The Storyline That Ruined Game of Thrones
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2018
- Today we talk about the Game of Thrones interpretation of George RR Martin's Dorne plotline...ugh.
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Oberyn, “We don’t hurt little girls in Dorne.”
Ellaria, “Let’s hurt this little girl.”
Ellaria: we must avenge the martells like oberyn would’ve wanted.
Also ellaria: *slaughters the rest of oberyn’s fucking family*
Captain hook The plot of contradiction and foolishness. What a waste.
Especially since the book storyline about Dorne is actually brilliant and could have easily been adapted to Jon being Rhaegar's son.
Tongue in cheek answer: but didn’t they wait until she was on the boat leaving Dorne?
@Lord Cregan Stark no they didn’t, reread the books
Well.. the good old days when we considered Dorne to be the worst of GoT
I still think it is, though it's got some serious competition. (unfortunately) -__-'
Lmao!
i was thinking the same exact thing
U mean ONLY for those who never quite got the show as well as they assumed they did
Agreed
Ellaria: All right girls; what are we gonna do?
Snakes: AVENGE TWO MARTELLS!
Ellaria: And how are we gonna do that?
Snakes: KILLING TWO MARTELLS
😂
I wish Ellaria broke mentally like she did but her daughters turned against her and became good characters. Maybe even have one became a more major
TheJaviferrol tyrion lannister killed one lannister and may yet kill another. Sometimes you absolutely disagree with your closest allies
Anthony Poindexter I think your overlooking the context of Tyrion killing Tywin. I don’t feel these two situations are quite the same.
Stinger Johnny they're not no. Just the first example I thought of for patricide
Dorne: Can’t get much worse than this
The Long Night: Hold my giant’s milk
You're insane if you think the Long Night was worse than Dorne. The Long Night wasn't great, but it had multiple redeeming qualities.
AH Red no.
No character development (maybe Theon but we already knew that he was on the road to redemption)
No major character died. Not that we want to see our favorite characters die but we’re GOT fans and are addicted to the way the show rips our hearts out in its meaningful way.
The Night King and the wights wiped out in a single episode after seven seasons of buildup. Arya is a faceless assassin but she’s not invisible and you would think that a creature who has been around for thousands of years would sense her presence, let alone five of them. I mean, she nearly got killed in the library by a few of the wights and you’re telling me that she managed to get past hundreds more without being detected.
Theon dies senselessly.
Bran serves no purpose.
We’re supposed to be more afraid of Cersei than the NK, which makes no sense.
The list goes on.
I’d take Sand Snakes storyline over that mess of an episode any day.
@@alexthomas962 There was supposed to be no character development in that episode. Simply a fight for survival. It is kind of like in "Clash of Champions" (im pretty sure it was in this book) The battle at Kings Landing was literally a few paragraphs maybe a page. It only mentioned Tyrion getting his nose messed up by an axe and being saved. Then it skips to him being in bed. No character building, the show made an episode or two of the event(its been a while). The main characters dying in the first few seasons was intended only for the purpose of showing who to cheer for. How messed up some of the characters where. It had purpose, it was shocking yes but that was a secondary effect. At this point we all know the character motivations, there is no real need to kill characters off for the purpose of killing them. Bran's purpose was to lure the Knight King to a trap. For sure I do not see Cersei as a bigger threat than the Knight King though, that part is valid. Dorne was nonsensical and terrible.
Phillip Martinez Battle of Blackwater had a lot of characterization. Tyrion trying to prove his worth and being cast aside when victory came; Joffrey wimping out and taking the glory; the Hound saying “screw this” and leaving Joffrey. There are still three episodes left and yes, characterization would be appreciated in those episodes because if they’re fully characterized now then what’s the point of seeing what they do next?
Well again the writers took liberties with that episode. In fact they took liberties with several of them but no one complained. Their was character building for several characters in the battle against the night king as well. The main issue is that people had terrible TVs or tried watching on their phones. Another one is that instead of two 50 minute episodes it was one large episode that was 90 minutes long. Before that the complaint was the episodes were too short.
Dorne had such promise in Season 4 with Pedro Pascal as Oberyn. It all went downhill from there.
@Bryan Morgan Yeah, he does. But the entire concept of Dorne doesn't...
I did read the books. I meant the casting choice for Oberyn gave me hope that the showrunners knew what they were doing with Dorne at first.
@Sightless Sniper You've gotten the saying wrong. Something going downhill definitely means to get worse(or in the olden times, perish), lending it's meaning from the usual connotation of things lowering being a negative thing. Swallow your pride and check any thesaurus or dictionary and they'll all agree.
@Sightless Sniper "In everyday speech, a phrase may be any group of words, often carrying a special idiomatic meaning; in this sense it is synonymous with expression.- -
Wkipedia - Phrase]". While I might be wrong, I do think the quote encompasses the words 'to go downhill' pretty well. Also, you seem to be on the younger side, so as a tip: Don't try to make everything on the internet a dick measuring contest, it looks stupid.
Pedro Pascal made Oberyn one of my favourite GOT characters.
Sets out to avenge the death of a family member
...
*Kills two more family members*
“weAk MeN wiLl nEveR rUle dOrNe agaIN*
And then they got wiped out just like that 😂 I mean ..they can just keep the youngest heir to do their bidding but boiiii D&D is just so stupif
Olly Booth madness doesn't denote a poorly written character
They just did fanservice with that. To make the characters hated because they couldn't stick tot he plot in the books.
Anthony Poindexter "oh thry are just crazy"
"oh they are kust dumb"
"oh they just forgot (the fucking weapon that can kill dragons)"
Lazy. Bad. Terrible. GoT.
Fast forward to the final episode and there’s some weak ass man ruling dorne that just cucks a vote to bran 😂😂
The Dorne plot and the Arya in Braavos plot were warning signs of what was to come.
Arya in Braavos wasn't that bad. But it also irrelevant.
She used the face mask only for revenge Robb and Catelyn.
@@mikehoot3978 the fact that it had almost no impact makes it kinda bad
@@crazyweirdgirl115 Agree. But they destroyed almost every character since season 7.
Kit Harrington warned us:
epicly disappointing.
When they burned Shireen they burned all credibility the show had left.
In a way at least D&D got that part of GRRM's writing right 😂
"The Dornish plot went totally south"
I see what you did there
LIBERALISM AND FEMINISM AND SOCIALISM ARE A MENTAL DISORDER
BadNews Kelly Leak what are you then, fascist?
BadNews Kelly Leak so is typing everything in caps
@@fatbroccoli8
But strictly speaking, this means typing everything in caps is not a mental disorder.
@@badnewskellyleak5974"Liberalism"
The rights of the Human individual
Consent of the governed
Equality before the law
Liberal democracy
Secularism
Rule of law
Economic and political freedom
Freedom of speech
Freedom of the press
Freedom of religion
Private property and a market economy
Why the hell would liberalism be a mental disorder?
Would you perfer the state to be run by the Church and all the horrors that come with it?
What pissed me off is that the Dornish stood around and let it happen...the show basically made them look like they had NO sense of honor.
yeah I was like, 'oh yeah the Daynes, Yronwood, and Ullers would just let this happen
@@davidlewis5312 It's so true i mean look at what the opinion of the northern houses had with the boltons. Some sided with them either out of fear or necessity. While other are like no they betray the Starks their oathbreakers and kingslayers and will just wait to rebel against them or something etc.
I think murdering the ruler and his entire family for petty reasons should have some serious consequences. Like for example: House Yronwood be like "hey this is some BS your not legitimate you killed Trystane and now the prince of Dorne, cause Oberyn died in a trial by combat that he volunteered to fight in and lost. this is not what Oberyn would want klling his entire family you traitor".
And house Yronwood rebels proclaims themselves kings of Dorne again, like the old days and are joined by houses like Dayne and etc. Causing Dorne too have their own Civil war, as Houses loyal too Doran flock too Yronwood. And house's dissatisfied flock too Elleria. An boom Nymeria war 2.0.
That’s the show. Their writers are crap. It never would have happened with Martins writing. The book Dorne story is AMAZING
@VoidKeeper Even worse when they mentioned Dorne in previous episodes, as the new prince supports Daenerys.
@@davidlewis5312 Well, of all the Dornish houses, these three are actually the most likely to flip. The Daynes if Darkstar is in charge, the Yronwoods rebelled three times just in the last century and used to rule half of Dorne before the Rhoynar came, and well...."half the Ullers are half mad, and the other half is worse".
Anyone else though? Like the Jordaynes and Fowlers? I can't see it.
The worst thing is Aero Hotah, in the books, is glad that the sand snakes wear transparent clothes, that way he's sure they are not hiding some kind of weapon under it...
...And in the show he gets stabbed by a knife hidden in the clothes of one of the sand snakes...
That's just not the same character anymore.
SuBvERtInG eXpECTaTiONs
But for real, we could have had transparent clothes sand snakes, that's the real tragedy here
In the books, Aero Hotah is a badass fighter who is literally married to his staff weapon.
