Conservatives Hate Trans People | CHANGE MY MIND
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- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
- DEBATE: Destiny goes on campus to debate students on whether or not conservatives hate trans people
The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of The Pennsylvania State University.
Shout out to Shaved, Sud, Tyler, and Sean for production assistance. Follow Destinys camera duder on Twitter: TheJHP
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00:00 Intro
02:56 Student 1 debate
13:28 Student 2 debate
22:44 Student 3 debate
29:27 Student 4 debate
#destiny
#politics
#debate
Wokeness Has Gone Too Far | CHANGE MY MIND
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As a gay guy, thank you for also speaking up for trans people. I woke up to this and it's disgusting and I'm not even a liberal. I don't lean either side. Right or Left but yes conservatives are very homophobic and transphobic. I didn't see it going this far. This is sick. Again, thank you Destiny. Saving lives
Student 1 shouldve brought an example of healing crystals moms, sure we all can agree that they do harm to their child with their pseudo science but is it because they hate their child and want them to suffer? Or is it bevause they're stupid and dont know how to properly help a person?
I mean remember when FOX NEWS of all places showed pro trans footage with specifically trans kid? I think its fair to say that atleast SOME conservatives genuinely care about ppl but think banning things is a way to minimize the harm
The fundamental flaw in your argument is that you assume trans is something you are...Its not..Its something you do based upon multiple different mental disorders..Such as Gender dysphoria, autogynephilic, incel depression, autism, or simply being told its a choice. The main problem is all rational thought goes out the window with this issue. At no time in history has it ever been considered a good thing to enable a mental disorder..You wouldnt do it with anorexia, binge eating, drug use, schizophrenia, etc....Because its always been the case that when you enable a mental it affirms the person in the short term, but in the long term only hurts them. This happens to the extreme when enabling transgender choices which causes in the long term a 20x higher self deletion rate, multiple times the likelihood of drug addiction as well as other mental disorders..And that is just the mental side of it. Once you get to the drugs the amount of medical side effects are too long to list here...And then if you go to surgery it gets even worse...Now if it was just adults that would be sad..But the problem is telling small children that they can simply choose to be a boy or girls when these kids are at the same age that they believe in imaginary friends, putting them down a path of all the problems listed above..There have always been mental disorders, but transgenderism is the only one that is promoted as a choice to the youngest and weakest among us.
@@ezekiel5687 The fundamental flaw in your argument is that you assume trans is something you are...Its not..Its something you do based upon multiple different mental disorders..Such as Gender dysphoria, autogynephilic, incel depression, autism, or simply being told its a choice. The main problem is all rational thought goes out the window with this issue. At no time in history has it ever been considered a good thing to enable a mental disorder..You wouldnt do it with anorexia, binge eating, drug use, schizophrenia, etc....Because its always been the case that when you enable a mental it affirms the person in the short term, but in the long term only hurts them. This happens to the extreme when enabling transgender choices which causes in the long term a 20x higher self deletion rate, multiple times the likelihood of drug addiction as well as other mental disorders..And that is just the mental side of it. Once you get to the drugs the amount of medical side effects are too long to list here...And then if you go to surgery it gets even worse...Now if it was just adults that would be sad..But the problem is telling small children that they can simply choose to be a boy or girls when these kids are at the same age that they believe in imaginary friends, putting them down a path of all the problems listed above..There have always been mental disorders, but transgenderism is the only one that is promoted as a choice to the youngest and weakest among us.
@ezekiel, would you like me to post some links showing that parents have discovered paedophilic books that are being shown in schools because of The "acceptance" of this nonsense?
I like that Destiny included entire arguments instead of trying to only get visual 'dunks.' Over the years he works actively to treat opposing viewpoints with fairness vs becoming ideologically pigeonholed.
it helps the opposing view isn't nuts
@Poopoo Peepee examples?
@Poopoo Peepee I think you can be strategic and also good faith. One doesn't negate the other.
@Poopoo Peepee as someone who disagrees with Destiny I have to say he usually is a fair debater
@Poopoo Peepee Both sides use dishonest "debate tactics" all the time. Destiny sometimes uses them, but he engages in good faith far more than any other debate pundit I know of. I can't think of a single right wing or conservative pundit with even close to the amount of good faith engagement with the ideas of the other side. Not Tim Pool, Ben Shappiro, Steven Crowder etc. Though if you have suggestions for good right-wing or conservative commentators I'd be interested in checking out their points.
the production quality has drastically increased since the start of these
how so?
@@impastorr1354 intro
@@impastorr1354 Better microphone that doesn’t pick up any excessive background noise (won’t doubt that there’s some post editing too), very good framing and camera shots, and just overall higher quality equipment.
Just look at the one that destiny did a year ago
Soooo true. It looks fantastic
Thanks friends :)
“Insulin doesn’t occur naturally in nature.” I have news for you man.
I never really understood any sort of argument resembling "x doesn't occur in nature", as if all things in nature good and all things artificial bad?
I think homie might have ment, medical insulin ready to inject doesnt occur in nature. I think that's what he ment.
