I don’t think a person who hasn’t experienced the toxic dynamic of living with a narcissist (or working with one) can understand the kind of insidious abuse that it involves. Not even reading the comments.
Lol nobody can put a coherent sentence together we all have short term memory loss (cptsd) and cognitive dissonance....if I had to describe them insidious, sadistic, are a few words..sorry mate, stringing a paragraph together is a bit of a task right now . But yep you think they go low but then you discover there's a whole lower low you can't even fathom.... getting close? Good luck ...
It was definitely like nothing else I've ever experienced in my life. I walked away from the relationship after half a year; my friends and family (whom she was trying to isolate me from) helped me to see the red flags and ultimately walk away.
Wanted to take a second and say Thank You Lise, I am 53 yrs old male and have been married for 26 years. I am sitting at my desk fighting back tears (have been for weeks actually) I had no idea what covert narcissism was until about 3 weeks ago. My jaw has been in my lap every since! Video afrer video describing the life I've been living! I have since done the full blown UA-cam search "tour" on the subject, just like you have desrcibed so many of us doing. I had moved out of our home about a month ago and stumbled on to the first video shortly afrer that. Funny thing is, I was searching for self help material on communication skills when I found the first Covert Narcissism Video. I had become convinced it was poor communication skills that had been causing all our problems. HA! That had to be it, it only makes sence I would think that after all the years of unknowingly being gas-lighted!! All our conversations turn into confussing unpredicable messes and ending with me pulling my hair out! And yes I do constantly feel like I'm walking on eggshells every day of my life, it's exhausting!! I have been struggling to decide if I should end our marriage for weeks now. As I've been educating myself on the subject I have begun to realized just how difficult it will be to leave her.(So so hard) I have been experiencing withdrawl symptoms in the form or panic attacks, general depression, anxieity, random bouts of anger, uncontrolable crying and a feeling of profound loneliness! Also the thought of my wife in horrible debilitating pain drives me back to her in my head every time. I actully loved her (as best I understand that emotion). Thank you for enlightening me that its not Love being reciprocated and Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! for these videos. Especially this last one. They seem to be my ONLY DEFENCE against the "trap" for now. Continuously, reminding me 1. I'm not crazy 2. Yes, she really is a Covert Narcissist (so surreal)(stunned disbelief). 3. She been this way for 26 years she is NOT going to change! I've decided not to go back, please pray for my resolve! Post Script: You are very good at what you do, please don't ever stop your making a difference!! Thank you again!
Wade.. Brother listen. Your comment popped out at me. I've been to narcland 3 times now out of a longer list of lovely women. All 3 were horrific experiences - the 3rd of which just ended with me having less than $100 in the bank. But there is some responsibility to be taken on my part and I really hope you hear this. A huge number of us that end up in these situations get hooked through our own inadequacies setup by a problematic parent/situations in childhood. WE are often exactly like the narc in many ways, just with the opposite expression of the problem - call it the opposite polarity. In my case, 3 amazing women came along that, at the time, I was super lucky to have on my arm - all 3 for different reasons. In the hooking phase, your secret inadequacy feels so propped up - but its SUBTLE. I repeat - It's subtle. You have to look for it in yourself. In your case that was a long time ago, but if you're like me, beneath the tears flowing from you now is probably someone that wanted to be good enough and be worth enough to be loved properly and treated with value by this woman. You wanted to be accepted for who you are, how you are. Therein lies the conundrum. In the same way only the narc can heal their wounds, only you can accept that someone who loves and respects himself can expect that the actions and gestures of another person can fill that void. A person who loved and respected themselves never would expect that. Take it from me who just ended his 3rd round with an otherwise amazing woman... If you split with your wife and get back on the scene - DONT look so much for narc traits in future women to avoid. You'll only see what you look for. Instead, look for responses in yourself that uncover your own unhealed traits. What I'm about to write is the most important thing i can... The second, and most harmful narc I encountered wasn't at all attractive, and I passed over the most breathtaking, loving, caring, genuine woman I also had just started dating,- just to be with the narc. Having a long think about 'how' and 'why' I would do something so stupid on a deep level. In that you might find your own healing and also help not repeat the same pattern in the future. Sure be aware - especially of the love bombing and speed they want to bond with you but don't make it the first priority. Because believe me, they are 1000% convincing when they come along and at the beginning they ALWAYS look the polar opposite to the harmful person you experienced previously. Only looking at your own healing and responses to people will save you. In my case, had I done that, the second narc would have been skipped over. I would have had a great relationship with a woman who is now very happily married with a man who is happy to have her. Specifically, someone who loved and valued himself wouldn't have been hooked on the compliments or feelings of being 'special' by the narc and would have chosen the better, more healed of the 2 woman. Really think about that. Take care man. You'll be great after this and definitely are not alone in your experience but you have to go through the fire to shake this off. And you will.
A lovely message you wrote. I hope you find the strength to get on with your life. The same feeling I have here. I was married to a man for 16 years, we had 3 children together then got divorced because his undiagnosed ( only just last year confirmed) ADHD was taking a toll on our marriage and me. I ended up meeting a woman after our divorce and she was my relationship after him. This cycle of abuse has been going on since day 3 after our first kiss almost 2 years ago. I have been love bombed, given the silent treatment so many times I can't even count, lied to, no idea if she's cheated, been yelled at, intimidated abandoned, dumped and hoovered. I never felt we were a couple. A few weeks ago she got mad again at me because I didn't properly respond to her text message. I wrote see you soon, and when I got to her apartment for dinner, she was pissed off at me, sat there angry and would not smile.it was so uncomfortable so I asked if I should leave she said yes. So as I was getting my things together, I asked if this is a break up, she said yes. I left her place, went home and broke down. Cried myself to sleep. I have no idea if I'll ever hear from her again. It's so painful. She can pop up any time. This is the 10th time she's broken up with me in 2 years. I promised myself I would never go back. I also am trying to be strong, for myself and my children. I teach yoga and am a long distance runner, so I have a lot of endorphins in my body....it's an awful mixture of good healthy and happy Vs toxic, painful and feeling pretty much worthless. Sending love to you ❤️
Wade, I just got out of a 4 year relationship with a covert narcissist. The first 2 months after the discard were the most confusing and painful of my life. I was so hurt I’d been instantly replaced (be prepared for that) and I found myself suicidal. It was then after talking to a therapist and discovering narcissism that all the pieces finally fit and made sense! ALL OF IT! I highly recommend you listen to the audiobook “psychopath free”. It’s as if the author was narrating my relationship. The most important part to remember is you’re not alone. It’s confusing, it’s painful and it breaks your freaking heart… but you can get through it. The cognitive dissonance and trauma bond are ABSOLUTE HELL… I’ve heard it’s similar to, or worse, than withdrawals from drugs. I’m not going to lie it’s the worse thing I’ve ever gone though. I’m still going through it… stay strong brother and reach out if you ever want to talk.
@@christianwininger77 Thank you for the kind words and sharing you story. I will defiantly check out your recommendation on the audiobook. Best wishes to you and your future!
Do not let her know you are ended it until you are prepared. Sh&+ will turn ugly instantly and whilst you will want honour and negotiate and discuss a fair break. First she will make you feel like this is the case, but she is just buying time for the artillery that is moving up and going to shit over the 26 years without a single care for any of it. Money is the first thing they go after, because money is power and power is control. You need to be prepared with a lawyer who is skilled in NPD separations who can be assertive quickly and not linger about with soft tactics. Buy a seat belt and strap yourself in coz it is going to be a bumpy ride. PS as soon as you begin to enforce personal boundaries a narc will leave on their own. The only reason they are with you is because you have never enforced personal boundaries which has allowed them to run their game.
I've been out of it for over 2 years. I second guessed myself a lot. This video confirms it though I'm better off out of it. It really was horrible. I'm working on myself strengthening my boundaries. I can't do that again. It's way better to be alone then it is to lose yourself in a toxic relationship.
If a friend said to you, "My partner is amazing but treats me like absolute shit one day a week" you would tell that person to leave their partner. It doesn't matter what mental illnesses or personality disorders they have. It's not ok. Get out.
Yes, friends warning me, business dropping off, self confidence gone, silent treatment, being controlled, hot and cold behaviour, triangulation, isolation, constant requests for money, gifts. Was hoovered back in several times. Each time the same cycle restarted. Since we broke up, business is improving again and self confidence slowly coming back. But when she was nice, she was really nice.
I know that feeling. My ex was one of the most intelligent and sexiest people I had met. But she was also terribly toxic and manipulative. All that good came with so much bad. The funny thing is, I don't even blame her! I don't think she was mean by choice. She was full of insecurities. And her family were just as toxic as she was, if not worse. I blame myself for not walking away in time instead of letting myself be subjected to emotional abuse.
Yes Matthew, I found it crazy the money/business dropping off too in both narc relationships I've had. For no particular reason. Even during the honeymoon phase both times I noticed just 'things going wrong' and a total drop of usual income that comes in. Sometimes in really peculiar ways. In both situations by the end I was left with under $100 in the bank, dropping from an otherwise really decent income.
The worst part is them constantly accusing YOU of being abusive. I've spent nearly 5 years trying to "fix my wrongs," have a 3 year old child involved, and was discarded on Christmas day this past year. It sucks guys. The constant, every single minute of the day doubting yourself and wishing you could do things differently, when deep down you don't think it would change a single thing.
I can relate mines had an abortion without my confirmed knowledge, suspected but she would always deny she was indeed pregnant then after the act she became angry about everything blamed me for all types of stupid stuff in the mean time I am lost racking my brain trying to figure out what did I do to deserve this sudden change from loving to repulsive behavior, then for the holidays she stopped answering my calls when she finally did she blamed me for everything under the sun, I ask her if she was secretly seeing someone she said no it was just that was the issue couldn't fathom the madness, fast forward to the first week in March and all hell broke loose I found out she did have an abortion and she blamed me for it and didn't take any accountability it ,looking at her you couldn't tell how demonic she is
My ex consistently tried to gaslight me into believing I was physically abusive even though I never laid a finger on her in a violent way. She argued that I was and I just hadn't done it yet. It was very confusing and wasn't until I looked back in retrospect that I realized I had told her my mother divorced my father while she was pregnant with me because he was physically abusive and my mother didn't want me whitenessing it and then turning out like him. What my mother did worked and I would never take my anger out on a woman physically. My ex was trying to destroy my sense of self in everyway imaginable, in some ways she succeeded. I became suspicious when it came to things strongly built into the foundation of who I am and I began to see her insidious patterns.
Hmm. Same eChristmas here... 4 kids, a home and Ijust get discarded a few days just before christmas. Turns out she had a relationship on the side, but was all my fault. Never could do ANYTHING right. Put dishes away the wrong way, didn't do this, didn't do that etc. Her cheating was all my fault too. It's textbook.
This is literally my current significant other..... every single tick... we just had a good weekend and then today we were on the phone i brought up something that upset me and instantly she went for my throat over it i simply address something i was upset about. I noticed early on my father who has been a narc my entire life and her vibed well. They always together made jokes at my expense or ganged up on me and belittled me. She always played this off as not wanting to stick up for me and hurt the relationship as she put it we both cant be on the outs. I then watched her have a meltdown at a wedding i was the grooms man at because i wasnt spending time with her, yet i had all my responsibilities of being in the wedding. She made it a point to tell my entire family i wasnt doing well mental health wise. This got back to me much later.. she has EVERYONE played no one sees the sides i see. She told me before to tell people because im the crazy one who will believe me. Now for a couple months we have reached a stage where she is periodically and randomly freaking out mock ending the relationship when i speak up she comes back. It seems like whenever i feel good and start to consolidate control of any kind she has to take it. Something as small as a comment about an instagram post threw her into a tyriad. Every single time i try to communicate and rationally work through the issues in the relationship she ignores or avoids it. I asked her to stop mocking and belittling me yet she always floats back to harsh and self demeaning comments. The one day she attempted passive aggressive comments on 4 different topics in 20 mins until she hit the button. Then she said i was a lunactic and making it all up and this is why are relationship sucks. Im broke, out of shape, depressed.. the discard is coming accept w her its about not guys but a career..shes obsessed with " finding herself". Shes positioned herself with me a position of utter power she determines if i eat because my money pays my bills , my father also refuses despite living with me to even share a meal with me. The situation is shit and they both sent me to " get help" meanwhile they are ones who have manipulated and pressured me. The love bomb phase was about 1 year with issues in the back half of that year. By the 2nd year the situation got worse the belittling, mocking, manipualtion game started. By year 3 she is actively sorta trying to dump me but its a tactic because its the one thing she can trigger me on. Between year 2-3 lying kicked up. This was justified by saying it was for my own good so i didnt get upset. I tried to speak to people but they sided with her because she said i gave her no choice because i would get so upset ,this is partially true but not one of those topics did she attempt to speak with me 1st.. her mother i believe is the narc that made her. That was another disasterous situation. She has EVERYONE believing her story her friends and her family, my family and even a few of my friends. She does this by going above and over for others..this wins her favors. People are stupid they all think because she does a few nice things for them shes amazing. She does it all for supply, attention and because it benefits her game. I cant believe this is the life i live and i let this happen. Im so stuck and in truth afraid. If your reading this and you notice things i said happening please leave / she killed me with support and being my " caretaker " or whatever. It was all about making me look bad.. also - whenever i was depressed and having a really low day she wasnt even around she would find and excuse to ignore me or she would literally call and scream at me. Her and my father spent 3 years convincing me i was the issue and the problem 100% insane!
