I’m playing on a 4080 oled and the game feels sluggish, it’s hard to pin down to why, it just feels like the pacing of the game was wrong from the start. The tracks look like shit unless the weather is perfect, the cars look great on the outside and absolutely shit on the inside, very lazy texturing and sharp angles, not to mention the worst mirrors I’ve ever seen in a game since TOCA which came out in 1999.
I don't quite understand why Forza devs always like to mess with the kerbs. For me the worst example is Spa, where some kerbs in real life are raised but in Forza they are just flat, which totally kills the realism.
The nordschleife aswell the curb on the first corner is a joke thats supposed to mlbe nearly flat the carrousel corners are absolutely smooth wich is absolutely not the case in real life people with exspensive cars take the outside line on those corners just because they are known for breaking all kinds of things on your car .. forza is a joke
@@codemy666 I agree completely. Forza isn't meant to be realistic. It's a console game that's meant to be accessible to everyone. They're definitely not out there laser scanning tracks.
Great video! looking at track details is very important to me. One thing I learned from the Digital Foundry video on Spa, is they seem to re-use a lot of the track model from FM7. Then they have this fancy new tree system. They remove the old (accurately placed trees) and just spam these new trees in vaguely the right position.
My first impression as I saw Forza's version of the Nordschleife was that they totally lifted the imagery surrounding the Nürburgring from the Microsoft flight simulator.
11 місяців тому+82
I'm no botanist but those tree species don't look like they'd belong in a German forest. It actually looks like if Nurburgring was in Oregon or Washington state, with a Forza Horizon party slapped on it.
That would make a lot of sense, they likely did conceptual photography and modeling of trees in the states. Then these tree assets were used on everywhere they needed trees, which makes sense to do, but clearly has limitations when attempting to 1:1 imitate areas around the world
Feels the same with many games these days. The new WRC rally game for instance, if you look at Finland it looks like it's spain or USA, not even close to Finland with the biome/flora and color palette in general.
i hate FM just as much as the next guy - but the *stock* trees in AC are god awful, and these are miles ahead. however the 3d trees in AC are much better sad for a game in 2023 to be outdone by a game that came out in 2014 (early access in 2013)
I love Ac and acc , but the track in fm is far superior in every way possibile than the first Ac , i speak for console side series x , i don't know on pc or moda, doesn't matter for me , i only have series x
@@spiyder I'll take AC's 2D trees over FM's trees any day: They are easier on the eyes, they are accurate in terms of position and they are accurate in terms of species (lol, never thought i'd complain about tree species in a racing game but FM made me do it). The problem with FM's trees is that even though they are 3D, they look god awful. If you look close, you can spot that they are basically a bunch of 2D panes cobbled together and they cast these horribly dark shadows on themselves that makes them look like they came out of Satan's asshole.
Still one of my favorite versions of the track in any sim. I've done a ridiculous number of laps around the Nordschleife in Assetto Corsa over the years. And if I had to choose between driving the AC version or this Forza version, I'd choose the AC version 100% of the time. It's not even close.
I just wrote a comment ranting about why the eff are "crowd density" being compared, on a physics sim game when you can compare...idk...track realism? Car physics? Track detail? Blasted it out calling it a blatant diversion tactics. It's like having a Ferrari 488 pista, compared to Lamborghini Countach....then going on to compare "how shiny the windscreen is". Or "how clean the air cap on the tyre is". Complete bollocks. It's...a....physics...SIM game. But the bimbo is gonna compare trees in the background and the crowd. Bec he knows what happens when you compare the real stuff....HE LOOSES HIS MICROSOFT FANGIRLS
The trees feel overscaled in Forza which makes it feel very claustrophobic. And as you pointed out, there needs to be more clear vista views over the landscape between breaks in the forest. The grass needs to be more vibrant and the tree colors need to be a deeper green.
Totally agree with you, I'm a bit disappointed with FM Nordschleife track. Trees in Watkins Glen and other tracks looks really beautiful, but in Nordschleife it doesn't represent real track in some places. It is much more trees then it should be.
if you drive in mid Late Summer on a Trackday on the NOS you feel really like in the jungle! But Quality of trees are a Reder Problem. NOS is really a problem for every Engine. So FM is not very polished and optimised so i think they tone it down for the NOS.
Forza has completely messed up treelines in most tracks, they definitely just added random trees outside of the road to cut on development time instead of recreating the proper look
It's true. There is a special options in game text config where you can add more grass + trees on the all tracks. It meens that trees are random mostly in FM 2023. But it's not a problem for me. My problem that some trees look really bad. I use ultra graphic with 140% 2K resolution, but tree textures look like lowres with bad colors. Trees in GT7 not the best, but they look normal. Trees in FM can look great, but there are about 10% of trees with bad flat branches or without shadows or terrible color... I just spent hours to find the way to fix it.
Eh, I like it. I don’t play Forza for 100% realism, I think this is something the sim racing community needs to understand, Forza is not a out and out simulator in the same way things like AC and iRacing are designed to be, it is a controller first track racing game designed to bring people into the hobby by being accessible first while keeping it in the realms of realism. I think the tree argument is it bit of a farce, I think it looks good and seeing them fly past at 150mph and ads to the tension of threading your car through this thin ribbon of tarmac. I don’t really care about the banners, they are trying to add a bit of something to otherwise blank space, that’s the designers prerogative, you can not like it but to say it’s not realistic is neither here nor there. There are valid arguments to be made over FM, as a FM content creator myself I have highlighted many of those in my videos a number of times, however these are things that are broken in the game or features missing from previous Forza titles, not complaining that FM doesn’t drive like iRacing or what are, in the grand scheme of things, minor issues in terms of realism. Would you complain all star golf doesn’t play like PGA tour as well?
@Steel_Warhammer - then why did Turn 10 say "built from the ground-up" again? The fans aren't asking Forza to be next iRacing. They want it to honor its word.
Most are just Jumping on the hate-bandwagon together with their favorite UA-camr. I dont know why the algoritme sometimes randomly brings me here to Random Callsign but everytime it does its such a negative video about just truly nothing special. Even this UA-camrs must know what FM is aiming for and for which fanbase but just fully rejects it anyway, for the clicks probably.
Just wait till you see the night version of the track. It's hilariously bad. They put lights all around the track, like it's the Singapore GP....lol. No need for headlights, as the track is lit like a stadium. It's awful on so many levels. EDIT: Also, they're called "sectors". not "segments"... See ALL other sim titles for examples of this. GT7 gives you sector times (and not tucked up into the farthest reaches of your vision (i.e top right corner)), and most all sim (and sim-cade titles) do as well. So, I'm not sure which games you are referring to, when you say "more games need to do this", but maybe you know something I don't (which is certainly likely)....lol Great video, though. I never quite realized just how many trees Turn 10 implemented. It really does look like they took the Nordschleife out of Germany, and transplanted it into the jungles of South America. I have heard it WAS to avoid draw distance issues, but then again, if the game was programed properly (and wasn't on the Xbox Series, honestly) they wouldn't need to go to such lengths....lol Turn 10 dropped the ball HARD with this one. From career mode (what were they thinking!!!???) to graphics, to physics (floaty as hell, like usual), there's hardly anything nice to say about it, and I'm generally a Forza fan. Oh well.... *Fires up PS5 and GT7*
Those christmas trees are on every track. I can see in front of me how microsoft thought they was god and was trying to make the tracks look better than in real life but in the end looking like it´s sarcasm cause there is no christmas trees on the tracks in real life. Maybe the trees are making the performance worse cause vegetation is quite expensive. This ended up like starfield in the bin.
