What if Atatürk Never Existed?

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  • Опубліковано 26 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 186

  • @benetgamingchanel4055
    @benetgamingchanel4055 2 місяці тому +33

    I want to ask the Turkish viewers(if there are any) about your opinions on Mustafa kemal's secularisation and modernization reforms that he implemented in Turkey. Where the reforms overall good for Turkey or was it bad?

    • @wimblewomble4751
      @wimblewomble4751 2 місяці тому +39

      I think overall it was very good for turkey, it laid a strong base for the future of the nation and it is a shame that erdogan is undoing it

    • @firattekeli6145
      @firattekeli6145 2 місяці тому +3

      Name me one economic or technological Archivment during Mustafa Kemals rule ?

    • @ErenAlpErtem
      @ErenAlpErtem 2 місяці тому +1

      Baf

    • @spacehunters1087
      @spacehunters1087 2 місяці тому

      @@firattekeli6145 Well if you really want to see that moves than you can check the google but I can say some of them in here. First of all, He builded total of 46 big factory that can hold almost 100.000 workers in that. Apart from that, On his time We was Produce twice on Coal 6x on Copper total of 4x on almost all metal production, 50x on sugar ,18x on total of food like vegetabels and fruits, 500x on cotton, silk and linen 20x and wool 4x. He builded factorys that could produce their own ammunations, Aircraft, ships and guns, Even he tried to produce tanks but he couldnt do that because of his life. He make people richer. Turkish people couldnt even ate bread easily but after 8-10 years of Independence war people could buy things they want and could buy foods easily like sugar to milk, pastas to meat. He paid %80 the 100 years debt of Ottoman Empire. And the country growth rate was %8 between 1923-1933 and %5 between 1933-1942. He did correct movements on Great Depression and Turkey almost never took a damage from that. between 1924-1939 the Industry Grow rate total of %30 , Agriculture %67 and service was %54. He make people more free and gave rights to man and woman. ın his time Turkey could produce Aircraft better than most of the Europe. In his time we could buy back All the things we was sold to outside in Ottoman empire. He build the first bank of the Turkey and with that farmers and Industry could grow really fast. End of in his life the Turkey was growth his gdp 5x and build acountry that could produce everything they need with stable economy and educated people. Thats the things he did. If you want to learn thing like that read the Sources that are trustable and check them all.

    • @NeoNima
      @NeoNima 2 місяці тому +17

      reforms were what turkey needed. after the long rule of ottomans there were only uncivilised anatolia left and he civilised it and made turkey a modern country. what he did for turkey can not be forgiven we love Ataturk and what he did for us.

  • @benetgamingchanel4055
    @benetgamingchanel4055 2 місяці тому +59

    I can't believe you included 'Built different' as one of the reasons why Atatürk was responsible for the resistance victory.

  • @lehnaru9132
    @lehnaru9132 Місяць тому +3

    A small detail you missed is that Greece was granted Northern Epirus after WW1 and only lost it because it lost favour with the Entente after King Constantine was restored and by losing the war with Turkey. I think that such a heavily defeated and humiliated Turkey would have absolutely fallen to totalitarianism in the interwar period and joined the Axis in WW2 to regain Anatolian territory lost to Greece and Soviet Armenia along with some agreement with Fascist Italy to regain the southern Anatolian coastline, resulting in the loss of Constantinople and the eastern coastline of the Sea of Marmara to the Greeks, who wouldn't have gained the relatively indefensible southern Anatolian coastline themselves

