Egg Industry Response to Choline and TMAO
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- Опубліковано 13 гру 2016
- How the egg industry funded a study designed to cover up the toxic trimethylamine oxide reaction to egg consumption.
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Unfortunately, this appears to be par for the course for the egg industry. For more of their shenanigans, see:
• Eggs and Cholesterol: Patently False and Misleading Claims (nutritionfacts.org/video/eggs-...)
• Who Says Eggs Aren’t Healthy or Safe? (nutritionfacts.org/video/who-s...)
• Debunking Egg Industry Myths (nutritionfacts.org/video/debun...)
• Eggs and Arterial Function (nutritionfacts.org/video/eggs-...)
• How the Egg Board Designs Misleading Studies (nutritionfacts.org/video/how-t...)
For background on the evolving TMAO story, see Carnitine, Choline, Cancer, and Cholesterol: The TMAO Connection (nutritionfacts.org/video/carni....
Have a question about this video? Leave it in the comment section at nutritionfacts.org/video/egg-i... and someone on the NutritionFacts.org team will try to answer it.
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Thanks for watching. I hope you’ll join in the evidence-based nutrition revolution!
-Michael Greger, MD FACLM
Image credits: monicore via Pixabay. Images have been modified.
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the people who put their names below the study are murderers and should be prosecuted.
The problem is not choline itself. Although choline is the starting material for the production of TMAO, the real villains are carnitine and the TMAO-producing bacteria associated with meat-eating. Many plant foods (e.g., soy beans and broccoli) contain almost as much choline as eggs, yet because the microbiome of 100% plant-eaters contains a different profile of bacteria, we do not see high levels of TMAO in this population.
Johannes Anttila thank you for the added info! :D
I don't think the video said that.
A new video by him has said that!
But if it goes back down after 12 hours, then wouldn't that mean they don't have high TMAO levels? Its seems to me more misleading to do the tests right after consumption.
Yeah, but whether or not it goes down after 12 hours is off pretty small relevance considering that people eat for about 4-5-6 times a day with only a couple of hours between meals. If you eat animal products throughout the day, the TMAO levels may stay elevated for much off the day.
I don't get it though, if your liver could remove the TMAO is half a day, then why does it matter if you eat eggs? Does this only work in the short-term, and in the long term your liver won't be able to remove the TMAO, or what?
Considering Choline deficiency appears to be a significant risk factor for dementia in vegetarians (and a lot of omnivores as well) I'm curious if there is any way to test if taking choline supplements (not eggs, etc.) on a vegan/vegetarian diet (assuming the gut bugs have adapted to not produce TMA) would cause TMA production? Otherwise, we have a bit of a nutritional Catch-22 Here's a background article - www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6213596/
Take the choline we have other antioxidants to fight cancer not for dementia
Nuts, seeds, artichokes, asparagus, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, collard greens, garlic, mustard greens, okra, parsley, kale, apricots, bananas, bee pollen, brewer's yeast, buckwheat, corn, oatmeal, rice bran, and so on contain l-carnitine thal also contributes towards TMAO
Not for people on a plant based diet, because their intestinal ecology is modified and does not produce TMAO; that is the whole point.
Thanks for your comment Karl. I am a RD & one of the moderators at NF.
Not exactly, Dr Greger addresses the answer to the point you make in this video:
nutritionfacts.org/video/carnitine-choline-cancer-and-cholesterol-the-tmao-connection/
Hope this helps.
I thought a lack of choline increases the risk of cancer. Can you clarify this for me, please?
So no long term effects of eating eggs? TMAO levels drop down to baseline? Good. I think I will still eat eggs in addition to my plant based diet, so I can get enough choline to think. Thanks.
Emma Morano from lake-side Pallanza, Northern Italy, recently turned a respectable 117. She’s currently the oldest documented living person and on her birthday was interviewed by Euro News. Of course, she was asked the obvious question… what does she attribute her longevity to. She said that she’s been having 3 raw eggs every day since in her teens and this was her secret.
houndjog ok so you found an anectdote. whats your point?
