Tang Soo Do vs. Shotokan | Kata Battle
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- #karate #tangsoodo #shotokan
Sensei Shawn Danaher taught us Shotokan's Kanku Dai, which is almost identical to one of our American Tang Soo Do forms.
It seemed only fit that we preform our own style's version of these forms for you. Each form is comprised of portions of each styles basic and intermediate forms.
Please enjoy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Follow us on social media:
Website: www.towestlake...
Facebook: / towestlakekarate
Instagram: / towestlake_karate
Yelp: goo.gl/5okzTd
.Personal.
Facebook: / justinichi
Instagram: / sensei_ichi
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I Shoot with a Lumix G7X: amzn.to/2HyLL3g
DJI Osmo Pocket: amzn.to/2Yb8cAY
Microphone : amzn.to/2YdS2H4
I really enjoy watching the “same” kata done in differing styles.
Thank you. Where do you see the biggest contrast?
Sensei Ichi I see the biggest difference in the start(opening move) the foot placement/landing after the sidekicks (jodan uraken uchi jodan yoko Geri keage) when turning into the elbow strike ( mae empi uchi) to left and right, and after the front kick, the transition to the back fist strike (Tate uraken uchi) in Kosâ Dachi. There’s diffences in how you do knife hand strikes as well but I saw that in the videos you did with Sensei Dan from Artofone dojo. Sorry I threw a lot of Shotokan/karate terms in there but I don’t really know what you call them in tang su do.
Haha thats fine, I get the point you're trying to make. We also slide up and back to certain movements I've noticed and Shotokan does not. Towards the end of the kata, things change and are drastically different then at the end they go back to the same. So funny how that works right?
Thank you for your insight!
That's the first time I've seen Tango soo do vs Shotokan, and for someone who has been studying Shotokan for nearly 30 years, I was very impressed with it. I admire the origins of both of them in their Kata/Forms/Patterns. Both have an interesting approach to their application of movement. It's always interesting to see how and why a technique has become the way it has? The flow, thought process behind it. I have always told my own students over the years that, karate may be your foundation, but never limit your knowledge solely in karate or another so called style. Recognise yourself as a martial artist, that can adapt and counter attack their opponent. Thank you for uploading this video and I do hope to see many more amazing comparisons in the future.
Wow thank you so much. That was very insightful and kind of you.
The purpose of this video was first and foremost to show the similarities in our two arts. All it really is, are two different perspectives and mindsets from their own creators. I thoroughly enjoyed learning shotokan and then to see them at the same time, was truly enjoyable. There is a film project I'm working on with Bassai, huge huge project. Can't wait for you to see it. Stay tuned!
@@SenseiIchi Sensei Ichi I love learning about the Bassai Katas, especially Bassai Dai. Ive seen it in It's variations in Karate, and also in Taekwondo. I look forward to seeing your video about this too. Keep up the good work!
@@SenseiIchi I have a preposition for you! What about you compare Tang soo do with ITF Taekwondo or another Korean martial art like Hapkido or something. It would be fun to see if any of them have something. Maybe if you want to you can try to compare with a chinese martial art like Kung fu and see the similarities and differences between a particular Kata, that would be even more fun to watch on my opinion!
Karate is beautiful 🎉
It truly is!
Excellent displays by both senseis here. I especially liked the moments when both forms were in synch with one another, like at 1:21. There are little differences here and there but ultimately they both have the same essences. Great job!
I love seeing side by side comparisons between different styles. This was awesome. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you, I'm glad you liked it! Thank you for commenting and watching.
Love both 🇯🇵Shotokan Karate🇯🇵 and 🇰🇷Tang Soo Do🇰🇷. I want to practice the two of them someday. Thanks for sharing.
Great to see a friendly comparison between kata of various styles. Jesse Encamp and JKA's Naka Sensei have been doing this for quite some time. I started out in Chung Do Kwan before joining a traditional JKA Shotokan dojo many moons ago. At the time, all the katas were essentially identical. Next, it would be interesting to compare bunkai. (Sorry, I don't know the Korean word for bunkai!) Please keep up the good work!