The first time you caused them to feel shame (which can be anytime and entirely unintentional) is probably when the devaluing starts. Always pay attention to what they do and not what they say.
You'll never get clarity. If you feel like you have to be a detective- your correct they're toxic. Normals don't make you try to figure things out again and again.
Saw all seven in my last relationship. I can’t remember a good time that wasn’t surrounded by a rage fit, silent treatment, projection campaign, or a ghosting event.
I fell for a narcissist once. Thankfully I studied NLP, hypnosis and body language. I could see when she was lying and in her "crazy" mode. It lasted 3 months and was the craziest roller-coaster relationship I have ever had. The final straw was when she lied about where she had been one evening, the eyes always give a person away. I called her out and then full-crazy came out. I became very calm and watched her try and keep me from walking out. 1st with yelling, then crying, then trying to get intaimate with me. I just stared, un fazed, grabbed my few things and walked out. Turned out she was juggling a bunch of relationships while I was staying at her house. I sleuthed the guy she was with the evening I walked out, called him and he was shocked; to say the least. A few minutes later the crazy girl called me and said, "Do you know what you just did!? You ruined my life!" I felt quite proud.
Holy shit, your story is EXACTLY like mine except I don’t know body language, NLP, or hypnosis. Also, mine lasted 4 months and she dumped me. I felt betrayed by her lie about where she spent the night but she discarded and devalued me when she didn’t like my reaction.
Get the hell out once you know! But don't tell. The female covert narcissist is the worst. I made excuses and believed it was hormones, or stress or other things. But this is a severe personality disorder and you are dealing with somebody who is extremely manipulative and good at acting but in reality has no empathy and no conscience. This is pure evil!
I did exactly the same I made excuses PMT /hormones or work issues.She would come home and just dump on me for hours for everything that went wrong in her day.I kept thinking I could fix things but I couldn't fix her .She had zero empathy for me ,I actually think she hated me .Everybody was treated better than me , even the tradesmen LOL.She demolished my self esteem, I am recovering slowly.
My ex had this story: her life is a mess, nobody understands her, her colleagues are incompetent, her superiors hold her back out of sheer spite. Her side of the story was all that mattered. She even went so far as to "manage" my reality. She would also occasionally have these brief moments of clarity (or perhaps this too was manipulation?!) and she would say, "Have you had enough already?" as if testing me if I was ready to throw in the towel. Which of course I didn't because I believed it was my job to be there for her. Finally she monkey branched me and moved on. I just wish I had stood up for myself and walked away during the love bombing phase. I once looked for closure, but now I know better: there is no closure! Or rather, there was all the closure I needed: she cut me loose and left me adrift. That is all I need to know.
I thought for a long time that she just had bad PMS and that's why she treated me like garbage sometimes and well others. Eventually the window of bad treatment grew larger and larger, and the window of her treating me well grew smaller and smaller. I eventually just shut down and went into exist mode and wasn't feeding her anymore. And I still miss her! Sigh. I guess we hold on to the good times, which were GREAT, but few, but we need to focus on the entire picture.
We all have to remember the diagnosis is irrelevant. You can tell if you're being abused. Life's just too short to put up with that. Get out and be happy man!
I got called a narcissist for getting mad at someone who was lying to me about seeing no one and she I believe has borderline personality disorder . I was called a Narcissist by the guy she was on a date with when she got flowers from me . Problem is a lot of people, especially immature ones convince themselves they are victims when they really arent . So this mentality can lead many people to pretend they are always right and when someone is confused and wants to talk they feel “controlled” or if the other persons gets upset for being lied to in a similar way to the past the immature person will say “oh they are demanding” etc.. Some people are not self aware or just careless due to immaturity and wanting to feel right or due to their own undiagnosed issue, so they will convince themselves they experienced “abuse” when really what they got was more like a predictable frustration from another person. If you hang with someone who lacks empathy or self awareness they will act like you trying to just talk is pointing fingers or being dramatic , when it’s really trying to squash present or future tension . That guy basically told her exactly what she wanted to hear and doubled down on her bad habits and communication . Ironically I realized he checked off a lot of what a narcissist does and says and I didn’t really totally know that. I called him out on his manipulative actions not realizing I was describing a snrcisssif myself . And when I called her out I described her seeming selfishness but with her I don’t think she was trying to be totally selfish as much as it really was her unable to control her emotions and was undiagnosed and very not self aware . I feel terrible for her and wish she would have the awareness.
"Like a drug, you get addicted to the very thing that is slowly and systematically killing you." So well said, and so true. Staying in a relationship like this is an actual ADDICTION as damaging to our heart, mind and soul as heroin, meth, cocaine, alcohol, gambling, etc.
Wow, this video helps so much. I was widowed in 2019 and a year later I decided to open up and in she swooped. Grief does wierd things to you. All you want is your best friend back and I thought I'd found it. It's been almost as bad of an experience as losing my wife to cancer. Finally she's out and you described her perfectly. I didn't know about narcissism at the time. Even now, she's trying to hoover me back in and even buying property nearby in order to convince the world that she wants to make it work. I've gone no contact and I'm sticking with it no matter what! My boundaries won't be crossed again. The thought of living alone for the rest of my life is like a ray of sunshine rather than go back to that poison roller coaster. "I can see clearly now the rain is gone" 🎶 Thank you for this video. It sums up the madness quite nicely.
The #1 indication that you are married to a narcissist is their ability to play the silent treatment game for months at a time and hold back information, intimacy and communication so you don't know what's going on with the family or kids, unless you have another source of information. This usually accompanied by being forced into celibacy.....within the marriage.
Narcissism is on a spectrum just like autism. On one side are people that are just a little annoying and usually do have empathy, and on the other side are the ones that have 0 empathy and purposely manipulate us and enjoy it. I imagine that most narcissists are in the middle somewhere. Personally I saw some pieces of it with my wife. I dismissed it because she had been a victim of narcissistic abuse and thought she could never be an abuser. She also had empathy sometimes (but can also turn it off like a switch).
Great Information!! Thank you!! How can you tell...? 9 Clues: 1) You are researching to see if the person is a narcissist or toxic. Your intuition is telling you something is wrong. If you think something is wrong, then it probably is... 2) You justify and excuse things that you know are not okay. Consult with an objective third party. 3) When you try to talk about your concerns, they will love and sex bomb you to avoid the discussion OR they will gaslight, deflect or intimidate you. You don't feel safe bringing up any complaint 4) You feel exhilarated and exhausted at the same time 5) You feel manipulated, lied to, deceived and controlled- as time goes on you should start keeping track 6) Your boundaries are not being respected- you feel you need even more boundaries. Lines are getting pushed back 7) No guilt or remorse or regret. Not focused on how it hurts you- more focused on how it hurts them 8) The relationship brings out the worst in you. Behaving in ways that are uncharacteristic of you. Feel like you are going downhill. The good comes with a huge dose of poison 9)The cycle will go on forever. You can't change them. Cycle continues to repeat itself. It is a cycle of abuse: A) LOVE BOMBING- Make you believe they are your soulmate, missing piece in our life B)DEVALUATION- confusing you, mask comes off, Cognitive DIssonance and Trauma Bonding to make you feel dependent. Schedule of intermittent reinforcement and punishment to confuse, control and manipulate C)EXPLOITATION- Drain you in every way D)DISCARD- wash their hands, find someone else and repeat the cycle.
Damn, you got that so right, for me it was the love bomb and you think this is the girl I fell in love with but it's just a mask and the nasty hateful person is the true person. People need to get out of that because if you stay you will get torn down to such a level you will end up trying to take your life.
i just realized that...i didn't like what i become....a weird paranoid loser. i used to be so confident, trusting. she gives me like an amazing 2 months...then back to the cold shoulder, disrespect. it like turns off and on so fast. my gut had been warning me for years but the love/sex bombing always reeled me in. i feel so bad now. she never wanted to go to my parents or family gatherings and i stopped going as well to be with her. she never cared.
@@jnever9768 that's I believe called crazy making and I'm sorry that you're going through that, I wish you the best on your healing journey and that you find peace.
I also LOVE how you point out a tough truth: You are drugged by the narcissist and should NOT discredit what friends and family who you know you can trust pointing out the narcissist's bad behavior and expressing their concern. If someone has known you for a long time, and has done right by you... why would they want to hurt you by ruining your relationship? They wouldn't.
WORD OF CAUTION # who you are letting in on the narcissist behaviour - I suggest you use a therapist that has no access to this person. Do not consult your friend or a family member that's male - there is a high possibility that he might be lured in to this relationship destroying yours!
Thank you for making this vid. Sadly, there isnt anyone left to ask as an outside opinion. She has forced me to distance myself from my family and i have no friends other than "her friends"
I love that you describe the discard as a gift. So many narc abuse support videos discuss the discard in terms of how to avoid it, how to cope, sometimes even offer suggestions on how to get them to come back, but the discard is really the only kind thing a narcissist will ever do for you. Getting discarded is like a wrongfully convicted prisoner finally getting released. Embrace the discard!
Been out 5 years and yes it was the most painful experience of my life post discard. The only way to get over it, is to go through it! Trust me, there’s a better life at the end of the tunnel.😊
I'm only a week out today. After 14 years, he's already moved to somebody else in. He's been seeing her for six months and I didn't even know. This is so incredibly difficult I am beyond tormented by obsessive thoughts and pain. How did you get through this?? I feel like I'm dying and everywhere I read people just keep saying it takes years it takes years. That is the most daunting thought to think that I will feel like this for years
The more you loved them, the more excruciating the heartbreak and grief will be, because discovering that the person you loved was never real, never existed is like a death, a most terrible loss where the person you thought they were died and they're never, ever coming back, not in this life or beyond. Seeing them without their mask, for who they truly are, is a life-shattering experience. The suffering has been and will be intense as we go through a long mourning process. It will hurt like hell--it's mind-numbing to realize that it was all fake, that any happiness we experienced with them came with a high price tag. For them, life with you was all an act, and they're great actors who follow the exact same script with every single person they encounter and enter into a relationship with. There are few, if any, exceptions/variations to the script or pattern of behavior. No one is or will ever be special to them. They know how to pick their victims, usually sensitive, trusting, loyal, loving, vulnerable, or lonely people who can benefit them in any way, temporarily or long-term.
Your videos are so underrated! They are gems for those who deal with narcissists! I'm watching them over and over again and learn more an more how to deal with such people.
my ex-narc would literally take off her clothes to stop an argument/discussion in its tracks. she said it was a trick to know whether something was worth arguing about, but really it was just a way to avoid accountability.
The last time my ex initiated sex. Was the day a cop showed up with a summons for court because she had credit card that I did not know about. That was the most I've ever paid for sex. First I said no I should have stuck to that but it had been quite a while and I was paying either way. When I look back on it I definitely did not get my money's worth. The whole thing was such a horrible toxic mess. You will get sucked into that toxicity I sure did.
