New Arm-based Laptop Processor from Qualcomm - The Snapdragon X Plus - Faster than the Apple M3!
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- Qualcomm has announced a new member of its Snapdragon X series of laptop processors. The Snapdragon X Plus is a 10-core processor using Qualcomm's custom Arm-based Oryon CPU core design. According to Qualcomm it has a higher multi-core Geekbench 6 score than the Apple M3.
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Android Authority has some more info about the Snapdragon X lineup including details of an 8-core version, some thermal numbers, and a breakdown of the benchmarking data for each chip! www.androidauthority.com/snapdragon-x-models-3429369/
Does it runs OSX? 😂
I can't wait for framework company to start providing ARM modules
Me too.
I'm willing to bet they aren't big enough to get them. But I hope they do.
I also find it interesting that Qualcomm held a GDC conference to tell game developers how to port their games to ARM64. That shows confidence.
If Microsoft truly transitions to ARM for their next console, it would present an intriguing opportunity for game developers. This move could distribute development costs across a wider base. With Nintendo already operating on ARM, and numerous indie games launching on mobile platforms, the ecosystem could embrace this shift.
@@zalcandil Indeed, and I recall some leaked roadmap slides for future Xbox consoles where at one point they wanted to evaluate whether to switch to ARM64. Not sure if that evaluation is still in their plans, but the fact they were considering it at one point is quite interesting. They would have to seriously improve x86-64 emulation though, last I heard there's still some missing functionality in regards to the newer instructions, which are likely in use on Xbox and would therefore need backcompat support.
What im afraid is that the transistion to ARM will kill the openness of the PC space. I hope I might be wrong. But I want to see laptops with upgradable ram and access to the uefi/bios like we have now. Not like the tablets/phones we have that everything is locked down. And down the line I want modular ARM cpus like we have with x86 for desktops. I want nothing to change from the current PC implementation. But im worried...
There won't be a transition to Arm. Arm based processors will become a thing, but there won't be a transition to Arm based only, at the exclusion of x86-64.
If WOA is a raging success, there will obviously be a knock-on effect, as Intel and AMD will have to fight for market share in the ultrabook market. Gaming and pro laptops are safe for the moment, though. They may be forced to go ARM if they cannot keep up with their current systems.
Don't worry it it gets successful then it will open gates for RISC based computer chips which means RISC based ISAs will viable for personal computer and we may get a RISC V alternative soon which will give all the modular features. But for that we have to cheer for ARM (just for now)
Basically, what's the point? I mean, all the ram on my phone is right under the soc, is over 2x the performance of my AMD 3200G, and makes no noise. A computer can now be a pi sized card.
I haven't upgraded my graphics card because they all are horribly expensive and hit a wall.
Still, I do want expansion of sorts with storage or slots.
I think X86 are still powerful enough to be relevant ... Especially for heavier tasks that don't require efficiency.
Also hopefully in mini PCs!
I have been wanting something like the mac mini for Windows. That runs completely silent, maybe even fanless, while still being very fast.
All of my yes. I'd happily ditch both Orange pi and Raspberry pi sbc's for it.
Skeptical until the device is released and hands on are given to reviewers without embargo, hand picked benchmarks by manufacturers aren't worth much as it's very cherry picked under perfect conditions.
True, but these numbers will be basically correct. Building up expectations and then failing to meet those expectations is dangerous.
@@GaryExplains Did you see the power usage chart that Qualcomm released? These chips use 50-70W of power, while Apple's uses 15W. It's not surprising or impressive that a 12-core 70W chip is faster than an 8-core 15W chip. It's notable that Qualcomm hasn't compared themselves to the M3 in power consumption or battery life.
@@danny.w6First of all, the M3 uses 20W, not 15. Secondly, the X-Elite chips get scaled down as low as 23w and the X-Plus get scaled down even more. So your claims are baseless. Also, the power consumption numbers are not directly comparable across the M series chips and the X series chips since they use different metrics.
@@danny.w6 Apple's 15W claim is CPU only, the M3's total power is around 35W, which is probably similar to the X Elite in 12W TDP mode. Remember Qualcomm has always said they can scale down to fanless devices too
Is the r/hardware discussion getting here as well😂
This called Cherry picking numbers, where is M3 in power charts in snapdragon slides.
Why does it matter. The whole purpose of it is to make windows devices more efficient and compact. Competing with apple will be a task for the future. AMD also took too many years to beat intel in performance and efficiency.
@@okman9684 "Why does it matter.".......It matters because if you are going to compare to a specific processor, you should give people the full picture, not just the parts that make you look good.
Thank you for summarizing their products.
Do we have benchmarks for how 70B parameter llms run on these chips yet?