Its so beautiful to see 2 different fighting arts perform together same time.
I’ve been training Shotokan since ‘91. It’s interesting to notice the Tang Soo Do version utilizing the side thrust kick (kekomi) where the Shotokan version uses side snap kick (keage). Even more interesting is that you will often see Shotokan stylists swapping out the side snap kick for the side thrust kick when competing in kata, particularly in Europe at WKF/WUKO tournaments, because the use of the latter will often earn a higher score. In any case, I enjoyed the video, and, like others also remarked, appreciate the aesthetics of Tang Soo Do. Incidentally, the Tang Soo Do movements look very similar to the Japanese Gensei-Ryu style of karate.
I think that was one of the most challenging things to adjust to, snapping side kicks and not turning my hip over. This goes against everything we teach in my school, between that and chopping low instead of to the face.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting. I hope you enjoyed both and the video.
Truth be told, I enjoyed both performances. It's obvious you are both masters in your respective styles, but you also have your forms move beyond repeating techniques. You both took the basic "story" the form was telling and added your own experience, training influences, and personalities to it. This made the story not the form's, but yours. That made this a pleasure to watch.
That is a nice artistic outlook and insight to our performance. We have each been doing our own versions of our forms for a very long time. Time for us to put our own spin on them like you had mentioned. Good eye! Thank you for watching and commenting. I hope you enjoyed it!
Shuri-Te/Shorin Ryu is the common ancestor of Shotokan and Tang Soo Do, and the latter's name is a Korean rendering of Karate's old name, To-Te (China Hand). Alternatively, TSD/Subak is called Kong Soo Do (compare Chinese Kongshoudao), which means the modern meaning of Karate, empty hand.
Beautifully done here!
Thank you!
This was far better than I expected.
Well done, fellas.
Thank you.
That was badass
for anyone whose wondering... the guy on the right is doing the kanku-dai kate in the shotokan way and the one on the left is doing it in the tang soo do way
WOW! That was awesome! I’m looking forward to when I can do this! I’m currently a student in Tang Soo Do & I’m and Orange belt 1 stripe. I’m preparing for my green belt test at the end of September 2020.
You’re lucky in Tang soo do it will only take 3 years to get a black belt. In Shotokan it takes 5.
Both looked great 👍🏻
As a black belt in TangSooDo I’m aware of the history of my style. It was a delight to see the technical and stylistic difference in the kata/poomse
Good! TSD E Dan here. Kusanku has been one my top learning goals since I saw my instructors doing it long time ago.
What I love most is catching small pieces of it along all the hyungs we do.
Tangsoo!
Very nice video. Thanks for sharing
Breathtakingly beautiful. I love the background music as well.
WOW!
it is amazing how different two Karate styles are!
Both look amazing though!
Thank you so much. How different and yet how similar.
Very nice! Both show great form and intensity. Hard call. Very impressed with both. My discipline was Karakido Karate.
Thank you! I'll take a tie, it's like a push in black jack. Neither a win or a loss.
Awesome! I love the spirit of learning and cooperation between you two masters. Great music btw.
Thank you very much. I very much enjoyed learning from Shawn and the art of Shotokan.
As a Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan practitioner, I have to say that both are different but equally well done.
Thank you sir!
Do you know if there is an equivalent poomsae in TKD MDK?
@@victorivanrodriguez4841 There are TKD Moo Duk Kwan schools that utilize the same patterns (with minor differences)as Tang Soo Do.
Fascinating, gave me goosebumps right away. Would like to know if this Tang Soo Do version of kata has any usage like normal karate kata has.
I've been watching this video a lot and learning that same kata but in the Shorin-ryu way, I like seeing how different styles of martial arts perform this kata. very impressive the both of you.