@@AlexanderNixonArtHistory I'm willing to level with you here that there is a very large narcissist movement of women today. There definitely is a narcissist culture poisoning women and men today, especially the 3rd wave feminist movement. But I cannot participate in the gender sectarian hostility that would suggest that either gender is inherently narcissist. That's not a healthy thought my friend. Be careful.
I have really have come to reality of where I am with my mind and emotions, with Lise's coaching videos. She doesn't even touch on the Alcoholic/ narcissist. A Narc is a Narc with or without alcohol. I went back to my alcoholic/friend/lover after a break up, then seeing her game wasn't NEVER going to change. It made me really see her for who she is and that I was just part of her needed supply. I still like to listen to Lise's videos to reinforce a shut out of a toxic relationship. Thank you Lise. You are so concise!
It takes major strength and courage to break it off and never go back. As for me it was so addictive that it took a parent death to wake me up and quit it.
I've watched countless videos about whether or not she's a narcissist, hoping that one of them... JUST ONE... will give me hope she isn't. She is. And it crushes my soul :(
Yup. Experienced this. Things began to break down on her side when I started calling her out on it. A great day…then precisely at the end would 100% of the time enact this manufactured fight. It got boring. I did not know it was an “actual problem” til now after the fact. But i would call her out: “Wow! That was a great and fun day! So, it’s time for you to start a petty fight to cause distance and kill the intimacy created all day!” “Doing anything Sunday? or you gonna deny your having plans but have tentative plans but you’ll “let me know” so you can string me along til its too late to meet when you THEN announce you are ALREADY out with your friends - BUT repeat to me that you had no plans?” “Oh so you wanna meet up on wednesday so i can drive you around 50 miles for free and all will go well and fun BUT THEN right at the end you pick a fight either over something stupid OR literally over nothing at all? Sounds like a fun night TO ME! How about….no.” (There were long trips she wanted me to drive for but every time i made her pay for more than 50% of the gas since i was also driving. More recently she tried to ‘sneak in’ more freebies which i declined - knowing her routine and specifically how she would predictably absolutely ruin the evening. And to be clear: this was not a friendzone situation. We dated and were intimate but something was clearly “amiss” in her attitude. At the time i just had no idea what was behind it all. It seems with these videos i do now) The smalls asks led to BIG ridiculous asks and that was when I drew the line; they were ridiculous on their face and FELT as if she was asking these things just to see if i would say yes. I never did to those big things. But…it was only when i started calling her out loudly and overtly on her PATTERNS of doing these behaviours that she invented a fake argument, broke things off and ghosted me.
How perfectly you know " my narcissist" ! Each word appears to me as if it belongs to my situation. Thank you for making me wise, but it is too late now, I think.
I’m trying to put into words exactly why I appreciate these videos by Lise so much and why I hope that more people discover them and benefit from them. When we have been lured into a trap and preyed upon by a predator, I think it's 100% natural for the mind to obsess over understanding how that happened so that we never allow it to happen again.I think we are all here for that reason. Without these videos, It took me many years to correctly identify what exactly was going on. Here’s what my path to truth looked like: The cluster B DSM categories were frustratingly fuzzy in both traits and certainty of root cause. As such, I found them to be mostly useless. For a while, I thought it might have been psychopathy. This seemed to match the absence of conscience which I had observed. It also seemed to match the heritable nature of the phenomenon which I had observed. (Her mother's side of the family had the trait. Her father’s family was completely normal.) It also had a well identified cause (in brain physiology). However, the more I researched psychopathy, the more I realized that psychopaths have weak pain signals and were fearless. That did not match the vulnerability that I had observed. So psychopathy was NOT a match. For a while I thought it might be Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) The DSM criteria were a match. However, I observed that Marsha Linehan, who was a Borderline, was also a very good person who was strongly driven to help others. This did not match the total absence of a conscience which I had observed. So BPD was NOT a match. NPD seemed to be a match for the observed trait of no affective empathy. However, it seemed to have been defined in a fashion such that it only applied to non-vulnerable status seeking men. It wasn’t until I discovered that 1: vulnerable narcissists exist and 2: all narcissists share a hereditary brain anomaly which prevents them from experiencing affective empathy that I was confident that I had found an accurate explanation for the phenomenon I had observed and sought to make sense of. This explanation was a perfect match for what I had actually observed. It took years for me to figure this out. Even after I figured it out, I was still frustrated by the imprecise way that literally everyone was using the term “narcissism”. Some people just used it to bitch about boyfriends who had left them. There seems to be a huge market for this sort of thing. But this embrace of bias is imprecise and misleading. Some people, like Les Carter, miss the target due to bias for the coping mechanism of connection over aversion. This leads to false positives for disagreeable types and false negatives for agreeable ones. This particular bias is so widespread that it seems to be responsible for the phenomenon of predators using “wokism” to camouflage themselves. This illustrates how dangerous it can be to be carelessly imprecise in the construction of sensory motor predictive models. I believe that many/most therapists share this bias for the coping mechanism of connection. For this reason they are less able to offer good guidance. Worse, all of psychiatry thinks that mental illness is a chemical imbalance to be treated with drugs rather than the natural reaction of a prey animal to being preyed upon by a predator. Finally, some people who make videos about narcissism seem to be still suffering intensely themselves. So, despite good intentions, they lack the ability to help others and inadvertently do more harm than good. In all my years of searching, Lise is the ONLY person I have found who is (1) dedicated to understanding the phenomenon precisely (2) telling people the uncomfortable truth (even though comforting lies are more popular) (3) has genuinely conquered her suffering and therefore has something of great value to offer. For these reasons, I hope that more people can find and benefit from this wisdom.
I've been through 2 relationships that were so toxic from a narcissistic woman. I had no idea back then what a narcissist was. She was a textbook narcissist. The beginning was on FIRE. She was beautiful and would do ANYTHING in bed. She loved my photography and listened to my problems from the past. Things about my depression and why I had it and things that happened when I was young. She also freely told me things about herself. When the abuse started it started slow. The first thing was when we were making the bed. I was doing it wrong and she just suddenly snapped at me and called me an idiot, but laughed about it right after like she was joking, but it hurt. She began to make me feel like I wasn't good enough at ANYTHING. I didn't have a good enough job, so, she said I needed to go back to school or something. So, I went and enrolled in a Technical college. She told me that Technical schools are schools for stupid people that can't get into a University. She went to a University. She would push me away then right when it seemed like I may leave she would pull me back in by starting over with great sex and constant compliments. That felt great and I would be reeled right in. That would last for a few months and it would just seem like everything was great again. Then, it would start all over again with the small insults building into vicious personal insults. At the end of this back and forth she completely discarded me which was such a blessing. I got drunk one night and called her at her parents cussing her out and her family. It was so embarrassing, but what it did was sealed the deal. She tried to hoover me 10 YEARS LATER!!
i am madly in love with your hair . A narcissists i met was the worstperson i have ever met in my life the hate and nastiness she possesed was like none other I ever experienced . How can they ever be happy just devalueing people , person after person such hate coming from one person .
Wow-you are SPOT ON! Bam. It is what it is and it doesn’t change only gets worse. Get out while the getting is good. If you are called crazy, that’s OK! Who cares if crazy calls you crazy! Love does not tear down, devalue, does not ignore concerns etc. look up the definition of Love: do it, it’s worth the look!
I don't know why these videos came up but I'm glad they did.. I was wondering what's going on with my current relationship. It was amazing in the beginning and now just months later it's different. I feel like I've done something wrong but I know I haven't. I didn't really know what she was doing or what to call it. After watching a few of these videos it makes a lot more sense. Getting mad at me for no reason or over something very small then saying all these things that hurt me.. not long after coming back and saying either she didn't mean it she just said those things because she was mad or she was just joking. Now it's happening more often and as hard as it is to let go I know I have to
So true! Great video ! Run! Yes, relationship turns you into that person you don’t like. Don’t stay… twenty some years later - so bad, no better. Forever like Lise says
Ask them to do something for you. Something small. Something you would do for them with no hesitation. If they are narcissistic or otherwise toxic, it will ALWAYS go at least 1 of 4 ways (though sometimes these reactions may compound): 1. They will act as though they didn’t hear you Depending on how long you’ve been in the relationship, you may ask again. If it’s been long enough, you’re likely to drop the request right then and there. 2. They will promise to do it, but never follow through If you ask again or remind them, they will usually have some kind of excuse. In these cases, they will still never actually fulfill their promise. Their excuse is not a reason for lagging, it is the reason they should be absolved from all expectation whatsoever. Often this excuse will be meaningless or an outright lie. If you don’t buy their excuse, and tell them so, you will experience the wonderful segue into reaction 3: 3. An argument will ensue The argument will be your fault. It could be a small back and forth contending against your request, or it might quickly devolve into them screaming at you. You never know which it will be. They might even say outright that you should never ask or expect anything from them. Usually they will express that you are asking too much, hurting them in some way (financially, emotionally, insulting them, etc), or attack your character. The argument will only end when you relinquish your request + apologize, or start ignoring them completely. If you can ignore them long enough, they may apologize to you. However, the conflict will never feel truly resolved. At this juncture they may actually end up giving you what you asked for. Often this does require you admitting that you don’t really need it, or that you would be fine with what they suggested instead. This leads us to reaction 4: 4. They give you what you asked for, BUT There is ALWAYS a catch. It might be small. They show up late with no apology. They buy you what you wanted, but it’s the wrong color, model, brand, etc. They take you where you wanted to go, but pressure you the whole time you’re getting ready because you’re going to be sooo late. Then they want to leave early anyway. It might be worse. They do it out of anger, and make a big display out of it to scare/hurt you. They hold it over your head until you do something for them first. Or, later on, they use it against you. “I did x for you, so you should do y for me.” No matter what, you never actually feel fulfilled, happy, or loved when they do something for you. Somehow, even from the getgo, there was this deep-seated feeling of guilt and fear, this sense that the “special” things they were doing for you weren’t so special at all. Eventually, you become afraid to ask for anything. You’ve been conditioned to believe you deserve nothing. Ironically, or not, the less demands you make, the worse you will be treated. Moreover, Catching a cheating spouse might be difficult, and knowing what local laws say you can and cannot do might be even more difficult. To simplify the process, consider hiring a private investigator to do the sleuthing for you I genuinely appreciate how incredible you are and your work! Thank you for a job well done *Metaspyhub@gmail. com* ,,
Warning to everyone... although this comment is well written, and accurate, it's posted by a spam bot, if you contact the "private investigator" or "hacker" at the emails they list, they will scam you... possibly even blackmail you! You can report it for spam by hitting the 3 dots next to the comment.
You are so very good in relaying the information pertaining to narcissistic abuse and recovery. There is a passion to your communication, which could perhaps come via personal experience (of being a victim of narc abuse). Thank you for sharing. 🤗
This really helps bring the big picture into focus. Especially when we are being blamed for the other's behavior, and even told we are doing exactly what we see being done to us, we question ourselves. This helps me put both the narcissist's behavior and mine in perspective. So clear and well-articulated. A million thanks!
Thank you for this video. I’m in the process of leaving a very toxic four year relationship and I’m a mess really. By the time you reach the absolute end it’s so hard to find the strength to make it out, and the narcissist won’t make it easy. They will show up unexpectedly, poison the people in your circle of friends and family, and tell anyone who will listen what kind of trash you are. But if you can hang on, don’t respond and keep your head down, eventually they will get bored of you. As was mentioned in your video, we should all be so lucky. Thank you for the clarity
Update. How are you doing now? How did you find ways to help yourself heal. Did you regress and go back at all? I'm only a week out and I feel like I'm going to die
Thank you, Lisa. Whenever I hear your words, I feel like someone helped catch me just before I tripped over something. It helps in grounding me. With all sincerity, thank you 🧡🙏🏼
How, how came this channel has only 52 thousands subscribes ? This is one of the best channels regarding Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Peolple, please, SHARE this channel !
I so appreciate your videos. You have a way of communicating a reality check in a calm, realistic and loving way. It hurts me deeply to let her go but I know I have to. God bless you.
