8 Biggest Winners and Losers (AoE2 April patch stats)
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- Obviously it's VERY early to draw conclusions from the stats, but now that we've had a bit of time, let's see if there are any surprises in the win rates so far on the new patch.
Featured civilizations: Aztecs, Berbers, Burgundians, Dravidians, Ethiopians, Goths, Gurjaras, Incas, Italians, Koreans, Malay, Malians, Mayans, Portuguese, Sicilians, Spanish, Vietnamese, Vikings
Source if you like to browse the stats yourself: aoestats.io/ or www.aoepulse.com/civ_stats?in... for Arabia only.
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition - Ігри
The Inca team bonus is fantastic on nomad maps; so many times I start building the TC and think 'oh crap I didn't find a sheep, im gonna miss out on boars', and then when the TC completes suddenly a friendly llama appears and it makes me so happy.
I wanna point out the insane synergy the inca's team bonus has with the chinese. Suddenly you've got a pocket sheep you can instantly gather, which massively raises the skill floor of the chinese if that combo is set up.
That is a great shout! I had not thought about that! I play Inca's genuinely 90% of the time (always have).. You play Chinese?!
Interesting synergy but Chinese isn't a really good team game civ, maybe if it's 2v2 arabia but they are kinda bottom tier the more people you add into the game.
@@CrnaStrela Yep. Too much opportunity for the enemy to make Siege Onagers.
@@OJC1992 I don't unfortunately. Outsider perspective ;)
@@CrnaStrela If the synergy is strong enough to significantly boost the chinese feudal age timing I could definitely see an Incas/Chinese flanks setup even in a 4v4. Chinese are just such a strong civ overall that if they can match some of the other civs' feudal age timings I think they'd still get good play.
Honorable mention : the Franks. Somehow avoiding any nerf once again, and getting gambesons (although it only affects the militia line and not the throwing axeman).
annoying civ definitely needs nerf on team games at least
You would think cheaper pike upgrade can hinder the Franks
The Franks really do just keep slipping on by don't they?
@@cmchanakyayadav3359 cope
@@chingamfong Knights are less countered by pikes than you think. Pikes pose no threat to the enemy eco and are easily outmanoueved by Knights, who can punch through buildings fast enough to pose a threat to your base while your pikes struggle to keep up.
I’ve been into the AOE2 scene for years now and your videos have always been helpful in keeping me up-to-date with everything that’s going on. Super well edited and informative, keep it up
it'd be cool to see you try it on your channel
Didn't expect to see you here, "can I get all AoE2 achievements in one sitting" video when?
Malians could go the 5% - 10% - 15% route, and just make the bonus gold dropped off scale with each age.
I had to laugh that the Top 5 target got stretched to 8 and then ended up with even more as civs were grouped together. Good insights!
I find it impressive how these changes actually work so well, I am so used to devs just messing the balance entirely (e.g. league) or not having any impact on it... amazing
Malay has always been one of my favourites for their zerglings, so I'm really happy they're finally getting a much-needed buff. Sad to see Korean and Vietnamese still languishing though
zerg masterrace
Those lings are actually useful now even in castle age, vils making only 1 damage is op
Unspoken about Malians but still very pertinent: all the infantry buffs leading to easier champskarls.
Incas were a straight up empire of American civilisations. I am so happy to see them gaining that buff
Incas watching Mayans and Aztecs downfall: _"Now they will know I'm _*_NOT_*_ Mesoamerican"._
Fun fack: the armor of the aztecs army was a gambeson, so make sense that jaguar warrior gained for free 1 piece armor. PD: i am from south America, sorry for my bad english.
"Man, the Flemish lost big this patch."
"Aren't they called the Burgundians?"
"No, the Flemish specifically lost this patch."
Vikings and Malians have been 2 of my favorite civs for a long time. Glad to see infantry civs becoming more playable
9:40 The cost for the Long Swordsman is the same in Castle Age since Incas lost access to Supplies.
even with such a small sample of games you manage to deliver a very high quality analysis of the current status quo. I am not very keen on giving my hard earned monnnnney to content creators but you my good sir are one of those how deserve it the most, and I am heading to paetreon now to deliver just the way you do all the time, and for so many years. Guys, if you love this game, be many to follow for this is how we show that this realy counts!!!