Let me start off by saying I've never driven Nordschleife in real life, I have, however, raced it in just about every racing game and watched 1000s of hours of real racing over the years on Nordschleife. That being said, I find this video a little over critical. I've been a huge critic of Forza Motorsport 2023, still am, but I have very few issues with this rendition of Nordschleife. The trees and foliage change season by season and year by year. The flags and festival events around the track change daily. You can drive the track in September of 2019 and then again in July of 2024 and have completely different foliage, track side objects, and banners. I think Turn 10 nailed the "Green Hell" feeling that Nordschleife is notorious for. The curbing complaints are a little ridiculous to me, unless you go to the track physically and laser measure the curbing, then find a way to do it in game, I just can't get to upset about that. My only issue with the track is the added flood lights around the track, Nordschleife has always been pitch black around several sections of the track, now there is a floodlight on every corner, unless those floodlights are actually new to the track, I don't like them. I stopped playing this game a month after launch, Nordschleife has got me playing again, and I'm having a blast on it. I think things like AI, car customization, puddles on tracks, online rammers, and the lack of a real single-player career mode are much larger issues than a tree being in the wrong place, or a banner that wasn't in that spot on July 19th, 2017. Forza Motorsport 2023 has more issues than I could have imagined when it was announced, and a lot of reasons to be upset, I could make a 10 hour video on my issues with this game, but at the same time I feel people have become overly critical of this game for minor reasons, but give games like GT7 and Assetto Corsa passes for stuff FM2023 gets crucified for. Mabye, I lack the near autistic levels of track detail retention people online seem to have, but the track plays great and looks gorgeous on my XSX.
We aren't talking about "some" trees. All of them are incorrect and killing the natural vibe of the track . I go to the nords twice each year for a few days . It's just lazy copy pasta done in a rush in favor of the series S (hitbox) .
@Antidepressiva1980 I guess i just don't see it. Yeah, I agree the trees are thicker, but it's not a deal breaker. The track still feels like Nordschleife to me, and I don't have an issue with the trees, but you've actually been there, so you would know better. You could nitpick this track in almost every game, but for some reason, it's only Forza who gets hate when it's not a 1:1 perfect rendition of a track that constantly changes. Maybe if I was able to physically visit the track, I would feel the same as you. Unfortunately, I can't visit anytime soon, but I 100% plan on going in the next few years. If I remember this conversation when I finally get to see the track in person, and if that experience makes me hate FM2023s version, I'll be sure to eat Crow for this comment, lol.
It`s just about clicks here. It`s very trendy to overanalyzing Forza. You will get al lot of clicks from playstation children. That`s all. I have both games an prefer Forza in terms of look and light, GT in terms of physics and penalty system.
The track in the night looks really good, tree's are a bummer but not a deal breaker for me wouldn't say is the worst iteration of nords honestly. As long as the trees are outside the track and not in the middle I'm good I guess 😂
So extra trees, a few high curbs, and a few other slight inaccuracies make it the worst Nordschleife? Idk man, I see just as many things wrong in other titles. At the end of the day, most modern games depict this track fairly accurately, different styles, times of day, seasons, scanning all make them a little different. I hate on Forza for all the "built from the ground up" nonsense they tried selling us on but IMO, this track is decent.
It's easily the worst. iRacing, GT7, AC, Automobilista 1&2 all have a more accurate representation of the track with correct curbs, trees, banking and none of the tacky shit like the random flags, balloons, etc.
@@FirstName69 I raced all you mentioned except Automobilista 1. I'm not a fan of the Forza tacky shit either, especially the flags, but iRacing's version has a track surface that is unnaturally smooth, almost no bumps, even on the karusell. Automobilista 2 looks just about the best IMO but still has wrong trees. GT7 makes the track look too manicured and green. Also wrong trees. Point is, all are imperfect but we're to the point where we gotta nitpick where a tree is or the height of one or two curbs. Forza has been a dumpster fire but the Nord is by far the least of its problems.
Not only are there too many trees, but the trees are also so much taller than they are IRL, and it just ruins all the scenery. And T10 gonna T10 by changing all the kerbing. All the kerbs you already take on the Nords are correct, but all the kerbs you shouldn't take have been flattened. Only way to explain it would be they are making the track easier for arcade and controller players, which is fine since of course that's Forza's target audience, but even GT4 on the PS2 had more accurate kerbing and better environment. It's small details, but it kills the whole vibe of the track. You can't take a track known for its dangerous layout, brutal kerbs, beautiful forest, and scenic mountains and adjust the layout and kerbs to make it easy and block off the forest and mountains with massive trees and expect people to not be unhappy about it.
Trying this track I was reminded of just how strange the physics are. The cars are so lazy and unresponsive on turn in. Nordschleife really highlights that, Flugplatz felt like it was pretty much rng if the car decided to turn or not lol.
Without a proper tuning setup the cars feel off , true. Was a forza problem for ages and still continues. Stock tire psi for example is way too high on every car in the game ! Either you adjust the setup to a more life like state or you'll face the swimming understeer chaos that these stock tunes are. Sadly but it is what it is.
@@Antidepressiva1980 Yea, I figured the default setups probably weren't good. But it just feels like a fundamental tyre model flaw. Sad thing is that otherwise it doesn't feel terrible to drive, and I didn't expect Forza to become the king of racing sims either. But it isn't enjoyable with how odd the tyres are.
It could be the steering lock. Forza doesn't seem to automatically set a soft steering lock based on the car, even race cars with 480° or 540° steering lock irl still use the full steering lock of the wheel, be it 1080° or 900° or whatever. I found this out when I was checking out Nordschleife a couple of days ago, after manually matching the steering lock, the car feels a lot more responsive on turn in.
*cough* now take the bulletpoints of the curbs and stuff, and visit Motorsport 7, if you still have that game installed... This map is basically a direct port from motorsport 7, with added crap around the track.
I just realized this but the reason why this track looks so wrong here is because personally I'm used to how it looks in plenty of other games while in Forza. It looks vastly different. It's the same with how Laguna Seca in The Crew 2 is cursed but that game has the entire USA map to blend in with.
Colour coding though is really identical to real life and i love the quality of soil on the banks would love to see it in the rain if it would make mud like forza 7
The Party Zones are really spot on when big events hit the NOS. Also the Tree Densitiy in Mid-Late Summer is also look lke in FM. So it may be a scan from this time.
The party zones might be correct to a degree but the trees on the other hand are copy pasta to reduce distant views in favor of the Xbox Series S (hitbox) . They are incorrect af and killing the whole track vibe .
Yes so its not the correctest Version in Gaming when it comes to the trees but the overall vibe is brilliant and it feels really lively and not so lifeless ond blank than in the sims he mentioned. The best looking NOs in Racing actually.
Also ich wohn da direkt um die Ecke und im Spätsommer ist der Bewuchs schon sehr stark und kommt dem wie in Forza schon sehr nahe. Auch wenn die Baumlinien natürlich nicht akkurat sind. Und ja die NOS sieht in Forza besser aus als in AC mit Mods! Schatten, Objektdetails und Menge gibt es so nunmal in AC nicht so wie hier. Es wirkt einfach viel lebendiger.
Quiet literally just made a comment on how the same rowed trees out in the distance when driving Nordschleife in GT7 drove me nuts. Looks like Forza is not all that great when it comes to trees either. I'm running GT7 on PS4 pro tho, maybe theirs a diff?
I regularly hike along the Nordschleife. You can walk the entire route and watch the cars. Great for hikers. Walking downhill gives you a special relationship with the route and helps you to understand the route (e.g. gradients). Diving into the fox tube is particularly impressive.
