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The craziest part is that the planners thought the soviets would capitulate if the uk took some Polish cities when they didn’t capitulate with the Germans at the gate of Moscow and Leningrad
The Germans didn't have B-29s, let alone atomic weapons. I'm not sure why they'd bother blowing up Kummersdorf when they had the range to blow up St. Petersberg.
que the comments: "the ussr wouldve collapsed without americas help", as if the ussr didnt have 2.x the manpower of all the allies combined NOT including lend lease equipment
The difference was in objectives. Russians were in high spirit defending homeland, and then defeating the enemy who has done so many attrocities on their territory. Allies could have reached Polish-Soviet border and then establish defence. With destroyed economy, struggling industry, without Lend-Lease and ideological motivation for soviets it would be hard time.
If Stalingrad wasn't Hitler's personal 'I want that city!' and instead the rest of the army would seize Georgia and all of the key oil fields nearby, status quo would be enough for Soviets to run out of pretty much everything. So yeah, you tried, mate.
I can think of only 2 invasions (1939 (from the Nazis and Soviets) and 1944/45 (from the Soviets)), so adding on the Brits, there’s still one missing, what is it?
The thing is; Soviet aircraft werent built for high altitude combat. 99% of air combat on the Eastern Front occured at lower altitudes, so there seemed to be no need to optimize Soviet aircraft for high altitude roles. Only later did designs like the MiG-7 high altitude fighter appear on drawing boards, but the majority of aircraft would still be Yak's and Lavochkin's, which had inferior high altitude performance compared to US Thunderbolts and Mustangs. This means that Soviet fighters would see little, if any, succes against the Allied bombing effort.
@@nimdaqa But they weren't really capable of intercepting the B-29, and US and British high alttitude bombers lol, the allies clearly enjoy the advantange in terms of air power.
@@paulbeck5919 Despite we already having examples of what amounts to faster and higher flying B-29s being shot down by what amounted to upgraded La-7s?
@@nimdaqa You got me there, however I must note that the MiG-1 and MiG-3 were early war designs and the idea of high altitude fighters was quickly abandoned after 1941-42 because most fighting was and would take place at low-medium altitudes on the eastern front, aside from very specific actions. They were also outliers; all other Soviet fighters were meant to fly at low-medium altitudes and this would stay true until the end of WW2. These aircraft were also very outdated by 1945 standards, and new aircraft like the MiG-7 wouldve been built.
People really underestimate the importance of morale, propaganda and the holocaust. How hard would the allied soldiers figth on an offensive war against their untill yesterday ally side by side with with the nazis? Especially after the concentration camps are revealed.
@@Newie69MKthe soviets didn't put millions of Poles and Jews inside extermination camps tho. If the soviets were as bad as the Nazis now half of Europe wouldn't be populated
"Okay, we need a name for the operation to invade and betray the Soviet Union" "But sir, we fought together with them for so long now, this plan is unthinkable!" ""Unthinkable", I like it! "
Considering we have an actual name (the Lost Generation) for the number of missing young people between the start of WW1 and the end of WW2, I'm really scared to think about the demographical changes globally from a third World War right before birth rates globally could recover, especially since this war would no doubt require more manpower on all sides combined than WWII.
I think about this a lot actually, not just the manpower cost from the military battles that would occur, but also the use of nuclear weapons. Over half the world’s population lives in cities. Before the shooting even starts, humanity would quadruple the number of WW2 casualties, in a single day.
The Lost Generation wasn’t called that because of the number of dead. Ernest Hemingway (who is partially credited with creating the term) coined it in reference to the fact that the war’s survivors where spiritualy lost and aimless with no direction in life due to the major social and political upheavals after the war.
It would most definitely deprive both Europe and the USSR states of 90% their male populations... Horrific to think about, almost as horrific as the prospect of *POOR KONIGSBERG REDUCED TO RUBBLE THE SECOND TIME!*
@@robertalaverdov8147 despite the fact that the Soviets weren't strong, they were actually pretty weak due to just how brutal the Eastern Front was. What were divisions on paper were only skeletons of such at best in reality.
I think something is massively overlooked in this video. The allies had massive manpower reserves that were mostly untouched in the previous fighting. The US alone had over 12 million active duty soldiers in 1945 before disarmament. While many of which would need to be shipped from other fronts to Europe, this is a substantial foe to the red army which boasted somewhere close to 11 million troops in total spread throughout their massive territory. In Europe there were almost 5 million allied troops between the us, British and French. I highly doubt that in the initial months the allies would need to replenish their forces with German pow’s.
The british empire also had the largest avaliable man power and natural resources. Aswell as american industrial and economic superiority. Also don't forget the royal navy and US navy were the 2 strongest in the world ( same gose for the usaf and raf )
Yeah but the question is would the British and American publics be willing to mobilise again for another long, costly overseas war against their former ally directly after WWII in Europe ended? I don’t think they would.
@@gmoder100 I think you would see such overwhelming resistance to the out of nowhere offensive war that it would basically be impossible. It would definitely bring down the Churchill Government (on the way out anyway) and sink Truman, and I seriously think the British Army would mutiny when they learn they are not in fact being demobilized
Every technological advance is widespread and increased when your existence is threatened, it's unlikely that an alien race would advance to the level of being capable of space travel without having had conflicts at least in its past
@@genericname998 You're just projecting as a homo sapiens, a species well known for its utter violence. That is the very reason why we can *only* imagine any other alien species as conquerors and creatures of nightmares willing to enslave us or make us disappear. Because that's what WE do when we have technological superiority. Plenty of other species develop symbiotic or commensal relationships...
The Soviets had to demobilize like a million men to harvest their crops in 1945 without mass starvation. They were a nation on the edge of collapse from how much of their assets were in the military
For anyone on the fence about armchair tv, if you’re super into history and love watching all of these videos and similar channels, it’s def worth getting it. There’s So many things that you would not know about. My favorite one so far was the one about the Cichociemni. I love hearing about Poland, and it’s awesome learning more about Poland that I’ve never even heard of
In actuality: pls do it. Liberate us from our “liberators” 😢 Countless countries would’ve taken up that cause, because to them, they were no diff from the Germans
The Soviets were booted from the allies team. Germany has joined the allies. The United Kingdom has declared war on the Soviet Union. Just a regular Hearts of iron 4 campaign.
@@Dashlapai1412*checks the current map of NATO* yep he's totally wrong, all these Eastern European countries just love being Russia's client state. Maybe the sentiments were different back then, but Russia sure knows how to make its neighbors hate it.
3 місяці тому+103
1:14 "From there, the Soviets were expected to capitulate" Gee, I wonder how that plan worked out for a certain Austrian painter four years prior...
A failed Austrian painter who wrote a terribly written manifesto and ecentually developed a drug addiction. Who in their right mind would follow his orders and expect it to turn out like he said it would? A real rational minded general would have admitted that the Wermacht lost the war at the end of 1941.
@@ComeAndTakeIt9235 Germans were quite stronger, with better battle experience, tactics and determination than Americans meanwhile Soviets were in the middle of modernization and relocation of their defensive lines.
