Trans Musician Forces Destiny To Defend His Trans Takes
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- DEBATE: Rose Mulet debates Destiny and forces him to clarify his trans takes...
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4 days of manifesto writing eh
Thanks for having me on to debate you!
@@Aznmok thanks, I appreciate it!
Depression.
i just finished rogue legacy too!!!
"Trans women aren't allowed to leave Ukraine." Rose rages
"Men aren't allowed to leave Ukraine." Rose sees no problem with that
a c t i v i s t s
It was a truly disgusting take from her and she needs to be called out for it. Basically saying Trans women should have more rights then others that are staying to fight for their country.
@@psibug565 for real. lives are lives.
@@psibug565 You hear it so often. People who claim to be after equality, but actually want special treatment. They want it illegal to misgender a trans person, but don't give a fuck about misgendering cis people. They want it a hate crime to kill a trans person for any reason, independent of their transness, but it's never a hate crime against cis people. They want it so you can never disagree with a trans person, but it's actively encouraged to shout down cis people. Also goes for all other marginalized groups really.
Obviously this isn't EVERY activist, but it's a shocking number. People will jump to call a trans death a hate crime even if there is direct evidence indicating it had absolutely nothing to do with how they identify or present themselves.
I couldn't believe that she said that. Men being forced to go and fight on the front line was completely overlooked by her. Her ignorance could easily induce vomiting to listeners!
Every time this person gets backed into a corner they say "I would concede that argument, but that just vindicates the terfs so I can't", which is the equivalent of saying "I know I'm wrong, but I don't want to admit it, because that would be admitting the people I disagreed with in the past were right". This is an example of a person becoming entrenched in a position purely out of not wanting to take an L. Just silly closed mindedness with a big heap of ego
It's the same thinking you hear from pro life/choice people and pro 2A/gun control people. It's just exhausting at this point.
It's called ideology
@@Calrizaen Except usually people with an ideology come up with arguments to defend their ideology instead of just saying "I don't want to agree with the other guy so no"
@@redplanet2720 You’re partially correct, but in the Mind of The Ideologue, responding to Criticism by simply saying “That is a TERF Talking Point™️!!”, IS seen as a Valid Argument, from their Perspective.
That’s actually One of the Main Problems with the Concept of “Rigid Ideology”, in general.
That’s why, when confronted with even Mild Pushback on their Beliefs, The Ideologue will often respond to a Demonstration of their Wrongness by saying that they “don’t want to give ANY Oxygen to (their Perceived Opponents)”, or that they “don’t want to Normalize/Platform (their Perceived Opponents) and/or their Positions/Arguments/Beliefs etc.”.
And that is because they have already swallowed, and internalized, The Narrative that informs their Ideological Worldview, which usually, “CONVENIENTLY”, provides them with an Adversary, who serves as a Sort of Ideological Insulation that prevents them from reflecting on the Veracity of their Beliefs, and possibly even questioning their Continued Allegiance to their Ideology. And instead, it allows them to reflexively dismiss ANY Criticism that comes their Way, even if it includes a Direct Refutation of their Espoused Beliefs, simply because they have been given the Tools by which that Criticism can be attributed to The Adversary, or insinuated to be inadvertently HELPING The Adversary, instantly inspiring them to compulsively Double Down on their Wrongness, out of a Sense of Righteous Defiance in the Face of Perceived “Oppression”, which, in Turn, fills them with the Pleasurable Feeling of Emotional Gratification that allows them to IGNORE the Fact that their Arguments were JUST systematically dismantled, RIGHT in Front of their Eyes, dig their Heels in, and continue to adhere to their Ideology, as if Nothing had EVER even happened, rather than cede even an INCH of Ground to their Perceived Opponents, under ANY Circumstances.
This is, essentially, the Same Benefit that is bestowed by invoking the Name of “The Patriarchy”, or “The White Man” (or alternatively, “The Jews”, on the Other End of the Spectrum), or WHICHEVER Group has been designated, by the Collective Consensus, to play the Role of the Archetypal Abstraction of “The Adversary” that they IMAGINE their Opposition to be, by Default, even if their Critic would vehemently REJECT that Label and explicitly self-identify as Something ELSE.
Now, this is NOT to say that those Groups are COMPLETELY Nonexistent, NOR am I saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to be accurately diagnosing the Affiliation of their Critics. But isn’t it awfully convenient that WHENEVER a Certain Ideological Faction is subjected to Scrutiny, it ALWAYS just HAPPENS to be attributable to their Respective Adversary, even if they have to perform Elaborate Feats of Rhetorical Gymnastics, in order to maneuver their Critics into the Appearance of Passive Tacit Alignment with their Perceived Opponents? 🤔
@@pariah_carey If I took a shot for every time you put a word in all caps I'd be in hospital
damn destiny...you really took it easy on her.
*him*
Trans-privilege
Oh him your actually phobic otherwise
he didnt took easy its just this person need help but would not be (a conversation) if he just say u need help XD and its not to him and or his chanel to deaL with things that suposed to be dealt with by a doctor u know
@@totalwater9431**her**
Lol the cross-dressing logic killed me. How do you think women feel when they see trans-women? Everything she said she felt about cross-dressers could reasonably be felt by women about trans-women.
Perhaps Rose is a narcissist? She doesn't seem to pickup or care about how other people feel or perceive things. Everything seems to be about the way it makes Rose feel.
Yeah that's wild
The world according to Rose
Yeah especially when she said “you’re allowed to express yourself…” at the end of the video. I mean that’s what cross dressing does is negate the norm of fashion ect and express yourself. When she said it was akin to blackface was a definitely cringe.
and it is lmao
Are you saying cis women are more deserving of those spots?
Destiny: *immediately answers* yes
The alternative is admitting that MEN are more deserving of those spots, or equally deserving as women.
I mean, of course you're gonna say yes, women deserve the awards of women's sports more than men competing there.
I mean he's not wrong
😂😂
It's true considering that women's sports were created for women. There's no such thing as "men's" sports, there's just sports and women's sports. Nothing stopping a woman from competing with men.
@@Mant111 damn UA-cam comments are crazy
"I'm not going to deny reality but..." *Immediately denies reality*
“I don’t know anything about this Lia Thompson person or whatever she’s called, but I’m pretty sure there’s not much difference between…”
I don’t know, I’m pretty sure. Pick one.
@@seal869 Brutal. Love it. People like this have an agenda and have poor to no reasoning outside of their perception/feelings/emotions. I'm well past caring about people's feelings. Manipulative people have disabused me of that notion.
@@hebrewhammer7933 she seems like a pretty reasonable and articulate person to me. Much more so than a random hater in the yt comments giving off transphobic vibes. I don't think she was trying to push and agenda or be manipulative, she just wants to be who she is.
@@insertedgynamehere6487 yeah youre insane too. takes a carzy to know a crazy
@@insertedgynamehere6487 Lmaoo tbh transphobic is losing its meaning if it hasnt already due to lunatics like yourself taking everything probably even reality as transphobic
“No uterus no opinion” is a term that immediately makes me think about women taking a stand against men who want to regulate abortion. To take that and turn it into “it’s trans exclusionary” is cringe
The phrase itself is cringe. The right to an opinion about a subject is not, and should not be contingent on whether one is directly affected. Besides, even if that were true, men are directly involved in pregnancy, as human life requires male sperm, and all men were once a zygote/embryo/fetus, so have just as much right to have an opinion.
1000% agree!
As someone who isn’t trans and doesn’t really keep up with trans stuff in general I think one of the hardest parts of having that conversation with other people is that anyone can be trans and anyone can be an authority on it based off their own experiences. There is no good way to differentiate people who have legitimate issues with body dismorphia or like they said “male brained/female brained” vs people who just want attention or think it’s trendy to be trans or whatever. It’s like if anyone can claim status as a rocket scientist with no way to verify anyone then we could never have honest conversations about rocket science.
I'd say I'm a centrist conservative, and I try listening to conversations like this to get some sense of this phenomenon that seems to have come from nowhere. But, at the end of this, I'm even more annoyed and confused, because this all just sounds like jumbled nonsense to me that we're altering our entire society in order to accommodate. The way this person feels about "neopronouns" is how I feel about this entire topic. And the fact that none of these people can seemingly agree on when this stuff has gone to far, just removes the tiny understanding of it that I actually have.
Yeah I can be a legit dude with muscles and beard and a hard on. But still identify as a women if a wish and no one can say anything cuz if they do they are a biggot 😂
@@JosephRussellStapleton Its a new age religion combined with social media and possible health issues (plastics, etc.). Gender and Sex are the same and have been for the vast majority of the population all throughout human history. Progressives need to chase every smaller "marginalized" groups have latched onto Trans as Gay and Lesbian has been too normalized. They are now elevating what it is the mind over a healthy body. An illness of the mind now necessitates DAMAGING a healthy working body.
Most trans trenders are people who call themselves non binary but change nothing about how they present. There are real non binary people but a lot of people calling themselves that are just jumping on the bandwagon.
Man and woman don't exist. It's a social construct.
