Alice from The Mane Quest here THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS 😭❤ You've hit various nails exactly on the head, and I hugely appreciate the shoutout to my work 💕💕💕
Wow, what an honor! I'm so grateful for the work that you do, Alice: it is my pleasure to share it. It is not an exaggeration to say that my opinion on horse games and girls games owes a lot to your influence! For my viewers, I encourage you to learn all about horse games from Alice too, at: www.themanequest.com/
As for specially girly game - I like the idea of "time princess". It's a game combining dress-up with text quests, where the main character dresses up as character of various stories and investigates them along with her cats. I wish there were some more interesting mechanics though.
This sort of thing is exactly why I'm happy to see the rise of indie games. Not for girls' games _specifically,_ but because indie games don't get so tied up in out of touch "market research" and what they think will make the most money.
indies tend to follow a specific market and excels at it unlike majority of triple a that caters for everyone being the jack of all trades & master of none, the possibility that a girly indie game might release in the near future is very likely
I kept thinking of "Unpacking" and how it's so relaxing and rewarding when you place everything correctly. I don't think I've ever thought of it as a girly game but, to be honest? I think it checkes all the "requirements"
@@matiassanchez1362 You could consider it more unisex.
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One thing I’ve never understood is publishers saying the female market isn’t good, while sims 4 has sold more than 30 million copies and is one of the biggest franchises in gaming. I’ve always played games, everything from sims, to every lotr game under the sun, wow, to star stables. However my favorites will forever be simulations + survival. The market exists, they just don’t want to.
What games do you recommend? I've become interested in survival games (most recently Vintage Story) and am still looking for really good life/work/society simulations (most recently Democracy 3).
I’ve noticed that as well. A lot of industries (including anime even) saying it’s because the market for these things are low but then there are always huge examples to where that’s just now true. Makes me wonder why people in these industries are so reluctant to just not make content for girls..
I think recently it's starting to dawn on them, with indie devs often more likely to make games that end up becoming popular/associated with women and making bank
That's because anything populated mainly by women suddenly becomes unisex. Which is actually fine and almost universally true. As advertising managers found out, even men prefer ads aimed at women. (I'm a marketing major, marketing in practice student and ex entrepreneur). In the 90s data found that "soccer moms" were the US's primary economic force and when they catered to those women, sales went up. Of course, it's different now. No one has money, so it doesn't matter) But, yeah. If women like it, it's for everyone. And that's not just conjecture. It's data driven
The problem with RDR2 roleplaying options is that they are useless because the game is too easy, in RPGs like Kingdom Comes not eating properly, sleeping or even dressing accordingly will influence the game, in RDR2 it's completely optional, just abuse cigarett*s and other items easily found everywhere and you can beat the game easily, your lack of roleplaying doesn't influence the game at all. Good idea with bad executions, seems like they were ambitious then restrained themselves to please a more casual audience, but if that was their concerns they should just have proposed different difficulty modes
@@heroe1486 "I wish they still made roleplaying games like they used to. These days it's all 'big choices' and 'visceral combat.' I miss those old games where you had to remember to drink water, and it took five hours real time to fly somewhere." Games shopkeeper in Mass Effect 2
0:20 My first thought was “If dudes didn’t also like dress up, nobody would pay money for skins.” I’m going to watch the rest of the video now. What a great opening.
about 1/3rd of my 4300 hrs in destiny has been spent getting fashion pieces, countless hours in cod games spent getting skins for guns. Anyone arguing against it is lying out of their asses
and i didnt...... i do customize too look normal usually. though at some point now make it looks as ridicilous as possible so i can laugh and see if the game even alow that the option
What a garbage take. There is a difference between liking a game primarily focused on dressing your character in realistic clothes, and game like Destiny 2 which features soo much in it's game, one of which is equipping gear that affects your performance in that game.
its funny stereotypes were that little girls arent aggressive but i vividly remember wanting to beat the shit out of everybody in line at the new york city toys r us for the my little pony seat on the ferris wheel
Not to mention, the sims community is well-known to have a lot of people who just love to torment their sims, another game that's more popular with a female audience.
And I'm a guy who hates guns, cars and football... And wants games involving nurture, creation and love :p (still enjoy all sorts though, including driving games and rail shooters)
I'm the Co-creator of Calico, Kells! Thank you so much for mentioning (with clips) Calico!! My goal with Calico was to make an extremely feminine game that any gender could play, but it absolutely is a part of the history of girl games. I'm glad that the movement of Cozy games is growing so much now a-days, but it's still very rare that you see a pink and sparkly game. I hope we see more in the future!
omg calico was such a good game I always recommend it to friends when they want something small. it really felt like someone with very similar tastes to my own learned to make games so they could make the ultimate self-indulgent game full of the best features from all their other favourite games. every feature I came across I was just like "yesss, I absolutely would include that if I was making something just to make myself happy"
I love Calico! I remember backing the Kickstarter and being super excited because it was the exact kind of game I wished I had growing up as a kid. Thank you for bringing such a lovely game to life!!!
Calico was such a fun game! I enjoyed every minute of it. And the dreamy color palette and soothing music were just wonderful. Thank you for the great experience!
As someone who’s trying to develop a game for teenage girls. I got told by NUMEROUS publishers & platforms and that there’s no target market there. For one platform I did a business case document citing studies and was still turned down. And honestly I would say it was me, but every single woman I know after Covid happened struggled at getting publishing; some with all star teams & incredible demos. A friend who had a game directed to people who love broadway & musicals, or another friend who had the audience of women who love horror got turned down for the same reasons or target market being to niche / non existent. It’s actually cooked haha
(I do want to give a special shoutout to Xbox though; they were the ones who actually did believe & gave an offerer)!!! So it’s not all bad just like after hearing from 30+ publishers where I quote by an agent “my wife plays dress up games; why is this not a dress up games? You should have more of those mechanics” 💀
That is so gross :/. I wish you all the best with your project! Like in the video "our study says girls don't have consoles" so let's not give them any good reason to want a console by contuning to make only pc girls games i guess O.o ...
Don't need to make all girl games just add co-op that allows open world coplay with good customization and alternate option that allow for community building and social progression without destruction and war.
I mean honestly fun things are fun, so a lot of it is going to depend more on if you can sell girls on the game or not, and if you don't actively drive them away from it. It's a low bar, but a lot of devs are still digging holes specifically to go under it. A lot of the time, all you have to do is give the option to either play as a girl or at the very least a guy who doesn't look like a roided out beefcake, like, say, Link. Or Dante.
@@psiah9889 Or like an actual Astarion. If the game was bad, Astarion would've saved it from drowning. The game is good, and Astarion is its wings. Moral of the story: need more female players, make more Astarions.
@@cryorayeah, as a guy it's a bit confusing but I see the point. I love Karlach's character and I'd play the game even if she was the only main character. Maybe it's the same with Astarion and girls. Maybe he's attractive to some, fan service for men works too after all. Maybe it's a mix of both
Your compassion for women’s interests really brings me a ton of joy. It reminds me of my dad. My dad didn’t just give me Barbie movies, dolls, etc, he found enjoyment in them. He genuinely likes the Barbie movies, telling me over the years that they’d make fun stage plays. He likes fantasy and whimsy. He likes Phantom of the Opera, romantic songs, he even recently watched the Vampire Diaries haha… He set a standard of appreciation of feminine things that would be really hard for me to find in men. I did everything I could to adapt to men as I got older. The humor, male dominated games, being more guy-like in order to get along well with them. But you seldom find men who are willing to do the same for women’s interests. You find often than not, men making fun of feminine EVERYTHING, especially in other men, shaming each other for taking an interest in feminine things unabashedly.
That's how it is, unfortunately. Your father must have embraced his feminine side. People have a more dominant nature but everyone has both feminine and masculine sides. So you become a more well rounded person by developing both.
As an adult now approaching my 30’s I only started embracing more feminine stuff in the past 3 years 🤯 When I look back on all the things that I really connected with growing up, they were all really, really girly. But I had 3 brothers and what I now understand was veiled misogyny in my family growing up… So with time I learned to hide it. It helped when I left my ex behind who didn’t like girly stuff (idk it was a weird dynamic but he for sure didn’t like me as I was and was constantly trying to change me), and started to be single for a time and discovered that my authentic style is super femme (I like to call it power femme haha bc I live for ginormous shoulder pads but then smaller frilly details in my signature looks)…. And the amount of confidence I have embracing my real self is immeasurable!!! I always get compliments when I put in the effort with my outfits 🤗 I just hope you don’t feel forced into being something you’re not. I don’t feel like I need to change most of the time but ofc there are probably instances… Like the one time I was told I couldn’t wear a skirt that hit my ankles when delivering pizzas (still feel like that is sexist)
When I was a kid, I found a really old book of jokes at the library. The humor was of the old-fashioned yet timeless kind. The one joke I remember is: "Why do we dress baby boys in blue and baby girls in pink? Because they can't dress themselves!" This was clearly a simple anti-joke derived from the redundant punchline, but I often think about how this joke has a hell of a lot more truth in it than what whoever came up with it probably was thinking of.
oh absolutely. the amount of times ive told my family 'just get my nephews whatever clothes we can afford that will fit, theyre too young to care' and my dad replies with how you cant just do that, you cant just put the boys in girls clothes even though most of the clothes at garage sales is baby girls clothes. he never has a reason, just "you cant do that".
So true. I like games men usually like. I wanna be a self sufficient like learning to be a mechanic for myself, I find pants more comfortable than dresses (I do wear some dresses, but not often). Why do I have to change my gender because I like things boys normally like? And also, why can't boys play girl games and barbie dolls? Who said cooking, cleaning, and sewing is for women? Heck why cant men cook? Cooking is a survival skill! I'm going on a rant. I just hate it when people have to change who they are just because they like something thats the opposite of them
There's the issue of kids not dressed for gender being bullied in playground... kids a brutal. So a normal parent will make sure to not dress up their child in clothes that might ruin their childhood. Mostly about boys, as girls dressed boyish are more acceptable.
Riding horses across Hyrule in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom brought so much joy. Along with the ways you can customize their manes, bridles and equipment, BoW and ToTK are definitely top tier horse girl games.
I've been playing Breath of the Wild on the Cemu emulator with the Linkle mod... so actually playing a girl instead of Link. Still wouldn't call it a "girl game" though. I mean even if I'm playing a girl and riding a horse, it is still the biggest, meanest horse in the game and it is being used to trample bokoblins into the dirt.
You are mixing things up. Riding horses was never a girls-only activity/game. It's part of human heritage, and zelda just added that as a way of fast transportation without breaking the immersion for players, not with the intention of copying old horse Riding girls game. There is nothing girly about the horses like the old girls games.
The ds was the era where i saw and tried the most girls games because of my sister. Its kinda funny how i never noticed that correlation between the “dressup” games and buying skins to look a certain way. Or a character creator being like a doll, or the caring for an animal games and taming a horse in breath of the wild or red dead. Girls games have had a very important impact because some of these crucial elements of todays biggest games have root’s probably to these early girl oriented games. Or at least it provided ideas as to minigame type content
True. Heck, I pride myself on being able to create really attractive female characters in games with character creators...and I can certainly see the correlation between that and dress-up games.
While not disregarding the impact of girl oriented games, I want to respectfully share a nugget of my research on the topic of character creation, which is pretty interesting actually. Character creation did not begin with girl oriented games, it actually began way back with the early days of D&D, runescape and other tabletop RPGs where you choose a character's race, gender, background and other details. This aspect of tabletop RPGs was one of the things that early computerized RPGs (videogames as we call them now) like 1988's Pool of Radiance tried to emulate to great success, with one caveat, this isn't really a character creation screen, at least that's not how we define it today, and while the idea was there we would not see a *visual* character creation screen until much later, perhaps in the era of the aforementioned girl oriented games that dominated the early 2000s. Point being, girl oriented games were not the first to do the idea, but they *may have* been the first to do character creation as we know it today.
I just realized I see a lot of girls and women doing it for both girls and guys but I never see a guy stick up for girls or girl related hobbies/games ect. It sadly makes me happy to hear a guy say it lol. But whenever I hear “there’s just not a market for it!” Whenever it relates to women for video games or even anime theres always huge examples proving that wrong with examples for when someone actually tried to make a it for women/girls. It can be a huge market but only if you actually freaking make something for that audience!!!
These comments are the first time I hear that people are saying there isn't a market for anime for women. Like Shoujo, Josei, Yaoi and shoujo aI, Yuri hime have been there right alongside shounen, seinen, Yuri all this time. Is this a specific bunch of current idiots propaganda?
Genshin Impact has a 45% female playerbase. And let me tell you, Hoyo knows what they're doing. Final Fantasy has a huge female playerbase too. As a woman, I think we have a lots of choices. In most RPG's, and MMoRPG's you can make your own adventure, can play the game the way you want. You can customize your character's every detail. For ex, BDO's character creation is insane. ESO's, and GW2's endgame is literally fashion. XD There are an insane amount of games which appeals to woman. Visual novels, and otome (story based video game) are very popular among women, millions of female players play those games.
I think part of the reason why people rarely speak up for it is because, when a "girl game" is good, it will be played by both genders, thereby erasing any meaning behind the term. So the only thing that's left is that a game can be identified as a girl game when its part of a franchise that's associated exclusively with girls (e.g. Barbie). As a man, I have played almost all of the games the video mentioned in its list, except for things like Barbie games. But I've never heard a single person in my life refer to Stardew Valley as "girl game". I've also never met a guy who tried it and didn't like it. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: The term "girl game" would mainly be used by people who are entrenched in toxic gender stereotypes, so any discussion where it comes up would end up with negative remarks about them. Whereas anyone who would talk positively about these games doesn't view them as gendered in the first place.
@@Louigi36 Also, I'v never seen any game promoted as a boy/male game. Growing up we played Mario, Tomb Raider, Assassins creed together with boys. I've never felt that we were excluded (as a girl).
@@Louigi36 I actually see this more in reverse that when video game that was meant to be more for the boy market gets popular it loses its association for being just for men (shonen anime as a whole is a good example) while I’ve seen quite a lot of people say games that are more associated with girls are not “real or good” games such as animal crossing, sims (which I guess people associate more with girls) and yes even stardewvalley but I agree that only people who are very deep into toxic gender ideals are the ones that think that
the sims is often regarded as a torture simulator I mean the sims community always goes feral when a new way to kill your sim is added and a weirdly large amount of players want a funeral event added as an option
It's because the game does sort of cater to women, and if you've ever seen girls playing with dolls, you understand that we enjoy a good dramatic death
@@chaosbean6320 oh definitely! Made my barbies fight to the death all the time when I was like seven, good times Also killing everyone in the sims 3 was my personal goal when I was little, I would boot up a new save and lock everyone I met in a pool with walls around it until I got bored lmao
@@channlerharu5569 Calling Red Dead Redemption 2 a "horse game" is also a misrepresentation. It was basically feeding a car with legs while gun customization.... I spent too long fiddling with extra parts and engravings. Only misgiving I had was you couldn't store things in a house like Skyrim. And by storing in a house, I mean this frame destroying mess. ua-cam.com/video/AGCZrNGiXQk/v-deo.html
"There is both value and meaningfulness intrinsic to every part of the female experience" I can't express how it felt to hear that actually. I wasn't focused, I was using the video as a podcast while drawing and I teared up.
It’s actually insane how accurate that list of “girl games” you made is. Pokémon, stardew, minecraft, animal crossing & splatoon are genuinely the only games on my switch other than a single monster hunter game that my brother downloaded.
@@mae2599there's probably some licensing issues with that as, and correct me if I'm wrong, Hamtaro isn't owned by Nintendo or the developer if their games.
I don't think it's a rebranding necessarily. I think it's more that "Girls have to be into pink Barbie dolls and stories about princesses" is insultingly one-note and cartoonish. I play Project Zomboid and a fair few games involving engineering like Oxygen Not Included and Satisfactory. And there are women playing those games. I'm learning from UA-cam streamers there are more women in my generation who had those "boy" nerd interests. And I find a lot of women engage with the characters from League of Legends. And women go in for the MCU movies too. As an industry, games are now worth more than movies, so I think the idea of a "gamer" is starting to fall by the wayside and start to become much more casually accepted hobby than some kind of committed lifestyle choice or niche interest. Sort of the way novels and movies both started out as low-class trashy art. And the younger generation doesn't treat Pokemon as some kind of strange or weird hobby, which is not how it was perceived when I was in high school. You were weird if you liked it. When Pokemon Go was a thing, a younger man told me that it was a great way to meet girls. (I may have used an invective at him.) I think it's more that the idea that women have to stay in a particular lane is breaking-down and that men liked to view them fitting neatly into that lane. But that's like saying women shouldn't like Legos. The appeal is universal and any social rule saying such is highly arbitrary.
@@ved2360 idk anyone who ever said women shouldn't like Legos. Idk I grew up in a very different and open minded family, I played with gi Joes and Barbies as a kid. Well at least one family was like that. Complicated childhood. But yea I don't think it's anymore of a "all women must be into girly things, so all girls must only play girl games" and more of a "well obviously some people, even some men, are into what some would call 'girly' things, so maybe we should make a good game with a lot of girly things in it for those people?" Type thing. I mean a lot has changed in the world compared to when I was growing up. Expectations are starting to change, along with a great many other things. I also liked pokemon back when it was considered weird. But yea I agree, appeal is very nuanced, and all of the industries are a little slow to pick up on that.
Cozy games, while they do intersect at times, aren't really the same thing as the growing girl games movement :) we're seeing increasing demand for unapologetically girly/feminine/pink games. There's starting to be so many otome game releases that gamers are having a hard time keeping up, and localizing companies are having a hard time putting them all out. Several companies have just fully pivoted to this niche such as aksys games. In comparison, the cozy game movement seems mostly around indies and their publishers, focused at a more neutral audience (that still captures girls/women).
@@ved2360 You seem to still be caught up in the old anti-femininity mindset. Hello Kitty is getting it's largest game ever this year and has large fan demand. Fashion Dreamer is a literal spiritual successor to style savvy and is shaping up to be a heavy hitter in the industry. The Love Nikki series is getting a AAA-style open world game on PS4/PS5. You couldn't be more wrong. There *is* a growing demand for unapologetically "pink" and "girly" games. Pretty Princess had a delayed launch in the US, and immediately got a sequel with the US launch happening ahead of Japan (it's country of origin).
It's kind of refreshing to see a man talk about and take girls games seriously and advocating for quality instead of bashing them. Games for girls don't have to suck or push stereotypes!
@@iamLI3 Because girliness and femininity are not stereotypes, they are part of a lived experience, that can't be simplified down to an aesthetic or cut and dry formula. A game can be for girls and not push stereotypes by genuinely listening to and engaging with the interests of it's female audience and what they want to see in their games, and developing quality gameplay around that, or with that in mind. This is different from developing a game for girls based on stereotypes, where the game is designed based on things attributed to girls, usually by a male dominated game design team, even if those things do not accurately represent what girls want, who girls are, or what they would genuinely enjoy in a game.
@@reumarks you're going to have to explain what your definition of "stereotype" is then , because this is what it should be in this conversation's context 2 : something conforming to a fixed or general pattern neither i nor the dev consider stardew valley a game specifically for girls , we consider it a game for anyone
@@iamLI3 You left out the rest of that definition especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment
One "girl game" that I really enjoyed was Super Princess Peach. It's marketed to girls and has "girly" aesthetics, but at it's core it's simply a very solid jump-n-run.
Oh my god this comment unlocked memories of my childhood. This was the one of the few games my non-gaming cousins (girls) played. I loved it and the concept so much.
Honestly, this isn't even just a gaming only problem. Literally before I even found this video, just earlier in the same exact day I was talking with a friend about some TV stuff that got announced and they randomly brought up "why do no girl-targeted action cartoons exist anymore?" I had never even noticed up to that point but yeah, back when I was a kid in the early 2000s, there was loads of girly action shows like Cardcaptors, Sailor Moon, Totally Spies, Powerpuff Girls, etc. but nowadays it's basically non-existent. Yes there's still girly shows but most of them are more traditional girly stereotypes and even the few that exist are honestly largely ignored or unknown globally. For example, in Japan, there's a massive franchise with 900+ episodes and 20 seasons called Pretty Cure, it's non-existent basically internationally even though anime is so much bigger globally now. Literally only 3 of those seasons (2004, 2012, and 2013) ever got English dubs because nobody thought girls would want to watch those kinds of shows over here when they likely do. More companies across all industries need to realize that there's room for more girly targeted projects without going full "pink, makeup, horses, etc." stereotypes and you also don't have to ignore girly stuff entirely and just go for a gender neutral experience either.
It's also really rare even now for 'girly' media' to get respect or proper releases in English. Pretty cure got released here as glitter force, which is fine. But it got many episodes cut or censored. It also doesn't want kids to know the mc's live in japan or can be severely hurt by enemies. As a fan who grew up un the DIC release of sailor moon( which finally got released uncensored in 2014), kim possible, totally spies, the mary kate and ashley back in action, and cardcaptors I was hoping things had finally changed.
The only recent girl-targeted cartoon show I can think of is Miraculous Ladybug, which was made in France. It has an English dub and plays on Disney's tv channel. I enjoyed watching it for a while but eventually the butchering of the writing of characters got to me and I had to put it down. They had one of the "villainous" bully characters start to change and become semi-good, but I guess the show writers realized she was becoming a fan favorite and didn't like that, so they made her do a sudden heel-turn and act like an even worse jerk. Ugh.
Both She-Ra and The Proud Family got revived fairly recently, Star Vs. The Forces of Evil was popular and lasted four seasons, Centaurworld was arguably pretty girly, and I highly recommend Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur which just started airing now. I think there could/should be more, but those are the few I could think of off the top of my head as a grown man.
It's because US "girls' media" is currently dominated by ideologues, so when it's a story for girls with action, it cannot just be a straightforward adventure story that just happens to star a girl and be about girls and their daily lives/friendships/hardships/whatever; it *has* to be about an abrasive girlboss fighting the patriarchy, with themes about feminism, LGBTQ, and all the other assorted baggage. Those are things that kids don't really care about, so you end up with most of these shows having rabid young-adult fanbases instead, just because those align with their politics, and so the creators inevitably start catering to the tastes of that demographic, eventually leading to the shows not being for young girls anymore. Funnily enough, Japanese shows seems to be a lot better in this regards, but then those have to contend with anime's (not entirely groundless, but absurdly overblown) reputation of being for social rejects and perverts. All in all, it's just a sad situation.
@@LeoMidori I would also add The Owl House and Amphibia to the list. Though I generally agree with the first posters opinion, it isn't quite true that there are no animated shows for girls being produced right now. But there have certainly been phases where we did hardly get anything with girls as a primary target audience. Also even though the fandom became what it is, My Little Pony gen 4 was definitely produced for girls. I'm not sure how gen 5 is doing but I would assume it's mostly the same.