Hi Gary
Do you think
They need physical fan to cool down or it can be cooled like technology in mobile
Like Apple, they will probably have both a fanless design and one with fans.
Fans are a waste better make air pressure with stuff like airjet @@andyH_England
Thanks, Gary. Was actually waiting for your explanation.
Looking at that product lineup, they appear to be a single die, binned into different skus so they can maximize usable chips from each wafer.
I find it a bit strange that the Snapdragon X+ is only 10% faster in multicore than the M3 considering that the M3 has only 4 high performance cores and 4 efficiency cores where the Snapdragon has 10 high performance cores.
This was Snapdragon X Plus. But the Snapdragon X Elite will have 3 variants,according to Qualcomm's own website and they have specified their specifications in detail for each
@@rohansharma8923 The M3 has three variants - the M3, M3 Pro, and M3 Max.
According to rumor, Apple's beefing up the M4's NPU so they can run LLMs on the SoC, and moving from TSMC's N3B node to N3E for better yields (decreasing the cost and manufacturing complexity of the SoC).
I'd also heard that Apple would be running AI models in ROM to improve load times, though whispers of that rumor have toned down significantly more recently.
Thanks Gary. Excellent video as usual
Glad you enjoyed it
Gary you always do a great job of "explaining" not touting. I can't wait to see the results when independent reviewers get their hands on these devices, hopefully these chips won't disappoint.
Yes, I love Gary for his attitude.
Interesting that it supports DX12. For the rest of APIs do they use DXVK ?
Do we know how the costing these processors stack up to amd and Intel chips for similar specs
No, and they aren't consumer products. There will be lots of discounting for volumes etc, plus strategic pricing for long term Qualcomm partners, etc.
We could estimate cost from the die size and I'm sure someone has already done so online, as the chips were shown of to media.
More expansive to produce as it uses a lot of silicon on tsmc
This would be good in my lenovo nano laptop. I'm not sure how useful the npu is outside of little os features though.
I only want to know how much control over the pc I have. Can I run whatever os I want wothout arbitrary features being disabled. Can I run linux properly.
These laptops will only officially support Windows. I am sure some clever people will find ways to get Linux running on it etc. However I wouldn't buy one if your main aim is to not run Windows on it, unless you have spare cash.
@@GaryExplains Its a very scary future if devices tell you what you must do with them to this degree. Given that arm is progressing into the position for all mobile processing, not having the official capacity to run an os of your choosing is a huge downgrade to the consumers level of control.
We lose more every day. Very depressing.
Really? I can't change the OS on my TV. I can't pick the OS for my smartphone or my tablet. The PC is quite unique in this respect, it is the odd one out, not the norm.
@@GaryExplains I think if anything what mobile has become is something to fear greatly.
We used to at least be able to jail break and root (now both are arguably broken beyond usability or not possible), but increasingly companies make it clear they want consumers and producers. People who they milk and people who make the milking equipment.
Right now, through the proliferation of apps and the appstore and careful control over the apis accessible to users, phones are increasingly limited. They are increasingly anti competitive black boxes.
The concept of general purpose computing is being taken and because cutting things up and making consumers pay to use individual parts of products they purchased is more profitable.
I by no means am pretending that for most products this level of openness is the norm, but it has been for general purpose computing.
We are heading towards a point where a normal person must do as one of a few companies tells them to do without question and with very little way in the way of consumer rights.
Even the EU, better than most, cant seem to keep up with all the ways companies are closing in on that shared dream amongst them.
TVs didnt use to be open but they didnt force ads.
Cars werent open, but you could repair them and change out many parts with parts of your own choosing.
Computers havent generally been open, but you could select parts, software and the operating system to your liking.
These are all going away with no benefits for them. Thats not to say techn9logy isnt improving but that these negative changes in particular dont have positive tradeoffs themselves and are purely negative from the consumers point of view.
@@GaryExplains is that future desirable to you?
Does anyone know if RAM is integrated on the chip (as in the M3) or external with the possibility to upgrade after buying a PC?
It’s a SOC or system on a chip. Ram,GPU, npu,cpu are all on one chip. Now hopefully they don’t go down apples route and make the SSD’s soldered.
Only the storage is on the "motherboard", but Apple chooses to solder that as they rely on swap, and that needs to reduce latency and be as fast as possible. If Qualcomm wants to look good, they recommend soldered storage, but it will be up to the OEMs.
@@andyH_England I meant on the chip itself. If on the motherboard each PC manufacturer could decide if it would be replaceable or not,
@@prebenhansen9846 Yes, the SSD is on the motherboard of the Macs and will be with WOA machines I would have thought. So, as you say, the OEM will decide and who knows?
