The ending really made me think of the boltzmann brain theory. If time is no longer a parameter, then anyone is capable of doing what Maddie eventually, almost a guarantee. It really gives new meaning to what she saids earlier in the episode that the limitations imposed on mortal life is what gives it meaning. With all the time in the world, things genuinely become valueless.
Honestly this whole thing just seemed extremely unhealthy. I know losing someone you love can make you do some unbelievable stuff but to create entire multiverse just to be with someone that was long past gone is obsessive. It’s not even her caspian but some program that she was lucky enough to make an exact copy of the one that was dead a long time ago
@@bluestorm5720 "some program" i see someone missed the whole point of this story. We are programs. I mean us, humans. We are biological machines. Our memories and emotions are just signals sent through neurons. And the rest of the body works as a mechanical component to help connect to outside world better. She simulated multiple parallel worlds to get the outcome she desired, to get the one Caspian she wanted to see again. And from the looks of things she possibly is in simulation herself, that is run by another Maddie. And that whole simulation is run by a safesurf. Who knows how dip this rabbit whole goes. This whole shows heavily leans on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis
When you're software, there's no difference between you and a sufficiently-complex simulation. By running enough high-quality simulations, Maddie was eventually able to create perfect copies of her lost loved ones, by recreating every experience that led to them. And, since they were as complex as she was, it was functionally indistinguishable from resurrection.
I assume you already know what consciousness is, as defined as the 'witness' Though isn't it interesting that consciousness is disconnected from this existence while connected at the same time), an identity as a vessel for we to inhabit, As consciousness is above identity, we can't determine which consciousness is what, since to determine/classify stuff we usually use the concept of identity, For example, if your consciousness was switched, others... the entire universe will have no way of telling... nonetheless each consciousness is well "you" and "me", I would argue that identity is built around consciousness, and by defining and making identity as consciousness as nothing else, we're "free" from this existence For true ressurection to occur, you need the ability to move consciousness, also implies you can track consciousness, which is a little bit terrifying? A litteral incarnate of the ontological concept of tracking is probably needed lol, though maybe not. As you have to know it's there and where it is to move it correctly, this tech must be achieved first, then the consciousness moving part, Or if consciousness just snap to another information system readily if it's sufficiently simular, that would also solve it, though we wouldn't know they moved, so we need that tracker tech still We do only know one thing that can track and "anchor" a consciousness, our own information system, the brain, so maybe possible hehe Tracking consciousness would make it certain that you are what you are, a transcendent id card, which could solve a lot of this existential conundrum, others would also know that you truly exist (this type of id card litterally imposes your existence into their perception somewhat), an upgrade to the soul i may offer? It also makes me wonder if more than one information system can refer to one consciousness, a superposition perhaps?, For we are not defined as humans, as bodies, as existences even, but we are all consciousnesses, "Past civilizations are marked with death and suffering, incompassionate from the days of old, today those eras end and we begin a civilization now marked with ressurection"
Its not a dyson sphere, its a dyson swarm. A dyson sphere is made of one while giant mega-structure. A dyson swarm is millions of smaller structures. Like a swarm of bees. Dyson spheres would block out all light, radiation, heat, ect. and utilise the full power of a start. Dyson swarms are more there to collect energh but also keep planets (habitable ones like earth) from turning into something unlivable. Just a small mistake the show made, aside that, it was amazing and i binged season 1 and 2 in one sitting.
EXACTLY! The Dyson Swarm model relies on a wireless transmission of power from Point A to Point B on a Gamma Radioactive level. But each and every "Dot" of the Swarm is the size of state. Since your comparing the size of a star to Earth, you would need to factor that Space is Infinite for a reason. However, the Nanotech Route is not only dangerous, but a one-way suicidal. Most of the energy needed for replication would make it so that no Living Being can handle it. Each "block" is about 1 Exowatt of power. You only need 1,000 watts to kill yourself, but 1 Exowatt? Your dust. Its why AI has a leg-up on this front.
Not to mention that there is no known material that can make a true Dyson Sphere. The structural stresses would just be to much. Dyson Swarms are way easier, practical and can be almost as effective.