He beheads a King's Guard casually in what can't even be called combat, in that Hotah was so OP. Then he corrals the sand snakes as if they were malnourished kittens.
@@jorgeporras9262 Siddig could've been great.
Eric Wolfe Too be fair ser Aerys oakhart also took a dozen arrows charging at them, by the time he got to Hotah he was in no condition to fight. But It wouldn’t have mattered, no doubt hotah would have tore him a new asshole even if he was at full strength.
@@jorgeporras9262 on a side note I didn't even realise she is Asian. Hahaha
Sand Snakes: Our story is awful.
Season 8: Hold my lipstick poison.
Season 8 may suck, but at least by that point the writers were definitively beyond what GRRM wrote and therefore had to come up with something on their own. Season 5 doesn't even have that bad excuse. GRRM had written a great storyline, with cool memorable characters. They could have stuck to the books. They could have cut the whole Dorne plot. Instead, they made a *choice* to tell an entirely different and deeply crapulent story instead.
Bonus suck points to D&D because the Dorne characters were so brilliantly cast. Pedro Pascal was epic. Ditto Indira Varma (possibly one of the most beautiful actresses in TV history, on top of her great acting ability). Quinn already sang Alexander Siddig's praises, so I don't have to (Siddig deserves the accolades). I've seen Jessica Henwick in other shows and she's very, very good as well. How the fuck do you go so badly wrong with such great source material and such great performers? Answer: ignore the source material and write drivel that even the performance can't rescue.
The same thing happened to Emilia Clarke, sure, but at least they gave her some brilliant book-powered seasons. Dorne got nothing but shat upon, when all they had to do was either follow the books or ignore the plot altogether.
@@theprogram863, exactly. Season 8 was the equivalent of having a test but not studying at all although you had a bad teacher and you just wrote whatever you want in the test even it it made no sense but Season 5 was the equivalent of having a test where you’re allowed to use whatever resources you want to help and you still failed. Embarrassing.
This aged well, you got so much hate for this video on reddit back in the day, Now everyone is jumping on the show is terrible bandwagon
Because it's terrible. Not all of us have to 'jump on a bandwagon' to come to our own conclusions.
@@ploppyploppy that's of course entirely true, but there's definitely a bandwagon going on - which of course doesn't mean that it isn't grounded in justifiable logic. Very broad and fundamental flaws of writing that the show has started to suffer from more and more made the public more and more receptive to criticism directed at their beloved garbage - and from that it's only a few tiny steps to rioting masses. After all, it's so much more comfortable and easier to be part of the lynch mob than the lonely last stand trying to fight it off. Basic social dynamics.
Ploppy Ploppy Well, not for nothing but that kind of goes without needing to say... He didn’t put anyone down or say people weren’t capable of an educated opinion outside of the proverbial bandwagon. No need to inject venom here...
Well the show wasn’t terrible then. Yes this Dorne plot line was the writing on the wall, and it was awful, but the show as a whole was still strong.
emu Not how a bandwagon works, my guy. You can’t say it’s the logical position to take on one hand then on the other say it’s a bandwagon. What you’re saying basically amounts to some hipster in a coffee shop saying “I was doing ______ before it was cool”
they really disgraced Hotah too. GRRM built him up to be a super bad ass warrior and this little girl just snuck up behind him and killed him?
MrSnickster also like she could really stab through that giants beast's armor and muscle with that tiny dagger!? 😵 Honestly... Areo is a badass!!
Really fast poison? Haha, No I agree that death was bullshit.
Sounds like one of my D&D campaigns lol
Yeah that sit was so disappointing
"I hope you remember how to use that axe."- they even had the audacity to tease us with this line.
the show turned all of GRRM'S layered, complex and strong female characters into one-dimensional speech ranters who always get raped in the name of character development
Wow you are so right
Glad someone else noticed.
*loud applause* GOD you are so correct here, it hurts.
@Ashish Agrawal Until D&D blew them up...
This was one of the few times I actually sided with Cersei when she killed off the Sandsnakes. Cersei didn't murder Oberyn; he got killed because he was careless. They didn't need to kill Cersei's daughter, either - she was innocent. The Sandsnakes never once struck me as "good guys" or even sympathetic. They came across as a pack of psychopathic murderesses who were perfectly okay with killing innocents as long as it suited their agenda. So if anything, their grim fate only seemed like karma.
Their end never bothered me because they were so horribly written from the beginning. In the books, NONE of those characters bear any resemblance to what HBO gave us.
They wanted to avenge their family members, so they murdered two of their own family and an innocent child. Even in when confronted about this they say all Lannisters are evil towards a Lannister who is allied with them. In the name of Guilty Gear 2020 THAT IS BULLSHIT!!!
The gag is thats the OPPOSITE of how we were SUPPOSED to perceive them. 😭😭😭😂😂😂 Hince why Tyene aka comes off as a mamas girl and Nymeria and Obara were like 2 jealous sisters. Hince their goofy banter together. Its like a double edged sword though and very counter productive. THAT was the problem coming off as teenage girls, who JUST so happened to psychopaths.... AND THATS where the disconnect happens because there's a whole war going on and y'all pretty much spit on your fathers ideals but y'all are trying to "avenge" him.. Literally Destroying your own house. Of the 3 tho Tyene was the only one where you can see a hint of Oberyn hince the haircut, how she speaks with a subtlety of grace and allure, and plus his sexual mannerisms but that was it. Tyenes actress was the only one to SELL US A BELIEVEABLE role. Cause even tho a lot of us loved her (speaking for us that do) Her following her mother blindly made her stupid cause we all saw the POTENTIAL ROLE for her character with Bronn and how she was capable of humility to some degree..... She was the one we all EXPECTED to call her mother out on Oberyns memory "That we dont hurt girls in Dorne". AT THE TIME SHE SEEMED LIKE THE ONLY ONE WORTH A DAMN. Even if you hate the sand snakes you gotta admit Tyene is prolly the one you hate the least. LMAO But I digress it sucks to suck, their plot ruined any potential they might have had. They will always be known for having the worst portrayal of any characters on the show... Which is a huge fanbase for real. 👀👀👀💀💀💀😬😬 In the books Obara was supposed to be the best Warrior of the group and Oberyns eldest.... Tyene was a poisons expert and was a master manipulater aka (Innocent looking, but deceptively conniving. WHICH IS WHY I SAY THE ACTRESS was good just stupid ass writing) Nymeria aka Lady Nym is a combination of the other 2 a great warrior and Elite battle strategist. NYMERIA IS THE ONE I WAS MOST EXCITED ABOUT MANNNNNNN My 10 paper is over tho.. But yeah WASTED POTENTIAL ALL ACROSS THE BOARD
I didnt care about myrcella. Plenty of innocent people died becuse of her family and cersei. Too bad
As a woman, I am extremely pissed off about the TV adaptation of the Dornish women.
Ellaria was good and kindhearted, arguing against war and vengeance and denouncing it as a vicious cycle. She loves Oberyn and her daughters, and bears no malice for Myrcella.
Obara, Nymeria and Tyene may be out for blood, but when they heard about the plot to kill ten year old Trystane, they were rendered speechless that anyone would think to involve a child in the war.
Doran Martell became one of my favorite characters during books 4 and 5. What the show did to him was just criminal. The show insinuates an indifference on his part to Oberyn, but in the book it clearly states that he worked with his brother, paraphrasing his words -
Oberyn was the snake that hunted and bit their enemies, and he was the gentle grass that hid the snake. Such a shame, it really is.
god when i think about how they got alexander siddig, a fan favorite fancast before dorne was introduced, on the show but then they did that to dorne....... d&d are terrorists me thinks
"It can‘t get any worse"
D&D: Challenge accepted!!
Bruce Wayne wouldn’t really pin this on feminism. Looks like more sheer incompetence and arrogance.
Klausbärbel Fömm nice witty come back. Feminism is obnoxious but it’s not synonymous with arrogance or incompetence in story telling.
Klausbärbel Fömm Klausbärbel Fömm ....that’s not what your comment meant? I said I would not blame the poor quality of the show on feminism, but incompetence and arrogance. And in return you sarcastically said you would not blame it on darkness but sheer lack of light.
How should that exchange be interpreted? I’m too dumb to figure it out without inadvertently constructing a straw man. Please explain what you meant for my dumbass.
@@daveyjoneslocker4703 Don't even bother with that guy. He's quite clearly the type brainwashed into thinking things are as simple as left and right, with nothing in between, and arguments being about winning to validate your views and not reasoning.
@@daveyjoneslocker4703 Yeah, I wouldn't bother with the other guy.
People might disagree with me, but I always felt the Arya and the faceless ones plotline was just as bad in the show!
She's such a fanservice character . Her training didn't have enough time to flesh out nor translated well on screen . It felt like she failed but was awarded the first prize anyway .Now they try too hard to make her seem cool and act smug all the time because strong whamen ! Fuck these stupid adults underestimating this little girl . We need a reminder every season for some reason that she's a badass assassin woman .