I was too weak and confused to leave. I was lucky she ended the marriage and set me free. Still amazes me how I let it happen. I thought I was being strong and put up with her abuse fir the kids and to offer some protection to them. Little did I know she was turning them against me behind my back. Anyway I'm free and I am a lucky one, I would be dead I feel otherwise. My only regret is now my kids are living that nightmare and I cant help them.
Really wish I knew about keeping a calendar of abuse/manipulation earlier on. Eventually got to the point where I felt I needed to keep a journal of our interactions because I was being gaslit so hard. That's when I knew beyond doubt something was very wrong.
I have watched a lot of videos on this topic from people such as Dr. Ramani (who is also very good). This video is probably one of the best I have had the pleasure to watch. It is simple, clear and to the point. It reach people guts which to me is my true-self.
Thank you for this video. I was in a relationship with a NPD/BPD for 10 years and left. I recently started a new one in a similar cycle. Once the toxicity came to the surface, I ended the relationship. I don't regret it one bit now.
You by far give the most clear and accurate descriptions of anyone on YT about the thinking processes that motivate narcissists and the head games narcissists play to manipulate everyone around them. Thank you!
This is so spot on I get goosebumps over and over... IMHO it's the best explanation how a person feels and lives in a toxic relationship... it literally makes my guts churn just like it did in the relationship...good one to go back to whenever I feel melancholy...thanks Lise.
Thank you so much Lise! Several of your comments resonated so completely with my experience in a 4+ year marriage...I have used those very words in trying to express what I have been experiencing! Love bombing, gas-lighting, so much projecting her behavior onto me. I need to trust my intuition and instincts...we are separated but she is doing her best to draw me back...being on her best behavior. Now I know why she is avoiding arranging marriage counseling like I asked...her behavior will be revealed for what it truly is. Very sad 😢
Again, completely accurate. This channel has helped me a lot from this girl that absolutely broke my heart last year. Everything you're saying is exactly what happened to me. You've helped me so much in the healing process.
Let me say, Lise, you are a beautiful woman for putting this out to us empaths who have fallen into this. I've married, and been in a long term relationship, with just such a woman. She reminds me almost daily that she is a victim of a narcissistic mother, yet, she is actually following almost exactly the patterns of narcissism you describe. Being a victim of a mother like that isn't mutually exclusive of her being a full blown narcissist herself. She describes herself as saving the poor, but in my marriage, never has she physically gone out of her way to actually save the poor. If I had your advice over twenty six years ago, when I was young, and other quite normal woman were interested in me, ah, things would have been different. I would have run for my future life. Unfortunately, I have an horrible narcissist father (I've done the Rice test, so apparently I am not one, just supply) so in a very real sense, I've been "pre-groomed" to fall for a narcissist girlfriend then wife. She has with held sex for more than 20 years, as a control measure on her part, and I can say, marrying a manipulative person who lies at the drop of the hat, has been challenging. Nothing I say or do is a satisfaction to her, and when I point out with honesty, that she has trampled over my boundaries, times it seems without count, it matters less to her, than a dust mote in the air. Thank you for giving me perspective on a 20 plus year old relationship that has been a constant, unrelenting erosion on my being, and self worth. I very much appreciate your perspective, and lending that perspective to we who don't know.
Lise, you have an amazing ability to take a very complex and perplexing subject and present it in a way that is very clear and easy to follow. The way you in which you explain the stages of a narcissistic relationship is easy to understand and is dead on accurate! Thank you so much for taking your time to put this together. You are helping thousands! I pray God blesses you abundantly in this quest!
Thanks for knocking me out of self blame and thinking I lost the best person ever. This brought back so many memories and red lights I ran and the "citation" has been hugely expensive in terms of time, energy, opportunity cost, and physical and emotional health ...
Confirmed, it’s all true what you say. We have a daughter together. What a nightmare! No contact is the only way to proceed and get your life back. You will feel better if you are reading this. You will heal.
1. Double standards. 2. DEMANDS 3. HYPOCRISY 4. SLIGHTS 5. DISHONESTY 6. FUTURE FAKING 7. CONTROL 8. PHYSICAL or EMOTIONAL ABUSE 9. TOXIC AVENGER tries to ruin your life with smear and gas lighting. 10. MISERY and LEGAL ISSUES divorce, courts, stress, anxiety. Now, do you wanna go through that process I just outlined? If you have to constantly ask for CHANGES and your rights n needs are being leveraged against you. 🤢🧠💯think about it. Life is herd enough as it is. ❤stay safe, take heart, stay strong and try to relax. Get around good solid friends you trust.” 😉👍💯that one was real good Lisa. 🙏
oh and btw, i saw through it after the first attempt to devaluate me (3-4 month in). Attempt because i read her like a book and showed her that iam happy single. I decided to give it one more go. See if my diagnosis is accurate, see if i can get more of the good rather than the bad side. But the abuse got more intense over time. I think she get annoyed by not beeing able to control me. So in hindsight its not worth it. With what i have seen, i doubt you can control the monster.
She got angry over everything when she had all the right things. Great job and good health. She had an alcoholic family she told me . Took care of herself since 10.. She smacked my face and spat on me 4 months into the relationship. Bc I wouldn't apologize for being insensitive or "making fun of her sczhophrenic sister". Which i would never do that to my lover. It was while she came along to help me move furniture for my hostel business. I thought she was so amazing for volunteering. And I was only trying to be strong for her and reason with her over her family. She basically said she wants no input from me and just wants to vent . I never raised my voice to her. Always calm and compassionate. I saw it coming tho. I saw it.. and unfortunately most women I've dated who are feminist or independent or have family issues always become verbally aggressive towards me . I feel defeated. 38 and lonely and healing from a year and half of break ups and sex and control. She didn't make me spend money like most girls. Why I loved her so much. And she was vegan chef.. but she would get so angry at me messing up any cooked meal. No patience
Interesting comment about their emotional response, shame when being confronted about their behavior. I always thought that by telling his brother that he was having an affair, I created a narcissistic injury. Maybe shame is the response to a perceived injury and he was feeling some sort of guilt for what he was doing. He told me that I was toxic because I was sharing his "faults" when I thought I was sharing his behavior.
Thank you for all the information you provide. I am surely in a marital relationship with a Narc. As soon as we got married it started. Every aspect of my life and character she said she loved soon after marriage became everything she hates.She puts me down every aspect of my character.Worst husband,father,christian, person etc… Everything is always my fault she triangulates me with past relationships. When I object to the mistreatment then I am dramatic too sensetive a drama queen. I know I need to get out but we have a 5 year old daughter and that makes it hard. Channels such as yours have helped me understand what I have been dealing with. Did not have any idea till about a year ago what a narcissist even was.. now the secret is out and I can see every mind trick and abuse more clearly.
Hello I'm not sure if you answer random questions in regards to " strange"?? relationship experiences, but I was wondering if you could take time out and have a think on my personal experience with an old friendship? I won't go into massively the background because I appreciate I'm not under your counsel, and your time is pressing. Basically I bumped into an old family friend who within a two year period of our last sight of each other, had separated from her husband. We got to be acquainted without obviously her husband on the scene. After only selveral weeks of friendship, ( with the mutal idea something could be more permanent???), she told me that she had obtained a very special Christmas present for me. Bearing in mind this was only early October! On Christmas day I opened the long awaited present and found it to be a commissioned self portrait of herself!!! Any thoughts?? Thanks in advance. X
"The relationship brings out the worst in you" it is slowly killing you (me) There is always some hidden cost to me...she is the victim and I am to blame.
Thank you thank you!! You have no idea how much your videos are helping me navigate through this toxic relationship I'm in. I'm trying hard to get out from underneath.
They are in distress but it is all about them. Damn I wish I heard this a long time ago. I forgave again and again under the guise the distressed but I love you without so much have an apology ever. I also wish I knew about all the lies and slander being slung behind your back, even to your own family, lining up everybody for the day when it all blew up to cover their own shameful behaviors. Abandoning her own child with me (I’m stepdad) and remarrying in months. I’m lucky there are some that saw through all of this. They saw behind the mask but never spoke up in 13 years. Amazing how many people do not see it or don’t want to put any time into seeing it and just love the covert narc and the victim story. But then again my ex was diagnosed borderline personality disorder twice but the end result was she left the state to get diagnosed PTSD as she was remarrying and leaving her son behind with me the bad guy. And then her son claims a couple years later that his mom molested him. I wish there was a way to protect people from the destructive cluster B who have no problem lying to therapist or anybody else that might be able to help them. Some do not want help and they just continue destroying people even their own children
at the end of the day people like you and I get walked on and abused, I just want to be the person I am, I want to be kind to others and NOT be treated badly or abused for it.....I have found that doing the simplest kind act for others makes me feel good about myself, there really is nothing that feels better than being nice to others....and yet there are endless people who are evil, manipulative and abusive why cant people just be nice?
Lise, thank you so much for posting these videos. You deserve a million subscribers at least. I can't help but thinking in the way that you stare the camera right in the lens and speak with such passion that you have personal experience with this... One subject you have not covered in this scenario though is children. I was aware of my situation when my kids were still young but the custody laws in the UK would have meant that had I left, I would have probably lost access to my kids. You explain the effects so well, but the UK courts almost always ignore abuse against males unless it is physical and violent. What advice would you give to a father of young children in this situation? Leaving is not an option so what coping mechanisms can you realistically employ?
Eleven minute twenty four second dose of reality for me that's been twenty five years in the making... I think I just needed to write that down to cap off this lesson for myself. Thank you for that!
I don’t think a person who hasn’t experienced the toxic dynamic of living with a narcissist (or working with one) can understand the kind of insidious abuse that it involves. Not even reading the comments.
Lol nobody can put a coherent sentence together we all have short term memory loss (cptsd) and cognitive dissonance....if I had to describe them insidious, sadistic, are a few words..sorry mate, stringing a paragraph together is a bit of a task right now . But yep you think they go low but then you discover there's a whole lower low you can't even fathom.... getting close? Good luck ...
It was definitely like nothing else I've ever experienced in my life. I walked away from the relationship after half a year; my friends and family (whom she was trying to isolate me from) helped me to see the red flags and ultimately walk away.
Cry
Wanted to take a second and say Thank You Lise, I am 53 yrs old male and have been married for 26 years. I am sitting at my desk fighting back tears (have been for weeks actually) I had no idea what covert narcissism was until about 3 weeks ago. My jaw has been in my lap every since! Video afrer video describing the life I've been living! I have since done the full blown UA-cam search "tour" on the subject, just like you have desrcibed so many of us doing. I had moved out of our home about a month ago and stumbled on to the first video shortly afrer that. Funny thing is, I was searching for self help material on communication skills when I found the first Covert Narcissism Video. I had become convinced it was poor communication skills that had been causing all our problems. HA! That had to be it, it only makes sence I would think that after all the years of unknowingly being gas-lighted!! All our conversations turn into confussing unpredicable messes and ending with me pulling my hair out! And yes I do constantly feel like I'm walking on eggshells every day of my life, it's exhausting!! I have been struggling to decide if I should end our marriage for weeks now. As I've been educating myself on the subject I have begun to realized just how difficult it will be to leave her.(So so hard) I have been experiencing withdrawl symptoms in the form or panic attacks, general depression, anxieity, random bouts of anger, uncontrolable crying and a feeling of profound loneliness! Also the thought of my wife in horrible debilitating pain drives me back to her in my head every time. I actully loved her (as best I understand that emotion). Thank you for enlightening me that its not Love being reciprocated and Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! for these videos. Especially this last one. They seem to be my ONLY DEFENCE against the "trap" for now. Continuously, reminding me 1. I'm not crazy 2. Yes, she really is a Covert Narcissist (so surreal)(stunned disbelief). 3. She been this way for 26 years she is NOT going to change! I've decided not to go back, please pray for my resolve!
Post Script: You are very good at what you do, please don't ever stop your making a difference!! Thank you again!