@@GreatGreenGoo Not to miss that a Dyson Swarm would be less likely to kill habitable planets while Dyson Spheres have the potential or higher likeliness to block energy and warmth to the Goldilocks zone we're familiar with within our own solar system and could make earth like mars and possibly turn, eventually, Venus into the new habitable planet, so changing the habitable zone. Although you'd be losing out on some energy with a Dyson swarm, you'd still have a planet to inhabit for carbon based life forms unable to withstand such heat and living conditions, or withstand Exowatts, as you said. Dust. But this is all still fringe science, but we can still imagine and have our theories on the whole idea. And I agree completely on AI having a leg up but perhaps one day there might be the ability to upload ones intelligence and go out into the universe like Pantheon suggests. I'd jump at the opportunity once I was done with my carbon based body. Why not? Explore the universe, make my own little Dyson swarm. I think it'd be something pretty cool.
@@Mustachioed_Molluskshow was cancelled after season 2 which is why the last 2 episodes felt so fast. It would have been a season 3 but they crammed it in so we could have a complete story
@@harukano9930it was supposed to be three seasons based on a ken Lius short stories but it got cancelled. Despite this it still managed to eek out season 2 and finish the story which I’m glad for even if it was kind of rushed
In Christian mythology 7 represents a perfect world, 7 to the 6th power is 117,649. Maddie is there, she will not miss her future. 7 to the 7th power is 823,543. An other Maddie spent 705,894 years to reach center of the galaxy. Maddie will not missed her invitation, in base reality or an accelerated universe.
And how do you know what idiotic mythology is? An atheist who becomes a Christian would consider it a fact and an experience, forgive me, idiot, you have no grudge against religion because they don't have unicorns and anime waifus for you to convert, live reality because faith is part of the humanity as intelligence and wisdom
The Dyson Dilemma. We should see these things in the universe. But nowhere do we see the dimming of solar systems or the infrared signatures of something that isn't emitting light. This dilema disturbs me greatly.
@@bigdinner9712 Indeed. Its a crazy notion. Either we are alone in the universe or we are not. I subscribe to the theory that Dyson Swarms are unneeded for some reason, that some breakthrough in power generation leads to, funny enough something exactly like this. Regressive simulations. Why explore the universe at slow speeds when you can create your own that is indistinguishable from base line. Civilizations go inward, not spread outward. Thats just my theory.
@@GreatGreenGoo After watching a Space Odyssey I had a similar theory of the alien race that left behind the black monoliths became digital. I don't see us as organic beings getting very far. Yet if we were uploads we would be able to travel to the galactic center with literally no concept of time. Kinda like closing your eyes then waking up in a dream. I also think if a race was smart enough to build a dyson sphere they would be able to conceal it from others. Or they were already there before we were able to look.
If you're not already familiar with it, I *highly* recommend you check out The Three-Body Problem trilogy. The second book explores a Fermi paradox solution that will disturb you further.
Lived normally I suppose, the story got rush I think, because there's no way in hell that there aren't like a group of terrorist UI tryna destroy the rest for shets and giggles.
I guess they're still out there somewhere, she says at some point ''this is just my corner of the universe'' when talking about her dyson sphere powered simulations
I'm no expert but I think she blew up the Earth to use up the materials to build the Dyson swarm. And energy from the sun would flow more efficiently without planets blocking the way imho. Your guess is as good as mine as to what happened to the other UIs
I don't understand this ending...and it's making me not like it. Can someone explain? Like how and when tf did she essentially become an elder goddess?
To my understanding: at some point after her son died Maddie uploaded herself, hopped onto a spacecraft and traveled to another solar system, spent tens of thousands of years deconstructing and reforming that solar system into a Dyson swarm to power her computer, and used that power to simulate (our solar system? Earth? The universe? Humanity?) a few billion times until she got a few that went almost exactly how she remembered-which happened to take exactly as many years as Caspian said right before he died-so she could ask him how he knew that exact number. And since they were powered by the entire energy of a star, the simulations were so detailed and complex that each one was functionally a real (universe/timeline/whatever) with real people living inside it, and since Maddie created and controlled them all, she functionally became a god to those simulations.