The benchmark scores are from the 28w configuration?
i guess 28w is at 3.8ghz base clock
what becomes of intel and amd?
Personally, I only need a device for browsing and documents. Can't wait for it with long lasting battery.
I would love to see this or some variant of it in a Steam Deck competitor. Nintendo have been using ARM for decades and theyve made some great consoles with the platform. I would love to see someone else compete with them using ARM, especially since the next switch is using old cortex-A78 based cores in its next product.
Was thinking the same thing, would enable Nvidia to get into the game with their GPUs. Nvidia already dominate gaming laptops... the mobile Intel ARC GPUs are also an interesting direction.
@@Wobbothe3rdNvidia supply Nintendo with the SOC that has ARM CPU and Nvidia GPU. A different company would be nice.
Can you explain why the igpu is faster than from the intel core ultra, they have the same tflops!
Nice video 👍
because snapdragon engineering iqpus (for phones) like 14 years(?) now, and they didn't start from scratch; amd helped. while intel started from zero a few years ago. i guess their ultra low level igpus they are using for decades has nothing to do with their current generation.
@@nevzataydin1 doesnt answere my question, but thanks!
@@richi2870 flops are just one of the metrics for one of the aspects. the other computational things a gpu makes and its efficiency are another matter. battlemage is not as efficient as amd's last generation igpus for instance.
For some reason they did not include M3 in the power efficiency comparison graph
Because they'd lose, and it's not even close lmao. These chips use 50-70W maximum, while the M3 uses 15W.
That has been covered extensively when the X Elite was announced. Qualcomm recognizes that the efficiency battle is with Intel and AMD for business laptops, since this is the Windows ecosystem.
@@danny.w6 Probably. But I think what matters is not the max power consumption but the curve. Qualcomm CPUs may have similar performance at 15W, or they may be slower - can't tell that by the max consumption
I don't think the Snapdragon X chips use 70W. Do you have any proof of that?
@@danny.w6m3 chip can use 4096 watts if BIOS was unclocked
Love that you are wearing one of my company tee shirts. I just picked up my nRF54 series tee shirt today at the office :)
If Nordic want to send me an nRF54 tee that is fine by me!
@@GaryExplains we love it too that you are waring our nRF53 Series t-shirt! We will reach out so that you can get a nRF54 as well.
@@NordicSemi Can I get one of these t-shirts? Love your nRF products!
Man I love that chip. And the shirt! Nerd candy.
@@cthoadmin7458, we're thrilled to hear you love our nRF products! While we're not able to send out t-shirts at the moment, your support means a lot to us. But maybe there will be future giveaways with t-shirts.
When it comes to portable thin laptops, I remember back in those days the reign of Intel Atom Processors. RIP
USB4 will be added via pcie lanes i guess, but not embedded
Will all Windows apps be rewritten for ARM? As currently all apps are x86 coded.
How will these apps work?
Microsoft has been working on Windows for Arm, including all the developer tools, for several years. There is even an Arm version of Visual Studio (and Visual Code). To convert an app to Arm it just needs to be recompiled (including Win32 API apps) using the latest Visual Studio. It is the same process when Apple moved to Arm. For apps that aren't recompiled there is an x86 and x86-64 emulator built in to Windows on Arm (similar to Apple's emulator on macOS).
@@GaryExplains I see, Thank you for detailed reply!
on the one hand one would think that if a program is in a high level language like C or C++, then should just be a recompile. In working with the Intel DPDK library, written in C, there are a number of gcc options used that deal with x86 specific features. Makes me wonder about that when retargeting because I already discovered some options that were crucial.
In another area, I was thinking of writing an API that has the same semantics as the POSIX poll() wanted to use SIMD instructions to make the scan it does operate about 8 times faster. So gcc and clang have these high level intinsics defined thatncan be used to program with such but in a presumable portable manner. But never used these before and would be interesting to see if they get supported when ARM or RISC-V is the target. So in my programming domain performance is the imperative and features that might tie the code down rather closely to the CPU are fair game. For those writing C and C++'these days, performance is rather often a top priority.
Saying all this to say that writing primarily in some portable high level language - well, there could still be things going on that clamp rather closely or intimately with the hardware strata.
Its interesting that the trend in phone SoC is moving away from Big Little architecture while at the same time coming to laptop (minus Qualcomm, of course).
When Nuvia originally contracted with ARM, they were going to manufacture a server chip.
Qualcomm bought them as Microsoft's silicon proxy which is why there was that big ARM lawsuit against Qualcomm.
ARM provided an artchitectural license and codeveloped this chip with Nuvia at a discounted rate under the understanding this was to be a server chip - a market segment ARM was anxious to get into.