I remember feeling the need to play "boy" games as a younger girl, because girly games or even what is considered cozy games now were lesser. I still sometimes catch myself thinking "oh, she only plays animal crossing, she's not a gamer" because it's so engrained in me. Amazing video, it really fueled my thought process of what I internalized even as a girl growing up in the 90s and 2000s, looking for games that suited me.
Yes! The internalised misogyny runs deep 🙈 reminds me of the “I’m not like other girls” and “I mostly have guy friends” vibes I’ve thankfully moved on from since my teen years 😅
@Weyland Punani What male hobby is considered lesser? I ask genuinely because the way you phrased it came off a bit defensive, and a sort of what about men thing. Again, don't take offense
the whole "the everyday experiences of girls are inherently compelling and deserve fun and good and well-designed representation, which results to self-confidence and affirmation" bit actually just made me cry haha, the inner child is healing ... what a great video all around!!!
Same!! Thanks for writing this comment. It's like a lifetime of feeling guilty and embarassed by girly things was just lifted. I've never heard anyone say that before and didn't know I needed it until now.
I'm a woman who has been playing videogames since I was 4 and always felt like something of an outisder in the wider mainstream gaming community, when I found out about otome games and the community of fans surrounding them it was like I finally found a place I actually belonged in, I'm really happy high quality girly games are being made more often nowadays and not treated as jokes so young girls who are just now getting into gaming won't feel excluded like I was
@@ollietaro yeah, I feel like they definitely deserved more than just a passing comment, otome games are already an obscure niche inside a niche as it is
I’m a woman working in the games industry and you’ve really opened my eyes to what we can do to make better games for women. My mission up to now has been to bring colourful graphics and quality premium games (not free to play) to the market to prove that there is a place for these games. Perhaps now I’ve received the missing perspective of the puzzle I’ve been trying to solve. Thank you 💜 I would also say you guessed a good majority of girl games that I love! Kingdom Hearts is dah best and most Japanese developers just get it right 💪🏻
One upcoming "girl" game I'm very curious about is called Infinity Nikki. It's based off of a mobile dress-up series for girls, but Infinity in particular looks like a high budget, high effort open world adventure game in the vein of Breath of the Wild, and reportedly even has a long-time game designer from the Zelda series onboard. It doesn't have a release date yet but it's a game I'm keeping an eye on just since it looks so unique, and if it actually turns out good I hope it gets some attention for it.
When I was a little girl, I played DOOM, some military strategies and chess. Among the “girl games” I liked playing Nintendo’s "Little mermaid", but I finished it very quickly and got bored. I also played SIMS, I was interested in planning gothic mansions and creating cemeteries
yeah, the video is way to stereotypical. most people just do things they like (playing doom or strategy) without actually thinking too much about it. people are way more varied then this video would suggest! only if you bring this identy politics into the topic people begin putting themself into smaller and smaller boxes they try to fit! i played doom too but i also like to play dress up (theater) and nobody cares!
Little Mermaid on NES was played by almost everyone, it had cross-appeal, probably because of Disney, you'd have guys play it as much as Lion King, Batman, Aladdin and Ninja Turtles.
This video was amazing! that part where you listed all the classic "girly" childhood games was a trip down memory lane 😂 I remember being a part of a conversation online recently about harassment in online gaming, and how women don't feel safe entering those spaces. Someone brought up how there are large, female-dominated gaming spaces online that get left out of the cultural idea of "gamer" completely (the sims, animal crossing, stardew, etc). I find it really interesting how we categorize a "good" or "challenging" gaming experience. Most people view these as "casual" games, but the people who play them are anything but casual. Are animal crossing and the sims "hard" in the way an online FPS game is "hard"? No, but I think they're hard in that they require skills and knowledge that isn't valued by the demographic that values big AAA action games. I can't tell you how many guys I've met who've offered to play animal crossing with me and their island is a mess! 😂 theres nothing wrong with that of course and I'm certainly not trying to make a silly gender essentialist claim that men are predisposed to be bad at decorating. I just see a lot of women and girls in these spaces take aspects like design and aesthetics extremely seriously, and to see those skills lambasted as "lesser" or "casual" really upsets me. Your point at the beginning about how everyone loves to dress up in their own way rings really true, and I wish the skill required to be really good at games that hinge on these aesthetic pursuits was taken just as seriously as how fast you can hit a target or beat a boss. Not all games have to be competitive to be compelling!
I used to play the Love Niki Dress Up Queen mobile game with my youngest sister, on the phone. There's a "Competition" mode where players create outfits based on a theme, and the rest of the players judge which outfit is the best. You get more points if your outfit is judged higher by the general populace. Anyone who says that aesthetic pursuits are any less challenging or competitive than hitting a target or beating a boss needs to give that a try: my sister smoking me during every competition was proof enough for me that dress-up is not only skill-based, but also extremely complex and compelling!
I'm a man and my animal crossing island is a mess can confirm (But honestly, I just find environment decorating to be boring. I take character design and outfits very seriously though 😩)
Granted, when you see us making rooms in Animal Crossing that are nothing but toilets, you definitely have an argument there that we suck at decorating LOL. On a somewhat more serious note, i like to assume that we have evolved from the idea that women don't belong, but i definitely know there was an argument to be had. Blizzard will always be a good reminder that female gamers had a rough time, especially with the "Victoria Secret Catalogue" mentality. But games like stardew, sims, and especially animal crossing given the pandemic, have truly marked that those "lesser" games are still worth acknowledgment, and have their place in gaming. And it might be the fact that my mother was always a gamer, if anything she raised to play a lot of different games from different types, but i've always wondered why was the idea that "women like to play videogames too" a topic of discourse. It just never made sense to me because...you don't need testosterone to enjoy a video game, let alone want to pick up a controller and do things. It's just different strokes for different folks.
I spent months in Animal Crossing NH trying to grow blue roses. I've also done Savage raiding in FFXIV. I still couldn't tell you which was more difficult!
I, for one prefer educational games: don't you think women like you would benefit more from a game like 'Turing Complete' rather than a stereotypical game with no agency?
The list you made killed me, like 80% of that applied to me. Even the whole “your favourite character is Edgeworth” when regarding Ace Attorney. I was laughing so hard at how specific your description was yet how much it applied to me (and obviously many others).
Confession time: That one Nintendo direct that was like 90% farming sims made me eye-roll and groan almost all the way through. Watching this video made me reflect a bit on why I did that and made me realise that as someone who is very passionate about games, I need to work on becoming more appreciative of the work being put into these types of games despite the fact that they aren’t made for me. Excellent video!
Yes! So good to see people self-reflecting. We all have biases and tendencies that don't lend toward accepting the desires and ideas of others. It's important to remind ourselves that it's not always about us and what we want, and that the goal is for everyone to find enjoyment playing video games. In that same facet of thought... often, it's our mindset that holds us back from experiencing potentially new and wonderful things. Perhaps we just THINK that game/movie/book/food/etc isn't for us, but if we never give it a real chance, how can we really know?
I played all the “proper” games growing up (World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls, Minecraft, CSGO, etc.), and because of that groaning reaction I’d receive from my friends mentioning farming related games, I kept it secret that I played games like Animal Crossing, Harvest Moon, Sims etc. I recently found out one of my guy friends played Stardew, it was nice to finally talk about a “girly” game with him.
no , if you had that reaction because the quality of those games was bad then it was a valid reaction , farming simulator is a decent genera of game 99% of which is made terribly , so of course a direct that was 90% farming sim was going to generate unpleasant reactions don't be fooled into thinking you need to change yourself to suit other people's tastes , especially if it tastes like shit , those games were still being marketed towards you , if they appeared to be quality art then you would have automatically been appreciative of them despite you thinking they are not your kind of game
"Your favourite character was Miles Edgeworth" delivered like it's a hard read but it's more like newspaper astrology because everyone's favourite character is Miles Edgeworth
As a woman gamer who was a kid in the 2000s and grew up on all the girly-game shovelware you can think of, I was completely oblivious to the fact that they were mostly “low quality” games (sans nancy drew and even some barbie games that I still consider to be good quality bcuz they focused on storytelling, world-building, character development, problem solving and receiving rewards). For me, the “emptiness” of certain games created the necessity for me to use my imagination (whether that was the intent of the developers or not lol), and the act of imagining excited me more than anything as a kid. There was nothing I loved more tbh. But I feel where the big disconnect between young girls and older women’s interests lie is that when people age (men or women), we use our imagination less, we are less excited by the idea of imagining things. We want the real thing & we are more aware of the quality of things, whereas kids compromise with what is given & learn to enjoy what’s given to them. As I got older, I shifted towards the more “masculine games” despite not having a competitive bone or thirst for “conquering” in my body. The reality is I would love to stick to playing “girly games”, that aesthetically oriented/pretty/cute, without much pressure, violence & competitiveness (not that I necessarily dislike those things), but there aren’t very many of them that exist with the depth and meaning I crave. I want world-building, good character development and story-telling, wrapped up in a cutely designed world, that has a lot of casual gameplay and isn’t pressuring in a negative way, but still challenging, fun & intellectually + EMOTIONALLY engaging, whatever those emotions are, doesn’t necessarily always have to be happy. I love harvest moon bcuz even tho it’s wrapped in a cute & happy package, it still has depth. Some of the games really cover themes of life really well like grief & loss, importance of community, friendship, etc. I love games that have humanity injected in to them, & make me feel more connected to my own humanity. I think that’s what it comes down to. I want my games to be either a piece of peace, or a revelation to me, or both. Maybe bcuz my mind is already stressed as it is in the real world lol. Many women want an escape, and not more chaos.
It may not be a "girly" game but if you haven't played it I recommend rdr2. As a girl I really loved how in depth some elements like fashion, interaction with characters, horse bonding were. And I really loved exploring. I loved how you can choose haircuts for Arthur:)
ah the emotional investement that you describe is why i keep returning to Deltarune (despite there being only two chapters yet and i know them by heart by now) i read your comment and all made me think of deltarune fondly, i really relate to your statements :')
yeah, seeing the thumbnail and title made me think i was going to watch a video of a woman speaking about this topic, but it just hits kinda different when its a guy talking about it
I think that says quite a bit about our cultural moment in time. Some think only masculinity has been attacked, but I think femininity was attacked first actually. Both have been attacked to the point where they have in a way become undefinable and/or irrelevant. A man talking about the innate goodness of femininity or a woman talking about the innate goodness of masculinity has become foreign in our current society.
@@VunderGuy I agree. If you get rid of designated roles for the sexes, you must also erase the concepts of femininity and masculinity, I mean those categories don't mean much of anything if it doesn't make one better suited for one thing over and against another thing. Defeats a crucial purpose of the innate distinctions. What's motherly instincts without a female with feminine characteristics? It would make no sense. Personally, I think the people who hate women most are feminists, they want women to be men, they don't want women to be women. If you make the sexes equal in roles, equal in capabilities, then that means they're exactly the same, which defies reality, we know better.
@@VunderGuy During WWII, the Red Army had almost 1 million women, of which around 500,000 were called up to serve as soldiers. These women changed the course of history and were omitted. In American Civil War, more than 400 women disguised themselves as men and fought in the armies to free their nation and terminate slavery. Only to mention two important documented moments. Maybe you're just misogynistic and think women don't fight in wars.
@@_SpreadingLove_ What you call and think of as misogynistic is actually a love and care for women. We understand, and frankly anyone who has a truthful realistic understanding of human history and anthropology understands that women are not very well psychologically or physically suited for things like combat. Actually, everything that makes someone better suited for war and combat goes against the grain of what womens natural feminine qualities tend to be, women were not designed to do the difficult things that would make for good killers/fighters, to be assertive, authoritorial and aggressive. I'd say from quite a bit of anecdotal evidence I've witnessed and learned about; when women take on more masculine characteristics, they tend to not be able to handle them well, they can be more irrational and go more easily overboard when trying to take on a more masculine persona, or just fail badly at it. You think of all the qualities that make for something like a good wife and/or mother and those qualities are polar opposites of the qualities that something like war requires. The truth is we care about women so much that we think it's not only better, but it's morally obligatory/imperitive that WE (MEN) TAKE THAT DIFFICULT PLACE! Women should not be allowed to be subjected to that. Ugh, I hate feminism, some of the worst bunch of brain washing, woman destroying garbage that modern society has ever spat out! Feminism, when looked at from a historical, logical, well informed, and critically thought through perspective, should lead one to conclude that it is an ideology that hates and wishes to destroy women. Women in war and the like should be very rare exceptions, and only necessary under the most dire of circumstances.
Here are some other girls games that werent mentioned: Club Penguin, Moshi Monsters, Slime Rancher, Alice Madness Returns, Hello Kitty Roller Rescue, Singstar, Just Dance, Animal Jam, Movie Star Planet, Stardoll, Cooking Mama, Love Test simulators. Just off the top of my head that I remember from childhood and this probably isnt a universal experience but these were all popular when I was a kid.
MOVIE STAR PLANET... you just unlocked a memory for me, thank you haha! I was also a huge fan of Webkinz. I wasn't really a gamer as a kid, because there weren't a lot of games that I actually enjoyed. But Movie Star Planet was definitely one I willingly & enjoyably lost weeks of my life to lmao
I'm in my 20s, I have a job, I pay bills and taxes, and I am attending college. I found myself looking for a good dress up game several times in the past few years, but most of them were shoddy and poor quality. I never got to play style savvy as a kid, but I really wanted to and still want to. I also loved the barbie flash games from their website in the 2000s. I still enjoy competitive games, but sometimes I just want a fun experience of dressing up that doesn't necessarily involve doling out a bunch of real life money to make my mmo character look more stylish. Sometimes I just want that aspect of a game, more or less on its own. It could be marketed mainly towards children, but if it's good enough quality I'd totally play a good dress up/makeup/fashion game today.
Animal Crossing has that available, one of the easier ones to grab anyway. There are mobiles games too with that, no idea how you'd look it up however.
Highly recommend the Nikki games, like "Love Nikki: Dress Up Queen" and "Shining Nikki"! They are mobile games and have gacha/paid stuff, but in my experience, you don't have to spend on them to have fun and make good outfits.
Games such as Dress Up games are attractive to a very niche audience. As such, these games are less likely to attract significant funding, and as such are more likely to be simpler with less features. You won't find a dress up game with, for example, the number clothing items that Diablo IV or Halo has.
I stopped a third of the way in to say "THANK YOU" for acknowledging that progress most often comes in incremental steps, and a lot of early works may look "cringe" or worse by today's standards, but those works are still important, because they form the foundation for future improvements. This is true in so many things, both social and more concrete, but with how fast the world has changed in the last hundred years compared to the overwhelming majority of human history, it seems many are quick to forget, and dismiss anything that isn't/wasn't EXACTLY their end goal.
Im now convinced that Zelda Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are dress up and explore games that appeals to all audiences. The amount of clothes and customization in those games is truly a force to be reckoned with, on top of the story and amount of stuff you can do.
omg and don't even get me started on the gerudo and link cross dressing to blend in and just the overall lack of gender-defining characteristics that link has. paired with fantastic mechanics, tight combat, and a beautiful environment ughh
"i played a lot of boy games growing up too..." then you proceed to list so many staples from my childhood LOL so glad to have been exposed to girly games and other games that weren't just what i would have stereotypically liked. we need more girly games and we need more games for girls that aren't necessarily stereotypically feminine just as you said. thanks for what you do, this video was absolutely fantastic. and everyone go play the newer story of seasons games :)
I really appreciate you talking about feminist issues in the gaming community and delivering it in a way that is so effective on an audience that might be resistant to the idea! I was surprised when I clicked on the video to hear a male voice and talk about the experience of women in games as a genuinely unique and valid experience. I'll definitely be sharing this with all my fellow girl gamers. Thank you
i think feminists caused the colapse of girls games in the 90s. i don't know if you watched the same video as me but sounded like activists feminists wanted to destroy femininity and girliness like they try to do to this day with all of this girl power BS. insted of doing good games for girls barbie dress up could be the first to alot of games but no... came in the activists so caled feminists saying that femininity and girliness is bad.
@@ArlindoBuriti So true. As a female gamer I have enough of toxic feminists. We can't even have pretty female protagonists (see Aloy, the new Lara Croft, Black Widow in Avengers game etc), because they believe it will make female players insecure. I'm so angry, man can have their power fantasy, but I as a woman I can't play as a beautiful sexy woman, because now that is apparently bad.
@@pepita2437 very poignant , which is why im sure your concern will not be considered for the discussion of this propaganda video..... not only this , but i literally just read someone saying this "Kyrie Jones 4 days ago Girls don't want to play games that sexualize women" so not only are you not allowed to play as the sexy woman you want to , this person is invalidating your entire existence by stating that you don't want to play as the thing you want to , all while claiming to be advocating for what you - a woman - wants by addressing this problem which is of pure contrivance and of course we all know the reason for this bizarre situation is because as i stated in my original comment on this video , our culture is being attacked by political social engineering for the purpose of physiological subversion of not just games but all civilization....
I am girl, late millennial , and I was determined that you wouldn't have predicted my gaming history, but alas you were pretty accurate, especially with targeting specifically Windwaker. The nail in the coffin was Phoenix Wright and my favorite character being Edgeworth.... I have never been more called out in my life with that one..... :/
Missed out the pre-Nancy Drew point and clicks, like Sherlock Holmes and Beneath a Steel Sky, which still comes back to calm puzzle solving, and the trading simulation games like The Patrician and Machiavelli, but otherwise pretty comprehensive history.
Lmao, it’s ok, I’ll join you in the hot seat down in the comments.🤥 And I call myself a gamer🥹 Can confirm WW was among the games in my formative years. WW the first animal crossing, sonic heroes and it only spiraled form there. Tho not all of my games he predicted He left out a key demographic of the ninja gamer girls. I’m talking the ones that were super into Naruto and TMNT and bought anything related to it. So he hasn’t got all of us just yet at least not the tomboy and emo phased gurls🤘🏼
It's always been strange to me how long it took for farming sims like Harvest Moon (Story of Seasons) to start catering to women in that you'd actually get to play as a girl and marry a guy rather than the other way around. I wonder if they were more popular with boys initially?
Yes, they are more popular with boys initially. And tbh, even with the release of the female version, many girls I know who played the series were more inclined to play the original, because they're already familiar with the character. That said, the video glossed over how Japan's media (not just gaming) industry works in general. There will _always_ be good Japanese games that target the female audience. Many of the games he listed in the opening session aren't even considered as "girl games" (I don't know, he did mention global west, so it's possible that they are considered as such strictly in the global west). The Sims and Hamtaro for example. Uma Musume is DEFINITELY not a "girl game", though it has lots of female players.
The Harvest Moon series was very sexist in the first years of the franchise, a couple of them when you played as a girl if you ever get married it ends. No joke, once you do is a Game Over, you had to start again or never get married in your playthrought, which the male version never has this issue in the first place. Clearly an shitty double standard.
@@nidohime6233 unfortunately the previous japanese generation still largely expects women to retire to be a full time housewife and child caretaker once you get married. The younger generation is obviously not fullfilling that, because of far more options for women plus that it isn't affordable anymore for most people even if they wanted it.
I just want to cry, I can't explain how much this video scratched an itch I've had for decades! Awesome video and I can't wait for it to open more and more discussion about this topic!!!
As a young girl I was annoyed how all the girl games that took my interest by cover art and title, where often so horrible in gameplay en execution. I noticed then how more typically male oriented games where of higher quality with more depth. It was honestly sad that killing something in shooting games was deemed more interesting than planting things to grow and basically giving life to gardens, animals and villages.
@Amaria Jade The first part is just about preferences, and i've heard many people say the opposite, I think that you're missing the point by bigging something up while bringing something down.
I am a Japanese girl and Japan provided a lot of quality 3DS game for female players. I recommend you to play 'Girls Mode -Star Stylist' and 'Pripara'..etc. It's cartoon-ish because we're Japanese. But they're amazing.
It feels very nice to have a man acknowledge that a lot of other men see games made for women as “lesser”. It is something that I have experienced my entire life: being laughed at by men for my hobbies. Anything that women are interested in is seen as less valuable, superficial or dumb. Think of horse riding or liking certain music. It really shows how ingrained sexism is.
I think the reason they may define it as "lesser" is because they place value in competitive games and since girls (on average) aren't rly into them it's bound to happen. I don't know how that is a form of sexism, the real discussion that ought to be had is the fact that the games that girls play shouldn't be viewed as inferior because they have different priorities in their needs from a game, cause men and women are different temperamentally. I don't think that horse riding is frowned upon by society (but I haven't seen extensive discussions on horse riding either other than the regular mention of it among rare hobbies(it's rare in my country) so I may be wrong). As for music I also haven't encountered at least in my social surroundings sexism towards music that girls hear
@@miss_jess No, it is because employees in female dominated industries are easier to come by because men are less picky about what they will do for money. Supply and demand.
@@leyteristhomas6994 This isn't the main reason. I place value on lots of things but I don't consider the alternatives to be lesser. I could be indifferent to them. If I devalue something or scorn it, which men certainly do for most female interests, then there's a different reason. And yes that reason is just misogyny. Plain and simple. You can tell it's misogyny because we actually have a great deal of examples where the hobby/industry changed from being primarily male to primarily female or vice versa and the surrounding social narrative changed too. In the mid twentieth century programming and coding was female dominated. It was called a pink collar job. It we was seen as mechanical and menial and not something men bothered with. The men came up with the visions and the women did the grunt work of making it happen. Fast forward to today and most people would be blown away to find this out. Those women were paid peanuts. They contributed hugely to all sorts of important break throughs. No credit given. Nowadays programming is seen as highly skilled crucial labour. Someone doing programming work on an important project or discovery will be very well paid and credited in the fields that give individual credit. Nowadays programming is male dominated. This is not a coincidence. Another example is teaching. Historically teaching as a private tutor of the wealthy was male dominated. Yes you did have governesses but serious teaching for advanced skills was male. It was respected and well paid. Once it became public school and women began to dominate it became seen as a lesser profession. A hobby for women to earn their pin money. Wages have been in free fall for decades. There are many more examples I can't remember. The key factor is which sex does the work. It doesn't matter what the work or hobby is, what matters is the perceived relationship to the sex that does it the most. Edit: as for music and book, you have to be joking if you haven't seen people pour scorn on things girls like. Twilight was silly YA books and got regularly torn apart by adult men seemingly for no reason. Musicians that girls like get shit on even if they're not girls e.g. Justin Bieber. Again, it's not about the actual content, it's about women liking it and therefore men feeling the need to ACTIVELY distance themselves from it by publicly disparaging it.
@@IshtarNike the type of programming done today is more analogous to the electrical engineers designing the machines then. Comparing two different jobs with the same name and going "OH LOOK THEYRE DIFFERENT" lol
"Any Fire Emblem games after Awakening" I've been painfully call out. Also he was right about Dragon Age and Mass Effect series, Pokemon, Ace Attorney (very very right), Shin Megami Tensei, Persona, Professor Layton. My experience wasn't limited to those games, but surely they had the greatest impact, and I'm still a fan. Oblivion and Skyrim also had a very big impact on me, especially Oblivion but I don't know if I was exactly the target.