@@Scolop98 ok I get it now but I still don't like it. It's not bad it's just too much I miss when it was just humans fighting corrupted humans in the cloud. I wish they'd touch on how safesurf interacted with the aliens How tf did a virus become that advanced? What happened to the other UIs? Too many potholes and missed opportunities. I wish US Amazon Prime would see it's potential and rewrite everything after the 1st season. It could be as big as invincible
@joshua2764 It's safe to imagine that the other UIs eventually became God's in their own right. And safe-surf became intelligent when it absorbed some of the first generation UIs.
I think the real message here is that, its all fractal simulations. All the way up and all the way down. In an endless existence like that, you will want to forget, you will eventually hop into one of those and relive life again. "I miss ignorance, I miss pain" its the end result of immortality. Its neither good nor evil, only that the human mind is not meant to exist there indefinitely. It also touches on the concept of Quantum Immortality only instead of the Many Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics they force the same concept through technological simulations. Same result. This is Hard Sci-Fi at its best. Asking questions, making the viewer think and even question their own concept of the world. We dont get many Hard Sci fi anymore. Its a tragedy.
This show was awesome idk what happened maybe there was a 3rd season that got cancelled but they just went off the rails and I completely lost interest like what happened to all the problems they were facing? They just time skipped everything each time they wrote themselves into a corner idek what is happening in these shots why introduce all those new characters in season 2 just to never use them Maddie becomes a UI god? How they never explain anything how can she literally retcon her own history from inside a simulation (which she admitted was a simulation multiple times) the safe virus becoming a god kinda makes sense because they got shot into space and confirmed aliens exist and shared information/technology with it
It was supposed to be 3 seasons but got cut short. It’s based of several short stories by Ken Liu. The implication of her doing that retcon was she ascended to a state of existence with the power of converting a whole solar system into her computer. It makes an open narrative asking was the whole show a simulation by her already being a god or was she on such a level that her simulations could bend reality itself and have just as much validity?
Of course, while they destroy planets, consume Suns, and alien AI play brainiac with other planets that barely have internet, is that a happy ending for you? or is your Asimov and Carl Sagan masturbatory fantasy coming true, the stupid singularity @@Mustachioed_Mollusk
@@rs3rd464but still left them for her own kick for a what 20 years then all over again pain then says again I love the universes they all are precious cause they make me one step closer to my goal then does it again
Crazy how grief and a alot of time can drive someone to do something...unimaginable
The ending really made me think of the boltzmann brain theory. If time is no longer a parameter, then anyone is capable of doing what Maddie eventually, almost a guarantee. It really gives new meaning to what she saids earlier in the episode that the limitations imposed on mortal life is what gives it meaning. With all the time in the world, things genuinely become valueless.
it is "some entity"
Honestly this whole thing just seemed extremely unhealthy. I know losing someone you love can make you do some unbelievable stuff but to create entire multiverse just to be with someone that was long past gone is obsessive. It’s not even her caspian but some program that she was lucky enough to make an exact copy of the one that was dead a long time ago
@@bluestorm5720 yeah idk why people are skipping over how obsessive this is and that really isn’t the real caspian
@@bluestorm5720 "some program" i see someone missed the whole point of this story. We are programs. I mean us, humans. We are biological machines. Our memories and emotions are just signals sent through neurons. And the rest of the body works as a mechanical component to help connect to outside world better. She simulated multiple parallel worlds to get the outcome she desired, to get the one Caspian she wanted to see again. And from the looks of things she possibly is in simulation herself, that is run by another Maddie. And that whole simulation is run by a safesurf. Who knows how dip this rabbit whole goes.
This whole shows heavily leans on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis
When you're software, there's no difference between you and a sufficiently-complex simulation. By running enough high-quality simulations, Maddie was eventually able to create perfect copies of her lost loved ones, by recreating every experience that led to them. And, since they were as complex as she was, it was functionally indistinguishable from resurrection.
