i particularly love the rpgmaker horror genre "little girl grappling with analogues to rapidly slipping mental illness" is an extreme catharsis of a genre
Growing up, it particularly resonated with me as a young autistic girl. Young girl tries to navigate strange and confusing new world with (often deadly) puzzles that, at first glance, make absolutely no sense until you pick up on some sort of obscure clue? Yeah, that's basically the female autistic social experience.
I decided to go live with my hastily assembled placeholder thumbnail, just to see how it does. This video isn't sponsored, which means there's more leeway for this kind of silliness. Please enjoy my incredible MS Paint skills!
The thumbnail is truly a high class work of art. They need to display this in museums amongst the works of Picasso and Leonardo Devinci. Philosophers and pretentious rich people will look at the piece with shock and awe.
I think it's cute how you always manage to somehow mention your sisters in basically every video that you make, hahaha It's very clear how they are really important to you
I really appreciate the section talking about young woman's interests generally being dismissed more often and hearing your own changed opinion, it's nice seeing more people understand that shame or disdain will never actually change people, only make them hide themselves, and that compassion should more often be the default response. (I've rewrote this comment like three times so I hope it makes sense)
American idiot dismissed?! :O , ok that was a good example. Not that i like kpop ut teenager have a right to have cringe taken serious, any gender. I mean that lovingly, ther is no reason to dismiss teenage girls interest there. Also i think its good to never thing to be too adult, its just part of life, who cares, but for teenager thats really important so, no reason to be dismissive of girls silly interests over everyone elses silly interests. A lot we like is silly, and that is fine. Everyone. life is too short to always be dead serious. and it can mean surprising lot so dismissing that is just a jerk move.
Do you feel disdain towards certain media because of the way it portrays women, especially in relation to men? Yes? Good, that's fair. But what's also fair is that you accept men have the exact same right in this regard, particularly towards pathetic men like Christian Grey who are glorified exclusively because of what they offer to a woman. Mind you, I'm not arguing for disdain, I'm just arguing that sometimes it's justified while sometimes it's not. And you should either continue to shamelessly enjoy what you enjoy if you make a clear distinction from real life or, y'know, stop and take a look at yourself. Other than that, just remember anita sarkeesian calling everything racist, homophobic and sexist about the video games we men enjoy and try to realize that at least critique of your likes is honest in its subjectivity (usually) whereas we have to deal with this subjectivity under the veil of objective morality. It's far easier to not lose face when telling someone to fuck off because they don't like what you do, but not as easy when you do the same but that person's planted this moral aspect of "enjoyment=evil". Why am I bothesidesing? Hell if I know, I'm tired. I'm just tryina explain that while I do kinda agree with you on principle there's caveats where I might not necessarily and I'm tryina underline where I come from so you can have clear an understanding as I can give. In the end, I guess I don't really care if someone dislikes shit I do long as they're not being dicks about it, and I think everyone else should do the same.
Horror consuming woman here. My personal reasons for loving horror media, be it games, television or film is because I get to control my anxieties and mock them in these situations. I'm a naturally anxious person and having lived in large cities (Los Angeles and Philadelphia) for many years I've been held at gunpoint multiple times and been assaulted by purse snatchers. As a 6'2" Amazon of a woman shows how fearless my attackers were. With horror media I get to be the fearless one and laugh in the face of horror through visual media. As such I love me a good Final Girl, especially films that glorify them like You're Next, the Fear Street trilogy and Ready or Not. To this day I idolize Sigourney Weaver because of her portrayal of Ellen Ripley.
The part about your sisters really got personal as it was an experience very similar to mine: I have a younger sister of 7 years and we are both into japanese media, her even more than me, for the most part anime and music. I wouldn't mock it since I knew what it felt like being the weird one in school that actually knew what the hand signs in Naruto meant, but I always wanted the anime she watched away from me. Then one day, after touching 20, I felt like my now ending adolescence and her beginning adolescence were shifting us apart, so I made a choice: we started watching anime together while having dinner with each deciding the next anime to watch and the first one I let her decide. We watch an idol anime called Uta no Prince Sama that, while a bit trashy, I really enjoyed (mostly because the music is SO GOOD). After that I engaged more with the things she loved: I watched all of Free with her, followed some Haikyuu, we showed some music to each other and I feel that initial thought of "wait, let me backtrack and be better" really helped us reconnect over the past few years. tldr; fellas, your sister might be an annoying shit, but it's YOUR annoying shit, treasure her
god I'm kind of tearing up right now. my older brother always made it a point to mock me for liking anime as a kid- and I watched all of these! even knowing that people out there consciously protected their siblings from that kind of behavior makes me so happy- your sister is so lucky.
It's often said that there's no manual for life. While that may be true, I believe the phrase "Wait, let me backtrack and be better" is the closest we'll ever get. The real key to being a complete person in adolescence and adulthood isn't 9-5s, or sex, or expensive clothing. It's bettering yourself. Unfortunately, so many people miss this, and grow unchallenged into the awful people who populate the world in disturbingly large numbers. But those who are willing to challenge their own thoughts and behavior, and make themselves into the person they want to be, will come out better and more complete as people. You made the right choice deciding to be better, and I hope it's a choice you continue to make.
Wild to learn that your audience is 70% female! fantastic analysis as always. as a social psychologist, I love that you mentioned the strengths and weaknesses of the psych theories that many other people (including my fellow academics) just uncritically except. I think it's important for the public to know that even when you're talking about sound and well-tested social and personality psych findings, the effect sizes / our ability to predict differences in people based on a psychological trait is usually quite small, often on the order of R-squared = 0.1, or about 10% variation explained
My life as a woman so far has been pretty shitty and horrfying. That's why I always made and still make horror art. My art professor used to say "I believe you are exploring your fears in a safe space, banishing them on paper - so to say". I also love playing horror games I think they have a similar effect. Allowing you to explore and live out your anxieties in a controlled enviroment. On topic of girls interests being belittled; I got massivley bullied for being into pokemon as a girl. Esp by the boys who were into it as well, they hated the thought of a girl sharing their passion I suppose. It's different nowdays, its a lot more accepted for girls to be into gaming. But these mindsets still exist sadly. Thank you for the video Moony.
@@anb1142 thank you for your interest, I'm really bad about keeping my art up to date with socials but I technicially have an account I could share with you.
Don't let others stop you from doing what you want, fact is you can't teach stupid and a lot of people are stupid a holes, also sorry about your negative experiences as a woman, the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side, we just have to be careful in this chaotic world.
As a semi-closeted bigender (Male and female) person who was born as a girl, I can absolutely relate to the being bullied for my interests part. I'm Gen Z, still a high schooler, yet sadly I can confirm that the mindset of girls being inferior gamers is still prevalent amongst young men, especially with the rise of anti-feminism and the growing popularity of "sigma" edgelord content on platforms like TikTok and UA-cam Shorts. My male classmates would literally run away from me if I wanted to talk about Final Fantasy or Tekken with them, and if they don't run away, they'd just straight up ignore me, or accuse me of being a bad gamer. I remember one time where they were talking about Blox Fruits (Roblox game), and I chimed in wanting to join their conversation, but then one of them laughed at me and said I was at level 1 (He's level 28). Even when I told him that I'm level 63, he still didn't believe me. My mom said that they probably run away since they want to hide the fact that they don't actually know a lot about the games they talked about (One of them deadass said Noctis was the main protagonist of Kingdom Hearts lmfao) while I had a lot of passion and knowledge about it so I could easily detect their BS. It is a shame that I won't be able to talk to my peere about the stuff I love, especially because I feel disconnected from the girls since all they talk about is k-pop and celebrities or whatever, but then again why would I ever become friends with an unironic Skibidi Toilet fan lol
@@melodi_bunniez Thank you for sharing your experience! Highschool was tough for me as well but thankfully I found friends who shared my interests later on. I wish for you to be able to make good friends who don't belittle you! I was able to make most of my gamer friends by attenting fg tournaments, but that is certainly not the only way to meet new people... Stay strong and good luck out there
This is amazing ❤ As a girl who loves horror games and who also suffers from severe anxiety, I find there's something strangely comforting about playing horror games, because even though they make me anxious, they also allow me to confront what's causing that anxiety directly and in the Deep down, I know that if I fail I can just restart the game In horror games I can defeat evil enemies even though I am much weaker than them. It's much more relatable and empowering than a power fantasy for me because it makes me feel like at least for a few hours being 3 times smaller than my enemy doesn't matter, I can defeat them anyway if I can just outsmart them... Anyway man, great video ❤
Same, but it ended up attracting me to high fantasdy RPGs instead of horror games. Slaughtering zombies & liches in Neverwinter, vampires in Morrowind, even 2D games like Baulder's Gate & Diablo had the feels.
i mean thats the comfort of horror, dealing with that in a safe situation. Its very valid too. To express the complex horrors of life in an acessable way, dunno maybe why i like good drama too :D Not a woman, but i think thats, yeah , explore the horrors of existing in a sensible way is why horror is such a classic genre.
In my opinion, the reason why women prefer paranormal horror is because the things that make supernatural beings like ghosts scary are, in a sense, part of the feminine experience: being watched in a private space, being followed, etc. Are fears that for many women are a reality, and horror games give the player the opportunity to defend themselves against their attackers. So horror games can also be a power fantasy: a woman previously defenseless arms herself and fights against the monster, unlike in the real world where the best we can do is avoid situations that could put us at a greater risk and leave things to others (like the police) who could very easily dismiss our anxieties as exaggerating.
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It's also worth noting the unsurprising quirk of horror games: they have more female protagonists than any other game genre. Go ahead, take a think on it and you'd be shocked how much it makes sense in hindsight.
I think it might be a bit more uncomfortable than that. Female protagonists in early horror existed for two basic reasons: to communicate that the protagonist is obviously too weak to defeat the threats in a way that will convince the target male audience, and to provide satisfaction from exploitation and pain of the virtual women (basically, virtual snuff movies). That women reclaimed it and found affirmation in it despite sexist reasons is empowering irony.
i think it's worth remembering that men also just like playing as female in characters in games and also often choose to create female characters/impersonate women online, so it's hard to say that the "lots of female protagonists in video games" phenomenon is catering specifically to women or specifically to men
@@AfutureVI agree, weird take by them. I agree with their first point, I thought for sure the second was going to be something like "can be sexualized/fetishized more" since the power fantasy self-insert angle isn't there.
I can’t exactly speak on behalf of other women, but as a female individual who enjoys horror, I find the atmosphere and creeping narratives to be very compelling. Horror as a genre can tackle very sensitive and nuanced topics via symbolisim. The true horror isn’t merely the bloodshed, but what the monster is representative of as a walking symbolic representation of the true horrors that exist in our daily life. It’s not merely the story being told, but the narrative hidden between the lines.
When I was a child, my Uncle caught me diminishing the things my little cousin liked. He started doing it to me to prove a point-that what she likes is just as valid as what I like. I will always be thankful for that lesson. ❤
holy shit, it's so fucking wonderful to see someone talk about the way in which women's interests are dismissed. i don't blame people because it seems to be so weirdly strongly built into society (think of how people talk about twilight, romance novels, shipping/aspects of fandom people perceive as being more 'femme', typically things teenage girls enjoy), but things like male friends making digs at me for my hobbies and interests made me start covering up my interests or talking disparagingly about the hobbies/others with the same interests and trying to only display hobbies that people don't make fun of as much, so i didn't appear as a typical stupid girl or something. the same thing happened with so many of my female friends, we stopped chatting about our shared interests that were seen as dumb even when there weren't others there to mock it. it's awful how people get laughed at for enjoying something that is considered a cringy 'femme' interest. it makes me really really happy to see someone who became aware of that phenomenon (again i don't blame people, it's almost societal to where you probably don't even notice it) and talk about it like this. i appreciate it so so much, it's so affirming to see by the way the rest of the video is also absolutely fantastic, i've been absolutely rapt watching, i just felt particularly strongly about the femme hobbies part and had to ramble lol. horror is a massive massive interest of mine and i never considered the femme audience for it and the potential reasons for it, it's so eye-opening and soooo damn interesting. i do play horror games a lot but in a sort of similar vein as someone who draws i have a particular interest in engaging with subject matter like psychological horror, trauma and body horror. i have debilitating anxiety (i manage it pretty well so i'm good lol) and i find it very cathartic to express themes like that in art, even if very indirect and not very literally. i guess i could compare it to the interactivity inherent in a game (though obviously there's more freedom lol) thank you so so so so so so so much for your attention to the femme experience in general, your channel is easily in my top 5 favourites overall
On the hiding interests thing: straight guy in my 20s here, but that's me with anime and anime-adjacent stuff. I have friends who I met through sports that I would never talk about this stuff about due to a fear of being dismissed/mocked. Even if I doubt that would happen today, since it happened when I was young I still don't talk to them about it, even trying to subtly hide it. Once I realised that on a conscious level, I have since made an effort to try and understand why someone is passionate about something even if I don't get it myself or it's completely outside my own interests. I think that sort of validation is really important, and that a lot of men not having personal experience with their interests being mocked (or only engaging in stuff that would be socially accepted) makes them not realize just how much it hurts.
“femme”? Well, it is synonymous with female. or is it like shorthand? I just never thought that one could replace female with femme with none the wiser, but I don’t get what underlying tones/messages/implications/subtleties, if any, this deliberate distinction is intending to convey. I really, sincerely, and filled with curiosity, want to know.
@thomasnguyen4427 I'm pretty sure the term "femme" refers to anyone who was socialized/currently identifys with being "feminine", typically (but not always) outwardly showing/feeling "girly" or "womenly" attributes If that makes sense. It has more to deal with societal ideas on gender and less to do with biological facts of being "male" or "female". My definition might be incomplete or incorrect but I hope this helps!
Eh, it's a thing that goes both ways. People pick on each other for their interests all the time. I and friends of mine have gotten some guff, quite often from women, about our particularly more nerdy interests. Especially considering I love really old games and music so much, even with co-workers I can get some snide comments. Sometimes it's fair, many times it's not. But it's not something that you should let dictate your interests or how you display them. In the end, that's your decision to make and no one can make you hide those things about yourself. In the end it's no big deal.
As a woman I feel like the reason that horror is so popular among women and girls is at least partially due to that fact that the genre is not gendered. The things that happen in horror movies/games/books can and do happen to anyone, since media is inspired from the real world. As opposed to media that is more popular with men such as FPS games, sports, action, etc where women and girls basically don’t even exist because they were not allowed to participate in actual society. There is no way to exclude women from the horrors of real life lol. Representation is very important when it comes to gaining an audience and women have been a part of the horror genre since it’s inception. If you are a woman who is interested in horror you’re not very likely to be told or be made to feel that you don’t belong or are not allowed to partake. This very heavily ties in with the part of your video where you touched on women being shamed for their interests. I really resonate with that and appreciate your self awareness of how you used to treat your sisters. Anyways I loved this video and the other one you did about video games made for girls! Looking forward to what you cook up next!
I personally feel that what you said is partially true, as male I’m attracted to fps/shooter type games but have never actually been in a situation even close to that in real life. But maybe you’re more correct than I think with the fact that any action movies I’ve seen growing would primarily have male leads. But who knows, I don’t I’m not an expert.
@@blakemcmillan5680I'm also a male and I think it's just that men/boys look up to these people or smth like that, men/boys relate to those shooters due to what OP alluded to. This topic is very deep and I don't want to explore it since I'm very stupid. But that's what I believe it is.
@@accountrandomnumber182yeah that makes a lot of sense actually, and don’t worry even if you were to go into it I still wouldn’t get since I too am stupid
@@blakemcmillan5680 I am a woman that loves horror but has never been chased by a murderer lol. What i’m saying isn’t that we DO these things but that we gravitate to where we are accepted to be by the societal norm. In America men were the only ones who could legally handle guns in military combat for more than 200 years compared to women who were banned until 2013. That is going to have a lasting effect and men in armed combat is going to be the VAST majority and the norm because of this, therefore boys and men are socially conditioned to be more interested in guns/fps. Ya feel me?
Something that occured to me while watching this video was the relationship the horror aesthetic has to the concept of physical beauty. So many women love "spooky" aesthetics even if they're not particularly frightening such as Don't Starve. It's something I'm curious about looking more into but I feel like it has something to do with the appreciation of the grotesque and "ugly" that horror provides, a sort of escapism from the constant pressure to always be beautiful as a woman. Either way, thanks for another amazing video. I always love to see more stuff making people think about gender.
i dont really like horror games, but man i love the gothic horror vibes and eldritch cosmic horror themes and story lines, bloodborne is an easy example, its not a horror game but it has all the cool sexy horror aesthetics and themes i love
I'm not a woman but I do love horror games in the way you mentioned. Living with all these anxieties, it's great to have horror games where it feels like I'm fighting back and having agency over my fears.
I'm actually not a *huge* fan of horror myself (as a woman), but my very favorite game is one dripping with cosmic horror and themes of femininity: Bloodborne. I enjoyed your commentary on this one and am only slightly disappointed my favorite game didn't get a shoutout. You strike me as a loving older brother and that's very endearing.
I actually find it funny, that when you read through comments here and elsewhere, people seem to think girls/women don't or didn't like the Souls series of games (including Bloodborne). But uh, as a guy, I kind of feel like there was a bit of gatekeeping. Every girl gamer I know who has given one of them a try, even though they thought it wouldn't be for them, ended up loving it. I think Zelda games are kind of similar. They are very human games. And I think in many ways Bloodborne and Dark Souls play similarly to horror games. Everything is dangerous. The souls games aren't even always "about challenge and difficulty" (i.e. male ideas of competition or masochism) per se, as some people assert, at least not like a round of Dance Dance Revolution or Guitar Hero on expert are. They allow for player expression in a foreboding and unforgiving world full of metaphor, mystery, nuance, and memories. You can fight back against the hollowing or the cosmic forces, in skillful or creative ways. Dark Souls is a really emotional game that ends with a very symbolic fight accompanied by a moving piano piece. There are other people struggling in these dreamland nowherelands that you can try and help save. And death itself can be both faced, embraced, conquered, and accepted. My favourite playthroughs of the souls series to watch were done by a woman (and I feel like I should mention I'm gay to clarify I wasn't watching a thirst stream lol). I was disappointed Bloodborne and Dark Souls didn't get a little chapter too lol. Bloodborne gives me goosebumps. Someone in a comment above or in the video itself mentioned that "male authors typically describe menstruation as being a source of magical power, but female authors typically describe it like body horror". The way Bloodborne explores those kinds of themes was really cool and even eye-opening. The way Bloodborne takes ideas like virgin birth, or placental and menstrual blood being magical, and retells them from a horrific perspective is really truly unique amongst stories and incredibly haunting. It's really messed up when you piece together what is happening in Bloodborne. I will never forget my first time exploring the locked-off side of Iosefka's clinic... I felt empathy for the women in Bloodborne from the game itself, if that makes sense. Arianna's story was tragic and felt gross to piece together, but I'm glad they included it too.