@@WiloPolis03 it is a typical christian logical fallacy. The base is of rational design and god been the creator hence perfect hence good. Of course only when nature "is good" when "is bad", it works in mysterious ways
@@poisonvolkswagon9431 Bruh you're talking to a devout Christian lol. Not all Christians are anti-science
@@WiloPolis03 Never intended to state that all Christians are anti-science
First guy is so caught up on semantics that it defeats any point he was trying to make. Hate, by definition, is just an intense dislike. This "intent to harm" definition is his own definition of hate that he is stumbling over.
Destiny was very wrong on this. Why is destiny using broad definition for hate? With his definition you can clearly make an argument that 'trans woman hate cis woman' or that " conservatives hates all women" for abortion issues. Heck anybody that doesn't support lgbtq now apparently 'hates' them. That don't makes sense and destiny is fishing for shit here.
I could not agree more. Like destiny said that bar is set way too damn high.
Not really, it was a crowderesque clickbait prompt that openly invites semantic discussion. It's not like Destiny was using the dictionary definition of the word himself, but rather using a weaker definition that he just came up with. First guy wasn't the most well spoken, but he was certainly right to try and get destiny to clarify his position and push him on his provided definitions of words instead of just accepting them as is.
RIght. Like when white nationalists say they just want to send all black people back to Africa, does he think they don't hate black people?
@A Right about what though? mans said that he wasn't sure if banning insulin would cause harm to diabetics. Lil bro just doesn't wanna be wrong lol.
His hair is looking ethereal, his power level grows
Destiny has unlocked super Saiyan royal blue
Looks horrible to be honest, buddy is 35
Smart dude but no aesthetic sense
@@dream1430 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@dream1430 what? It looks good tf lol? I’m assuming you’re one of those types who thinks anything colorful is “bad taste”
@@limitbreak2966 bro looks Marie Kanker from Ed Edd & Eddy
You gotta be under 20 if you think that looks good, or maybe you’re still in you league phase
It was awesome to see him on campus and to get some awesome discussion going. It's rough at PSU in terms of anything productive from speakers, and seeing Destiny in person kinda made my whole semester. Stuffs awesome
Keyword is discussion, I love how they're just talking, no ones getting upset
Her*
Totally awesome
:)
Damn i wish i saw him, i didnt know he was on campus until it was too late
These guys have better manners than the lefties in steven crowder
Leftists are angry by nature
So? When talking about the existence of a group of people why is civility your biggest concern
@@jack04091 civility is essential in a healthy society
@@jack04091 in serious debates, civility is the first thing you need to have, lad
@@jack04091 Because no matter how good your point is, if you lack civility nobody is going to listen to you except the people who agree with you.
A leftie screaming "my choice" isn't as appealing as rationally discussing why they believe it is their choice.
A rightie screaming trans people are harming society and our children isn't as appealing as rationally discussing their concerns with the trans movement.
If either side lost their civility*, the respective side will dismiss the points and we see this constantly. That's why discussions like this are refreshing and informative. Points of concern on both sides are mostly clear and allows you to come to your conclusions with a better understanding of the situation & how to progress.
Destiny’s version is better than Crowder’s. Change my mind.
Fucking watch it.
@@koolarooo Your abuse is sick.
I don't love you
I’ve never received love from you
That doesn't work eeeeeeeeeeeither.
8:06 Guy says he's "not sure" that banning insulin would be a form of harm.
The cope is strong with this one.
@Poopoo Peepee ok poopoo peepee lmao
to be fair, he had to “cope” because an asinine comparison was made. comparing a proven, measurable physiological issue with a proven, non-harmful intervention to a non-proven psychological issue with an inconsistent and physiologically damaging “solution” is nonsensical
😂😂😂
@@DavidJones-ot8qu "non-proven psychological issue with an inconsistent and physiologically 'damaging' solution"
How are you so unbiased my guy? It's amazing
If insulin is causing more harm than good then banning it would be fine.
These are great. I love how (for the most part) respectful these debates/conversations are; each person is clearly listening to the other debater, as opposed to multiple people screaming over each other on Discord.
Only problem is none of them are actually conservatives
The first conversation is very important. When we argue about topics but define terms differently, it’ll be almost impossible to solve issues
When you define terms in an extreme manner (hate only occurs if you murder someone), then it’s not a debate.
U can tell he actually cares about what hes talking about .
I hope that this passion inspires other people towards actual solutions .
Agreed
The only sane solution is to allow trans affirming care to people over whatever the age of censent is in your area. If you don't hold the capacity to decide whether or not you actually want a dick inside you, or yours inside someone else, than surely you also don't possess the capacity to decide you no longer want your dick.
You new here?
@@lampad4549 nothing wrong with being new here
Nah he’s just trying to win the argument
I really wonder if that guy actually thought that cutting off someone's insulin wasn't harm genuinely or he just said it to be consistent to what he would say for trans people.
Lmfao. Insulin deprivation leads to the death of a diabetic. Cutting off chemical castration to a mentally ill person leads to? Nothing. Nothing happens.