The same way that every smoker knows this one lifelong smoking dude who lived to be 100 without getting lung cancer. Anecdotal evidence isn't gonna prove any point. Statistically, there is always someone who will defy odds.
The longest living person ever officially documented; smoked until she was 115.
Also just because someone lives long it does not give them some sort of hidden information on what makes people live longer.
If you met a professional skydiver who lived to be 110 would you still encourage people interested in living a long, healthy life to take up skydiving as a profession?
BAM! K.O.! I wish Dr. Greger was my lawyer!
So what about choline in plants? Sunflower seeds, soy etc. Or lecithin? They cause heart disease? Would like to see those studies on vegans who consume lecithin.
Vegetable Police
I'm interested!
One thing Dr. Greger forgot to mention is that regular animal product ingestion changes the composition of the gut flora such that more TMA is produced following ingestion of choline or carnitine. They actually tested this in humans by giving carnitine to omnivores vs. vegans. Carnitine is another nutrient like choline which leads to TMA formation.
Quote from study:
Omnivorous human subjects produced more TMAO than did vegans or vegetarians following ingestion of L-carnitine through a microbiota-dependent mechanism. The presence of specific bacterial taxa in human feces was associated with both plasma TMAO concentration and dietary status.
Koeth et al, 2013. Intestinal microbiota metabolism of L-carnitine, a nutrient in red meat, promotes atherosclerosis.
Thank you!
Thanks for your question. I am a RD & one of the moderators at NF.
Dr Greger answers your question in this video:
nutritionfacts.org/video/carnitine-choline-cancer-and-cholesterol-the-tmao-connection/
Hope this answer helps.
+Darchite RD I watched that video and it certainly doesn't answer the question.
As much as I love this channel, I really have to question the assertion made in that earlier video:
_"Another recent study found that men who consumed two and a half or more eggs per week-that’s just like one egg every three days-”had an 81% increased risk of lethal prostate cancer.” Now, it could just be the cholesterol in eggs that’s increasing fatal cancer risk, but it could also be that choline."_
One large egg, hard boiled has 147mg choline x 2.5 *per week = 368mg.*
I picked up your book today :)
Sorry I missed you at Veg Fest, hopefully you'll be at the next one.
How do those researchers sleep at night? Imagine if your legacy was to negatively impact the health of your friends, your family - your species!
realrunner2000
and that's so dangerous. all they see is money...
Veganism Unspun this is a big part of the problem with large corporate entities. It dilutes the responsibility. Everyone feels they are just a small piece with no real impact. So they just try to do their job and earn their pay to support themselves
Yikes!
Thanks a lot, i appreciate all your efforts
To spread the knowledge.
I love your videos, book and overall commitment to helping people learn ways to be healthy.
I really liked the ending how you showed a way some people manipulate studies to give the results they want ...
That's the stuff that makes me trust Dr.Greger more. The fact he exposes these industries/scientists and the shit pull on us.. It's like a conspiracy against the public's wellbeing/health!
.
Thanks for doing the research and posting! Sickening how devious some 'scientists' have become!
Choline is an essential nutrient though, TMAO or no TMAO. We need it. Just font get it from meat dairy or eggs. If the sources of choline from plant foods give us TMAO, so be it. We need choline.
Dr. Greger, thank you so much for FINALLY allowing people to access information about how to stay healthy by eating healthy! The food industry, mainly meat, egg, and dairy industries have been allowed to spread false and misleading information that is killing people every day. Your videos are so easy to watch and understand -- you take a complex subject and make it easy to understand. All people who care about their health owe you a huge debt of gratitude!
True
The egg industry is a complete joke!
Peter Rabitt Never apologize for puns!
Peter Rabitt i don't believe i did anything to deserve that PUNishment
More NutritionFacts merchandise please !!