Bloodborne and seikiro I feel are like almost the gender leaning takes on souls games Based off both people’s reactions to them, I myself take them all as a far more cohesive narrative and theme as opposed to many who say BB and seikiro are more separate compared to souls But take all the feminine themes, ideas or things more typically known or understood in that light in bloodborne And then look and see the many more masculine actions,symbols and marks throughout seikiro, like duty, protection, work, effort, honor, and in my opinion the biggest sign is the upheaval of the other older,stronger and wiser teachers,soldiers and masters throughout People as a concept play a far bigger role in seikiro than in any of the souls games, and that seems to be something striking about it
I personally go with the "being alive is a horrifying experience" theory for horror, because that's what it's been for me. My personal experience (having tons of medical issues since birth, along with being an autistic woman and having multiple anxiety disorders, and, of course, living in general) has left me with lots of anxiety that I try and explore through horror. It allows me a safe way, for me, to process my feelings and basically give me exposure to things that trigger my anxiety safely, as you can quit a video game at anytime, or pause watching a video about horror and put if off for another day if it gets to be too much.Compared to real life, where you can't escape at all and are forced to endure the pain, I much prefer the games and videos. I think it'd also be interesting to see how people's individual experiences with society and the world affect how they see horror, as since most of my trauma was from childhood and the way I was treated as a child with a disability, I like games like Little Nightmares, or Among the Sleep, who have the horror situated in what happens to the child protags as they live in a hostile world that is against them. Anyways, interesting video! Sorry for the paragraphs- Also love the thumbnail lol-
Women are taught as children to have a lot of fear of the world around them, and that they are particularly seen as targets even from a young age. But at the same time they are constantly belittled and invalidated for having these fears. I think for some, getting a fright out of horror is cathartic because you experience the fear you have every day, but it’s validated instead of dismissed since the entire point of the horror is to scare. At least that’s how I feel
Sadly, I think this is in large part to the absence of fathers in the the home. We are seeing now multi-generational effects compounding this, as those who grew up without this are now parents that don't have a grid to know they are missing an aspect of raising stable mature adults from their children. And that includes many American households where fathers are providing. *America seems to have lost the relational side of fatherhood as a value.* As work hours and expectations increase, fathers become less and less present in the home - even when they are there. If you are perpetually overworked and under-slept, how can you really give anyone the fully engaged you experience?
I agree. I've had the "dress modest don't attract creepy guy he's only being mean because he likes you" talk many times starting very young. I suffer from extreme anxiety as an adult, but I've always loved loved horror. It almost feels like exposure therapy? Exploring my fears in a "safe" way, especially in games and art. Most of my own art is horror based and very therapeutic to make.
@@MaintDocsoh ffs, someone having a single mother is not that traumatic. I grew up with an abusive mother and neglectful father, both hurt me more than anyone else ever has. but according to this logic, at least my useless father was always there. I guess! not protecting me from being beaten, but just living with us, spewing conspiracy theories about minorities and going into debt by giving money to obvious scams. the presence of a parent isn't inherently positive.
As a straight man that has experienced feelings of fear and anxiety, I thought I wouldn't relate to this bc I never watch horror movies. But I did realize my favorite show ever is the first season of Legion, that is a sci-fi psychological horror about a young man that is anxious, fearful and in need of help that is getting ignored and told his fears are all in his head and just hallucinations. I realized I have a strong empathetic connection to David Haller, the protagonist of Legion, that is similar to what women might have watching a horror movie.
Yeah, as a cismale who hasn't ever been interested in the horror genre, I came out of thei video wondering if I should try something out in that space to see if it works for me. Who knows, maybe I will.
@@Duiker36 In my experience, if you've never been interested in horror, something like a thriller or sci-fi thriller should be more up your alley. For a game recomendation, I would say The Evil Within series. I didn't play it, but I watched some of 2 and found the horror vibe perfect.
I find it so adorable you visualize yourself as Phoenix and your sisters as Maya and Fey. like it's an alternate universe where Phoenix makes UA-cam videos about video games haha.
im a male and grew up with 2 brothers in a man dominant environment where we do brotherly activities with manly expectations, yet i made the mistake of not being a supportive brother in their passions and interests even with my position as a middle son. i recently had a younger sister, and i will not make the same mistake, thank you for standing up for your mistakes and most importantly teaching me of my own, if my sister plays horror games or has interests of all sorts ill be always supportive to her this time.
I won't lie, I shed a couple tears when you talked about your sisters. I'm sure your sisters love you lots. And this video was insightful, I used to be so into horror and true crime as a kid, but now I don't necessarily go to that kind of content anymore, and I wasn't sure what changed until now. Back then I was physically sick but doctors would tell me I'm fine and that I was just attention seeking like "other girls my age". ugh, yeah, I can definitely tell you I felt like my fears were valid through horror and true crime shows. But after almost dying because a doctor called security to escort me out of the ER (he left the practice after that), people started to believe me and I grew apart from horror and true crime in favor of more calm and colorful stuff, documentaries too. I just don't need a movie or show to help feel validated anymore and now use those mediums to feel happy and educated.
@@nicolasquijano5471 The only ways I know are the patreon (which he has in the description of his video) and the youtube membership. Not sure if there's anything else at the moment.
I can’t play horror games because, frankly, my adrenaline response is usually “freeze” (and that usually makes for bad video game play) and I’m prone to nightmares. But I watch a TON of video essays about horror games and I love them, love them, love them. I have incredible respect for the stories they convey and I am SO glad you took a video to postulate why that might be. Amazing work as always, deserves more engagement.
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate you as a creator. The first video of yours I watched was "why doesn't the industry make good girls' games?". I remember clicking on that video, hearing your voice and thinking 'okay you have two minutes to prove to me this isn't going to be a misogynistic sh*tshow', because videos made by men about the interests of women are so often exactly that. (for the reasons you touched on in this video, I think) There are few men on youtube I truly trust to treat the interests, concerns, and experiences of women with nuance and respect, and you are one of them. Great video as always.
I'm deeply honored to be included on that list of trustworthy men on youtube, commander. I hope that my content can continue to merit that vote of confidence!
@@bruciekibbutz2947to be fair, there are enough videos like that out there to justify being cynical, at least initially; remember that everyone's experiences are different and can therefore lead to people developing different reactive expectations
I think your theory holds a lot of merits but I wanted to add something else which is linked to gender roles in a way: though it's much better nowadays than it has been in the past, we still see that men and women are expected to go down certain paths in preparation for what society considers "success" in life. For example, men are expected to work hard, earn, etc, for a family while women are expected to take on a nurturing and submissive role for a family (both are expected to have families). Because of this, I think more introspective and introverted activities might not only appeal to women more but would be more compatible with the lifestyle that many women end up living as a result of these pressures. Horror is a genre that can act as a catalyst for curiosity and fascination; it's a genre where strange and abstract things can happen constantly, this could also be why we see that "cathartic" and action-packed genres are more popular among men as we know that the consequence of gender roles on men is one of neglected frustration (oftentimes coupled with perceived feelings of impotence due to the continuing financial demands of society) It could also explain why it's specifically introverted men who seem to most often share that same passion for suspenseful and paranormal horror as opposed to "cathartic" or action-packed horror; one form of horror is adequate for those who enjoy engaging on a level that is internal and cerebral while the other form of horror is adequate for those who desire feelings of empowerment and freedom from built-up personal frustration. There are men and women in both of these groups but socially constructed and enforced gender roles make it more likely to find more men/women in one group over the other. That being said, I've been living with older folks for a long time and have been exposed to how restrictive gender roles have been on them, as people from a particular time so my perspective on the way men and women live in today's society could very well be immensely fucked-up, especially since I'm a weird autistic queer and I don't know what the fuck I'm doing in society lmao Excellent as always Moony! Your channel is a gem!
I'm a man and I'm not aggressive. I like adventure games and cooking for people. I enjoy sci-fi movies but don't mind a well-written rom-com. If woman are so nurturing per their biology, why do so many of them not want children? Why do some countries experience a birth rate decline when they empower women? The problem with your blanket assertion is that it takes just one example to disprove it. As Moony said in his video, men and women aren't monoliths. We're people with different identities, values and experiences.
@@rottenavocado7647 You are predisposed to certain behaviors because of your biology. How would a single anomaly refute my statement? Would you say that bikes are a reliable form of transportation? i would. Maybe i purchase one that is an unreliable pos. Would i say that bikes are therefore not a reliable way to get across town? Anthropological history is just one man's rule usurped by another's. i don't recall many wars being started by women... Obviously, this traditional "females [of our species] should stay at home and look pretty" nonsense is modern culture.. but still a projection of the same prototypical behaviors associated with the females of our species: *maternity* and *fertility* . Look at Greek Mythology: women are [according to you reductively] portrayed as being maternal and fertile. And furthermore valuable _because_ of relative maternal and fertile qualities. The population bust is a very complicated issue. And i doubt it confers to happiness in either sex. Japan is now one of the loneliest countries on Earth. The natives attribute this phenomenon to many things: poor economic conditions, modern technology, sedentary lifestyles, etc. ua-cam.com/video/rqxzSknktRI/v-deo.html Women having higher paying jobs, yes. It makes us more "liberated" but corrupts normal mating behaviors. If an Elephant Seal [which is polygynous, like humans] suddenly saw females of the species accruing resources the populations would literally fail - just like in our species. Generally speaking, among mammals, females put most energy expenditure into conception and rearing of young. And they have a lot more to lose -- so females are more selective. During the state of vulnerability [pregnancy], without advanced civilization, a female must find resources/protection. To reproduce, a female must therefore find a mate to facilitate reproduction. This explains a lot of female behavior [maternity and fertility]... More selective, indirect sexual competition, more empathetic, etc. Under normal circumstances, among mammals, without sapient economics, the males must provide [resources] for the females of the species to nourish [raise] the young. So, to me it is an obvious subversion of what has historically made females of our species valuable [maternity and fertility] to start loading females with unlimited resources.. and obviously this is going to result in some strange [if non-existent] mating dynamics.
I think horror games give women control over the fear they experience while playing/watching, kinda like women who enjoy dark romance, it's a way to experience something without the threat. I also agree with the relating, having empathy bit of the video. And I think the snuggle theory has some merit, as an autistic person, I feel it's easier to have some kind of physical touch over a horror movie/game, it comes more naturally than in other settings. Oh, and even with male protagonists, for me the appeal is that often the men are vulnerable. It's not something you often see, and it feels kinda like a privilege to witness and/or follow them in their journey.
I also see the similarities between horror videogames and dark romance (and specific sub-types of paranormal romance). I'm not a horror fan myself, or a dark romance fan, but I do see a lot of similarities when people describe why they find them interesting. The ability to go through the lowest of the lowest experiences and allowing yourself to feel every emotion that brings you because of the promise that things will be (generally) fine at the end, and the catharsis that those emotional extremes can give you. The controlled environment of a horror videogame or reading/writing dark romance makes it 'safe' to experience these things in your own way and on your own time.
I don’t play horror games often but I do like your idea about seeing men vulnerable. It’s interesting when male protagonists are made to be as helpless as female characters often are in horror games, films, or shows. When they have to rely on their wits or ability to flee instead of being able to physically overpower enemies or use weapons. To me it’s kinda cathartic (and realistic) to see them presented just as vulnerable as female characters and that they’re not invincible just because of their gender. Hope that some sense.
For me, I think a lot of it is catharsis. I struggle with my mental health a lot like you mentioned in the video, and horror games, and horror media more broadly, provide a place that can give release for the anxiety and everything. Like, getting scared by a monster or whatever just helps me let go of some of the stuff I'm holding onto throughout the rest of day. As for which games I like, I played Iron Lung this year and had a good time with it, Silent Hill 3 I also played and enjoyed. Signalis, Anatomy, and Detention are on my list to play next and I'm really excited.
Silent Hill 3 is soooo damn good. amazing graphics for its time.. and a strong and likeable main female character too and creepy monsters. IMO the best SH game. If you like silent hill3 you may want to read/play Saya no uta.. very creepy
Your anecdote about your two sisters really resonated with me. I grew up with two sisters as well, albeit they're the same age as me, and I too remember a time when I was younger and dismissive of their interests. Sometimes, I was even defensive about them showing interest in things that I myself enjoyed, I guess out of some irrational fear that they were "encroaching on my boyhood." Luckily, I grew out of this around the time we were entering high school, and I have a good relationship with them to this day, but I regret to think there were bonding moments we never had because of this childish mindset.
I'm a male but I was one of the only males in my high school book club and have read plenty of YA novels. My anecdotal experience is that a lot of female protagonist stories (or perhaps female written stores) had a lot more horror and horror adjacent elements, compared to the more action focus of many male protagonists. It was a stark enough difference that I still think about it to this day, and was why I made sure to watch this video as soon as it appeared on my feed.
I think this is why I find it complicated to really describe if I like 'horror' or not. So many experiences female protagonists go through aren't that distinct from horror story elements (esp in YA). Often the only differentiation between more 'standard' female protagonist stories and 'horror' female protagonist stories is one of gradations not of specific story elements. I have read plenty of YA stories that are not classified as 'horror' (just general fantasy, scifi or other genre) and aren't even written to be horror, that are filled with horror tropes (body horror is a common one) but in a slightly less 'grotesque' way than you'd find in stories that are explicitly horror. I don't like a lot of what's generally seen as 'horror' stories or games, but then, a lot of stories and games that I love have horror-adjacent elements in them. Which makes everything much more complicated.
I dont think I really agree with the thesis of this video (that horror games appeal to women because they give them agency to fight back against frightening things) because the hallmark of a great horror game is that it causes the player to feel overwhelmed and powerless. Games like Little Nightmares and Limbo, which I know have a healthy female fanbase, for example, have you take the form of a protagonist who is physically small and who is almost entirely helpless to the many dangers of their world. Maybe there is some validity to the idea that putting a player up against overwhelming odds, letting them struggle, and then giving them the satisfaction of a victory well earned is a part of the appeal, but then, that same metric applies to any high difficulty game, like Dark Souls, and I don't think that that experience necessarily has a higher appeal for women. Whereas the theories proposed in the video are that horror affirms gender for women, I propose the exact opposite. Because female gender roles are so restrictive, women and girls have a higher level of interest in the taboo. Danger, the occult, true crime, and the like appeal to women because they allow women to explore ugly aspects of life without engaging in strictly masculine experiences and power fantasies. Young girls adore rituals and curses and trying to summon Bloody Mary because it is outside of acceptable behavior for girls, but it is still distinctly feminine. Horror media fascination may be an extension of that same phenomenon.
Definitely interesting. I posited that there's a distinct difference between the violence of horror and the violence of action which migh also attract women. Additionally, your comment made it occur to me it could also be for a similar reason dark souls appeals to many men? As an emotional experience that is pretty much shared among each other it allows for a deep form of kinship with others? Cuz fear hits all the same. Well, usually. And in that way, the same way dark souls' shared difficulty makes overcoming obstacles a bonding experience with 10s of thousands of people, so is overcoming a frightening experience, since women tend to care less about engaging the mechanics of a game, so easy mode or normal mode makes no difference, scares hit all the same. Might explain why other well-written games have a solid female fanbase without pandering to women, too.
@chukyuniqul The idea of these experiences connecting us is really interesting. It's almost like the snuggle theory of the video but less misogynistic lol. Wanting to be frightened or to overcome something specifically because you know others have experienced the same thing and you want to share that with them. I definitely think there's something there, it's why a new game gets extra hyped when lots of people are playing together. Horror being accessible to less mechanics focused gamers is also interesting, though I'm not sure if I'd subscribe to it immediately without seeing some kind of data. It does seem to pan out with visual novels and games like that being so popular with women, although similar genres like walking sims seem to be breaking into the market as a whole. I'd be really interested in more studies on gaming demographics.
@@chukyuniqulignoring how the people and players react and interact with the souls games, a reason the games are so frequently hitting for men is the core conflict that is consistently brought up in almost every souls game, the warmth and enchanting feel of kinship, success, understanding and being able to grab and hold and identity for yourself, no matter how quick, brief or knowingly ignorant it may be opposed to an often eternal, concluding and revealing answer of and to fate despite how cold, alone and alienating its path was,is and will continue to be
i find Little Mightmare, Limbo, Inside comforting precisely because the characters, while being powerless, are not overwhelmed. they act and solve their problem while being at the very edge. it is the most realistic depiction of agency. Wonder Woman or Captain America deny me this agency. women there have nothing in common with me. at the same time, in Little Nightmare's Six i can recognize myself, including the darkest aspects.
I'm happy to have a guy youtuber who is actually smart and also uses his platform to advocate for voices that often go ignored, without trying to take away from the voices of those people.
As an AFAB person who struggled with their gender identity for the larger part of their adolescence AND also had to deal with the "nobody takes young girls seriously" problem, the horror as therapy theory surprisingly hits quite close to home. Games like Silent Hill and Outlast made me feel seen, in a way, capturing the sensation of being unwillingly trapped within a nightmare with no obvious way out, nobody to help, and a bajillion horrors going after you, but with the difference that I could actually help the MCs fight back. I suppose all this also ties with my undying love for body horror - I've always found how people's bodies can easily be made to betray them equals parts fascinating and absolutely tragic (I wonder why lol), and the real threat of it affecting the MCs as well has also made things like Resident Evil feel incredibly personal. I recently played Scorn and it really screwed me over for this exact reason.