Trans women not being allowed to leave Ukraine is discrimination. Men not being allowed to leave Ukraine is fine.
Got it.
Im the girl he debated in this video, I’m anti-draft, and anti-war. And men should be able to leave too OF COURSE. But it being women only and excluding trans women is transphobic af.
@@rosemulet How would border guards identify trans women?
"Your passport says "sex: M", but you look/identify as a woman, you can pass."
@@rosemulet
I appreciate that you are anti-draft. I'm not sure what the anti-war statement means but that is alright.
However complaining about the Ukrainian forced conscription being "transphobic af" is the equivalent to complaining about transmen not being allowed to vote in Saudi Arabia. Like sure it's transphobic, but in what world should you decide to highlight that at this time.
@@rosemulet Transphobia bad. Misandry good and encouraged.
@@caesium404 Nice bait
the obsession with not “ceding” any ground to terfs is probably the biggest issue that trans activists have rn. If you go to far down that rabbit hole you’ll start to look crazy.
Terfs are correct 😅
They already look crazy
@@wa-bu3ke yikes...
@@Metralo would you rather be woke 😅
@@Metralo This is exactly what the problem is. Even admitting that terfs can hold a single, semi accurate position will cause people think that you agree with them in entirety. Destiny's position on trans athletes has some similarities to the terfs' position, so now all of twitter thinks hes a transphobe.
It's the whole political team sports issue, where if you have any nuance in your ideas that line up with the other side, you are an enemy not an ally.
I think Rose is a perfect example of how these issues completely consume your thoughts and can drive you to some extreme and niche positions. Almost like a super fanboy.
It is ALL she thinks of, every day all day. She doesnt focus on what makes her, her. Her skills, hobbies, passions. It all surrounds around whether she is a female or not.
@@Ebiru2387 exactly like who cares, gender has very little to do with identity.
@@Goganzuela I suppose unless you make it your identity. Identity can be just about anything you identify with.
@@Ebiru2387and she focuses on how others should live and act like drag shows wtf
Literally. Im a feminine guy, idc what my gender is its not a big part or my personality i would act the same however I identify
Listening to this dude is fucking refreshing. He is proof that you can be left and still be an individual. Damn!
Which dude?
Agree! Just found his page today and I don’t fit with conservatives but also disagree with this topic with libs. Refreshing to hear someone with my views.
"Trans women are women" really starting to sound like "Jesus died for our sins", with how it is just repeated like a mantra in response to everything
TRANS RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS
Caitlin transitioned for your checkmark.
Yep. I've noticed that radical leftists beliefs are basically religious.
You're commanded to believe and profess something absurd, and refusal to do so is tantamount to heresy.
@@albertosillywhips7281 even in this convo, when Destiny affirmed "Yes" to gendered spaces, you can taste the "he just spoke heresy" from this person.
Yeah... no.
“Transwomen are women” is a literal fact.
No, they are not biological women.
But they’re still women.
“Jesus died for our sins” is not a fact.
Now please, shut the fuck up. Your comment screams edgy debatelord meets Atheist redditor.
Classic case of "I believe the opposite of what my enemy believes no matter what." Syndrome
As someone who has worked in child psychology I can tell you, we are not allowed to help children challenge or explore whether or not they are truly trans or have other issues leading them to falsely believe they are trans. We are only allowed to affirm. Otherwise, there's a risk of it being labelled "conversion therapy."
Trans ideology is the real conversion therapy. Literally erasing homosexuality. Plenty of conservative parents would rather have a straight daughter than a gay son and "affirm" the slightest feminine trait in their son as "he is a girl"
Scary times. I feel as if this societal trend is due to such a big uptick in child hood trauma and the introduction of social media. We have to value diff things in this world. Family and purpose are big ones. Most of these kids struggling seem to have had some prior trauma and lack of love.
What do you mean by affirm tho?
Isn't that like "I think I might be a boy"
To affirm that would be too agree with it
And if you "affirm" something, you will believe it. If someone is trash at making jokes but everyone says they are "good at it", they will continue to do so without second thought especially if its someone who is considered a role model/superior such as adults telling children things.
This is indeed "conversion therapy", but with mental gymnastics to protect this behavior. This is the reality.
If a child struggling with a eating disorder asks to skip a meal, are you just supposed to accept it? In either case you're either helping them hurt themselves, or improving their health against their wishes, I would have expected the final decision always lies with the parent, so yes affirming them is just as bad
It’s crazy how every thought she has is about not conceding in anyway to the evil Terfs. How can you see oh yea they are right but we can’t concede. Like how do you expect to convince people if you purposely don’t operate in reality to never “concede” to those who disagree with you.
They're ideologically possessed and will NEVER admit they're wrong. These "debates" feel more like fishing for affirmation.
Thats how this whole system they want works, never concede even if your point isn't based in reality or truth. Force your world view on others, subjugate all who oppose and force brainwashing on them. Kinda sounds like commies in new clothes, funny that.
At 55:20, did she really said it's ok to wear dresses if you identify as a woman, but if you identify as a man it's not? The trans ideology has gone full circle with her and she now has the same positions as traditionalists. I thought she was just a bit misguided until then, but now she really needs to think deeply about what she believes in and where it leads her.
Trans people against crossdressers, wtf is she on about.
@@johnlemon874 Its the hardcore defensiveness of trad roles that make TERFS a thing.
It's because a lot of those crossdressing men go super hard into becoming the gimmick. Like they put on makeup better, know how to do their hair in female styles. know how to wear the dresses and can struct around in heels better than them. Then at the end of the night take all that off put on some business casual and go home. Some transwomen like her think they ARE women more than women and crossdressing men. They want the birthright, when really they sound silly and ironic. Since transpeople the ones that said CLOTHING ISN'T GENDERED. Yet I think the mook was too young to even realize that discourse was like. You're 22 talking like you rule the world nah get back at us at 30 and ya realize shit ain't that clearcut.
She's a sexist.
It's because the level at which you are considered trans has been lowered to a point where it basically includes crossdressing, but crossdressers explicitly don't identify as women, which creates this weird conflict that hurts the narrative
I always thought trans people had a very shallow view of gender roles. Trans women get a lot of procedures that actresses take - nose jobs, breast implants, lip fillers etc. What we consider shallow and vain in Kim Kardashian should be lauded in trans women.
my daughter asked if she was a boy because she seen stuff on tik tok which suggested you are trans if you don't like classically girly stuff (basically). I am not saying there is a grand agenda but there are people out there confusing these issues
My favorite is parents in, let's say....California for instance....that stand on their 3 year old is trans. OK, so if gender is a label from society, then exactly how did your 3 year old, who hasn't remotely been "In society" know they were trans? And exactly why is a 3 year old dictating reality for you? I'm going on a limb and saying the parents decided. Just whacko.
She seen? I hope you mean 'saw'
This is why I don't buy that there is no social contagion aspect to this.
Soci media for kids is anti.. innocence and they are developing other ideas originally never thought of
I'll say it. There's an agenda
To be honest I used to be okay with the trans movement but recently I have taken a step back. Being in college you come across your fair amount of trans people. But an unfortunate trend I have noticed is that these people have just been generally intolerable to be around. I will give a couple of experiences that I experienced that caused my view.
We were talking about OpenAI in my comp sci class and I said, "Its Elon Musk baby(In reference to how he gave them some money)" to a trans man. He literally screamed at me during class an said, "You will not call me baby". The next day I discussed to him that, "If it were any of my guy friends I would've said the same thing, and that I just use baby at the end as like an exclamation, and not a proclamation of his gender" He actually apologized and I thought we had reached a consensus. However he had several more freakouts on other people and even the professor who addressed the class as "Guys"(Which confused me even more because I thought he identified as a guy so I didn't understand the issue at all) . The thing is that he dressed in dresses and clothes commonly associated with a woman, had breasts, long hair for a man, stockings, etc. How can you expect someone to correctly identify your gender and then freak out on them when they don't correctly identify it. It was crazy, it felt like they were baiting people into misgendering them to cause a scene and then garner sympathy from the class. I further felt this way because he would turn critiques of their ideas during group discussion on class (comp sci + calc type class) into attacks on his identity.
The second was when I walked into a general room to see an asian man fleeing/getting assaulted by a trans female for misgendering her. I mention hes asian only because he had a very thick accent and probably didn't even know what a transgender person was as there are many chinese who come to colleges in the US because it means alot more. This person was staff and IT for the comp sci department and I had seen him consistently in the common / support rooms at the college and I had seen her just be assholes to people shes supposed to be helping so I wasn't a fan of her to begin with. Somehow she spun it and wasn't fired.
The manipulative behavior of playing the victim felt universal for the trans people I knew. Ive heard comments like ,"Oh you got an A on the presentation and I didnt because the professor is transphobic". No I watched your presentation and you put C tier effort in so you got a C.
Because of this I feel like I have to walk on eggshells around every trans person I have met because I want to protect my reputation. Getting called transphobic probably doesn't have as many implications now that I am in the workforce, but in college in progressive / liberal friend groups the social pressures can be intense, so for me it wasnt worth the risk correcting their nonsense because there isnt much upside and a whole lot of downside.