  • @justinpachi3707
    @justinpachi3707 2 місяці тому +25

    Honestly even with Attaturk the war could have ended in a stalemate as the Greeks had a over a year of time before the Turkish counteroffensive got into the full swing booting them out from the Smyrna occupation zone.
    Greece could have easily dug in and fortified what they had, but cartoonish incompetence on the part of the Anastasios Papoulas (someone who made Cadorna look competent) led to them twiddling their thumbs as the Turkish army advanced.
    Papoulas was so bad he had no real military education and didn't even attend a military academy. He only got his command due to the purge of pro-venezelist officers that occurred upon King Constantine's return. Papoulas had connections to prominent anti-Venezelists and up until the war's end was a staunch royalist.
    Honestly even without Attaturk there might have been other figures who could have risen to the challenge of leading the Turkish defense.
    As for Italy, I doubt they'd get anything as by the time of the Greco Turkish War they had already pulled out of the war and were supporting the Turks against the Greeks.
    You're best bet for something akin to a "Greater Greece" would probably be avoiding King George I's assassination. That or not having his younger grandson Alexander dying of an infected monkey bite (though who knows how long he'd live given his reckless lifestyle). If you avoid the national schism between King Constantine and Venezelos, you could have have had Greece join in early on the Entente's side and they would have secured East Thrace and would have had foreign support in Asia Minor.

    • @benetgamingchanel4055
      @benetgamingchanel4055 2 місяці тому +1

      Thanks for sharing this obscure historical information that is never mentioned in these types of alternate history videos.

    • @00martoneniris86
      @00martoneniris86 2 місяці тому

      Alexander was Constantine 1 son not George the first

    • @justinpachi3707
      @justinpachi3707 2 місяці тому

      @@00martoneniris86 Thanks for catching that. I meant to say grandson.

  • @blueking7425
    @blueking7425 2 місяці тому +3

    Love the work as always. ❤

  • @Ali-bu6lo
    @Ali-bu6lo 2 місяці тому +6

    1) The reforms of Reza Shah in Iran were essentially toned down versions of those done by Ataturk and the reforms under his son, Mohammadreza Shah were less harsh versions of those implemented by Reza Shah. So without Ataturk the reforms in Iran would be more toned down as well. The 1979 revolution and the Islamic republic were the results of many things but both the backlash to these reforms and the Shah absolutely alienating everyone played a role. With less radical reforms, at least some portions of his base won't abandon him, leading to an Iran which probably avoids the revolution and transitions back to a real constitutional monarchy once the Shah dies of cancer.
    2) With an Armenia which is a lot bigger and stronger, the Karabakh war would be far more decisive as Armenia would just annex and settle Karabakh after the war. During the war, an Armenian march on Baku and forcing the Azeri government to surrender is not out of question, at that point Iran would probably intervene to mediate a peace deal and take over the rump Azerbaijan as an Iranian puppet.
    3) I think some of Ataturk reforms would still happen. The Ottoman empire had already modernized to some extant and thus they have the potential to implement the reforms that make most sense such as the adoption of surnames.
    4) I think in this scenario, a possible alternative to Mussolini could be less insane but still autocratic and right-wing regime. Something like the Portuguese Estado Novo, was there any right-wing movement in Italy at the time beside Fascists?

    • @HistorysInfluence
      @HistorysInfluence  2 місяці тому +1

      Great information here

    • @bakthihapuarachchi3447
      @bakthihapuarachchi3447 2 місяці тому +2

      Another interesting point is that the founder of Pakistan based his country on Turkey and wanted it to be a similar, secular republic. This failed, but Pakistan would still be quite different without the country that inspired it's creator not existing. For example, the Pakistani flag with it's Turkish style star and crescent, would be different

    • @Ali-bu6lo
      @Ali-bu6lo 2 місяці тому

      @@bakthihapuarachchi3447 The rise of someone like General Zia who turned Pakistan towards Sharia law probably happen earlier in that case.
      I'm not sure about the flag, the current Turkish flag has been in use since the Ottoman times.

    • @mahaarshad3820
      @mahaarshad3820 2 місяці тому

      ​@@bakthihapuarachchi3447there could be a good chance of the founder of Pakistan, qaid e azzam to probably base his reforms off Iran in this timeline , and or lead to even closer ties to iran

    • @Hasanaljadid
      @Hasanaljadid 2 місяці тому +1

      Reza Shah isn’t comparable with Ataturk

  • @micahistory
    @micahistory 2 місяці тому +1

    Truly fascinating alternate history. Really shows you just how much one man can change history. Quite incredible

  • @korkukokusu8311
    @korkukokusu8311 2 місяці тому

    cool vid . loved every part of it , thanks for making it.