I’m not a woman, but I did grow up as one. I think a big thing that drew me to the particular genre of RPG Maker horror games (such as OFF, Yume Nikki and its fangames, Mogeko Castle, Witch’s House, etc) were partially driven by my engagement with the environment and characters. The beauty of Yume Nikki’s atmosphere and powerful symbolism was hugely resonant with me and many others because of how goddamn ACCURATE certain scenes were to me. It was the strongest feeling of “oh god, I have BEEN this girl!” I have ever felt: the moment when Madotsuki comes across a picnic that she cannot participate in no matter what she tries. There is no way to join in, no entry into the picnic area-she’s trapped behind waist high vines and has no options to get the other girls’ attention. Similar moments of extreme empathy to the player character came to me in OFF as well-the moment when a monster is blocking a subway train line, and the only way to progress is to attack it while it cries for help. The whole story is strongly inspired by the concept of eugenics and why someone would determine a child’s life as not worth living. The game put me in the shoes of a man who I believed was doing the best thing he could think of for a world that was gravely ill. By killing it. TL;DR indie horror games are great at putting me in the shoes of strangers and helping me understand the world around me, both the innocent victim and the twisted villain.
ahh yes. The toriningen party. I remember one time I was playing and left for a few minutes to get water or whatever idk but, in case you don't know, if you leave Madou on her own for a while she sits down and then falls asleep. That's what's supposed to be but when I saw her like that I thought she was crying and I thought I found an easter egg but like most things on YN it was only my interpretation. I thought she was crying. I remember that I'd avoid the toriningen party because it was a bit painful to see. She's also found inside a closet in that same position and no one will think she's sleeping.
i have to say i was expecting a dumb video but omg seriously it was like breathing fresh air watching without worrying about SURPRISE MISOGINY , thank you for all the caring and research on the way you manage this video
11:45 - OK that was REALLY GOOD WRITING right there, because I was absolutely making that face, legit JUST like that cat! You've got something special here, Moon!
As a woman, I like that in the context of a horror video game, all of my character's anxieties are acknowledged and treated as deathly serious and worth fixing. Everyone else on the survivor team in Dead By Daylight is extremely aware that the Killer is out there and poses the greatest threat to us all. Nobody says that the reason I'm afraid of the Killer is just because I'm hormonal or emotional or just don't understand the logic of what should really scare me in life. Instead, we take it as a given that our experiences as victims matter, and immediately work together to resolve the situation. I would *kill* to see such behavior in real life as a response to anxieties.
Man, i wish i had enough brain power to put into words how thankful i am for these videos you make, because i feel like they have been a big part of my mental growth and generally learning how to deal with my feelings, and specially of people other than myself, and that is something that i feel if it wasn't for you I'd still be the same edgy teenager who thinks the peak of comedy is judging of others for who they are. This video's lesson is specially important to me because i too have 2 sisters but funnily enough im the youngest one, and the thing about my relationship with that is that this mentality of mine has obviously leaked into our relationship. And that sadly led to my sisters talking less of things they like to me, to trying to talk about only things i like and I've even noticed they're less and less interested about said things they like aswell. So this is something that really hits home for me because i too feel victim of that judgementalist mentality where whenever i try to talk with someone about something i like, if it is considered feminine, I'll be made fun of, and that sadly led me to stop liking a lot of things i really liked, and that is one of the worst feelings ever. Im Lucky that as a whole our age gap isn't that big and we aren't even that old yet, so I'll try to do my best to fix that before its too late. I guess waking up to the my little pony theme isn't that bad
Fantastic video! You're absolutely right about how the world treats the thoughts and interests of girls. As a trans man, it was actually pretty jarring when men treated me differently when I started passing. The amount of respect and acknowledgement I received immediately made me so angry thinking how different things can be.
That's the one thing that, as an AFAB woman, makes me sad for trans women...knowing that by achieving their dream, they're also stepping into a world of misogyny and not being taken seriously - and that's on top of trans misogyny!
I'm a trans girl and I have written a few horror-ish things about girls trying to overcome horrible situations (ranging from "there is someone with a sword in this abandoned laboratory" to "by becoming myself i have inadvertently angered several people out to murder me") and I honestly had no idea why I found myself gravitating to writing this sort of stories but... the second half of this video definitely made me think that... yeah, what you've stated may be the case.
What an amazing video and great thumbnail! Must say this video connects really well with one made by Vv Chadain, "Femininity IS Horror". Also, playing Fran Bow as a girl was one of the best things I could've made. It led me to discover a whole genre of other "relaxing"/atmospheric games. I felt at peace.
Having watched this after finding your channel through the “Girls Games” video, I can at least anecdotally confirm that the Nancy Drew -> Don’t Starve -> Bioshock -> Bloodborne -> The Forest -> Slay the Princess (to name a few) pipeline is REAL 😂 I am also an avid ttrpg player and designer professionally, and I always find myself gravitating towards horror themes, tropes, and mechanics in my tabletop games as well. I like getting to craft the kind of fear I want to experience because that’s fun and I don’t have to worry about actual danger to my person. The adrenaline response feels great in that context, and I like going through video games with this absolutely stubborn refusal to back down in the face of the fear. My next twitch streaming project is to play through every resident evil game ever for the first time. I know how legendary they are, and I really can’t wait.
It's so wild, and kind of alienating to be a woman who is the exact opposite of every...single...comment - at least in this comment section, it seems I'm the lone woman who sort of scoffed at all of this. I don't enjoy horror media, but I do enjoy psychological thrillers. I love analyzing morality, and sometimes that comes with a dose of horror...but in general, I avoid scary movies, and you couldn't pay me to make me play Five Nights, Resident Evil, etc. Absolutely none of it appeals to me - I don't see in these games what, apparently, 95% of other women do. It's...shocking?
I think you hit the nail on the head with regards to taking the differences into account, and how that leads to your conclusion. Going to NakeyJakey’s “Horror In Video Games” video, one key aspect that differs is how we interact with the mediums. In a movie, you are just left with whatever actions the characters take, while video games make you pick up the controller and now YOU are tasked with facing the big bad head-on, and it’s only in your success (usually) that instills progress. One of my games study courses pointed out that many games are made to give its player power, near absolute. Whether it be fighting, town building, etc. you have mechanics that are made to allow control over environment or outcomes. Control being something many of us sadly don’t have in our daily lives. But for horror games, rather than power for power’s sake- it’s giving back power in the absence of it. You have a direct threat/anxiety you must overcome.
Yeah, it also feels relevant that one of the most pervasive meta-tropes of horror is "the audience yelling at the protagonist to not do the thing" as that's very much all the agency we have available as an audience. It's not as if games don't also force you to do stupid things via cutscenes or progress locks, but we're much less impelled to yell at the character because we're controlling the character 90% of the time.
I think the "empathy" answer is true to an extent, but is usually looked at from only one side. Women are socialised to be more empathetic and nurturing (let's not get into bioessentialism here, I think it's an acquired trait, because to be a woman, you HAVE to be able to put yourself into a lot of people's shoes, simply to survive day to day. YMMV). So the impulse to care for someone is easier for women. I think part of why we like horror games is the same reason we tend to like social (or social simulation, see: The Sims) games, just in a different way. It's easy for us to care deeply about whether a protagonist or an NPC will survive. This in itself is a source of emotional investment and thereby entertainment, which is an appealing thing for men, but to a lesser extent. To put it differently - I think it's about empathy, but not necessarily "the story empathises with our reality", and more "we're easily capable of empathising with the characters in peril". Which is why the gender of the protagonist does not necessarily play a huge role.
didnt feel addressed until the line "or engage with horror game video content such as twitch streams"😭 i absolutely have watched so so many playthroughs of horror games (especially as a teen !!) and still do , i mainly stick to just watching one persons content so i just thought i ended up watching all those videos bc its what that one person played , but maybe there is more to it ? personally horror games are too scary/stressful for me to play them myself but i do like seeing someone else successfully manage through these games
I’m not exactly a woman but I was raised as a girl. I love horror but only in what I can describe as a communal way. I love tearing into what makes horror work with a video essay or with my friends. I adore watching friends or streamers play games like Resident Evil or Silent Hill. Resident Evil is even a hyper fixation of mine. I love listening to spooky podcasts and then discussing them with others. I cannot stand doing these things on my own. I get so anxious and has previously accidentally made myself so nervous I got sick while trying to listen to a scary audio drama. I’ve always been a scaredy cat kid (I was terrified of the cat in Cinderella for an unknown reason as a toddler) and I think that I found ways to deal with that anxiety though community. For me horror is a way to interact with people while vulnerable I think.
As a fellow scaredy cat, I was afraid of looking up at the sky as a kid not bc I thought it would fall on me but since space was so vast and seemed like it never ended. Very easily disturbed lol I also prefer indirectly consuming horror stuff with let's plays and video essays! I cover the screen or flip my phone over if it's too scary, I find the petscop mascot creepy so those videos are audio only experiences
I've loved horror in every medium I could get my hands on it since I was a child. Everything I'd ever known growing up was fraught with uncertainty, anxiety, a fear for my well being. I experienced so much that validated these feelings that my first horror experience, Child's Play at 6, allowed me channel my fears into something impossible to experience then turn it off. I made myself boil it down and reflect on why this was a turning point for me. I've come up with I was able to remove the threat by single action. It was exhilarating to be in control like that. Close the book, turn off the device. When video games cane into my life I was able to even destroy/resolve/pacify the evil. Furthering that, if something happened to me I could just start over. I could get better without consequence except time. My appreciation has grown as I've aged and my views changed, but I still find myself applying that sense of accomplished control in my video game experiences. Ramble over! Amazing video, and just in general such great work you are putting together! ❤️
as a girl, i feel like giving my own input as to why i love horror games: they inherently allow for more taboo topics to be explored, and since women are more susceptible to be victims of taboo topics (like violence, sexual abuse, bodyshaming, etc), horror media in general just resonates well with women. i think this is close to the empathy theory. for the binding of isaac, women are susceptible to religious trauma due to the average christian society being so misogynistic and demonising, sexualising and shaming girls from a young age. the game explores religious trauma and criticises the bad apples of christianity in a cathartic way that lets women who suffer from religious trauma know theyre not alone. as for dont starve, i might be biased since i love the burtonesque style so much, but also the game is very stressful, with much pain and suffering... just like real life, and it provides girls with a possibility - difficult one, but a possibility nevertheless - to overcome the challenges of life and prove that you do have the skill and right to be as good, successful, and be as comfortable as any man. also, webber is just the cutest! for resident evil, i dont know, i just like cool worldbuilding and leon kennedy's charisma, but there still is the general "woman life suffering, horror game suffering, horror game resonate with woman" appeal to it. i also wanna mention the specific aspect that women tend to struggle a lot with their bodies, considering how strict and unrealistic beauty standards are for women, how harshly they are enforced, how sexualised women's bodies are, and how shamed women are for the non-sexualised aspects of their bodies (which i believe is even worse for trans women, but i dont know for sure). as such, body horror has an appeal to women, as it visually represents the horror of having a body as a woman, of being powerless over your own appearance to a point where it's sickening. it resonates hard with me, at least. overall, i just believe games with suffering and taboo topics hit closer to home for people who are at an inherently higher risk of suffering than others. speaking of, are there any studies made on how popular horror is with other marginalised groups? disabled people? lgbtq+ people? i do think this is different for every woman though! these are just my experience, and i dont believe any of the theories in this video nor mine are universal.
wow I haven't considered Women's apparent love for gothic, supernatural and religious parody media as a relation to real life religion It's perhaps hard to see it as an outsider but what you say it's true specially on christian/catholic religions women are often seen as more sacred than men and thus giving them more responsibility and in consequence more reasons for anxiety while at the same time those religions tend to sexualize women on a weird way that doesn't apply to men, christian paintings can often portrait naked women while men rarely if ever appear naked not to mention feminine chastity is also more of a frequent topic, none of that is that crazy on itself but if we add up everything it can be understandable that some girls can develop religious trauma specially if exposed to such topics at young ages.
All of that applies to men too, that's the reason why most horror games are developed by men as well, including the psychological ones... Religious bigots shame men's sexuality as well, and men tend to face violence from a younger age than women, to the point where we live less on average than women because we are murdered far more often, specially in public places, and sexual abuse and bodyshaming it's taboo for men because we are not expected to talk about it, we always swallow up the traumatic sexual experiences we had or how bad we feel about our bodies because opening up about such things makes us "weak," so we just accept it and try to push forward with life regardless. This is also why horror games appeal a lot to introverted men like myself, to the point where it becomes a safe space, since it allows us to explore what we know lingers deep in the backs of our mind, but we always tried to avoid reflecting upon.
I am amazed with the level of maturity and sensitivity you exhibit when talking about these subjects. This is still a hard subject for many people (particularly gamers) to talk about without immediately seething or being defensive. Also you nailed it with the thumbnail.
The vocal fry thing blows me away. I only recently heard the term and how some people are weirdly vocal about how they don't like it. But my whole life I have loved it. I find it very attractive to have more texture, for lack of a better word, in ones speech. I'm glad I learned the word so I can describe it, but annoyed that others are being actively hateful towards it. Vocal fries are very distinctive and I love the individuality of it. I hope people don't start hiding it in the future.
@@nirvanaheights SiIvaGunner is a channel that uploads high quality rips of video game music; these rips are frequently used as the primary source of background music for Moon Channel's videos.
I'm trans and OCD, I don't know if my opinion is desired here but; for me horror has very little to do with overcoming, or confronting anything at all. This world is not accommodating, kind, or considerate to the things I feel and experience. I am dismissed at every turn, whether its about my choice in presentation or struggles with mental health, every interaction feels like a war to prove myself. Horror feels quite literally like the only place where i can be comfortable and earnest, where i can see other people like me deal with the things i have to go through. Horror makes me feel like I'm not alone. It feels like home, warm and safe and all.
Well, you're 100% valid in who you are, and it's no one else's business who you are, how you present, nor how you live your life! You're as important as anyone else, and the people who waste their lives trying to hate you - someone they liekely don't know AT ALL - can waste their lives, while you achieve what makes you feel happy in your own skin. Life is short - enjoy it while you've got it, and don't let anyone else put a damper on that for you. It's not their life - it's yours.
thank you for making this video! as a female watcher i've always enjoyed the way you tackle feminist topics with grace, tact, and rationality, and i do feel that you make a special effort to not dismiss womens' (or anyone's) pov in your videos. i think people often don't acknowledge that the historical underrepresenation of women in media has both forced women to be more adept at empathizing with male characters and profited off the tendency of women to be more readily empathetic than men. before there was any movement to intentionally increase women's representation in mainstream media, if women wanted to feel represented they would often have to empathize with male characters; on the other hand, instances were few and far between where men would be in some way forced to empathize with a female protagonist. Men probably wouldn't have even been expected to engage with media with a female protagonist (exceptions obv exist) because people might assume that would mean the story was made for women. in this way i don't think it's strange at all that women would still find their fears and anxieties validated by media that have male protagonists (eg silent hill 2). in fact i think it is very strange that anyone would think "oh that's a game with a male protagonist who has male problems, why would women see themselves in that?" and anyone who interprets the media they consume in such a strict and literal fashion may be missing out on a lot of what they could be learning from these stories. i do say all this as a cis hetero woman who has a picture of bill gates drinking boba tea as my pfp. in a similar vein i've always liked how in these videos you use a picture of maya fey to represent yourself. i've assumed that you just chose her because you like the character and think she's cool. i think it speaks a lot to your empathy toward women that you feel comfortable using a female-presenting sprite to voice your genuine emotions and opinions and it's something i appreciate about this channel. i just don't see a lot of men doing that for some reason, and i do suspect that reason has something to do with less men being willing to put themselves in women's shoes in that way. personally, i think my enjoyment of horror stories doesn't have to do with my anxieties related specifically to the female experience, but more to the human experience. i am drawn to horror-themed things that creep me out because they make me confront my own mortality and status as a fleshy, fragile little creature scurrying across the earth's surface. that's just a general human anxiety that everyone confronts in their own ways, but i'm suggesting that women are more likely to confront that existential anxiety through horror games and men have other ways of dissecting their existential anxiety, possibly because women more readily empathize with the characters in the horror games so it is uniquely effective for women to this end. of course there are horror games that do explicitly deal with women's issues (eg american mcgee's alice) and i really like the way they engage with those non-existential anxieties as well. i also just like the dopamine from scaring myself. these opinions are, of course, mine alone and people are free to choose any aspects of these games to enjoy for themselves; this comment is all just one woman's experience. thanks again for the wonderful video! looking forward to the next one!