Wade.. Brother listen. Your comment popped out at me. I've been to narcland 3 times now out of a longer list of lovely women. All 3 were horrific experiences - the 3rd of which just ended with me having less than $100 in the bank. But there is some responsibility to be taken on my part and I really hope you hear this. A huge number of us that end up in these situations get hooked through our own inadequacies setup by a problematic parent/situations in childhood. WE are often exactly like the narc in many ways, just with the opposite expression of the problem - call it the opposite polarity. In my case, 3 amazing women came along that, at the time, I was super lucky to have on my arm - all 3 for different reasons. In the hooking phase, your secret inadequacy feels so propped up - but its SUBTLE. I repeat - It's subtle. You have to look for it in yourself. In your case that was a long time ago, but if you're like me, beneath the tears flowing from you now is probably someone that wanted to be good enough and be worth enough to be loved properly and treated with value by this woman. You wanted to be accepted for who you are, how you are. Therein lies the conundrum. In the same way only the narc can heal their wounds, only you can accept that someone who loves and respects himself can expect that the actions and gestures of another person can fill that void. A person who loved and respected themselves never would expect that. Take it from me who just ended his 3rd round with an otherwise amazing woman... If you split with your wife and get back on the scene - DONT look so much for narc traits in future women to avoid. You'll only see what you look for. Instead, look for responses in yourself that uncover your own unhealed traits. What I'm about to write is the most important thing i can... The second, and most harmful narc I encountered wasn't at all attractive, and I passed over the most breathtaking, loving, caring, genuine woman I also had just started dating,- just to be with the narc. Having a long think about 'how' and 'why' I would do something so stupid on a deep level. In that you might find your own healing and also help not repeat the same pattern in the future. Sure be aware - especially of the love bombing and speed they want to bond with you but don't make it the first priority. Because believe me, they are 1000% convincing when they come along and at the beginning they ALWAYS look the polar opposite to the harmful person you experienced previously. Only looking at your own healing and responses to people will save you. In my case, had I done that, the second narc would have been skipped over. I would have had a great relationship with a woman who is now very happily married with a man who is happy to have her. Specifically, someone who loved and valued himself wouldn't have been hooked on the compliments or feelings of being 'special' by the narc and would have chosen the better, more healed of the 2 woman. Really think about that. Take care man. You'll be great after this and definitely are not alone in your experience but you have to go through the fire to shake this off. And you will.
A lovely message you wrote. I hope you find the strength to get on with your life.
The same feeling I have here.
I was married to a man for 16 years, we had 3 children together then got divorced because his undiagnosed ( only just last year confirmed) ADHD was taking a toll on our marriage and me.
I ended up meeting a woman after our divorce and she was my relationship after him.
This cycle of abuse has been going on since day 3 after our first kiss almost 2 years ago.
I have been love bombed, given the silent treatment so many times I can't even count, lied to, no idea if she's cheated, been yelled at, intimidated abandoned, dumped and hoovered.
I never felt we were a couple. A few weeks ago she got mad again at me because I didn't properly respond to her text message.
I wrote see you soon, and when I got to her apartment for dinner, she was pissed off at me, sat there angry and would not smile.it was so uncomfortable so I asked if I should leave she said yes.
So as I was getting my things together, I asked if this is a break up, she said yes.
I left her place, went home and broke down.
Cried myself to sleep. I have no idea if I'll ever hear from her again. It's so painful.
She can pop up any time.
This is the 10th time she's broken up with me in 2 years.
I promised myself I would never go back.
I also am trying to be strong, for myself and my children.
I teach yoga and am a long distance runner, so I have a lot of endorphins in my body....it's an awful mixture of good healthy and happy Vs toxic, painful and feeling pretty much worthless.
Sending love to you ❤️
Wade,
I just got out of a 4 year relationship with a covert narcissist. The first 2 months after the discard were the most confusing and painful of my life. I was so hurt I’d been instantly replaced (be prepared for that) and I found myself suicidal. It was then after talking to a therapist and discovering narcissism that all the pieces finally fit and made sense! ALL OF IT! I highly recommend you listen to the audiobook “psychopath free”. It’s as if the author was narrating my relationship.
The most important part to remember is you’re not alone. It’s confusing, it’s painful and it breaks your freaking heart… but you can get through it. The cognitive dissonance and trauma bond are ABSOLUTE HELL… I’ve heard it’s similar to, or worse, than withdrawals from drugs. I’m not going to lie it’s the worse thing I’ve ever gone though. I’m still going through it… stay strong brother and reach out if you ever want to talk.
@@christianwininger77 Thank you for the kind words and sharing you story. I will defiantly check out your recommendation on the audiobook. Best wishes to you and your future!
Do not let her know you are ended it until you are prepared. Sh&+ will turn ugly instantly and whilst you will want honour and negotiate and discuss a fair break. First she will make you feel like this is the case, but she is just buying time for the artillery that is moving up and going to shit over the 26 years without a single care for any of it.
Money is the first thing they go after, because money is power and power is control.
You need to be prepared with a lawyer who is skilled in NPD separations who can be assertive quickly and not linger about with soft tactics.
Buy a seat belt and strap yourself in coz it is going to be a bumpy ride.
PS as soon as you begin to enforce personal boundaries a narc will leave on their own. The only reason they are with you is because you have never enforced personal boundaries which has allowed them to run their game.
I've been out of it for over 2 years. I second guessed myself a lot. This video confirms it though I'm better off out of it. It really was horrible. I'm working on myself strengthening my boundaries. I can't do that again. It's way better to be alone then it is to lose yourself in a toxic relationship.
If a friend said to you, "My partner is amazing but treats me like absolute shit one day a week" you would tell that person to leave their partner. It doesn't matter what mental illnesses or personality disorders they have. It's not ok. Get out.
I signed a contract to stay.
Yes, friends warning me, business dropping off, self confidence gone, silent treatment, being controlled, hot and cold behaviour, triangulation, isolation, constant requests for money, gifts. Was hoovered back in several times. Each time the same cycle restarted. Since we broke up, business is improving again and self confidence slowly coming back. But when she was nice, she was really nice.
I know that feeling. My ex was one of the most intelligent and sexiest people I had met. But she was also terribly toxic and manipulative. All that good came with so much bad. The funny thing is, I don't even blame her! I don't think she was mean by choice. She was full of insecurities. And her family were just as toxic as she was, if not worse. I blame myself for not walking away in time instead of letting myself be subjected to emotional abuse.
Pretty sure all is by choice:) relationship is a control game to them, everyone can be replaced as soon as the game goes on!
@@corvinusmathias9898
I am going thur this exactly what u describe.
It’s astonishing after reading some of these posts, it’s like we were dating the same exact person.
Yes Matthew, I found it crazy the money/business dropping off too in both narc relationships I've had. For no particular reason. Even during the honeymoon phase both times I noticed just 'things going wrong' and a total drop of usual income that comes in. Sometimes in really peculiar ways. In both situations by the end I was left with under $100 in the bank, dropping from an otherwise really decent income.
The worst part is them constantly accusing YOU of being abusive. I've spent nearly 5 years trying to "fix my wrongs," have a 3 year old child involved, and was discarded on Christmas day this past year. It sucks guys. The constant, every single minute of the day doubting yourself and wishing you could do things differently, when deep down you don't think it would change a single thing.
I can relate mines had an abortion without my confirmed knowledge, suspected but she would always deny she was indeed pregnant then after the act she became angry about everything blamed me for all types of stupid stuff in the mean time I am lost racking my brain trying to figure out what did I do to deserve this sudden change from loving to repulsive behavior, then for the holidays she stopped answering my calls when she finally did she blamed me for everything under the sun, I ask her if she was secretly seeing someone she said no it was just that was the issue couldn't fathom the madness, fast forward to the first week in March and all hell broke loose I found out she did have an abortion and she blamed me for it and didn't take any accountability it ,looking at her you couldn't tell how demonic she is
My ex consistently tried to gaslight me into believing I was physically abusive even though I never laid a finger on her in a violent way. She argued that I was and I just hadn't done it yet. It was very confusing and wasn't until I looked back in retrospect that I realized I had told her my mother divorced my father while she was pregnant with me because he was physically abusive and my mother didn't want me whitenessing it and then turning out like him. What my mother did worked and I would never take my anger out on a woman physically. My ex was trying to destroy my sense of self in everyway imaginable, in some ways she succeeded. I became suspicious when it came to things strongly built into the foundation of who I am and I began to see her insidious patterns.
Hmm. Same eChristmas here... 4 kids, a home and Ijust get discarded a few days just before christmas. Turns out she had a relationship on the side, but was all my fault. Never could do ANYTHING right. Put dishes away the wrong way, didn't do this, didn't do that etc. Her cheating was all my fault too. It's textbook.
@@eduffy4937rt before Christmas..left me and our daughters ---- ..dishes😮... same thing with me...
@@eduffy4937 i hope you get your kids
Your senses will deceive you but the heart never lies. Listen to your heart. One sided relationships are not relationships.
Amen.
Well said!
Wrong. I stayed with a narcissist because my heart loved her. The Bible says that the heart is the greatest deceiver.
This is literally my current significant other..... every single tick... we just had a good weekend and then today we were on the phone i brought up something that upset me and instantly she went for my throat over it i simply address something i was upset about. I noticed early on my father who has been a narc my entire life and her vibed well. They always together made jokes at my expense or ganged up on me and belittled me. She always played this off as not wanting to stick up for me and hurt the relationship as she put it we both cant be on the outs. I then watched her have a meltdown at a wedding i was the grooms man at because i wasnt spending time with her, yet i had all my responsibilities of being in the wedding. She made it a point to tell my entire family i wasnt doing well mental health wise. This got back to me much later.. she has EVERYONE played no one sees the sides i see. She told me before to tell people because im the crazy one who will believe me. Now for a couple months we have reached a stage where she is periodically and randomly freaking out mock ending the relationship when i speak up she comes back. It seems like whenever i feel good and start to consolidate control of any kind she has to take it. Something as small as a comment about an instagram post threw her into a tyriad. Every single time i try to communicate and rationally work through the issues in the relationship she ignores or avoids it. I asked her to stop mocking and belittling me yet she always floats back to harsh and self demeaning comments. The one day she attempted passive aggressive comments on 4 different topics in 20 mins until she hit the button. Then she said i was a lunactic and making it all up and this is why are relationship sucks. Im broke, out of shape, depressed.. the discard is coming accept w her its about not guys but a career..shes obsessed with " finding herself". Shes positioned herself with me a position of utter power she determines if i eat because my money pays my bills , my father also refuses despite living with me to even share a meal with me. The situation is shit and they both sent me to " get help" meanwhile they are ones who have manipulated and pressured me. The love bomb phase was about 1 year with issues in the back half of that year. By the 2nd year the situation got worse the belittling, mocking, manipualtion game started. By year 3 she is actively sorta trying to dump me but its a tactic because its the one thing she can trigger me on. Between year 2-3 lying kicked up. This was justified by saying it was for my own good so i didnt get upset. I tried to speak to people but they sided with her because she said i gave her no choice because i would get so upset ,this is partially true but not one of those topics did she attempt to speak with me 1st.. her mother i believe is the narc that made her. That was another disasterous situation. She has EVERYONE believing her story her friends and her family, my family and even a few of my friends. She does this by going above and over for others..this wins her favors. People are stupid they all think because she does a few nice things for them shes amazing. She does it all for supply, attention and because it benefits her game. I cant believe this is the life i live and i let this happen. Im so stuck and in truth afraid.
If your reading this and you notice things i said happening please leave / she killed me with support and being my " caretaker " or whatever. It was all about making me look bad.. also - whenever i was depressed and having a really low day she wasnt even around she would find and excuse to ignore me or she would literally call and scream at me. Her and my father spent 3 years convincing me i was the issue and the problem 100% insane!
The first time you caused them to feel shame (which can be anytime and entirely unintentional) is probably when the devaluing starts. Always pay attention to what they do and not what they say.
You'll never get clarity. If you feel like you have to be a detective- your correct they're toxic. Normals don't make you try to figure things out again and again.
Yup. I’m sending video to her dude 😂
& thats the simple solution to your confusion...
EXACTLY!
Saw all seven in my last relationship. I can’t remember a good time that wasn’t surrounded by a rage fit, silent treatment, projection campaign, or a ghosting event.