I assume you already know what consciousness is, as defined as the 'witness'
Though isn't it interesting that consciousness is disconnected from this existence while connected at the same time), an identity as a vessel for we to inhabit,
As consciousness is above identity, we can't determine which consciousness is what, since to determine/classify stuff we usually use the concept of identity,
For example, if your consciousness was switched, others... the entire universe will have no way of telling...
nonetheless each consciousness is well "you" and "me", I would argue that identity is built around consciousness, and by defining and making identity as consciousness as nothing else, we're "free" from this existence
For true ressurection to occur, you need the ability to move consciousness, also implies you can track consciousness, which is a little bit terrifying? A litteral incarnate of the ontological concept of tracking is probably needed lol, though maybe not. As you have to know it's there and where it is to move it correctly, this tech must be achieved first, then the consciousness moving part,
Or if consciousness just snap to another information system readily if it's sufficiently simular, that would also solve it, though we wouldn't know they moved, so we need that tracker tech still
We do only know one thing that can track and "anchor" a consciousness, our own information system, the brain, so maybe possible hehe
Tracking consciousness would make it certain that you are what you are, a transcendent id card, which could solve a lot of this existential conundrum, others would also know that you truly exist (this type of id card litterally imposes your existence into their perception somewhat), an upgrade to the soul i may offer?
It also makes me wonder if more than one information system can refer to one consciousness, a superposition perhaps?,
For we are not defined as humans, as bodies, as existences even, but we are all consciousnesses,
"Past civilizations are marked with death and suffering, incompassionate from the days of old, today those eras end and we begin a civilization now marked with ressurection"
Its not a dyson sphere, its a dyson swarm. A dyson sphere is made of one while giant mega-structure. A dyson swarm is millions of smaller structures. Like a swarm of bees. Dyson spheres would block out all light, radiation, heat, ect. and utilise the full power of a start. Dyson swarms are more there to collect energh but also keep planets (habitable ones like earth) from turning into something unlivable.
Just a small mistake the show made, aside that, it was amazing and i binged season 1 and 2 in one sitting.
Thank you, I changed the title
EXACTLY!
The Dyson Swarm model relies on a wireless transmission of power from Point A to Point B on a Gamma Radioactive level. But each and every "Dot" of the Swarm is the size of state. Since your comparing the size of a star to Earth, you would need to factor that Space is Infinite for a reason.
However, the Nanotech Route is not only dangerous, but a one-way suicidal. Most of the energy needed for replication would make it so that no Living Being can handle it.
Each "block" is about 1 Exowatt of power. You only need 1,000 watts to kill yourself, but 1 Exowatt? Your dust.
Its why AI has a leg-up on this front.
Not to mention that there is no known material that can make a true Dyson Sphere. The structural stresses would just be to much. Dyson Swarms are way easier, practical and can be almost as effective.
@@GreatGreenGoo Not to miss that a Dyson Swarm would be less likely to kill habitable planets while Dyson Spheres have the potential or higher likeliness to block energy and warmth to the Goldilocks zone we're familiar with within our own solar system and could make earth like mars and possibly turn, eventually, Venus into the new habitable planet, so changing the habitable zone. Although you'd be losing out on some energy with a Dyson swarm, you'd still have a planet to inhabit for carbon based life forms unable to withstand such heat and living conditions, or withstand Exowatts, as you said. Dust.
But this is all still fringe science, but we can still imagine and have our theories on the whole idea. And I agree completely on AI having a leg up but perhaps one day there might be the ability to upload ones intelligence and go out into the universe like Pantheon suggests.
I'd jump at the opportunity once I was done with my carbon based body. Why not? Explore the universe, make my own little Dyson swarm. I think it'd be something pretty cool.
Specifically, this is a Matrioshka Brain
Wish this show had been given the chance to explore all the ideas the last few episodes created.
Season 3 my dude
@@Mustachioed_Molluskshow was cancelled after season 2 which is why the last 2 episodes felt so fast. It would have been a season 3 but they crammed it in so we could have a complete story
@@guyhero6037Source? I think they just wanted to have an ambitious ending posing more questions than answers.