If Moon Channel has 100,000 fans, I am one of them. If Moon Channel has 100 fans, I am one of them. If Moon Channel has a single fan, it's me. If Moon Channel has no fans on Earth, it's because I have died and reincarnated as a moon. If the world is against Moon Channel, I am against the world.
super hot take pre-watch as one of the ladies: existing as a woman is very horror coded in the not-war/explodey kinda way so yeah post-watch edit: the therapy factor definitely plays a role, I would also add (in the broader context of horror anything) that 1) the excessive, dramatic, destructive horror plotlines, filled with "*ugly* passions" as they are, often provide the kind of cathartic scenarios that would be most taboo to actually explore for Women Living In A Society, 2) horror often deals with morally gray casts of characters (MCs included) and unanswerable mysteries surrounding the origins of evil that better align with the complexity of the emotional landscape and dynamics women (and I'd argue other marginalised/oppressed/otherised groups particularly of the gender & sexuality category) have to navigate on a daily basis, to different degrees and at varying levels of awareness per individual ofc btw godspeed to ms kpoppie sister, not to be an irredeemable stan but I hope she likes SHINee ☆ p.s. there are even more reasons to explore when it comes to horror-themed, thriller/mystery-focused romance or coming of age stories! femininity is fundamentally monstrous as a deviation from the assumed default i.e. masculine state, but monsters want to live free and be loved too~ p.p.s. FUCK MY TINY SCREEN I COULDN'T SEE THE WIKI SCREENSHOT, HELLO AQUA BLOODED COMRADE I HOPE YOU HAVE ALL THE NICE DAYS AND YOU SEE SHINEE LIVE SOON IF YOU SO WISH 💎
for me, a trans woman, I find horror games to often be too cruel and heavy on the gore, tho I still like watching streams of them sometimes. I think i've just kinda been traumatized by some bad relationships and depressive episodes so nowdays i feel less wanting to experience it again, and i've always felt pretty empathetic and so seeing people suffer makes me feel disgusting. on the case of true crime, I like them a lot when the case is solved at least somewhat, but the unsolved cases just make me feel so uncomfortable, especially in the cases where women are the victims. But I also realize that growing up, I was one of those guys who mocked girls for their interests, I think in large part because I felt they had the "freedom" of liking things they liked, while I was forced to be a boy and like boy things, while the girls would also tell they don't want to do things with me because I was a boy. I've also even after coming out and presenting as a woman had only a few bad experiences in real life, and constantly have insecurity and fear of cis women finding me gross or creepy, so i guess my insecurities are kinda the opposite of how a lot of girls and women feel
I have a love/hate relationship with horror. I don't watch many films in the genre because my brain likes to get stuck in panic-mode because my phobia is all over the place in those films, and jump cuts don't give me time to prepare for someone to suddenly get stabbed/impaled/poked-by-sharp-things. I also don't particularly like feeling scared or anxious, mostly because I get overwhelmed quickly. That said, animated horror is generally easier for me to handle, so films like Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust and the like are things I enjoy. I don't always play the horror games I'm interested in like Resident Evil because I'm not very good under pressure, but the narrative and atmosphere always pull me in, so I do a lot of watching let's play videos. I'm fascinated by the horror elements in games/books/shows like Devil May Cry, Hell's Paradise, and Hellsing, and there's a reason why Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda game. Rumiko Takahashi handles horror in some of my favorite ways (and is also a woman very much drawn by the genre - highly recommend reading about how she got into the manga industry). I think it's mostly that I enjoy watching characters have to struggle through something that is fantastical enough that it's just outside of my ability to relate too closely to be horrified rather than entertained, but also because some of those elements of horror are just artistically more interesting to me than anything else. There's definitely an element of empathy that I can agree with, but I can't say I've ever thought about how I feel as a mostly woman-identifing female until watching this video, and I'm currently in the "I just think they're neat" category. What I'm definitely NOT feeling is a want to be cuddled while indulging in the genre (though I'm also aro-ace, which might contribute to that, lol).
I feel totally the same with basically every point you made! I also prefer fantastical or dramatic media over slice of life for I think similar escapism reasons. Though I actually don't mind slice of life or realism in video games, I guess the game aspect detachs it from my reality/lived experience enough compared to a movie or tv show.
Not that long ago I've stumbled on a statement about TTRPGs that while in the West D&D is the most popular (with a huge lead) game system (it is best suited and primarily used for epic fantasy adventures) and the majority of players are male (something like 60/40 ratio), in Japan the most popular TTRPG is Call of Cthulhu (a game system that is primarily used for horror/mystery games) and the majority of the playerbase is female. Sadly I have no idea if this statement is true in that second half, but I hope someone can find statistics on that
That's very, very interesting: thank you for sharing, Mary! I have a vague idea for a video on women and Baldur's Gate 3 that I've been slowly formulating, and some insight into the Japanese TTRPG community might be exactly the glue I need for that idea. Maybe the next time I am in Japan, I will ask around about Call of Cthulhu TTRPG and see if I can learn anything fun for the video!
Call of Cthulhu seems generally more popular in East Asia in general. I think it has something to do with DnD's game systems not being particularly engaging when the country's major exposure to the game type started with video games, and like... video games are just more fun. Less scheduling issues too LOL You can't really engage with CoC as well in a video game context, meanwhile.
It may also be telling that one of the biggest franchises in TTRPGs is World/Chronicles of Darkness which is very much about horror. And while it's got plenty of edgelords, it's also where I've seen a ton of women creators and players in what feels like a far greater proportion than D&D gets. (The balance for D&D has shifted significantly in the last several years post-Critical Role, so I'm not sure my feeling still applies today.)
Of all the DnD players I've met/played iwth/seen online...the overwhelming majority are female! What an odd statistic - I'd even venture to say that it's probably more 50/50 these days with the crescendo-ing popularity of TTRPGs.
I like intelligent supernatural in all its forms, because it always *seems* like the protagonist is going crazy and mostly people treat them as crazy - but they are not. There is an explanation and even further: a way to think your way out of the situation. If you just research and force your brain into action hard enough, then you can solve the problem, you can be vindicated by your environment and ultimately, you can win against the evil. As someone who grew up running from one doctor to the next, insisting that something was wrong with my health and being told to stop being a dramatic teenager - that is powerful. As someone who kept sliding and once she finally got doctors to listen, as it was a bit late for puberty, got told, it was in my head and there is nothing you can do - that is powerful. As someone who get to the point of being bed bound, until a specialist finally went through options other than pills, only to spend years working on getting better and undoing the negligence of generations of male doctors, who declared you a dramatic female girl - that is powerful. Obviously my experience is extreme, but not being taken seriously when you know something is wrong, is very common. Being declared crazy or told it is in your head. Being told it is your hormones and you are just making a fuss. Also, being reliant on these very people for help, while being endlessly gaslit by them like a bizarre toxic relationship, can be debilitating - because you simply don’t have the medical knowledge needed, to tackle the situation yourself, thus the dependency. The notion that actually with some research in an ancient demon book, some determined interviewing of oddly behaved people on an island and a lot of puzzling together of pieces, you can control your destiny and defeat what is gnawing at your mind, body and soul, is incredibly empowering. TL;DR: I believe the “woman are just crazy and don’t know themselves as well as male authority figures do - especially medical” aspect also has a play in it.
Funny enough, my partner is very much into horror games. Well, not playing them, she mostly watches let's plays of creators she likes. Or when I do my best to get through one :p
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the production quality of your channel is insane. It's amazing that you can present all of this frighteningly well-researched information in such a neutral, unbiased way, and make your videos entertaining to boot. And that's not to mention your actions towards charity, too. This platform, and the world, needs more people like you. Thanks, Moony.
Pleasantly surprised at the civility, kindness, and self-reflection in the comments. Usually, when women are brought up for analytical purposes on UA-cam, there's a half and half of the people sharing their experiences and people insulting women and then acting surprised or upset when they're called misogynistic. There's definitely some of the latter, but they're getting drowned out by the former. That either shows signs of good moderation or effective speaking and audience curation.
One thing I always love about your documentaries is how the things you say usually start with things applicable to mediums or concepts that don't have much to do with video games, but then you slowly shift the focus into something about video games.
7:32 - the giggle I got out of seeing KH2 mer-boy Sora as the example footage for "Are you there god it's me Margaret" (Then it made sense when "The Little Mermaid" appeared next) I tell YOU, that was a highlight of my day!
So as a trans woman, I know my experience differs from that of cis women, but I do think your therapy idea has some merit. I’ve found games (and other media) that deal with body horror specifically are useful to help process the body horror experience that was my going through male puberty, for example.
My little sisters love horror games and so i buy them for them and then watch as they play. I dont really like horror games in any way (I'm a crier and screamer lol) but i love spending time with my siblings. I had the same realization as you in my late teens, that i had been scoffing at their interests for no reason and i try my best nowadays to encourage them! Great video ❤
I often call video games "a laboratory for the emotions," because they can bring up very strong emotions in a very safe context, where you can always press pause or turn off the screen. I used that to overcome some anger issues by playing rage games and then practicing reining in my emotions. The combination of being an active participant with a desire to succeed along with the low stakes and safety can make for some powerful therapy for sure.
This was a very interesting watch. My wife is a big time horror lover, I look forward to seeing what she has to say about the topic. Her favourite games are Binding of Isaac, Dead by Daylight, and Don't Starve so I think she got caught in 4k here.
As a woman and a fan of video games (personally love shooters but i’ve also played a lot of horror games) i have to thank you for doing your research and not simply feeling satisfied with a couple quick answers from old studies, and instead diving deep yourself to understand! Right in the beginning of the video I wondered why it was that my sister, my mum, my aunts and cousins were all so much into horror movies, and I did come to the same thought you did. As a woman that is also why I like horror games, because I get to face the monsters and even though I am scared I feel rewarded by managing to get out of the scary situations and feel a certain rush when i manage to confront that fear :)
This is super interesting for me, as a woman that doesn't click at all with horror film or books, while greatly enjoying horror games. The interactivity is definitely a huge part of it, and I have anxiety as well as a lot of trauma that feels relevant to the genre (i.e. holding a door shut while a danger to me tries to get in, making a run for it when the "monster" seems agitated, etc). I've never thought a lot about it, but I do think that horror represents a kind of catharsis for me, where I'm capable of getting away, or of beating the monster. I also think it helps me process certain feelings, by experiencing that intense fear in a safe way. I don't often think of this in terms of being a woman, but I will say that it's very unlikely that I would have faced the trauma I did as a boy rather than a girl. Super interesting stuff as always!
What a wonderfully comforting video :) As a woman that loves horror games but can't sit through a single horror movie, I think the sense of control as well as the greater distance from reality/less total immersion is what allows me to be able to participate with horror video games as a medium. Watching a horror movie is too immersive for me, too close to experiencing something in real life or a lucid dream (which I hate and have lots of), but I love horror themes, motifs, and imagery - they always have really interesting storylines that you wouldn't find anywhere else!
I’m a girl and just wanted to say I feel so safe here. Thank you for validating women’s experiences and interests especially as a man. but I did want to confirm, I love horror!! and horror games. perhaps a bit niche but I was hoping you’d mention OMORI, a psychological horror game (which is my absolute favorite). id love to hear your thoughts on that. and if you’ve never played it….. please trust me and go in blind- you don’t want to ruin anything for yourself. ❤
Notification gang Edit for after watching: I think your line of thinking has merit and could really benefit from dedicated research. I think it stinks that the field of psychology is underfunded in the US so it's not likely that it'll get picked up easily. Though, my opinion on the matter shouldn't count for nearly as much as like you I am a straight male living in the US. P.S. Don't change the thumbnail, it's perfect the way it is! ❤
As a woman who loves horror video games, I showed this video to my mom, who is a fan of horror movies and tv series, and who introduced me to horror at a young age. We both agree with every point you’ve discussed and I thank you for making such a thoughtful video! The thumbnail definitely caught my eye :)
the part about society's treatment of girls is so spot on. I grew up with two older brothers who looked down on ALL of my hobbies and it got to the point that I would reject anything "girly" or on trend for girls (like twilight, hannah montana etc) so I wouldnt experience the bullying and shame they inflicted on me. It made me feel like such an outsider not only in my family but among my female friends who were getting into makeup and fashion. It went on for years and caused a lot of damage to my mental health and caused a lot of insecurities and anxieties that wouldnt be around if my brothers just respected my interests. On that note, It felt comforting to me to hear how you regret the way you handled your sister's interests. I always wondered if men reflect on the ways they treat women's feelings so it was nice to see a man express his own regret to something that I experienced way too much of.
In my personal experience, I play horror video games for primary 2 reasons. I play single player horror games because they have compelling storytelling, dialogue, and gameplay/ I want to solve the mystery, kick butt, and help the cast. Or in multiplayer games without heavy plot, because it’s fun to feel an adrenaline rush and explore, craft, and survive together. I personally used to avoid horror games, but my older sister and bf love them, so I always got dragged along. At some point I grew from being physically frozen from fear and unable to react when things got scary to being able to be the one to jump in and save the day. I feel like it’s helped me a lot irl to not freeze up and instead to confront sources of fear and/or anxiety.
The appeal could also come from character design as well. In horror, the main characters tend to look more like regular people rather than the super idealized characters you'll see in the action genre. I think a major appeal is the ability to fight back against things we can't fight in real life like getting stalked and attacked by something.
That comentary about Phoenix not really suporting Maya and Pearl about their hobbies like BTS or Punk Rock really hit me even though i don't have sisters
As a disable women that deal with abuse from work, family, and creepy men at work and dealing with the reality that no one cares enough to hear me, and have others including family try to sweep any pain or uncomfortable situations I've gone through under the rug. Alot of us deal with constant pressures growing up. "I have to be this way to be considering a woman's worth anyones time." People get mad at me for not looking pretty for them, as if I only exist to please them. To be honest, it hurts, like a lot. I'm my own person, I don't give into social pressure to be anything other want me to be. But there's consequences of isolation, and I feel them a lot. Watching this video and hearing you talk about your siblings put a tear to my eye and really inspired me in a way where I feel kind of seen. I'm not sure if I'm the only one. But I appreciate this video, thank you.
Trans woman here. I've always delved into horror, even as a child. I think something that's worth noting further for this analysis is the popularity of vicarious horror enjoyment. That was how I often enjoyed it as a child, and many of the girls I work with watch markiplier like I did when I was their age. For me, I think horror offered a very unique kind of escapism. As a young girl a part of me knew something was wrong, and that the world was unfair. So seeing horror content that could be picked apart in hour and a half long youtube Fnaf Lore Explained videos really went a long way towards scratching that itch of wanting that feeling of wrongness explained. The same itch was scratched by creepypastas, and the SCP wiki, I think. Love the content as always Moon, and I am excited to see more.
I absolutely love the horror genre and when I saw your video about girl games this was funnily enough something I thought of. Horror media, has been a source of comfort for me for a long time and this video captures a lot of my feelings towards it. A few things I can add from my perspective would be that a lot of horror media I enjoy does not heavily feature topics I was told as a girl I *had* to care about just bc I am a woman. Love stories/triangles and petty drama (often pitting women against each other in some kind of contest), which were featured in a lot of YA media I interacted with as a teen, can still occur in horror, but they mostly take a backseat. These things aren't necessarily bad, but its frustrating to constantly be told they are all your existence comes down to. Additonally, a lot of horror movies feature a so-called final-girl which gave me a character to relate to, often in a way where they weren't always victims. On top of that, a lot of horror media lets me interact with it by letting me come up with theories and predictions about the plot/mysteries which I think is enjoyable. I am a sucker for lovecraftian horror and tbh just scary stuff in general, so I dont think my enjoyment is purely connected to my gender either. There are definitely exceptions to all of these, and they are just my personal experience, but I thought I'd share them.
Once again, Moonie is a gem. Hands down my favorite channel. As a trans gal, it was super difficult to engage with horror pre-transitioning. I didnt find the emotional distress to be cathertic, but rather, just amplified my already poor emotional state. However, now that im on hormones, ove bene able to handle, and genuinely enjoy, horror. Im still very antsy with the horror genre, but the idea of overcoming overwhelming odds despite extreme emotional distress resonates with me deeply. Anyways, thank you Moonie for being as empathetic as you are analytical!
I'm aroace and prefer to consume media alone. The snuggle theory ain't it. I deleted a bunch here about the empathetic theory, because I agree but it misses the point. Good horror is also escapist. It's just more authentic at the same time, because it's grounded in the fact that existence is awful. This is why I like the psychological or scifi stuff, but not gore or serial killer stories. We already have murder and blood at home. Go watch some exploitative true crime trash if you want that. I want to spend the next two hours in a world where cursed VHS tapes exist, or where there are interesting mysteries to solve such as where all the vanished celestial bodies went. There are enough kidnapped women IRL; it's not entertainment to pretend that one more exists.
As a fan of women and horror I see this as an absolute win
You're so real for that
what are your thoughts on pregnancy and childbirth?
@@mithos789 6/0, 7/10
based
They're one and the same and I'm the fan of neither
i particularly love the rpgmaker horror genre
"little girl grappling with analogues to rapidly slipping mental illness" is an extreme catharsis of a genre
rpg horror is my shit
Growing up, it particularly resonated with me as a young autistic girl. Young girl tries to navigate strange and confusing new world with (often deadly) puzzles that, at first glance, make absolutely no sense until you pick up on some sort of obscure clue? Yeah, that's basically the female autistic social experience.
the peak of rpgmaker horror is mario the music box imo, incredible game
@@dragonicbladex7574 thought you were joking before I remembered that it exists
the neurodivergent femme urge to escape a spooky location you’re stuck inside
I decided to go live with my hastily assembled placeholder thumbnail, just to see how it does. This video isn't sponsored, which means there's more leeway for this kind of silliness. Please enjoy my incredible MS Paint skills!
I think it's cute!
I clicked first and then saw that it’s a moon channel video second. I love it
It’s funny. Do it again next video.
The thumbnail made me giggle a bit. Didn’t expect to see anything like that today! 😂
It’s refreshing
The thumbnail is truly a high class work of art. They need to display this in museums amongst the works of Picasso and Leonardo Devinci. Philosophers and pretentious rich people will look at the piece with shock and awe.
I think it's cute how you always manage to somehow mention your sisters in basically every video that you make, hahaha
It's very clear how they are really important to you
I really appreciate the section talking about young woman's interests generally being dismissed more often and hearing your own changed opinion, it's nice seeing more people understand that shame or disdain will never actually change people, only make them hide themselves, and that compassion should more often be the default response. (I've rewrote this comment like three times so I hope it makes sense)
It does 😊
American idiot dismissed?! :O , ok that was a good example. Not that i like kpop ut teenager have a right to have cringe taken serious, any gender. I mean that lovingly, ther is no reason to dismiss teenage girls interest there.
Also i think its good to never thing to be too adult, its just part of life, who cares, but for teenager thats really important so, no reason to be dismissive of girls silly interests over everyone elses silly interests. A lot we like is silly, and that is fine. Everyone. life is too short to always be dead serious. and it can mean surprising lot so dismissing that is just a jerk move.
I was like this when I was younger. I regret thinking like this. Let people like what they want to like as long as its not bigoted stuff.
Do you feel disdain towards certain media because of the way it portrays women, especially in relation to men? Yes? Good, that's fair. But what's also fair is that you accept men have the exact same right in this regard, particularly towards pathetic men like Christian Grey who are glorified exclusively because of what they offer to a woman.