My reaction to this video, as a german person living in the former Russian-occupied area of Germany: "Oh god, oh no. Thats gonna leave a lot of double-ruined cities"
Not to mention that any conscripted German soldiers would not be the same quality as they were before 1942. Far too many German soldiers were too young or too old by early 1945, and yet Churchill really thought about deploying them against the same Red Army that pummeled them without mercy?
@@3baxcbI don’t think that was the plan. I expect that Churchill hoped he could beat the Soviets with just British, American, and maybe French troops (yes, the French had rebuilt a few corps by the landings of 1944, and they generally performed quite well). Armchair is guessing (likely correctly) that, once the Soviet war machine kicked back into high gear, the Allies would find that they needed more men than they thought.
@@davidblair9877 yet, it was indeed part of Churchill's plan and no wonder. Most of nazi high command found their place in NATO structures in original timeline.
I agree, especially since the average american and soviet soldiers were quite fond of eachother, viewing one another almost strictly as allies and friends, as seen in many photos and war journals. Theres also a chance that one side or the other. If this plan went through, would have given up poland just to avoid getting into another meat grinder, especially the soviets, and considering the americans basically bankrolled the soviet union, it would be unlikely that the soviets would defeat a full blown full scale invasion by the us alone, let alone britain, and whats left of all the others allied and ally occupied axis countries.
Is crazy how some UA-camrs change their topics so weirdly. Whatifalhist stopped with alt history and began making historical and weird future predictions. And the armchair historican is stopping historial vids for alt history. And i love it.
Love that your content is in 21:9 aspect, and does not have baked in letterboxing like so many uploads on the platform, allowing me to fully enjoy it in ultrawide on desktop and mobile.
Please don't, what actually happened in comparison is far more interesting to hypothetical scenarios that may be either implausable or plausable in theory but not hold up to scrutiny.
you should make a video with "what ifs" from operation Valkyrie that led into Operation Unthinkable, where Germany is on the side of the Allies and fights the soviets.
So, Britain really went ''this huge global-scale war larger than what this species has ever seen in its violent history and one that reduced the entirety of Europe to smouldering rubble was not enough, _LET'S IMMEDIATELY FOLLOW IT UP WITH ANOTHER WORLD WAR!''_ Churchill truly was one of the politicians of the time, even moreso in this alternate reality. Anyways I *LOVE* the prospect of super high-quality alt-history videos from this already amazing history channel!
I guess the theory was that the West was, at the end of the war, geared up for war to an incredible extent. Plus, the Americans were already deployed in Europe in large numbers, and German troops were organized & available. Might as well start the East/West war then if such a war was inevitable. As it was, it also seemed to strange to to call a war fought in response to the takeovers of Poland & Czechoslovakia a victory, when those nations and several others finished the war under the harsh boot of a conqueror. Personally, I don't know if the right call was made -- especially when you consider that a side-effect of the battle might have been to keep China uncommunized. Russia had a good image then, though, generally. It was felt they'd fought valiantly, and by then few cared about Eastern Europe any more. It's too bad we can't see alternate histories for real. I guess the most we can do is try to understand what actually happened, and what people were thinking at the time.
@@polarvortex3294 I agree with you mostly, especially on the wishing that we could peek into an alternate reality where such things _did_ happen, that'd be great and teach us a lot about our own history. And I think that Russia/Soviet Union's positive image _was_ completely justified, they did fight extremely bravely and had suffered the most out of this war, with many millions of innocent people murdered by the Germans there. The launching of the Operation Unthinkable itself could have truly not come at the better time for the west, as it was a ''now or never'' situation if they wanted to unconditionally rule the world (from a political sense), however, it would still have been a disastrous operation and take a humungous human toll on an already devastated Europe.
@@NickAndriadze You can imagine a ferocious battle taking place in a Polish town, and after throwing a grenade through the window of a house, an American soldier sees the old owners of the house standing nearby, both weeping at this latest catastrophe. And the soldier says, "Cheer up, you two. We're doing this for you!"
Soviet union lost 22 million people from wich 12 million solidier , not like the US 300 k and the british 100k killed , the soviet dont have any réserve , they all used against the Germans , they cant win like they did in the last war
Capitulate wasn't the right word. Neither side would have aimed to fight out the war to the point one or the other is forced into an unconditional surrender. The operation's purpose was to push Soviet troops away from Eastern Europe and force a conditional surrender upon the USSR to limit communist influence back into its pre-war borders.
@@thelordofcringethey would’ve had food but it wouldn’t be enough as the United States could feed its troops with ice cream on the side and a magazine, not only that England has some of the best trained soldiers and generals that Zhukov would’ve been demoted
Maybe this comment comes a bit too late, but I think that you overlooked one of the most important aspects considering the Red side. There were almost all the eastern countries that still had armies that would have not sided with the soviets. Romanians, Czechs and some Polish troops at least, plus a lot of sabotage of the unwelcome soviet troops in those countries. There would have been LOTS of hot pockets behind the lines and their supply lines would be severely affected by these troops. Also Greece and Italy would have been important in helping the allies.
The second scenario almost completely ignores the fact that is Stalin of who we are talking, surrendering by losing one port and one army? It's hilarious
@@LeoInterVir small corection: hitler decided to commit genocide against the people in charge of allied mass media. Stalin only killed christians, which was totally fine in their book
So, if Scenario B were to happen, would Operation Downfall go through? Or would the US wait till they had nukes 3 and 4? I wanna see a video about that
@@literaldirtnot really , no 3 was almost ready Little boy droped on aug6 Fat man on aug 9 No3 was supposed to be droped on aug 19 Less then 2 wreks after fat man
Japan was actually about to surrender before the nukes were dropped but they wanted confirmation on what the allies would do with the emperor. However, with the Allies fighting the Soviets in Europe, maybe they’d feel compelled to keep fighting
@@JoaoPedro-ol7sl Meanwhile, Georgy Zhukov, Stalin and the Soviet High Command: "This Operation was so thinkable, Stalin! How could you of not thought of this?" "Old habits die hard.."
Second scenario: In reality Stalin would be untouched by the bombings due to them being on german territory. He would most likely order for unrestricted use of sarine gas on allied troops.
The question bio and chem weapons is an interesting one. The Soviets didn’t use them against the Germans because the Germans had more and better. But would that same calculation occur in this scenario? Would the Soviet reaction to nukes be anthrax and chemical weapons attacks?
@@Voland1871 "Without Mercy" Maybe? In the case of bombs it is quite... confusing to say the least Maybe they attacked without mercy, maybe they retreated, maybe gas and chemical weapons... "Maybe"
@@chheinrich8486the timetravellers should demonstrate even further how bad of an idea this is considering that the USSR stops existing 46 years from now
No. By 1945, there have been riots in the Western Allies' side of soldiers wanting to go home. That situation led to two events: Operation Magic Carpet (demobilization) and the "Points system"...
This really went into a lot of detail that I had not considered before. I knew that such a war would’ve been costly, but it’s easy to remain ignorant of just how costly it would’ve been.