Direcode Vincent So what you're saying is women should be represented as the victims in the shows?
If a man is represented as strong and cool, does that mean, they are trying to push us these idea of how men are strong and badass?
What you're saying could go both ways, anyway Arya is the most likeable female character imo, because she was never sexualized, and presented as a victim.
Why don't you comment why every other girl was sexualized in some way, and presented as a victim? You don't get bothered by that image of women?
She is not following the classic lifestyle of other women, and you are angry?
Honestly aren't you tired of those other portrayals?
If you don't like what they did with her storyline, that's fine, but why the hell would you be angry because she is not presented as a victim?
Azra Basic God you are dense.
Super Mega SS 88 Ultra Rightwing Purity Death Squad
God doesn't exist and can you elaborate please, if you think otherwise you could try and communicate and not insult people :D
@@azrabasic5605
These people don't know how to react to strong female characters.
It's one thing to dislike the dorne plotline, as it was botched, but to simply dislike Arya for being smug is just ignorant.
Jaime is smug, but is that alright? Tyrion was always smug, even with his size.. is that alright?
Tywin, Mance, Hound, .. I mean the list goes on for arrogant male characters, but all of a sudden it's not earned or it's too much to see Arya do the same.
Weak little boys like them don't even understand women to begin with. Stuck in their heads.
“If you hate it so much stop talking about it”
Translation:
“Oi! You got a license for that opinion mate?”
OI
Random Lad oopsie!!!
My Comment Licence allows me to reply to this
loiscence*
"The plot went south as soon as they strayed away from the book" .... seems to be a theme with most (all?) of the complaints about the show
Its not wrong
I don't get why people are so bothered about it. Of course, GRRM's writing is going to be a lot better. He spends years on this shit and it's his universe etc. etc. What do they want to happen? Cancel the show because GRRM is taking his sweet time with the books?
GoT is still an enjoyable show to watch with the quality production values even if the writing is not what it was.
Chocolatier: The problem isn't just that they aren't as good as GRRM; it's that they're utterly terrible by any standard. They didn't just not write it quite as well. They wrote it dismally. They massacred it. They replaced intelligent, in-depth writing and complex characters with silly fan service and one-dimensional characters that don't have any brains in their heads. They constantly break the rules of their own world and do things that make no sense at all. Most of the time they face no consequences, and when they do it's not because the consequences make sense in-universe but because the writers decided it was time for them to die for no good reason and in a stupid way. So Arya survives multiple stabs in the gut, swims through a river containing human shit, runs halfway around a city and survives, while Roose Bolton and Areo Hotah (the latter of which is a skilled warrior) are taken down in an instant by quick brief single stabs. I could go on all day. So it's not just that they aren't as good as George. It's that they're BAD. The show is all about flashy spectacle now with nothing in between that makes a damn bit of sense.
@@kawadashogo8258 shhhh.....you're making too much sense
@@kawadashogo8258 I don't disagree, but without the source material they have had a hell of an uphill battle. They get what 3 months to write a script before they have to start filming? This is a massive, complex world which they don't even have complete freedom with. I'm sure they're just doing their best to hit major story beats set out by GRRM.
At the end of the day, the books will still come and they should deliver well thought out storylines and character developments. So as far as I'm concerned it's win win. If the story was going to be exactly the same in the books there wouldn't be much reason to read or be hyped about them after the show ends.
I'm offended at the portrayal of the Sand Snakes, the show turned them into screeching harpies.
Idiotic monologues and bullshit included. They were pointless characters. It made me so happy when Olenna knocked them down
Truly, the only thing worse than the absolute cringeworthy butchering of Loras Tyrell into some dumb gay stereotype screwing guys in brothels.
For those wondering, he is gay in the books, but he was in love with Renly. As in, no, he wasn't frolicking in brothels. When Jaime Lannister asks him why a 17 year old would want to agree to celibacy (Kingsguard are supposed to be celibate), Loras says, "When the sun has set, no candle can replace it." As in he loved Renly so much that he doesn't ever want to love again.
The absolute last thing we need is for women to be portrayed as slutty jealous harpies and gay men being portrayed as useless horny idiots.
I don't get how Elaria gets control of Dorne when she isn't even highborn and why no one in Dorne tried to even question why she killed the Prince of Dorne
@@wadewillson1812 Also, where did that other Dornish Prince appear from during the final episode? Lol.
Just FYI, feminism would not be about having strong female characters. It is about having complex and varied female characters.
Including stupid, weak, smart, strong, butch, femenine, old, young, slutty, prude, etc etc.
And yes, the books do that.
Well, that would be egalitarian, but that is clearly not what modern feminism is about.
@@ardaricus1566 I agree on both affirmations.
I do think that "true" feminism had a lot of egalitarian concepts.
I like strong female protagonists the same way I like strong male protagonists. I like that they don't suck. Feminism was a great movement with the suffragettes and everything but now it's like "I don't want guys to sit spread eagle in the bus, meh meh meh!"
@@androkguz feminism is about woman getting rights for themselves, egalitarian is about equal rights for all. Feminism isn't needed in the west.
the idea that this is some kind of "neofeminism" just isn't accurate, though. like, one, these characters are villains. two, most feminists are pretty critical of how simplified the dornish women were.
The only thing I like about Dorne in got is the yellow outfits. Idk why they just look pretty cool.
I mean, compared to the blacks or greys for the rest of the series costumes, it was a nice change.
Gave it a real Arabian feel, really gave he immersion of being in a different land, when in reality it was a sand dune in Ireland I believe 🤔
Wanderingwalker 1990 Dorne was mostly shot in Spain I think.
I like the tits
@@Wanderingwalker-ke6mg it was in southern Spain :) Warergardens are mostly the Alcazar de Sevilla, the dunes where they land should be Cota de Doñana
Yeah, Sand Snake of the show were a shitshow. It was genuinely the worst writing of the show.
zack fritz
A real betrayal of the actresses (who took their roles seriously) by the writers.
They did manage to get people to like Euron though haha.
Well, season 7 was also awful.
ThatOneDudeWhoIsn'tInTheSameRoomAsYou how they got Eddie Izzard to play Euron Greyjoy I'll never know ?!%
Rob Eerto, That's awesome. My friend described him as "Captain Jack Sparrow, but gayer." and I about died.
The "Sand Snakes" are like cartoon characters. The description of "you look like an angry little boy" was quite fitting. They're the only women that wear the same clothes every day. And they all have their cute little weapon--like a comic book super power.
Blossom... Buttercup! Bubbles!
Well... Comic-Book Characters can actually be interesting and relatable characters like the Sand Snakes in the books.
They have so little individual characterisation that they need to give them distinct personal weapons in order that people can tell them apart! Oh, that's the whip girl, that's the spear girl etc.
I am not impressed with season 8 so far.
With out Martin’s writing it’s totally changed the series
It has become an average hollywood fantasy. Thick plot armors and extremely bad writing...Night King was thrown down the drain after 8 seasons of developing him for something epic
@@karlsson408 I know, it saddens me. I wanted the night king to die sure, but not in one poorly written episode.
@@karlsson408 prince that was promised was shat on as well, and then you have the whole "but millisandre said she would kill people with blue eyes before, FORSHODOWING!"... people who dont remember that scene very well, she serves the one she thinks will defeat the nights king, or his army, if arya was going to kill him and she saw it, she would know that Stannis was not who she thought he was.
Well Martin did give the show writers the ending of the series in advanced. This included how the night king died. Essentially he gave them the end of the series, since he had bad writers block. He told them them who died when and by whom. Major plot points where given as well as some of what he had already written. The writers just filled in the gaps.
Hell yeah.
You know your "adapatation" of a Song of Ice and Fire is BS when Euron Greyjoy is a better human being then Ellaria Sand.
Good grief, this is just too true.
This is more accurate than Euron's ballistas.
Euron was suppose to be an amazing villain, he is actually the biggest threat to Dany's dragons in the book
@@zikrim1227 *DRAGONBINDER!!*
Oh, how I wish that instead of Daenerys just suddenly deciding to burn down everyone, it was Euron blowing that Horn and forcing Drogon to burn King's Landing, as his final act of vengeance for losing his Iron Fleet.
Speaking of horns, now that I think about it, wouldn't it be great if instead of the whole _"bring a Wight to Cersei"_ plot, they instead made witness the Night King carrying a weird horn, researched deep about it, found out more about the Horn of Winter and then the whole mission was to steal the Horn so the Army of the Dead wouldn't bring down the Wall?
I think that would've made more sense, and capturing a Wight alive to bring as proof... well, I dunno if that would've even be necessary.
I got that .... I thought WTF ... they just murdered the ruler of dawn and the guards were like ... whatever..
I understood that he was hated by his own people and even guards because he was a useless prick, but that's just lazy character design and way less interesting than the Doran Martell from the book.