Thank you very much. I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
@@SenseiIchi of course not a problem at all.
My strange journey went from Tang Soo Do
Then later testing for my first Dan in Shotokan, then years later going back into Tang Soo Do
Wow! I really enjoyed watching the tang soo do version, first time seeing it, loved it 👌
Any style that adheres to a balance is badass.......Tang Soo got them sweet li'l circles and deep stances.
2 great works of art. Thanks Sensei for sharing this.
Thank you so much, it was my pleasure !
Very very good and educational vídeo. Contrats both masters!
Awesome demonstration
Both kata are done extremely well.
That was cool.
Woah! Awesome! Both styles look very familiar to Wado-Ryu’s Kushanku!
Thank you!
Good eyes. Kankudai is Gichin Funakoshi version of Kushanku. Kushanku was a master who learn to Kanga Sakugawa.
Oliv LG Yeah! I’ve trained in wado for just over 10 years now, and I’ve learnt a little shotokan at university. Ive just becomes the head instructor for our uni karate club so it will be changing to wado Ryu. A little sad how I can’t learn a little more shotokan since there are no shotokan teachers anymore
The way how some of the styles they do in the Shotokan and Tang Soo Do are similar since the Founder of Tang Soo Do was a practitioners of Shotokan.
Love to see different arts coming together to share!
Me too!! There will be more of this to come, stay tuned!
My roots are in Okinawan Goju Ryu. With over a decade of it and 3rd dan, I wanted to try something else. Mind you, my heart still beats Goju Ryu and I'm used to strong high stances. I tried Shotokan, Kyokushin and ITF Taekwondo. Shotokan reminded me a lot about Goju Ryu, except the stance heights. However, quite a few similarities are in it, like the explosive attacks and quick technical takedowns. Kyokushin was even more similar to Goju Ryu as it focused a great deal on body conditioning as well, which I felt lacked in Shotokan. However, when I switched to Taekwondo as my 3rd weekly martial art, I quickly saw where the focus was. Quick leg techniques as well as longer range engagements held me interested, but failed me when anything came closer, constantly making me revert to my earlier learned Karate techniques. Tang Soo Do looks insanely interesting, especially because it has a great deal in comparison with Karate. I may try it if I find a decent and close enough dojo to attend. Cheers for this vid. Awesome.
Very well done. Tang Soo Do is Karate's cousin
Thank you so much!
WOW BOYS, AMAZING! Well done!!!!! Very nice to see the two styles next to each other
Thank you! I figured everyone would appreciate the contrast, glad that you enjoyed it.
Sensei Ichi I sure did! Especially being a Taekwondo boy and now satarting Karate (Goju ryu) I see so many differences and so many similarities.
Korean to Japanese, just like us!
My favorite kata (I'm practicing Shotokan)
It's really great to see it in Cobra Kai ;)
Both are outstanding, but TSD WON FOR ME, but hard call! Loved the music, it adds to the grace of both performances!
@Keith Hannigan Thank you! Thank you!
Que belleza de video...
I see a lot of similarity to the Funakoshi karate of the 1930s, which makes sense. It's rather like watching the father and son technique, each having different regional accents.
I also noticed that the TSD hyung retains the original Okinawan technique of leaning forward on the arm raise. It looks like you are interpereting this as grabbing the opponents knees to take him down. In the Okinawan version this sequence can be interpeteted as releasing from a grab from behind.
this is literally the only decent perfromance of tangsudo I have seen on youtube (outside of tournament footage ofc)
Truestm wow thank you , that is quite the compliment!
Sensei Ichi I wish it was. I really wish it was a compliment.
I thought the TSD version looked more rushed, but at the same time some of Sensei Ichi's techniques looked sharper. I'd say tie.
I was actually trying to keep up with Shawn. We incorporate slides and pauses in different parts of our forms in Tang soo do as I'm sure you saw. That was the reason for my haste. Thank you for commenting!
Very cool, thank you for sharing with us, OSSU!