How can you compare a 10 core to a 8 core and 4 of the are efficacy cores!
Easy, you compare them while noting the differences. There won't always be a 1:1 similarity between processors from Qualcomm, Apple, Intel or AMD. I thought that would be obvious.
good now make a desktop version with more clock speed please.
Those are some very impressive memory transfer rates they are boasting there, but I'm not aware of any information about how many memory channels these chips can access. If they want to leverage that all that AI processing power, particularly against the fat memory bus on the M3 chiplets, I would hope that they have more than a single memory channel.
128 bit memory bus
LPDDR5X-8488
135 GB/s
I am not too excited until I see how well they support these things and improve over the next few years.
Wait, isn't amds latest is 8945 series? How could they compare it with the latest Intel but not the latest AMD offerings?
There is no actual difference except npu or ai nonsense.
Now where is the Elite X Plus with 16 Cores ??? :)
Huh … must've missed it - I didn't see a comparison with the various Apple M3 processors.
Especially interested in single core performance numbers.
As you know, the _snappiness_ of a computer is primarily determined by the fastest single core speed as most pedestrian tasks can't be easily multithreaded - multicore comes in when running heavily multithreaded tasks like video editing, transcoding, and graphics rendering - the kind of thing creators and 3D graphics designers do.
For normal users and workloads, more than four cores or so result in the remainder sitting idle soaking up power (unless the chip is smart enough to shut them off). My primary driver is still a 2020 iMac 5K with an Intel Core-i9 (10910) with 10 cores and 20 threads - and past boot up (when a ton of things are initializing simultaneously) I can tell you that unless I'm doing transcoding or something specifically designed to run multithreaded, most of those cores are sitting idle.
I've found the best test of a computer's snappiness for normal consumer workloads is something like Speedometer 3.0.
Anyhow, I'd wait for the machines to actually be on hand before crowing about superior performance - Qualcomm spec sheets are not the most reliable metric when it comes to performance comparisons.
Qualcomm is easily the sleeziest chip maker on the market: they agreed to FRAND terms so their IP would be included in the modem standards, but turned around and charged for the modem chip, the IP on the chip, and then _a percentage of the device in the which the modem is embedded._ This means that Qualcomm gets a percentage of the RAM upgrade in my 1 TB iPhone 15 Pro Max even though they had nothing to do with the incremental cost of the RAM, simply because it contains a Qualcomm modem.
This is gonna be great, maybe I´ll even be buying a Windows laptop in the future 😃
Fab video as usual 👍
This plus Linux could be the next standard for developers. Imagine a linux laptop that actually lasts ~20 hours without charging like a ARM based laptop. That would be absolutely ideal.
When will this "next standard" happen?
so because manufacturers going to make windows on arm laptops, developers will start coding on linux? really didn't get it. are linux developers using macos right now?
42mb cache ist a lot on the arm sector, or it is never written down at the specs. but makes sense, as there should be a lot more space available as in smartphone housings.
as windows is not my friend, the same for macos, I'm looking forward to the usage with linux. sadly arch will not work, as it is x86 only (until now).
the efficiency seems to play the cards again a bit towards intel/amd. of cause the snapdragons are way more efficient, but it's easy to see, that the efficieny decreases with more cache/clocks. looking back to the last years, it seemed, that arm cpus consumed close to zero watts, where the intel/amd chips always consumed way too much.
with ab boost of max 4,2 GHz for the snapdragons there's still a big gap to 5+ GHz on the intel chips. and physics tell us higher clocks result in a much much higher power consumption.
time will tell, I like to see competition.
Do arm chips mean soldiered on ram and SSDs and so we lose the ability to upgrade because if that is the case that will suck.
but how much of that is just Apple being typical Apple? Always desiging products to suit their corporate goals at the expense of consumer preferences
@@TheSulross Close proximity of memory allows for much higher memory bandwidth - up to 800 GB/sec on the Max chips vs. around a max of 50 GB/sec or so in slotted memory.
Looking forward to SBC's like the Raspberry Pi to get this type of performance. Should be more expensive than lighter models, but cheaper than intel/AMD systems.
Linux support ?
Cool outro music
It is wonderful to see both ARM and Qualcomm bring more choice to consumers. Competition is the best thing when it comes to price!!! China is not far behind.
We will have to see once real products come out. But comparing the multi-threaded performance of an M3 with only 4 P cores (+4 E) vs 10 and 12 P cores is a bit concerning for Qualcomm. Will be interesting to see the TDP given they didn't compare M3 on power usage. For M3 Performance cores: 4.05 GHz max, Efficiency cores: 2.75 GHz.
It's their first gen and they are using 4nm instead of 3nm that Apple is using.
Chapters where?