I reinstalled the game just to test this track, I know it like the back of my hand since I’ve driven the track since I was 6. The roads have no feel, the bumps and curves are innacurate. The roads are too wide, they didnt put in all the blinds from the real track, and the blinds they did are too wide. It took me YEARS to find the perfect line, using the ACCURATE version of the track and this game just throws it in your face? These game developers are NOT car guys, they are money hungry. The physics in the game are terrible, and god forbid you drive without any assista and manual clutch shifting? How does the character miss 3-4? It takes a whole second and a half to shift! Needless to say, i reuninstalled, again. Thank god the game is free.
Honestly I agree with your issue about too many trees, it’s so out of place that I think I’m on a different track or a alternate version of the Nurburgring especially after the drop into the right hander (forgot the name I believe eschbach) and onto that somewhat of a straight it opens up from the trees and then goes back and I’m there like “is this a new section?” When it’s all the exact same and then I crash over and over because I’m not expecting it to be like I’m in a forest I’m expecting it to be on the edge of a forest with the trees
1:58 lidar is laser scanning. Lidar (/ˈlaɪdɑːr/, also LIDAR, LiDAR or LADAR, an acronym of "light detection and ranging"[1] or "laser imaging, detection, and ranging"[2]) is a method for determining ranges by targeting an object or a surface with a laser and measuring the time for the reflected light to return to the receiver. Lidar may operate in a fixed direction (e.g., vertical) or it may scan multiple directions, in which case it is known as lidar scanning or 3D laser scanning, a special combination of 3-D scanning and laser scanning.[3]
What gets me is, how much work obviously goes into creating such a large track, but then they decide that all the trees have exactly one and the same color. Compare that to Maple Valley...its lke 2 different games.
Do you guys remember the Forza Motorsport trailers where they focused on the wildlife and trees and how good they made it all look? Nothing like that in the game at all and they always claim that these scenes are taken from in game footage. I think Turn 10 have become dishonest.
The problem isn't the devs, it's Microsoft's stupidd rules where they give devs a contract where they work for 18 months with no benefits, then spend 6 months on unpaid leave and a chance to extend their contract. If extremely lucky they'll get a full time contract so what ends up happening is that senior staff end up loosing their contract and devs don't have time to make it as accurate as possible. Then other devs have to go and try to pick up their work or start from a point where they have no idea what previous employees did.
The worst Nordschleife?! Clickbait! If you nitpick other games I'm sure there is alot to criticise as well. But people just enjoy stomping on Forza and xbox games in general. I think they gave the track a good vibe to make it feel alive and not boring. As long as the track layout is pretty accurate is fine by me. No game will be able to do it 100%.
Shocker, it's as if turn 10 puts the bare minimum amount of money and effort into these titles now. Only to cash grab the rest of the profit.... It's because they do XD. I hope Turn-10 and Bethesda both go bankrupt, and I hope motivated and passionate studios pickup what's left of these worthless studios. I miss the old fallout and forza titles, they deserve to be reincarnated into modern titles on modern hardware. Both studios fail to give later generations the same gaming experience us older generations had. We truly lived through something special in the late 90s to late 2000s, gaming studios actually put passion into their work back then. Now it's hard to find a passionate studio that isn't indie or low budget.
This is an opinion from a Japanese person, but in conclusion, I don't see the point in comparing it to other games. For example, "GT7" GT7 was criticized a lot for its behavior when it was first released, but it got better as time went on. (Update) Considering the current era, I personally think that the game should not be released as a complete game, but as an incomplete game and then completed with an update. So it's okay to wait. Also, I like Forza Motorsport because it has its good points.
But it is with these criticisms that they are able to be improved upon. GT7 would not have gotten such an improvement in handling physics, if it weren’t from the huge amount of info produced by players on what feels wrong etc. And, even then, Polyphony for example, have shown to be studio to really look into the feedback given (at least in terms of driving physics. They still haven’t improved single player). Meanwhile turn 10 has shown very little, and has even shown bad faith, with the downgrade in graphics and over selling of the game. Forza can still have a chance in becoming good. However, they have to put in the effort like other studios do
Damn, those are some good looking trees 🤩 segment scores are annoying, hopefully we can disable that. Looks like one of the best Nordschleifes I've seen in any game. Can't wait!!
I mean yeah I get it, when you compare side by side it don’t look as good, but like, it literally don’t matter 🤷♂️ like, I’ve been driving this the last few days and it’s incredible, when I’m driving 150mph I don’t even see the trees, I’m busy actually racing, which for me is the ultimate point, the physics and overall quality of the track makes it amazing, the best simcade imo for driving alone imo, grand tourismo is very nice aesthetically but the actual physics and way further from real life than forza, the cars actually feel like cars
However, if you're planning to drive on the track IRL, that's where you'll notice the flaws of the virtual track. You need to know when to brake, where to brake, when to turn, and anticipate. The details matter as they also serve as useful markers, otherwise you may end up on the barriers... or worse.
Nah, it would be problem if you want switching to real simracing in the future or even real life. Because then you will adjusting your muscle memory of braking point again.
@@kotarojujo2737 not a problem, you just adapt, plus it’s very close to irl, the main difference is the elevation change, but no game can correctly simulate how intense the elevation change is irl
@@pmayo7894 I don’t need it to be perfect to practice, whatever the minor differences you just adapt, it actually don’t matter, and this is true no matter the game, no game 100% captures what the track actually feels like
when you think about it, maybe Turn 10 wasn't lying whenever they said each Forza games after 4 being built from the ground up, the ground is getting drier and drier it became a drought.
because people prefer looking at a polished turd, than an accurate depiction of a track... apparently. Or they are just huffing massive amounts of copium really.
@@leonardovazquez5984 I hope nobody takes him seriously. He is using the most disgusting strategies how to make views. He is spreading misinformations and controversial opinions that he doesn’t believe himself, but he know people will get angry and comment under his videos or they will tell about those stupid videos to their friends and he will be getting more views that way. Same strategies are used by the worst magazine tabloids.
@vvs6433 I could tell what type of channel he had after only 1 or 2 videos. He isn't interested in informing viewers or entertaining them, he's there for clicks and money by any way possible. He doesn't even hide it either...but people are dumb.
As a German living not too far away from the course, the trees strike me as odd because they don't look really German, while those from the video footage feel much more "at home".
It’s funny as they seems to put out new tracks as if there was no competition, like it’s 2007. Various games came with lasers can precision and accurate placement of everything and since T10 is in the sim game (even if we all know this term in 2024 don’t really fits to what T10 do) they really need to step up their game.
So it's just the same old shit with a little bit of new unnecessary shit sprinkled on top. What a huge surprise lol. I believe they claim the tracks to be laserscanned but... i'm not that convinced. Most of them look off, and especially feel off. Going through a corner you don't end up where you would normally expect to end up at
With ACC's upcoming Nordschleife, fully scanned, I really can't wait to see u talk about it. Or even more: compare it to this built-from-the-ground-up Nord in FM8
Does anything about Forza not suck balls? What a fucking joke of a game…since day 1. Next gen console - first gen game. Total embarrassment. Played this for all of 1 month back in November and was like f-this nonsense.
I really dislike the complete overuse of trees everywhere. And all of the vegetation is basically the exact same color as well. In real life the trees have a range of colors and shades of green. Not just a wall of the exact same shade of green for all vegetation on the entire track. I will take the version of the Nordschleife in OG Assetto Corsa over the version in the new Forza Motorsport 100% of the time. It's actually shocking how completely the fumbled the bag when it came to Forza Motorsport. I don't know what they were thinking. Basically every single aspect of the game is messed up in some fundamental way. I've put hundreds of hours into previous Forza games. Both motorsport and horizon. Going all the way back to like Forza Motorsport 4. And I uninstalled the new Forza Motorsport after playing ~4 hours. It was that bad. The basic act of just driving in that game feels terrible. Idk how they made the physics model feel so bad, but Forza Horizon 4 and 5 feel like they have more realistic physics than the new Motorsport. Even if they do give you insane amounts of front end grip. The physics in the new motorsport feel like they were made by someone who's never actually driven a car, much less pushed on one the track. They basically spent all this time making a much worse version of Forza Motorsport 7. It's just baffling to me how they could get it so wrong.
the assetto corsa scan is the highest density one available to the public so far, speaking from a laser scan to final product perspective. the acc one should theoretically be even better.
