The Ballad of the Edmund Fitzgerald at the end brought back a flood of memories from that year. My Mom and stepdad and neighbors talked about it for the entire fall and winter that year and we even talked aboit it when we went camping the following summer. Rest in peace my fellow sailors. Rest in peace.
"Haunting" is the right word. At ten years old, upon its release, I became captivated and remember buying the 45. I played that record again and again, imagining what it must've been like on board.
The cause of this tragedy needs to be changed. It was not the fault of those brave men. It was the fault of the company who directed them to carry more than they should have. This is probably one of the best explanations for what happened.
I'm born and raised in michigan and it still amazing everytime I see one on the great lakes. With the mackinac bridge it gets so bad with the wind they will offer an escort car or even shut the bridge down cause it gets so bad. They have had cars get blown off in the past. I consider Lake michigan and lake superior the fresh water Bering sea especially October-march you never know what weather you will get and you can get some monster waves out of nowhere. Beautiful but need to respect them and the water is always freezing
@@Als-lb5kb you are right about that bridge, I’ve driven over it, walked it, flown over it , patrolled under it and it made me nervous each time. I don’t know about Lake Michigan, that’s located south of Superior and Huron, but Superior, the St Mary’s River and Huron, the water is freezing year round. The only water colder is the North Pacific but my children swam in both areas, children will swim any chance they get, they don’t care how cold the water is 😂
@@sub-zero710depends on where youre at. Southern lake Michigan can get warm, same with Lake Erie, Huron and Ontario. Superior on the other hand is known as the "lake that doesnt give up her dead" because its so cold, the bacteria that decays human flesh cant form
@@sub-zero710 Compared to most inland lakes...its "freezing" (not in the true sense of the word). I've swam in Superior in Early September and it was dam cold.
Superior is the coldest and deepest great lakes. Infact they do shut down the Mackinaw Bridge when the wind gets to high vehicles will blow off and go straight down into the water.
What people don't realize about the Fitz is that she was 729' long and sank in 500 feet of water. There's about 200' of hull that is missing and an impact trench under the bow. She ran aground at 6 fathom shoal. Started taking on water. Then she was driven under by two rogue waves that ran stern to bow. The crew probably didn't even realize it was over until the bow hit bottom. At that point, there was still about 150' of stern sticking out of the water. The mid-part of the hull collapsed and disintegrated under the weight. The screw kept turning until the stern flipped over and landed on the bottom. That is the most realistic sequence of events.
The wheel house crew wouldn't have known they were done for untill the windows imploded . When they bow took the plunge they probably expected that the bow would have popped back up as usual untill the windows imploded and the water came rushing in .
@adamwatson6916 Agreed. It had to have happened very quickly. Even if she broke up on the surface, I feel like there would have been time for a "mayday" over the radio.
If you don’t live near the Great Lakes you can’t understand the sheer power these lakes old. Most people hear “Lake” and think how bad can a lake wave be? Lake Michigan scares the crap out of me due to its riptides and even the power of mild waves. Lake Huron and Lake Erie are a bit calmer but you can NEVER underestimate the Great Lakes. They act far more like oceans than lakes.
@ I vacationed near Lake Michigan. That lake scares the crap out of me. Superior is beautiful in the summer if it’s calm and Huron is my favorite even with its waves.
And COLD ! I've never been able to be in that cold lake Superior water in Duluth, MN for more than a few minutes , even in the hot month of August. I think they say that lake Superior never gets above 45 degree's in Temp.
The loss of this ship is one situation that even my vivid imagination can't give me an adequate mental image of the last few minutes that the crew experienced. I'm very thankful of that!
REALLY GREAT documentary! Although we often acquiesce that the gales of November came early, it really comes down to one universal truth: The awesome power of nature doesn't tire, doesn't stop, doesn't feel.
And, in some cases, shows no mercy. I am a storm spotter for the NWS and I respect the big storms we sometimes have to deal with. They will give me clues it's time to go.When they do that it's called "bye,bye!" I remember that storm when it blew through the Twin Cities that was a horrible storm.
This theory makes the most sense of what happened to the Fitzgerald. I never thought it was because of hatch holds. Great detective work, guys. Rest in peace to all the souls lost from all disasters!
Good grief! I was stationed at Coast Guard Base Sault Ste Marie, there is a freighter next to the base, the Valley Camp, turned into a museum. In the bottom of her, there are items from the Edmond Fitzgerald, a marker buoy and one of her lifeboats. Both those items were crushed and twisted, the lifeboat looked like someone squished it then pulled back out and twisted it. Water is a powerful force that can literally destroy anything in its way.
@@TheMainLead It makes all the sense in the world. There was no way those boats were ever going to be launched in those seas, and they weren’t. During the wreck, those two boats were probably dragged under still attached to their davits. The water pressure and violence of the seas tore them loose but it’s likely they were dragged under still attached to their lines, twisting and trailing the boat as she went under. Expedition '94 located a knotted line or rope draped over the propeller shoe and leading into the hub of the 19-foot (diameter) four blade propeller. Speculation is that the line came from one of the lifeboats, where it was stored for use by sailors as a means of climbing aboard. That is a good indicator that the lifeboats may have been pulled into the still churning prop as she went down, chopped up by her blades, and spit out in the condition they were found. We’ll never know for sure, but if you’ve been there and seen those boats, you would see that it makes a lot of sense.
@@jetcat132lifeboat 1 was found NE of Caribou. It came off earlier and was banging against the Fitz and someone may have thought to cut it lose but were told not to go outside.
@@jetcat132 I have always wondered if it was not the wave itself that damaged the lifeboat. It was held securely in place and with multiple tons of water pouring down on it, it could have been crushed and split as the damage shows. Anderson even had a lifeboat damaged by waves. It does not seem likely to me that the damage was done by the screw. I would like to see more study done on that.
I've been in parhs of tornadoes, and hurricanes ,so not many storms make me nervous. The remainder of the storm came through central/upstate ny. That storm had a sound, a feel,that was undesirable ,also a life-force, a mind of its own,alive somehow
I was honored to meet Dennis Hale the evening of the 25th anniversary of the Fitzgerald sinking at a small gathering in Paradise (Mich.). Very humble, friendly man. R.I.P. Dennis.
It’s interesting they mentioned the Cuyahoga when her sister ship the Michipicoten suffered a hull failure (13ft crack) this summer on June 10th 2024. THUNDER BAY - A massive crack has been found in the hull of the Michipicoten, the ship that limped into Thunder Bay on the weekend after water started pouring into it on Lake Superior. Divers have found a four-metre-long crack during an underwater inspection conducted at Keefer Terminal, where the vessel is now tied up. "This appears to be a result of fatigue/structural failure," a spokesperson for the Transportation Safety Board of Canada told TBnewswatch in an email Monday.
Born and Raised in Pontiac, Edmund Fitzgerald hit the bottom. The waves were so high and the water was so shallow, that when she smacked down she sunk further than the water that remained. The Bow crashed into the lake bed and the stern folded overtop. They didnt even know what happened
I've researched the Edmund Fitzgerald for many years, and to this day I believe that the Edmund Fitzgerald was struck by a rogue wave because when I look at the wreck, I see damage from waves from the storm. I know what it's like to be in a huge storm. I grew up living next to the ocean here in Alaska and I've been in a storm. The storm I was in happened in 2007 and I was only 16 years old at the time. My dad and I went camping with some friends of ours behind some islands in Alaska known as the Chiswell Islands. At the time we were using my dad's landing craft her name was Janet May. A day after we left port a radio report came in about a huge storm in our path. We were looking at 16-foot to 25-foot-tall waves with hurricane-force winds up to 72 mph. it was a really bad storm. So, my dad had a choice to make either way hang out there for a few days till it calms down or I would say the heck with it and drive right through it. And of course, my dad chose to drive right through the storm, and by a miracle, we made it home. We did lose the radio antenna, but it was all worth it to get back home. The reason why my dad wanted to drive right through the storm is because at the time we had 200 pounds of fish on board. We didn't want it to let it spoil and feed to the birds. We wanted to go back home and make a bunch of good meals out of it.