I fell for a narcissist once. Thankfully I studied NLP, hypnosis and body language. I could see when she was lying and in her "crazy" mode. It lasted 3 months and was the craziest roller-coaster relationship I have ever had. The final straw was when she lied about where she had been one evening, the eyes always give a person away. I called her out and then full-crazy came out. I became very calm and watched her try and keep me from walking out. 1st with yelling, then crying, then trying to get intaimate with me. I just stared, un fazed, grabbed my few things and walked out. Turned out she was juggling a bunch of relationships while I was staying at her house. I sleuthed the guy she was with the evening I walked out, called him and he was shocked; to say the least. A few minutes later the crazy girl called me and said, "Do you know what you just did!? You ruined my life!"
I felt quite proud.
Total bro code move. Good looks👍🏻
Nailed it. Taught her a lesson, though she probably learned nothing except how to be more sneaky next time.
Holy shit, your story is EXACTLY like mine except I don’t know body language, NLP, or hypnosis. Also, mine lasted 4 months and she dumped me. I felt betrayed by her lie about where she spent the night but she discarded and devalued me when she didn’t like my reaction.
Get the hell out once you know! But don't tell. The female covert narcissist is the worst. I made excuses and believed it was hormones, or stress or other things. But this is a severe personality disorder and you are dealing with somebody who is extremely manipulative and good at acting but in reality has no empathy and no conscience. This is pure evil!
I did exactly the same I made excuses PMT /hormones or work issues.She would come home and just dump on me for hours for everything that went wrong in her day.I kept thinking I could fix things but I couldn't fix her .She had zero empathy for me ,I actually think she hated me .Everybody was treated better than me , even the tradesmen LOL.She demolished my self esteem, I am recovering slowly.
My ex had this story: her life is a mess, nobody understands her, her colleagues are incompetent, her superiors hold her back out of sheer spite. Her side of the story was all that mattered. She even went so far as to "manage" my reality. She would also occasionally have these brief moments of clarity (or perhaps this too was manipulation?!) and she would say, "Have you had enough already?" as if testing me if I was ready to throw in the towel. Which of course I didn't because I believed it was my job to be there for her. Finally she monkey branched me and moved on. I just wish I had stood up for myself and walked away during the love bombing phase. I once looked for closure, but now I know better: there is no closure! Or rather, there was all the closure I needed: she cut me loose and left me adrift. That is all I need to know.
@@alonzomosley7 Get well friend! Remember it's not about you but about their hatred and anger and emptiness.
I thought for a long time that she just had bad PMS and that's why she treated me like garbage sometimes and well others.
Eventually the window of bad treatment grew larger and larger, and the window of her treating me well grew smaller and smaller.
I eventually just shut down and went into exist mode and wasn't feeding her anymore.
And I still miss her! Sigh. I guess we hold on to the good times, which were GREAT, but few, but we need to focus on the entire picture.
@@davidm4566 Move on and don't look back! The only place you want to have a narcissist is in your rear view mirror.
We all have to remember the diagnosis is irrelevant. You can tell if you're being abused. Life's just too short to put up with that. Get out and be happy man!
That’s a good point
Thank you! Very true! 💔
Not everyone can tell, especially if they were raised by a narcissist and/or are survivors of abuse with a low self-esteem.
I got called a narcissist for getting mad at someone who was lying to me about seeing no one and she I believe has borderline personality disorder .
I was called a
Narcissist by the guy she was on a date with when she got flowers from me . Problem is a lot of people, especially immature ones convince themselves they are victims when they really arent .
So this mentality can lead many people to pretend they are always right and when someone is confused and wants to talk they feel “controlled” or if the other persons gets upset for being lied to in a similar way to the past the immature person will say “oh they are demanding” etc..
Some people are not self aware or just careless due to immaturity and wanting to feel right or due to their own undiagnosed issue, so they will convince themselves they experienced “abuse” when really what they got was more like a predictable frustration from another person. If you hang with someone who lacks empathy or self awareness they will act like you trying to just talk is pointing fingers or being dramatic , when it’s really trying to squash present or future tension .
That guy basically told her exactly what she wanted to hear and doubled down on her bad habits and communication . Ironically I realized he checked off a lot of what a narcissist does and says and I didn’t really totally know that. I called him out on his manipulative actions not realizing I was describing a snrcisssif myself . And when I called her out I described her seeming selfishness but with her I don’t think she was trying to be totally selfish as much as it really was her unable to control her emotions and was undiagnosed and very not self aware . I feel terrible for her and wish she would have the awareness.
Or woman
"Like a drug, you get addicted to the very thing that is slowly and systematically killing you." So well said, and so true. Staying in a relationship like this is an actual ADDICTION as damaging to our heart, mind and soul as heroin, meth, cocaine, alcohol, gambling, etc.
Wow, this video helps so much. I was widowed in 2019 and a year later I decided to open up and in she swooped. Grief does wierd things to you. All you want is your best friend back and I thought I'd found it. It's been almost as bad of an experience as losing my wife to cancer.
Finally she's out and you described her perfectly. I didn't know about narcissism at the time. Even now, she's trying to hoover me back in and even buying property nearby in order to convince the world that she wants to make it work. I've gone no contact and I'm sticking with it no matter what! My boundaries won't be crossed again. The thought of living alone for the rest of my life is like a ray of sunshine rather than go back to that poison roller coaster.
"I can see clearly now the rain is gone" 🎶
Thank you for this video. It sums up the madness quite nicely.
The #1 indication that you are married to a narcissist is their ability to play the silent treatment game for months at a time and hold back information, intimacy and communication so you don't know what's going on with the family or kids, unless you have another source of information.
This usually accompanied by being forced into celibacy.....within the marriage.
💯
So true 🙁
Absolutely, Now flip the switch and go onto no contact and stay there!
@@TheSheila4444 Imitating the same bad behavior as the narcissist is childish and creates no positive outcomes for anyone....
I must keep away from her.... No matter how sad I am... I need the strength
Narcissism is on a spectrum just like autism.
On one side are people that are just a little annoying and usually do have empathy, and on the other side are the ones that have 0 empathy and purposely manipulate us and enjoy it.
I imagine that most narcissists are in the middle somewhere.
Personally I saw some pieces of it with my wife. I dismissed it because she had been a victim of narcissistic abuse and thought she could never be an abuser. She also had empathy sometimes (but can also turn it off like a switch).
This.
Great Information!! Thank you!!
How can you tell...? 9 Clues:
1) You are researching to see if the person is a narcissist or toxic. Your intuition is telling you something is wrong. If you think something is wrong, then it probably is...
2) You justify and excuse things that you know are not okay. Consult with an objective third party.
3) When you try to talk about your concerns, they will love and sex bomb you to avoid the discussion OR they will gaslight, deflect or intimidate you. You don't feel safe bringing up any complaint
4) You feel exhilarated and exhausted at the same time
5) You feel manipulated, lied to, deceived and controlled- as time goes on you should start keeping track
6) Your boundaries are not being respected- you feel you need even more boundaries. Lines are getting pushed back
7) No guilt or remorse or regret. Not focused on how it hurts you- more focused on how it hurts them
8) The relationship brings out the worst in you. Behaving in ways that are uncharacteristic of you. Feel like you are going downhill. The good comes with a huge dose of poison
9)The cycle will go on forever. You can't change them. Cycle continues to repeat itself. It is a cycle of abuse: A) LOVE BOMBING- Make you believe they are your soulmate, missing piece in our life B)DEVALUATION- confusing you, mask comes off, Cognitive DIssonance and Trauma Bonding to make you feel dependent. Schedule of intermittent reinforcement and punishment to confuse, control and manipulate C)EXPLOITATION- Drain you in every way D)DISCARD- wash their hands, find someone else and repeat the cycle.
Damn, you got that so right, for me it was the love bomb and you think this is the girl I fell in love with but it's just a mask and the nasty hateful person is the true person. People need to get out of that because if you stay you will get torn down to such a level you will end up trying to take your life.
ok, i'm in with a covert narcissist. Again.
i just realized that...i didn't like what i become....a weird paranoid loser. i used to be so confident, trusting. she gives me like an amazing 2 months...then back to the cold shoulder, disrespect. it like turns off and on so fast. my gut had been warning me for years but the love/sex bombing always reeled me in. i feel so bad now. she never wanted to go to my parents or family gatherings and i stopped going as well to be with her. she never cared.
Spot on!! Thank you !
@@jnever9768 that's I believe called crazy making and I'm sorry that you're going through that, I wish you the best on your healing journey and that you find peace.
WOW! This video is SO powerful.
The brutal truth delivered with elegance and precision.
So many people would benefit from hearing this.
"EXPECT them to be the perfect poison!"! That's pure genius.
7:05 - "It can look like guilt but it's not. It's shame."
I also LOVE how you point out a tough truth: You are drugged by the narcissist and should NOT discredit what friends and family who you know you can trust pointing out the narcissist's bad behavior and expressing their concern. If someone has known you for a long time, and has done right by you... why would they want to hurt you by ruining your relationship? They wouldn't.
WORD OF CAUTION # who you are letting in on the narcissist behaviour - I suggest you use a therapist that has no access to this person. Do not consult your friend or a family member that's male - there is a high possibility that he might be lured in to this relationship destroying yours!
Thank you for making this vid. Sadly, there isnt anyone left to ask as an outside opinion. She has forced me to distance myself from my family and i have no friends other than "her friends"
Confused and Uncertain! That was what I felt like.
I love that you describe the discard as a gift. So many narc abuse support videos discuss the discard in terms of how to avoid it, how to cope, sometimes even offer suggestions on how to get them to come back, but the discard is really the only kind thing a narcissist will ever do for you. Getting discarded is like a wrongfully convicted prisoner finally getting released. Embrace the discard!
Been out 5 years and yes it was the most painful experience of my life post discard. The only way to get over it, is to go through it! Trust me, there’s a better life at the end of the tunnel.😊
I'm only a week out today. After 14 years, he's already moved to somebody else in. He's been seeing her for six months and I didn't even know. This is so incredibly difficult I am beyond tormented by obsessive thoughts and pain. How did you get through this?? I feel like I'm dying and everywhere I read people just keep saying it takes years it takes years. That is the most daunting thought to think that I will feel like this for years
The more you loved them, the more excruciating the heartbreak and grief will be, because discovering that the person you loved was never real, never existed is like a death, a most terrible loss where the person you thought they were died and they're never, ever coming back, not in this life or beyond.
Seeing them without their mask, for who they truly are, is a life-shattering experience. The suffering has been and will be intense as we go through a long mourning process. It will hurt like hell--it's mind-numbing to realize that it was all fake, that any happiness we experienced with them came with a high price tag. For them, life with you was all an act, and they're great actors who follow the exact same script with every single person they encounter and enter into a relationship with. There are few, if any, exceptions/variations to the script or pattern of behavior. No one is or will ever be special to them. They know how to pick their victims, usually sensitive, trusting, loyal, loving, vulnerable, or lonely people who can benefit them in any way, temporarily or long-term.
You nailed it
You literally get it. I can't believe it.
Your videos are so underrated! They are gems for those who deal with narcissists! I'm watching them over and over again and learn more an more how to deal with such people.
This is so true, they take, take, take until you have nothing left, then discard.
my ex-narc would literally take off her clothes to stop an argument/discussion in its tracks. she said it was a trick to know whether something was worth arguing about, but really it was just a way to avoid accountability.
hahahahahaha chicks
The last time my ex initiated sex. Was the day a cop showed up with a summons for court because she had credit card that I did not know about. That was the most I've ever paid for sex. First I said no I should have stuck to that but it had been quite a while and I was paying either way. When I look back on it I definitely did not get my money's worth. The whole thing was such a horrible toxic mess. You will get sucked into that toxicity I sure did.
@@AlexanderNixonArtHistory
Not chicks...
NARCS!
@@greentooth3097 same difference. Don't believe me? What's the one word that chicks hate to hear AND Narcs likewise hate to hear? "No." :D
@@AlexanderNixonArtHistory
I'm willing to level with you here that there is a very large narcissist movement of women today. There definitely is a narcissist culture poisoning women and men today, especially the 3rd wave feminist movement. But I cannot participate in the gender sectarian hostility that would suggest that either gender is inherently narcissist. That's not a healthy thought my friend. Be careful.