I am happy with the Goths changes because infantry and the hunter bonus
great video as usual. As for winners, I'd add spanish, since Hera now performs a superb effective flush with them, given their +20 gold bonus after a technology is registered
Hera dropped a tremendous "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" with that strategy, lol.
11:18 that farmer in the right was very happy hearing the news.
@Spirit, I think the changes in Arabia structure (more open, less wood, etc) also impact these rates drastically...
i should probably like and comment seeing as how i've watched so many of these. Thanks SoTL.
I like the idea behind the Organ Gun changes, but they overcompensated with the damage decrease per shot. Giving it some kind of armor piercing effect or just more shots total would help, but it only mildly changed my Portuguese strategy. I just make tons of hand cannoneers now instead to defend my cannons.
I never did the castle drop strat much as sicilians, so to me they came out really good this patch
Would be cool to have that list every half or end of year. How civs drops or goes up their rank after few patches and what could be the real reason of it
You're doing a great job on these videos, bud. Making my job a lot easier as a player lol
It's nice to see Flemish Revolution and First Crusade scaled back. Perhaps Burgundians and Sicilians will get something nice to compensate in a future patch.
When it comes to the Dravidians, their Siege discount is a major improvement for them because they tended to struggle against Mangonel pushes in Castle Age due to no Knights, no Redemption, and garbage Light Cavs. Their only realistic option was to go for a Mangonel trade, which is usually something a player doesn't want to resort to if they can avoid it. The wood discount means that Dravidians can easily come out ahead in Mangonel trades, as long as they trade one-to-one.
Malians are one of my favorite civs, now its my time to shine :)
Always waiting for that classic #1 music change!
I'm excited with these changes
You know this is a serious #1 when the Franks' song kicks in
Finally, a civ based in the desert is topping Arabia win rates.
Hi Sotl
Great video!
I wonder about archer Civs in general. As in every list there are top and flop civs. I think it‘s a little bit sad the 3 bittom civs didn’t get something to help them out...
You should do a video about kreposts and donjons, how they work with different factions, and how they compare to each other. Does Yasama affect a donjon? Can Serjeants build if converted, and if yes, do they build donjons or towers? Is it better to garrison your archers inside a tower, donjon, krepost, or castle? How many donjons does it take to defeat a krepost in a pitched fight, and how many towers to defeat a donjon?
Malians having already a rock solid eco bonus gaining another amazing one is kinda insane. I'm expecting a nerf soon, but seeing how poles and gurjaras were handled I'm not expecting a big nerf right away.
Thanks
i wish the donjon would either become: buildable in darkage (with no arrows in dark age) or count as a feudal age production building (for age advance count).
But they count now to advance
@@LordCoranhon they count as a Prerequisite for an Archery Range or Stable, from what I understand.
@@NoraNoita So skip barracks and build Donjon I guess?
@@RennieAsh I guess, until you want squires, arson or the pike upgrade
About the berbers, I think the pikemen buff nerfed the cav civs substantially
what a thumbnail! the eyes on the archer made me laugh hard😂
I'm curious as to how civs with good hand cannoners will end up. With all these infantry buffs (especially against archers) they will become the more effective infantry counters they were meant to be.
tbf arbs are still amazing counters to FU champs, from something like 15 shots to kill up to 20, doesnt make them bad counters. They mass much much much sooner and are better generalists than hand cannons, including the all important ballistics.
1:00 dunno if u didnt mention it but the three civs there are also archers civs which usually have lower wr as well as being negatively impacted by gambesons.
Hi SOTL! I really enjoy your videos, but I wanted to share some feedback about your recent ones. It seems like you've been speaking much faster, and there's so much more information packed in that it's becoming hard to follow along. To be honest, I've started waiting for the times of my day when my mind is the sharpest to watch your videos; otherwise, it feels overwhelming. I don't know if others feel the same way, but I didn't have this issue with your older videos that had a slower pace. Anyway, have a fantastic day!