I firmly believe that conditions aboard the Edmund Fitzgerald were far more dire than they alluded to….the “hot mic” moment of Capt. McSorely admonishing the officers to “don’t let anyone out on deck” overheard by the Arthur M. Anderson, plus the discovery of one of the pilot house doors being dogged OPEN. No one in their right mind would want to face the full fury of a November gale on Lake Superior unless things were looking pretty grim aboard the ship. Had the rogue waves/3 sisters that hit the Anderson NOT hit the Fitzgerald? I believe they MIGHT’VE made Whitefish Bay, but not much further past Whitefish Point before having to beach the ship.
The body found by the bow had a cork life jacket on so it seems they knew things were bad enough that they should put their life jackets on .. Makes you wonder if their were orher crew members who jumped into the water . It's also possible that with the door dogged open that some of the wheel house crew could have been washed out that door when the windows imploded
taconite absorbs water and will retain most of its moisture content. they were hualing their max wet weight when they left the dock, it weighed almost twice as much as it did empty, once a ship exceeds its displacement its basically bound to fail. every ship has an exact thresh hold.
Good sound effects, hearing Gordon Lightfoot for the millionth time, all the usual suspects ripping on each other's opinion, this is another great Fitzgerald video worthy of a special film acadamy award category: best shipwreck video
every convenience store , souvenir knick knack shop surrounding the Great Lakes sells shipwreck/, ghost stories publications. The Fitz is still a money maker.
I believe that one of the air vents on the deck, near the bow, broke off and opened a 3ft wide hole on the deck. This allow large amounts of water to flow into the ship with every wave that washed over the decks and made the ship heavy to the bow. Then a rogue wave hit the stern of the ship, raising the stern up and the bow down, Because of the extra weight of the water the bow went under water and the forward motion of the ship drove the bow to the bottom. This would have happened so fast the crew wouldn't be able to send a mayday. The bow could have hit the bottom when the stern was still at the surface. When the bow hit the bottom and stopped something had to give at that would be the mid section that looks like it blew up. I doubt a surface break up because the two halves ended up so close together on the bottom. A surface breakup would have had the 2 halves floating and sinking at different rates and the 2 halves would have ended up farther apart, like the Titanic.
The engine turning at full speed, torque twisted the Fitzgerald , ripped and shredded the middle third of that shakey old tub with the bow planted in the mud
The pumps could have kept up with a 3 foot hole in the deck so I doubt that is case. It is more likely that she ran aground at 6 fathom shoal and broke her back. It was only a matter of time after that point. The rogue waves just accelerated the process.
A few years ago I didn’t really know much on it, until I started watching a webcam off the Great Lakes. I had heard the song many times, but being in Texas didn’t really know what the song meant. Someone on the anniversary gave an account of their story on the chat and it was very interesting. Now when I can I like to watch/listen to things on the Fitzgerald.
We will probably never know with absolute certainty why the Edmund Fitzgerald went down. I have always thought that she hit bottom on six fathom Shoal.
But we know now that 6 was a halfass zero of 10 .. So it definitely never came close to the bottom. There isn’t 6 fathoms with miles of reported strike area or path it took. I think it partially broke on the surface. They could reverse engineer the placement and bending of metal to determine. If we could figure out the titanic this should be much easier
@maegenyoungs2591 look if it broke apart on the surface the wreckage would been further spread apart then it was it was overloaded riding about 4ft lower than it should have been she had strike bottom because how do explain fence railings down and vents missing
@@robertredmon6387 Well considering the ore from the rear half dumped on the front half. I doubt your version of events are not seeing everything. Look at the rendering. The hatches are still on the front half and covered in or. That could only happen if the front went down first and the rear half turned over above the front half and managed to miss the front on way down. There is no way that is going to go down, turn over completely submerged in 500 feet of water.. It happened on the surface.. just because Anderson didn’t see it happen doesn’t mean it didn’t take a minute to disappear. The front probably stuffed and stayed braking the back because the center was lifted by a wave. And was still connected on the hill on one side causing it to pull one side down making it roll. The evidence supports that. But I wasn’t there. So it is just an opinion. The crazy part is of all long liners. None have a wreck site similar to the Fits J..
I personally know the captain who was on the only other ship close to the Edmund Fitzgerald that fateful night in November. His name is Errol Boyd. Errol is now in his mid 80’s. He has recounted his recollection of that terrifying night to me many times. He said he was sure his ship was going to founder too. I seem to recall that Errol did receive an SOS call from the Edmund Fitzgerald because he cries every time. He knew his ship was also possibly go down too and he could do nothing to save the crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald. I live in Collingwood Ontario on Georgian Bay. Collingwood was a ship building town and my uncle, Morley Ford, was Chief Engineer of the Collingwood shipyards. My mother worked in the payroll office there. Gordon Lightfoot immortalized this story in his famous song. I know first hand of these horrific storms on the Great Lakes. Thank you.
If he had received an SOS call from the Firz the Anderson would have gotten the Sos as well as the Anderson was the closest ship to the Fitz and the Anderson was in regular contract with the Fitz every frew minutes. An SOS call doesn't just go out to one ship . An SOS would be part of the record and would have been made known during the Investigation. There was no SOS call and this is the first time anyone has ever mentioned an SOS call . I think you are mis remembering what you were told . An SOS call would have been mentioned in the inquiry . The coast guards would have gotten an SOS and the Anderson definitely would have gotten it . The Fitz would have called the Anderson . The last radio transmission from the Fitz was too the Anderson 10 minutes before it went down . The Fitz had lost its radar and needed the Anderson the help the Fitz Navigate so the Fitz had no way of knowing what other ships were in the area other than the Anderson . The Fitz had slowed down so that the Anderson could catch up and the Anderson could see the Fitz lights so there is no way the Anderson doesn't get a call from the Fitz . There would also have been an audio record of any SOS .. There has never been any mention of any SOS call .
Eerie that one of the ships used in the documentary is the Michipicoten. Some have postulated that the Fitz suffered a similar stress fracture and given the rougher seas finally just went down, while the Michi was able to survive due to smooth seas. I'm certainly NOT an expert, but I've heard experts speak about this topic, including one who's been down to the wreck. He wisely states that no one will no for sure. But he points to the fact that if the ship went down nose first before breaking apart, there would be expected to be a large amount of taconite in the bow cargo holds from all the cargo rushing forward, and there isn't.
I think her keel broke with the first rouge wave and the second lifted her stern and flipped it over. If she took a nose dive in one piece the piolet house would probably have been blown off the ship. Plus that much weight sliding forward and hitting the bottom the bow of the ship would be unidentifiable. It would make sense if that happened because the cargo rapidly sliding out of the bow section would create a suction and compress the hatch seals, allowing the clamps to unlatch. Plus this would explain the taconite piled on top of the bow section, as it spilled from the upside down stern section. Whether she bottomed out is a question that has an answer, but is being held back. Some say there was red hull paint on the shoal, but with the reduced free board due to relaxed Coast Guard regulations they don't want that information released. The other issue is a 729' ship doing a nose dive in 530' of water would likely leave her prop out of the water. Recovering her log book, which you would think would have been a priority on the first dives, is now conveniently prohibited. Although any incriminating information would probably have been left out of the log book, because they felt their ship would get them home. The idea that we will never know is hard to believe with technology we have today.
@@charlestorruella8591 If you read, it clearly says "I think" to a normal person this means this is my opinion. To have an opinion does not mean you think you're an expert or a know it all. It simply means by taking in all the available information including talking with guys who worked on her and knew all the issues she had, this is simply the best explanation I can arrive at from all the facts, run along now adults are speaking.
Listening to the young captain talk about the pressures encountered as a ship captain, it seems that the same mindset that has so many times been the UNDOING/DEMISE of 'dispensable' workers, is STILL AT WORK. As always, the 'almighty buck' reigns supreme. When will we ever learn?