This has caused me to take a step back and think is there someone more going on within the trans-community.
When someone makes this whole “there aren’t even that many top trans athletes”-argument, it always immediately reveals that they don’t care about or understand sports.
Nobody that cares about a sport would ever say “well, it’s only that one person at the very top that has an unfair advantage, it barely affects the sport otherwise”
People care about who’s winning the events and how they did it. It’s literally the point of sports
There's reasons "performance-enchancers" are banned in team and individual sports. It not only gives unfair advantages but also de-legitimizes the sport as a whole to onlookers which can lead to loss of revenue for everybody involved. I feel like people who don't care about sports skip over the that 2nd part.
Thank you.
Soo many gloss over this, which shows exactly what you said:
"These people are proving they do no understand sport"
Allowing trans women in women's sport is comparable to allowing performance enhancing drugs users to compete. The advantage they have over others is clear, and thus not permitted.
The difference is no one says trans women can't compete. Just they shouldn't compete with women.
@@Unsensitive yep. let them compete against men, or hell make an entire new category, idk, think of something, yaknow? but letting them compete against women, is bad for everyone in the sport, not just the women they take the spots from.
Makes a lot of sense
What about usain bolt or Michael pelphs. Both of them have genetics that allow them to be at the top of their sports
The situation with trans women in Ukraine really pisses me off. Not because trans women are being forced to stay, but because it’s somehow oppressive that trans women are being conscripted but just an accepted fact that men are. You shouldn’t argue that trans women should be allowed to leave Ukraine, you should argue that EVERYONE should be allowed to leave Ukraine
So does she want Trans Men to have to fight? Interesting she didn't mention that.
Yea, the question they should be asking themselves is "why are just men being forced to stay, but not women and children?"
What characteristics do women and children have that causes people to not want them to stay and fight? And do trans women carry those same characteristics?
Everyone should be drafted, actually.
@@FireZeldaSprkleParty Obviously the ideal would be no draft and no war but in the event that another country, who does have a draft, starts to attack, what do you think the government should do if they don't have enough willing fighters? If you think there should be a draft in this instance, does the draft affect all adults? but then who takes custody of the children? The State? No parent would vote to pass legislation amending the draft to be like that. So, all adults without children and 1/2 of adults with children under 18? Which half? If couples just decide amongst themselves, wont it probably just end up being basically an entirely male draft again but with more paperwork? How would they enforce this? And what happens if the two parents don't agree about who should go? How would the state enforce this during a literal war? I feel like there is just no solution: there is no ethical AND practical/pragmatic draft but the majority of men and women (comprised of people that would and wouldn't willingly fight themselves) think that at some point its necessary for the state/government to enact one.
I feel like the most "equal" solution that still acknowledges that men are physically stronger (not better/superior as women have survival advantages) and women are evolutionarily more attached to their children (and their bodies feed infants), would prob be drafting all adults of fighting age besides women with children under 18, and then adult women would get first priority in being placed in non-combat positions. but idk i feel like if you're at the point where you need a draft then what you need is people in combat positions and the enemy would be advantaged if they had only men. Not only do men disproportionately instigate violence/start/vote in support of wars, but in war zones women soldiers & citizens are at a disturbingly high risk of being raped by both the enemy soldiers+citizens as well as their own soldiers.
@@FireZeldaSprkleParty Only children should be drafted, after all they do not already have valuable skillsets. Make use of the useless. :)
Sex by deception is rape. Don't do that, please. Discuss things before getting to the sex part. If you love someone, that's something that should come up well beforehand.
She keeps saying 'this isn't a hill I'm willing to die on' but it seems to be a hill that she's willing to die on.
The fact that they talk about transitioning “pre-puberty” like it’s completely normal is pretty crazy. There’s a reason we don’t let 11 year olds make life altering, permanent decisions like smoking, drinking, sex or tattoos.
Yeah when it comes to sports male have advantages even before puberty BUT the idea of making exceptions for people that transition young is to normalize the idea but such young child don't even really know what it means to be male or female
And turn around to say "that's not happening" because it's illega. This is what conservatives have been saying
The female brain hypothesis is nonsense. Gay men also show a "feminized" brain in MRI scans yet they do not identify as female. It explains sexual orientation not identity. Google "gay men have female brains MRI scans". You should find some interesting results.
It's fucking disgusting
we do tho my frends have used pubertyx blockers pefore too something we do regularly btw
It annoyed me hearing her talk about trans women being trapped in Ukraine and how horrible that is but also completely ignoring the cis men that are also trapped there.
Yeah. Being pro-trans does not prohibit one from being casually sexist like that. She ought to educate herself.
The problem is that these "Activists" don't care about anyone but their own little Group and try to talk for all Trans People that didn't even elect them and have different values than those Activists. Not to forget that they slap pronounce on Biological Genders, which is also sexist. I didn't understand her Ukraine talking point because why should Transpeople be able to leave when in her Eyes all the Genders are the same, so why shouldn't all people be allowed to leave the country?
But that wasnt really her point i think. What she was talking about was trans women not being allowed to leave, while cis women are. Her stance on being allowed to leave regardless of gender has nothing to do with what she said.
@@nobloblobloblo8515so im a man in ukraine and the draft happens and i decide to identify as a woman should i be allowed to leave?
she doesn’t care
This girl just has nightmares of this mythical terf being.
Everything she said circled around to "a terf might think this so its evil and wrong even if there's evidence."
I feel like she doesn't want to give up any ground, because it feels like the people who hate you are right, but agreeing with common sense from people who aren't coming from a place of hate is not the same thing.
I just found the very beginning to be interesting. I remember a couple of years ago leftists "There are no transitioning happening to kids." This person "I started transitioning at the age of 14".
Yea surgeries arent allowed. Feminization isnt allowed. Puberty blockage is allowed with parental consent if at all. dont generalize the use of the word transition,
@@nikhtzatzi Boston Children's Hospital performs double mastectomies on girls as young as 15. We aren't buying the "its not happening" anymore. We know it's happening & it's disgusting.
@@nikhtzatzi thank you that was just a fucking lie the way he worded that. Theirs also socially transition which would just be clothes and pronouns and such.
@@nikhtzatziwell the person in the video used it.
What? Depending on the state and the organisation the kids are under 10 years old
The feelings trans women have for drag queens are the same feelings cis women have for trans women.
I'd say it's more akin to the feelings TERFs have about trans women.
Generalization
Exactly.. and cis women are right about that.
Why don't they ever see this??
Don't call us cis, we are just women
"I just want to be seen as normal" I mean your situation is anything but normal, but yea, i get it. Blending in is far better than standing out in situations like this.
tbh if she transitioned that early in her life most of the people wont see that she is trans anyway as long as she isnt telling it everyone
her cross-dressing take its quite wild lmao, people can literally take it and throw it right back at her...
Half of this video feels like a therapy session. We start out with specific things Destiny said, then it devolves into, “Destiny why do women not like me?”
Don't attack my queen!
It definitely feels like the discussion was over around 35 minutes in, but the guest just wanted to stick around for as long as possible and Destiny didn't have a polite way to kick them off.
Rose is a master level gatekeeper shitting on other gatekeepers. Love to see it.
The argument really is about how much someone can make things about themselves. Trans inclusivity is important but respecting the cis spaces is also important.
I find it crazy that destinty did not push back at all on that ukraine trans take.
Why are people suddenly pretending that under 18's just do sport for exercise or fun? When professionals talk about their start in their respective sports they invariably say their aptitude was noted in their childhood and that they were competetive as children. There are under 18 comps in pretty much all sports arent there? Fairness _matters_ irrespective of age.
The suggestion that girls should just be in it for the fun reeks of misogyny, if unintended.
I started in my best sport around age 8.
I was highly competitive from ages 10 or 11+, regularly practicing with people 15-18 years old.
My competitivness only ended due to an injury and 2 surgeries. At the time I was competing at the Olympic trial level. Seems competitive to me.
This is why I hate Destiny’s take that all sports are fine with trash inclusion pre college. Like you literally get scholarships in high school to go on to play in college. Such an absurd and irrational take from him.
@@josie6564if you think this, you've never met a D1 athlete, or a cheerleader at any level. Girls are extremely competitive, just about different things than guys are
@@josie6564 No we don't!! We want those scholarships too
@Josie I think you just don’t care about sports. Plenty of girls do care and they enter these sports, especially in HS, because they care and want to include it as a career opportunity. Otherwise they would just stick to playing kickball at their neighborhood where no one cares with them.
I understand where she's coming from but it feel like her positions are anti-terf before they're her opinions.
the whole, "they'll be nicer to the person who passes, than the trans who doesn't". like, bruh, people are nicer to the attractive, than the unattractive, by default. and not passing, just isn't attractive (to the vast majority). femininity, and masculinity, rarely ever combine into one whole well. they can, but especially when it's forced, it's rare.
my comment wasn't really relevant, but yes she is definitely anti-terf, more than she is for "her" positions. you can tell, mainly because she brings them up 3 or 4 times, everytime she says her speal, and even mentions, "i don't want to say this, because the terfs win". it's not about winning. you've already lost, if you think it is, lol.