Malians is my favorite civ and the Gbetho buffs were so deserved. Tho the gold change might be overkill and will probably be nerfed next patch.
I'd play AOE2 more if my wrist would let me 😅so I come here instead. Amazing content as always!
We need longer look at teamgames
Man, the bottom civs need some love, desperately!
I Just had to comment that I liked how the Auto Captions made it say "Looser number 4 is Thicker Jars."
The end of an Hera... I see what you did there
Didn't see my Celts, but I feel like a winner with the buff to my Raiders
Champions and scorpions feel so good now and of course raiding with raiders
@@jonpaulcer3128 I like the sound of that very much
Not a definitive list but it’s nice to see how it’s going so far.
@SOL, When will we get more Civilisation History vs the game series videos?
Well, guess I won't be meming with Flemish Militia any time soon. I'm glad I completed the Burgundian campaign before this patch so I could enjoy using the Flemish Militia before they got nerfed.
And I'm glad my Bohemians are suffering here. And the Spearman line upgrade cost reduction will be very beneficial to us Bohemian players.
Were the biggest winners as we keep getting new Vids
Malian Gold bonus is 20% before wheelbarrow for some weird rounding reasons. usually the game can store fractures of ressources but atm you always drop of 12 Gold with every vil. thats a huge diffrence in the early game and is propably a bug fix.
They gather that 12 Gold slower than regular vills, so it evens out to 15%
More likes on this
@@devangnivatkar2649 not if we take into account gold duration
Vikings actually got a pretty big nerf for 10x tech mod
like balance matters at all in those games 😅
Hahahaha yes, but its funny 🤷
How?
@@light_david7 Because now that they get the double HP regeneration speed berserks automatically, so it isn't a standalone researchable tech that you can continuously research for a stacking effect to get crazy HP regeneration.
Vietnamese would need hand cannoneers to cope with high pierce armour troops, they already have plenty of gunpowder tech, so would make sense.
Despite that they are not that strong right now, I still love them, so I really hope they will keep their identity.
The Inca,Slav , Malian, sicilian, Malay mafias had a good talk with the devs.
Portuguese will be the loser for now, but i think it was a change in the right direction, making it serve its described purpose, countering mass of units.
Now, it doesn't do that yet, but i trust that the devolopers will give it a significant buff next patch.
yeah by removing their Feitoria. Hate that building.
They raped the Portuguese Empire...
They were finaly good on land maps...
i just want to know how your video impacts the choosing of civs after u uploaded 11
and the civ switzerland :D
Not really a looser of this Patch but in dire need of some love are the Persians for me. They struggled before and now they didnt get any real benefit like a lot of other civs have, which makes them loose even more ground imo!
Malians and Incas were my mains... Now I'm happy and also sad, because they are going mainstream... Will have to look for another cool and underutilized civ...
Yeah, the same case for me. I was playing them a lot even before the buff, and these buffs are a cherry on top.
Hey sotl i wish you make a civ overview for aoe4 like the ottomans or hre
Right now, Malians are insane in 1v1 Arabia. I have been practicing with the Extreme AI and is possible to go up feudal at 18-20 and afford 2 ranges archer production with fletching, double bit-axe, and if done well even with horse collar.
the Mali are Turks with cheaper buildings and a better tech tree at the moment.
I'd argue that the Persians might be a contender for the 3rd looser place you gave the Spanish. They loose their unique ability of producing the first fishing ship before the town center is even build, effectively leading to a similar drop in early eco as for the Spanish. Both Civs got a little boost by getting gambeson, although one could argue that the existence of gambeson makes trashbows worse, so is it a buff for Persians?
In the long run, Spanish also got the pretty nice buff of gold generation via techs that you mentioned and also better missionaries (after researching inquisition). To make up for their nerf on nomad starts, Persians got - nothing. Not sure about their win rates, but I think one might consider if they should regain the 5% faster working TCs and Docks in Dark Age that they had for a short time some years ago.