Dawn
Dorne
and like Dorne has a bunch of small kingdoms how they would react? why the fuck would they all give their boats and armies to Oberyn martell concubine?? makes 0 sense whatsoever
Yeah any random Dornish noble of actual noble birth would get the title before a concubine and her bastard daughters. In reality killing the Martells would never have happened. If anything they should have left Tristane alive and controlled him. Killing Doran MAYBE would happen but they would need a LEGITIMATE replacement.
Even my family and friends (who have never read the books) told me they thought Dorne felt out of place, boring, and “cheesy.”
The only thing they kinda did was getting people to like Euron Greyjoy. If only for killing two of them.
You don't have to read the books to dislike the Dorne storyline. It sucks from a cinematographic point of view too. Clichéd one-dimensional characters, nonsensical plot and bad fight scenes. Even the dialogue lost the GoT edge. Who would compare Tywin's lectures to his children to the "bad pussy"?
Lathan - Kyle Your face is boring and cheesy
I cringe, every time I here that cheesy line: "You need a bad Puuusy!" WTF, Did D & D decide to have a 12 year old in puberty write that line for them? After the great dialogue in the first few seasons, we started getting S**t like this!!
Lathan - Kyle I think the thing that really hammered that feeling home is we saw nothing of dorne except there's a beach and a nice palace full of just guards and the characters that have their scenes. When the sand snakes are like "the people despise you" it comes off contrived because it's like what people? They hate him? How do we know that? Are the people actually with the sand snakes because I haven't see a single person
Dorne: we are the worst storyline in Game of Thrones
The Long Night: *STAY RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE!*
It’s because Dumb and Dumber can’t write. The only reason the show became beloved was because of GRRM”s books!
"I hate everything about the Dorne plot in the television show" *liked before watching.*
I was reading through the comments looking for these exact words.
"Strong" is such a misleading descriptor for good characterization, especially regarding females. Audiences should be pushing for complex, nuanced and well-written female characters, since apparently half the writers in the industry seem to think "strong" entails only physical strength and conventionally (even superficially) masculine traits, when women like Catelyn and Cersei (and even some male characters like Bran and Tyrion) can prove to be exceptional characters in spite of having no great physical prowess.
NeonFirefly
Use of the term "strong female character" (unless ironic) is a signifier of bullshit.
THIS. D&D cannot fathom that women can be strong in other ways than by resorting to violence (and/or chopping off their hair -__- HELLOOO CLICHÉ). Sansa, Margaery, (young) Olenna all learnt to manipulate people while pretending they were nothing more than pretty quiet sweet little things. One of the major problems Cersei faces is that she believes the only valid way to be powerful is by terrorising people, while reality proves her otherwise. And don't get me started on the whole "Sansa becomes badass AFTER being raped" misogynistic BS. Arya is a TRAUMATISED young survivor but D&D turned her into a fucking superhero/supervillain. Ugh, I stopped watching GoT after S5 E2, because I realised that Dumb&Dumber were going to turn that once wonderful show into utter rubbish AND I WAS RIGHT.
Teresa Rivas Ugaz
Yes. Poor Cercei has no idea how to rule. As far as I remember though her hair was cut by the Sparrows as an assault on her femininity and she has worn it short ever since as a kind of fuck - you gesture.
Hah Sparrows. Cut Cercei's hair and you will pay.
But at least Bran HAD a kind of physical prowess, if you recall, in that he was a master climber (though he sucked at archery)….Tyrion is no slouch on the battlefield, either......
Dorne: The Storyline That Ruined Game of Thrones
S08E03: Hold my beer!
The show has really been shit since the end of season 4
I'll still finish it tho js lol
S8:ALL EPISODES
@@youshouldsuicide Not completely shit, but the quality indeed really dropped then. Characters got far less interesting, certain storylines as well, but it still on average was quite good at first.
Season 7 was disappointing. Season 8........okay I'm typing blind here now because somehow my fist ended up through my screen when I thought of season 8.
S8E05: Hold my whiskey!
You know what your problem is...
You want a good girl, but you need the bad poosey
🤣🤣🤣
It’s so sad that Dorne will probably not be featured anymore like... they all dead? What’s happening to Dorne now? The same as The Reach since all Tyrells kinda died too
This is the problem. It's why people are livid with the show. The Reach and Dorne wiped out in like 3 episodes or something.
It wouldn't work like that.
There were loads of Tyrells left in the books. Margaery offered to marry Sansa off to one of them. Speaking of which, wtf did they do to Loras? The Knight of Flowers was seasoned in battle, virtually invincible in a tourney, but yes, he was quite camp, but they turned him into a stereotypical limp-wristed nancyboy.
Also, what did they do to the Tarlys? How come Randyll didn't hunt Sam down for stealing Heartsbane?
Furthermore, as fucked up as he is, the Randyll Tarly we know would never have sided with Cersei. She took over the Iron Throne by nuking the Grand Sept of Baelor, wiping out Randyll's liege lord and his family and causing the king's death. This is supposed to be the Randyll Tarly who fought on the Targaryen side during Robert's Rebellion, now siding against the last Targaryen in favor of a backstabbing genocidal kinslaying deicidal woman (he's also sexist as fuck) whose claim to the throne is only based on being the Usurper's wife and the mother of "his" kids.
D&D realized they fucked up big time, but in their true nature of not having the slightest idea how to deal with the fallout, they decided to swiftly erase Dorne from existence. Can't hurt your ratings if it doesn't exist anymore :'D
Probably the best decision they ever made though because I bet you all my money they could have made it even worse before fixing that mess of a plotline. I also bet they had no idea what to do with the Tarly's once they exhasusted their use in fighting the Tyrells so they thought "might as well" and Dracarys it was.
This makes S7's Tyrion even lamer. He knows Cersei's kids are not Robert's. He should have been using that and the genocide against her. I remember the utter lack of happy faces in Cersei's coronation. It's likely that most members of the court had family or friends in the Grand Sept when it blew up. It's like they'd all forgotten.
This is actually why I stopped watching Game of Thrones. Not only did killing Durin and Tristan not make any sense but they were cracking jokes after they did it. I never understood why after season four they decided to pump the gas pedal on the story. They skipped over a lot of story and then in later seasons had to backpedal because they realize they ran out especially when they started using sample chapters of the next book that’s not even out. I mean season five should’ve had the Arianne and Quinton’s storylines explored. I mean how bad ass would the season finale be with Durin Martell whispering into Arianne’s ear “fire and blood”? Roll credits. That would have been awesome! Instead we get a story that went completely off the rails.
Probably because they knew, by that point, that HBO wasn't going to give them twenty seasons of television to be able to tell every facet of the book. They had to ramp things up in order to make the series work as is. A secret Dorne conspiracy with Durin's daughter and the Sand Snakes would have been a shit-show because of lack of screen-time to pull it off.
HMMaster
At that time they thought they might only get seven seasons instead of eight because the salary negotiations for the actors were proving tricky
D&D actually wanted to scrap Dorne altogether alongside Young Griff but another show writer named Brian Cogman convinced them to go through with it because of the popularity of Oberyn. Also a couple of those scenes had terrible choreography because they didn't have enough time to record in the palace so they had to rush it. Although I'm not saying these are excuses for why Dorne was terrible I'm just clarifying it.
You kidding me right? You stop watching the show?! Haha no one believes that...everybody in the entire universe (including aliens) watched Queen Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen burning the Lannister army, even my grandmother was screaming!
Francisco Nava Why? Dan and Dave have turned Dany into another neo-Feminazi caricature.
Without having read the books at the time, my problem with the Dorne plot was that the Sand Snakes and Ellaria decided that the best way to avenge Oberyn was to betray and destroy everything he stood for and kill the people he loved
The problem with this storyline wasn't the amount or type of feminism, it was just bad writing.
Preach!!! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 I wish everyone who wants to blames feminism/diversity would realize that the problem is that Hollywood is exploiting it as the new lazy remake trend, not feminism/diversity.
@@phoenixrising7777 yesss! Feminism isn't the problem, it's the bad writing!
I thought the problem was that the "feminism" was the fake cookie-seeking kind that Hollywood types love to throw out when they get called out on their entrenched misogyny. Not surprised this nonsense appeared in S5.
@@juanita-dark Agree. It was a straw-feminist plot
@@crazyweirdgirl115 Yes, as if one has to become a vicious murderer of one's brother-in-law, his teenaged son (who have always treated you like family) as well as an innocent girl, to be a badass feminist.
The greatest failure of this show is that they speed through the source material, and dont explore this world to its fullest. The Dorne line is the most obvious example.
At least part of that is that...it seems clear the showrunners want the show to be over already and are ready to move on. Probably a substantial number of the cast as well. It why this might have worked better (though would have been nowhere near the financial success) as a animated series where changes behind the scenes would be less noticeable.
If you think the show is bad about that wait till you see the movies starting in 2021...
An hour TV show with over two dozen main characters
Why? She was in it for about five pages. Expendable character as she changed nothing.