If your argument is "it leads to death because they mental patient will kill themselves" you have no argument.
i don’t think the comparison was apt, regardless. diabetes is a proven, measurable issue that has a proven, non-harmful (if used correctly) solution. neither of these are true for trans ppl. transness as a concept has not been proven, and trans care as it stands today is both 1) physiologically harmful and 2) highly inconsistent with its results
"Transness as a concept has not been proven" lmao the fuck, what would constitute proof in your eyes if the current available info on the topic isn't enough?
Actually type 1 diabetes can be managed without exogenous insulin it's just really tricky and risky. It's actually a perfect analogy because you're asking someone to live a super inconvenient life because of your arbitrary objection to you taking a hormone
@@DavidJones-ot8qu hey that's a whole lot of bullshit you just spouted there bucko
It would be cool for destiny to talk with different people that had puberty blockers during adolescents or other forms of gender affirming care. I feel like too many ppl talk about it abstractly with little to no input from people that have actually experienced. That or they find someone with the exact experience they want to push their narrative and focus on them at the expense of everyone else.
I’ve always thought this as well. We’re always talking for Trans people and not actually getting their input on anything? But then again those that do speak out are called all sorts of names, told they’re mental, groomers and pedos
Do you have an opinion on Eugenia Cooney, the content creator with severe anorexia? She doesn't think she needs help. She thinks she's beautiful and fulfilled. Should we listen to and affirm her since she says she's fine?
yeah but its the same for the other side too. look how many trans people came out and said " I regret the change" or " I regret pubity blockers" etc. They are called fascist right wing bigots and ignored even though they now live the rest of their lives with these issues that the left pretend don't exist@@dominiquebaby678
@@allergictoliberalismwhat does the medical literature and study data say about affirming anorexia vs affirming gender? do you notice a difference?
@@FirstRecords204 yeah, and medical literature also said that lobotomies were ok and that r*ping women with dildos cured them of "hysteria". But go on, tell me more about the infallibility of medical science.
I love this format for you Destiny. I think sometimes its really important to get out in the world with people, boots to the ground so to speak.
FINALLY August let out the secret stash, god bless this man
It's frightening to imagine a kid, whom already has parents that love them enough to try and help them get treatment for their problems, being taken from their parents by the state and given to foster parents whose solutions are going to effectively make the kids problems worse. Regardless of where you stand on any trans issues, that sounds like Hell for the poor kid.
Really does 💯
It doesn't sound like hell if you hate trans people! Am I right?
What fantasy world are you describing?
It’s frightening to imagine a situation where a teacher could completely bypass parental authority and knowledge in order to try and address what is alleged to be a mental condition by withholding information to the parents and sharing discussions and material with the kid without the parents’ consent or knowledge.
@Mant111
The Fantasy land of Florida:
“The Florida House of Representatives has approved a bill that would allow state courts to intervene in custody disputes and remove transgender children who are receiving gender-affirming care from supportive families with whom they live. In extreme circumstances, legal experts say this may even “involve the state taking physical custody of a child.”
You can tell Destiny actually listens to the people where as Crowder when he did this is just waiting for his turn to go for a slam dunk.
Was Crowder wearing a dress at the time?
@@CEWIII9873 : I don’t understand
@@KilimnikGenya look it up, lazybones
nah he was beating his pregnant wife
Not that I think I make a difference but I really enjoyed these conversations. They were very respectful and each side got their points across. Thank you for what you do.
It's amazing to see how destiny picks the arguments he is taking vs the ones he'll just let pass. Some of these students sad some insanely wrong stuff, loaded with assumptions and misinformations, and destiny would just be "alright yea, let's focus on this thing most important to the core argument"
Not really. It just makes you ignorant, entitled alt-left libtards mad he doesn't cave into your crazy ideology. The usual anime pfp tells me all I need to know as a person.
@@Dronetek Nice b8 m7
Insulin is absolutely a hormone
These people are insane. They'll say like one sentence that needs 12 paragraphs to break down how wrong it is and then keep trying to steamroll you with more bs before you can even respond. That's why these debates are stupid. If you literally locked down a conservative in a padded room and forced them to watch a point by point breakdown of how literally everything they think they know about trans people is wrong their tiny grug brains would probable explode.
You can see he’s more understanding cause the kids are young
@@KitchenSinkDefence did he say insulin isn't a hormone?
The camera and audio setup in this is amazing for being a pop-up change my mind shack on a college campus. The podcast is gonna be amazing.
It's really cool to see someone on the left actually talking about trans people in good faith. I'm so tired of the mainstream left just shutting down conversations like this by screaching about bigotry. The normative position, unfortunately in this country, is to be transphobic. Telling those folks they're bigots instead of having open conversations like this is regressive.
This seems like a pretty self-serving (or bad faith!) comment which positions every anti-trans person as attempting to engage in in good faith conversation about trans issues. Give me a break. Screech at someone, get screeched at back. Is that fair? I’m not saying the concern has no merit, but I’m positive it’s overblown.