Of course, thank you for watching and enjoying our performance!
Best tae kwan do stylist I have seen on her most suck. It was nice seeing your form I have black belt in tae kwan do from early 80’s and it brought back memories. I believe early tae kwan do was much better. I
The forms were performed much like the Japanese with attention to detail
Thank you
The Tang Soo Do version is different than I learned it in Soo Bahk Do
Where do you see the biggest difference?
Would you please consider providing a video of a technical breakdown of your form?
Interesting comparison.
That's nice.
Thanks!
Excellent performance gentlemen.
Thank you!
Beautiful forms.
Thank you!
WOW! Very nice fellas! :-)
Thank you very much for watching and commenting!
This is kanku kata.original kata is kusanku in Okinawan karate. Korean tang Soo do they retained gong San gun which means kusanku.funakoshi changed name to kanku because Japanese doesn’t understand who is kusanku.tang Soo do is a Korean pronunciation of ‘ ka ra te do’ that’s why tang Soo do still have karate kata
tough call because my base is in shotokan, but i enjoy the aesthetic of the Tang Soo Do form as well. Too close to call
Ok ok, I'll take it! Thank you .
Um belo vídeo. Parabéns!
obrigado, é muito gentil de sua parte dizer.
I learned this form from Danny Lane, 7th dan in the Chuck Norris System, of course formerly Chun Kuk Do and originally American Tang Soo Do. Moly version is a bit different. You are both more talented then me, and I appreciate this really cool comparison so mich. I really appreciate you two took the time to do this. Really neat to see.
Instructor Lex thank you so much, that if very kind of you to say. I love the fact that there are so many variations of the same form. I’d love to learn them all, both physically and mentally.
Well if I’m not mistaken I saw you do Bassai in a very creative video in the hills with flowers and things of that nature around. Inspiring.
I’m 4th dan in Chuck Norris System, but older material so back when he called it American Tang Soo Do. My instructor prefers to call it CNS so that’s what I do. Just a name.
I came to CNS as a 1st dan in MDK Tang Soo Do, so I learned forms like Kong Sang Koon the CNS way, but Bassai and under was Korean version. I was not made to convert the forms I already cover but I have been trying through the years slowly. Your version of Bassai is great as is your version of Kong Sang Koon. Inspiring videos, seriously. If you get a moment check out my version of Bassai on my page, fun comparison.
Thank you for sharing and thank you for kind words. Where abouts do you train now? Geographically...
I currently just train at home and of course I get my training in by teaching. I run 2 program locations in the west Phoenix valley.
Instructor Lex right on! As long as you’re still active right?
Place your votes... Who's did you prefer? Shotokan or Tang Soo Do
Kenpo ! Sorry that wasn't the question oops 🤔
I tend to prefer Shotokan, it being the style of karate that I practice myself BUT, in Kanku Daï, there are only two kiai. Since the kiai at 1:03 doesn't belong, Tang Soon Do won.
Edit: Tang Soo Do, lol
Tang Soo Do
Hahah here goes Johnny again!
Wooooo!!! We win by default, that's what I'm talking about!
That so cool to watch. My aesthetic prejudice is for the lower constant line of the Japanese kata where the legs are always under tension... But that issues in a style with great power in the forward surge but with legs starting kicks from a tighter more tense position. Tang So Do opted for looser kicking from a position of less tension...and thus their line is less locked down and strict. It needs to be like that. Interesting looking at vintage JKA footage while the line was always low...that is the height at which the hip stay virtually set at throughout the kata...this seems even more emphasized after the 1980s up to the present.. It may be the the TSD and TKD appropriations of Shotokan derive from the earlier version. While I love Shotokan Kata..I have some reservations... it is best to start very young in this style.. people that start later eg late teens and 20s may end up with hip and knee issues after 50. Same issue with Shaolin...On another more posiive point Shotokan practitioners always acquire ridiculous leg strength over time
Thank you for sharing!