  • @chrislusk3497
    @chrislusk3497 23 дні тому

    Some fact checking needed.
    -1299 to 1923 isn't "700 years of dominance", and the Ottomans didn't become the strongest power in the region until the reign of Murad I (1362-1389).
    - Most Ottoman loss of territory during the 19th century wasn't to "encroaching European powers", but to subject peoples that rebelled against the empire.
    - The British didn't withdraw their support for the Greeks because the Greek campaign was failing, but because the Greeks put a pro-German king on the throne.

  • @duplicafly98
    @duplicafly98 2 місяці тому +6

    I can see Mussolini still taking power in this timeline, but why would he still side with the axis? Surely the relation between France/UK and Italy would be waaay better with Italy gaining those turkish lands

    • @HistorysInfluence
      @HistorysInfluence  2 місяці тому +3

      good point, although italy's hunger for moreeeee would be satiated by a certain Austrian painter

    • @duplicafly98
      @duplicafly98 2 місяці тому +1

      @@HistorysInfluence Would it tho? both of them were pretty at odds on what to do with Austria + with closer ties to the West I don't think it's unreasonable to argue they might have been neutral at the very least

    • @bakthihapuarachchi3447
      @bakthihapuarachchi3447 2 місяці тому +2

      In our timeline, the Italian invasion of Ethiopia, which was condemned by Britain and France was what led to the split between those countries and Italy siding with the Axis, which would still happen in this timeline

  • @emilianohermosilla3996
    @emilianohermosilla3996 16 днів тому

    I gotta say that Ataturk is THE Turkish leader that made me accept Turkey as a modernized state (after learning history ofc), for he was quite the great leader with a great vision for his nation. After the Armenian genoc*de, damage that they caused the Balkans and Middle East through their backwards system (Muslim and Christian, as well as ethnic). It was warranted that their fall would’ve been seen, and tbh, it amazes me how much their were kept in life support, even in our timeline, probably around one hundred years more than they realistically should have

  • @danielsantiagourtado3430
    @danielsantiagourtado3430 2 місяці тому +1

    Thanks For this! Love your content ❤❤❤❤

  • @viperzed7053
    @viperzed7053 2 місяці тому +4

    So the whole entire country of turkey could have been in a way worse situation if one man never existed 🤔

    • @firattekeli6145
      @firattekeli6145 2 місяці тому

      Only a fool thinks History depends on decisions of few men

    • @samiiiyusufff
      @samiiiyusufff 2 місяці тому +4

      ​@@firattekeli6145Well, the borders were already drawn and the Ottomans already accepted defeat. Ataturk certainly saved the nation. I could safely say that Turkey wouldn't have existed without Ataturk.

  • @zhcultivator
    @zhcultivator 2 місяці тому +3

    Awesome video, btw, what software do you use for your videos??.

    • @HistorysInfluence
      @HistorysInfluence  2 місяці тому +2

      the adobe creative cloud suite mostly. adobe illustrator for maps and thumbnails, photoshop for slides, premier pro for video editing, adobe audition for narration.

    • @zhcultivator
      @zhcultivator 2 місяці тому +1

      @@HistorysInfluence thank you sire.

  • @FilmCritictheone
    @FilmCritictheone 2 місяці тому +3

    I don't see Greece taking all of Italian Anatolia. With Greece still being occupied in WW2 they'd still be in a weaked position that would discourage the acquisition of more territory to administer. Combine that with American ideas of self determination, and the Turks already living in Italian Anatolia preferring to keep there land and live under a Turkic government. I can see some minor Anatolia expansion for Greece alongside all of Rhodes and Cyprus but not much else.

  • @k.umquat8604
    @k.umquat8604 2 місяці тому +5

    Even without Atatürk we would have fended off the invaders at some point, because wars are won not just with one man's resolve,but the strength of an entire nation. But without his vision, Turkey would be in shackles for many more years.Side notes:
    -the picture at 3:34 shows Mustafa Kemal in Tripolitania during the Italo-Ottoman war (1913), not in Gallipoli (1915)
    - 5:45 The "Kurdistan" region would be the subject of a plebiscite which would vote on the creation of a new Kurdish state. In addition, the various Entente occupation zones and the Straits International zone are not mentioned in this map.