Jorge Garraton - Douche Bag.
I'm "cracking up" at the thumbnail 😂😂😂
Your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth come on now no more “egging around”
0:6 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
0:06😂😂😂😂
@@angeldatboi5589 и,й:+:+:+:+;+;/:/+/+;:;;×ийИиййийй
@@spl12345s ййаыютпипийийтыйй#:+;:/+!×^^&;+*((??
Thank you for this one. I really like how you showed the way the egg industry rigged their results. Keep up the great work. I've already bought your book for four people! It also turned my boyfriend Whole food Vegan!
An explanation of why the reduction of TMAO levels after that period by the kidneys didn't alleviate the effects would have been helpful.
One explanation could be that people eat several times a day? So if your get a boost of TMAO after every meal, that is an insult to your arteries every time you eat choline and carnitine rich foods, which are ample in the Western diet.
those in the comments saying after 12hrs TMAO is cleared from their body so it is ok to eat eggs , didn't you hear all animal products do raise TMAO levels so eat breakfast and fast for 12 hrs think people it is not that hard
Thank you for that nice video!
Nuts, seeds, artichokes, asparagus, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, collard greens, garlic, mustard greens, okra, parsley, kale, apricots, bananas, bee pollen, brewer's yeast, buckwheat, corn, oatmeal, rice bran, and so on contain l-carnitine thal also contributes towards TMAO
Wikipedia says choline is an indispensable nutrient. Also it says one large egg contains 177mg and 454g of broccoli contains 182mg. A reasonably informed omnivore person would not eat more than one egg for a single meal, but since broccoli is mostly water and low in energy density, vegetarians would eat more than 454g of broccoli for a single meal. So, if choline is the problem, should we stop eating broccolis?
Jeong-hun Sin
I'm interested!
Jeong-hun Sin
Could it be a similar reason as with dietary Nitrites from plants vs animal products?
Jeong-hun Sin
Thanks for your question. I am a RD and a moderator at NF.
According to this publication, the difference has to do with our microbiome, where omnivorous produced more TMAO than plant based eaters and therefore response to foods is different.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3650111/
Hope this answer helps.
couple things: 1) dont use wikipedia for research; 2) the health benefits of broccoli--one of th healthiest foods in the world--far outweigh all potential health hasards (pesticides, etc); 3) no one eats just a bunch of broccoli for a single meal
It would be interesting to see if soy or sunflower based phosphaditylcholine supplementation would cause a rise in TMAO.
in theory, it should because eggs also have phosphaditylcholine
You rock! Love love love this one...i was waffling w/the idea of adding eggs back in my diet last week, what a stupid fleeting thought...can you read my mind, or something??
Big headline this morning on MSN..."Eating an egg a day can stop you from getting a stroke". The unnamed study MSN referred to was published in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition. I'd sure like to hear more details about the study.
That level of corruption is sad :(
Thank you for saving lives Dr. Greger!
the people who put their names below the study are murderers and should be prosecuted.
That is the funniest thumbnail i have ever seen 😂
Iuol 00779755r210976421VC
Him using the thumbnail as my wallpaper
Healthy eating is not hard to figure out ... eat just about anything other than animals and animal products.
Ronnie & Minh
Except highly processed foods with very low nutrition and high trans fats is even worse and can be completely plant based.
Absolutely.
You should avoid coconuts as well
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@@johzuke1 Karah
That thumbnail
Thanks sir
I saw the title as "Response to Choline LMAO"
lmao
@@leftstanding kk
Same.
Thanks
thank you
What about choline in beans ? same effect ?
So does this mean that the harmful effects are transitory and only last a little while or is there a cumulative effect that causes the increased risk to remain high?
There will be a sistematic damage, so called sub clinical inflamation, it can’t be detected with bloodwork.