What gets me is the captain of the Anderson who also went through the same storm , and even turned back around, went looking for the Fitzgerald said it was rough but manageable had no clue what happened to the Fitzgerald either. We may never really know what actually sank her😓
This was refreshing. There's far more evidence for a breakup on the surface than there is for failures of the crew. Sadly, their names are tarnished. In one sense I certainly can't blame the families for not wanting future dives. They probably think that someone would go down there and substantiate what the CG said in their report. Who knows for sure why its off limits like it is, but I certainly respect and understand it.
We sometimes forget that water is and can be a very powerful and destructive hydraulic force. Stronger than steel, and even rocks can be warn away. I have seen water, used as a hydraulic, cut through a very thick piece of steel. Unbelievable force.
The question is why the (older)Anderson did not go down in the same storm while in the vicinity of the Fitzgerald...seems like the Fitz was loaded too heavy to handle the storm.
The Anderson wasn't abused and overloaded like the Fitz. The Fitz had steel plates Buckle when the ship was launched, indicating bad things to come. It was also neglected and not properly maintained. The Anderson was properly maintained, which is why she's still in operation 72 years later. The metallurgy of the Fitz was found to be inferior, especially for how she was abused. Tie that with the fact her captain said basically, "I don't care about this SOB ship, it just needs to hold together for this last trip." Loosely quoted.
A great documentary show account for what quite possibly happen, great job depicting the events that light up to the demise of the Edmund Fitzgerald. God bless their souls all 29 of them
Water was getting into the holds of the Edmund Fitzgerald. McSorley reported a list and that he was running his bilge pumps. If water was getting into the holds, the taconite would have absorbed a lot of the that water making the bilge pumps less effective as the now saturated cargo would have dangerously overloaded the ship. I believe the Edmund Fitzgerald eventually simply lost buoyancy due to being overloaded, which overturned her on the surface dumping her cargo the flipping effect of which would have instantly killed all hands from these tremendous centrifugal forces. Once the cargo was dropped, she righted herself the force of which caused her to break in half. There is no evidence the hull was breached from shoaling or some other damage, so the only remaining possibility for water getting in the holds is the hatches.
The huge plate covers weren't water tight, those were bolted down, but they probably weren't screwed all the way tight. Big waves, leaking hatches, it's over. Gordon's amazing song made this famous throughout the world.
News flash Gordon Lightfoot wrote his song after reading a Newsweek article that came out before the ship was found they were only surmising what could have happened went down with the ship.
They knew a storm was coming when they left Superior, so they DEFINITELY would have secured the hatch clamps tight. And their first mate, John McCarthy was a stickler for those kinds of things so no doubt in my mind, the hatch clamps were all on and all tightened down.
There must have been some serious problems with the Edmund Fitzgerald the day that she sank. Consider that the Arthur M. Anderson sailed on the lake the same day, through the same storm in the same conditions and did not sink. Also, the Anderson didn't lose her radars, didn't have her fence railings break, and didn't ship water. Also, the Anderson was an older ship than the Fitzgerald, and so would have probably not been as good condition as Fitzgerald (although her earlier 1975 rebuilding which added 120 feet to her length may have also had been used to give her a general overhaul which the Fitzgerald may not have had).
I like to think how she went down was she hit a wave that pushed her up wrecking her slightly damaging her, and when she crashed right down she broke her back breaking her apart before she sank in a way similar to a V break
This documentary has some irony within it… Interviewing the captain of the Michipicoten which had a 13’ stress fracture in her bottom to cause her to take on massive amounts of water this past summer. She was able to sail with a list to Thunder Bay, Ontario for a temporary patch. The Mich then sailed to Superior, WI for permanent repairs. Same construction as the Fitz…
The Fitz was taking on water and had a substantial list .it had a fence rail down . 2 vent covers were missing . The missing vent covers were in the area above a ballast tank
If the 1994 expedition to the wreck site is accurate, the Bow of the Fitzgerald is technically in USA waters. Fitzgerald crewman Ralph Walton's nephew Darryl Walton, himself a great lakes captain, says the log book is probably in the chartroom and could still be somewhat perseved.
Thoroughly enjoyed this fascinating investigation into her sinking. I think it leaves no room for further speculation that the fault of her foundering lay at the feet of Lake Superior, not her crew ✝️
Size of vessel, I suppose, but not even remotely comparable in terms of loss of life - the Fitzgerald had a crew of 29. The Eastland disaster is more like the Titanic in loss of life (844 to 915, depending on source). That incident happened on the Chicago River, right at the pier. If you extend the reach to the St. Lawrence River, the Empress of Ireland (1012) would be comparable, sinking quickly after a collision in heavy fog.
Many years of overloading and overspeeding caused stress fractures. It filled up then submerged just like a submarine then hit bottom and broke in two.
The family members making this a memorial site was a complete injustice to the men who died… They sold them out, so it would never be investigated properly.. That old bat, that was related, was the voice of the family’s.. and convinced them to settle And not sue, for a fixed amount…
#1. What's with all of the meter and kilometer talk?? #2. Spraying water at a hatch doesn't take its account of the flexing and twisting the ship was doing at the time.
I was briefly a cadet at the maritime academy but between the bullying by other cadets and the poor academic at NMC I had to quit there is a hole in my soul I love ships the water and a quiet life it offers
In May of 2023 Gordon Lightfoot passed away on May 1st, 2023. That following day May 2nd, 2023, the Mariners Church, the families approved of this of course, the bell was rang again 29 times for the crew of the Fitz and one additional time for Lightfoot. He synonymous with the Edmund Fitzgerald due to the song he wrote about its sinking.
I can't say if I think it broke on the surface or bottom. Both are possible. But I believe it was a combination of things that sank her. Invited by constant overloading and a weakened, vulnerable hull. Obvious by the broken fence rail. Prior to sinking.
Great film. Still one question not really addressed: why was she taking on water and listing when overcome by the rogue waves? I think it’s because she hit the reef.
But Canadas cost guard right after the tragedy went to the spot the Fitzgerald supposedly hit and saw no broken rocks or red paint marks. Possible Fitzgerald did have a design flaw as mentioned by former Fitzgerald crewmen Richard Orgel and Red Burgner who said the Fitzgerald flexed unusually much in bad weather. The Fitzgeralds exact sister ship was scrapped despite having millions of dollars spent on lengthening her just a few years prior.
You know, we actually do what happened. Once again man, rolled the dice with mother nature, once again we lost. I was 16 when this tragedy struck, it saddened me greatly as I live close to a port town and I had a lot of friends who worked the lakes. Let me tell you, they had a lot of frightening stories to regale. There are many tales of the lakes that we will never know about except for where the graves of the men are. RIP
….and all that remains are the faces and the names….. Ernest McSorley - Captain John McCarthy - First mate James Pratt - Second mate Michael Armagost - Third mate David Weiss - Cadet Ransom Cundy - Watchman Karl Peckol - Watchman William Spengler - Watchman John Simmons - Senior wheelman Eugene O’Brien - Wheelman John Poviach - Wheelman Paul Riippa - Deckhand Mark Thomas - Deckhand Bruce Hudson - Deckhand George Holl - Chief engineer Edward Bindon - First assistant engineer Thomas Edwards - Second assistant engineer Russell Haskell - Second assistant engineer Oliver Champeau - Third assistant engineer Ralph Walton - Oiler Blaine Wilhelm - Oiler Thomas Bentsen - Oiler Gordon MacLellan - Wiper Robert Rafferty - Steward Allen Kalmon - Second cook Joseph Mazes - Special maintenance Thomas Borgeson - Maintenance man Frederick Beetcher - Porter Nolan Church - Porter 🫡
We need to recover the log book for some answers.. The middle of the ship broke up I think she bottomed out at 6 Fathom shoal.. Diving isn’t allowed grave yard or not people want answers.