They will never change and it always gets worse as they age. Get out as soon as you can. Much love and light to you❤️
I have really have come to reality of where I am with my mind and emotions, with Lise's coaching videos. She doesn't even touch on the Alcoholic/ narcissist. A Narc is a Narc with or without alcohol. I went back to my alcoholic/friend/lover after a break up, then seeing her game wasn't NEVER going to change. It made me really see her for who she is and that I was just part of her needed supply. I still like to listen to Lise's videos to reinforce a shut out of a toxic relationship. Thank you Lise. You are so concise!
This is the best! Simple and effective. And a great contrast between a normal relationship.
Everything you've said, it's so true. No matter how great the sex is - it's not worth losing your own identity and inner long term happiness x
Yes on the money, time, and then I was useless...so funny. It is just so ridiculous. More thank you...
It takes major strength and courage to break it off and never go back.
As for me it was so addictive that it took a parent death to wake me up and quit it.
I've watched countless videos about whether or not she's a narcissist, hoping that one of them... JUST ONE... will give me hope she isn't.
She is. And it crushes my soul :(
Run for your life dear . As early as possible .
Hadn't she already crushed it?
Yup. Experienced this. Things began to break down on her side when I started calling her out on it. A great day…then precisely at the end would 100% of the time enact this manufactured fight. It got boring. I did not know it was an “actual problem” til now after the fact. But i would call her out: “Wow! That was a great and fun day! So, it’s time for you to start a petty fight to cause distance and kill the intimacy created all day!”
“Doing anything Sunday? or you gonna deny your having plans but have tentative plans but you’ll “let me know” so you can string me along til its too late to meet when you THEN announce you are ALREADY out with your friends - BUT repeat to me that you had no plans?”
“Oh so you wanna meet up on wednesday so i can drive you around 50 miles for free and all will go well and fun BUT THEN right at the end you pick a fight either over something stupid OR literally over nothing at all? Sounds like a fun night TO ME! How about….no.” (There were long trips she wanted me to drive for but every time i made her pay for more than 50% of the gas since i was also driving. More recently she tried to ‘sneak in’ more freebies which i declined - knowing her routine and specifically how she would predictably absolutely ruin the evening. And to be clear: this was not a friendzone situation. We dated and were intimate but something was clearly “amiss” in her attitude. At the time i just had no idea what was behind it all. It seems with these videos i do now)
The smalls asks led to BIG ridiculous asks and that was when I drew the line; they were ridiculous on their face and FELT as if she was asking these things just to see if i would say yes. I never did to those big things. But…it was only when i started calling her out loudly and overtly on her PATTERNS of doing these behaviours that she invented a fake argument, broke things off and ghosted me.
Let her go to hell😅
How perfectly you know " my narcissist" ! Each word appears to me as if it belongs to my situation.
Thank you for making me wise, but it is too late now, I think.
Keep making these videos. Its insane how many of my close friends have been destroyed by narcissists.
I’m trying to put into words exactly why I appreciate these videos by Lise so much and why I hope that more people discover them and benefit from them.
When we have been lured into a trap and preyed upon by a predator, I think it's 100% natural for the mind to obsess over understanding how that happened so that we never allow it to happen again.I think we are all here for that reason.
Without these videos, It took me many years to correctly identify what exactly was going on. Here’s what my path to truth looked like:
The cluster B DSM categories were frustratingly fuzzy in both traits and certainty of root cause. As such, I found them to be mostly useless.
For a while, I thought it might have been psychopathy.
This seemed to match the absence of conscience which I had observed.
It also seemed to match the heritable nature of the phenomenon which I had observed.
(Her mother's side of the family had the trait. Her father’s family was completely normal.)
It also had a well identified cause (in brain physiology).
However, the more I researched psychopathy, the more I realized that psychopaths have weak pain signals and were fearless.
That did not match the vulnerability that I had observed.
So psychopathy was NOT a match.
For a while I thought it might be Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
The DSM criteria were a match.
However, I observed that Marsha Linehan, who was a Borderline, was also a very good person who was strongly driven to help others.
This did not match the total absence of a conscience which I had observed.
So BPD was NOT a match.
NPD seemed to be a match for the observed trait of no affective empathy.
However, it seemed to have been defined in a fashion such that it only applied to non-vulnerable status seeking men.
It wasn’t until I discovered that
1: vulnerable narcissists exist
and
2: all narcissists share a hereditary brain anomaly which prevents them from experiencing affective empathy that I was confident that I had found an accurate explanation for the phenomenon I had observed and sought to make sense of.
This explanation was a perfect match for what I had actually observed.
It took years for me to figure this out.
Even after I figured it out, I was still frustrated by the imprecise way that literally everyone was using the term “narcissism”.
Some people just used it to bitch about boyfriends who had left them. There seems to be a huge market for this sort of thing. But this embrace of bias is imprecise and misleading.
Some people, like Les Carter, miss the target due to bias for the coping mechanism of connection over aversion. This leads to false positives for disagreeable types and false negatives for agreeable ones. This particular bias is so widespread that it seems to be responsible for the phenomenon of predators using “wokism” to camouflage themselves. This illustrates how dangerous it can be to be carelessly imprecise in the construction of sensory motor predictive models.
I believe that many/most therapists share this bias for the coping mechanism of connection. For this reason they are less able to offer good guidance.
Worse, all of psychiatry thinks that mental illness is a chemical imbalance to be treated with drugs rather than the natural reaction of a prey animal to being preyed upon by a predator.
Finally, some people who make videos about narcissism seem to be still suffering intensely themselves. So, despite good intentions, they lack the ability to help others and inadvertently do more harm than good.
In all my years of searching, Lise is the ONLY person I have found who is
(1) dedicated to understanding the phenomenon precisely
(2) telling people the uncomfortable truth (even though comforting lies are more popular)
(3) has genuinely conquered her suffering and therefore has something of great value to offer.
For these reasons, I hope that more people can find and benefit from this wisdom.
I've been through 2 relationships that were so toxic from a narcissistic woman. I had no idea back then what a narcissist was. She was a textbook narcissist. The beginning was on FIRE. She was beautiful and would do ANYTHING in bed. She loved my photography and listened to my problems from the past. Things about my depression and why I had it and things that happened when I was young. She also freely told me things about herself.
When the abuse started it started slow. The first thing was when we were making the bed. I was doing it wrong and she just suddenly snapped at me and called me an idiot, but laughed about it right after like she was joking, but it hurt. She began to make me feel like I wasn't good enough at ANYTHING. I didn't have a good enough job, so, she said I needed to go back to school or something. So, I went and enrolled in a Technical college. She told me that Technical schools are schools for stupid people that can't get into a University. She went to a University. She would push me away then right when it seemed like I may leave she would pull me back in by starting over with great sex and constant compliments. That felt great and I would be reeled right in. That would last for a few months and it would just seem like everything was great again. Then, it would start all over again with the small insults building into vicious personal insults. At the end of this back and forth she completely discarded me which was such a blessing.
I got drunk one night and called her at her parents cussing her out and her family. It was so embarrassing, but what it did was sealed the deal. She tried to hoover me 10 YEARS LATER!!
i am madly in love with your hair . A narcissists i met was the worstperson i have ever met in my life the hate and nastiness she possesed was like none other I ever experienced . How can they ever be happy just devalueing people , person after person such hate coming from one person .
Shaking their control and status, or proving them wrong, severely shake them. Being wrong is just a part of life to us normal individuals 😮
Wow-you are SPOT ON! Bam. It is what it is and it doesn’t change only gets worse. Get out while the getting is good. If you are called crazy, that’s OK! Who cares if crazy calls you crazy! Love does not tear down, devalue, does not ignore concerns etc. look up the definition of Love: do it, it’s worth the look!
I don't know why these videos came up but I'm glad they did.. I was wondering what's going on with my current relationship. It was amazing in the beginning and now just months later it's different. I feel like I've done something wrong but I know I haven't. I didn't really know what she was doing or what to call it. After watching a few of these videos it makes a lot more sense. Getting mad at me for no reason or over something very small then saying all these things that hurt me.. not long after coming back and saying either she didn't mean it she just said those things because she was mad or she was just joking. Now it's happening more often and as hard as it is to let go I know I have to
Excellent, EXCELLENT video.
I'm going to save this one and play it over and over again. 🗝
Oncore! Very good summation of the narc and a stable person entangled. When the entanglement begins, you never see the doom coming.
So true! Great video ! Run! Yes, relationship turns you into that person you don’t like. Don’t stay… twenty some years later - so bad, no better. Forever like Lise says
Ask them to do something for you. Something small. Something you would do for them with no hesitation.
If they are narcissistic or otherwise toxic, it will ALWAYS go at least 1 of 4 ways (though sometimes these reactions may compound):
1. They will act as though they didn’t hear you
Depending on how long you’ve been in the relationship, you may ask again. If it’s been long enough, you’re likely to drop the request right then and there.
2. They will promise to do it, but never follow through
If you ask again or remind them, they will usually have some kind of excuse. In these cases, they will still never actually fulfill their promise. Their excuse is not a reason for lagging, it is the reason they should be absolved from all expectation whatsoever. Often this excuse will be meaningless or an outright lie.
If you don’t buy their excuse, and tell them so, you will experience the wonderful segue into reaction 3:
3. An argument will ensue
The argument will be your fault. It could be a small back and forth contending against your request, or it might quickly devolve into them screaming at you. You never know which it will be. They might even say outright that you should never ask or expect anything from them. Usually they will express that you are asking too much, hurting them in some way (financially, emotionally, insulting them, etc), or attack your character.
The argument will only end when you relinquish your request + apologize, or start ignoring them completely. If you can ignore them long enough, they may apologize to you. However, the conflict will never feel truly resolved.
At this juncture they may actually end up giving you what you asked for. Often this does require you admitting that you don’t really need it, or that you would be fine with what they suggested instead. This leads us to reaction 4:
4. They give you what you asked for, BUT
There is ALWAYS a catch. It might be small. They show up late with no apology. They buy you what you wanted, but it’s the wrong color, model, brand, etc. They take you where you wanted to go, but pressure you the whole time you’re getting ready because you’re going to be sooo late. Then they want to leave early anyway.
It might be worse. They do it out of anger, and make a big display out of it to scare/hurt you. They hold it over your head until you do something for them first. Or, later on, they use it against you. “I did x for you, so you should do y for me.” No matter what, you never actually feel fulfilled, happy, or loved when they do something for you. Somehow, even from the getgo, there was this deep-seated feeling of guilt and fear, this sense that the “special” things they were doing for you weren’t so special at all. Eventually, you become afraid to ask for anything. You’ve been conditioned to believe you deserve nothing. Ironically, or not, the less demands you make, the worse you will be treated. Moreover, Catching a cheating spouse might be difficult, and knowing what local laws say you can and cannot do might be even more difficult. To simplify the process, consider hiring a private investigator to do the sleuthing for you I genuinely appreciate how incredible you are and your work! Thank you for a job well done *Metaspyhub@gmail. com* ,,
Right on!
Yer definitely know that behaviour. I thought it was just me.
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You can report it for spam by hitting the 3 dots next to the comment.
I just asked her to take off her shoes at the door and shut the toilet lid. She wouldn't do either. Life is worth living again now that she is out.
Yes !!! They are Horrible People !!!! You would be better off Loving a Crocodile !!!!
Thank you for this video. It furthered my understanding and validated my experiences.
You are so very good in relaying the information pertaining to narcissistic abuse and recovery. There is a passion to your communication, which could perhaps come via personal experience (of being a victim of narc abuse).
Thank you for sharing. 🤗
This really helps bring the big picture into focus. Especially when we are being blamed for the other's behavior, and even told we are doing exactly what we see being done to us, we question ourselves. This helps me put both the narcissist's behavior and mine in perspective. So clear and well-articulated. A million thanks!