Hey rc, can you do a video on racecraft online for ams2 please. It's an awesome service very similar to Iracing just without the absurd costs. You are one of the most honest sim UA-camrs whose opinion carries the most. I think your integrity would really help boost their racer numbers.
I am so glad I watched this video. I was getting so confused as to why it felt so damn wrong to race on the Nordschleife in this game. I have raced this track for years before hand, and thought my age was finally getting to me. 26 is a little young for onset of dementia, but that is what it was feeling like lol.
They are using a map from an older fm title thats why it looks the way it does. There are just some things changed, but its mostly just a bit of a remaster.
5.35 no they are not on the track. and the flags are indeed really ugly. as a german i can say : we are not a jungle and the track is not realistic. I saw that they used wrong assets from older Forza games.. and the Assetto Corsa trees are really the cherry on top. No matter what the current devs touch, they screw it up.
I just bought a used PS5 to play GT7 and god, that game is so beautiful, not just aesthetically but also physics wise, just an amazing simcade experience. I can't believe we have been supporting Forza for so many years and they just keep screwing us over.
Can U compare Forza Motorsport 4 and Forza Motorsport 7 Nordschleife ? Driving FM4 my lap time was 8:56, in FM7 it was 7:57. 2005 Ford GT , same car similar play style, 1min in lap times difference. Is it track any different ?
Without a flying lap these times can’t be compared. 4’s start line is on the straight while 7’s is at one of the slowest parts of the track. You lost half the straight’s worth of acceleration.
While I do agree that the trees are sub par in appearance (I feel AMS2's trees are among the best looking IMO), it's not the most pressing matter for Turn 10 at the moment I'd wager - I think they have MUCH bigger fish to fry so to speak). Regards to the walls of trees, I do wonder if it's like mentioned in the video, for performance purposes? The engine is Turn 10's own proprietary 'Forza Tech', so I am not sure how this stacks up to Unreal, Polyphony Digital's engine, Kuno's AC engine, etc.. If the comment about curb height discrepancies is accurate, this would be a bigger concern for me. Once I gather the courage to boot this game up again, I'll give this track a spin. Overall, in the grand scheme of things, it looks like it will do the job well enough. My hopes are more pinned on ACC's upcoming version!
I'm the same, for performance I could forgive the trees but the kerbs being wrong seems off to me, with the way track are scanned an built into games it seems very lazy or incompetent to miss something that obvious.
I had the exact same thoughts when I drove for the first time, but my basis of comparison is other racing titles; namely Assetto Corsa, which is quite old now. The PS2 era assets also don't help at all.
The same thing that they do with the cars reusing models from the Xbox 360 they do with the tracks aswell, i'm a Forza player over 12 years and i can tell truly this is the exact same nordschleife from the old X360 days!!
nitpick trees with me by pressing like and subscribe
Saw this video. May go along way to explaining why Forza is the way it is. ua-cam.com/video/8WG_cBQu01Y/v-deo.html
From one of the terrain artists.
It's not a nitpick, looks like rubbish compared to automobilista 2
It looks like the track is lazy scanned. :)
I’m playing on a 4080 oled and the game feels sluggish, it’s hard to pin down to why, it just feels like the pacing of the game was wrong from the start. The tracks look like shit unless the weather is perfect, the cars look great on the outside and absolutely shit on the inside, very lazy texturing and sharp angles, not to mention the worst mirrors I’ve ever seen in a game since TOCA which came out in 1999.
@@davannagle450its nitpicking...
I don't quite understand why Forza devs always like to mess with the kerbs. For me the worst example is Spa, where some kerbs in real life are raised but in Forza they are just flat, which totally kills the realism.
Forza absolutely ruined Spa.
@@jsmturismotrue
The nordschleife aswell the curb on the first corner is a joke thats supposed to mlbe nearly flat the carrousel corners are absolutely smooth wich is absolutely not the case in real life people with exspensive cars take the outside line on those corners just because they are known for breaking all kinds of things on your car .. forza is a joke
I mean yes, but at the same time if you're looking for realism and going for forza then you kinda had it coming
@@codemy666 I agree completely. Forza isn't meant to be realistic. It's a console game that's meant to be accessible to everyone. They're definitely not out there laser scanning tracks.
This makes Gran Turismo 4's Nordshliefe pretty impressive with how accurate it was for the weakest console of it's generation.
this give me an idea
sim, por favor! ahah@@randomcallsign
It is one of the best Nordschleife ever made in racing games.
Do it@@randomcallsign
honestly, it was laser scanned back then, and you can see how similar it is to the GT7 version
Great video! looking at track details is very important to me. One thing I learned from the Digital Foundry video on Spa, is they seem to re-use a lot of the track model from FM7. Then they have this fancy new tree system. They remove the old (accurately placed trees) and just spam these new trees in vaguely the right position.
Yup, "built from the ground up" reuses track model.
Bruh you surely could fix it in less than 2 days, but i guess they dont like the horrible idea of HIRING PEOPLE 😂😂😂😂
My first impression as I saw Forza's version of the Nordschleife was that
they totally lifted the imagery surrounding the Nürburgring from the Microsoft flight simulator.
I'm no botanist but those tree species don't look like they'd belong in a German forest. It actually looks like if Nurburgring was in Oregon or Washington state, with a Forza Horizon party slapped on it.
Nürburgring in FM 2023 looks like it is in California.
Yup.
Wrong shape... mostly too tall and wrong colours.
Shocking.
That would make a lot of sense, they likely did conceptual photography and modeling of trees in the states.
Then these tree assets were used on everywhere they needed trees, which makes sense to do, but clearly has limitations when attempting to 1:1 imitate areas around the world
Feels the same with many games these days. The new WRC rally game for instance, if you look at Finland it looks like it's spain or USA, not even close to Finland with the biome/flora and color palette in general.
I'd rather have 2D trees that are accurate and fit the atmosphere than these pine trees that they are spamming on every track
So ...
No Jimmy Broadbent tree?
Better performance, better Immersion... seems fair
Yeah FM literally made the Nordschleife forest look like an overgrown post apocalyptic world
Bros mad about trees in a racing game 🤦🏻♂️ if you’re going fast enough you aren’t paying attention to trees bro
@@SRTyler392 i'm not MAD 😆
When the trees look worse than those in Assetto Corsa, which is now a fairly old game, you know there's a problem.
i hate FM just as much as the next guy - but the *stock* trees in AC are god awful, and these are miles ahead. however the 3d trees in AC are much better
sad for a game in 2023 to be outdone by a game that came out in 2014 (early access in 2013)
I love Ac and acc , but the track in fm is far superior in every way possibile than the first Ac , i speak for console side series x , i don't know on pc or moda, doesn't matter for me , i only have series x
@@spiyder I'll take AC's 2D trees over FM's trees any day: They are easier on the eyes, they are accurate in terms of position and they are accurate in terms of species (lol, never thought i'd complain about tree species in a racing game but FM made me do it). The problem with FM's trees is that even though they are 3D, they look god awful. If you look close, you can spot that they are basically a bunch of 2D panes cobbled together and they cast these horribly dark shadows on themselves that makes them look like they came out of Satan's asshole.