The fact the SS Arthur B Homer the exact sister ship of the Fitzgerald was scrapped a decade after the Fitzgerald loss despite many millions of dollars spent to lengthen her just a few years prior, leads me to believe stress/hull failure is a factor. Former Fitzgerald crewman Richard Orgel and Red Burgner testified Fitzgerald's hull was "wiggling" too much in bad weather. Even saying Captain McSorley himself called it the "wiggling thing" and was frightened by it sometimes. Maybe the Lake Fleets deep down knew there likely was a design flaw, and so nobody bought The Arthur B Homer and they quietly scrapped the Homer blaming the economy. yet older, slower vessels with smaller cargo capacity were still sailing. But who knows? (Shrug)
I know that this video isn't the end all beat all but it definitely opens the door to the possibility of the fact that it was the fault of the crew. As usual, this appears to be just one more situation of corporate greed and overloading the capacity of the Edmund Fitzgerald and an unpredictable storm to rip this ship in half and, horrifically, sink and kill 29 souls. Yes, I know stuff happens but overloading this freighter at that particular time of year knowing the potential weather history . . .🤔 Sad doesn't describe this wreck. Should've never happened and the families of the crew more than likely were screwed by the system!
22:36 Two men aiming a hose at the ship's hatch, however high pressure that hose, does not replicate the force of the waves during an extreme storm! Their experiment is a joke.
If the Fitz broke up on the surface it would be the only instance of a *loaded* freighter breaking up on the surface, to my knowledge. Many frieghters riding in ballast have succumbed to hull fractures.
Interesting fact. The Michipocotin which is featured in this video suffered a catastrophic structure failure this year and started sinking in Lake Superior. They only made it to safe-harbor by the skin of their teeth.
If 1994 expedition to the Wreck is accurate, the Bow section is actually in USA waters. Not Canada. Regardless people hundreds of years from now are likely diving to the Fitzgerald.
I think the comparison comes from the size. When the Titanic debuted, it was the largest passenger ship at the time. When the Fitz was around, it was the largest freight ship on the great lakes.
When you think of a ship sinking in the ocean what’s your first thought? Mines probably titanic. What’s your first thought of a ship sinking in the Great Lakes? Mines the Fitzgerald for sure.
Hubris. The company tried to maximize income by extending her length, the captain decided to make one more trip instead of retiring as planned, then not only did he decide to leave despite weather warnings but also to race the Anderson!
The lake at that location is 530 feet deep. The Fitzgerald was 738 feet long. Rogue wave could have driven it right down to stick it in the mud and broke it in half.
I do not believe that the men of the Fitzgerald neglected the hatch covers. They knew the dangers and would not have made such an error. The fact that people tried to blame this crew for the loss of the ship is Shameful.
I am reading the US Coastguard report right now. It seems that this documentary is not reporting the findings correctly. The report on the hatch covers blames the ship operator for not having proper procedures in place for the maintenance of the hatch covers. There is also a huge amount of the ship missing. And that the damage was probably more severe than the captain indicated. The report clearly states that the ship broke up as it sank or that is broke up hitting the bottom. All of this is misrepresented in the documentary.
The ship obviously had suffered a stress fracture and was flooding there is no doubt about that . If that was true how do you explain the two collapsed hatch covers behind the wheelhouse ? I belive large waves ran up the deck piling up behind the wheelhouse collapsing these hatch covers, thousands of gallons of water rushed in sending the fitz to the bottom. If she broke up on the surface the hold would have been filled with water, and there would be no reason for the hatch covers to be collapsed inside the hold.
ARE YOU MAD ABOUT IT OR DO YOU GET TO ENJOY CHEAPER FOOD CHEAPER GAS AND CHEAPER LIVING BECAUSE POEPLE LIKE DIED FOR IT YET YOU ACT LIKE IT BOTHERS YOU
I went on a tour in a museum on Lake Superior (?) where I was, said that most of the sinking of ships on the lake were caused by greed. When you bet and win 🏆 you or others get rich, when you lose we get tragedy. The storm was definitely a factor in the sinking. None of the crew did any betting. GOD have Mercy, on us all. 🙏
they are missing a contributing factor from Captain Cooper. he said the Fitzgerald come across a shallow shoal. he thinks they bottomed out on that shoal combined with the rough waves. it makes sense by your own evidence.
Part of the story is the mystery of what exactly happened. A tragedy. A reminder that humans are not omnipotent.GOD Bless the men who died and their friends, & family. 😇 🙏 😢
It seems like the crew always gets blamed whether it’s a plane crash or a shipwreck. Seems like someone is trying to deflect responsibility. It couldn’t possibly be poor engineering or poor maintenance.
The sister ship was long ago scrapped because it was no longer seaworthy, the Fitz was a poorly designed and built with subpar maintenance during her life. The Anderson which went back out to look for her was built before the Fitz, is still sailing.
it is better than the Carl D. or Daniel J. Morrell that had keels that couldn't flex in the big waves, both sank after stress broke their backs in bad weather
Former Fitzgerald crew Richard Orgel and Red Burgner testified that the Fitzgerald flexed unusually much in bad weather and McSorley himself called it the "Wiggling thing". In Captain Coppers his interview he said "hull failure or bottoming out" he did mention both. But he did personally leaned towards bottoming out. But he didn't rule out hull failure either. The Arthur B Homer the Fitzgeralds exact sister ship was scrapped despite having millions of dollars spent on lengthening the ship a few years prior. They blamed the economy yet ships with smaller cargo capacity we're still sailing. Maybe the Fitzgerald did have a design flaw?
The Ballad of the Edmund Fitzgerald at the end brought back a flood of memories from that year. My Mom and stepdad and neighbors talked about it for the entire fall and winter that year and we even talked aboit it when we went camping the following summer. Rest in peace my fellow sailors. Rest in peace.
Was just about to comment the same thing. Great close to the video.
Gordon Lightfoot's narration of the Fitzgerald sends chills through me - it is a haunting song.
"Haunting" is the right word. At ten years old, upon its release, I became captivated and remember buying the 45. I played that record again and again, imagining what it must've been like on board.
The cause of this tragedy needs to be changed. It was not the fault of those brave men. It was the fault of the company who directed them to carry more than they should have. This is probably one of the best explanations for what happened.
@napalmstickylikeglue I heard the Fitz had too much cargo anoard for her design.
I'm born and raised in michigan and it still amazing everytime I see one on the great lakes. With the mackinac bridge it gets so bad with the wind they will offer an escort car or even shut the bridge down cause it gets so bad. They have had cars get blown off in the past. I consider Lake michigan and lake superior the fresh water Bering sea especially October-march you never know what weather you will get and you can get some monster waves out of nowhere. Beautiful but need to respect them and the water is always freezing
That last part is not entirely true. I go swimming in Lake Michigan every 4th of July. How could I do that if the water is always freezing?
@@Als-lb5kb you are right about that bridge, I’ve driven over it, walked it, flown over it , patrolled under it and it made me nervous each time. I don’t know about Lake Michigan, that’s located south of Superior and Huron, but Superior, the St Mary’s River and Huron, the water is freezing year round. The only water colder is the North Pacific but my children swam in both areas, children will swim any chance they get, they don’t care how cold the water is 😂
@@sub-zero710depends on where youre at. Southern lake Michigan can get warm, same with Lake Erie, Huron and Ontario. Superior on the other hand is known as the "lake that doesnt give up her dead" because its so cold, the bacteria that decays human flesh cant form
@@sub-zero710 Compared to most inland lakes...its "freezing" (not in the true sense of the word). I've swam in Superior in Early September and it was dam cold.
Superior is the coldest and deepest great lakes. Infact they do shut down the Mackinaw Bridge when the wind gets to high vehicles will blow off and go straight down into the water.
What people don't realize about the Fitz is that she was 729' long and sank in 500 feet of water. There's about 200' of hull that is missing and an impact trench under the bow. She ran aground at 6 fathom shoal. Started taking on water. Then she was driven under by two rogue waves that ran stern to bow. The crew probably didn't even realize it was over until the bow hit bottom. At that point, there was still about 150' of stern sticking out of the water. The mid-part of the hull collapsed and disintegrated under the weight. The screw kept turning until the stern flipped over and landed on the bottom. That is the most realistic sequence of events.