Theodore Roosevelt: I’m an American stud, and you’re the British Elmer Fudd! You should be ashamed of your military honor! Winston Churchill: I was saving the planet from an Axis of Darkness, while you were back home opening National Parks! Yes!
russia had a population of 170 million and america had a population of 130 million of WWII by the end of WWII russia lost 29 million people and america lost 400,000 people so by the end of WWII america still had a large amount of its conscript able population left but russia was battered manpower wise also don't forget america also had france, uk, india, and other countries who have relatively large population pools so they could throw bodies at the line aswhell if it came down to attritional warfare the allies would have beaten russia simply because it would have been meny countries vs 1 battered country and its war torn puppets
Do a What if with Napoleon winning Waterloo (with Davout and Suchet being there), and actually conducting a successful campaign against the allies. I really want more What Ifs with Napoleon. What if Napoleon intervened in Spain rather than Russia? What if Napoleon's Marshalls were successful in Spain? What if Davout HAD been at Leipzig, or what if he HAD been against Wellington in Spain? What if Traflagar was a success for Napoleon?
The French just couldn't sustain a war against the rest of Europe. Napoleon's only leverages: superior troop quality, organization and strategy have all but wanned in the decade leading to his fall.
I like how everyone in the comments think this is hoi4 and both sides are going to fight to thr bitter end. The soviets would be the only ones willing to do that and after atomic weaponry and radiation side effects, stalin would have no problem at all using chemical weapons.
The Soviets had absolutely no manpower reserves left whatsoever so I can see Stalin throwing in the towel after the nukes are dropped Remember this war would be a war over Europe not a war for the very survival of the Slavic people like the Great Patriotic War was
However, with the US continuously making and deploying nuclear weapons, eventually they would be unable to continue fighting as their armies would all just be destroyed. Plus total allied superiority at air and sea, no more lend lease, no more raw materials eventually, soviets would literally be unable to continue fighting
The video doesn't even mention Japan in Scenario A and B, kind of a big "plothole". Of course Japan wouldn't surrender under these conditions, especially with the nukes being deployed in Europe.
It would be a hell of a case in the Balkans with Greece standing alone and Turkey getting tangled into this since they joined on the side of the Allies. Greece would fight a Soviet Invasion and a Civil War while Turkey would have to choose very quickly to either side with USA-UK and fight along or join the USSR and change sides.
20:30 - A US Invasion against the SU wouldn’t have been that far from reality, we had a program in Alaska at that time called “Operation Hula” to equip and train Soviet sailors and army members with US built landing craft. We could have moved many more there, and our navy would ensure that Japan wouldn’t have been able to do much.
I think that he is overlooking the air supremacy that the allies would have had. The soviets had enjoyed air superiority or at least parity for the past 3 years and would have been completely unprepared for zero air support and constant bombing.
The irony of Germany repeatedly warning that the Soviets were a threat to Europe, for Churchill to go out of his way to defeat Germany (allegedly in support of Poland) and then bowing to Stalin at almost every turn isn't lost on me. Even more so when he came up with this.
The irony of Germany repeatedly warning that the Soviets were a threat to Europe, while actually be the greatest threat to Europe isn't lost to anyone.
@@BigBoi678 Then thr soviets occupied half of europe and put up puppet regimes and exiled the acting governemts of said countries. Almost like there was truth to the german's insane ramblings at the time. They were not better just had better pr because of the war.
In the second scenario I doubt the Soviets would make peace after both atomic bombs are dropped simply due to them being dropped on Germany. I'd say the Red Army would fight on and eventually a third bomb (once developed) dropped on Kyiv, Krasnodar or Baku would finally "encourage" Stalin to negotiate. Now another "What If" scenario: What if the UK and France declared war on the USSR on September 17th 1939 and the second world war devolved into a three way fight
How'd american bombers would be able to reach so deep into Soviet territory, though? Declaration of war on USSR by allies in 1939 would result in Germany not declaring one on soviets, duh. Allies would lose, horribly.
I find the idea of the Soviets not only repelling the western Allied invasion but also pushing them back past the original lines absurd. Sure they managed to recover from the relatively well from the worst times of the war but that doesn't mean they weren't severely hurting.
Exactly. People really tend to forget US and Allied air power had absolutely domination. The Red Air Force was struggling with a broken Luftwaffe. Granted it would be a tough fight, but trust and believe we would’ve won the air campaign.
One thing that I'm glad I saw in this scenario that is often left out is the civilian support or even soldier morale. Any side that chose to invade the other would almost immediately see the attack backfire. For the past 4 years the people saw the other side as an ally and were exposed to continuous propaganda telling them that that is the case. An invasion like this from either side would instantly cause demonstartions and loose all public support. Partisan activity would bog down supply lines on both sides. If the Soviets invaded their supply lines would be consistently terrorized by the Polish and Baltic fighters and if the allies invaded their supply lines would be terrorized by the former French resistance members (most of the French resistance fighters were leftists and a good chunk were extremists and pro soviet, French resistance only trully begins with operation Barbarosa). If the former Nazi soldiers were to be conscripted it would cause even more civilian disapproval and mutiny among the soldiers (how would jewish americans/brits feel fighting alongside former SS?), this is also the time people were just finding out about the externination camps so rehabilitation of the Nazis would be a disaster. For crying out loud the US only joined the war once they were attacked and the UK saw student demonstartions for peace with Hitler (before the blitzkrieg started). Overall continuing the war once the Nazis are defeted would be a disaster for either side.
I have a other scenario is when all the troops from all side refuse to attack each other as they had defeated the nazi together and so the army from all side disobey the orders and so the united state and the UK is force to cancel the operation unthinkable
Unlikely, there's was minimal joint operation or camaraderie between the West and the Soviets on the ground, the real rejection came from the western civilians and American government, (the outcome we actually got) the American public never wanted in the war to begin with and FDR preferred the reds over the redcoats.
Gotta admit, this may be the best WW2 alternate history thus far. Principally because of THREE scenarios, all tackled with a sense of fact with the accompanying animation and fairly in depth within the allotted time. Well done kind sirs. Well done INDEED!
well the 2nd one doesn’t, but i have no idea why he didn’t mention them at all in the other scenario. he goes on about soviet artillery when it was only useful for initial mass barrages whereas allied artillery and air power were much more developed and advanced
@@bobsemple9341 you act as if i can provide documents and sources over youtube comments, the allies would very obviously gain air superiority over the soviets, a source is not needed to come to this conclusion and you know it
Amazing video guys, true to your art style, and giving some genuine postulations on what may have happened...given the entire cold war was basically prepping for effectively what you've shown here, but with more nukes, it's morbidly fascinating (what cold war analysis isn't?) to consider what may have happened in these earlier phases, post the Soviets building their own Bomb. Stellar work as always
This “what if” questions are a reason why I’ve stopped watching kurzgesagt couple of years ago. They moved away from scientifically proven topics to purely theoretical what ifs and thats very repulsive to watch. Please don’t turn this channel into that.
@@DP-rt3ph why are you tweaking over speculation you only find greater knowledge by steping into the unknown deep end. You use known knowns to figure out known unknowns
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Keep up the quality content
Gimme brain 🧠 😋
Please make a vid on the weapons of the 1965 war
Do a video on Steiner offensive
Or china invading Ukraine or Taiwan
Stop using the image of the two soviet man without stolen watches
So... The endings are basically:
Scenario 1: Cold War Premium
Scenario 2: NATO Speed Run
Scenario 3: Red Alert 3
Red Alert 1*
Scenario 4: Castle Itter Electric Boogaloo
@@Danzel_Gaming Castle of the breakdancing?