I think the things like Nikki series by Papergames and the "otome"/"joseimuke" game genres are a great example of how both the industry and "gamers" need to treats girls' games more seriously, and what happens when they do. It's so cool that when given the proper attention and investment you can have something like the upcoming Infinity Nikki, which by virtue of being an open-world dress-up game feels like it's opening up so many new frontiers for gaming in general.
I hope the success of animal crossing will be teaching everyone a thing or two… All my favorite games have allowed high levels of customization 💗💗💗 I’ll have to check that out!!!
Honestly, i found that otome games are interesting also because it seems that to develop a successful one, a company needs to truly UNDERSTAND what girls and women like and cater to it specifically. So many of them have so obvious themes like, self-love, female agency, building relationships, acceptance… i find it baffling how many non-otome game companies struggle to draw female players in, or can‘t write compelling romance or female characters for the life of them. in so many games, romance isn‘t even the main focus, but more of an ongoing side plot, but still people treat he entre like it’s nothing but strange straight women staring at pretty anime boys and nothing else. no one would treat a game for men like „oh they just want to shoot people and look at hot women“, but with female audiences, they do exactly that and then pretend women just don’t like games when their poorly made games don‘t sell…
Infinity Nikki sounds so neat but it looks kind of bleak in my opinion. Considering all the issues (not only performance ones) all the other Nikki games have I can't really see it happening
Thank you for bringing this topic to light! One game site I remember playing so much on as a kid was the Bella Sara website, which is now shut down. You could care for mythical online horses, and while there was no overarching way to "win," it just felt nice caring for creatures I liked to imagine I owned and loved. I also collected the trading cards that went with the site! When I was younger, I always fought so hard to not be considered a "girly" girl, and I realize how damaging that sense of masculine/feminine binary and the weak/strong connotations of that binary kept me from just enjoying the things I liked. Now, I just enjoy the things I'm interested in, whether it's marketed to my demographic or not. And I've felt so much more comfortable with myself and my hobbies since. Again, thanks for a great video. Well done.
Thank you for the Super Thanks, Ma! I'm so glad that you enjoyed the video! It is just as you say: at the end of the day, living into one's fullest self will bring one more inner-peace and comfort than any amount of conforming to the expectations of others. I hope the industry will become slowly more aware of that overtime, as well!
Yeah those sites were the best! I also really enjoyed online avtar type games like animal jam and movie star planet. I supposed they were meant to function more as chat forums rather than games but I mainly enjoyed the mini games and collector aspects of them :)
I'm sure there are plenty of UA-cam videos that touch on the female experience, but to find one so eloquently crafted BY A MAN was honestly so refreshing and I feel incredibly seen watching this video. You certainly do your research and it shows in the quality. I love love love your content and can't wait to see what you put out next!
For the girls' game experiences, you forgot DDR! My entire childhood was DDR on Xbox and then Rock Band on 360. Also those Facebook games all kinda based on Farmville with a different skin over it. I remember a Hunger Games one that was just as bizarre as "Hunger Games Farmville" sounds. I was also waiting for Webkinz - literally all of my AFAB friends growing up (very late millennial/early Z) had Webkinz. But otherwise, yeah, flash games, Barbie games, Minecraft - all very accurate, and I've definitely been called out 😂
I have vague memories of helping my little sister play Barbie games like a secret agent stealth game that was a poor man's Metal Gear Solid. Good times. In retrospect, and based on what I have seen from that game's fanbase, it is kind of incredible the stealth genre never gained a reputation as a female-targeted genre. No, really, think about the absurd levels of male fanservice in those stealth suits, how crazy girls are for secret agent stuff (there's a reason James Bond gets all the ladies), and how the emphasis of a stealth game is essentially to avoid violence and confrontation but still come out on top and empowered through clever manipulation. All of these things should make them an obvious draw for the female audience. Yet you don't really see that association until you see the female section of the fanbase and it all clicks.
In most games I have the oportunity to be stealthy I absolutely will be. There are different aspects I love about it, from the tense moments when you're trying not to get caught to the satisfaction of getting through a level as if you were never even there, to the excitement of being able to secretly take out everyone without anyone noticing until it's too late. But the best part is having to figure out how to actually do it, it's the same with strategy games, puzzle games or tycoon games, having to put thought into what I'm doing is fun, especially when it works out well. I have no idea why girl games were reduced to dressing up and taking care of babies or animals when super cool stealthy games were right there.
THANK YOU for the compassionate way you talk about little girls and their interests. I was a little girl once who liked video games and almost gave up on it completely because of all the toxicity and bullying. I grew up with a twin brother, so the „boys‘ things are much more important than your silly little girl interests and either you quit the girliness or you can‘t do boy things“ was pretty much the sound of my childhood. I‘m only a young adult now, but when I look back I often see that to this day, little girls or female teenagers are interestingly pushed towards stereotypically feminine by culture, marketing, parents and so on quite a lot - but on the other hand, very frequently ridiculed and shamed for actually enjoying „frivolous girly things“. When I was a kid, no one asked what I liked when I said that I was looking for my first games to play, they just told me what they thought i SHOULD like. Hearing a grown man talk about girls and their interests as a demographic with nothing but respect for both the people and the things… it genuinely makes me happy. Without people like you, I never would have had the courage to pursue my interest in games all the way into adulthood.
I highly doubt you experienced any bullying for your interest in video games since boys/men don't care about the gender of gamers, that said I suspect you're just looking for sympathy. Also it's the fault of girls women for being interested in stereotypically feminine things, stereotypes exist for a reason you know.
@@MetaKnight964 It‘s a little sad that people still tell me „oh the bullying was your fault since you also liked girly things, pick a side“. I was eight. No eight year old deserves to have friends or family or teachers tell them to quit their favourite hobby. That, obviously, includes all the little boys who get bullied or reprimanded or ridiculed for „girl“ interests, too. Well, a world we live in. I hope you have a nice day.
@@MetaKnight964wow, it’s so cool that you know this person’s life better than she does! That’s wild, are you a psychic or something? (Oh, and, P.S., as another female gamer, I can assure you that she is completely correct and guy gamers do care about gender and can be really shitty about it)
@@ally939 He said "I doubt", meaning he's doubting the interpretation. Maybe he thought the word "bullying" was exaggerated. Sadly because of Twitt*r's crazy people everyone is questioning people's intentions and suspecting it's for attention only. Anyway sure in online lobbies with teenagers they could get too much excited and say nonsense if they hear a girl's voice but like in school or anything ? Never heard about such situations, but again I don't remember that many girls openly playing video games
@@chaotickreg7024 my girlfriend bought dwarf fortress when it released on steam in december. combined we have put ~335 hours into the game so far. dwarf fortress is a girl game!
I always wanted to game when I was younger more often, but I found that rarely there were more feminine games that were affordable + on whatever console I had + interesting + could easily teach me how to play. Whereas the boys in my grade had endless options and their brothers taught them how to play! I tried to ask my neighbors, all male, to teach me, but they’d just berate me and take the controller away. It left me feeling isolated! Finally as an adult I have returned to trying to learn how to play, and I’ve gotten pretty good! I learned how to play on games like the uncharted series, and moved onto BOTW and OOT to practice my combat, and now I’m playing skyward sword. I have been also playing overwatch for awhile now, and while I don’t play competitively, I can keep up with really high ranking team members! And it makes me so happy to see so many other women feel included and represented in the newer games. I see a lot more female players now than I ever did in the past. I really enjoyed this video, thanks for sharing!
That makes me glad. I always hated the getting mad when people didn't get it or had a hard time thing. I was raised as a boy so I was able to learn to play games in a better way but still was always drawn to being able to pick the girl characters (as soon as i got over the social pressure from other boys to pick male characters) and loved more girly games too (like nintendogs + cats). Zelda is my favorite by far and even though some see the games start or companions as annoying i do think if you are new to gaming they really help. Its such a shame that such a large part of the population gets excluded.
To try and give a different perspective on your childhood experience: Most people learn games via trial by fire, even those with older siblings. Teaching someone that doesn't even have the basics is frustrating due to that, and younger gamers will almost invariably express their frustration without thinking and try to teach by showing without asking. That said, some are just dicks and would rather turn the frustrating experience that they don't know how to handle into one that is just fun for themselves. Both are quite inconsiderate, but I'm sure at least some of your neighbors were the former and likely tried to do the right thing in the wrong way. To elaborate on "even those with older siblings." Older siblings and older gamers in general are more humanoid training wheels and hint books rather than teachers. My older sister, for example, would get me past parts of Yoshi's Island that I just couldn't do, and I could watch her play. My cousins (also girls) taught me about the flute in Mario Bros 3. My grandma showed me how to get to Star Road in Mario World. Otherwise, I was on my own, especially if I was playing an RPG. Still, that's quite the opposite experience to yours, and maybe that was due to being the youngest of a family that played games or maybe because I was the only boy in a female dominant family. I honestly have no idea which. Anyways, that doesn't change the isolated feeling you had at the time, and I'm sorry you went through that. Congratulations on the eventual breakthrough into gaming! Nintendo and Naughy Dog were the right choices for learning, and I hope you continue to find more wonderful games and genres that interest you.
I remember being a kid and wanting a Minecraft book that my teacher was giving away (someone had lost it months before and never claimed it). I showed up to shoot my shot at getting the book and was IMMEDIATELY met with protests because "Girls don't play Minecraft!" Teacher took one look at this and gave me the book right there. It definitely got those boys to shut up!
I love BioWare so much because DA and Mass Effect are the only AAA games that make me feel like I'm part of their demographic and not just an after-thought
The dragon age series is very similar. It was written for both male, and female protagonist in mind. Also, most MMORPGS are similar. You can create whatever character you want, and can make your own adventure.
@Weyland Punani It's not about being upset about how not everything's for "me", it's disappointment on the fact NOTHING is. I'm not saying I don't enjoy male-centric games, I'm just saying that I congratulate BioWare for thinking of more diverse stories that see me as an equal consumer. I'm not whining at all, but I guess you can't relate
I noticed something interesting about the girl game list you mentioned(2:50). None of the games listed came from a popular animated tv show geared toward girls(with the exception of Hamtaro). I was kind of expecting a Kim Possible or Totally Spies game to make the list.
I've often wondered why so many specifically girly games came off as shovelware. I never knew about the history with purple moon or the other studios that Mattel bought out. It really puts the concept of games for girls into a new light.
There's a lot that wasn't touched on here. For instance how many girl games were developed by male developers, and just low budget versions of "boy" games but with a pink coat of paint, very uninspired by people who didn't want to work on them. Rushed copy+paste games. Then there's this idea that girls want the same gameplay as guys, but with mindnumbingly easy difficulty (that's an issue that still plagues today's games, like hello kitty kruisers). The girl games that are actually good were either very serious attempts to really capture what girls wanted.... or they're japanese games localized into english because they've pretty much nailed it.
this is a fantastic video. as a girl gamer who is widely turned off by most "girly games", but is also losing interest in every other game that i've exhausted, i can definitively say that quality girls games are sorely needed!! i will be sharing this with everyone i know lol
@@BlackbeltHitoshithey are probably turned off by them because of the quality and so having higher quality “girly games” will peek their interest and make it enjoyable for them
as another woman gamer I can tell you that I have found new joy in games that let you build up your home and town by doing whatever in it. Try My time at Portia and My time at Sandrock, and also Slime Rancher 1&2, those are all relatively new games not even marketed at girls but are just slow paced, not competetive and focus on the stories and cute crap to get/do. I'm approaching 30 so am I clearly not the market for those but damn do I love them.
Where in the world is Carmen Sandeigo and other edutainment games attracted both male and female young kids in the 90's. Carmen was one of the first major female prolific gaming characters, years before Laura croft took the market by storm in the mid 90's. Another great video.
I have a lady friend who says she likes Crusader Kings 2 a lot. Specifically she cited the fact that marriage existed as a mechanic as a big reason why she enjoys it. Im sure that the game's social engine has lots of potential as a draw for girls in the tween and up demographics
It's basically a high-stakes version of the game children play where they grab two dolls and shout "now kiss!" Unless you're playing a Greek character. Then you spend even more time cutting out bits from the dolls.
Hoo boy she will like the third game then! Like, the new detailed models on top of all the intrigue. :) It's why I prefer it myself. There's even cosmetic options and a photo booth! It's funny because for the uninitiated, I usually shorthand what CK is as Sims meets RISK, played in Excel with pretty graphics.
I cried several times. you have spoken to several things about girlhood and gaming that i have never been able to fully articulate or name myself. i love characters and in dragon age i only walk around so i can hear my cool hot friends talk to each other (also so i can blow up someone artfully, which is another valid human desire) and when i transitioned from webkinz and dress up games into the more masculine skyrim and assassins creed, i made up the difference of the lacking character development by writing my own stories in my head about the characters and thinking about them. i wish girly games weren't seen as guilty pleasure activities and instead celebrated for their unique mechanics and strengths. having friends is fun! romance with imaginary people is fun! having a cute simple little home with a simple little life is fun! i feel like the same ideas apply to more than just games, but toys, clothes, movies, and beyond im so glad this video exists 🥰
i blame it on 80s propaganda boys blue girls pink thingy. in reality taste is acquired and fantasy is universal and there's nothing manly or girly on brick stacking game. also i kinda hate the "unnecessary" gender stereotyped stuff that hold no grounds and divisive like barbie toys. i mean we all enjoyed the movies but the dolls set price man yikes, we got better value by playing sims instead. in fact, wait a sec, the stereotyped plays are around playing house and tea party, are they (marketers) just. . . pushing feudal noble's games to everyone? like hunting for boys/ men and tea party for girls/ women?
the fact that you listed every single game I played and some of my present day faves in the first minutes means I am legally obligated to share this with all my friends lmao
"Maybe it's a problem, Sherry, that little girls DON'T like to play games that slaughter entire planets" has the same energy as Yahtzee Croshaw's "What is it with you and NOT stabbing people?"
@@willferrous8677 I just wanted to comment here to say I see you. I don't get their responses either. The entire point was maybe the problem is girls are too passive
Thanks for making a video on a potentially controversial topic and bringing this to light! Its very true, just make good games and don't worry about overgendering them. Im a woman gamer since the 90s and I actually had never heard of pretty much all of these games 😂 I played a lot of city builder esque games like Age of Empires 2, Pharaoh, SIM Safari (and Ant, Farm, and Earth but actually not Sims) and then Assassin's Ceeed, Mass Effect, Skyrim, Dark Souls, etc. My favorite shooters were Golden Eye, COD Zombies, and PUBG. The classic Lara Croft / Tomb Raider games never appealed to me UNTIL Square Enix released their version and I ate it up. I had actually always played as male characters when given the choice in games, but when I played as Lara in Square Enix's Tomb Raider I felt like a badass and not hyper sexualized. It was neat to actually experience a strong female character. And in Mass Effect ofc I was Fem Shep 😏 Although seeing a game in pink is an instant turn off because I don't enjoy the old stereotype of "girly", ill be dammed if horses arent universally enjoyed by women 😂
You're not the only one, I haven't played those games either and this list angered me (something that rarely happens), so your calmness impresses me! I think Moon does not comprehend/paint the "female" gamer experience well. But I guess that it's hard to grasp when you've not been through it. Even so, a lot of this reinforces gender stereotypes, one of the things that are the most harmful to video games in my opinion. So I'm feeling pretty frustrated right now
@@wjsa4l941 I understand your frustration-I myself am a big CRPG- and indie-head who played maybe just 2 games off that list-but the list was never meant to be exhaustive (and Moon even specifies that he's listing games explicitly targeted towards women-"explicitly targeted towards" being the operative words here, not "women"). Women aren't a monolith, so for every person who feels represented by the list, there are others who don't-and that's ok. The existence of one doesn't preclude the other. And I personally think we gotta move past the whole second-wave thing where we try to distance ourselves from feminine things because we conceive of them as inherently inferior to neuter or masculine things-I get it, it was a survival tactic in a world hostile to us, but we gotta move past it. There's room in the gaming sphere for both enjoyment of stereotypically feminine games and games that reject gendered stereotypes-and if there isn't, we should be making space for it.
I am a male guy and I LOVE THE SIMS (the older ones without excessive DLCs) and Cities Skyline, i love decorate and make the cities and houses how i seems fit and try my best to make them look pretty, it doesn't make less of a guy or something like that, i just like make things look good I think that more games that should apeel to this aspect should be made indeed but like you said, without pull for a gender or another, just let people have fun as they seems fit
@@4rumani maybe he meant manly man? As in, generally displaying stereotypically male characteristics and enjoying stereotypically masculine things but still loving The Sims, which are for some reason considered "girly" games.
It was so weird to see you sum up me and my friends's gaming experiences as kids. Fun thing is, Barbie Fashion Designer was so formative for me lol. I work as a designer in the fashion industry now because I loved that game so much, and because I discovered I had an eye for colour combinations through that game. I feel so weirdly seen, it's hilarious.
Dang that’s pretty neat how those formative gaming years shape a person. It would be cool to do a deep dive into peoples first games to see what kind of career path they took and see if the games they played had any correlation.
@@dynogamergurl I'd love for someone to do that tbh. It'd be so interesting to see if there's a correlation, and how people's first games shaped them. Personally, I think there's a correlation in a lot of cases, although it might not be obvious at first glance. For example, if someone's first game was Age of Empires II or Civilization or something like that - then perhaps they discovered a talent for strategy and planning, and ended up using that through their job as a teacher, politician, project manager, or developer. The correlation would probably be really obvious if the person became a politician or project manager, and less obvious if they were a teacher.
For me it was Bratz The Movie on PS2. I am a designer now because of the Design a Tshirt and Poster feature in that game, as well as loads of quests that gave me the liberty to come up with makeup, hair and outfits. Games like that one made me really appreciate games and now I'm working in the industry as a character designer!
Haha I took Graphic Design in school and have a love for computers and became a PC gamer because of the Barbie Fashion Design game. I'm calling it a game. ❤❤
There aren't many "girls' games" in the Western market (if you ignore dating sims, etc. targeted at teenage girls and young women) but in Japan, there's an entire genre of games called otome games ("otome" means "maiden") and although most of them fall into the romance category, there are some that focus on other kinds of relationships and have adventure, mystery, etc. elements. Lots of idol rhythm games (like IDOLiSH7, for example) are also targeted at teenage girls. Also, this was a really interesting video to watch, as someone who LOVED playing dress-up games as a kid. It's really sad and honestly frustrating how the gaming industry, one that is meant to bring fun to everyone, overlooks and almost ignores the young female demographic. I'm not super into games but it still frustrates me how we girls and women are practically ignored or treated like an afterthought in yet another industry.
As a woman that's into gaming, I concur, Otome slaps. It's just a shame that tons of good Otome games won't get officially released in english nor translated at all. It motivated me to try and learn japanese so I can get games aimed at women, since in western market there's not a lot of titles that scratch that itch. The closest thing to good games aimed at women in western market would probably be platformers. Alice madness returns (ea doesnt have faith in the market for this game so they cancelled the sequel), A hat in time, ori and the blind forest. Cute/beautiful games that invoke emotions.
Man I only log into Star Stable about once every other month these days but I have been a lifetime "star rider" member since... 2014 I think? It really is quite charming and relaxing (with chat closed at least)
The Portal series is kind of sort of (in a really deep-dive, non-surface level way) about a toxic relationship between mother and daughter against the backdrop of STEM. For that reason alone I'd say it's a must-play for any woman even slightly interested in video games, to say nothing of how good the games are beside the themes.
It's funny that although everyone is aware that the protag of Portal IS a woman, people don't see it as a game oriented towards women. Also, our villain is also vocalized by a woman but because it doesn't have all the window dressing & gender coding oriented at girls/women, people don't see it that way. And, I don't know if it's me, but I feel LOTS of women truly enjoy puzzle & strategy games. That dopamine tends to hit me HARD which is why when Moon mentioned Ace Attorney, I choked a bit. lol Also yes, i have a portal gun. (They physically coded our Protag as Latina or mixed race so I latched on it REAL fast as a latina myself.)
I adored this video! One thing: as a former little girl who played and loved Purple Moon games, the demographic for those games was nerd girls who already weren't into stereotypically girly things. I never cared about shopping and dating as a kid. I wanted soft, unscary games (monsters freaked me out) that were about friends and exploring and problem solving, not about boys and dresses. Purple Moon already had a market, but the issue is they were targeting the age range where girls are most stereotypical. Few of us existed. It was a small but adoring market.
Thank you for covering this! You made me realize that, even tought I grew up tomboy, creative games and dress-up games where indeed some of my favourite growing up, especially since only as an adult I could afford my dream console line, the DS and 3DS, and catching up on that amazing long awaited Pokemon and Cooking Mama action. So instead of Xbox or Playstation, I had Ourworld, Whirled, Kongregate, Armor Games, Nitrome (really love Nitrome's cohesive library) and so so much more I can barely name since I was 11 and barely knew English at the time to tell you.
I’m a gen z girl so I’ve never experienced Barbie Fashion designer but it sounds like something I would have loved as a kid. If it were to be remade it could include features like teaching kids how to make the outfit they designed for themselves and their barbie step by step and giving them a runway tutorial so them and their barbies could be models. 🥰
Oooh i love that! Sewing instructions based on what you make in the game. That would be such a useful tool for me as an adult who likes sewing! Just like i've once built my irl flat in the Sims in order to look how i could rearrange my furniture. :) Games can be so useful, as a sideeffect to the FUN they're mainly about :)
That part about men enjoying "girls games" mechanics without realizing was quite the revelation to me because I never thought of it before. Taking a quick look at the TF2 community as a whole and how dressing up the mercenaries became one of the core aspects of the game, for some even beyond the core gameplay, goes to show that there are many men who enjoy dress-up games even if they're unaware of it. I have a friend who was absolutely obsessed with the dress-up aspects of TF2, and even to this day he still enjoys dressing up his mercenaries in cool loadouts as plenty of the community does, yet I bet he would never think of himself as someone who could enjoy a girly game that revolves around dressing up a character. And while TF2 is probably the most glaring example, dress-up elements are present in many games with a primarily male demographic who enjoys those aspects, even back in the day when GTA San Andreas was still new, being able to dress CJ in a wide variety of clothes and give him hairstyles, while minuscule parts of the game, are still things I enjoyed doing and that contributed to my enjoyment of it.
Your comment about GTA is exactly the issue. You're willing to play a dressup minigame but would you play the GTA Online character creator if there was no game afterward?
People do NOT realise how fun it is to express yourself through fashion and design. Ah yes, designing armour and imagining the nuance of how blood and dirt would splatter it, 'girly' hobby.
@@galaxyjam3742 That's not how a dressup game works though. You dont pick armour and see your hero dressed in it... you pick some pixels and then start again. You probably dont think reloading in an FPS is stupid but would you play a reloading game where you press X to watch an animation? What if you could only dress a Barbie but never play with it? That's what we call a "girl game".