I agree the documentary producers are covering their A$$
So the rogue waves were 'the straw that broke the camels back'.
@@SUSTHUNDER-i6s essentially. those waves were backed by the captain of the anderson
The wheel house crew wouldn't have known they were done for untill the windows imploded . When they bow took the plunge they probably expected that the bow would have popped back up as usual untill the windows imploded and the water came rushing in .
@adamwatson6916 Agreed. It had to have happened very quickly. Even if she broke up on the surface, I feel like there would have been time for a "mayday" over the radio.
If you don’t live near the Great Lakes you can’t understand the sheer power these lakes old. Most people hear “Lake” and think how bad can a lake wave be? Lake Michigan scares the crap out of me due to its riptides and even the power of mild waves. Lake Huron and Lake Erie are a bit calmer but you can NEVER underestimate the Great Lakes. They act far more like oceans than lakes.
@@Bethlam They're inland seas and Erie is one of the most treacherous because it's shallow and the weather has a greater effect.
I'm born and raised in Superior, WI. I learned early on in life not to mess with Lake Superior. Got caught in a rip tide as a kid.
@ I vacationed near Lake Michigan. That lake scares the crap out of me. Superior is beautiful in the summer if it’s calm and Huron is my favorite even with its waves.
And COLD !
I've never been able to be in that cold lake Superior water in Duluth, MN for more than a few minutes , even in the hot month of August.
I think they say that lake Superior never gets above 45 degree's in Temp.
I grew up in Duluth MN and superior wi! Yes lake Superior is not one to miss judge as she surprises us every day!
The loss of this ship is one situation that even my vivid imagination can't give me an adequate mental image of the last few minutes that the crew experienced. I'm very thankful of that!
REALLY GREAT documentary! Although we often acquiesce that the gales of November came early, it really comes down to one universal truth: The awesome power of nature doesn't tire, doesn't stop, doesn't feel.
Not that deep
And, in some cases, shows no mercy. I am a storm spotter for the NWS and I respect the big storms we sometimes have to deal with. They will give me clues it's time to go.When they do that it's called "bye,bye!" I remember that storm when it blew through the Twin Cities that was a horrible storm.
This theory makes the most sense of what happened to the Fitzgerald. I never thought it was because of hatch holds. Great detective work, guys. Rest in peace to all the souls lost from all disasters!
The Anderson made it. Then went back to look for the crew.
Still a working ship today.
Fitz would of made it to whitefish bay if they had of put 15 more miles behind her 😢
My FIL was on the Anderson that night. He didn't talk about it much.
I have no idea why this story hits me so hard. Maybe because it was one of the first major tragedies I heard about as a kid & the song.
Good grief! I was stationed at Coast Guard Base Sault Ste Marie, there is a freighter next to the base, the Valley Camp, turned into a museum. In the bottom of her, there are items from the Edmond Fitzgerald, a marker buoy and one of her lifeboats. Both those items were crushed and twisted, the lifeboat looked like someone squished it then pulled back out and twisted it. Water is a powerful force that can literally destroy anything in its way.
@@uniform131 I was there last week. It had to have been the Fitzgerald’s prop that chewed up those lifeboats.
@@jetcat132that doesnt make sense. If it was on the surface long enough to get into boats they would have mayday called
@@TheMainLead It makes all the sense in the world. There was no way those boats were ever going to be launched in those seas, and they weren’t. During the wreck, those two boats were probably dragged under still attached to their davits. The water pressure and violence of the seas tore them loose but it’s likely they were dragged under still attached to their lines, twisting and trailing the boat as she went under.
Expedition '94 located a knotted line or rope draped over the propeller shoe and leading into the hub of the 19-foot (diameter) four blade propeller. Speculation is that the line came from one of the lifeboats, where it was stored for use by sailors as a means of climbing aboard. That is a good indicator that the lifeboats may have been pulled into the still churning prop as she went down, chopped up by her blades, and spit out in the condition they were found.
We’ll never know for sure, but if you’ve been there and seen those boats, you would see that it makes a lot of sense.
@@jetcat132lifeboat 1 was found NE of Caribou. It came off earlier and was banging against the Fitz and someone may have thought to cut it lose but were told not to go outside.
@@jetcat132 I have always wondered if it was not the wave itself that damaged the lifeboat. It was held securely in place and with multiple tons of water pouring down on it, it could have been crushed and split as the damage shows. Anderson even had a lifeboat damaged by waves. It does not seem likely to me that the damage was done by the screw. I would like to see more study done on that.
I've been in parhs of tornadoes, and hurricanes ,so not many storms make me nervous. The remainder of the storm came through central/upstate ny. That storm had a sound, a feel,that was undesirable ,also a life-force, a mind of its own,alive somehow
I was honored to meet Dennis Hale the evening of the 25th anniversary of the Fitzgerald sinking at a small gathering in Paradise (Mich.). Very humble, friendly man. R.I.P. Dennis.
It’s interesting they mentioned the Cuyahoga when her sister ship the Michipicoten suffered a hull failure (13ft crack) this summer on June 10th 2024.
THUNDER BAY - A massive crack has been found in the hull of the Michipicoten, the ship that limped into Thunder Bay on the weekend after water started pouring into it on Lake Superior.
Divers have found a four-metre-long crack during an underwater inspection conducted at Keefer Terminal, where the vessel is now tied up.
"This appears to be a result of fatigue/structural failure," a spokesperson for the Transportation Safety Board of Canada told TBnewswatch in an email Monday.
I was 10 years old and living in the Sault, I will never forget that storm!
Born and Raised in Pontiac, Edmund Fitzgerald hit the bottom. The waves were so high and the water was so shallow, that when she smacked down she sunk further than the water that remained. The Bow crashed into the lake bed and the stern folded overtop. They didnt even know what happened
I've researched the Edmund Fitzgerald for many years, and to this day I believe that the Edmund Fitzgerald was struck by a rogue wave because when I look at the wreck, I see damage from waves from the storm. I know what it's like to be in a huge storm. I grew up living next to the ocean here in Alaska and I've been in a storm. The storm I was in happened in 2007 and I was only 16 years old at the time. My dad and I went camping with some friends of ours behind some islands in Alaska known as the Chiswell Islands. At the time we were using my dad's landing craft her name was Janet May. A day after we left port a radio report came in about a huge storm in our path. We were looking at 16-foot to 25-foot-tall waves with hurricane-force winds up to 72 mph. it was a really bad storm. So, my dad had a choice to make either way hang out there for a few days till it calms down or I would say the heck with it and drive right through it. And of course, my dad chose to drive right through the storm, and by a miracle, we made it home. We did lose the radio antenna, but it was all worth it to get back home. The reason why my dad wanted to drive right through the storm is because at the time we had 200 pounds of fish on board. We didn't want it to let it spoil and feed to the birds. We wanted to go back home and make a bunch of good meals out of it.
I firmly believe that conditions aboard the Edmund Fitzgerald were far more dire than they alluded to….the “hot mic” moment of Capt. McSorely admonishing the officers to “don’t let anyone out on deck” overheard by the Arthur M. Anderson, plus the discovery of one of the pilot house doors being dogged OPEN.
No one in their right mind would want to face the full fury of a November gale on Lake Superior unless things were looking pretty grim aboard the ship.
Had the rogue waves/3 sisters that hit the Anderson NOT hit the Fitzgerald? I believe they MIGHT’VE made Whitefish Bay, but not much further past Whitefish Point before having to beach the ship.
The body found by the bow had a cork life jacket on so it seems they knew things were bad enough that they should put their life jackets on ..
Makes you wonder if their were orher crew members who jumped into the water .
It's also possible that with the door dogged open that some of the wheel house crew could have been washed out that door when the windows imploded
taconite absorbs water and will retain most of its moisture content. they were hualing their max wet weight when they left the dock, it weighed almost twice as much as it did empty, once a ship exceeds its displacement its basically bound to fail. every ship has an exact thresh hold.