Mind you, I'm not arguing for disdain, I'm just arguing that sometimes it's justified while sometimes it's not. And you should either continue to shamelessly enjoy what you enjoy if you make a clear distinction from real life or, y'know, stop and take a look at yourself.
Other than that, just remember anita sarkeesian calling everything racist, homophobic and sexist about the video games we men enjoy and try to realize that at least critique of your likes is honest in its subjectivity (usually) whereas we have to deal with this subjectivity under the veil of objective morality. It's far easier to not lose face when telling someone to fuck off because they don't like what you do, but not as easy when you do the same but that person's planted this moral aspect of "enjoyment=evil".
Why am I bothesidesing? Hell if I know, I'm tired. I'm just tryina explain that while I do kinda agree with you on principle there's caveats where I might not necessarily and I'm tryina underline where I come from so you can have clear an understanding as I can give. In the end, I guess I don't really care if someone dislikes shit I do long as they're not being dicks about it, and I think everyone else should do the same.
@@chukyuniqulShe lives rent free up there huh
Horror consuming woman here. My personal reasons for loving horror media, be it games, television or film is because I get to control my anxieties and mock them in these situations. I'm a naturally anxious person and having lived in large cities (Los Angeles and Philadelphia) for many years I've been held at gunpoint multiple times and been assaulted by purse snatchers. As a 6'2" Amazon of a woman shows how fearless my attackers were. With horror media I get to be the fearless one and laugh in the face of horror through visual media. As such I love me a good Final Girl, especially films that glorify them like You're Next, the Fear Street trilogy and Ready or Not. To this day I idolize Sigourney Weaver because of her portrayal of Ellen Ripley.
Yes to Sigourney Weaver🙌the queen
Typical LA and Philly. If you can, I suggest moving somewhere safer.
You're not a real woman
I'm sorry you've had those difficulties in your life. I hope you stay safe.
Bring in the third world, become the third world. Maybe "diversity" isn't all it's cracked up to be.
The part about your sisters really got personal as it was an experience very similar to mine:
I have a younger sister of 7 years and we are both into japanese media, her even more than me, for the most part anime and music.
I wouldn't mock it since I knew what it felt like being the weird one in school that actually knew what the hand signs in Naruto meant, but I always wanted the anime she watched away from me. Then one day, after touching 20, I felt like my now ending adolescence and her beginning adolescence were shifting us apart, so I made a choice: we started watching anime together while having dinner with each deciding the next anime to watch and the first one I let her decide. We watch an idol anime called Uta no Prince Sama that, while a bit trashy, I really enjoyed (mostly because the music is SO GOOD). After that I engaged more with the things she loved: I watched all of Free with her, followed some Haikyuu, we showed some music to each other and I feel that initial thought of "wait, let me backtrack and be better" really helped us reconnect over the past few years.
tldr; fellas, your sister might be an annoying shit, but it's YOUR annoying shit, treasure her
god I'm kind of tearing up right now. my older brother always made it a point to mock me for liking anime as a kid- and I watched all of these! even knowing that people out there consciously protected their siblings from that kind of behavior makes me so happy- your sister is so lucky.
It's often said that there's no manual for life. While that may be true, I believe the phrase "Wait, let me backtrack and be better" is the closest we'll ever get. The real key to being a complete person in adolescence and adulthood isn't 9-5s, or sex, or expensive clothing. It's bettering yourself. Unfortunately, so many people miss this, and grow unchallenged into the awful people who populate the world in disturbingly large numbers. But those who are willing to challenge their own thoughts and behavior, and make themselves into the person they want to be, will come out better and more complete as people. You made the right choice deciding to be better, and I hope it's a choice you continue to make.
Wild to learn that your audience is 70% female! fantastic analysis as always.
as a social psychologist, I love that you mentioned the strengths and weaknesses of the psych theories that many other people (including my fellow academics) just uncritically except. I think it's important for the public to know that even when you're talking about sound and well-tested social and personality psych findings, the effect sizes / our ability to predict differences in people based on a psychological trait is usually quite small, often on the order of R-squared = 0.1, or about 10% variation explained
The graph shown in the video only represents the audience for one video about Girls’ games.
My life as a woman so far has been pretty shitty and horrfying. That's why I always made and still make horror art. My art professor used to say "I believe you are exploring your fears in a safe space, banishing them on paper - so to say". I also love playing horror games I think they have a similar effect. Allowing you to explore and live out your anxieties in a controlled enviroment.
On topic of girls interests being belittled; I got massivley bullied for being into pokemon as a girl. Esp by the boys who were into it as well, they hated the thought of a girl sharing their passion I suppose. It's different nowdays, its a lot more accepted for girls to be into gaming. But these mindsets still exist sadly.
Thank you for the video Moony.
do you post your art somewhere ?
@@anb1142 thank you for your interest, I'm really bad about keeping my art up to date with socials but I technicially have an account I could share with you.
Don't let others stop you from doing what you want, fact is you can't teach stupid and a lot of people are stupid a holes, also sorry about your negative experiences as a woman, the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side, we just have to be careful in this chaotic world.
As a semi-closeted bigender (Male and female) person who was born as a girl, I can absolutely relate to the being bullied for my interests part. I'm Gen Z, still a high schooler, yet sadly I can confirm that the mindset of girls being inferior gamers is still prevalent amongst young men, especially with the rise of anti-feminism and the growing popularity of "sigma" edgelord content on platforms like TikTok and UA-cam Shorts. My male classmates would literally run away from me if I wanted to talk about Final Fantasy or Tekken with them, and if they don't run away, they'd just straight up ignore me, or accuse me of being a bad gamer. I remember one time where they were talking about Blox Fruits (Roblox game), and I chimed in wanting to join their conversation, but then one of them laughed at me and said I was at level 1 (He's level 28). Even when I told him that I'm level 63, he still didn't believe me. My mom said that they probably run away since they want to hide the fact that they don't actually know a lot about the games they talked about (One of them deadass said Noctis was the main protagonist of Kingdom Hearts lmfao) while I had a lot of passion and knowledge about it so I could easily detect their BS. It is a shame that I won't be able to talk to my peere about the stuff I love, especially because I feel disconnected from the girls since all they talk about is k-pop and celebrities or whatever, but then again why would I ever become friends with an unironic Skibidi Toilet fan lol
@@melodi_bunniez Thank you for sharing your experience!
Highschool was tough for me as well but thankfully I found friends who shared my interests later on. I wish for you to be able to make good friends who don't belittle you!
I was able to make most of my gamer friends by attenting fg tournaments, but that is certainly not the only way to meet new people...
Stay strong and good luck out there
This is amazing ❤
As a girl who loves horror games and who also suffers from severe anxiety, I find there's something strangely comforting about playing horror games, because even though they make me anxious, they also allow me to confront what's causing that anxiety directly and in the Deep down, I know that if I fail I can just restart the game
In horror games I can defeat evil enemies even though I am much weaker than them. It's much more relatable and empowering than a power fantasy for me because it makes me feel like at least for a few hours being 3 times smaller than my enemy doesn't matter, I can defeat them anyway if I can just outsmart them...
Anyway man, great video ❤
I have anxiety and feel similarly!
Same, but it ended up attracting me to high fantasdy RPGs instead of horror games. Slaughtering zombies & liches in Neverwinter, vampires in Morrowind, even 2D games like Baulder's Gate & Diablo had the feels.
Fatal Frame is a good series to get into.
So true ❤.
As one of my female friend has said, "I'm going to beat the shit out of that ghost".
i mean thats the comfort of horror, dealing with that in a safe situation. Its very valid too. To express the complex horrors of life in an acessable way, dunno maybe why i like good drama too :D Not a woman, but i think thats, yeah , explore the horrors of existing in a sensible way is why horror is such a classic genre.
In my opinion, the reason why women prefer paranormal horror is because the things that make supernatural beings like ghosts scary are, in a sense, part of the feminine experience: being watched in a private space, being followed, etc. Are fears that for many women are a reality, and horror games give the player the opportunity to defend themselves against their attackers. So horror games can also be a power fantasy: a woman previously defenseless arms herself and fights against the monster, unlike in the real world where the best we can do is avoid situations that could put us at a greater risk and leave things to others (like the police) who could very easily dismiss our anxieties as exaggerating.
this is a great analysis actually. Nice
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I think this is the most likely reason!! Thanks for putting it into words
This is similar to a thought I had. In video games you always have the power to win
So that explained final girl trope in slasher movie.
It's also worth noting the unsurprising quirk of horror games: they have more female protagonists than any other game genre. Go ahead, take a think on it and you'd be shocked how much it makes sense in hindsight.
I think it's more a circular reasoning, because there is greater female audience, there is more female representation
I think it might be a bit more uncomfortable than that. Female protagonists in early horror existed for two basic reasons: to communicate that the protagonist is obviously too weak to defeat the threats in a way that will convince the target male audience, and to provide satisfaction from exploitation and pain of the virtual women (basically, virtual snuff movies). That women reclaimed it and found affirmation in it despite sexist reasons is empowering irony.
@@WizardHuntingWrightI think you would find no evidence to your second claim, and it honestly is a very disgusting thing to accuse developers of.
i think it's worth remembering that men also just like playing as female in characters in games and also often choose to create female characters/impersonate women online, so it's hard to say that the "lots of female protagonists in video games" phenomenon is catering specifically to women or specifically to men
@@AfutureVI agree, weird take by them. I agree with their first point, I thought for sure the second was going to be something like "can be sexualized/fetishized more" since the power fantasy self-insert angle isn't there.
I can’t exactly speak on behalf of other women, but as a female individual who enjoys horror, I find the atmosphere and creeping narratives to be very compelling. Horror as a genre can tackle very sensitive and nuanced topics via symbolisim. The true horror isn’t merely the bloodshed, but what the monster is representative of as a walking symbolic representation of the true horrors that exist in our daily life. It’s not merely the story being told, but the narrative hidden between the lines.
Which monster represents the physical manifestation of debt?
@@josephpurdy8390 I recall that the Chinese analog of the grim reaper is a tax collector coming for your soul. Something like that I'd imagine.
It's a canvas for projection. That does help explain some of the choices that other theories fail to explain well.
Women are not playing horror games for rich and nuanced symbolism. lol
@@josephpurdy8390 Hounds of Tindalos maybe?
When I was a child, my Uncle caught me diminishing the things my little cousin liked. He started doing it to me to prove a point-that what she likes is just as valid as what I like. I will always be thankful for that lesson. ❤
holy shit, it's so fucking wonderful to see someone talk about the way in which women's interests are dismissed. i don't blame people because it seems to be so weirdly strongly built into society (think of how people talk about twilight, romance novels, shipping/aspects of fandom people perceive as being more 'femme', typically things teenage girls enjoy), but things like male friends making digs at me for my hobbies and interests made me start covering up my interests or talking disparagingly about the hobbies/others with the same interests and trying to only display hobbies that people don't make fun of as much, so i didn't appear as a typical stupid girl or something. the same thing happened with so many of my female friends, we stopped chatting about our shared interests that were seen as dumb even when there weren't others there to mock it. it's awful how people get laughed at for enjoying something that is considered a cringy 'femme' interest.
it makes me really really happy to see someone who became aware of that phenomenon (again i don't blame people, it's almost societal to where you probably don't even notice it) and talk about it like this. i appreciate it so so much, it's so affirming to see
by the way the rest of the video is also absolutely fantastic, i've been absolutely rapt watching, i just felt particularly strongly about the femme hobbies part and had to ramble lol. horror is a massive massive interest of mine and i never considered the femme audience for it and the potential reasons for it, it's so eye-opening and soooo damn interesting.
i do play horror games a lot but in a sort of similar vein as someone who draws i have a particular interest in engaging with subject matter like psychological horror, trauma and body horror. i have debilitating anxiety (i manage it pretty well so i'm good lol) and i find it very cathartic to express themes like that in art, even if very indirect and not very literally. i guess i could compare it to the interactivity inherent in a game (though obviously there's more freedom lol)
thank you so so so so so so so much for your attention to the femme experience in general, your channel is easily in my top 5 favourites overall
On the hiding interests thing: straight guy in my 20s here, but that's me with anime and anime-adjacent stuff. I have friends who I met through sports that I would never talk about this stuff about due to a fear of being dismissed/mocked. Even if I doubt that would happen today, since it happened when I was young I still don't talk to them about it, even trying to subtly hide it.
Once I realised that on a conscious level, I have since made an effort to try and understand why someone is passionate about something even if I don't get it myself or it's completely outside my own interests. I think that sort of validation is really important, and that a lot of men not having personal experience with their interests being mocked (or only engaging in stuff that would be socially accepted) makes them not realize just how much it hurts.
“femme”? Well, it is synonymous with female. or is it like shorthand? I just never thought that one could replace female with femme with none the wiser, but I don’t get what underlying tones/messages/implications/subtleties, if any, this deliberate distinction is intending to convey. I really, sincerely, and filled with curiosity, want to know.
@@thomasnguyen4427 they might be trying to be more inclusive to feminine but not female genders
@thomasnguyen4427 I'm pretty sure the term "femme" refers to anyone who was socialized/currently identifys with being "feminine", typically (but not always) outwardly showing/feeling "girly" or "womenly" attributes If that makes sense.
It has more to deal with societal ideas on gender and less to do with biological facts of being "male" or "female".
My definition might be incomplete or incorrect but I hope this helps!
Eh, it's a thing that goes both ways. People pick on each other for their interests all the time. I and friends of mine have gotten some guff, quite often from women, about our particularly more nerdy interests. Especially considering I love really old games and music so much, even with co-workers I can get some snide comments. Sometimes it's fair, many times it's not. But it's not something that you should let dictate your interests or how you display them. In the end, that's your decision to make and no one can make you hide those things about yourself. In the end it's no big deal.
As a woman I feel like the reason that horror is so popular among women and girls is at least partially due to that fact that the genre is not gendered. The things that happen in horror movies/games/books can and do happen to anyone, since media is inspired from the real world. As opposed to media that is more popular with men such as FPS games, sports, action, etc where women and girls basically don’t even exist because they were not allowed to participate in actual society. There is no way to exclude women from the horrors of real life lol. Representation is very important when it comes to gaining an audience and women have been a part of the horror genre since it’s inception. If you are a woman who is interested in horror you’re not very likely to be told or be made to feel that you don’t belong or are not allowed to partake. This very heavily ties in with the part of your video where you touched on women being shamed for their interests. I really resonate with that and appreciate your self awareness of how you used to treat your sisters. Anyways I loved this video and the other one you did about video games made for girls! Looking forward to what you cook up next!
I personally feel that what you said is partially true, as male I’m attracted to fps/shooter type games but have never actually been in a situation even close to that in real life. But maybe you’re more correct than I think with the fact that any action movies I’ve seen growing would primarily have male leads. But who knows, I don’t I’m not an expert.
@@blakemcmillan5680I'm also a male and I think it's just that men/boys look up to these people or smth like that, men/boys relate to those shooters due to what OP alluded to. This topic is very deep and I don't want to explore it since I'm very stupid. But that's what I believe it is.
@@accountrandomnumber182yeah that makes a lot of sense actually, and don’t worry even if you were to go into it I still wouldn’t get since I too am stupid
@@blakemcmillan5680 I am a woman that loves horror but has never been chased by a murderer lol. What i’m saying isn’t that we DO these things but that we gravitate to where we are accepted to be by the societal norm. In America men were the only ones who could legally handle guns in military combat for more than 200 years compared to women who were banned until 2013. That is going to have a lasting effect and men in armed combat is going to be the VAST majority and the norm because of this, therefore boys and men are socially conditioned to be more interested in guns/fps. Ya feel me?
I believe you are overthinking this a little
Something that occured to me while watching this video was the relationship the horror aesthetic has to the concept of physical beauty. So many women love "spooky" aesthetics even if they're not particularly frightening such as Don't Starve. It's something I'm curious about looking more into but I feel like it has something to do with the appreciation of the grotesque and "ugly" that horror provides, a sort of escapism from the constant pressure to always be beautiful as a woman.
Either way, thanks for another amazing video. I always love to see more stuff making people think about gender.
i dont really like horror games, but man i love the gothic horror vibes and eldritch cosmic horror themes and story lines, bloodborne is an easy example, its not a horror game but it has all the cool sexy horror aesthetics and themes i love
Why are half of the points given just universally applicable regardless of gender?
I'm not a woman but I do love horror games in the way you mentioned. Living with all these anxieties, it's great to have horror games where it feels like I'm fighting back and having agency over my fears.
I'm actually not a *huge* fan of horror myself (as a woman), but my very favorite game is one dripping with cosmic horror and themes of femininity: Bloodborne. I enjoyed your commentary on this one and am only slightly disappointed my favorite game didn't get a shoutout. You strike me as a loving older brother and that's very endearing.
Bloodborne is just so feminine. It is indescribable 🐙
awww yis bloodborne! so good
I actually find it funny, that when you read through comments here and elsewhere, people seem to think girls/women don't or didn't like the Souls series of games (including Bloodborne). But uh, as a guy, I kind of feel like there was a bit of gatekeeping. Every girl gamer I know who has given one of them a try, even though they thought it wouldn't be for them, ended up loving it. I think Zelda games are kind of similar. They are very human games. And I think in many ways Bloodborne and Dark Souls play similarly to horror games. Everything is dangerous. The souls games aren't even always "about challenge and difficulty" (i.e. male ideas of competition or masochism) per se, as some people assert, at least not like a round of Dance Dance Revolution or Guitar Hero on expert are. They allow for player expression in a foreboding and unforgiving world full of metaphor, mystery, nuance, and memories. You can fight back against the hollowing or the cosmic forces, in skillful or creative ways. Dark Souls is a really emotional game that ends with a very symbolic fight accompanied by a moving piano piece. There are other people struggling in these dreamland nowherelands that you can try and help save. And death itself can be both faced, embraced, conquered, and accepted. My favourite playthroughs of the souls series to watch were done by a woman (and I feel like I should mention I'm gay to clarify I wasn't watching a thirst stream lol).