@@SeekerGoldstone Bad take. For starters, yes I would watch a gun being reloaded because the noises and motion is satisfying. Secondly, dress up games are so much more than that, you DO get to see the result, and ARMOUR IS STILL DRESS, DRESSING UP CHARACTERS IN ARMOUR IS STILL DRESSING THEM UP?????? DID YOU MISS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE VIDEO???????
@@galaxyjam3742 The hypothetical reloading game is a bad game. Only picking clothes is a bad game. Dressing your hero in armour is a tiny piece of the whole game that is meaningful because the rest of the game exists. Looking at a thumbnail of a shirt and clicking on it to see a 3d render isnt the same as picking a shirt to cross unknown lands in. If I dont have a reason to care about who the character is or what they do, what am I picking a shirt for in the first place? I am happy to pick a shirt and go shoot guys in it. I'm not interested in pressing X to pick shirts or tapping R1 to cause gibs. A game needs a gameplay loop.
Just wanted to chime in as a millenial who grew up playing, yes, the sims, but also strategy games like age of empires and heroes of might and magic, and had "girls nights" where me and my best friend played mario on her projector screen until we crashed... good times lol 😌 I never identified with "girly" things like barbie/pink/glitter, and "girls games" being so extremely stereotypical back then definitely scared me off of them -- which probably contributed in some small way to the same internalized misogyny that made me shun twilight, dresses, romance media, and other "girly" things that objectively have merit (yes, even twilight). If these things, including girls games, were taken seriously by adults back then -- were well-crafted, marketed with nuance, thoughtfully reviewed and discussed with respect -- I wouldn't have had to miss out. Not only that, I wouldn't have had to struggle accepting the sides of myself that society categorizes as "girly". I think there are a lot of women and girls like me out there -- I loved, and still do love, adventure, storytelling, strategy, logistics and historical and high fantasy settings. There needs to be space for women in these categories (and when there are no AAA adventure/strategy games specifically for women, "boy games" have to accomodate us, which leads to internet vitriol from men/boys). But I think what me and my friend loved the most was the "constructive" aspect of these games. Building stuff up instead of tearing it down. I feel this is an essential part of most "girls games", that gamers and devs of these games understand intuitively, but is overlooked when the larger gaming community talks about what makes a game "girly". It is not at all an exclusively girly trait, just as competition is not exclusively boyish, but to me it feels incrediblycentral to any discussion on girly/boyish games. Thank you for an incredibly thoughtful, well-researched and well-argued video! Love reading all the perspectives in the comments as well. This was long overdue!
Omg I forgot about how much I liked heroes and by extension starcraft. I was young and never got very far but I had hours of fun building little alien cities and clicking on pots of gold.
You raise an interesting point in that the central theme to “girly games” was building. When I think of the games I loved growing up, they all had something to do with building or creation. I was never interested in fps games personally, but I liked building and controlling my own world (like sims and civilisation). Never thought about that before, so thanks for that!
Thank you for this video! I am sad that girl/woman gamers are highly underrated target group in this industry and we get mocked about it too. I myself have always preferred games that are fairly easy to learn and have lots of things to see, not forgetting well written story. As kid I loved Commander Keen and Jazz the Jackrabbit, Mario and Zelda games and when Final Fantasy VII was launched on PS1 I was sold and have been a Final Fantasy fangirl ever since. I love games where main purpose isn't fighting but exploring and adventuring, learning new skills and interacting with other characters. If fighting system is too complicated or fighting takes too much time in game I lose interest quickly. And I have to admit that graphics and drawing style play high role here; I like more of a soft, cartoonish style than realistic and edgy. I'm more than happy about the rise of the cozy games like Stardew Valley and Slime Rancher and I think the most important thing in gaming isn't winning or being the best, but having fun and enjoying the game itself.
This reminds me of when I got into running tabletop D&D games and had a group of young male players. One expressed astonishment that Id prepared stories and characters because all of the games he had been in had only focused on combat. Some of us have a ton of fun without narratives, dress up and social interactions, and some of us have a ton of fun without combat, competition and high stakes, but I have to imagine most of us want some degree of both.
tbf a bunch of japanese companies started developing massively successful games marketed towards older women, usually office women mobile otome games like mystic messenger, ensemble stars, twisted wonderland, idolosh7, a3!, etc etc are all games developed within the past 5-10 years that have produced an extremely popular and profitable industry, but most of them remain popular only in eastern countries. unfortunately most attempts to bring these games over to an english speaking audience haven’t been as widely successful, possibly because of the stigma labeling them as “girl games”
Otome games are growing very fast here as well; albeit not keeping up with the insane demand in Japan/Korea/China. Aksys for example has basically pivoted their entire company to pretty much just localizing otome games and other girly games (such as pretty princess).
@@EvidentlyThinking A lot of *mobile* otome games are korean, you're right. But on consoles they're pretty much all japanese, and the otome genre comes from japan as well (hence the name).
I find it interesting how a lot of the more recent games you mentioned as the "girly" games from peoples childhood, are the same ones that are some of the biggest games in the world. Fortnite, VALORANT and League of Legends do have pretty big female audiences considering the latter twos reputation for being highly competitive and not being traditionally what a AAA game company would consider to be a "game for girls", and I think its kind of indicative of games now trying to appeal to wider audiences, rather than JUST guys or JUST girls. It could also just indicate more women are cementing themselves in genres traditionally considered to be entirely male dominated (MOBAs and Shooters). Either way, the demographics are definitely changing and that's pretty exciting. Despite that, it would still be nice to see more games specifically catered towards a female audience as more variety of games and more variety in the people that play them is always a good thing.
Well, there are a lot of games that are much more specific to a female audience AND leaves some room for other genders. I’ll recommend you to Obey Me! and Twisted Wonderland. They aren’t necessarily romantic and how the characters address their protagonists are gender-neutral. They are a niche part of a group of girl games called joseimuke.
As a trans woman still recovering from being raised male and from complex trauma, thank you so much for affirming the value of femininity. I’m so glad that we’re having this cultural moment right now where women are coming to embrace femininity despite so much social pressure to be more “masculine” and reject it altogether.
I feel like point and click adventure games in general were popular with the female demographic. And, interestingly, they often had female protagonists as well (I'm thinking of The Longest Journey, Syberia, Still Life and Culpa Innata in particular). I was quite obsessed with them as a teenager!
Super Princess Peach was my childhood passion and I truly think it would be successful if done over today with all of the hype around the franchise right now - it was an amazing game with so many more mechanics than the typical Mario games at the time, forever will it hold a special place in my heart
@@wombatpandaa9774 that would be (in my opinion) the best case scenario, but I’m not hopeful for that happening, still, I’m absolutely looking forward to whatever the outcome is nonetheless!
As a guy, I’m still confounded by the fact that there had never been a Legend of Zelda game where you actually play as Zelda. Another Peach game will probably happen before Nintendo ever lets you as the title character of the Zelda franchise in something that’s not a Dynasty Warriors
I wanted to protest at first: I'm a woman in my 30s, and I grew up playing Mario Bros., Sonic, etc, and never played Hamtaro or Nancy Drew games. But when you started to mention a lot of the games that aren't specifically marketed towards girls but seem to be popular among girls and women (Neopets, Stardew Valley, Team Fortress 2) I felt targeted lol. I'm happy that in my family, video games were never seen as a masculine hobby. My mother doesn't enjoy video games, because she doesn't enjoy any games whatsoever because she is a sore loser. But she would never stop me or consider video games masculine. However, there was budget concerns, so I grew up playing a lot of older games. Played on NES and Atari in the late 90s. Don't get me wrong: she definitely has some outdated ideas about gender, and wanted to put me in frilly dresses and considered sports for boys, but video games were gender neutral in her eyes. When I got a chipped Playstation as a gift from my estranged father, he had gotten me a wide variety of pirated games without any consideration for age or genre. Some were good, some were bad. But since pirating didn't always work, he had told my younger half-brother to pick a game from a store for me. My brother, who was about 9 years old back then, picked "Barbie Super Sports" because I was a girl... I didn't like being stereotyped like that by my brother, and the game was SO boring. Thankfully, a lot of the pirated games worked, so I could spend more time on Monster Rancher 2, Spyro 3 and Disney's Tarzan instead - until I could afford buying games of my own. I can really recognise myself in those 90s gamer girls you quoted. I felt enough pressure from society to like pink and dresses and makeup as it were. Video games were a haven from that. I wanted to collect cool animals (Pokémon/Monster Rancher/Neopets), jump my way through cool level designs (Mario/Sonic/Spyro) or just lose myself in a timeless puzzle game (Arkanoid/Tetris/Puzzle Pirates). So, as an adult when I finally got around to play Mass Effect, I enjoyed it a lot. I could pick a female protagonist, but not be assumed to like frilly and pink stuff.
Even in games like Mass Effect though, every now and then interactions seem odd because the game just assumes you’re gonna play as the male character. Every tutorial or playthrough or description of the game was using the male character too. From the games mentioned here I only used to play the Sims but since have been playing male oriented games, where I can only play as a white male character. It’s so boring!
This was incredibly validating for someone like me who has loved games since a young age! My favorites were Tomb Raider and The Sims and Skyrim and, of course, I enjoyed playing with Barbies in general! And you can see the similarities between them! I understand that Tomb Raider was originally targeted towards boys, but for me, it was a game mostly for girls. In Tomb Raider, I could have everything I wanted. Lara was an independent girl doing what she liked, exploring contemplative and silent places, and having a beautiful home to return to. She was smart, could solve riddles, and protect herself - a truly revolutionary game that, in my opinion, should have been marketed more towards girls than boys. It's disheartening that Lara's image took a different turn in marketing campaigns. Lately, I've been feeling this way a lot. While I do enjoy games specifically targeted at males, I also desire something less combative - a game where I can relax, enjoy exploration, and immerse myself in the world. I would love an outstanding sci-fi game without combat. I don't understand why every sci-fi game has to involve war in the story. Can't we just chill? Can't I have a beautiful house in a futuristic space colony? You're absolutely right; many of the best "girl" games come from indie developers. There's one in development called LOFTIA, a cyberpunk + cottagecore Animal Crossing-The Sims-type game, and I'm eagerly looking forward to it! While I appreciate shooting and fighting games, sometimes I just want to chill. Unfortunately, there aren't many games like that, apart from The Sims. Even the Tomb Raider reboots seemed to shift towards being more targeted at boys again, and that turned me off from them. I'm just saddened that the industry doesn't produce games like this. Apologies for the rant, and thank you so much for creating this video!
So you just want a game you can be immersed in thats sci-fi and not action oriented? What's the most fun, or value, that you think you should get out of a game and for what reason? I'm doing a little research, and I wanted to have some anecdotes
@@c.dl.4274 My ideal game would be a Sims-like experience with realistic graphics set in fantasy worlds, such as Skyrim or futuristic settings. For example, imagine a futuristic fantasy game where you reside in a space colony. You engage in various life simulation activities, like living in a house, interacting with people and animals, and working (the Sims aspect). Simultaneously, there's a storyline you can follow at your discretion (Skyrim aspect), featuring action, adventure, and riddles. While Skyrim was almost the perfect game for me, the absence of the life simulation aspect left me yearning for a more immersive experience in that world.
I remember being so excited for Barbie's Horse game, but playing it realized it wasn't high quality like the games my dad and I played so I put it down and never got another one. I would have loved having better quality girl games growing up, the want was there
Lately I've appreciated the Atelier series a lot, it's really confident in building its own girl-centric power fantasy around experimentation and mastery of robust crafting systems. The otome influences are very prevalent and make the characters appealing and comfy.
They toned down the male fanservice a bit recently though, so hopefully they've seen a growth in female/non-binary players and its a reflection of that
@@ystacalden The only fanservice I remember seeing is in the Ryza series, so since that's done now, I'm guessing Atelier as a whole will go back more to what it used to be. Don't remember seeing any particular fanservice in Arland, Dusk, or Mysterious myself unless I missed something.
@@AK-lg8fj you definitely missed, the Arland series has so much it actually kinda ruins the series for me because other than that i really love the games! I've only played Ayesha of Dusk and it was slightly more toned down x
As a woman that grew up on the girl games that emerged in the late 2000's/early 2010's, this video is an amazing homage to a period in gaming that seems far gone.💔 I also want to mention how healing and satisfying it is for my soul, that you, a guy, talks about and respects more feminine games, seeing that (from my POV) there's currently, and have always been, such uncalled for toxicity against feminine themes and "girly" gameplay in games. Unless it's sexualised of course, then it gets a pass from the boys, but guys don't like it when we talk about that part. 😅 🥰
This has really got me thinking. It's INSANE we don't have non-shovelware, non-mobile horse games. Regular farming simulators sell well enough. You'd think by now there'd be a horse ranching sim where you raise and sell horses. I always liked turning my farm into a ranch in HM: Animal Parade and selling those horses for profit. It would be fun. I also wish we had more breeding/raising games. I really, really miss the chao garden from SA2B. I loved tamagotchis. I've always wanted a pokemon game revolving around breeding... Or research, you know? A pokemon research game, or a monster hunter research game, where it's about observation rather than battle, I'd really love that. There's so much potential that's just not acknowledged.
There's two UA-camrs with those focuses I can think of! Rattle covers horse games specifically (sometimes dabbling in other things here and there) and Seri! Pixel Biologist has an array of animal-based games in her library! Poke around and see what you can find that interests you!
I'm a bit late to this comment, but Black Desert Online has an extremely deep horse training and breeding system, to the point that a sizeable minority of players ignore the combat and just breed horses.
One thing I **Love** about the Style Savvy series is that's a high quality dressup game with tens thousands of items, you're allowed to mix and match how you see fit, the characters are always kind to you, and nothing is sexualized. Even the item that is literally just a bikini top? You can just...wear it. Of course its one of the items meant for layering, but you just wear it. And there'd be nothing bad. And I **love** that.
I asked for Fashion Forward as a 9 year old, I got it and was addicted and I still play it occasionally. It’s a really relaxing and pretty game tbh. I thought I was the only person in America who was into it, but here we are!
My family had a tradition that during winter when it started snowing outside, my mom, my sisters and I, the little brother, would all play a new Nancy Drew game on the family desktop. I never gave a single thought to them being "games for girls," because to me, they were just mysterious, fun, and adventurous as all heck. I think I'll buy a Nancy Drew game to relive the good times. Haunted Carousel sounds fun!
I love long reflective video essays, but it is extremely rare to find a guy talk so lovingly about a genre that is painfully neglected. This actually made my day a little more fun! My partner and I are obsessed with Japanese games because it goes HARD on being overly "feminine", it's awesome! I love a good horror game (female characters get the spotlight more often, and are far cooler in roles of an enemy), but sometimes you just want to gush over how cute and well designed things are in a game. Violent games frankly get boring after a while, but slice of life stuff makes you appreciate the small mundane things. Cute outfits, talking to and obsessing over a lovely npc, the horses!! And those fashion games definitely influenced me into making my own clothes, a skill that I am very proud of. I'm so glad I clicked on this video :D
This video just popped on my for you page and I as a cis-women I got to say that I teared up when you talked about girly games being valuable. So much of the female experience is about being denied the value in "feminine" things. That it is somehow worth less and i am so happy that you talked about this. Definetly subscribed bc of this and also yes i played those exact game as a child. 😭♥️
No se si sirva, pero "Time princess" es un juego donde puedes entrar a distintas historias, aún no han hecho alguno de Jane Austen pero sí de Mujercitas, por ejemplo, y otros parecidos
It would be fantastic. Maybe Tell Tale or the like can do this, instead of doing Batman which already has amazing games and GoT... Which, FromSoftware just did Elden Ring and showed how to do a game like that properly. So maybe Tell Tale should try to make an interactive version of a classic. They don't even have to pay for licensing rights for those. They won't be able to sell the game to all the bois who wanna shoot and blow stuff up (Well let's face it, some gents will still buy it), but a lot of women, non binary people, and members of the LGBTQIA community would totally totally eat that stuff up.. They'll make a lot of money, and if you're a guy who wants his mom, GF, sister, female boss, female coworker, female friend, etc. You know what to get her for her birthday and or Christmas... Bam! Just freaking do it, I wish I can someone produce this. Girls like reading, it's the absolute truth. It's not about partying and dress up really... It's a good narrative with partying and dress up lol 🤣
So this is the second Moon Channel video I've watched that left me with stories to tell and thoughts to think (takes that I might or might not elaborate on). Taking a page from HAWP, I found my desire for dress-up in the _Saints Row_ series. There's a false (erroneous?) game tip that explains you get Respect (the game's generic score value) for changing outfits, and I took that to heart. It was important to look the part, whether meeting a rival gang in full regalia at a boulevard summit, or lunching with the accountants while discussing next years budget or even hopping out on a scooter to grap a pack of smokes at the corner mart. I made sure I was color-coordinated for all occasions.
Alice from The Mane Quest here THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS 😭❤
You've hit various nails exactly on the head, and I hugely appreciate the shoutout to my work 💕💕💕
Wow, what an honor! I'm so grateful for the work that you do, Alice: it is my pleasure to share it. It is not an exaggeration to say that my opinion on horse games and girls games owes a lot to your influence!
For my viewers, I encourage you to learn all about horse games from Alice too, at: www.themanequest.com/
@@moon-channel I was super psyched to see this exists!!! I love seeing my work have impact like this, it brings me SO much joy 🥰🥰
aaaaaaa HII
As for specially girly game - I like the idea of "time princess". It's a game combining dress-up with text quests, where the main character dresses up as character of various stories and investigates them along with her cats. I wish there were some more interesting mechanics though.
@@annasolovyeva1013 and some of the stories teach some actual history!
This sort of thing is exactly why I'm happy to see the rise of indie games. Not for girls' games _specifically,_ but because indie games don't get so tied up in out of touch "market research" and what they think will make the most money.
Big companies have always been a bit rubbish when it comes to interesting games.
indies tend to follow a specific market and excels at it unlike majority of triple a that caters for everyone being the jack of all trades & master of none, the possibility that a girly indie game might release in the near future is very likely
@@testhekid They're are more like the early days where intrinsic feeling about what's right will find an audience.
I kept thinking of "Unpacking" and how it's so relaxing and rewarding when you place everything correctly. I don't think I've ever thought of it as a girly game but, to be honest? I think it checkes all the "requirements"
@@matiassanchez1362 You could consider it more unisex.
One thing I’ve never understood is publishers saying the female market isn’t good, while sims 4 has sold more than 30 million copies and is one of the biggest franchises in gaming. I’ve always played games, everything from sims, to every lotr game under the sun, wow, to star stables. However my favorites will forever be simulations + survival. The market exists, they just don’t want to.
And the amount of girlies pirating all the Sims too!! It’s defo not a negligible number.
What games do you recommend? I've become interested in survival games (most recently Vintage Story) and am still looking for really good life/work/society simulations (most recently Democracy 3).
I’ve noticed that as well. A lot of industries (including anime even) saying it’s because the market for these things are low but then there are always huge examples to where that’s just now true. Makes me wonder why people in these industries are so reluctant to just not make content for girls..
I think recently it's starting to dawn on them, with indie devs often more likely to make games that end up becoming popular/associated with women and making bank
That's because anything populated mainly by women suddenly becomes unisex. Which is actually fine and almost universally true. As advertising managers found out, even men prefer ads aimed at women. (I'm a marketing major, marketing in practice student and ex entrepreneur). In the 90s data found that "soccer moms" were the US's primary economic force and when they catered to those women, sales went up. Of course, it's different now. No one has money, so it doesn't matter)
But, yeah. If women like it, it's for everyone. And that's not just conjecture. It's data driven
Playing red dead 2 now as an adult is just like playing with Barbies when I was a kid. Horses. Dress up. Roleplaying. A similar amount of violence.
I, too, remember when Barbie ended racism
Lost it at similar amount of violence 😂
God, I'm a guy myself but my experiences with toys share similar themes
The problem with RDR2 roleplaying options is that they are useless because the game is too easy, in RPGs like Kingdom Comes not eating properly, sleeping or even dressing accordingly will influence the game, in RDR2 it's completely optional, just abuse cigarett*s and other items easily found everywhere and you can beat the game easily, your lack of roleplaying doesn't influence the game at all.
Good idea with bad executions, seems like they were ambitious then restrained themselves to please a more casual audience, but if that was their concerns they should just have proposed different difficulty modes
I meet loads of women online through RDR2
@@heroe1486 "I wish they still made roleplaying games like they used to. These days it's all 'big choices' and 'visceral combat.' I miss those old games where you had to remember to drink water, and it took five hours real time to fly somewhere." Games shopkeeper in Mass Effect 2
0:20 My first thought was “If dudes didn’t also like dress up, nobody would pay money for skins.” I’m going to watch the rest of the video now. What a great opening.
about 1/3rd of my 4300 hrs in destiny has been spent getting fashion pieces, countless hours in cod games spent getting skins for guns. Anyone arguing against it is lying out of their asses
@@BcDyxaLKgoNdgU Would you still buy/collect those skins if the gameplay was uninteresting?
@@chellinacell7450no i wouldnt
and i didnt...... i do customize too look normal usually. though at some point now make it looks as ridicilous as possible so i can laugh and see if the game even alow that the option
What a garbage take. There is a difference between liking a game primarily focused on dressing your character in realistic clothes, and game like Destiny 2 which features soo much in it's game, one of which is equipping gear that affects your performance in that game.
its funny stereotypes were that little girls arent aggressive but i vividly remember wanting to beat the shit out of everybody in line at the new york city toys r us for the my little pony seat on the ferris wheel
Not to mention, the sims community is well-known to have a lot of people who just love to torment their sims, another game that's more popular with a female audience.
And I'm a guy who hates guns, cars and football... And wants games involving nurture, creation and love :p
(still enjoy all sorts though, including driving games and rail shooters)
Haha yeah, and I was a savage little creature when I was younger
I thought that was the stereotype, honestly
when I was a little lady, I used to pop out the head of my Barbies and make go through terrible accidents or just awful scenarios
@@kailomonkey Stardew Valley team hhhhh
I'm the Co-creator of Calico, Kells! Thank you so much for mentioning (with clips) Calico!! My goal with Calico was to make an extremely feminine game that any gender could play, but it absolutely is a part of the history of girl games. I'm glad that the movement of Cozy games is growing so much now a-days, but it's still very rare that you see a pink and sparkly game. I hope we see more in the future!
omg calico was such a good game I always recommend it to friends when they want something small. it really felt like someone with very similar tastes to my own learned to make games so they could make the ultimate self-indulgent game full of the best features from all their other favourite games. every feature I came across I was just like "yesss, I absolutely would include that if I was making something just to make myself happy"
I LOVE THE GAME SO MUCH! It's so comfy, cozy, and the style is just adorable.
I love Calico! I remember backing the Kickstarter and being super excited because it was the exact kind of game I wished I had growing up as a kid. Thank you for bringing such a lovely game to life!!!
calico is a great game
Calico was such a fun game! I enjoyed every minute of it. And the dreamy color palette and soothing music were just wonderful. Thank you for the great experience!