Thank you for this video. I’m in the process of leaving a very toxic four year relationship and I’m a mess really. By the time you reach the absolute end it’s so hard to find the strength to make it out, and the narcissist won’t make it easy. They will show up unexpectedly, poison the people in your circle of friends and family, and tell anyone who will listen what kind of trash you are. But if you can hang on, don’t respond and keep your head down, eventually they will get bored of you. As was mentioned in your video, we should all be so lucky. Thank you for the clarity
Update. How are you doing now? How did you find ways to help yourself heal. Did you regress and go back at all? I'm only a week out and I feel like I'm going to die
Thank you, Lisa. Whenever I hear your words, I feel like someone helped catch me just before I tripped over something. It helps in grounding me. With all sincerity, thank you 🧡🙏🏼
How, how came this channel has only 52 thousands subscribes ? This is one of the best channels regarding Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Peolple, please, SHARE this channel !
I so appreciate your videos. You have a way of communicating a reality check in a calm, realistic and loving way. It hurts me deeply to let her go but I know I have to. God bless you.
Thank you Lise 😊 💗 ...
I was too weak and confused to leave. I was lucky she ended the marriage and set me free. Still amazes me how I let it happen. I thought I was being strong and put up with her abuse fir the kids and to offer some protection to them. Little did I know she was turning them against me behind my back. Anyway I'm free and I am a lucky one, I would be dead I feel otherwise. My only regret is now my kids are living that nightmare and I cant help them.
Soon the kids will grow up and learn about Narcissism and distance themselves from her.Don't worry.
You describe the coverts so perfectly. Better than anyone else on UA-cam.
Thank you.. I am so stressed out now
Grateful for your videos Lise Leblanc! Thank U!
fantastic video, thanks for making it 🙂
Classic, all the boxes got ticked for me. I’m out. So sad.
Really wish I knew about keeping a calendar of abuse/manipulation earlier on. Eventually got to the point where I felt I needed to keep a journal of our interactions because I was being gaslit so hard. That's when I knew beyond doubt something was very wrong.
I have watched a lot of videos on this topic from people such as Dr. Ramani (who is also very good). This video is probably one of the best I have had the pleasure to watch. It is simple, clear and to the point. It reach people guts which to me is my true-self.
Thank you for kind words, I’m happy to hear that my content resonates with you!
Thank you for this video. I was in a relationship with a NPD/BPD for 10 years and left. I recently started a new one in a similar cycle. Once the toxicity came to the surface, I ended the relationship. I don't regret it one bit now.
You by far give the most clear and accurate descriptions of anyone on YT about the thinking processes that motivate narcissists and the head games narcissists play to manipulate everyone around them. Thank you!
Awesome vid! You hit home with a lot of the basics that people overlook but new subscriber...love the channel
This is so true , I was in denial for so long think I’ve finally accepted it for what it is .
Wow you are one of the best thank you 🙏
This is so spot on I get goosebumps over and over... IMHO it's the best explanation how a person feels and lives in a toxic relationship... it literally makes my guts churn just like it did in the relationship...good one to go back to whenever I feel melancholy...thanks Lise.
Thank you so much Lise! Several of your comments resonated so completely with my experience in a 4+ year marriage...I have used those very words in trying to express what I have been experiencing!
Love bombing, gas-lighting, so much projecting her behavior onto me. I need to trust my intuition and instincts...we are separated but she is doing her best to draw me back...being on her best behavior. Now I know why she is avoiding arranging marriage counseling like I asked...her behavior will be revealed for what it truly is. Very sad 😢
Lise, everything you say has happened to me. It's unbelievable.
I’m sorry to hear that you’ve been through these types of experiences. I wish you healing and happiness!
Every video of yours I've watched in the past 10 days HITS THE NAIL ON THE HEAD 100%.
Thank you for your channel 🙏🏻.🙏🏻🙏🏻
I appreciate you taking the time to provide positive feedback🙏
Again, completely accurate. This channel has helped me a lot from this girl that absolutely broke my heart last year. Everything you're saying is exactly what happened to me. You've helped me so much in the healing process.
Let me say, Lise, you are a beautiful woman for putting this out to us empaths who have fallen into this. I've married, and been in a long term relationship, with just such a woman. She reminds me almost daily that she is a victim of a narcissistic mother, yet, she is actually following almost exactly the patterns of narcissism you describe. Being a victim of a mother like that isn't mutually exclusive of her being a full blown narcissist herself. She describes herself as saving the poor, but in my marriage, never has she physically gone out of her way to actually save the poor. If I had your advice over twenty six years ago, when I was young, and other quite normal woman were interested in me, ah, things would have been different. I would have run for my future life. Unfortunately, I have an horrible narcissist father (I've done the Rice test, so apparently I am not one, just supply) so in a very real sense, I've been "pre-groomed" to fall for a narcissist girlfriend then wife. She has with held sex for more than 20 years, as a control measure on her part, and I can say, marrying a manipulative person who lies at the drop of the hat, has been challenging. Nothing I say or do is a satisfaction to her, and when I point out with honesty, that she has trampled over my boundaries, times it seems without count, it matters less to her, than a dust mote in the air. Thank you for giving me perspective on a 20 plus year old relationship that has been a constant, unrelenting erosion on my being, and self worth. I very much appreciate your perspective, and lending that perspective to we who don't know.
She's super concise & to the point, WOW
I found to wake up to narcissism is the first step yet not easy when its gone on for so long you make excuses.
Lise, you have an amazing ability to take a very complex and perplexing subject and present it in a way that is very clear and easy to follow. The way you in which you explain the stages of a narcissistic relationship is easy to understand and is dead on accurate! Thank you so much for taking your time to put this together. You are helping thousands! I pray God blesses you abundantly in this quest!
Thanks for knocking me out of self blame and thinking I lost the best person ever. This brought back so many memories and red lights I ran and the "citation" has been hugely expensive in terms of time, energy, opportunity cost, and physical and emotional health ...
This lady has got this mastered about female narcissist shes straight the point dont waste any time
Confirmed, it’s all true what you say. We have a daughter together. What a nightmare! No contact is the only way to proceed and get your life back. You will feel better if you are reading this. You will heal.
1. Double standards. 2. DEMANDS 3. HYPOCRISY 4. SLIGHTS 5. DISHONESTY 6. FUTURE FAKING 7. CONTROL 8. PHYSICAL or EMOTIONAL ABUSE 9. TOXIC AVENGER tries to ruin your life with smear and gas lighting. 10. MISERY and LEGAL ISSUES divorce, courts, stress, anxiety. Now, do you wanna go through that process I just outlined? If you have to constantly ask for CHANGES and your rights n needs are being leveraged against you. 🤢🧠💯think about it. Life is herd enough as it is. ❤stay safe, take heart, stay strong and try to relax. Get around good solid friends you trust.” 😉👍💯that one was real good Lisa. 🙏
i have spend hours researching. this video was the single most helpful. Its exactly what i needed after leaving
oh and btw, i saw through it after the first attempt to devaluate me (3-4 month in). Attempt because i read her like a book and showed her that iam happy single. I decided to give it one more go. See if my diagnosis is accurate, see if i can get more of the good rather than the bad side. But the abuse got more intense over time. I think she get annoyed by not beeing able to control me.
So in hindsight its not worth it. With what i have seen, i doubt you can control the monster.
She got angry over everything when she had all the right things. Great job and good health. She had an alcoholic family she told me . Took care of herself since 10..
She smacked my face and spat on me 4 months into the relationship. Bc I wouldn't apologize for being insensitive or "making fun of her sczhophrenic sister". Which i would never do that to my lover. It was while she came along to help me move furniture for my hostel business. I thought she was so amazing for volunteering. And I was only trying to be strong for her and reason with her over her family. She basically said she wants no input from me and just wants to vent .
I never raised my voice to her. Always calm and compassionate. I saw it coming tho. I saw it.. and unfortunately most women I've dated who are feminist or independent or have family issues always become verbally aggressive towards me . I feel defeated. 38 and lonely and healing from a year and half of break ups and sex and control. She didn't make me spend money like most girls. Why I loved her so much. And she was vegan chef.. but she would get so angry at me messing up any cooked meal. No patience
She sounds a bit of borderline as well
Interesting comment about their emotional response, shame when being confronted about their behavior. I always thought that by telling his brother that he was having an affair, I created a narcissistic injury. Maybe shame is the response to a perceived injury and he was feeling some sort of guilt for what he was doing. He told me that I was toxic because I was sharing his "faults" when I thought I was sharing his behavior.
Essential information for everyone. Great work. Thank you xo
Thank you for all the information you provide. I am surely in a marital relationship with a Narc. As soon as we got married it started. Every aspect of my life and character she said she loved soon after marriage became everything she hates.She puts me down every aspect of my character.Worst husband,father,christian, person etc… Everything is always my fault she triangulates me with past relationships. When I object to the mistreatment then I am dramatic too sensetive a drama queen.
I know I need to get out but we have a 5 year old daughter and that makes it hard. Channels such as yours have helped me understand what I have been dealing with. Did not have any idea till about a year ago what a narcissist even was.. now the secret is out and I can see every mind trick and abuse more clearly.
Brilliant teacher, thankyou. X
Hello
I'm not sure if you answer random questions in regards to " strange"?? relationship experiences, but I was wondering if you could take time out and have a think on my personal experience with an old friendship?
I won't go into massively the background because I appreciate I'm not under your counsel, and your time is pressing.
Basically I bumped into an old family friend who within a two year period of our last sight of each other, had separated from her husband. We got to be acquainted without obviously her husband on the scene.
After only selveral weeks of friendship, ( with the mutal idea something could be more permanent???), she told me that she had obtained a very special Christmas present for me. Bearing in mind this was only early October!
On Christmas day I opened the long awaited present and found it to be a commissioned self portrait of herself!!!
Any thoughts??
Thanks in advance. X
"The relationship brings out the worst in you" it is slowly killing you (me)
There is always some hidden cost to me...she is the victim and I am to blame.
Before I came to this video, I told people how bad the relationship was, and it was bringing out the worse in me. I knew something was wrong.
Thank you thank you!! You have no idea how much your videos are helping me navigate through this toxic relationship I'm in. I'm trying hard to get out from underneath.
They are in distress but it is all about them. Damn I wish I heard this a long time ago. I forgave again and again under the guise the distressed but I love you without so much have an apology ever. I also wish I knew about all the lies and slander being slung behind your back, even to your own family, lining up everybody for the day when it all blew up to cover their own shameful behaviors. Abandoning her own child with me (I’m stepdad) and remarrying in months. I’m lucky there are some that saw through all of this. They saw behind the mask but never spoke up in 13 years. Amazing how many people do not see it or don’t want to put any time into seeing it and just love the covert narc and the victim story. But then again my ex was diagnosed borderline personality disorder twice but the end result was she left the state to get diagnosed PTSD as she was remarrying and leaving her son behind with me the bad guy. And then her son claims a couple years later that his mom molested him. I wish there was a way to protect people from the destructive cluster B who have no problem lying to therapist or anybody else that might be able to help them. Some do not want help and they just continue destroying people even their own children
at the end of the day people like you and I get walked on and abused, I just want to be the person I am, I want to be kind to others and NOT be treated badly or abused for it.....I have found that doing the simplest kind act for others makes me feel good about myself, there really is nothing that feels better than being nice to others....and yet there are endless people who are evil, manipulative and abusive why cant people just be nice?
Thanks so much for your help. I didn't know what a narcissists was until I watched your videos. Thanks again.
Lise, thank you so much for posting these videos. You deserve a million subscribers at least. I can't help but thinking in the way that you stare the camera right in the lens and speak with such passion that you have personal experience with this... One subject you have not covered in this scenario though is children. I was aware of my situation when my kids were still young but the custody laws in the UK would have meant that had I left, I would have probably lost access to my kids. You explain the effects so well, but the UK courts almost always ignore abuse against males unless it is physical and violent. What advice would you give to a father of young children in this situation? Leaving is not an option so what coping mechanisms can you realistically employ?
I left and got equal custody. The legal default is equal custody - they don't call it custody.
Was told I am the Narcissist by my Ex. That's why I'm here.
And? Any conclusions?
if your here , your probably not... they dont question themselves, .
Also U accepted her view and came to check, even uf you dont agree .
I didn't even get a good beginning lol makes it easier to walk away
Eleven minute twenty four second dose of reality for me that's been twenty five years in the making... I think I just needed to write that down to cap off this lesson for myself. Thank you for that!