Linux on Snapdragon X Elite Laptop with Tim Benton at the Linaro booth at Embedded World 2024
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- At the Linaro booth during Embedded World 2024, Tim Benton, Vice President of Engineering at Linaro, discussed the integration of Linux with Snapdragon X1 Elite laptops. This collaboration between Linaro and Qualcomm has resulted in a full Linux experience on Snapdragon chips, with Benton highlighting excellent performance comparable to Apple's chips. Unlike the closed ecosystem of Apple, Linaro and Qualcomm worked closely to upstream all necessary components for Linux compatibility, ensuring out-of-the-box functionality without the need for custom kernel builds.
Able, who worked on bringing up the Linux platform, emphasized the rapid progress achieved, with full Debian support and necessary patches prepared even before the official announcement of the X1 Elite. While some adjustments were needed for drivers and device trees, much of the software could be ported over seamlessly, showcasing the interoperability of ARM-based systems and the potential for powerful, commercially available laptops by the end of the year.
Comparisons were drawn with Apple's M-series chips, with Benton suggesting that the Snapdragon X1 Elite's performance rivals or surpasses even the latest M3 chip in certain aspects, particularly in multi-threaded tasks. Discussions veered towards speculation about Apple's strategies, including the possibility of combining multiple chips for increased power, although Qualcomm hasn't ventured into similar approaches yet.
The conversation shifted to Linaro's evolution over the years, transitioning from solving specific technology problems to delivering end-to-end solutions. Collaborative engineering remains central, with Linaro's role extending beyond open-source contributions to optimizing entire product ecosystems, as demonstrated by their involvement in custom distributions and power optimization for Snapdragon-based laptops.
Benton highlighted Linaro's collaboration with individual companies, such as Remarkable, in optimizing software stacks for specific hardware, ensuring efficient power management and performance enhancements. The discussion also touched upon the growing interest in ARM-based servers, with Linaro's efforts focused on enabling SBSA compliance and supporting initiatives like AWS's Graviton.
Further conversations delved into Linaro's role in facilitating the adoption of ARM architecture across various industries, including automotive and cloud computing. The company's involvement in ensuring compatibility with Microsoft Windows on ARM highlighted their commitment to open-source enablement and interoperability.
At the Linaro booth, demonstrations showcased advancements in cloud-based testing using LAVA-managed services, emphasizing continuous automated testing for ARM-based systems across different standards and platforms. Benton also discussed Linaro Connect, an event attracting around 600 participants, serving as a platform for collaboration and networking within the ARM ecosystem.
Overall, Linaro's presence at Embedded World 2024 underscored its pivotal role in driving innovation and standardization within the ARM ecosystem, from enabling Linux on Snapdragon laptops to advancing cloud-based testing and interoperability across diverse hardware platforms and industries.
Description by Chatgpt.
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As a Linux user, this is the video I was waiting for! :D
Me too
yes linux laptop users deserve good battery too
Duuuuuuuude!!!!
i dont use linux but i wish to . i like the interview he allowed them to talk
Game changer ahhh can’t wait
I'm hype for linux ARM laptops with real horsepower
why is it so ??
AND battery life
Linux on ARM...that's the way to go!😊
whats great in this ?
@@rishichoubey5060 What's great on Windows on ARM? It doesn't even have enough native software...
Yep
@@rishichoubey5060 easily running Android apps, for one!
@@knofi7052 Well Linux barely have x86 native software.. also they will definitely make more Windows arm apps or you can run it with emulations
No way i thought this going to be impossible, due to the possibilitiy of qualcomm only working with Microsoft but now it seems to be possible clearing my doubts on arm a bit more.
Props to the linaro team and qualcomm for this!
Of course they won't only work with Microsoft. The cloud and datacenters run on Linux and Qualcomm already contributes heavily to the kernel. Android is also Linux based and a range of smartphones running Android use the Qualcomm Snapdragon processor
@@UA-camd-jv5oi Well just because it supports Android doesn't mean it will support desktop Linux
@@antonioytm well it does mean it can. the kernel has support. if the mainline or your distro kernel doesn't you can patch it!
Wait that means Linux drivers will be supported on day 1 release on snapdragon x elite, that's freaking awesome !