As someone who’s trying to develop a game for teenage girls. I got told by NUMEROUS publishers & platforms and that there’s no target market there. For one platform I did a business case document citing studies and was still turned down. And honestly I would say it was me, but every single woman I know after Covid happened struggled at getting publishing; some with all star teams & incredible demos. A friend who had a game directed to people who love broadway & musicals, or another friend who had the audience of women who love horror got turned down for the same reasons or target market being to niche / non existent. It’s actually cooked haha
(I do want to give a special shoutout to Xbox though; they were the ones who actually did believe & gave an offerer)!!! So it’s not all bad just like after hearing from 30+ publishers where I quote by an agent “my wife plays dress up games; why is this not a dress up games? You should have more of those mechanics” 💀
That is so gross :/. I wish you all the best with your project!
Like in the video "our study says girls don't have consoles" so let's not give them any good reason to want a console by contuning to make only pc girls games i guess O.o ...
Don't need to make all girl games just add co-op that allows open world coplay with good customization and alternate option that allow for community building and social progression without destruction and war.
As a girl gamer who adores both Broadway and horror that breaks my heart to hear
This is reason number one why i hate it when "they" ask me what gender am i targeting this game towards.
Excuse me are you assuming my games gender?
I think this is why games like Baldurs Gate 3 really won a lot of girls hearts too!
I mean honestly fun things are fun, so a lot of it is going to depend more on if you can sell girls on the game or not, and if you don't actively drive them away from it.
It's a low bar, but a lot of devs are still digging holes specifically to go under it. A lot of the time, all you have to do is give the option to either play as a girl or at the very least a guy who doesn't look like a roided out beefcake, like, say, Link. Or Dante.
@@psiah9889 Or like an actual Astarion.
If the game was bad, Astarion would've saved it from drowning. The game is good, and Astarion is its wings.
Moral of the story: need more female players, make more Astarions.
@@Manas-co8wl But Astarion is a dude
@@cryorayeah, as a guy it's a bit confusing but I see the point. I love Karlach's character and I'd play the game even if she was the only main character. Maybe it's the same with Astarion and girls. Maybe he's attractive to some, fan service for men works too after all. Maybe it's a mix of both
@@goolgepl2112 Astarion sounds like a Thalmor from Skyrim.
Nintendo could conquer the entire gaming industry by making a highly polished "Nintendogs + Horses" game for the Switch.
NOOOOO i want NINTENDRAGONS
Fuck it, Nintencreatures it is
True
Dude, I'd buy that in a heartbeat. I horse care sim mixed with a dog care sim?! Amazing!
@@davebob4973 I also vote for nintendragons!!!!!
Your compassion for women’s interests really brings me a ton of joy. It reminds me of my dad. My dad didn’t just give me Barbie movies, dolls, etc, he found enjoyment in them. He genuinely likes the Barbie movies, telling me over the years that they’d make fun stage plays. He likes fantasy and whimsy. He likes Phantom of the Opera, romantic songs, he even recently watched the Vampire Diaries haha… He set a standard of appreciation of feminine things that would be really hard for me to find in men. I did everything I could to adapt to men as I got older. The humor, male dominated games, being more guy-like in order to get along well with them. But you seldom find men who are willing to do the same for women’s interests. You find often than not, men making fun of feminine EVERYTHING, especially in other men, shaming each other for taking an interest in feminine things unabashedly.
Your dad sounds like an awesome person and father
That's how it is, unfortunately. Your father must have embraced his feminine side. People have a more dominant nature but everyone has both feminine and masculine sides. So you become a more well rounded person by developing both.
i love girl games especially on roblox :D and im a boy
As an adult now approaching my 30’s I only started embracing more feminine stuff in the past 3 years 🤯 When I look back on all the things that I really connected with growing up, they were all really, really girly. But I had 3 brothers and what I now understand was veiled misogyny in my family growing up… So with time I learned to hide it.
It helped when I left my ex behind who didn’t like girly stuff (idk it was a weird dynamic but he for sure didn’t like me as I was and was constantly trying to change me), and started to be single for a time and discovered that my authentic style is super femme (I like to call it power femme haha bc I live for ginormous shoulder pads but then smaller frilly details in my signature looks)…. And the amount of confidence I have embracing my real self is immeasurable!!! I always get compliments when I put in the effort with my outfits 🤗
I just hope you don’t feel forced into being something you’re not. I don’t feel like I need to change most of the time but ofc there are probably instances…
Like the one time I was told I couldn’t wear a skirt that hit my ankles when delivering pizzas (still feel like that is sexist)
Why did you try to fit in with men when you clearly couldnt. Just stick to girl and leaveen alone.
When I was a kid, I found a really old book of jokes at the library. The humor was of the old-fashioned yet timeless kind.
The one joke I remember is: "Why do we dress baby boys in blue and baby girls in pink? Because they can't dress themselves!"
This was clearly a simple anti-joke derived from the redundant punchline, but I often think about how this joke has a hell of a lot more truth in it than what whoever came up with it probably was thinking of.
oh absolutely. the amount of times ive told my family 'just get my nephews whatever clothes we can afford that will fit, theyre too young to care' and my dad replies with how you cant just do that, you cant just put the boys in girls clothes even though most of the clothes at garage sales is baby girls clothes. he never has a reason, just "you cant do that".
So true. I like games men usually like. I wanna be a self sufficient like learning to be a mechanic for myself, I find pants more comfortable than dresses (I do wear some dresses, but not often). Why do I have to change my gender because I like things boys normally like? And also, why can't boys play girl games and barbie dolls? Who said cooking, cleaning, and sewing is for women? Heck why cant men cook? Cooking is a survival skill! I'm going on a rant. I just hate it when people have to change who they are just because they like something thats the opposite of them
There's the issue of kids not dressed for gender being bullied in playground... kids a brutal. So a normal parent will make sure to not dress up their child in clothes that might ruin their childhood. Mostly about boys, as girls dressed boyish are more acceptable.
Riding horses across Hyrule in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom brought so much joy. Along with the ways you can customize their manes, bridles and equipment, BoW and ToTK are definitely top tier horse girl games.
I've been playing Breath of the Wild on the Cemu emulator with the Linkle mod... so actually playing a girl instead of Link. Still wouldn't call it a "girl game" though. I mean even if I'm playing a girl and riding a horse, it is still the biggest, meanest horse in the game and it is being used to trample bokoblins into the dirt.
Playing Twilight Princess and running around as a dog, a pretty boy, or a pretty boy on a horse is also very nice!
@@SotiCoto I did a playthrough with a certain playable Zelda mod. It was a lot of fun and really well done!
would you consider Elden Ring to be a horse game in the same way?
You are mixing things up. Riding horses was never a girls-only activity/game. It's part of human heritage, and zelda just added that as a way of fast transportation without breaking the immersion for players, not with the intention of copying old horse Riding girls game. There is nothing girly about the horses like the old girls games.
The ds was the era where i saw and tried the most girls games because of my sister. Its kinda funny how i never noticed that correlation between the “dressup” games and buying skins to look a certain way. Or a character creator being like a doll, or the caring for an animal games and taming a horse in breath of the wild or red dead. Girls games have had a very important impact because some of these crucial elements of todays biggest games have root’s probably to these early girl oriented games. Or at least it provided ideas as to minigame type content
True. Heck, I pride myself on being able to create really attractive female characters in games with character creators...and I can certainly see the correlation between that and dress-up games.
The DS had a lot of girly games. Was a lot of fun.
While not disregarding the impact of girl oriented games, I want to respectfully share a nugget of my research on the topic of character creation, which is pretty interesting actually.
Character creation did not begin with girl oriented games, it actually began way back with the early days of D&D, runescape and other tabletop RPGs where you choose a character's race, gender, background and other details. This aspect of tabletop RPGs was one of the things that early computerized RPGs (videogames as we call them now) like 1988's Pool of Radiance tried to emulate to great success, with one caveat, this isn't really a character creation screen, at least that's not how we define it today, and while the idea was there we would not see a *visual* character creation screen until much later, perhaps in the era of the aforementioned girl oriented games that dominated the early 2000s.
Point being, girl oriented games were not the first to do the idea, but they *may have* been the first to do character creation as we know it today.
@@wo0o0o97 in old school dnd, you do that type of character creation... drawing art of your character.
I just realized I see a lot of girls and women doing it for both girls and guys but I never see a guy stick up for girls or girl related hobbies/games ect. It sadly makes me happy to hear a guy say it lol.
But whenever I hear “there’s just not a market for it!” Whenever it relates to women for video games or even anime theres always huge examples proving that wrong with examples for when someone actually tried to make a it for women/girls. It can be a huge market but only if you actually freaking make something for that audience!!!
These comments are the first time I hear that people are saying there isn't a market for anime for women. Like Shoujo, Josei, Yaoi and shoujo aI, Yuri hime have been there right alongside shounen, seinen, Yuri all this time. Is this a specific bunch of current idiots propaganda?
Genshin Impact has a 45% female playerbase. And let me tell you, Hoyo knows what they're doing. Final Fantasy has a huge female playerbase too.
As a woman, I think we have a lots of choices. In most RPG's, and MMoRPG's you can make your own adventure, can play the game the way you want. You can customize your character's every detail. For ex, BDO's character creation is insane. ESO's, and GW2's endgame is literally fashion. XD
There are an insane amount of games which appeals to woman.
Visual novels, and otome (story based video game) are very popular among women, millions of female players play those games.
I think part of the reason why people rarely speak up for it is because, when a "girl game" is good, it will be played by both genders, thereby erasing any meaning behind the term. So the only thing that's left is that a game can be identified as a girl game when its part of a franchise that's associated exclusively with girls (e.g. Barbie).
As a man, I have played almost all of the games the video mentioned in its list, except for things like Barbie games. But I've never heard a single person in my life refer to Stardew Valley as "girl game". I've also never met a guy who tried it and didn't like it.
I guess what I'm trying to say is this: The term "girl game" would mainly be used by people who are entrenched in toxic gender stereotypes, so any discussion where it comes up would end up with negative remarks about them. Whereas anyone who would talk positively about these games doesn't view them as gendered in the first place.
@@Louigi36 Also, I'v never seen any game promoted as a boy/male game. Growing up we played Mario, Tomb Raider, Assassins creed together with boys. I've never felt that we were excluded (as a girl).
@@Louigi36 I actually see this more in reverse that when video game that was meant to be more for the boy market gets popular it loses its association for being just for men (shonen anime as a whole is a good example) while I’ve seen quite a lot of people say games that are more associated with girls are not “real or good” games such as animal crossing, sims (which I guess people associate more with girls) and yes even stardewvalley but I agree that only people who are very deep into toxic gender ideals are the ones that think that
the sims is often regarded as a torture simulator I mean the sims community always goes feral when a new way to kill your sim is added and a weirdly large amount of players want a funeral event added as an option
It's because the game does sort of cater to women, and if you've ever seen girls playing with dolls, you understand that we enjoy a good dramatic death
@@chaosbean6320 I didn’t say it wasn’t catered more towards women but just calling it a doll house is a bit of a misrepresentation
@@chaosbean6320 oh definitely! Made my barbies fight to the death all the time when I was like seven, good times
Also killing everyone in the sims 3 was my personal goal when I was little, I would boot up a new save and lock everyone I met in a pool with walls around it until I got bored lmao
@@channlerharu5569 Calling Red Dead Redemption 2 a "horse game" is also a misrepresentation. It was basically feeding a car with legs while gun customization.... I spent too long fiddling with extra parts and engravings. Only misgiving I had was you couldn't store things in a house like Skyrim. And by storing in a house, I mean this frame destroying mess.
ua-cam.com/video/AGCZrNGiXQk/v-deo.html
Daughter likes Sims Medieval the most, as it's not like the normal Sims games.
"There is both value and meaningfulness intrinsic to every part of the female experience" I can't express how it felt to hear that actually. I wasn't focused, I was using the video as a podcast while drawing and I teared up.
same
It’s actually insane how accurate that list of “girl games” you made is. Pokémon, stardew, minecraft, animal crossing & splatoon are genuinely the only games on my switch other than a single monster hunter game that my brother downloaded.
Monster Hunter is a dressup game where the raw materials fight back before you can turn them into a hat
@@miflofbierculles5117 Fashion hunting is the true endgame of Monster Hunter
I am literally begging Nintendo to remaster/revamp & release the Hamtaro games for Switch :(
@@mae2599there's probably some licensing issues with that as, and correct me if I'm wrong, Hamtaro isn't owned by Nintendo or the developer if their games.
monster hunter world was so goated never tried rise what one is on your switch? I'm a PC user though and don't have a switch
I think the rise of the cozy game is really just a rebranding of the girl game market and I love it.
Cozy Grove is definitely my favourite right now :)
I don't think it's a rebranding necessarily. I think it's more that "Girls have to be into pink Barbie dolls and stories about princesses" is insultingly one-note and cartoonish.
I play Project Zomboid and a fair few games involving engineering like Oxygen Not Included and Satisfactory. And there are women playing those games. I'm learning from UA-cam streamers there are more women in my generation who had those "boy" nerd interests. And I find a lot of women engage with the characters from League of Legends. And women go in for the MCU movies too.
As an industry, games are now worth more than movies, so I think the idea of a "gamer" is starting to fall by the wayside and start to become much more casually accepted hobby than some kind of committed lifestyle choice or niche interest. Sort of the way novels and movies both started out as low-class trashy art. And the younger generation doesn't treat Pokemon as some kind of strange or weird hobby, which is not how it was perceived when I was in high school. You were weird if you liked it. When Pokemon Go was a thing, a younger man told me that it was a great way to meet girls. (I may have used an invective at him.)
I think it's more that the idea that women have to stay in a particular lane is breaking-down and that men liked to view them fitting neatly into that lane. But that's like saying women shouldn't like Legos. The appeal is universal and any social rule saying such is highly arbitrary.
@@ved2360 idk anyone who ever said women shouldn't like Legos. Idk I grew up in a very different and open minded family, I played with gi Joes and Barbies as a kid. Well at least one family was like that. Complicated childhood.
But yea I don't think it's anymore of a "all women must be into girly things, so all girls must only play girl games" and more of a "well obviously some people, even some men, are into what some would call 'girly' things, so maybe we should make a good game with a lot of girly things in it for those people?" Type thing.
I mean a lot has changed in the world compared to when I was growing up. Expectations are starting to change, along with a great many other things.
I also liked pokemon back when it was considered weird.
But yea I agree, appeal is very nuanced, and all of the industries are a little slow to pick up on that.
Cozy games, while they do intersect at times, aren't really the same thing as the growing girl games movement :) we're seeing increasing demand for unapologetically girly/feminine/pink games. There's starting to be so many otome game releases that gamers are having a hard time keeping up, and localizing companies are having a hard time putting them all out. Several companies have just fully pivoted to this niche such as aksys games. In comparison, the cozy game movement seems mostly around indies and their publishers, focused at a more neutral audience (that still captures girls/women).
@@ved2360 You seem to still be caught up in the old anti-femininity mindset. Hello Kitty is getting it's largest game ever this year and has large fan demand. Fashion Dreamer is a literal spiritual successor to style savvy and is shaping up to be a heavy hitter in the industry. The Love Nikki series is getting a AAA-style open world game on PS4/PS5. You couldn't be more wrong. There *is* a growing demand for unapologetically "pink" and "girly" games. Pretty Princess had a delayed launch in the US, and immediately got a sequel with the US launch happening ahead of Japan (it's country of origin).
It's kind of refreshing to see a man talk about and take girls games seriously and advocating for quality instead of bashing them. Games for girls don't have to suck or push stereotypes!
prey tell , how can a game both "be for girls" and not "have to push stereotypes?"....
@@iamLI3 Because girliness and femininity are not stereotypes, they are part of a lived experience, that can't be simplified down to an aesthetic or cut and dry formula.
A game can be for girls and not push stereotypes by genuinely listening to and engaging with the interests of it's female audience and what they want to see in their games, and developing quality gameplay around that, or with that in mind.
This is different from developing a game for girls based on stereotypes, where the game is designed based on things attributed to girls, usually by a male dominated game design team, even if those things do not accurately represent what girls want, who girls are, or what they would genuinely enjoy in a game.
@@reumarks you're going to have to explain what your definition of "stereotype" is then , because this is what it should be in this conversation's context
2 : something conforming to a fixed or general pattern
neither i nor the dev consider stardew valley a game specifically for girls , we consider it a game for anyone
@@iamLI3 You left out the rest of that definition
especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment
@@xxLowkeyTrashxx i left nothing out that was the full definition line
and what is your point?....
One "girl game" that I really enjoyed was Super Princess Peach. It's marketed to girls and has "girly" aesthetics, but at it's core it's simply a very solid jump-n-run.
Oh my god this comment unlocked memories of my childhood. This was the one of the few games my non-gaming cousins (girls) played. I loved it and the concept so much.
Honestly, this isn't even just a gaming only problem. Literally before I even found this video, just earlier in the same exact day I was talking with a friend about some TV stuff that got announced and they randomly brought up "why do no girl-targeted action cartoons exist anymore?"
I had never even noticed up to that point but yeah, back when I was a kid in the early 2000s, there was loads of girly action shows like Cardcaptors, Sailor Moon, Totally Spies, Powerpuff Girls, etc. but nowadays it's basically non-existent. Yes there's still girly shows but most of them are more traditional girly stereotypes and even the few that exist are honestly largely ignored or unknown globally. For example, in Japan, there's a massive franchise with 900+ episodes and 20 seasons called Pretty Cure, it's non-existent basically internationally even though anime is so much bigger globally now. Literally only 3 of those seasons (2004, 2012, and 2013) ever got English dubs because nobody thought girls would want to watch those kinds of shows over here when they likely do.
More companies across all industries need to realize that there's room for more girly targeted projects without going full "pink, makeup, horses, etc." stereotypes and you also don't have to ignore girly stuff entirely and just go for a gender neutral experience either.
It's also really rare even now for 'girly' media' to get respect or proper releases in English. Pretty cure got released here as glitter force, which is fine. But it got many episodes cut or censored. It also doesn't want kids to know the mc's live in japan or can be severely hurt by enemies. As a fan who grew up un the DIC release of sailor moon( which finally got released uncensored in 2014), kim possible, totally spies, the mary kate and ashley back in action, and cardcaptors I was hoping things had finally changed.
The only recent girl-targeted cartoon show I can think of is Miraculous Ladybug, which was made in France. It has an English dub and plays on Disney's tv channel. I enjoyed watching it for a while but eventually the butchering of the writing of characters got to me and I had to put it down. They had one of the "villainous" bully characters start to change and become semi-good, but I guess the show writers realized she was becoming a fan favorite and didn't like that, so they made her do a sudden heel-turn and act like an even worse jerk. Ugh.
Both She-Ra and The Proud Family got revived fairly recently, Star Vs. The Forces of Evil was popular and lasted four seasons, Centaurworld was arguably pretty girly, and I highly recommend Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur which just started airing now. I think there could/should be more, but those are the few I could think of off the top of my head as a grown man.
It's because US "girls' media" is currently dominated by ideologues, so when it's a story for girls with action, it cannot just be a straightforward adventure story that just happens to star a girl and be about girls and their daily lives/friendships/hardships/whatever; it *has* to be about an abrasive girlboss fighting the patriarchy, with themes about feminism, LGBTQ, and all the other assorted baggage.
Those are things that kids don't really care about, so you end up with most of these shows having rabid young-adult fanbases instead, just because those align with their politics, and so the creators inevitably start catering to the tastes of that demographic, eventually leading to the shows not being for young girls anymore.
Funnily enough, Japanese shows seems to be a lot better in this regards, but then those have to contend with anime's (not entirely groundless, but absurdly overblown) reputation of being for social rejects and perverts. All in all, it's just a sad situation.
@@LeoMidori I would also add The Owl House and Amphibia to the list. Though I generally agree with the first posters opinion, it isn't quite true that there are no animated shows for girls being produced right now. But there have certainly been phases where we did hardly get anything with girls as a primary target audience.
Also even though the fandom became what it is, My Little Pony gen 4 was definitely produced for girls. I'm not sure how gen 5 is doing but I would assume it's mostly the same.
I remember feeling the need to play "boy" games as a younger girl, because girly games or even what is considered cozy games now were lesser. I still sometimes catch myself thinking "oh, she only plays animal crossing, she's not a gamer" because it's so engrained in me. Amazing video, it really fueled my thought process of what I internalized even as a girl growing up in the 90s and 2000s, looking for games that suited me.
Why would you want to be a "gamer" or be approved by those guys? They're scum. Any guy who calls himself a "gamer" is a damned joke.
Yes! The internalised misogyny runs deep 🙈 reminds me of the “I’m not like other girls” and “I mostly have guy friends” vibes I’ve thankfully moved on from since my teen years 😅
@Weyland Punani What male hobby is considered lesser? I ask genuinely because the way you phrased it came off a bit defensive, and a sort of what about men thing. Again, don't take offense
@@titandarknight2698What did they say?
i wish i could super-like this comment. me too :(
the whole "the everyday experiences of girls are inherently compelling and deserve fun and good and well-designed representation, which results to self-confidence and affirmation" bit actually just made me cry haha, the inner child is healing ... what a great video all around!!!
Same!! Thanks for writing this comment. It's like a lifetime of feeling guilty and embarassed by girly things was just lifted. I've never heard anyone say that before and didn't know I needed it until now.
I felt a little giddy toward the end of this video. This guy really gets it, it's so great!
im crying too
Yo it is lovely 💖
Same
I showed my girlfriend the whole girl experiences section and she says she felt exposed, especially with the Miles Edgeworth part hahahaha
I'm a woman who has been playing videogames since I was 4 and always felt like something of an outisder in the wider mainstream gaming community, when I found out about otome games and the community of fans surrounding them it was like I finally found a place I actually belonged in, I'm really happy high quality girly games are being made more often nowadays and not treated as jokes so young girls who are just now getting into gaming won't feel excluded like I was
The video was great and probably should've included some research on otome content
@@ollietaro yeah, I feel like they definitely deserved more than just a passing comment, otome games are already an obscure niche inside a niche as it is
MORE OTOME PLZ
otome is a gem genre.
I had a similar experience, I feel this in my soul!!!
I’m a woman working in the games industry and you’ve really opened my eyes to what we can do to make better games for women. My mission up to now has been to bring colourful graphics and quality premium games (not free to play) to the market to prove that there is a place for these games. Perhaps now I’ve received the missing perspective of the puzzle I’ve been trying to solve. Thank you 💜
I would also say you guessed a good majority of girl games that I love! Kingdom Hearts is dah best and most Japanese developers just get it right 💪🏻
Japanese developers really have gotten it right.
Rune Factory! Us girls really like the farming simulators but they also added a battle system so there's action!
One upcoming "girl" game I'm very curious about is called Infinity Nikki. It's based off of a mobile dress-up series for girls, but Infinity in particular looks like a high budget, high effort open world adventure game in the vein of Breath of the Wild, and reportedly even has a long-time game designer from the Zelda series onboard. It doesn't have a release date yet but it's a game I'm keeping an eye on just since it looks so unique, and if it actually turns out good I hope it gets some attention for it.