Also, transphobia is the normative position among *conservatives.* Dems are pretty pro trans. This disparity is much more due to bad faith engagement among right wing leaders and media than bad faith engagement among left wing leaders and media. So it was for black people, so it was for gay people, so it is for trans people. As the lunacy largely proliferates from the top, by people who likely know better but benefit too greatly from it to stop, you could say that they are the ones deserving of scorn, but IDK, the voters kinda suck too.
I mean, I think that is likely why that’s the normative position imo. I’ve discussed these subjects with trans activists and they can get irritatingly disingenuous and resort to insults.
Girls have VV and boys have pp. It's that simple my dude. If you have anything else it's an exception and not the rule.
@@VoidofBerserk So? There seem to be a lot of people saying the exception does not exist, shouldn't exist, or isn't allowed to exist, that's where the problem lies
@@ska042 exception is the intersex people and problem arises when non intersex people are used as certain people to mix them with normal girls and boys. And then they say stupid stuff like all of this is just on spectrum.
The intro is top tier. well done August
When the bud light thing happened I pointed out that one trans person on advertising was not a big deal. Quite a few of the responses were "one is too many".
That fiasco is puzzling
They are worried about their kids being turned trans, but are their kids consuming lots of bud light?
Either way I might be looking to buy BUD stock soon lol
that shit was sto stupid. I'm against the dude being a spokesperson for women on international women's day but the attacks and cancelling for bud light shit was just too much. Not liking Dylan for what he has done or represents fine, constantly dogging sponsors and livelyhood not ok.
Some conservative dude literally attacked a section of bud and Busch light 😂😂😂
Based
Student 1 kinda broke their own argument at the end. If we can say racism exists on a gradient (wanting to lynch vs. not wanting to hire) and still call both people racist, then we could also say hatefulness exists on a gradient, and call people hateful.
To steelman him, he would not reference hate as the spectrum. Hate would be the word to describe someone at the furthest end of the spectrum of another term like Dislike or distaste. So you can dislike or have a very minimal amount of distaste, his issue is that the term Hate seems to describe the furthest end of that spectrum in common parlance and would prefer it to stay only referring to actions matching that same level.
Is the type of hate behind a white on black racist act uniquely different from other kinds of "Hatred" ? What if someone hates a group of people who share the same color, but perhaps a different nationality. Is text book "Racism" the same kind of hatred there? Or something utterly unique within the notion of "Hatred"?j
If there IS a gradient here, then perhaps, in order to help everybody understand it better....we could legitimately establish the hierarchy of said "Gradient" instead of continually implying, over and over, that it merely exists....
As though this is a ground breaking phenomenon in 2023 ❤
To an extent yes, but racism implies a binary, yes or no; hate implies an intensity. You can be mildly racist, but you can't mildly hate. That's just disliking. There is a gradient to both sure but hate has a bottom end where it falls off into a milder term. Slightly pedantic, but I like to be precise.
I hate his hair. And thats morally okay with my use of the word hate.
@@taez_ Fair steelman, I agree that there's a huge imprecision problem here. I definitely see how most people might see hate as being that morally loaded
Destiny fails to see that people who are against childhood transition is that they think the treatment itself is the harm
Cancer treatments are harmful. Should we can them?
Please do more of these, this is without a doubt my favorite form of debate.
I'm so happy he's putting more of an effort into his appearance. The fit is on point 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Best opening I've seen yet, excellent job.
Great conversations.
Destiny doesn't define hate then tries to debate everything surrounding the word...When crowder does these, hes very clear on the definition of words before the debates start.
I've been waiting for this, August went all out.
Guess they'll get to keep their job. For now.
Great content. Great editing. Great vid overall. Keep it coming.
Color pfps unite
Student 1 does a good job pointing out how Destinys use of the word "Hate" is inherently problematic as a starting point for a good faith objective debate. Destiny does an okay job acknowledging this aspect objectively but continues to maintain his fluid definition of a key data point. By keeping a vague and interpretive stance on such a powerful word like "hate" he can strategically shift his arguments from objective, to subjective, to moral, to logical, to ideological...etc. so that as the debate evolves he is less likely to be pinned down by his own projections.
That's true but the use of the word hate is to elicit conversation, it's "clickbait" essentially
@@skylerblumenthal7003 Yep. On one hand i can understand the reasoning behind using an obvious clickbait / gas-light tactic to garner attention, and then on the other hand I feel like the very nature of such a sensationalist perspective runs contrary to whatever principles Destiny claims to stand for when he is preaching from whatever flavor of moral or objective "high-ground" he plays at.
By asserting that a large and broad group of people are "evil" he is doing the very thing he is criticizing others for in this segment. I can appreciate his wit, intelligence and critical thinking but Is Destiny really trying to "help" deal with these issue's or is he just getting attention for his group?
For the most part the students in the video spoke against destiny's "gotcha" effectively countering his clickbait which is nice - but the engagements didn't uncover the bigotry Destiny is asserting with his "change my mind" statement - in fact it almost proved the opposite - that conservatives, or those who might speak on behalf of them are not "evil" as Destiny might think and further suggests he is pushing for attention and clicks. In this video he didn't find an "evil conservative" nor did his interactions present a learning moment for those who are lost.