I'm so sick of hearing about terfs. If they're really your biggest problem, then your problems are very small. And given the amount of anti-trans legislation, maybe you should quit worrying about the tiny group made up of trans exclusive radical feminists, for a while.
@@Choryrth your comment was very relevant dude!
Nah, if you're trans you need to be upfront about that within the first few dates if you want to continue seeing that person and BEFORE things get physical, even a kiss.
There are plenty of people out there that aren't trans and believe in trans rights, but still don't want to be with a trans person because of their own preferences.
If you lie to them and they find out waaaaayyyy later, you deserve what comes to you because it was your choice to lie and not disclose.
Imagine dating a woman, wanting to be serious and you want to have kids. Then you find out they're trans and can't have kids. That's one if many examples on why you have to disclose at the beginning of the relationship, regardless of the outcome you want.
Well said, I mean. Any date male or female you go, there is a slight chance they're literally fuxking crazy right.
"you deserve what comes to you" surely you don't mean murder? I think trans individuals should be outright honest right away but people can get violent and no one deserves to have their life snuffed. Yeah, it's extremely messed up to be dishonest but I just think hurting someone badly is a horrific way to handle it.
@@pigtailsandteddybears typical jumping to the most extreme conclusions. Either way, play stupid games win stupid prizes. Lie to someone or put on a front, you have to expect to suffer the consequences of your choices. And yes, that can mean bodily harm if you lie and mislead someone in that way described above.
Not saying that's the right reaction, but it is a realistic reaction that can happen when you fuck around with other people's lives.
If you're trans and know that can be the outcome of your lies, then yes, you earned it.
@@berserkerrxii5776 exactly
@@seabizkitsngravy I didn't mean my response as an insult towards you. I came to the conclusion that you meant serious bodily harm and/or murder because it has happened and the "deserves what is coming to you" didn't seem exactly harmless in the way that you phrased it. Since I prematurely accused you of false intentions, I apologize. Truth is, I'm not necessarily a fan of transwomen, especially lately. I feel disrespected, uncomfortable and taken less seriously because of them. I feel like the women who fought for us biological women are getting shit on. I just don't think physically hurting someone who lied about their gender is how this should be solved. I suppose I'm too sensitive and just clutching my pearls for no reason. I get that I probably shouldn't have this big of an opinion since I have no idea how I'd react if I was a guy in a situation like this but still. Again, I apologize for my presumptions.
"I feel out of place like I'm not supposed to be here... like my opinion isn't valid." Well, you're a man in woman's clothing in a woman's space talking about how to empower women. Soooo... That sounds pretty on par.
She transitioned at 14???
“They’re not coming after kids guys I swear!!!”
Upset trans women cant leave the Ukraine but doesn't mention men not being able to leave.
A pretty clear example of her bias causing a blind spot.
It's probably just ingrained in her that "well duh of course men should stay and fight" and she doesn't ask "why?"
Why doesn't everyone in Ukraine just leave the country instead of fighting?
Why don't they just have the women and children fight alongside the men to defend the country?
If she could answer these questions, it would make more sense why trans women aren't allowed to leave Ukraine, *along with the men.*
Can't help but crack a smile when I hear "not all trans athletes are Lea Thomas". Same logic as "well I'm a man/white and my life sucks so male/white privilege isn't a thing", which is an argument I'm sure they're familiar with.
Reminds me of the titty streamers. Sure, they're not all Amouranth, but they clearly have a built in advantage and get a huge head start on making an easy living wage.
"Am i overthinking this?"
Sweetheart, you've been overthinking since you were 14.
The problem I'm hearing Right away is that it seems like she believes that you should or should not say something because of the potential that someone else might believe you and follow you.
As if truth and the ability to speak it are dependent on other people's feelings
"I just wanna be seen as a woman, not a trans woman"
"As a trans woman" "as a trans woman" "as a trans woman"
🤔🤔🤔
That’s probably because the conversation is about trans issues. It’s probably different in a general context
@@moonlightrouge3956 yeah cuz Trans women are not women 🤣
@@moonlightrouge3956 thats probably fair, but if they expect other people to police their language when speaking to them then they need to go above and beyond when policing their own speech.
@@sedevri864 that's a bit unfair. She had some dogshit takes, but she didn't seem like a big language policing type.
@@alex-qd6of Im not saying she is pro censorship, I'm saying that she needs to be more careful about the concepts her own words convey if she expect other people to do the same. And considering how she was speaking about platforming TERFs and such, it seems like a double standard.
‘No uterus, no opinion’ is used in the context of reproductive rights and while mainly directed at cis men (obvs) also refers to some cis women and trans men. This lady is feeling excluded from an issue that doesn’t directly effect her and should probably try to be a little less narrow-minded in the way she thinks about it.
Being a trans person in 2022 is literally like 95% complaining about being excluded from things that necessarily exclude the sex you were born as.
I can’t believe this person took that uterus statement as a personal attack.
Sorry, males don’t have uteruses.
@@Jay-qu2bc you people can repeat that mantra as much as you want, but it wont stop me and everybody else from saying what we have to say.
if you abort a 4month old fetus, you are a murderer. this has nothing to to with an uterus and everything with being human.
Was the no uterus thing a new thing, since they say trans women are women and to be a women is to feel like one, is this a around about way of saying biological men can't talk about it.
Okay but let's be real "no uterus no opinion" is a pretty stupid approach to abortion discourse regardless of how it affects trans people.
It'd be like if a dude said "women shouldn't be allowed to talk about male circumcision."
Then again considering most of the takes women give on that topic, I wouldn't blame him.
Im personally up in the air about if it would be plausible for me to date a trans person. but it ABSOLUTELY is grape if you've been making out with someone, all handsy, or in a growing relationship under the assumption of what you are getting into and then getting something VERY different. if you are at the point of feelings growing it should be time to put it out there. Im not saying hand shake and going "btw I'm trans". but when you cross the threshold of friendship into something more... its time to be truthful. to me its a form of catfishing. and I hate someone that is deceitful or a liar. so even if I were absolutely on board with the possibility. I would be LIVID and feel taken advantage of.
Why wait that long? Dont waste your time or mine. Tell me immediately. Trying to hide it until youre more sure the person isnt going to leave is just as manipulative. Either Im going to be okay with it or I'm not, and Im not, so just be open about it from the start and spare us both the time wasting.
Even then, I think the situation where you dont know is going to be pretty small. Most of the time its fairly obvious, but even still, have the courtesy.
@@vangoghsseveredear Agreed!
Another thing is that she fails to understand that it's not about how she feels it's about how the people being competed against feel, since THEY are the ones being disparaged
This. The only people who have any actual space in the room to talk are the female athletes. They have to bear the consequences. If their consensus ends up being fine with it all, then fine I support what they choose. I don't give a fuck as it doesn't affect me directly anyways.
32:30 "people aren't talking about this very specific human rights issue affecting < 1% of the population while a WAR IS GOING ON"
Imagine my shock
Just a heads up you actually want this guy:
@@TonyCox1351 fuck you're right
Equality for all! Women and children not first!
And here I thought it was a "special operation"
🙄
@@zdubzz1280 Actually, Ukraine was at the border sending trans "women" back to fight on the front lines.
The Ukrainian situation that was briefly brought up perfectly exemplifies the disassociation surrounding this trans sports issue. Amidst the tragedy of war the suffering of the tiniest of minorities is brought to light with complete disregard for the fact that no individual of any gender wants to risk their life for war. Just as the potential suffering of cis woman in sports is entirely overlooked and undermined.
That part actually triggered me.
Men being forced to die fighting a war against their will? Perfectly fine!
Trans women in the same situation? An outrage!
She almost said the quiet part out loud: that men dying doesn't matter because she doesn't care about men.
"It's an outrage that these trans women are being condemned to death as if they were men! They're not, they're actual people, their lives matter!"
And Destiny didn't challenge her on any of it.
It pisses me off because it seems nobody cares about men in that situation. Everyone still sees men as disposable, as less valuable.
@@jogadorjnc Spot on. Unbelievable.
@@jogadorjnc Yeh unfortunately men are not granted much consideration especially among the discourse surrounding trans sports.
So much so that even trans men are completely ignored. Is it really due to the fact that they wouldn't perform competitively. As if people are just looking for a trans poster child without any moral or ethical consideration.
@@jogadorjnc I wouldn't say that everybody thinks men are disposable. I'm a natural-born gal, and I caught the hypocrisy of what she was saying. I don't think anyone should be forced to stay in Ukraine, or fight any War, if they don't want to. Conversely, I think if you're going to draft men, you should draft fighting age women as well (providing they don't have little ones to look after).
@@alex-qd6of I agree with your takes entirely.
The "everyone" part was kind of an exaggeration. Not everyone thinks that, just enough people for it to be the default societally accepted take.
Honestly feels like I’m losing
My mind when I speak to someone who tells me a trans Womens is a real women.