@@FirstName69 Satan's asshole. You had me on that one😂😂
@@bratosin1 you better be talking about in looks, and not in feel.
It's like they modelled it from fish-eye go-pro footage
I wouldn't even be surprised
this genuinely might be true
This is the perfect way to describe it haha
Assetto's Nordschleife is almost 9 years old. it was in the Dream Pack 1 DLC that came out in March of 2015. Yes, we are old.
Still one of my favorite versions of the track in any sim. I've done a ridiculous number of laps around the Nordschleife in Assetto Corsa over the years. And if I had to choose between driving the AC version or this Forza version, I'd choose the AC version 100% of the time. It's not even close.
Forza nordschleife looks so narrow compare to realife, and the visibility when driving out some corner is just so bad
Probs the FOV.
always been a problem in forza. gotta squint in cockpit view smh
The Nordschliefe is narrow IRL. It's only on average 8 meters wide compared to the 19 meters wide of tracks like Silverstone.
This is a much better breakdown of the track accuracy than Kireth's FM vs GT7 video who focused on the crowd density.
I just wrote a comment ranting about why the eff are "crowd density" being compared, on a physics sim game when you can compare...idk...track realism? Car physics? Track detail? Blasted it out calling it a blatant diversion tactics.
It's like having a Ferrari 488 pista, compared to Lamborghini Countach....then going on to compare "how shiny the windscreen is". Or "how clean the air cap on the tyre is". Complete bollocks.
It's...a....physics...SIM game. But the bimbo is gonna compare trees in the background and the crowd. Bec he knows what happens when you compare the real stuff....HE LOOSES HIS MICROSOFT FANGIRLS
And he loses to SuperGT racer in custom match Route X, that makes more sense Kireth dislike GT
Kireth is a bum that is trying to get vieuws by kicking up controversy and a lot of people are stupid enough to fall for it
Its one of the most fun to drive tracks, so if there's a place they should add effort it's there
They absolutely raped the nordschleife
The trees feel overscaled in Forza which makes it feel very claustrophobic. And as you pointed out, there needs to be more clear vista views over the landscape between breaks in the forest. The grass needs to be more vibrant and the tree colors need to be a deeper green.
to be fair, it feels claustrophobic in other games because the track doesn't seem wide.
@hiromiwu8885 there's still parts that GT7 misses especially when it comes to the hills and smaller details.
From the ground up
ground meat up
@@randomcallsign That's spaghetti recipe
From the root up?... I'll see myself out...
It's become a joke this
@@IK47-d2lthe entire game is a meme
Totally agree with you, I'm a bit disappointed with FM Nordschleife track. Trees in Watkins Glen and other tracks looks really beautiful, but in Nordschleife it doesn't represent real track in some places. It is much more trees then it should be.
if you drive in mid Late Summer on a Trackday on the NOS you feel really like in the jungle!
But Quality of trees are a Reder Problem. NOS is really a problem for every Engine. So FM is not very polished and optimised so i think they tone it down for the NOS.
You have to be lying
Forza has completely messed up treelines in most tracks, they definitely just added random trees outside of the road to cut on development time instead of recreating the proper look
It's true. There is a special options in game text config where you can add more grass + trees on the all tracks. It meens that trees are random mostly in FM 2023. But it's not a problem for me. My problem that some trees look really bad. I use ultra graphic with 140% 2K resolution, but tree textures look like lowres with bad colors. Trees in GT7 not the best, but they look normal. Trees in FM can look great, but there are about 10% of trees with bad flat branches or without shadows or terrible color... I just spent hours to find the way to fix it.
@hiromiwu88851000% true gt7 looks awesome
Eh, I like it. I don’t play Forza for 100% realism, I think this is something the sim racing community needs to understand, Forza is not a out and out simulator in the same way things like AC and iRacing are designed to be, it is a controller first track racing game designed to bring people into the hobby by being accessible first while keeping it in the realms of realism.
I think the tree argument is it bit of a farce, I think it looks good and seeing them fly past at 150mph and ads to the tension of threading your car through this thin ribbon of tarmac. I don’t really care about the banners, they are trying to add a bit of something to otherwise blank space, that’s the designers prerogative, you can not like it but to say it’s not realistic is neither here nor there.
There are valid arguments to be made over FM, as a FM content creator myself I have highlighted many of those in my videos a number of times, however these are things that are broken in the game or features missing from previous Forza titles, not complaining that FM doesn’t drive like iRacing or what are, in the grand scheme of things, minor issues in terms of realism. Would you complain all star golf doesn’t play like PGA tour as well?
@Steel_Warhammer - except... the devs said that FM was "built from the ground-up".
@Steel_Warhammer - then why did Turn 10 say "built from the ground-up" again?
The fans aren't asking Forza to be next iRacing. They want it to honor its word.
Most are just Jumping on the hate-bandwagon together with their favorite UA-camr. I dont know why the algoritme sometimes randomly brings me here to Random Callsign but everytime it does its such a negative video about just truly nothing special.
Even this UA-camrs must know what FM is aiming for and for which fanbase but just fully rejects it anyway, for the clicks probably.
@@vennemans9113 - ahem... "Built from the ground-up."
@@pmayo7894 ahem - Again, don't care.
forza where trees look like broccoli, kerbs are made of sausage, and cars handle like a bucket of mashed potatos
someone's hungry
no but seriously why do all the cars feel front wheel drive
tell me you are british without telling me you are british
Just like digital foundry said the tree lines on all the real tracks are wrong yet GT7 was exact.
Well i think Assetto Got it very close in some parts
Just wait till you see the night version of the track. It's hilariously bad. They put lights all around the track, like it's the Singapore GP....lol. No need for headlights, as the track is lit like a stadium. It's awful on so many levels.
EDIT: Also, they're called "sectors". not "segments"... See ALL other sim titles for examples of this. GT7 gives you sector times (and not tucked up into the farthest reaches of your vision (i.e top right corner)), and most all sim (and sim-cade titles) do as well. So, I'm not sure which games you are referring to, when you say "more games need to do this", but maybe you know something I don't (which is certainly likely)....lol
Great video, though. I never quite realized just how many trees Turn 10 implemented. It really does look like they took the Nordschleife out of Germany, and transplanted it into the jungles of South America. I have heard it WAS to avoid draw distance issues, but then again, if the game was programed properly (and wasn't on the Xbox Series, honestly) they wouldn't need to go to such lengths....lol
Turn 10 dropped the ball HARD with this one. From career mode (what were they thinking!!!???) to graphics, to physics (floaty as hell, like usual), there's hardly anything nice to say about it, and I'm generally a Forza fan. Oh well.... *Fires up PS5 and GT7*
Forza be like : "We realeasing greenhell but without the green part"
sad but true
It's a good track. It's fun... but even I noticed it was baron... felt more like somewhere here in Australia, than somewhere in Europe
GT7’s best marketing has been Forza Motorsport recently. It just makes you appreciate PD’s output on a cross-gen title
The abundance of trees make the track feel claustrophobic.
Well, it IS already a bit claustrophobic, with all the blind corners, hills and trees (Green Hell), but you aren't wrong that it is even worse!
Those christmas trees are on every track. I can see in front of me how microsoft thought they was god and was trying to make the tracks look better than in real life but in the end looking like it´s sarcasm cause there is no christmas trees on the tracks in real life. Maybe the trees are making the performance worse cause vegetation is quite expensive. This ended up like starfield in the bin.