Paragraphs flying overhead! 🤔🤷♂️
@@GaryExplains not clickable, are they? 😉
I'm glad to see more powerfulo and efficient ARM platforms start to come out for general-purpose computing. We'll see how actual hands-on performance looks but, honestly, even if they only turnout to be at parity with Apple Silicon in the real world, it's a huge and welcome step forward.
Now if Microsoft's next go at Windows ARM is more serious and comprehensive than their last... 🤔
Interesting comment about Windows on Arm. What failings do you see in Windows 11 on Arm processors?
@@GaryExplains Pure software emulation of x86 (unlike M processors which enable hardware emulation of x86 memory model) which is terribly slower, and lack of software. Microsoft failed to make WoA relevant enough for devs to care and release software for it.
@simon4512 Hmmm... I disagree, in fact I did a whole video about that. Did you watch it? "x86 Emulation on Arm CPUs - Better on Windows or macOS?" ua-cam.com/video/uY-tMBk9Vx4/v-deo.html
@@GaryExplains Mostly it's getting app developers and OEMs on board. Surface X was...lackluster. Getting Dell, HP, and Lenovo on board with laptops and business computers would be pivotal, IMHO.
They are on board already. For example, Lenovo has Snapdragon laptops already.
The M3 still rules by far. 4 performance cores doing the same as 10 on the SD being far more power efficient. Not even stealing through Nubia Qualcomm is delivering something comparable. What a disaster 😂
Where and when can I buy it?
"It" isn't for sale. Do you mean a laptop with it in? If so, as I said in the video, they will be available soon.
It's "summer of 2024" and later. Might be june, july, august or september 2024. Just wait and see.
@@cjeelde Great 👍 then we se how fast it is, now it’s just a marketing hype and sails Persson trying to make a move
@@retroheadstuff8554exactly! And also how optimized everything is.
Look at Apple: such a "total vertical control" for everything. They can bring great performance and battery life thanks to that.
Now let's see how the PC industry can reply.
Also, this X Elite don't even support 6K monitors or larger! Apple got 6K+ support on laptops! MacBook Pro got 8K output support! At least for M2 Pro/Max, not sure about M1 Pro/Max.
Laptops with X Plus/Elite will probably be good, but will those be THAT good as the marketing pretend now? Let's wait and see. And also, PCs will have both x86 (mostly Intel) and ARM now. The best thing will probably be to pick one side and not do both. If we want optimized computers/solutions.
One interesting thing about X Elite is the built-in 5G modem! So you can probably buy a PC laptop with a 5G connection! Not just WiFi! That's something missing in Apple's Macs. I know you can use iPhone's 5G connection for your Mac but it would be nice with built-in 5G for any Mac! Don't need to be a 5G modem inside the SoC, it's probably better to have it externally so Apple can make fewer versions of every SoC to keep the cost as low as possible.
Would we pay 100-200 dollar extra for built-in 5G?
This is exciting
I want to see them in Mini PC's.
Theres no word on linux support yet, right?
Hm, I expect an 8-core X SoC coming soon. Gold, Silver, and Bronze.
You are right.
Qualcomm has an 8-core part in the works.
It's codenamed Purwa.
They chose M3 as the opponent for the speed graph, but they conveniently forgot about it on the power consumption graph. Well, similar to Apple's presentations, the art of cherry picking. Doesn't matter, though. The s/w will be the judge of the race, as always. The best processor is nothing without a good s/w to back it up. The ball is in Microsoft and Linux side now.
Where are the laptops with X chips?
Qcom said when they announced X Elite: "summer of 2024", so that's the earliest that you can except.
Punny that Qualcomm need to compare the xPlus multiSuper version against the M3 Vanilla...
pears vs. apples
I am absolutely happy that Qualcomm got this achieved. I just don't like the marketing BS.
Release a product! Reviewers and consumers are waiting.
Obviously Qualcomm doesn't make laptops, so we are waiting for Samsung, Microsoft, and Lenovo, etc. But yes, we need some actual devices!
This is the way to go for mainstream laptop users and compete against the more expensive Macs. Slim form factor, fanless, low heat, loooong battery life.
Finally, a Windows laptop noiseless, Snapdragon X Elite will be the CPU for laptop in 2024.
I await third party benchmarks and compatibility reports, including for gaming. If they can be competitive and reliably compatible before Windows 10 support ends (and thus Windows support for my 6th gen Intel CPU ends), they could make their way into a Windows 11 build in place of the latest Intel or AMD chip of the time.
These won't be gaming laptops, they will play games - yes, but they are not gaming machines. If gaming is your thing then you need a laptop with a dedicated GPU like an RTX or whatever.