@0:05 THE EGG HAD THE OLD MAN FACE!!!!! 😱😱😱😱😱
So what about broccoli and cauliflower, and a host of other vegetables - which contain high amounts of choline? Although not as concentrated as eggs/meat, but anyone eating a lot of these vegetables would end of with similar amount of choline as 2 eggs. (I went looking for vegan source of choline earlier this year! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choline) But perhaps we are seeing correlation not causation , as Dr Greger suggested.
can you do a video about K2? not the drug, vitamin K2, the one found in only animal products, and ome fermented soy product, natto. It's been said we need it, and vitamin k1 from plant sources are insufficient to converting into K2 in our bodies. thoughts? perhaps we don't neee k2? well they say we should eat meat and dairy as part of a healthy diet but we didn't buy it ;)
tony le The human body produces k2 by itself since our gut creates it.
not to discount this study but.....did they take into account what the egg layers ate?? such as GMO feed?? organic feed?? were the chickens free range??
jmarylastone lol free range....
The thumbnail is creepy
yes
4 to 8 Whole Boiled Eggs a Day Baby!
ugh... 😷
Holy cow! This was disturbing and convincing all at the same time. We love eggs. Giving up Huevos Rancheros is going to be very difficult.
the people who put their names below the study are murderers and should be prosecuted.
Can anyone tell me what that thumbnail meme is called?
that's a brilliant thumbnail
Is choline not involved in removing ammonia from the body. Also research in Amsterdam showed people with OPS (painters disease) had low levels of choline in their brains.
Omg I'm so haymy family and I eat a base plant diet thanks Dr for this information 👍🏻
we're all hay
Powerful.
Oh, Ok. So it looks like LDL wasnt the cause after all so now were on to new initials like TMAO and new medications. Cant wait to try some. Hope they're not as deadly as those statins.
Literally.
Right! A year from now 5 studies will show eggs are good for you !
No they won't.
Duh ! Yeah they WILL !
tom mccarroll Harvard just showed us egg eaters die younger. The egg industry cannot counter studies like those.
Stick around .. There WILL BE either contradicting or mitigating studies.
tom mccarroll never mortality studies, harder to take.
The guy in the thumbnail is an egghead.
Oh waw what an ending ! Dr Greger the quality of your videos is off the chart !
I am doing this at work :)
Jess and Max don't say that with your real name under it lol. got your Google+ acc set to private?
4:50 So the gut bacteria are the bad guys?
Jeff Lebowski yes I believe so. simply put, the population changes based on the nutrition sources you put in your gut. eating a plant based diet promotes the growth of beneficial gut bacteria instead of the unwanted ones.
Last week a co-worker asked me if eggs are healthy. After I shook my head and very bluntly told her that eggs are hens' periods, she said that she was done with them. Right there on the spot. :P
And honey is actually bees' vomit. Do you eat honey?
Stanislawfull Nope.
Sorry but that's bad argumentation. What does it matter if they are ''hens' periods''? That's a ridiculous reason to stop eating eggs, even though not eating eggs might be a good decision. People really need to take a course in logic...
Vladimir Yuvachov maybe it wasn't an argument, but simply an observation that resulted in disgust.
I accidentally turned a coworker off dairy that way. They didn't care about the health aspect, but still won't touch it because of me saying the words "cow nipple snot". *shrugs*
THE THUMBNAIL
But what about the studies that show that inflammation is the culprit in CHD?
You should watch "anything but LDL" by Plant Positive on youtube. I think those videos of his cover it perfectly.
What about the Choline in soy?
So basically our gut bacteria is killing us. A sterile gut is what makes us healthy.
From what I've read, and according to the movie "The Widow Maker," the best indicator of risk of a pending heart attack is a Coronary Calcium Score. So, if there's a simple, cheap metabolite test that can screen for calcium accumulation in the arteries, I think that would be the magic test. Incidentally, vitamin K2 is what directs arterial calcium to its proper place in our bodies, our bones and teeth. For vegans, that would mean consuming natto, fermented soy.