I don't think he used the term as clickbait. It just doesn't seem like he knew it would be so differently interpreted/defined. He seemed genuinely surprised that one of the student's standard of what constitutes hate was so much higher than his. Probably something we understand in hindsight as viewers affected the quality of the debate.
Is there a better term or phrasing for the position that could've been used instead?
Love when Destiny puts out content like this: In person conversations with (not necessarily) terminally online people. Do this with red pill views and reap the views off “Change my mind” and “Andrew Tate.”
Yeah but it should be more filtered. None of the people are really informed and therefore the conversation is incredibly onesided and I sometimes want to jump through the screen to help these poor guys out. This would be interesting with more capable debaters that are more in tune with their opinions and views. Unfortunate
@@monkiw2 tbf these people do better than most people online in terms of voicing coherent opposition to Destiny's positions
POGGERS he finally released it
Finally the change my mind
@14:00 "instead of looking for solutions that'd make transpeoples lives the best it could be" - that's rich, when the discussion about different approaches to treating gender-dysphoria with psychotherapy are basically banned and labeled as attempted conversion-therapies. We even got so far that therapists aren't even allowed to question the gender-identity of the patient. I don't care what grown ups are doing out of this, but when it comes to kids this is really bad.
Good point. It's ridiculous that helping confused kids come to terms with their biological reality is being equated to forcing homosexuals to become straight.
Here is a total destruction of the argument about heteronormativity.
We NEED it. It's hard enough to justify any form of medication or surgery for a child diagnosed with gender dysphoria already. Removing gender stereotypes and roles destroys the anchor that informs you about the people who are outside the norm. How can a kid even begin to navigate this shit show without knowing what's the norm, what's common for the majority of people? How can anyone begin to understand if they are trans if they don't know about heterosexuality and homosexuality and how being trans is different from that? We are talking about children! They never even had time to navigate their own sexuality. How many kids who would end up gay will have to be butchered before people take this seriously? A kid can't even tell if they are gay or not before having enough interactions.
Love you D ! May not agree with everything you say but you are seriously one of the most Important and pivotal figures on the left ! Thanks for always going to the places others are too scared to go ! We need you and I appreciate you very much ! All love ! ❤
For real
Didn't ask destiny has low iq opinions
who's too scared to go to Penn state?
I love D too, I love D… I just love D so much
I also love his D ❤
I liked the intelligent conversation here. Thanks for posting the video
I think the point about many people "not believing" in transgenderism is a pertinent point. And because of this it makes the hatred claim invalid/wrong/inapplicable for those people, much in the same way that atheists do not hate god (despite some believers claims of such)
These are great content!
The editing... holy shit this was great.
finally man, great effort both the production and editing.
Really great video!
Nice compilation. Nice talks 👍🏼 . Liked and subscribed to you and Pakrat
Nice one
Great content. I kept wishing someone would take Destiny to the debate deep end but have to remember he's just politely engaging college students and getting a gauge of the social atmosphere on campus. But it's always great to hear young moderate perspectives.
You might be interested in his recent meta ethics debate with cosmic skeptic
I love this series.
Great camera quality 👍
That intro was amazing
The intro was pretty dope, I'm not gonna lie 🔥
Destiny, this was excellent!
Great content
The wait is finally over, perfect timing too since Destiny is in Europe. Thanks, August!
thanks august, finally :)
i appreciate how the framing and lighting got better with every person lol
There are things I disagree with Destiny on and little issues I have, but then I see him go out and put together stuff like this and my respect for the lad goes through the roof
his hair looks great here. blue and fluffly on the top, trimmed and brown on the sides, it's eye-catching as fuck
As a post-op trans adult living in Florida, the new legislation that is being enacted here has caused my primary care provider to stop prescribing hormones. I do not have endogenous testosterone and without exogenous hormones, I face a greatly increased risk of depresion and osteoporosis. Nurse practitioners and physician assistants are no longer allowed to prescribe hormone replacement therapy. This legislation is directly affecting adults now, and thats not even bringing up the new bathroom bill that would require you to use the bathroom associated with your "gamete production".
bruh i literally got conservative family members livin in all blue states complaining the worlds gonna end cuz their public schools let little boys wear panties, and I'm just like.....
"then move dude" 🤣 bruv, do you not understand....ya'll are BOTH DOIN THE SAME GOOFBALL SHIT HERE 🤣🤣
I legit don't understand WHY someone would want live amongst people they legitimately think "hates them".....unless you were a slave....which I'm pretty sure ain't been legal for a while now bruv 🤣
Conservatives want you dead.
Good
@@antonioiniguez1615 "Freedom" btw 🙃
oh no reality is hitting you in the face....
Destiny made a mistake with the first guy. They deviated into whether or not withholding a resources you own was the same as preventing independent access. The moment the guy said "that assumes I could have your food" (or whatever it was), Destiny should have pointed out that gender affirming care isn't a resource with a single owner. It might be a relevant avenue of discourse if we were considering a single doctor refusing care of a patient, but when we're talking about the state intervening in the individual's right to pursue care altogether that is a different matter.