I was disappointed Bloodborne and Dark Souls didn't get a little chapter too lol. Bloodborne gives me goosebumps. Someone in a comment above or in the video itself mentioned that "male authors typically describe menstruation as being a source of magical power, but female authors typically describe it like body horror". The way Bloodborne explores those kinds of themes was really cool and even eye-opening. The way Bloodborne takes ideas like virgin birth, or placental and menstrual blood being magical, and retells them from a horrific perspective is really truly unique amongst stories and incredibly haunting. It's really messed up when you piece together what is happening in Bloodborne. I will never forget my first time exploring the locked-off side of Iosefka's clinic... I felt empathy for the women in Bloodborne from the game itself, if that makes sense. Arianna's story was tragic and felt gross to piece together, but I'm glad they included it too.
Bloodborne and seikiro I feel are like almost the gender leaning takes on souls games
Based off both people’s reactions to them, I myself take them all as a far more cohesive narrative and theme as opposed to many who say BB and seikiro are more separate compared to souls
But take all the feminine themes, ideas or things more typically known or understood in that light in bloodborne
And then look and see the many more masculine actions,symbols and marks throughout seikiro, like duty, protection, work, effort, honor, and in my opinion the biggest sign is the upheaval of the other older,stronger and wiser teachers,soldiers and masters throughout
People as a concept play a far bigger role in seikiro than in any of the souls games, and that seems to be something striking about it
I want to play it so bad
I personally go with the "being alive is a horrifying experience" theory for horror, because that's what it's been for me. My personal experience (having tons of medical issues since birth, along with being an autistic woman and having multiple anxiety disorders, and, of course, living in general) has left me with lots of anxiety that I try and explore through horror. It allows me a safe way, for me, to process my feelings and basically give me exposure to things that trigger my anxiety safely, as you can quit a video game at anytime, or pause watching a video about horror and put if off for another day if it gets to be too much.Compared to real life, where you can't escape at all and are forced to endure the pain, I much prefer the games and videos.
I think it'd also be interesting to see how people's individual experiences with society and the world affect how they see horror, as since most of my trauma was from childhood and the way I was treated as a child with a disability, I like games like Little Nightmares, or Among the Sleep, who have the horror situated in what happens to the child protags as they live in a hostile world that is against them. Anyways, interesting video! Sorry for the paragraphs- Also love the thumbnail lol-
Women are taught as children to have a lot of fear of the world around them, and that they are particularly seen as targets even from a young age. But at the same time they are constantly belittled and invalidated for having these fears. I think for some, getting a fright out of horror is cathartic because you experience the fear you have every day, but it’s validated instead of dismissed since the entire point of the horror is to scare. At least that’s how I feel
Sadly, I think this is in large part to the absence of fathers in the the home. We are seeing now multi-generational effects compounding this, as those who grew up without this are now parents that don't have a grid to know they are missing an aspect of raising stable mature adults from their children.
And that includes many American households where fathers are providing. *America seems to have lost the relational side of fatherhood as a value.* As work hours and expectations increase, fathers become less and less present in the home - even when they are there. If you are perpetually overworked and under-slept, how can you really give anyone the fully engaged you experience?
I agree. I've had the "dress modest don't attract creepy guy he's only being mean because he likes you" talk many times starting very young. I suffer from extreme anxiety as an adult, but I've always loved loved horror. It almost feels like exposure therapy? Exploring my fears in a "safe" way, especially in games and art. Most of my own art is horror based and very therapeutic to make.
@@MaintDocsoh ffs, someone having a single mother is not that traumatic. I grew up with an abusive mother and neglectful father, both hurt me more than anyone else ever has. but according to this logic, at least my useless father was always there. I guess! not protecting me from being beaten, but just living with us, spewing conspiracy theories about minorities and going into debt by giving money to obvious scams. the presence of a parent isn't inherently positive.
As a straight man that has experienced feelings of fear and anxiety, I thought I wouldn't relate to this bc I never watch horror movies. But I did realize my favorite show ever is the first season of Legion, that is a sci-fi psychological horror about a young man that is anxious, fearful and in need of help that is getting ignored and told his fears are all in his head and just hallucinations. I realized I have a strong empathetic connection to David Haller, the protagonist of Legion, that is similar to what women might have watching a horror movie.
Yeah, as a cismale who hasn't ever been interested in the horror genre, I came out of thei video wondering if I should try something out in that space to see if it works for me. Who knows, maybe I will.
@@Duiker36 In my experience, if you've never been interested in horror, something like a thriller or sci-fi thriller should be more up your alley. For a game recomendation, I would say The Evil Within series. I didn't play it, but I watched some of 2 and found the horror vibe perfect.
I find it so adorable you visualize yourself as Phoenix and your sisters as Maya and Fey. like it's an alternate universe where Phoenix makes UA-cam videos about video games haha.
im a male and grew up with 2 brothers in a man dominant environment where we do brotherly activities with manly expectations, yet i made the mistake of not being a supportive brother in their passions and interests even with my position as a middle son.
i recently had a younger sister, and i will not make the same mistake, thank you for standing up for your mistakes and most importantly teaching me of my own, if my sister plays horror games or has interests of all sorts ill be always supportive to her this time.
I won't lie, I shed a couple tears when you talked about your sisters. I'm sure your sisters love you lots.
And this video was insightful, I used to be so into horror and true crime as a kid, but now I don't necessarily go to that kind of content anymore, and I wasn't sure what changed until now. Back then I was physically sick but doctors would tell me I'm fine and that I was just attention seeking like "other girls my age". ugh, yeah, I can definitely tell you I felt like my fears were valid through horror and true crime shows. But after almost dying because a doctor called security to escort me out of the ER (he left the practice after that), people started to believe me and I grew apart from horror and true crime in favor of more calm and colorful stuff, documentaries too. I just don't need a movie or show to help feel validated anymore and now use those mediums to feel happy and educated.
Honestly, I just wanted to say thank you, Moonie.
It's my pleasure, Sugar Free! Thank you for supporting the channel! It truly means a lot.
Hey how can I support your channel also? I would love to
@@nicolasquijano5471 The only ways I know are the patreon (which he has in the description of his video) and the youtube membership. Not sure if there's anything else at the moment.
I can’t play horror games because, frankly, my adrenaline response is usually “freeze” (and that usually makes for bad video game play) and I’m prone to nightmares. But I watch a TON of video essays about horror games and I love them, love them, love them. I have incredible respect for the stories they convey and I am SO glad you took a video to postulate why that might be. Amazing work as always, deserves more engagement.
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate you as a creator. The first video of yours I watched was "why doesn't the industry make good girls' games?". I remember clicking on that video, hearing your voice and thinking 'okay you have two minutes to prove to me this isn't going to be a misogynistic sh*tshow', because videos made by men about the interests of women are so often exactly that. (for the reasons you touched on in this video, I think) There are few men on youtube I truly trust to treat the interests, concerns, and experiences of women with nuance and respect, and you are one of them. Great video as always.
I'm deeply honored to be included on that list of trustworthy men on youtube, commander. I hope that my content can continue to merit that vote of confidence!
*hears a male voice and assumes what follows will be misogyny*
Ironic.
Wow a rare sighting of a reverse simping 😂
@@bruciekibbutz2947lmao I know right?!
@@bruciekibbutz2947to be fair, there are enough videos like that out there to justify being cynical, at least initially; remember that everyone's experiences are different and can therefore lead to people developing different reactive expectations
I think your theory holds a lot of merits but I wanted to add something else which is linked to gender roles in a way: though it's much better nowadays than it has been in the past, we still see that men and women are expected to go down certain paths in preparation for what society considers "success" in life. For example, men are expected to work hard, earn, etc, for a family while women are expected to take on a nurturing and submissive role for a family (both are expected to have families). Because of this, I think more introspective and introverted activities might not only appeal to women more but would be more compatible with the lifestyle that many women end up living as a result of these pressures. Horror is a genre that can act as a catalyst for curiosity and fascination; it's a genre where strange and abstract things can happen constantly, this could also be why we see that "cathartic" and action-packed genres are more popular among men as we know that the consequence of gender roles on men is one of neglected frustration (oftentimes coupled with perceived feelings of impotence due to the continuing financial demands of society) It could also explain why it's specifically introverted men who seem to most often share that same passion for suspenseful and paranormal horror as opposed to "cathartic" or action-packed horror; one form of horror is adequate for those who enjoy engaging on a level that is internal and cerebral while the other form of horror is adequate for those who desire feelings of empowerment and freedom from built-up personal frustration. There are men and women in both of these groups but socially constructed and enforced gender roles make it more likely to find more men/women in one group over the other.
That being said, I've been living with older folks for a long time and have been exposed to how restrictive gender roles have been on them, as people from a particular time so my perspective on the way men and women live in today's society could very well be immensely fucked-up, especially since I'm a weird autistic queer and I don't know what the fuck I'm doing in society lmao
Excellent as always Moony! Your channel is a gem!
Gender roles?
You mean sex roles... a woman is more nurturing per her biology, a man is more aggressive per his.
@@Retrofire-47 Here we can observe the true ultimate horror... brainlets in the UA-cam comments section... *shudders in fear*
@@SwizzleMix don't leave me in anticipation... why not offer a riposte?
I'm a man and I'm not aggressive. I like adventure games and cooking for people. I enjoy sci-fi movies but don't mind a well-written rom-com.
If woman are so nurturing per their biology, why do so many of them not want children? Why do some countries experience a birth rate decline when they empower women?
The problem with your blanket assertion is that it takes just one example to disprove it. As Moony said in his video, men and women aren't monoliths. We're people with different identities, values and experiences.
@@rottenavocado7647 You are predisposed to certain behaviors because of your biology. How would a single anomaly refute my statement?
Would you say that bikes are a reliable form of transportation? i would. Maybe i purchase one that is an unreliable pos. Would i say that bikes are therefore not a reliable way to get across town?
Anthropological history is just one man's rule usurped by another's. i don't recall many wars being started by women...
Obviously, this traditional "females [of our species] should stay at home and look pretty" nonsense is modern culture.. but still a projection of the same prototypical behaviors associated with the females of our species: *maternity* and *fertility* .
Look at Greek Mythology: women are [according to you reductively] portrayed as being maternal and fertile. And furthermore valuable _because_ of relative maternal and fertile qualities.
The population bust is a very complicated issue. And i doubt it confers to happiness in either sex. Japan is now one of the loneliest countries on Earth. The natives attribute this phenomenon to many things: poor economic conditions, modern technology, sedentary lifestyles, etc.
ua-cam.com/video/rqxzSknktRI/v-deo.html
Women having higher paying jobs, yes. It makes us more "liberated" but corrupts normal mating behaviors. If an Elephant Seal [which is polygynous, like humans] suddenly saw females of the species accruing resources the populations would literally fail - just like in our species.
Generally speaking, among mammals, females put most energy expenditure into conception and rearing of young. And they have a lot more to lose -- so females are more selective. During the state of vulnerability [pregnancy], without advanced civilization, a female must find resources/protection.
To reproduce, a female must therefore find a mate to facilitate reproduction.
This explains a lot of female behavior [maternity and fertility]... More selective, indirect sexual competition, more empathetic, etc. Under normal circumstances, among mammals, without sapient economics, the males must provide [resources] for the females of the species to nourish [raise] the young.
So, to me it is an obvious subversion of what has historically made females of our species valuable [maternity and fertility] to start loading females with unlimited resources.. and obviously this is going to result in some strange [if non-existent] mating dynamics.
I think horror games give women control over the fear they experience while playing/watching, kinda like women who enjoy dark romance, it's a way to experience something without the threat. I also agree with the relating, having empathy bit of the video. And I think the snuggle theory has some merit, as an autistic person, I feel it's easier to have some kind of physical touch over a horror movie/game, it comes more naturally than in other settings.
Oh, and even with male protagonists, for me the appeal is that often the men are vulnerable. It's not something you often see, and it feels kinda like a privilege to witness and/or follow them in their journey.
I also see the similarities between horror videogames and dark romance (and specific sub-types of paranormal romance). I'm not a horror fan myself, or a dark romance fan, but I do see a lot of similarities when people describe why they find them interesting. The ability to go through the lowest of the lowest experiences and allowing yourself to feel every emotion that brings you because of the promise that things will be (generally) fine at the end, and the catharsis that those emotional extremes can give you. The controlled environment of a horror videogame or reading/writing dark romance makes it 'safe' to experience these things in your own way and on your own time.
I don’t play horror games often but I do like your idea about seeing men vulnerable. It’s interesting when male protagonists are made to be as helpless as female characters often are in horror games, films, or shows. When they have to rely on their wits or ability to flee instead of being able to physically overpower enemies or use weapons. To me it’s kinda cathartic (and realistic) to see them presented just as vulnerable as female characters and that they’re not invincible just because of their gender. Hope that some sense.
Just learn more positive ways to cope. You’re just psychologically making it worse on yourself by trying to prove you’re better than someone.
For me, I think a lot of it is catharsis. I struggle with my mental health a lot like you mentioned in the video, and horror games, and horror media more broadly, provide a place that can give release for the anxiety and everything.
Like, getting scared by a monster or whatever just helps me let go of some of the stuff I'm holding onto throughout the rest of day.
As for which games I like, I played Iron Lung this year and had a good time with it, Silent Hill 3 I also played and enjoyed. Signalis, Anatomy, and Detention are on my list to play next and I'm really excited.
Silent Hill 3 is soooo damn good.
amazing graphics for its time.. and a strong and likeable main female character too and creepy monsters. IMO the best SH game.
If you like silent hill3 you may want to read/play Saya no uta.. very creepy
@@heyjeySigma Good news the creator of SH is making a horror action game called Slitterhead.
Your anecdote about your two sisters really resonated with me. I grew up with two sisters as well, albeit they're the same age as me, and I too remember a time when I was younger and dismissive of their interests. Sometimes, I was even defensive about them showing interest in things that I myself enjoyed, I guess out of some irrational fear that they were "encroaching on my boyhood." Luckily, I grew out of this around the time we were entering high school, and I have a good relationship with them to this day, but I regret to think there were bonding moments we never had because of this childish mindset.
"i'd absolutely love to hear your thoughts. they always matter to me" i'm not crying you're crying
youre a full time lawyer and pumping these bangers out at this rate? absolute king
I'm a male but I was one of the only males in my high school book club and have read plenty of YA novels. My anecdotal experience is that a lot of female protagonist stories (or perhaps female written stores) had a lot more horror and horror adjacent elements, compared to the more action focus of many male protagonists.
It was a stark enough difference that I still think about it to this day, and was why I made sure to watch this video as soon as it appeared on my feed.
I think this is why I find it complicated to really describe if I like 'horror' or not. So many experiences female protagonists go through aren't that distinct from horror story elements (esp in YA). Often the only differentiation between more 'standard' female protagonist stories and 'horror' female protagonist stories is one of gradations not of specific story elements. I have read plenty of YA stories that are not classified as 'horror' (just general fantasy, scifi or other genre) and aren't even written to be horror, that are filled with horror tropes (body horror is a common one) but in a slightly less 'grotesque' way than you'd find in stories that are explicitly horror.
I don't like a lot of what's generally seen as 'horror' stories or games, but then, a lot of stories and games that I love have horror-adjacent elements in them. Which makes everything much more complicated.
I dont think I really agree with the thesis of this video (that horror games appeal to women because they give them agency to fight back against frightening things) because the hallmark of a great horror game is that it causes the player to feel overwhelmed and powerless.
Games like Little Nightmares and Limbo, which I know have a healthy female fanbase, for example, have you take the form of a protagonist who is physically small and who is almost entirely helpless to the many dangers of their world.
Maybe there is some validity to the idea that putting a player up against overwhelming odds, letting them struggle, and then giving them the satisfaction of a victory well earned is a part of the appeal, but then, that same metric applies to any high difficulty game, like Dark Souls, and I don't think that that experience necessarily has a higher appeal for women.
Whereas the theories proposed in the video are that horror affirms gender for women, I propose the exact opposite. Because female gender roles are so restrictive, women and girls have a higher level of interest in the taboo. Danger, the occult, true crime, and the like appeal to women because they allow women to explore ugly aspects of life without engaging in strictly masculine experiences and power fantasies.
Young girls adore rituals and curses and trying to summon Bloody Mary because it is outside of acceptable behavior for girls, but it is still distinctly feminine. Horror media fascination may be an extension of that same phenomenon.
I agree. Enjoying taboo stuff is enjoyable and cathartic when people expect so much from you.
Definitely interesting. I posited that there's a distinct difference between the violence of horror and the violence of action which migh also attract women. Additionally, your comment made it occur to me it could also be for a similar reason dark souls appeals to many men? As an emotional experience that is pretty much shared among each other it allows for a deep form of kinship with others? Cuz fear hits all the same. Well, usually. And in that way, the same way dark souls' shared difficulty makes overcoming obstacles a bonding experience with 10s of thousands of people, so is overcoming a frightening experience, since women tend to care less about engaging the mechanics of a game, so easy mode or normal mode makes no difference, scares hit all the same. Might explain why other well-written games have a solid female fanbase without pandering to women, too.
@chukyuniqul The idea of these experiences connecting us is really interesting. It's almost like the snuggle theory of the video but less misogynistic lol. Wanting to be frightened or to overcome something specifically because you know others have experienced the same thing and you want to share that with them. I definitely think there's something there, it's why a new game gets extra hyped when lots of people are playing together.
Horror being accessible to less mechanics focused gamers is also interesting, though I'm not sure if I'd subscribe to it immediately without seeing some kind of data. It does seem to pan out with visual novels and games like that being so popular with women, although similar genres like walking sims seem to be breaking into the market as a whole. I'd be really interested in more studies on gaming demographics.
@@chukyuniqulignoring how the people and players react and interact with the souls games, a reason the games are so frequently hitting for men is the core conflict that is consistently brought up in almost every souls game, the warmth and enchanting feel of kinship, success, understanding and being able to grab and hold and identity for yourself, no matter how quick, brief or knowingly ignorant it may be
opposed to an often eternal, concluding and revealing answer of and to fate despite how cold, alone and alienating its path was,is and will continue to be
i find Little Mightmare, Limbo, Inside comforting precisely because the characters, while being powerless, are not overwhelmed. they act and solve their problem while being at the very edge. it is the most realistic depiction of agency.