I hope this will be on par with Apple's M Chips in REAL LIFE TEST. Excited for this to be release. Thank you for this great video
Based on what is known so far, and as it was always likely to be, it depends on what you’re doing. Single threaded it seems to beat M2, lose to M3 and M4, or a faster M3, will likely come out later this year. However, Apple need to revise their architecture a bit due to their version of meltdown turning up in their M series chips. Multi-threaded the X Elite seems to win because it doesn’t have any efficiency cores, at least based on what I can remember.
You also need to remember that this is the first chip they are launching. As such expecting it to win outright is more than a bit unlikely. It might never win outright, it would be nice if it is genuinely competitive though. I would love to get rid of my remaining Apple devices and save a bunch of money going forwards.
They are telling to be on par with M3 Pro in tests. But beating M3 is realistic.
Depends how you compare them, if you compare the 12 power cores X Elite with only the 4 power cores basic M2/M3, it's not that bad (if you can inore it's need 3x more power cores to beat them), but when you compare the 12 power cores against the 5/6 power cores and 6 efficiency cores, they only can tie, and that is actually not too good, if 5 adults and 6 childrens can tie against 12 adults in tug of war, the 12 adults can't be proud..
Also the basic M3 had 19W peak and 8W sustained power comsuption for example in Cinebench, and X Elite had 23W peak and 23W sustained (so it's a fanless design vs a chip which required cooling comparison, so that tiny bit difference between then is not looking good, also if you use it on 80W, you only gain 10% performance compared to the 23W version, so it's only 10% extra performance for 250% extra power comsumption?
@@TamasKiss-yk4st That 23 watt and 80 watt is whole system power. And benchmarks are here and M3 by 1000 points.
Even if it doesn't beat the M chips, it'll still be a huge leap forward in portability, efficiency and battery life for laptops. I'd totally get one of these just for the ability to run linux with stellar battery life and decent performance.
This is my dream laptop a light, powerful, ARM powered linux laptop with 20+ hr battery life. TAKE MY MONEY!💰
Oh my god, this is awesome, I really did not think, I'd see Linux running on the 8cx and the new elite this quickly. Thanks linaro!!
If they have OFFICIAL Linux and FreeBSD support, I will consider buying it!
Yeah it’s official, qualcomm officially supports linux, they are contributing to the kernel
@@abd5139 Yeah, i saw that and it's awesome!
I doubt FreeBSD support will happen, but that's as much a FreeBSD issue as anything else. There aren't enough people using FreeBSD, and they don't have enough driver developers. Probably you could run it in a virtual machine as I believe they will come with virtualization.
@@harryhall4001 That's sad but, to be honest, expected. At the same time, I don't plan buying a laptop so, I probably won't even really care for their chipsets in the end of the day.
Good news, honestly was worried that laptops where going to become as locked down as phones. Good to see that's not becoming the trend so far
I just hope it is also open in the hardware side, it would be great to see swapable ssd or even ram
@@braugarduno3024 hope framework can make it possible (globally)
Cause qualcomm knows the sales aint gonna be too good if they do it
I have waiting for this video forever since the launch of the Raspberry Pi 1 !
This is the best tech video and best news in the last 20 years. Better believe me.
why is it so ?? whats great in this ?
It's so beautiful. I'm not crying, you're crying!
I love how excited they are explaining and showing everything
This is excellent news.
If framework make a fully modular, fanless laptop with perfect linux support, then my life will be complete.
I still have high hopes for RISC V 😉
It needs time to catch up. Who knows, maybe 3-4 years?
@@TheBadFred I can wait :)
I have high hopes for whatever will give me a better deal! Cheaper, higher quality, better performance and battery life and OPEN SOURCE DRIVERS AND FIRMWARE!
@@MnemonicCarrier I cannot. An ARM laptop that comes with linux out of the box is still a huge improvement from buying an x86 windows laptop and hoping linux will work seamlessly in it
@@godnyx117 I don't think that. We are not going to get SD X elite for a cheaper price. Considering Qualcomm they are bit pricey and that too this Chip is comparable with M3. Microsoft may bring a Surface Laptop fully optimised for ARM. Just now I got to know about the Lenovo Yoga 7 coming with this SD X elite. If we can get a laptop with this Chip for $1000 it will be a great one.
Now I will seriously consider one of these if I need a new laptop
exciting! Now let's go crazy making great linux hardware :)
Hmmm. Linux support and full GPU acceleration? I may actually buy one of those. Will have to wait to see the build quality of the laptops though
Now we just need to get RISC-V CPUs that are just as powerfull.