" I commend him for brutally murdering these women" - IdeasOfIceAndFire 2018
lol
In that way the writers and show are endlessly more misogynistic than people criticizing them. Think about it, they introduced these terrible female characters, let their terrible plot run rampant across the scene and ruin great threads for the future, all so that we could cheer-fucking cheer-when the PEDOPHILE PIRATE BUTCHERS THEM...How in the hell is anything about their portrayal feminist?
Also, side note, liked this video a lot until the end when he started whining about being a "real nerd". I was bullied through most of school for being nerdy but fucking gatekeeping needs to stop. Quit being cunts to people getting into nerdy stuff, you'll ostracize them and then the cycle of treating nerds like crap begins anew.
Search "Euron greyjoy Ultimate alpha edition" here on UA-cam
Maso Perez you could say the same for the whole feminist movement, promoting slut walks, promoting unrestrained and outright disgusting behavior, shielding women from real world consequences, and treating adult women with kiddie gloves as if they were mentally impaired.
Maso Perez He only said that real nerds get invested in their interests. That's the most base level requirement possible to be a nerd. I think that's fair.
Thank the Gods for CONTEXT ;)
With all these videos, you've literally talked me into reading the books.
THANK YOU.
I didnt even remember about all of this stuff anymore, that's how it shows you how trash it is
I'll never forgive game of thrones for taking strong female characters of color that lived in a land of equality that appreciated and respected them and just twisted it, David and Dan ruined everything. George writes female characters fairly, they can be monstrous or kind , smart or dumb, they get to be varied and nuanced, the same as the male characters. But david and dan wouldnt know nuance if it bit them in the ass!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAH SAFE SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They aren't "of color" you twit. And why the fuck would that matter anyway? Is it a good story or not? How frickin shallow are you? How's it different from judging a woman solely on her looks?
What do you mean they're not "of colour"? Oberyn's bastards certainly can be considered of colour in some cases because he had them with lots of women who were a range of races other than white. That's what "person of colour" means. Plus the Dornish population isn't supposed to be white either lmao so people from Dorne are people of colour too?
Lara Faye one is half summer islander. Read the books moron.
People from the summer islands are black. That's of colour. Read the books, moron.
The biggest problem with the show is the show runners are tired of making it and you can tell how evident it is in the dorn plot line
they should have given the show to someone else after they got bored with it
@@m.a.4500 artistic integrity. hard to understand for most people, but it's still a thing.
The actors too. Kit seems to be the only one still giving a shit.
How can one be so unthankful for the content that literally gave them a career?!?
I have zero respect for all the ones involved that clearly gave up
@@squattingheads i don't know about that, but D&D definetly deserve the blame since they are the ones hogging all the credit. i would propably phone it in too if the material given is so terrible
squattingheads i wouldn’t say that. i think they’re all just equally annoyed with D&D. even Maisie got irritated with the carelessness to detail with her “stabbed and running through the streets of braavos” storyline. she’s the only reason that whole scene had a semblance of reality to it because the show runners just wanted her to superman her way through the city acting unaffected when she had stab wounds. i think that’s where the show is going downhill. they’re making so many characters untouchable and dumbing down others and making storylines that could’ve been really cool if they got fleshed out really stupid and bland because they’re sick of continuing the show. even GRRM has said the story could last seasons and seasons but he made a whole other world! none of them want to spend the next decade bringing it all to life so they’re cutting a lot of corners.
Compared to the final season, this was a masterpiece :)
Season 5 as a whole was. But the Dorne plot? Nah. The final season at least still had good acting & visual effects, neither of which the Sand Snake arc had.
Nah, it's still shit, no matter how bad S7 and 8 were. Nothing really excuses it.
The dorne plotline was honestly s8 bad
I'd say the Dorne plot in season 5 is as bad as Daenerys', Bran's, Jamie's, and Jon's in season 8. The difference is the former was about 10% of the content while the rest was mostly good, and the later was like 75% of the content
Season 5 was by far the worst season 5/10 overall, the whole Dorne 'story' was horrible. I'm glad they picked the show up afterwards but they never managed to get back to what the show was up until Season 4.
The only good thing that came out of the nonsensical Elaria Sand revenge plot was that amazing scene between her and Cersei in the dungeon, but that's mainly due to the strength of the actresses.
In that dungeon scene, her looking at her daughter and straining after she was poisoned was extremely cringey.
good scene ? Some monolog bla bla bla boooo Cersei didint even ask her what dany's plans are
Is Elaira still alive? No one even talks about helping her! Is she dead?
Niedziwedz Polarny yes because Cersei would be thinking logically and asking about Dany’s plan after capturing the women responsible for he daughters death. As vindictive as Cersei what about her makes you think she’d be thinking about anything other than revenge
Nah, Cersei's not needed redemptions 😒
The failure to fully capture the Dorne plotline should have been seen when it first appeared on the Credits Map, when the astrolabe settled on Sunspeare but just called it "Dorne." Thats like calling Winterfell "The North." Dorne is a region, Sunspeare is a castle.
By the way, in the books Doran was plotting the same thing as the sand snakes came to do in the shows, so killing Doran here just to do the same thing and ally themselves with Daenerys is stupid.
Also i hate how the Lannister just "destroyed" the Reacht because "we do not know how to fight". The Tyrell had not only the most rich territory in the seven kigdoms (due to a large grain reagion), but also the largest population and the largest army! according to the books while the Lannisters could muster a force of about 40.000 the Tyrell had a force of 80-100.000! their knights where also among the best of all the seven kingdoms mostly due to their huge flat terrain and chivalry, it makes no sense that they just lost because "we do not know how to fight".
And they could just cut the supply of food to King's Landing. Y'know, like they did in season 2?
my favorite part of this season is Jamie CONSTANTLY getting into swordfights and not dying. yeah i know hes training left handed with bronn but lets be honest Jamie's REPUTATION is what keeps him from actually having to get into fights with other swordsman because if he did he'd be fucking dead.
period.
Totally agree with you on the Dornish storyline in the show. I would say though there a several storylines which ruined the show in similar ways. Littlefingers complete loss of brain cells, Arya's transformation into a regenerating super human, Jon Snow's and Stannis change of character which make them incompetent leaders, unable to make sound strategical decisions and well so many more smaller stuff they put in, since leaving book territory....
Yes exactly! God Stannis is worthless in the show, and so is the whole Dorne storyline. Made me so mad I had to reread the books after season 7 just to wash the cringe off.
Frosty1979 that's why I prefer seasons 1-4 the storylines surrounding the War of the Five Kings was top notch
At least D&D gave a bit of fan-service when Lady Olenna told the Sand Worms to STFU and let the "real women" talk.
Or when "Mr. Big Cock" Euron Greyjoy fucked them all up.
The show has been nothing but "fan service" since GRRM walked away. One of the main reasons everything after season 4 sucked
@@kenmann4074 season 6 was fantastic, Jon Snow definitely carried it! They had a bigger budget and definitely had to put some impressive scenes in. Season 7 was good but they just rush through it all. Honestly I take the show as a visual sparknotes of the books haha
lmfao...this past season was all "fan-service". They don't even care about writing anything good anymore. Just giving fan service to the idiotic show fans.
that was cringeworthy trash too.
only Euron redeemed this whole plotline.
They did not need to rush the series given its massive popularity and Dorne would have been perfect to be truer to the books
They rushed it becuz D&D aren't passionate about it anymore. To be honest I'm sure they were done with it after the red wedding, that's all they really cared about.
@@Deborah5000 yeah I felt that too.
@@Deborah5000 indeed. What a shame.
GRRM used death and tragedy intelligently, told good stories, and developed interesting characters. This made people react emotionally, because he was telling stories we thought could be true. Stories that made sense in the world he constructed for us.
D&D saw this and in their infinite wisdom noticed that death = fan reactions in the media. So they started randomly inserting death and tragedy to get people to react. But the stories make no sense, the characters don't do what we imagine they would do, and the world is just a disjointed series of events, with characters teleporting to and fro as the 'plot' wills it.
It's like that botched restoration of the Jesus fresco in Spain, now known as the "Monkey Christ". I'm sure D&D had good intentions, nobody wants to write a shit show. They're just too incompetent to fill in the gaps the original artist left behind.
Edit: I just reached the end of the video, we made the same metaphor! Nice.
I'm starting to wonder if Martin has already finished writing the books but is playing dumb until the tv show ends so they don't take whatever new bits he wrote and butcher it as they did with so much of the rest. Of course, that would be illegal, since he sold the rights to the story for HBO, but if he pretends the book is nowhere near being finished...
Nah. Rather unlikely. But it certainly wouldn't surprise me.
No, he didn't sell the story rights, he sold the adaption rights to HBO. That's a key difference. If he sold the story rights to HBO, that would mean that HBO has the rights to write the next book however they want without Martin.
I believe that George is purposefully re-writing the ending as he originally imagined it, because he wants to have an original ending to his story, which wasn't already spoilered in this dumbed down way by the show.
Lulu Matthewiosi I hope you are right. When you look at the setup at the end of Dance with dragons, its got so much more going on that is going to play some role in the end.