Wonder Woman or Captain America deny me this agency. women there have nothing in common with me. at the same time, in Little Nightmare's Six i can recognize myself, including the darkest aspects.
I'm happy to have a guy youtuber who is actually smart and also uses his platform to advocate for voices that often go ignored, without trying to take away from the voices of those people.
As an AFAB person who struggled with their gender identity for the larger part of their adolescence AND also had to deal with the "nobody takes young girls seriously" problem, the horror as therapy theory surprisingly hits quite close to home. Games like Silent Hill and Outlast made me feel seen, in a way, capturing the sensation of being unwillingly trapped within a nightmare with no obvious way out, nobody to help, and a bajillion horrors going after you, but with the difference that I could actually help the MCs fight back.
I suppose all this also ties with my undying love for body horror - I've always found how people's bodies can easily be made to betray them equals parts fascinating and absolutely tragic (I wonder why lol), and the real threat of it affecting the MCs as well has also made things like Resident Evil feel incredibly personal. I recently played Scorn and it really screwed me over for this exact reason.
I’m not a woman, but I did grow up as one. I think a big thing that drew me to the particular genre of RPG Maker horror games (such as OFF, Yume Nikki and its fangames, Mogeko Castle, Witch’s House, etc) were partially driven by my engagement with the environment and characters. The beauty of Yume Nikki’s atmosphere and powerful symbolism was hugely resonant with me and many others because of how goddamn ACCURATE certain scenes were to me. It was the strongest feeling of “oh god, I have BEEN this girl!” I have ever felt: the moment when Madotsuki comes across a picnic that she cannot participate in no matter what she tries. There is no way to join in, no entry into the picnic area-she’s trapped behind waist high vines and has no options to get the other girls’ attention. Similar moments of extreme empathy to the player character came to me in OFF as well-the moment when a monster is blocking a subway train line, and the only way to progress is to attack it while it cries for help. The whole story is strongly inspired by the concept of eugenics and why someone would determine a child’s life as not worth living. The game put me in the shoes of a man who I believed was doing the best thing he could think of for a world that was gravely ill. By killing it.
TL;DR indie horror games are great at putting me in the shoes of strangers and helping me understand the world around me, both the innocent victim and the twisted villain.
I love Off but haven't played Yume Nikki yet.
It's been years since I've seen someone else talk about OFF! It's such a good game, i was obsessed with it when i was a 13 year old girl-
ahh yes. The toriningen party.
I remember one time I was playing and left for a few minutes to get water or whatever idk but, in case you don't know, if you leave Madou on her own for a while she sits down and then falls asleep.
That's what's supposed to be but when I saw her like that I thought she was crying and I thought I found an easter egg but like most things on YN it was only my interpretation. I thought she was crying. I remember that I'd avoid the toriningen party because it was a bit painful to see.
She's also found inside a closet in that same position and no one will think she's sleeping.
i have to say i was expecting a dumb video but omg seriously it was like breathing fresh air watching without worrying about SURPRISE MISOGINY , thank you for all the caring and research on the way you manage this video
11:45 - OK that was REALLY GOOD WRITING right there, because I was absolutely making that face, legit JUST like that cat! You've got something special here, Moon!
As a woman, I like that in the context of a horror video game, all of my character's anxieties are acknowledged and treated as deathly serious and worth fixing.
Everyone else on the survivor team in Dead By Daylight is extremely aware that the Killer is out there and poses the greatest threat to us all. Nobody says that the reason I'm afraid of the Killer is just because I'm hormonal or emotional or just don't understand the logic of what should really scare me in life. Instead, we take it as a given that our experiences as victims matter, and immediately work together to resolve the situation. I would *kill* to see such behavior in real life as a response to anxieties.
Man, i wish i had enough brain power to put into words how thankful i am for these videos you make, because i feel like they have been a big part of my mental growth and generally learning how to deal with my feelings, and specially of people other than myself, and that is something that i feel if it wasn't for you I'd still be the same edgy teenager who thinks the peak of comedy is judging of others for who they are. This video's lesson is specially important to me because i too have 2 sisters but funnily enough im the youngest one, and the thing about my relationship with that is that this mentality of mine has obviously leaked into our relationship. And that sadly led to my sisters talking less of things they like to me, to trying to talk about only things i like and I've even noticed they're less and less interested about said things they like aswell. So this is something that really hits home for me because i too feel victim of that judgementalist mentality where whenever i try to talk with someone about something i like, if it is considered feminine, I'll be made fun of, and that sadly led me to stop liking a lot of things i really liked, and that is one of the worst feelings ever. Im Lucky that as a whole our age gap isn't that big and we aren't even that old yet, so I'll try to do my best to fix that before its too late. I guess waking up to the my little pony theme isn't that bad
Fantastic video! You're absolutely right about how the world treats the thoughts and interests of girls. As a trans man, it was actually pretty jarring when men treated me differently when I started passing. The amount of respect and acknowledgement I received immediately made me so angry thinking how different things can be.
That's the one thing that, as an AFAB woman, makes me sad for trans women...knowing that by achieving their dream, they're also stepping into a world of misogyny and not being taken seriously - and that's on top of trans misogyny!
I'm a trans girl and I have written a few horror-ish things about girls trying to overcome horrible situations (ranging from "there is someone with a sword in this abandoned laboratory" to "by becoming myself i have inadvertently angered several people out to murder me") and I honestly had no idea why I found myself gravitating to writing this sort of stories but... the second half of this video definitely made me think that... yeah, what you've stated may be the case.
What an amazing video and great thumbnail!
Must say this video connects really well with one made by Vv Chadain, "Femininity IS Horror". Also, playing Fran Bow as a girl was one of the best things I could've made. It led me to discover a whole genre of other "relaxing"/atmospheric games. I felt at peace.
Having watched this after finding your channel through the “Girls Games” video, I can at least anecdotally confirm that the Nancy Drew -> Don’t Starve -> Bioshock -> Bloodborne -> The Forest -> Slay the Princess (to name a few) pipeline is REAL 😂 I am also an avid ttrpg player and designer professionally, and I always find myself gravitating towards horror themes, tropes, and mechanics in my tabletop games as well. I like getting to craft the kind of fear I want to experience because that’s fun and I don’t have to worry about actual danger to my person. The adrenaline response feels great in that context, and I like going through video games with this absolutely stubborn refusal to back down in the face of the fear.
My next twitch streaming project is to play through every resident evil game ever for the first time. I know how legendary they are, and I really can’t wait.
It's so wild, and kind of alienating to be a woman who is the exact opposite of every...single...comment - at least in this comment section, it seems I'm the lone woman who sort of scoffed at all of this. I don't enjoy horror media, but I do enjoy psychological thrillers. I love analyzing morality, and sometimes that comes with a dose of horror...but in general, I avoid scary movies, and you couldn't pay me to make me play Five Nights, Resident Evil, etc. Absolutely none of it appeals to me - I don't see in these games what, apparently, 95% of other women do. It's...shocking?
I think you hit the nail on the head with regards to taking the differences into account, and how that leads to your conclusion. Going to NakeyJakey’s “Horror In Video Games” video, one key aspect that differs is how we interact with the mediums. In a movie, you are just left with whatever actions the characters take, while video games make you pick up the controller and now YOU are tasked with facing the big bad head-on, and it’s only in your success (usually) that instills progress.
One of my games study courses pointed out that many games are made to give its player power, near absolute. Whether it be fighting, town building, etc. you have mechanics that are made to allow control over environment or outcomes. Control being something many of us sadly don’t have in our daily lives. But for horror games, rather than power for power’s sake- it’s giving back power in the absence of it. You have a direct threat/anxiety you must overcome.
Yeah, it also feels relevant that one of the most pervasive meta-tropes of horror is "the audience yelling at the protagonist to not do the thing" as that's very much all the agency we have available as an audience. It's not as if games don't also force you to do stupid things via cutscenes or progress locks, but we're much less impelled to yell at the character because we're controlling the character 90% of the time.
I think the "empathy" answer is true to an extent, but is usually looked at from only one side.
Women are socialised to be more empathetic and nurturing (let's not get into bioessentialism here, I think it's an acquired trait, because to be a woman, you HAVE to be able to put yourself into a lot of people's shoes, simply to survive day to day. YMMV). So the impulse to care for someone is easier for women.
I think part of why we like horror games is the same reason we tend to like social (or social simulation, see: The Sims) games, just in a different way. It's easy for us to care deeply about whether a protagonist or an NPC will survive. This in itself is a source of emotional investment and thereby entertainment, which is an appealing thing for men, but to a lesser extent.
To put it differently - I think it's about empathy, but not necessarily "the story empathises with our reality", and more "we're easily capable of empathising with the characters in peril". Which is why the gender of the protagonist does not necessarily play a huge role.
didnt feel addressed until the line "or engage with horror game video content such as twitch streams"😭 i absolutely have watched so so many playthroughs of horror games (especially as a teen !!) and still do , i mainly stick to just watching one persons content so i just thought i ended up watching all those videos bc its what that one person played , but maybe there is more to it ? personally horror games are too scary/stressful for me to play them myself but i do like seeing someone else successfully manage through these games
I’m not exactly a woman but I was raised as a girl. I love horror but only in what I can describe as a communal way. I love tearing into what makes horror work with a video essay or with my friends. I adore watching friends or streamers play games like Resident Evil or Silent Hill. Resident Evil is even a hyper fixation of mine. I love listening to spooky podcasts and then discussing them with others. I cannot stand doing these things on my own. I get so anxious and has previously accidentally made myself so nervous I got sick while trying to listen to a scary audio drama. I’ve always been a scaredy cat kid (I was terrified of the cat in Cinderella for an unknown reason as a toddler) and I think that I found ways to deal with that anxiety though community. For me horror is a way to interact with people while vulnerable I think.
Was the audiodrama the Magnus archives?
@@freazeezy it was in fact. I love TMA but I should not have been listening to it at 3am alone in a big house
As a fellow scaredy cat, I was afraid of looking up at the sky as a kid not bc I thought it would fall on me but since space was so vast and seemed like it never ended. Very easily disturbed lol I also prefer indirectly consuming horror stuff with let's plays and video essays! I cover the screen or flip my phone over if it's too scary, I find the petscop mascot creepy so those videos are audio only experiences
I've loved horror in every medium I could get my hands on it since I was a child. Everything I'd ever known growing up was fraught with uncertainty, anxiety, a fear for my well being. I experienced so much that validated these feelings that my first horror experience, Child's Play at 6, allowed me channel my fears into something impossible to experience then turn it off.
I made myself boil it down and reflect on why this was a turning point for me. I've come up with I was able to remove the threat by single action. It was exhilarating to be in control like that. Close the book, turn off the device. When video games cane into my life I was able to even destroy/resolve/pacify the evil. Furthering that, if something happened to me I could just start over. I could get better without consequence except time.
My appreciation has grown as I've aged and my views changed, but I still find myself applying that sense of accomplished control in my video game experiences.
Ramble over! Amazing video, and just in general such great work you are putting together! ❤️
as a girl, i feel like giving my own input as to why i love horror games: they inherently allow for more taboo topics to be explored, and since women are more susceptible to be victims of taboo topics (like violence, sexual abuse, bodyshaming, etc), horror media in general just resonates well with women. i think this is close to the empathy theory.
for the binding of isaac, women are susceptible to religious trauma due to the average christian society being so misogynistic and demonising, sexualising and shaming girls from a young age. the game explores religious trauma and criticises the bad apples of christianity in a cathartic way that lets women who suffer from religious trauma know theyre not alone.
as for dont starve, i might be biased since i love the burtonesque style so much, but also the game is very stressful, with much pain and suffering... just like real life, and it provides girls with a possibility - difficult one, but a possibility nevertheless - to overcome the challenges of life and prove that you do have the skill and right to be as good, successful, and be as comfortable as any man. also, webber is just the cutest!
for resident evil, i dont know, i just like cool worldbuilding and leon kennedy's charisma, but there still is the general "woman life suffering, horror game suffering, horror game resonate with woman" appeal to it.
i also wanna mention the specific aspect that women tend to struggle a lot with their bodies, considering how strict and unrealistic beauty standards are for women, how harshly they are enforced, how sexualised women's bodies are, and how shamed women are for the non-sexualised aspects of their bodies (which i believe is even worse for trans women, but i dont know for sure). as such, body horror has an appeal to women, as it visually represents the horror of having a body as a woman, of being powerless over your own appearance to a point where it's sickening. it resonates hard with me, at least.
overall, i just believe games with suffering and taboo topics hit closer to home for people who are at an inherently higher risk of suffering than others. speaking of, are there any studies made on how popular horror is with other marginalised groups? disabled people? lgbtq+ people?
i do think this is different for every woman though! these are just my experience, and i dont believe any of the theories in this video nor mine are universal.
yes!!! thank you for explaining this so well!
wow I haven't considered Women's apparent love for gothic, supernatural and religious parody media as a relation to real life religion
It's perhaps hard to see it as an outsider but what you say it's true specially on christian/catholic religions women are often seen as more sacred than men and thus giving them more responsibility and in consequence more reasons for anxiety while at the same time those religions tend to sexualize women on a weird way that doesn't apply to men, christian paintings can often portrait naked women while men rarely if ever appear naked not to mention feminine chastity is also more of a frequent topic, none of that is that crazy on itself but if we add up everything it can be understandable that some girls can develop religious trauma specially if exposed to such topics at young ages.
Level with me, Leon is a stud muffin.
All of that applies to men too, that's the reason why most horror games are developed by men as well, including the psychological ones... Religious bigots shame men's sexuality as well, and men tend to face violence from a younger age than women, to the point where we live less on average than women because we are murdered far more often, specially in public places, and sexual abuse and bodyshaming it's taboo for men because we are not expected to talk about it, we always swallow up the traumatic sexual experiences we had or how bad we feel about our bodies because opening up about such things makes us "weak," so we just accept it and try to push forward with life regardless. This is also why horror games appeal a lot to introverted men like myself, to the point where it becomes a safe space, since it allows us to explore what we know lingers deep in the backs of our mind, but we always tried to avoid reflecting upon.
@@Punkqurupeco You are pretty ignorant of art if you think that painting naked women it's the same as sexualizing them.
This is the question I didn't knew I wanted to know the answer to.
I am amazed with the level of maturity and sensitivity you exhibit when talking about these subjects. This is still a hard subject for many people (particularly gamers) to talk about without immediately seething or being defensive.
Also you nailed it with the thumbnail.
The vocal fry thing blows me away. I only recently heard the term and how some people are weirdly vocal about how they don't like it. But my whole life I have loved it. I find it very attractive to have more texture, for lack of a better word, in ones speech. I'm glad I learned the word so I can describe it, but annoyed that others are being actively hateful towards it. Vocal fries are very distinctive and I love the individuality of it. I hope people don't start hiding it in the future.
Personally I absolutely hate it. I find it incredibly irritating and as if someone is severely lacking in their ability to control their voice.
@@smergthedargon8974 How sad.
This channel is getting a ton of mileage out of SiIvaGunner rips and I absolutely love it
i'm going to hear flintstones in the background at some point aren't i
what does this mean
@@nirvanaheights SiIvaGunner is a channel that uploads high quality rips of video game music; these rips are frequently used as the primary source of background music for Moon Channel's videos.
I'm trans and OCD, I don't know if my opinion is desired here but;
for me horror has very little to do with overcoming, or confronting anything at all. This world is not accommodating, kind, or considerate to the things I feel and experience. I am dismissed at every turn, whether its about my choice in presentation or struggles with mental health, every interaction feels like a war to prove myself. Horror feels quite literally like the only place where i can be comfortable and earnest, where i can see other people like me deal with the things i have to go through. Horror makes me feel like I'm not alone. It feels like home, warm and safe and all.
Well, you're 100% valid in who you are, and it's no one else's business who you are, how you present, nor how you live your life! You're as important as anyone else, and the people who waste their lives trying to hate you - someone they liekely don't know AT ALL - can waste their lives, while you achieve what makes you feel happy in your own skin. Life is short - enjoy it while you've got it, and don't let anyone else put a damper on that for you. It's not their life - it's yours.
thank you for making this video! as a female watcher i've always enjoyed the way you tackle feminist topics with grace, tact, and rationality, and i do feel that you make a special effort to not dismiss womens' (or anyone's) pov in your videos.
i think people often don't acknowledge that the historical underrepresenation of women in media has both forced women to be more adept at empathizing with male characters and profited off the tendency of women to be more readily empathetic than men. before there was any movement to intentionally increase women's representation in mainstream media, if women wanted to feel represented they would often have to empathize with male characters; on the other hand, instances were few and far between where men would be in some way forced to empathize with a female protagonist. Men probably wouldn't have even been expected to engage with media with a female protagonist (exceptions obv exist) because people might assume that would mean the story was made for women. in this way i don't think it's strange at all that women would still find their fears and anxieties validated by media that have male protagonists (eg silent hill 2). in fact i think it is very strange that anyone would think "oh that's a game with a male protagonist who has male problems, why would women see themselves in that?" and anyone who interprets the media they consume in such a strict and literal fashion may be missing out on a lot of what they could be learning from these stories.
i do say all this as a cis hetero woman who has a picture of bill gates drinking boba tea as my pfp. in a similar vein i've always liked how in these videos you use a picture of maya fey to represent yourself. i've assumed that you just chose her because you like the character and think she's cool. i think it speaks a lot to your empathy toward women that you feel comfortable using a female-presenting sprite to voice your genuine emotions and opinions and it's something i appreciate about this channel. i just don't see a lot of men doing that for some reason, and i do suspect that reason has something to do with less men being willing to put themselves in women's shoes in that way.
personally, i think my enjoyment of horror stories doesn't have to do with my anxieties related specifically to the female experience, but more to the human experience. i am drawn to horror-themed things that creep me out because they make me confront my own mortality and status as a fleshy, fragile little creature scurrying across the earth's surface. that's just a general human anxiety that everyone confronts in their own ways, but i'm suggesting that women are more likely to confront that existential anxiety through horror games and men have other ways of dissecting their existential anxiety, possibly because women more readily empathize with the characters in the horror games so it is uniquely effective for women to this end. of course there are horror games that do explicitly deal with women's issues (eg american mcgee's alice) and i really like the way they engage with those non-existential anxieties as well. i also just like the dopamine from scaring myself. these opinions are, of course, mine alone and people are free to choose any aspects of these games to enjoy for themselves; this comment is all just one woman's experience.
thanks again for the wonderful video! looking forward to the next one!