Let me start off by saying I've never driven Nordschleife in real life, I have, however, raced it in just about every racing game and watched 1000s of hours of real racing over the years on Nordschleife. That being said, I find this video a little over critical. I've been a huge critic of Forza Motorsport 2023, still am, but I have very few issues with this rendition of Nordschleife. The trees and foliage change season by season and year by year. The flags and festival events around the track change daily. You can drive the track in September of 2019 and then again in July of 2024 and have completely different foliage, track side objects, and banners. I think Turn 10 nailed the "Green Hell" feeling that Nordschleife is notorious for. The curbing complaints are a little ridiculous to me, unless you go to the track physically and laser measure the curbing, then find a way to do it in game, I just can't get to upset about that. My only issue with the track is the added flood lights around the track, Nordschleife has always been pitch black around several sections of the track, now there is a floodlight on every corner, unless those floodlights are actually new to the track, I don't like them. I stopped playing this game a month after launch, Nordschleife has got me playing again, and I'm having a blast on it. I think things like AI, car customization, puddles on tracks, online rammers, and the lack of a real single-player career mode are much larger issues than a tree being in the wrong place, or a banner that wasn't in that spot on July 19th, 2017. Forza Motorsport 2023 has more issues than I could have imagined when it was announced, and a lot of reasons to be upset, I could make a 10 hour video on my issues with this game, but at the same time I feel people have become overly critical of this game for minor reasons, but give games like GT7 and Assetto Corsa passes for stuff FM2023 gets crucified for. Mabye, I lack the near autistic levels of track detail retention people online seem to have, but the track plays great and looks gorgeous on my XSX.
We aren't talking about "some" trees. All of them are incorrect and killing the natural vibe of the track . I go to the nords twice each year for a few days .
It's just lazy copy pasta done in a rush in favor of the series S (hitbox) .
@Antidepressiva1980 I guess i just don't see it. Yeah, I agree the trees are thicker, but it's not a deal breaker. The track still feels like Nordschleife to me, and I don't have an issue with the trees, but you've actually been there, so you would know better. You could nitpick this track in almost every game, but for some reason, it's only Forza who gets hate when it's not a 1:1 perfect rendition of a track that constantly changes. Maybe if I was able to physically visit the track, I would feel the same as you. Unfortunately, I can't visit anytime soon, but I 100% plan on going in the next few years. If I remember this conversation when I finally get to see the track in person, and if that experience makes me hate FM2023s version, I'll be sure to eat Crow for this comment, lol.
It`s just about clicks here. It`s very trendy to overanalyzing Forza. You will get al lot of clicks from playstation children. That`s all.
I have both games an prefer Forza in terms of look and light, GT in terms of physics and penalty system.
i drew it for them with a crayon, from the ground up
Only with reviews like that they will improve this game. They said was scanned, maybe was a lie.
The track in the night looks really good, tree's are a bummer but not a deal breaker for me wouldn't say is the worst iteration of nords honestly.
As long as the trees are outside the track and not in the middle I'm good I guess 😂
So extra trees, a few high curbs, and a few other slight inaccuracies make it the worst Nordschleife? Idk man, I see just as many things wrong in other titles. At the end of the day, most modern games depict this track fairly accurately, different styles, times of day, seasons, scanning all make them a little different. I hate on Forza for all the "built from the ground up" nonsense they tried selling us on but IMO, this track is decent.
mediocre at best imo
It's easily the worst. iRacing, GT7, AC, Automobilista 1&2 all have a more accurate representation of the track with correct curbs, trees, banking and none of the tacky shit like the random flags, balloons, etc.
@@FirstName69 I raced all you mentioned except Automobilista 1. I'm not a fan of the Forza tacky shit either, especially the flags, but iRacing's version has a track surface that is unnaturally smooth, almost no bumps, even on the karusell. Automobilista 2 looks just about the best IMO but still has wrong trees. GT7 makes the track look too manicured and green. Also wrong trees. Point is, all are imperfect but we're to the point where we gotta nitpick where a tree is or the height of one or two curbs. Forza has been a dumpster fire but the Nord is by far the least of its problems.
And wait to drive in the night…with full lights all over the track. P.s. AC nords is a 2014 scan probably.
There is rumours of a New Rescan coming to AC2... that is going to be Mad if its true
@@FurryestX not a rumors, they are working on it for acc
Not only are there too many trees, but the trees are also so much taller than they are IRL, and it just ruins all the scenery. And T10 gonna T10 by changing all the kerbing. All the kerbs you already take on the Nords are correct, but all the kerbs you shouldn't take have been flattened. Only way to explain it would be they are making the track easier for arcade and controller players, which is fine since of course that's Forza's target audience, but even GT4 on the PS2 had more accurate kerbing and better environment. It's small details, but it kills the whole vibe of the track. You can't take a track known for its dangerous layout, brutal kerbs, beautiful forest, and scenic mountains and adjust the layout and kerbs to make it easy and block off the forest and mountains with massive trees and expect people to not be unhappy about it.
Trying this track I was reminded of just how strange the physics are. The cars are so lazy and unresponsive on turn in. Nordschleife really highlights that, Flugplatz felt like it was pretty much rng if the car decided to turn or not lol.
Without a proper tuning setup the cars feel off , true.
Was a forza problem for ages and still continues. Stock tire psi for example is way too high on every car in the game !
Either you adjust the setup to a more life like state or you'll face the swimming understeer chaos that these stock tunes are.
Sadly but it is what it is.
@@Antidepressiva1980 Yea, I figured the default setups probably weren't good. But it just feels like a fundamental tyre model flaw. Sad thing is that otherwise it doesn't feel terrible to drive, and I didn't expect Forza to become the king of racing sims either. But it isn't enjoyable with how odd the tyres are.
It could be the steering lock. Forza doesn't seem to automatically set a soft steering lock based on the car, even race cars with 480° or 540° steering lock irl still use the full steering lock of the wheel, be it 1080° or 900° or whatever. I found this out when I was checking out Nordschleife a couple of days ago, after manually matching the steering lock, the car feels a lot more responsive on turn in.
That is mostly because FM is primarily made for controller driving and chase cam view . @@namesii1880
I can tell you stuck at the game 😂
*cough*
now take the bulletpoints of the curbs and stuff, and visit Motorsport 7, if you still have that game installed...
This map is basically a direct port from motorsport 7, with added crap around the track.
the track mesh goes back to fm5 lol
@@arixant thats a big yikes chief lmao Even the wavy barrier on the (now) Sabine Schmitz corner?
@@02lucy666 literally everything but the trees, campsites and skybox are directly lifted from fm5.
@@arixantBUILT
BUILT FROM THE GROUND UP
I just realized this but the reason why this track looks so wrong here is because personally I'm used to how it looks in plenty of other games while in Forza. It looks vastly different.
It's the same with how Laguna Seca in The Crew 2 is cursed but that game has the entire USA map to blend in with.
traitor get back in my comment section!
Colour coding though is really identical to real life and i love the quality of soil on the banks would love to see it in the rain if it would make mud like forza 7
I can't say the same this is a step up from fm7 people just like to bitch about anything now days
4:31 "It was the Jungle, it just came alive and took him...." 👀
Poor Hawkins
The Party Zones are really spot on when big events hit the NOS. Also the Tree Densitiy in Mid-Late Summer is also look lke in FM. So it may be a scan from this time.
The party zones might be correct to a degree but the trees on the other hand are copy pasta to reduce distant views in favor of the Xbox Series S (hitbox) . They are incorrect af and killing the whole track vibe .
Yes so its not the correctest Version in Gaming when it comes to the trees but the overall vibe is brilliant and it feels really lively and not so lifeless ond blank than in the sims he mentioned. The best looking NOs in Racing actually.
best looking to this day is the one from AMS2@@HCPiet
Trees are anything but correct. And I drove the real track regularly. 😂
And no - also not „best looking“. AC with mods looks way better.