    • @VirgilJJacks
      @VirgilJJacks 2 місяці тому +3

      But, and this is a very personal opinion, It was him who did start the "Kurdistan Issue", and now we see the negatives consequences. Turks - Kurds, fingers of the same hand !!!

  • @highgrounder5238
    @highgrounder5238 2 місяці тому +9

    I feel like Greeks might turn fascist and join the axis as well to reclaim Constantinople, since they'd be in the same position as Italy was after the war.
    I could see them invading Turkey in 41 with German and Italian assistance (Hitler admired Greece and it would fit Musslini's roman larp). From there they could threaten the Baku oil fields, but i doubt they'd get them, though i would expect the Soviets to do slightly worse, maybe losing Leningrad.
    I suspect Greece would be invaded by the Allies rather than the soviets, who also couldn't supply large armies across the Caucasus. Whether Greece keeps Constantinople depends on with whom the Turks side during the invasion - the Soviets or the Allies. The latter might seem an obvious choice, but in 41 the Allies were overstretched while the Soviets were right there. Even if the Sultan objected, the military could force his hand. If they side with Soviets, Greeks might keep the city, but not if they join the Allies, though i wouldn't expect them to leave the occupied Turkish lands willingly and there could be border clashes into the late 40s.

    • @n00b5lay3r
      @n00b5lay3r 2 місяці тому

      So Italy and Greece would, in this timeline, be Neo Western and Eastern Roman empires respectively.

  • @00martoneniris86
    @00martoneniris86 2 місяці тому +3

    What if Bulgaria captured Constantinople in the Balkan war

    • @CarlStein
      @CarlStein 2 місяці тому +1

      They would lose it in the second war

    • @zshivkonezshivkov380
      @zshivkonezshivkov380 2 місяці тому

      Bulgaria was threatened by the UK not to do it. Most likely if an occupation happened it would result in international sanctions by the Great Powers like Russia, the UK and France. Other than that Bulgaria would loose it during the Second Balkan War and nothing much else would change besides maybe Constantinople becoming a international free city or at least a demilitarised zone and with larger foreign influence in it.

    • @yazovgaming
      @yazovgaming 2 місяці тому

      ​@@CarlStein incorrect

    • @CarlStein
      @CarlStein 2 місяці тому +1

      @@yazovgaming they would

  • @FIRE-zt6vw
    @FIRE-zt6vw 2 місяці тому +1

    Unfortunately that's wrong. Attaturk didn't play as much of a role as turks claim they did. That would be the scenario of the venizelos hadn't lost the election of 1920. Or if the german king of greece listen to the greek generals instead of his own ideas.
    Attaturk just took advantage of something the greek generals wanted the german king will happen if he continue with his plans

  • @justinpachi3707
    @justinpachi3707 2 місяці тому

    11:56 The Ottomans abolishing the Title of Caliph is frankly absurd. They didn't want to do this in otl and it was met with protest within the Islamic World. It's about as reasonable as the Pope abolishing the office of the Holy See and referring to himself merely as the "Bishop of Rome."

  • @00martoneniris86
    @00martoneniris86 2 місяці тому +2

    What if Persia joined the central powers

  • @00martoneniris86
    @00martoneniris86 2 місяці тому +5

    What if an arab Assyrian Jewish and Kurdish state was created in the former ottoman Arabia

  • @coquimarinero7246
    @coquimarinero7246 2 місяці тому +6

    4:40 did Ataturk deny the Armenian genocide? I was not under that impression at all. Didn't he say it was shameful and that those responsible should be punished?

    • @armenian_cartographer_neo
      @armenian_cartographer_neo 2 місяці тому +6

      Ottoman empire in 1919 punished the organizers if Armenian Genocide , but Ataturk not only created the country , that opposed the government in Constantinople , but completed the genocide with starting a war against Armenia and Greece, enslaving armenians and destroying Armenia with Russia's help in 1920. Ataturk denied the genocide , bkamed everything on armenians and , as you can see , there are no armenians until today.

