THANK YOU!!A. I have the harpoon fixed blade in 10v and have been telling everyone for over a year it is junk. I'm almost 20 edges in and still won't hold a edge for more than 100ft
I've got the bigger one in 10v and it tested at 62.6 hrc. I haven't done extensive testing on it, but just now I stropped it to 90g on a BESS scale and then sliced about 40' of pretty heavy cardboard. After cutting, it measured at 155g, which is a pretty good result, in my opinion. After that amount of cutting, a typical M390 at 60 hrc would measure from 185-225. The blade has been sharpened at least four times, with the last being freehand at 15ish dps, done on Venev resin bonded stones.
I have the original 10v mini sheepdog without the flipper tap and it is one of the better performance knives I own. I own several K390 spyderco's all the 15v bbb sprint runs and all the 4v and rex 45 spyderco drops. I even got the 4v sheepdog after loving the 10v so much. I have sharpened it 3 times but right from the first sharpen 15 \/ angle a side I did it was a hard performer. I just cut through a piece of .75" extruded acrylic with it the other day with no issue not even a scratch on the polished edge.
Good video G. I wonder if it’s even 10v? Thanks for all your testing and info for the data logs and thanks for sharing brother it’s greatly appreciated 👊🏼
@@tacticalcenter8658 Not sure what constitutes a "marketing stunt" but they've also been using 3V in more knives. I'd be curious to see how those do for the price.
@@chronovore3726their 3v is awful too. They offer different steels to try and sell knives based on a name and not what that steel can do cause it's always too low.
Could re tempering it help improve it at all? Yeah Kizer like to run the steel on the softer side. 3V on folders and EDC fixed blades at 58-60, when it really should be around 63 preferably. 4V I had varying results with and I believe a few ones are below 60, I had a Feist XL in 4V that performs pretty well and still I believe that's only 61. Cause I have 4V & V4E knives at 63 & 64 and they blow the Kizers out the water. Their Rex 45 I think they said was between 61-63HRC. They have so many great models and if they bumped up the HRC, it would be great.
This winter I may see about doing the heat treat all over on it. I'll be done testing it by then and if it doesn't work out it's not a big deal. I didn't even think about getting Rex 45 from them. The softest Spyderco Rex45 I have is 65.4 and it's a lot like M4. My Manix in Rex45 is 67.4 rc and it's a big step above the softer PM2 I have. I can't imagine how Rex that low would be but if someone sends one I'll definitely test it.
Tempering doesn't raise the hardness up. And their rex45 was also low. It performs better than their other steels at that low hardness but still no where near normal hardness for rex45.
Kizer isn’t the best brand if you use your knives due to how soft most of their steel is. But if you just buy them for collecting and not using, they look nice.
Thanks gerald!! Seems like kizer completely failed on 10V. I had similar problems with their m390/20cv, so far only their 4V and 154cm has been working out well. Doesn't make sense why they would do a good job with 4V yet waste10V. Has anyone tested the Hrc on their 4V?
@@Outpost_76 sounds good. I know they can vary even in the same batch but still, more information is better than less. Look forward to those & other future postings.
I predict the mini at HRC 57.5😊 Got a question for you. Does DLC. Coating a knife need to lower HRC or can tempers be adjusted to prevent it? Be nice to test Spyderco as they have same models with and without DLC. I understand that the DLC process requires a certain amount of heat and that messes with temper and thus HRC. Other coatings may require different heat levels.
Back when Kurt was still testing he did some dlc Spyderco. He tested them through the coating then removed spots of it and tested again. The Spyderco stuff all ended up being .1 to .2 rc difference between tests. On other brands some do matter. The first 10V mini Sheepdog I tested had the coating taken off and it was right at 60rc.
Have you seen the thread on spyderco's mule team forum? A guy tested a kizer 10v vs a k294 mule and got results within 5%. It appeared to be a well done and documented test, but just doesnt match what I (EDIT: or you, apparently) have experienced.
Very few people have kizer 10v over 59rc. It's certainly possible there is a few out there. But it won't be more than a handful unless it's more recent and they changed the ht protocol and or aim hardness
I haven't seen that one. Until recently I haven't been following knife stuff much. I'm sure a few decent ones made it out since I've seen them as low as 57 rc there have to be some 62 rc ones out there.
@@tacticalcenter8658 Ive actually had several Kizers. A 10V medium sheepdog like in this video, that would unlock if you spinewhacked it against your palm... fixed by bending the lockbar but still it was ridiculously easy to fail it.