Yes @@flackstar007
🎶Nash sovietsky Soyuz pokaraet. Ves' mir ot evropy k neve na vosto-ok🎶
Armchair Historian has started his "Alternate History Arc"
I'm here for it
Cody from AltHistHub shaking in his boots
I was here!
@@crome2021Mentally Dominated as Bokoen1 would say
This is the opposite trend of whatifalthist, man 2024 really is the year of changes.
The craziest part is that the planners thought the soviets would capitulate if the uk took some Polish cities when they didn’t capitulate with the Germans at the gate of Moscow and Leningrad
The Germans didn't have B-29s, let alone atomic weapons. I'm not sure why they'd bother blowing up Kummersdorf when they had the range to blow up St. Petersberg.
que the comments: "the ussr wouldve collapsed without americas help", as if the ussr didnt have 2.x the manpower of all the allies combined NOT including lend lease equipment
@@lightningstrike5024 remember 70% of everything the soviets built were made with American supply
The difference was in objectives. Russians were in high spirit defending homeland, and then defeating the enemy who has done so many attrocities on their territory. Allies could have reached Polish-Soviet border and then establish defence. With destroyed economy, struggling industry, without Lend-Lease and ideological motivation for soviets it would be hard time.
If Stalingrad wasn't Hitler's personal 'I want that city!' and instead the rest of the army would seize Georgia and all of the key oil fields nearby, status quo would be enough for Soviets to run out of pretty much everything.
So yeah, you tried, mate.
Imagine the poor Poles if this actually happened.
"THIS IS THE FOURTH TIME IN 6 YEARS WE'VE BEEN INVADED. PLEASE. STOP."
I can think of only 2 invasions (1939 (from the Nazis and Soviets) and 1944/45 (from the Soviets)), so adding on the Brits, there’s still one missing, what is it?
I think the poles would have taken a few more years of war than the next 50 or so years of russian occupation
@@JimHoxworth-s5s I think he's referring to the Soviet invasion in 1939
And then probs the Soviet 1943 offensive
@@phonkyman237 Ah, didn’t realize that counted as a separate thing, my B
Soldier: YAY FINALLY WW2 IS OVER NO MORE SUFFERING
Churchill:get ready guys we are going to invade the USSR
Surrendered German Soldier: Good luck with that, Winston.
@@3baxcbWinston: who said you would be staying here? you’re leading the way.
@@stargazer-eliteGerman soldier: Saße
British soldier:
Good luck all of you. I'm communist now. So, it's no reason to fight with my future government!
@@ЕвгенийКоваленко-ш9ж cringe
Imagine if General Patton discovered about Operation Unthinkable, he would have instantly been on board right away😂☠️
True😂😂
Probably wouldn’t have had to kill him this time.
"There is a very appearent semitic influence in the press" -Patton
Patton would have busted a fat nut if he got his hands on these plans.
Patton and Macarthur
It feels surreal that the same art style, channel, and good ol' voice are now teaching me alt history! Wow!
Alt history?
"Operation Unthinkable" aka Churchill's last attempt to avoid getting his ass clapped by Clement Attley in the 1946 UK General Elections.
Lol
Churchill is a war criminal…
It's a shame Clement let party politics bring him down which fucked the UK's socialist movements going forward
Get out
get out
My little brother came in whilst I was watching this and said “Oh I’m learning about this in school!”
What timeline is he from?
Mine
@@SnazzupieScary
That's Unthinkable
Bro must play hoi4
It suddenly became Operation Thinkable.
Operation Ununthinkable
Operation Thinkable ununthinkable
@@peg2legs90Operation Unununthinkable
@@DoctorDeath147
Operation "Bugger That"
Operation Reparation
The thing is; Soviet aircraft werent built for high altitude combat. 99% of air combat on the Eastern Front occured at lower altitudes, so there seemed to be no need to optimize Soviet aircraft for high altitude roles. Only later did designs like the MiG-7 high altitude fighter appear on drawing boards, but the majority of aircraft would still be Yak's and Lavochkin's, which had inferior high altitude performance compared to US Thunderbolts and Mustangs. This means that Soviet fighters would see little, if any, succes against the Allied bombing effort.
MiG-1 and MiG-3 were high altitude designs built early during WW2 clearly you have no clue.
@@nimdaqa But they weren't really capable of intercepting the B-29, and US and British high alttitude bombers lol, the allies clearly enjoy the advantange in terms of air power.
@@nimdaqa old and inferior planes. don't blame him for not mentioning them
@@paulbeck5919 Despite we already having examples of what amounts to faster and higher flying B-29s being shot down by what amounted to upgraded La-7s?
@@nimdaqa You got me there, however I must note that the MiG-1 and MiG-3 were early war designs and the idea of high altitude fighters was quickly abandoned after 1941-42 because most fighting was and would take place at low-medium altitudes on the eastern front, aside from very specific actions. They were also outliers; all other Soviet fighters were meant to fly at low-medium altitudes and this would stay true until the end of WW2. These aircraft were also very outdated by 1945 standards, and new aircraft like the MiG-7 wouldve been built.
People really underestimate the importance of morale, propaganda and the holocaust.
How hard would the allied soldiers figth on an offensive war against their untill yesterday ally side by side with with the nazis? Especially after the concentration camps are revealed.
Yet folks forget that the Soviets originally aligned with the Germans when they invaded Poland. Funny how folks forget that.
People underestimate how "done" Soviet troops were too, they had no fight in 1945.
@@Newie69MKthe soviets didn't put millions of Poles and Jews inside extermination camps tho. If the soviets were as bad as the Nazis now half of Europe wouldn't be populated
@@evulclownTell that to the Wermacht and the Japanese Imperial Army.
@@3baxcb Yeah thankfully they were super "done". That's not what the video is about though is it?
Will we get a video on operation downfall aka the planned invasion of Japan in 1945?
No we aren’t shut up now
no shut up
no now shut up
no now shut up
no now shut up
Alternate History Hub was right, he's infected the rest of youtube with the genre, what has he done and how can we thank him?
?
He once said in the previous video that he "brought the curse of Alternate History onto other UA-cam History Channels"
Wonder how it feels to be the Prometheus of a genre like that
@@jacobberg373 marvels what if show helped with that
@@jacobberg373its really out fault, if it didn't get views people wouldn't make it
Surrender is not a word in Joseph Stalin's vocabulary.
He doesn't have much of a choice against such odds
korea?
@@DavidNaval ended several months after his death, proving original point. Stalin had no surrender in his vocabulary.
@@DavidNaval name a single soviet army involved in the korean war
@@americancommunist6076 hundreds of soviet pilots flew soviet jets for north korea
"Okay, we need a name for the operation to invade and betray the Soviet Union"
"But sir, we fought together with them for so long now, this plan is unthinkable!"
""Unthinkable", I like it! "
"It's Fantastic" ahh comment
Considering we have an actual name (the Lost Generation) for the number of missing young people between the start of WW1 and the end of WW2, I'm really scared to think about the demographical changes globally from a third World War right before birth rates globally could recover, especially since this war would no doubt require more manpower on all sides combined than WWII.