Finally, no need for Asahi Linux!
Something portable and high-performance!
I would like this on mini-PCs and NAS'es too! 👍
if the mini pc could just be a phone with x elit arm with dex or hdmi or type c video out. oh! im talking about steam deck
The person you are interviewing, she looks very smart.
once Linux has full support I will buy it for sure
I'm thinking of picking up the Surface Pro 10 on arm later this year. I want to know if I can dual boot linux on it or not.
Very excited about this. Now very tempted to switch from mac m1 mac.
You can actually run Linux on M1 Macs btw! Most of the internal hardware is well supported already and the latest news is a Vulkan driver quickly shaping up (so that PC gaming becomes a viable option).
i hope it get as much as power efficient as m chips😊
Upstreamed arm platforms are especially appropriated
Does it have accelerates x86 emulation on Linux? for example so I can run x86 Docker containers - something I can do on my MacBook just fine
Was thinking to get Thinkpad z16 gen2. But think I might hold out for a more proper ARM based laptop.
only thing which made me happy this week
Honestly cant wait for a decent ARM based Linux laptop I might finally upgrade from my old Mid 2012 i7 Mac Book Pro as that thing runs Linux like a champ and refuses to die so its been very hard fopr me to just upgrade for the sake of upgrading
LINUX ON ARM!!! 😍😍😍
How about the status of the drivers, kernel headers/modules...
Closed or open? Don't get me wrong it's amazing, but you know how Linux users are
way better on no co-pilot
Kernel compiled in 9 mins that's like compiling hello world in rust
I hope a lot of work goes to the already amazing x86 emulators for ARM.
Maybe in the future we can also have full steam integration
Upstream to the Kernel and I will call it perfect
This is totally awesome I need!!!!
battery life is my main concern
My next Linux pc :). Retire my Amd T14 32G Gen 1
I worry about the quality of drivers on Linux.
It's 2024, not 2014
Years ago I had am account on Linaros test cluster for Software porting and still waiting to have a 8core/16gb test system without big/little architecture. They were fast. The nvidia oryn dev kits are still a bit pricey. So maybe it'll be a laptop in the end..
Finally!
Where is the obligatory Minecraft (Java) - with shaders - on Linux demo???
Is this a custom kernel module that I have to add or is this native one the arm version
It's built in like Android (also based on Linux kernel). ARM support is best.
yay for linux of desktop
Im even more excited than the time that apple revealed m1
Wish it released with day 1 Linux support
"Able" is indeed able, but his name is Abel Vesa - Linux Kernel Engineer at Linaro
I was waiting for this! 🐧
8:35 Hey from Geektillithertz :)
Heh, I make random appearances xD
But are the drivers open-source? Google provided only 3 years of software updates back when they were using QC chips for their Pixels, and if I remember correctly, their excuse was something like, "QC don't provide the driver updates after 3 years, so providing software update is meaningless." Won't this SD X1 be abandoned like that in a few years and you would either have to buy a new laptop or stuck with an old kernel/OS?
The general purpose CPU is a different business model from phones requiring (one would hope) Qualcomm to provide a different support model.
Notice how he said "we worked quite closely with qualcomm". Finally
i just want to know if the battery life still drains when putting the laptop to sleep
inner peace after watching this.
Legends ❤
It's time to use threeos systems.
Android + Windows + Linux.
So ARM chips are not only a blessing for Windows users, but also for Linux users. But I'll see how it actually performs when I get my hands on one.
Exciting!!
Go go go linux
Qualcomm's Microsoft exclusive agreement, was for Windows excpusivity not anything else. Microsoft was just locked to use Qualcomm ij laptops shipping with Windows.
I think the exclusive agreement had all kinds of directions, that only Qualcomm would be used by Microsoft, that Qualcomm would only ship Windows on all their laptop devices, and I guess that the agreement also had something in there about minimum pricing so that Microsoft could get a significant enough license fee per device and so that Qualcomm also could charge enough per processor that they sold. The problem with this kind of agreement is that it kept the sales very low, it did not Kickstart enough of a revolution in the laptop market as it should have, they weren't enough apps, they didn't even have Chrome, they had no video editing app, no Adobe suite, no music making apps, no nothing, meanwhile with the price was too high. I hope both Qualcomm and Microsoft have learned from their mistakes of the previous years and that they will not do the same again, this time Linux need to be fully supported on every single device, this time they need to encourage lower prices in a full range of different prices among the manufacturers, this time they cannot make this an exclusive with Qualcomm they also need two invite other chipmakers to support this platform, they need to have some Wi-Fi only and other with 5G, they need to fully support dual booting Linux + Windows, they need to also support triple boot with a Chrome OS if people might want that, some of these designs need to also be shipping with Chrome OS as the default but always make it easy to install a flavor of Linux that they use it might want to use.