Cameras are looking good - nice work
Really like the introduction, GJ Augustina she is such a good editor.
It's so good to see this type of content Destiny, thank you. My entire information bubble has been that of the right just because of freedom of speech for the past, well since 2015. With it, then tends to come these conservative talking points which apparently crumble under closer inspection. This is basically why I still follow you after all these years. Having first discovered you during your Starcraft days, I stuck around even though politically we went different paths. At this point you're the only truth seeking leftist I know of.
Must not know many leftists. Who do you listen to on the right?
The Destiny "you're the only true leftist" thing...I don't even know what to call it.
A 'pick me' strategy? A conservative, a 'you're nice to me, at least we can talk' thing when all the leftist interaction they are familiar with is twitter people.
Statistically, it just doesn't make any sense. At the bottom of it just sounds like the old 'you're one of the good ones' arguments.
@@connorbrady5689 well the extreme lefty is the type to joke about dead babies but cry about a joke about a minority😂
I think extreme lefties are rare in irl. They ar win an echo chamber on the internet, similar to the red pill guys. Most lefties in my country Australia are pretty normal. No one particularly takes the extremists seriously. Except for the youth. But they will learn in 10 years, we all did. We all used to believe silly ish lol
@@connorbrady5689 there is no real right in a sense. U have conservatives like crowder n Shapiro. But I wouldn't call them on the right.
As most normal people who claim to be right leaning, are still fairly moderate. I would say extreme right would be alex Jones, extreme conservative would be Nick fuentes.
I'm more a Mr metokur type of guy, I laugh at the left and the right. As they are both weird lol and usa is in a weird bubble of its own. America is fueled by race. No other country has this issue this large.
Would u call aba n preach on the right? As most lefties would call them alt right, but as they are Canadian like im Australian, we are more liberal than America, but less extreme with it. We also see ourselves as centre right, but left leaning on issues. We have welfare and all that talking points that would class us as a socialist country, but we wouldn't class ourselves as socialist. We just care about our society. And our homeless etc. We also have a fraction of the population. So we can actually manage our 25 million residents. California has more people than my entire country and half of them are homeless or mentally ill. And as u get lots of immigrants, u don't really fill the cup up with american patrotism, it water's down ever generation. As minority groups stay segregated, the love for usa stays segregated also.
Whats happening is, the Left hates its own country and half its population. Will usa ever be united? Probably not. Unless aliens invade. But then u would be united on racism of aliens lmaooo united by hate😂
@@connorbrady5689 Destiny is the only one that calls himself leftist that I listen to. Plenty call themselves classical liberal or moderate and have argued that their views haven't changed, but that the culture has shifted so far left that they can no longer follow. Happy to hear some other suggestions 👍
The most confusing thing in these conversations for me is everyone overestimating when kids are hitting puberty. Maybe it's changed since I was in school, but most people where i lived had a pretty firm gender identity/hit puberty by like 6th grade. Most of the girls I grew up with had hit puberty by 5th - 7th grade
"YoU SoUnD LiKe a GrOoMeR!!" - Conservatives, probably.
If I recall my 5th grade sex ed class correctly, female puberty tends to start at 10 and end at 15, while men's starts and ends at 12 and 16. Not too far off from your timescale, but that only refers to the physical changes. Psych development continues until like 25
@@theobell2002stfu lib
The issue with conservatives like myself is kids change man. Your permanent altering your body, why do we prohibit children from getting tattoos? Kids still need to be protected from themselves. They can cut their d@cks off when they are 18
I AM SO UPSET THAT I MISSED THIS. YOU WERE AT PENN STATE?!
Transgender is not real why those people even bother. It would be like having a debate about flat earth.
Medical institutions exists in many different countries to help trans people get affirming care, I think various types of doctors and psychologist are probably more informed on this stuff than, for example, you are.
Just because you're uneducated about the subject doesn't mean transgender people aren't real, holy shit these people are so dumb.
Earth is flat, you would know that if y’all didn’t stray away from God like these trans bots,you probably think you can travel to space 😂
@@wc8246 Sex is real, gender is not. So he is technically right
We just want to be left alone. I don't care about sports, let them sort it out fairly.
Thanks for this video.
get vaush to fight destiny again
dggL
Some trans people do care about the sports issue that’s the problem. I think it’s pretty fair the trans community comes to accept trans women have an advantage when it comes to women’s sports don’t you think?
Then you shouldn't have involved other peoples children.
@@sticks7857 It's the reverse, the law is intervening between parent's, the doctors, and the children. If you think otherwise, you're wrong. Factually, if that is what you care for.
A lot of people despise the entire "pride" movement....including people who used to be pretty accepting. It certainly isn't limited to conservatives. Hate began to develop once a hard line was crossed.....that hard line being the involvement of children.
They were all pretty interesting but I especially liked the fourth student's convo
TBH, Destiny responds poorly to the first guy's point which is simply "It isn't hate because they believe to be doing good by speaking against a harmful delusion."