Am I in the twilight zone?! How can a women have ever been a man before lol. Like dude. This type of nonsense is so distracting, we have real shit to worry about.
Given that trans people are biologically distinct from cis people even before birth, it's not that "a woman was a man" so much as this person always had a misalignment between various sexually dimorphic structures and that they only became more fully aware of it later in life.
23:00 most people can tell if you’re trans, the vast majority of you do not pass.
"It doesn't feel like I belong there." It's because you don't.
You're an outlier, you need to come to terms with that. There's a lot of societial mechanisms that don't apply to people that aren't "normal" like people missing limbs, people with mental issues, people with rare disorders etc.
That doesn't make you or them wrong. It just means you both have room to grow. But you can only control yourself and how you feel, so start there.
except this particular group has decided to brute force total acceptance of all the contridictatory things they have said, with the threat of "maybe we call your job" or what have you, at this point I just agree with them, not out of fear, or that I believe everything they say (quite the opposite now, but not earlier, years ago) but out of sheer convenience , whatever it takes to move along.
exactly. as a feminist i don’t really give a shit if trans women “feel” included when they listen to stupid catch phrases.
Based
Obviously not the same level, but as a left-hander, I just had to come to term that many things in society are simply not made with us in mind. It's stupid stuff, generally unimportant, but they're a regular, mildly frustrating reminder that I'm a minority that's powerless over that. I like that mug? Made for the right hand. Signing stuff in an official building? Pen is held on the right side with a way too short chain. Need scissors? You better have good ones if they're not for left-handers, or I simply can't use them. It's surprisingly common. And don't get me started on music instruments…
But how often do you see left-handers outside marching for acceptance or shouting for convenience? Simply never… We just _deal with it_
The spirit of their movement is in the right place, it's the speed at which they want to achieve the goal that's the problem for me.
After listening in to a couple of conversations, I get the feeling that trans people don't get the idea that acceptance like this just takes TIME, like, "you may not even be around by the time full acceptance is reached" amount of time.
They need to be patient and realize that if were talking in terms of generations, this is a fairly new thing, and people aren't used to it. Of course people will feel uncomfortable around them, may give them odd looks, may even make fun of them (it happens), but they gotta understand that this is all part of a phase, and not everyone is an asshole for reacting in a non-appreciative, worshipping manner.
Maybe it's a social media thing, but for some reason, people were 'trained' to think that anyone who doesn't accept them wholesale unconditionally is an immediate, full-blown bigot that deserves to be canceled, fired, ridiculed, and all these nasty shit which only dampens any potential goodwill from onlookers and creates friction and pushback from people who would've been initially fine with the whole thing.
Then there's all sorts of trespassing over current norms, like trans being able to go inside spaces traditionally exclusive to women, like is it so hard to imagine that keeping men and women separate is more of an safety issue and not a trans one? can't you just turn the other cheek and use the men's space and find your own cubicle to avoid having a fuss, like just for now? or accept the possibility that a bad apple can take advantage of the trans movement and make them look bad by pretending to be trans with the purposes of doing sexual harassment?
And there's the thing with the children, which obviously crossed a line, and now the movement has the attention of parents, and not the good kind of attention.
Like the trans people couldn't have made this any harder on themselves if they tried.
I hear the rest of the alphabet group sometimes call out this behavior, so maybe there's hope. But it feels like they're an ignored minority in this.
If you aren’t ashamed to be trans, disclose it to anyone you are thinking about being with. You aren’t telling him immediately because you’re worried that he won’t want you after. That’s literally being dishonest.
If it’s rape for a man to take a condom off during sex without letting the woman know, then revealing you are trans after sex has begun when he thought you a cis woman……
As a woman it is extremely disingenuous and misogynist for any man to think they can live a day in our shoes or think you’re any better than other people pretending to be something they’re not. You are no different than drag queens except they actually have respect for women and what we’ve go through, the spaces we’ve fought for, and understand the very clear differences between us and men.
What a brain-dead take. This woman transitioned when she was 14 and has lived her life as a woman since puberty. There is almost no part of womanhood that she doesn't experience.
@@Vasilia4 Grooming a male into medical malpractice via hormones and amputation at a young age doesn't make him a woman. Enabling his dysphoria by calling him "she/her" and "woman" will not make him a woman. Nothing anyone says or does will ever change the fact that he is not a woman. The sooner pro-affirmation people accept that, the sooner everyone can move on to other issues.
I agree with you on, basically everything except for the part here where you say "It's not necessarily about performance and results" I think that's a slip and definitely not the case, because people in competitive spots compete exclusively to win (maybe there's an argument to make that they compete to be top 3 and go for a medal/title/spot in the Olympics), and that's a huge source of motivation for athletes. Nobody competes to be 10th at something (unless they've just started to compete and are very realistic xD, but the drive is still to be the best, to be the #1) and if you take that possibility away, you take that motivation away and that's a big, big, big issue. Doesn't matter if it's college competition, national or the Olympics. Just that sole sentence is a slip imo, but I agree with the rest of the vid, best wishes :)
Always enjoy hearing someone complaining about not being accepted, then complain about people they don’t accept. Maybe have a little self confidence in who you are so you don’t care if people associate drag people with you.
As someone with very little self confidence, I agree with this statement.
That sounds hard, making other people make your life easier sounds more convenient. :D
They didnt seem like a bad person but the entitlement, jesus
@@knes167 part of the whole victim mentality thats being propagated in todays society.
Not to mention being such a hypocrite that she can't understand that terfs feel the exact way about her as she does about drag queens.
"But it's ok when I do it."
@@Va11idus exactly
A big issue is that the belief that hormones basically make you what you feel you are in a physiological sense is very comforting to people with gender dysphoria, but it doesn't fully track with reality in a sports context.
The fact that people think hormones is the only ontological distinction is depressing and makes me feel like this generation skipped biology.
Joint strength, faster recovery from training, skeletal frame,ung capacity and more are all things that are real biological advantages that people who "won't cede any ground to Terfs ever" all deny even exist or that they provide any competitive advantage whatsoever.
Fucking crazy delusional
People be thinking hormones work like that scene in One Piece with Ivankov and the prisoner
@@ponquin wrong and this also completely clashes with the “female vs male brain” idea that lots of trans people like to spout
@@stakahz4513 if you transition before puberty, how is it wrong? Are you not for all intents and purposes (when it comes to sports) a woman then? How do you have an advantage if you never had a masculinizing puberty?
I'm so tired. Glad to have you as women. Welcome. I love being a woman and I am so happy you've joined us. At the same time, and by a cruel accident of birth I agree is terrible and wish were different, don't get me wrong, you just can't be given a royal pass to do all the things a cis woman can do sometimes, like compete in women's college and above professional sports as is. Not until the leveling is better than it still is now. Just like I couldn't be given a pass to do all the same things a cis male can do, like play in men's football, which that girl who did NOT subscribe to reality pushed for, got her wish, and got her pelvis broken for it the very first time she was tackled (who couldn't have seen that coming). I, like many, reserved final judgement for that Scottish organization to weigh in, considered if I'm not mistaken the finest on earth for what it does, and they said we're not there yet.
Even outside of trans sports issues, there's unfairness. That's life. I'm epileptic, and have not met rhe DMV requirements for what's considered long enough since I've had a seizure to drive for quite some time. Just because I want to drive doesn't mean I just can, because though I have a variety of nature's injustice I was born with, it would be untair to the other drivers. I can't make up for my own injustice by committing another injustice to others.
That's what this would be. I've alwayd agreed with Steven's stance on it, which is up through high school and then in recreational leagues. And no, we aren't just going to be unfair to the bigger droves of cis women in women's sports for the fewer trans women who want to be in women's sports, like they are similar in numbers - they aren't - just because yay trans. Nor are we going to get rid of women's sports altogether if trans women can't currently participate as much as they want to, which is what some suggest. That's ridiculous.
It's exhausting because as a cis woman who wants effective advocacy for trans folks, the unreality makes it so hard to prove to people on the fence that you're not unhinged, when you seem so batshit crazy to them, because so many of you online and on television ARE taking batshit crazy stances. There is a Eugenia Cooney subreddit about her (you know, the anorexic girl who's currently unapologetically televising her own death from starvation), whose banner reads, "the transphobe Eugenia Cooney," with a quote about her expressing skepticism a long time ago about the genders underneath it. Because yeah, that's the real issue there, that her starving brain isn't sure about the genders. It can't possibly be that the biggest problem is actually that she's enabling droves of young pro-anorexic fans in their most vulnerable years for ED, who use her as "thinspiration." My God, the obsessive need for you guys to always be in the brightest spotlight more than anyone else is just off the charts.
I'm glad you guys are getting a dose of your own medicine with the non-binary folks, though, who are even more unhinged than you this same main character syndrome kind of way, because I see increasing complaints by you guys that they're putting themselves ahead of you in your support groups to where you can't even get a word in edgewise. Good, you need a lesson in humility before you succeed in killing your own movement. Please, help us help you.