What I've realized is it depends what I'm doing. Most of the different steels have their place IMO. When I'm just around the house opening packages or slicing the occasional vegetable, anything with an ok heat treat will do. When I'm working outdoors slicing wood, vines, ropes etc and most things are covered in dirt, steel starts making a much bigger difference. Non particle steels' edges usually don't last me a full day doing that stuff, my higher HRC Spydercos do.
@@jusme8060 Yeah I think I've seen the one you're talking about. My experience has been more like The Home Slice's testing on what he calls "the death rope," a thick rope that was used on a ship and has a bunch of salt, grime, sand and even rocks in it. That test really shows the effect of both wear resistance and edge stability. M4 and Magnacut had some of the best results if I remember right.
THANK YOU!!A. I have the harpoon fixed blade in 10v and have been telling everyone for over a year it is junk. I'm almost 20 edges in and still won't hold a edge for more than 100ft
Those seem to be the softest ones I've seen tested.
I've got the bigger one in 10v and it tested at 62.6 hrc. I haven't done extensive testing on it, but just now I stropped it to 90g on a BESS scale and then sliced about 40' of pretty heavy cardboard. After cutting, it measured at 155g, which is a pretty good result, in my opinion. After that amount of cutting, a typical M390 at 60 hrc would measure from 185-225.
The blade has been sharpened at least four times, with the last being freehand at 15ish dps, done on Venev resin bonded stones.
So glad to see you back!! Still need to send you that M398 blade!
Whenever you get a chance, I keep forgetting to ask ypu about it.
@@Outpost_76 And I keep forgetting to send it, shame on me.
I have the original 10v mini sheepdog without the flipper tap and it is one of the better performance knives I own. I own several K390 spyderco's all the 15v bbb sprint runs and all the 4v and rex 45 spyderco drops. I even got the 4v sheepdog after loving the 10v so much. I have sharpened it 3 times but right from the first sharpen 15 \/ angle a side I did it was a hard performer. I just cut through a piece of .75" extruded acrylic with it the other day with no issue not even a scratch on the polished edge.
Thanks for the info. Always good to learn about what’s going on from your tests.
You're welcome and thank you
I was always extremely skeptical about Kizer's 10V. It just seemed to good to be true .
I've yet to see one done well.
Good video G. I wonder if it’s even 10v? Thanks for all your testing and info for the data logs and thanks for sharing brother it’s greatly appreciated 👊🏼
Really want to see you do Spydercos Rex121
I may do one at some point. I'm not a huge Sage fan so if it makes it on something I like I'll get one.
Great info on 10v
Thank you
Excellent video.
Thank you very much!
I believe that my PM2s in 10V are at 64.5 HRC.
I wonder if Spyderco did the REC para3’s in cpm10v that high 🤔
Too bad about these. Definitely reach out to Kizer and let them know!
Kizer only did these as a marketing stunt.
@@tacticalcenter8658 Not sure what constitutes a "marketing stunt" but they've also been using 3V in more knives. I'd be curious to see how those do for the price.
@@chronovore3726their 3v is awful too. They offer different steels to try and sell knives based on a name and not what that steel can do cause it's always too low.
Could re tempering it help improve it at all? Yeah Kizer like to run the steel on the softer side. 3V on folders and EDC fixed blades at 58-60, when it really should be around 63 preferably. 4V I had varying results with and I believe a few ones are below 60, I had a Feist XL in 4V that performs pretty well and still I believe that's only 61. Cause I have 4V & V4E knives at 63 & 64 and they blow the Kizers out the water. Their Rex 45 I think they said was between 61-63HRC. They have so many great models and if they bumped up the HRC, it would be great.
This winter I may see about doing the heat treat all over on it. I'll be done testing it by then and if it doesn't work out it's not a big deal.
I didn't even think about getting Rex 45 from them. The softest Spyderco Rex45 I have is 65.4 and it's a lot like M4. My Manix in Rex45 is 67.4 rc and it's a big step above the softer PM2 I have. I can't imagine how Rex that low would be but if someone sends one I'll definitely test it.
You'd have to grind the edge back to about the thickness of a dime, then regrind it after heat treat.
I could do it for you if you really wanted. Cant guanantee it would look pretty, but I can guarantee the heat treat will be on point
@@Outpost_76 It's called the Mystic, I believe it's about $160 but can be as low as 130 on a sale.
Tempering doesn't raise the hardness up. And their rex45 was also low. It performs better than their other steels at that low hardness but still no where near normal hardness for rex45.
Kizer isn’t the best brand if you use your knives due to how soft most of their steel is. But if you just buy them for collecting and not using, they look nice.