There is just not enought manpower to have WWII numbers.
It would still be WW2, Japan hadn't fallen yet.
I think about this a lot actually, not just the manpower cost from the military battles that would occur, but also the use of nuclear weapons. Over half the world’s population lives in cities. Before the shooting even starts, humanity would quadruple the number of WW2 casualties, in a single day.
The Lost Generation wasn’t called that because of the number of dead. Ernest Hemingway (who is partially credited with creating the term) coined it in reference to the fact that the war’s survivors where spiritualy lost and aimless with no direction in life due to the major social and political upheavals after the war.
It would most definitely deprive both Europe and the USSR states of 90% their male populations... Horrific to think about, almost as horrific as the prospect of *POOR KONIGSBERG REDUCED TO RUBBLE THE SECOND TIME!*
Getting a girlfriend? Unthinkable.
😂
would love to have a battlefield game set in a alternate 1945 centered around operation unthinkable.
wc4 :NWM has that.
HOI3 has a scenario for operation Unthinkable. Very challenging to win as the Allies. The Soviets are super strong.
@@robertalaverdov8147 despite the fact that the Soviets weren't strong, they were actually pretty weak due to just how brutal the Eastern Front was. What were divisions on paper were only skeletons of such at best in reality.
@@TheTrueAdept Those "skeleton" divisions still outnumbered the allies in manpower, tanks, and artillery 2 to 1.
@@robertalaverdov8147 only on paper. This topic showed up on occasion on Spacebattles and outside the Russoboos, the end is the Soviets get walloped.
This enraged adolfs father who punished him severely.
😂
Australia donates its fearsome Emu Army.
I think something is massively overlooked in this video. The allies had massive manpower reserves that were mostly untouched in the previous fighting. The US alone had over 12 million active duty soldiers in 1945 before disarmament. While many of which would need to be shipped from other fronts to Europe, this is a substantial foe to the red army which boasted somewhere close to 11 million troops in total spread throughout their massive territory. In Europe there were almost 5 million allied troops between the us, British and French. I highly doubt that in the initial months the allies would need to replenish their forces with German pow’s.
The british empire also had the largest avaliable man power and natural resources. Aswell as american industrial and economic superiority. Also don't forget the royal navy and US navy were the 2 strongest in the world ( same gose for the usaf and raf )
All while Russia's industrial capacity gets heavily hindered by both bombing, blockades and ya know, the west not supplying them a damn thing anymore.
Yeah but the question is would the British and American publics be willing to mobilise again for another long, costly overseas war against their former ally directly after WWII in Europe ended? I don’t think they would.
@@TonyGModestothey’d probably just pull the typical government move and conscript them anyways.
@@gmoder100
I think you would see such overwhelming resistance to the out of nowhere offensive war that it would basically be impossible. It would definitely bring down the Churchill Government (on the way out anyway) and sink Truman, and I seriously think the British Army would mutiny when they learn they are not in fact being demobilized
"Why don't aliens come here and visit us?"
Average human disagreements:💀
why show up to take over when you can just wait and let us destroy ourselves.
Every technological advance is widespread and increased when your existence is threatened, it's unlikely that an alien race would advance to the level of being capable of space travel without having had conflicts at least in its past
@@genericname998 You're just projecting as a homo sapiens, a species well known for its utter violence. That is the very reason why we can *only* imagine any other alien species as conquerors and creatures of nightmares willing to enslave us or make us disappear. Because that's what WE do when we have technological superiority. Plenty of other species develop symbiotic or commensal relationships...
but what if aliens thinks like aliens and not like humans@@genericname998
We think we are civilized but we are vicious animals
“The soviets were expected to capitulate”
Hitler said the same thing 5 years prior
Either that or complete devastation
The Soviets had just lost so many people and I wouldn’t fight with the same ferocity against the Americans. Not to mention anti communist partisans
The Soviets had to demobilize like a million men to harvest their crops in 1945 without mass starvation. They were a nation on the edge of collapse from how much of their assets were in the military
Stupid American 🇺🇸 underestimating their enemies
The Soviets would have capitulated. With American production doesn’t matter how many Soviets there were American factories would’ve been undefeated
For anyone on the fence about armchair tv, if you’re super into history and love watching all of these videos and similar channels, it’s def worth getting it. There’s So many things that you would not know about. My favorite one so far was the one about the Cichociemni. I love hearing about Poland, and it’s awesome learning more about Poland that I’ve never even heard of
I think Churchill and McArthur would get along pretty well.
Oh definitely
And Patton
@@cartwrightworm1317he was right about them
"There is a very appearent semitic influence in the press" -Patton
MacArthur and Stalin would have…actually no, they were both megalomaniacal arseholes, definitely would have ended up killing each other.
All of Europe: We've lost millions of lives and endured unspeakable horrors, but at least its finally over.
Churchill: But wait there's more.
In actuality: pls do it. Liberate us from our “liberators” 😢
Countless countries would’ve taken up that cause, because to them, they were no diff from the Germans
@@hollister2320you're probably wrong
@@hollister2320Oh how wrong you are
The Soviets were booted from the allies team.
Germany has joined the allies.
The United Kingdom has declared war on the Soviet Union.
Just a regular Hearts of iron 4 campaign.
@@Dashlapai1412*checks the current map of NATO* yep he's totally wrong, all these Eastern European countries just love being Russia's client state.
Maybe the sentiments were different back then, but Russia sure knows how to make its neighbors hate it.
1:14 "From there, the Soviets were expected to capitulate"
Gee, I wonder how that plan worked out for a certain Austrian painter four years prior...
A failed Austrian painter who wrote a terribly written manifesto and ecentually developed a drug addiction.
Who in their right mind would follow his orders and expect it to turn out like he said it would? A real rational minded general would have admitted that the Wermacht lost the war at the end of 1941.
i mean, it’s different circumstances. the west wouldn’t push into the ussr and even if they did they would exterminate the russians
@@3baxcb the swift and absolute success over France in 1940 quite dulled the skepticism in German army, though.
The germans were far weaker and still pushed the Soviets back to Moscow
@@ComeAndTakeIt9235 Germans were quite stronger, with better battle experience, tactics and determination than Americans meanwhile Soviets were in the middle of modernization and relocation of their defensive lines.
Truman : "War's over! Now there shall be peace!"
Churchill and Stalin: "Yes... Peace"
stalin wanted peace, churchill having paronia that the soviet union was out to get him
Oversimpliefied reference?
Nice
@@marxel4444 relax buddy
Pieces
If it wasn't for the death camps, Operation Unthinkable may very well have happened.
Former waffen SS volunteers fought in Korea and Indochina
In the French Foreign Legion.
Shout lauri törnis name! a soldier of 3 armies knows the game!
Legends
And formed the East German Soviet states secret police the Stasi
@@Nuggit2009 knows the game but lost 3 times? Such a bad gamer he is
I would guess the biggest reason this didn’t happen was that Churchill figured he couldn’t get the US to fight another war for him.
My reaction to this video, as a german person living in the former Russian-occupied area of Germany:
"Oh god, oh no. Thats gonna leave a lot of double-ruined cities"
Not to mention that any conscripted German soldiers would not be the same quality as they were before 1942. Far too many German soldiers were too young or too old by early 1945, and yet Churchill really thought about deploying them against the same Red Army that pummeled them without mercy?