@@GaryExplains I'm thinking longer term. If they can compete in laptops this year, perhaps we can get a desktop variant in a year that can be combined with a dedicated GPU. However, the laptop version with built in GPU can be compared with things like the Steam Deck when it comes out to give an idea of whether that will be possible.
Longer term yes, seeing a desktop PC with a Snapdragon X processor and an AMD or Nvidia GPU would be nice. But I thought from your original comment that you were thinking more short term as you mentioned the EOL for Windows 10 etc.
@@GaryExplains Windows EOL is over a year away. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic seeing short term in that plan as a few weeks and long term as a year and a bit.
One year isn't long term. Five to ten years is long term. Three to five years is mid terms. Short time is a year.
Where is Linux support for this chip?
It technically runs Linux. I mean Android uses the Linux kernel and Qualcomm has a long history with Android. When the Elite X was announced Qualcomm actually used a Linux benchmark result to talk about the performance. The question is more about the laptop makers and if they have locked things and if the UEFI is accessible etc.
Needs upgradeable ram and ssd and dedicated gpu capatibility.
Just like the MacBook?
@@GaryExplains yes exactly!
otherwise it's planned obselense on steroids.
And extreme soldered on at purchase armband ssd upgrade apple like prices.
You might be right, but it doesn't seem to have impacted the sales of the MacBook.
@@GaryExplains actually that's the main reason they have a macbook d8ales slump resale value is also down on the he 8gb 256gb used model as once that ssd goes the whole machine is bricked and cannot boot from external backup drives.
Professionals and consumers are finally realizing this is a very risky purchase.
.and the older intel machines have even worse resale as apple stops supports.
You can get a intel mac pro new for less than.halve right now.
If Qualcomm wants more success simply make ram and ssd upgradeable don't even try the its a new platform lie as hackers have already shown you can do this to the new macs with the right tools and actual apple private software.
They also must allow for dedicated and intel amd nvidia pics and egpus.
Better yet come out with a usb4 or 5 based adreno based gpu on steroids.
Thx Gary! Not surprising, PC is destined to move to Arm chips starting with laptops first. Arm is already a behemoth and will become even more powerful in the future until new design comes to replace it.
About X-Elite it's awesome to see this progress forward, however I am afraid Windows environment will tank this excellent SoC so much that it will be always a loser in comparison to Apple's ultra efficient and incredibly well optimized/closed ecosystem. Still it's an excellent development for the PC so thumbs up for that!👍
Shouldn’t it be compared to the Pro and Max chips?
Pro, yes
I think It will be priced to m3 level That's why they are comparing it to m3
Die size is similar to base M chip
Where can I buy it? With what kind of ecosystem?
What I buy a Mac I have get Apple’s core PC product, not just a niche.
These processors will appear in laptops from Lenovo, Samsung, and Microsoft, etc running Windows.
@@GaryExplains I have Windows 11 ARM in Parallels Desktop. I see that the emulation of x86/x64 code is note perfect. Vert disappointing is the pool of native ARM software. You barely can download ARM code!
Any Steam support for Windows ARM games? (Haven’t checked for a long while.)
Obviously the Windows ecosystem is different to Apple's. Not everyone (including yourself) is happy with the Windows on Arm ecosystem.
@@GaryExplains Yes. It should be on pair, if the software is written portable. Then a recompilation should be sufficient.
Yes, a recompile is generally all that is needed. Visual Studio supports everything needed for developers to generate an Arm version even for legacy Win32 code.
If we can get a PC that has the reliability of phones that don't break every month, I would be greatful to Snapdragon forever. I'm fascinated that my phone rarely is turned off, always on, charge when lowbattery, doesn't crash. Can use anytime, super reliable. My PC sometimes blue screens, always has some sore of issues or errors with browsers, applications and such. It's tiring to have this old platform and a new one is desperately needed!
It's because of the shit os and cheap components of non high end laptops
Having just returned a 185U based laptop I can safely say that it’s going to be Windows that lets down these snapdragon CPU’s unfortunately. Such a shame as the windows market has some ridiculously good displays this year
185U?
@@GaryExplains whoops ultra 9 185H.
Ok, interesting, and it was Windows that was the issue?
Thank you!
You're welcome!
The guys developing the Qualcomm chip are the top people from Apple. How many engineers did these guys take with them when they formed Nuvia. They worked with these engineers and knew who were the best and brightest. I won’t be surprised if Qualcomm does much better on benchmarks. The problem Qualcomm has is most people that buy Apple don’t care about benchmarks.
I don't think Qualcomm is aiming to convert Apple users but rather Windows on x86 users.