This lady was a tad less unhinged than most I thought, until she said the rapey behavior towards men was justified because sometimes some men inappropriate. Again with that balancing the scales at the expense of others. Even she knew that was a whopper, but still. Jesus Christ. Get mad if you want, but this is just real talk, woman to woman, ladies. You must chill.
Nice
Very wonderfully said. I'm so sorry you have epilepsy, but you are a really strong and admirable woman. ❤❤❤
@@pigtailsandteddybears Aww, why thank you! That just made my day, aren't you sweet, what a lovely reply! And thanks for saying that about my epilepsy too, fortunately my husband knows just what to do if I have a seizure, so we're able to manage it well. And thank you for reading to the loong end, you're my hero in that as well ;)
18:11 I found it funny when Destiny said “on one side you’ve got trans people, and other side you’ve got delusional people…”
Wait…aren’t the trans people delusional?!
Its very simple, people like this don't care if there is an advantage, they have an ideological need for them to be included, it isn't grounded in fairness or logic or anything else, you cannot argue against their position, its locked in.
This is also kind of a silly argument; you're not as logical as you think. People who play sports love sports, and they want to be able to compete. This is a normal thing to really, really want. It's not black and white.
The concept of an "unfair advantage" is something that is quite a gray area in competitions. Take ADHD medication for example. Adderall is kind of a huge performance-enhancing tool for a lot of athletes and gamers. So do you ban it? Then what happens to people who genuinely need it because they have really bad ADHD? Should we say they're ineligible? Or do they have a special exception?
"Fairness" is not black or white. Tall players are going to have an advantage over short players in a great many different sports. So if trans women have a competitive advantage, is it a big deal? Gender divisions alone are kind of a weird thing in sports. In 1992, Zhan Shang won the Olympic Gold Medal for skeet shooting, which was at the time a co-ed event. Women were then banned from skeet shooting at the '96 Olympics. Eventually, they were allowed back in, under a Women's Skeet Shooting competition. So do women have a competitive advantage over men in this game? Or did certain men get angry that they lost to a woman? Are chess divisions gendered because men have a competitive advantage? Or because they don't want to lose to a woman?
The following interpretations have equal merit:
Trans women have a competitive advantage in womens sports and therefore we should ban them.
Trans women have a competitive advantage in womens sports and we should just accept that, like being able-bodied, tall, and being born with great reflexes, these things just happen.
I don't really know where I stand on the issue, but I think the frustration from a lot of trans people is that this discussion is way more heavily scrutinized than, say, stimulants in sports. In many sports, if you can prove that your ADHD medication is medically necessary, you are still allowed to compete, even with your "competitive advantage". Olympic contenders for GOAT Simon Biles and Michael Phelps both have ADHD and get medicated for it. No one's calling their victories illegitimate. Obviously, this is also a gray area and those rules don't apply everywhere, but you don't see South Park making crude mockeries of ADHD athletes. There's something very charged here, something very disproportionate about the way people criticize this specific scenario. It's probably the most anyone has ever seen women's sports on the news, and that's kind of sad.
Definitely. As long as they get a slice of the pie, they don't care on who's expense. And really, do we wait for transwomen to dominate women's sports before we do something about it? Kinda dumb coming from that transwoman.
I'm a straight dude and I feel excluded too. It has nothing to do with being trans. It can be a whole line of other mental illnesses contributing to that.
Simple answer to the trans issue in Ukraine: If you have the capacity to give birth or you are a child, you can leave. Likely their reasoning.
Imagine disliking terfs for being exclusionary and then trying to hate on drag and femboys…
especially with how rose said "i am not saying drag queens need to stop, just that it makes me feel uneasy". thats how most GC women feel about trans women lol. like i think its weird & kind of uncomfortable that some males want so bad to be a part of my sex class that they will change everything about their appearance and behavior and even risk their lives for it but i don't care to ban any of that stuff
Someone invoking “talking points” as a means to dismissively avoid addressing the point isn’t progress, nor even a lateral move. It’s a passive regression and actively counterproductive
Well she kept falling back to "this isnt the hill I want to die on" every single time destiny brought up a good point so she must've known she was wrong deep down, (about the trans sport issue specifically) because youd only say that if you felt like you were losing a ton of ground & had your back against the wall.
A true Hasan move
@@frankmarano1118 Its also being able to admit that you're wrong... "This isn't the hill I want to die on" isn't admitting you concede it just means you want the argument to end and brush it away while you quickly rush to the next point. There is nothing wrong with being inaccurate or ignorant. Id rather be ignorant and learn than delusional and refuse to learn.
@@michealwatts7469 absolutely 100%. When I argue if I ever am shown I was actually wrong I'll immediately concede & be like, "wow I didnt know that so I thought it was like so & so. Appreciate you telling me that" because I like to learn new things. But yup she was basically just saying I want this to be over.
& it's funny because she was talking about "talking points" when she ironically had her own talking points geared up & ready to go. "College sports is just having fun, you dont think they should be able to have fun?" was basically her framing it in a disingenuous way to make her opponent look bad when she knows college sports is a pretty serious thing for those in it. Like destiny said you can join any other league if it's just to make friends & have fun
Welcome to the modern left
She doesn’t understand it isn’t just “have better arguments”. This backlash is giving the people you don’t like ammunition because you’re WRONG and not willing to engage with that or anything else. The fact that she said I don’t want to die on that hill, but literally almost dies on that hill is insane. You need to understand not everything is about you’re specific groups benefit but instead what is right objectively(seemingly objective).
How many of these trans people don’t understand competitive sports aren’t just “Fun”. These are actually careers and opportunities in which women are ALREADY struggling in some sports, specifically the WNBA who lives off the NBA just so women have a space to be competing. Not having this basic understanding shows the bias, and unwillingness to engage or inform yourself of what they hell your talking about before you die on hills that your side is pushing just because it’s your side.
I would say be individuals but I feel like even that would be taken to the extreme similar to the enlightened centrist who just say both sides bad. Smfh we are doomed
Yeah I said in another comment that you dont say "this isnt the hill I want to die on" every single time a good point is brought up unless you know that you're wrong deep down. It's not a phrase someone says when they know they're in the right because theyd die on that hill as many times as it takes because that's what you do when you know you're in the right. (About the trans sport issue specifically) & yeah her acting like college sports is like 1st grade PE only about having fun was just clearly not true. It's very very competitive & makes or totally messes up someones goals in life
I think Destiny is wrong as far as trans girls playing High School sports, as well. They're already getting pretty competitive, and that's where College scholarships are given out. Inevitably, some of those will be going to trans women, now.
There are states where trans girls can compete on girls teams, without having been on puberty blockers or taking female hormones. We're all just pretending that they're regular girls... not males who changed their names, grew their hair, and called it a day.
@@alex-qd6of what states does that occur without blockers?
@@alex-qd6of It is getting competitive but it's nowhere near what its like in college. 95 to 99% of people who play high school sports wont be scouted for college teams & a single trans person on a highschool team isnt going to make the schools MVP all star athlete not get scouted. People straight up not even that good at sports play on high school teams. It likely wouldnt change much but in college sports every position is fought over tooth & nail.. it's a whole other world. Theres another discussion on whether or not someone pre transition should be allowed in the same locker rooms or whatever because it can make girls uncomfortable changing in front of a male, & there are other issues that need to be addressed for high school for sure, but I think destinys position is pretty fair.
You put every feeling i had during this painful talk into words, thank you. The issue for me is, that some of her talking points are so ill informed but yet for normies hard to argue against, so it's pretty easy for these people to run you over with virtuos arguments you better agree on.
7:09 i have a very good anecdote from my life. In high school i was a very good discus thrower.. not state level but i went to our regions 5 years in a row and my senior year i went to states.. got crushed lol but i made it there.
Discus was the one sport i loved and only thing athletic i did.
When i got to college i really wanted to throw discus and i went to a state college.. not in the top 100 colleges, not big for their sports really. I went into one of their practices and talked to the coach and said i really wanted to throw discus. His direct answer was “unless you’re going to break records there is no chance of you throwing.. we already are maxed out and due to regulations we have to have so many women and we cant afford to bring you on unless you’re top level.
And this was a school that.. is not known for being competetive in any of the big college sports. So no… you can’t just “play for fun”
And honestly even though a lot of times anyone can get onto a sports team in high school. Kids take it VERY seriously bc there are always scouts looking to recruit for colleges and even the circumstance that happened in a local track team in high school.. these girls got bumped from running in their state competition bc 2 huge, muscular black dudes said they were trans and took the spots of these 2 girls who have been busting their ass all through high school and this was their big moment. And people like this dont give a fuck about those girls whos sports dream was ruined and possibly lost college scholarships bc two massive men said they were trans and they got to go to the huge competition that they had dedicated years of training to earn.., fucked up.
So its a misnomer that even high school sports is just for fun, 80-90% of kids take it VERY seriously… their lived revolve around perusing being good at that from dieting and training weights and all the practices. Its not taken lightly at all
Yeah it's mindboggling watching lefties say "gender and sex are different" when it came to social interactions (gender being socially constructed), but when it comes to the biological part that distinction no longer exists.
