First Play: Echoes of the Eye - Ep. 11: Should I Just Quit?
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
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Follow me along for my first playthrough of Outer Wild - Echoes of the Eye! I found some secret places!? WHERE DO THEY GO?!
If you didn't already know; I play games partially with my feet using the Xbox Adaptive Controller. This is because I struggle to grip/use traditional control schemes due to my spondyloarthritis. The ship's controls in zero gravity are very challenging with many simultaneous inputs, so for this, I'm also playing using my KNEES (yes really! haha)
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1:39:00 - So satisfying when you finally got past the biggest obstacle: Your own bravery. It's like an 80's movie, you finally just yelled "I'm not afraid of you anymore!" and it worked.
I think your frustration is caused by the gaps between the streams, because you keep forgetting things you've alredy seen; you'll get what I mean if you watch through your playthrough of the dlc in a row. We enjoyed the base game for the same reasons you did, and watching your videos is still really fun.
"Never give up! Never surrender!" :)
Sad to hear you are not enjoying the game as much as I thought you would. I’m interested in hearing how the fact something was right in front of you the whole time made you slightly angry at it. One of my favorite things about the base game was that feeling of realization about something like the stars slowly going out as the loop continues or that I don’t need to find an item to get through ghost matter. But I can understand where your coming from, that anger of feeling that you’ve made things harder on yourself for “no reason” can be difficult. I’ll say though that the end of the dlc connects to the main game in a beautiful way and I hope that despite all the turmoil you must be going through that you to get to experience it.
I’m with you on your feelings with the game! I had to resort to hints at the end of base game, and I didn’t have the perseverance to do the launch/land/boat/artifact/doze/wander loop in the DLC a million times. I needed hints and the first time I saw the “solutions” to the codes I was like “really???”. So I finished the DLC with a bit of frustration and annoyance. And I found the base game reveal of the reason for doing the time loop much more impactful. On the other hand, after finishing the game with hints, it completely consumed me and I am loving watching other people play through it and react. Weird how it does that - like in my memory it is more enjoyable to remember playing than it was, like you forget the frustrating parts.
Honestly? Yes.
The point of videogames is to have a good time, there must be like centuries of gameplay with all of the videogames combined.
From all of those there must be like at least decades of good and enjoyable gameplay, so, imo life is too short to spend it on videogames you don't enjoy when you could just spend it in one you do enjoy.
Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy, the payoff from the reveal in the end IMO is worth it, it ties up with the main story surprisingly well, it's very beautiful (I cried) and the message is very deep, but it only makes sense if you see it with the context of remembering the story of the base game (which I don't think you do tbh).
"There's gotta be an easier way to do this".
There is, but I've only seen it been done once so it's not all that obvious. It involves a certain interactive something on that level that seem to serve no purpose, but if done right you get to skip the whole darkness navigation part. Spoiler below for that that "something" is, but you'll have to figure out how it works by yourself.
The elevator to the raft.
The entire DLC is really easy to complete if you know some secrets. Spoilers below
First, of course, is the shrouded woodlands which is meant for you to find out its shortcut. That being opening the way to the boat dock and then sleeping at a different fire and waiting for the damn to break and end the simulation for all of the owlks in that area.
Second, Starlit Cove actually can be done really easily but requires information that is hidden in its forbidden archive. I was initially brute forcing it using the same method as with the shrouded woodlands, which works, but time is very tight as the owlks only dissapear near the very end of the loop. But, if you die when going into the simulation, you never need to actually turn the lights off to reach the archive. If you happen onto this yourself, it makes this by far the easiest area.
Lastly, as you said, with the endless canyon the elevator lets you skip the stealth section after turning the lights out. Its still not without some danger but as this was already the easiest section to do the intended way imo since there is no simpler bypass, you really don't have to worry about much since the final stretch is safe so long as you follow the path you should have learned by the point you are trying to get to its forbidden archive.
@@Fa1seP0sitive The endless canyon is by far the easiest to bypass in practice, but require some thinking to come up with that solution. As mentioned, I've only seen it been done once this way, so 1/50 or so. 10 or so accidentally found the mechanics allowing you to observe first, a couple switched to easy mode, and remaining brute forced it by outmanouvering them.
If this is the first glitch you learn, the other two are much easier as well, and lets you find the elevator skip (invisible bridge) should you want to use this entry point to get to a raft.
I'm only halfway through this video, but I hear how you're feeling.
I always say: This game is here to serve me, not vice versa.
If you want, maybe you should let yourself off the hook and say "I am not going to force myself to follow my usual rule X!" (e.g., no hints). Maybe you can pick one trusted person in the Twitch chat and allow that person to give you advice or a suggestion.
I think a trusted person could get you past certain frustrations without actually giving you any spoilers.
Maybe, instead of asking the trusted person a specific question, you could ask them to make a judgment call on what information you need.
If you pick someone good, there's a really good chance that the information will be exactly what almost all the viewers wish they could tell you.
I understand the sour taste of the DLC. I had a bit of it as well. The base game was full of unique discoveries and exciting places to visit. In contrast the DLC is more of a linear puzzle box with scary bits.