For Nomad specifically Gambesons is irrelevant anyways. But the Persians at least get their free 50 food and wood eventually. That way they can still afford a fishing ship as soon as their TC goes up. But the Spanish vil lead from their faster TC construction is gone forever.
Can you do a video about the civs with the best hussars in the game and between them the best hussar civ?
These buffed Ethiopians are a great alternative for the still-neglected Koreans, at least the way I play them: archers and siege onagers.
Mama mia, my beloved Italians basically got a nerf from this update thanks to Gambesons, now it's even harder to fight enemy infantry.
What? Italians have the most affordable handcannons with cheap chemistry, buffed arbs, they definitely dont struggle vs infantry. They do still struggle vs any civ with a n early eco bonus though. And that is still a problem that needs fixing, because that includes cavalry civs, which the GC takes too long to mass to counter.
@@08vinster Yes but that assumes you can make it to the Imperial Age without being swarmed by Man-at-Arms or Long Swordsmen; like you said they lack any early eco bonus aside from spending less advancing.
I love the byzantines…
Everyone gets buffs tweaks and the devs try something new for them, but they are leaving byzantines in the limbo forever.
Honestly the thing with Byzantines is the civ itself is well rounded. They have decent everything a jack of all trades is master of none.
I get your grief though. Byzantines is my fav Civ and I would give much for them to get Bloodlines, but it probably would make their already cheap camels a little too strong
@@niki75 yes, but there are certain tweaks that could buff them without making them absolutely broken, take away arbalester and paladin, don’t even give them the options for that, and give them access to bloodline and partian tactics, now you have a historically accurate byzantine army with heavy cavalry and great mounted archers supporting the cheap units…
And it wouldn’t be too broken.
@@TehlItER Taking away Arbalesters would ruin the Byzantine fast Imp strategy, and whatever you have in mind as compensation for it would almost certainly be insufficient. Heavy cav archers need a ton of economy to afford all their upgrades, so they don't synergize with the cheaper Imperial age in the slightest. You'd make Byzantines way worse with such a change.
@@teddyhaines6613 it doesn’t break all that much the idea, they still have perfectly serviceable crossbows, gain standard camels, knights and light cavalry in castle, and have a better option in catas during imperial, plus a cav archer with a lot more hp to help against other stuff
as a Byzantine player, no, leave them alone, they are fine as they are.
Definitely prefer Flemish Milita now. Cheaper cost makes them essentially a trash unit, as 15 gold isn’t a lot. And switch to barracks from town center makes it easier to manage Flemish pop after the initial push.
Honestly just a adjustment to their unique unit would be nice as rn, I feel like I’m using them more as a Infantry civ then a Calvary civ.
Vietnamese KNOWN before the patch even was announced essentially. Obvious that they'd go from 44% winrate to... LOWER than that.
Then later in the vid 44.04 pops up... Beautiful knowledge!
7:15 What does the highlighted boarders do in-game?
That's the safe zone because of the treaty in Nomad. You can't be attacked while in your highlighted borders there.
Im wondering how effective was the patch in balancing civs. Has it closed the gap between the best and worst civs?
If not, i also wonder which was the most balanced patch.
There's too many maps and settings and civs to ever have a remotely comprehensive answer to that question.
Mostly care about arabia and arena standard conquest, like most.
W video
My favorite civs are Malians and Incas. I'm a happy bunny
In reality gambeson doesn't really make much difference in the big picture. If you could get it in feudal age, then it would.
Sicilians will gain some, I think. As you said, there's a lot to figure out, especially new openings that drop the barracks for a donjon. And with play rate increasing, there's a lot of new players who have to adjust to them wholesale.
Building a donjon in place of barracks is extremely slow. SO unless you're trushing, its a much slower build, add to that sicilians are always forced to horse collar (farm tech), with zero eco bonus until their farm bonus kicks in in castle, they will always be a subpar civ. The game revolves around eco bonuses, so long as sicilians dont have any they'll be bad, unless they overbuff serjeants or something.
Many are suggesting they remove the farm tech bonus and make it a flat +200 food on farms so you arent forced into HC.