Do you know the HRC range of the discontinued Spyderco K2?
I don't and it's been years since I had one to use and I don't remember much about how it performed.
Thanks gerald!! Seems like kizer completely failed on 10V. I had similar problems with their m390/20cv, so far only their 4V and 154cm has been working out well. Doesn't make sense why they would do a good job with 4V yet waste10V. Has anyone tested the Hrc on their 4V?
I did test one and it was 62.5 rc. I have a couple 154cm coming up to test.
Don't have any in 10V. Got a couple of Kizers but they are 154CM & N690.
LTK sent me 2 in 154cm and 1 in N690 that I'll be doing videos on.
@@Outpost_76 sounds good. I know they can vary even in the same batch but still, more information is better than less. Look forward to those & other future postings.
Iirc they are decent as long as the price reflects the budget performance of these steels
I predict the mini at HRC 57.5😊
Got a question for you. Does DLC. Coating a knife need to lower HRC or can tempers be adjusted to prevent it? Be nice to test Spyderco as they have same models with and without DLC. I understand that the DLC process requires a certain amount of heat and that messes with temper and thus HRC. Other coatings may require different heat levels.
Back when Kurt was still testing he did some dlc Spyderco. He tested them through the coating then removed spots of it and tested again. The Spyderco stuff all ended up being .1 to .2 rc difference between tests. On other brands some do matter. The first 10V mini Sheepdog I tested had the coating taken off and it was right at 60rc.
Have you seen the thread on spyderco's mule team forum?
A guy tested a kizer 10v vs a k294 mule and got results within 5%. It appeared to be a well done and documented test, but just doesnt match what I (EDIT: or you, apparently) have experienced.
Very few people have kizer 10v over 59rc. It's certainly possible there is a few out there. But it won't be more than a handful unless it's more recent and they changed the ht protocol and or aim hardness
I haven't seen that one. Until recently I haven't been following knife stuff much. I'm sure a few decent ones made it out since I've seen them as low as 57 rc there have to be some 62 rc ones out there.
Could it also be because the blade is too thin as well as heat treatment?
No its the ht
How you doing buddy? I just got a notification!
I've been good, my number is the same, send me a text anytime.
Wow. I’ve got a 10V Sheepdog on loan for testing now.🤔
I do recall telling you how bad 10v was.
Kizer just wasted good 10v if that's what it really is.
They waste a lot of good steel.
Also to this day no one else has tested any microtech m390mk above 60rc other than you.
@@tacticalcenter8658I sense a little friction here lol.
@@jimmycricket7946he knows very little about steel and heat treatment and keeps trying to make it look like he does.
My guess, not 10V... interested to see the results.
I am thinking about taking tge coating off and having Lee send it for a PMI scan.
@@Outpost_76 Good idea...
Ask luvthemknives to test it to see if real 10v
I am thinking about taking the coating off and having him send it for a PMI scan to see.
@@Outpost_76 that would be awesome.. looking forward to that video
It is real 10v
Kizer should stick with 4V
They had much better luck with it for sure.
Kizer should stick to doing things properly instead of marketing a steel name for sales and offering low heat treatment.
@@tacticalcenter8658 Ive actually had several Kizers. A 10V medium sheepdog like in this video, that would unlock if you spinewhacked it against your palm... fixed by bending the lockbar but still it was ridiculously easy to fail it.
Weird I would have figured that would have done alot better.
Why would you think that? They are well known for not doing very well with any steels until recently with 4v and 154cm only.
I am done being a steel snob, it may make a difference for someone cutting one material all day but in real life, I can't tell any difference.
What I've realized is it depends what I'm doing. Most of the different steels have their place IMO. When I'm just around the house opening packages or slicing the occasional vegetable, anything with an ok heat treat will do. When I'm working outdoors slicing wood, vines, ropes etc and most things are covered in dirt, steel starts making a much bigger difference. Non particle steels' edges usually don't last me a full day doing that stuff, my higher HRC Spydercos do.
@@joshstarkey8883 outdoors55 has some interesting videos about this subject.
Outdoors55 has some interesting videos on the subject that sum up what I've also experienced.
@@jusme8060 Yeah I think I've seen the one you're talking about. My experience has been more like The Home Slice's testing on what he calls "the death rope," a thick rope that was used on a ship and has a bunch of salt, grime, sand and even rocks in it. That test really shows the effect of both wear resistance and edge stability. M4 and Magnacut had some of the best results if I remember right.
I can see the difference. Sharpening a lot less often if I have a good heat treat on a good steel. It's worth it.
Nobody likes babypoo Kizer!