Also ich wohn da direkt um die Ecke und im Spätsommer ist der Bewuchs schon sehr stark und kommt dem wie in Forza schon sehr nahe. Auch wenn die Baumlinien natürlich nicht akkurat sind.
Und ja die NOS sieht in Forza besser aus als in AC mit Mods! Schatten, Objektdetails und Menge gibt es so nunmal in AC nicht so wie hier. Es wirkt einfach viel lebendiger.
Quiet literally just made a comment on how the same rowed trees out in the distance when driving Nordschleife in GT7 drove me nuts. Looks like Forza is not all that great when it comes to trees either. I'm running GT7 on PS4 pro tho, maybe theirs a diff?
They didn't even get the clouds in the sky the same!!!!
I raced 12 laps on this track last night. Being the second time driving this track in games I don't have any complaints.
I regularly hike along the Nordschleife. You can walk the entire route and watch the cars. Great for hikers. Walking downhill gives you a special relationship with the route and helps you to understand the route (e.g. gradients). Diving into the fox tube is particularly impressive.
I reinstalled the game just to test this track, I know it like the back of my hand since I’ve driven the track since I was 6. The roads have no feel, the bumps and curves are innacurate. The roads are too wide, they didnt put in all the blinds from the real track, and the blinds they did are too wide. It took me YEARS to find the perfect line, using the ACCURATE version of the track and this game just throws it in your face? These game developers are NOT car guys, they are money hungry. The physics in the game are terrible, and god forbid you drive without any assista and manual clutch shifting? How does the character miss 3-4? It takes a whole second and a half to shift! Needless to say, i reuninstalled, again. Thank god the game is free.
Honestly I agree with your issue about too many trees, it’s so out of place that I think I’m on a different track or a alternate version of the Nurburgring especially after the drop into the right hander (forgot the name I believe eschbach) and onto that somewhat of a straight it opens up from the trees and then goes back and I’m there like “is this a new section?” When it’s all the exact same and then I crash over and over because I’m not expecting it to be like I’m in a forest I’m expecting it to be on the edge of a forest with the trees
1:58 lidar is laser scanning.
Lidar (/ˈlaɪdɑːr/, also LIDAR, LiDAR or LADAR, an acronym of "light detection and ranging"[1] or "laser imaging, detection, and ranging"[2]) is a method for determining ranges by targeting an object or a surface with a laser and measuring the time for the reflected light to return to the receiver. Lidar may operate in a fixed direction (e.g., vertical) or it may scan multiple directions, in which case it is known as lidar scanning or 3D laser scanning, a special combination of 3-D scanning and laser scanning.[3]
What gets me is, how much work obviously goes into creating such a large track, but then they decide that all the trees have exactly one and the same color. Compare that to Maple Valley...its lke 2 different games.
Was bound to be bad since its Forza.
No Problem. The Multyplayer on FM is great🤩🖖
Do you guys remember the Forza Motorsport trailers where they focused on the wildlife and trees and how good they made it all look? Nothing like that in the game at all and they always claim that these scenes are taken from in game footage. I think Turn 10 have become dishonest.
The problem is the devs are not car enthusiast/Purist and they don't play their game.
They surely drive a prius
The problem isn't the devs, it's Microsoft's stupidd rules where they give devs a contract where they work for 18 months with no benefits, then spend 6 months on unpaid leave and a chance to extend their contract. If extremely lucky they'll get a full time contract so what ends up happening is that senior staff end up loosing their contract and devs don't have time to make it as accurate as possible. Then other devs have to go and try to pick up their work or start from a point where they have no idea what previous employees did.
@@valkeitos hmmm ok I see.
The worst Nordschleife?! Clickbait! If you nitpick other games I'm sure there is alot to criticise as well. But people just enjoy stomping on Forza and xbox games in general. I think they gave the track a good vibe to make it feel alive and not boring. As long as the track layout is pretty accurate is fine by me. No game will be able to do it 100%.
OMG those trees. WTF is going on?
they look more realistic than in any other sim!
@@mh7711 The trees yes, the positions of them no, doesn't give the right vibe. It looks VERY different from real life.
@@samuuh331 ahhh ok, i dont mind how it looks i real life, even there would be Palms... then I understand... @samuuh331
Shocker, it's as if turn 10 puts the bare minimum amount of money and effort into these titles now. Only to cash grab the rest of the profit.... It's because they do XD. I hope Turn-10 and Bethesda both go bankrupt, and I hope motivated and passionate studios pickup what's left of these worthless studios. I miss the old fallout and forza titles, they deserve to be reincarnated into modern titles on modern hardware. Both studios fail to give later generations the same gaming experience us older generations had. We truly lived through something special in the late 90s to late 2000s, gaming studios actually put passion into their work back then. Now it's hard to find a passionate studio that isn't indie or low budget.
Is insane how massive the gulf in quality is between Forza Horizon 4 or 5 and the new Forza Motorsport
This is an opinion from a Japanese person, but in conclusion, I don't see the point in comparing it to other games. For example, "GT7" GT7 was criticized a lot for its behavior when it was first released, but it got better as time went on. (Update) Considering the current era, I personally think that the game should not be released as a complete game, but as an incomplete game and then completed with an update. So it's okay to wait. Also, I like Forza Motorsport because it has its good points.
But it is with these criticisms that they are able to be improved upon.
GT7 would not have gotten such an improvement in handling physics, if it weren’t from the huge amount of info produced by players on what feels wrong etc.
And, even then, Polyphony for example, have shown to be studio to really look into the feedback given (at least in terms of driving physics. They still haven’t improved single player). Meanwhile turn 10 has shown very little, and has even shown bad faith, with the downgrade in graphics and over selling of the game.
Forza can still have a chance in becoming good. However, they have to put in the effort like other studios do
Damn, those are some good looking trees 🤩 segment scores are annoying, hopefully we can disable that. Looks like one of the best Nordschleifes I've seen in any game. Can't wait!!
I love it on my SeriesX with Porsche GT3 Fanatecwheel🖖
It fills like you are in a tropical jungle. Very weird.
I mean yeah I get it, when you compare side by side it don’t look as good, but like, it literally don’t matter 🤷♂️ like, I’ve been driving this the last few days and it’s incredible, when I’m driving 150mph I don’t even see the trees, I’m busy actually racing, which for me is the ultimate point, the physics and overall quality of the track makes it amazing, the best simcade imo for driving alone imo, grand tourismo is very nice aesthetically but the actual physics and way further from real life than forza, the cars actually feel like cars
However, if you're planning to drive on the track IRL, that's where you'll notice the flaws of the virtual track. You need to know when to brake, where to brake, when to turn, and anticipate. The details matter as they also serve as useful markers, otherwise you may end up on the barriers... or worse.
Nah, it would be problem if you want switching to real simracing in the future or even real life. Because then you will adjusting your muscle memory of braking point again.
@@kotarojujo2737 not a problem, you just adapt, plus it’s very close to irl, the main difference is the elevation change, but no game can correctly simulate how intense the elevation change is irl
@@pmayo7894 I don’t need it to be perfect to practice, whatever the minor differences you just adapt, it actually don’t matter, and this is true no matter the game, no game 100% captures what the track actually feels like
Nothing wrong with it mate I’m having fun on it
when you think about it, maybe Turn 10 wasn't lying whenever they said each Forza games after 4 being built from the ground up, the ground is getting drier and drier it became a drought.
I don't understand why everyone is treating Forza like a Sim racing game when it is clearly a arcade game.
It should be compared to Gran Turismo, not real sims
Because gt7 is also arcade and yet do the job better for accuracy
@@kotarojujo2737 ic
"built from the ground up"
"8 point tyre contact"
@@Niki_Nielsenif GT7 its not a sim, WTF is MARIO KART, WIPEOUT OR ASPHALT SUPOSED TO BE?