My prediction is that Littlefinger does not die in the books.
@@glennross85 He is dying but in no way, shape, manner, for form as he does in the books. And only after he has risen much further and made himself a real player for the Iron Throne. Right at this height of power, he will suddenly and surprisingly fall in a very clever plot.
@@mrssalina You cannot say that for certain...
Jon calling her Dany ruined season 7 thats for sure, terrible writing! how would he even know or think to call her that!
Why does he even fall in love with her?
Because she wants to save the world?
Then by that logic everyone should fall in love with her,
Tormund, Davos, Sandor, Beric, Gendry and whoever the fuck was there. That's not how people love someone, do they?. They didn't spend anytime together talking ahout their personal lives, they just argued like bitches and became so annoying.
@@arhamsaa They fell in love because the writers knew the mindless fans that watch the show in bars and who don't really have much of an idea of what is going on would love it. Typical fan service haha Season 7 was a joke.
@@jakeeck I saw people going crazy in joy over their sex scene.
World is full of dumbfucks.
@@jakeeck even their sex didn't make any sense.
They just started to feel for each other and just after that "Let's have Sex", what the fuck?
Even Tyrion's relationship with her was closer than Jon's ever was, still nothing happens between them, when she was naming him "the hand" that scene was so emotional, it looked like she was going to kiss him or something. Jon didn't even reach that level and the writers made them have sex after 2 good lines.
Mindfucking Writing at it's best.
Syed Arham Ali 8bp because she’s beautiful duh
I worry for this guy's health atm during season 8
I just discovered your channel and I want to thank you for saving my sanity. I've been suffering through hagiographic readings of this show from friends and critics and made to feel like a a-hole for criticising it. But the writers are butchering it! I haven't even read the books but I can still get angry perhaps because I can see the lost potential and the bad story-lines and characters are infuriating in themselves. Keep doing what you're doing man.
On the show, the Sand Snakes are caricatures of strong women. I hated that plotline.
OMG thank you for not apologizing for being a book reader. If the showrunners had adapted it properly they'd have had enough material for 10 seasons. Such a waste of potential. I hope we get a movie series one day. ..
Because a movie, or even 3 3h long movie would make more justice to Martin's Game of Throne than a more than seven season tv show ?
No. I want an Anime series that takes its time with all of the stories and characters. We could have hundreds of episodes.
That really wouldnt work out. The series is pretty darn good they just fucked up some minor things and Dorne, which is a shame. Why would you want hundreds of episodes, when the first four seasons told the story so damn well. it just failed because there Martin takes too much time to finish the books. And it is no wonder D&D are not able to fill in teh blanks properly because only Martin could do it in this universe.
GoT may have not the level it had before season 5 but it is still pretty good.
But I can understand that they kind of cut Dorne out of the plot because that would have way to much for the series. We would have like 10 seasons with the whole Dorne plot and I think it suits the series better when it is short. They just didnt execute it well
@@hapdf I meant to say a series of movies (I did edit my comment & thank you for pointing that out) . I imagine Dance with dragons and some later novels could even be split into two. Also I have to say, I feel like asoiaf deserves a movie budget. The show is the best looking thing on tv, but I still think a movie could do better.
Season 4 was the high point of the show (1-3 were also awesome). The plot threads that are resolved by then are amazing. The ones left open after 4 all went to shit.
The show tries too hard to make strong female leads out of strong female leads.
D&D don't understand what "strong female character" means. It literally just means a well developed, layered character.
You're not sexist. I've been listening to you for awhile; I agree with your opinions on the show. You're right. Dorne is the plotline that severed the show from the books, and it was painful.
KellieSand04
Yep. The real sexists are D&D for what they did to Ellaria and the sand snakes.
KellieSand04 I second this. There's nothing but admiration for book Daenerys, and they made her completely insufferable in the later seasons. It's not at all sexist to note these female characters are try hards.
ThotKilla Figures you're black.
I totally agree! Everyone interested in a feminist (and quite snarky) critique of GoT should check out www.thefandomentals.com or the related podcast (unabashed book snobbery). Their opinion of the Dorne plot is really similar to this video.
I agree, the video is the opposite of sexist! It's out of respect for the female characters that it's so disappointing to see how the show cheapened them.
I am feminist and I am horrified by how bad the Dorne plot was done. You are completely right, I agree with you.
So true who would ever think:All Right to avange the death of Oberyn lets kill his brother and his nephew I am sure he would be really glad about it.
ana iglesias isn't kinda redundant to be a feminist in a first world in this time?
yaqwsx cderfv No.
yaqwsx cderfv yes
If you’re a feminist then you’re actually an egalitarian. Which is the proper term for an equalist. It actually means more quality. Feminism implies only gender matters. Hence why the term intersectional feminism has to be born. Be egalitarian. If you have to add intersection, your cause wasn’t standing up for enough sections by definition
The worst thing about Dorne was how empty and lifeless they made it feel. Like seriously, can you give us a single scene of Jaime n Bronn going thru a Dornish street with extras in it? It'd make a bigger difference than u might think.
Haha seing this after season 8 ep 3. Youre like a prophet now bro...
Show watchers just took longer to realize D&D are shitty ass writers on their own
@@heyitsmira17 I never read the books and I didnt really like the show from season 5 onwards.
Isn't the dorne plot in the show more mysogenistic because they take away ellaria's (my favorite female characters, second with davos, stannis is my fave) greater intelligence and compassion than most men we meet who can't see the futility of war and the circle of revenge
Alan Pennie even so but not for some stupid reason like that, that isn't ellaria is Indira varma emoting (d&d fault not her)
Oberyn: “We don’t murder little children in Dorne!”
Elaria: “Let’s murder this little girl in Dorne!”
+Alan Pennie There has not been even a remote suggestion that Ellaria will kill anyone. She's a side character in the books. D&D gave her a huge part in the show because they're idiots stunt-casting the actors at the expense of the story and Indira Varma does really good angry parts.
Briandon Stark I'll agree with you
nathan smith like I said demolishing it was on d&d part not her
I also wondered how in the world these royal murders did not cause a citizens revolt in Dorne. Its is difficult to believe the people and his own guards would have hated a peaceful man like Doran enough to condone his killing.
TuliTheUnruly Also difficult to believe that the new Prince(ss) of Dorne hasn't marched an army to the Water Gardens to take their place as ruler of Dorne. Find it very hard to buy that they're happy with a group of bastards killing the rightful ruler, the last scion of House Martell, their own uncle nonetheless, and taking control of Dorne in an incredibly poorly thought out coup.
Kapitan Dupa
The most likely consequence would have been a civil war among the Dornish lords. If they wanted to write Dorne out of the show in a credible way they could have (say) Obara show up at Highgarden and report that such a war has broken out and Ellaria and her other children have been put to death as traitors and kinslayers
Your videos pushed me to buy all the books, now I'm about to start the reading, and I wanted to thank you for that.
You rock dude !
Tyrion: Never forget who you are for the world will surely not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it and it can never be used to hurt you
Quinn:...and before you call me a butthurt booknerd, i just want you to know that your'e right.
Tyrion: My work here is done.
Euron was a dumb character in the show, and while not giving us Victarion who is an awesome character who is going to be in the next book with his own chapters.
Victarion already has had chapters in both AFFC and ADWD........
And Euron was dumb in the show, absolutely. But Euron is fun to watch on the show, once you commit to the show. The Dorne and Sand Snakes....well....the only scenes I enjoyed were their 'tragic' deaths.
I mean, watch the Seabattle scene again and tell me that Euron wasn't fun to watch, hahaha. (Fun as in Fun, like putting a smile on your face fun)
Yeah I liked Victarion's story up to this point with all the scenes at sea with the red priest they rescue and the raids of other ships, and I figured that since his character clearly continues on in the upcoming books that HBO would've had to more highly consider him into their plans for the show. I did like Euron's character in the books, though there hasn't been much with him so far, and was very disappointed with how HBO portrayed the kingsmoot/queensmoot, especially without Victarion and the fact that Euron so openly admits to killing his brother and the people so quickly accepting him as their king very shortly after that.
Game Detective ahahah exactly, at least Euron was Hilarious. "Ohhhh The love of the people, nothing quite like it" Sand snakes were just cringe. Also Victarion is easily the funniest POV to read. His chapters in ADWD are actually LOL funny
Like when he chooses the 5 best looking girls from one of the ships they raided, which at first seemed like he wanted to keep them for himself, but instead he kills them.
wiley shmitt hahah yeah the bed slaves? To appease both "The wizard's" red god and their own drowned god? Classic Victarion. Him and Damphairs chapters actually kill me. GRRM is a really funny guy, almost every chapter has at least one funny bit. Shitmouth in AFFC was a legend.
The TV version of the Dorne plot WISHES it was half as good as Xena was.
Yeah, the show started getting a little bit worse with each season once it moved past the books, and in season 8 it's really just a total mess of bad writing.