Good sound effects, hearing Gordon Lightfoot for the millionth time, all the usual suspects ripping on each other's opinion, this is another great Fitzgerald video worthy of a special film acadamy award category: best shipwreck video
every convenience store , souvenir knick knack shop surrounding the Great Lakes sells shipwreck/, ghost stories publications. The Fitz is still a money maker.
I believe that one of the air vents on the deck, near the bow, broke off and opened a 3ft wide hole on the deck. This allow large amounts of water to flow into the ship with every wave that washed over the decks and made the ship heavy to the bow. Then a rogue wave hit the stern of the ship, raising the stern up and the bow down, Because of the extra weight of the water the bow went under water and the forward motion of the ship drove the bow to the bottom. This would have happened so fast the crew wouldn't be able to send a mayday. The bow could have hit the bottom when the stern was still at the surface. When the bow hit the bottom and stopped something had to give at that would be the mid section that looks like it blew up. I doubt a surface break up because the two halves ended up so close together on the bottom. A surface breakup would have had the 2 halves floating and sinking at different rates and the 2 halves would have ended up farther apart, like the Titanic.
The titanic bow and stern are not that far apart when you consider the jews blew it up on the surface and it drifted done almost 3 miles
The engine turning at full speed, torque twisted the Fitzgerald , ripped and shredded the middle third of that shakey old tub with the bow planted in the mud
@@gregobern6084 Which would mean it didn't break apart on the surface.
The pumps could have kept up with a 3 foot hole in the deck so I doubt that is case. It is more likely that she ran aground at 6 fathom shoal and broke her back. It was only a matter of time after that point. The rogue waves just accelerated the process.
33:22 Shortly before the Fitzgerald sank, the Arthur M. Anderson warned the Fitzgerald that three rogue waves were headed their way.
A few years ago I didn’t really know much on it, until I started watching a webcam off the Great Lakes. I had heard the song many times, but being in Texas didn’t really know what the song meant. Someone on the anniversary gave an account of their story on the chat and it was very interesting. Now when I can I like to watch/listen to things on the Fitzgerald.
We will probably never know with absolute certainty why the Edmund Fitzgerald went down. I have always thought that she hit bottom on six fathom Shoal.
But we know now that 6 was a halfass zero of 10 ..
So it definitely never came close to the bottom.
There isn’t 6 fathoms with miles of reported strike area or path it took.
I think it partially broke on the surface.
They could reverse engineer the placement and bending of metal to determine. If we could figure out the titanic this should be much easier
👋👍
@maegenyoungs2591 look if it broke apart on the surface the wreckage would been further spread apart then it was it was overloaded riding about 4ft lower than it should have been she had strike bottom because how do explain fence railings down and vents missing
No sign of contact on the hull or anywhere in that area of the shoal.
@@robertredmon6387
Well considering the ore from the rear half dumped on the front half.
I doubt your version of events are not seeing everything.
Look at the rendering. The hatches are still on the front half and covered in or.
That could only happen if the front went down first and the rear half turned over above the front half and managed to miss the front on way down.
There is no way that is going to go down, turn over completely submerged in 500 feet of water..
It happened on the surface.. just because Anderson didn’t see it happen doesn’t mean it didn’t take a minute to disappear.
The front probably stuffed and stayed braking the back because the center was lifted by a wave. And was still connected on the hill on one side causing it to pull one side down making it roll.
The evidence supports that.
But I wasn’t there. So it is just an opinion.
The crazy part is of all long liners.
None have a wreck site similar to the Fits J..
The bottom line is that the sea will always win.
Nothing is unsinkable
The search never gives up her dead
This is a lake, you dope! 🤣
I bet you're always the first one invited to a party. 🤣
@@HolyGuacamoleanshe always wins too
I personally know the captain who was on the only other ship close to the Edmund Fitzgerald that fateful night in November. His name is Errol Boyd. Errol is now in his mid 80’s. He has recounted his recollection of that terrifying night to me many times. He said he was sure his ship was going to founder too. I seem to recall that Errol did receive an SOS call from the Edmund Fitzgerald because he cries every time. He knew his ship was also possibly go down too and he could do nothing to save the crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald. I live in Collingwood Ontario on Georgian Bay. Collingwood was a ship building town and my uncle, Morley Ford, was Chief Engineer of the Collingwood shipyards. My mother worked in the payroll office there. Gordon Lightfoot immortalized this story in his famous song. I know first hand of these horrific storms on the Great Lakes. Thank you.
If he had received an SOS call from the Firz the Anderson would have gotten the Sos as well as the Anderson was the closest ship to the Fitz and the Anderson was in regular contract with the Fitz every frew minutes. An SOS call doesn't just go out to one ship . An SOS would be part of the record and would have been made known during the Investigation.
There was no SOS call and this is the first time anyone has ever mentioned an SOS call .
I think you are mis remembering what you were told . An SOS call would have been mentioned in the inquiry . The coast guards would have gotten an SOS and the Anderson definitely would have gotten it .
The Fitz would have called the Anderson . The last radio transmission from the Fitz was too the Anderson 10 minutes before it went down .
The Fitz had lost its radar and needed the Anderson the help the Fitz Navigate so the Fitz had no way of knowing what other ships were in the area other than the Anderson . The Fitz had slowed down so that the Anderson could catch up and the Anderson could see the Fitz lights so there is no way the Anderson doesn't get a call from the Fitz . There would also have been an audio record of any SOS .. There has never been any mention of any SOS call .
Eerie that one of the ships used in the documentary is the Michipicoten. Some have postulated that the Fitz suffered a similar stress fracture and given the rougher seas finally just went down, while the Michi was able to survive due to smooth seas.
I'm certainly NOT an expert, but I've heard experts speak about this topic, including one who's been down to the wreck. He wisely states that no one will no for sure. But he points to the fact that if the ship went down nose first before breaking apart, there would be expected to be a large amount of taconite in the bow cargo holds from all the cargo rushing forward, and there isn't.
I think her keel broke with the first rouge wave and the second lifted her stern and flipped it over. If she took a nose dive in one piece the piolet house would probably have been blown off the ship. Plus that much weight sliding forward and hitting the bottom the bow of the ship would be unidentifiable. It would make sense if that happened because the cargo rapidly sliding out of the bow section would create a suction and compress the hatch seals, allowing the clamps to unlatch. Plus this would explain the taconite piled on top of the bow section, as it spilled from the upside down stern section. Whether she bottomed out is a question that has an answer, but is being held back. Some say there was red hull paint on the shoal, but with the reduced free board due to relaxed Coast Guard regulations they don't want that information released. The other issue is a 729' ship doing a nose dive in 530' of water would likely leave her prop out of the water. Recovering her log book, which you would think would have been a priority on the first dives, is now conveniently prohibited. Although any incriminating information would probably have been left out of the log book, because they felt their ship would get them home. The idea that we will never know is hard to believe with technology we have today.
SO YOUR AN EXPERT NOW ARE YOU......REMINDS ME OF A CHILD TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BUT JUST PRETEND
@@charlestorruella8591 If you read, it clearly says "I think" to a normal person this means this is my opinion. To have an opinion does not mean you think you're an expert or a know it all. It simply means by taking in all the available information including talking with guys who worked on her and knew all the issues she had, this is simply the best explanation I can arrive at from all the facts, run along now adults are speaking.
@@charlestorruella8591you literally cannot operate the caps lock button and you are calling other people children 😂
Fellas it's been good to know you.
Listening to the young captain talk about the pressures encountered as a ship captain, it seems that the same mindset that has so many times been the UNDOING/DEMISE of 'dispensable' workers, is STILL AT WORK. As always, the 'almighty buck' reigns supreme. When will we ever learn?
This was an incredible documentary
What gets me is the captain of the Anderson who also went through the same storm , and even turned back around, went looking for the Fitzgerald said it was rough but manageable had no clue what happened to the Fitzgerald either. We may never really know what actually sank her😓
This was refreshing. There's far more evidence for a breakup on the surface than there is for failures of the crew. Sadly, their names are tarnished. In one sense I certainly can't blame the families for not wanting future dives. They probably think that someone would go down there and substantiate what the CG said in their report. Who knows for sure why its off limits like it is, but I certainly respect and understand it.
