Jaime's thoughts on himself
“Defeated in the Whispering Wood by the Young Wolf Robb Stark during the War of the Five Kings. Held captive at Riverrun and ransomed for a promise unfulfilled. Captured again by the Brave Companions, and maimed at the word of Vargo Hoat their captain, losing his sword hand to the blade of Zollo the Fat. Returned safely to King's Landing by Brienne, the Maid of Tarth”
- Jaime writing of himself in the White Book
wildoxidizer Nope, Barristan Selmy was dismissed and relieved of his duty right after Robert Baratheon was killed remember? Jaime Lannister then became lord commander right after and remained lord commander through his capture all the way till he got back.
Yes he wanted to be like the sword of morning when he was younger but he grew up, studying his style and in the beginning of book 3 (too lazy to find the quote), it was during his fight with brienne where he stated that his superior skill and speed was the reason he bested his opponents, he then implied he could have done the same to rhaegar and arthur there too.
Yes im well aware of what Jaime wrote of himself in the white book (aka book of brothers). I am simply stating that in this scene right here in this youtube video where Jaime lannister had both hands and was perfectly healthy, he was the best swordsman in the 7 kingdoms. He became nothing shortly after he lost his hand, yes i know that.
During the battle of black water tyrion recapped on what Jaime had told him about the beauty of battle. He says that Jaime says when he is in that zone, simple things like the weight of his armor is forgotten, everything seems to move in slow motion, he sees every swordsmans weaknesses, this was how extremely fast Jaime was, he simply slayed left and right.
During the battle were he got captured by Rob Stark, he saw the battle was going south and all was lost, so he rode straight for rob, slaying left and right and effortlessly killing all that got in his way until he was finally subdued and captured. If no one stood in his way, Rob would have died right there and then.
After Tyrion sends back the envoy to rescue Jaime from imprisonment, once again, he attained a sword and slayed and slayed and slayed until he was finally subdued and all his men were dead. Jaime was simply unstoppable with a sword in hand and no man dared challenged him to 1v1 combat, thats where he excelled the most.
Like i said, Eddard Stark would be no match for Jaime Lannister if it came down to it. As soon as Arthur Dayne & Rhaegar died and Barristan Selmy fled to the eastern cities, Jaime no longer had any rivals.
500 hundred men, more like 500 hundred cowards.
+Jake Tryon And you'd be dead in that show :)
nevrest I'd rather die or burn than serve a mad and evil king. I would have cut the bonds of the starks and gelp them escape than do evil deeds in the name of my king
+Jake Tryon For all they knew, the Starks who got burnt to death were no more than Northern conspirators trying to overthrow the king or to smear the reputation of the royal family.
Would you have jumped with Tyrion out of the Moon Door in the Eyrie to protest against the rigged justice? No one said a word either. None of these self-righteous knights. Same thing with his most recent trial at KL. Bribed and/or threatened witnesses, false accusations, non neutral jury, etc.
You wouldn't have moved your ass, because no one in KL gave a shit about the Starks, just like no one gave a shit about a Lannister in the Eyrie or a dead Martell/Targ during the sack of KL or an innocent Frey executed for his family's misdeeds.
Frank now, the maximum I'd do is exit the room in a sullen-if there was this possibility.
Edgar P. northern conspirators?!! lyanna Stark was taking by rhaegar. all they wanted was the return of their sister, and he gave them death.
“If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.” - Lord Eddard Stark
I believe Ned was angry when he got reminded of gruesome deaths his brother and father suffered. I'd be pissed too if some glorified bodyguard reminded me of what happened to my family.
deep inside Jamie always wanted to have a respect of Ned Stark
Poor Jamie petrified at the end when Ned reproach him really show you how much he actually admire Stark and yearns for his approval .
Watching this scene in Season One: I'm with Ned.
Re-watching this scene after Season Three: I'm with Jaime.
That's what is so great with this show. When I saw it the first time, I saw this scene as a confrontation between a noble protagonist and deceptive anti-hero. Once I read past a SoS, I realized that Jamie was an misunderstood protaganist, and Ned was a mis-informed protagonist as well.
The dialogue in the first couple seasons is top notch 🔥🔥
Jaime gives a excellent speech later in the series in which he describes how the complex web of oaths and bonds of loyalty which grow around a knight over the course of a life time inevitably lead him into no win situations when those oaths and loyalties clash or contradict each other and, when often, no decision can be the "right" one.
most badass dialogue between any two characters in this entire show....nothing short of perfection
I personally feel that Ned's dislike of Jaime is more about a hidden jealously than a sense of misguided honor. I would think that Ned wanted nothing more than to absolutely destroy Aerys for what he did to his father and brother, and to be so close to his revenge only to walk in and see that someone else beat him to it just robbed him of any sense of closure or justice.
Interesting take, but no. Ned ain’t like that
“You served him well. When serving was safe”
0:29 What I find funny is that Nikolaj actually is a Northman IRL.
"You just stood there and watched...? And killing him afterwards was a dishonest."
"Wtf Stark? Make up your mind."
Václav Šafařík I know right? Poor Jaime, Ned always hates him, one way or the other.
FlowerTrollSan - lol
Ned isn't upset that he killed the mad king,Ned's pissed off that it took him so long to do it...
This life is temporary. The soul is eternal. We all pay for the depravity we've inflicted on ourselves. It's the redemptive journey we all must endure to save ourselves. Brienne taught him this lesson. He's the most intriguing character in this show. All of us can relate to Jaime Lannister.
As much as I love Ned, I agree with Jamie here.. "Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters."
I love that last line of Ned's "You served him well. When serving was Safe" and those little Looks Ned keeps doing. Look at the unscathed armor. So simple an act yet so meaningful.
Both of them respect each other and both of them make a point here. Ned is reminding jamie of the meaning of loyalty and the risk that is included when picking sides. While Jamie is trying to make Ned realise that sticking purely to principle and loyalty even in the face of something that is wrong (mad kings rule) is also an unwise thing to do.
People criticizing Ned need to realize that Jaime never told ANYONE other than Brienne the truth behind the wildfire. Not Tywin, not Tyrion, not even Cersei. To everyone other than Brienne, Jaime killed Aerys to save his own ass. I'm not sure why he told no-one the truth behind the wildfire; perhaps he didn't want panic to run through the citizens of King's Landing.
Jaime, and the rest of the Kingsguard, are expected to die for their King if needs be. Jaime did not, which makes him look awful. Truthfully, Ned would have done the same in that situation, I imagine; though you can't blame him for not knowing the truth behind the story.
and he didn't bother to find out, he assumed he knew what happened and why, he rode into the throne room on a horse while Jaime was sitting in the throne over the king he killed....not so much as a 'what happened' from dear ole nedless head, he passed judgement immediately...and that really hurt Jaime because at that moment he knew no one cared what his side of the story was
William Blackfyre Don't get me wrong, I love Jaime's character. If anything, he's my favorite character in the book. Had Eddard, or Barristan, or any of the other honorable men who scorned him for his actions been in his place, I imagine they'd have done the same (I think Barristan actually mentions a situation in which he'd feel forced to kill his King during his POV in the books)