@@3baxcbI don’t think that was the plan. I expect that Churchill hoped he could beat the Soviets with just British, American, and maybe French troops (yes, the French had rebuilt a few corps by the landings of 1944, and they generally performed quite well). Armchair is guessing (likely correctly) that, once the Soviet war machine kicked back into high gear, the Allies would find that they needed more men than they thought.
@@davidblair9877 yet, it was indeed part of Churchill's plan and no wonder. Most of nazi high command found their place in NATO structures in original timeline.
Dont you hate it when your rubble is turned into rubble.
Soviets won they would make ur city worse then rubble
Damn, Winston! Wtf is this? You really need to go to church and chill, jeez...
i see what you did there
What a time to be alive
🔥✍️
Say that again?
@@SouljiaBoiGET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD
For real, i honestly believe soldiers on both sides would refuse to fight cause they JUST fought the biggest war in world history.
I agree, especially since the average american and soviet soldiers were quite fond of eachother, viewing one another almost strictly as allies and friends, as seen in many photos and war journals. Theres also a chance that one side or the other. If this plan went through, would have given up poland just to avoid getting into another meat grinder, especially the soviets, and considering the americans basically bankrolled the soviet union, it would be unlikely that the soviets would defeat a full blown full scale invasion by the us alone, let alone britain, and whats left of all the others allied and ally occupied axis countries.
thats what happened in our timeline
Same was said about fighting WW2. Why do you think Appeasement was so popular at the time?
Eitherway Churchill or others president will get overthrown if this ever happen, the civil unrest is insane
I disagree. They would have fought.
Is crazy how some UA-camrs change their topics so weirdly.
Whatifalhist stopped with alt history and began making historical and weird future predictions.
And the armchair historican is stopping historial vids for alt history.
And i love it.
Well, for now it's only a single video. This has a huge potential of turning into a series, but I don't think it'll fully take over the channel.
I really like this. There’s not a lot of quality UA-cam channels that do alternate history in this way
Love that your content is in 21:9 aspect, and does not have baked in letterboxing like so many uploads on the platform, allowing me to fully enjoy it in ultrawide on desktop and mobile.
Armchair Historian Alternate History? I am doomed!
Great quality, keep it up!
Very surprising in it !
Bulgarian Nationalist spotted 📢📢🗣️🗣️🗣️📢🗣️📢🗣️📢🗣️🗣️🗣️📢🗣️📢🗣️📢🗣️
Make "the what if?" a series please
Agreed and approved.
no, but it'll be good to see 2 per year
YES
Please don't, what actually happened in comparison is far more interesting to hypothetical scenarios that may be either implausable or plausable in theory but not hold up to scrutiny.
Please do more what if videos
you should make a video with "what ifs" from operation Valkyrie that led into Operation Unthinkable, where Germany is on the side of the Allies and fights the soviets.
Alternate history hub is spreading his sphere of influence lmao
1:12 "And from there the Soviets were expected to capitulate."
Literally 1941
So, Britain really went ''this huge global-scale war larger than what this species has ever seen in its violent history and one that reduced the entirety of Europe to smouldering rubble was not enough, _LET'S IMMEDIATELY FOLLOW IT UP WITH ANOTHER WORLD WAR!''_ Churchill truly was one of the politicians of the time, even moreso in this alternate reality.
Anyways I *LOVE* the prospect of super high-quality alt-history videos from this already amazing history channel!
I guess the theory was that the West was, at the end of the war, geared up for war to an incredible extent. Plus, the Americans were already deployed in Europe in large numbers, and German troops were organized & available. Might as well start the East/West war then if such a war was inevitable.
As it was, it also seemed to strange to to call a war fought in response to the takeovers of Poland & Czechoslovakia a victory, when those nations and several others finished the war under the harsh boot of a conqueror.
Personally, I don't know if the right call was made -- especially when you consider that a side-effect of the battle might have been to keep China uncommunized.
Russia had a good image then, though, generally. It was felt they'd fought valiantly, and by then few cared about Eastern Europe any more.
It's too bad we can't see alternate histories for real. I guess the most we can do is try to understand what actually happened, and what people were thinking at the time.
@@polarvortex3294 I agree with you mostly, especially on the wishing that we could peek into an alternate reality where such things _did_ happen, that'd be great and teach us a lot about our own history. And I think that Russia/Soviet Union's positive image _was_ completely justified, they did fight extremely bravely and had suffered the most out of this war, with many millions of innocent people murdered by the Germans there. The launching of the Operation Unthinkable itself could have truly not come at the better time for the west, as it was a ''now or never'' situation if they wanted to unconditionally rule the world (from a political sense), however, it would still have been a disastrous operation and take a humungous human toll on an already devastated Europe.
@@NickAndriadze You can imagine a ferocious battle taking place in a Polish town, and after throwing a grenade through the window of a house, an American soldier sees the old owners of the house standing nearby, both weeping at this latest catastrophe. And the soldier says, "Cheer up, you two. We're doing this for you!"
Churchill: I'm going to start another war
UK: yeah, no
1:16 "The Societs would capitulate." It's almost as if Churchill hasnt been watching the Soviet Union over the past couple of years.
Soviet union lost 22 million people from wich 12 million solidier , not like the US 300 k and the british 100k killed , the soviet dont have any réserve , they all used against the Germans , they cant win like they did in the last war
Capitulate wasn't the right word. Neither side would have aimed to fight out the war to the point one or the other is forced into an unconditional surrender. The operation's purpose was to push Soviet troops away from Eastern Europe and force a conditional surrender upon the USSR to limit communist influence back into its pre-war borders.
The Soviets literally wouldn't have had food for most of the nation without demobilizing a massive portion of their army in 45 so...
lol you really underestimate the United States and the British
@@thelordofcringethey would’ve had food but it wouldn’t be enough as the United States could feed its troops with ice cream on the side and a magazine, not only that England has some of the best trained soldiers and generals that Zhukov would’ve been demoted
Maybe this comment comes a bit too late, but I think that you overlooked one of the most important aspects considering the Red side. There were almost all the eastern countries that still had armies that would have not sided with the soviets. Romanians, Czechs and some Polish troops at least, plus a lot of sabotage of the unwelcome soviet troops in those countries. There would have been LOTS of hot pockets behind the lines and their supply lines would be severely affected by these troops. Also Greece and Italy would have been important in helping the allies.
Alternate History??? By the Armchair Historian!?!?? How generous
This would have been a intersting alternate history scenerio.
Would make a solid fps or rts game premise
@@Godzilla00Xyess, someone needs to make an RTS out of this
The second scenario almost completely ignores the fact that is Stalin of who we are talking, surrendering by losing one port and one army? It's hilarious
Imagine Hitler finding out the Allies were considering Op.Unthinkable.. "WTH dudes, it's exactly what I've been beseeching you about since 1940!!"
democracy crushes communism, fascism does not
Except Hitler decided to commit genocide.
Stalin did to with Holodomor but the media covered for him.