@@GaryExplains didnt the benchmarks turn out to be fake? They didnt allow to test them either, test them by independent groups
No. A website called SemiAccurate published a story saying that OEMs aren't getting the results on their upcoming devices that Qualcomm did on its reference device. At the launch journalists could see the tests running and they could be run on demand and the results seen, but a Qualcomm PR person did the actual clicking! All will be fully revealed when devices launch.
@@GaryExplains oh, so Qualcomm didnt allow to test things after they said they will, that seems strange to do, but it doesnt mean that its fake
When did Qualcomm say it would allow testing? This may be just about interpretating of words or meaning, but at the launch clearly Qualcomm said that devices were several months away and it was just launching the chip. The fact there were preproduction reference devices available at all, was quite an achievement. What type of testing were you expecting?
It’s not about the raw performance… it’s the level of integration between the OS and the hardware made all by one single company… it’s all bells and whistles just like in the android vs iPhone scenario where sure there are more powefull android with better hardware but yet most apps simply are better in iOS
I disagree, that is actually just a marketing message that Apple repeats endlessly and it seems to be working. Do you have any engineering experience?
for me, i find the idea of arm in a computer quite stupid cause microsoft tried that in 2012 and failed. also what about app compatibility. do all devs need to switch to arm now
Well I think Microsoft is working with them and they are really going all in on this. They don’t want Apple to take up more market share in this space.
It’ll depends if they can get companies like Apple did to develop or port to arm on windows.
You are a bit behind, Windows on Arm has been a thing for a couple of years now.
*Wow great stuff from Qualcomm!*
No DX 11 support?! Fail.
I am assuming that DX12 is backwards compatible, no?
This is a good showing by Qualcomm, but there’s still no answer to Max and Ultra variants.
Who uses these variants? Maybe video editing ? Pair with a high end gpu.
Gaming ? Apple or arm windows doesn't have this user base yet.
AI ? Qualcomm should already beat apple there.
Qualcomm also has 80watt variations.
@@shadowangel8005 the X elite doesn’t scale very well. Even at 80w it trails the Max/ultra quite a bit.
Please come to mini pc. Please. Heaven forbid someone made a mini pc before this with SD.
I read that Qualcomm is consistently lying about those benchmarks and they did not allow others test those machines so I don't believe anything until we get independent reviews.
Obviously whatever confusion or suspicion there is about the benchmarks, all will be clear once the devices are available to consumers.
....OK, so is this the end of x86?
Would love to see this processor in a tablet
Really? What tablet do you use now? What do you do in a tablet that needs such high processing power.
@@GaryExplains tablet running Windows like surface pro or even better, surface go
They aren't really tablets are they, 2in1 at best.
@@_Digitalguy🤝🏽
The Surface 10 is supposed to have the X Elite, and if it really does, and the Galaxy Tab S10 comes out with just a Snapdragon 8 Gen 3, it will be really difficult even for hardcore Samsung fans like me, to recommend the Galaxy Tab S10 over the Surface 10 or the iPad M3.
@@rolins3279 Actually rumors paint a different picture. Surface pro is coming with X Plus, but maybe there will be some skus with 32 or 64 GB RAM that have X Elite. Tab S10 is not coming with gen 3 but with gen 4 early next year. And Qualcomm has announced that the gen 4 will be based on the same Orion cores as the X Plus/Elite so we should see a big jump in performance
Bring back Speedtest G
Those Nuvia guys really screwed Apple over. I'm surprised Apple dropped their lawsuit againt them. But ultimately, having super powerful ARM CPUs from more companies is good for everyone. Looking forward to some really nice Linux ARM laptops that don't rely on reverse engineering Apple Silicon.
Arm x5 is competitive with nuvia and apple cores as well
Less announcing, more availability please. So much vaporware in the tech world right now.
This means that there's more competition on the market. Intel and AMD Must be vigilant as well as Apple. 😎💯💪🏿👍🏿
Qualcomm: X gona give it to you
Me waiting a year later 😴
Looks promising I'm waiting to see what China brings to the market I've heard they are working on RISC-V probably won't be on Windows though. But Windows is starting to show its age. Linux probably is the only safe option for companies other than American businesses these days. Since NSA has placed so many backdoors into Microsoft, Apple and Android products.
I need a Linux laptop with these chips
Let’s go Windows (Microsoft)… We need Windows support for a variety of ARM processors; including the Apple M-Series!!!
These new chips are a welcome new edition to the windows space.
But ...
They are the natural competitor of M2 , not M1 or M3
They are compared to M3 ,because they are late to the market and they have to.
Other than that , they have similar performance to M2. Not because they
are nuvia silicon, but because they are built on same process.