Yes! This is the best way to describe it - a linear puzzle box! Makes so much sense when you say it like that, as the main reason I love the base game is because it is completely the opposite of that
I recently finished the DLC and have been watching your playthrough and really enjoying it. I definitely don't think the DLC is as good. I did enjoy it more than I was frustrated by it, but I was absolutely frustrated by it. I think the biggest issue is with the writing, which I also had with the base game but was a much smaller problem: connective tissue. There's a lot of overlap between the different aspects to the base game, with a lot of themes running around. With the base game, there needs to be just a bit more connective narrative between these elements to really bring it home, but there's enough you can get most of it without uncertainty.
In the DLC, however, there's a lot of missing connective tissue to the point I wonder if the mechanics of the game are really intended to support the main story or the themes, making it much more of a frustrating slog when it gets difficult. And the difficulty isn't about skill or knowledge, but just removing your ability to know what's going on. And, that's not really all that fun, at best. I suspect the mechanics were intended to be connected to the narrative because that's what the base game does, but I just don't see evidence for it in the game. You can see this when listening to people talk about the game, because interpretations are much more varied and more likely to make use of spurious or misinterpreted information than interpretations of the base game do. But even if it was more obviously connected, it's only be a silver lining to going through the aggravating scenarios the game puts you in.
I'm honestly impressed how well you've done with the a lot of the movement in the game, given your control scheme. Especially in the dark sections where it also becomes an obstacle course. I struggled with that while using a typical game pad, and can't imagine how much effort and practice it must take to be proficient with the controls.
I have to disagree. Although the DLC is certainly much more linear than Outer Wilds, the principles are the same. You explore, discover, and learn, and then you use what you've learned from the environment or from the local Ancient Aliens to take the next step. And if you need help, you check the Ship's Log and it tells you exactly what parts of whatever you've found are actually important as well as where they point to. And that's all the connective tissue the game actually needs. It's up to you to figure it out.
That said, the DLC is far more difficult than the main game, for one reason: you can't translate the Stranger's language. You have to rely on the burned reels instead, and this kind visual storytelling is much more subjective than the Nomai's text-based exposition. It's a lot easier to misinterpret, especially if you focus on the wrong details (which Kolo does, almost every time). However, some would say that this "show-don't-tell" idea is artistically richer. Others would just call it frustrating. The range of opinion on the DLC indicates that a lot of players interpreted the reels, the Stranger, and the aliens a lot more accurately than other players did (or they were better at challenging and adapting their interpretations in order to solve the puzzle), and that's why they had a better experience.
I think it requires a much more analytical approach than Outer Wilds, because you have to make assumptions AND be prepared to challenge them and test if they're right or wrong. But if you explore in a logical way, if you pay attention, and if you keep track of what you've done and what you've learned, it becomes much clearer and the narrative becomes a lot more satisfying. If you don't explore it in a logical way, it's far more confusing, because there's only one story here as opposed to lots of mini-stories scattered around a solar system. You can't just pick a direction and go, you have to start at the beginning and work your way around (hence why the water on the Stranger flows one-way, from the entrance in the River Lowlands towards the Reservoir).
This isn't to say that there is a _wrong_ way to play the game, because (as you can see in Kolo) bumbling around with no idea of what's going on eventually yields results if you persevere and 'brute force' the puzzles. However, I would say that's an _ineffective_ way to play the game. Not only does it take longer, it renders the narrative meaningless because the narrative hasn't been earned, it's been cheesed. It hasn't been found through hard work, it's been found by blind luck. And a game like Outer Wilds is only satisfying if you can figure it out yourself. Which is the DLC's fatal flaw-it was just too hard for some players to figure out.
But that doesn't make the DLC a bad game. It doesn't diminish it in any way. I'm glad this game exists and I'm glad it challenged me, and frustrated me, and kept me up at night. A lot of games would try to spoon-feed this kind of complex narrative, and I'd hate to see Outer Wilds' developers take that route. I want more games with this much thought behind them. I want more games like this one.
Back in the day I played Outer Wilds. After me beeing blown away by it (deeply vibed with the subtext of loss and inevitibility of "The End") i was hungry for more. But of corse you can only experience this game once. So i sought out someone that does a lets play, to relive the experience through the eyes of someone else. After watching a few minutes of people who i didnt vibe with I saw this redhead with the awkward smile on one of the thumbnails and naturaly proceded to bingewatch your entire Outer Wilds playthrough. I came for the hair and stayed for the soft voice and the caring soul. Watching your experience and love for this game tuched me just as much as the game itself, and empathy dictated that i shall have a lot of salty water flowing down my face when i watched you experience the ending.
Of corse I watched more of your work, like Journey to the Savage Planet and Subnautica, but lost track of you when the world started again after covid-19.
Some time after that the dlc came out and i was wondering if you played it. Sadly you did not, but that was okay, i knew about your health problems, so i just played it by myself. Here comes the first point of this story. I had a very similar experience to you, the repetitivenes was anoying and once the "stealth" parts of the game started i eventualy stoped playing. So your feelings toward this dlc are very valid, i feelt alot of the same.