It does not take an expert to deduce that transition is an extreme change to ones body, and where that info might be relevant, such as in a medical setting, or competitive one in this case. But no, we gotta ignore that because it's not about having the right reasoning it's about the social credit and virtue signaling.
wow, thats a really good observation put succinctly af.
They do the same thing with race as well. Sadly, a lot of Leftists are incredibly for diversity, which is a wonderful thing, but don't actually want to admit that differences exist. The cognitive dissonance is a terrible thing.
@@attackmaster519 how is it the same thing for race, and how is it done?
@@tb8654 Pretty simple, many leftists push for diversity in basically every aspect of society(which by itself isn’t necessarily a bad thing) due partly to the fact that different groups bring different cultures and different ideas. Then when a conservative tries to argue that a certain group holds a certain idea or their culture tends to behave in a certain way, then it is considered racist.
@@stakahz4513 Depends on the people engaging in the conversation though.
Very, very often conservatives addressing cultural issues related to demographic groups will use an "ALL this do X and they're terrible" rhetoric, even when it's only a minor subset or minority of that group which actively engages in the behavior the conservatives are critical of.
And that *is* racist.
If we use imprecise language and make generalizations of a whole demographic group based off of feelings rather than facts, it should be called out for what it is whether it be racism, transphobia, weird lefty-fuck genocidal ideas with no base in reality etc. etc.
totally insane to be arguing against drag as a trans person. goto a drag show and talk to these people my god
m8 drag is literally just black for for trans people
"but they are just men pretending so its harmless right?" so were the people doing black face
@@dickjohnson8983 Blackface is white people offensively pantomiming black people with intent to mock. Drag is men positively pantomiming women with intent to entertain and appreciate. If they were doing "transface", as it were, their costumes and mannerisms would be offensive caricatures of trans women, not simply exaggerated portrayals of femininity itself.
Never mind the intentions and origins being entirely different, even if we were to go with the asinine assertion that drag is "blackface", it would be blackface of cis women, not trans women. Drag queens aren't attempting to look like trans women, they mostly impersonate/are inspired by iconic female performers.
The only tie between trans women and drag queens is their both being biological males dressing feminely. Trans women dislike drag Queens because they don't like seeing men look like they do, they hate and do the same thing with male makeup artists like James Charles just as much.
By that logic any man wearing nail polish or woman who cuts her hair short are committing cultural appropriation towards trans people like a white person in cornrows lol
@@SaVanityVan >its not offensive because i say so
Ya no
@@dickjohnson8983 >it is offensive because I say so
@@dickjohnson8983 drag has been in the cultural eye longer than many trans issues. At what point did drag queens decide that it is no longer about celebrating and preforming but instead about mocking trans people?
This just happened to me the other day. I think they’re too focused on the optics of that people find common ground on their stances on transgender people in sports. Their stance is, don’t discuss it, don’t say nothing if its something that conservatives might agree with.
About drag queens: "You're preforming an identity that's like not true to yourself."
Hate to break it to you, but that's you. That's literally what you're doing.
Trans women pretending like they’re any different than rupaul are hilarious.
Scratch that. Atleast rupaul doesn’t act like wearing drag makes him an actual woman
Neither of those things are true
No, it's not.
Imagine negatively labeling a group of people (TERFS) and then getting angry when you face criticism.
Also that feeling that you shouldn't be there in these spaces is because you shouldn't.
Terfs named themselves actually.
Your first sentence is incoherent. Terf is not a label it is a movement based on your opinion. If you think that transwomen shouldnt be included in feminism then you are a terf. It is nothing somebody else forces onto you.
The reason why it is negatively seen is because the position is antithetical to feminism .
I don't see any contradiction at all. Trans exclusionary radical feminist is a pretty apt description.
@@heinshaaine8153 [The reason why it is negatively seen is because the position is antithetical to feminism]
Literally, the only way you can actually believe this is to be completely uneducated on the history and evolution of feminist philosophy.
@@cjohnson3836 being against women is antithetical to feminism
The only bad thing about the trans movement is trying to make it seem normalized and hating on people that don’t see it as normal like if someone ate nothing but glass you might be like “huh that’s not normal” and then they go “what do you eat food?” Like you’re the odd one out
The only bad thing? What about the rapists in women’s prisons…
I enjoyed this conversation and how civil it was. It's nice when two people can disagree without raising their voices.
My biggest gripe is how these few people want everyone else to change their beliefs all because of their own beliefs? How can you want everyone else to change and sacrifice without you yourself making sacrifices? Again it’s hypocritical!
I love how no one no one ever on planet earth has ever heard of the term “draft dodger”
I’m not going to say she has male privilege necessarily, but I also don’t like how trans women seem to brush away the validity of growing up as a girl rather than a boy. Young girls, starting at 8-10 when they start getting breasts, are immediately sexualized by grown men. This is a very difficult thing for young girls to deal with, and it’s something that all females have to struggle through. She will never have to deal with that experience or the life long impact of living that reality. It bothers me that she seems to feel the need to diminish the unique female experience in order to validate herself.
That and the fact that we get monthly, uncomfortable, painful, inconvenient periods, and dealing with birth control and the fear of getting pregnant. It's such a major part of being a woman and one of the few things that all women, no matter what your background, connects us together.
i love you for drawing the amogus and fucking playing the theme on piano mid convo you're a legend, seriously.
Apparently Ukraine has been preventing cis-women from leaving the country too, so it's not discrimination again transwomen to keep them in country to fight.
I'm really trying to wrap my mind around the cushiony existance one needs to have lived to hear about a nation getting invaded and immediately think that it's really not fair to insist that the non-gender conforming citizens fight to defend their homeland.
I obviously agree that on the hierarchy of problems facing Ukraine right now, forcing trans women into military service is so low on the ladder it's hardly worth talking about.
But as a hypothetical it's an interesting situation to explore. As an example do you think trans women should be drafted for the military, like men are, or should they be exempt, like women are?
@@moderatelysavage4071 women should be drafted just like men are. There’s plenty of jobs for them to do.
@@moderatelysavage4071 considering that, if they are actually transitioning, they are actively weakeneing themselves, i'd say keep them out of the draft. i'm of the mind that, women(and people identifying as women), shouldn't be allowed into combat roles in the military(specifically, on the ground, foot solider types.). it's just a bad thing hands down. be an engineer, a medic, pilot, or so on, but the basic foot soldier, shouldn't be a woman. for a multitude of reasons, the biggest one being, they make the people around them, less effective, by their presence. because, as a woman, you can't run as far, as long, especially while carrying the heavy gear, that men can. your body also actively works against you(periods, for example), at times. and, with the squad mentality, and format, of the military, if you slow down, your slowing down every else. if you can't go as long, everyone around you can't.
engineers, and medics, can obviously get into combat occasionally, i don't think they should stay out in such a situation. but for the basic foot soldier types, i don't think women should be allowed at all. the military should strive to be as effective as possible, because if it doesn't, people die.
@@moderatelysavage4071 Until they've had the bottom surgery; I say we put a rifle in their hands and send them off.
@@moderatelysavage4071 cis women and children are not drafted so that the population can be partly saved should many die at war. I think this is still a good way to operate. In my opinion, to avoid draft dodging, trans women should still fight unless they do not meet the base strength or mass of average men. I also believe that trans men should fight if they meet the same averages. However; a draft is an emergency situation. And in an emergency i think eceryone who is able bodied tends to be drafted, male or female, but i may be incorrect.
In an emergency situation, i guess all convention flies out the window anyway. In a perfect world no one would fight in wars.
I wish destiny had just said plainly, just because you want to be Included in certain spaces does not mean those spaces have to be inclusive for you. As a trans woman, you do not belong in all woman's spaces and destiny pointed it out very politely. If you wish to join and be apart of a space you have to have some level of shared experience. I can't go to a black space and expect to have any inclusivity or voice If I am not black. Just like I can't go to a woman's space and expect a measure of inclusivity there. There are men's spaces that I can't be apart of because I don't have a measure of shared experience and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying trans people should be excluded from all spaces but the reality has to set in that some spaces are made and protected for certain groups of people and by virtue of just "being" doesn't grant me access to those spaces.
Ok then by this logic, people don't get to come into our white spaces and expect a voice :)
@@vinchinzo594 I mean is that really in dispute?
@@MrBulldog855 Of course this is in dispute. These kind of ethical or social 'rules' and mores tend to be believed only up to the point where white people are concerned and then the rules change.
@@vinchinzo594 let me clarify, my comment did not dispute this claim.
@@MrBulldog855 Good for your comment. Are you implying there was no need, then, for me to write mine? Okay. Nor was there a need to write yours. You did it anyway. As did I. Take care.
My biggest gripe with people not telling you they are trans, is that they expect you to ask what their pronouns are etc, expect you to respect the fact they are trans, but they dont even feel that they have to tell you about it. I feel like being trans is a pretty big deal in a relationship, if you are even going on a date with someone you should tell them, dont play with people's feelings. If someones fine with dating trans people them knowing from the start wont affect anything. But if someone isnt ok with it, they could feel forced after gaining feelings for the other person, even though they still don't feel comfortable with it then you end up in a horrible situation
Miss interesting convos like these on the stream
Is it just me or did this feel like she was so self-centered that it became borderline bigoted?