Linux ❤️🖤
if they really add linux support then take all my money! im buying a snapdragon cpu laptop
Just let me know when fully working and take my money!
Thumbs up. Even though I'm now deaf from trying to EQ the sound in this video and boost the voices. That's a work for an ML model.
Sorry I just trusted the DJI Mic 2 microphones themselves, I thought they'd capture well enough audio, clear enough of background noise, but I wonder if I should use them with lapel microphones next time, to limit the background noise and improve clarity of the voice recording. Sorry about that! Just seems to quick and easy to use the DJI Mic 2 without a lapel mic attached! Perhaps I should've tested out DJI's background noise reduction algorithms too they have that function for the mic but I have decided to avoid using it as I wonder if they remove audio quality too when they do that noise reduction algorithm.
@@charbax Maybe you can do something in post? Anyway, that's for the next time.
I would love to buy one of this for building software
Also want to know how it would be installing some packages based on debian platforms
Very glad to see how good is linux growing, linux is everywhere
yoo🔥🔥🔥
I would spend a serious chunk of money on a Linux tablet running an efficient CPU (no noisy fans) and good battery life.
How’s the power management? Does it have phone-like active standby?
When I tried it on my 8cx Gen 3 power management was bad. Maybe it has changed in the few months.
What laptop(s) are these?
ThinkPad X13s on the left, reference Snapdragon X Elite laptop on the right.
@@CataclysmZA so ThinkPad X13 is also arm?
Ого , отличные новости 👍
I'll wait for a real review
it would have been nicer if you'd have just let them talk, your questions are largely confusing and aren't really relevant to what these people are working on.
shiny touchpad is eternal on thinkpads.
I want to know what the energy draw is for performance on these chips. Do they throttle on battery power? How long can you get from a full charge (from, say, a 70Whr battery)? The M-series CPUs sip power and outperform high end Intel chips. My wife's MacBook is fanless, completely silent, performs well, and lasts for about 3 or 4 days on a single charge. Will something like this be possible for Linux running on X Elite?
That’s the goal brother. With the Arm chips we shall probably get better battery life and better performance.
@@weiSane I really hope so. The last thing I want to do is leave Linux for MacOS.
@@MnemonicCarriercurrently my brand loyalty is to whoever can give me a product with good performance and longest battery and that’s Apple. If Linux on arm is great and we get good battery life and great performance on there too I reckon many of us developers currently using Macs may be consider jumping to Linux on arm. Exciting times ahead I only hope it’s as good as it’s being hyped up currently. It would be nice to enjoy the battery life and nice performance of Macs on a laptop running Linux.
Hopefully you’ll get to choose based on a few different configs.
@@RU-qv3jlThey are making lower spec Snapdragon X Plus also.
Good or bad, some of us will be on Intel for awhile.
arm is a monster consortium but they still need more of a hw ecosystem - they should have faster iteration - we shall see - the latest benchmarks were great
You can actually run Linux on M1 and M2 already. Look up the Asahi Linux project, which is reverse-engineering and writing drivers for that hardware. They already support most of the internal hardware and even have a full OpenGL driver (as in, all GL and GLES versions are supported and pass official conformance tests - miles better than what Apple provides).
Because of that, M1 and M2 devices can already run Fedora, as well as a bunch of other ARM Linux distributions.
Can you run stuff like smooth real-time 4K60 video editing in an app like Davinci Resolve on M1/M2 Linux? Is the GPU driver of M1/M2 Linux as good as the GPU driver in Mac mode?
@@charbax I'm not really sure, sorry. I don't have a Mac - I'm just quite interested in it all so I was closely following the development.
The GPU drivers on Linux are better in terms of feature support and correctness, but might not be fully optimized in certain areas yet. When people were benchmarking games, some of them ran better under Linux and some better under MacOS I think.