I really think thr shotokan was a lot more crisp movements. Karate also uses bunkai wich really makes a world of difference when you're doing the applications for the moves and seeing what really works.
The belt length of the Shotokan practitioner appears to be too long for my understanding. Almost as if he wrapped the belt only once around his waist.
And I think a Tang Soo Do vs. Matsubayashi Ryu round would be very interesting too.
You can clearly see shotokan superiority in technique and grounding.
Beautiful video
Thank you so much!
Awesome! I know it would be really time consuming to do it, but a side by side comparison of all the TSD hyungs and their Shotokan equivalents would be amazing!
Wow that would be a very big challenge, not sure if I could do that but possibly some day.
Thank you for watching!
I actually have this idea in mind of doing this. Finding one similar kata/form and having different Tang Soo Do/ Soo bahk do/ Moo duk kwan/ etc martial artists to preform them and then doing a mash up of sorts. Even include Japanese Karate versions as well just for good measure. I think it would be fun to make and amazing to watch the similarities and differences.
What do you think? Should I do it?
Alright then I will!!! Thank you for the encouragement, I'm on the job!
@@barrettokarate I didn't know Cynthia Rothrock was Tang Soo Do. I remember her from her forms competition days in the 1980s, but I remember her wearing what looked like a Wushu uniform. Maybe she transitioned from TSD to a Chinese style at some point?
@@barrettokarate Good info! We're showing our age! I read Black Belt magazine religiously in the 1980s and followed the tournament scene pretty closely. What really stands out in my mind from that period was the forms competition rivalry between John Chung and George Chung. Man,, I am old!
Which one still have the original form of kushanku ?
Minus such videos that you do not understand who is who. I liked the kata sensei with beard, is that shotokan karate?
The long belt was a bit distracting haha. But this was fantastic!
Lots of people feel that way, its so funny how a long belt can really be thaaat distracting. Just let the beauty of the two forms whisk you away to a non long belt land....
Thanks for posting - really interesting comparisons of form - would love to see more like this - for those out there from the Japanese tradition any thoughts on Bunkai application for the opening sequence?
Thank you for watching. I have plans to do something similar to this, it will be very exciting and collaborative. Stay tuned...
Nice!!
stratos701 thanks , you’re nice for saying that.
You can see where Tang Soo do and karate are related!
It seems Tang Soo Do = power, while Shotokan = speed.
Nice!
Thank you, that is nice of you to say.
That was great comparing each other version of the kata maybe you could try to do the same kata but with a shorin ryu Okinawa version too that way you’ll have three versions and see the Evolution of the Kanku Dai kata very beautiful and interesting 🤔🧐🤨🤓🤙
Ricardo Diaz i have something similar in mind for the future, so stay tuned. Thank you for watching!!
Both are great, as a 3rd dan in Tang Soo Do, our version is closer to the shotokan
interesting
Name of the tang soo do kata ????
Great comparison.
Thank you!
@@SenseiIchi can I put in a request for Gankaku/Jindo, or Empi/Wansu?
@@robertwelch3240 Definitely. I'll see what I can do.
Awesome! Can I ask what the music is from?
Thank you! the song is Never Give Up by Tyler Brown Williams
So now do a Taekwondo vs tang soo do vs karate 👍🏽
Exactly 👍🏽
Good jobs men
Very interesting contrast and seemingly similarities, at times between these two katas Sensei Ichi! If I am not mistaken and my eyes did not deceive me, both your Tang Soo Do form, as well as Sensei Sean's Shotokan Karate kata, at times both showed glimpses of similar techniques? How did you both decide to perform these two specific forms or katas together? In other words what made you both choose these two specific ones, in order to perform them simultaneously, side by side for the comparison. They were both awesome, as well as superbly executed by both of you, Osu! Juan 😊🥋👍✌👊✊🤜🤛.
Yes, they are the same form but different versions. The Shotokan version and the American Tang Soo Do version.