Other people being themselves while minding their own business... is that really a problem in itself or does it become a problem cause you make it about yourself?
Most of these types suffer from egomania.
@@Octavian2 I see no reasons to treat it as an issue of category.
Philosophy Tubes video on transphobia argues persuasively that, no, "live and let live" is not viable in a trans positive society.
@@Abridgelion Wait...the goal is neutrality not positivity?! I don't hoorah people for their indentities in general. Otherwise that always leaves the issue of the levels of positivity over the whole spectrum.
Positivity should be reserved for people one has a personal relationship with. At least in my opinion.
I might check that video out. Maybe i just don't get it yet.
@@Abridgelion Allright, watched 6 minutes of it and disagree with the single premise of metaphysical skepticism and the case of transphobia being fundamentally different to the seemingly much more similar phobias.
I need to take a break, they are focusing on their narrative style so much, that it appears to meas much more theater than actual information.
Bleeding and crawling in agony, their silhouette eclipses the horizon, "This isn't the hill I want to die on..... but."
And as I watch the drops of rain
Weave their weary paths and die
I know that I am like the rain
There but for the grace of you, go I
Lmfao this actually made me laugh irl 😂😂
They talk about rape and sexual assault and never mention consent. How is that possible?
Rose seems like she's not in a place to convince Destiny of her point of view, but rather he's a soundboard for her to work out her thoughts and organize them in a ways that can be more effective and communicative in the future
If she spent a little less time thinking the turf scarecrow in her head is gonna say, she'd be happier and could hold coherent beliefs which also align with reality/biology.
Also wtf stop denying drag people's experience. Lack of empathy is stunning.
A trans person being selfish and wanting society to mold around their own personal beliefs? No way...
Yea she wants everyone to have empathy for her and validate her experience and identity, but anything that she deems as "not true to their identity" she condemns them and demands that they shouldnt be representing women by wearing drag, but if you ask a conservative or terf they will just say that trans-women are doing the exact same thing to womens identity, and that's obviously transphobic
I sort of get the drag argument since when I do crossdressing or femboy things they'll call me a drag queen even when there are clear differences between femboy/crossdressing and drag queens. I'm not a big muscular man or anything that would reassemble what drag is but some people use that word to just mean cross-dressing so It does become a "black face" feeling when you see them. But I also understand that's just people having very little understanding about it.
It did get me thinking about if Jim crow things would be similar because it's laughing at over the top traits and actions with black face. Drag queen does feel similar where it's laughing at over the top make-up and muscular men in women's clothing etc. But I might also just have a warped perception on the situation.
@@Rare987 The way she described the crossdressing thing, it felt like they were insecure about themselves. They said something like "Is that how they see me?", and that was the nail in the head. Like she feels that other people see trans women (her) as drag queens/cross dressers. I totally get that sentiment, but damn, that doesn't mean people shouldn't dress in drag. Drag queens/crossdressers are not dressing that way to mock trans women; they just like the clothes and dressing up in them. Let people be themselves.
Although some guys dress in drag as a joke or to be humorous, they are most likely not making fun of trans women either. Most of the time in these situations the joke is "haha look at me, I'm wearing girls clothes" not "haha look at me, I'm a trans woman".
@@EpicSymphony1 100% agree. It is 100% the feeling of "do I look like that when I do it?" When the word is brought up for non drag situations and can be very disheartening.
I guess though for a counter argument for an extreme case. Is that far enough away from Jim crow themes? It's an over exaggeration of traits that were used to laugh at even if they put a lot of effort into. It would be like saying "I get sentiment that black face makes black people feel like they are being laughed at or mocked but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to use black face" I don't think it would fly if we were talking about any other marginalised group. I don't agree with the crossdressing part being the problem though because I don't believe that was used as much of a joke as drag was. Maybe race is not a good comparison but maybe it's what is needed for a marginalised group comparing to another marginalised group just to keep things cohesive in how we handle these situations.
"When you're scared of having a conversation because you're scared of sounding like the bad guy, then the only people who are going to have those conversations are the bad guys."
Underrated.
Such a based thing to say 👌
Or people with a little courage
@6:48: "This isn't a hill I wanna die over."
Translation: This is a claim I want to put forward without having to do the work to defend it."
“We’re kinda still figuring things out”
And one of things we’re figuring out is affirmation therapy is probably not sustainable or ethical in most cases presenting today in the current climate.
In most cases treating trans women as women works perfectly fine. We just need to maintain the ability to make the distinction when it is necessary (like sports).
@@pointlesstwat8927why is affirmation therapy banned in Europe?
@@pointlesstwat8927 Wouldn't it be more philosophically consistent if in all arenas of life to just treat gender dysphoric (fe)males as gender non-conforming (fe)males, which is exactly what they are?
"this isn't the hill I want to die on"
*dies on hill
Saying trans women shouldn't compete in sport with cis women is not transphobic, as much as some people take it that way. It's not denying their existence or out of hatred for trans people. It's just making a statement that it's not fair for cis women. Like men not being allowed in women's sports is not because of hatred of men.
27:00 very very dangerous situation to be in. With a man. With woman, co*k you did not ask for waved in person in front of you in private situation... dangerous situation?
And anyway that should not even be question of co**. Even if this lesbian notices that this hole is not a vagina, she should have right to be very upset about it.
As soon as I hear someone say that calling someone "they/them" is misgendering I lose all respect. You can't misgender someone with a universal genderless pronoun.
Gender neutral is now a gender lmao
I can understand her point.
For example, assuming you're a man, imagine if you are in a class full of man and the teacher refers to you as they/them and everyone else as He/Him.
They/them is neutral but in that moment feels excluisonary or disrespectful.
@@voychoi9923 This is disanalagous because the person in question refers to both cis and trans people as "they".
@@wisemage0 you are right
Trans here, and I guess I agree.
I think what's funnier though is seeing conservatives that complain about using 'they/them' to refer to nonbinary people, *exclusively use they/them* to refer to trans women because they don't want to call them he/him or she/her for different reasons.
E.g., using they/them to refer to people who don't fit inside their binary. But they don't accept nonbinary pronouns. FML.
(Trans women just don't want to be called they/them because it's invalidating. Just like those conservatives that don't use 'she/her'. I wouldn't call it misgendering though. @Voychoi explains it best.)
"Transgender women aren't being allowed to leave Ukraine" So is the issue that Men have to stay and fight while women, who are supposedly equal, get to avoid conscription? Or is the issue that someone's identity should prevent them from having to do the difficult and dangerous labor of defending their country?
Honestly @Destiny should have pushed her much harder on this and watch her twist into a pretzel trying to defend any point around this statement
Do you think that men and women are equal? I only ask because you say "supposedly equal"
@@lwatchingvids1059 I believe men and women are equal in different ways. I believe they deserve equal treatment under the law and all the same rights.
I was saying "supposedly equal" because of her argument that there is no physical difference between the sexes i.e. for Trans women in sports
@@mb-kp6jv I agree with you. However, Trans activists discount any differences between the sexes - which then removes any reason as to why only men should be drafted
@@mb-kp6jv the numbers for SA in the military are likely way off but i believe the numbers are rough 9% of women and 3% of men experience SA in the military which is way less than civilians for both men and women, if anything it seems women and men are LESS likely to be the victim of SA in the military than just being a civilian. But as I said these numbers are likely all wrong anyway for a multitude of factors
@@mb-kp6jv yes women are at a higher risk in all situations, all employment roles, all relationship types including marriage, all aspects of society regardless of anything they do, should women be banned from literally everything then in your view? If not why aren't you consistent in your views?
My favorite part of this video was how Destiny definitely was trying to color whole areas of the level with the pink trail and I was happy he did it.
The real issue isn’t the fact that they only make up NOT EVEN 1% of our gp. But trans “women” are now telling cis women what they can deal with…
One of the most frustrating things about the trans sports issue is that most normies I talk to don't give a shit about whether or not trans athletes are "everywhere" or "are beating women", it's almost always that the ones that get brought up go from being a middling male athlete to a very competitive female athlete. Nothing is going to set off people's BS detector more than hearing that a male athlete who was a nobody went on HRT and now they're a somebody in professional sports.
Exactly!! This has happened so much that it makes these "new sports stars " appear as frauds.
"My gender is autism" got me cryin from laughter.
"i sexually identify as an apache helicopter", isn't even a joke anymore lol.
@@Choryrth I feel offended on behalf of all of us Apache Helicopters. We have for too long been made fun of. Just like this woman was born in the wrong body ... we are in a similar predicament only our plight is significantly worse! At least she is the same species! We are mechanical beings made to live as flesh creatures. The least you humans can do is use the proper pronouns, damn bigots.
@@Choryrth still a physical object, and is otherkin, please don't conflate
@@hebrewhammer7933 Are you using the helicopter joke 2022... Destinys community have fallen. You are all just republicans now