Time continued passing and eventualy UA-cam informed me that a certain redhead with an awkward smile and a kind soul is playing Echoes of the Eye. It made me feel very happy and warm inside. And of corse when i saw you koloing your way to secrets i didnt find myself, i became eager and finished the dlc before finishing your videos. You pretty much took your artifact and reignited my candle of love for Outer Wilds, and a bit for the dlc.
(Second point of the story coming in) If you still feel like it was not realy worth it, setting up the adaptive controler and all that. I for one am very happy that you did it. And i want to say thank you that you went through the hassle of playing Echoes of the Eye. And even more importantly thank you for being you. Thank you for the things you do and for the words you say. And in the spirit of the words you say at the end of every stream i wanted to send a lot of appreciation and a little love your way. 💜
I think the virtual world in the DLC is just too scary and difficult to enjoy for many people. It is dark, no jetpack, no ship, no signal scope, no friends to meet, it can take a long time to return to a specific spot, you have to actively avoid enemies hunting you, ...
It just changes the game too much. It almost is an entire different genre at that point.
I mean, you make good points, but I think the main issue with the DLC (in this case I mean, I don’t necessarily think it’s an issue in all cases) is that or requires a lot more “recursive knowledge” than the base game, which allowed you to break the game up into discrete “packets” and play through the different planets at your own pace.
In this case, I think the fact that she Kolo wayed through some things left some gaps in that recursive knowledge and she doesn’t know what she’s missing, or even that she’s missing it.
I honestly feel like the ship log gives away too much information in this DLC.. I had no issues figuring things out because i did them in an orderly way, and played the game in succession without long breaks.
Never quit unless need to haha always move forwards
It really might not be the game for you. Which is sad for us fans, but it's no fun to see you unhappy, so neither you nor we get anything out of you forcing yourself to finish it.
Like that one person in your stream said, the DLC probably would have worked better for you as part of the main game. People have compared it to the Quantum Pilgrimage, both in scope and impact on the rest of the game.
You learn a few different rules about the Stranger and the dream world, and by applying them, you get to unravel a mystery.
But unlike the quantum rules, it's all in one (admittedly big) location, so if you get stuck, you can't go elsewhere to take your mind off of things. It's more linear.
In addition to that, I remember you getting really invested in the different characters and written narrative of the main game, and that part is just not present in the Stranger. The DLC does some really cool stuff with environmental storytelling, but again, that's different and it might not be what draws you in.
All that said, I still enjoyed watching you play, and if you do decide to power through to the end, I'd love to see it. Thanks for sharing your playthrough!
You've probably already made a decision, but all the points you made are perfectly valid. You're so close to the ending, but if you're really not enjoying it, maybe stop here and watch your favorite streamer play the ending.
Hard to see you so frustrated with the game. Understandable however. Sounds like the Kolo way found its way, but at a great cost.
Maybe a tiny bit of preparation would have made this game a better experience for you?
Still, it has been wonderful for us, and I'm glad you could share your experience either way!
As for the preparation; Kolo's playthrough of the original game was back in 2020, so a good amount of information was lost since then. It was often suggested that Kolo should play the original game once again before heading into the DLC, or watch a playthrough of someone else to catch up on what she might have forgotten. But in the reality of running a channel and playing games being the full time job that's just not feasible in any appropriate amount of time, and especially not with a game that is per default so inaccessible to many players.
Kolo explains this in detail either in the end of this episode or the last one, but just to give some perspective on the difference between what a regular player might do and what's possible for a streamer.
@@moozipan I was thinking preparation as a small collection of spoiler-free hints and features to remember and keep in mind before playing (rather than replaying the full game). Such as, how to use the signalscope, reminder of your scout abilities, ship log, etc.
Something short yet useful so Kolo would be less likely to waste hours and hours on puzzle that should have taken seconds to get through.
@@blitzprogthe way you worded that was a bit more judgemental than it needed to be
@@tofolcano9639 You're probably right, that was a bit too much. Sorry about that! Edited some of it out.
1:53:30 I agree with this! It was my experience as well
OK. I just watched the rest of the stream. You're probably in good enough shape now that you wouldn't gain as much from picking a trusted advisor and allowing that person to give you information.
I believe you pointed out that in the base game, there are a lot of writings, full of personality. And you even have friends you can talk to. And please give you several things - a nice, human touch, some virtual companionship, and also information. I had been thinking you could get a little of all of that by picking a trusted advisor and having them take away your greatest pain points.
That person still could possibly save you a couple hours of frustration, but I know UA-cam is behind the Twitch recordings, so you are now even further along that I am aware of. For all I know, you have finished the game already. :-)
Edit: I guess I haven't watched all of the stream. I've watched up to the point where you stop playing. I still have to watch your 20 minutes of debrief at the end.
I'm surprised you haven't played hogwarts legacy. Its definitely your kind of game
It's also a game that financially supports JKR in her anti-trans campaigns, and that was originally created by an antisemitic alt-right lead designer, so that's not gonna happen in a million years.
What Moozi said 💯
@@HelloItsKolo for some reason their comment isn't visible