    • @firattekeli6145
      @firattekeli6145 2 місяці тому

      Can you explain how you create a country that already exist ?

    • @armenian_cartographer_neo
      @armenian_cartographer_neo 2 місяці тому

      @@firattekeli6145 there were 2 governments . Otyoman Empire and Ankara government.

    • @JustYourRandomTurk
      @JustYourRandomTurk 2 місяці тому

      @@armenian_cartographer_neoyes yes, can’t forget how atatürk also killed off the dinosaurs 😢😢😢
      poor armenia :( no armenians left in armenia because of evil turks 😢😢

    • @shinsenshogun900
      @shinsenshogun900 2 місяці тому +1

      @@armenian_cartographer_neo To simply put, Ataturk inherited and kept the mess his predecessors started, and simply swept that project up with horrifying competent results

  • @MausOfTheHouse
    @MausOfTheHouse 2 місяці тому +159

    The good ending

  • @DeanMonsieur
    @DeanMonsieur 2 місяці тому +3

    Amazing video 🫡

  • @randomguy6152
    @randomguy6152 2 місяці тому

    WW2 if all ideas for the victorious powers were realized other than USA and UK
    France gets to destroy Germany,
    Greek Megali idea is realized,
    Italy gets all its claims outside of Greek claims
    and more

    • @bossy1496
      @bossy1496 2 місяці тому

      Turkey would collapse due to the complete lack of any economic base, would be a very unstable country. and probably see communist funded elements, by the soviets, take power in Turkey.
      Italy would never go ultranationalist or join the axis as assuming all their territorial ambitions are achieved (including their claims on France being gained) they'd not have the feeling of a mutilated victory, and would know their losses would've paid off, although, mussolini, may still take power due to the shit economic situation, but be much less radical, and fascism being more a tame and nationalistic version of socialism, possibly even not being isolated even after their invasion of Ethiopia, as the UK would be desperate for any ally on the continent, as all the other major powers would've gone hard extremist, with Italy being seen as the least radical of them all, along with this, allying with the Balkan nations like Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania and Greece, Yugoslavia would be out of the question as Hungary and Bulgaria would've had territorial claims on them.
      France ironically may fall to Fascism or Communism, with them losing territory despite winning the war, with even if they take the Rhineland, their economic situation would be in the gutter and there'd probably be some sort of anti French rebels in the Rhineland, preventing any real benefit from these lands.
      Germany would obviously still go ultranationalist.
      UK would remain much the same
      Factions of this world
      Allies; UK + Commonwealth, Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary (US joining would depend if Japan still decides to invade the allies)
      Axis; Germany, Yugoslavia, possibly Japan if this change does affect them and they decide to go to and invade north rather than south
      Cominterm; Soviet Union, Turkey

  • @BoxingEnthusiasts
    @BoxingEnthusiasts 2 місяці тому +4

    He’s not even Turkish 🇹🇷 he’s Greek 🇬🇷

    • @MorrisJohn-vo2vn
      @MorrisJohn-vo2vn Місяць тому

      As are all Turks.

    • @BoxingEnthusiasts
      @BoxingEnthusiasts Місяць тому

      @@MorrisJohn-vo2vn yes historically the land that’s called Turkey 🇹🇷 today is Ancient Greek 🇬🇷 lands but when the Turks immigrated form Central Asia to the region the fought and took the land

  • @AvarageYoututbeUser
    @AvarageYoututbeUser 2 місяці тому +2

    I'm sure the comment section will be respectful and civil

  • @Mr.KaganbYaltrk
    @Mr.KaganbYaltrk 2 місяці тому +3

    He is great man God blessed him to us 🤘

  • @Ali-w5u3s
    @Ali-w5u3s 2 місяці тому +1

    I hope there would have been a better leader than atatuek to save Turkey. Its was more like going from one jail into another.

  • @benetgamingchanel4055
    @benetgamingchanel4055 2 місяці тому

    14:36 I am not able to see the pun.