We DON'T affirm bulimics, agreeing they are fat and need to throw up more. The problem with destiny's argument is we do not know for SURE affirming and HRT is IN the best interest of the person. Until then, I'm not ok with suggesting to kids we do irreversible changes to them until we know for sure. Maybe therapy to help them cope with the reality that they are in the body they were born with IS the solution. Listen to any de-transitioner talk about their experiences if you think its irreversible. HRT is up until a certain point, then its a point of no return.
Admittedly SOME conservatives may hate trans people, but it seems pretty disingenuous to say all do. Most people against HRT and surgery would say they truely believe these options to NOT be in the best interest of the person.
Again, a bulimic might THINK the best option is to throw up after every meal, but that doesn't mean it is. If it comes out that affirming IS in the best interest of the person, then sure i'll get behind it. Ngl it'd suck to have gender dysphoria and I feel bad for people that do. I'm sure trans people have a significant harder life and when 90% of kids "grow out of it" when not being coached, maybe we should step back and look at the chalk board again.
They do hate them. The fact you use bulimia as an analogy says everything.
@@GasDude1011 Thanks for not engaging with anything else I said. The fact you attacked the example of a disconnect between the brain and body, instead of engaging with a real conversation like "How do we know its the best option" shows you don't have much evidence on your side to argue with. I used Bulimia as an example but could've switched it out to any other condition to compare GD's disconnect from brain to body.
My guess is you probably read that, got triggered and didn't read the rest. Good job! Here's your +1 brownie point. Again, if you can show me it is 100% the best option, i'll be the first on board. Until then, stay mad.
Conservatives man 😂
@@GasDude1011 I see you deleted your other comment which was ""Its the most imperially backed method for improving quality of life, do you know that?" I fixed the typos for you.
@@GasDude1011 Your name says everything.
I'm really happy there was nobody interfering
First debate just about to listen to some arguments and we are already stuck at semantics.....VERY PRODUCTIVE!! holy shit show...
I love that Destiny is doing this with the neon blue hair.
No body cared until all of Corporate America and movies and social media decided to go all in on it. Its Pride day every day in America.
So people only cared when trans people started coming out and celebrating it?
Good argument, definitely comes across as non-schizo
@@DudeNamedDuncancringe harder
Why would that even make a difference, do you realize how crazy it sounds to imply that you would only support LGBT people if only they started being more ashamed of themselves and enjoyed less public exposure & support?
Nah, people were still bigoted. They just had no reason to be so loud about it before. So in a sense you are right, but not really.
I personally agree that the media presence of trans people is far too high. You'd think you'd meet a different one every single day. To be fair content I consume probably is heavily skewed in that direction.
idk who set the camera but that depth of field or if it was edited but that depth of field is so so good
This is really enjoyable to listen to. Its nice and sadly feels relatively rare these days for people to have a civil and thoughtful discussion/debate.
Last guy felt very genuine
WAIT IS THIS THE RECOVERED FOOTAGE?
Not letting a human go through puberty is the most unhealthy thing you can do to a human being. I can’t think of anything worse to do to a child other than chopping off healthy body parts.
Puberty blockers don’t permanently block puberty. Plus, children have been receiving them for decades for things like early puberty and other health issues that aren’t related to gender. Most kids who go on puberty blockers do so before the age of puberty starts and will decide whether to go on hormones or resume the puberty they would have gone through by mid-late teenage years, effectively just making them late bloomers. I know many males who started puberty at 16-18 and are perfectly healthy and well adjusted as adults.
@@Bootsy47 I love to spread ignorance and misinformation too!
If there was a super like button i woulda given it to u for this comment.
@@Bootsy47that’s simply untrue. Blockers, especially in young men, can lead to bone density issues. Additionally, we have the research to know that many who go on blockers WILL indeed go onto HRT which absolutely DOES have permanent implications like STERILITY.
Why do you feel you can speak on this issue when you have clearly not looked into it exhaustively? There’s absolutely NO reason to support childhood transition. People like YOU are the issue.
Trans people have ALWAYS existed whether they were called trans or some other name. We never needed to involve children in this but imbeciles who want to look so progressive think we need to involve children in this.
The arguments for why children should be allowed to transition, are so hollow and lacking of any real thought.
It is often argued that children must be allowed to transition bc it will make them look better in the future. Imagine if we spent this much energy on obesity in childhood. Separated kids from their parents for feeding them too much. Something that one could more easily argue is detrimental to their health and will help them look better in the future; especially compared to separating kids from their parents for not affirming their gender & not giving them blockers & HRT which most certainly will sterilize them and most certainly will not make their genitals look better in the future, it’ll just keep them looking like babies in the future.
Is there any reason you want to keep humans looking prepubescent for longer, you creep?
People, especially on Destiny’s side, might think it’s too far to bring that up. It’s not. It’s fucking weird to support puberty blockers at this time and it should be questioned - why do you want to see young looking faces around you? Weirdo. Creep. Sterilizer of children. We should throw tomatoes at you, too, idiot. You shouldn’t be allowed to have the opinion that we should medicalize kids into sterilization.
@@chris135xHe literally did the exact opposite.
Ah the good ol days of college where I would rather argue about what constitutes hate instead of just accepting the fact the outlawing insulin is a direct harm.