“I’m gonna end this here before I have a stroke”
I love you lol 🤣🤣
"Screw you! You don't know what it's like to be a real nerd!!"
-Quinn's words to live by
It's true though. Twenty years ago nerd was still an insult. Now a days, what are the most popular things? Stuff like Game of Thrones and Star Wars. Some of the nerdiest stuff to every be written. They are apparently making a Wheel of Time series too, along with King Killer Chronicles. Again some real heavy fantasy nerd shit. They are learning now that nerd stuff is the cool stuff. So they are hipstering it out because it's flavour of the month now.
They should make an animated series of Game of Thrones and restart it from the beginning
i kinda want some one to do a word for spoken word adaption, adding exposition or sceens that reveal thoughts as needed, done in fan film
so much work...
Suz V2017 jesus how old are you
Suz V2017 Dumb logic you got there
Suz V2017 go watch attack on titans, i dare you kiddo
Talk about how the show invented the extinction of the tyrells
To be honest that's one of the few things I forgive D&D. The tyrells were useless in the show and Cersei got rid of them in a quite spectacular and entertaining way. I mean, the explosion of the Sept of Baelor was awesome anyway, even if the writing was weak. (ps: forgive my english, i'm not a native speaker and it's really late)
Ariel Pagliero sorry but the tyrells are not useless... they are a part of the world George rr Martin created and had a huge importance in the series(the author even said that garlan and Willas tyrell shouldn’t have been cut out of the series cause they will have a huge part in the last 2 books)... the producers of the show got rid of them as soon as they didn’t have more books as a base to their story, so it can be more convenient to the direction they wanted to go... and is not just the tyrells, it’s also the martells, the Tully’s... even the Baratheons. I think by doing what they did they disrespected the legacy created during the first 5 seasons. The history of House tyrell having the largest army, being the 2nd most wealthy house of the seven kingdoms and being destroyed without even showing the battle and being extremely easy while the lannisters has struggled against the Starks, Tully’s and baratheons. Margaery and loras death had so many plot holes and was also just to show the viewer that for now on Cersei is the main antagonist of the show(again focus on he direction they wanted to go without the books)...
@@mattvieira100 I understand what you mean, i didn't say they are useless in the books, but they became useless in the show at that point. Either we accept that the books and the show are going separatley or we don't. I think they managed the extinction of house tyrell better than the dornish plotline, that's all i wanted to say.
Ariel Pagliero don’t think you do... they were useless just like any other family that became useless from after the show surpass the books... from now one it was the writers decision on what to do with them and they didn’t know what to, so like all the other families that are not starks,Lannister or Targaryen, they got rid of them, and in a way that is totally unrealistic to the story of the previous seasons so it could be convenient to the direction they were going. I suggest you check this thread gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:56349?useskin=oasis it gives way better explanation than I do
D&D are too dumb to write Lady Olenna or Margaery ... they also could not figure out what to do with brilliant and subtle Prince Doran Martell or Lord Manderly ... some of the best book characters. No running around with knives and spears? Useless.
It's D&D's thoughts on "strong" women. Crazy, overly sexualized, and dumb.
The Dragon Demands channel has some interesting info on what was going on behind the scenes kinda eye opening.
I liked Oberyn, but the rest of Dorne was pure shit, nothing but a big disappointment. Still a great show and even greater books imo
My thing is to keep the books as your mental lore version and the show as lesser retelling entertainment AND BE WILLING TO LAUGH and not act like it's a religious text to live by -- Funny or Die comedy review of S5 Gay of Thrones
ua-cam.com/play/PLRcB4n4CGcy-s2UrY63_4DEnbjVdZLwr2.html
klyana130 exactly, laughing at Euron and what Sandor Clegane had become was awesome
"We will meet again Clegane"
"I fucking hope not"
Classic
"I was the grass. Pleasant, complaisant, sweet-smelling, swaying with every breeze. Who fears to walk upon the grass? But it is the grass that hides the viper from his enemies and shelters him until he strikes." Doran Martell.
Really sad what they did to his character
The first three books were great, the last two were kind of mey. Two huge doorsteps of books and nothing really happens in them. The plot doesn't move more than a few inches. I know Martin had a hard time with the Meereenese Knot, but IMO he would have been better just scrapping AFFC and ADWD and starting over. Cut the knot and cut half the characters including Victarian who may have been written well but didn't do anything but serve as a hot lunch for the dragons. But Martin didn't and we still don't have a publication date for TWOW or ADOS.
Liz Smith There may have been less action in the 4. and 5. book but I still very much enjoyed them. The new characters are very cool imo and overall it's really interesting to see how the story continues. Those Brienne chapters were a bit boring sometimes tho
Leaving out Arianne, Quentyn, and Darkstar, then ruining Areo, Ellaria, and the Sand Snakes... UGH.
Yeah, now that the 8th season is out, turns out that the plot that killed the show was the MAIN PLOT...
This is where it all started the downward spiral that we've left with now (post-NK). It was butchered. Such a shame.
The worst thing about Show Dorne was the waste of potential.
They had these beautiful sets, costumes, filming in spain and they had Alexander Siddig and Indria Varma, if they wanted to cut Arianne to save some money I would understand. The Queenmaker plot could have easily been given to Ellaria with some adjustments.
But what we got...
I'm more disappointed, than angry.
Loved Dorne in the books, especially Arrianne. The show’s portrayal of Dorne is complete crap. But we can’t win them all.
R D
Arianne is an intriguing character. But I don't think D&D could ever have done her justice.
They somehow did the same thing with Asha Greyjoy. In the books she's one of my favorite characters but in the show I just can't stand her.
Book Versions
Doran Martell: A cunning schemer who pretends to be weak so the Lannisters don't see him plotting their demise in a way that avenges his family without mass casualties. He is also quick to stop potential threats.
Arianne Martell: Plots to protect her birthright and avenge her uncle by crowning Myrcella as Queen then sides with her father when she realizes he is not weak.
Quentyn Martell: Has his own storyline involving pirates, mercenaries and battles.
Trystane Martell: Not very prominent but that's in part because he is still young
Ellaria Sand: A strong, brave, and gentle hearted women who wants to protect her family and wants the vengeance to end
Obara Sand: A hot tempered warrior who wants to make war on the Lannisters for what happened to her father.
Nymeria Sand: An assassin who wants to kill Tywin and his children for what happened to her father.
Tyene Sand: Wants to crown Myrcella as queen instead of assassinate
Areo Hotah: A powerful guard loyal to Doran, capable of killing a Kingsguard.
Myrcella Baratheon: A brave young girl who survives an assassination attempt, losing an ear but remains strong.
Show Version
Doran Martell: A weak useless man who doesn't see the danger of his nieces pose to the realm
Arianne: Not present
Quentyn Martell: Not present
Trystane Martell: Useless pretty boy
Ellaria Sand: A cold vengeful woman who kills her lovers' family for basically no reason
Sand Snakes: Carbon copies of each other with different weapons, all one dimensional and one kills her own cousin while the other is upset that they didn't get to commit the most evil crime in their world.
Areo Hotah: Big guy who does nothing and dies
Myrcella Baratheon: Pretty girl who does nothing and dies.
Side note: As the show went on they seemed to have forgotten how hated the crime of kinslaying was considering one of the Sand Snakes was offended they didn't get to be the one who did it. And Euron publically proclaims he killed his brother/king to a crowd and when declaring he was going to kill his niece and nephew whereas in the books he told Aeron privately and just had his niece married.
Until seasons 7 & 8 I thought nothing would compare to Dorne shitstorm at the tv series
God, I was soooo wrong
Oh Trooper They clearly don't know what subversion means.
Overcompensating on the strong, independent female thing ruins characters and ultimately the plot. They did the same thing with Hermione Granger in the Harry Potter movies, by giving others' lines to her, dumbing down other characters as a result and ultimately turning her into a Mary-Sue. Without the source material to lean on, D&D have been exposed as your average, generic writers.
In the minds of lazy writers a strong female character is one who is inexplicably better at masculine things (combat mostly) than a man is.
Kapitan Dupa how unfortunate
They completely messed up Dorne in the show and specifically Elaria Sand. Her whole concern was that the sand snakes would get themselves killed for vengeance, just like Oberyn, then her daughters would feel like they had to avenge them. She wants to stop the circle of violence, not perpetuate it but the show doesn’t understand the books obviously
OK Dirt Rider Also when a group of bastard women kill the Prince of Dorne and his heir, becoming kinslayers in the process, apparently all of Dorne is just cool with letting them take charge and push them into a war that they can't possibly win.
I know that Dorne is repeatedly described as different but the noble families will be fiercely loyal to House Martell and aren't going to just follow the lead of a woman just because she used to be sleeping with the Prince's brother.
Also where is the new Prince(ess) of Dorne? We know that Doran's siblings are dead and left no heirs so the succession then likely passes through one of Doran's aunts or uncles. Succession doesn't work on the principle that whoever kills the previous ruler gets to rule in their place.