People had suggested and requested to see our two versions side by side to show the contrast and similar yet different techniques and basics.
Thank you so much Juan, hope you are well.
@@SenseiIchi awesome glad to know that it was not just my imagination nor my eyes deceiving me. I truly enjoyed watching both katas, side by side. I wish you and your family, an up and coming great weekend, Osu!✌👍😊
No your eyes are just fine! Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed them. Enjoy your weekend as well!
golpes penetrantes y giros de la cadera y la pelvis y la cintura y la rotación de la cadera y la pelvis en tang soo do tradicional y karate shotokan tradicional
In your opinion what is better for self defense tang Soo do ,goju ryu or shotokan????
@Rob Koch I'm a big build but still quite flexible I am mainly just looking to be able to defend myself if I need to I'm still in school and I see kids fighting that dont know how to fight and I wanna be ready incase as I've had little scraps before and one them because of my size and strength but i want to know how to defend myself properly if I get into a real fight.
For a bigger build and self defense would you say shotokan or tang soo do
Kanku dai!
Which is the TSD kata
As I am an Orange belt
chetna singh it’s called Koon San Goon
Hey, nice Vid I am parcial to Shotokan. However since I am unfamiliar with TSD I can not make an unparcial desicion. That being I like the form of the way Sensei Ichi did his kata. One for TSD. I am not worried I believe since I think for the competition Shotokan won. So tie game for now.
Haha fair fair, always good to weigh out the pros and cons. Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts.
@@SenseiIchi I wish you guys tried to time things a little more synchronous ... I'm aware that the pace of the styles is different but it would have been awesome to be able to compare differences in techniques a little more directly. Great video
Can someone answer me why is it that they are the same? 😂 i am a shotokan practicioner and made me amazed. A korean martial arts and japanese martial arts
Tang Soo Do is basically the "Korean Karate". They both have similar origins afaik
Basically tang soo do was heavily influenced by shotokan because Korea was occupied by Japan at the time so the creator combined shotokan with traditional Korean martial arts like taekyon and I belive there was some influence from Chinese martial arts as well, but the forms where basically all shotokan and then the creator of tang soo do added his own flair to it
Shotokan
Same it
💪 Tang Soo Do!! 👊
Woot wooot!!! Tang soo!
Looks great! Is there an "original" Okinawan version?
There's a version of Kanku Dai in Shorin Ryu, but I believe they call it Kushanku.
Yes, I've heard that as well.
Yeah there's a kusanku sho and kunsanku dai
@@dwddindin True, but very seldom are the sho versions taught. In my dojo I learned both the Dai and Sho versions of Bassai. But I only learned the Dai versions of Kwanku, Gankaku, and Gojushiho. The Sho versions are really lost art forms, sadly. We are showing our age as karateka by even talking about Sho kata variations. We truly are becoming dinosaurs!
@@danielreid3476 so true
My vote has to be Tang Soo Do, but that's not the point, both are beautiful!
But it's still appreciated, thank you, thank you ,thank you!
el cinturón negro de la derecha: "estoy cansado jefe"
Tang So Di is karate??
I've never heard of Tang So Di.
I get too distracted by the technical issues with the shotokan kata. I trained with shigeru takashina for many years, that kata needs work imo. Kanku Dai is deceptively difficult.
Let's see yours then
Search shigeru takashina kanku dai. That’s where I trained for over 30 years. Watch his first move. Notice he stays the same height. Watch him finish every block and every punch. He was in his 60s then well past any competition level karate. Still his kanku dai, is fundamentally better. You rush techniques, don’t finish blocks and your first punch is weak. Just my observations on how to improve.
I meant to say your first punch in combinations is weak. You sacrifice technique for speed. This is not consistent with the way I was taught.
Tang soo doo very high😊
Son lo mismo en kata o formw
👍
Right back at cha! Thank you.
Tang soo do is known as Korean karate
son lo mismo