@@LeoInterVir small corection: hitler decided to commit genocide against the people in charge of allied mass media. Stalin only killed christians, which was totally fine in their book
So, if Scenario B were to happen, would Operation Downfall go through? Or would the US wait till they had nukes 3 and 4? I wanna see a video about that
A 3rd one was already being worked on, so I think waiting for more nukes is likely
i imagine they'd wait for more nukes to be made
@@literaldirtnot really , no 3 was almost ready
Little boy droped on aug6
Fat man on aug 9
No3 was supposed to be droped on aug 19
Less then 2 wreks after fat man
@@roghider319not only worked on
It was supposed to drop less then 2 weeks after fat man
Japan was actually about to surrender before the nukes were dropped but they wanted confirmation on what the allies would do with the emperor. However, with the Allies fighting the Soviets in Europe, maybe they’d feel compelled to keep fighting
love how churchill was largely responsible for the ottomans joining the central powers in ww1 and possibly igniting the cold war, what a lad
This is unthinkable....
Say that again?
@@koinu2741 "sir, the operation is unthinkable"
@@JoaoPedro-ol7sl"Mr prime minister how could you even consider this? It's absurd, unfathomable... unthinkable even"
@@repdebt "unthinkable... I like that"
@@JoaoPedro-ol7sl Meanwhile, Georgy Zhukov, Stalin and the Soviet High Command: "This Operation was so thinkable, Stalin! How could you of not thought of this?"
"Old habits die hard.."
>Operation Unthinkable
>im thinking about it
So without American and British supplies, the Soviets somehow found a way to bring in oil, steel, rubber, and perhaps most importantly...food!!!
Second scenario:
In reality Stalin would be untouched by the bombings due to them being on german territory. He would most likely order for unrestricted use of sarine gas on allied troops.
also i think you underestimate the destruction of moral that would happen if the bombs where dropped
He would be untouched by entire soviet armies and divisions being obliterated with 1 bomb? I dunno chief
The question bio and chem weapons is an interesting one. The Soviets didn’t use them against the Germans because the Germans had more and better. But would that same calculation occur in this scenario? Would the Soviet reaction to nukes be anthrax and chemical weapons attacks?
@@Voland1871 "Without Mercy" Maybe? In the case of bombs it is quite... confusing to say the least
Maybe they attacked without mercy, maybe they retreated, maybe gas and chemical weapons... "Maybe"
@@Allmotorzl1 a division was wiped out and the allies don't have any more bombs, seems like a prime time for a counteroffensive
It really is a thought if this operation really happened. Even if the UK and the other Allies attacked the Soviet Union, would the populous agree?
Without timetravellers telling them what a headache the soviets and their puppets would become? Unlikely
@@chheinrich8486the timetravellers should demonstrate even further how bad of an idea this is considering that the USSR stops existing 46 years from now
No. By 1945, there have been riots in the Western Allies' side of soldiers wanting to go home. That situation led to two events: Operation Magic Carpet (demobilization) and the "Points system"...
No. While it does make sense to push the Communists out of Europe everyone was tired of war and Hitler was gone.
no, simple as. i think with this 1945 ww3 scenario, whoever starts the war loses
This really went into a lot of detail that I had not considered before. I knew that such a war would’ve been costly, but it’s easy to remain ignorant of just how costly it would’ve been.
What would happen if Britain attacked but the USA said "not what we signed up for, neutral" and began withdrawing from Europe?
that wouldn't happen, by late 44 the americans were calling the shots
Then, you my friend should search about Operation Dropshot.
The UK wouldn't attack if the Americans refused the operation.
Only reason America avoided war with the USSR for so long was because of nukes. I doubt the biggest hater of communism would be neutral
This operation in any case presupposes direct US participation in this conflict.@@KumarAyushman2006
Theodore Roosevelt: I’m an American stud, and you’re the British Elmer Fudd! You should be ashamed of your military honor!
Winston Churchill: I was saving the planet from an Axis of Darkness, while you were back home opening National Parks! Yes!
I don’t think it’s fair for a British bulldog to quarrel with a teddy bear.
@@raptordoniv6779 What about a Russian Bear? 😂
Uhm Teddy was leader of the Rough Riders...
He was named Teddy because he didn't want to shoot a baited bear...
"from there, the soviets were expected to capitulate"
that conveys a massive misunderstanding of stalin lol, dude was never going to give up like that
Who remembers when a lot of people believed that Russia had more soldiers than any nation had ammo
Some say Russia still believes it. North Korea too
nah, the americans had way too much ammo during ww2, so much that they didnt even knew what to do with it.
And the US can field more troops than the USSR if needed and I got the statistics to prove it
@@ouroboros9348yet you source nothing
russia had a population of 170 million and america had a population of 130 million of WWII by the end of WWII russia lost 29 million people and america lost 400,000 people so by the end of WWII america still had a large amount of its conscript able population left but russia was battered manpower wise also don't forget america also had france, uk, india, and other countries who have relatively large population pools so they could throw bodies at the line aswhell
if it came down to attritional warfare the allies would have beaten russia simply because it would have been meny countries vs 1 battered country and its war torn puppets
Do a What if with Napoleon winning Waterloo (with Davout and Suchet being there), and actually conducting a successful campaign against the allies. I really want more What Ifs with Napoleon. What if Napoleon intervened in Spain rather than Russia? What if Napoleon's Marshalls were successful in Spain? What if Davout HAD been at Leipzig, or what if he HAD been against Wellington in Spain? What if Traflagar was a success for Napoleon?
Then he losses the next one. There was no chance for Napoleon in 1815.
If Napoleon had won at Waterloo, he would be bum f*cked at a later date, at a different locale by the coalition.
The French just couldn't sustain a war against the rest of Europe. Napoleon's only leverages: superior troop quality, organization and strategy have all but wanned in the decade leading to his fall.
Victory at Waterloo means nothing for Napoleon. He would just give himself a chance to fight again where he would inevitably lose.
Napoleon did intervene in Spain, that is where guerilla warfare as a doctrine started and was a major defeat for Napoleon...
Your animation style actually goes so hard please don’t quit 🔥🔥🔥
I like how everyone in the comments think this is hoi4 and both sides are going to fight to thr bitter end. The soviets would be the only ones willing to do that and after atomic weaponry and radiation side effects, stalin would have no problem at all using chemical weapons.
The Soviets had absolutely no manpower reserves left whatsoever so I can see Stalin throwing in the towel after the nukes are dropped
Remember this war would be a war over Europe not a war for the very survival of the Slavic people like the Great Patriotic War was
However, with the US continuously making and deploying nuclear weapons, eventually they would be unable to continue fighting as their armies would all just be destroyed. Plus total allied superiority at air and sea, no more lend lease, no more raw materials eventually, soviets would literally be unable to continue fighting
This deserves its own series.
The more you think about it and these scenarios, you'd think that we'd be lucky considering what we all have now as a whole in our current world
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, shame on both of us…
If Allies started fighting Soviets in July, Soviets would not declare war to Japan and Japan would not surrender so soon to Allies.
The Soviets would probably even allied with Japan and open a second front in China
Yeah, why wouldn't they wait until the matter of Japan has been wrapped up?
The video doesn't even mention Japan in Scenario A and B, kind of a big "plothole". Of course Japan wouldn't surrender under these conditions, especially with the nukes being deployed in Europe.