Likewise the M processors have been better than the competition, until now
because they have been based consistently on a superior lithography,
Not because they are Apple silicon
Chip design does play a role , but when its role is stressed and bloated
out of proportion, then someone needs to restore order and belittle it , more
than it is normally needed.
Also...
Not sure why 45 TOPS is touted as something extraordinary.
Supposedly, sd 888 was doing 27 tops. Then sd 8 gen 1 double that.
Then sd 8 gen 2 was twice as fast as sd 8 gen1. At least according
to Qualcomm.
And this is of course , probably because no-one cares to say about
what TOPs we are talking about.
So 10% faster than an M3 with 4 performance cores?
It was originally supposed to compete with m1 not m3
I guess, Apple will have a few years lead in this field, but I can live with that. A better price, better upgradeability and Linux support make up for it.
Why do you think Apple will have a few years lead?
I havent seen anything to indicate that these wont be locked to windows similarly to the latest chromebooks where they seem to be purposefully patching out methods of installing an os of your choosing. Its very depressing.
@@GaryExplains It is a catch up game, where Apple is doing a great job to stay ahead. They have more resources than any of the competition, they reserve the latest chip making tech for their chips.
@@BeefIngot I don't really understand what are the benefits of locking out other OSes. Even today there are manufacturers who are specialized on Linux hardware or claim Linux support on some models.
@mullergyula4174 Catch-up yes. A few years lead, no.
Are Intel and AMD now dinosaurs?
Define dinosaur. By market size?
@@GaryExplainsby age meaning ancient I guess
Intel was founded in 1968, is that what you mean?
@@GaryExplains Big and powerful but went into extinction.Will risc chips dominate and cisc die away or wither on the vine.
@tonysheerness2427 RISC chips have been threatening to kill CISC chips for at least 3 decades. The thing to remember is that internally Intel and AMD chips are also RISC chips.
Now Windows needs to get better on Arm
Maybe. What parts need improving? Have you used it?
X Plus is as fast as core i3 gen 4
🤔
without more detailed metrics, this is just marketing bullshit
another qualcomm shrill. It’s not even comparable to an M3. It’s got 10 performance cores and qualcomm are not releasing all the benchmarks with M3 comparisons just a multicore single benchmark. That says a lot. Get a grip it’s at least three years behind and we don’t even have the full non qualcomm benchmarks. It’s great to see competition but really?
Hmmm... The single core scores for the X Elite were released previously and covered in several videos on this channel. The main difference for the X Plus is the lower core count. Sorry you think I am a shrill, I personally thought I was just try to inform people of what is happening and I make it very clear that the numbers are from Qualcomm. Are you an Apple user by any chance?
Worlds most OP Android gaming console
Eh? It doesn't run Android.
2:39 I love these cherry-picked numbers :P God bless marketing depts their respective CEOs must be breathing down their necks
Mobile CPU catching up to desktop cpu. What a world we live in
Unfortunately, ARM will never catch up to Desktop CPUs brotha. Remember, at the end of the day absolutely nothing will be all out WATTAGE. This is where Desktops will always win.
@williamcopeland2617 So, what about all those Arm processors running the in datacenter?
@@GaryExplains Again, at the end of the day no ARM CPU will outperform an INTEL Desktop when it comes to RAW Power. Wattage will always win out. By the way, this is a fact, not my opinion. And if you are familiar with hardware, you should know this. Come on brotha! I am talking about straight up RAW power, not which one is more efficient. Let's not mix the two up.
See my previous comment, you didn't answer my question but just restated your opinion.
@@williamcopeland2617AMD is currently the leading x86 CPU designer...
soldered RAM.... 😒
That's a no from me. I want a PC I can upgrade myself after purchase to save money.
To hell with ARM PCs.
Are there no Intel/AMD laptops with soldered RAM? Asking for a friend.
@@GaryExplains There are but, at least with Intel/AMD laptops you have choice to find computers with those processors that don't have soldered RAM or storage. Truly a shame you have to research for a computer that respects a user's right of choice for upgradability.
Truly I don't like the way technology is going. I'm happy that my HP Pavillion desktop and my DELL Latitude E7450 have upgradable RAM and Storage.
I just hope ARM doesn't force this soldered RAM and no upgrades after purchase mess. It rubs me the wrong way.
It has nothing to do with Arm.
@@StaceyAyodelesoldered means faster and thinner, I hate that I can't upgrade but tbh, if I want upgradability, I would buy a pc or something.
@@jaydeep-p These ARM computers ARE PCs. Like...what the heck?!
Guess I will avoid ARM PCs forever and still to Intel/AMD desktops and laptops.
I will never pay money for a computer I can't upgrade.
One thing is clear Qualcomm just beat Intel and AMD in.... " Most ridiculous naming for their processors "🤣
more numbers = more good