If Moon Channel has 100,000 fans, I am one of them. If Moon Channel has 100 fans, I am one of them. If Moon Channel has a single fan, it's me. If Moon Channel has no fans on Earth, it's because I have died and reincarnated as a moon. If the world is against Moon Channel, I am against the world.
🤝
super hot take pre-watch as one of the ladies: existing as a woman is very horror coded in the not-war/explodey kinda way so yeah
post-watch edit: the therapy factor definitely plays a role, I would also add (in the broader context of horror anything) that 1) the excessive, dramatic, destructive horror plotlines, filled with "*ugly* passions" as they are, often provide the kind of cathartic scenarios that would be most taboo to actually explore for Women Living In A Society, 2) horror often deals with morally gray casts of characters (MCs included) and unanswerable mysteries surrounding the origins of evil that better align with the complexity of the emotional landscape and dynamics women (and I'd argue other marginalised/oppressed/otherised groups particularly of the gender & sexuality category) have to navigate on a daily basis, to different degrees and at varying levels of awareness per individual ofc
btw godspeed to ms kpoppie sister, not to be an irredeemable stan but I hope she likes SHINee ☆
p.s. there are even more reasons to explore when it comes to horror-themed, thriller/mystery-focused romance or coming of age stories! femininity is fundamentally monstrous as a deviation from the assumed default i.e. masculine state, but monsters want to live free and be loved too~
p.p.s. FUCK MY TINY SCREEN I COULDN'T SEE THE WIKI SCREENSHOT, HELLO AQUA BLOODED COMRADE I HOPE YOU HAVE ALL THE NICE DAYS AND YOU SEE SHINEE LIVE SOON IF YOU SO WISH 💎
for me, a trans woman, I find horror games to often be too cruel and heavy on the gore, tho I still like watching streams of them sometimes. I think i've just kinda been traumatized by some bad relationships and depressive episodes so nowdays i feel less wanting to experience it again, and i've always felt pretty empathetic and so seeing people suffer makes me feel disgusting.
on the case of true crime, I like them a lot when the case is solved at least somewhat, but the unsolved cases just make me feel so uncomfortable, especially in the cases where women are the victims.
But I also realize that growing up, I was one of those guys who mocked girls for their interests, I think in large part because I felt they had the "freedom" of liking things they liked, while I was forced to be a boy and like boy things, while the girls would also tell they don't want to do things with me because I was a boy. I've also even after coming out and presenting as a woman had only a few bad experiences in real life, and constantly have insecurity and fear of cis women finding me gross or creepy, so i guess my insecurities are kinda the opposite of how a lot of girls and women feel
I have a love/hate relationship with horror. I don't watch many films in the genre because my brain likes to get stuck in panic-mode because my phobia is all over the place in those films, and jump cuts don't give me time to prepare for someone to suddenly get stabbed/impaled/poked-by-sharp-things. I also don't particularly like feeling scared or anxious, mostly because I get overwhelmed quickly.
That said, animated horror is generally easier for me to handle, so films like Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust and the like are things I enjoy. I don't always play the horror games I'm interested in like Resident Evil because I'm not very good under pressure, but the narrative and atmosphere always pull me in, so I do a lot of watching let's play videos. I'm fascinated by the horror elements in games/books/shows like Devil May Cry, Hell's Paradise, and Hellsing, and there's a reason why Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda game. Rumiko Takahashi handles horror in some of my favorite ways (and is also a woman very much drawn by the genre - highly recommend reading about how she got into the manga industry).
I think it's mostly that I enjoy watching characters have to struggle through something that is fantastical enough that it's just outside of my ability to relate too closely to be horrified rather than entertained, but also because some of those elements of horror are just artistically more interesting to me than anything else.
There's definitely an element of empathy that I can agree with, but I can't say I've ever thought about how I feel as a mostly woman-identifing female until watching this video, and I'm currently in the "I just think they're neat" category. What I'm definitely NOT feeling is a want to be cuddled while indulging in the genre (though I'm also aro-ace, which might contribute to that, lol).
I feel totally the same with basically every point you made! I also prefer fantastical or dramatic media over slice of life for I think similar escapism reasons. Though I actually don't mind slice of life or realism in video games, I guess the game aspect detachs it from my reality/lived experience enough compared to a movie or tv show.
Not that long ago I've stumbled on a statement about TTRPGs that while in the West D&D is the most popular (with a huge lead) game system (it is best suited and primarily used for epic fantasy adventures) and the majority of players are male (something like 60/40 ratio), in Japan the most popular TTRPG is Call of Cthulhu (a game system that is primarily used for horror/mystery games) and the majority of the playerbase is female.
Sadly I have no idea if this statement is true in that second half, but I hope someone can find statistics on that
That's very, very interesting: thank you for sharing, Mary!
I have a vague idea for a video on women and Baldur's Gate 3 that I've been slowly formulating, and some insight into the Japanese TTRPG community might be exactly the glue I need for that idea.
Maybe the next time I am in Japan, I will ask around about Call of Cthulhu TTRPG and see if I can learn anything fun for the video!
Call of Cthulhu seems generally more popular in East Asia in general.
I think it has something to do with DnD's game systems not being particularly engaging when the country's major exposure to the game type started with video games, and like... video games are just more fun. Less scheduling issues too LOL
You can't really engage with CoC as well in a video game context, meanwhile.
It may also be telling that one of the biggest franchises in TTRPGs is World/Chronicles of Darkness which is very much about horror. And while it's got plenty of edgelords, it's also where I've seen a ton of women creators and players in what feels like a far greater proportion than D&D gets. (The balance for D&D has shifted significantly in the last several years post-Critical Role, so I'm not sure my feeling still applies today.)
Of all the DnD players I've met/played iwth/seen online...the overwhelming majority are female! What an odd statistic - I'd even venture to say that it's probably more 50/50 these days with the crescendo-ing popularity of TTRPGs.
i see a moon video. i watch a moon video.
I like intelligent supernatural in all its forms, because it always *seems* like the protagonist is going crazy and mostly people treat them as crazy - but they are not. There is an explanation and even further: a way to think your way out of the situation. If you just research and force your brain into action hard enough, then you can solve the problem, you can be vindicated by your environment and ultimately, you can win against the evil.
As someone who grew up running from one doctor to the next, insisting that something was wrong with my health and being told to stop being a dramatic teenager - that is powerful. As someone who kept sliding and once she finally got doctors to listen, as it was a bit late for puberty, got told, it was in my head and there is nothing you can do - that is powerful. As someone who get to the point of being bed bound, until a specialist finally went through options other than pills, only to spend years working on getting better and undoing the negligence of generations of male doctors, who declared you a dramatic female girl - that is powerful.
Obviously my experience is extreme, but not being taken seriously when you know something is wrong, is very common. Being declared crazy or told it is in your head. Being told it is your hormones and you are just making a fuss. Also, being reliant on these very people for help, while being endlessly gaslit by them like a bizarre toxic relationship, can be debilitating - because you simply don’t have the medical knowledge needed, to tackle the situation yourself, thus the dependency. The notion that actually with some research in an ancient demon book, some determined interviewing of oddly behaved people on an island and a lot of puzzling together of pieces, you can control your destiny and defeat what is gnawing at your mind, body and soul, is incredibly empowering.
TL;DR: I believe the “woman are just crazy and don’t know themselves as well as male authority figures do - especially medical” aspect also has a play in it.
Funny enough, my partner is very much into horror games. Well, not playing them, she mostly watches let's plays of creators she likes. Or when I do my best to get through one :p
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the production quality of your channel is insane. It's amazing that you can present all of this frighteningly well-researched information in such a neutral, unbiased way, and make your videos entertaining to boot. And that's not to mention your actions towards charity, too. This platform, and the world, needs more people like you. Thanks, Moony.
Beautiful thumbnail
Pleasantly surprised at the civility, kindness, and self-reflection in the comments. Usually, when women are brought up for analytical purposes on UA-cam, there's a half and half of the people sharing their experiences and people insulting women and then acting surprised or upset when they're called misogynistic. There's definitely some of the latter, but they're getting drowned out by the former. That either shows signs of good moderation or effective speaking and audience curation.
maybe the comments are moderated.
One thing I always love about your documentaries is how the things you say usually start with things applicable to mediums or concepts that don't have much to do with video games, but then you slowly shift the focus into something about video games.
Love that thumbnail, and that intro cutting Yoshi’s island music into Vampire Killer.
7:32 - the giggle I got out of seeing KH2 mer-boy Sora as the example footage for "Are you there god it's me Margaret" (Then it made sense when "The Little Mermaid" appeared next) I tell YOU, that was a highlight of my day!
So as a trans woman, I know my experience differs from that of cis women, but I do think your therapy idea has some merit. I’ve found games (and other media) that deal with body horror specifically are useful to help process the body horror experience that was my going through male puberty, for example.
My little sisters love horror games and so i buy them for them and then watch as they play. I dont really like horror games in any way (I'm a crier and screamer lol) but i love spending time with my siblings. I had the same realization as you in my late teens, that i had been scoffing at their interests for no reason and i try my best nowadays to encourage them! Great video ❤
man, every now and then I forget just how absolutely awesome moonie is
I often call video games "a laboratory for the emotions," because they can bring up very strong emotions in a very safe context, where you can always press pause or turn off the screen.
I used that to overcome some anger issues by playing rage games and then practicing reining in my emotions.
The combination of being an active participant with a desire to succeed along with the low stakes and safety can make for some powerful therapy for sure.
One game series that immediately came to mind is American McGee's Alice and Alice: Madness Returns.
This was a very interesting watch. My wife is a big time horror lover, I look forward to seeing what she has to say about the topic. Her favourite games are Binding of Isaac, Dead by Daylight, and Don't Starve so I think she got caught in 4k here.
As a woman and a fan of video games (personally love shooters but i’ve also played a lot of horror games) i have to thank you for doing your research and not simply feeling satisfied with a couple quick answers from old studies, and instead diving deep yourself to understand! Right in the beginning of the video I wondered why it was that my sister, my mum, my aunts and cousins were all so much into horror movies, and I did come to the same thought you did. As a woman that is also why I like horror games, because I get to face the monsters and even though I am scared I feel rewarded by managing to get out of the scary situations and feel a certain rush when i manage to confront that fear :)
This is super interesting for me, as a woman that doesn't click at all with horror film or books, while greatly enjoying horror games.
The interactivity is definitely a huge part of it, and I have anxiety as well as a lot of trauma that feels relevant to the genre (i.e. holding a door shut while a danger to me tries to get in, making a run for it when the "monster" seems agitated, etc).
I've never thought a lot about it, but I do think that horror represents a kind of catharsis for me, where I'm capable of getting away, or of beating the monster. I also think it helps me process certain feelings, by experiencing that intense fear in a safe way.
I don't often think of this in terms of being a woman, but I will say that it's very unlikely that I would have faced the trauma I did as a boy rather than a girl.
Super interesting stuff as always!
I love thumbnails like this
What a wonderfully comforting video :) As a woman that loves horror games but can't sit through a single horror movie, I think the sense of control as well as the greater distance from reality/less total immersion is what allows me to be able to participate with horror video games as a medium. Watching a horror movie is too immersive for me, too close to experiencing something in real life or a lucid dream (which I hate and have lots of), but I love horror themes, motifs, and imagery - they always have really interesting storylines that you wouldn't find anywhere else!
I’m a girl and just wanted to say I feel so safe here. Thank you for validating women’s experiences and interests especially as a man.
but I did want to confirm, I love horror!! and horror games. perhaps a bit niche but I was hoping you’d mention OMORI, a psychological horror game (which is my absolute favorite). id love to hear your thoughts on that. and if you’ve never played it….. please trust me and go in blind- you don’t want to ruin anything for yourself. ❤
Notification gang
Edit for after watching:
I think your line of thinking has merit and could really benefit from dedicated research. I think it stinks that the field of psychology is underfunded in the US so it's not likely that it'll get picked up easily. Though, my opinion on the matter shouldn't count for nearly as much as like you I am a straight male living in the US.
P.S. Don't change the thumbnail, it's perfect the way it is! ❤
I hope that you will enjoy the video, Ash! Thank you for your incredible support, as always!
As a woman who loves horror video games, I showed this video to my mom, who is a fan of horror movies and tv series, and who introduced me to horror at a young age. We both agree with every point you’ve discussed and I thank you for making such a thoughtful video! The thumbnail definitely caught my eye :)
the part about society's treatment of girls is so spot on. I grew up with two older brothers who looked down on ALL of my hobbies and it got to the point that I would reject anything "girly" or on trend for girls (like twilight, hannah montana etc) so I wouldnt experience the bullying and shame they inflicted on me. It made me feel like such an outsider not only in my family but among my female friends who were getting into makeup and fashion. It went on for years and caused a lot of damage to my mental health and caused a lot of insecurities and anxieties that wouldnt be around if my brothers just respected my interests. On that note, It felt comforting to me to hear how you regret the way you handled your sister's interests. I always wondered if men reflect on the ways they treat women's feelings so it was nice to see a man express his own regret to something that I experienced way too much of.
I have a younger brother who did the same thing.
In my personal experience, I play horror video games for primary 2 reasons. I play single player horror games because they have compelling storytelling, dialogue, and gameplay/ I want to solve the mystery, kick butt, and help the cast. Or in multiplayer games without heavy plot, because it’s fun to feel an adrenaline rush and explore, craft, and survive together.
I personally used to avoid horror games, but my older sister and bf love them, so I always got dragged along. At some point I grew from being physically frozen from fear and unable to react when things got scary to being able to be the one to jump in and save the day. I feel like it’s helped me a lot irl to not freeze up and instead to confront sources of fear and/or anxiety.
The appeal could also come from character design as well. In horror, the main characters tend to look more like regular people rather than the super idealized characters you'll see in the action genre.
I think a major appeal is the ability to fight back against things we can't fight in real life like getting stalked and attacked by something.
That comentary about Phoenix not really suporting Maya and Pearl about their hobbies like BTS or Punk Rock really hit me even though i don't have sisters
this thumbnail might be your best one yet
As a disable women that deal with abuse from work, family, and creepy men at work and dealing with the reality that no one cares enough to hear me, and have others including family try to sweep any pain or uncomfortable situations I've gone through under the rug. Alot of us deal with constant pressures growing up. "I have to be this way to be considering a woman's worth anyones time." People get mad at me for not looking pretty for them, as if I only exist to please them. To be honest, it hurts, like a lot. I'm my own person, I don't give into social pressure to be anything other want me to be. But there's consequences of isolation, and I feel them a lot. Watching this video and hearing you talk about your siblings put a tear to my eye and really inspired me in a way where I feel kind of seen. I'm not sure if I'm the only one. But I appreciate this video, thank you.
Trans woman here. I've always delved into horror, even as a child. I think something that's worth noting further for this analysis is the popularity of vicarious horror enjoyment. That was how I often enjoyed it as a child, and many of the girls I work with watch markiplier like I did when I was their age.
For me, I think horror offered a very unique kind of escapism. As a young girl a part of me knew something was wrong, and that the world was unfair. So seeing horror content that could be picked apart in hour and a half long youtube Fnaf Lore Explained videos really went a long way towards scratching that itch of wanting that feeling of wrongness explained. The same itch was scratched by creepypastas, and the SCP wiki, I think.
Love the content as always Moon, and I am excited to see more.
I absolutely love the horror genre and when I saw your video about girl games this was funnily enough something I thought of. Horror media, has been a source of comfort for me for a long time and this video captures a lot of my feelings towards it. A few things I can add from my perspective would be that a lot of horror media I enjoy does not heavily feature topics I was told as a girl I *had* to care about just bc I am a woman. Love stories/triangles and petty drama (often pitting women against each other in some kind of contest), which were featured in a lot of YA media I interacted with as a teen, can still occur in horror, but they mostly take a backseat. These things aren't necessarily bad, but its frustrating to constantly be told they are all your existence comes down to. Additonally, a lot of horror movies feature a so-called final-girl which gave me a character to relate to, often in a way where they weren't always victims. On top of that, a lot of horror media lets me interact with it by letting me come up with theories and predictions about the plot/mysteries which I think is enjoyable. I am a sucker for lovecraftian horror and tbh just scary stuff in general, so I dont think my enjoyment is purely connected to my gender either.
There are definitely exceptions to all of these, and they are just my personal experience, but I thought I'd share them.
Once again, Moonie is a gem. Hands down my favorite channel.
As a trans gal, it was super difficult to engage with horror pre-transitioning. I didnt find the emotional distress to be cathertic, but rather, just amplified my already poor emotional state.
However, now that im on hormones, ove bene able to handle, and genuinely enjoy, horror. Im still very antsy with the horror genre, but the idea of overcoming overwhelming odds despite extreme emotional distress resonates with me deeply.
Anyways, thank you Moonie for being as empathetic as you are analytical!
6:42 lmao that's a great "ring" parody, I'd pay to see "r3: the red ring of death "
What the heck is this thumbnail, moony is becoming an art channel
This is a crazy claim I’ve never thought about and I can’t wait to find out more about it lol
I'm aroace and prefer to consume media alone. The snuggle theory ain't it.
I deleted a bunch here about the empathetic theory, because I agree but it misses the point. Good horror is also escapist. It's just more authentic at the same time, because it's grounded in the fact that existence is awful.
This is why I like the psychological or scifi stuff, but not gore or serial killer stories. We already have murder and blood at home. Go watch some exploitative true crime trash if you want that. I want to spend the next two hours in a world where cursed VHS tapes exist, or where there are interesting mysteries to solve such as where all the vanished celestial bodies went. There are enough kidnapped women IRL; it's not entertainment to pretend that one more exists.
Moony, this is your best thumbnail yet! 👍