You can’t reason somebody out of something they haven’t reasoned themselves into.
You definitely can bro like some people just have opinions on things they haven't really thought about much and you just show a small flaw in their thinking like- oh haven't thought of that. Imagine if this were true, when the hell would anyone ever convert from a religion they were born into a family of and believed strongly in their youth?
holy shit my grammar I apologize for writing this.
I reasoned a dude who fully believed in the moon landing hoax who was alive *for the moon landing*. You can't reason someone out of unreason, but you can reason them into reason, even though they might even get THERE unreasonably lmao
...you're talking about trans people right?
why
this intro edit is sick
Bro, these conversations are able to be nuanced, just like the issue of trans issues are themselves. Unfortunately, politics isn’t nuanced anymore, and people seeking power are out for power, no matter the sacrifices needed.
I wish we could hear more conversations about cost of living, the housing crisis, living wages, healthcare, environmental issues etc. Im all for trans rights and these discussions need to happen but the previous things I mentioned affect ALL of us and not like 0.01% of the population, however it feels like 90% of conversations are about trans issues
Oh okay, so you're a class reductionist communist who hates the bourgeoisie? Or are you a conservative who hates the elite? Socialists and fascists are one and the same.
These discussions ended years ago is the real kicker. We know the best practices for like every trans issue. It's the minority scapegoat of the month so there's tons of money and mainstream media attention in pretending there's a controversy.
@@lvli044there *is* a controversy. Red states are actively passing laws to ban transpeople from existing
Conservatives generally don't have good policy prescriptions on these issues because to most conservative politicians and interlocutors, these issues are unimportant or non existent. This is why comparatively few conservatives spend time online talking about these issues, because it simply doesn't further any objectives or positions.
This is a healthcare issue.
Damn Destiny looking fine with the hair today
Okay production!
Destiny needs to have a conversation with Matt Walsh
Destiny would likely (extremely high chance) beat against Matt Walsh but Matt Walsh would win the overall argument. The Trans issue is stupidly fucking iffy and so much SUS energy in it.
@Sunny Sangha I think they both would agree with a lot, I've heard destiny say there is a lot in the trans issues that are ridiculous. It's hard to say who would win overall as I'm very biased towards the left side in treating trans people with dignity and respect, so I would already be in agreement and I can't imagine agreeing with Matt that we should be treating trans people with no respect.
"To conflate the most extreme opinions with all other opinions because the most vocal voices are extreme means to dismiss the silent majority."
Blame conservatives all you want but they aren't the ones silencing debate. Just like the last student who said he couldn't even have this debate in class without being reprimanded.
You never debate a general point. This is a golden rule of a debate. Make your opponent cite specifics.
A bathroom law was just passed in my state of Kansas.
I literally don't know how I would attempt to go to a mens bathroom. I've had facial surgery and have been on hrt for over 5 years. I've had people not believe it was me when i show my ID. Or doctor's or pharmacist ask if i was pregnant. I'm pretty much stealth.
I would have to explain to men that are strangers that I'm trans just to not be told i was in the wrong bathroom. Or....idk what i would do if i tried to follow the new law.
I'm just gonna ignore it i guess....no one will question me and it's the path of least resistance. So i guess I'm an outlaw now. Because a young woman used the women's bathroom. Really cool conservatives. Great stuff you're doing.
I’m not trying to be callous here, but damn how often are Americans using public bathrooms that this is such a big issue for both sides?
Who made this an issue?!
@@secondeye1574 seriously lmao
I have to say I love how they literally have genital police just to make sure that trans people can't be comfortable in bathrooms. I used to be conservative and shit like this just pisses me off.
You're a man. Not a woman
Your opening clip is bad faith, it cuts clips right before clarifying and also patriot front is FBI not republicans lol do police always let people wear their masks or keep their backpacks on while being “arrested” 🤣
that first conversation was brutal
More change my minds, I love these.
Many of us dont hate trans people but love them, and why we think gender dysphoria should be treated as an illness. Having a standard or moral position is not hatred.
Gender dysphoria is treated the way any other illness is: with therapy, medication and surgery.
@@Bootsy47 the current medical procedure for gender dysphoria affirms the illness rather than treat it. Doctors don't affirm a schizophrenic that thinks the radio is telling him reptilians run the world. Doctors don't affirm a manic depressive who thinks their loving family member is trying to poisons them. Treatment properly administered attempts to align the patient back with reality
Why is Destiny acting like there are any definitive studies proving that “gender affirming care” works, when hes stated many times before that there are in fact none?
He's arguing in bad faith because he hates conservatives
IIRC its true. He shouldve put a study on screen to back up his claim though. There are studies to show it works, there are studies that show it doesnt.
@@luxeayt6694
what's the overall consensus?
@@garywebb2432 that when applied to pts. with actual disphoria there is an increase in QoL and a reduction in suicidality
@@luxeayt6694 what’s wild to me is that Destiny can’t define what a woman is, yet he’s mad at conservatives for not agreeing wholesale with this new ideology.
At least get your ducks in a row before foisting these novel ideas on wider society.