We sometimes forget that water is and can be a very powerful and destructive hydraulic force. Stronger than steel, and even rocks can be warn away. I have seen water, used as a hydraulic, cut through a very thick piece of steel. Unbelievable force.
The question is why the (older)Anderson did not go down in the same storm while in the vicinity of the Fitzgerald...seems like the Fitz was loaded too heavy to handle the storm.
The Anderson wasn't abused and overloaded like the Fitz. The Fitz had steel plates Buckle when the ship was launched, indicating bad things to come. It was also neglected and not properly maintained. The Anderson was properly maintained, which is why she's still in operation 72 years later. The metallurgy of the Fitz was found to be inferior, especially for how she was abused. Tie that with the fact her captain said basically, "I don't care about this SOB ship, it just needs to hold together for this last trip." Loosely quoted.
A great documentary show account for what quite possibly happen, great job depicting the events that light up to the demise of the Edmund Fitzgerald. God bless their souls all 29 of them
Very well done! I absolutely love great lake ships! What an awesome video!
Water was getting into the holds of the Edmund Fitzgerald. McSorley reported a list and that he was running his bilge pumps. If water was getting into the holds, the taconite would have absorbed a lot of the that water making the bilge pumps less effective as the now saturated cargo would have dangerously overloaded the ship. I believe the Edmund Fitzgerald eventually simply lost buoyancy due to being overloaded, which overturned her on the surface dumping her cargo the flipping effect of which would have instantly killed all hands from these tremendous centrifugal forces. Once the cargo was dropped, she righted herself the force of which caused her to break in half. There is no evidence the hull was breached from shoaling or some other damage, so the only remaining possibility for water getting in the holds is the hatches.
Great video 👋👍
I hate it when something is called the Titanic of the ___ especially when the similarities are almost non existent.
Awesome the bell was recovered❤
The huge plate covers weren't water tight, those were bolted down, but they probably weren't screwed all the way tight. Big waves, leaking hatches, it's over. Gordon's amazing song made this famous throughout the world.
News flash Gordon Lightfoot wrote his song after reading a Newsweek article that came out before the ship was found they were only surmising what could have happened went down with the ship.
They knew a storm was coming when they left Superior, so they DEFINITELY would have secured the hatch clamps tight. And their first mate, John McCarthy was a stickler for those kinds of things so no doubt in my mind, the hatch clamps were all on and all tightened down.
Hatch clamps were not the culprit. That is pretty widely accepted at this point.
There must have been some serious problems with the Edmund Fitzgerald the day that she sank. Consider that the Arthur M. Anderson sailed on the lake the same day, through the same storm in the same conditions and did not sink. Also, the Anderson didn't lose her radars, didn't have her fence railings break, and didn't ship water. Also, the Anderson was an older ship than the Fitzgerald, and so would have probably not been as good condition as Fitzgerald (although her earlier 1975 rebuilding which added 120 feet to her length may have also had been used to give her a general overhaul which the Fitzgerald may not have had).
I like to think how she went down was she hit a wave that pushed her up wrecking her slightly damaging her, and when she crashed right down she broke her back breaking her apart before she sank in a way similar to a V break
This documentary has some irony within it… Interviewing the captain of the Michipicoten which had a 13’ stress fracture in her bottom to cause her to take on massive amounts of water this past summer. She was able to sail with a list to Thunder Bay, Ontario for a temporary patch. The Mich then sailed to Superior, WI for permanent repairs. Same construction as the Fitz…
The Fitz was taking on water and had a substantial list .it had a fence rail down . 2 vent covers were missing . The missing vent covers were in the area above a ballast tank
If the 1994 expedition to the wreck site is accurate, the Bow of the Fitzgerald is technically in USA waters. Fitzgerald crewman Ralph Walton's nephew Darryl Walton, himself a great lakes captain, says the log book is probably in the chartroom and could still be somewhat perseved.
Too many unsinkable ships😢 RIP congratulations for for surviving🎉
Thoroughly enjoyed this fascinating investigation into her sinking.
I think it leaves no room for further speculation that the fault of her foundering lay at the feet of Lake Superior, not her crew ✝️
Size of vessel, I suppose, but not even remotely comparable in terms of loss of life - the Fitzgerald had a crew of 29.
The Eastland disaster is more like the Titanic in loss of life (844 to 915, depending on source). That incident happened on the Chicago River, right at the pier. If you extend the reach to the St. Lawrence River, the Empress of Ireland (1012) would be comparable, sinking quickly after a collision in heavy fog.
The deck rails which were chains had broken on one side not the vents
Many years of overloading and overspeeding caused stress fractures.
It filled up then submerged just like a submarine then hit bottom and broke in two.
The family members making this a memorial site was a complete injustice to the men who died…
They sold them out, so it would never be investigated properly..
That old bat, that was related, was the voice of the family’s.. and convinced them to settle
And not sue, for a fixed amount…
#1. What's with all of the meter and kilometer talk?? #2. Spraying water at a hatch doesn't take its account of the flexing and twisting the ship was doing at the time.
Exactly, that experiment is a joke, how do hoses replicate the power of the water/storm that night?
We’ll never forget the good men of the Eddy Fitz ❤
I was briefly a cadet at the maritime academy but between the bullying by other cadets and the poor academic at NMC I had to quit there is a hole in my soul I love ships the water and a quiet life it offers
I was on lake champlain in a storm once and thought i was gonna die, couldn’t imagine what Lake Superior is like
In May of 2023 Gordon Lightfoot passed away on May 1st, 2023. That following day May 2nd, 2023, the Mariners Church, the families approved of this of course, the bell was rang again 29 times for the crew of the Fitz and one additional time for Lightfoot. He synonymous with the Edmund Fitzgerald due to the song he wrote about its sinking.
That's my Uncle Dennis Dennis Hale in the first clip he was the sole survivor on the Daniel J. Morrell
I can't say if I think it broke on the surface or bottom. Both are possible. But I believe it was a combination of things that sank her. Invited by constant overloading and a weakened, vulnerable hull. Obvious by the broken fence rail. Prior to sinking.
Great film. Still one question not really addressed: why was she taking on water and listing when overcome by the rogue waves? I think it’s because she hit the reef.
But Canadas cost guard right after the tragedy went to the spot the Fitzgerald supposedly hit and saw no broken rocks or red paint marks. Possible Fitzgerald did have a design flaw as mentioned by former Fitzgerald crewmen Richard Orgel and Red Burgner who said the Fitzgerald flexed unusually much in bad weather. The Fitzgeralds exact sister ship was scrapped despite having millions of dollars spent on lengthening her just a few years prior.
You know, we actually do what happened. Once again man, rolled the dice with mother nature, once again we lost. I was 16 when this tragedy struck, it saddened me greatly as I live close to a port town and I had a lot of friends who worked the lakes. Let me tell you, they had a lot of frightening stories to regale. There are many tales of the lakes that we will never know about except for where the graves of the men are. RIP
….and all that remains are the faces and the names…..
Ernest McSorley - Captain
John McCarthy - First mate
James Pratt - Second mate
Michael Armagost - Third mate
David Weiss - Cadet
Ransom Cundy - Watchman
Karl Peckol - Watchman
William Spengler - Watchman
John Simmons - Senior wheelman
Eugene O’Brien - Wheelman
John Poviach - Wheelman
Paul Riippa - Deckhand
Mark Thomas - Deckhand
Bruce Hudson - Deckhand
George Holl - Chief engineer
Edward Bindon - First assistant engineer
Thomas Edwards - Second assistant engineer
Russell Haskell - Second assistant engineer
Oliver Champeau - Third assistant engineer
Ralph Walton - Oiler
Blaine Wilhelm - Oiler
Thomas Bentsen - Oiler
Gordon MacLellan - Wiper
Robert Rafferty - Steward
Allen Kalmon - Second cook
Joseph Mazes - Special maintenance
Thomas Borgeson - Maintenance man
Frederick Beetcher - Porter
Nolan Church - Porter
🫡
Alright I’ll listen to the song again
We need to recover the log book for some answers.. The middle of the ship broke up I think she bottomed out at 6 Fathom shoal.. Diving isn’t allowed grave yard or not people want answers.