@@enbeeyo wait, the nuke that hit St. Petersburg is the Fat Man? Do Allies just ignore Japan? The scenario got even more stupid.
Japan wasn’t a threat at the time
Churchill: I got GREAT idea, guys!
Truman: Winston, how much have you had to drink today?
Huge fan of the whole illustrated background thing behind you.
When the enemy of your enemy is your friend. Then becomes the enemy. How convenient .
It would be a hell of a case in the Balkans with Greece standing alone and Turkey getting tangled into this since they joined on the side of the Allies. Greece would fight a Soviet Invasion and a Civil War while Turkey would have to choose very quickly to either side with USA-UK and fight along or join the USSR and change sides.
My guy is getting into alternate history now? Let’s goooo!
20:30 - A US Invasion against the SU wouldn’t have been that far from reality, we had a program in Alaska at that time called “Operation Hula” to equip and train Soviet sailors and army members with US built landing craft. We could have moved many more there, and our navy would ensure that Japan wouldn’t have been able to do much.
Those same sailors almost had a disaster in Shumshu...
I love the ultra wide support on these videos! Finally, a UA-camr that isn't just an armchair historian, but also a gentleman!
An alt history "a suprise to be sure. But a welcome one" -some old guy
When World Tension is still 100%
I think that he is overlooking the air supremacy that the allies would have had. The soviets had enjoyed air superiority or at least parity for the past 3 years and would have been completely unprepared for zero air support and constant bombing.
The irony of Germany repeatedly warning that the Soviets were a threat to Europe, for Churchill to go out of his way to defeat Germany (allegedly in support of Poland) and then bowing to Stalin at almost every turn isn't lost on me. Even more so when he came up with this.
The irony of Germany repeatedly warning that the Soviets were a threat to Europe, while actually be the greatest threat to Europe isn't lost to anyone.
@@BigBoi678 morning Winston!
"We defeated the wrong enemy" - Patton
@@BigBoi678 Then thr soviets occupied half of europe and put up puppet regimes and exiled the acting governemts of said countries. Almost like there was truth to the german's insane ramblings at the time. They were not better just had better pr because of the war.
@@BigBoi678 havent had your mirning gin yet, winnie?
Drawing up a plan of a preemptive strike because you didn't like what YOUR ALLY said at a conference is crazy
It's a bit ridiculous to suggest things were as simplified as that. :/
@maynardburger usually the most simple answers are the correct ones
Loved this one ❤
Great work guys
world: yay the war is over in europe
Churchil: Oil up boys we are invading the soviets
There are no words to describe how much I have look forward to a video like this before
In the second scenario I doubt the Soviets would make peace after both atomic bombs are dropped simply due to them being dropped on Germany. I'd say the Red Army would fight on and eventually a third bomb (once developed) dropped on Kyiv, Krasnodar or Baku
would finally "encourage" Stalin to negotiate.
Now another "What If" scenario: What if the UK and France declared war on the USSR on September 17th 1939 and the second world war devolved into a three way fight
How'd american bombers would be able to reach so deep into Soviet territory, though?
Declaration of war on USSR by allies in 1939 would result in Germany not declaring one on soviets, duh. Allies would lose, horribly.
I find the idea of the Soviets not only repelling the western Allied invasion but also pushing them back past the original lines absurd. Sure they managed to recover from the relatively well from the worst times of the war but that doesn't mean they weren't severely hurting.
Exactly. People really tend to forget US and Allied air power had absolutely domination. The Red Air Force was struggling with a broken Luftwaffe. Granted it would be a tough fight, but trust and believe we would’ve won the air campaign.
Basically this is what if Churchill did a General Shepherd and "Tied up his loose ends"
One thing that I'm glad I saw in this scenario that is often left out is the civilian support or even soldier morale. Any side that chose to invade the other would almost immediately see the attack backfire. For the past 4 years the people saw the other side as an ally and were exposed to continuous propaganda telling them that that is the case. An invasion like this from either side would instantly cause demonstartions and loose all public support. Partisan activity would bog down supply lines on both sides. If the Soviets invaded their supply lines would be consistently terrorized by the Polish and Baltic fighters and if the allies invaded their supply lines would be terrorized by the former French resistance members (most of the French resistance fighters were leftists and a good chunk were extremists and pro soviet, French resistance only trully begins with operation Barbarosa). If the former Nazi soldiers were to be conscripted it would cause even more civilian disapproval and mutiny among the soldiers (how would jewish americans/brits feel fighting alongside former SS?), this is also the time people were just finding out about the externination camps so rehabilitation of the Nazis would be a disaster. For crying out loud the US only joined the war once they were attacked and the UK saw student demonstartions for peace with Hitler (before the blitzkrieg started). Overall continuing the war once the Nazis are defeted would be a disaster for either side.
I have a other scenario is when all the troops from all side refuse to attack each other as they had defeated the nazi together and so the army from all side disobey the orders and so the united state and the UK is force to cancel the operation unthinkable
Unlikely, there's was minimal joint operation or camaraderie between the West and the Soviets on the ground, the real rejection came from the western civilians and American government, (the outcome we actually got) the American public never wanted in the war to begin with and FDR preferred the reds over the redcoats.
@@MarikHavair
really, ... how ?
@@artiarora-n6eit’s true fdr was a bit of a twat in that regard
This makes me very glad that none of these scenario's came about. Great video.
Gotta admit, this may be the best WW2 alternate history thus far. Principally because of THREE scenarios, all tackled with a sense of fact with the accompanying animation and fairly in depth within the allotted time. Well done kind sirs. Well done INDEED!
The War to start another war🪖
I LOVE THIS ALTERNATIVE HISTRY APPROACH! Keep it up I love your content even more! (In the most sincere kind way possible)
And suddenly, in the 21st century, Operation Unthinkable becomes Operation Inevitable Reality
This channel is one of the reason I don't watch TV anymore❤❤❤❤❤
Absolutely amazing production. The music, the sound effects the drawings. Really good
I like how all three senarios completely ignore overwhelming air superiority
No they don't.
@@bobsemple9341 pathetic
well the 2nd one doesn’t, but i have no idea why he didn’t mention them at all in the other scenario. he goes on about soviet artillery when it was only useful for initial mass barrages whereas allied artillery and air power were much more developed and advanced
@@DavidNaval no proof for this claims obviously? Your types don't like those
@@bobsemple9341 you act as if i can provide documents and sources over youtube comments, the allies would very obviously gain air superiority over the soviets, a source is not needed to come to this conclusion and you know it
Amazing video guys, true to your art style, and giving some genuine postulations on what may have happened...given the entire cold war was basically prepping for effectively what you've shown here, but with more nukes, it's morbidly fascinating (what cold war analysis isn't?) to consider what may have happened in these earlier phases, post the Soviets building their own Bomb.
Stellar work as always
This “what if” questions are a reason why I’ve stopped watching kurzgesagt couple of years ago. They moved away from scientifically proven topics to purely theoretical what ifs and thats very repulsive to watch. Please don’t turn this channel into that.
@@DP-rt3ph why are you tweaking over speculation you only find greater knowledge by steping into the unknown deep end. You use known knowns to figure out known unknowns
8:01 ....wait ...are we the baddies?
Read the triumph of evil.