Best they can do is to go back to 50% reduction and 7 serjeants per TC....
I'll be fine if donjon replaces barracks for full, techs too
@@G_Serra Exactly. This is what they need about donjons. Completely replace barracks with all tech and make them available in Dark age without arrows.
For me sicilians are the most fun civ currently. It would completely change the playstyle which is something this game needs.
@@Bizziiik dark age no arrows will be fine too
Mansa Musa would be so proud.
Viernamese neef some love
My boys the Koreans lose anyways, when will we get decent patch to give us some alms?
On that note, the three civs I play a lot seem to be bottom three.
Could you compare Sicilian and Teuton farming bonus?
While I really like the donjon changes in theory, the idea of it being a “prerequisite” building is worthless in practice, as you dont want to wait until feudal before building your barracks anyway, and players trying to force the donjon approach is why i would guess the win rate dropped. Unfortunately, idk how to fix it. It would be a nightmare allowing them to be built in dark age. Maybe instead allow it to be a prerequisite for castle age?
One idea I have seen is make them available in dark age, but they don’t shoot arrows until feudal. That way, they still act as a prerequisite, but aren’t overly aggressive in dark age.
@@regal_eagle717 yah, i thought of that too. But i still think it would be broken- you could just go to someones woodline, wall in your vils, and build a donjon. The opponent cant get it to attack it and also cant counter tower until feudal. And as soon as the sicilian player hits feudal you are instantly being shot.
@@nathanfranks1476 fair points. Though, assuming you are doing this as a replacement for a barracks, that also means you have no barracks at home. And you would have to idle some vills (travel time and are now in the front) in dark to drop the donjon , at a time when every resource is even more important than normal. I guess I’m saying I’m not sure it would be THAT broken, but I think it is close enough for debate.
Sounds like Mailians need a new overview ;)
Your subtitles have a lot of typos, I think you generate them using your voice cause the words they mess up sound similar (pierce armor = pure summer) but there was enough for it to be noticable. every civ is a sieve, lol.
how does 20% longer hunt work?
like mechinically?
It's Mansa Musa time baby 😎! #Maliansweep
That berbers were top 1 on arabia 1v1 prepatch shows us how usless stats is for measuring a civs strength
Malians bonus is actually 20% before upgrades. The civ is broken, developers messed up badly.
Me in the last week winning 50 games just as Slavs so sotl can feature them in a top 5 video
So the Good Jars are the thicker Jars now?
This got me curious, how would it go if you had a civ with access to all infantry, another all ranged, and another all cavalry units? Who would win?
the only ranged, if they micro like a god, and the Stable one if they have uncontested gold income and are quick to mass Paladin and raid with them. it's a toss up between the two.
@@NoraNoita I mean also counting all unique units, not sure that was clear
Something I want to question here is the lost of winrate of the Sicilians. Surely this is just a factor of more people playing the civ and not knowing the play style to an actual real change in power.
dude do some vs AI matches its been a while
Wtf malians was a civ at a almost perfect 49,9% win rate??
So they got 2 huge buffs for what? So the devs have a reason for another patch where they renerf them?
salary to devs doesn't pay itself
I feel Bulgarians are a winner here too. Do there konnic unit get gambisons off the horse?
Gambesons are only for the Militia-line, not for all the infantry.
idk why teutons lost 8 positions after patch in win rating %
Portogeese have Feitoria they are fine with nerfs.
My two favourite civs are Malians and Incas, two civs that were perfectly average and mostly unpopular... Now both will get overplayed, overhated and nerfed...
The real #1 winner of the patch is Franks for going nerf-less for another entire patch.
And buffed with gambesons...
1st. Keep up the great videos SotL, love them.
Also, cheating is... Breaking the Law :O
Malians will probably get nerfed next patch, their bonus looked overpowered from the start, and combined with a greaty tech tree I am not surprised to see them up there.
Time for an italian buff...or split...
it was already "split". Considering the whole americas only has three civs that italy already has the same quantity...
Seeing the evolution of Goth is something amazing to me.
For so long they were trash, and I did not even bothered...