The fact the SS Arthur B Homer the exact sister ship of the Fitzgerald was scrapped a decade after the Fitzgerald loss despite many millions of dollars spent to lengthen her just a few years prior, leads me to believe stress/hull failure is a factor. Former Fitzgerald crewman Richard Orgel and Red Burgner testified Fitzgerald's hull was "wiggling" too much in bad weather. Even saying Captain McSorley himself called it the "wiggling thing" and was frightened by it sometimes. Maybe the Lake Fleets deep down knew there likely was a design flaw, and so nobody bought The Arthur B Homer and they quietly scrapped the Homer blaming the economy. yet older, slower vessels with smaller cargo capacity were still sailing. But who knows? (Shrug)
I know that this video isn't the end all beat all but it definitely opens the door to the possibility of the fact that it was the fault of the crew. As usual, this appears to be just one more situation of corporate greed and overloading the capacity of the Edmund Fitzgerald and an unpredictable storm to rip this ship in half and, horrifically, sink and kill 29 souls. Yes, I know stuff happens but overloading this freighter at that particular time of year knowing the potential weather history . . .🤔
Sad doesn't describe this wreck. Should've never happened and the families of the crew more than likely were screwed by the system!
22:36 Two men aiming a hose at the ship's hatch, however high pressure that hose, does not replicate the force of the waves during an extreme storm! Their experiment is a joke.
If the Fitz broke up on the surface it would be the only instance of a *loaded* freighter breaking up on the surface, to my knowledge. Many frieghters riding in ballast have succumbed to hull fractures.
Interesting fact. The Michipocotin which is featured in this video suffered a catastrophic structure failure this year and started sinking in Lake Superior. They only made it to safe-harbor by the skin of their teeth.
Thought it was declared a burial ground so diving the wreck is illegal?
If 1994 expedition to the Wreck is accurate, the Bow section is actually in USA waters. Not Canada. Regardless people hundreds of years from now are likely diving to the Fitzgerald.
For an excellent book on the Fitzgerald, check out Ric Mixter's book "Tattletales Sounds" and his podcast on the ship. Highly recommend.
Why is it called: "Titanic of the Great Lakes"? Edmund Fitzgerald is a Cargo ship Not a Passenger ship. 🤦
Due to it believed to be UNSINKABLE as was the Titanic was considered
UNSINKABLE
I think the comparison comes from the size. When the Titanic debuted, it was the largest passenger ship at the time. When the Fitz was around, it was the largest freight ship on the great lakes.
When you think of a ship sinking in the ocean what’s your first thought? Mines probably titanic. What’s your first thought of a ship sinking in the Great Lakes? Mines the Fitzgerald for sure.
It's become a lazy cliche.
Why is it they can dive the Morel but not the Fitzgerald? They’re both gravesites
Like Edward Smith of Titanic, McSorley was also due to retire after the run.
He was supposed to retire BEFORE that trip.
Hubris.
The company tried to maximize income by extending her length, the captain decided to make one more trip instead of retiring as planned, then not only did he decide to leave despite weather warnings but also to race the Anderson!
The Titanic of the Great Lakes is the Eastland, 844 people died.
Fair point.
The lake at that location is 530 feet deep. The Fitzgerald was 738 feet long. Rogue wave could have driven it right down to stick it in the mud and broke it in half.
I do not believe that the men of the Fitzgerald neglected the hatch covers. They knew the dangers and would not have made such an error. The fact that people tried to blame this crew for the loss of the ship is Shameful.
I am reading the US Coastguard report right now. It seems that this documentary is not reporting the findings correctly. The report on the hatch covers blames the ship operator for not having proper procedures in place for the maintenance of the hatch covers. There is also a huge amount of the ship missing. And that the damage was probably more severe than the captain indicated. The report clearly states that the ship broke up as it sank or that is broke up hitting the bottom. All of this is misrepresented in the documentary.
11:36 not if you have a basic understanding of leverage and what a fulcrum point is…..🤦♂️
The ship obviously had suffered a stress fracture and was flooding there is no doubt about that . If that was true how do you explain the two collapsed hatch covers behind the wheelhouse ? I belive large waves ran up the deck piling up behind the wheelhouse collapsing these hatch covers, thousands of gallons of water rushed in sending the fitz to the bottom. If she broke up on the surface the hold would have been filled with water, and there would be no reason for the hatch covers to be collapsed inside the hold.
The ship went down because of greed plain and simple. It was overloaded and 29 people died because of a greedy gamble.
Good point I assume you have protested this by not using anything like an automobile, a cell phone, a computer, or anything else that contains metal.
ARE YOU MAD ABOUT IT OR DO YOU GET TO ENJOY CHEAPER FOOD CHEAPER GAS AND CHEAPER LIVING BECAUSE POEPLE LIKE DIED FOR IT YET YOU ACT LIKE IT BOTHERS YOU
@@zeke8686do you have tism?
I went on a tour in a museum on Lake Superior (?) where I was, said that most of the sinking of ships on the lake were caused by greed. When you bet and win 🏆 you or others get rich, when you lose we get tragedy. The storm was definitely a factor in the sinking. None of the crew did any betting. GOD have Mercy, on us all. 🙏
The big Fitz went down because of the weather.
YOU THINK ......DOH
It's not the crew fault they were brave until the end.... RIP
49 years!
they are missing a contributing factor from Captain Cooper. he said the Fitzgerald come across a shallow shoal. he thinks they bottomed out on that shoal combined with the rough waves. it makes sense by your own evidence.
This is what you have been waiting for @41:10 I wish there was a Sim of this for my PC!
Your guess is as good as mine
Part of the story is the mystery of what exactly happened. A tragedy. A reminder that humans are not omnipotent.GOD Bless the men who died and their friends, & family. 😇 🙏 😢
It seems like the crew always gets blamed whether it’s a plane crash or a shipwreck. Seems like someone is trying to deflect responsibility. It couldn’t possibly be poor engineering or poor maintenance.
And still we have armchair experts in the comment section that have all the answers. 😂😂😂
Always!
As soon as I clicked on this video, I knew I was going to hear some Gordon Lightfoot at some point.
The witch of November is what took her down.
The sister ship was long ago scrapped because it was no longer seaworthy, the Fitz was a poorly designed and built with subpar maintenance during her life. The Anderson which went back out to look for her was built before the Fitz, is still sailing.
it is better than the Carl D. or Daniel J. Morrell that had keels that couldn't flex in the big waves, both sank after stress broke their backs in bad weather
holy hell i wrote that before watching the video
@@ChicagoMan-fg1ee nobody really knows about them anymore unless you are a wreck diver and no songs either
People aren't listening to Cspt. Cooper of the S.S. Arthur M. Anderson. He was there. Go watch his interview. He tells you what happened
Former Fitzgerald crew Richard Orgel and Red Burgner testified that the Fitzgerald flexed unusually much in bad weather and McSorley himself called it the "Wiggling thing". In Captain Coppers his interview he said "hull failure or bottoming out" he did mention both. But he did personally leaned towards bottoming out. But he didn't rule out hull failure either. The Arthur B Homer the Fitzgeralds exact sister ship was scrapped despite having millions of dollars spent on lengthening the ship a few years prior. They blamed the economy yet ships with smaller cargo capacity we're still sailing. Maybe the Fitzgerald did have a design flaw?
Overdramatic music, fast cuts, a narrator, that uses superlatives every 5 seconds,....
No thx. I have watched enough documentaries like this already.
The crew: I can’t wait to make it to whitefish bay!
My brother in Christ the gales of November have come early
She didn't send a mayday that tells me she went down fast that also tells me a rogue wave took her out. But???