    • @HistorysInfluence
      @HistorysInfluence  2 місяці тому

      head of state vs figurehead of state. hard to pick up on without me explaining to be fair

  • @firattekeli6145
    @firattekeli6145 2 місяці тому +1

    That’s a person cult if people believe on a mhytical savior that’s not how history works

    • @guycrew3973
      @guycrew3973 2 місяці тому

      Yes but great leader (that doesn’t mean morally good ) changing history isn’t new napoleon stalin hitler bismarck

    • @coolcool2117
      @coolcool2117 2 місяці тому

      ​@@guycrew3973Ataturk sabotaged Turkey from the get go. He wasn't even a great general. Only thing he did right was rallying the people.

  • @00martoneniris86
    @00martoneniris86 2 місяці тому +2

    What if George the first survived his Assassination

  • @TimurKhan-dn5vx
    @TimurKhan-dn5vx 2 місяці тому +1

    please next ataturk won project against these.

  • @hotchocolateconnoisseur
    @hotchocolateconnoisseur 2 місяці тому +1

    Bro should collab with us of z or videntis

  • @zaktheinquisitor5769
    @zaktheinquisitor5769 2 місяці тому +1

    Fuck yeah!

  • @Pap294-j4l
    @Pap294-j4l 2 місяці тому +2

    If Ataturk did not exist, genocides did not exist also.

    • @Han.209
      @Han.209 2 місяці тому +1

      Hangi soykırımdan bahsediyorsun?

    • @catatanarasi
      @catatanarasi Місяць тому

      And Turkey would never become secular country

  • @rafakrzentowski9549
    @rafakrzentowski9549 2 місяці тому +3

    Great Armenia and independent Kurdistan ❤ marvelous

  • @xavierlauzac5922
    @xavierlauzac5922 2 місяці тому

    What do you think happens to Cyprus in this timeline?
    Edit: nevermind.

  • @chrdiloet
    @chrdiloet 2 місяці тому +1

    He was half circassian half turkish

  • @OfficialUKGov
    @OfficialUKGov Місяць тому

    Life could be a dream, life could be a dream

  • @bnbgezgini
    @bnbgezgini 2 місяці тому +2

    I know it is the dream of many dreamers. But we were here for thousand years and will keep being here forever. 👍🇹🇷

    • @noodlearmss
      @noodlearmss 2 місяці тому +1

      After 3 gënocides milions of deaths second class citizens and taking the first born child of a Christian family and attacking an island witch had 100 k turk 14% of the island no wonder your the 5 moat hated country

    • @Aimos-apo-tin-Tauris
      @Aimos-apo-tin-Tauris 2 місяці тому +1

      Yeah, choke on it, you destroyers of Hellenism, just don't say, that we are similar, lived together and other hypocrite cliche phrases.If you think there will be no consequences for the Greek Genocide 1914-1922, you are greatly mistaken. Now it's your turn to pay for mistakes of ancestors.

  • @ibragaming03
    @ibragaming03 2 місяці тому +1

    Without Mustafa Kemal , Türkiye would be bigger better and less people would put Statues around . Everyone puts it if as he single handedly beat everyone . I don't Like him.
    Ottoman Empire was better.

    • @Han.209
      @Han.209 2 місяці тому +3

      Tarihi zerre bilmiyorsun

    • @RuzgarBaranhoi4vemcoynuyor
      @RuzgarBaranhoi4vemcoynuyor 2 місяці тому +3

      no ottoman empire was trash in 1910s.

    • @catatanarasi
      @catatanarasi Місяць тому

      ​@@RuzgarBaranhoi4vemcoynuyorlook turkey today, you can compared how it was back then under Islamic law rather than secular law like it was today

  • @oghuz_kaghan
    @oghuz_kaghan 2 місяці тому +1

    it wont be get conquerod it would be just ocupied and another great leader would come and get it back😂

  • @FardinArnob
    @FardinArnob Місяць тому

    Bad ending

  • @Batyrai
    @Batyrai 2 місяці тому

    If Ataturk didnt exist. We woud become British Or French…hmmn wait a minute .. 🤔