No point expecting any consistent logic from GoT at this point though
I believe Saralla Sand is next heir of House Martell. But I think what D+D trying do is destroyed the whole system of Houses. In the end there be no more houses.
My favorite part is the final fight of the sand girls is them randomly not having poison weapons anymore
I'm still mad about this because they wasted Alexander Siddig as Doran, he would've been amazing with the actual dornish plot
Also stannis daenerys and Jon are the most wrongly portrayed characters in the show stannis is a righteous man said by the frickin author and he isn't close enough to burn Shireen geographically I mean, daenerys isn't a smug psychopath, and Jon is not retarded he actually is a good commander.
People say why are we saying is bad have you considered that it is not faithful to the characters and themes of the source material have you considered the show doesn't make any logical sense discounting the books
Fosterpin the problem is that basic stuff was cut off and replaced with useless stuff like dick jokes with bronn and filler
I will agree with +Fosterpin you cannot just put whole book story into the movie, most importantly book have infinite budget because it's your imagination and author's talent to describe stuff, daenerys wasn't really that bad considering she is young, in season 1 she is a child and in the books (as far as i know) she is even younger. So they made a pretty good shortcut for her until like season 5.
Jon joined Night's watch as a kiddo too but for sure he is more dumb in the show.
I don't know how about Stannis but i liked him in the show and i understood instantly that Shireen death was to shock people and prepare for his defeat to make it more tragic (classic hollywood - shitty dramas, meanwhile low budget movies from countries like Estonia can make amazing drama with total budget of 2 boxes of pizza).
Some things might be annoying but it's better to try to ignore it for better experience. No one is watching movies like Transformers to see something clever, i know, i know GoT was amazing at the beginning but that's what you get when some writers are cunts and they think they can write a better story within a few months than story written by experienced writer who did it in few years.
TheLindeN the thing is yes you can't fit everything there the problem is that there are significantly bad changes
i won't disagree that there are some bad changes but look at it through industry - they have to kill off some people to save more money.
TheLindeN even if you do so you can keep faithful to a character chore because stannis is an atheist and not bin laden
To be fair, in the show the Sand Snakes were amazingly good at pointlessly spinning their weapons, especially the one with the whip.
You’re absolutely correct. I felt genuinely angry at the Dorne storyline primarily of how badly written the women are. They were such a missed opportunity. Feminism is equality between men and women, not women are better and men should be destroyed. This is not feminist or strong women. They are just hollow caricatures, not fully developed characters. It aggravates me even now.
As someone with zero knowledge about the book and never pay attention to any detail, i'm glad i managed to breeze till the end of the story. But the one which killed my suspense is the death of night king. A magical creature so strong that they erect a wall to hold its power, got killed so easily.
I know some people can pinpoint hundreds of failure in season 6 to 8, but i'm not a lore master or an experts in GoT lore.
The most embarrassing thing in GoT show. They totally ignored this storyline and at the end just killed them all.
That was the best course of action by that point. There was no way of fixing it
Numericalhorror no way to fix it? I think you are one of those writers, right? There was tons of way to develop their plot
I love reading. People nowadays just don’t know what they’re missing.
Books as a medium are fucking dead, if it werent from the show itself half the people wouldn't even know about this particular story, other mediums have pretty much shat on books.
It's true. I wouldn't have started reading unless I watched the show, and I needed a simplified visual introduction to the storyline just to understand all the houses. Overall the show is positive and the first 4 seasons were great. But what it has become is shameful.
Timo Cruz I read all the books before seeing any of the show. Really makes the show seem worse when it deviates badly.
No doubt my man. Now reading the books I'm just laughing at how simple minded the show has become.
It's easy to forget that there are all kinds of people in the world with a wide variety of mental strengths and weaknesses. Memory and imagination work in different ways for different people. For some people, the voice is king. Memory is about the spoken word. Others can mentally build worlds and imagine endless details of far off lands. Some are linear thinkers that thrive on story lines, while others are abstract thinkers that see patterns, and geometry, and number in everything. Some people can focus for long periods of time of on a singular train of thought, while others have kinetic minds built of scattered ideas, endlessly switching between perspectives and tangents. For some people, hundreds or thousands of pages of written text just doesn't register with the same impact as sounds and images.
For me, reading will never have the same impact as video. It's just not how my mind works. Reading a long detailed story doesn't stick for me. The pages of text are consumed and lost like smoke in the wind, and by the end of the book I've forgotten most of what I have read. The characters blend together, the story lines get mixed and confused, the places and settings and details get jumbled. Audio and video on the other hand - has an enormous impact for me. I can mentally walk through every episode, remembering the subtle inflections of the character's voices, the details and emotion of the scenes, and play the moments over and over again in my mind. For many people, the books will always be better than the movies, and for others, the books have no more of an impact than any other block of text, but the sights and sounds and music of the episodes will be remembered for a lifetime.
Whos here after dany burned everything in kings landing
@A Rhyme everything? That’s a understatement
How do I hate thee, Game of Thrones, for messing up Dorne; Let me count the ways:
1. Casting a wonderful, well-known-in-nerd-circles, talented actor to play an intriguing, intelligent Prince of Dorne and then letting him have, what, 5 lines before he's betrayed and murdered by his brother's girlfriend for no reason? (interestingly, I found the onscreen Doran/Areo Hotah relationship to be very credible and more interesting than the book version).
2. Having Areo Hotah, a greatly superior fighter, killed so quickly by a young woman half his size.
3. Ellaria is allowed to kiss Myrcella goodbye at the docks; why would Jaime, or even Prince Doran, want Ellaria or her daughters anywhere near Myrcella after they tried to kidnap her (I can understand Jaime and Bronn being dumb, but Doran knows how much Ellaria hates Myrcella for 'breathing our air' or whatever).
4. The Sand Snakes, as pointed out in the video, are standing on the dock when Trystane's ship (bearing the poisoned Myrcella as well as Jaime) departs for King's Landing; how do they appear on the ship after Myrcella's death several hours or days later? Did the gals borrow Littlefinger's teleporter?
5. Ellaria is a very unusual character in the book - when the older Sand Snakes grumble about avenging their father's death on Lannisters, craving vengeance, etc., Ellaria points out the futility of more killing: How many more Martells will die because of the drive to avenge their kin - she's lost her beloved Oberyn for vengeance; will she lose her young daughters (who admire their older sisters) as well? It's a sensible argument in any milieu but unusual in Dorne, that has simmered with resentment for 15 or so years since the murders of Elia and her babies and is now angry about Oberyn's death. But in the TV show, Ellaria decides to avenge her beloved Oberyn by slaughtering his older brother and teenaged nephew; as if Oberyn would have wanted that or Dorne needs it. And, as pointed out in the video, no one in Dorne seems to notice or care. While Ellaria is not a complete nobody, as an apparently acknowledged bastard of Lord Uller, she's not a Martell and has no right to rule Dorne. You'd think there would be a few factions lining up to support her and also some wanting to execute her. Maybe Ellaria's father has sent a few thousand troops to surround the Water Gardens, or the rest of Dorne is on drugs and doesn't realize that their prince and his heir are dead.
6. The characterization of the three Sand Snakes: in the book (as the video points out), they were very much individuals; in the show, they're Sex Kitten #1 and 2 and then there's Grumpy Big Sister. I can't believe I wasted five or ten minutes watching that awful Tyene/Bronn 'bad pussy' garbage. Ewww. The writers should be so embarrassed. Made me cheer when The Queen of Thorns puts the Sand Snakes in their place later; and even more when Euron kills Obara and Nymeria.
Did the writers forget that Oberyn tells Cersei that he has eight daughters? Where are the other five in the show? (we can assume that Sarella is so embarrassed by her sisters' behavior that she has gone to the Summer Isles to find her mother, if she's not still studying at Maester Academy in the guise of a boy, but the younger four - Elia, Loreza, Obella, Dorea - don't seem to exist beyond Oberyn's recollection)
I think that the main reason the TV show writers tried to make Oberyn's oldest three daughters badass sex kittens/warrior princesses/assassins was the fans' very positive response to the character of Oberyn himself. We loved Oberyn; smart, occasionally compassionate, sexy, and one of the few men in Westeros itching to not only sass the Lannisters but kill the head of their House. But, because Oberyn was killed off, the writers didn't have any other Dornish characters available to seize the niche of fan popularity, so they thought they could re-bottle lightning by turning three Sand Snakes into female Oberyn-clones. Which could not work due to Oberyn himself being mature enough not to be carried away by his passions (and having his big brother to calm him) and his daughters still being young and immature. Also, Pedro Pascal's performance was brilliant; it would be very difficult to replicate. And the writing of the Sand Snakes was such utter dreck - if they'd written Oberyn that way, he'd have been trying to seduce Brienne in King's Landing right before poisoning Tommen on his way back to Dorne...As we saw, they could not replicate Pascal's Oberyn Martell lightning-in-a-bottle charisma in his poorly written daughters. (but don't worry, Oberyn Martell can be viewed alive and well in a galaxy far, far away these days)