I remember that trailer! It really caught my attention and I hope it turns out amazing to encourage more games in the genre.
O.O
I've played Shining Nikki, that game is excellent
From Love Nikki? That game is really good, the story is crazy developed and each event only added on to it.
As a Love Nikki player I'm very excited about Infinity Nikki! Looks very beautiful and also very fun!
When I was a little girl, I played DOOM, some military strategies and chess. Among the “girl games” I liked playing Nintendo’s "Little mermaid", but I finished it very quickly and got bored. I also played SIMS, I was interested in planning gothic mansions and creating cemeteries
Found Wednesday :)
yeah, the video is way to stereotypical. most people just do things they like (playing doom or strategy) without actually thinking too much about it. people are way more varied then this video would suggest! only if you bring this identy politics into the topic people begin putting themself into smaller and smaller boxes they try to fit! i played doom too but i also like to play dress up (theater) and nobody cares!
@@boohoo5419so.. you didn't watch the video? because that was literally the point.
Little Mermaid on NES was played by almost everyone, it had cross-appeal, probably because of Disney, you'd have guys play it as much as Lion King, Batman, Aladdin and Ninja Turtles.
@@boohoo5419 found the person who commented without watching the video
This video was amazing! that part where you listed all the classic "girly" childhood games was a trip down memory lane 😂 I remember being a part of a conversation online recently about harassment in online gaming, and how women don't feel safe entering those spaces. Someone brought up how there are large, female-dominated gaming spaces online that get left out of the cultural idea of "gamer" completely (the sims, animal crossing, stardew, etc). I find it really interesting how we categorize a "good" or "challenging" gaming experience. Most people view these as "casual" games, but the people who play them are anything but casual. Are animal crossing and the sims "hard" in the way an online FPS game is "hard"? No, but I think they're hard in that they require skills and knowledge that isn't valued by the demographic that values big AAA action games. I can't tell you how many guys I've met who've offered to play animal crossing with me and their island is a mess! 😂 theres nothing wrong with that of course and I'm certainly not trying to make a silly gender essentialist claim that men are predisposed to be bad at decorating. I just see a lot of women and girls in these spaces take aspects like design and aesthetics extremely seriously, and to see those skills lambasted as "lesser" or "casual" really upsets me. Your point at the beginning about how everyone loves to dress up in their own way rings really true, and I wish the skill required to be really good at games that hinge on these aesthetic pursuits was taken just as seriously as how fast you can hit a target or beat a boss. Not all games have to be competitive to be compelling!
I used to play the Love Niki Dress Up Queen mobile game with my youngest sister, on the phone. There's a "Competition" mode where players create outfits based on a theme, and the rest of the players judge which outfit is the best. You get more points if your outfit is judged higher by the general populace.
Anyone who says that aesthetic pursuits are any less challenging or competitive than hitting a target or beating a boss needs to give that a try: my sister smoking me during every competition was proof enough for me that dress-up is not only skill-based, but also extremely complex and compelling!
I'm a man and my animal crossing island is a mess can confirm (But honestly, I just find environment decorating to be boring. I take character design and outfits very seriously though 😩)
Granted, when you see us making rooms in Animal Crossing that are nothing but toilets, you definitely have an argument there that we suck at decorating LOL.
On a somewhat more serious note, i like to assume that we have evolved from the idea that women don't belong, but i definitely know there was an argument to be had. Blizzard will always be a good reminder that female gamers had a rough time, especially with the "Victoria Secret Catalogue" mentality. But games like stardew, sims, and especially animal crossing given the pandemic, have truly marked that those "lesser" games are still worth acknowledgment, and have their place in gaming.
And it might be the fact that my mother was always a gamer, if anything she raised to play a lot of different games from different types, but i've always wondered why was the idea that "women like to play videogames too" a topic of discourse. It just never made sense to me because...you don't need testosterone to enjoy a video game, let alone want to pick up a controller and do things. It's just different strokes for different folks.
I spent months in Animal Crossing NH trying to grow blue roses. I've also done Savage raiding in FFXIV. I still couldn't tell you which was more difficult!
I, for one prefer educational games: don't you think women like you would benefit more from a game like 'Turing Complete' rather than a stereotypical game with no agency?
The list you made killed me, like 80% of that applied to me. Even the whole “your favourite character is Edgeworth” when regarding Ace Attorney. I was laughing so hard at how specific your description was yet how much it applied to me (and obviously many others).
Same, I felt so called out with the Edgeworth one
It's cheating a little bit because for boys Miles Edgeworth was also the most popular character... he was just loved by everyone.
Same, I was laughing during that whole segment at how accurate he was XD
I understand farming sims and RPGs, but why of all things is TF2 popular with women?
@@graywolf182 TF2 is a good game.
Confession time: That one Nintendo direct that was like 90% farming sims made me eye-roll and groan almost all the way through. Watching this video made me reflect a bit on why I did that and made me realise that as someone who is very passionate about games, I need to work on becoming more appreciative of the work being put into these types of games despite the fact that they aren’t made for me. Excellent video!
Yes! So good to see people self-reflecting. We all have biases and tendencies that don't lend toward accepting the desires and ideas of others. It's important to remind ourselves that it's not always about us and what we want, and that the goal is for everyone to find enjoyment playing video games. In that same facet of thought... often, it's our mindset that holds us back from experiencing potentially new and wonderful things. Perhaps we just THINK that game/movie/book/food/etc isn't for us, but if we never give it a real chance, how can we really know?
I played all the “proper” games growing up (World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls, Minecraft, CSGO, etc.), and because of that groaning reaction I’d receive from my friends mentioning farming related games, I kept it secret that I played games like Animal Crossing, Harvest Moon, Sims etc.
I recently found out one of my guy friends played Stardew, it was nice to finally talk about a “girly” game with him.
I think that was more to do with so many of the same style games lol
I have the same reaction to COD games. But I know a lot of people really enjoy them so whatever.
no , if you had that reaction because the quality of those games was bad then it was a valid reaction , farming simulator is a decent genera of game 99% of which is made terribly , so of course a direct that was 90% farming sim was going to generate unpleasant reactions
don't be fooled into thinking you need to change yourself to suit other people's tastes , especially if it tastes like shit , those games were still being marketed towards you , if they appeared to be quality art then you would have automatically been appreciative of them despite you thinking they are not your kind of game
"Your favourite character was Miles Edgeworth" delivered like it's a hard read but it's more like newspaper astrology because everyone's favourite character is Miles Edgeworth
My favorite character is Dick Gumshoe because I'm a gay male
Unless you ask a sapphic in which case the answer will most likely be Franziska
Naur not the gheys being called out too 💀💀💀
As a woman gamer who was a kid in the 2000s and grew up on all the girly-game shovelware you can think of, I was completely oblivious to the fact that they were mostly “low quality” games (sans nancy drew and even some barbie games that I still consider to be good quality bcuz they focused on storytelling, world-building, character development, problem solving and receiving rewards). For me, the “emptiness” of certain games created the necessity for me to use my imagination (whether that was the intent of the developers or not lol), and the act of imagining excited me more than anything as a kid. There was nothing I loved more tbh. But I feel where the big disconnect between young girls and older women’s interests lie is that when people age (men or women), we use our imagination less, we are less excited by the idea of imagining things. We want the real thing & we are more aware of the quality of things, whereas kids compromise with what is given & learn to enjoy what’s given to them. As I got older, I shifted towards the more “masculine games” despite not having a competitive bone or thirst for “conquering” in my body. The reality is I would love to stick to playing “girly games”, that aesthetically oriented/pretty/cute, without much pressure, violence & competitiveness (not that I necessarily dislike those things), but there aren’t very many of them that exist with the depth and meaning I crave. I want world-building, good character development and story-telling, wrapped up in a cutely designed world, that has a lot of casual gameplay and isn’t pressuring in a negative way, but still challenging, fun & intellectually + EMOTIONALLY engaging, whatever those emotions are, doesn’t necessarily always have to be happy. I love harvest moon bcuz even tho it’s wrapped in a cute & happy package, it still has depth. Some of the games really cover themes of life really well like grief & loss, importance of community, friendship, etc. I love games that have humanity injected in to them, & make me feel more connected to my own humanity. I think that’s what it comes down to. I want my games to be either a piece of peace, or a revelation to me, or both. Maybe bcuz my mind is already stressed as it is in the real world lol. Many women want an escape, and not more chaos.
I just realized I wrote a lot…
Longer comments like this one are always both wonderful and welcome. It is an opportunity for me to read your story and learn from you, too!
This is why i fell in absolute LOVE with mario odyssey. If you have any suggestions I would love to hear them!
It may not be a "girly" game but if you haven't played it I recommend rdr2. As a girl I really loved how in depth some elements like fashion, interaction with characters, horse bonding were. And I really loved exploring. I loved how you can choose haircuts for Arthur:)
ah the emotional investement that you describe is why i keep returning to Deltarune (despite there being only two chapters yet and i know them by heart by now) i read your comment and all made me think of deltarune fondly, i really relate to your statements :')
Hearing a man validate the value of women and femininity and girliness literally made me emotional.
yeah, seeing the thumbnail and title made me think i was going to watch a video of a woman speaking about this topic, but it just hits kinda different when its a guy talking about it
I think that says quite a bit about our cultural moment in time. Some think only masculinity has been attacked, but I think femininity was attacked first actually. Both have been attacked to the point where they have in a way become undefinable and/or irrelevant. A man talking about the innate goodness of femininity or a woman talking about the innate goodness of masculinity has become foreign in our current society.
@@VunderGuy I agree.
If you get rid of designated roles for the sexes, you must also erase the concepts of femininity and masculinity, I mean those categories don't mean much of anything if it doesn't make one better suited for one thing over and against another thing. Defeats a crucial purpose of the innate distinctions. What's motherly instincts without a female with feminine characteristics? It would make no sense.
Personally, I think the people who hate women most are feminists, they want women to be men, they don't want women to be women. If you make the sexes equal in roles, equal in capabilities, then that means they're exactly the same, which defies reality, we know better.
@@VunderGuy During WWII, the Red Army had almost 1 million women, of which around 500,000 were called up to serve as soldiers. These women changed the course of history and were omitted.
In American Civil War, more than 400 women disguised themselves as men and fought in the armies to free their nation and terminate slavery.
Only to mention two important documented moments.
Maybe you're just misogynistic and think women don't fight in wars.
@@_SpreadingLove_ What you call and think of as misogynistic is actually a love and care for women. We understand, and frankly anyone who has a truthful realistic understanding of human history and anthropology understands that women are not very well psychologically or physically suited for things like combat. Actually, everything that makes someone better suited for war and combat goes against the grain of what womens natural feminine qualities tend to be, women were not designed to do the difficult things that would make for good killers/fighters, to be assertive, authoritorial and aggressive. I'd say from quite a bit of anecdotal evidence I've witnessed and learned about; when women take on more masculine characteristics, they tend to not be able to handle them well, they can be more irrational and go more easily overboard when trying to take on a more masculine persona, or just fail badly at it. You think of all the qualities that make for something like a good wife and/or mother and those qualities are polar opposites of the qualities that something like war requires.
The truth is we care about women so much that we think it's not only better, but it's morally obligatory/imperitive that WE (MEN) TAKE THAT DIFFICULT PLACE! Women should not be allowed to be subjected to that.
Ugh, I hate feminism, some of the worst bunch of brain washing, woman destroying garbage that modern society has ever spat out! Feminism, when looked at from a historical, logical, well informed, and critically thought through perspective, should lead one to conclude that it is an ideology that hates and wishes to destroy women.
Women in war and the like should be very rare exceptions, and only necessary under the most dire of circumstances.
Here are some other girls games that werent mentioned: Club Penguin, Moshi Monsters, Slime Rancher, Alice Madness Returns, Hello Kitty Roller Rescue, Singstar, Just Dance, Animal Jam, Movie Star Planet, Stardoll, Cooking Mama, Love Test simulators.
Just off the top of my head that I remember from childhood and this probably isnt a universal experience but these were all popular when I was a kid.
MOSHI MONSTERS
Club Penguin!! I adore it.
Fantage and secret builders too- and yes I agree more than half of those I played
MOVIE STAR PLANET... you just unlocked a memory for me, thank you haha! I was also a huge fan of Webkinz. I wasn't really a gamer as a kid, because there weren't a lot of games that I actually enjoyed. But Movie Star Planet was definitely one I willingly & enjoyably lost weeks of my life to lmao
First time I see Club Penguin mentioned as a girl game. :o
In my elementary school boys played it as well.
I'm in my 20s, I have a job, I pay bills and taxes, and I am attending college. I found myself looking for a good dress up game several times in the past few years, but most of them were shoddy and poor quality. I never got to play style savvy as a kid, but I really wanted to and still want to. I also loved the barbie flash games from their website in the 2000s. I still enjoy competitive games, but sometimes I just want a fun experience of dressing up that doesn't necessarily involve doling out a bunch of real life money to make my mmo character look more stylish. Sometimes I just want that aspect of a game, more or less on its own. It could be marketed mainly towards children, but if it's good enough quality I'd totally play a good dress up/makeup/fashion game today.
Animal Crossing has that available, one of the easier ones to grab anyway. There are mobiles games too with that, no idea how you'd look it up however.
Highly recommend the Nikki games, like "Love Nikki: Dress Up Queen" and "Shining Nikki"! They are mobile games and have gacha/paid stuff, but in my experience, you don't have to spend on them to have fun and make good outfits.
@@sincerely_vexialiterally my childhood and i still play it sometimes now the outfits are simply wonderful
Games such as Dress Up games are attractive to a very niche audience. As such, these games are less likely to attract significant funding, and as such are more likely to be simpler with less features.
You won't find a dress up game with, for example, the number clothing items that Diablo IV or Halo has.
@@hrthrhsso I guess we’re just going to ignore that Sims4 exists.
I stopped a third of the way in to say "THANK YOU" for acknowledging that progress most often comes in incremental steps, and a lot of early works may look "cringe" or worse by today's standards, but those works are still important, because they form the foundation for future improvements. This is true in so many things, both social and more concrete, but with how fast the world has changed in the last hundred years compared to the overwhelming majority of human history, it seems many are quick to forget, and dismiss anything that isn't/wasn't EXACTLY their end goal.
See also Dumbo.
Im now convinced that Zelda Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are dress up and explore games that appeals to all audiences. The amount of clothes and customization in those games is truly a force to be reckoned with, on top of the story and amount of stuff you can do.
Now that I think about it, gathering all the armor sets is my main motivation to play Tears of the Kingdom
you don't need to look far to see how on point that is.
we all had a big smile when we got the Ice Dress in TotK. lol
+ horse mechanics + the representation of incredibly strong, relatable, and fleshed out female characters!!
omg and don't even get me started on the gerudo and link cross dressing to blend in and just the overall lack of gender-defining characteristics that link has. paired with fantastic mechanics, tight combat, and a beautiful environment ughh
Mario Odyssey is also a dress-up game.
"i played a lot of boy games growing up too..." then you proceed to list so many staples from my childhood LOL so glad to have been exposed to girly games and other games that weren't just what i would have stereotypically liked. we need more girly games and we need more games for girls that aren't necessarily stereotypically feminine just as you said. thanks for what you do, this video was absolutely fantastic. and everyone go play the newer story of seasons games :)
I really appreciate you talking about feminist issues in the gaming community and delivering it in a way that is so effective on an audience that might be resistant to the idea! I was surprised when I clicked on the video to hear a male voice and talk about the experience of women in games as a genuinely unique and valid experience. I'll definitely be sharing this with all my fellow girl gamers. Thank you
the gaming community doesn't have any feminist issues , except for how feminists keep trying to destroy the gaming community.....
i think feminists caused the colapse of girls games in the 90s.
i don't know if you watched the same video as me but sounded like activists feminists wanted to destroy femininity and girliness like they try to do to this day with all of this girl power BS. insted of doing good games for girls barbie dress up could be the first to alot of games but no... came in the activists so caled feminists saying that femininity and girliness is bad.
@@ArlindoBuriti and of course they were not content with merely destroying girl's games , but all gaming and art as a whole.....
@@ArlindoBuriti So true. As a female gamer I have enough of toxic feminists. We can't even have pretty female protagonists (see Aloy, the new Lara Croft, Black Widow in Avengers game etc), because they believe it will make female players insecure.
I'm so angry, man can have their power fantasy, but I as a woman I can't play as a beautiful sexy woman, because now that is apparently bad.
@@pepita2437 very poignant , which is why im sure your concern will not be considered for the discussion of this propaganda video.....
not only this , but i literally just read someone saying this
"Kyrie Jones 4 days ago Girls don't want to play games that sexualize women"
so not only are you not allowed to play as the sexy woman you want to , this person is invalidating your entire existence by stating that you don't want to play as the thing you want to , all while claiming to be advocating for what you - a woman - wants by addressing this problem which is of pure contrivance
and of course we all know the reason for this bizarre situation is because as i stated in my original comment on this video , our culture is being attacked by political social engineering for the purpose of physiological subversion of not just games but all civilization....
I am girl, late millennial , and I was determined that you wouldn't have predicted my gaming history, but alas you were pretty accurate, especially with targeting specifically Windwaker. The nail in the coffin was Phoenix Wright and my favorite character being Edgeworth.... I have never been more called out in my life with that one..... :/
Haven’t even seen he video yet, and from these comments, I gather they already know my taste male characters.
Edgeworth is the only prosecutor that doesn't get violent, who doesn't like him?
@@LittleSparklingStars Don't slander my boy Klavier like this
Missed out the pre-Nancy Drew point and clicks, like Sherlock Holmes and Beneath a Steel Sky, which still comes back to calm puzzle solving, and the trading simulation games like The Patrician and Machiavelli, but otherwise pretty comprehensive history.
Lmao, it’s ok, I’ll join you in the hot seat down in the comments.🤥
And I call myself a gamer🥹
Can confirm WW was among the games in my formative years. WW the first animal crossing, sonic heroes and it only spiraled form there.
Tho not all of my games he predicted
He left out a key demographic of the ninja gamer girls. I’m talking the ones that were super into Naruto and TMNT and bought anything related to it.
So he hasn’t got all of us just yet at least not the tomboy and emo phased gurls🤘🏼
It's always been strange to me how long it took for farming sims like Harvest Moon (Story of Seasons) to start catering to women in that you'd actually get to play as a girl and marry a guy rather than the other way around. I wonder if they were more popular with boys initially?
Yes, they are more popular with boys initially. And tbh, even with the release of the female version, many girls I know who played the series were more inclined to play the original, because they're already familiar with the character.
That said, the video glossed over how Japan's media (not just gaming) industry works in general. There will _always_ be good Japanese games that target the female audience. Many of the games he listed in the opening session aren't even considered as "girl games" (I don't know, he did mention global west, so it's possible that they are considered as such strictly in the global west). The Sims and Hamtaro for example. Uma Musume is DEFINITELY not a "girl game", though it has lots of female players.
Harvest moon was initially made for boys but it always had a decent female player population which was at best ignored and at worst despised.
The Harvest Moon series was very sexist in the first years of the franchise, a couple of them when you played as a girl if you ever get married it ends. No joke, once you do is a Game Over, you had to start again or never get married in your playthrought, which the male version never has this issue in the first place. Clearly an shitty double standard.
@@nidohime6233 unfortunately the previous japanese generation still largely expects women to retire to be a full time housewife and child caretaker once you get married. The younger generation is obviously not fullfilling that, because of far more options for women plus that it isn't affordable anymore for most people even if they wanted it.
@@nidohime6233 lmao
I just want to cry, I can't explain how much this video scratched an itch I've had for decades! Awesome video and I can't wait for it to open more and more discussion about this topic!!!
As a young girl I was annoyed how all the girl games that took my interest by cover art and title, where often so horrible in gameplay en execution. I noticed then how more typically male oriented games where of higher quality with more depth. It was honestly sad that killing something in shooting games was deemed more interesting than planting things to grow and basically giving life to gardens, animals and villages.
You really just said that it's sad to think that an explosion in your hand is more interesting than watching grass grow...
@@SeekerGoldstone that’s a gross generalization.
@@SeekerGoldstone
If you've never gotten hooked on an old flash game about keeping plants or fish idk what to tell you😂
@Amaria Jade The first part is just about preferences, and i've heard many people say the opposite, I think that you're missing the point by bigging something up while bringing something down.
It's not a generalization, that's what they said.
I am a Japanese girl and Japan provided a lot of quality 3DS game for female players.
I recommend you to play 'Girls Mode -Star Stylist' and 'Pripara'..etc. It's cartoon-ish because we're Japanese. But they're amazing.
I adore pripara
Is it cartoonish because youre japanese or are you Japanese because its cartoonish?
@@genocidehero9687 Everyone knows that Japan didn't exist before Walt Disney invented cartoons in 1927
@@genocidehero9687nah, i’d win
Unfortunately, not all great girl games were translated from japan. Like FABSTYLE. Fan translations all but stopped online.
It feels very nice to have a man acknowledge that a lot of other men see games made for women as “lesser”. It is something that I have experienced my entire life: being laughed at by men for my hobbies. Anything that women are interested in is seen as less valuable, superficial or dumb. Think of horse riding or liking certain music. It really shows how ingrained sexism is.
it's the same reason female dominated industries have lower paid jobs - women's work is seen as "lesser" too
I think the reason they may define it as "lesser" is because they place value in competitive games and since girls (on average) aren't rly into them it's bound to happen. I don't know how that is a form of sexism, the real discussion that ought to be had is the fact that the games that girls play shouldn't be viewed as inferior because they have different priorities in their needs from a game, cause men and women are different temperamentally. I don't think that horse riding is frowned upon by society (but I haven't seen extensive discussions on horse riding either other than the regular mention of it among rare hobbies(it's rare in my country) so I may be wrong). As for music I also haven't encountered at least in my social surroundings sexism towards music that girls hear
@@miss_jess No, it is because employees in female dominated industries are easier to come by because men are less picky about what they will do for money. Supply and demand.
@@leyteristhomas6994 This isn't the main reason. I place value on lots of things but I don't consider the alternatives to be lesser. I could be indifferent to them. If I devalue something or scorn it, which men certainly do for most female interests, then there's a different reason. And yes that reason is just misogyny. Plain and simple.
You can tell it's misogyny because we actually have a great deal of examples where the hobby/industry changed from being primarily male to primarily female or vice versa and the surrounding social narrative changed too. In the mid twentieth century programming and coding was female dominated. It was called a pink collar job. It we was seen as mechanical and menial and not something men bothered with. The men came up with the visions and the women did the grunt work of making it happen. Fast forward to today and most people would be blown away to find this out. Those women were paid peanuts. They contributed hugely to all sorts of important break throughs. No credit given. Nowadays programming is seen as highly skilled crucial labour. Someone doing programming work on an important project or discovery will be very well paid and credited in the fields that give individual credit. Nowadays programming is male dominated. This is not a coincidence.