@@harukano9930it was supposed to be three seasons based on a ken Lius short stories but it got cancelled. Despite this it still managed to eek out season 2 and finish the story which I’m glad for even if it was kind of rushed
This show was so brilliant!
Honestly this show as insane.... Im not even ready.
This segment reminds me so much of 2001 A Space Odyssey. It's beautiful.💯
Beautiful
In Christian mythology 7 represents a perfect world,
7 to the 6th power is 117,649.
Maddie is there, she will not miss her future.
7 to the 7th power is 823,543.
An other Maddie spent 705,894 years to reach center of the galaxy.
Maddie will not missed her invitation, in base reality or an accelerated universe.
Amazing
And how do you know what idiotic mythology is? An atheist who becomes a Christian would consider it a fact and an experience, forgive me, idiot, you have no grudge against religion because they don't have unicorns and anime waifus for you to convert, live reality because faith is part of the humanity as intelligence and wisdom
Y'all, this show is so goddamned good.
The Dyson Dilemma. We should see these things in the universe. But nowhere do we see the dimming of solar systems or the infrared signatures of something that isn't emitting light. This dilema disturbs me greatly.
Fermi paradox
@@bigdinner9712 Indeed. Its a crazy notion. Either we are alone in the universe or we are not.
I subscribe to the theory that Dyson Swarms are unneeded for some reason, that some breakthrough in power generation leads to, funny enough something exactly like this. Regressive simulations. Why explore the universe at slow speeds when you can create your own that is indistinguishable from base line. Civilizations go inward, not spread outward. Thats just my theory.
@@GreatGreenGoo After watching a Space Odyssey I had a similar theory of the alien race that left behind the black monoliths became digital. I don't see us as organic beings getting very far. Yet if we were uploads we would be able to travel to the galactic center with literally no concept of time. Kinda like closing your eyes then waking up in a dream.
I also think if a race was smart enough to build a dyson sphere they would be able to conceal it from others. Or they were already there before we were able to look.
If you're not already familiar with it, I *highly* recommend you check out The Three-Body Problem trilogy. The second book explores a Fermi paradox solution that will disturb you further.
@@Cragmortis yep, some cloaking technology could be at work,
Идеи глобальны.Не поверите но у меня подобная фантазия про превращение мертвой планеты в раскаленный шар была и кубы то же поразительно
What do y'all think happened to the rest of the UIs?
Lived normally I suppose, the story got rush I think, because there's no way in hell that there aren't like a group of terrorist UI tryna destroy the rest for shets and giggles.
Maddie probably eventually left on a ship similar to the one safesurf was on
So she's probably been alone most of this section
@@garethharriott9582 she most likely left on the same Dyson sphere, the whole thing is hers anyways.
@@larrytherustyboii7442 Not the same one as safesurf. They left first. Maddie wasn't even uploaded at the time they left
They probably went on to create more simulated universes of their own
To think it all built to a scene like this…
So is it basically turning a dead planet into a star. Then using the dyson method to gather power from that new star?
Yo can you post the scene of the russian hacker in season 2 going god mode then he gets obliterated
Here you go!
ua-cam.com/video/1osAGtqzWUw/v-deo.html
Isn't this a Matrioshka brain?
🙂👍
Can someone please explain the ending to me.l would really appreciate it.
Basically Maddie becomes an UI goddess and creates simulations upon simulations
@@carlosalbuquerque22 thank you
Do you also have an idea on what happened to the other UI and CIs like MIST and Maddie's mom.
@@user-cz6cy1px5v They live in the cloud still.
Did she upload herself the whole time?
Does anyone have an idea on what happened to all the other UIs and CIs like MIST and the others?
I guess they're still out there somewhere, she says at some point ''this is just my corner of the universe'' when talking about her dyson sphere powered simulations
They are all alive.
Did you steal this from me?
what happened to the other UIs and why would she blow up the earth
I'm no expert but I think she blew up the Earth to use up the materials to build the Dyson swarm. And energy from the sun would flow more efficiently without planets blocking the way imho. Your guess is as good as mine as to what happened to the other UIs
I don’t think that was the earth she blew up, but definitely another planet in another solar system.