Clowneth Kart said it’s better than GT7’s nords.
Dudes a clown
who?
because people prefer looking at a polished turd, than an accurate depiction of a track... apparently. Or they are just huffing massive amounts of copium really.
Who takes Kireth seriously
@@leonardovazquez5984 I hope nobody takes him seriously. He is using the most disgusting strategies how to make views. He is spreading misinformations and controversial opinions that he doesn’t believe himself, but he know people will get angry and comment under his videos or they will tell about those stupid videos to their friends and he will be getting more views that way. Same strategies are used by the worst magazine tabloids.
@vvs6433 I could tell what type of channel he had after only 1 or 2 videos. He isn't interested in informing viewers or entertaining them, he's there for clicks and money by any way possible. He doesn't even hide it either...but people are dumb.
If I’m correct I don’t think for a could of scanned it cause it was going under construction
As a German living not too far away from the course, the trees strike me as odd because they don't look really German, while those from the video footage feel much more "at home".
It’s funny as they seems to put out new tracks as if there was no competition, like it’s 2007.
Various games came with lasers can precision and accurate placement of everything and since T10 is in the sim game (even if we all know this term in 2024 don’t really fits to what T10 do) they really need to step up their game.
Lighting is very good, clear bright Summer day vibes here!
I still cant wrap my head around how they managed to make the game look way WORSE than Forza Motorsport 4
So it's just the same old shit with a little bit of new unnecessary shit sprinkled on top. What a huge surprise lol.
I believe they claim the tracks to be laserscanned but... i'm not that convinced. Most of them look off, and especially feel off. Going through a corner you don't end up where you would normally expect to end up at
I like the extra life and artistic stuff. But the trees need to be reworked.
Who gives a fu$k about the trees?? C'mon😅I love the track really enjoy it.
With ACC's upcoming Nordschleife, fully scanned, I really can't wait to see u talk about it. Or even more: compare it to this built-from-the-ground-up Nord in FM8
Does anything about Forza not suck balls? What a fucking joke of a game…since day 1.
Next gen console - first gen game.
Total embarrassment.
Played this for all of 1 month back in November and was like f-this nonsense.
I really dislike the complete overuse of trees everywhere. And all of the vegetation is basically the exact same color as well. In real life the trees have a range of colors and shades of green. Not just a wall of the exact same shade of green for all vegetation on the entire track.
I will take the version of the Nordschleife in OG Assetto Corsa over the version in the new Forza Motorsport 100% of the time. It's actually shocking how completely the fumbled the bag when it came to Forza Motorsport. I don't know what they were thinking. Basically every single aspect of the game is messed up in some fundamental way. I've put hundreds of hours into previous Forza games. Both motorsport and horizon. Going all the way back to like Forza Motorsport 4. And I uninstalled the new Forza Motorsport after playing ~4 hours. It was that bad. The basic act of just driving in that game feels terrible. Idk how they made the physics model feel so bad, but Forza Horizon 4 and 5 feel like they have more realistic physics than the new Motorsport. Even if they do give you insane amounts of front end grip. The physics in the new motorsport feel like they were made by someone who's never actually driven a car, much less pushed on one the track.
They basically spent all this time making a much worse version of Forza Motorsport 7. It's just baffling to me how they could get it so wrong.
What’s the most accurate version of the track?
the assetto corsa scan is the highest density one available to the public so far, speaking from a laser scan to final product perspective. the acc one should theoretically be even better.
I rekon gt7 has always had a really good version, also when I go from Gt7 to AC very similar
The update just came out, man! Has UA-cam just become a cesspool of haters?
Valid critique ≠hater
Hey rc, can you do a video on racecraft online for ams2 please. It's an awesome service very similar to Iracing just without the absurd costs. You are one of the most honest sim UA-camrs whose opinion carries the most. I think your integrity would really help boost their racer numbers.
"In sim racing"?
3:23 that far away moutain in the skybox looks like the moutian from Spa lmao, it looks competely different in gt7
I am so glad I watched this video. I was getting so confused as to why it felt so damn wrong to race on the Nordschleife in this game. I have raced this track for years before hand, and thought my age was finally getting to me. 26 is a little young for onset of dementia, but that is what it was feeling like lol.
They are using a map from an older fm title thats why it looks the way it does. There are just some things changed, but its mostly just a bit of a remaster.
5.35 no they are not on the track.
and the flags are indeed really ugly.
as a german i can say : we are not a jungle
and the track is not realistic. I saw that they used wrong assets from older Forza games..
and the Assetto Corsa trees are really the cherry on top.
No matter what the current devs touch, they screw it up.
I just bought a used PS5 to play GT7 and god, that game is so beautiful, not just aesthetically but also physics wise, just an amazing simcade experience. I can't believe we have been supporting Forza for so many years and they just keep screwing us over.
Can U compare Forza Motorsport 4 and Forza Motorsport 7 Nordschleife ? Driving FM4 my lap time was 8:56, in FM7 it was 7:57. 2005 Ford GT , same car similar play style, 1min in lap times difference. Is it track any different ?
Without a flying lap these times can’t be compared. 4’s start line is on the straight while 7’s is at one of the slowest parts of the track. You lost half the straight’s worth of acceleration.
*flying lapS
Who cares about the scenery? Nobody is like o look how beautiful that hill is when your racing down a road??
Yeah this guys a moron instead of bringing attention to actual problems in FM they cry about trees lmfao literal man children.
The tittle should be! Gran Turismo player reviews trees:
GT7 from outside the car looks like your driving a skateboard
That's awesome. Too bad cars are driven from the inside.
While I do agree that the trees are sub par in appearance (I feel AMS2's trees are among the best looking IMO), it's not the most pressing matter for Turn 10 at the moment I'd wager - I think they have MUCH bigger fish to fry so to speak). Regards to the walls of trees, I do wonder if it's like mentioned in the video, for performance purposes? The engine is Turn 10's own proprietary 'Forza Tech', so I am not sure how this stacks up to Unreal, Polyphony Digital's engine, Kuno's AC engine, etc.. If the comment about curb height discrepancies is accurate, this would be a bigger concern for me. Once I gather the courage to boot this game up again, I'll give this track a spin. Overall, in the grand scheme of things, it looks like it will do the job well enough. My hopes are more pinned on ACC's upcoming version!
I'm the same, for performance I could forgive the trees but the kerbs being wrong seems off to me, with the way track are scanned an built into games it seems very lazy or incompetent to miss something that obvious.
A sim with no native wheel support. 😂
There’s more color in the on board camera footage than in the game lmao
That's why kunos did a good job inviting Misha when they created a early version of the Nordschleife.
Man the PC version of this game has so much aliasing! Even without DLSS the game looks like crap...
Its called TAA and reducing resolution to get More than 60 frames because game is optimized like S**T
I don't have time to look at trees when I'm racing... Is this for real🤣
The quality of the trees does indeed make all the difference. Personally, I hate it when a tree has been 'copy-pasted' around the track.
The new Kerb at Fuchsröhre is now also high. The Team of turn 10 looks in to the future😂
Game looks so fucking awful, I can’t believe I bought this when it came out, glad I haven’t touched it since November😂
I had the exact same thoughts when I drove for the first time, but my basis of comparison is other racing titles; namely Assetto Corsa, which is quite old now. The PS2 era assets also don't help at all.
People are so picky nowdays
The same thing that they do with the cars reusing models from the Xbox 360 they do with the tracks aswell, i'm a Forza player over 12 years and i can tell truly this is the exact same nordschleife from the old X360 days!!
This game is for American kids, it's alright
Why are gt fans so obsessed with track and not with physics? Maybe because gt sucks so much at it.