Another example is teaching. Historically teaching as a private tutor of the wealthy was male dominated. Yes you did have governesses but serious teaching for advanced skills was male. It was respected and well paid. Once it became public school and women began to dominate it became seen as a lesser profession. A hobby for women to earn their pin money. Wages have been in free fall for decades.
There are many more examples I can't remember. The key factor is which sex does the work. It doesn't matter what the work or hobby is, what matters is the perceived relationship to the sex that does it the most.
Edit: as for music and book, you have to be joking if you haven't seen people pour scorn on things girls like. Twilight was silly YA books and got regularly torn apart by adult men seemingly for no reason. Musicians that girls like get shit on even if they're not girls e.g. Justin Bieber. Again, it's not about the actual content, it's about women liking it and therefore men feeling the need to ACTIVELY distance themselves from it by publicly disparaging it.
@@IshtarNike the type of programming done today is more analogous to the electrical engineers designing the machines then. Comparing two different jobs with the same name and going "OH LOOK THEYRE DIFFERENT" lol
"Any Fire Emblem games after Awakening"
I've been painfully call out.
Also he was right about Dragon Age and Mass Effect series, Pokemon, Ace Attorney (very very right), Shin Megami Tensei, Persona, Professor Layton. My experience wasn't limited to those games, but surely they had the greatest impact, and I'm still a fan.
Oblivion and Skyrim also had a very big impact on me, especially Oblivion but I don't know if I was exactly the target.
I think the things like Nikki series by Papergames and the "otome"/"joseimuke" game genres are a great example of how both the industry and "gamers" need to treats girls' games more seriously, and what happens when they do. It's so cool that when given the proper attention and investment you can have something like the upcoming Infinity Nikki, which by virtue of being an open-world dress-up game feels like it's opening up so many new frontiers for gaming in general.
I hope the success of animal crossing will be teaching everyone a thing or two… All my favorite games have allowed high levels of customization 💗💗💗
I’ll have to check that out!!!
Honestly, i found that otome games are interesting also because it seems that to develop a successful one, a company needs to truly UNDERSTAND what girls and women like and cater to it specifically. So many of them have so obvious themes like, self-love, female agency, building relationships, acceptance… i find it baffling how many non-otome game companies struggle to draw female players in, or can‘t write compelling romance or female characters for the life of them. in so many games, romance isn‘t even the main focus, but more of an ongoing side plot, but still people treat he entre like it’s nothing but strange straight women staring at pretty anime boys and nothing else.
no one would treat a game for men like „oh they just want to shoot people and look at hot women“, but with female audiences, they do exactly that and then pretend women just don’t like games when their poorly made games don‘t sell…
Infinity Nikki sounds so neat but it looks kind of bleak in my opinion. Considering all the issues (not only performance ones) all the other Nikki games have I can't really see it happening
Honestly, Yume Nikki is really the only good girl game.
Thank you for bringing this topic to light! One game site I remember playing so much on as a kid was the Bella Sara website, which is now shut down. You could care for mythical online horses, and while there was no overarching way to "win," it just felt nice caring for creatures I liked to imagine I owned and loved. I also collected the trading cards that went with the site!
When I was younger, I always fought so hard to not be considered a "girly" girl, and I realize how damaging that sense of masculine/feminine binary and the weak/strong connotations of that binary kept me from just enjoying the things I liked. Now, I just enjoy the things I'm interested in, whether it's marketed to my demographic or not. And I've felt so much more comfortable with myself and my hobbies since. Again, thanks for a great video. Well done.
Thank you for the Super Thanks, Ma! I'm so glad that you enjoyed the video!
It is just as you say: at the end of the day, living into one's fullest self will bring one more inner-peace and comfort than any amount of conforming to the expectations of others. I hope the industry will become slowly more aware of that overtime, as well!
Yeah those sites were the best! I also really enjoyed online avtar type games like animal jam and movie star planet. I supposed they were meant to function more as chat forums rather than games but I mainly enjoyed the mini games and collector aspects of them :)
Ahh I used to love Bella Sara I still remember my old log in :')
Wait... Bella Sara was shuted down? It sucks, i loved it when i was a kid
I'm sure there are plenty of UA-cam videos that touch on the female experience, but to find one so eloquently crafted BY A MAN was honestly so refreshing and I feel incredibly seen watching this video. You certainly do your research and it shows in the quality. I love love love your content and can't wait to see what you put out next!
For the girls' game experiences, you forgot DDR! My entire childhood was DDR on Xbox and then Rock Band on 360. Also those Facebook games all kinda based on Farmville with a different skin over it. I remember a Hunger Games one that was just as bizarre as "Hunger Games Farmville" sounds. I was also waiting for Webkinz - literally all of my AFAB friends growing up (very late millennial/early Z) had Webkinz. But otherwise, yeah, flash games, Barbie games, Minecraft - all very accurate, and I've definitely been called out 😂
I have vague memories of helping my little sister play Barbie games like a secret agent stealth game that was a poor man's Metal Gear Solid. Good times.
In retrospect, and based on what I have seen from that game's fanbase, it is kind of incredible the stealth genre never gained a reputation as a female-targeted genre. No, really, think about the absurd levels of male fanservice in those stealth suits, how crazy girls are for secret agent stuff (there's a reason James Bond gets all the ladies), and how the emphasis of a stealth game is essentially to avoid violence and confrontation but still come out on top and empowered through clever manipulation. All of these things should make them an obvious draw for the female audience. Yet you don't really see that association until you see the female section of the fanbase and it all clicks.
you didn't have to call me out like that LMAO
Totally Spies~ 👏 best spy cartoon show~ its funny
In most games I have the oportunity to be stealthy I absolutely will be. There are different aspects I love about it, from the tense moments when you're trying not to get caught to the satisfaction of getting through a level as if you were never even there, to the excitement of being able to secretly take out everyone without anyone noticing until it's too late. But the best part is having to figure out how to actually do it, it's the same with strategy games, puzzle games or tycoon games, having to put thought into what I'm doing is fun, especially when it works out well. I have no idea why girl games were reduced to dressing up and taking care of babies or animals when super cool stealthy games were right there.
Oh hell yeah, barbie spy adventures was great
A Kim Possible game with such premise would have sell so well in the early 2000s.
THANK YOU for the compassionate way you talk about little girls and their interests.
I was a little girl once who liked video games and almost gave up on it completely because of all the toxicity and bullying. I grew up with a twin brother, so the „boys‘ things are much more important than your silly little girl interests and either you quit the girliness or you can‘t do boy things“ was pretty much the sound of my childhood.
I‘m only a young adult now, but when I look back I often see that to this day, little girls or female teenagers are interestingly pushed towards stereotypically feminine by culture, marketing, parents and so on quite a lot - but on the other hand, very frequently ridiculed and shamed for actually enjoying „frivolous girly things“.
When I was a kid, no one asked what I liked when I said that I was looking for my first games to play, they just told me what they thought i SHOULD like.
Hearing a grown man talk about girls and their interests as a demographic with nothing but respect for both the people and the things… it genuinely makes me happy. Without people like you, I never would have had the courage to pursue my interest in games all the way into adulthood.
I highly doubt you experienced any bullying for your interest in video games since boys/men don't care about the gender of gamers, that said I suspect you're just looking for sympathy. Also it's the fault of girls women for being interested in stereotypically feminine things, stereotypes exist for a reason you know.
@@MetaKnight964
It‘s a little sad that people still tell me „oh the bullying was your fault since you also liked girly things, pick a side“. I was eight. No eight year old deserves to have friends or family or teachers tell them to quit their favourite hobby. That, obviously, includes all the little boys who get bullied or reprimanded or ridiculed for „girl“ interests, too.
Well, a world we live in. I hope you have a nice day.
@@MetaKnight964wow, it’s so cool that you know this person’s life better than she does! That’s wild, are you a psychic or something?
(Oh, and, P.S., as another female gamer, I can assure you that she is completely correct and guy gamers do care about gender and can be really shitty about it)
@@ally939 He said "I doubt", meaning he's doubting the interpretation.
Maybe he thought the word "bullying" was exaggerated.
Sadly because of Twitt*r's crazy people everyone is questioning people's intentions and suspecting it's for attention only.
Anyway sure in online lobbies with teenagers they could get too much excited and say nonsense if they hear a girl's voice but like in school or anything ? Never heard about such situations, but again I don't remember that many girls openly playing video games
@@MetaKnight964I can’t take even take your comment seriously.
Any civilization builder game is just "House" on a grander scale.
umm.... what about animal crossing?
@@Whimsykit yeah I think that counts
Dwarf Fortress?
@@chaotickreg7024 my girlfriend bought dwarf fortress when it released on steam in december. combined we have put ~335 hours into the game so far. dwarf fortress is a girl game!
@@ellasorellabrella omfg I put in almost 200 in the first couple weeks. I guess gender is a spectrum or something or whatever.
As a teenage girl, this channel is like a comfort zone 😭💜 thx for standing up for us.
I always wanted to game when I was younger more often, but I found that rarely there were more feminine games that were affordable + on whatever console I had + interesting + could easily teach me how to play. Whereas the boys in my grade had endless options and their brothers taught them how to play! I tried to ask my neighbors, all male, to teach me, but they’d just berate me and take the controller away. It left me feeling isolated! Finally as an adult I have returned to trying to learn how to play, and I’ve gotten pretty good! I learned how to play on games like the uncharted series, and moved onto BOTW and OOT to practice my combat, and now I’m playing skyward sword. I have been also playing overwatch for awhile now, and while I don’t play competitively, I can keep up with really high ranking team members! And it makes me so happy to see so many other women feel included and represented in the newer games. I see a lot more female players now than I ever did in the past. I really enjoyed this video, thanks for sharing!
That makes me glad. I always hated the getting mad when people didn't get it or had a hard time thing. I was raised as a boy so I was able to learn to play games in a better way but still was always drawn to being able to pick the girl characters (as soon as i got over the social pressure from other boys to pick male characters) and loved more girly games too (like nintendogs + cats). Zelda is my favorite by far and even though some see the games start or companions as annoying i do think if you are new to gaming they really help. Its such a shame that such a large part of the population gets excluded.
To try and give a different perspective on your childhood experience:
Most people learn games via trial by fire, even those with older siblings. Teaching someone that doesn't even have the basics is frustrating due to that, and younger gamers will almost invariably express their frustration without thinking and try to teach by showing without asking. That said, some are just dicks and would rather turn the frustrating experience that they don't know how to handle into one that is just fun for themselves. Both are quite inconsiderate, but I'm sure at least some of your neighbors were the former and likely tried to do the right thing in the wrong way.
To elaborate on "even those with older siblings." Older siblings and older gamers in general are more humanoid training wheels and hint books rather than teachers. My older sister, for example, would get me past parts of Yoshi's Island that I just couldn't do, and I could watch her play. My cousins (also girls) taught me about the flute in Mario Bros 3. My grandma showed me how to get to Star Road in Mario World. Otherwise, I was on my own, especially if I was playing an RPG.
Still, that's quite the opposite experience to yours, and maybe that was due to being the youngest of a family that played games or maybe because I was the only boy in a female dominant family. I honestly have no idea which.
Anyways, that doesn't change the isolated feeling you had at the time, and I'm sorry you went through that. Congratulations on the eventual breakthrough into gaming! Nintendo and Naughy Dog were the right choices for learning, and I hope you continue to find more wonderful games and genres that interest you.
I remember being a kid and wanting a Minecraft book that my teacher was giving away (someone had lost it months before and never claimed it). I showed up to shoot my shot at getting the book and was IMMEDIATELY met with protests because "Girls don't play Minecraft!" Teacher took one look at this and gave me the book right there. It definitely got those boys to shut up!
I love BioWare so much because DA and Mass Effect are the only AAA games that make me feel like I'm part of their demographic and not just an after-thought
The dragon age series is very similar. It was written for both male, and female protagonist in mind. Also, most MMORPGS are similar. You can create whatever character you want, and can make your own adventure.
@Weyland Punani It's not about being upset about how not everything's for "me", it's disappointment on the fact NOTHING is. I'm not saying I don't enjoy male-centric games, I'm just saying that I congratulate BioWare for thinking of more diverse stories that see me as an equal consumer. I'm not whining at all, but I guess you can't relate
@Weyland Punani sounds like a crybaby man. Now go back into your mothers basement
@@powdermonkey9300 trust me i feel that trying to have long hair as a male in a game OMG it is SO hard so so so few games have long hair options
When you listed off the "games you may have played as a girl" I felt like you literally picked up my brain and put it into that section haha
OMG me too! I just got to that part and I literally gasped. It was too real.
I noticed something interesting about the girl game list you mentioned(2:50). None of the games listed came from a popular animated tv show geared toward girls(with the exception of Hamtaro). I was kind of expecting a Kim Possible or Totally Spies game to make the list.
yeah i will say the Kim Possible platform jumper/shooter i had on ds was one of my favorites
I've often wondered why so many specifically girly games came off as shovelware. I never knew about the history with purple moon or the other studios that Mattel bought out. It really puts the concept of games for girls into a new light.
There's a lot that wasn't touched on here. For instance how many girl games were developed by male developers, and just low budget versions of "boy" games but with a pink coat of paint, very uninspired by people who didn't want to work on them. Rushed copy+paste games. Then there's this idea that girls want the same gameplay as guys, but with mindnumbingly easy difficulty (that's an issue that still plagues today's games, like hello kitty kruisers). The girl games that are actually good were either very serious attempts to really capture what girls wanted.... or they're japanese games localized into english because they've pretty much nailed it.
this is a fantastic video. as a girl gamer who is widely turned off by most "girly games", but is also losing interest in every other game that i've exhausted, i can definitively say that quality girls games are sorely needed!! i will be sharing this with everyone i know lol
If you are turned off by girly games, than why do you want better ones? If I lived in your shoes I would not want to play any.
@@BlackbeltHitoshithey are probably turned off by them because of the quality and so having higher quality “girly games” will peek their interest and make it enjoyable for them
as another woman gamer I can tell you that I have found new joy in games that let you build up your home and town by doing whatever in it. Try My time at Portia and My time at Sandrock, and also Slime Rancher 1&2, those are all relatively new games not even marketed at girls but are just slow paced, not competetive and focus on the stories and cute crap to get/do. I'm approaching 30 so am I clearly not the market for those but damn do I love them.
Sun Haven is decent if you like farming Sims, fantasy, and anime.
Yume Nikki exists, you can play that.
Where in the world is Carmen Sandeigo and other edutainment games attracted both male and female young kids in the 90's.
Carmen was one of the first major female prolific gaming characters, years before Laura croft took the market by storm in the mid 90's.
Another great video.
Carmen for smash
Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego taught me a lot and it was so fun
I have a lady friend who says she likes Crusader Kings 2 a lot. Specifically she cited the fact that marriage existed as a mechanic as a big reason why she enjoys it. Im sure that the game's social engine has lots of potential as a draw for girls in the tween and up demographics
She's lying, it's because of the genocide and religious wars.
It's basically a high-stakes version of the game children play where they grab two dolls and shout "now kiss!"
Unless you're playing a Greek character. Then you spend even more time cutting out bits from the dolls.
Hoo boy she will like the third game then! Like, the new detailed models on top of all the intrigue. :) It's why I prefer it myself. There's even cosmetic options and a photo booth!
It's funny because for the uninitiated, I usually shorthand what CK is as Sims meets RISK, played in Excel with pretty graphics.
Keep your Ladyfriend far away from politics or Military Power for the Sake of all of us.
I cried several times. you have spoken to several things about girlhood and gaming that i have never been able to fully articulate or name myself.
i love characters and in dragon age i only walk around so i can hear my cool hot friends talk to each other (also so i can blow up someone artfully, which is another valid human desire)
and when i transitioned from webkinz and dress up games into the more masculine skyrim and assassins creed, i made up the difference of the lacking character development by writing my own stories in my head about the characters and thinking about them.
i wish girly games weren't seen as guilty pleasure activities and instead celebrated for their unique mechanics and strengths. having friends is fun! romance with imaginary people is fun! having a cute simple little home with a simple little life is fun!
i feel like the same ideas apply to more than just games, but toys, clothes, movies, and beyond
im so glad this video exists 🥰
i blame it on 80s propaganda boys blue girls pink thingy. in reality taste is acquired and fantasy is universal and there's nothing manly or girly on brick stacking game. also i kinda hate the "unnecessary" gender stereotyped stuff that hold no grounds and divisive like barbie toys. i mean we all enjoyed the movies but the dolls set price man yikes, we got better value by playing sims instead.
in fact, wait a sec, the stereotyped plays are around playing house and tea party, are they (marketers) just. . . pushing feudal noble's games to everyone? like hunting for boys/ men and tea party for girls/ women?
the fact that you listed every single game I played and some of my present day faves in the first minutes means I am legally obligated to share this with all my friends lmao
"Maybe it's a problem, Sherry, that little girls DON'T like to play games that slaughter entire planets" has the same energy as Yahtzee Croshaw's "What is it with you and NOT stabbing people?"
I know right? What a bizarre statement. Like story telling and character driven narrative is bad? Hope they’ve seen the game undertale by now.
@@twocents7509 ?
Seriously. Maybe the problem was the industry insisting on games where you slaughter entire planets?
@@domesticcat1725 ???
@@willferrous8677 I just wanted to comment here to say I see you.
I don't get their responses either.
The entire point was maybe the problem is girls are too passive
Thanks for making a video on a potentially controversial topic and bringing this to light! Its very true, just make good games and don't worry about overgendering them.
Im a woman gamer since the 90s and I actually had never heard of pretty much all of these games 😂 I played a lot of city builder esque games like Age of Empires 2, Pharaoh, SIM Safari (and Ant, Farm, and Earth but actually not Sims) and then Assassin's Ceeed, Mass Effect, Skyrim, Dark Souls, etc. My favorite shooters were Golden Eye, COD Zombies, and PUBG.
The classic Lara Croft / Tomb Raider games never appealed to me UNTIL Square Enix released their version and I ate it up. I had actually always played as male characters when given the choice in games, but when I played as Lara in Square Enix's Tomb Raider I felt like a badass and not hyper sexualized. It was neat to actually experience a strong female character. And in Mass Effect ofc I was Fem Shep 😏
Although seeing a game in pink is an instant turn off because I don't enjoy the old stereotype of "girly", ill be dammed if horses arent universally enjoyed by women 😂
You're not the only one, I haven't played those games either and this list angered me (something that rarely happens), so your calmness impresses me!
I think Moon does not comprehend/paint the "female" gamer experience well. But I guess that it's hard to grasp when you've not been through it.
Even so, a lot of this reinforces gender stereotypes, one of the things that are the most harmful to video games in my opinion.
So I'm feeling pretty frustrated right now
@@wjsa4l941 I understand your frustration-I myself am a big CRPG- and indie-head who played maybe just 2 games off that list-but the list was never meant to be exhaustive (and Moon even specifies that he's listing games explicitly targeted towards women-"explicitly targeted towards" being the operative words here, not "women"). Women aren't a monolith, so for every person who feels represented by the list, there are others who don't-and that's ok. The existence of one doesn't preclude the other. And I personally think we gotta move past the whole second-wave thing where we try to distance ourselves from feminine things because we conceive of them as inherently inferior to neuter or masculine things-I get it, it was a survival tactic in a world hostile to us, but we gotta move past it. There's room in the gaming sphere for both enjoyment of stereotypically feminine games and games that reject gendered stereotypes-and if there isn't, we should be making space for it.
Women love aoe2
I am a male guy and I LOVE THE SIMS (the older ones without excessive DLCs) and Cities Skyline, i love decorate and make the cities and houses how i seems fit and try my best to make them look pretty, it doesn't make less of a guy or something like that, i just like make things look good
I think that more games that should apeel to this aspect should be made indeed but like you said, without pull for a gender or another, just let people have fun as they seems fit
"male guy" is an oxymoron...
@@4rumani maybe he meant manly man? As in, generally displaying stereotypically male characteristics and enjoying stereotypically masculine things but still loving The Sims, which are for some reason considered "girly" games.
@@4rumani It's a redundancy, not an oxymoron. "male girl" would be an oxymoron.
Then you obviously never played the sense original games like you claim because the original games have a shitload of DLC
@@Eagle_Owl2 i think he meant cis man, but alas we'll never know unless the person comes back to elaborate
It was so weird to see you sum up me and my friends's gaming experiences as kids. Fun thing is, Barbie Fashion Designer was so formative for me lol. I work as a designer in the fashion industry now because I loved that game so much, and because I discovered I had an eye for colour combinations through that game. I feel so weirdly seen, it's hilarious.
Dang that’s pretty neat how those formative gaming years shape a person. It would be cool to do a deep dive into peoples first games to see what kind of career path they took and see if the games they played had any correlation.
@@dynogamergurl I'd love for someone to do that tbh. It'd be so interesting to see if there's a correlation, and how people's first games shaped them. Personally, I think there's a correlation in a lot of cases, although it might not be obvious at first glance. For example, if someone's first game was Age of Empires II or Civilization or something like that - then perhaps they discovered a talent for strategy and planning, and ended up using that through their job as a teacher, politician, project manager, or developer. The correlation would probably be really obvious if the person became a politician or project manager, and less obvious if they were a teacher.
For me it was Bratz The Movie on PS2. I am a designer now because of the Design a Tshirt and Poster feature in that game, as well as loads of quests that gave me the liberty to come up with makeup, hair and outfits. Games like that one made me really appreciate games and now I'm working in the industry as a character designer!
Haha I took Graphic Design in school and have a love for computers and became a PC gamer because of the Barbie Fashion Design game. I'm calling it a game. ❤❤
@@canhedotricks6078 That's so cool!! Character design really is an art.
There aren't many "girls' games" in the Western market (if you ignore dating sims, etc. targeted at teenage girls and young women) but in Japan, there's an entire genre of games called otome games ("otome" means "maiden") and although most of them fall into the romance category, there are some that focus on other kinds of relationships and have adventure, mystery, etc. elements. Lots of idol rhythm games (like IDOLiSH7, for example) are also targeted at teenage girls.
Also, this was a really interesting video to watch, as someone who LOVED playing dress-up games as a kid. It's really sad and honestly frustrating how the gaming industry, one that is meant to bring fun to everyone, overlooks and almost ignores the young female demographic. I'm not super into games but it still frustrates me how we girls and women are practically ignored or treated like an afterthought in yet another industry.
As a woman that's into gaming, I concur, Otome slaps. It's just a shame that tons of good Otome games won't get officially released in english nor translated at all. It motivated me to try and learn japanese so I can get games aimed at women, since in western market there's not a lot of titles that scratch that itch. The closest thing to good games aimed at women in western market would probably be platformers. Alice madness returns (ea doesnt have faith in the market for this game so they cancelled the sequel), A hat in time, ori and the blind forest. Cute/beautiful games that invoke emotions.
@@rainbowmagic3585 I recommend Super Gem Fighter Mini Mix, is a fighting game with adorable animations and a good roster of female characters.