Great choice of vintage tech picture. RIP Dennis Ritchie, what a legend
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isnt choline an essential nutritional component?
ke fu it is, but found in many veggies. It's all about the gut flora involved. People that regularly eat animal products have a gut flora that reacts differently with the choline, causing problems. In way over simplified terms
Now that makes way more sense than the cholesterol talking that I see spread around vegan's channels. This would match the fact that okinawas consume meat once or twice a month with no impact on their health cause their gut bacteria just ignores the L-carnitine and Choline.
He talks like Chris Hansen on Dateline NBC!
Isn't Choline a B vitamin?
Choline can to some extend be synthesized by the human body so the dietary requirement is rather small. Legumes and vegetables for example do contain some choline. However, ironically enough the choline in vegetables and legumes does not increase TMAO in those consuming a plant-based diet.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3650111/
Even feeding a steak to a vegan does not result in an increased level of TMAO. This is due to the way a plant-based diet affects gut bacteria. The bacteria that turn choline etc into TMAO are not present in those eating plant-based. Please just see figure 2 of the link in case you don't want to read all of that.
Can you please comment on this latest egg study? heart.bmj.com/content/early/2018/04/17/heartjnl-2017-312651 It's been in the news all week. There must be something wrong with the methodology but I cannot tell
Egg-, Meat and dairy Industry are the biggest liars ....lol
Wow! 😲
There's choline in my vegan B-complex supplement. 😐
OK COCONUT there is choline in broccoli too
Just avoid animal products and you will not harbor/cultivate the bacteria that produce TMAO, that's the whole point.
Eggs...ugh. It's just rejects from hens.
Ganda bem beloi
Let's have a minute of silence for those people that still in this day believe eggs are healthy...
No One preach
lmao ^^
Controlled trials of egg consumption have not found an increased risk of cardiovascular disease associated with egg consumption AND Limited evidence on diabetics losing weight have failed to note adverse effects on blood lipid profiles associated with egg consumption.
Eggs are very healthy.
Nice try, egg industry...
TheOmegaeyes the wobble wobble industry tells you they are good for you and you gobble gobble up that nonsense faster than your huevos and swinefat breakfast
Nice, another whammy! Get wrekt Big Agro, science is not your friend.
Nuts, seeds, artichokes, asparagus, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, collard greens, garlic, mustard greens, okra, parsley, kale, apricots, bananas, bee pollen, brewer's yeast, buckwheat, corn, oatmeal, rice bran, and so on contain l-carnitine thal also contributes towards TMAO
0:06 XD OMG XD
I saw this through a add
Such a destroyer at the end :D
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...so egg whites? Are they good for you or not. I think the take away from the video says all eggs are bad.
Lol what a scam of a study. The last one.
what about the white only?
Genesis Squonk Screw off and eat the whole eggs as nature intended or not at all
Daka Swift "screw off?" really! that's your best reply? You must be a republican! Try to relax life is all good. Bye...leaving conversation to eat more egg whites.
genio 😘
What type of goddamn egg is that
After looking at man's technological wizardry like the beginning of this piece, does anyone marvel to see God's handiwork in this creation?
The f is with the thumbnail
А по-русски...
Don't we need choline to live?
wow! Thank you so much for all of the amazing knowledge you share with us!!!
I have a 6month old and I'm being pressured by her pediatrician to give her blended steak for iron!!! I exclusively breastfeed. Do you have any insight I could share with my pediatrician to help her be more open minded to the idea of a vegan baby??!!
Thanks for putting out the truth here.
You're ruining meat eating for me
Wow, talk about cherry picking data and forming a conclusion using the single cause logical fallacy.
the 1 person who thumbed down is from the wobble wobble industry
3
epic thumbnail.
but fuck i love eggs and milk. feh.
adarqui have you done much research into the cruelty behind them in the dairy and egg industry?
adarqui I love brownies, but I only eat them rarely, because they are a treat. Not real food.
.......tasty tasty doom?
Я знаю что ты это не искал