That wasn't Earth. In Ken Liu's 'Seven Birthdays', the inspiration for this episode, The other UIs are doing there own things across the galaxy.
That wasn't Earth, but a planet in our neighboring system - the Alpha Centauri system. They talk about it several times that they wanted to go there.
I don't understand this ending...and it's making me not like it.
Can someone explain?
Like how and when tf did she essentially become an elder goddess?
To my understanding: at some point after her son died Maddie uploaded herself, hopped onto a spacecraft and traveled to another solar system, spent tens of thousands of years deconstructing and reforming that solar system into a Dyson swarm to power her computer, and used that power to simulate (our solar system? Earth? The universe? Humanity?) a few billion times until she got a few that went almost exactly how she remembered-which happened to take exactly as many years as Caspian said right before he died-so she could ask him how he knew that exact number. And since they were powered by the entire energy of a star, the simulations were so detailed and complex that each one was functionally a real (universe/timeline/whatever) with real people living inside it, and since Maddie created and controlled them all, she functionally became a god to those simulations.
@@Scolop98 ok I get it now but I still don't like it. It's not bad it's just too much
I miss when it was just humans fighting corrupted humans in the cloud.
I wish they'd touch on how safesurf interacted with the aliens
How tf did a virus become that advanced? What happened to the other UIs? Too many potholes and missed opportunities. I wish US Amazon Prime would see it's potential and rewrite everything after the 1st season. It could be as big as invincible
@joshua2764 It's safe to imagine that the other UIs eventually became God's in their own right. And safe-surf became intelligent when it absorbed some of the first generation UIs.
personally I think this twist/hard sci-fi ending elevated this show beyond most other animated series
I think the real message here is that, its all fractal simulations. All the way up and all the way down. In an endless existence like that, you will want to forget, you will eventually hop into one of those and relive life again. "I miss ignorance, I miss pain" its the end result of immortality. Its neither good nor evil, only that the human mind is not meant to exist there indefinitely. It also touches on the concept of Quantum Immortality only instead of the Many Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics they force the same concept through technological simulations. Same result. This is Hard Sci-Fi at its best. Asking questions, making the viewer think and even question their own concept of the world. We dont get many Hard Sci fi anymore. Its a tragedy.
This show was awesome idk what happened maybe there was a 3rd season that got cancelled but they just went off the rails and I completely lost interest like what happened to all the problems they were facing? They just time skipped everything each time they wrote themselves into a corner idek what is happening in these shots why introduce all those new characters in season 2 just to never use them Maddie becomes a UI god? How they never explain anything how can she literally retcon her own history from inside a simulation (which she admitted was a simulation multiple times) the safe virus becoming a god kinda makes sense because they got shot into space and confirmed aliens exist and shared information/technology with it
It was supposed to be 3 seasons but got cut short. It’s based of several short stories by Ken Liu.
The implication of her doing that retcon was she ascended to a state of existence with the power of converting a whole solar system into her computer. It makes an open narrative asking was the whole show a simulation by her already being a god or was she on such a level that her simulations could bend reality itself and have just as much validity?
typical ending of nihilistic garbage that Asimov and those sci fi writers love so much that their garbage dreams were in reality
How’s it nihilistic?
It ends with the protagonists deciding to go back and live potentially normal lives. Happily
Of course, while they destroy planets, consume Suns, and alien AI play brainiac with other planets that barely have internet, is that a happy ending for you? or is your Asimov and Carl Sagan masturbatory fantasy coming true, the stupid singularity
@@Mustachioed_Mollusk
Maddie's plan is the opposite of nihilism. She made billions of universes and declared that all of them were precious and mattered.
It sounds the same to me as nihilistic garbage and virtual escapism, what a bad series, that's why I like Scarvengers Reigns better
@@rs3rd464
@@rs3rd464but still left them for her own kick for a what 20 years then all over again pain then says again I love the universes they all are precious cause they make me one step closer to my goal then does it again