Having played a bunch of my sister's 'girly' games growing up, it's nice to see a video like this
I'm a boy and I LOVED the first two Hamtaro games. I couldn't get enough of them! I tried a bit of Star Stable too and found it pretty relaxing.
boys are awesome
Man I only log into Star Stable about once every other month these days but I have been a lifetime "star rider" member since... 2014 I think? It really is quite charming and relaxing (with chat closed at least)
Girls are awesome too🤨🤨
Everyone are awesome
Portal isn't exactly a "girl game," but it's another one of those universal experiences among the gamer women I know.
I think stray will become this generation's portal. Not necessarily girly but so many girls love it
The Portal series is kind of sort of (in a really deep-dive, non-surface level way) about a toxic relationship between mother and daughter against the backdrop of STEM. For that reason alone I'd say it's a must-play for any woman even slightly interested in video games, to say nothing of how good the games are beside the themes.
True! It was one of my favorites growing up
It's funny that although everyone is aware that the protag of Portal IS a woman, people don't see it as a game oriented towards women. Also, our villain is also vocalized by a woman but because it doesn't have all the window dressing & gender coding oriented at girls/women, people don't see it that way. And, I don't know if it's me, but I feel LOTS of women truly enjoy puzzle & strategy games. That dopamine tends to hit me HARD which is why when Moon mentioned Ace Attorney, I choked a bit. lol
Also yes, i have a portal gun. (They physically coded our Protag as Latina or mixed race so I latched on it REAL fast as a latina myself.)
As a woman, Portal was freaking awesome! I loved the problem solving element. It’s too bad they never came out with more 😢
I adored this video! One thing: as a former little girl who played and loved Purple Moon games, the demographic for those games was nerd girls who already weren't into stereotypically girly things. I never cared about shopping and dating as a kid. I wanted soft, unscary games (monsters freaked me out) that were about friends and exploring and problem solving, not about boys and dresses. Purple Moon already had a market, but the issue is they were targeting the age range where girls are most stereotypical. Few of us existed. It was a small but adoring market.
Thank you for covering this! You made me realize that, even tought I grew up tomboy, creative games and dress-up games where indeed some of my favourite growing up, especially since only as an adult I could afford my dream console line, the DS and 3DS, and catching up on that amazing long awaited Pokemon and Cooking Mama action.
So instead of Xbox or Playstation, I had Ourworld, Whirled, Kongregate, Armor Games, Nitrome (really love Nitrome's cohesive library) and so so much more I can barely name since I was 11 and barely knew English at the time to tell you.
I’m a gen z girl so I’ve never experienced Barbie Fashion designer but it sounds like something I would have loved as a kid. If it were to be remade it could include features like teaching kids how to make the outfit they designed for themselves and their barbie step by step and giving them a runway tutorial so them and their barbies could be models. 🥰
Sounds adorable
@@Kreepie11 Oh my gosh, that's an amazing thought!
Oooh i love that! Sewing instructions based on what you make in the game. That would be such a useful tool for me as an adult who likes sewing!
Just like i've once built my irl flat in the Sims in order to look how i could rearrange my furniture. :)
Games can be so useful, as a sideeffect to the FUN they're mainly about :)
That part about men enjoying "girls games" mechanics without realizing was quite the revelation to me because I never thought of it before. Taking a quick look at the TF2 community as a whole and how dressing up the mercenaries became one of the core aspects of the game, for some even beyond the core gameplay, goes to show that there are many men who enjoy dress-up games even if they're unaware of it. I have a friend who was absolutely obsessed with the dress-up aspects of TF2, and even to this day he still enjoys dressing up his mercenaries in cool loadouts as plenty of the community does, yet I bet he would never think of himself as someone who could enjoy a girly game that revolves around dressing up a character.
And while TF2 is probably the most glaring example, dress-up elements are present in many games with a primarily male demographic who enjoys those aspects, even back in the day when GTA San Andreas was still new, being able to dress CJ in a wide variety of clothes and give him hairstyles, while minuscule parts of the game, are still things I enjoyed doing and that contributed to my enjoyment of it.
Your comment about GTA is exactly the issue. You're willing to play a dressup minigame but would you play the GTA Online character creator if there was no game afterward?
People do NOT realise how fun it is to express yourself through fashion and design. Ah yes, designing armour and imagining the nuance of how blood and dirt would splatter it, 'girly' hobby.
@@galaxyjam3742 That's not how a dressup game works though. You dont pick armour and see your hero dressed in it... you pick some pixels and then start again.
You probably dont think reloading in an FPS is stupid but would you play a reloading game where you press X to watch an animation?
What if you could only dress a Barbie but never play with it? That's what we call a "girl game".
@@SeekerGoldstone Bad take. For starters, yes I would watch a gun being reloaded because the noises and motion is satisfying. Secondly, dress up games are so much more than that, you DO get to see the result, and ARMOUR IS STILL DRESS, DRESSING UP CHARACTERS IN ARMOUR IS STILL DRESSING THEM UP?????? DID YOU MISS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE VIDEO???????
@@galaxyjam3742 The hypothetical reloading game is a bad game. Only picking clothes is a bad game.
Dressing your hero in armour is a tiny piece of the whole game that is meaningful because the rest of the game exists. Looking at a thumbnail of a shirt and clicking on it to see a 3d render isnt the same as picking a shirt to cross unknown lands in. If I dont have a reason to care about who the character is or what they do, what am I picking a shirt for in the first place?
I am happy to pick a shirt and go shoot guys in it. I'm not interested in pressing X to pick shirts or tapping R1 to cause gibs. A game needs a gameplay loop.
Just wanted to chime in as a millenial who grew up playing, yes, the sims, but also strategy games like age of empires and heroes of might and magic, and had "girls nights" where me and my best friend played mario on her projector screen until we crashed... good times lol 😌
I never identified with "girly" things like barbie/pink/glitter, and "girls games" being so extremely stereotypical back then definitely scared me off of them -- which probably contributed in some small way to the same internalized misogyny that made me shun twilight, dresses, romance media, and other "girly" things that objectively have merit (yes, even twilight). If these things, including girls games, were taken seriously by adults back then -- were well-crafted, marketed with nuance, thoughtfully reviewed and discussed with respect -- I wouldn't have had to miss out. Not only that, I wouldn't have had to struggle accepting the sides of myself that society categorizes as "girly".
I think there are a lot of women and girls like me out there -- I loved, and still do love, adventure, storytelling, strategy, logistics and historical and high fantasy settings. There needs to be space for women in these categories (and when there are no AAA adventure/strategy games specifically for women, "boy games" have to accomodate us, which leads to internet vitriol from men/boys). But I think what me and my friend loved the most was the "constructive" aspect of these games. Building stuff up instead of tearing it down. I feel this is an essential part of most "girls games", that gamers and devs of these games understand intuitively, but is overlooked when the larger gaming community talks about what makes a game "girly". It is not at all an exclusively girly trait, just as competition is not exclusively boyish, but to me it feels incrediblycentral to any discussion on girly/boyish games.
Thank you for an incredibly thoughtful, well-researched and well-argued video! Love reading all the perspectives in the comments as well. This was long overdue!
(Obligatory "english is not my native language" lol sorry for any mistakes)
Omg I forgot about how much I liked heroes and by extension starcraft. I was young and never got very far but I had hours of fun building little alien cities and clicking on pots of gold.
You raise an interesting point in that the central theme to “girly games” was building. When I think of the games I loved growing up, they all had something to do with building or creation. I was never interested in fps games personally, but I liked building and controlling my own world (like sims and civilisation). Never thought about that before, so thanks for that!
Yes! RTS games with base building mechanics were my absolute favourites as a little girl :)
Thank you for this video! I am sad that girl/woman gamers are highly underrated target group in this industry and we get mocked about it too. I myself have always preferred games that are fairly easy to learn and have lots of things to see, not forgetting well written story. As kid I loved Commander Keen and Jazz the Jackrabbit, Mario and Zelda games and when Final Fantasy VII was launched on PS1 I was sold and have been a Final Fantasy fangirl ever since. I love games where main purpose isn't fighting but exploring and adventuring, learning new skills and interacting with other characters. If fighting system is too complicated or fighting takes too much time in game I lose interest quickly. And I have to admit that graphics and drawing style play high role here; I like more of a soft, cartoonish style than realistic and edgy.
I'm more than happy about the rise of the cozy games like Stardew Valley and Slime Rancher and I think the most important thing in gaming isn't winning or being the best, but having fun and enjoying the game itself.
This reminds me of when I got into running tabletop D&D games and had a group of young male players. One expressed astonishment that Id prepared stories and characters because all of the games he had been in had only focused on combat.
Some of us have a ton of fun without narratives, dress up and social interactions, and some of us have a ton of fun without combat, competition and high stakes, but I have to imagine most of us want some degree of both.
tbf a bunch of japanese companies started developing massively successful games marketed towards older women, usually office women
mobile otome games like mystic messenger, ensemble stars, twisted wonderland, idolosh7, a3!, etc etc are all games developed within the past 5-10 years that have produced an extremely popular and profitable industry, but most of them remain popular only in eastern countries. unfortunately most attempts to bring these games over to an english speaking audience haven’t been as widely successful, possibly because of the stigma labeling them as “girl games”
Otome games are growing very fast here as well; albeit not keeping up with the insane demand in Japan/Korea/China. Aksys for example has basically pivoted their entire company to pretty much just localizing otome games and other girly games (such as pretty princess).
doesn't sound like a real game, sounds like exploitative shit
Shining Nikki is an excellent mobile game which fits here. It was released in English (Worldwide) just over two years ago. It is a lovely game.
I'd like to point out that a good majority of otome games (such as mystic messenger) are Korean, not Japanese.
@@EvidentlyThinking A lot of *mobile* otome games are korean, you're right. But on consoles they're pretty much all japanese, and the otome genre comes from japan as well (hence the name).
I find it interesting how a lot of the more recent games you mentioned as the "girly" games from peoples childhood, are the same ones that are some of the biggest games in the world. Fortnite, VALORANT and League of Legends do have pretty big female audiences considering the latter twos reputation for being highly competitive and not being traditionally what a AAA game company would consider to be a "game for girls", and I think its kind of indicative of games now trying to appeal to wider audiences, rather than JUST guys or JUST girls. It could also just indicate more women are cementing themselves in genres traditionally considered to be entirely male dominated (MOBAs and Shooters). Either way, the demographics are definitely changing and that's pretty exciting.
Despite that, it would still be nice to see more games specifically catered towards a female audience as more variety of games and more variety in the people that play them is always a good thing.
It be better to not gender games at all like harvest moon wasn't aim at any gender
Well, there are a lot of games that are much more specific to a female audience AND leaves some room for other genders. I’ll recommend you to Obey Me! and Twisted Wonderland. They aren’t necessarily romantic and how the characters address their protagonists are gender-neutral. They are a niche part of a group of girl games called joseimuke.
As a trans woman still recovering from being raised male and from complex trauma, thank you so much for affirming the value of femininity. I’m so glad that we’re having this cultural moment right now where women are coming to embrace femininity despite so much social pressure to be more “masculine” and reject it altogether.
I feel like point and click adventure games in general were popular with the female demographic. And, interestingly, they often had female protagonists as well (I'm thinking of The Longest Journey, Syberia, Still Life and Culpa Innata in particular). I was quite obsessed with them as a teenager!
Super Princess Peach was my childhood passion and I truly think it would be successful if done over today with all of the hype around the franchise right now - it was an amazing game with so many more mechanics than the typical Mario games at the time, forever will it hold a special place in my heart
i hope you're happy with the recent nintendo direct
@@sxphity Thank you 🥺🥺 If Peach gets another solo game I will wear her dress at my wedding or some shit god this is exciting
Hopefully that new Peach game revitalizes the concept
@@wombatpandaa9774 that would be (in my opinion) the best case scenario, but I’m not hopeful for that happening, still, I’m absolutely looking forward to whatever the outcome is nonetheless!
As a guy, I’m still confounded by the fact that there had never been a Legend of Zelda game where you actually play as Zelda. Another Peach game will probably happen before Nintendo ever lets you as the title character of the Zelda franchise in something that’s not a Dynasty Warriors
I wanted to protest at first: I'm a woman in my 30s, and I grew up playing Mario Bros., Sonic, etc, and never played Hamtaro or Nancy Drew games. But when you started to mention a lot of the games that aren't specifically marketed towards girls but seem to be popular among girls and women (Neopets, Stardew Valley, Team Fortress 2) I felt targeted lol.
I'm happy that in my family, video games were never seen as a masculine hobby. My mother doesn't enjoy video games, because she doesn't enjoy any games whatsoever because she is a sore loser. But she would never stop me or consider video games masculine. However, there was budget concerns, so I grew up playing a lot of older games. Played on NES and Atari in the late 90s. Don't get me wrong: she definitely has some outdated ideas about gender, and wanted to put me in frilly dresses and considered sports for boys, but video games were gender neutral in her eyes.
When I got a chipped Playstation as a gift from my estranged father, he had gotten me a wide variety of pirated games without any consideration for age or genre. Some were good, some were bad. But since pirating didn't always work, he had told my younger half-brother to pick a game from a store for me. My brother, who was about 9 years old back then, picked "Barbie Super Sports" because I was a girl... I didn't like being stereotyped like that by my brother, and the game was SO boring. Thankfully, a lot of the pirated games worked, so I could spend more time on Monster Rancher 2, Spyro 3 and Disney's Tarzan instead - until I could afford buying games of my own.
I can really recognise myself in those 90s gamer girls you quoted. I felt enough pressure from society to like pink and dresses and makeup as it were. Video games were a haven from that. I wanted to collect cool animals (Pokémon/Monster Rancher/Neopets), jump my way through cool level designs (Mario/Sonic/Spyro) or just lose myself in a timeless puzzle game (Arkanoid/Tetris/Puzzle Pirates). So, as an adult when I finally got around to play Mass Effect, I enjoyed it a lot. I could pick a female protagonist, but not be assumed to like frilly and pink stuff.
Calling ur mom a sore loser? Damn, lol
"protest"... yeah no one cares protest all you want
@@meikusakabe4167i care, piss off
Even in games like Mass Effect though, every now and then interactions seem odd because the game just assumes you’re gonna play as the male character. Every tutorial or playthrough or description of the game was using the male character too.
From the games mentioned here I only used to play the Sims but since have been playing male oriented games, where I can only play as a white male character. It’s so boring!
wow youre so not like the other girls !!! Heres a cookie
This was incredibly validating for someone like me who has loved games since a young age! My favorites were Tomb Raider and The Sims and Skyrim and, of course, I enjoyed playing with Barbies in general! And you can see the similarities between them! I understand that Tomb Raider was originally targeted towards boys, but for me, it was a game mostly for girls. In Tomb Raider, I could have everything I wanted. Lara was an independent girl doing what she liked, exploring contemplative and silent places, and having a beautiful home to return to. She was smart, could solve riddles, and protect herself - a truly revolutionary game that, in my opinion, should have been marketed more towards girls than boys. It's disheartening that Lara's image took a different turn in marketing campaigns.
Lately, I've been feeling this way a lot. While I do enjoy games specifically targeted at males, I also desire something less combative - a game where I can relax, enjoy exploration, and immerse myself in the world. I would love an outstanding sci-fi game without combat. I don't understand why every sci-fi game has to involve war in the story. Can't we just chill? Can't I have a beautiful house in a futuristic space colony? You're absolutely right; many of the best "girl" games come from indie developers. There's one in development called LOFTIA, a cyberpunk + cottagecore Animal Crossing-The Sims-type game, and I'm eagerly looking forward to it! While I appreciate shooting and fighting games, sometimes I just want to chill. Unfortunately, there aren't many games like that, apart from The Sims. Even the Tomb Raider reboots seemed to shift towards being more targeted at boys again, and that turned me off from them. I'm just saddened that the industry doesn't produce games like this. Apologies for the rant, and thank you so much for creating this video!
So you just want a game you can be immersed in thats sci-fi and not action oriented?
What's the most fun, or value, that you think you should get out of a game and for what reason? I'm doing a little research, and I wanted to have some anecdotes
@@c.dl.4274 My ideal game would be a Sims-like experience with realistic graphics set in fantasy worlds, such as Skyrim or futuristic settings. For example, imagine a futuristic fantasy game where you reside in a space colony. You engage in various life simulation activities, like living in a house, interacting with people and animals, and working (the Sims aspect). Simultaneously, there's a storyline you can follow at your discretion (Skyrim aspect), featuring action, adventure, and riddles. While Skyrim was almost the perfect game for me, the absence of the life simulation aspect left me yearning for a more immersive experience in that world.
@@italyyeoja I recommend Viva Piñata for clam game, you can find it on Rare Replay.
I remember being so excited for Barbie's Horse game, but playing it realized it wasn't high quality like the games my dad and I played so I put it down and never got another one. I would have loved having better quality girl games growing up, the want was there
Lately I've appreciated the Atelier series a lot, it's really confident in building its own girl-centric power fantasy around experimentation and mastery of robust crafting systems. The otome influences are very prevalent and make the characters appealing and comfy.
Yes! I love the Atelier games do much. I always get addicted to crafting new and better items.
Atelier is actually a game targeted at males, the girls are particularly designed that way
They toned down the male fanservice a bit recently though, so hopefully they've seen a growth in female/non-binary players and its a reflection of that
@@ystacalden The only fanservice I remember seeing is in the Ryza series, so since that's done now, I'm guessing Atelier as a whole will go back more to what it used to be. Don't remember seeing any particular fanservice in Arland, Dusk, or Mysterious myself unless I missed something.
@@AK-lg8fj you definitely missed, the Arland series has so much it actually kinda ruins the series for me because other than that i really love the games!
I've only played Ayesha of Dusk and it was slightly more toned down x
grew up as a girl and the "liked ace attorney and your favorite character was edgeworth" hit me like a haymaker to the nose
My first game as a “girl gamer” was Myst. The graphics were basically powerpoint slides but the puzzles and cerebral nature was top tier.
Another woman of culture
As a woman that grew up on the girl games that emerged in the late 2000's/early 2010's, this video is an amazing homage to a period in gaming that seems far gone.💔 I also want to mention how healing and satisfying it is for my soul, that you, a guy, talks about and respects more feminine games, seeing that (from my POV) there's currently, and have always been, such uncalled for toxicity against feminine themes and "girly" gameplay in games. Unless it's sexualised of course, then it gets a pass from the boys, but guys don't like it when we talk about that part. 😅 🥰
This has really got me thinking. It's INSANE we don't have non-shovelware, non-mobile horse games. Regular farming simulators sell well enough. You'd think by now there'd be a horse ranching sim where you raise and sell horses. I always liked turning my farm into a ranch in HM: Animal Parade and selling those horses for profit. It would be fun.
I also wish we had more breeding/raising games. I really, really miss the chao garden from SA2B. I loved tamagotchis. I've always wanted a pokemon game revolving around breeding... Or research, you know? A pokemon research game, or a monster hunter research game, where it's about observation rather than battle, I'd really love that. There's so much potential that's just not acknowledged.
There's two UA-camrs with those focuses I can think of! Rattle covers horse games specifically (sometimes dabbling in other things here and there) and Seri! Pixel Biologist has an array of animal-based games in her library! Poke around and see what you can find that interests you!
I'm a bit late to this comment, but Black Desert Online has an extremely deep horse training and breeding system, to the point that a sizeable minority of players ignore the combat and just breed horses.
One thing I **Love** about the Style Savvy series is that's a high quality dressup game with tens thousands of items, you're allowed to mix and match how you see fit, the characters are always kind to you, and nothing is sexualized. Even the item that is literally just a bikini top? You can just...wear it. Of course its one of the items meant for layering, but you just wear it. And there'd be nothing bad. And I **love** that.
I asked for Fashion Forward as a 9 year old, I got it and was addicted and I still play it occasionally. It’s a really relaxing and pretty game tbh. I thought I was the only person in America who was into it, but here we are!
My family had a tradition that during winter when it started snowing outside, my mom, my sisters and I, the little brother, would all play a new Nancy Drew game on the family desktop. I never gave a single thought to them being "games for girls," because to me, they were just mysterious, fun, and adventurous as all heck. I think I'll buy a Nancy Drew game to relive the good times. Haunted Carousel sounds fun!
I love long reflective video essays, but it is extremely rare to find a guy talk so lovingly about a genre that is painfully neglected. This actually made my day a little more fun!
My partner and I are obsessed with Japanese games because it goes HARD on being overly "feminine", it's awesome! I love a good horror game (female characters get the spotlight more often, and are far cooler in roles of an enemy), but sometimes you just want to gush over how cute and well designed things are in a game. Violent games frankly get boring after a while, but slice of life stuff makes you appreciate the small mundane things. Cute outfits, talking to and obsessing over a lovely npc, the horses!! And those fashion games definitely influenced me into making my own clothes, a skill that I am very proud of.
I'm so glad I clicked on this video :D
This video just popped on my for you page and I as a cis-women I got to say that I teared up when you talked about girly games being valuable. So much of the female experience is about being denied the value in "feminine" things. That it is somehow worth less and i am so happy that you talked about this. Definetly subscribed bc of this and also yes i played those exact game as a child. 😭♥️
Why you disrespect yourself so much calling yourself cis? You're just a woman. The trans are not your friends. They're against women and our rights.
I always wanted a game based on Jane Austen or something like this. Why doesn’t it exist yet😭
Oooh, this sounds interesting! What kind of game or what about Jane Austen's would you like?
No se si sirva, pero "Time princess" es un juego donde puedes entrar a distintas historias, aún no han hecho alguno de Jane Austen pero sí de Mujercitas, por ejemplo, y otros parecidos
Oh, my girlfriend would love that if done well.
I think there's a hidden object game of that, maybe on BigFish games for PC.
It would be fantastic.
Maybe Tell Tale or the like can do this, instead of doing Batman which already has amazing games and GoT...
Which, FromSoftware just did Elden Ring and showed how to do a game like that properly.
So maybe Tell Tale should try to make an interactive version of a classic. They don't even have to pay for licensing rights for those.
They won't be able to sell the game to all the bois who wanna shoot and blow stuff up (Well let's face it, some gents will still buy it), but a lot of women, non binary people, and members of the LGBTQIA community would totally totally eat that stuff up..
They'll make a lot of money, and if you're a guy who wants his mom, GF, sister, female boss, female coworker, female friend, etc. You know what to get her for her birthday and or Christmas...
Bam!
Just freaking do it, I wish I can someone produce this.
Girls like reading, it's the absolute truth.
It's not about partying and dress up really...
It's a good narrative with partying and dress up lol 🤣
So this is the second Moon Channel video I've watched that left me with stories to tell and thoughts to think (takes that I might or might not elaborate on).
Taking a page from HAWP, I found my desire for dress-up in the _Saints Row_ series. There's a false (erroneous?) game tip that explains you get Respect (the game's generic score value) for changing outfits, and I took that to heart. It was important to look the part, whether meeting a rival gang in full regalia at a boulevard summit, or lunching with the accountants while discussing next years budget or even hopping out on a scooter to grap a pack of smokes at the corner mart. I made sure I was color-coordinated for all occasions.