But besides OpenGL and GL ES, there's also Metal on MacOS and Vulkan everywhere else. These are lower-level APIs and a Vulkan driver will have to be fully developed for Apple Silicon before we can really start playing most Steam games there. (They are designed for x86 Windows primarily and either target Vulkan or DirectX, but then can still be run on ARM Linux with Vulkan thanks to DXVK | vkd3d, Wine and FEX)
Oh, and there's OpenCL which some Video editors can make use of. Linux (including on M1 and M2) is quickly improving its support since like a year ago or so, while Mac OS is trying to convert everyone to Metal and in the process of removing it.
Apple doesn't develop or use OpenGL. Basically nobody does these days as it's another layer over HW. These days, Vulkan, DirectX and Metal are used everywhere
@@ZhuJo99 That is straight up not true. All major operating systems support OpenGL, including mobile and desktop ones alike.
It is true that Vulkan, Metal and DX12 are lower-level than OpenGL. But that matters to driver devs, not users of these APIs (yes, in many cases you can "just" have a Vulkan driver and get OpenGL for free).
And it's true that Apple deprecated OpenGL on their platforms (to push everyone onto Metal). But only developers focusing on MacOS and iOS care about that and the effect is many cross-platform programs (games, but not only) will no longer work that well there.
But this all is irrelevant. There now exists an open source Vulkan implementation for Apple Silicon. It not only brings Vulkan 1.3, but is also officially conformant - since a few days ago. It was created in record time of one month in large part thanks to code sharing with the existing OpenGL driver (and with a new and shiny open source Vulkan implementation for Nvidia cards).
Finaly i wish support for arm on distro like debian or ubuntu be great and fedora to arm cpus and arm gpu in this case adreno (i think is name of snapdragon gpu) to for example video encode and decode record on obs with no lag on wayland session and for Some gaming and Linux dstros have a like a layer to run non arm programs with good performance أخيرا لقيت ناس تشغل لينكس على هذا المعالج الجامد إنشاءالله راح اشتري اسوس فيفو بوك 15 اس سناب دراغون لـ تخرجت و اركب ليه فيدورا و ديبيان لينكس و يشتغل تمام
Nice!
I noticed that both linux laptops are running on battery and both their batteries are at 100%
Oh this got my hopes up ! i thought linux would be hard to run on these due to some bullshit extra chip inside or some proprietary firmware thing. I already know linux runs great on ARM, but this might be a game changer
Qualcomm is doing upstream of linux drivers.
Oh yeah ⚡
They seem a bit sketchy on the linux platform, you show nothing because they have not succeeded.
Kalau bisa jalanin virtual device di genymotion dan tetap dianggap HP🤔 sesuatu banget, pasti banyak pengguna linux yg dinantikan adalah ini
Have you tried Linux Mint on it? If so, how well does it work?
wow, the constant movement of the camera from one side to the other is making me dizzy 🤢
The first (beta) I ran of Android was on HTC Windows CE phone (some Qualcomm 400 mhz processor)... and boot image was ofc Linux (setting up drivers)... and the OS was Linux also, but a java VM sort of variant... (which it is still sort of?)...
Sooo... Qualcomm ARM running Linux was 2010-2011'ish...
But anyway... this is linux hugging hardware fast.
Awesome!
---edit
Now work on RISC-V :-) get a little competition... Maybe ARM is getting to "high end", and RISC-V can take over as the even more low power but still capable ISA... compared to Intel/AMD... then someone needs to tell Nvidia that it's just too much power/energy and they need to do more with less :-) (might be software, might be AI) but it's just too expensive and too much power...🙂
I filmed a Qualcomm Arm Powered Linux Android laptop in 2009 ua-cam.com/video/SXq__YWVAew/v-deo.html I've been waiting all these 15+ years for them to get it right.. 😆
And how can we play x86 games from steam library??? I will never use ARM computer!!!!!
Emulation
@@justinb012 that sucks. It will not be 100% full speed and not all titles. I will never use ARM.
@@turbolenza35keep saying that bro
do you play games on U series processors?
my android phone has running linux for years
running and actually get things working are 2 different things. Your android phone can't actually do anything with that linux.
It's just a kernel and maintaining packages.
Which Distroy do they use?
looks like Fedora
Wow. 😯
I will ditch Intel and AMD for such laptop
Please make it smaller 7 inch..
👍👍👍
still can not choose Linux as OS on dell site for new XPS only M$ - shame on dell
Apple doesn't help with Linux. We must not buy MacBook